Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 681538 times)

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6650 on: January 08, 2021, 07:11:16 AM »
Quote
If you take out the POV completely, you end up with "People entered the capitol while being ordered not to do it. They destroyed property. One was shot."
It's an accurate description, but it does not tell you what happened, what it was about.

You could simply write - without excessive editorialising:

Hundreds of protestors, some armed with what were later found to be IEDs and others carrying backpacks with unknown contents, overcame police by sheer numbers and entered the nation's Capitol. The protestors had earlier set up camp on the mall. Some of them had erected a gallows. They later were heard shouting for Mike Pence to be found and brought before them.

In an interior corridor, a stand-off arose between protestors - who were captured on video footage chanting slogans echoing President Trump's own incitements from days earlier - and Capitol police, the latter armed with pistols and carbines. One woman attempted to climb through a window and was shot, once. In the haphazard scenes that followed, no other shots were fired and police were seen tending to the stricken woman.


I'm no journalism major so maybe my writing is clunky and not up to the exemplary standards of Guardian journalism (hahaha) but I would prefer more description and facts and less commentary. The above description only took a couple of minutes for me to cobble together from pictures and videos so I'm sure the Guardian blogger could have tried a little harder to provide some colour and movement from facts.

You want to convey that the mob was violent and frenetic? Paint the picture with words.

You want to convey Trump's dawdling and deep hypocrisy? Excerpt his speeches!

It ain't hard. Show, don't tell. I'm not a professional writer and have no formal training in writing - but I reckon I could do a better job than some of these journos.

Interesting how your police are armed, but no mention of the rioters being armed with lead pipes and tear gas...

And guns.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6651 on: January 08, 2021, 07:27:24 AM »
Quote
If you take out the POV completely, you end up with "People entered the capitol while being ordered not to do it. They destroyed property. One was shot."
It's an accurate description, but it does not tell you what happened, what it was about.

You could simply write - without excessive editorialising:

Hundreds of protestors, some armed with what were later found to be IEDs and others carrying backpacks with unknown contents, overcame police by sheer numbers and entered the nation's Capitol. The protestors had earlier set up camp on the mall. Some of them had erected a gallows. They later were heard shouting for Mike Pence to be found and brought before them.

In an interior corridor, a stand-off arose between protestors - who were captured on video footage chanting slogans echoing President Trump's own incitements from days earlier - and Capitol police, the latter armed with pistols and carbines. One woman attempted to climb through a window and was shot, once. In the haphazard scenes that followed, no other shots were fired and police were seen tending to the stricken woman.


I'm no journalism major so maybe my writing is clunky and not up to the exemplary standards of Guardian journalism (hahaha) but I would prefer more description and facts and less commentary. The above description only took a couple of minutes for me to cobble together from pictures and videos so I'm sure the Guardian blogger could have tried a little harder to provide some colour and movement from facts.

You want to convey that the mob was violent and frenetic? Paint the picture with words.

You want to convey Trump's dawdling and deep hypocrisy? Excerpt his speeches!

It ain't hard. Show, don't tell. I'm not a professional writer and have no formal training in writing - but I reckon I could do a better job than some of these journos.

Interesting how your police are armed, but no mention of the rioters being armed with lead pipes and tear gas...

And guns.

And molotov cocktails

frugalnacho

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6652 on: January 08, 2021, 07:31:34 AM »
Whatever happens to Trump's presidency by January 20 will happen, but sadly the people involved in this attack and their supporters aren't going away anytime soon.

How does America prevent such political violence from happening again?

I rarely think violence is the answer, but it is in this case.  The punishment for a failed coup or a failed revolution should be having your head cut off.  Not figuratively, but literally. The fact that the GOP is so inept and incompetent shouldn't be an excuse for leniency.  Trump obviously, but all his top level sycophants that stood by an enabled him as well.  I realize that is a bit extreme, but so is this situation, and this isn't a situation that just accidentally happened.

Bloop Bloop Reloaded

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6653 on: January 08, 2021, 07:38:31 AM »
Quote
You said yourself that it was a blog, which is usually maintained by a news org to keep on top of breaking news in real time. The standards for that sort of writing and formal journalism are different. That seems obvious to me, at least, as a professional editor who does have to apply different styles and standards to different types of writing intended for different purposes.

It wasn't in real time as such as the video had been produced some hours ago, before the blog post. In any event, if I as a layperson can scrounge up those two paragraphs in literally 3 minutes (plus 2-3 minutes of viewing footage and photos), I would expect a paid blogger to do rather a better / higher standard job. No?

Typos might pop up from place to place on a blog and the facts might not be 100% checkable - like how I egregiously missed out on lead pipes, molotov cocktails etc - but I still expect basic journalistic integrity, and a knowledge of "show, don't tell".

BussoV6

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6654 on: January 08, 2021, 07:52:22 AM »
Why did the Arizonan riot leader wearing horns and fur have a big black dick tattooed on the side of his stomach?

bbqbonelesswing

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6655 on: January 08, 2021, 07:55:29 AM »
Why did the Arizonan riot leader wearing horns and fur have a big black dick tattooed on the side of his stomach?

