Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!

[ROF Expat]

That's really cool ROF Expat!  100% agree that communication is key in FIRE.  One of the reasons I didn't ER right at FI was the complication around becoming a stay at home parent.  It made much more sense for DW to go the SAHP route once we started the expat assignments.  I was very fortunate because she was open minded and adventurous.  I was on a 'commuter assignment' to Paris around when Covid hit and haven't traveled since, so I'm back considering the options around ER...  DW and I have lots of walks and talks about it...

If you're in this $2-4m group, you should have plenty of options. 

For me, one of the factors in the decision that I didn't need to work was the realization that my contributions to my investment accounts weren't very significant to our financial trajectory.  At 50, with $2m or more invested, adding another $30k per year just doesn't make a big difference in the overall trend.  I follow this thread, but for me there's really no "race" anymore.  The time it takes to go from $2M to $4M is about growth. 

Another factor for my decision was that my wife and I both have traditional defined benefit pensions.  We expect to be able to cover all our annual expenses with pensions alone, so our withdrawal rate might be zero until we hit RMDs. 

For expats, I think it is important not to try to emulate the lifestyle of friends who are extremely wealthy.  Many are paid well and get benefits like free housing.  Instead of saving, they often spend money to look rich, but it is just a facade.  Maintaining that facade comes at the cost of long-term financial goals.     

[Freedomin5]

That's really cool ROF Expat!  100% agree that communication is key in FIRE.  One of the reasons I didn't ER right at FI was the complication around becoming a stay at home parent.  It made much more sense for DW to go the SAHP route once we started the expat assignments.  I was very fortunate because she was open minded and adventurous.  I was on a 'commuter assignment' to Paris around when Covid hit and haven't traveled since, so I'm back considering the options around ER...  DW and I have lots of walks and talks about it...

If you're in this $2-4m group, you should have plenty of options. 

For me, one of the factors in the decision that I didn't need to work was the realization that my contributions to my investment accounts weren't very significant to our financial trajectory.  At 50, with $2m or more invested, adding another $30k per year just doesn't make a big difference in the overall trend.  I follow this thread, but for me there's really no "race" anymore.  The time it takes to go from $2M to $4M is about growth. 

Another factor for my decision was that my wife and I both have traditional defined benefit pensions.  We expect to be able to cover all our annual expenses with pensions alone, so our withdrawal rate might be zero until we hit RMDs. 

For expats, I think it is important not to try to emulate the lifestyle of friends who are extremely wealthy.  Many are paid well and get benefits like free housing.  Instead of saving, they often spend money to look rich, but it is just a facade.  Maintaining that facade comes at the cost of long-term financial goals.     

So true. Or they see the firehose of cash coming in, and the lifestyle inflation just goes out of control with the luxury vacations, the maids, the dining at expensive restaurants, etc. Not necessarily to look rich, but because they want to “maximize their overseas adventure” and “take advantage of once in a lifetime opportunities”. There’s always some way to justify More Spending.

[elysianfields]

I’ve recently begun individual stocks again.  The last time I owned any was having a real estate company in 2008.  I throw $25 a week in my sandbox account.  I see it more of a way not to mess with my primary accounts vs. actually investing.

There used to be a company called Sharebuilder that I used until it shut down in in 2017. They offered a nice feature I haven't seen anywhere else - you could specify a fixed dollar amount of any share to be purchased every month. In other words, you could do fractional purchase of any share. I mainly used it to buy the Dow ETF but as a fun exercise, I allowed each of my daughters to pick one company to buy regularly: one picked Disney and the other picked Valero (since there is a Valero gas station we used to pass every day on the way to school). I used to buy $5 of each of these shares ever week on Tuesday and it has built up to a decent amount now twenty years later

Sorry to respond so late to this.

Both Schwab and Fidelity now allow you to purchase fractional shares, and of course offer dividend reinvestment.  I’m not sure you can set it up as automagically as with Sharebuilder back in the day.

[Fomerly known as something]

That's really cool ROF Expat!  100% agree that communication is key in FIRE.  One of the reasons I didn't ER right at FI was the complication around becoming a stay at home parent.  It made much more sense for DW to go the SAHP route once we started the expat assignments.  I was very fortunate because she was open minded and adventurous.  I was on a 'commuter assignment' to Paris around when Covid hit and haven't traveled since, so I'm back considering the options around ER...  DW and I have lots of walks and talks about it...

If you're in this $2-4m group, you should have plenty of options. 

For me, one of the factors in the decision that I didn't need to work was the realization that my contributions to my investment accounts weren't very significant to our financial trajectory.  At 50, with $2m or more invested, adding another $30k per year just doesn't make a big difference in the overall trend.  I follow this thread, but for me there's really no "race" anymore.  The time it takes to go from $2M to $4M is about growth. 

Another factor for my decision was that my wife and I both have traditional defined benefit pensions.  We expect to be able to cover all our annual expenses with pensions alone, so our withdrawal rate might be zero until we hit RMDs. 

For expats, I think it is important not to try to emulate the lifestyle of friends who are extremely wealthy.  Many are paid well and get benefits like free housing.  Instead of saving, they often spend money to look rich, but it is just a facade.  Maintaining that facade comes at the cost of long-term financial goals.     

So true. Or they see the firehose of cash coming in, and the lifestyle inflation just goes out of control with the luxury vacations, the maids, the dining at expensive restaurants, etc. Not necessarily to look rich, but because they want to “maximize their overseas adventure” and “take advantage of once in a lifetime opportunities”. There’s always some way to justify More Spending.

I actually think this is why Financial Samurai is like what he is.  His tween/early teen years were as an ExPat living overseas with his Department of State parents.  In a country where the embassy staff is encouraged to have local staff and where he was going to the “American School” with wealthy locals.  And then they moved to DC  for an HQ job and he had to go to regular public school, no staff at home either.

[farmecologist]

Well, it happened...BOTH kids graduated from college over the last couple weeks! 

First it was off to Minneapolis for our son's graduation ( double BS in Physics/Astrophysics ).  He is off to Dartmouth in the fall with a fully paid PHD gig in space physics ( it also includes a stipend & healthcare ).  It was also nice that he was able to experience an actual graduation, as he only had a "drive by" high school graduation because of covid.

Then it was off to Chapel Hill, NC where our daughter graduated with a masters in social work to become a licenced therapist.  She already has job offers.

We then took a few days and did a a road trip to Charleston, SC with our daughter.  Cool city...I recommend it!  They have a "tour pass" you can purchase to see all of the major and not-so-major attractions in the area.  It ended up saving us a boatload on tickets.

So cool to see that our "plan" actually panned out.  Feels a bit surreal to have the kids "launched" into the next phase of their lives!

