Author Topic: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!  (Read 801913 times)

arcturus

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5100 on: July 05, 2021, 05:57:20 AM »
Jan 2021 - 1.19m$
Feb 2021 - 1.23m$
Mar 2021 - 1.28m$
Apr 2021 - 1.35m$
May 2021 - 2.65m$
June 2021 - 2.61m$

Got a bit of hit in June mainly due gold price going down as well as crypto's.

753 days to Fire.

Finntastic - $750K in cash is about 15x what I have in cash....is this a statement about where you think the market is headed?
Yes it is, but I'm no expert however I do believe that we are going to see market going down by 30-40% before the end of the year. I'm planning to buy some more physical gold as well as real estate mainly in Finland which didn't take much of a hit 2008-2010 the real estate prices dropped max -1%.

Well, I hope you're wrong on the stock market, but I wish you success in your gold & real estate strategies!

itchyfeet

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5101 on: July 05, 2021, 07:59:07 PM »
I think “Top is In” posts are for another thread ;-)

But anyways…..

No point in trying to pick the market in the short term. Pretty much akin to making regular trips to the casino as your core wealth building strategy.

Sure, there is a chance you will be right in picking the top, but there is a greater chance you will be wrong.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5102 on: July 05, 2021, 08:34:42 PM »
I think “Top is In” posts are for another thread ;-)

But anyways…..

No point in trying to pick the market in the short term. Pretty much akin to making regular trips to the casino as your core wealth building strategy.

Sure, there is a chance you will be right in picking the top, but there is a greater chance you will be wrong.

He's probably right on picking his point of 'Enough' tho :)  At that point, you can be right or wrong about the top and the outcome is the same.  Of course, if you call the top and you are right, well, then that's probably a nicer place than being wrong.

As Bogleheads say - once you've won the game, you can stop playing.  I'm intrigued that we have Mustachians pushing folks to stay in the market after hitting their number, since our cohort should be far than more capable of adjusting their spending.  Why push the pedal to the metal (100% equities) for more once you're FI?

pecunia

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5103 on: July 05, 2021, 08:47:14 PM »
I think “Top is In” posts are for another thread ;-)

But anyways…..

No point in trying to pick the market in the short term. Pretty much akin to making regular trips to the casino as your core wealth building strategy.

Sure, there is a chance you will be right in picking the top, but there is a greater chance you will be wrong.

He's probably right on picking his point of 'Enough' tho :)  At that point, you can be right or wrong about the top and the outcome is the same.  Of course, if you call the top and you are right, well, then that's probably a nicer place than being wrong.

As Bogleheads say - once you've won the game, you can stop playing.  I'm intrigued that we have Mustachians pushing folks to stay in the market after hitting their number, since our cohort should be far than more capable of adjusting their spending.  Why push the pedal to the metal (100% equities) for more once you're FI?

Maybe some of these people have a little Warren Buffet in them.  They just like playing the game and they are good at it.  That Boglehead saying is a good one.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5104 on: July 05, 2021, 08:55:52 PM »
I think “Top is In” posts are for another thread ;-)

But anyways…..

No point in trying to pick the market in the short term. Pretty much akin to making regular trips to the casino as your core wealth building strategy.

Sure, there is a chance you will be right in picking the top, but there is a greater chance you will be wrong.

He's probably right on picking his point of 'Enough' tho :)  At that point, you can be right or wrong about the top and the outcome is the same.  Of course, if you call the top and you are right, well, then that's probably a nicer place than being wrong.

As Bogleheads say - once you've won the game, you can stop playing.  I'm intrigued that we have Mustachians pushing folks to stay in the market after hitting their number, since our cohort should be far than more capable of adjusting their spending.  Why push the pedal to the metal (100% equities) for more once you're FI?

Maybe some of these people have a little Warren Buffet in them.  They just like playing the game and they are good at it.  That Boglehead saying is a good one.

My favorite Boglehead saying is - understand your willingness, need, and ability to take risk.  Words to live by.

itchyfeet

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5105 on: July 06, 2021, 06:10:29 AM »
Apologies for misunderstanding the context if I did.

