Trump outrage of the day

[dandarc]

I'm sure many Texans think they succeeded by seceding in 1861.

[nereo]

I'm sure many Texans think they succeeded by seceding in 1861.

bah,......  darn it!  Leaving it as is, because it's funny...

[MilesTeg]

I live in BC and would prefer to remain part of Canada, so Washington, Oregon and California would need to join Canada.

Those of us in the rest of Canada would also like BC to remain part of Canada.

Can Texas become the 'Alaska' of Canada?

Only if Colorado is part of the deal.

[brandon1827]

My wife's biological mother has Canadian citizenship and has been planning to move down here at some point next year. We talked today, she said (jokingly) that if Trump wins she's going to stay put a while longer...and said we should move up there instead. We all laughed...but the more I think about it, the better it sounds

[scottish]

The west coast and northeast states can split off and join Canada to become the new world superpower.

Nice idea. The population of the proposed regions in what is now the US is about 60 millions, increasing the population of Canada to about 90 M. Enlarged Canada could send aid to the truncated United States.

This could play well for Trump, because the defection of liberal pointy heads will appeal to his base.

We could trade Alberta for those areas.  Alberta is pretty much American already.  They like oil, conservatives, guns, and polluting the environment.  :P

But we need a land connection to BC.

NWT -> Yukon -> BC

I mean, I know everyone hates the north but can't we just go around?

Northern routes are more difficult.  I'm sure some of the First Nations in Alberta would expect to have a say.  The Cree did with Quebec. 

Oops, we are sounding almost serious.

Everyone hates the north? I love the north. We gotta keep Alberta, they provide good diversity and differences of opinion which is healthy. Plus the whole anti-environmental piece is overplayed, in general I've always found that Albertans are passionate about the environment but they also recognize that their provinces economy relies on oil right now. There's lots of initiatives happening to shift that reliance but they won't do it overnight, nor should they. Let's not get down on our fellow Albertans.

Yeah, no way are we giving up the rockies to those wascally wexiteers.     Alberta isn't even the west, it's part of the prairies!

[lemanfan]

Interesting turn to the conversation. I work with veterans, and speaking to a veteran the other day he brought up his concerns.  That he served abroad in a number of third world countries (listing a whole list of countries) that had authoritarian governments and poor civil rights (soldiers walking in the street with rifles). Each time he served and came back he was thankful to be in the US and back home and safe. He never thought he'd say this, but changes to the US remind him of what he saw in those third world countries...

Did he say anything more specific about which US changes that made him say this?

He didn't get into details but he did mention military open carrying on the streets. As an employee I'm not actually supposed to talk about politics. I listen but I don't expand on those conversations. I do think it's interesting in that he had more experience than most what it's like to live in those countries, and he feels the US is moving in that direction.

OK,  thanks.

[Turkey Leg]

Every time I click the orange NEW button on this "Trump outrage of the day" thread on my Notifications page to see new posts, I'm always a little peeved this thread isn't named more properly "Trump outrage of the hour" (or even "Trump outrage of the minute").

Maybe the original author could rename it? :)

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

Interesting turn to the conversation. I work with veterans, and speaking to a veteran the other day he brought up his concerns.  That he served abroad in a number of third world countries (listing a whole list of countries) that had authoritarian governments and poor civil rights (soldiers walking in the street with rifles). Each time he served and came back he was thankful to be in the US and back home and safe. He never thought he'd say this, but changes to the US remind him of what he saw in those third world countries...

Some of those third world countries used to be very like the USA. Iraq was a normal country until the 70s. Had they not had Saddam, they might ave progressed along a very different path. https://www.businessinsider.com.au/amazing-pictures-of-peaceful-iraq-2014-6

You know those sci fi movies you see about massive disruptions in social order (zombies or aliens usually) that result in previously normal citizens fighting in the streets and living a subsistence lifestyle while fighting for their planet? That's basically reality in Iraq,  Afghanistan etc .... Americas love to think they're special somehow, but if you think Trump can't reduce your country to something resembling Afghanistan, you're dreaming. You've already got cities that are battlegrounds after dark, and the plague running rampant. If you think Trump can't pull off full dictator for life if you vote him in again, if you trust in checks and balances in the system, you're in for a rude awakening.

[former player]

Interesting turn to the conversation. I work with veterans, and speaking to a veteran the other day he brought up his concerns.  That he served abroad in a number of third world countries (listing a whole list of countries) that had authoritarian governments and poor civil rights (soldiers walking in the street with rifles). Each time he served and came back he was thankful to be in the US and back home and safe. He never thought he'd say this, but changes to the US remind him of what he saw in those third world countries...

Some of those third world countries used to be very like the USA. Iraq was a normal country until the 70s. Had they not had Saddam, they might ave progressed along a very different path. https://www.businessinsider.com.au/amazing-pictures-of-peaceful-iraq-2014-6

You know those sci fi movies you see about massive disruptions in social order (zombies or aliens usually) that result in previously normal citizens fighting in the streets and living a subsistence lifestyle while fighting for their planet? That's basically reality in Iraq,  Afghanistan etc .... Americas love to think they're special somehow, but if you think Trump can't reduce your country to something resembling Afghanistan, you're dreaming. You've already got cities that are battlegrounds after dark, and the plague running rampant. If you think Trump can't pull off full dictator for life if you vote him in again, if you trust in checks and balances in the system, you're in for a rude awakening.

This is true.

