Author Topic: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!  (Read 975506 times)

farmecologist

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6150 on: April 28, 2022, 03:31:35 PM »
I don't know about you guys, but I think our portfolio is going to finish April 2022 about the same spot it was in April 2021. Giving up all of last year's gains.
I new that "beyond" number was too good to be true at the end of 2021. I'm slightly disappointed, but mostly......"meh" (as my teen would say). Curious to see what is next.

I have three more weeks at my part time contract gig with former employer. None of this market volatility is making me consider trying to stay and do another project for them. It's also not making me want to try and find another client. I think I'll just relax and enjoy summer with the kids, maybe try not to spend too much. :)

I think we will be seeing quite a few more reports like this over the next few weeks.  Hopefully nobody will fall out of the club here!





Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6151 on: April 28, 2022, 05:41:05 PM »
We might, then if they are accumulating they will buy more stocks and if in retirement will roll some bond funds into stocks. Maybe some will do nothing.

Either way its a temporary setback that ends at a higher rung up the ladder than before. Tragic..:)

ixtap

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6152 on: April 28, 2022, 05:44:29 PM »
I don't know about you guys, but I think our portfolio is going to finish April 2022 about the same spot it was in April 2021. Giving up all of last year's gains.
I new that "beyond" number was too good to be true at the end of 2021. I'm slightly disappointed, but mostly......"meh" (as my teen would say). Curious to see what is next.

I have three more weeks at my part time contract gig with former employer. None of this market volatility is making me consider trying to stay and do another project for them. It's also not making me want to try and find another client. I think I'll just relax and enjoy summer with the kids, maybe try not to spend too much. :)

I think we will be seeing quite a few more reports like this over the next few weeks.  Hopefully nobody will fall out of the club here!

We have another month before we do our snapshot. Anything can happen in a month.

BeanCounter

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6153 on: April 28, 2022, 06:17:07 PM »
We might, then if they are accumulating they will buy more stocks and if in retirement will roll some bond funds into stocks. Maybe some will do nothing.

Either way its a temporary setback that ends at a higher rung up the ladder than before. Tragic..:)

Love it!! This is why I have 5% sitting in cash.

2KidFIRE

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6154 on: April 29, 2022, 08:57:51 AM »
Iím not exactly sure how to value pre IPO shares of DHís company. I mean I have the appraisal value and all, but I donít want to count any chickens before they hatch...

I've seen different approaches to this discussed.  If he paid for the shares then the easiest way to value them would just be to use the price paid, even if they are likely worth more.

If he was instead granted the shares then I think the safest bet is to value them at what you could get for them.  If you can't sell them at all, value at $0.  If there is a way to transfer/sell them to others, identify what others have already paid for other people's shares and value at that amount.

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6155 on: April 29, 2022, 01:07:40 PM »
We might, then if they are accumulating they will buy more stocks and if in retirement will roll some bond funds into stocks. Maybe some will do nothing.

Either way its a temporary setback that ends at a higher rung up the ladder than before. Tragic..:)

I've got 460 days till my official retirement date.  I'll actually be gone with PTO use in about 54 weeks.  I liked seeing the portfolio above 3M, but we can look at this as last minute bargain shopping.   Pension and 401K will continue till August 2023.  The big reset button has been pushed.  It will be interesting to see how it all falls out.  We're all in a great position to ride this out and probably come out on top. 
Cheers

rockstache

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6156 on: April 30, 2022, 12:05:15 PM »
I'm laid down in the back of the Expedition and my wife is driving us through the Florida darkness.  By daylight we'll arrive at our house.  It's been almost three months since we've been there.  This week kicks off summer vacations for us.  We'll be headed to Tampa in a few days for some beach and amusement park fun with friends.  The one mores continue to drop.  One more Easter, one more Fourth of July, one more Christmas, one more Mardi Gras. 
I can't imagine what it will be like having an open schedule.  No more torture on the body trying to squeeze every moment out of time off.  We just turned the dog leg from the panhandle to the peninsula.  We'd been eating up longitude headed east.  Now we're dropping latitude headed south.  Almost to the Suwannee River now.  I hope to paddle that entire river in coming years along with so.many more.  Hopefully we get out on the Rainbow River or Crystal River this week.  Just checking in.  Hope all of you are doing good.

Certainly sounds better than the snow that was falling this morning.  Summer comes damned early down there.  Enjoy your break.

The pool is clean and 76 degrees.
76F is far too cold!

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6157 on: April 30, 2022, 04:57:35 PM »
Agreed. Unless itís 90 degrees out.

markbike528CBX

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6158 on: April 30, 2022, 11:54:03 PM »
I'm laid down in the back of the Expedition and my wife is driving us through the Florida darkness.  By daylight we'll arrive at our house.  It's been almost three months since we've been there.  This week kicks off summer vacations for us.  We'll be headed to Tampa in a few days for some beach and amusement park fun with friends.  The one mores continue to drop.  One more Easter, one more Fourth of July, one more Christmas, one more Mardi Gras. 
I can't imagine what it will be like having an open schedule.  No more torture on the body trying to squeeze every moment out of time off.  We just turned the dog leg from the panhandle to the peninsula.  We'd been eating up longitude headed east.  Now we're dropping latitude headed south.  Almost to the Suwannee River now.  I hope to paddle that entire river in coming years along with so.many more.  Hopefully we get out on the Rainbow River or Crystal River this week.  Just checking in.  Hope all of you are doing good.

