Author Topic: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!  (Read 571288 times)

BeanCounter

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3550 on: July 29, 2020, 09:59:45 AM »
Ok so you all laid out good cases on rental properties, including the downside. Anyone have any experience with buying vacation properties as an investment?

SwordGuy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3551 on: July 29, 2020, 11:40:54 AM »
Ok so you all laid out good cases on rental properties, including the downside. Anyone have any experience with buying vacation properties as an investment?

There are still only 4 ways to make money on a real estate investment property whether you buy it as a regular investment or as a vacation home.   

You calculate the numbers EXACTLY the same way. 

The only difference is that you have less income than you would if it was a full time investment because every time you schedule vacation time in it you're taking away from it's rental income potential.


Buffaloski Boris

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3552 on: July 29, 2020, 03:20:19 PM »
Ok so you all laid out good cases on rental properties, including the downside. Anyone have any experience with buying vacation properties as an investment?

There are still only 4 ways to make money on a real estate investment property whether you buy it as a regular investment or as a vacation home.   

You calculate the numbers EXACTLY the same way. 

The only difference is that you have less income than you would if it was a full time investment because every time you schedule vacation time in it you're taking away from it's rental income potential.

What are the 4 ways? Complete real estate noob here.

SwordGuy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3553 on: July 29, 2020, 04:28:53 PM »
Ok so you all laid out good cases on rental properties, including the downside. Anyone have any experience with buying vacation properties as an investment?

There are still only 4 ways to make money on a real estate investment property whether you buy it as a regular investment or as a vacation home.   

You calculate the numbers EXACTLY the same way. 

The only difference is that you have less income than you would if it was a full time investment because every time you schedule vacation time in it you're taking away from it's rental income potential.

What are the 4 ways? Complete real estate noob here.

Gallinelli has a great book on Cash Flow and other measurements.   I highly recommend it.   Real estate is a numbers game and if you don't know how to run the numbers you're just gambling, not investing.

1.  Rent.   Someone pays you rent to stay there.   This is great because if it's enough you don't need MORE cash to keep the property.

2.  Equity.  You have a mortgage and your renters pay down the mortgage.   You don't see any cash until you either sell or you get more rent because the mortgage is paid off.

3. Appreciation.   The value of the property goes up over time.  You don't see any cash until you sell, but it will cause your property tax and insurance to go up.

4. Depreciation.   This is a legal provision in the US tax code that shelters some income from taxes, so you get to keep more of the income than you otherwise would.   Helps you keep your #1 Rent income or, if you sell, your Appreciation income.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3554 on: July 29, 2020, 05:52:49 PM »
Ok so you all laid out good cases on rental properties, including the downside. Anyone have any experience with buying vacation properties as an investment?

Had one on the FL panhandle (destin) with my parents 50/50 split.  In general it was not a good investment.  But it was 15 minutes from m sisters house so it worked for our family sold it in 2018 and now we just rent when we visit, we are all happier.

Buffaloski Boris

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3555 on: July 29, 2020, 07:01:51 PM »
Ok so you all laid out good cases on rental properties, including the downside. Anyone have any experience with buying vacation properties as an investment?

There are still only 4 ways to make money on a real estate investment property whether you buy it as a regular investment or as a vacation home.   

You calculate the numbers EXACTLY the same way. 

The only difference is that you have less income than you would if it was a full time investment because every time you schedule vacation time in it you're taking away from it's rental income potential.

What are the 4 ways? Complete real estate noob here.

Gallinelli has a great book on Cash Flow and other measurements.   I highly recommend it.   Real estate is a numbers game and if you don't know how to run the numbers you're just gambling, not investing.

1.  Rent.   Someone pays you rent to stay there.   This is great because if it's enough you don't need MORE cash to keep the property.

2.  Equity.  You have a mortgage and your renters pay down the mortgage.   You don't see any cash until you either sell or you get more rent because the mortgage is paid off.

3. Appreciation.   The value of the property goes up over time.  You don't see any cash until you sell, but it will cause your property tax and insurance to go up.