[Turtle]

Congratulations to them both!  I'm glad for your sakes that there wasn't a schedule conflict between the two events.

[couponvan]

I love a happy college success story! Congratulations on having them launched and productively moving forward.

[MaybeBabyMustache]

wow, @farmecologist - that is awesome! Congratulations to your family. As someone who has a HS junior & senior, it feels surreal to be at that point, but you all did it! Well done.

[2sk22]

Thats a great milestone @farmecologist- we are almost there too. My older one is working on her PhD (and gets a great stipend) while the younger one just finished her junior year at college and is doing her second internship at a Silicon Valley company. Both daughters already have substantial balances in their brokerage accounts and Roth IRAs!

[SEAK]

If there is one thing we're lacking financially it's cash/taxable accounts. We poured everything into 401K, IRA and non income producing real estate. I'm actually receiving my pension now. The pension is enough to pay most of the expenses, but not all. There is a decent buffer of cash, probably more than enough for quite a while. I'm just wanting a bit larger cash float than current. So using the Rule of 55, I'm taking a small draw from my 401K.  I figured I could do this electronically and just use my 401K like a checking account. Unfortunately it's not that simple. It requires the filing of 5 paper documents each time you take a distribution. You can fax the papers to Schwab, I used a stamp. So I'm using the Pony Express to request funds in 2024. Once you reach 59.5 years of age it will get simpler. You can roll over to an IRA and draw without penalties from your account online. Anybody else have to do this? Just seems a bit archaic.

We're in this same situation, most everything is stashed away in 401K, 457b, ROTH, and pensions. We have very little (<$25k) in cash/taxable accounts. Seems like a hole in our financial plan.

[Dicey]

If there is one thing we're lacking financially it's cash/taxable accounts. We poured everything into 401K, IRA and non income producing real estate. I'm actually receiving my pension now. The pension is enough to pay most of the expenses, but not all. There is a decent buffer of cash, probably more than enough for quite a while. I'm just wanting a bit larger cash float than current. So using the Rule of 55, I'm taking a small draw from my 401K.  I figured I could do this electronically and just use my 401K like a checking account. Unfortunately it's not that simple. It requires the filing of 5 paper documents each time you take a distribution. You can fax the papers to Schwab, I used a stamp. So I'm using the Pony Express to request funds in 2024. Once you reach 59.5 years of age it will get simpler. You can roll over to an IRA and draw without penalties from your account online. Anybody else have to do this? Just seems a bit archaic.

We're in this same situation, most everything is stashed away in 401K, 457b, ROTH, and pensions. We have very little (<$25k) in cash/taxable accounts. Seems like a hole in our financial plan.

Well, you can kick yourselves, or you can just figure it out. Paying taxes isn't the worst thing in the world. You've won the game.

[SEAK]

If there is one thing we're lacking financially it's cash/taxable accounts. We poured everything into 401K, IRA and non income producing real estate. I'm actually receiving my pension now. The pension is enough to pay most of the expenses, but not all. There is a decent buffer of cash, probably more than enough for quite a while. I'm just wanting a bit larger cash float than current. So using the Rule of 55, I'm taking a small draw from my 401K.  I figured I could do this electronically and just use my 401K like a checking account. Unfortunately it's not that simple. It requires the filing of 5 paper documents each time you take a distribution. You can fax the papers to Schwab, I used a stamp. So I'm using the Pony Express to request funds in 2024. Once you reach 59.5 years of age it will get simpler. You can roll over to an IRA and draw without penalties from your account online. Anybody else have to do this? Just seems a bit archaic.

We're in this same situation, most everything is stashed away in 401K, 457b, ROTH, and pensions. We have very little (<$25k) in cash/taxable accounts. Seems like a hole in our financial plan.

Well, you can kick yourselves, or you can just figure it out. Paying taxes isn't the worst thing in the world. You've won the game.

I've always been of the mindset to put everything into "tax advantaged accounts". What are the advantages to taxable accounts? More flexibility I guess is one the major advantages. I know the advantage of cash!

[farmecologist]

Thats a great milestone @farmecologist- we are almost there too. My older one is working on her PhD (and gets a great stipend) while the younger one just finished her junior year at college and is doing her second internship at a Silicon Valley company. Both daughters already have substantial balances in their brokerage accounts and Roth IRAs!

@Turtle @couponvan @MaybeBabyMustache @2sk22 @SEAK

Also forgot to add that both of their significant others graduated as well...but we missed those due to scheduling conflicts with our kids graduations.  We could only do so much...lol. 

Our son told us that the the Dartmouth student union is "negotiating" with the school for a bump in the stipend.  Looks like a very good chance it will be bumped from $40k to somewhere around $46K-$50K.  And that will be welcome because the housing situation sucks there...and is expensive!

[Turtle]

If there is one thing we're lacking financially it's cash/taxable accounts. We poured everything into 401K, IRA and non income producing real estate. I'm actually receiving my pension now. The pension is enough to pay most of the expenses, but not all. There is a decent buffer of cash, probably more than enough for quite a while. I'm just wanting a bit larger cash float than current. So using the Rule of 55, I'm taking a small draw from my 401K.  I figured I could do this electronically and just use my 401K like a checking account. Unfortunately it's not that simple. It requires the filing of 5 paper documents each time you take a distribution. You can fax the papers to Schwab, I used a stamp. So I'm using the Pony Express to request funds in 2024. Once you reach 59.5 years of age it will get simpler. You can roll over to an IRA and draw without penalties from your account online. Anybody else have to do this? Just seems a bit archaic.

We're in this same situation, most everything is stashed away in 401K, 457b, ROTH, and pensions. We have very little (<$25k) in cash/taxable accounts. Seems like a hole in our financial plan.

Well, you can kick yourselves, or you can just figure it out. Paying taxes isn't the worst thing in the world. You've won the game.

I've always been of the mindset to put everything into "tax advantaged accounts". What are the advantages to taxable accounts? More flexibility I guess is one the major advantages. I know the advantage of cash!

It depends how far away you are from being able to pull from tax advantaged accounts without any tax penalty.  I'll be retiring about a year before I hit 59.5, but if I were trying to retire 5 years earlier the fact that 90+% of my savings is 401k/IRA might have been an issue.

[farmecologist]

If there is one thing we're lacking financially it's cash/taxable accounts. We poured everything into 401K, IRA and non income producing real estate. I'm actually receiving my pension now. The pension is enough to pay most of the expenses, but not all. There is a decent buffer of cash, probably more than enough for quite a while. I'm just wanting a bit larger cash float than current. So using the Rule of 55, I'm taking a small draw from my 401K.  I figured I could do this electronically and just use my 401K like a checking account. Unfortunately it's not that simple. It requires the filing of 5 paper documents each time you take a distribution. You can fax the papers to Schwab, I used a stamp. So I'm using the Pony Express to request funds in 2024. Once you reach 59.5 years of age it will get simpler. You can roll over to an IRA and draw without penalties from your account online. Anybody else have to do this? Just seems a bit archaic.