Certainly sounds better than the snow that was falling this morning.  Summer comes damned early down there.  Enjoy your break.

The pool is clean and 76 degrees.
76F is far too cold!

Agreed. Unless itís 90 degrees out.

Edit, fatfingered the Save, Preview buttons

I would suggest that 76F pool at 90+F will feel much too "crisp and refreshing".

76F pool is my old apartment's Maximum temperature.  It is my minimum reasonable temperature.
My pool ranges from 72F to 94F (118F max air temperature that day, no typo or exaggeration).

Pleasant temp is in the upper part of the Olympic pool range.  79 [+- 2]F   degrees, plus or minus one degree,  or 25į to 28į Celsius )

Some people feel differently https://www.outdoorswimmingsociety.com/cold-water-feels-temperature-guide/

« Last Edit: May 01, 2022, 12:17:56 AM by markbike528CBX »

pecunia

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6159 on: May 01, 2022, 06:41:57 AM »
I'm laid down in the back of the Expedition and my wife is driving us through the Florida darkness.  By daylight we'll arrive at our house.  It's been almost three months since we've been there.  This week kicks off summer vacations for us.  We'll be headed to Tampa in a few days for some beach and amusement park fun with friends.  The one mores continue to drop.  One more Easter, one more Fourth of July, one more Christmas, one more Mardi Gras. 
I can't imagine what it will be like having an open schedule.  No more torture on the body trying to squeeze every moment out of time off.  We just turned the dog leg from the panhandle to the peninsula.  We'd been eating up longitude headed east.  Now we're dropping latitude headed south.  Almost to the Suwannee River now.  I hope to paddle that entire river in coming years along with so.many more.  Hopefully we get out on the Rainbow River or Crystal River this week.  Just checking in.  Hope all of you are doing good.

Certainly sounds better than the snow that was falling this morning.  Summer comes damned early down there.  Enjoy your break.

The pool is clean and 76 degrees.
76F is far too cold!

Agreed. Unless itís 90 degrees out.

Edit, fatfingered the Save, Preview buttons

I would suggest that 76F pool at 90+F will feel much too "crisp and refreshing".

76F pool is my old apartment's Maximum temperature.  It is my minimum reasonable temperature.
My pool ranges from 72F to 94F (118F max air temperature that day, no typo or exaggeration).

Pleasant temp is in the upper part of the Olympic pool range.  79 [+- 2]F   degrees, plus or minus one degree,  or 25į to 28į Celsius )

Some people feel differently https://www.outdoorswimmingsociety.com/cold-water-feels-temperature-guide/

I grew up swimming in Lake Superior on what we considered warm Summer days 80F (27C). The water temperature of the lake averages 46F (8C) but in Summer it could be up to 60F (16C).

rockstache

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6160 on: May 01, 2022, 09:04:44 AM »
I'm laid down in the back of the Expedition and my wife is driving us through the Florida darkness.  By daylight we'll arrive at our house.  It's been almost three months since we've been there.  This week kicks off summer vacations for us.  We'll be headed to Tampa in a few days for some beach and amusement park fun with friends.  The one mores continue to drop.  One more Easter, one more Fourth of July, one more Christmas, one more Mardi Gras. 
I can't imagine what it will be like having an open schedule.  No more torture on the body trying to squeeze every moment out of time off.  We just turned the dog leg from the panhandle to the peninsula.  We'd been eating up longitude headed east.  Now we're dropping latitude headed south.  Almost to the Suwannee River now.  I hope to paddle that entire river in coming years along with so.many more.  Hopefully we get out on the Rainbow River or Crystal River this week.  Just checking in.  Hope all of you are doing good.

Certainly sounds better than the snow that was falling this morning.  Summer comes damned early down there.  Enjoy your break.

The pool is clean and 76 degrees.
76F is far too cold!

Agreed. Unless itís 90 degrees out.

Edit, fatfingered the Save, Preview buttons

I would suggest that 76F pool at 90+F will feel much too "crisp and refreshing".

76F pool is my old apartment's Maximum temperature.  It is my minimum reasonable temperature.
My pool ranges from 72F to 94F (118F max air temperature that day, no typo or exaggeration).

Pleasant temp is in the upper part of the Olympic pool range.  79 [+- 2]F   degrees, plus or minus one degree,  or 25į to 28į Celsius )

Some people feel differently https://www.outdoorswimmingsociety.com/cold-water-feels-temperature-guide/

I grew up swimming in Lake Superior on what we considered warm Summer days 80F (27C). The water temperature of the lake averages 46F (8C) but in Summer it could be up to 60F (16C).
I grew up similarly swimming in the New England ocean and turning blue while swimming. As an adult that no longer appeals (both swimming in the ocean and swimming in the cold). I think 82F is about the right pool temp for me. But those who swim in the lower temps have my respect and Iíll hold your towel.

fuzzy math

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6161 on: May 01, 2022, 10:33:05 AM »

Heck, I propped up my NW with fuzzy math based on having a pension plus home equity to get in this thread.

Glad to have been of assistance :)

Dicey

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6162 on: May 01, 2022, 10:37:01 AM »

Heck, I propped up my NW with fuzzy math based on having a pension plus home equity to get in this thread.