4. Depreciation.   This is a legal provision in the US tax code that shelters some income from taxes, so you get to keep more of the income than you otherwise would.   Helps you keep your #1 Rent income or, if you sell, your Appreciation income.
Thanks @SwordGuy for the response and the book recommendation!

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3556 on: July 29, 2020, 08:11:29 PM »
Ok so you all laid out good cases on rental properties, including the downside. Anyone have any experience with buying vacation properties as an investment?

There are still only 4 ways to make money on a real estate investment property whether you buy it as a regular investment or as a vacation home.   

You calculate the numbers EXACTLY the same way. 

The only difference is that you have less income than you would if it was a full time investment because every time you schedule vacation time in it you're taking away from it's rental income potential.

What are the 4 ways? Complete real estate noob here.

Gallinelli has a great book on Cash Flow and other measurements.   I highly recommend it.   Real estate is a numbers game and if you don't know how to run the numbers you're just gambling, not investing.

1.  Rent.   Someone pays you rent to stay there.   This is great because if it's enough you don't need MORE cash to keep the property.

2.  Equity.  You have a mortgage and your renters pay down the mortgage.   You don't see any cash until you either sell or you get more rent because the mortgage is paid off.

3. Appreciation.   The value of the property goes up over time.  You don't see any cash until you sell, but it will cause your property tax and insurance to go up.

4. Depreciation.   This is a legal provision in the US tax code that shelters some income from taxes, so you get to keep more of the income than you otherwise would.   Helps you keep your #1 Rent income or, if you sell, your Appreciation income.

Don't forget the depreciation recapture rules.. I.e when you sell your appreciated rental home the cost basis will be the original cost minus the sum total of amount you saved by writing off depreciation over numerous years.

E.g say you bought your home for $200k, then you write off say $10k for 10 years, the cost basis will then be 200-100 =$100k.

You then sell your home for $400k.. well then you will owe capital gains taxes on ($400-100) $300k.. not $200k.

Depreciation is great for income and ACA subsidies in the year you deduct. Its not free money however.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3557 on: July 29, 2020, 11:39:04 PM »
Ok so you all laid out good cases on rental properties, including the downside. Anyone have any experience with buying vacation properties as an investment?

There are still only 4 ways to make money on a real estate investment property whether you buy it as a regular investment or as a vacation home.   

You calculate the numbers EXACTLY the same way. 

The only difference is that you have less income than you would if it was a full time investment because every time you schedule vacation time in it you're taking away from it's rental income potential.

What are the 4 ways? Complete real estate noob here.

Gallinelli has a great book on Cash Flow and other measurements.   I highly recommend it.   Real estate is a numbers game and if you don't know how to run the numbers you're just gambling, not investing.

1.  Rent.   Someone pays you rent to stay there.   This is great because if it's enough you don't need MORE cash to keep the property.

2.  Equity.  You have a mortgage and your renters pay down the mortgage.   You don't see any cash until you either sell or you get more rent because the mortgage is paid off.

3. Appreciation.   The value of the property goes up over time.  You don't see any cash until you sell, but it will cause your property tax and insurance to go up.

4. Depreciation.   This is a legal provision in the US tax code that shelters some income from taxes, so you get to keep more of the income than you otherwise would.   Helps you keep your #1 Rent income or, if you sell, your Appreciation income.

Don't forget the depreciation recapture rules.. I.e when you sell your appreciated rental home the cost basis will be the original cost minus the sum total of amount you saved by writing off depreciation over numerous years.

E.g say you bought your home for $200k, then you write off say $10k for 10 years, the cost basis will then be 200-100 =$100k.

You then sell your home for $400k.. well then you will owe capital gains taxes on ($400-100) $300k.. not $200k.

Depreciation is great for income and ACA subsidies in the year you deduct. Its not free money however.
This is true, but if you don't take it, it can also cause tax problems:

"However, not depreciating your property will not save you from the tax Ė the IRS levies it on the depreciation that you should have claimed, whether or not you actually did. With this in mind, depreciating your property doesn't hurt you when you sell it, but it really helps you while you own it."