What has been shocking to me over the last three and a half years is how ineffective the American legal system has been at ensuring that the government, and Trump as an individual, obey the law.  The courts have actively prevented anyone from enforcing the Emoluments Clause, clearly breached by Trump and his administration.   The courts have allowed Trump to make a mockery of Congressional powers of investigation by refusing timely enforcement of its subpoenas.  The courts have allowed Trump to escape justice for his personal criminal acts by enabling him to continually delay proceedings.     Going by past and current actions of the courts they will continue to prevent any effective action towards enforcing free and fair elections in November.  It has been a shocking and systemic failure of the American legal system, and without an effective legal system, which the US obviously does not have, you do not have a democracy.  Elections do not make a democracy, what makes a democracy is that the leaders who have been elected obey the laws.  If an elected leader does not obey the law all voters have done is choose which dictator they live under.

[talltexan]

Indeed we have put ourselves into quite a predicament in which

1. The President has so much authority that following the law seems to be basically optional (and--for this one--breaking it is celebrated), and
2. Aside from maybe a six week period in 2001, no President has been treated as legitimate by the opposition in Congress in nearly 30 years.

[GuitarStv]

Interesting turn to the conversation. I work with veterans, and speaking to a veteran the other day he brought up his concerns.  That he served abroad in a number of third world countries (listing a whole list of countries) that had authoritarian governments and poor civil rights (soldiers walking in the street with rifles). Each time he served and came back he was thankful to be in the US and back home and safe. He never thought he'd say this, but changes to the US remind him of what he saw in those third world countries...

Some of those third world countries used to be very like the USA. Iraq was a normal country until the 70s. Had they not had Saddam, they might ave progressed along a very different path. https://www.businessinsider.com.au/amazing-pictures-of-peaceful-iraq-2014-6

You know those sci fi movies you see about massive disruptions in social order (zombies or aliens usually) that result in previously normal citizens fighting in the streets and living a subsistence lifestyle while fighting for their planet? That's basically reality in Iraq,  Afghanistan etc .... Americas love to think they're special somehow, but if you think Trump can't reduce your country to something resembling Afghanistan, you're dreaming. You've already got cities that are battlegrounds after dark, and the plague running rampant. If you think Trump can't pull off full dictator for life if you vote him in again, if you trust in checks and balances in the system, you're in for a rude awakening.

This is true.

What has been shocking to me over the last three and a half years is how ineffective the American legal system has been at ensuring that the government, and Trump as an individual, obey the law.  The courts have actively prevented anyone from enforcing the Emoluments Clause, clearly breached by Trump and his administration.   The courts have allowed Trump to make a mockery of Congressional powers of investigation by refusing timely enforcement of its subpoenas.  The courts have allowed Trump to escape justice for his personal criminal acts by enabling him to continually delay proceedings.     Going by past and current actions of the courts they will continue to prevent any effective action towards enforcing free and fair elections in November.  It has been a shocking and systemic failure of the American legal system, and without an effective legal system, which the US obviously does not have, you do not have a democracy.  Elections do not make a democracy, what makes a democracy is that the leaders who have been elected obey the laws.  If an elected leader does not obey the law all voters have done is choose which dictator they live under.

Best to remember this the next time you hear someone bitching about 'legislating from the bench' and how liberal judges are always doing it to poor defenceless conservatives.

[bacchi]

Interesting turn to the conversation. I work with veterans, and speaking to a veteran the other day he brought up his concerns.  That he served abroad in a number of third world countries (listing a whole list of countries) that had authoritarian governments and poor civil rights (soldiers walking in the street with rifles). Each time he served and came back he was thankful to be in the US and back home and safe. He never thought he'd say this, but changes to the US remind him of what he saw in those third world countries...

Some of those third world countries used to be very like the USA. Iraq was a normal country until the 70s. Had they not had Saddam, they might ave progressed along a very different path. https://www.businessinsider.com.au/amazing-pictures-of-peaceful-iraq-2014-6

You know those sci fi movies you see about massive disruptions in social order (zombies or aliens usually) that result in previously normal citizens fighting in the streets and living a subsistence lifestyle while fighting for their planet? That's basically reality in Iraq,  Afghanistan etc .... Americas love to think they're special somehow, but if you think Trump can't reduce your country to something resembling Afghanistan, you're dreaming. You've already got cities that are battlegrounds after dark, and the plague running rampant. If you think Trump can't pull off full dictator for life if you vote him in again, if you trust in checks and balances in the system, you're in for a rude awakening.

This is true.

What has been shocking to me over the last three and a half years is how ineffective the American legal system has been at ensuring that the government, and Trump as an individual, obey the law.  The courts have actively prevented anyone from enforcing the Emoluments Clause, clearly breached by Trump and his administration.   The courts have allowed Trump to make a mockery of Congressional powers of investigation by refusing timely enforcement of its subpoenas.  The courts have allowed Trump to escape justice for his personal criminal acts by enabling him to continually delay proceedings.     Going by past and current actions of the courts they will continue to prevent any effective action towards enforcing free and fair elections in November.  It has been a shocking and systemic failure of the American legal system, and without an effective legal system, which the US obviously does not have, you do not have a democracy.  Elections do not make a democracy, what makes a democracy is that the leaders who have been elected obey the laws.  If an elected leader does not obey the law all voters have done is choose which dictator they live under.

Yeah, it's really showing us the holes in our system.

Can't get your appointees confirmed? Just make them "Acting" department heads for your entire 4 years! (Yes, there is a limit of 210 days but it can -- obviously -- be extended.)

[Dancin'Dog]

Trump may be the shittiest president ever, but he's one hell of a good criminal! 