Glad to have been of assistance :)
Helpful and funny.

arcturus

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6163 on: May 01, 2022, 01:12:15 PM »
We might, then if they are accumulating they will buy more stocks and if in retirement will roll some bond funds into stocks. Maybe some will do nothing.

Either way its a temporary setback that ends at a higher rung up the ladder than before. Tragic..:)

I've got 460 days till my official retirement date.  I'll actually be gone with PTO use in about 54 weeks.  I liked seeing the portfolio above 3M, but we can look at this as last minute bargain shopping.   Pension and 401K will continue till August 2023.  The big reset button has been pushed.  It will be interesting to see how it all falls out.  We're all in a great position to ride this out and probably come out on top. 
Cheers

Agree with you.  I look at 2022 as a year to buy into the stock market at reasonable levels.  Unfortunately I did not have much cash on the sidelines, but have been using the opportunity to continue to just put a few more chips on the table on dips in the market.  I had been looking at 4200 S&P as that level (down roughly 10% from beginning of year), but now I'm reassessing since we're approaching 4100.  That, combined with 401k, etc., is at least allowing me to average in.

Just did my latest spreadsheet "cleanse" to update to end of April values.....deep breath.....then exhale -- still "roughly" on track.  I do think I preferred when the market was going up 15-20% per year, though.  Anyone agree with me on that??  :-)


on the road

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6164 on: May 02, 2022, 09:14:56 AM »
I may be living between two race threads for a little while...

Liquid net worth

      2020       2021       2022
Jan              $1,428K    $1,979K
Feb     $984K    $1,463K    $1,967K
Mar     $883K    $1,501K    $1,991K
Apr     $721K    $1,720K    $2,111K
May   $1,092K    $1,793K    $1,906K
Jun              $1,828K
Jul              $1,841K
Aug   $1,217K    $1,860K
Sep   $1,260K    $1,906K
Oct   $1,265K    $1,866K
Nov   $1,253K    $1,951K
Dec   $1,375K    $1,911K


Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6165 on: May 02, 2022, 11:22:17 AM »
I may be living between two race threads for a little while...

Liquid net worth

      2020       2021       2022
Jan              $1,428K    $1,979K
Feb     $984K    $1,463K    $1,967K
Mar     $883K    $1,501K    $1,991K
Apr     $721K    $1,720K    $2,111K
May   $1,092K    $1,793K    $1,906K
Jun              $1,828K
Jul              $1,841K
Aug   $1,217K    $1,860K
Sep   $1,260K    $1,906K
Oct   $1,265K    $1,866K
Nov   $1,253K    $1,951K
Dec   $1,375K    $1,911K


I can feel the frustration in this post..:)

BeanCounter

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6166 on: May 02, 2022, 11:45:42 AM »
Down $478k or 11.9% from Dec 2021.
Trying to decide if we should still move forward with a lower level remodel or if this is the time you wait on projects like that?

or does it even matter??? remembering my conversation with Fidelity last fall when they said nothing really matters at this level.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6167 on: May 02, 2022, 12:52:15 PM »
Down $478k or 11.9% from Dec 2021.
Trying to decide if we should still move forward with a lower level remodel or if this is the time you wait on projects like that?

or does it even matter??? remembering my conversation with Fidelity last fall when they said nothing really matters at this level.

Not to be a party pooper, but I'd question your Fidelity Advisor's advice.  When the markets are breaking down and if you begin to feel nervous, it's only 'normal' to take a pause and not commit to a large discretionary expense.  You might get a better price if the housing market cools off with rates continuing to go up, and you might want to adjust the scale of the outlay or scope of the project if we truly are headed for a significant correction. 

Maybe this market blip passes and you move ahead with the remodel in a month or so, but I go back to October of 2008 when I was on the most expensive vacation of my life (a Mediterranean cruise) and the market was falling apart...  Still had fun, but thank goodness I had steady income...  we also had a lot of cash because we needed to buy a home since our expat assignment was coming to an end.

SwordGuy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6168 on: May 02, 2022, 01:12:06 PM »
Down $478k or 11.9% from Dec 2021.
Trying to decide if we should still move forward with a lower level remodel or if this is the time you wait on projects like that?

or does it even matter??? remembering my conversation with Fidelity last fall when they said nothing really matters at this level.

Not to be a party pooper, but I'd question your Fidelity Advisor's advice.  When the markets are breaking down and if you begin to feel nervous, it's only 'normal' to take a pause and not commit to a large discretionary expense.  You might get a better price if the housing market cools off with rates continuing to go up, and you might want to adjust the scale of the outlay or scope of the project if we truly are headed for a significant correction. 

Maybe this market blip passes and you move ahead with the remodel in a month or so, but I go back to October of 2008 when I was on the most expensive vacation of my life (a Mediterranean cruise) and the market was falling apart...  Still had fun, but thank goodness I had steady income...  we also had a lot of cash because we needed to buy a home since our expat assignment was coming to an end.

11.9% loss is $478K.

Do the math.  They've still got well over $4M.  (I'm assuming stocks and bonds and such, not real estate values.)

If so, it would have to be one hell of a remodel to make a difference.   Or their spending would have to be really high on top of that -- neither of which are consistent with that large an amount of investable assets that weren't inherited or won in a lottery...

