Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!

[Exflyboy]

wait..

1) I have a York furnace that I just pulled out of my house that was perfect just too big.. if the sizes match I could sell/ship it to you. Would take 20 minutes to swap it out... Maybe just swap the motor? I think mine is a half horse power from memory.

2) Are you sure its not just the motor capacitor has crapped out? They are cheap/easy fix.

Either way.. no this is a simple DIY fix.

Let me know by PM if you're up to fixing this yourself... I just bought a whole new furnace for $800 and DIY installed it.

To replace the motor (the capacitor just plugs into two wires coming from the motor) its an easy job..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3TxcnCkd18

[Taran Wanderer]

Exflyboy, I love this...

[Exflyboy]

Yeah simple job.. I am finding new replacement motors on Amazon for between $100 and 200 bucks. Capacitors are like $10.

I don't know if the capacitor has been swapped but it makes sense to do that first then directly connect the motor to the mains power.. jut to make sure the motor is in fact dead.

No freaking way I would consider replacing a whole furnace for something as simple as a fan motor...:)

[2sk22]

Yeah simple job.. I am finding new replacement motors on Amazon for between $100 and 200 bucks. Capacitors are like $10.

I don't know if the capacitor has been swapped but it makes sense to do that first then directly connect the motor to the mains power.. jut to make sure the motor is in fact dead.

No freaking way I would consider replacing a whole furnace for something as simple as a fan motor...:)

I have a 24 year old Lenox pulse furnace in my house. Its still working fine after all these years. It uses an unusual pulse combustion method which is super efficient but it does sound like a two-stroke motorbike when its running :-)

About 10 years ago, I had to replace the blower motor because the bearings just completely seized up. But the cost of motor replacement was only about $250 - I have saved every receipt for major repairs.

[soccerluvof4]

Itchy..You will feel at times you wonder if you have enough even after you Fire BUT those feelings usually pass quick once you think of the alternative!

[snowdog]

I'm finding myself increasingly challenged to stay motivated at work.  There is a lot to be proud of, but the BS level continues to increase.  Having enough to FIRE makes it hard to put up with, but I really want to Fat FIRE.  As much as I admire the concept, I'm really not very mustachian in a lot of ways.

How are others dealing with this?  I know @Bateaux seems to be in a similar boat, and maybe BeanCounter, too.  Are you still working for the financial security?  For the ego?  For the social connections?  Out of habit?  How do you know when enough is enough?

I can totally relate to this.  I made the decision to pull the plug last December and just got out 2 weeks ago.  My prior posts describe my journey.  My job was extremely demanding and I thoroughly enjoyed the challenge up until I passed our number.  After moving the goalposts a few times and continuing to see our balances climb, my loss of motivation was palpable.  Almost like a tire with a leak...each day I felt less and less motivation and I realized how important a factor that was in performing my role.  What got me off the dime was when I realized that at some level enough is never enough.  That is a dangerous trap that can cost you many precious years if your not careful.  I think that if you have a couple of levels of cushion built into your plan then this really helps overcome the psychological fear that you will run out of money.   

[Taran Wanderer]

The big question is, "What is the right number?"  We could probably FIRE now, but what about health care, college for the kids, etc. etc.?  Or I could FIRE because DW really likes what she does and that would take care of health care.  The kids are bright, so college will probably take care of itself, but what if [insert emergency or life change here]?  The worst case is that one or both of us could go back to work part-time or full-time doing something completely different but making enough to get by, but how would not having our current positions impact our ability to impact our communities?  Plus... money!!!  Did I mention money anxiety??

First world problems...

[Exflyboy]

The big question is, "What is the right number?"  We could probably FIRE now, but what about health care, college for the kids, etc. etc.?  Or I could FIRE because DW really likes what she does and that would take care of health care.  The kids are bright, so college will probably take care of itself, but what if [insert emergency or life change here]?  The worst case is that one or both of us could go back to work part-time or full-time doing something completely different but making enough to get by, but how would not having our current positions impact our ability to impact our communities?  Plus... money!!!  Did I mention money anxiety??

First world problems...

