Author Topic: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!  (Read 27711 times)

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #300 on: February 06, 2018, 06:06:47 PM »
I'm in CAT A.  Lost about 100k.
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itchyfeet

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #301 on: February 06, 2018, 08:30:48 PM »
I'm in CAT A.  Lost about 100k.

Sorry to hear that.

I guess when with the bulls occasionally one of the buggers will step on your foot. Sure this causes short term pain, but in the long run a bruised hoof is not going to stop you surging to your destination where you will graze on sweet pastures.

wannabe-stache

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #302 on: February 07, 2018, 10:59:07 AM »
So.... which camp are you in:

A. The bigger you are the harder you fall. Ie: this small blip in the market set you back a 6 figure sum which is more than 3 or 4% of you net worth; or

B. As you are wealthy and properly diversified this small blip cost you far less than the market movement, like maybe only 1%; or

C. You knew the top was in, shorted the market, made an absolute killing and grew your stash even to a more enviable number??

D i suppose. young investor here, heavily exposed to equity mutual funds, lost a lot of $ on paper ($30K in one day - ouch!) and looking forward to putting more money to work for another 10-15 years according to the terms of my investment philosophy statement.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #303 on: February 07, 2018, 08:31:51 PM »
So.... which camp are you in:

A. The bigger you are the harder you fall. Ie: this small blip in the market set you back a 6 figure sum which is more than 3 or 4% of you net worth; or

B. As you are wealthy and properly diversified this small blip cost you far less than the market movement, like maybe only 1%; or

C. You knew the top was in, shorted the market, made an absolute killing and grew your stash even to a more enviable number??

Another 'none of the above'.  Although I've been aware that the markets are freaking out as opposed to going straight up, I have only a vague idea (within 100k) of my net worth and even less idea what these gyrations have done to the portfolio.  I did check in on my son's 529 since those funds are coming closer to being tapped.  There's ~110k in a moderately aggressive 70/30 fund, so I might move to a more conservative 50/50 fund, but it's a small optimization in the whole scheme of things.  I still feel pretty good about my (thus far too conservative) AA, given that we have 'enough' and sufficient opportunity to make money in bond-like income.

Getting excited that long-bond income is finally on the rise though!
Transitioning to FIRE'd albeit somewhat cautiously...

AdrianC

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #304 on: February 08, 2018, 08:12:11 AM »
Definitely an 'A', not that it makes any difference to me. Surprised more people on here aren't 'A's.

3-4% drop after a 25% rise in one year...no worries.

itchyfeet

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #305 on: February 08, 2018, 11:50:36 PM »
Yeah, no worries, but now down more than $50K for the week 😳

bwall

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #306 on: February 09, 2018, 10:30:57 AM »
Just now found this thread and it's amazing. . . . I don't think anyone has used the term High Net Worth Individuals (HWNI) yet, but it applies to everyone with $1m in investible assets, not to mention $2m. Here is the definition per wiki:

High-net-worth individual (HNWI) is a term used by some segments of the financial services industry to designate persons whose investible assets (such as stocks and bonds) exceed a given amount. Typically, these individuals are defined as holding financial assets (excluding their primary residence) with a value greater than US$1 million.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-net-worth_individual

Here's another article talking about the growth and distribution of HWNI's.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/09/28/number-high-net-worth-individuals-hits-all-time-high-165-million/


Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #307 on: February 10, 2018, 04:50:23 AM »
I  think High Net Worth Individual needs to be redefined.   I'd term that to be closer to 5 million.  If you have 1 million invested outside of home and pensions you have a nice pad, but in 2018 it's not high net worth.  It's bare bones living without extra income if retired.  Some here can do it.  If they do, they are very frugal.   I think you start to feel wealth at about 2.5 million invested, on up to about 5 million.   After 5 million your what I'd think of as rich and ready to take on the more risky investments of HNWI.
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itchyfeet

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #308 on: February 10, 2018, 08:53:22 AM »
$5M USD is a huge sum of money. In Australia it would put you in the top 1% based on Net Worth. I am not even talking investable assets.

Do you think that is the pass mark for HNWI in a wealthy developed country (top 1%)?



Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #309 on: February 10, 2018, 09:03:26 AM »
$5M USD is a huge sum of money. In Australia it would put you in the top 1% based on Net Worth. I am not even talking investable assets.

Do you think that is the pass mark for HNWI in a wealthy developed country (top 1%)?

If you're living on 1 million invested as a sole income stream, you're the typical millionaire next door.  There is very little flash living on 40k a year.  You're basically middle class but not having to work. (Mustacian)   At the 5 million invested level you can have flashy house, cars, vacations, parties...the things truly rich people do.
“Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.”
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Class of 2019

Car Jack

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #310 on: February 10, 2018, 11:29:27 AM »
I believe $40k is under the poverty line for a family of 4.  If there is other sources of income (social security, pension, occasional bank robbery), then it's not a lot to get above the line.  But it ain't livin' high, that's for sure.

Knaak

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #311 on: February 10, 2018, 11:41:06 AM »
I believe $40k is under the poverty line for a family of 4.  If there is other sources of income (social security, pension, occasional bank robbery), then it's not a lot to get above the line.  But it ain't livin' high, that's for sure.

The current federal poverty line for a family of four is $25,100:

https://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty-guidelines

Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #312 on: February 10, 2018, 12:01:55 PM »
A few generalisations of course.

I.e do you have kids? Location?.. $40k in NYC won't go far but in rural Wyoming it would.

If you live in UK your healthcare costs would also be zero.

We live in Oregon on our 5.5 acres (2 adults) and with the house paid off we consistently spend around $30k/year. But we have probably skimped on insurance during the accumulation phase so we are now paying about $1500/year more to protect our stash from lawsuits.

Assume we have a couple of vacations at say $10k would put us right at $40k/year.. If we had to pay fell whack on our HC premiums that would add another $14k.

So $55k for living decent in FIRE for us.

itchyfeet

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #313 on: February 10, 2018, 08:27:55 PM »
A few generalisations of course.

I.e do you have kids? Location?.. $40k in NYC won't go far but in rural Wyoming it would.

If you live in UK your healthcare costs would also be zero.

We live in Oregon on our 5.5 acres (2 adults) and with the house paid off we consistently spend around $30k/year. But we have probably skimped on insurance during the accumulation phase so we are now paying about $1500/year more to protect our stash from lawsuits.

Assume we have a couple of vacations at say $10k would put us right at $40k/year.. If we had to pay fell whack on our HC premiums that would add another $14k.

So $55k for living decent in FIRE for us.

So you over saved??

Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #314 on: February 11, 2018, 12:16:30 AM »
A few generalisations of course.

I.e do you have kids? Location?.. $40k in NYC won't go far but in rural Wyoming it would.

If you live in UK your healthcare costs would also be zero.

We live in Oregon on our 5.5 acres (2 adults) and with the house paid off we consistently spend around $30k/year. But we have probably skimped on insurance during the accumulation phase so we are now paying about $1500/year more to protect our stash from lawsuits.

Assume we have a couple of vacations at say $10k would put us right at $40k/year.. If we had to pay fell whack on our HC premiums that would add another $14k.

So $55k for living decent in FIRE for us.

So you over saved??


Yes at 4% our income could be about $115k/yr.. Prior to the correction at least.

bigchrisb

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #315 on: February 11, 2018, 03:13:00 AM »
Category a for me. Down over 100k, or about 3%. Given I gained the same the month before, I'm not exactly losing sleep!

As for "high net worth" classifications, the cynic in me thinks it's a bracket thought up by the financial sharks (advisors, fund managers and hedge funds), not because it's a mark of independent wealth, but rather a target market.  I'd like to be collecting 2% on someone else's investable assets!

bwall

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #316 on: February 11, 2018, 09:40:21 AM »
As for "high net worth" classifications, the cynic in me thinks it's a bracket thought up by the financial sharks (advisors, fund managers and hedge funds), not because it's a mark of independent wealth, but rather a target market.  I'd like to be collecting 2% on someone else's investable assets!

I believe your analysis to be accurate, not cynical. Giving a demographic a name helps in lots of ways. As you mention, financial advisors provided the definition for their own purposes, such as allowing actors across the industry to identify a 'whale' when they see one. However, the same classification also allows the 'marks' to know that they've been identified as such and then to react accordingly. By knowing better how scare the cohort you belong to is, it allows you to better understand the motivations of financial advisors you may encounter.