LWYRUP

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3558 on: July 30, 2020, 05:58:27 AM »
Depreciation defers taxes but doesn't eliminate them.  That offers some advantages because of the time value of money. 

It can be an effective strategy for high income earners trying to stay out of top brackets.

Or an estate planning strategy because the basis of the property will be stepped up at death.  (This is crazy, it's an enormous give away to the Trump / Kushner class).

For an UMC person, I think the best tax strategy is just to continually max out retirement accounts for decades.  Preferably a nice mix of regular and Roth.  Very simple but over time you can accumulate quite a lot. 

Things like sheltering income via depreciation deductions or buying municipal bonds are more powerful for people pushing into the top brackets.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2020, 06:02:09 AM by LWYRUP »

SwordGuy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3559 on: July 30, 2020, 06:40:58 AM »
Depreciation defers taxes but doesn't eliminate them.  That offers some advantages because of the time value of money. 

It can be an effective strategy for high income earners trying to stay out of top brackets.

Or an estate planning strategy because the basis of the property will be stepped up at death.  (This is crazy, it's an enormous give away to the Trump / Kushner class).


I believe it eliminates that tax if you never sell while you are alive.  You heirs won't have to pay it.

LWYRUP

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3560 on: July 30, 2020, 06:51:20 AM »
Depreciation defers taxes but doesn't eliminate them.  That offers some advantages because of the time value of money. 

It can be an effective strategy for high income earners trying to stay out of top brackets.

Or an estate planning strategy because the basis of the property will be stepped up at death.  (This is crazy, it's an enormous give away to the Trump / Kushner class).


I believe it eliminates that tax if you never sell while you are alive.  You heirs won't have to pay it.

Yes, I haven't verified by digging into the IRS publications but that's what Google tells me.

GreenEggs

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3561 on: July 30, 2020, 08:09:38 AM »
Depreciation defers taxes but doesn't eliminate them.  That offers some advantages because of the time value of money. 

It can be an effective strategy for high income earners trying to stay out of top brackets.

Or an estate planning strategy because the basis of the property will be stepped up at death.  (This is crazy, it's an enormous give away to the Trump / Kushner class).


I believe it eliminates that tax if you never sell while you are alive.  You heirs won't have to pay it.


But after the estate passes the $11.5/$23M (single/couple) limit real estate would be taxed at 40%, or whatever the rate is, right? 

LWYRUP

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3562 on: July 30, 2020, 08:21:29 AM »
Depreciation defers taxes but doesn't eliminate them.  That offers some advantages because of the time value of money. 

It can be an effective strategy for high income earners trying to stay out of top brackets.

Or an estate planning strategy because the basis of the property will be stepped up at death.  (This is crazy, it's an enormous give away to the Trump / Kushner class).


I believe it eliminates that tax if you never sell while you are alive.  You heirs won't have to pay it.


But after the estate passes the $11.5/$23M (single/couple) limit real estate would be taxed at 40%, or whatever the rate is, right?

I believe there is no limit for the step up basis.  So Kushner's dad will depreciate his property over his life and then Kushner will get it with a stepped up basis.  But yes with inheritance taxes on amounts over $10 million.

I have no idea what strategies really rich people use to try to get around that other than aggressive lifetime giving to multiple heirs (into trusts so protected from spouses, creditors).

I like money but I am way too lazy to get to the point where that's a live concern.  If it ever looks like my wealth is going to run away (start rapidly compounding beyond FI), I'll be out windsurfing (and donating to charity).  : )
« Last Edit: July 30, 2020, 08:23:37 AM by LWYRUP »

itchyfeet

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3563 on: July 30, 2020, 12:28:25 PM »
So curious to get some thoughts...

The salary offer for my New job finally arrived.

It was pretty much what I hoped for, so I was happy enough.

If an employer makes a good salary offer you are happy with do you make a counter offer?

