Author Topic: Trump outrage of the day  (Read 666413 times)

ctuser1

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4150 on: September 16, 2020, 01:26:06 PM »
I think the plan with DC is to shrink the District of Columbia down to only include the federal buildings (White House, Capitol etc. etc.), and incorporate the rest in a new state.

I don't know about the 50k thing though. I've been to DC multiple times, and my impression was that hardly anybody lives within the proposed borders of the new district of columbia. But then, I've never lived there. So I may be wrong.

FIPurpose

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4151 on: September 16, 2020, 01:30:23 PM »

It's my understanding that DC Statehood would not put the seat of government inside a state. It would shrink the current DC down to a few blocks where the actual buildings are. Now constitutionally that would be interesting as only a few people would still be living in DC, but would they still have rights to 3 electoral votes despite being reduced from a population of 700k to something more like 50k? They would be the most powerful votes per person in the country.


I'm not sure I follow.
How would DC Statehood lead to a state with 50k people and 3 electoral votes?  What would happen to the other 700k-odd people currently residing in DC?

Growing up I also heard about the 'excluding federal properties and various government buildings' - which would be a bit bizarre as they are scattered around the entire city. It would also result in a state unlike any other.  Absolutely tiny - even compared to wee Rhode Island.  By far the highest population density of any state, with negligible forest, agricultural and interstates, but lots of urban needs.... I wonder how it would play out whenever a farming bill came to the floor...

Other way around. Here is the proposed map:



So I would assume the state part would have about 650k people and the newly shrunk federal district would have about 50k people remaining in it.

However, you can see that there is still a federal district part of the map. And according to the 23rd amendment, that much smaller federal district would still granted electors equal to the smallest district (ie 3).

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4152 on: September 16, 2020, 01:33:05 PM »
So apparently the Trump Town Hall on ABC went well last night.

I'd like to hear more about this.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4153 on: September 16, 2020, 01:41:28 PM »



So I would assume the state part would have about 650k people and the newly shrunk federal district would have about 50k people remaining in it.

However, you can see that there is still a federal district part of the map. And according to the 23rd amendment, that much smaller federal district would still granted electors equal to the smallest district (ie 3).

Gotcha.  So the remaining federal district would have 3 electors but no votes in congress, while the state of whatever-they-rename-DC would have two senators and 1 member in the HOuse.  That state would also have 3 electors during presidential elections.  Another state would lose a House member (to satistfy the Permanent Appointment Act) and... I'm not sure if the extra Senate seats would mean fewer in the House... have to check the wording of the PAA.

Glenstache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4154 on: September 16, 2020, 01:46:11 PM »
So apparently the Trump Town Hall on ABC went well last night.

I'd like to hear more about this.
https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-news-trump-ambushed-town-hall-voters-asking-basic-questions-2020-9

ETA: Transcript of the townhall. Tremendous, really.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trumps-abc-news-town-hall-full-transcript/story?id=73035489

Just a snippet...
Quote
TRUMP: I'm not looking to be dishonest. I don't want people to panic. And we are going to be OK. We're going to be OK, and it is going away. And it's probably going to go away now a lot faster because of the vaccines.

It would go away without the vaccine, George, but it's going to go away a lot faster with it.

STEPHANOPOULOS: It would go away without the vaccine?

TRUMP: Sure, over a period of time. Sure, with time it goes away.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And many deaths.

TRUMP: And you'll develop -- you'll develop herd -- like a herd mentality. It's going to be -- it's going to be herd-developed, and that's going to happen. That will all happen.

But with a vaccine, I think it will go away very quickly.

STEPHANOPOULOS: We've got to take a quick break.

TRUMP: But I really believe we're rounding the corner, and I believe that strongly.

STEPHANOPOULOS: As you know, Dr. Fauci disagrees with that.

TRUMP: Well, I mean, but a lot of people do agree with me. You look at Scott Atlas, you look at some of the other doctors that are highly -- from Stanford. Look at some of the other doctors. They think maybe we could have done that from the beginning.

I think we did it exactly right. We closed it up, now we're opening. And we're opening up to a super V because the numbers are fantastic, the employment numbers. You look at...we hired 10.4 million jobs in four months. That's a record by far.