I totally get this.. In fact I really didn't know what ur pensions would be worth until well after I quit. Since that time our investments have doubled and out WR was 1.5% last year.. And our pension havent even kicked in yet. When they do we will have a positive savings rate in RE!!!

I think its fair to say that we will have some SIGNIFICANT tax issues come RMD time!

We definitely over saved.

[2sk22]

etc.?  Or I could FIRE because DW really likes what she does and that would take care of health care.  The kids are bright, so college will probably take care of itself, but what if [insert emergency or life change here]?  The worst case is that one or both of us could go back to

I hate to say this but it (ie kids college) will probably not take care of itself. I did not really start relaxing until I had enough reserves put away to cover my kids college costs. I don't include money saved for college in my net worth just to enforce this.

On the other hand I know that something has to change in the long run - higher education prices are unsustainable. But my younger daughter will be off to college in a couple of years so I don't have the luxury of waiting for the long run :-)

[soccerluvof4]

etc.?  Or I could FIRE because DW really likes what she does and that would take care of health care.  The kids are bright, so college will probably take care of itself, but what if [insert emergency or life change here]?  The worst case is that one or both of us could go back to

I hate to say this but it (ie kids college) will probably not take care of itself. I did not really start relaxing until I had enough reserves put away to cover my kids college costs. I don't include money saved for college in my net worth just to enforce this.

On the other hand I know that something has to change in the long run - higher education prices are unsustainable. But my younger daughter will be off to college in a couple of years so I don't have the luxury of waiting for the long run :-)

I had 4 at home 4.5 years ago when I fired and now 2 in college and two at home still. Fotunately one got 100 % ride and the other did but walked away from it and has two years left and is paying for it but were trying to help but were still adding to the younger ones 401ks. But that has come about only because of the market rise. We too put it in a hidden account on mint so its money spent each month. Thing about college is were of the opinion the kids have to have some skin in the game and it costs more than you think even if they get scholarships. The costs do keep going up and when is enough enough but dont let it keep you from being fire'd. I know its easier said then done but if its important to keep paying for it then thats what a side gig would be good for.

[snowdog]

The big question is, "What is the right number?"  We could probably FIRE now, but what about health care, college for the kids, etc. etc.?  Or I could FIRE because DW really likes what she does and that would take care of health care.  The kids are bright, so college will probably take care of itself, but what if [insert emergency or life change here]?  The worst case is that one or both of us could go back to work part-time or full-time doing something completely different but making enough to get by, but how would not having our current positions impact our ability to impact our communities?  Plus... money!!!  Did I mention money anxiety??

First world problems...

I totally get these concerns.  While I'm in a bit of a different position as at 58 I'm older than you (I'm guessing), plus our 2 kids are out of college and off of the payroll.  That being said I still had many of the same worries...what if a kid backslides and needs our support, healthcare, wife gets sick (she is a cancer survivor), etc.  It never ends.  Just be aware that the line between thinking "enough is enough", and "more is never enough" can be very thin.  At 58 I just placed more value on time as I have less of it ahead of me.   

[BeanCounter]

I've always been skeptical about FIRE because of having two kids. There is so much that we are responsible for (healthcare, education, etc) that we still can't fully quantify the cost of. I suppose this will get easier as they get older, but for the last few years we think we are working on one budget and then someone needs something or wants to try something that throws the whole budget off. This is why we decided that at least one of us would keep working. My DH also feels strongly that our children should see him working. I don't necessarily agree, but he needs to do what he is most comfortable with. His job should, if nothing changes, provide them with tuition at a decent state university. So the one big sacrifice for the kids may be that they don't get to choose the school they attend. They will have to go where Dad earned tuition remission.
As for me- 7 months and two weeks.

[MaybeBabyMustache]

@BeanCounter - not that you're counting down or anything. ;-) Love it!

We are pushing close to $3M (this does include our primary residence value, because we don't plan to live in such an incredibly HCOL when FIREd). It feels really crazy

[Exflyboy]

@BeanCounter - not that you're counting down or anything. ;-) Love it!