He's a shaman, ok? You wouldn't understand.

John Galt incarnate!

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6656 on: January 08, 2021, 07:56:58 AM »
Early this morning, as I slipped from the grip of Morpheus, I think I heard that Trump revoked Pence's security pass which allows him entry to the White House, another of many  instances of Trump's  obtuseness regarding the fact that high officials take an oath to support and defend the Constitution and not one of  fealty to him.

Trump is an odious   man-child whose   self-centered petulance knows no bounds.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6657 on: January 08, 2021, 08:00:45 AM »
I think Pence finally (yes, I'm using that word for emphasis) understands the Faustian bargain he made to gain this national audience. One reaps what one sows.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2021, 09:24:16 AM by OtherJen »

MudPuppy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6658 on: January 08, 2021, 08:01:13 AM »
Why did the Arizonan riot leader wearing horns and fur have a big black dick tattooed on the side of his stomach?

He's a shaman, ok? You wouldn't understand.

Heís looking for that BDE

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6659 on: January 08, 2021, 08:23:11 AM »
Early this morning, as I slipped from the grip of Morpheus, I think I heard that Trump revoked Pence's security pass which allows him entry to the White House, another of many  instances of Trump's  obtuseness regarding the fact that high officials take an oath to support and defend the Constitution and not one of  fealty to him.

Trump is an odious   man-child whose   self-centered petulance knows no bounds.

He barred Pence's chief of staff from the White House.

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6660 on: January 08, 2021, 08:26:10 AM »
Trump outrage today: Trump has conceded and is calling for healing and unity.

At first I ignored this because I assumed it was sarcasm

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/video/president-trump-concedes-condemns-supporters-rioted-75122489

It has the air of one of those videos that hostages are sometimes forced to make by their captors. I wonder who wrote the words for him.

Trump has a particular cadence to his speeches and stops to make specific facial and hand gestures. Did this speech strike anyone as odd in that regard? I kept wondering if he was suffering from some kind of palsy. He had to tilt his head like an owl to get some of the words out.

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6661 on: January 08, 2021, 08:31:23 AM »
It has the air of one of those videos that hostages are sometimes forced to make by their captors. I wonder who wrote the words for him.

Trump has a particular cadence to his speeches and stops to make specific facial and hand gestures. Did this speech strike anyone as odd in that regard? I kept wondering if he was suffering from some kind of palsy. He had to tilt his head like an owl to get some of the words out.

It strikes you as odd because this is the only speech I've ever seen Trump make where he purely read from the teleprompter and didn't interject his own color commentary. Some of his lawyers must have sat him down and had a looong talk about how much legal trouble he could be in for inciting a terrorist insurrection against the government of the USA.

JLee

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6662 on: January 08, 2021, 08:40:26 AM »
Quote
You said yourself that it was a blog, which is usually maintained by a news org to keep on top of breaking news in real time. The standards for that sort of writing and formal journalism are different. That seems obvious to me, at least, as a professional editor who does have to apply different styles and standards to different types of writing intended for different purposes.

It wasn't in real time as such as the video had been produced some hours ago, before the blog post. In any event, if I as a layperson can scrounge up those two paragraphs in literally 3 minutes (plus 2-3 minutes of viewing footage and photos), I would expect a paid blogger to do rather a better / higher standard job. No?

Typos might pop up from place to place on a blog and the facts might not be 100% checkable - like how I egregiously missed out on lead pipes, molotov cocktails etc - but I still expect basic journalistic integrity, and a knowledge of "show, don't tell".

You claim to expect basic journalistic integrity and your example of a breach of said integrity is describing a scene where five people were killed as a "violent mob" instead of just a "mob", yet you yourself left out the fact they had molotovs when you wrote your example.

The irony is truly spectacular.

EvenSteven

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6663 on: January 08, 2021, 08:46:32 AM »
Quote
You said yourself that it was a blog, which is usually maintained by a news org to keep on top of breaking news in real time. The standards for that sort of writing and formal journalism are different. That seems obvious to me, at least, as a professional editor who does have to apply different styles and standards to different types of writing intended for different purposes.

It wasn't in real time as such as the video had been produced some hours ago, before the blog post. In any event, if I as a layperson can scrounge up those two paragraphs in literally 3 minutes (plus 2-3 minutes of viewing footage and photos), I would expect a paid blogger to do rather a better / higher standard job. No?

Typos might pop up from place to place on a blog and the facts might not be 100% checkable - like how I egregiously missed out on lead pipes, molotov cocktails etc - but I still expect basic journalistic integrity, and a knowledge of "show, don't tell".

You claim to expect basic journalistic integrity and your example of a breach of said integrity is describing a scene where five people were killed as a "violent mob" instead of just a "mob", yet you yourself left out the fact they had molotovs when you wrote your example.

The irony is truly spectacular.

I think it is fitting. All these people ever really wanted was ethics in gaming journalism.

turketron

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6664 on: January 08, 2021, 08:46:57 AM »
It strikes you as odd because this is the only speech I've ever seen Trump make where he purely read from the teleprompter and didn't interject his own color commentary. Some of his lawyers must have sat him down and had a looong talk about how much legal trouble he could be in for inciting a terrorist insurrection against the government of the USA.
Yeah, it looked like a hostage video with someone just off-camera with a (metaphorical) gun to his head.