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6169 on: May 02, 2022, 01:19:38 PM »
Down $478k or 11.9% from Dec 2021.
Trying to decide if we should still move forward with a lower level remodel or if this is the time you wait on projects like that?

or does it even matter??? remembering my conversation with Fidelity last fall when they said nothing really matters at this level.

I'd wait out the remodel till the recession gets imbedded.  You may get labor and materials at a more reasonable cost later this year.  I'd continue to vacation and do family stuff.   Y'all still have a ton of capital, so the risk of spending too much on the remodel is likely low . 

Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6170 on: May 02, 2022, 01:20:42 PM »
Down $478k or 11.9% from Dec 2021.
Trying to decide if we should still move forward with a lower level remodel or if this is the time you wait on projects like that?

or does it even matter??? remembering my conversation with Fidelity last fall when they said nothing really matters at this level.

Not to be a party pooper, but I'd question your Fidelity Advisor's advice.  When the markets are breaking down and if you begin to feel nervous, it's only 'normal' to take a pause and not commit to a large discretionary expense.  You might get a better price if the housing market cools off with rates continuing to go up, and you might want to adjust the scale of the outlay or scope of the project if we truly are headed for a significant correction. 

Maybe this market blip passes and you move ahead with the remodel in a month or so, but I go back to October of 2008 when I was on the most expensive vacation of my life (a Mediterranean cruise) and the market was falling apart...  Still had fun, but thank goodness I had steady income...  we also had a lot of cash because we needed to buy a home since our expat assignment was coming to an end.

11.9% loss is $478K.

Do the math.  They've still got well over $4M.  (I'm assuming stocks and bonds and such, not real estate values.)

If so, it would have to be one hell of a remodel to make a difference.   Or their spending would have to be really high on top of that -- neither of which are consistent with that large an amount of investable assets that weren't inherited or won in a lottery...

Well scale is everything right?

I mean two years ago our WR was 0.69% and last year we bought a new SUV for $35k.. Now at a NW of over $4M who cares?

Now if the remodel is $250k (quite plausible) then hmm, maybe not right now.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6171 on: May 02, 2022, 01:55:51 PM »
Down $478k or 11.9% from Dec 2021.
Trying to decide if we should still move forward with a lower level remodel or if this is the time you wait on projects like that?

or does it even matter??? remembering my conversation with Fidelity last fall when they said nothing really matters at this level.

Not to be a party pooper, but I'd question your Fidelity Advisor's advice.  When the markets are breaking down and if you begin to feel nervous, it's only 'normal' to take a pause and not commit to a large discretionary expense.  You might get a better price if the housing market cools off with rates continuing to go up, and you might want to adjust the scale of the outlay or scope of the project if we truly are headed for a significant correction. 

Maybe this market blip passes and you move ahead with the remodel in a month or so, but I go back to October of 2008 when I was on the most expensive vacation of my life (a Mediterranean cruise) and the market was falling apart...  Still had fun, but thank goodness I had steady income...  we also had a lot of cash because we needed to buy a home since our expat assignment was coming to an end.

11.9% loss is $478K.

Do the math.  They've still got well over $4M.  (I'm assuming stocks and bonds and such, not real estate values.)

If so, it would have to be one hell of a remodel to make a difference.   Or their spending would have to be really high on top of that -- neither of which are consistent with that large an amount of investable assets that weren't inherited or won in a lottery...

Well scale is everything right?

I mean two years ago our WR was 0.69% and last year we bought a new SUV for $35k.. Now at a NW of over $4M who cares?

Now if the remodel is $250k (quite plausible) then hmm, maybe not right now.

Of course, this is all easy to say when you're discussing other people's money :)

Up to Beanie what she decides to do.  And ultimately, my $15k family vacation in 2008 is now great memories and was hardly a blip in our finances.

But yeah, how much of a remodel outlay are we talking here?

couponvan

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6172 on: May 02, 2022, 02:35:28 PM »
I think itís funny @BeanCounter it auto corrected to bra counter. Ok-do the remodel. If you need to, you have a very marketable skill, and in a worst case, the accountants are almost always one of the last to go.
I was sad on our decline last month, but since we have less invested, we lost less.

BeanCounter

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6173 on: May 02, 2022, 04:27:58 PM »
 Well! Your responses really make me realize that this is actually more of an emotional decision and not just math.
The math-
 Sitting at $3.5 invested. Home equity is about $170k but we never count it because we have to live somewhere. I think we still have about $170k left on our mortgage but we don't pay it down because it's 2.15% interest.
Our withdrawal rate while we still have kids home is about 3.1%-3.5% currently but will increase slightly as tuition increases.
For a variety of reasons only known to him, DH is still working. If something were to happen to his job though I think he'd be done. But for now we still have that income and it brings our withdrawal rate down to like 0.06%.

The emotional stuff-
 - The lower level remodel (contractors don't like to use the term basement, but that's what it is. Except it walks out.) will likely be in the $20k-$40k range (depending on which spouse wins)
It is a purely aesthetic job as everything existing is neat, clean and functional. It's just not exactly what we want. And so this is where I get hung up. It's not something that really needs to be done. Would the teens enjoy something more modern? Maybe. Does it matter? Probably not.

