Author Topic: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!  (Read 193300 times)

soccerluvof4

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #950 on: May 01, 2019, 04:07:11 AM »
Well done! Exflyboy!!

bigchrisb

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #951 on: May 01, 2019, 12:10:36 PM »
We could be like Australia and avoid a recession for 20 years if the economy is managed properly.

Hmmmmm - That almost sounds like a controlled economy from the top down.  The USSR used to manage their economy and it never really took off.  How could you do it?  How did the Aussies do it?

A fair bit of luck was involved (China boom consuming so much iron ore) and a few good decisions (floating dollar, removing tariffs etc). Also, keeping immigration fairly high also keeps the economy growing as all the new peeps need to consume too.
A fair bit of luck with two commodities booms and a generation long housing boom.  A lot of deregulation of industries, removal of tariffs, industrial relations reform and removal of pattern bargaining, floating the exchange rate to name a few were key, and often lost in today's political discourse.  Net migration is critical too - over the last three decades of growth net migration has averaged about 1.5% per year, about three times that of the USA or the UK.

We have also done a lot of it with debt fueled expansion - even with GDP growing continuously over the last three decades, household debt to GDP is now three times what it was in 1990.  Mostly spent on rampant residential real estate prices.

The last major economic reform undertaken here was the introduction of GST in 2000.  Since then, both sides of politics have done little on economic reform, while we have been lucky with several commodities booms and a debt fueled residential property boom keeping things running.  With the tailwind of those old reforms pretty much exhausted, and easier debt/monetary policy unlikely, my personal feeling is that Australia is headed towards some hard times.  With most working adults never having experienced a recession, some hard times are probably necessary to be able to implement unpopular reform policy.

I maintain a home country investment bias, but have been tilting further to international assets, and in particular limiting exposure to Australian residential real estate.

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #952 on: May 01, 2019, 03:46:06 PM »
So work, for the first time in a long time is pissing me off.  The past week wasn't a good one.   Who's this guy?  Posting way back then?

we crossed the 1mm mark last year and are completely debt free.   I plan to retire in 2018 with about 2 mm.  I dont know what we will do then.  Maybe cruise on a sailboat.

Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #953 on: May 01, 2019, 03:59:26 PM »
So work, for the first time in a long time is pissing me off.  The past week wasn't a good one.   Who's this guy?  Posting way back then?

we crossed the 1mm mark last year and are completely debt free.   I plan to retire in 2018 with about 2 mm.  I dont know what we will do then.  Maybe cruise on a sailboat.


So why are you still at work then?

« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 04:01:25 PM by Exflyboy »

pecunia

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #954 on: May 01, 2019, 06:45:48 PM »

- SNIP -


So why are you still at work then?

That is a question many of us are pondering at frequent intervals.  For me, health care will be easier if I hang on until year's end.

Tick, tick, tick and I am selling off little pieces of my life.

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #955 on: May 01, 2019, 10:11:47 PM »

- SNIP -


So why are you still at work then?

That is a question many of us are pondering at frequent intervals.  For me, health care will be easier if I hang on until year's end.

Tick, tick, tick and I am selling off little pieces of my life.

Yep, health insurance still keeps me there for now.  That and some home improvements I want to make.
What's amazing is the calculations just running simple numbers predicted.  That was five yeas ago and I'd just surpassed a million net worth.  I'd just started posting on MMM at the time.  I'd estimated somewhere 2 million net worth for 2018.  I now have twice the money that I had then.  Which is the money I'd predicted I'd have now.   The difference is how my brain perceived 2 million dollars then and now.  That me figured 2 million would be plenty.  That me probably was thinking, about all the chance circumstances that could wipe me out.  Why does this me still have doubts?  The calculations are the same.  FIRECalc give me a 100 percent prediction on retirement sucess, yet I'll be working night shift this weekend.

One

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #956 on: May 01, 2019, 11:06:44 PM »
Probably better to retire now. More time to exercise, less stress to prevent the heart attack.

deborah

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #957 on: May 02, 2019, 03:06:04 AM »

- SNIP -


So why are you still at work then?

That is a question many of us are pondering at frequent intervals.  For me, health care will be easier if I hang on until year's end.

Tick, tick, tick and I am selling off little pieces of my life.

Yep, health insurance still keeps me there for now.  That and some home improvements I want to make.
What's amazing is the calculations just running simple numbers predicted.  That was five yeas ago and I'd just surpassed a million net worth.  I'd just started posting on MMM at the time.  I'd estimated somewhere 2 million net worth for 2018.  I now have twice the money that I had then.  Which is the money I'd predicted I'd have now.   The difference is how my brain perceived 2 million dollars then and now.  That me figured 2 million would be plenty.  That me probably was thinking, about all the chance circumstances that could wipe me out.  Why does this me still have doubts?  The calculations are the same.  FIRECalc give me a 100 percent prediction on retirement sucess, yet I'll be working night shift this weekend.
Just do it.

You have proved that you're pretty good at predicting outcomes.
You have proved that you can follow a financial plan, and not derail yourself.
You have proved that you're a saver rather than a spender.
You have also amassed enough that it's not going to be destroyed by pretty much any event.

What more do you actually need?

Car Jack

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #958 on: May 02, 2019, 08:35:58 AM »
So why are you still at work then?

Everyone will have their own reasons.  For me, health insurance costs and college.  DW and I firmly believe in providing education for our sons and aside from Stafford loans pay the entire amount.  Currently, DS#1 will take some summer courses to finish his BSCivE and then enter state university for Masters because the specialty he's in requires it to directly enter jobs.  DS#2 graduates high school in June and starts community college with a general engineering major, or ECE with the plan to transfer to state university after 2 or so years. 