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

Oh, come on. Big american corporates have been riding rough-shod over the spirit of law, and anyone who gets in their way, for decades. Trump isn't exposing holes in your legal system, he's just using the same ones he's used forever in business, in his new role. The guy was an arsehole long before he ever became president, and that's the main issue - your presidency kind of relies on the honour system. It assumes that whomever is president is acting in the interests of the country. There's nothing to stop an american president from doing whatever the hell he wants, as Trump has shown. Actually, Trump has been fairly restrained. I mean, he's only violated international agreements, pissed off other world leaders, crawled up Putin's arse, sided with dictators killing their detractors inside embassies, fired anyone who disagrees with him, that sort of thing. He hasn't actually aimed nukes at people who won't tell him he's a good guy, and he could. What will you actually do if he won't leave the Whitehouse if voted out? The military have already said they won't get involved. They won't actually haul him out. You'll have to resort to the courts. Trump will love that.

[rocketpj]

Just in case you were thinking everything is fine:

Roger Stone, whose 40-month prison sentence for lying to Congress and witness tampering in the Russia investigation was commuted by Donald Trump, has said Trump should seize total power and jail prominent figures including Bill and Hillary Clinton and Mark Zuckerberg if he loses to Joe Biden in November.

...

Stone also said: “The ballots in Nevada on election night should be seized by federal marshals and taken from the state. They are completely corrupted. No votes should be counted from the state of Nevada if that turns out to be the provable case. Send federal marshals to the Clark county board of elections, Mr President!”

Nice dream of a country you had there.  Last chance...

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

Just in case you were thinking everything is fine:

Roger Stone, whose 40-month prison sentence for lying to Congress and witness tampering in the Russia investigation was commuted by Donald Trump, has said Trump should seize total power and jail prominent figures including Bill and Hillary Clinton and Mark Zuckerberg if he loses to Joe Biden in November.

...

Stone also said: “The ballots in Nevada on election night should be seized by federal marshals and taken from the state. They are completely corrupted. No votes should be counted from the state of Nevada if that turns out to be the provable case. Send federal marshals to the Clark county board of elections, Mr President!”

Nice dream of a country you had there.  Last chance...

Even if Trump IS voted out AND actually goes, the US has a thorn in their side for the foreseeable. It isn't as though he will stop tweeting and generally being a pain in the arse. In fact, he will probably end up being the center of an extremely damaging faction that will attempt to corrupt, undermine and stir public opinion whenever possible. Even if you find some reason to get him into prison, the rest of the clan will still be just as active. Get rid of them all and start over, I think.

[Plina]

Oh, come on. Big american corporates have been riding rough-shod over the spirit of law, and anyone who gets in their way, for decades. Trump isn't exposing holes in your legal system, he's just using the same ones he's used forever in business, in his new role. The guy was an arsehole long before he ever became president, and that's the main issue - your presidency kind of relies on the honour system. It assumes that whomever is president is acting in the interests of the country. There's nothing to stop an american president from doing whatever the hell he wants, as Trump has shown. Actually, Trump has been fairly restrained. I mean, he's only violated international agreements, pissed off other world leaders, crawled up Putin's arse, sided with dictators killing their detractors inside embassies, fired anyone who disagrees with him, that sort of thing. He hasn't actually aimed nukes at people who won't tell him he's a good guy, and he could. What will you actually do if he won't leave the Whitehouse if voted out? The military have already said they won't get involved. They won't actually haul him out. You'll have to resort to the courts. Trump will love that.

After a while, he will probably want to play golf so he will have to leave the White house. And what would hinder the new president from coming to the White house and throwing him out? Would secret service or other protection details actually hinder the new president? Why would they hinder there new boss?

[LennStar]

Just in case you were thinking everything is fine:

Roger Stone, whose 40-month prison sentence for lying to Congress and witness tampering in the Russia investigation was commuted by Donald Trump, has said Trump should seize total power and jail prominent figures including Bill and Hillary Clinton and Mark Zuckerberg if he loses to Joe Biden in November.

...

Stone also said: “The ballots in Nevada on election night should be seized by federal marshals and taken from the state. They are completely corrupted. No votes should be counted from the state of Nevada if that turns out to be the provable case. Send federal marshals to the Clark county board of elections, Mr President!”

Nice dream of a country you had there.  Last chance...

Even if Trump IS voted out AND actually goes, the US has a thorn in their side for the foreseeable. It isn't as though he will stop tweeting and generally being a pain in the arse. In fact, he will probably end up being the center of an extremely damaging faction that will attempt to corrupt, undermine and stir public opinion whenever possible. Even if you find some reason to get him into prison, the rest of the clan will still be just as active. Get rid of them all and start over, I think.

Lenin, Mao and now AnnaGrowsAMustache?

I have always found it puzzling that while most Americans feel a deep hatred toward Communism (or what they think it is and what they label Socialism), but never ever seem worried about the reasons for those revolutions. Except when they press to create those reasons, of course.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

Just in case you were thinking everything is fine:

Roger Stone, whose 40-month prison sentence for lying to Congress and witness tampering in the Russia investigation was commuted by Donald Trump, has said Trump should seize total power and jail prominent figures including Bill and Hillary Clinton and Mark Zuckerberg if he loses to Joe Biden in November.

...

Stone also said: “The ballots in Nevada on election night should be seized by federal marshals and taken from the state. They are completely corrupted. No votes should be counted from the state of Nevada if that turns out to be the provable case. Send federal marshals to the Clark county board of elections, Mr President!”

Nice dream of a country you had there.  Last chance...

Even if Trump IS voted out AND actually goes, the US has a thorn in their side for the foreseeable. It isn't as though he will stop tweeting and generally being a pain in the arse. In fact, he will probably end up being the center of an extremely damaging faction that will attempt to corrupt, undermine and stir public opinion whenever possible. Even if you find some reason to get him into prison, the rest of the clan will still be just as active. Get rid of them all and start over, I think.

Lenin, Mao and now AnnaGrowsAMustache?