I can understand a decision to move ones portfolio to a more conservative setting, or to a different mix to include different assets.

However, what I read above was that the decision was being taken on a prediction that the market would drop 30%.

I believe it’s best to try and make decisions about portfolio mix independent of feelings about markets or predictions about the future which have a high probability of being wrong. I generally see my emotions and predictions as irrelevant to investing. But I am a lazy ass set and forget type. Def not a stock picker.

What is not irrelevant to investing is the fact that risk appetite will change depending on life circumstances. I 100% get that. My appetite for risk has reduced as I near FIRE so I am paying down investment loans (reducing leverage) rather than buying more stock. Feels like a sensible thing to do since “I’ve won the game”.

I also would caution the logic that because Finish real estate didn’t go down last time stocks crashed it won’t next time. Maybe??!!

But before you all hit me with “diversification is good”, I will say I have no disagreement with that. If the reasoning for the purchase off Finnish real estate was a desire to have a diversified portfolio, then no argument. If the reason is to provide shelter from an impending 30% stock correction later this year then that’s another thing. I mean what do you do at that point. Stocks are 30% cheaper. Time to buy!!! But alas you just bought a nice new Helsinki apartment. Do you sell the apartment? How do you rebalance to your target asset allocation?

arcturus

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5106 on: July 06, 2021, 06:40:36 AM »
I think “Top is In” posts are for another thread ;-)

But anyways…..

No point in trying to pick the market in the short term. Pretty much akin to making regular trips to the casino as your core wealth building strategy.

Sure, there is a chance you will be right in picking the top, but there is a greater chance you will be wrong.

He's probably right on picking his point of 'Enough' tho :)  At that point, you can be right or wrong about the top and the outcome is the same.  Of course, if you call the top and you are right, well, then that's probably a nicer place than being wrong.

As Bogleheads say - once you've won the game, you can stop playing.  I'm intrigued that we have Mustachians pushing folks to stay in the market after hitting their number, since our cohort should be far than more capable of adjusting their spending.  Why push the pedal to the metal (100% equities) for more once you're FI?

Maybe some of these people have a little Warren Buffet in them.  They just like playing the game and they are good at it.  That Boglehead saying is a good one.

I'm not at FI yes, but if I had to guess I would think that a big part of it is the "addiction" to watching the NW make significant jumps during positive market moves.  I can completely understand this and how it is tough to play it conservative when the market is running up 15% per year?   And honestly looking at the returns of the S&P500 over time, its hard to argue against a strategy that is heavily weighted towards equities and be prepared to leverage the margin account to survive significant dips (say more than 15% down), which tend to be few and far between (using history as the guide).

Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5107 on: July 06, 2021, 10:13:40 AM »
I think this is the first time on a MMM forum that I remember anyone talking about investment loans. Is this the same as buying stocks on margin??




arcturus

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5108 on: July 06, 2021, 10:22:17 AM »
I think this is the first time on a MMM forum that I remember anyone talking about investment loans. Is this the same as buying stocks on margin??

Effectively yes, but you don't need to use a margin loan just for stock purchases.  I've effectively got a line of credit against my after-tax investment holdings that can be used for any purpose up to 50% of the value of my after-tax investments.   I have not used this, but its there should I need to.  I assume others have done this???

pecunia

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5109 on: July 06, 2021, 10:28:00 AM »
I once read that the key to becoming rich is to use OPM, i.e. Other People's Money.  I guess investment loans could be an example of that.  You guys are movers and shakers and probably have some stories about how you used OPM to get rich.  The link give examples:

https://www.gobankingrates.com/money/wealth/how-to-build-wealth-using-other-peoples-money/

Yeh - I guess the world isn't run by people like me who used to go to the job every day and save money.  I could have learned a lot from people like you when I was younger.


arcturus

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5110 on: July 06, 2021, 01:03:26 PM »
I once read that the key to becoming rich is to use OPM, i.e. Other People's Money.  I guess investment loans could be an example of that.  You guys are movers and shakers and probably have some stories about how you used OPM to get rich.  The link give examples:

https://www.gobankingrates.com/money/wealth/how-to-build-wealth-using-other-peoples-money/

Yeh - I guess the world isn't run by people like me who used to go to the job every day and save money.  I could have learned a lot from people like you when I was younger.