I agonised over this a bit this afternoon, and then decided to go ahead and counter.

The reason why I did was because I once had a job where I just took the salary offered and then spent the next 5 years paid 10% less than the guy in the cubicle next to me doing the same job. This always made me feel slightly bitter. Comparison is the thief of joy.

So, this time I figured Iíd very politely test whether there wasnít a little more to be squeezed, just to never have to dwell on what might have been, but honestly I think the offer I got was pretty fair and I really couldnít care if I got paid more or not (just donít let me see what my peers are paid). I have grown a money tree now, so the salary is just a bonus whilst I get settled back into life in Australia.

JoJoP

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3564 on: July 30, 2020, 08:01:07 PM »
@itchyfeet, I think negotiating is a good idea.   Their first offer is rarely their best and final.  The worst that happens is you get the opening bid, which is exactly where you started from, right?

One more quirk about real estate...Don't forget the 1031 exchanges that will defer capital gains on Like Kind properties.   You can essentially roll up the gains and package them into apartments, condos, vacation rentals, farms, an office building, Self directed IRA, etc. 

 So you can go from a simple investment (say, a condo), to a more complicated one (vacation rental/strip mall) or the other way around.    Any house you live in for 2 years of the 5 years prior to the sale can gain 250,000 for a single person, or 500K for a couple of exempted capital gains.  That is a whole lot of untaxed gain, and there's no limit to how often you can do it. 

 That's a well known strategy among flippers.  Buy a fixer upper, live there and fix it up, sell it for untaxed profit 2 years later, rinse, repeat. 

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3565 on: July 31, 2020, 01:17:29 AM »
So curious to get some thoughts...

The salary offer for my New job finally arrived.

It was pretty much what I hoped for, so I was happy enough.

If an employer makes a good salary offer you are happy with do you make a counter offer?

I agonised over this a bit this afternoon, and then decided to go ahead and counter.

The reason why I did was because I once had a job where I just took the salary offered and then spent the next 5 years paid 10% less than the guy in the cubicle next to me doing the same job. This always made me feel slightly bitter. Comparison is the thief of joy.

So, this time I figured Iíd very politely test whether there wasnít a little more to be squeezed, just to never have to dwell on what might have been, but honestly I think the offer I got was pretty fair and I really couldnít care if I got paid more or not (just donít let me see what my peers are paid). I have grown a money tree now, so the salary is just a bonus whilst I get settled back into life in Australia.

Itchy bargain for the best you can get.  Our company is nickel and dime taking away our benefits.  At least I'm currently grandfathered into the pension that hasn't been offered to new hires and rehires since 2012.  The medical benefit is currently still offered to retirees who work till age 55.  On Monday I'll be eligible to early retire without medical.   I've been looking forward to that day for 28 years.  But, at this point I'm hanging on till 2023 for my 55th birthday. There are simply no safe means to make retirement money at this point.

honeyfill

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3566 on: July 31, 2020, 07:25:26 AM »
So curious to get some thoughts...

The salary offer for my New job finally arrived.

It was pretty much what I hoped for, so I was happy enough.

If an employer makes a good salary offer you are happy with do you make a counter offer?

I agonised over this a bit this afternoon, and then decided to go ahead and counter.

The reason why I did was because I once had a job where I just took the salary offered and then spent the next 5 years paid 10% less than the guy in the cubicle next to me doing the same job. This always made me feel slightly bitter. Comparison is the thief of joy.

So, this time I figured Iíd very politely test whether there wasnít a little more to be squeezed, just to never have to dwell on what might have been, but honestly I think the offer I got was pretty fair and I really couldnít care if I got paid more or not (just donít let me see what my peers are paid). I have grown a money tree now, so the salary is just a bonus whilst I get settled back into life in Australia.

Itchy bargain for the best you can get.  Our company is nickel and dime taking away our benefits.  At least I'm currently grandfathered into the pension that hasn't been offered to new hires and rehires since 2012.  The medical benefit is currently still offered to retirees who work till age 55.  On Monday I'll be eligible to early retire without medical.   I've been looking forward to that day for 28 years.  But, at this point I'm hanging on till 2023 for my 55th birthday. There are simply no safe means to make retirement money at this point.