We have every record. Retail sales are through the roof. We have every record. We did the right thing. If we didn't close it up, I believe we'd have two million, two and a half million, maybe three million deaths.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 01:52:03 PM by Glenstache »

ysette9

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4155 on: September 16, 2020, 01:46:20 PM »
So there’s this... 
While historical wildfires rage across the western US, POTUS again questions climate science:

Although 2020 is on track to be one of the hottest years on record, the president told state and local officials in McClellan Park, Calif., that “it will start getting cooler. You just watch.”



Wade Crowfoot, California’s secretary for natural resources, objected: “I wish science agreed with you.”
“

Well, I don’t think science knows, actually,” Trump replied.
I liked this rebuttal I saw the other day

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4156 on: September 16, 2020, 02:12:12 PM »
Of course it's going to get cooler. Winter is coming.

If I  were an English teacher, I would be taking to strong drink after reading that. Spoken English is more relaxed than written English, but omg.  And herd mentality instead of herd immunity. 

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4157 on: September 16, 2020, 02:13:44 PM »
Of course it's going to get cooler. Winter is coming.

If I  were an English teacher, I would be taking to strong drink after reading that. Spoken English is more relaxed than written English, but omg.  And herd mentality instead of herd immunity.

Have we reached critical heard mentality on this virus?  I sure hope so...

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4158 on: September 16, 2020, 02:19:40 PM »
Well Robert Redfield - CDC director - just punched a big hole in Trump's recent claim that we might have a working Covid vaccine available to the public in as little as "four weeks"

Redfield, in a hearing before the Senate, told the committee that a vaccine won't be widely available until the middle of 2021.

Let's do some quick math here.  Trump's proclaimation of "four weeks" puts us in mid October, 2020.  Redfield's statement is... ~38 weeks away.  An order of magnitude difference.

There's exaggeration and then there's just blatant lying. 

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4159 on: September 16, 2020, 02:31:41 PM »
What's it called when you use language for something other than conveying information. You use it only to signal hierarchy and social organization, without the factual content having any verifiable connection to reality?

That's not lying, that's some other thing.

Glenstache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4160 on: September 16, 2020, 02:45:53 PM »
What's it called when you use language for something other than conveying information. You use it only to signal hierarchy and social organization, without the factual content having any verifiable connection to reality?

That's not lying, that's some other thing.
It is still lying. In this case, the subgenre is gaslighting.

partgypsy

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4161 on: September 16, 2020, 02:58:11 PM »
Maybe tone, or register of language? At any rate he's definitely breaking Grices rules of (conversational language, whether intentional or not, pretty badly. Saying the weather will get cooler, it that the virus will just go away, is so vague as to be meaningless and not what the questioner asked for.https://psychology.wikia.org/wiki/Gricean_maxims
« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 03:00:07 PM by partgypsy »

PKFFW

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4162 on: September 16, 2020, 03:51:58 PM »
Liberal democracy?  From my experiences the US is one of the more conservative democracies in the world, and steadily becoming even more-so. 

In what way(s) do you see the United States as "liberal"?
Others have pretty much summed it up.  I was referring to the idea of a Liberal democracy that allows the individual freedom to vote and express oneself.

The USA as a society is, as you say, very conservative.
Fair enough... it seems the problem is with the language itself.  By using the term “generally liberal democracy” - the word ‘generally’ can be interpreted as modifying the descriptor ‘liberal’, which would shift the meaning of the phrase ‘liberal democracy.’ As in: a democracy that is generally liberal, rather than “a liberal democracy in general”.
One of the problems of how imprecise the English language is... 
thanks for the clarification.
Good point.  To me, the way I worded the sentence made the meaning perfectly clear.  I had not even considered it from the way you describe.  Now that you have, I actually agree that your interpretation of my meaning, from a grammatical standpoint, is more accurate.

Language is weird!

former player

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4163 on: September 17, 2020, 02:53:52 AM »
What's it called when you use language for something other than conveying information. You use it only to signal hierarchy and social organization, without the factual content having any verifiable connection to reality?

That's not lying, that's some other thing.
It is still lying. In this case, the subgenre is gaslighting.
There's a theory that Trump has been persuaded to stop trying to halt transmission of the virus and is instead going for herd immunity.  So 200 million more infected and a million more dead. 

In other words, Trump is not gaslighting.  He is saying what he means and doing what he says.

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4164 on: September 17, 2020, 05:08:41 AM »
What's it called when you use language for something other than conveying information. You use it only to signal hierarchy and social organization, without the factual content having any verifiable connection to reality?