We're in this same situation, most everything is stashed away in 401K, 457b, ROTH, and pensions. We have very little (<$25k) in cash/taxable accounts. Seems like a hole in our financial plan.

Well, you can kick yourselves, or you can just figure it out. Paying taxes isn't the worst thing in the world. You've won the game.

I've always been of the mindset to put everything into "tax advantaged accounts". What are the advantages to taxable accounts? More flexibility I guess is one the major advantages. I know the advantage of cash!

It depends how far away you are from being able to pull from tax advantaged accounts without any tax penalty.  I'll be retiring about a year before I hit 59.5, but if I were trying to retire 5 years earlier the fact that 90+% of my savings is 401k/IRA might have been an issue.

The "rule of 55" is often overlooked for penalty-free 401k withdrawals as well.  One of the reasons I'm holding out till 55 until I consider retiring.   

https://www.schwab.com/learn/story/retiring-early-5-key-points-about-rule-55

[secondcor521]

If there is one thing we're lacking financially it's cash/taxable accounts. We poured everything into 401K, IRA and non income producing real estate. I'm actually receiving my pension now. The pension is enough to pay most of the expenses, but not all. There is a decent buffer of cash, probably more than enough for quite a while. I'm just wanting a bit larger cash float than current. So using the Rule of 55, I'm taking a small draw from my 401K.  I figured I could do this electronically and just use my 401K like a checking account. Unfortunately it's not that simple. It requires the filing of 5 paper documents each time you take a distribution. You can fax the papers to Schwab, I used a stamp. So I'm using the Pony Express to request funds in 2024. Once you reach 59.5 years of age it will get simpler. You can roll over to an IRA and draw without penalties from your account online. Anybody else have to do this? Just seems a bit archaic.

We're in this same situation, most everything is stashed away in 401K, 457b, ROTH, and pensions. We have very little (<$25k) in cash/taxable accounts. Seems like a hole in our financial plan.

Well, you can kick yourselves, or you can just figure it out. Paying taxes isn't the worst thing in the world. You've won the game.

I've always been of the mindset to put everything into "tax advantaged accounts". What are the advantages to taxable accounts? More flexibility I guess is one the major advantages. I know the advantage of cash!

It depends how far away you are from being able to pull from tax advantaged accounts without any tax penalty.  I'll be retiring about a year before I hit 59.5, but if I were trying to retire 5 years earlier the fact that 90+% of my savings is 401k/IRA might have been an issue.

The "rule of 55" is often overlooked for penalty-free 401k withdrawals as well.  One of the reasons I'm holding out till 55 until I consider retiring.   

https://www.schwab.com/learn/story/retiring-early-5-key-points-about-rule-55

Two more options:  (1) Roth conversion ladders, and (2) just paying the penalty.

[couponvan]

Thank you for that link.  I was just talking about it with a 57 YO coworker that got RIF on Friday.  If she doesn't find a new job by January, this is a solid option for her.  I forwarded it to her today.

[Louise]

If there is one thing we're lacking financially it's cash/taxable accounts. We poured everything into 401K, IRA and non income producing real estate. I'm actually receiving my pension now. The pension is enough to pay most of the expenses, but not all. There is a decent buffer of cash, probably more than enough for quite a while. I'm just wanting a bit larger cash float than current. So using the Rule of 55, I'm taking a small draw from my 401K.  I figured I could do this electronically and just use my 401K like a checking account. Unfortunately it's not that simple. It requires the filing of 5 paper documents each time you take a distribution. You can fax the papers to Schwab, I used a stamp. So I'm using the Pony Express to request funds in 2024. Once you reach 59.5 years of age it will get simpler. You can roll over to an IRA and draw without penalties from your account online. Anybody else have to do this? Just seems a bit archaic.

We're in this same situation, most everything is stashed away in 401K, 457b, ROTH, and pensions. We have very little (<$25k) in cash/taxable accounts. Seems like a hole in our financial plan.

Us too. My spouse is over 59.5 though, so we won't pay a penalty if we withdraw money from his IRA. He is also still working, but thinking about retiring. I have a kid in HS and ACA to worry about for the next 12-13 years. I'm wondering if it's helpful to build a larger cash cushion in case we need to smooth our income. It's been hard to build up cash because after maxing out his 401K and HSA, whatever money we have left over has been going into our Roths. Oh, plus funding a couple post Covid vacations lol.

[Much Fishing to Do]

Well, the Roth contributions are always available to anyone.  This is one of the reasons I had a Roth in the mix.  If I don't touch it in my lifetime it was a great saver, but if I need it at any age it is there with few consequences.  Its still crazy to me that early Roth withdrawals assume contributions first instead of a pro rata....one of the few times the IRS makes it both easy and nice...

All that said I ended up with so many years of no 401k avail and then my best years being able to save much more than limits that my taxable will easily get me past 59 and probably get me to 70.

I think it all finally hit me when my wife was fretting over some purchase and I was confidently able to say that all she's really doing is reducing the kids' inheritance by that much (I know she HATES thinking the kids will just be handed the millionaire status.... so that ended that conversation.....)

[2sk22]

Well, the Roth contributions are always available to anyone.  This is one of the reasons I had a Roth in the mix.  If I don't touch it in my lifetime it was a great saver, but if I need it at any age it is there with few consequences.  Its still crazy to me that early Roth withdrawals assume contributions first instead of a pro rata....one of the few times the IRS makes it both easy and nice...

All that said I ended up with so many years of no 401k avail and then my best years being able to save much more than limits that my taxable will easily get me past 59 and probably get me to 70.

I think it all finally hit me when my wife was fretting over some purchase and I was confidently able to say that all she's really doing is reducing the kids' inheritance by that much (I know she HATES thinking the kids will just be handed the millionaire status.... so that ended that conversation.....)