We are pushing close to $3M (this does include our primary residence value, because we don't plan to live in such an incredibly HCOL when FIREd). It feels really crazy

That IS crazy.. But we like crazy,..:)

[BeanCounter]

So as soon as I posted this this morning DH calls and tells me about some crazy shit that's going down at his work (again). Which will result in a complete leadership change and could (but may not) result in him losing his job. Which makes me feel anxious about leaving mine. Because- insurance for a family of four is essentially another mortgage. UGH. Got to stick to the plan.

[Exflyboy]

So as soon as I posted this this morning DH calls and tells me about some crazy shit that's going down at his work (again). Which will result in a complete leadership change and could (but may not) result in him losing his job. Which makes me feel anxious about leaving mine. Because- insurance for a family of four is essentially another mortgage. UGH. Got to stick to the plan.

A lot depends on your individual circumstances of course but for us as a couple we spend just over $50k/year and our ACA Bronze plan costs us $8.38 per month.

If you don't thoroughly understand the ACA it might be worth delving into as it may slay some of those demons perhaps?

[BeanCounter]

So as soon as I posted this this morning DH calls and tells me about some crazy shit that's going down at his work (again). Which will result in a complete leadership change and could (but may not) result in him losing his job. Which makes me feel anxious about leaving mine. Because- insurance for a family of four is essentially another mortgage. UGH. Got to stick to the plan.

A lot depends on your individual circumstances of course but for us as a couple we spend just over $50k/year and our ACA Bronze plan costs us $8.38 per month.

If you don't thoroughly understand the ACA it might be worth delving into as it may slay some of those demons perhaps?

I do need to look into it more. I just assumed that if we were shopping for a plan in 2020 our rates would be based on 2019’s 1040? I’ve got a years worth of cash built up to pull from in FIRE that would not show as taxable income for the next year, but for the first year I don’t think there would be any way to get subsidies.

[Exflyboy]

So as soon as I posted this this morning DH calls and tells me about some crazy shit that's going down at his work (again). Which will result in a complete leadership change and could (but may not) result in him losing his job. Which makes me feel anxious about leaving mine. Because- insurance for a family of four is essentially another mortgage. UGH. Got to stick to the plan.

A lot depends on your individual circumstances of course but for us as a couple we spend just over $50k/year and our ACA Bronze plan costs us $8.38 per month.

If you don't thoroughly understand the ACA it might be worth delving into as it may slay some of those demons perhaps?

I do need to look into it more. I just assumed that if we were shopping for a plan in 2020 our rates would be based on 2019’s 1040? I’ve got a years worth of cash built up to pull from in FIRE that would not show as taxable income for the next year, but for the first year I don’t think there would be any way to get subsidies.

Form memory (its been 4 years since we went onto it) you estimate your income for 2021 when you apply.. In that case you would get the subsidy upfront.

Losing (or even self quitting a job) mid year allows you to join the ACA for that year.

Even if you didn't get the subsidy upfront, they would give it to you when you reconcile your taxes for 2020.. So at worse you will have to prepay for 1 year.

[Exflyboy]

Here you it says to estimate your income.

https://www.healthcare.gov/unemployed/coverage/

Its a non issue, as long as you know how to play the subsidy game.

[pecunia]

The reverse is also true.  If you aren't working and getting the subsidy and then get a good paying job, you'll have to pay back the subsidy.

[soccerluvof4]

So as soon as I posted this this morning DH calls and tells me about some crazy shit that's going down at his work (again). Which will result in a complete leadership change and could (but may not) result in him losing his job. Which makes me feel anxious about leaving mine. Because- insurance for a family of four is essentially another mortgage. UGH. Got to stick to the plan.

A lot depends on your individual circumstances of course but for us as a couple we spend just over $50k/year and our ACA Bronze plan costs us $8.38 per month.

If you don't thoroughly understand the ACA it might be worth delving into as it may slay some of those demons perhaps?

$8.38 a month WOW.. Last time I checked it was over 3k for us which Is why my DW found /made a deal with a company to get a job she loves at least for benefits. Thats awesome.

[BeanCounter]

Here you it says to estimate your income.

https://www.healthcare.gov/unemployed/coverage/

Its a non issue, as long as you know how to play the subsidy game.