Ha!  Not sure I qualify as a mover and a shaker!  And like I said, I personally have never tapped my Margin account.....honestly my taxable invested assets I'm sure pale in comparison to others in this forum -- somewhere between $650-700K.  For me everything else is 401(k), IRA, HSA, etc., which I don't think are margin-able.

To me, its not too much different than borrowing against the equity in your home, though.  So the idea of a margin loan is not that novel of a concept and I think most brokerages will set them up for you.  You do need to be careful, because the loan is a real $ commitment and it is secured by investments which can decline in value. 

In fact, I recall reading a post by MMM himself that he had used a Margin Loan to buy a house:

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2021/01/29/margin-loan-ibkr-review/

Not a long-term financial strategy I would advocate, but for brief periods, it seems to make sense vs selling securities at a loss or at short term capital gains rates.





itchyfeet

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5111 on: July 06, 2021, 02:30:23 PM »
When I referred to investment loan I was referring to mortgages on realestate that are not my home, referred to in Australia as investment properties.

Earlier in my journey to FIRE I felt comfortable to use other people’s money and take a risk that the return from what I did with that money would be higher than the cost of interest on those funds.

Now I’m close to FIRE I am repaying most of that debt to reduce risk.

I can say that the strategy of using other people’s money to create wealth definitely worked for me. But like others have said above, once you have won the game it’s quite natural for your appetite for risk to reduce,

secondcor521

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5112 on: July 06, 2021, 04:51:10 PM »
As Bogleheads say - once you've won the game, you can stop playing.  I'm intrigued that we have Mustachians pushing folks to stay in the market after hitting their number, since our cohort should be far than more capable of adjusting their spending.  Why push the pedal to the metal (100% equities) for more once you're FI?

I'm 52.  I use a planning horizon to age 90.  That means 38 years.

My primary goal is maximizing the probability of being able to stay FIREd and not go broke over that 38 year time frame.

So what I do is run FIREcalc with my numbers, including that 38 year figure, and look at it's investigate AA feature.  What I see is that 90%-95% stocks is the AA most likely to meet my goal.

I then also realize that I won't spend all of what I have.  The part I don't spend will go to my kids, probably in 30-40 years.  That part I invest at 100% stocks because (a) they haven't won the game yet, and (b) it's 30 years, and (c) they generally have a high capacity for risk.

I do a little math to mix my 90%-95% with their 100% and arrive at a final target of 97%.

I do it not to "play the game" but to "be as safe as possible".

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5113 on: July 06, 2021, 10:48:00 PM »
I'm sure some of, if not all would qualify as accredited investors.  What the hell that does for you I haven't a clue.  Really don't want to know. 

SwordGuy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5114 on: July 07, 2021, 11:30:47 AM »
I'm sure some of, if not all would qualify as accredited investors.  What the hell that does for you I haven't a clue.  Really don't want to know.

An accredited investor, as far as I can make it out, is allowed to risk more of their assets in certain types of business ventures than "regular folks".   The assumption is that they know what they are doing and are less likely to be (legally) defrauded of their investment funds.   
I don't want to make the kind and size of investments that I would need to be an accredited investor because why would I want to risk that much when I've already won the game?

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5115 on: July 07, 2021, 11:16:05 PM »
I'm sure some of, if not all would qualify as accredited investors.  What the hell that does for you I haven't a clue.  Really don't want to know.

An accredited investor, as far as I can make it out, is allowed to risk more of their assets in certain types of business ventures than "regular folks".   The assumption is that they know what they are doing and are less likely to be (legally) defrauded of their investment funds.   
I don't want to make the kind and size of investments that I would need to be an accredited investor because why would I want to risk that much when I've already won the game?

I'm just glad that I'm smart enough to know, that I'm not smart enough to know, shit about risky investments of the elite.

markbike528CBX

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5116 on: July 08, 2021, 07:08:22 AM »
I'm sure some of, if not all would qualify as accredited investors.  What the hell that does for you I haven't a clue.  Really don't want to know.

