Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 155634 times)

nereo

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 12496
  • Location: Just south of Canada
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1200 on: March 16, 2020, 06:09:18 PM »
btw. According to several German media, Trump is trying to buy up a possible vaccine (still research level) by a company named CureVac (Tübingen) exclusivly for the US.

Or in other words, he wants to shine: See, only here in the US, with me as president, we have a cure!

It is hard to not feel his test should have ended up positive.

Agreed. Of the many, many reprehensible things Trump has done since becoming president, this is one of the worst.

I wonder if this story will have legs.  With so much going on (pardon Flynn??) it’s hard to know what will be remembered next week and what we will have moved on from.

I can’t even wrap my head around why he’d want exclusive control over a vaccine from our allies.  Typically you want your allies to live. But then again Trump often considers himself ‘winning’ if he has lost less than the other people in the room.

bacchi

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4528
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1201 on: March 16, 2020, 07:18:43 PM »
The company should sell the US "exclusive" rights and then give it away to the rest of the world. When Trump complains, Germany can tell Deutsche to stop loaning money to him.

LennStar

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1749
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1202 on: March 17, 2020, 05:33:41 AM »
The company should sell the US "exclusive" rights and then give it away to the rest of the world. When Trump complains, Germany can tell Deutsche to stop loaning money to him.
They already did this at least twice. But they are too greedy.

Anyway, what do you think Germany is, Communistan? The government can't tell that to a private company.
And even if they would, we all now have those "Free Trade Treaties" thanks to which Trump could sue Deutsche Bank at a private "court",  without things like pesky national laws interfering. There the "judges", lawyers from the Big Four accounting firms, who have invented this kind of court, would judge in secret who has to pay whom how much.


Anyway, the company has refused the offer. I guess since the offer was going for about a month now, the "leak" and the prompt confirmation from the politics that this offer indeed exists and government is in the case, I think it means the company never wanted to accept it and wanted the gov to step in to prevent Trump going nuke on them.

MoseyingAlong

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 141
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1203 on: March 17, 2020, 05:46:20 AM »
CureVac denied there ever was an offer.

"CureVac
@CureVacAG
·
22h
To make it clear again on coronavirus: CureVac has not received from the US government or related entities an offer before, during and since the Task Force meeting in the White House on March 2. CureVac rejects all allegations from press."
« Last Edit: March 17, 2020, 05:49:06 AM by MoseyingAlong »

GreenEggs

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1004
  • Location: Here & There
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1204 on: March 17, 2020, 06:11:36 AM »
Looks like Trump's going to kill more Americans than the NRA this year.  MAGA!

OtherJen

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2855
  • Location: Metro Detroit
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1205 on: March 17, 2020, 06:21:28 AM »
CureVac denied there ever was an offer.

"CureVac
@CureVacAG
·
22h
To make it clear again on coronavirus: CureVac has not received from the US government or related entities an offer before, during and since the Task Force meeting in the White House on March 2. CureVac rejects all allegations from press."

They’ve been close-lipped about why their CEO, who met with Trump early this month, was suddenly replaced by the company founder.

LennStar

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1749
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1206 on: March 17, 2020, 10:08:50 AM »
CureVac denied there ever was an offer.

"CureVac
@CureVacAG
·
22h
To make it clear again on coronavirus: CureVac has not received from the US government or related entities an offer before, during and since the Task Force meeting in the White House on March 2. CureVac rejects all allegations from press."

Sounds like the typical overaccurate dementi.

Quote
during and since ... March 2.

Well, nobody said they did. What was said is that they received an offer in early February (or even January).
And the German government very officially said there were talks going on with the topic of a possible vaccine being accessible for all the world.
There wouldn't be those talks if there wasn't a real possibility that this would not be the case.

Glenstache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2481
  • Location: Seattle!
  • Target FI date 2027 (maybe?)
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1207 on: March 17, 2020, 05:28:03 PM »
CureVac denied there ever was an offer.

"CureVac
@CureVacAG
·
22h
To make it clear again on coronavirus: CureVac has not received from the US government or related entities an offer before, during and since the Task Force meeting in the White House on March 2. CureVac rejects all allegations from press."

They’ve been close-lipped about why their CEO, who met with Trump early this month, was suddenly replaced by the company founder.
Maybe they thought he was at risk of coronavirus infection...