Omy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6665 on: January 08, 2021, 09:08:37 AM »
It strikes you as odd because this is the only speech I've ever seen Trump make where he purely read from the teleprompter and didn't interject his own color commentary. Some of his lawyers must have sat him down and had a looong talk about how much legal trouble he could be in for inciting a terrorist insurrection against the government of the USA.
Yeah, it looked like a hostage video with someone just off-camera with a (metaphorical) gun to his head.

It almost looks like a deep fake. Or it was badly edited. Or badly edited to make it look like a deep fake so his supporters could call it out as fake? Random speculation...I'm not trying to start a conspiracy theory.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6666 on: January 08, 2021, 09:10:34 AM »
It has the air of one of those videos that hostages are sometimes forced to make by their captors. I wonder who wrote the words for him.

Trump has a particular cadence to his speeches and stops to make specific facial and hand gestures. Did this speech strike anyone as odd in that regard? I kept wondering if he was suffering from some kind of palsy. He had to tilt his head like an owl to get some of the words out.

It strikes you as odd because this is the only speech I've ever seen Trump make where he purely read from the teleprompter and didn't interject his own color commentary. Some of his lawyers must have sat him down and had a looong talk about how much legal trouble he could be in for inciting a terrorist insurrection against the government of the USA.

This. He may finally (again! Itís a useful word in this context!) realize that he has stepped over the line of what even his yes-men will condone. As someone whose entire adult life has been enabled by yes-men, Iím sure that was frightening enough to get him to comply.

But they still didnít trust him to read it live.

(Edit: anyone else notice the cut to a different angle after the line about the election results being certified? Did they splice in the bit about the smooth, orderly, and seamless transition in place of yet another election fraud rant, or was someone getting creative with the camera angle? It is odd.)
« Last Edit: January 08, 2021, 09:15:50 AM by OtherJen »

ender

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6667 on: January 08, 2021, 09:19:20 AM »
It strikes you as odd because this is the only speech I've ever seen Trump make where he purely read from the teleprompter and didn't interject his own color commentary. Some of his lawyers must have sat him down and had a looong talk about how much legal trouble he could be in for inciting a terrorist insurrection against the government of the USA.
Yeah, it looked like a hostage video with someone just off-camera with a (metaphorical) gun to his head.

It almost looks like a deep fake. Or it was badly edited. Or badly edited to make it look like a deep fake so his supporters could call it out as fake? Random speculation...I'm not trying to start a conspiracy theory.

A deep fake posted to his twitter though?

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6668 on: January 08, 2021, 09:24:38 AM »
It almost looks like a deep fake. Or it was badly edited. Or badly edited to make it look like a deep fake so his supporters could call it out as fake? Random speculation...I'm not trying to start a conspiracy theory.

A deep fake posted to his twitter though?

Don't underestimate how stupid these people are. I've already seem Trumpers claim it was a deep-fake. Also it's apparently important that he said "peaceful transition to a new administration" not to a new president because clearly he's going to replace Pence as his VP with someone who's more patriotic and after he releases the Krakken he will still be in power, so obviously he's not conceding. I'm not making any of this up.

Kris

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6669 on: January 08, 2021, 09:47:26 AM »
It has the air of one of those videos that hostages are sometimes forced to make by their captors. I wonder who wrote the words for him.

Trump has a particular cadence to his speeches and stops to make specific facial and hand gestures. Did this speech strike anyone as odd in that regard? I kept wondering if he was suffering from some kind of palsy. He had to tilt his head like an owl to get some of the words out.

It strikes you as odd because this is the only speech I've ever seen Trump make where he purely read from the teleprompter and didn't interject his own color commentary. Some of his lawyers must have sat him down and had a looong talk about how much legal trouble he could be in for inciting a terrorist insurrection against the government of the USA.

This. He may finally (again! Itís a useful word in this context!) realize that he has stepped over the line of what even his yes-men will condone. As someone whose entire adult life has been enabled by yes-men, Iím sure that was frightening enough to get him to comply.

But they still didnít trust him to read it live.

(Edit: anyone else notice the cut to a different angle after the line about the election results being certified? Did they splice in the bit about the smooth, orderly, and seamless transition in place of yet another election fraud rant, or was someone getting creative with the camera angle? It is odd.)

Yep, I thought that, too. They couldn't get him not to go off script in one take, so they took a couple takes and edited it to remove the insane part(s).

sui generis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6670 on: January 08, 2021, 09:50:34 AM »
So I guess he announced he's not attending the inauguration. What a cry baby. Anyway, I've already seen several statements (speculation?) that it's either a signal to or because he knows that his followers will again commit atrocities. I assume everyone will be better prepared on Jan 20 then they chose to be on Jan 6.


OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6672 on: January 08, 2021, 09:58:50 AM »
So I guess he announced he's not attending the inauguration. What a cry baby. Anyway, I've already seen several statements (speculation?) that it's either a signal to or because he knows that his followers will again commit atrocities. I assume everyone will be better prepared on Jan 20 then they chose to be on Jan 6.

His cult followers are already planning for another "event" on the 19th, from what I've read.

He is such a spoiled brat. And after the Obamas were far more gracious to him than he deserved at his own inauguration. He really does make himself look worse and worse each day.

dividendman

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6673 on: January 08, 2021, 10:00:25 AM »
My (re)FIRE date is approaching in a few weeks and Trump still has a couple of weeks.... this feels like the longest few weeks of my life.

frugalnacho

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6674 on: January 08, 2021, 10:10:22 AM »
I don't understand what the hold up on the impeachment is.  They should have began impeachment vote at 4AM when they finally concluded the count.  Failing that, why aren't they impeaching him right now? What is more important than impeaching him this very minute?

dividendman

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6675 on: January 08, 2021, 10:19:49 AM »
I don't understand what the hold up on the impeachment is.  They should have began impeachment vote at 4AM when they finally concluded the count.  Failing that, why aren't they impeaching him right now? What is more important than impeaching him this very minute?

While I think they should, I'm sure the political reality of not having 67 senators in favor is still there. Also, with a Senate trial that will take days, especially if republicans want to grandstand, there may not even be a vote by the time Trump's term is up.

The 25th amendment is instantaneous, but I don't think Pence will do that either.

I think the US attorney's and state attorney's are the best people to handle Trump in the coming weeks.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6676 on: January 08, 2021, 10:29:29 AM »
Whatever happens to Trump's presidency by January 20 will happen, but sadly the people involved in this attack and their supporters aren't going away anytime soon.

How does America prevent such political violence from happening again?

I rarely think violence is the answer, but it is in this case.  The punishment for a failed coup or a failed revolution should be having your head cut off.  Not figuratively, but literally. The fact that the GOP is so inept and incompetent shouldn't be an excuse for leniency.  Trump obviously, but all his top level sycophants that stood by an enabled him as well.  I realize that is a bit extreme, but so is this situation, and this isn't a situation that just accidentally happened.

A bit extreme....um....no.....just no. Everything about what happened at DC was horrific. Support jail time for Trump, for the people who rioted in DC, etc. fine. Support that the woman who was killed by authorities who was in the act of trying to break in is justified homicide, sure. But no, asinine statements about beheadings should not be made. To support this for sure but even to say it in jest (if that is what it was) is only a good thing if your goal is the further collapse of our country.

dignam

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6677 on: January 08, 2021, 10:32:25 AM »
I don't understand what the hold up on the impeachment is.  They should have began impeachment vote at 4AM when they finally concluded the count.  Failing that, why aren't they impeaching him right now? What is more important than impeaching him this very minute?

There is the threat that doing this could cause even more unrest.  Don't get me wrong I would love to see that or the 25th evoked, but I'm not sure if that's what is best considering his days are numbered.

sui generis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6678 on: January 08, 2021, 10:34:28 AM »
I don't understand what the hold up on the impeachment is.  They should have began impeachment vote at 4AM when they finally concluded the count.  Failing that, why aren't they impeaching him right now? What is more important than impeaching him this very minute?

While I think they should, I'm sure the political reality of not having 67 senators in favor is still there. Also, with a Senate trial that will take days, especially if republicans want to grandstand, there may not even be a vote by the time Trump's term is up.

The 25th amendment is instantaneous, but I don't think Pence will do that either.

I think the US attorney's and state attorney's are the best people to handle Trump in the coming weeks.

George Conway just tweeted something about having 67 votes to convict. I don't follow him closely, but I was not under the impression that he throws out blatantly false or exaggerated statements like this. Still, I have a hard time believing it is even possibly true.

bbqbonelesswing

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6679 on: January 08, 2021, 10:35:12 AM »
https://theweek.com/speedreads/959671/maryland-governor-said-repeatedly-denied-authorization-send-national-guard-dc

Quote
Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan (R) said Thursday that after receiving a request for help from the District of Columbia on Wednesday, he immediately mobilized the state police and National Guard, but was repeatedly denied authorization to deploy.

Hogan explained that while on a video conference call with Japan's ambassador, his chief of staff interrupted to tell him "the U.S. Capitol was under attack." He organized an emergency meeting to mobilize the police and Maryland National Guard, he said, and during the meeting, Rep. Steny Hoyer (D-Md.), the No. 2 House Democrat, called from "an undisclosed bunker" to tell Hogan that Capitol Police were "overwhelmed" by the pro-Trump mob storming the Capitol.

Hoyer was "pleading with us" to send the National Guard, Hogan said, and he had to tell him authorization had not yet come through. About 90 minutes later, Secretary of the Army Ryan McCarthy called Hogan to ask, "Can you come as soon as possible?" The governor responded, "Yeah, we've been waiting. We're ready."