An accredited investor, as far as I can make it out, is allowed to risk more of their assets in certain types of business ventures than "regular folks".   The assumption is that they know what they are doing and are less likely to be (legally) defrauded of their investment funds.   
I don't want to make the kind and size of investments that I would need to be an accredited investor because why would I want to risk that much when I've already won the game?

I'm just glad that I'm smart enough to know, that I'm not smart enough to know, shit about risky investments of the elite.
I believe that all members of this thread qualify as "the elite " and also as accredited investors, including @Bateaux .

GreenEggs

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5117 on: July 08, 2021, 07:27:01 AM »
I'm sure some of, if not all would qualify as accredited investors.  What the hell that does for you I haven't a clue.  Really don't want to know.

An accredited investor, as far as I can make it out, is allowed to risk more of their assets in certain types of business ventures than "regular folks".   The assumption is that they know what they are doing and are less likely to be (legally) defrauded of their investment funds.   
I don't want to make the kind and size of investments that I would need to be an accredited investor because why would I want to risk that much when I've already won the game?

I'm just glad that I'm smart enough to know, that I'm not smart enough to know, shit about risky investments of the elite.
I believe that all members of this thread qualify as "the elite " and also as accredited investors, including @Bateaux .




I've got a feeling that there's a "secret handshake" that few of us are privy to.   

BigEasyStache

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5118 on: July 08, 2021, 07:39:47 AM »
Bateaux pretty much nailed it.  Years ago a friend of mine offered me an opportunity to invest in a start up.  In order to qualify you had to be an accredited investor.  It simply meant that your NW was > $1M.  It may be different now as that was nearly 20 years ago.  I had to provide financial proof.  What is strange is that the amount you can invest is not limited.  So once your qualified you're free to blow your entire wad if you choose. You just had to have at least $1M to start.

Another advantage for the accredited investor was that it allowed you to get an Angels Investor Credit.  In my case it was a 33% credit over 3 years. 

SwordGuy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5119 on: July 08, 2021, 09:16:54 AM »
Another advantage for the accredited investor was that it allowed you to get an Angels Investor Credit.  In my case it was a 33% credit over 3 years.

Oh, thank you for that!     I invested some money in a trucking company startup and I need to read up on this.   Might be able to structure the investment (or further investments) to take advantage of this.

pecunia

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5120 on: July 08, 2021, 12:51:46 PM »
Another advantage for the accredited investor was that it allowed you to get an Angels Investor Credit.  In my case it was a 33% credit over 3 years.

Oh, thank you for that!     I invested some money in a trucking company startup and I need to read up on this.   Might be able to structure the investment (or further investments) to take advantage of this.

I'll still say it even though it dates me.  That information may help you to Keep On Trucking.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5121 on: July 08, 2021, 01:35:47 PM »
As Bogleheads say - once you've won the game, you can stop playing.  I'm intrigued that we have Mustachians pushing folks to stay in the market after hitting their number, since our cohort should be far than more capable of adjusting their spending.  Why push the pedal to the metal (100% equities) for more once you're FI?

I'm 52.  I use a planning horizon to age 90.  That means 38 years.

My primary goal is maximizing the probability of being able to stay FIREd and not go broke over that 38 year time frame.

So what I do is run FIREcalc with my numbers, including that 38 year figure, and look at it's investigate AA feature.  What I see is that 90%-95% stocks is the AA most likely to meet my goal.

I then also realize that I won't spend all of what I have.  The part I don't spend will go to my kids, probably in 30-40 years.  That part I invest at 100% stocks because (a) they haven't won the game yet, and (b) it's 30 years, and (c) they generally have a high capacity for risk.

I do a little math to mix my 90%-95% with their 100% and arrive at a final target of 97%.

I do it not to "play the game" but to "be as safe as possible".

Just for fun, I did the same thing, using a 40 year horizon and my numbers.  As long as I have at least 5% exposure to stocks, then I have 100% success.  Not very enlightening.