LennStar

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1749
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1208 on: March 18, 2020, 06:40:52 AM »
Addition to the overaccurate dementi:

It also does not state if they got an offer from the private Citizen Trump. Knowing him I would not be surprised if the businessman Trump bought a vaccine to give it to the people to shine AND to demonstrate for the GOP that the government can't do a thing and private is always better.

scottish

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1612
  • Location: Ottawa
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1209 on: March 18, 2020, 09:09:02 AM »
Addition to the overaccurate dementi:

It also does not state if they got an offer from the private Citizen Trump. Knowing him I would not be surprised if the businessman Trump bought a vaccine to give it to the people to shine AND to demonstrate for the GOP that the government can't do a thing and private is always better.

Early vaccines have side effects, some of them unpleasant.     Off hand, I can't think of a better candidate for a trial...

OtherJen

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2855
  • Location: Metro Detroit
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1210 on: March 18, 2020, 09:26:22 AM »
Trump decided to attempt a Twitter attack on my state's governor, Gretchen Whitmer. Thankfully, she is not afraid of him and is completely out of fucks to give: Trump unleashes unfounded criticism of Gov. Whitmer's handling of coronavirus outbreak

Also from the article:

Quote
On Monday morning, Trump told a group of governors that the federal government does not have enough equipment to meet state demands, telling states to "try getting it yourselves."

"To hear the leader of the federal government tell us to work around the federal government because it's too slow, it's kind of mind-boggling, to be honest," Whitmer responded on MSNBC on Tuesday morning.

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 15590
  • Age: 38
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1211 on: March 18, 2020, 09:29:50 AM »
Trump decided to attempt a Twitter attack on my state's governor, Gretchen Whitmer. Thankfully, she is not afraid of him and is completely out of fucks to give: Trump unleashes unfounded criticism of Gov. Whitmer's handling of coronavirus outbreak

Also from the article:

Quote
On Monday morning, Trump told a group of governors that the federal government does not have enough equipment to meet state demands, telling states to "try getting it yourselves."

"To hear the leader of the federal government tell us to work around the federal government because it's too slow, it's kind of mind-boggling, to be honest," Whitmer responded on MSNBC on Tuesday morning.

Takes the kind of giant balls that you only get from having locked down every Republican vote in the country no matter what you do for someone with Trump's track record on this to criticize someone else.

talltexan

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3271
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1212 on: March 18, 2020, 12:04:56 PM »
Indeed, whatever your threshold for "I cannot believe he is doing..." is, this thread was meant to be a place for it to be exceeded routinely.

Kyle Schuant

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1108
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1213 on: March 19, 2020, 01:35:21 AM »
"To hear the leader of the federal government tell us to work around the federal government because it's too slow, it's kind of mind-boggling, to be honest," Whitmer responded.

It's also realistic :)

MasterStache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2423
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1214 on: March 19, 2020, 06:08:33 AM »
Indeed, whatever your threshold for "I cannot believe he is doing..." is, this thread was meant to be a place for it to be exceeded routinely.
Well she did call it him out using facts, so of course he is going to go on the defensive. That's his MO. I would expect nothing less from dictator in chief.

Roland of Gilead

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2037
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1215 on: March 19, 2020, 08:59:14 AM »
See, I kind of get what Trump was saying when he said "try and get it yourselves"

He was saying the states may already have relationships set up with suppliers and it would actually be slower if they tried to wait for the Federal government to do what it does best, which is move really sluggish.

He just doesn't word things very well.  I think his numbers would go up 10% if he had a built in 30 second delay and someone changed the password on his Twitter account.


Kris

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5190
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1216 on: March 19, 2020, 09:52:43 AM »
See, I kind of get what Trump was saying when he said "try and get it yourselves"

He was saying the states may already have relationships set up with suppliers and it would actually be slower if they tried to wait for the Federal government to do what it does best, which is move really sluggish.

He just doesn't word things very well.  I think his numbers would go up 10% if he had a built in 30 second delay and someone changed the password on his Twitter account.

Yeah. And “wording things well” is a pretty significant part of the job of President of the United States.

Glenstache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2481
  • Location: Seattle!
  • Target FI date 2027 (maybe?)
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1217 on: March 19, 2020, 11:11:10 AM »
See, I kind of get what Trump was saying when he said "try and get it yourselves"

He was saying the states may already have relationships set up with suppliers and it would actually be slower if they tried to wait for the Federal government to do what it does best, which is move really sluggish.