Meanwhile, I'll keep a box in my investments spreadsheet with "$ till 50X spending (not counting college)".  I'm $32k away from that goal now.  I expect that'll hit very soon, then I'll just change it to 60X.

Along the way, I'm going to spend some money too.  A roof needs to be replaced soon.  And I've taken up offroading with my very mustachian Jeep Wrangler (haha) and do plan to spend money slowly and carefully over this season on upgrades.  After the tuition bills for May are all paid, I'll look at what I've got left and probably buy a $189 front bumper.  June....maybe a winch.  Oh....and DS#2 will get his license so there's the matter of replacing a car.  Some people do spend their money.....
« Last Edit: May 02, 2019, 08:40:34 AM by Car Jack »

PhrugalPhan

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #959 on: May 02, 2019, 09:14:27 AM »
So why are you still at work then?
Yep, health insurance still keeps me there for now.  That and some home improvements I want to make.
What's amazing is the calculations just running simple numbers predicted.  That was five yeas ago and I'd just surpassed a million net worth.  I'd just started posting on MMM at the time.  I'd estimated somewhere 2 million net worth for 2018.  I now have twice the money that I had then.  Which is the money I'd predicted I'd have now.   The difference is how my brain perceived 2 million dollars then and now.  That me figured 2 million would be plenty.  That me probably was thinking, about all the chance circumstances that could wipe me out.  Why does this me still have doubts?  The calculations are the same.  FIRECalc give me a 100 percent prediction on retirement sucess, yet I'll be working night shift this weekend.
I will agree that you need to find your own reason.  As long as you understand the math and are deciding with all the facts to stay there, then who is to say you're wrong.  I'm sorta in the same boat with around $1Mil in my accounts, GF with just over $1Mil, and she has an ok pension too.  I am sticking it out as she would like me to get my pension in 3 years (I would too!) .  I may decide to pull the plug before then but for now I am using my FU money to allow me not to be pushed around on the job.

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #960 on: May 02, 2019, 10:00:05 AM »
Thanks for all the responses.  I value your opinions greatly.  I'd bet many of us are future-proofers.  When we make a decision or purchase we look at where that decision takes us years to come.  We spend lots of time in predictive thinking.  Some impulsive people may have such good instincts that they are already making profits, when were still calculating.  Time, patience and consistency are our strengths.   Our greatest risk is waiting too long, a little Fear of Missing Out, could do us some good.

MiserlyMiser

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #961 on: May 02, 2019, 12:03:03 PM »
A woman in my field and community recently fell sick very suddenly and passed away.  She was only a year older than me (fairly young).  If this were the last year of my life, I would not want to spend it working. 

ETA: I knew her only very slightly.  I'm young enough that this is the first time someone I know in my cohort has died so suddenly and unexpectedly (i.e., not because of an accident or long illness)--I'm not yet at the age when people start dying from heart attacks--and it was kind of a shock.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2019, 12:08:18 PM by MiserlyMiser »

ysette9

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #962 on: May 02, 2019, 02:31:01 PM »

- SNIP -


So why are you still at work then?

That is a question many of us are pondering at frequent intervals.  For me, health care will be easier if I hang on until year's end.

Tick, tick, tick and I am selling off little pieces of my life.

Yep, health insurance still keeps me there for now.  That and some home improvements I want to make.
What's amazing is the calculations just running simple numbers predicted.  That was five yeas ago and I'd just surpassed a million net worth.  I'd just started posting on MMM at the time.  I'd estimated somewhere 2 million net worth for 2018.  I now have twice the money that I had then.  Which is the money I'd predicted I'd have now.   The difference is how my brain perceived 2 million dollars then and now.  That me figured 2 million would be plenty.  That me probably was thinking, about all the chance circumstances that could wipe me out.  Why does this me still have doubts?  The calculations are the same.  FIRECalc give me a 100 percent prediction on retirement sucess, yet I'll be working night shift this weekend.
What you say about $1m vs $2m and how the brain perceives it differently when it is a reality resonates with me. Back when I started on these forums I calculated that $1.6m was the magical number. That was based on the situation then which has since changed, but at the time $1.6 felt like a lot of riches. Today we are almost at $2.1 which feels like less than I imagined $1.6 would feel like. It is like looking up to the top of a mountain and the mountain looks really tall, until you get to the top and look down and decide that maybe it wasnít tall after all. It gives me more appreciation for how people end up in a OMY scenario.

JoJoP

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #963 on: May 02, 2019, 02:57:51 PM »
I'm hardly one to talk, but I wasn't comfortable until well past 3MM.  Or maybe I'm not comfortable yet! Having just spent the last hour or so checking finances, I'd say I still fret.  I only decided that by any standards, this $$$ should be enough, very recently.  I just reworked my part time gig a couple of weeks ago, to say I'm really not planning on working.    I (sortof) felt felt financially free when our fistful of rental mortgages was paid off, and that just happened earlier this year.  We still have a high overhead with taxes, property taxes, health, vehicle and property insurance, college for 2 kids, vacations, etc.   I'm protective of the 'stache.  It took a lot of effort to get here.    The numbers say I'm ok, the statistics say I'm better than most,  but the emotions aren't so decisive.   DH has no such worries, but, OTOH, I'm the one who handles the finances and so the roller coaster ride is all mine. 

But for you, @Bateaux, if work sucks, definitely do something else.   You've put too much effort into getting here to have someone else ruin a perfectly wonderful day.  Quit the bad job and do something you enjoy, or nothing for a while.  You can coast for the summer or until 2020, and it will all be fine.  A little work never hurt anyone, and you can always get a job or a side gig, as you choose. 