I have always found it puzzling that while most Americans feel a deep hatred toward Communism (or what they think it is and what they label Socialism), but never ever seem worried about the reasons for those revolutions. Except when they press to create those reasons, of course.

Yeah, I'm not american. I'm from NZ. We're a socialist, nanny-state country.

[RetiredAt63]

Just in case you were thinking everything is fine:

Roger Stone, whose 40-month prison sentence for lying to Congress and witness tampering in the Russia investigation was commuted by Donald Trump, has said Trump should seize total power and jail prominent figures including Bill and Hillary Clinton and Mark Zuckerberg if he loses to Joe Biden in November.

...

Stone also said: “The ballots in Nevada on election night should be seized by federal marshals and taken from the state. They are completely corrupted. No votes should be counted from the state of Nevada if that turns out to be the provable case. Send federal marshals to the Clark county board of elections, Mr President!”

Nice dream of a country you had there.  Last chance...

Even if Trump IS voted out AND actually goes, the US has a thorn in their side for the foreseeable. It isn't as though he will stop tweeting and generally being a pain in the arse. In fact, he will probably end up being the center of an extremely damaging faction that will attempt to corrupt, undermine and stir public opinion whenever possible. Even if you find some reason to get him into prison, the rest of the clan will still be just as active. Get rid of them all and start over, I think.

Lenin, Mao and now AnnaGrowsAMustache?

I have always found it puzzling that while most Americans feel a deep hatred toward Communism (or what they think it is and what they label Socialism), but never ever seem worried about the reasons for those revolutions. Except when they press to create those reasons, of course.

Yeah, I'm not american. I'm from NZ. We're a socialist, nanny-state country.

With a Prime Minister who pulled people together during the pandemic.  Of course you have higher standards for politicians.

[Plina]

Just in case you were thinking everything is fine:

Roger Stone, whose 40-month prison sentence for lying to Congress and witness tampering in the Russia investigation was commuted by Donald Trump, has said Trump should seize total power and jail prominent figures including Bill and Hillary Clinton and Mark Zuckerberg if he loses to Joe Biden in November.

...

Stone also said: “The ballots in Nevada on election night should be seized by federal marshals and taken from the state. They are completely corrupted. No votes should be counted from the state of Nevada if that turns out to be the provable case. Send federal marshals to the Clark county board of elections, Mr President!”

Nice dream of a country you had there.  Last chance...

Even if Trump IS voted out AND actually goes, the US has a thorn in their side for the foreseeable. It isn't as though he will stop tweeting and generally being a pain in the arse. In fact, he will probably end up being the center of an extremely damaging faction that will attempt to corrupt, undermine and stir public opinion whenever possible. Even if you find some reason to get him into prison, the rest of the clan will still be just as active. Get rid of them all and start over, I think.

Lenin, Mao and now AnnaGrowsAMustache?

I have always found it puzzling that while most Americans feel a deep hatred toward Communism (or what they think it is and what they label Socialism), but never ever seem worried about the reasons for those revolutions. Except when they press to create those reasons, of course.

Yeah, I'm not american. I'm from NZ. We're a socialist, nanny-state country.

With a Prime Minister who pulled people together during the pandemic.  Of course you have higher standards for politicians.

She is a good nanny! ;-)

[rocketpj]

With a Prime Minister who pulled people together during the pandemic.  Of course you have higher standards for politicians.

The funny part is that I would actually like to have a beer with the NZ Prime Minister.

[ysette9]

And this isn’t the first disaster where she has had to prove herself a competent and empathetic leader.

Sigh. So jealous.

[Kris]

And this isn’t the first disaster where she has had to prove herself a competent and empathetic leader.

Sigh. So jealous.

Yeah, we have some American friends who moved to NZ about five years ago for work. They love it there and say they are never coming back. We’re so envious that they live in a beautiful place full of non-crazy people and good, decent leadership. Siiiiiighhh...

[GuitarStv]

And this isn’t the first disaster where she has had to prove herself a competent and empathetic leader.

Sigh. So jealous.

Yeah, we have some American friends who moved to NZ about five years ago for work. They love it there and say they are never coming back. We’re so envious that they live in a beautiful place full of non-crazy people and good, decent leadership. Siiiiiighhh...

From my experience, the majority of Americans are non-crazy . . . and there are plenty of beautiful places in the US.  But man, the crazies are really good at taking up attention, and somehow they managed to get one of their own elected last time.

[RetiredAt63]

And this isn’t the first disaster where she has had to prove herself a competent and empathetic leader.

Sigh. So jealous.

Yeah, we have some American friends who moved to NZ about five years ago for work. They love it there and say they are never coming back. We’re so envious that they live in a beautiful place full of non-crazy people and good, decent leadership. Siiiiiighhh...

From my experience, the majority of Americans are non-crazy . . . and there are plenty of beautiful places in the US.  But man, the crazies are really good at taking up attention, and somehow they managed to get one of their own elected last time.

And it's catching.  Did you see the news about the protest March in Montreal?  All the crazy stuff, QAnon, 5G, international coup theories, and on and on.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

And this isn’t the first disaster where she has had to prove herself a competent and empathetic leader.

Sigh. So jealous.

To be fair, the previous one, John Key, had a massive earthquake to deal with and he was pretty good, also. And Helen Clark, before him, was also amazing. I still think we should have voted Helen to be Queen. I think it's all in the branding. For example, our PM isn't especially well paid, they're constantly challenged, and they're expected to answer to the people. They work for us. That attracts a certain type of person. Your Pres is 'leader of the free world'. That attracts another sort of person. Same with our police - our current recruiting campaign is 'get better work stories'. That tends not to attract the power hungry hero type!

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

And this isn’t the first disaster where she has had to prove herself a competent and empathetic leader.

Sigh. So jealous.