"I can't tell you what was going on on the other end, on the decision-making process," Hogan said. "There's been lots of speculation in the media about that, but I'm not privy to what was going on inside the White House or inside the Pentagon." There are 500 Maryland National Guard members on standby outside of D.C., Hogan said, and he wants to "assure all Americans that the state of Maryland will do anything and everything we possibly can to continue to secure the core of our nation's capital and to ensure the peaceful transition of power."

ctuser1

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6680 on: January 08, 2021, 10:57:30 AM »
I - personally - don't feel any outrage for Trump in my guts. I guess there must be some sort of max capacity for outrage on a specific topic/subject/individual that I must have crossed many years ago w.r.t. Trump.

I am, however, saddened about the depravity of Trump's enablers.

Tucker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=721Ja6aOYSo
Sounds really nice till about the 3 minute mark, and then he let's slip his casual racism when he goes on about how that Babbit girl "did not look particularly radical" like the other protesters who were "annihilistic.... wrecking our cities". He can't let go of his racism even in a "we need to fix it" video when the democracy is under attack.

Glenn Beck did something similar on this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8VC0e60wd8
I don't have the patience to listen to it again, but basically he launched into some whataboutism after sounding very sincere for a few minutes.

If anyone hoped for a quick healing, y'all are in for a nasty surprise. Prepare for a long haul of the rightwing ideologues claiming their casual racism and worse is the true "American Way"!


« Last Edit: January 08, 2021, 10:59:47 AM by ctuser1 »

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6681 on: January 08, 2021, 11:00:14 AM »
George Conway just tweeted something about having 67 votes to convict. I don't follow him closely, but I was not under the impression that he throws out blatantly false or exaggerated statements like this. Still, I have a hard time believing it is even possibly true.

I don't. Trump just incited a riot that directly threatened their lives. These are real people we're talking about, even the Trumpiest of them can't be too happy about that. And it was a direct attempt to take away their power. From a soon-to-be ex-President, who just cost them their Senate majority, who most of them hated openly up until the moment he got the nomination.

I mean, they're still Republican Senators, so right now they're trying to calculate which is more likely: that Trump will continue to control the base of voters they'll need to get reelected, or whether they can successfully be rid of him once and for all and finally regain control of their lives and party. But I wouldn't be surprised if half of them were tempted to try right now.

Kris

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6682 on: January 08, 2021, 11:01:10 AM »
I don't understand what the hold up on the impeachment is.  They should have began impeachment vote at 4AM when they finally concluded the count.  Failing that, why aren't they impeaching him right now? What is more important than impeaching him this very minute?

While I think they should, I'm sure the political reality of not having 67 senators in favor is still there. Also, with a Senate trial that will take days, especially if republicans want to grandstand, there may not even be a vote by the time Trump's term is up.

The 25th amendment is instantaneous, but I don't think Pence will do that either.

I think the US attorney's and state attorney's are the best people to handle Trump in the coming weeks.

George Conway just tweeted something about having 67 votes to convict. I don't follow him closely, but I was not under the impression that he throws out blatantly false or exaggerated statements like this. Still, I have a hard time believing it is even possibly true.

I mean, I don't know how he would be considered an authority, since he is not a member of Congress.

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6683 on: January 08, 2021, 11:01:44 AM »
Let's barricade Tucker in a room with a crowd screaming for his head outside the room and see how radical he thinks they might look...that women was very radical by all accounts. Even most of her family says she was a patriot, buy she was bizarrely obsessed with Trump and Qanon.

sui generis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6684 on: January 08, 2021, 11:14:57 AM »
I don't understand what the hold up on the impeachment is.  They should have began impeachment vote at 4AM when they finally concluded the count.  Failing that, why aren't they impeaching him right now? What is more important than impeaching him this very minute?

While I think they should, I'm sure the political reality of not having 67 senators in favor is still there. Also, with a Senate trial that will take days, especially if republicans want to grandstand, there may not even be a vote by the time Trump's term is up.

The 25th amendment is instantaneous, but I don't think Pence will do that either.

I think the US attorney's and state attorney's are the best people to handle Trump in the coming weeks.

George Conway just tweeted something about having 67 votes to convict. I don't follow him closely, but I was not under the impression that he throws out blatantly false or exaggerated statements like this. Still, I have a hard time believing it is even possibly true.

I mean, I don't know how he would be considered an authority, since he is not a member of Congress.

He's very well-connected. Would know better than a good percentage of House Republicans, I'm sure.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6685 on: January 08, 2021, 11:15:23 AM »
Let's barricade Tucker in a room with a crowd screaming for his head outside the room and see how radical he thinks they might look...that women was very radical by all accounts. Even most of her family says she was a patriot, buy she was bizarrely obsessed with Trump and Qanon.

I mean, to me, her radicalization is not even worth a mention. She tried to break into the capital. You do that on the best of days much less as a part of a mob of people with weapons, you take your life into your own hands. I mean, where are the "if she just followed the police officer's instructions" people on this one...

frugalnacho

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6686 on: January 08, 2021, 11:15:44 AM »
Whatever happens to Trump's presidency by January 20 will happen, but sadly the people involved in this attack and their supporters aren't going away anytime soon.

How does America prevent such political violence from happening again?