JoJoP

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #964 on: May 02, 2019, 03:09:06 PM »



What you say about $1m vs $2m and how the brain perceives it differently when it is a reality resonates with me. Back when I started on these forums I calculated that $1.6m was the magical number. That was based on the situation then which has since changed, but at the time $1.6 felt like a lot of riches. Today we are almost at $2.1 which feels like less than I imagined $1.6 would feel like. It is like looking up to the top of a mountain and the mountain looks really tall, until you get to the top and look down and decide that maybe it wasnít tall after all. It gives me more appreciation for how people end up in a OMY scenario.

Exactly! When I was (much) younger I once got a couple of grand in cash... IT-FELT-LIKE-SO-MUCH-MONEY!  Toss it the air with glee and watch it fall all over the room fun! Roll in it- roll in the dough!  It was BIG BUCKS!  But now, this big number just doesn't feel like as much as I thought it would. It actually doesn't really feel very different at all. Ok, well, a little different.   There are days when I think "how the heck did I get so rich?" But mostly I feel the same as I always did, with less financial worries.  I've never reached FU except on very small, somewhat meek scale, such as:  I won't work for someone who really aggravates me. 

Or perhaps for some people achieving these goals is more like you've climbed Mt. Whitney and Everest must be conquered! 

What's a "OMY scenario?"

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #965 on: May 02, 2019, 03:21:59 PM »
OMY= one more year

The urge to work just one more year after hitting FI for <fill in the blank reasons>

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #966 on: May 02, 2019, 06:31:15 PM »
You all are an awesome support group.  Many thanks

Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #967 on: May 02, 2019, 08:59:36 PM »



What you say about $1m vs $2m and how the brain perceives it differently when it is a reality resonates with me. Back when I started on these forums I calculated that $1.6m was the magical number. That was based on the situation then which has since changed, but at the time $1.6 felt like a lot of riches. Today we are almost at $2.1 which feels like less than I imagined $1.6 would feel like. It is like looking up to the top of a mountain and the mountain looks really tall, until you get to the top and look down and decide that maybe it wasnít tall after all. It gives me more appreciation for how people end up in a OMY scenario.

Exactly! When I was (much) younger I once got a couple of grand in cash... IT-FELT-LIKE-SO-MUCH-MONEY!  Toss it the air with glee and watch it fall all over the room fun! Roll in it- roll in the dough!  It was BIG BUCKS!  But now, this big number just doesn't feel like as much as I thought it would. It actually doesn't really feel very different at all. Ok, well, a little different.   There are days when I think "how the heck did I get so rich?" But mostly I feel the same as I always did, with less financial worries.  I've never reached FU except on very small, somewhat meek scale, such as:  I won't work for someone who really aggravates me. 

Or perhaps for some people achieving these goals is more like you've climbed Mt. Whitney and Everest must be conquered! 




Interesting. I wonder if the giant NW worth number is "so large" that we really can't connect with it in a way like you do with having a couple of thousand in cash.

I.e its really impractical to go and withdraw a couple of million and throw it around the living room (taxes for a start), so its just a silly number so its not meaningful in an emotional way.

soccerluvof4

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #968 on: May 03, 2019, 02:48:25 AM »



What you say about $1m vs $2m and how the brain perceives it differently when it is a reality resonates with me. Back when I started on these forums I calculated that $1.6m was the magical number. That was based on the situation then which has since changed, but at the time $1.6 felt like a lot of riches. Today we are almost at $2.1 which feels like less than I imagined $1.6 would feel like. It is like looking up to the top of a mountain and the mountain looks really tall, until you get to the top and look down and decide that maybe it wasnít tall after all. It gives me more appreciation for how people end up in a OMY scenario.

Exactly! When I was (much) younger I once got a couple of grand in cash... IT-FELT-LIKE-SO-MUCH-MONEY!  Toss it the air with glee and watch it fall all over the room fun! Roll in it- roll in the dough!  It was BIG BUCKS!  But now, this big number just doesn't feel like as much as I thought it would. It actually doesn't really feel very different at all. Ok, well, a little different.   There are days when I think "how the heck did I get so rich?" But mostly I feel the same as I always did, with less financial worries.  I've never reached FU except on very small, somewhat meek scale, such as:  I won't work for someone who really aggravates me. 

Or perhaps for some people achieving these goals is more like you've climbed Mt. Whitney and Everest must be conquered! 




Interesting. I wonder if the giant NW worth number is "so large" that we really can't connect with it in a way like you do with having a couple of thousand in cash.

I.e its really impractical to go and withdraw a couple of million and throw it around the living room (taxes for a start), so its just a silly number so its not meaningful in an emotional way.



Throwing a couple three million dollars in the air would be fun and neat to see. In my case there really wasn't OMY syndrome from a stand point that If i didn't shut my business down not sure I would of made it another year as I was just tapped of energy and working to keep my employees going when my heart wasn't in it anymore I couldn't do it and my health and body was paying the price. I think too that's why even four years into be fire'd though I am hanging right around the 3M number with 2 in college and 2 to go I still at times feel "Oh I am good I got this " then the next day I might think " Maybe I should get a job part time" Usually I just settle in but like this week I got offered a really nice paying cash mulch job so I took it. So mentally I am all over the place but am getting better at accepting the fact being Fire'd is great and the right thing for me. Everyone is different and there is no right or wrong but if your miserable then get out. That I have never regretted other than missing some of my employees now and again though they gave me a lot of headaches!

itchyfeet

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #969 on: May 03, 2019, 03:32:02 AM »
Chewbacca is dead. Peter Mayhew passed away at 74.

That is only 27 years older than I am now.

Meanwhile I spend so much energy worrying whether my stash will last 40 or even 50 years (DW is 42, so very well might live 50 more years). I suffer the common deep fear in being old, helpless and bankrupt. Reliant on the government to look after me.  No thank you.