But after I typed my first message I looked at my earnings after taxes from my contract work and I've already paid for the remodel and the Disney trip with that revenue. So I guess it doesn't matter if we make a totally frivolous purchase of an unnecessary remodel.

So it's not a big deal really. It's not a lot of money when compared to NW. But because we don't spend a lot on our day to day expenses it feels really spendy. If that makes any sense? But we also live in a much cheaper home than we could afford so that we could make it all perfect.

I think this is what the Fidelity guy was trying to tell me- Nobody in your shoes spends this much time thinking about $20k. Ugh.

Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6174 on: May 02, 2022, 04:39:15 PM »
@BeanCounter I think the emotional part might come from being frugal for many years. Its like you have one really well developed skill.. I.e NOT spending money/saving because we are poor right?

This works great until your not poor then it results in conflict. I mean we spent $35k on a stupid car that we didn't even need, yeah the $$ are a drop in the bucket but its still more money than I spent on my first HOUSE..on a thing that loses value hand over fist no less.

Inner bag lady/man syndrome.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6175 on: May 02, 2022, 06:29:11 PM »
Well! Your responses really make me realize that this is actually more of an emotional decision and not just math.
The math-
 Sitting at $3.5 invested. Home equity is about $170k but we never count it because we have to live somewhere. I think we still have about $170k left on our mortgage but we don't pay it down because it's 2.15% interest.
Our withdrawal rate while we still have kids home is about 3.1%-3.5% currently but will increase slightly as tuition increases.
For a variety of reasons only known to him, DH is still working. If something were to happen to his job though I think he'd be done. But for now we still have that income and it brings our withdrawal rate down to like 0.06%.

The emotional stuff-
 - The lower level remodel (contractors don't like to use the term basement, but that's what it is. Except it walks out.) will likely be in the $20k-$40k range (depending on which spouse wins)
It is a purely aesthetic job as everything existing is neat, clean and functional. It's just not exactly what we want. And so this is where I get hung up. It's not something that really needs to be done. Would the teens enjoy something more modern? Maybe. Does it matter? Probably not.

But after I typed my first message I looked at my earnings after taxes from my contract work and I've already paid for the remodel and the Disney trip with that revenue. So I guess it doesn't matter if we make a totally frivolous purchase of an unnecessary remodel.

So it's not a big deal really. It's not a lot of money when compared to NW. But because we don't spend a lot on our day to day expenses it feels really spendy. If that makes any sense? But we also live in a much cheaper home than we could afford so that we could make it all perfect.

I think this is what the Fidelity guy was trying to tell me- Nobody in your shoes spends this much time thinking about $20k. Ugh.

Ah, well that does help fill in the picture.  When you were talking about a $478k paper loss then a remodel, I somehow conflated the two numbers to be somewhat in the same ballpark, like at least a six digit outlay.  $20 - 40k is less than a tiny fluctuation in daily NW, and in these volatile times you will be up or down more than that depending on the hour of the day.

With all that said, I still understand how unsettling it feels to become unmoored from what used to be significant spending decisions.  I guess one way to look at it is the fact that you still have an income, so no time better than now to go for it...

Out of interest, I thought about the numbers for my vacation again - the markets had taken us from $1M at the beginning of the year down to $700k at the time of the cruise, so $15k would be equivalent to $75k at your 3.5M NW...  if the markets continue to fall, the $75k threshold will continue to fall, but still $40k is ~50% away...

Sounds much more like an emotional block to find your peace with, but I appreciate you sharing your thoughts.  You are not alone, loads of folks in this cohort with negligible SWR's...
« Last Edit: May 02, 2022, 06:30:47 PM by EscapeVelocity2020 »

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6176 on: May 02, 2022, 09:24:56 PM »
Well! Your responses really make me realize that this is actually more of an emotional decision and not just math.
The math-
 Sitting at $3.5 invested. Home equity is about $170k but we never count it because we have to live somewhere. I think we still have about $170k left on our mortgage but we don't pay it down because it's 2.15% interest.
Our withdrawal rate while we still have kids home is about 3.1%-3.5% currently but will increase slightly as tuition increases.
For a variety of reasons only known to him, DH is still working. If something were to happen to his job though I think he'd be done. But for now we still have that income and it brings our withdrawal rate down to like 0.06%.

The emotional stuff-
 - The lower level remodel (contractors don't like to use the term basement, but that's what it is. Except it walks out.) will likely be in the $20k-$40k range (depending on which spouse wins)
It is a purely aesthetic job as everything existing is neat, clean and functional. It's just not exactly what we want. And so this is where I get hung up. It's not something that really needs to be done. Would the teens enjoy something more modern? Maybe. Does it matter? Probably not.

But after I typed my first message I looked at my earnings after taxes from my contract work and I've already paid for the remodel and the Disney trip with that revenue. So I guess it doesn't matter if we make a totally frivolous purchase of an unnecessary remodel.

So it's not a big deal really. It's not a lot of money when compared to NW. But because we don't spend a lot on our day to day expenses it feels really spendy. If that makes any sense? But we also live in a much cheaper home than we could afford so that we could make it all perfect.

I think this is what the Fidelity guy was trying to tell me- Nobody in your shoes spends this much time thinking about $20k. Ugh.