So I tried a second run after carving out $2 million (e.g. donor advised fund - which makes sense to set to 100% stock).  I get something that looks like 50 - 75% stocks being optimal.

I'd be interested to know how you get a result like 100% or 95% stocks being a higher success probability than 80% stocks during drawdown.  Are you assuming you will stay in the accumulation phase during some of that retirement period, or are you using higher than 4% SWR for your money after setting the inheritance aside?

I'm running fairly simplified tests, but don't get your results unless I go to lower success rates, which typically do increase with 100% stock but also only max out at sub-90% success rate...
« Last Edit: July 08, 2021, 01:47:33 PM by EscapeVelocity2020 »

secondcor521

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5122 on: July 08, 2021, 02:24:58 PM »
As Bogleheads say - once you've won the game, you can stop playing.  I'm intrigued that we have Mustachians pushing folks to stay in the market after hitting their number, since our cohort should be far than more capable of adjusting their spending.  Why push the pedal to the metal (100% equities) for more once you're FI?

I'm 52.  I use a planning horizon to age 90.  That means 38 years.

My primary goal is maximizing the probability of being able to stay FIREd and not go broke over that 38 year time frame.

So what I do is run FIREcalc with my numbers, including that 38 year figure, and look at it's investigate AA feature.  What I see is that 90%-95% stocks is the AA most likely to meet my goal.

I then also realize that I won't spend all of what I have.  The part I don't spend will go to my kids, probably in 30-40 years.  That part I invest at 100% stocks because (a) they haven't won the game yet, and (b) it's 30 years, and (c) they generally have a high capacity for risk.

I do a little math to mix my 90%-95% with their 100% and arrive at a final target of 97%.

I do it not to "play the game" but to "be as safe as possible".

Just for fun, I did the same thing, using a 40 year horizon and my numbers.  As long as I have at least 5% exposure to stocks, then I have 100% success.  Not very enlightening.

So I tried a second run after carving out $2 million (e.g. donor advised fund - which makes sense to set to 100% stock).  I get something that looks like 50 - 75% stocks being optimal.

I'd be interested to know how you get a result like 100% or 95% stocks being a higher success probability than 80% stocks during drawdown.  Are you assuming you will stay in the accumulation phase during some of that retirement period, or are you using higher than 4% SWR for your money after setting the inheritance aside?

I'm running fairly simplified tests, but don't get your results unless I go to lower success rates, which typically do increase with 100% stock but also only max out at sub-90% success rate...

I'll describe my general process, but I have a rigid policy of not disclosing anything about assets or income publicly, so you may be left wanting a bit.

I put in my actual spending, portfolio, and 38 years on the first tab.

On the second tab, I put in my Social Security and my start year.  My SS actually covers my spending and starts in 2039.  I also put in my non-portfolio income, which is about half of my expected SS, and I start that in the current year and keep the inflation adjusted checkbox checked.

(I suspect the above entries are the key difference between my analysis and yours.)

On the portfolio tab, I put fees of 0.04% and equities at 97%, because those are my actual numbers.

With the above numbers, I get a success rate of 100%.  I then go to the investigate tab and search for the 95% success spending level, which is about twice my actual spending level.  This is to explore what my AA should look like at a modestly unsafe level, since at my actual spending level I'm 100% safe, and probably 100% safe at any AA.

I take that 95% success spending level, and change my spending on the first tab to that number, then go to the investigate tab and choose the "changing my AA" radio button.

Which leads me to one minor point that I left out - when choosing my AA based on the above, I will trade off a modest amount of safety for a much higher stock AA, because I also know from experience that higher stock AAs have higher terminal values even if the safety level is about the same, and while I mostly care about safety I also care about terminal value as I have three offspring who I'm playing for.  This is especially true since at the moment I'm only spending at about half the 95% safety level as alluded to above.

I've attached a screenshot showing that final result.  As you can see, there's a broad plateau on the right from 60% to 95% equities, with a slight drop to the right of that and a slight rise to the left.  For me the tradeoff between 55% equities at ~97% success vs. 95% equities at ~95% success is worth going to the latter.