But, it is very likely I wonít make it to 74, much less 40 more years (87) as I donít look after myself at all well. Iíll probably die with millions in the bank, maybe even in my 50s. This is a very sobering thought

The next 10 years could very well be the last 10 years I can physically do anything I want, before my body rebels on me.

Today I can pretty much afford to do anything I want and If we had to cut our spending in half in 20 years time we could. It wouldnít be ideal, but certainly possible.

And yet, I too keep working in a job that doesnít really inspire me, and padding the stash. Just in case I live to 100 and want a golden coffin......

I really hope I find the balls to hand my resignation in come August and then really work on defining and chasing my dreams, and not just clocking in at 9am every morning.

2Birds1Stone

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #970 on: May 03, 2019, 04:19:28 AM »
This thread got depressing real quick.

Sadly most will die with a fortune, and that's ok. Some trust fund baby will gladly spend it all on hookers and blow.

BeanCounter

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #971 on: May 03, 2019, 04:34:08 AM »
Iíve been lurking on this thread for awhile. I guess hoping to gain some insight or comfort from you all about why DH and I (both 41) are still working until we get to the $3M number. And depending on the situation with healthcare may continue until the kids are out of college. Which would put us probably closer to $4M unless we have another recession with stagnant ten year returns.
These last few posts really hit home to me. Especially Itchyfeets post. That is exactly the circle my brain does:
 -I probably wonít live to be 100 and I may not be able to do all the things I want after 60 so I better do it now!
 -but 50 years to fund is a lot!!! What if there is a recession and we have zero returns. What if Iím wrong about expenses for the kids? Or healthcare?
-But the kids are growing fast Iíd really like to be home with them! And we are FI by most peopleís standards! Our advisor says we are good to go. I should do it! Quit now!!
-But I make so much money and my job is pretty easy, with good people there! Why would I give that up?
-but Iím so tired all the time. And my kids are aging out of nannys and programs. I donít want them to be latch key kids!
-but Iíve worked so hard to get where I am in my career!! Lots of folks would love to have my job.

And on and on it goes. The plan is for me to work through all this mentally and pull the trigger one year from now- May of 2020. DH will keep working until he feels ready to be done. I hope to try and start my own tax and accounting business and maybe adjunct a few accounting classes. Hopefully that will help me feel like I am still using my skills.

snowdog

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #972 on: May 03, 2019, 07:03:34 AM »

- SNIP -


So why are you still at work then?

That is a question many of us are pondering at frequent intervals.  For me, health care will be easier if I hang on until year's end.

Tick, tick, tick and I am selling off little pieces of my life.

Yep, health insurance still keeps me there for now.  That and some home improvements I want to make.
What's amazing is the calculations just running simple numbers predicted.  That was five yeas ago and I'd just surpassed a million net worth.  I'd just started posting on MMM at the time.  I'd estimated somewhere 2 million net worth for 2018.  I now have twice the money that I had then.  Which is the money I'd predicted I'd have now.   The difference is how my brain perceived 2 million dollars then and now.  That me figured 2 million would be plenty.  That me probably was thinking, about all the chance circumstances that could wipe me out.  Why does this me still have doubts?  The calculations are the same.  FIRECalc give me a 100 percent prediction on retirement sucess, yet I'll be working night shift this weekend.


Yup, it never ends.  I was at $1.3M targeting $1.5M as my number, as I passed that I set $2M as the magic number, passed that and when I got to $2.3M I finally decided that it was time to pull the plug.  Then OMY turned to OMW and an endless loop of doom scenarios.  The reasons to bail were compelling as I travel 100% as I commute out of state every week, I no longer enjoy my job, it's extremely stressful and I'm 57.5.  To offset this I make really good money and walking away was a huge hurdle to overcome.  Well I finally did it, last day is set in June and now the pile is at $2.6M.  While if feels great to have finally crossed the abyss, I still think occasionally if I should have stuck around until I amassed $3.0M.  However, now that I know this moving the goal posts never ends, I'm at peace with where I'm at.       


Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #973 on: May 03, 2019, 01:13:15 PM »
Maybe this will help.. Who knows.

$3million .. with zero gains over say the next 10 years.

1) Currently with an aggressive say 80/20 portfolio this will gain a dividend of 2% or $60,000 per year.. $60k per year just for owning stocks.

2) If we get completely flat returns.. Well $3M assuming a spend of $50k/year will last 60 years!

Sometimes you really have to conclude that the risk of dropping dead of a stress induced heart attack is much greater than than the risk of spending all your money.

I'm preaching to myself here as much as anyone else.

soccerluvof4

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #974 on: May 03, 2019, 02:00:02 PM »
Maybe this will help.. Who knows.

$3million .. with zero gains over say the next 10 years.

1) Currently with an aggressive say 80/20 portfolio this will gain a dividend of 2% or $60,000 per year.. $60k per year just for owning stocks.

2) If we get completely flat returns.. Well $3M assuming a spend of $50k/year will last 60 years!

Sometimes you really have to conclude that the risk of dropping dead of a stress induced heart attack is much greater than than the risk of spending all your money.

I'm preaching to myself here as much as anyone else.


There is always that................ but lets not go there. Today was a good day in the markets! we have that for now

snowdog

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #975 on: May 03, 2019, 02:06:03 PM »
Maybe this will help.. Who knows.

$3million .. with zero gains over say the next 10 years.

1) Currently with an aggressive say 80/20 portfolio this will gain a dividend of 2% or $60,000 per year.. $60k per year just for owning stocks.

2) If we get completely flat returns.. Well $3M assuming a spend of $50k/year will last 60 years!

Sometimes you really have to conclude that the risk of dropping dead of a stress induced heart attack is much greater than than the risk of spending all your money.

I'm preaching to myself here as much as anyone else.

Exflyboy, I totally agree.  The math is what finally got me over the finish line.  That and my pending expiration date.

markbike528CBX

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #976 on: May 03, 2019, 02:27:46 PM »
This thread got depressing real quick.