You should definitely counter offer. Back when I was a hiring manager in an engineering position, HR handled all the offer amounts.  They would tell me what to offer, for example $100,000.  I would then have the authority to approve up to $110,000 if the candidate made a counter.  Anything higher had to be approved by HR and the VP.  Guess what, I always accepted any counter offer up to the $110,000.  Good luck!

pecunia

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3567 on: July 31, 2020, 07:37:23 AM »
I had a discussion years ago with a human resources person.  We talked in generalities as to how things were decided.  We talked about salaries.  It was a conversation.  I was not looking to change jobs at that time.  She told me something that seemed surprising at the time.  She told me that pay is ideally just the amount to keep people at their jobs.  In other words, if it was set up right, just a bit less would cause you to quit.  The wrong amount would have been more than that.

She explained that this was good for the company.  The company could pay more, but than the balance would not be available for other things.

For some, the power of individual negotiation is strong. 

rmorris50

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3568 on: July 31, 2020, 08:01:45 AM »
I'm not a great negotiator of job offers. I am surely a little underpaid compared to my peers. However, since I hope to retire in 3 years, and this job really is to get me into a house and see my spouse and I through the current upheaval in our lives, I didn't think it was worth the effort/stress to negotiate. The offer was actually extremely similar to my old job once I accounted for the lower cost of living anyway. Heck, I'm actually saving more money now that we have moved out of MegaCity USA.

We are in a unique spot financially right now, in we have NO liabilities at the moment, all our money is in financial instruments. That'll change once we close our house currently being built though.

I'm curious, how much have people in this group pared down living expenses once retired? Are people here fat retired, or slimmed to only spending say the median average US household income?

I'm literally working right now to get into our new house, so the mortgage company doesn't throw a fit if I'm not employed. Once in the house the temptation to retire will be come high, especially once we become pretty settled in the new house.


Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3569 on: July 31, 2020, 09:01:12 AM »

I'm curious, how much have people in this group pared down living expenses once retired? Are people here fat retired, or slimmed to only spending say the median average US household income?


I think you'll get a range of answers to that one. For the two of us we spend about $32k per year post Covid. When we were travelling I think we spent somewhere nearer $52k. We don't feel we are depriving ourselves.

Of course nobody in this part of the forum is average, We have taken steps to minimise our RE taxes (we have a "farm"), paid off the mortgage, never send a car to a mechanic or hire any trades person for any reason. We have 5 sources of income in addition to about $2.3M in investments.

Using the 4% rule we could today spend about $145k/year... So a brand new C8 Corvette in addition to our most spendy year so far.. Then crash it and buy another one each and every year!

flyingaway

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3570 on: July 31, 2020, 09:41:48 AM »
I am semi-retired. Our normal spending will be about $50,000 ~ $60,000 per year. But we are targeting at least $100,000 a year for enhanced travels and entertainments in retirement.

itchyfeet

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3571 on: July 31, 2020, 12:06:10 PM »
 Iím looking for having a pretty flexible budget in retirement, expecting to spend big in some years and not much in others.

Well they havent come back on my counter yet. I have a call with the coCEO on Monday, which was set up independent of my salary offer, we shall see what he has to say.

3 weeks till I fly home to Australia. After 6 years abroad I am really looking forward to being on home turf for a bit.

rmorris50

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3572 on: July 31, 2020, 12:19:44 PM »

I'm curious, how much have people in this group pared down living expenses once retired? Are people here fat retired, or slimmed to only spending say the median average US household income?


I think you'll get a range of answers to that one. For the two of us we spend about $32k per year post Covid. When we were travelling I think we spent somewhere nearer $52k. We don't feel we are depriving ourselves.