There is a an upper limit for contributions to Roth IRAs - for 2024 it's $240k for married filing jointly. See https://www.fidelity.com/learning-center/smart-money/roth-ira-income-limits

In fact, for this reason, throughout our careers, we have not been able to contribute to Roth accounts. As a consequence we have built up a large balance in our taxable brokerage account since we always maxed out our respective 401Ks

[ixtap]

If there is one thing we're lacking financially it's cash/taxable accounts. We poured everything into 401K, IRA and non income producing real estate. I'm actually receiving my pension now. The pension is enough to pay most of the expenses, but not all. There is a decent buffer of cash, probably more than enough for quite a while. I'm just wanting a bit larger cash float than current. So using the Rule of 55, I'm taking a small draw from my 401K.  I figured I could do this electronically and just use my 401K like a checking account. Unfortunately it's not that simple. It requires the filing of 5 paper documents each time you take a distribution. You can fax the papers to Schwab, I used a stamp. So I'm using the Pony Express to request funds in 2024. Once you reach 59.5 years of age it will get simpler. You can roll over to an IRA and draw without penalties from your account online. Anybody else have to do this? Just seems a bit archaic.

We're in this same situation, most everything is stashed away in 401K, 457b, ROTH, and pensions. We have very little (<$25k) in cash/taxable accounts. Seems like a hole in our financial plan.

Well, you can kick yourselves, or you can just figure it out. Paying taxes isn't the worst thing in the world. You've won the game.

I've always been of the mindset to put everything into "tax advantaged accounts". What are the advantages to taxable accounts? More flexibility I guess is one the major advantages. I know the advantage of cash!

It depends how far away you are from being able to pull from tax advantaged accounts without any tax penalty.  I'll be retiring about a year before I hit 59.5, but if I were trying to retire 5 years earlier the fact that 90+% of my savings is 401k/IRA might have been an issue.

The "rule of 55" is often overlooked for penalty-free 401k withdrawals as well.  One of the reasons I'm holding out till 55 until I consider retiring.   

https://www.schwab.com/learn/story/retiring-early-5-key-points-about-rule-55

Two more options:  (1) Roth conversion ladders, and (2) just paying the penalty.

3) SEPP

But let's not underestimate option 2. It may not be optimal, but if you defer at 32% and pull it out at 22% bracket, the tax deferred is still ahead from taxable because you didn't experience tax drag, particularly when you were subject to NIIT.

[Fomerly known as something]

If there is one thing we're lacking financially it's cash/taxable accounts. We poured everything into 401K, IRA and non income producing real estate. I'm actually receiving my pension now. The pension is enough to pay most of the expenses, but not all. There is a decent buffer of cash, probably more than enough for quite a while. I'm just wanting a bit larger cash float than current. So using the Rule of 55, I'm taking a small draw from my 401K.  I figured I could do this electronically and just use my 401K like a checking account. Unfortunately it's not that simple. It requires the filing of 5 paper documents each time you take a distribution. You can fax the papers to Schwab, I used a stamp. So I'm using the Pony Express to request funds in 2024. Once you reach 59.5 years of age it will get simpler. You can roll over to an IRA and draw without penalties from your account online. Anybody else have to do this? Just seems a bit archaic.

We're in this same situation, most everything is stashed away in 401K, 457b, ROTH, and pensions. We have very little (<$25k) in cash/taxable accounts. Seems like a hole in our financial plan.

Well, you can kick yourselves, or you can just figure it out. Paying taxes isn't the worst thing in the world. You've won the game.

I've always been of the mindset to put everything into "tax advantaged accounts". What are the advantages to taxable accounts? More flexibility I guess is one the major advantages. I know the advantage of cash!

It depends how far away you are from being able to pull from tax advantaged accounts without any tax penalty.  I'll be retiring about a year before I hit 59.5, but if I were trying to retire 5 years earlier the fact that 90+% of my savings is 401k/IRA might have been an issue.

The "rule of 55" is often overlooked for penalty-free 401k withdrawals as well.  One of the reasons I'm holding out till 55 until I consider retiring.   

https://www.schwab.com/learn/story/retiring-early-5-key-points-about-rule-55

Two more options:  (1) Roth conversion ladders, and (2) just paying the penalty.

Or 72T withdrawals,  there is a formal for taking substantially equal payments that avoid the penalty starting at any age.

[Much Fishing to Do]

Well, the Roth contributions are always available to anyone.  This is one of the reasons I had a Roth in the mix.  If I don't touch it in my lifetime it was a great saver, but if I need it at any age it is there with few consequences.  Its still crazy to me that early Roth withdrawals assume contributions first instead of a pro rata....one of the few times the IRS makes it both easy and nice...

All that said I ended up with so many years of no 401k avail and then my best years being able to save much more than limits that my taxable will easily get me past 59 and probably get me to 70.

I think it all finally hit me when my wife was fretting over some purchase and I was confidently able to say that all she's really doing is reducing the kids' inheritance by that much (I know she HATES thinking the kids will just be handed the millionaire status.... so that ended that conversation.....)

There is a an upper limit for contributions to Roth IRAs - for 2024 it's $240k for married filing jointly. See https://www.fidelity.com/learning-center/smart-money/roth-ira-income-limits

In fact, for this reason, throughout our careers, we have not been able to contribute to Roth accounts. As a consequence we have built up a large balance in our taxable brokerage account since we always maxed out our respective 401Ks

Sorry, I spoke poorly, by "Roth contributions are always available to anyone" I meant the money contributed is available to withdraw (as opposed to the earnings piece), even if under 59. 

Most of my Roth money did come from early horrible earning years because of the limits, though I did get some added with a solo Roth 401k that i eventually rolled into the old Roth at some point.

[farmecologist]

Well, the Roth contributions are always available to anyone.  This is one of the reasons I had a Roth in the mix.  If I don't touch it in my lifetime it was a great saver, but if I need it at any age it is there with few consequences.  Its still crazy to me that early Roth withdrawals assume contributions first instead of a pro rata....one of the few times the IRS makes it both easy and nice...

All that said I ended up with so many years of no 401k avail and then my best years being able to save much more than limits that my taxable will easily get me past 59 and probably get me to 70.

I think it all finally hit me when my wife was fretting over some purchase and I was confidently able to say that all she's really doing is reducing the kids' inheritance by that much (I know she HATES thinking the kids will just be handed the millionaire status.... so that ended that conversation.....)

There is a an upper limit for contributions to Roth IRAs - for 2024 it's $240k for married filing jointly. See https://www.fidelity.com/learning-center/smart-money/roth-ira-income-limits

In fact, for this reason, throughout our careers, we have not been able to contribute to Roth accounts. As a consequence we have built up a large balance in our taxable brokerage account since we always maxed out our respective 401Ks

Sorry, I spoke poorly, by "Roth contributions are always available to anyone" I meant the money contributed is available to withdraw (as opposed to the earnings piece), even if under 59. 

Most of my Roth money did come from early horrible earning years because of the limits, though I did get some added with a solo Roth 401k that i eventually rolled into the old Roth at some point.