He just doesn't word things very well.  I think his numbers would go up 10% if he had a built in 30 second delay and someone changed the password on his Twitter account.
There is an implicit assumption in the phrasing that states were not already working on their sources. The Feds have a different toolbox. The appropriate response should have been to be that the Feds were going to what they could to help, not "use your own life raft." And honestly, free market attempts at who has a priority sales contract for vents and PPE maybe isn't aligned well with where things are needed. Public health is exactly the place for planned allocation of resources.

kenmoremmm

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 471
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1218 on: March 19, 2020, 02:00:42 PM »
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/19/world/coronavirus-news.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage#link-7ce4c55c

another targeted attack on coastal states and the "elite left"?
Quote
Senate Republicans, racing to fill in the details of a $1 trillion or larger economic stabilization package requested by the White House, have drafted a plan that would send payments of $1,200 to individual taxpayers and $2,400 to families, with another $500 per child, according to two people familiar with the negotiations who insisted on anonymity to describe an emerging proposal.

The direct payments, they said, would begin phasing out for those earning more than $75,000. Individuals who made more than $99,000 and families earning more than $198,000 would not be eligible.

Pizzabrewer

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 626
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1219 on: March 19, 2020, 02:21:46 PM »
See, I kind of get what Trump was saying when he said "try and get it yourselves"

He was saying the states may already have relationships set up with suppliers and it would actually be slower if they tried to wait for the Federal government to do what it does best, which is move really sluggish.

He just doesn't word things very well.  I think his numbers would go up 10% if he had a built in 30 second delay and someone changed the password on his Twitter account.

I think you're being entirely too generous.

skp

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 177
  • Location: oh
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1220 on: March 19, 2020, 02:53:12 PM »
See, I kind of get what Trump was saying when he said "try and get it yourselves"

He was saying the states may already have relationships set up with suppliers and it would actually be slower if they tried to wait for the Federal government to do what it does best, which is move really sluggish.

He just doesn't word things very well.  I think his numbers would go up 10% if he had a built in 30 second delay and someone changed the password on his Twitter account.
I agree with Trump here.  Different world view I suppose.  Here is an example.  I live in the snowbelt of Ohio and remember several years ago we had a huge snowstorm.  The news carried every day pictures of all the snow and how awful the roads looked. The city of Cleveland wasn't able to get to the side roads in a timely fashion and the residents were irate.  It was unsafe, ambulances etc. couldn't access their houses.  I get it. It had been over a week.  But why bitch and put yourselves in harms way and rely/ insist  on the city doing what it is suppose to do.  For whatever reason they couldn't or wouldn't fix the problem.  I couldn't understand it. These houses were on postage stamp lots. If every one who lived on that street shoveled a driveways worth of snow a day (and maybe did an extra driveways worth for a neighbor who couldn't) that road would have been cleared.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2020, 02:57:57 PM by skp »

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 15590
  • Age: 38
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1221 on: March 19, 2020, 03:05:12 PM »
See, I kind of get what Trump was saying when he said "try and get it yourselves"

He was saying the states may already have relationships set up with suppliers and it would actually be slower if they tried to wait for the Federal government to do what it does best, which is move really sluggish.

He just doesn't word things very well.  I think his numbers would go up 10% if he had a built in 30 second delay and someone changed the password on his Twitter account.
I agree with Trump here.  Different world view I suppose.  Here is an example.  I live in the snowbelt of Ohio and remember several years ago we had a huge snowstorm.  The news carried every day pictures of all the snow and how awful the roads looked. The city of Cleveland wasn't able to get to the side roads in a timely fashion and the residents were irate.  It was unsafe, ambulances etc. couldn't access their houses.  I get it. It had been over a week.  But why bitch and put yourselves in harms way and rely/ insist  on the city doing what it is suppose to do.  For whatever reason they couldn't or wouldn't fix the problem.  I couldn't understand it. These houses were on postage stamp lots. If every one who lived on that street shoveled a driveways worth of snow a day (and maybe did an extra driveways worth for a neighbor who couldn't) that road would have been cleared.

Sometimes people who are smart,fit, and friendly overestimate the capabilities and good motiviations of those who aren't.  My experience is that for every two people willing and able to shovel their own section of road, there is one unable to do so.  Of those willing an able, more than 50% are unwilling to do two sections of road.  Then you have the folks who don't live on postage sized lots and could never ever shovel the section of road to their neighbour's house.

In an ideal world, your vision of people doing what they should do would happen.  In fact, in an ideal world there would be no need for laws of any kind.  People would just do the right thing.  Libertianism and communism would both work beautifully.  I wish that we lived in that world, but nothing I've experienced in life tells me that we do.