For example, a couple of months ago I was in Europe trying to open a business bank account. The gentleman I spoke with began the conversation by saying that they had strict requirements for new account holders, such as monthly fees of 60 EUR and minimum capital of 500,000 EUR. "Not a problem", I said. And, immediately the tone of the conversation changed significantly. I hung up the phone and it occurred to me that the banker doesn't get such phone calls often.

Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #317 on: February 11, 2018, 10:37:26 AM »
Category a for me. Down over 100k, or about 3%. Given I gained the same the month before, I'm not exactly losing sleep!

As for "high net worth" classifications, the cynic in me thinks it's a bracket thought up by the financial sharks (advisors, fund managers and hedge funds), not because it's a mark of independent wealth, but rather a target market.  I'd like to be collecting 2% on someone else's investable assets!

So you have $3.3M?... Nice..:)

Dicey

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #318 on: February 11, 2018, 01:35:32 PM »
Category a for me. Down over 100k, or about 3%. Given I gained the same the month before, I'm not exactly losing sleep!

As for "high net worth" classifications, the cynic in me thinks it's a bracket thought up by the financial sharks (advisors, fund managers and hedge funds), not because it's a mark of independent wealth, but rather a target market.  I'd like to be collecting 2% on someone else's investable assets!

So you have $3.3M?... Nice..:)
Hmmm, I think those might be Aussie dollars. Still mighty nice, but they don't stretch quite as far as USD.
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bigchrisb

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #319 on: February 11, 2018, 02:01:27 PM »
Category a for me. Down over 100k, or about 3%. Given I gained the same the month before, I'm not exactly losing sleep!

As for "high net worth" classifications, the cynic in me thinks it's a bracket thought up by the financial sharks (advisors, fund managers and hedge funds), not because it's a mark of independent wealth, but rather a target market.  I'd like to be collecting 2% on someone else's investable assets!

So you have $3.3M?... Nice..:)
Hmmm, I think those might be Aussie dollars. Still mighty nice, but they don't stretch quite as far as USD.
Yep, Pacific Pesos. I don't convert as,
A) I save and spend in Aud, and
B) the exchange rate is quite volatile, having ranged between 1.1 and 0.7 usd in recent memory.
Current conversion puts me at about 2.5m in greenbacks.

Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #320 on: February 11, 2018, 02:27:01 PM »
Still a sizable stash.. Well done..:)

farmecologist

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #321 on: February 11, 2018, 09:18:52 PM »
As for "high net worth" classifications, the cynic in me thinks it's a bracket thought up by the financial sharks (advisors, fund managers and hedge funds), not because it's a mark of independent wealth, but rather a target market.  I'd like to be collecting 2% on someone else's investable assets!

'Accredited investor' is also a classification and is currently required by law for some investments such as PeerStreet, etc...

  https://info.peerstreet.com/glossary/accredited-investor/


Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #322 on: February 12, 2018, 01:24:43 AM »
As for "high net worth" classifications, the cynic in me thinks it's a bracket thought up by the financial sharks (advisors, fund managers and hedge funds), not because it's a mark of independent wealth, but rather a target market.  I'd like to be collecting 2% on someone else's investable assets!

'Accredited investor' is also a classification and is currently required by law for some investments such as PeerStreet, etc...

  https://info.peerstreet.com/glossary/accredited-investor/

I'd qualify by item number 2.  Doesn't mean much, I'm not qualified in any way to play with big boy investments.  I've got primal fear just buying some individual stocks.
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itchyfeet

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #323 on: February 12, 2018, 10:23:14 AM »
Well folks, it’s a big pay day today 👀

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #324 on: February 12, 2018, 12:02:54 PM »
Good.  I'm down over 100k.
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Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #325 on: February 12, 2018, 12:16:33 PM »
Good.  I'm down over 100k.

Only about 1.0 Tesla's then..:)

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #326 on: February 13, 2018, 04:14:32 AM »
Good.  I'm down over 100k.

Only about 1.0 Tesla's then..:)

Sub 100k losses now.  Not Model X or P100D Model S.  Getting into Model 3 range.


😁
“Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.”
 ― Antoine de Saint Exupery-

Class of 2019