Thanks for posting this @Exflyboy. I spent a little time playing around with it. Good news- there are more choices than I thought, and I feel comfortable with the coverage. Cost is interesting. I know at a minimum we will have an income of about $35k that I can't manipulate- that's an estimate for dividends, inherited IRA distributions and trust distribution. If I put $35k in for the income estimate it tells me we would be eligible for CHIP or Medicaid. I would not be comfortable accepting that. So I put in $40k and it gave me $68 per month for a high deductible silver plan or $150 a month for silver. If I put $55k a year in for the income estimate it gives me $148 a month for bronze and $570 for silver.
It ain't $8 bucks a month but it seems doable. Looks like having a large cash reserve will come in handy because we can pull from that to avoid creating more taxable income each year.
So I'm comforted by this, but I still think it's best for one of us to stay employed with insurance if possible until the kids have insurance.
The other thought I had is that this may mean it makes even more sense for me to set up my own business to do a small amount of tax and bookkeeping work because I could run this through the business as an expense. I need to research this further as I haven't looked into it since all the tax changes of 2018. I believe its actually a personal deduction not a business deduction.

[BeanCounter]

So I calculated our expenses for Aug and September and added them to my tracking. I've been tracking expenses monthly since the beginning of the year when we really started to talk about my quit date. I added a placeholder of $150 a month for insurance and yeah, I don't need to worry about this. We'll be fine, even if neither of us are working.
I love math.
Even more than math, I love hiking. Which I will be able to do a lot more of WHEN I'M NO LONGER WORKING!!!!!
Thanks guys. This thread has been really helpful for me. There isn't anybody IRL I can talk to about this. Except DH and he's got enough on his plate and he still thinks he wants to keep working until they tell him to go.

[Dicey]

So as soon as I posted this this morning DH calls and tells me about some crazy shit that's going down at his work (again). Which will result in a complete leadership change and could (but may not) result in him losing his job. Which makes me feel anxious about leaving mine. Because- insurance for a family of four is essentially another mortgage. UGH. Got to stick to the plan.

A lot depends on your individual circumstances of course but for us as a couple we spend just over $50k/year and our ACA Bronze plan costs us $8.38 per month.

If you don't thoroughly understand the ACA it might be worth delving into as it may slay some of those demons perhaps?

Paging @lhamo, another resident expert on this topic.

[Bateaux]

So I calculated our expenses for Aug and September and added them to my tracking. I've been tracking expenses monthly since the beginning of the year when we really started to talk about my quit date. I added a placeholder of $150 a month for insurance and yeah, I don't need to worry about this. We'll be fine, even if neither of us are working.
I love math.
Even more than math, I love hiking. Which I will be able to do a lot more of WHEN I'M NO LONGER WORKING!!!!!
Thanks guys. This thread has been really helpful for me. There isn't anybody IRL I can talk to about this. Except DH and he's got enough on his plate and he still thinks he wants to keep working until they tell him to go.

Hope it all works out.  Most of all , happy hiking.

[Exflyboy]

@BeanCounter Remember also that if you select a high deductible plan you can reduce your income by contributing to an HSA. If you have any real W2 income you can also deduct that by contributing tp 401k/Trad IRA's.

[BeanCounter]

@BeanCounter Remember also that if you select a high deductible plan you can reduce your income by contributing to an HSA. If you have any real W2 income you can also deduct that by contributing tp 401k/Trad IRA's.

Thank you! Did some reading this weekend and since it's based on MAGI it's much better than I thought. Deducting premiums from self employed income looks harder than expected since you have to itemize and have to reach the 7.5% of income. With the subsidy it doesn't look like that would work out, but it's an odd circular calculation.

[Bateaux]

Thinking of talking to Vanguard about using their professional advisory services.   Anybody have experience with Vanguard professional services?  Is it worth 0.30 percent?

[ysette9]

So as soon as I posted this this morning DH calls and tells me about some crazy shit that's going down at his work (again). Which will result in a complete leadership change and could (but may not) result in him losing his job. Which makes me feel anxious about leaving mine. Because- insurance for a family of four is essentially another mortgage. UGH. Got to stick to the plan.