That's not lying, that's some other thing.
It is still lying. In this case, the subgenre is gaslighting.
There's a theory that Trump has been persuaded to stop trying to halt transmission of the virus and is instead going for herd immunity.  So 200 million more infected and a million more dead. 

In other words, Trump is not gaslighting.  He is saying what he means and doing what he says.

It's herd mentality according to him.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4165 on: September 17, 2020, 05:32:17 AM »
Yes, he did say herd mentality.

He said he downplayed the virus to avoid mass hysteria, then he said he up played the virus...

It is everyone else's fault, not his. It is Biden's fault for not issuing a mask mandate even though he is a U.S. citizen and has no power to do so.

The virus was going to go away like a miracle. Will not listen to scientists or their warnings. Does not believe in global warming. Suggests that the forests be raked to avoid forest fires. Who are the people that will rake the millions of acres? He repeated that he told them 3 years ago that they need forest management. I wonder if he has a stockpile of rakes at FEMA?

This man has such a twisted mind. Makes me wonder if he has a special machine to spew out this garbage. How can one person make up so many stupid idiotic stories and lies every day?

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4166 on: September 17, 2020, 06:14:03 AM »
Yes, he did say herd mentality.

He said he downplayed the virus to avoid mass hysteria, then he said he up played the virus...

It is everyone else's fault, not his. It is Biden's fault for not issuing a mask mandate even though he is a U.S. citizen and has no power to do so.

The virus was going to go away like a miracle. Will not listen to scientists or their warnings. Does not believe in global warming. Suggests that the forests be raked to avoid forest fires. Who are the people that will rake the millions of acres? He repeated that he told them 3 years ago that they need forest management. I wonder if he has a stockpile of rakes at FEMA?

This man has such a twisted mind. Makes me wonder if he has a special machine to spew out this garbage. How can one person make up so many stupid idiotic stories and lies every day?

He's gifted that way? 

Glenstache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4167 on: September 17, 2020, 09:58:30 AM »
This man has such a twisted mind. Makes me wonder if he has a special machine to spew out this garbage. How can one person make up so many stupid idiotic stories and lies every day?
He spent a lifetime training for it.

MasterStache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4168 on: September 17, 2020, 11:08:38 AM »
This man has such a twisted mind. Makes me wonder if he has a special machine to spew out this garbage. How can one person make up so many stupid idiotic stories and lies every day?
He spent a lifetime training for it.
Trump is one man. Just think of how many folks listen to this garbage and think to themselves "Yep, that's my guy!" Yikes

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4169 on: September 17, 2020, 11:23:00 AM »
What's it called when you use language for something other than conveying information. You use it only to signal hierarchy and social organization, without the factual content having any verifiable connection to reality?

That's not lying, that's some other thing.
It is still lying. In this case, the subgenre is gaslighting.
There's a theory that Trump has been persuaded to stop trying to halt transmission of the virus and is instead going for herd immunity.  So 200 million more infected and a million more dead. 

In other words, Trump is not gaslighting.  He is saying what he means and doing what he says.

If only Trump had hired Scott Atlas. Then there'd really be support for this theory.

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4170 on: September 17, 2020, 12:19:39 PM »
There's a theory that Trump has been persuaded to stop trying to halt transmission of the virus and is instead going for herd immunity.  So 200 million more infected and a million more dead. 

In other words, Trump is not gaslighting.  He is saying what he means and doing what he says.

If only Trump had hired Scott Atlas. Then there'd really be support for this theory.

For those of you who don't know what talltexan is talking about, Scott Atlas is a doctor who has made a name for himself by publicly advocating for herd immunity. And Trump did in fact hire him last month as a COVID-19 advisor.

So it's not a "theory" so much as it a fact, backed up by Trump's own words and actions. He wants to push for "herd mentality".

Glenstache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4171 on: September 17, 2020, 01:10:10 PM »
There's a theory that Trump has been persuaded to stop trying to halt transmission of the virus and is instead going for herd immunity.  So 200 million more infected and a million more dead. 

In other words, Trump is not gaslighting.  He is saying what he means and doing what he says.

If only Trump had hired Scott Atlas. Then there'd really be support for this theory.

For those of you who don't know what talltexan is talking about, Scott Atlas is a doctor who has made a name for himself by publicly advocating for herd immunity. And Trump did in fact hire him last month as a COVID-19 advisor.

So it's not a "theory" so much as it a fact, backed up by Trump's own words and actions. He wants to push for "herd mentality".