Yeah, we have some American friends who moved to NZ about five years ago for work. They love it there and say they are never coming back. We’re so envious that they live in a beautiful place full of non-crazy people and good, decent leadership. Siiiiiighhh...

From my experience, the majority of Americans are non-crazy . . . and there are plenty of beautiful places in the US.  But man, the crazies are really good at taking up attention, and somehow they managed to get one of their own elected last time.

I think the majority of Americans have a very us-and-them mentality. Maybe it comes from having had a civil war. 'Them' could be immigrants, or democrats, or unemployed, or the taliban or even canadians. It's always an us-and-them thing in their thinking. It's kind of part of the superior mindset, america is the best place in the world blah, blah. I don't like it. There are plenty of decent americans here (the ones that got out!), but I still find that mindset. I think it's the rotten flaw in the american psyche. Don't get me wrong - all countries have their fatal flaw. Some of them are even acting it out right now, look at Sweden! That's america's, imo.

I'm pretty sure North Korea also blabbles on about how free they are and how they're the greatest country in the world, you know. What's obvious to outsiders looking in often isn't very obvious at all to people living it.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

With a Prime Minister who pulled people together during the pandemic.  Of course you have higher standards for politicians.

The funny part is that I would actually like to have a beer with the NZ Prime Minister.

Her partner hosts a TV fishing show. They would be the funniest couple to have over to dinner.

[Travis]

I think the majority of Americans have a very us-and-them mentality. Maybe it comes from having had a civil war. 'Them' could be immigrants, or democrats, or unemployed, or the taliban or even canadians. It's always an us-and-them thing in their thinking.

It's from being physically separated from the rest of the world. We started out overthrowing our legal guardians and taking pride in setting up shop in "untamed" frontiers as individuals, we were protected from most of Europe's colonial-era issues, and we saved the world in both wars which gave us dominion over the world's economy and political discourse. From there we've never had a reason to take a chill pill on our egos.  We've had the economic and military might to do whatever we want and the oceans to shield us from the consequences.  Until Europe can truly unify enough to give us the finger and be seen as an equal in form and function we're going to continue to treat the rest of the world like it owes us something.

[Glenstache]

And this isn’t the first disaster where she has had to prove herself a competent and empathetic leader.

Sigh. So jealous.

Yeah, we have some American friends who moved to NZ about five years ago for work. They love it there and say they are never coming back. We’re so envious that they live in a beautiful place full of non-crazy people and good, decent leadership. Siiiiiighhh...

America has many flaws. Chiefly, our geographic isolation from world wars, luck in natural resources relative to population, and (as you noted) history of internal conflict leading to a toxic American exceptionalism. The Cold War provided a lot of internal justification for unethical international meddling. Today, couple that with a shrinking/declining middle class as a result of domestic politics and a political party that can only retain power through polarization and we end up with a bad situation. America has accomplished some truly great things and some truly awful things. The resources allowing both are intertwined. The exceptionalism mindset prevents a reckoning over our long history of sins. I honestly do not have a lot of hope that we will rise to the occasion. Not in time at least.

I would happily emigrate to a sane country like NZ (that has its own flavor of issues as well) if my life allowed it. Canada seems appealing of late, and not so far away.

From my experience, the majority of Americans are non-crazy . . . and there are plenty of beautiful places in the US.  But man, the crazies are really good at taking up attention, and somehow they managed to get one of their own elected last time.

I think the majority of Americans have a very us-and-them mentality. Maybe it comes from having had a civil war. 'Them' could be immigrants, or democrats, or unemployed, or the taliban or even canadians. It's always an us-and-them thing in their thinking. It's kind of part of the superior mindset, america is the best place in the world blah, blah. I don't like it. There are plenty of decent americans here (the ones that got out!), but I still find that mindset. I think it's the rotten flaw in the american psyche. Don't get me wrong - all countries have their fatal flaw. Some of them are even acting it out right now, look at Sweden! That's america's, imo.

I'm pretty sure North Korea also blabbles on about how free they are and how they're the greatest country in the world, you know. What's obvious to outsiders looking in often isn't very obvious at all to people living it.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

I think the majority of Americans have a very us-and-them mentality. Maybe it comes from having had a civil war. 'Them' could be immigrants, or democrats, or unemployed, or the taliban or even canadians. It's always an us-and-them thing in their thinking.

It's from being physically separated from the rest of the world. We started out overthrowing our legal guardians and taking pride in setting up shop in "untamed" frontiers as individuals, we were protected from most of Europe's colonial-era issues, and we saved the world in both wars which gave us dominion over the world's economy and political discourse. From there we've never had a reason to take a chill pill on our egos.  We've had the economic and military might to do whatever we want and the oceans to shield us from the consequences.  Until Europe can truly unify enough to give us the finger and be seen as an equal in form and function we're going to continue to treat the rest of the world like it owes us something.

The 'economic and military might' is a classic example of flawed american thinking. The rest of the world does not view you as having economic might, my friend. Your healthcare and schooling are atrocious, your justice system is worse, your social safety nets are all but non-existent, shall we even talk about public health?? The average american's standard of living is not a lot to write home about. For every McMansion, there's half a dozen folk living in a trailer park in a town of 10,000 people! From my kiwi perspective, it's frickin grim. As for military might.... you've won how many wars??? You've used that 'military might' to help how many people??? Does america have a peacekeeper role anywhere?? You can't count the wars you've started and don't know how to finish..... I don't think you guys are even in our top three trading partners. You're not as important, or gifted with various mights as you think you are.

And you're not separated from the rest of the world, just saying. Canada has managed to get along with you, because they're culturally "nice". I don't know that they view you as great neighbours. I'm certain that Mexico and the rest of South America definitely view you as crappy neighbours.