MasterStache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2423
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1222 on: March 19, 2020, 05:10:57 PM »
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/19/world/coronavirus-news.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage#link-7ce4c55c

another targeted attack on coastal states and the "elite left"?
Quote
Senate Republicans, racing to fill in the details of a $1 trillion or larger economic stabilization package requested by the White House, have drafted a plan that would send payments of $1,200 to individual taxpayers and $2,400 to families, with another $500 per child, according to two people familiar with the negotiations who insisted on anonymity to describe an emerging proposal.

The direct payments, they said, would begin phasing out for those earning more than $75,000. Individuals who made more than $99,000 and families earning more than $198,000 would not be eligible.

I would be surprised if anyone sees a check (besides politicians). Graham is already trying to talk Trump out of it.

JLee

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6005
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1223 on: March 19, 2020, 05:20:26 PM »
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/19/world/coronavirus-news.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage#link-7ce4c55c

another targeted attack on coastal states and the "elite left"?
Quote
Senate Republicans, racing to fill in the details of a $1 trillion or larger economic stabilization package requested by the White House, have drafted a plan that would send payments of $1,200 to individual taxpayers and $2,400 to families, with another $500 per child, according to two people familiar with the negotiations who insisted on anonymity to describe an emerging proposal.

The direct payments, they said, would begin phasing out for those earning more than $75,000. Individuals who made more than $99,000 and families earning more than $198,000 would not be eligible.

How about a check for one month's worth of property taxes? 

*cries in NJ*

On the bright side I am in an industry that will likely pull through, so hopefully I won't have a need for a subsidy anyway. Fingers crossed.

nereo

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 12496
  • Location: Just south of Canada
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1224 on: March 20, 2020, 06:45:42 AM »
Not Trump, but Senator Richard Burr (R- NC) sold a ton of investments while publicly downplaying the effect that the virus might have here.   he is the chair of the Senate Intelligence committee and has access to all sorts of information about the virus long before it was made public. Strong case of insider trading here. Idiot.

LennStar

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1749
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1225 on: March 20, 2020, 06:55:36 AM »
Quote
In an ideal world, your vision of people doing what they should do would happen.  In fact, in an ideal world there would be no need for laws of any kind.  People would just do the right thing.  Libertianism and communism would both work beautifully.  I wish that we lived in that world, but nothing I've experienced in life tells me that we do.
Amen! So many people are unable to understand that when it come to their pet "ideology".

Quote
On the bright side I am in an industry that will likely pull through, so hopefully I won't have a need for a subsidy anyway. Fingers crossed.


Why, instead of all that unemployment wailing and programs and whatever, you simply keep the people working for their firms?
In Germany we have "Shorted Work Money". In a case of severe economical problems, companies cut the hours people work (e.g. by half).
People still get their fully salary, just the state pays most of that part. ...oh, now I know why it is a no-go in the US.
Anyway, with this people keep their income, companies their trained workers, and the bureocracy isn't overwhelmed with the unemployed horde. Also it dampens the economic impact because people still have their money.

It is not a perfect tool, but it is better than just let everything go into ruins, I am sure.

Yeah. And “wording things well” is a pretty significant part of the job of President of the United States.
A little besides:

Most of you likely don't know that Germany indeed has a president (Bundespräsident), who is officially the highest person in state - not the Chancellor.
The president's role is mainly ceremonically and while some are important powers they are generally not ah... used influentially (a bit like the English Queen I guess?)
The president is also elected by a singular institution: Die Bundesversammlung consists in half of the members of parliament and another half by people elected by the members of the state parliaments (so could be everyone, that is deemed "worthy").
Since most of the president's powers are only the power of word, the persons elected tend to be a bit better than Trump in this regard. It also offers unique possibilities in diplomacy: The president can do official state visits but has no direct power, so he can be a sort of ice breaker or negotiator for heavy stuff. 

JLee

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6005
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1226 on: March 20, 2020, 06:59:18 AM »
Quote
On the bright side I am in an industry that will likely pull through, so hopefully I won't have a need for a subsidy anyway. Fingers crossed.


Why, instead of all that unemployment wailing and programs and whatever, you simply keep the people working for their firms?
In Germany we have "Shorted Work Money". In a case of severe economical problems, companies cut the hours people work (e.g. by half).
People still get their fully salary, just the state pays most of that part. ...oh, now I know why it is a no-go in the US.
Anyway, with this people keep their income, companies their trained workers, and the bureocracy isn't overwhelmed with the unemployed horde. Also it dampens the economic impact because people still have their money.

It is not a perfect tool, but it is better than just let everything go into ruins, I am sure.

See, now that would make too much sense...just like centralized health care.