If your company offers it, "backdoor Roth IRAs" are an awesome loophole for high income earners.  No income limits.  In fact, I'm doing it right now, and my 401k provider does an automatic "instant" rollover to minimize tax implications.

https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/investing/backdoor-roth-ira

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Well, the Roth contributions are always available to anyone.  This is one of the reasons I had a Roth in the mix.  If I don't touch it in my lifetime it was a great saver, but if I need it at any age it is there with few consequences.  Its still crazy to me that early Roth withdrawals assume contributions first instead of a pro rata....one of the few times the IRS makes it both easy and nice...

All that said I ended up with so many years of no 401k avail and then my best years being able to save much more than limits that my taxable will easily get me past 59 and probably get me to 70.

I think it all finally hit me when my wife was fretting over some purchase and I was confidently able to say that all she's really doing is reducing the kids' inheritance by that much (I know she HATES thinking the kids will just be handed the millionaire status.... so that ended that conversation.....)

There is a an upper limit for contributions to Roth IRAs - for 2024 it's $240k for married filing jointly. See https://www.fidelity.com/learning-center/smart-money/roth-ira-income-limits

In fact, for this reason, throughout our careers, we have not been able to contribute to Roth accounts. As a consequence we have built up a large balance in our taxable brokerage account since we always maxed out our respective 401Ks

Sorry, I spoke poorly, by "Roth contributions are always available to anyone" I meant the money contributed is available to withdraw (as opposed to the earnings piece), even if under 59. 

Most of my Roth money did come from early horrible earning years because of the limits, though I did get some added with a solo Roth 401k that i eventually rolled into the old Roth at some point.

If your company offers it, "backdoor Roth IRAs" are an awesome loophole for high income earners.  No income limits.  In fact, I'm doing it right now, and my 401k provider does an automatic "instant" rollover to minimize tax implications.

https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/investing/backdoor-roth-ira

Caveat with mega-backdoor Roth IRAs - if you are at a high marginal rate now, you might be at a lower marginal rate in retirement.  Paying a 30+% tax now just to have tax free gains might not get you ahead.  It's very similar to the 'Roth conversion' thought process, only you are stuck during your W-2 years at probably the highest rates of your life (depending on future tax rates, etc.)  - Costly Roth Conversion Mistakes and How to Avoid Them

[ixtap]

Well, the Roth contributions are always available to anyone.  This is one of the reasons I had a Roth in the mix.  If I don't touch it in my lifetime it was a great saver, but if I need it at any age it is there with few consequences.  Its still crazy to me that early Roth withdrawals assume contributions first instead of a pro rata....one of the few times the IRS makes it both easy and nice...

All that said I ended up with so many years of no 401k avail and then my best years being able to save much more than limits that my taxable will easily get me past 59 and probably get me to 70.

I think it all finally hit me when my wife was fretting over some purchase and I was confidently able to say that all she's really doing is reducing the kids' inheritance by that much (I know she HATES thinking the kids will just be handed the millionaire status.... so that ended that conversation.....)

There is a an upper limit for contributions to Roth IRAs - for 2024 it's $240k for married filing jointly. See https://www.fidelity.com/learning-center/smart-money/roth-ira-income-limits

In fact, for this reason, throughout our careers, we have not been able to contribute to Roth accounts. As a consequence we have built up a large balance in our taxable brokerage account since we always maxed out our respective 401Ks

Sorry, I spoke poorly, by "Roth contributions are always available to anyone" I meant the money contributed is available to withdraw (as opposed to the earnings piece), even if under 59. 

Most of my Roth money did come from early horrible earning years because of the limits, though I did get some added with a solo Roth 401k that i eventually rolled into the old Roth at some point.

If your company offers it, "backdoor Roth IRAs" are an awesome loophole for high income earners.  No income limits.  In fact, I'm doing it right now, and my 401k provider does an automatic "instant" rollover to minimize tax implications.

https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/investing/backdoor-roth-ira

Caveat with mega-backdoor Roth IRAs - if you are at a high marginal rate now, you might be at a lower marginal rate in retirement.  Paying a 30+% tax now just to have tax free gains might not get you ahead.  It's very similar to the 'Roth conversion' thought process, only you are stuck during your W-2 years at probably the highest rates of your life (depending on future tax rates, etc.)  - Costly Roth Conversion Mistakes and How to Avoid Them

Most indulge in the MBR after maxing out other tax sheltered options. At that point, it is a choice between MBR and taxable, rather than Roth vs traditional. You pay the 30% or whatever either way, but in taxable you have additional taxes due. We may well be in the 0% LTCG during retirement, but the MBR has already saved us thousands in taxes during the accumulation phase.

[farmecologist]

Well, the Roth contributions are always available to anyone.  This is one of the reasons I had a Roth in the mix.  If I don't touch it in my lifetime it was a great saver, but if I need it at any age it is there with few consequences.  Its still crazy to me that early Roth withdrawals assume contributions first instead of a pro rata....one of the few times the IRS makes it both easy and nice...

All that said I ended up with so many years of no 401k avail and then my best years being able to save much more than limits that my taxable will easily get me past 59 and probably get me to 70.

I think it all finally hit me when my wife was fretting over some purchase and I was confidently able to say that all she's really doing is reducing the kids' inheritance by that much (I know she HATES thinking the kids will just be handed the millionaire status.... so that ended that conversation.....)

There is a an upper limit for contributions to Roth IRAs - for 2024 it's $240k for married filing jointly. See https://www.fidelity.com/learning-center/smart-money/roth-ira-income-limits

In fact, for this reason, throughout our careers, we have not been able to contribute to Roth accounts. As a consequence we have built up a large balance in our taxable brokerage account since we always maxed out our respective 401Ks

Sorry, I spoke poorly, by "Roth contributions are always available to anyone" I meant the money contributed is available to withdraw (as opposed to the earnings piece), even if under 59. 

Most of my Roth money did come from early horrible earning years because of the limits, though I did get some added with a solo Roth 401k that i eventually rolled into the old Roth at some point.

If your company offers it, "backdoor Roth IRAs" are an awesome loophole for high income earners.  No income limits.  In fact, I'm doing it right now, and my 401k provider does an automatic "instant" rollover to minimize tax implications.

https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/investing/backdoor-roth-ira

Caveat with mega-backdoor Roth IRAs - if you are at a high marginal rate now, you might be at a lower marginal rate in retirement.  Paying a 30+% tax now just to have tax free gains might not get you ahead.  It's very similar to the 'Roth conversion' thought process, only you are stuck during your W-2 years at probably the highest rates of your life (depending on future tax rates, etc.)  - Costly Roth Conversion Mistakes and How to Avoid Them

Most indulge in the MBR after maxing out other tax sheltered options. At that point, it is a choice between MBR and taxable, rather than Roth vs traditional. You pay the 30% or whatever either way, but in taxable you have additional taxes due. We may well be in the 0% LTCG during retirement, but the MBR has already saved us thousands in taxes during the accumulation phase.