I'm guessing that most of america is about to learn all this firsthand, as the imploding of the USA continues to not really impact anywhere else.... at least they would, if they could find an outward looking news channel!

[Travis]

I think the majority of Americans have a very us-and-them mentality. Maybe it comes from having had a civil war. 'Them' could be immigrants, or democrats, or unemployed, or the taliban or even canadians. It's always an us-and-them thing in their thinking.

It's from being physically separated from the rest of the world. We started out overthrowing our legal guardians and taking pride in setting up shop in "untamed" frontiers as individuals, we were protected from most of Europe's colonial-era issues, and we saved the world in both wars which gave us dominion over the world's economy and political discourse. From there we've never had a reason to take a chill pill on our egos.  We've had the economic and military might to do whatever we want and the oceans to shield us from the consequences.  Until Europe can truly unify enough to give us the finger and be seen as an equal in form and function we're going to continue to treat the rest of the world like it owes us something.

The 'economic and military might' is a classic example of flawed american thinking. The rest of the world does not view you as having economic might, my friend. Your healthcare and schooling are atrocious, your justice system is worse, your social safety nets are all but non-existent, shall we even talk about public health?? The average american's standard of living is not a lot to write home about. For every McMansion, there's half a dozen folk living in a trailer park in a town of 10,000 people! From my kiwi perspective, it's frickin grim. As for military might.... you've won how many wars??? You've used that 'military might' to help how many people??? Does america have a peacekeeper role anywhere?? You can't count the wars you've started and don't know how to finish..... I don't think you guys are even in our top three trading partners. You're not as important, or gifted with various mights as you think you are.

And you're not separated from the rest of the world, just saying. Canada has managed to get along with you, because they're culturally "nice". I don't know that they view you as great neighbours. I'm certain that Mexico and the rest of South America definitely view you as crappy neighbours.

I'm guessing that most of america is about to learn all this firsthand, as the imploding of the USA continues to not really impact anywhere else.... at least they would, if they could find an outward looking news channel!

Did I give you the impression I was defending the US' outlook on life? Apologies if the sarcasm wasn't obvious by referring to Great Britain as our 'legal guardian.'

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

I think the majority of Americans have a very us-and-them mentality. Maybe it comes from having had a civil war. 'Them' could be immigrants, or democrats, or unemployed, or the taliban or even canadians. It's always an us-and-them thing in their thinking.

It's from being physically separated from the rest of the world. We started out overthrowing our legal guardians and taking pride in setting up shop in "untamed" frontiers as individuals, we were protected from most of Europe's colonial-era issues, and we saved the world in both wars which gave us dominion over the world's economy and political discourse. From there we've never had a reason to take a chill pill on our egos.  We've had the economic and military might to do whatever we want and the oceans to shield us from the consequences.  Until Europe can truly unify enough to give us the finger and be seen as an equal in form and function we're going to continue to treat the rest of the world like it owes us something.

The 'economic and military might' is a classic example of flawed american thinking. The rest of the world does not view you as having economic might, my friend. Your healthcare and schooling are atrocious, your justice system is worse, your social safety nets are all but non-existent, shall we even talk about public health?? The average american's standard of living is not a lot to write home about. For every McMansion, there's half a dozen folk living in a trailer park in a town of 10,000 people! From my kiwi perspective, it's frickin grim. As for military might.... you've won how many wars??? You've used that 'military might' to help how many people??? Does america have a peacekeeper role anywhere?? You can't count the wars you've started and don't know how to finish..... I don't think you guys are even in our top three trading partners. You're not as important, or gifted with various mights as you think you are.

And you're not separated from the rest of the world, just saying. Canada has managed to get along with you, because they're culturally "nice". I don't know that they view you as great neighbours. I'm certain that Mexico and the rest of South America definitely view you as crappy neighbours.

I'm guessing that most of america is about to learn all this firsthand, as the imploding of the USA continues to not really impact anywhere else.... at least they would, if they could find an outward looking news channel!

Did I give you the impression I was defending the US' outlook on life? Apologies if the sarcasm wasn't obvious by referring to Great Britain as our 'legal guardian.'

Oh sorry! Sarcasm isn't obvious by text. To be fair, I sometimes miss the '/s', as well!

[partgypsy]

And this isn’t the first disaster where she has had to prove herself a competent and empathetic leader.

Sigh. So jealous.

Yeah, we have some American friends who moved to NZ about five years ago for work. They love it there and say they are never coming back. We’re so envious that they live in a beautiful place full of non-crazy people and good, decent leadership. Siiiiiighhh...

Yes I've had friends visit and I also want to visit someday. This is the thing. I want to defend us Americans. The us is a big place and there are alot of decent people. People I know regularly donate to causes, organize interesting talks and community events. Someone I know created a nonprofit to have buses running on biomass and an eco-friendly farm. The restaurant where my ex works is giving out hundreds of free meals a week. Even people I may disagree with politically or religiously do food drives and other community help. Just that, the overriding corporate structure of of creating goods and services is so strong in the US doing things any other way is pretty much nonprofitable and a labor of love. People love in addition to working with their minds and being ambitious, working with their hands, working on something that is tangible and making a decent living from it, where you can see the products you made have a local effect. and that has kind of been taken away from us and makes us a little crazy! We are are constantly pushed in the role of consumer over every other identity in our life as a human. And I see in my city, corporations coming in and mass buying of lower income houses near the city center, razing those houses to build rows of expensive houses. Regular working class people are being outbid by corporations for the American dream of home ownership. how can you fight that? I men I think we are good people but we are living in a dysfunctional system, possibly of our own making.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

And this isn’t the first disaster where she has had to prove herself a competent and empathetic leader.

Sigh. So jealous.