:(

GreenEggs

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1004
  • Location: Here & There
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1227 on: March 20, 2020, 07:11:25 AM »
Not Trump, but Senator Richard Burr (R- NC) sold a ton of investments while publicly downplaying the effect that the virus might have here.   he is the chair of the Senate Intelligence committee and has access to all sorts of information about the virus long before it was made public. Strong case of insider trading here. Idiot.


I heard that he met with his rich supporters and warned them to sell off their investments too.  Besides being insider trading he likely triggered the crash, IMO.
This morning DW read a list of 4 or 5 other fine Congress members that sold their investments just before the crash too.  All but one on the list were Republican. 



talltexan

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3271
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1228 on: March 20, 2020, 07:31:51 AM »
See, I kind of get what Trump was saying when he said "try and get it yourselves"

He was saying the states may already have relationships set up with suppliers and it would actually be slower if they tried to wait for the Federal government to do what it does best, which is move really sluggish.

He just doesn't word things very well.  I think his numbers would go up 10% if he had a built in 30 second delay and someone changed the password on his Twitter account.
I agree with Trump here.  Different world view I suppose.  Here is an example.  I live in the snowbelt of Ohio and remember several years ago we had a huge snowstorm.  The news carried every day pictures of all the snow and how awful the roads looked. The city of Cleveland wasn't able to get to the side roads in a timely fashion and the residents were irate.  It was unsafe, ambulances etc. couldn't access their houses.  I get it. It had been over a week.  But why bitch and put yourselves in harms way and rely/ insist  on the city doing what it is suppose to do.  For whatever reason they couldn't or wouldn't fix the problem.  I couldn't understand it. These houses were on postage stamp lots. If every one who lived on that street shoveled a driveways worth of snow a day (and maybe did an extra driveways worth for a neighbor who couldn't) that road would have been cleared.

Sometimes people who are smart,fit, and friendly overestimate the capabilities and good motiviations of those who aren't.  My experience is that for every two people willing and able to shovel their own section of road, there is one unable to do so.  Of those willing an able, more than 50% are unwilling to do two sections of road.  Then you have the folks who don't live on postage sized lots and could never ever shovel the section of road to their neighbour's house.

In an ideal world, your vision of people doing what they should do would happen.  In fact, in an ideal world there would be no need for laws of any kind.  People would just do the right thing.  Libertianism and communism would both work beautifully.  I wish that we lived in that world, but nothing I've experienced in life tells me that we do.

Excellent response. The very same people who are unable to shovel their own walkways are most likely to need the ambulance access.

sherr

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 823
  • Age: 34
  • Location: North Carolina
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1229 on: March 20, 2020, 07:34:42 AM »
Not Trump, but Senator Richard Burr (R- NC) sold a ton of investments while publicly downplaying the effect that the virus might have here.   he is the chair of the Senate Intelligence committee and has access to all sorts of information about the virus long before it was made public. Strong case of insider trading here. Idiot.


I heard that he met with his rich supporters and warned them to sell off their investments too.  Besides being insider trading he likely triggered the crash, IMO.
This morning DW read a list of 4 or 5 other fine Congress members that sold their investments just before the crash too.  All but one on the list were Republican.

He definitely did not "trigger the crash". A few rich supporters is way too small of a group to have that large of an effect, and there are very logical reasons for the crash to happen regardless of Burr's actions.

They are likely all guilty of insider trading though, and I hope they see jail time for it (not to mention profits confiscated and a hefty penalty on top).

talltexan

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3271
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1230 on: March 20, 2020, 07:50:48 AM »
At first I was outraged about this.

But then I thought, "If a 60-year old man had come to be in Feb., and said he was selling his stocks because everything just seemed too high, that wouldn't be weird at all."

Of course, I know very few 60-year old me who have access to classified Senate briefings, so there's that.

EvenSteven

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 384
  • Location: St. Louis
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1231 on: March 20, 2020, 08:08:12 AM »
I always thought it was explicitly legal for members of congress to engage in insider trading.

sherr

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 823
  • Age: 34
  • Location: North Carolina
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1232 on: March 20, 2020, 08:13:17 AM »
I always thought it was explicitly legal for members of congress to engage in insider trading.

It was, but not since the STOCK Act of 2012. And it would have always been illegal for Burr's supporters.

nereo

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 12496
  • Location: Just south of Canada
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1233 on: March 20, 2020, 08:18:14 AM »
At first I was outraged about this.

But then I thought, "If a 60-year old man had come to be in Feb., and said he was selling his stocks because everything just seemed too high, that wouldn't be weird at all."