Sadly most will die with a fortune, and that's ok. Some trust fund baby will gladly spend it all on hookers and blow.

I think you meant "Bananas and Blow:" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Gd87JmkAkE

Our friend Tom Gnoza, of Millionaire's Club and Uncle Dirt Nap  covered this song, unfortunately, don't have a Youtube to go with it.

londonbanker

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #977 on: May 03, 2019, 02:32:59 PM »
This thread got depressing real quick..

I was going to say the same thing... What people forget sometimes, is that there is always the ability to do a little of consulting, or PT work somewhere along the way if your stash diminishes too quickly to your comfort as you get in your 50s and you think you might overshoot you expect life expectancy :-)

Doesnít have to always be an all or nothing. Going back to low part time work after a 5-10years isnít a disgrace. If anything, I bet you are thankful you got to enjoy that amazing sabbatical when you were still young and healthy

londonbanker

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #978 on: May 03, 2019, 02:35:52 PM »
Maybe this will help.. Who knows.

$3million .. with zero gains over say the next 10 years.

1) Currently with an aggressive say 80/20 portfolio this will gain a dividend of 2% or $60,000 per year.. $60k per year just for owning stocks.

2) If we get completely flat returns.. Well $3M assuming a spend of $50k/year will last 60 years!

Sometimes you really have to conclude that the risk of dropping dead of a stress induced heart attack is much greater than than the risk of spending all your money.

I'm preaching to myself here as much as anyone else.

Well - that is assuming that inflation is zero... as the discounted rate of that 60k withdrawal will have dented the value of your capital by a significant margin in real terms over 10yrs

londonbanker

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #979 on: May 03, 2019, 02:46:04 PM »
Iíve been lurking on this thread for awhile. I guess hoping to gain some insight or comfort from you all about why DH and I (both 41) are still working until we get to the $3M number. And depending on the situation with healthcare may continue until the kids are out of college. Which would put us probably closer to $4M unless we have another recession with stagnant ten year returns.
These last few posts really hit home to me. Especially Itchyfeets post. That is exactly the circle my brain does:
 -I probably wonít live to be 100 and I may not be able to do all the things I want after 60 so I better do it now!
 -but 50 years to fund is a lot!!! What if there is a recession and we have zero returns. What if Iím wrong about expenses for the kids? Or healthcare?
-But the kids are growing fast Iíd really like to be home with them! And we are FI by most peopleís standards! Our advisor says we are good to go. I should do it! Quit now!!
-But I make so much money and my job is pretty easy, with good people there! Why would I give that up?
-but Iím so tired all the time. And my kids are aging out of nannys and programs. I donít want them to be latch key kids!
-but Iíve worked so hard to get where I am in my career!! Lots of folks would love to have my job.

And on and on it goes. The plan is for me to work through all this mentally and pull the trigger one year from now- May of 2020. DH will keep working until he feels ready to be done. I hope to try and start my own tax and accounting business and maybe adjunct a few accounting classes. Hopefully that will help me feel like I am still using my skills.

Beancounter - my DW and I are exactly in the same situation. Although we are a little younger than you guys, we keeping asking ourselves the exact same questions.

We both really like our jobs but want to spend more time w our children while they are still young and still love being around us (3 and 5 yo). However we realise than we make more in one year than what they are likely to make in the first 10years of their professional life. Itís a bit absurd but we feel guilty thinking about how much of a difference this could make to their life, as they could pursue whatever career they wanted based on passion, without worrying about the financial implications.

So we are torn between pulling the trigger and giving as much of our time as possible while it matters most, which I am sure they will cherish for the rest of their life, or keeping at it for a few more years.

I am not sure those life decisions are easy for anyone!

soccerluvof4

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #980 on: May 03, 2019, 03:07:40 PM »
Iíve been lurking on this thread for awhile. I guess hoping to gain some insight or comfort from you all about why DH and I (both 41) are still working until we get to the $3M number. And depending on the situation with healthcare may continue until the kids are out of college. Which would put us probably closer to $4M unless we have another recession with stagnant ten year returns.
These last few posts really hit home to me. Especially Itchyfeets post. That is exactly the circle my brain does:
 -I probably wonít live to be 100 and I may not be able to do all the things I want after 60 so I better do it now!
 -but 50 years to fund is a lot!!! What if there is a recession and we have zero returns. What if Iím wrong about expenses for the kids? Or healthcare?
-But the kids are growing fast Iíd really like to be home with them! And we are FI by most peopleís standards! Our advisor says we are good to go. I should do it! Quit now!!
-But I make so much money and my job is pretty easy, with good people there! Why would I give that up?
-but Iím so tired all the time. And my kids are aging out of nannys and programs. I donít want them to be latch key kids!
-but Iíve worked so hard to get where I am in my career!! Lots of folks would love to have my job.

And on and on it goes. The plan is for me to work through all this mentally and pull the trigger one year from now- May of 2020. DH will keep working until he feels ready to be done. I hope to try and start my own tax and accounting business and maybe adjunct a few accounting classes. Hopefully that will help me feel like I am still using my skills.

Beancounter - my DW and I are exactly in the same situation. Although we are a little younger than you guys, we keeping asking ourselves the exact same questions.

We both really like our jobs but want to spend more time w our children while they are still young and still love being around us (3 and 5 yo). However we realise than we make more in one year than what they are likely to make in the first 10years of their professional life. Itís a bit absurd but we feel guilty thinking about how much of a difference this could make to their life, as they could pursue whatever career they wanted based on passion, without worrying about the financial implications.

So we are torn between pulling the trigger and giving as much of our time as possible while it matters most, which I am sure they will cherish for the rest of their life, or keeping at it for a few more years.