(The math to do the mixing to get to 97% success is just some simple arithmetic in Excel based on current spending, current portfolio, and the 95% result from the above analysis.)
« Last Edit: July 08, 2021, 02:28:18 PM by secondcor521 »

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5123 on: July 08, 2021, 03:57:59 PM »
Thanks for that @secondcor521 !  I was wondering if there was some interaction between taxes and charitable giving assumptions…

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5124 on: July 08, 2021, 08:36:43 PM »
Thanks for that @secondcor521 !  I was wondering if there was some interaction between taxes and charitable giving assumptions…

What did I just read?  My eyes hurt.

secondcor521

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5125 on: July 08, 2021, 09:46:04 PM »
Thanks for that @secondcor521 !  I was wondering if there was some interaction between taxes and charitable giving assumptions…

What did I just read?  My eyes hurt.

Wait 'til I get going.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMz7JBRbmNo
« Last Edit: July 08, 2021, 09:50:27 PM by secondcor521 »

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5126 on: July 08, 2021, 10:43:12 PM »
Thanks for that @secondcor521 !  I was wondering if there was some interaction between taxes and charitable giving assumptions…

What did I just read?  My eyes hurt.

Wait 'til I get going.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMz7JBRbmNo

As long as we know what we are talking about, right?  eh??  anybody?!  Sheesh, in the end, everyone is dead again :)

arcturus

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5127 on: July 09, 2021, 01:59:24 PM »
Strong end to the week in the market!  Good to see the Russell 2000 up 2%!   Here's to another 4 years of this bull market!  Happy Friday!
« Last Edit: July 09, 2021, 02:01:15 PM by arcturus »

Simpli-Fi

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5128 on: July 09, 2021, 04:59:02 PM »
How many people in this thread are still accumulating?  I kind of enjoy the sales…^RUT down 2% on the week for next weeks purchase.

soccerluvof4

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5129 on: July 10, 2021, 04:23:21 AM »
Bateaux pretty much nailed it.  Years ago a friend of mine offered me an opportunity to invest in a start up.  In order to qualify you had to be an accredited investor.  It simply meant that your NW was > $1M.  It may be different now as that was nearly 20 years ago.  I had to provide financial proof.  What is strange is that the amount you can invest is not limited.  So once your qualified you're free to blow your entire wad if you choose. You just had to have at least $1M to start.

Another advantage for the accredited investor was that it allowed you to get an Angels Investor Credit.  In my case it was a 33% credit over 3 years.


I was invited to one that is actually this upcoming Wednesday. There are 30 invitees to raise 3M dollars and the only question asked was to select an option of monies you would be willing to invest. 0-50k, 50-100k and so on. Your NW had to be a Million dollars but it must of been assumed as the only thing that i have to sign off on is a letter of confidentiality with there Lawyer. This is a Friend of mine so to keep thing that way I would only invest on the smaller side if anything to keep it that way. Interesting to see the whole venue however as they rented a pretty fancy place for this. I will probably be the only guy without a suit there haha.

Dicey

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5130 on: July 10, 2021, 07:07:15 AM »
How many people in this thread are still accumulating?
Uh, all of us? Compound interest and investment gains are doing the heavy lifting for everyone in this group. We got to this benchmark by spending less than we earn. That continues to be the case, whether we're still drawing a paycheck or living off our investments.

arcturus

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5131 on: July 10, 2021, 07:40:33 AM »
How many people in this thread are still accumulating?  I kind of enjoy the sales…^RUT down 2% on the week for next weeks purchase.

I interpret this question to mean "actively contributing to your investment stash" versus letting compounding do all the work as @Dicey stated.   In that case, I fall into the "actively contributing" category and probably will for the next 3-4 years, albeit at a slower pace than I should/could, given some expenses that I have in getting 2 all the way thru school (1 undergrad and 1 in grad school) and I also have what I have officially deemed the world's most expensive dog :-).

pecunia

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5132 on: July 10, 2021, 07:43:28 AM »
How many people in this thread are still accumulating?
Uh, all of us? Compound interest and investment gains are doing the heavy lifting for everyone in this group. We got to this benchmark by spending less than we earn. That continues to be the case, whether we're still drawing a paycheck or living off our investments.