Of course, I know very few 60-year old me who have access to classified Senate briefings, so there's that.
The problem as I see it is two fold
1. It uses illegal to buy or sell publicly traded stock based on private information
2  a figure of Authority cannot publicly state that the risk is minimal while believing otherwise and profiting

As for whether they caused or accelerated a crash- much harder to determine. Certainly the volume of shares traded is tiny relative to the total, but Wall Street is always searching for a sign of things to come. CEOs or Senators with non public info dumping shares can certainly evoke a panicked response. That’s one reason why there are moratorium on share trading in the days before market data is released. Look what happened to Bush when he casually tweeted about securing private funding for Tesla.

martyconlonontherun

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 280
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1234 on: March 20, 2020, 08:20:56 AM »
I always thought it was explicitly legal for members of congress to engage in insider trading.
I think Barr had 29 trades over the month. I would think it would be hard to convict unless he wrote an email saying "Dear God, the economy is going to the shitter based on the news I heard from the intel committee and I need to sell before it becomes public knowledge." He could point to some random BBC, Post, Times article on almost every day showing lock downs and the future effect on the economy. We are all geniuses in the stock market with hindsite.

nereo

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 12496
  • Location: Just south of Canada
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1235 on: March 20, 2020, 08:32:18 AM »
I always thought it was explicitly legal for members of congress to engage in insider trading.
I think Barr had 29 trades over the month. I would think it would be hard to convict unless he wrote an email saying "Dear God, the economy is going to the shitter based on the news I heard from the intel committee and I need to sell before it becomes public knowledge." He could point to some random BBC, Post, Times article on almost every day showing lock downs and the future effect on the economy. We are all geniuses in the stock market with hindsite.

Once again we are stuck debating whether an action can be successfully prosecuted rather than whether it is unethical. So it goes.

MasterStache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2423
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1236 on: March 20, 2020, 09:06:47 AM »
I always thought it was explicitly legal for members of congress to engage in insider trading.
I think Barr had 29 trades over the month. I would think it would be hard to convict unless he wrote an email saying "Dear God, the economy is going to the shitter based on the news I heard from the intel committee and I need to sell before it becomes public knowledge." He could point to some random BBC, Post, Times article on almost every day showing lock downs and the future effect on the economy. We are all geniuses in the stock market with hindsite.

Actually it was 33 and it was a hefty chunk of his portfolio. No email needed. There is allegedly a recording of Burr telling a group of VIPs at a social club of the potential economic impact of the Caronavirus. Just for context Burr was also 1 of only 3 Senators to oppose the STOCK Act. It's certainly seems obvious that it's insider trading, but since he is a Republican Senator, laws likely don't apply to him.

talltexan

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3271
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1237 on: March 20, 2020, 11:21:24 AM »
I always thought it was explicitly legal for members of congress to engage in insider trading.
I think Barr had 29 trades over the month. I would think it would be hard to convict unless he wrote an email saying "Dear God, the economy is going to the shitter based on the news I heard from the intel committee and I need to sell before it becomes public knowledge." He could point to some random BBC, Post, Times article on almost every day showing lock downs and the future effect on the economy. We are all geniuses in the stock market with hindsite.

Actually it was 33 and it was a hefty chunk of his portfolio. No email needed. There is allegedly a recording of Burr telling a group of VIPs at a social club of the potential economic impact of the Caronavirus. Just for context Burr was also 1 of only 3 Senators to oppose the STOCK Act. It's certainly seems obvious that it's insider trading, but since he is a Republican Senator, laws likely don't apply to him.

Indeed, I think we're seeing a feature of our criminal justice system. It ultimately falls on prosecutors to decide what to pursue. No way Burr resigns with a Democrat as governor (who'd appoint a replacement).

Although unethical, Burr was smart: he risked a very small chance of legal consequence in exchange for locking in his family's financial security.

He traded away some honor, but this kind of public shame will pass away as our attention shifts to the slime of Fall's Presidential election. And Thom Tillis (the other GOP senator from NC) may lose.

sherr

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 823
  • Age: 34
  • Location: North Carolina
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1238 on: March 20, 2020, 12:00:39 PM »
I always thought it was explicitly legal for members of congress to engage in insider trading.
I think Barr had 29 trades over the month. I would think it would be hard to convict unless he wrote an email saying "Dear God, the economy is going to the shitter based on the news I heard from the intel committee and I need to sell before it becomes public knowledge." He could point to some random BBC, Post, Times article on almost every day showing lock downs and the future effect on the economy. We are all geniuses in the stock market with hindsite.