I am not sure those life decisions are easy for anyone!



Not to be snide but maybe as you said It doesn't have to be all or nothing? or could one of you work and one stay home.  Having 4 kids of my own making the decision to be home with them and doing more with them was the best decision I ever made. But I understand its not an easy one and not everyone can do it.

meatgrinder

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #981 on: May 03, 2019, 03:11:57 PM »
Iíve been lurking on this thread for awhile. I guess hoping to gain some insight or comfort from you all about why DH and I (both 41) are still working until we get to the $3M number. And depending on the situation with healthcare may continue until the kids are out of college. Which would put us probably closer to $4M unless we have another recession with stagnant ten year returns.
These last few posts really hit home to me. Especially Itchyfeets post. That is exactly the circle my brain does:
 -I probably wonít live to be 100 and I may not be able to do all the things I want after 60 so I better do it now!
 -but 50 years to fund is a lot!!! What if there is a recession and we have zero returns. What if Iím wrong about expenses for the kids? Or healthcare?
-But the kids are growing fast Iíd really like to be home with them! And we are FI by most peopleís standards! Our advisor says we are good to go. I should do it! Quit now!!
-But I make so much money and my job is pretty easy, with good people there! Why would I give that up?
-but Iím so tired all the time. And my kids are aging out of nannys and programs. I donít want them to be latch key kids!
-but Iíve worked so hard to get where I am in my career!! Lots of folks would love to have my job.

And on and on it goes. The plan is for me to work through all this mentally and pull the trigger one year from now- May of 2020. DH will keep working until he feels ready to be done. I hope to try and start my own tax and accounting business and maybe adjunct a few accounting classes. Hopefully that will help me feel like I am still using my skills.

My own personal regret minimization framework is that when I'm 100, I'll look back at these early retirement years 40-65 and have no regrets that I gave up an extra $XXM to be with my loved ones and do what I want to do rather than under the florescent lights.

I too have a cushy well paying job with friendly coworkers and all the benefits, but now I have the luxury of asking the question "Would I be working this job if it paid $0"?  and for most of us, myself included, I think the answer is no.

SIAP Click this link and find out how much more likely you'll be dead before you're broke. ]https://engaging-data.com/will-money-last-retire-early/]

Edit- fixed link
« Last Edit: May 03, 2019, 04:32:34 PM by meatgrinder »

pecunia

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #982 on: May 03, 2019, 07:04:44 PM »
I heard on the radio today that we have had the best employment figures since 1969.

That is before some of you young-uns was born. (I wasn't very old.)

So with very good employment and the stock market hitting record highs, couldn't you consider going out soon?

I am.  Less than a year to ensure adequate health care.  Firecalc tells me the stash is there. 

By the way - We went to the moon in 1969 during that politically incorrect non computer non cell phone time.  In case they don't have time to teach this in school.

itchyfeet

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #983 on: May 04, 2019, 04:25:47 AM »

So with very good employment and the stock market hitting record highs, couldn't you consider going out soon?

Maybe the top is in..... 🤪

BeanCounter

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #984 on: May 04, 2019, 06:39:34 AM »
Iíve been lurking on this thread for awhile. I guess hoping to gain some insight or comfort from you all about why DH and I (both 41) are still working until we get to the $3M number. And depending on the situation with healthcare may continue until the kids are out of college. Which would put us probably closer to $4M unless we have another recession with stagnant ten year returns.
These last few posts really hit home to me. Especially Itchyfeets post. That is exactly the circle my brain does:
 -I probably wonít live to be 100 and I may not be able to do all the things I want after 60 so I better do it now!
 -but 50 years to fund is a lot!!! What if there is a recession and we have zero returns. What if Iím wrong about expenses for the kids? Or healthcare?
-But the kids are growing fast Iíd really like to be home with them! And we are FI by most peopleís standards! Our advisor says we are good to go. I should do it! Quit now!!
-But I make so much money and my job is pretty easy, with good people there! Why would I give that up?
-but Iím so tired all the time. And my kids are aging out of nannys and programs. I donít want them to be latch key kids!
-but Iíve worked so hard to get where I am in my career!! Lots of folks would love to have my job.

And on and on it goes. The plan is for me to work through all this mentally and pull the trigger one year from now- May of 2020. DH will keep working until he feels ready to be done. I hope to try and start my own tax and accounting business and maybe adjunct a few accounting classes. Hopefully that will help me feel like I am still using my skills.

Beancounter - my DW and I are exactly in the same situation. Although we are a little younger than you guys, we keeping asking ourselves the exact same questions.

We both really like our jobs but want to spend more time w our children while they are still young and still love being around us (3 and 5 yo). However we realise than we make more in one year than what they are likely to make in the first 10years of their professional life. Itís a bit absurd but we feel guilty thinking about how much of a difference this could make to their life, as they could pursue whatever career they wanted based on passion, without worrying about the financial implications.

So we are torn between pulling the trigger and giving as much of our time as possible while it matters most, which I am sure they will cherish for the rest of their life, or keeping at it for a few more years.

I am not sure those life decisions are easy for anyone!