This kind of reminds me of the old Pee Wee Herman routine where he falls/crashes/otherwise messes up, then gets up, dusts himself off and says, " I meant to do that." Here it is just that instead of having a lack of action be a fuck up, it is a purposeful push towards herd immunity (the path to which is full of bodies in the absence of a viable vaccine).

Meanwhile, Barr is comparing stay at home mandates to slavery.

On the topic of Barr, I thought this was pretty rich:
Quote
In an interview last week during an official trip to Chicago to discuss an anti-crime initiative, Barr said he believes the November election is the most significant of his lifetime.

“As an attorney general, I’m not supposed to get into politics. … For example, attorneys general don’t go out and campaign and so forth,” Barr told WGN radio’s John Kass.

“I think we were getting into a position where we were going to find ourselves irrevocably committed to the socialist path,” he said. “And I think if Trump loses this election that that will be the case. … I think there’s now a clear fork in the road for our country.”

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/17/william-barr-coronavirus-lockdowns-slavery-416776

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4172 on: September 17, 2020, 02:21:25 PM »
That "socialism" thing is a big part of the strategy...they're betting on people ignoring their record and believing that Trump is singlehandedly preventing the transformation of our country into New Zealand.

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4173 on: September 17, 2020, 02:32:11 PM »
That "socialism" thing is a big part of the strategy...they're betting on people ignoring their record and believing that Trump is singlehandedly preventing the transformation of our country into New Zealand.

New Zealand  . . .  hell on Earth.  :P

Glenstache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4174 on: September 17, 2020, 02:35:28 PM »
That "socialism" thing is a big part of the strategy...they're betting on people ignoring their record and believing that Trump is singlehandedly preventing the transformation of our country into New Zealand.

New Zealand  . . .  hell on Earth.  :P
May as well be Mordor.

But one of the key points I noted in the Barr quote was about AGs not campaigning followed by blatant partisan campaigning.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4175 on: September 17, 2020, 02:37:40 PM »
That "socialism" thing is a big part of the strategy...they're betting on people ignoring their record and believing that Trump is singlehandedly preventing the transformation of our country into New Zealand.

New Zealand  . . .  hell on Earth.  :P
May as well be Mordor.

But one of the key points I noted in the Barr quote was about AGs not campaigning followed by blatant partisan campaigning.

But since AGs don't campaign, whatever he said can't be campaigning, by definition.    /s

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4176 on: September 17, 2020, 02:43:20 PM »
The fact of the matter is, I don't even know how to talk to someone who thinks universal healthcare and gay marriage greater threats to core American values than eliminating due process or having federal agents kidnap people off the streets.

JLee

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4177 on: September 17, 2020, 02:46:02 PM »
The fact of the matter is, I don't even know how to talk to someone who thinks universal healthcare and gay marriage greater threats to core American values than eliminating due process or having federal agents kidnap people off the streets.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/i-dont-know-how-to-explain-to-you-that-you-should_b_59519811e4b0f078efd98440

Milizard

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4178 on: September 17, 2020, 03:28:42 PM »
Going back to the statehood argument,  I  think Puerto Rico should definitely be granted statehood. I also think Wyoming should lose statehood, and split up into adjacent  states. I would perhaps  merge Vermont and New Hampshire,  and split California into two states.  If I had my druthers, so to speak, I'd also chip away at Texas and Florida, the goal being to limit the extreme differences in population size of  states.  I just don't see the point in adding many small states.  I feel there are inefficiencies of scale there, and it's unfair to larger states to have even more smaller states getting outsized influence in the Senate.  If DC residents want better representation,  maybe the residential areas can go back Maryland (that was the state that the land came from, isn't it ?).  I don't think that it should be a new, separate state. Again,  the goal being to have the states have less variation in population, not more.

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4179 on: September 17, 2020, 04:17:52 PM »

On the topic of Barr, I thought this was pretty rich:
Quote
In an interview last week during an official trip to Chicago to discuss an anti-crime initiative, Barr said he believes the November election is the most significant of his lifetime.

“As an attorney general, I’m not supposed to get into politics. … For example, attorneys general don’t go out and campaign and so forth,” Barr told WGN radio’s John Kass.

“I think we were getting into a position where we were going to find ourselves irrevocably committed to the socialist path,” he said. “And I think if Trump loses this election that that will be the case. … I think there’s now a clear fork in the road for our country.”