Yep...I forgot to add that point.  My backdoor Roth contributions are excess savings after maxing out my traditional 401k.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Well, the Roth contributions are always available to anyone.  This is one of the reasons I had a Roth in the mix.  If I don't touch it in my lifetime it was a great saver, but if I need it at any age it is there with few consequences.  Its still crazy to me that early Roth withdrawals assume contributions first instead of a pro rata....one of the few times the IRS makes it both easy and nice...

All that said I ended up with so many years of no 401k avail and then my best years being able to save much more than limits that my taxable will easily get me past 59 and probably get me to 70.

I think it all finally hit me when my wife was fretting over some purchase and I was confidently able to say that all she's really doing is reducing the kids' inheritance by that much (I know she HATES thinking the kids will just be handed the millionaire status.... so that ended that conversation.....)

There is a an upper limit for contributions to Roth IRAs - for 2024 it's $240k for married filing jointly. See https://www.fidelity.com/learning-center/smart-money/roth-ira-income-limits

In fact, for this reason, throughout our careers, we have not been able to contribute to Roth accounts. As a consequence we have built up a large balance in our taxable brokerage account since we always maxed out our respective 401Ks

Sorry, I spoke poorly, by "Roth contributions are always available to anyone" I meant the money contributed is available to withdraw (as opposed to the earnings piece), even if under 59. 

Most of my Roth money did come from early horrible earning years because of the limits, though I did get some added with a solo Roth 401k that i eventually rolled into the old Roth at some point.

If your company offers it, "backdoor Roth IRAs" are an awesome loophole for high income earners.  No income limits.  In fact, I'm doing it right now, and my 401k provider does an automatic "instant" rollover to minimize tax implications.

https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/investing/backdoor-roth-ira

Caveat with mega-backdoor Roth IRAs - if you are at a high marginal rate now, you might be at a lower marginal rate in retirement.  Paying a 30+% tax now just to have tax free gains might not get you ahead.  It's very similar to the 'Roth conversion' thought process, only you are stuck during your W-2 years at probably the highest rates of your life (depending on future tax rates, etc.)  - Costly Roth Conversion Mistakes and How to Avoid Them

Most indulge in the MBR after maxing out other tax sheltered options. At that point, it is a choice between MBR and taxable, rather than Roth vs traditional. You pay the 30% or whatever either way, but in taxable you have additional taxes due. We may well be in the 0% LTCG during retirement, but the MBR has already saved us thousands in taxes during the accumulation phase.

Yep...I forgot to add that point.  My backdoor Roth contributions are excess savings after maxing out my traditional 401k.

How much are people still saving above and beyond the tax advantaged options?  e.g. how much mega-back door Roth contributing are people in this cohort doing?  I'm just interested...

[2KidFIRE]

How much are people still saving above and beyond the tax advantaged options?  e.g. how much mega-back door Roth contributing are people in this cohort doing?  I'm just interested...

Last year (2023) we had ~$42,000 in "excess" cash after all of our expenses/spending, maxing out 401k contributions, kids 529 contributions, taxes, etc.  This money usually just goes into our after-tax brokerage accounts.

[Fomerly known as something]

After retirement accounts last year I sent about $15k to my taxable account and $5-10k to cash.

[ixtap]

How much are people still saving above and beyond the tax advantaged options?  e.g. how much mega-back door Roth contributing are people in this cohort doing?  I'm just interested...

Saving and contributing are not quite the same and MBR is still tax advantaged. We are right on the edge after 401k/MBR, Roth IRA x 2 and HSA: more likely to have to sell to cover expenses than to have anything left to send to taxable. I don't even reinvest dividends in taxable since downshifting, trying to eek out all the tax advantaged space without having to sell equities. I call it cash flow practice, but with RSUS or ESPP coming every few months, it is nothing like having no income, we just have lumpy income.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

How much are people still saving above and beyond the tax advantaged options?  e.g. how much mega-back door Roth contributing are people in this cohort doing?  I'm just interested...

Saving and contributing are not quite the same and MBR is still tax advantaged. We are right on the edge after 401k/MBR, Roth IRA x 2 and HSA: more likely to have to sell to cover expenses than to have anything left to send to taxable. I don't even reinvest dividends in taxable since downshifting, trying to eek out all the tax advantaged space without having to sell equities. I call it cash flow practice, but with RSUS or ESPP coming every few months, it is nothing like having no income, we just have lumpy income.

Good points, this wasn't meant to be a scientific poll.  I suppose I should also have put my own situation out there.  I don't have access to a MBR, just 401k or Roth 401k, so I max out the 401k (including catch-up, so $30,500 plus 6% match).  Max HSA ($8,300).  Discontinued 529's now that kids are in college.  $20k in to i-bonds each year.  I'm too lazy to back-door Roth anymore, but have a pretty healthy Roth from years of contributions and an aggressive allocation.  Usually ~$100k after tax for ESPP and from my annual bonus that goes in to X-factor investments (currently private equity). 

I'll probably have to use Qualified Charitable Distributions to lower 401k RMD taxation as well as a Qualified Charitable Trust for my kids, depending on tax laws in my later years...  Planning on Roth conversions between retirement and 75, and delaying SS as long as possible.

[2sk22]

Good points, this wasn't meant to be a scientific poll.  I suppose I should also have put my own situation out there.  I don't have access to a MBR, just 401k or Roth 401k, so I max out the 401k (including catch-up, so $30,500 plus 6% match).  Max HSA ($8,300).  Discontinued 529's now that kids are in college.  $20k in to i-bonds each year.  I'm too lazy to back-door Roth anymore, but have a pretty healthy Roth from years of contributions and an aggressive allocation.  Usually ~$100k after tax for ESPP and from my annual bonus that goes in to X-factor investments (currently private equity). 

I'll probably have to use Qualified Charitable Distributions to lower 401k RMD taxation as well as a Qualified Charitable Trust for my kids, depending on tax laws in my later years...  Planning on Roth conversions between retirement and 75, and delaying SS as long as possible.

I started working in the early 1990s long before Roth IRAs were even a thing - Roth IRAs were introduced only in sometime in the late 1990s! In any case, we have a similar situation. None of the companies that I or my wife worked for facilitated the mega backdoor Roth maneuver so after maxing out our respective 401Ks, we simply invested in our regular brokerage account.