I rarely think violence is the answer, but it is in this case.  The punishment for a failed coup or a failed revolution should be having your head cut off.  Not figuratively, but literally. The fact that the GOP is so inept and incompetent shouldn't be an excuse for leniency.  Trump obviously, but all his top level sycophants that stood by an enabled him as well.  I realize that is a bit extreme, but so is this situation, and this isn't a situation that just accidentally happened.

A bit extreme....um....no.....just no. Everything about what happened at DC was horrific. Support jail time for Trump, for the people who rioted in DC, etc. fine. Support that the woman who was killed by authorities who was in the act of trying to break in is justified homicide, sure. But no, asinine statements about beheadings should not be made. To support this for sure but even to say it in jest (if that is what it was) is only a good thing if your goal is the further collapse of our country.

Maybe you're right and we should just continue to wag our finger and give stern looks as he plans another violent coup. 

What about if he incites another insurrection before Jan 20?   

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6687 on: January 08, 2021, 11:16:34 AM »
Let's barricade Tucker in a room with a crowd screaming for his head outside the room and see how radical he thinks they might look...that women was very radical by all accounts. Even most of her family says she was a patriot, buy she was bizarrely obsessed with Trump and Qanon.

I saw the video of her being shot. She was warned many times not to enter the room. She could only enter the room by breaking down a barricade and breaking a window. She was obviously trying to get in to murder the Vice President for having the nerve to do his Constitutional duties. It's sad that people died, but she deserved what she got.

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6688 on: January 08, 2021, 11:18:25 AM »
Let's barricade Tucker in a room with a crowd screaming for his head outside the room and see how radical he thinks they might look...that women was very radical by all accounts. Even most of her family says she was a patriot, buy she was bizarrely obsessed with Trump and Qanon.

I mean, to me, her radicalization is not even worth a mention. She tried to break into the capital. You do that on the best of days much less as a part of a mob of people with weapons, you take your life into your own hands. I mean, where are the "if she just followed the police officer's instructions" people on this one...

That is what I meant by the first part of my statement. I probably should have left the second half out as irrelevant to the officer that shot her.

Most of her family is like "Tragedy...she was a bit obsessed" so far, only her husband has said "She was just trying to express her opinion." Wonder what he would do if someone broke into his house to express their opinion.

I AM NOT ACTUALLY ADVOCATING THAT WE BARRICADE TUCKER OR THAT SOMEONE ATTACK THE GRIEVING WIDOWER. Just in case that needs to be said.

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6689 on: January 08, 2021, 11:21:41 AM »
She could only enter the room by breaking down a barricade and breaking a window. She was obviously trying to get in to murder the Vice President for having the nerve to do his Constitutional duties. It's sad that people died, but she deserved what she got.

Even if she wasn't personally trying to lynch the VP, the mob definitely was (or at least the police had good reason to think so, see the "Hang Mike Pence" video), and once someone breaks down the barriers and people start streaming through it's too late. She was the point person on a lynch mob specifically coming after the Vice President of all people, the shooting was definitely justified.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2021, 11:23:26 AM by sherr »

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6690 on: January 08, 2021, 11:32:01 AM »
Tucker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=721Ja6aOYSo
Sounds really nice till about the 3 minute mark, and then he let's slip his casual racism when he goes on about how that Babbit girl "did not look particularly radical" like the other protesters who were "annihilistic.... wrecking our cities". He can't let go of his racism even in a "we need to fix it" video when the democracy is under attack.

Tucker is a master at presenting his argument as if it were an objective look at an uncomfortable topic - right before he launches into some xenophobic racist BS (phrased as if he's merely stating the facts in the matter, and not passing judgement).

I suspect this is why so many fall for it, and why he has the top rated show in its segment.  He provides a scapegoat and fuels hate all while pretending that's not what his intentions are.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6691 on: January 08, 2021, 11:48:02 AM »
Tucker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=721Ja6aOYSo
Sounds really nice till about the 3 minute mark, and then he let's slip his casual racism when he goes on about how that Babbit girl "did not look particularly radical" like the other protesters who were "annihilistic.... wrecking our cities". He can't let go of his racism even in a "we need to fix it" video when the democracy is under attack.

I don't have cable news and never normally hear anything from Tucker, but I did out of curiosity after you linked to it.  He takes just a few seconds over the full video to compare her to people dressed in black setting fires in the cities and vandalizing.  He seemed to be referring more to their "actions".  Yes, he said "dressed" in black, and was not referring to race.  He made no reference to race issues.  It's quite a charge to call someone racist when there's no evidence of it.  The term loses its meaning when thrown around where it doesn't apply, even for those few seconds.  Since I don't know him, I can't say whether he is racist or not, but I didn't see that in the video.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6692 on: January 08, 2021, 11:54:30 AM »
Whatever happens to Trump's presidency by January 20 will happen, but sadly the people involved in this attack and their supporters aren't going away anytime soon.

How does America prevent such political violence from happening again?

I rarely think violence is the answer, but it is in this case.  The punishment for a failed coup or a failed revolution should be having your head cut off.  Not figuratively, but literally. The fact that the GOP is so inept and incompetent shouldn't be an excuse for leniency.  Trump obviously, but all his top level sycophants that stood by an enabled him as well.  I realize that is a bit extreme, but so is this situation, and this isn't a situation that just accidentally happened.