Actually it was 33 and it was a hefty chunk of his portfolio. No email needed. There is allegedly a recording of Burr telling a group of VIPs at a social club of the potential economic impact of the Caronavirus. Just for context Burr was also 1 of only 3 Senators to oppose the STOCK Act. It's certainly seems obvious that it's insider trading, but since he is a Republican Senator, laws likely don't apply to him.

Indeed, I think we're seeing a feature of our criminal justice system. It ultimately falls on prosecutors to decide what to pursue. No way Burr resigns with a Democrat as governor (who'd appoint a replacement).

Although unethical, Burr was smart: he risked a very small chance of legal consequence in exchange for locking in his family's financial security.

He traded away some honor, but this kind of public shame will pass away as our attention shifts to the slime of Fall's Presidential election. And Thom Tillis (the other GOP senator from NC) may lose.

"Smart", "honor", "shame": bullshit.

What Barr did was illegal and openly corrupt. He deserves to have the book thrown at him, as does Trump, once patriots are again in charge of this country.

nereo

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 12496
  • Location: Just south of Canada
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1239 on: March 20, 2020, 12:51:36 PM »
Agree. It isn’t “smart” to do something knowing you will likely avoid punishment. It’s wrong.
The ends don’t justify the means.

ixtap

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1965
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1240 on: March 20, 2020, 01:15:00 PM »
The stock market doesn't like it when he throws a temper tantrum on national television.

bacchi

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4528
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1241 on: March 20, 2020, 01:26:56 PM »
The stock market doesn't like it when he throws a temper tantrum on national television.

Is that why the markets flipped? Yeah, Trump has the anti-Midas touch recently. It's why he now has press conferences on Friday afternoons.

ixtap

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1965
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1242 on: March 20, 2020, 02:04:20 PM »
The stock market doesn't like it when he throws a temper tantrum on national television.

Is that why the markets flipped? Yeah, Trump has the anti-Midas touch recently. It's why he now has press conferences on Friday afternoons.

I don't actually know why it flipped, but even on the way up, it often dipped when he threw a temper tantrum.

nereo

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 12496
  • Location: Just south of Canada
    • Here's how you can support science today:
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1243 on: March 20, 2020, 02:15:28 PM »
Just to be clear, the markets are now lower than they were when Trump took office. Despite the tax cut, despite the deregulation, rates at near zero %, the upcoming bailouts, the massive run up of public debt.

Somehow I’m sure he’ll spin this as all Obama’s falult.

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 15590
  • Age: 38
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1244 on: March 20, 2020, 02:58:37 PM »
Just to be clear, the markets are now lower than they were when Trump took office. Despite the tax cut, despite the deregulation, rates at near zero %, the upcoming bailouts, the massive run up of public debt.

Somehow I’m sure he’ll spin this as all Obama’s falult.

No way.  After all, this has his name all over it:

DaMa

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 434
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1245 on: March 21, 2020, 12:35:37 PM »
Trump is absolutely responsible for propagating misinformation that affects millions of lives. By choosing not to test for fear of how the numbers would affect his chances at election time, he cost us valuable time. We have no chance of containment since the virus has been spreading unchecked in the US for almost 2 months. By telling people it was no worse than the flu and would be gone by April and was the democrats next hoax, he led people into a false sense of security and they continued their lives as usual allowing the virus to spread.

He is absolutely culpable. Here's a few of his tweets to demonstrate (copied from Jared Levy)

January 22: “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. It’s going to be just fine.”

February 2: “We pretty much shut it down coming in from China.”

February 24: “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA… Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”

February 25: “CDC and my Administration are doing a GREAT job of handling Coronavirus.”

February 25: “I think that's a problem that’s going to go away… They have studied it. They know very much. In fact, we’re very close to a vaccine.”

February 26: “The 15 (cases in the US) within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero.”

February 26: “We're going very substantially down, not up.”

February 27: “One day it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”

February 28: “We're ordering a lot of supplies. We're ordering a lot of, uh, elements that frankly we wouldn't be ordering unless it was something like this. But we're ordering a lot of different elements of medical.”

March 2: “You take a solid flu vaccine, you don't think that could have an impact, or much of an impact, on corona?”

March 2: “A lot of things are happening, a lot of very exciting things are happening and they’re happening very rapidly.”

March 4: “If we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work — some of them go to work, but they get better.”

March 5: “I NEVER said people that are feeling sick should go to work.”

March 5: “The United States… has, as of now, only 129 cases… and 11 deaths. We are working very hard to keep these numbers as low as possible!”