A lot depends on your individual circumstances of course but for us as a couple we spend just over $50k/year and our ACA Bronze plan costs us $8.38 per month.

If you don't thoroughly understand the ACA it might be worth delving into as it may slay some of those demons perhaps?

I do need to look into it more. I just assumed that if we were shopping for a plan in 2020 our rates would be based on 2019’s 1040? I’ve got a years worth of cash built up to pull from in FIRE that would not show as taxable income for the next year, but for the first year I don’t think there would be any way to get subsidies.

Form memory (its been 4 years since we went onto it) you estimate your income for 2021 when you apply.. In that case you would get the subsidy upfront.

Losing (or even self quitting a job) mid year allows you to join the ACA for that year.

Even if you didn't get the subsidy upfront, they would give it to you when you reconcile your taxes for 2020.. So at worse you will have to prepay for 1 year.

It also matters which state you are in. @nippycrisp experienced no issue getting subsidies right away in California (if I remember correctly) even though he hadn’t proven his new, low retirement income yet. He just stated what it was going to be. I am sure other states make it more or less difficult depending on how on board they are with the ACA, but do look into it.

My estimates for ACA for our family are surprisingly affordable depending on how much in Roth conversions we want to do.

[ysette9]

Thinking of talking to Vanguard about using their professional advisory services.   Anybody have experience with Vanguard professional services?  Is it worth 0.30 percent?

Not personally but my parents and aunt and uncle use them.
I wish I had more info to give but I am not privy to the internal workings of their finances. I do believe they all like the hand holding and the warm fuzzy it gives them, and the price is less than you would get elsewhere.

I did find the advice for my parents to consider going to 40/60 allocation to be overly conservative considering the size of my father’s pension and the fact that my mother is already collecting SS. But I am no expert.

[Exflyboy]

I guess I really don't understand the need for an advisor, but thats coming from a die hard Mustacian perspective.

I'm sure they are very good but boy, 0.3% to tell me what mix of funds to buy is mind blowing expensive..:)

[DavidAnnArbor]

And just like that the motor blower stopped working on my nearly 11 year old 97% efficient York furnace.
Do I pay $810 to repair this, or do I buy a new furnace altogether, which would cost at least $3500 ?
If I repair the old furnace am I just going to have to make another repair to it in 2 years for another large amount, or will it be trouble free for a few years?
and if I buy a new furnace should I go ahead and upgrade my central air which has a SEER efficiency of 10 to a new central air SEER efficiency of 16?

I'm glad I'm still working part time, cause it's looking like I'll be spending money.

Well I'm happy to report that a friend/acquaintance was able to repair my furnace for a fraction of the cost of hiring a heating/cooling company to do the work.
At the last minute, I canceled the order for having a new A/C - Furnace system. I'm sure they weren't happy with me, but the salesman said I could even cancel the morning of the appointment.
My friend's labor cost was $170, and I spent about another $70 in parts, as well as $319 for a new motor I got on Ebay that I will have just in case the motor should fail in the future.
Not only did my friend repair the Electric Control Module to the Variable Speed Motor, but he also replaced a fuse, and found that the thermostat needed replacing. I got a no frills thermostat from Lowe's.
We also cleaned off the coils to the compressor which were caked in dirt/dust. Consequently, the A/C will run much more efficiently.
So for a fraction of the cost of hiring a company to repair the motor, I had a friend do the work, and additionally got my compressor cleaned out, and the blower blades cleaned off, as well as a new thermostat installed. He also repaired the end of my garden hose so that the sprayer head will fit better.

[Exflyboy]

"Fraction of the cost".. Yup like most things are when you lift the lid on the big scary monster..:)

[pecunia]

Well I'm happy to report that a friend/acquaintance was able to repair my furnace for a fraction of the cost of hiring a heating/cooling company to do the work.

There is a pretty good place in lower Michigan called Repair Clinic.com that has helped me a few times with repair information and parts.  I fixed my furnace last Winter with parts ordered from them.