Of course nobody in this part of the forum is average, We have taken steps to minimise our RE taxes (we have a "farm"), paid off the mortgage, never send a car to a mechanic or hire any trades person for any reason. We have 5 sources of income in addition to about $2.3M in investments.

Using the 4% rule we could today spend about $145k/year... So a brand new C8 Corvette in addition to our most spendy year so far.. Then crash it and buy another one each and every year!

No need to crash the C8 Corvettes, I'll take one off your hands!

deborah

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3573 on: July 31, 2020, 01:15:30 PM »
I probably pared down living expenses by A$10k a year in retirement. So from A$28k down to A$18k for me. This was without trying, as I had enough already. My stash has been growing each year (probably not this year, since our stock market has gone down somewhat). We have something similar to a 401k called superannuation, which is tax free in retirement, and you must take out a certain percentage each year. If you have enough in it, you canít add to it. They halved the percentage to be taken out for 2019/20 and 2020/21 (our financial and tax years are July to June), so I took advantage of that because I have enough. Our finances have always been separate, but SO is similar. Travel is an additional expense, depending on where I want to go, and how much Iíve got.

JoJoP

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3574 on: August 01, 2020, 07:45:19 AM »
We're spending more, now that we realize we've got more than enough and we can't take it with us.   We have multiple sources of income. 

Before Covid, we had an intensive travel schedule of 6+ trips a year.  That was our main indulgence and a big expense.    Much of it was Frugal travel, or as some would say, "the high low lifestyle," meaning bargain shopping for luxury as the occasion warrants.   I don't regret a moment of it. 

 Laissez les bons moments rouler! 

rmorris50

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3575 on: August 01, 2020, 08:39:14 AM »
I was curious because how long I work over the next 3 years makes a big difference on how slim or fat my retirement is. Gritting my teeth and putting up with work is a daily challenge. But I am learning I am only willing to downgrade my lifestyle so much. Heck if my spouse and I were willing to just rent a two bedroom apt for the next 10-15 years I could retire today (and presumably sell investments at that point to buy a place then). But if I work the next few years, get settled into a house, then I could retire. First world problems.

I am currently renting while our house is being built. I would lose a modest deposit if I backed out, but I also would feel guilty for doing that.

GreenEggs

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3576 on: August 01, 2020, 09:48:03 AM »
I was curious because how long I work over the next 3 years makes a big difference on how slim or fat my retirement is. Gritting my teeth and putting up with work is a daily challenge. But I am learning I am only willing to downgrade my lifestyle so much. Heck if my spouse and I were willing to just rent a two bedroom apt for the next 10-15 years I could retire today (and presumably sell investments at that point to buy a place then). But if I work the next few years, get settled into a house, then I could retire. First world problems.

I am currently renting while our house is being built. I would lose a modest deposit if I backed out, but I also would feel guilty for doing that.




How much is "enough" is such a simple question, but so hard to answer. 

Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3577 on: August 01, 2020, 10:33:37 AM »
I was curious because how long I work over the next 3 years makes a big difference on how slim or fat my retirement is. Gritting my teeth and putting up with work is a daily challenge. But I am learning I am only willing to downgrade my lifestyle so much. Heck if my spouse and I were willing to just rent a two bedroom apt for the next 10-15 years I could retire today (and presumably sell investments at that point to buy a place then). But if I work the next few years, get settled into a house, then I could retire. First world problems.

I am currently renting while our house is being built. I would lose a modest deposit if I backed out, but I also would feel guilty for doing that.




How much is "enough" is such a simple question, but so hard to answer.

"About double what you have now".. There, simple..;)

flyingaway

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3578 on: August 01, 2020, 12:36:19 PM »
I can always find something to make the enough not enough.

Last year, my wife and I found that going to casinos regularly should be a routine in our retirement, we had to add $20k to our annual spending model, and probably need to work for two more years to cover that hobby.

GreenEggs

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3579 on: August 01, 2020, 01:15:16 PM »
I can always find something to make the enough not enough.

Last year, my wife and I found that going to casinos regularly should be a routine in our retirement, we had to add $20k to our annual spending model, and probably need to work for two more years to cover that hobby.