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/17/william-barr-coronavirus-lockdowns-slavery-416776

"I'm not going to be political, but I'm going to hype up my boss, threaten his political opponents, and campaign for him every time I open my mouth."

Travis

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4180 on: September 17, 2020, 04:27:37 PM »
Yes, he did say herd mentality.

He said he downplayed the virus to avoid mass hysteria, then he said he up played the virus...

It is everyone else's fault, not his. It is Biden's fault for not issuing a mask mandate even though he is a U.S. citizen and has no power to do so.

The virus was going to go away like a miracle. Will not listen to scientists or their warnings.

And today its only a lot of deaths if you count "blue states." You know, the states where the majority of Americans live and Trump goes out of his way to undermine them.

nereo

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4181 on: September 17, 2020, 04:29:29 PM »
Going back to the statehood argument,  I  think Puerto Rico should definitely be granted statehood. I also think Wyoming should lose statehood, and split up into adjacent  states. I would perhaps  merge Vermont and New Hampshire,  and split California into two states.  If I had my druthers, so to speak, I'd also chip away at Texas and Florida, the goal being to limit the extreme differences in population size of  states.  I just don't see the point in adding many small states.  I feel there are inefficiencies of scale there, and it's unfair to larger states to have even more smaller states getting outsized influence in the Senate.  If DC residents want better representation,  maybe the residential areas can go back Maryland (that was the state that the land came from, isn't it ?).  I don't think that it should be a new, separate state. Again,  the goal being to have the states have less variation in population, not more.

So... basically you want to gerrymander the entire country, and the Senate?
:-P

Also, both Virginia and Maryland contributed territory to form D.C  in 1801.
However, the section which is now Old Town, Alexandria split and went back to Virginia in 1846, leaving the remainder of DC entirely on the Maryland side of the Potomac river, with the exception of a small sliver of the GW parkway (Potomac Park) n the Virginia side.

FIPurpose

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4182 on: September 17, 2020, 05:12:22 PM »
Going back to the statehood argument,  I  think Puerto Rico should definitely be granted statehood. I also think Wyoming should lose statehood, and split up into adjacent  states. I would perhaps  merge Vermont and New Hampshire,  and split California into two states.  If I had my druthers, so to speak, I'd also chip away at Texas and Florida, the goal being to limit the extreme differences in population size of  states.  I just don't see the point in adding many small states.  I feel there are inefficiencies of scale there, and it's unfair to larger states to have even more smaller states getting outsized influence in the Senate.  If DC residents want better representation,  maybe the residential areas can go back Maryland (that was the state that the land came from, isn't it ?).  I don't think that it should be a new, separate state. Again,  the goal being to have the states have less variation in population, not more.

I don't think there's really any course to take away a State's statehood. To do that, you'd have to have a state's own consent, and as long as small states continue to have outsized power in the Senate and Electoral college, they just have no incentive to do so.

The country has been playing stupid politics with Senators since its founding. And it provides Wyoming 67x more power in the senate over California. That disparity is just galling and it should absolutely disgust every American that we continue pretend that it's not completely broken.

But it's honestly the same in the 49 states as well. What's the point of any state senate chamber? What do those chambers provide? And if a state can hardly get rid of their own senate, what hope do we have of completely rewriting Article I of the constitution? Why does a state like Rhode Island need 100 legislators?

Now if the Senate were abolished, then a state like Wyoming might have a motivation to be absorbed by other states if it suits them (Perhaps they lose their oil money and becoming a part of surrounding states helps prevent tax increases). North Dakota and South Dakota might combine in order to make certain governmental efficiencies. But as it stands now, it's in everyone's interest to split states up and create as small as units as is advantageous.

sherr

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4183 on: September 17, 2020, 06:35:29 PM »
Going back to the statehood argument,  I  think Puerto Rico should definitely be granted statehood. I also think Wyoming should lose statehood, and split up into adjacent  states. I would perhaps  merge Vermont and New Hampshire,  and split California into two states.  If I had my druthers, so to speak, I'd also chip away at Texas and Florida, the goal being to limit the extreme differences in population size of  states.  I just don't see the point in adding many small states.  I feel there are inefficiencies of scale there, and it's unfair to larger states to have even more smaller states getting outsized influence in the Senate.  If DC residents want better representation,  maybe the residential areas can go back Maryland (that was the state that the land came from, isn't it ?).  I don't think that it should be a new, separate state. Again,  the goal being to have the states have less variation in population, not more.