I'd highly recommend listening to Ramit Sethi's I Will Teach You To Be Rich podcast for help reconciling feelings like these.  In fact, the latest episode titled, "We're Worth $5 million but my wife nearly canceled our trip to save $200" is such a good one and completely relevant to a lot of us fruGALS (and guys) in this thread but many others are great also.  We're approaching the "... and beyond" territory and likely well into it if I could take the recent run-up in real estate prices seriously and I also struggle with the same thoughts and feelings as you and the wife in the podcast episode I mentioned... btw I'm 38!  I will say, I would never change hotels for one night out of 3 just to save $200 though... my time is worth more than that :).

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6177 on: May 02, 2022, 11:02:07 PM »
@Jesstache

I listened to the same podcast this weekend.  I'm in the process of booking multiple vacations right now. 
I'm still bargain shopping a bit.  I'll still sacrifice Oceanview rooms if it's more than $100 extra a night. 

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6178 on: May 02, 2022, 11:53:56 PM »
The IRS is still sitting on an over $6k tax refund from last year.   Going to contact my congressman, brown-nosing Trumpite imbecile that he is, to see if he can light a fire under the IRS.

We won't have any farm income this year or next.  We're levelling the farmland this year to improve yields.  The sharecrop farmer will get the whole crop next year to compensate for contributing substantial cash to level the land.
We struck that deal this year before the Russian invasion of Ukraine.   I suspect grain prices will still be higher than normal next year, so the farmer got a deal.

Expenses are up this year, over and above inflation.   We're hosting a refugee artist from Ukraine in our home.   So, food costs will be up 33%.   Electrical will be up as we'll both be enameling.   And I'm picking up tools and materials for them to use if I don't already have them.

And, of course, stocks and bonds are down about $164K for the year.  We'll see whether they're still down when we need to sell some later this year.

Rents are up and we've already got enough set aside for all property taxes (even our home) plus all insurance.   So we can start drawing on rents to cover the gap caused by the farm income loss -- unless we have a major repair this year we can't postpone a year.

Discovered more accurate farmland pricing in January and so our farmland is valued at about 110% more than last year.   That was a nice surprise.  Rental houses and our home have also gone up in value, so our net worth is actually up about $493k from what we calculated at the end of last year.

We plan to maintain our $1k a month charitable giving, but we're a few months behind.   That tax return was supposed to fund over 6 month's worth of charitable giving this year.  With expenses up and income down this year, something had to give.   I don't want to sell stocks while they are down unless we have to, so I'll wait until the market goes up or the tax refund comes in.

Spent a ton of money on our hobbies last year.   Won't spend as much this year but it will still be an expensive year -- and worth every penny.  I'm slowly reconciling myself to splurging this way.

I think I've solved the enameling problems I was having so I'm about to turn out a number of pieces of jewelry and wall art.  Feels good!


BeanCounter

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6179 on: May 03, 2022, 01:02:54 PM »
Whoa. You guys. I listened to that podcast. Wow, was it eye opening.
She might be slightly worse than me. I'm pretty good about spending on travel, as I see it as worthwhile expense. But I couldn't bring myself to pay for an alcoholic beverage at Disney, so there is that....

It's hard to change these mindsets. Like, I won't buy a luxury car even though I want one because "we are not those kind of people, a Honda is just fine".

The part of the podcast where they do the follow up and she says she's finally getting a new phone and dumping her 6s, I looked down at my phone and gasped (still have a 6s too).

The contractor is coming by on Friday to look at the basement and work up a concept design.

I'm really appreciative of this group for understanding these things. It's not something I can talk to IRL friends or family about, but it is something that we need help navigating.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2022, 01:04:54 PM by BeanCounter »

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6180 on: May 03, 2022, 03:48:38 PM »
Whoa. You guys. I listened to that podcast. Wow, was it eye opening.
She might be slightly worse than me. I'm pretty good about spending on travel, as I see it as worthwhile expense. But I couldn't bring myself to pay for an alcoholic beverage at Disney, so there is that....

It's hard to change these mindsets. Like, I won't buy a luxury car even though I want one because "we are not those kind of people, a Honda is just fine".

The part of the podcast where they do the follow up and she says she's finally getting a new phone and dumping her 6s, I looked down at my phone and gasped (still have a 6s too).

The contractor is coming by on Friday to look at the basement and work up a concept design.

I'm really appreciative of this group for understanding these things. It's not something I can talk to IRL friends or family about, but it is something that we need help navigating.

Cool Beans :)

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6181 on: May 03, 2022, 05:27:37 PM »
I'm really appreciative of this group for understanding these things. It's not something I can talk to IRL friends or family about, but it is something that we need help navigating.

No kidding!

I would get significantly less than zero sympathy from almost everyone on this topic. 

BeanCounter

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6182 on: May 03, 2022, 05:33:44 PM »
Whoa. You guys. I listened to that podcast. Wow, was it eye opening.
She might be slightly worse than me. I'm pretty good about spending on travel, as I see it as worthwhile expense. But I couldn't bring myself to pay for an alcoholic beverage at Disney, so there is that....

It's hard to change these mindsets. Like, I won't buy a luxury car even though I want one because "we are not those kind of people, a Honda is just fine".

The part of the podcast where they do the follow up and she says she's finally getting a new phone and dumping her 6s, I looked down at my phone and gasped (still have a 6s too).