Yeah, we have some American friends who moved to NZ about five years ago for work. They love it there and say they are never coming back. We’re so envious that they live in a beautiful place full of non-crazy people and good, decent leadership. Siiiiiighhh...

Yes I've had friends visit and I also want to visit someday. This is the thing. I want to defend us Americans. The us is a big place and there are alot of decent people. People I know regularly donate to causes, organize interesting talks and community events. Someone I know created a nonprofit to have buses running on biomass and an eco-friendly farm. The restaurant where my ex works is giving out hundreds of free meals a week. Even people I may disagree with politically or religiously do food drives and other community help. Just that, the overriding corporate structure of of creating goods and services is so strong in the US doing things any other way is pretty much nonprofitable and a labor of love. People love in addition to working with their minds and being ambitious, working with their hands, working on something that is tangible and making a decent living from it, where you can see the products you made have a local effect. and that has kind of been taken away from us and makes us a little crazy! We are are constantly pushed in the role of consumer over every other identity in our life as a human. And I see in my city, corporations coming in and mass buying of lower income houses near the city center, razing those houses to build rows of expensive houses. Regular working class people are being outbid by corporations for the American dream of home ownership. how can you fight that? I men I think we are good people but we are living in a dysfunctional system, possibly of our own making.

There's a lot of truth in what you say about people working with their hands. I do think mass production separates people from their cultural heritage in a way, and denies people the accomplishment of physically creating something. Maybe even denies people ways of expressing themselves. I'm kind of thinking back to a time when less socially successful kids were funneled into woodwork and metal work classes. That wasn't a terrible thing. There's achievement in creating something. Even the most functional of handmade objects gives the maker something that they don't get from just buying it. There's a reason that crafting, DIY and cooking are so insanely popular. I'd kind of like to see a study that relates happiness to the overall craftiness of a country.

[RetiredAt63]

And this isn’t the first disaster where she has had to prove herself a competent and empathetic leader.

Sigh. So jealous.

Yeah, we have some American friends who moved to NZ about five years ago for work. They love it there and say they are never coming back. We’re so envious that they live in a beautiful place full of non-crazy people and good, decent leadership. Siiiiiighhh...

Yes I've had friends visit and I also want to visit someday. This is the thing. I want to defend us Americans. The us is a big place and there are alot of decent people. People I know regularly donate to causes, organize interesting talks and community events. Someone I know created a nonprofit to have buses running on biomass and an eco-friendly farm. The restaurant where my ex works is giving out hundreds of free meals a week. Even people I may disagree with politically or religiously do food drives and other community help. Just that, the overriding corporate structure of of creating goods and services is so strong in the US doing things any other way is pretty much nonprofitable and a labor of love. People love in addition to working with their minds and being ambitious, working with their hands, working on something that is tangible and making a decent living from it, where you can see the products you made have a local effect. and that has kind of been taken away from us and makes us a little crazy! We are are constantly pushed in the role of consumer over every other identity in our life as a human. And I see in my city, corporations coming in and mass buying of lower income houses near the city center, razing those houses to build rows of expensive houses. Regular working class people are being outbid by corporations for the American dream of home ownership. how can you fight that? I men I think we are good people but we are living in a dysfunctional system, possibly of our own making.

There's a lot of truth in what you say about people working with their hands. I do think mass production separates people from their cultural heritage in a way, and denies people the accomplishment of physically creating something. Maybe even denies people ways of expressing themselves. I'm kind of thinking back to a time when less socially successful kids were funneled into woodwork and metal work classes. That wasn't a terrible thing. There's achievement in creating something. Even the most functional of handmade objects gives the maker something that they don't get from just buying it. There's a reason that crafting, DIY and cooking are so insanely popular. I'd kind of like to see a study that relates happiness to the overall craftiness of a country.

Some of the happiest people I know are crafty.  Plus crafts are definitely stress relievers.  Look at al the knick knacks that say "I  knit so I don't kill people". 

[GuitarStv]

And this isn’t the first disaster where she has had to prove herself a competent and empathetic leader.

Sigh. So jealous.

Yeah, we have some American friends who moved to NZ about five years ago for work. They love it there and say they are never coming back. We’re so envious that they live in a beautiful place full of non-crazy people and good, decent leadership. Siiiiiighhh...

From my experience, the majority of Americans are non-crazy . . . and there are plenty of beautiful places in the US.  But man, the crazies are really good at taking up attention, and somehow they managed to get one of their own elected last time.

And it's catching.  Did you see the news about the protest March in Montreal?  All the crazy stuff, QAnon, 5G, international coup theories, and on and on.

Christ . . . yes.  Ample evidence (if any were needed) that no country has a lock on stupid.

[talltexan]

And this isn’t the first disaster where she has had to prove herself a competent and empathetic leader.

Sigh. So jealous.

Yeah, we have some American friends who moved to NZ about five years ago for work. They love it there and say they are never coming back. We’re so envious that they live in a beautiful place full of non-crazy people and good, decent leadership. Siiiiiighhh...

From my experience, the majority of Americans are non-crazy . . . and there are plenty of beautiful places in the US.  But man, the crazies are really good at taking up attention, and somehow they managed to get one of their own elected last time.

I suspect if you probe enough you can make almost any person reveal a core belief that is...out there. We're conditioned by society to hide these beliefs so that we can maintain social connections for survival.

[Glenstache]

Meanwhile in Henderson, NV Trump held an indoor rally without distancing and very few masks. FFS.
https://www.fox5vegas.com/news/gov-sisolak-calls-henderson-trump-rally-reckless-and-selfish-city-threatens-fine-to-venue/article_1e08fb26-f607-11ea-8190-a72a4176f5a2.html

“If you can join tens of thousands of people protesting in the streets, gamble in a casino, or burn down small businesses in riots, you can gather peacefully under the 1st Amendment to hear from the President of the United States,” campaign communications director Tim Murtaugh told The Associated Press.