But even a regular brokerage is not a bad option really - when selling shares, by selecting lots, I can balance out capital gains and losses :-)

[Fomerly known as something]

Good points, this wasn't meant to be a scientific poll.  I suppose I should also have put my own situation out there.  I don't have access to a MBR, just 401k or Roth 401k, so I max out the 401k (including catch-up, so $30,500 plus 6% match).  Max HSA ($8,300).  Discontinued 529's now that kids are in college.  $20k in to i-bonds each year.  I'm too lazy to back-door Roth anymore, but have a pretty healthy Roth from years of contributions and an aggressive allocation.  Usually ~$100k after tax for ESPP and from my annual bonus that goes in to X-factor investments (currently private equity). 

I'll probably have to use Qualified Charitable Distributions to lower 401k RMD taxation as well as a Qualified Charitable Trust for my kids, depending on tax laws in my later years...  Planning on Roth conversions between retirement and 75, and delaying SS as long as possible.

I started working in the early 1990s long before Roth IRAs were even a thing - Roth IRAs were introduced only in sometime in the late 1990s! In any case, we have a similar situation. None of the companies that I or my wife worked for facilitated the mega backdoor Roth maneuver so after maxing out our respective 401Ks, we simply invested in our regular brokerage account.

But even a regular brokerage is not a bad option really - when selling shares, by selecting lots, I can balance out capital gains and losses :-)

Well and there were opportunities to tax loss harvest along the way as well.  A couple of years ago I was able to harvest about 50k moving between the CA tax advantage bond and the federally tax advantaged bond funds.

[2sk22]

Hope this helps some of you. An excellent article by Mike Piper on the uncertainties related to tax planning around Roth conversions. I had been obsessing about this recently but reading this article helped me get back to working on some more fun stuff :-)

[Exflyboy]

Hope this helps some of you. An excellent article by Mike Piper on the uncertainties related to tax planning around Roth conversions. I had been obsessing about this recently but reading this article helped me get back to working on some more fun stuff :-)

The biggest uncertainty is "Will you actually make it to RMD age in the first place"... On that somewhat morbid note I'm going back to a fun project in my shop..:)

[Dicey]

Hope this helps some of you. An excellent article by Mike Piper on the uncertainties related to tax planning around Roth conversions. I had been obsessing about this recently but reading this article helped me get back to working on some more fun stuff :-)

The biggest uncertainty is "Will you actually make it to RMD age in the first place"... On that somewhat morbid note I'm going back to a fun project in my shop..:)

My money's on you making it, Frank. Keep doing fun stuff.

[2sk22]

I had one of my periodic lunches with a group of college friends for lunch last week in Manhattan. They are all extremely well off and are in various stages of retirement. I always find it interesting to see how these guys are keeping themselves busy.

Friend 1:  Fat FIRE'd almost 15 years ago after working in Goldman Sachs and Lehman Brothers but went back to work full time recently helping a lawyer friend sort out a messy bankruptcy.
Friend 2: Ran a small but profitable company doing certain specialized kinds of settlements between the big firms. He wound down his business about 6 years ago and s the only one truly retired. But he has his hands full helping his elderly parents.
Friend 3: CFO of a mid sized tech company and is thinking of retiring in a couple of years.
Friend 4 (probably the wealthiest of the group): Nominally retired from a very well known hedge fund but still goes in a couple times a week to advise them and is on their risk committee.

I'm definitely the odd person out in this group 😀

[cloudsail]

My husband has always been of the "I will work until I'm not employable anymore" kind of attitude. But recently the work hasn't been interesting anymore and so I started talking to him about early retirement again. We are FI and have been for a while. I showed him the numbers (again) and explained how it all works (again). And he is open to it this time in a way he never was before.

So I asked him finally to give me a number and he said $10M, when our net worth hits that he will retire. Now we have investment properties and a primary residence so NW is not that meaningful, but hey, whatever makes him comfortable. And we have a RE number! I'm so excited. Depending on the markets it should be in about two to three years, so we are tentatively in the 2027 cohort.

[MoneyTree]

I guess we don't really post NW updates here? I'm still relatively new here so maybe I will until I lose interest. I've just been keeping track of when I pass nice round numbers.

Mid 2019 - First passed $1M
March 2020 - dropped to $840K (covid)
April 2020 - reclaimed $1M
June 2020 - passed $1.1M
August 2020 - passed $1.2M
January 2021 - passed $1.3M
April 2021 - passed $1.4M
August 2021 - passed $1.5M
November 2021 - passed $1.6M
June 2023 - passed $1.7M
December 2023 - passed $1.8M
January 2024 - passed $1.9M
March 2024 - passed $2M
June 2024 - passed $2.1M

[Dicey]

I guess we don't really post NW updates here? I'm still relatively new here so maybe I will until I lose interest. I've just been keeping track of when I pass nice round numbers.

Mid 2019 - First passed $1M
March 2020 - dropped to $840K (covid)
April 2020 - reclaimed $1M
June 2020 - passed $1.1M
August 2020 - passed $1.2M
January 2021 - passed $1.3M
April 2021 - passed $1.4M
August 2021 - passed $1.5M
November 2021 - passed $1.6M
June 2023 - passed $1.7M
December 2023 - passed $1.8M
January 2024 - passed $1.9M
March 2024 - passed $2M
June 2024 - passed $2.1M

It's not verboten, but many of us can't believe that we've acquired Scrooge McDuck status, so we've become a little shy about reporting our exact numbers. In my case, I still kinda can't believe it's true. I absolutely adore being retired, though!

[2sk22]

I guess we don't really post NW updates here? I'm still relatively new here so maybe I will until I lose interest. I've just been keeping track of when I pass nice round numbers.

Mid 2019 - First passed $1M
March 2020 - dropped to $840K (covid)
April 2020 - reclaimed $1M
June 2020 - passed $1.1M
August 2020 - passed $1.2M
January 2021 - passed $1.3M
April 2021 - passed $1.4M
August 2021 - passed $1.5M
November 2021 - passed $1.6M
June 2023 - passed $1.7M
December 2023 - passed $1.8M
January 2024 - passed $1.9M
March 2024 - passed $2M
June 2024 - passed $2.1M

It's not verboten, but many of us can't believe that we've acquired Scrooge McDuck status, so we've become a little shy about reporting our exact numbers. In my case, I still kinda can't believe it's true. I absolutely adore being retired, though!

Dicey says it perfectly. I did post my NW when I joined this group a few years ago but its since grown so much that posting them now seems like an unwarranted flex.

Rolls Royce never revealed the horsepower of their car engines. It was simply described as as "adequate" (See this article). I feel much the same way nowadays - our NW is "adequate" :-)

[EscapeVelocity2020]

I guess we don't really post NW updates here? I'm still relatively new here so maybe I will until I lose interest. I've just been keeping track of when I pass nice round numbers.