[DavidAnnArbor]

thanks pecunia, I did notice that website in my google searching.  I just know that I wouldn't have been able to do all these things myself without this friend who both had a lot of knowledge, as well as the tool kit that is needed.

[Bateaux]

I may still talk to Vanguard about the service, but it's kinda silly to hand them an extra $6,000 a year to buy mutual funds.  I'm thinking the things I'll need done they will do for free.  Will need to move 400k of cash balance from Prudential Retirement.  Move a million plus from Charles Schwab company 401k (maybe, if I work till 2023 then the rule of 55 can be used).  Move 200k from my wife's Lincoln Financial 401k (may use rule of 55 for my wife and leave it there).  Roth IRA, traditional IRA and taxable accounts already at Vanguard for years.
Screw it.   It might be easier to just keep working.

[smoghat]

Thinking of talking to Vanguard about using their professional advisory services.   Anybody have experience with Vanguard professional services?  Is it worth 0.30 percent?

No. I have a high enough investable worth that they gave me the same advice they’d give you for .30 percent for free, at least to start. It’s the same thing every financial advisor who isn’t a complete con artist will give you. Diversify your portfolio as per just about every investment site out there (good thing I didn’t listen to them since the drag a large amount of bonds would have put on my portfolio would have been bad). Don’t sell during a downturn. DON’T SELL DURING A DOWNTURN! That’s all.

[nancyfrank232]

I was reminded of this thread when watching Succession

https://youtu.be/OzYxJV_rmE8

In the second season, one of the characters, Greg thinks that he’ll be ok because he will inherit $5m

His relatives Connor Roy, eldest son of media mogul Logan Roy, and his friend (and boss) Tom, hilariously disabuse him of that notion:

Tom: “Five's a nightmare... can’t retire... not worth it to work.”

Connor: “Five will drive you un poco loco, my fine feathered friend.”

Tom: “Poorest rich person in America”

Connor: “The world's tallest dwarf......the weakest strong man at the circus."

https://www.vox.com/culture/2019/10/6/20897073/succession-season-2-episode-9-dc-recap-winners-losers-tom-greg

Lol! What a great show!

[Exflyboy]

Thinking of talking to Vanguard about using their professional advisory services.   Anybody have experience with Vanguard professional services?  Is it worth 0.30 percent?

No. I have a high enough investable worth that they gave me the same advice they’d give you for .30 percent for free, at least to start. It’s the same thing every financial advisor who isn’t a complete con artist will give you. Diversify your portfolio as per just about every investment site out there (good thing I didn’t listen to them since the drag a large amount of bonds would have put on my portfolio would have been bad). Don’t sell during a downturn. DON’T SELL DURING A DOWNTURN! That’s all.

How much do you need to have to get their advice for free?

[Bateaux]

Thinking of talking to Vanguard about using their professional advisory services.   Anybody have experience with Vanguard professional services?  Is it worth 0.30 percent?

No. I have a high enough investable worth that they gave me the same advice they’d give you for .30 percent for free, at least to start. It’s the same thing every financial advisor who isn’t a complete con artist will give you. Diversify your portfolio as per just about every investment site out there (good thing I didn’t listen to them since the drag a large amount of bonds would have put on my portfolio would have been bad). Don’t sell during a downturn. DON’T SELL DURING A DOWNTURN! That’s all.

How much do you need to have to get their advice for free?

I think it's 5 million for the cheaper rate.

[Bateaux]

I'm being a candy-assed whiney pants.  I'm sitting on a new personal all time high stash and I've worked 76 hours in the last 7 days.  Having a why am I still doing this to myself moment.  It will pass.  Thanks for giving me an audience to vent to.

[markbike528CBX]

I'm being a candy-assed whiney pants.  I'm sitting on a new personal all time high stash and I've worked 76 hours in the last 7 days.  Having a why am I still doing this to myself moment.  It will pass.  Thanks for giving me an audience to vent to.

WTF moments do pass but they can be cumulative.   The question is: why are you letting the WTF moments accumulate?

[Car Jack]

Thinking of talking to Vanguard about using their professional advisory services.   Anybody have experience with Vanguard professional services?  Is it worth 0.30 percent?