A bit extreme....um....no.....just no. Everything about what happened at DC was horrific. Support jail time for Trump, for the people who rioted in DC, etc. fine. Support that the woman who was killed by authorities who was in the act of trying to break in is justified homicide, sure. But no, asinine statements about beheadings should not be made. To support this for sure but even to say it in jest (if that is what it was) is only a good thing if your goal is the further collapse of our country.

Maybe you're right and we should just continue to wag our finger and give stern looks as he plans another violent coup. 

What about if he incites another insurrection before Jan 20?

C'mon man. I only commented on your post because I've read enough of what you've wrote to know you're better than this. There's two ways of looking at this. What we could actually accomplish and what we would  do if we were dictator for a day. Your question is about what if he incites another insurrection before January 20th. In terms of what we actually could do, there's very little we can do fast enough as a society to stop that from happening. He could be impeached, removed from office, certainly. What are the chances of him actually ending up in jail before January 20th given both present realities and the way our society is set up - pretty small. So even though FB and Twitter have banned him, unless he is in jail without access to the ability to communicate, he could potentially put out information that inspires more insurrection.

Moving on to the what would we do if we could do anything - you could stop it by putting him in jail, solitary confinement, no access to technology or ability to talk to anyone or whatever - again, if we're talking about what we would do if we could do whatever. That would prevent him from putting out communications that caused an insurrection, although you could hypothesize that the very act itself could cause some sort of violence.

Either of these two options would be doing something more than wagging our fingers at him without a literal - your word - execution by beheading. Your comment implying the options I presented would be a finger wag is disingenuous, and your idea to execute not just Trump but a nebulous amount of "top level sycophants" is beyond over the top and would lead to immeasurably more problems than it would solve. Again, you're better than this.

frugalnacho

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6693 on: January 08, 2021, 12:32:04 PM »
Maybe I'm a bit fired up.  I'm so sick of the bullshit and what they are allowed to get away with.  The law should have been enforced years ago to peacefully remove that monster before it escalated to this.  Consequences should be severe.


After a mild slap on the wrist he has his twitter back.

Quote from: Trump on Twitter
The 75,000,000 great American Patriots who voted for me, AMERICA FIRST, and MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN, will have a GIANT VOICE long into the future. They will not be disrespected or treated unfairly in any way, shape or form!!!

Sounds like he totally learned his lesson and is trying to heal the nation. 

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6694 on: January 08, 2021, 12:40:00 PM »
Maybe I'm a bit fired up.  I'm so sick of the bullshit and what they are allowed to get away with.  The law should have been enforced years ago to peacefully remove that monster before it escalated to this.  Consequences should be severe.


After a mild slap on the wrist he has his twitter back.

Quote from: Trump on Twitter
The 75,000,000 great American Patriots who voted for me, AMERICA FIRST, and MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN, will have a GIANT VOICE long into the future. They will not be disrespected or treated unfairly in any way, shape or form!!!

Sounds like he totally learned his lesson and is trying to heal the nation.


I had the same reaction.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6695 on: January 08, 2021, 12:48:38 PM »
Tucker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=721Ja6aOYSo
Sounds really nice till about the 3 minute mark, and then he let's slip his casual racism when he goes on about how that Babbit girl "did not look particularly radical" like the other protesters who were "annihilistic.... wrecking our cities". He can't let go of his racism even in a "we need to fix it" video when the democracy is under attack.

I don't have cable news and never normally hear anything from Tucker, but I did out of curiosity after you linked to it.  He takes just a few seconds over the full video to compare her to people dressed in black setting fires in the cities and vandalizing.  He seemed to be referring more to their "actions".  Yes, he said "dressed" in black, and was not referring to race.  He made no reference to race issues.  It's quite a charge to call someone racist when there's no evidence of it.  The term loses its meaning when thrown around where it doesn't apply, even for those few seconds.  Since I don't know him, I can't say whether he is racist or not, but I didn't see that in the video.

I want to point out here that many of these "people dressed in black setting fires in the cities and vandalizing" were later identified to be white supremacists trying to discredit BLM.  There's been a lot of both-side-ism going on from the likes of Tucker Carlson and his followers, but they never mention the fact that white supremacists were responsible for burning police stations, vandalizing/looting businesses, and murdering police last year.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/23/texas-boogaloo-boi-minneapolis-police-building-george-floyd
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-06-17/far-right-boogaloo-boys-linked-to-killing-of-california-lawmen-other-violence
https://heavy.com/news/2020/07/mitchell-carlson-umbrella-man/

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6696 on: January 08, 2021, 12:50:26 PM »
Tucker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=721Ja6aOYSo
Sounds really nice till about the 3 minute mark, and then he let's slip his casual racism when he goes on about how that Babbit girl "did not look particularly radical" like the other protesters who were "annihilistic.... wrecking our cities". He can't let go of his racism even in a "we need to fix it" video when the democracy is under attack.