March 6: “I think we’re doing a really good job in this country at keeping it down… a tremendous job at keeping it down.”

March 6: “Anybody right now, and yesterday, anybody that needs a test gets a test. They’re there. And the tests are beautiful…. the tests are all perfect like the letter was perfect. The transcription was perfect. Right? This was not as perfect as that but pretty good.”

March 6: “I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it… Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president.”

March 6: “I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn't our fault.”

March 8: “We have a perfectly coordinated and fine tuned plan at the White House for our attack on CoronaVirus.”

March 9: “This blindsided the world.”

March 11: “We’re having to fix a problem that four weeks ago nobody ever thought would be a problem.”

@Omy , can you point me to the source of this?  I tried googling and couldn't find it. 

OzzieandHarriet

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 383
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1246 on: March 21, 2020, 03:26:22 PM »
Trump is absolutely responsible for propagating misinformation that affects millions of lives. By choosing not to test for fear of how the numbers would affect his chances at election time, he cost us valuable time. We have no chance of containment since the virus has been spreading unchecked in the US for almost 2 months. By telling people it was no worse than the flu and would be gone by April and was the democrats next hoax, he led people into a false sense of security and they continued their lives as usual allowing the virus to spread.

He is absolutely culpable. Here's a few of his tweets to demonstrate (copied from Jared Levy)

January 22: “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. It’s going to be just fine.”

February 2: “We pretty much shut it down coming in from China.”

February 24: “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA… Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”

February 25: “CDC and my Administration are doing a GREAT job of handling Coronavirus.”

February 25: “I think that's a problem that’s going to go away… They have studied it. They know very much. In fact, we’re very close to a vaccine.”

February 26: “The 15 (cases in the US) within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero.”

February 26: “We're going very substantially down, not up.”

February 27: “One day it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”

February 28: “We're ordering a lot of supplies. We're ordering a lot of, uh, elements that frankly we wouldn't be ordering unless it was something like this. But we're ordering a lot of different elements of medical.”

March 2: “You take a solid flu vaccine, you don't think that could have an impact, or much of an impact, on corona?”

March 2: “A lot of things are happening, a lot of very exciting things are happening and they’re happening very rapidly.”

March 4: “If we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work — some of them go to work, but they get better.”

March 5: “I NEVER said people that are feeling sick should go to work.”

March 5: “The United States… has, as of now, only 129 cases… and 11 deaths. We are working very hard to keep these numbers as low as possible!”

March 6: “I think we’re doing a really good job in this country at keeping it down… a tremendous job at keeping it down.”

March 6: “Anybody right now, and yesterday, anybody that needs a test gets a test. They’re there. And the tests are beautiful…. the tests are all perfect like the letter was perfect. The transcription was perfect. Right? This was not as perfect as that but pretty good.”

March 6: “I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it… Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president.”

March 6: “I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn't our fault.”

March 8: “We have a perfectly coordinated and fine tuned plan at the White House for our attack on CoronaVirus.”

March 9: “This blindsided the world.”

March 11: “We’re having to fix a problem that four weeks ago nobody ever thought would be a problem.”

@Omy , can you point me to the source of this?  I tried googling and couldn't find it.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/timeline-trump-covid19-responses/

Omy

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 591
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1247 on: March 21, 2020, 03:51:29 PM »
Thanks, OandH.

ysette9

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6474
  • Location: Bay Area, CA
    • The Best Is Yet To Come
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1248 on: March 21, 2020, 03:57:38 PM »
Not Trump, but Senator Richard Burr (R- NC) sold a ton of investments while publicly downplaying the effect that the virus might have here.   he is the chair of the Senate Intelligence committee and has access to all sorts of information about the virus long before it was made public. Strong case of insider trading here. Idiot.


I heard that he met with his rich supporters and warned them to sell off their investments too.  Besides being insider trading he likely triggered the crash, IMO.
This morning DW read a list of 4 or 5 other fine Congress members that sold their investments just before the crash too.  All but one on the list were Republican.

He definitely did not "trigger the crash". A few rich supporters is way too small of a group to have that large of an effect, and there are very logical reasons for the crash to happen regardless of Burr's actions.

They are likely all guilty of insider trading though, and I hope they see jail time for it (not to mention profits confiscated and a hefty penalty on top).
Do you follow Heather Cox Richardson on FB? I highly recommend her for current events summary and analysis with a historical context. She covered this in today’s letter. https://m.facebook.com/heathercoxrichardson/


DaMa

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 434
Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #1249 on: March 21, 2020, 09:11:55 PM »
Thanks Omy and OandH!