Not to be snide but maybe as you said It doesn't have to be all or nothing? or could one of you work and one stay home.  Having 4 kids of my own making the decision to be home with them and doing more with them was the best decision I ever made. But I understand its not an easy one and not everyone can do it.
Yes. Part time or gig work for me is part of the plan after May 2020. This really wasnít an option prior to my kids being school aged because we simply couldnít find affordable, quality part time child care. We had excellent full time care (at a high cost but my full time salary is on the high end), and this is why I continued to work. Now the kids are in school and the stash has grown to $2.3M so I think I can go ahead and leave. DH will stay working because he is not ready yet and we would like to see what happens with healthcare. His job also provides tuition remission for our kids at an ok state university.
Despite ALL THAT it still seems risky to me. With both of us working we have well over $200k in income so we can handle anything that comes our way. We are not ver mustachian. The kids go to private school, take music lessons and do sports. We have a decent sized suburban home (live there for the neighborhood for our kids) and belong to a neighborhood swim club, play golf etc. We also travel a lot as a family of four (leaving for Yellowstone in June!) These are all things that we (particularly DH) are not willing to give up. Plus I do feel like Iíve worked really hard to get where I am at work. Hard to walk away from that.
It will be a big change for us come next spring. I really hope I can handle it. I put in my application to be an adjunct accounting instructor yesterday. Iím really hoping I get a call for fall as I think that will help me feel good about the transition. I know I will make very little as an adjunct, but I see it as a way to give back and keep my skills fresh. I also really want to start a small tax business. I want to be more available to my boys but I do still want them to see me working in some capacity.
Sorry- this is still a lot of me working through this emotionally.

JoJoP

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #985 on: May 04, 2019, 09:11:51 AM »


<snip>
Despite ALL THAT it still seems risky to me. With both of us working we have well over $200k in income so we can handle anything that comes our way. We are not ver mustachian. The kids go to private school, take music lessons and do sports. We have a decent sized suburban home (live there for the neighborhood for our kids) and belong to a neighborhood swim club, play golf etc. We also travel a lot as a family of four (leaving for Yellowstone in June!) These are all things that we (particularly DH) are not willing to give up. Plus I do feel like Iíve worked really hard to get where I am at work. Hard to walk away from that.
It will be a big change for us come next spring. I really hope I can handle it. I put in my application to be an adjunct accounting instructor yesterday. Iím really hoping I get a call for fall as I think that will help me feel good about the transition. I know I will make very little as an adjunct, but I see it as a way to give back and keep my skills fresh. I also really want to start a small tax business. I want to be more available to my boys but I do still want them to see me working in some capacity.
Sorry- this is still a lot of me working through this emotionally.

Welcome to the thread.  I'm glad that you joined us and are sharing your thoughts.  Many of us can relate. These are tough decisions. 

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #986 on: May 04, 2019, 05:25:57 PM »
Probably we need to meditate more to help deal with the anxiety of money.

pecunia

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #987 on: May 04, 2019, 06:29:04 PM »
Having enough to say hasta la vista baby to the job not only relieves anxiety on its own but allows you the time to meditate.

Car Jack

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #988 on: May 06, 2019, 06:51:40 AM »
I heard on the radio today that we have had the best employment figures since 1969.

That is before some of you young-uns was born. (I wasn't very old.)

So with very good employment and the stock market hitting record highs, couldn't you consider going out soon?

I am.  Less than a year to ensure adequate health care.  Firecalc tells me the stash is there. 

By the way - We went to the moon in 1969 during that politically incorrect non computer non cell phone time.  In case they don't have time to teach this in school.

But employment figures are skewed.  Part time workers who can't get decent full time work are "working".  Jobs in 1969 could be held for life and regularly were with a decent pension at the end of the working times.  Manufacturing jobs, while boring, soul sucking and menial paid good money with pensions at the end of the years.  College was affordable for pretty much everyone and going to the doctor meant paying in full what we pay in co-pays today. 

(I was in Jr. High School and playing guitar at block parties in 1969)

pecunia

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #989 on: May 06, 2019, 06:47:35 PM »
I heard on the radio today that we have had the best employment figures since 1969.

That is before some of you young-uns was born. (I wasn't very old.)

So with very good employment and the stock market hitting record highs, couldn't you consider going out soon?

I am.  Less than a year to ensure adequate health care.  Firecalc tells me the stash is there. 

By the way - We went to the moon in 1969 during that politically incorrect non computer non cell phone time.  In case they don't have time to teach this in school.

But employment figures are skewed.  Part time workers who can't get decent full time work are "working".  Jobs in 1969 could be held for life and regularly were with a decent pension at the end of the working times.  Manufacturing jobs, while boring, soul sucking and menial paid good money with pensions at the end of the years.  College was affordable for pretty much everyone and going to the doctor meant paying in full what we pay in co-pays today. 

(I was in Jr. High School and playing guitar at block parties in 1969)

Yeh - Good music in 1969.  Two years after the Summer of Love.

Well - I guess things changed about 1980 after the Reagan revolution.

And,.....maybe the Reagan revolution is finally over and the good times will be rolling again!

Laissez les bons temps rouler !

soccerluvof4

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #990 on: May 07, 2019, 03:12:44 AM »
I heard on the radio today that we have had the best employment figures since 1969.

That is before some of you young-uns was born. (I wasn't very old.)

So with very good employment and the stock market hitting record highs, couldn't you consider going out soon?

I am.  Less than a year to ensure adequate health care.  Firecalc tells me the stash is there. 

By the way - We went to the moon in 1969 during that politically incorrect non computer non cell phone time.  In case they don't have time to teach this in school.

But employment figures are skewed.  Part time workers who can't get decent full time work are "working".  Jobs in 1969 could be held for life and regularly were with a decent pension at the end of the working times.  Manufacturing jobs, while boring, soul sucking and menial paid good money with pensions at the end of the years.  College was affordable for pretty much everyone and going to the doctor meant paying in full what we pay in co-pays today. 

(I was in Jr. High School and playing guitar at block parties in 1969)

Yeh - Good music in 1969.  Two years after the Summer of Love.

Well - I guess things changed about 1980 after the Reagan revolution.

And,.....maybe the Reagan revolution is finally over and the good times will be rolling again!

Laissez les bons temps rouler !

Top 10 of 1969 , even then music was so diversified. And look at the Rolling stones and still going at it!