I don't have cable news and never normally hear anything from Tucker, but I did out of curiosity after you linked to it.  He takes just a few seconds over the full video to compare her to people dressed in black setting fires in the cities and vandalizing.  He seemed to be referring more to their "actions".  Yes, he said "dressed" in black, and was not referring to race.  He made no reference to race issues.  It's quite a charge to call someone racist when there's no evidence of it.  The term loses its meaning when thrown around where it doesn't apply, even for those few seconds.  Since I don't know him, I can't say whether he is racist or not, but I didn't see that in the video.

I want to point out here that many of these "people dressed in black setting fires in the cities and vandalizing" were later identified to be white supremacists trying to discredit BLM.  There's been a lot of both-side-ism going on from the likes of Tucker Carlson and his followers, but they never mention the fact that white supremacists were responsible for burning police stations, vandalizing/looting businesses, and murdering police last year.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/23/texas-boogaloo-boi-minneapolis-police-building-george-floyd
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-06-17/far-right-boogaloo-boys-linked-to-killing-of-california-lawmen-other-violence
https://heavy.com/news/2020/07/mitchell-carlson-umbrella-man/

Why just today I was told that if BLM were out protesting the police murdering people, you can't believe the police reports that the people that they were arresting were actually proving to be right wing...faulty logic, I am told...I didn't respond.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6697 on: January 08, 2021, 12:52:29 PM »
He takes just a few seconds over the full video to compare her to ...... 
"Framing" does not require any more of that, assuming it is repeated and reinforced often.
"Scary Blacks are rampaging. How dare they protest? Any concerned citizen obviously has the right to dispose of a few of 'em as they see fit! Patriots like Zimmerman and McMichael need our support!!"


It's quite a charge to call someone racist when there's no evidence of it.

Ah! Evidence! https://www.npr.org/2020/07/12/890030168/fresh-scrutiny-for-foxs-tucker-carlson-as-top-writer-quits-over-bigoted-posts
I guess nobody cares that the scripts for his show were written for years by a "redpilled" white supremacist.

Refusing to see racist framing all around you by bigoted rightwing bastards is very widespread. It is also one of the primary reasons I said anyone hoping for a quick healing is in for a nasty surprise.


« Last Edit: January 08, 2021, 12:57:09 PM by ctuser1 »

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6698 on: January 08, 2021, 01:00:47 PM »
Tucker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=721Ja6aOYSo
Sounds really nice till about the 3 minute mark, and then he let's slip his casual racism when he goes on about how that Babbit girl "did not look particularly radical" like the other protesters who were "annihilistic.... wrecking our cities". He can't let go of his racism even in a "we need to fix it" video when the democracy is under attack.

I don't have cable news and never normally hear anything from Tucker, but I did out of curiosity after you linked to it.  He takes just a few seconds over the full video to compare her to people dressed in black setting fires in the cities and vandalizing.  He seemed to be referring more to their "actions".  Yes, he said "dressed" in black, and was not referring to race.  He made no reference to race issues.  It's quite a charge to call someone racist when there's no evidence of it.  The term loses its meaning when thrown around where it doesn't apply, even for those few seconds.  Since I don't know him, I can't say whether he is racist or not, but I didn't see that in the video.

I want to point out here that many of these "people dressed in black setting fires in the cities and vandalizing" were later identified to be white supremacists trying to discredit BLM.  There's been a lot of both-side-ism going on from the likes of Tucker Carlson and his followers, but they never mention the fact that white supremacists were responsible for burning police stations, vandalizing/looting businesses, and murdering police last year.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/23/texas-boogaloo-boi-minneapolis-police-building-george-floyd
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-06-17/far-right-boogaloo-boys-linked-to-killing-of-california-lawmen-other-violence
https://heavy.com/news/2020/07/mitchell-carlson-umbrella-man/

Tucker is busy lamenting that those who supported BLM protests are currently against these rioters in the capital. Ironically, if Tucker followed his own advice for a proper response to protesters not following the instructions of law enforcement, scores more should have been shot.

But of course thatís lost on his followers and conveniently left out of his monologues

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #6699 on: January 08, 2021, 01:17:14 PM »
She could only enter the room by breaking down a barricade and breaking a window. She was obviously trying to get in to murder the Vice President for having the nerve to do his Constitutional duties. It's sad that people died, but she deserved what she got.

Even if she wasn't personally trying to lynch the VP, the mob definitely was (or at least the police had good reason to think so, see the "Hang Mike Pence" video), and once someone breaks down the barriers and people start streaming through it's too late. She was the point person on a lynch mob specifically coming after the Vice President of all people, the shooting was definitely justified.

Absolutely. That wasn't just a room, they were smashing their way into the Speaker's Lobby, immediately behind the House Chamber. That was where the police were securing and moving Representatives and staff out of the building. Those barricaded doors were the fallback security perimeter once the decision was made to not defend the whole building. There were principals in that room, anyone crossing that final line was completely fair game to be shot without waiting for specific individual hostile intent to be shown. She may well have just been intending to "express her opinion" through trespassing and vandalism but she was the first (and it turns out only) of the mob to find the line that shall not be crossed.