So... basically you want to gerrymander the entire country, and the Senate?
:-P

Also, both Virginia and Maryland contributed territory to form D.C  in 1801.
However, the section which is now Old Town, Alexandria split and went back to Virginia in 1846, leaving the remainder of DC entirely on the Maryland side of the Potomac river, with the exception of a small sliver of the GW parkway (Potomac Park) n the Virginia side.

He's pretty clearly trying to un-gerrymander the entire country and the Senate.

Milizard

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4184 on: September 17, 2020, 07:18:10 PM »
Going back to the statehood argument,  I  think Puerto Rico should definitely be granted statehood. I also think Wyoming should lose statehood, and split up into adjacent  states. I would perhaps  merge Vermont and New Hampshire,  and split California into two states.  If I had my druthers, so to speak, I'd also chip away at Texas and Florida, the goal being to limit the extreme differences in population size of  states.  I just don't see the point in adding many small states.  I feel there are inefficiencies of scale there, and it's unfair to larger states to have even more smaller states getting outsized influence in the Senate.  If DC residents want better representation,  maybe the residential areas can go back Maryland (that was the state that the land came from, isn't it ?).  I don't think that it should be a new, separate state. Again,  the goal being to have the states have less variation in population, not more.

So... basically you want to gerrymander the entire country, and the Senate?
:-P

Also, both Virginia and Maryland contributed territory to form D.C  in 1801.
However, the section which is now Old Town, Alexandria split and went back to Virginia in 1846, leaving the remainder of DC entirely on the Maryland side of the Potomac river, with the exception of a small sliver of the GW parkway (Potomac Park) n the Virginia side.

He's pretty clearly trying to un-gerrymander the entire country and the Senate.
Well, she, but otherwise true.  Watching coronavirus numbers, I've become more familiar with relative populations, and this tiny states juxtaposed with the giant states just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

Of course, greed rationalizes many things, so here we are.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4185 on: September 17, 2020, 07:39:20 PM »
I guess a good thing about Trump being exposed as blatantly lying in February telling the public that Covid is 'the same as the flu' is that I hear the CDC director tell us that a vaccine won't be ready until mid-2021, then hear Trump say it'll be ready in October, and I have 100% confidence that Trump is full of $hi# and that the CDC director is doing his best to be realistic.  In fact, the true timeline might be worse, but at least it seems realistically optimistic.  I only fear that, eventually, dissenting voices won't be able to give Americans actionable information.

talltexan

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4186 on: September 17, 2020, 07:53:29 PM »
Projecting a timeline for a vaccine is just that: a projection. Are people hearing an announcement like this and believing it's a guarantee? What kinds of investments do those people buy?

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4187 on: September 17, 2020, 08:12:34 PM »
I guess a good thing about Trump being exposed as blatantly lying in February telling the public that Covid is 'the same as the flu' is that I hear the CDC director tell us that a vaccine won't be ready until mid-2021, then hear Trump say it'll be ready in October, and I have 100% confidence that Trump is full of $hi# and that the CDC director is doing his best to be realistic.  In fact, the true timeline might be worse, but at least it seems realistically optimistic.  I only fear that, eventually, dissenting voices won't be able to give Americans actionable information.

There are other reliable news sources, easily available.  CBC, BBC are obvious examples.  Of course if people ignore them, that is their choice.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4188 on: September 17, 2020, 09:53:48 PM »
I guess a good thing about Trump being exposed as blatantly lying in February telling the public that Covid is 'the same as the flu' is that I hear the CDC director tell us that a vaccine won't be ready until mid-2021, then hear Trump say it'll be ready in October, and I have 100% confidence that Trump is full of $hi# and that the CDC director is doing his best to be realistic.  In fact, the true timeline might be worse, but at least it seems realistically optimistic.  I only fear that, eventually, dissenting voices won't be able to give Americans actionable information.

There are other reliable news sources, easily available.  CBC, BBC are obvious examples.  Of course if people ignore them, that is their choice.

You seem to have missed the point.  What if the experts are watered down or silenced?  What if Dr. Fauci is either sidelined as one of many competing 'experts' or completely replaced?  I have been getting the impression that experts are now very cautious with expressing their point of view when it disagrees with Trump, because of his retribution.  And anyone with public service in mind understands that it is at least better to have a weak voice rather than no voice at all.

LennStar

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4189 on: September 18, 2020, 05:03:31 AM »
And so the Republic ends... with thunderous applause.
That sentence was the only redeeming thing for those Star Wars movies.