Mid 2019 - First passed $1M
March 2020 - dropped to $840K (covid)
April 2020 - reclaimed $1M
June 2020 - passed $1.1M
August 2020 - passed $1.2M
January 2021 - passed $1.3M
April 2021 - passed $1.4M
August 2021 - passed $1.5M
November 2021 - passed $1.6M
June 2023 - passed $1.7M
December 2023 - passed $1.8M
January 2024 - passed $1.9M
March 2024 - passed $2M
June 2024 - passed $2.1M

It's not verboten, but many of us can't believe that we've acquired Scrooge McDuck status, so we've become a little shy about reporting our exact numbers. In my case, I still kinda can't believe it's true. I absolutely adore being retired, though!

Dicey says it perfectly. I did post my NW when I joined this group a few years ago but its since grown so much that posting them now seems like an unwarranted flex.

Rolls Royce never revealed the horsepower of their car engines. It was simply described as as "adequate" (See this article). I feel much the same way nowadays - our NW is "adequate" :-)

The growth of NW beyond FatFI is usually the least interesting part of the rest of the journey...  Telling strangers I'll be leaving even more money to heirs and charity seems a bit pointless.  Add to the fact that most of us 'old timers' in this thread have numbers that would be uncomfortable to share, I just like hiding behind 'and beyond' and talking about the Mustachian lifestyle that got us here and keeps us going.

But there isn't any rule that you can't share if you want to.  Many newbie posters here like to share for a while, then realize how compounding really is the 8th wonder of the world, etc.

[Dicey]

@MoneyTree, it seems my brain has a few more things to say on this topic, because I keep thinking about it today. Luckily, this is a safe place to talk about money and no one thinks you're being an asshat. It's also what I love about the Moab Meetups. Where else can you talk/hike/hang around the campfire with cool people who understand how money works, no matter where they are in their journey?

Early in the journey, before Pete came along, I counted everything. I would even check the "Zestimates" on my property monthly and add them to my totals. Actually, that's not really accurate. I never counted the "value" of my car, clothing, jewelry, household goods, etc. because if the SHTF, I couldn't get much for any of it, and that still holds true to this day.

Then I just started counting my equities, which is technically how the "races" are supposed to work.

Once I started hitting numbers I'd never dreamed of and my equities were earning more than I was, I started counting everything* again, but in a very loosey-goosey way. I don't budget, I don't add up all of our investments compulsively, because it just doesn't matter now.

Just for fun: I don't count our old cars, our fancy-pants RV, any of the contents of our home, or the condo we bought for my Bonus Kid, who is on the spectrum (all paid for). He's gainfully employed and was never going to launch without a huge boost. I'd rather help him find independence now than have them be engulfed by a firehose of $$$ after we're dead. We don't count SS because neither of us have filed for it yet, but it will be a good amount when we eventually do. DH has a Defined Benefit Pension that began in 2022. We never counted that before he retired, but we live on it now, along with our rental income.

*What we do count: Primary home (no mortgage, HCOLA), three SFH rental properties (net of their long, low, lean mortgages, MCOLA), and all of our investment accounts. Sometimes I call my husband "Lee Majors", which totally cracks us up.

TL;DR - This shit works, man, it really works, and there's a million ways to get there.

[Fomerly known as something]

I still look, but mainly in the I can’t believe my TSP is up another 100k sort of way.  It tend not to look hard at my total net worth, Its more fun for me to look at my accounts individually for some reason.  Likely because they are on different timelines.  I’m currently debating if I’ll make a 2025 DAF donation, I didn’t think I was going to but my brokerage is growing enough so maybe.

Unlike Dicey I do count an itsy bit of my pension if I do add up everying. In theory I can choose to take my contributions instead of the pension, all $40,000 of it.  (Vs close to 75k in benefit I’d get to the first year)

[Dicey]

I still look, but mainly in the I can’t believe my TSP is up another 100k sort of way.  It tend not to look hard at my total net worth, Its more fun for me to look at my accounts individually for some reason.  Likely because they are on different timelines.  I’m currently debating if I’ll make a 2025 DAF donation, I didn’t think I was going to but my brokerage is growing enough so maybe.

Unlike Dicey I do count an itsy bit of my pension if I do add up everying. In theory I can choose to take my contributions instead of the pension, all $40,000 of it.  (Vs close to 75k in benefit I’d get to the first year)

Yeah, DH's lump sum amount was pitiful, too. We did our homework and said, "Hell, no!" There is a way to figure out the value of a pension, but I never cared enough to figure it out. We'd be fine of it disappeared, but, like yours, it's not likely to disappear and it has a COLA. Keep.

[ixtap]

We only count what is recorded in an official statement. However, we don't have any real estate. Our 40yo boat, 15yo car and nearly worthless personal possessions amount to a rounding error for us.

But I have also loved this thread before I qualified. We tend to talk about our totals differently that the other races and focus more on our MPPs and gratitude than any goals.

No pensions but DH is pretty SWAMI since going part time. Who knows where we will end up.

[MoneyTree]

Yeah, if I wanted to flex, this would be the worst place to do it, given the amount of “and beyond” folks here. It’s like going to a bodybuilding competition to show off how well I can do pushups.

But at least for now, I do still find it motivating to post the NW numbers here, if only to marvel at how fast things continue to grow. Im not aiming at a particular number anymore, but i suppose it’s just the spectacle of actually witnessing how quickly a snowball grows, even if I always theoretically knew that it would. When you actually watch it happen, you can’t help but be a little shocked by it.

[2sk22]

Yeah, if I wanted to flex, this would be the worst place to do it, given the amount of “and beyond” folks here. It’s like going to a bodybuilding competition to show off how well I can do pushups.

But at least for now, I do still find it motivating to post the NW numbers here, if only to marvel at how fast things continue to grow. Im not aiming at a particular number anymore, but i suppose it’s just the spectacle of actually witnessing how quickly a snowball grows, even if I always theoretically knew that it would. When you actually watch it happen, you can’t help but be a little shocked by it.

Don't let us stop you from posting your NW numbers - it is motivating. And you are absolutely right about the feeling of shock when you actually see the raw power of compounding. I still remember that we first crossed $1M in NW (excluding home equity) in 2010 - and that felt like a huge achievement. We were super frugal, invested diligently and had just suffered 10 years of stagnant stock prices. Since then, it has been unreal seeing how much our NW has increased - we are now in the way beyond.

I update my asset tracking spreadsheet once a week and I still get that unreal feeling when I see the numbers. Despite having worked in a mathematical field, I have to say that our brains are just not wired to understand exponential functions 😀

[2sk22]

I'm reminded of this cartoon - this was during Covid but applies to NW as well :-)