Since you like to gamble, why don't you & the Mrs. draw straws to see who needs to keep working?   

pecunia

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3580 on: August 01, 2020, 01:46:44 PM »
Every once in a while I'll run into someone who either has or has had health problems.  After talking to them and walking away with no pain, I realize I have plenty.

rmorris50

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3581 on: August 01, 2020, 02:26:16 PM »
Every once in a while I'll run into someone who either has or has had health problems.  After talking to them and walking away with no pain, I realize I have plenty.
Very true, couldnít agree more. My logical brain knows this, but not my lizard brain.


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rmorris50

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3582 on: August 01, 2020, 02:27:27 PM »
I can always find something to make the enough not enough.

Last year, my wife and I found that going to casinos regularly should be a routine in our retirement, we had to add $20k to our annual spending model, and probably need to work for two more years to cover that hobby.
I thought I was the only on this board who like to do such an un-Mustachian thing!


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flyingaway

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3583 on: August 01, 2020, 02:39:19 PM »
I can always find something to make the enough not enough.

Last year, my wife and I found that going to casinos regularly should be a routine in our retirement, we had to add $20k to our annual spending model, and probably need to work for two more years to cover that hobby.


Since you like to gamble, why don't you & the Mrs. draw straws to see who needs to keep working?

We don't like gambling, we just view it as entertainment, fun and good food. If you know that you are bound to lose, how do you call it gambling?

flyingaway

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3584 on: August 01, 2020, 02:40:32 PM »
I can always find something to make the enough not enough.

Last year, my wife and I found that going to casinos regularly should be a routine in our retirement, we had to add $20k to our annual spending model, and probably need to work for two more years to cover that hobby.
I thought I was the only on this board who like to do such an un-Mustachian thing!


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rmorris50

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3585 on: August 01, 2020, 02:41:45 PM »
I can always find something to make the enough not enough.

Last year, my wife and I found that going to casinos regularly should be a routine in our retirement, we had to add $20k to our annual spending model, and probably need to work for two more years to cover that hobby.
I thought I was the only on this board who like to do such an un-Mustachian thing!


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If you are in this group, you are not a true Mustachian.
Touchť


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flyingaway

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3586 on: August 02, 2020, 08:56:01 AM »
The true Mustachians start talking about retirement as soon as they reach $500K.

Buffaloski Boris

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3587 on: August 02, 2020, 09:15:34 AM »
The true Mustachians start talking about retirement as soon as they reach $500K.

I thought it was $100k. Isnít $500k fat FI?

AdrianC

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3588 on: August 02, 2020, 10:12:06 AM »
Every once in a while I'll run into someone who either has or has had health problems.  After talking to them and walking away with no pain, I realize I have plenty.
Yes. Iím writing this in my wifeís hospital room. Day 4. Sheís taking a nap after getting her pain meds.

Just make sure your plenty includes a reasonable amount for healthcare. We should be good, as long as the ACA (or something similar) remains. We most definitely have a pre-existing condition. 

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3589 on: August 02, 2020, 01:19:24 PM »
Every once in a while I'll run into someone who either has or has had health problems.  After talking to them and walking away with no pain, I realize I have plenty.
Yes. Iím writing this in my wifeís hospital room. Day 4. Sheís taking a nap after getting her pain meds.

Just make sure your plenty includes a reasonable amount for healthcare. We should be good, as long as the ACA (or something similar) remains. We most definitely have a pre-existing condition.

I understand completely.   Son had cancer at 14.  He's a college graduate and working full time now.  Still has lots of issues.  The ACA kept us from bankruptcy.   Wife just had full knee replacement surgery.   She's out of work for a while and the surgery and recovery would be crazy expensive without good health coverage.   .  FIRE dream on hold till reasonable health coverage can be guaranteed.   That's at age 55.  At 52 I've already squandered away most of the good years.  Investing more lifetime seems the best answer till there is more certainty.   There is nowhere you can invest to replicate a paycheck without a high degree of risk right now.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3590 on: August 02, 2020, 03:56:29 PM »
Every once in a while I'll run into someone who either has or has had health problems.  After talking to them and walking away with no pain, I realize I have plenty.
Yes. Iím writing this in my wifeís hospital room. Day 4. Sheís taking a nap after getting her pain meds.