People laughed me off when I told them at Trumps election that he is bad because he behaves like a dictator (I probably even said Hitler), just with less eloquence.
He is an idiot, but he knows how power works and is a psychopath, ready to use this to his fullest success.

And that is all there is to him, but precisely because of this all that silencing happens. Scientist that cannot speak openly. Newspapers under attack fur reporting the truth. Breach of contracts. The things you could call class warfare (like his tax reform) - that he even manages to sell to the losers as a victory for them.
 
When students here in Germany learn about the Nazis in school, there is always one question nobody can really answer: How could this happen?

This is how.

The fact of the matter is, I don't even know how to talk to someone who thinks universal healthcare and gay marriage greater threats to core American values than eliminating due process or having federal agents kidnap people off the streets.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/i-dont-know-how-to-explain-to-you-that-you-should_b_59519811e4b0f078efd98440

Great article.
Now imagine how it must look for us "socialist" Europeans.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4190 on: September 18, 2020, 05:50:30 AM »
I guess a good thing about Trump being exposed as blatantly lying in February telling the public that Covid is 'the same as the flu' is that I hear the CDC director tell us that a vaccine won't be ready until mid-2021, then hear Trump say it'll be ready in October, and I have 100% confidence that Trump is full of $hi# and that the CDC director is doing his best to be realistic.  In fact, the true timeline might be worse, but at least it seems realistically optimistic.  I only fear that, eventually, dissenting voices won't be able to give Americans actionable information.

There are other reliable news sources, easily available.  CBC, BBC are obvious examples.  Of course if people ignore them, that is their choice.

You seem to have missed the point.  What if the experts are watered down or silenced?  What if Dr. Fauci is either sidelined as one of many competing 'experts' or completely replaced?  I have been getting the impression that experts are now very cautious with expressing their point of view when it disagrees with Trump, because of his retribution.  And anyone with public service in mind understands that it is at least better to have a weak voice rather than no voice at all.

I got your point.  My point is that there are other experts on other sources.  Plus given the presence of the US in the world, other sources also cover the US. 

I feel really sorry for your public health people.  Some of ours are really in the public eye, in a good way. 

BussoV6

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4191 on: September 18, 2020, 07:11:56 AM »
This man has such a twisted mind. Makes me wonder if he has a special machine to spew out this garbage. How can one person make up so many stupid idiotic stories and lies every day?
He spent a lifetime training for it.
Trump is one man. Just think of how many folks listen to this garbage and think to themselves "Yep, that's my guy!" Yikes

That does give one pause for thought. How is that possible? As an outsider who spends approx 20% of my year (not this year) in the USA, I know a lot of work colleagues and very very few strike me as stupid.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2020, 07:14:22 AM by BussoV6 »

ctuser1

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4192 on: September 18, 2020, 09:13:17 AM »
This man has such a twisted mind. Makes me wonder if he has a special machine to spew out this garbage. How can one person make up so many stupid idiotic stories and lies every day?
He spent a lifetime training for it.
Trump is one man. Just think of how many folks listen to this garbage and think to themselves "Yep, that's my guy!" Yikes

That does give one pause for thought. How is that possible? As an outsider who spends approx 20% of my year (not this year) in the USA, I know a lot of work colleagues and very very few strike me as stupid.

It is not stupidity. It is the frontier mindset. You take an idea to it's logical extreme, without paying attention to the naysayers or any other conflicting inputs.

When done in business/technology - that results in outsized innovation from crazy ideas.
When done in the real world - that results in what looks very much like stupidity, e.g. QAnon.

The above explains Trump followers. Trump proper is a different kind of beast altogether.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2020, 09:15:46 AM by ctuser1 »

ixtap

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4193 on: September 18, 2020, 09:34:55 AM »
This man has such a twisted mind. Makes me wonder if he has a special machine to spew out this garbage. How can one person make up so many stupid idiotic stories and lies every day?
He spent a lifetime training for it.
Trump is one man. Just think of how many folks listen to this garbage and think to themselves "Yep, that's my guy!" Yikes

That does give one pause for thought. How is that possible? As an outsider who spends approx 20% of my year (not this year) in the USA, I know a lot of work colleagues and very very few strike me as stupid.

DH often falls back to stupid, but then I ask if he really thinks his father his stupid...