The contractor is coming by on Friday to look at the basement and work up a concept design.

I'm really appreciative of this group for understanding these things. It's not something I can talk to IRL friends or family about, but it is something that we need help navigating.

Cool Beans :)

Haha! Today I learned that I have taken Bean counting to a whole other level. :)

BeanCounter

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6183 on: May 03, 2022, 05:36:50 PM »
I'm really appreciative of this group for understanding these things. It's not something I can talk to IRL friends or family about, but it is something that we need help navigating.

No kidding!

I would get significantly less than zero sympathy from almost everyone on this topic.

Are there support groups for not being able to spend money? Maybe there should be? (But I donít want to be in with the crazy hoarders. We are not that)

couponvan

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6184 on: May 03, 2022, 06:57:16 PM »
I'm really appreciative of this group for understanding these things. It's not something I can talk to IRL friends or family about, but it is something that we need help navigating.

No kidding!

I would get significantly less than zero sympathy from almost everyone on this topic.

Are there support groups for not being able to spend money? Maybe there should be? (But I donít want to be in with the crazy hoarders. We are not that)
LOL - Ultimate Home Planner Group on Facebook versus Declutter 365. I belong to both, but ďidentityĒ with UHP. This was started by the Passionate Penny Pincher, who was found she is rich. You and me.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6185 on: May 03, 2022, 08:04:39 PM »
Swordguy, if your representative has poor constituent service, try your Senators.

SwordGuy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6186 on: May 03, 2022, 11:24:50 PM »
Swordguy, if your representative has poor constituent service, try your Senators.

I'm hoping his staff has some capability.

He's had his head so far up Trump's ass for so long he has little sense of perspective left on the issues of the day.

One of our senators received an early briefing on how bad the covid epidemic would be.  He believed it.   So, instead of telling the public in our state (and contradict Trump), he just privately told his major campaign donors how bad it would be.  And made some stock trades on the insider information.   Lots of dead North Carolinians trace back to that deplorable dereliction of duty.

The other senator has his head firmly up Trump's ass too.

So I don't hold out a lot of hope, but it's worth a try.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6187 on: May 04, 2022, 02:39:10 AM »

It's hard to change these mindsets. Like, I won't buy a luxury car even though I want one because "we are not those kind of people, a Honda is just fine".


I hear you :-) Last year when I was car shopping, I could have bought anything, even a Mercedes S class, with minimal impact on our finances. After a month of test drives, I was completely unimpressed by the luxury makes. I actually wound up buying a Honda CR-V because I just could not get myself to spend more than $35k on a car.

BeanCounter

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6188 on: May 04, 2022, 05:04:38 AM »

It's hard to change these mindsets. Like, I won't buy a luxury car even though I want one because "we are not those kind of people, a Honda is just fine".


I hear you :-) Last year when I was car shopping, I could have bought anything, even a Mercedes S class, with minimal impact on our finances. After a month of test drives, I was completely unimpressed by the luxury makes. I actually wound up buying a Honda CR-V because I just could not get myself to spend more than $35k on a car.

I have a 10 year old CRV! Great car!! I would really like to replace it with an RDX simply because they ride a little bit quieter, but I know when the time comes I wonít be able to write that check!! Iíll probably end up with another CRV. We do buy the fully loaded model, that should count for something- nobody needs leather seats after all!!

Remember last Jan we finally had to replace our old Accord and I came here fretting about buying new vs used. We did end up with a slightly used 2020 but only because it was the last year they made the 2T and thatís what DH really wanted.

ingrownstudentloans

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6189 on: May 04, 2022, 07:02:43 AM »
Joining this race after a short stint in the 1-2 race.  Focusing on continuing to double my money in as short a period of time as possible.

(tracking retirement accounts, taxable accounts and conservative equity in my rental properties, investment land and side businesses)

12/2014    $32,000
12/2016    $64,000 (24 months)
1/2018      $128,000 (25 months)
5/2019      $256,000 (16 months)
11/2020  $512,000 (19 months)
12/2021  $1,024,000 (13 months)
4/2022    $2,048,000 (4 months)
[10/2023 $4,096,000 (19 months] **TARGET**
--
4/1/2022     $2,336,219
5/1/2022     $2,398,670
« Last Edit: May 04, 2022, 07:20:25 AM by ingrownstudentloans »

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6190 on: May 04, 2022, 08:02:26 AM »
Swordguy, if your representative has poor constituent service, try your Senators.

I'm hoping his staff has some capability.

He's had his head so far up Trump's ass for so long he has little sense of perspective left on the issues of the day.

One of our senators received an early briefing on how bad the covid epidemic would be.  He believed it.   So, instead of telling the public in our state (and contradict Trump), he just privately told his major campaign donors how bad it would be.  And made some stock trades on the insider information.   Lots of dead North Carolinians trace back to that deplorable dereliction of duty.

The other senator has his head firmly up Trump's ass too.

So I don't hold out a lot of hope, but it's worth a try.

I interned at one of my Senators office in college.  The Detroit office had a constituent services staff for the state.  (I was in a smaller city office that had a staff of 2).  Their job was literally to help people in the state with specific problems.  With that, Iím a Fed, one of my retirement newsletters is telling people that in order to get our pensions correct in a timely manner, people are having success with congressional phone calls.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6191 on: May 04, 2022, 08:05:48 AM »

It's hard to change these mindsets. Like, I won't buy a luxury car even though I want one because "we are not those kind of people, a Honda is just fine".