Just make sure your plenty includes a reasonable amount for healthcare. We should be good, as long as the ACA (or something similar) remains. We most definitely have a pre-existing condition.

Good luck with that - and I did put off retirement quite a while until the health care thing was assured.

flyingaway

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3591 on: August 02, 2020, 06:28:44 PM »
You cannot buy back good health no matter how much money you have.

Enjoy your good time while you can.

itchyfeet

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3592 on: August 03, 2020, 12:07:09 PM »
Every once in a while I'll run into someone who either has or has had health problems.  After talking to them and walking away with no pain, I realize I have plenty.
Yes. Iím writing this in my wifeís hospital room. Day 4. Sheís taking a nap after getting her pain meds.

Just make sure your plenty includes a reasonable amount for healthcare. We should be good, as long as the ACA (or something similar) remains. We most definitely have a pre-existing condition.

I understand completely.   Son had cancer at 14.  He's a college graduate and working full time now.  Still has lots of issues.  The ACA kept us from bankruptcy.   Wife just had full knee replacement surgery.   She's out of work for a while and the surgery and recovery would be crazy expensive without good health coverage.   .  FIRE dream on hold till reasonable health coverage can be guaranteed.   That's at age 55.  At 52 I've already squandered away most of the good years.  Investing more lifetime seems the best answer till there is more certainty.   There is nowhere you can invest to replicate a paycheck without a high degree of risk right now.

Sure, but itíll be forever before you run out of money so does it really matter if you spend the next 20 years chewing through savings?

... but I am a hypocrite and am trying to build Fort Knox to protect my retirement. 😂

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3593 on: August 04, 2020, 10:26:14 AM »
I've been car shopping since last year.  I'm waiting for just the right deal on the right vehicle.  Are we able to car shop nearly a year because we can afford to or can we afford to because we car shop for a year?

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3594 on: August 04, 2020, 10:51:28 AM »
I've been car shopping since last year.  I'm waiting for just the right deal on the right vehicle.  Are we able to car shop nearly a year because we can afford to or can we afford to because we car shop for a year?




If you needed one you'd have made up your mind by now.  ;)


Somebody must be buying cars these days.  I bought up a few stocks in April & LAD (a car dealership group) has been my best pick, up over 120%.   Seems like a crazy time for most folks to buy a car, but what do I know?  Maybe they used their stimulus checks.

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3595 on: August 04, 2020, 11:04:14 AM »
The time is near.  I ran from the cops Saturday because there was an inspection checkpoint.  I haven't passed inspection in two years and the repairs are more than the value of the car.

Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3596 on: August 04, 2020, 11:34:35 AM »
The time is near.  I ran from the cops Saturday because there was an inspection checkpoint.  I haven't passed inspection in two years and the repairs are more than the value of the car.

What do they do to you if your car fails an inspection?... You get stuffed into a private jet and whisked off to a CIA black site for more "questioning"?

Asking for a friend.. Plus we don't have inspections in Oregon outside of Portland.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3597 on: August 04, 2020, 11:46:36 AM »
It's about a $500 fine.  They post a huge orange sticker on your windshield and give you a week to fix and inspect the car.  They can impound the car.  Then you have towing and recovery.

 Drivers found in violation of not having an up-to-date inspection sticker face a maximum $500 penalty and possible jail time of up to six months.

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3598 on: August 04, 2020, 11:49:11 AM »
The 2008 Accord has 219000 miles.  There are 4 brands and two different size tires on it.  Multiple trouble codes including the catalytic converter.  Air conditioning only works when moving.  The struts are blown and the rear end wobbles.

Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #3599 on: August 04, 2020, 11:51:53 AM »
$500.. Geez!