I have watched reports on Bogleheads from people who use PAS.  What I've taken is that when you sign up, the following happens:  They figure out your age, put you in a target date fund, but instead of the TD, they break it down (just like rip off AUM advisors that we all hate do), give you the list and percentages and then say "take it or leave it....you can't change anything or we fire you from our PAS service".  I expect that they do rebalance automatically.  So there's 15 minutes a year (what I spend).

Well, I think I can figure out my AA on my own, thank you very much.  That's the easy part of retirement planning.  So what value is there that 0.3% is paying for?

If I'm wrong here, and someone has received more than what I describe, I'd love to hear it.  Do they help with setting up trusts?  Do glide paths for withdrawal phase?  Go in depth with minimizing taxes?  Strategize the best way to pay for college for the kids?

[Bateaux]

Thinking of talking to Vanguard about using their professional advisory services.   Anybody have experience with Vanguard professional services?  Is it worth 0.30 percent?

I have watched reports on Bogleheads from people who use PAS.  What I've taken is that when you sign up, the following happens:  They figure out your age, put you in a target date fund, but instead of the TD, they break it down (just like rip off AUM advisors that we all hate do), give you the list and percentages and then say "take it or leave it....you can't change anything or we fire you from our PAS service".  I expect that they do rebalance automatically.  So there's 15 minutes a year (what I spend).

Well, I think I can figure out my AA on my own, thank you very much.  That's the easy part of retirement planning.  So what value is there that 0.3% is paying for?

If I'm wrong here, and someone has received more than what I describe, I'd love to hear it.  Do they help with setting up trusts?  Do glide paths for withdrawal phase?  Go in depth with minimizing taxes?  Strategize the best way to pay for college for the kids?

I would doubt you see anything but very basic service.  It's crazy that laws and companies have made it so easy to build wealth and so difficult to actually spend it.  Most of what I know I've learned from you guys and a few smart co-workers.  Most of the retirees I know use a full service broker and pay 1 percent of more for the service.  That's crazy!  You shouldn't have to pay that much to navigate in retirement.  A few of them have asked if me if I wanted to talk to their broker for a free consultation.  So far I've declined.  I really just need to figure out how I'm going to cover expenses till 2023-2024.  We've decided that all of 2020 we're going to work.  2021 we'll burn up remaining vacation and bail by March 2021.  Hopefully we can quit and apply for the ACA, keeping earnings low enough for the subsidy.  We'll use cash to fund the rest of the year.  If we miss that window, then I may as well work till June 2023 when I am 55 and have company health benefits.

[SwordGuy]

There are a number of smaller colleges that provide free tuition. I did a google search, and the number vary, here is one of the top links, but take a look yourself
http://www.valuecolleges.com/top-25-tuition-free-colleges/

North Carolina has a number of state universities that are incredibly inexpensive for in-state residents.   And still affordable for out-of-state students, too.    In state tuition and fees for them, for a 4 year degree for a student living at home with their parents and on their parent's insurance, will cost about $16,000. 

For folks who aren't tied to a job, like FIRED mustachians, and willing to relocate, it's an inexpensive option. 

[soccerluvof4]

Thinking of talking to Vanguard about using their professional advisory services.   Anybody have experience with Vanguard professional services?  Is it worth 0.30 percent?

I have watched reports on Bogleheads from people who use PAS.  What I've taken is that when you sign up, the following happens:  They figure out your age, put you in a target date fund, but instead of the TD, they break it down (just like rip off AUM advisors that we all hate do), give you the list and percentages and then say "take it or leave it....you can't change anything or we fire you from our PAS service".  I expect that they do rebalance automatically.  So there's 15 minutes a year (what I spend).

Well, I think I can figure out my AA on my own, thank you very much.  That's the easy part of retirement planning.  So what value is there that 0.3% is paying for?

If I'm wrong here, and someone has received more than what I describe, I'd love to hear it.  Do they help with setting up trusts?  Do glide paths for withdrawal phase?  Go in depth with minimizing taxes?  Strategize the best way to pay for college for the kids?