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4194 on: September 18, 2020, 09:47:25 AM »
This man has such a twisted mind. Makes me wonder if he has a special machine to spew out this garbage. How can one person make up so many stupid idiotic stories and lies every day?
He spent a lifetime training for it.
Trump is one man. Just think of how many folks listen to this garbage and think to themselves "Yep, that's my guy!" Yikes

That does give one pause for thought. How is that possible? As an outsider who spends approx 20% of my year (not this year) in the USA, I know a lot of work colleagues and very very few strike me as stupid.

DH often falls back to stupid, but then I ask if he really thinks his father his stupid...

Uncomfortable answers aren't always untrue.

Glenstache

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4195 on: September 18, 2020, 09:49:21 AM »
It is more likely a comfortable ignorance rather than outright stupidity. Trump offers simple solutions and a respite from having to confront issues as nuanced or having reasons and outcomes that people don't want to think about. It also aligns with a common conceptualization of US patriotism rooted in the idea of superiority (however you want to cast that, and there are many castings by region). This is also where wedge issues become useful. If people can reduce their vote to something like abortion (not looking to derail into abortion politics, just an example), then it also become a less complicated voting decision. It is also hard to factor out the extent to which politics has become a part of cultural identity over the last 30-40 years. It is much more difficult to vote a different color of party when you have to not only take a nuanced/impartial look at positions and issues but also get over that additional emotional hurdle. People tend to be siloed voters at this point unless the choice is very stark (see Doug Jones v Roy Moore senate race).

GuitarStv

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4196 on: September 18, 2020, 09:59:26 AM »
It is more likely a comfortable ignorance rather than outright stupidity. Trump offers simple solutions and a respite from having to confront issues as nuanced or having reasons and outcomes that people don't want to think about.

It's difficult to think of a more clear sign of stupidity than a person who consciously refuses to think about hard things and instead clings to a non-sensical 'easy answer'.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4197 on: September 18, 2020, 10:05:32 AM »
@Glenstache +1 to 'comfortable ignorance' (although Trump supporters would never call it that).  There are plenty of folks around me that love waving his flag (literally) and sending the 'educated masses' into a frenzy.  They are so sure that He, and only Him, will bring back (insert singular important thing - religion, law and order, getting rid of immigrants, bringing back jobs from Chyna, guns...).  And the 'educated masses' will let it all be taken away because they have been duped by a Deep State (which uses impossible to comprehend things like Climate Change, police reform, wearing masks being effective against an invisible virus, etc.).   

Put in the right way, comfortable ignorance is quite a nice state to be in right now, even if it means your future is ever more dark and miserable.

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4198 on: September 18, 2020, 10:30:15 AM »
And so the Republic ends... with thunderous applause.


The fact of the matter is, I don't even know how to talk to someone who thinks universal healthcare and gay marriage greater threats to core American values than eliminating due process or having federal agents kidnap people off the streets.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/i-dont-know-how-to-explain-to-you-that-you-should_b_59519811e4b0f078efd98440

Great article.
Now imagine how it must look for us "socialist" Europeans.

There are a lot that can improved with our socialist european system, but I have really found a new appreciation during these last two years. I traveled around in China and southeastasia for a while and learned a lot about life in different countries. I grow up in a working class family where money sometimes was tight but mostly were they earned more then many with middle class careers. I realised during my travels that I don’t really know what it means to be poor. We have always had food on the table, went skiing as kids, lived in a house and never had to wonder if we could pay the hospital bills. I studied at the university for free and have been spending two semesters in France, one in Canada and one in Finland. I could borrow money for living expenses during my studies without ridiculous interestrates.

Now with covid I don’t see long lines to food banks on the street because there are basically no social security that doesn’t depend on the charity of others. We do have food banks though because no system is perfect. The pandemic has showed weaknesses in our system, that needs fixing.

So even though I sometimes complain about the taxes, these last years have showed me that I rather pay them that live in a society that only sends their prayers to people in need.

OtherJen

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Re: Trump outrage of the day
« Reply #4199 on: September 18, 2020, 01:50:58 PM »
It is more likely a comfortable ignorance rather than outright stupidity. Trump offers simple solutions and a respite from having to confront issues as nuanced or having reasons and outcomes that people don't want to think about.

It explains why he is so popular with a subset of people who don’t have to worry about racial issues and adhere to a very literal and simplistic religious worldview. They want to be spoon-fed information that repeatedly soothes them and tells them that they are superior and can do no wrong (or if they do, their god and political party will make it all better for them).