Google translator output Cartman's voice saying, "Whatever! I'll do what I want." /s

[Plina]

And this isn’t the first disaster where she has had to prove herself a competent and empathetic leader.

Sigh. So jealous.

Yeah, we have some American friends who moved to NZ about five years ago for work. They love it there and say they are never coming back. We’re so envious that they live in a beautiful place full of non-crazy people and good, decent leadership. Siiiiiighhh...

We are are constantly pushed in the role of consumer over every other identity in our life as a human. And I see in my city, corporations coming in and mass buying of lower income houses near the city center, razing those houses to build rows of expensive houses. Regular working class people are being outbid by corporations for the American dream of home ownership. how can you fight that? I men I think we are good people but we are living in a dysfunctional system, possibly of our own making.

If it is not your own making, I am curious who do you consider responsible?

Corporations are made of people and I would guess most of them consider them being good people.

[RetiredAt63]

Meanwhile in Henderson, NV Trump held an indoor rally without distancing and very few masks. FFS.
https://www.fox5vegas.com/news/gov-sisolak-calls-henderson-trump-rally-reckless-and-selfish-city-threatens-fine-to-venue/article_1e08fb26-f607-11ea-8190-a72a4176f5a2.html

“If you can join tens of thousands of people protesting in the streets, gamble in a casino, or burn down small businesses in riots, you can gather peacefully under the 1st Amendment to hear from the President of the United States,” campaign communications director Tim Murtaugh told The Associated Press.

Google translator output Cartman's voice saying, "Whatever! I'll do what I want." /s

The comments, ouch.

[Glenstache]

Meanwhile in Henderson, NV Trump held an indoor rally without distancing and very few masks. FFS.
https://www.fox5vegas.com/news/gov-sisolak-calls-henderson-trump-rally-reckless-and-selfish-city-threatens-fine-to-venue/article_1e08fb26-f607-11ea-8190-a72a4176f5a2.html

“If you can join tens of thousands of people protesting in the streets, gamble in a casino, or burn down small businesses in riots, you can gather peacefully under the 1st Amendment to hear from the President of the United States,” campaign communications director Tim Murtaugh told The Associated Press.

Google translator output Cartman's voice saying, "Whatever! I'll do what I want." /s

The comments, ouch.

Such insightful comments from users such as "NevadaQTruth". 

[sherr]

I'll just leave this here, it speaks for itself. Edited for brevity.

In a Facebook Live event on Sunday, the top communications official at the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) said the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention was harboring a “resistance unit" to Trump.

The career scientists "haven’t gotten out of their sweatpants except for meetings at coffee shops” to plot “how they’re going to attack Donald Trump,” Caputo said, according to the Times. “There are scientists who work for this government who do not want America to get well, not until after Joe Biden is president.”

Caputo also warned Trump's followers to be prepared for an armed insurrection when Democratic nominee Joe Biden refuses to concede the election.

"When Donald Trump refuses to stand down at the inauguration, the shooting will begin,” Caputo said. “If you carry guns, buy ammunition, ladies and gentlemen, because it’s going to be hard to get.”

This is the simplest election in our history. Either you're for fascist shit like this and will vote for Trump, or you're not.

[talltexan]

@sherr, I think many Trump supporters don't desire the "fascism", so much as they've concluded it's a necessary price to pay to keep Democrats out of power.

[MaybeBabyMustache]

It's always so hard to choose, but sitting here in California, on day 29 of the smoke from wildfires, I'm gonna go with his comments on climate change today. Even though the northern hemisphere had the hottest summer on record and the entire west coast is alight. Nothing to see here, kids.

[rocketpj]

@sherr, I think many Trump supporters don't desire the "fascism", so much as they've concluded it's a necessary price to pay to keep Democrats out of power.

They have more or less concluded that democracy doesn't get them what they want - loosely defined as 'we always win and get to loot whatever we want'.  So they have decided to kill democracy.

Of course, they will define it was 'defending democracy' just like East Germany was the 'German Democratic Republic'.  And those of you/us who oppose are hostile to the nation and must be purged.

[bacchi]

@sherr, I think many Trump supporters don't desire the "fascism", so much as they've concluded it's a necessary price to pay to keep Democrats out of power.

On the alt-right forums, there's certainly a lot of talk about Democrats stealing the election and antifa taking over cities and Big Pharma keeping cheap medicine (e.g., hydroxy) from us. Some are serious about fighting for freedom as they discuss their guns on "Sunday Gunday."

There's also some admiration for Pinochet (!) and his helicopter "HR policy." See https://redice.tv/a/i/c/16/12/pinochet023.jpg or https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/dec/05/amazon-pulls-chile-dictatorship-death-flights-t-shirts-after-backlash.

So, yeah, there are some true fascists out there among the alt-right.

[Glenstache]

It's always so hard to choose, but sitting here in California, on day 29 of the smoke from wildfires, I'm gonna go with his comments on climate change today. Even though the northern hemisphere had the hottest summer on record and the entire west coast is alight. Nothing to see here, kids.

Yes, it is clearly going to get cooler. Just wait and see. The scientists don't really know what's going to happen. /s

Ugh. As someone who deals with climate change impacts on the science side, it is really exasperating.

[Glenstache]

If this turns out to have merit upon further investigation, I will be beyond mortified. It is reminiscent of the eugenics sterilization programs in the south.
https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/like-an-experimental-concentration-camp-whistleblower-complaint-alleges-mass-hysterectomies-at-ice-detention-center/

As if the detention centers and forced family separations were not already bad enough.