Yea this is totally not what I have experienced at all and to be frank I have been very pleased with my experience for several years with my adviser. I read , read and read more on all these forums but either I just dont get alot of it or its a security thing but in any case I felt more comfortable when I fire'd going on 5 years now to use one of there advisers. When I inquired about the service I did say I basically wanted to interview a couple guys and the guy I picked is close to my age and has been with the company a bit.  We have had many lengthy conversations and unless he is on vacation I have never not called and talked to him within the same day. Most of the time I email him and he calls or responds quickly and /or handles my request or question. He knows he needs to explain things to me in detail and has never tried to sell me anything but instead explains options and long term picture. Maybe I got luck and several times I think I will just let it ride now but like I said I feel he has our back and is helping me navigate through everything . My suggestion would be to call and ask to talk to an adviser and give it a shot for a quarter or two and go from there. I dont know if you can request one but if you want you can PM me and I will give you the guys name I use. I think what has helped and would be the same or even better for you is as much as I feel I know nothing and trust no one being on MMM for all these years I had alot of questions I needed explaining that I am sure alot of there clients just dont know really anything. And if we ever talked about a target date fund I dont remember it but again it would of been an option and I must not of chose it at the time for whatever reason as I didnt like it vs other options.

[BeanCounter]

Fidelity has a similar service free for clients of a high net worth. They don’t rebalance automatically for you, but when you have a visit with your advisor they help you figure out what needs rebalanced and make suggestions about other funds etc. They have also set up appointments for me to get advice from their trust team. Ive been very happy with the service. I can talk to my advisor as much or as little as I want. When he makes suggestions I just write it all down and do the research myself and decide if I’m going to move money to that or not. He’s been very supportive of my three fund style portfolio using index funds, but we’ve added a couple other funds to tilt to healthcare and tech etc.
I think I could do it myself just fine, but it’s nice to have someone to bounce ideas off of or talk tax with. And it’s free!

[Bateaux]

Wow.  Thanks so much for your comments.  Sometimes it's as if you are juggling eggs.  I think I'm just going to calm down and let things settle for a while.  Our money is growing at greater than 500 dollars a day, every day right now.  That's a conservative estimate, but it fixes a lot of problems and fills the gaps where my knowledge is lacking.   If I just hit it with a bigger hammer it will submit.  Some of the finess guys can do it with a little ball peen.  I'm going to pack a sledgehammer just in case.

[Exflyboy]

Fidelity has a similar service free for clients of a high net worth. They don’t rebalance automatically for you, but when you have a visit with your advisor they help you figure out what needs rebalanced and make suggestions about other funds etc. They have also set up appointments for me to get advice from their trust team. Ive been very happy with the service. I can talk to my advisor as much or as little as I want. When he makes suggestions I just write it all down and do the research myself and decide if I’m going to move money to that or not. He’s been very supportive of my three fund style portfolio using index funds, but we’ve added a couple other funds to tilt to healthcare and tech etc.
I think I could do it myself just fine, but it’s nice to have someone to bounce ideas off of or talk tax with. And it’s free!

At what level is it free with Fidelity?

Vanguards list of fees does not say "free" at any level, even North of $25M.

[2sk22]

After working nearly thirty years in the field, I increasingly think I'm done with tech in general. Mostly by luck, my qualifications have become valuable. Not a day goes by without getting cold calls from tech headhunters. I'm being paid a ridiculously high salary and yet it gives me little satisfaction.

All of this came to head yesterday when I watched Zuckerberg being cross examined in congress. It was clear how much Facebook has not thought through the consequences of their product. There was also a great article in Wired recently about the practical consequences of Youtube's recommendation algorithm in promoting radicalization. This all seems like giving kids gasoline and matches as playthings.

I keep getting reminded of this quote from the book The Soul of a new Machine by Tracy Kidder:

He went away from the basement of Building 14 that day, and left this
note in his cubicle, on top of his computer terminal: "I'm going to a
commune in Vermont and will deal with no unit of time shorter than a
season."

Unfortunately, I can't just walk out just yet. But I will be done for sure by this time next year at the latest.