1. Sugar, Sugar - The Archies
2. Aquarius / Let the Sunshine In - The Fifth Dimension
3. I Can't Get Next to You - The Temptations
4. Honky Tonk Women - The Rolling Stones
5. Everyday People - Sly and The Family Stone
6. Dizzy - Tommy Roe
7. Hot Fun In the Summertime - Sly and The Family Stone
8. (It Looks Like) I'll Never Fall In Love Again - Tom Jones
9. Build Me Up Buttercup - The Foundations
10. Crimson and Clover - Tommy James and The Shondells

Dicey

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #991 on: May 07, 2019, 05:41:24 AM »
Top 10 of 1969 , even then music was so diversified. And look at the Rolling stones and still going at it!

1. Sugar, Sugar - The Archies
2. Aquarius / Let the Sunshine In - The Fifth Dimension
3. I Can't Get Next to You - The Temptations
4. Honky Tonk Women - The Rolling Stones
5. Everyday People - Sly and The Family Stone
6. Dizzy - Tommy Roe
7. Hot Fun In the Summertime - Sly and The Family Stone
8. (It Looks Like) I'll Never Fall In Love Again - Tom Jones
9. Build Me Up Buttercup - The Foundations
10. Crimson and Clover - Tommy James and The Shondells
I was 11 in 1969. I can sing all of these songs. What I wouldn't give now for a fresh supply of those young, sticky brain cells...

Car Jack

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #992 on: May 07, 2019, 08:29:05 AM »
.....and don't forget Proud Mary by Creedence.  Every garage band played it because....well....even a mediocre guitar player could get through it.

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #993 on: May 07, 2019, 08:32:24 AM »
I spend a lot of time with younger friends these days.  It keeps you younger, if in nothing but attitude.  I certainly have older friends, but most of them seem old in body and mind.  I'm planning a September 14er peak bagging trip for this year.  The younger ones think that's cool, the older ones think I'm nuts.  Weekend before last I decided to put my camping gear on my bicycle and traveled 170 miles in two days.  I was run off the road, horns blown at me, rocks thrown from tires struck my body.  I plan to do much more road touring in the future, I'm just getting started. You can die or be injured seeking Type 2 fun.  But, you'll die eventually whether you pushed the limits or not.

tooqk4u22

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #994 on: May 07, 2019, 10:33:45 AM »
Thanks for all the responses.  I value your opinions greatly.  I'd bet many of us are future-proofers.  When we make a decision or purchase we look at where that decision takes us years to come.  We spend lots of time in predictive thinking.  Some impulsive people may have such good instincts that they are already making profits, when were still calculating.  Time, patience and consistency are our strengths.   Our greatest risk is waiting too long, a little Fear of Missing Out, could do us some good.

I get this....I am the excel spreadsheet formula that either (a) runs a thousand iterations or (b) results in a circular logic error....really need to get somewhere in between....haha.

BeanCounter

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #995 on: May 07, 2019, 10:43:50 AM »
I spend a lot of time with younger friends these days.  It keeps you younger, if in nothing but attitude.  I certainly have older friends, but most of them seem old in body and mind.  I'm planning a September 14er peak bagging trip for this year.  The younger ones think that's cool, the older ones think I'm nuts.  Weekend before last I decided to put my camping gear on my bicycle and traveled 170 miles in two days.  I was run off the road, horns blown at me, rocks thrown from tires struck my body.  I plan to do much more road touring in the future, I'm just getting started. You can die or be injured seeking Type 2 fun.  But, you'll die eventually whether you pushed the limits or not.
I really like this Bateaux. Makes me think I need to be ok with risk to really be able to LIVE.
May 2020. Thatís my date. Iím going to have an epic summer with my kids to celebrate- no more nanny.

Dicey

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #996 on: May 07, 2019, 11:00:01 AM »
.....and don't forget Proud Mary by Creedence Clearwater Revival.  Every garage band played it because....well....even a mediocre guitar player could get through it.
FTFY

soccerluvof4

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #997 on: May 08, 2019, 03:38:43 AM »
I spend a lot of time with younger friends these days.  It keeps you younger, if in nothing but attitude.  I certainly have older friends, but most of them seem old in body and mind.  I'm planning a September 14er peak bagging trip for this year.  The younger ones think that's cool, the older ones think I'm nuts.  Weekend before last I decided to put my camping gear on my bicycle and traveled 170 miles in two days.  I was run off the road, horns blown at me, rocks thrown from tires struck my body.  I plan to do much more road touring in the future, I'm just getting started. You can die or be injured seeking Type 2 fun.  But, you'll die eventually whether you pushed the limits or not.


Same. This is y hopefully when we do move it will be near a college town. One we want to take advantage of all that they offer from watching sports to entertainment and 2) to be around younger people.

Car Jack

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #998 on: May 08, 2019, 06:33:19 AM »
I spend a lot of time with younger friends these days.  It keeps you younger, if in nothing but attitude.  I certainly have older friends, but most of them seem old in body and mind.  I'm planning a September 14er peak bagging trip for this year.  The younger ones think that's cool, the older ones think I'm nuts.  Weekend before last I decided to put my camping gear on my bicycle and traveled 170 miles in two days.  I was run off the road, horns blown at me, rocks thrown from tires struck my body.  I plan to do much more road touring in the future, I'm just getting started. You can die or be injured seeking Type 2 fun.  But, you'll die eventually whether you pushed the limits or not.

Maybe consider switching to mountain biking.  When I was younger, I was always on my bike including competitive races in UBLA (remember that name?) which became USCF.  I'd ride from Worcester, MA to Boston to see my girl friend.  These days, I stay off the road.  Too many LOLing teenage girls in Wrangler Rubicons focusing on their phones.  None of that on the trails and I can manage logs that fall across it.

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #999 on: May 08, 2019, 08:46:12 AM »
I love my spinning classes