I may have used this herein previously:

Albert Einstein is reputed to have said, 'Compound interest is the eighth wonder of the world. He who understands it, earns it; he who doesn't, pays it.'

arcturus

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5133 on: July 10, 2021, 07:55:30 AM »
How many people in this thread are still accumulating?
Uh, all of us? Compound interest and investment gains are doing the heavy lifting for everyone in this group. We got to this benchmark by spending less than we earn. That continues to be the case, whether we're still drawing a paycheck or living off our investments.

I may have used this herein previously:

Albert Einstein is reputed to have said, 'Compound interest is the eighth wonder of the world. He who understands it, earns it; he who doesn't, pays it.'

Wow!  Never heard that quote, but I love it!  Words to live by.....

Dicey

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5134 on: July 10, 2021, 07:55:54 AM »
How many people in this thread are still accumulating?
Uh, all of us? Compound interest and investment gains are doing the heavy lifting for everyone in this group. We got to this benchmark by spending less than we earn. That continues to be the case, whether we're still drawing a paycheck or living off our investments.

I may have used this herein previously:

Albert Einstein is reputed to have said, 'Compound interest is the eighth wonder of the world. He who understands it, earns it; he who doesn't, pays it.'
I'm a huge proponent of the DPOYM Club. I think of AE's wisdom on the subject all the time. It's what helped me get over my very early (and mercifully short lived) desire to Kill.The.Mortgage.

MaybeBabyMustache

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5135 on: July 10, 2021, 07:56:42 AM »
How many people in this thread are still accumulating?  I kind of enjoy the sales…^RUT down 2% on the week for next weeks purchase.

I interpret this question to mean "actively contributing to your investment stash" versus letting compounding do all the work as @Dicey stated.   In that case, I fall into the "actively contributing" category and probably will for the next 3-4 years, albeit at a slower pace than I should/could, given some expenses that I have in getting 2 all the way thru school (1 undergrad and 1 in grad school) and I also have what I have officially deemed the world's most expensive dog :-).

We are actively contributing. We won't give up our 401ks until we stop working, as it reduces our taxable income

Bird In Hand

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5136 on: July 10, 2021, 08:43:05 AM »
How many people in this thread are still accumulating?  I kind of enjoy the sales…^RUT down 2% on the week for next weeks purchase.

I interpret this question to mean "actively contributing to your investment stash"...   In that case, I fall into the "actively contributing" category and probably will for the next 3-4 years

We are actively contributing. We won't give up our 401ks until we stop working, as it reduces our taxable income

Same, it keeps our MAGI under the Roth limits, bigger child tax credit, etc.  Also generous employer matches even if we contribute a pittance -- free money, and quite a bit of it.

SwordGuy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5137 on: July 10, 2021, 08:47:20 AM »
We're already retired, but we spend less than our passive income and the 4% rule would allow us to, so in a way we're still contributing.

We have zero intention of going back to work to contribute more. :)

G-dog

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5138 on: July 10, 2021, 09:24:52 AM »
I am retired, but still put money in my HSA (invest max I can) and have put more cash in the market (retired with lots of cash). It would have to be a really deep gully for me to put more cash in now.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5139 on: July 10, 2021, 09:31:37 AM »
I am working for 4 more years, I will continue maxing out my tax advantaged accounts, but with my move out toward dicey, I’m willing to spend the rest.  (So no active contributions to my taxable account).

Simpli-Fi

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5140 on: July 10, 2021, 09:42:33 AM »
@arcturus yes, that is how I meant the question.  I’m in your boat, I have a coast gig for benefits and maxing out tax advantaged accounts…not much leftover for after tax investing.  Planning on 29.5 more modes of this….most likely won’t hit $4M by then.

How many people in this thread are still accumulating?
We got to this benchmark by spending less than we earn. That continues to be the case, whether we're still drawing a paycheck or living off our investments.
@Dicey thanks for the personal finance lesson :rolleyes:

amberfocus

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5141 on: July 10, 2021, 10:11:24 AM »
How many people in this thread are still accumulating?

I am no longer working, so my personal stash is technically in drawdown. The SO is still working, however, so although we keep separate finances, the overall 'household' is still accumulating. If the markets cooperate, we should be (jointly) reaching 'beyond' levels in the next couple of years.

Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5142 on: July 10, 2021, 11:08:59 AM »
Hmm we're both retired but our 0.69% WR seems to be having a similar effect of actively contributing.

At least during this bull market..:)

Dicey

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5143 on: July 10, 2021, 12:43:53 PM »
@arcturus yes, that is how I meant the question.  I’m in your boat, I have a coast gig for benefits and maxing out tax advantaged accounts…not much leftover for after tax investing.  Planning on 29.5 more modes of this….most likely won’t hit $4M by then.

How many people in this thread are still accumulating?
We got to this benchmark by spending less than we earn. That continues to be the case, whether we're still drawing a paycheck or living off our investments.
@Dicey thanks for the personal finance lesson :rolleyes:
Yeah, I hope the eyeroll about the PF lesson isn't directed at me. Who the fuck doesn't keep accumulating at this stage? It's absolutely effortless. Fucking magic!

rmorris50

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Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5144 on: July 10, 2021, 12:52:01 PM »
So what makes it all real? Instead of just a bunch of numbers on a screen? If I turn off my computer does my NW really exist? Guess our house is real.

Just watching the NW grow over the past year is definitely surreal.


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Dicey

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5145 on: July 10, 2021, 01:43:35 PM »
So what makes it all real? Instead of just a bunch of numbers on a screen? If I turn off my computer does my NW really exist? Guess our house is real.

Just watching the NW grow over the past year is definitely surreal.
What your life would be like without it?

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5146 on: July 10, 2021, 01:47:31 PM »
So what makes it all real? Instead of just a bunch of numbers on a screen? If I turn off my computer does my NW really exist? Guess our house is real.

Just watching the NW grow over the past year is definitely surreal.


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I was cleaning out old paper work today.  You know how things get shoved to the back and never see daylight again.  There were printouts from 2004!  WTF.  I filled a huge trashcan with old paperwork that is now useless.  I started working in this building in 1992.  I'm on a quest to find paperwork from the 90s now.  Those papers are worthless.  What's not worthless?  The dollars I invested in1992 that are worth 10 times or more what they were then.  Yes there is inflation loss, but the investments far outpaced inflation.  I've got 22 months left to the finish line.  How did I go from the kid to the old guy?

G-dog

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5147 on: July 10, 2021, 01:48:09 PM »
So what makes it all real? Instead of just a bunch of numbers on a screen? If I turn off my computer does my NW really exist? Guess our house is real.

Just watching the NW grow over the past year is definitely surreal.


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The shares you own are real.  If you turn iff your computer the shares (and electrons) are still there. When you turn off the lights do your other possessions actually disappear / dematerialize?

The growth definitely feels unreal to me, but it keeps working so no complaints (yes, I have gone through some big stock market falls too).

rmorris50

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5148 on: July 10, 2021, 02:46:45 PM »
So what makes it all real? Instead of just a bunch of numbers on a screen? If I turn off my computer does my NW really exist? Guess our house is real.

Just watching the NW grow over the past year is definitely surreal.
What your life would be like without it?
This is actually a loaded question. Because that would mean I would have made completely different life choices in the first place :-)

But that is an excellent answer to put things in perspective!


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rmorris50

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #5149 on: July 10, 2021, 02:49:41 PM »
So what makes it all real? Instead of just a bunch of numbers on a screen? If I turn off my computer does my NW really exist? Guess our house is real.

Just watching the NW grow over the past year is definitely surreal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The shares you own are real.  If you turn iff your computer the shares (and electrons) are still there. When you turn off the lights do your other possessions actually disappear / dematerialize?

The growth definitely feels unreal to me, but it keeps working so no complaints (yes, I have gone through some big stock market falls too).
Maybe they do, and maybe they rematerialize when the lights come on.


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