I hear you :-) Last year when I was car shopping, I could have bought anything, even a Mercedes S class, with minimal impact on our finances. After a month of test drives, I was completely unimpressed by the luxury makes. I actually wound up buying a Honda CR-V because I just could not get myself to spend more than $35k on a car.

I have a 10 year old CRV! Great car!! I would really like to replace it with an RDX simply because they ride a little bit quieter, but I know when the time comes I wonít be able to write that check!! Iíll probably end up with another CRV. We do buy the fully loaded model, that should count for something- nobody needs leather seats after all!!

Remember last Jan we finally had to replace our old Accord and I came here fretting about buying new vs used. We did end up with a slightly used 2020 but only because it was the last year they made the 2T and thatís what DH really wanted.

That is me with Hotels.  I have stayed at very nice hotels, mainly overseas due to work.  Iím fine with business level hotels.  Give me a Courtyard or a Hilton Garden Inn vs a Ritz/Waldorf the marginal gain just doesnít seem a good value. Iím not sure what my next car will be, my Jeep Renegade is only 6 years old, in 10 years the car space is going to look different then now.

ixtap

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6192 on: May 04, 2022, 08:30:59 AM »

It's hard to change these mindsets. Like, I won't buy a luxury car even though I want one because "we are not those kind of people, a Honda is just fine".


I hear you :-) Last year when I was car shopping, I could have bought anything, even a Mercedes S class, with minimal impact on our finances. After a month of test drives, I was completely unimpressed by the luxury makes. I actually wound up buying a Honda CR-V because I just could not get myself to spend more than $35k on a car.

I have a 10 year old CRV! Great car!! I would really like to replace it with an RDX simply because they ride a little bit quieter, but I know when the time comes I wonít be able to write that check!! Iíll probably end up with another CRV. We do buy the fully loaded model, that should count for something- nobody needs leather seats after all!!

Remember last Jan we finally had to replace our old Accord and I came here fretting about buying new vs used. We did end up with a slightly used 2020 but only because it was the last year they made the 2T and thatís what DH really wanted.

That is me with Hotels.  I have stayed at very nice hotels, mainly overseas due to work.  Iím fine with business level hotels.  Give me a Courtyard or a Hilton Garden Inn vs a Ritz/Waldorf the marginal gain just doesnít seem a good value. Iím not sure what my next car will be, my Jeep Renegade is only 6 years old, in 10 years the car space is going to look different then now.

We are all over Holiday Inn Express. DH loves the cinnamon rolls, as well as the price.

Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6193 on: May 04, 2022, 08:35:15 AM »

It's hard to change these mindsets. Like, I won't buy a luxury car even though I want one because "we are not those kind of people, a Honda is just fine".


I hear you :-) Last year when I was car shopping, I could have bought anything, even a Mercedes S class, with minimal impact on our finances. After a month of test drives, I was completely unimpressed by the luxury makes. I actually wound up buying a Honda CR-V because I just could not get myself to spend more than $35k on a car.

Same here.. We got a new base model AWD Passport for $35k.. This car seems outrageously decadent to us us.. It HUGE and the difference between the base model and the top end is leather seats and a shiny badge on the back.. Oh and about $15k of course.. No thanks.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6194 on: May 04, 2022, 08:38:50 AM »

We are all over Holiday Inn Express. DH loves the cinnamon rolls, as well as the price.

Same here, especially as I still have about 10 nights free on points that I earned from my business travel days..:)

couponvan

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6195 on: May 04, 2022, 08:56:02 AM »

We are all over Holiday Inn Express. DH loves the cinnamon rolls, as well as the price.

Same here, especially as I still have about 10 nights free on points that I earned from my business travel days..:)

We love those too. 

I'm also a big Hyatt Place/House fan with three kids.  They are one of the few chains that allow 5 people in a room.  They have the two queen beds and the sofa bed.  With 3 kids also getting free breakfast, I consider it a massive value.  The 5,000 point per night redemptions making hotel rooms effectively $50-75/night with Chase UR points were awesome.  (Those valuations are changing this year, and I am sad.)

Dicey

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6196 on: May 04, 2022, 09:58:44 AM »

We are all over Holiday Inn Express. DH loves the cinnamon rolls, as well as the price.

Same here, especially as I still have about 10 nights free on points that I earned from my business travel days..:)

We are all over Holiday Inn Express. DH loves the cinnamon rolls, as well as the price.

Same here, especially as I still have about 10 nights free on points that I earned from my business travel days..:)

We love those too. 

I'm also a big Hyatt Place/House fan with three kids.  They are one of the few chains that allow 5 people in a room.  They have the two queen beds and the sofa bed.  With 3 kids also getting free breakfast, I consider it a massive value.  The 5,000 point per night redemptions making hotel rooms effectively $50-75/night with Chase UR points were awesome.  (Those valuations are changing this year, and I am sad.)
DH and I love our IHG Rewards cards. I have over 500k points from my working days and collectively, we still have around 700k points. We've used a bunch, too. (I retired almost ten years ago.)

Best tip: buy rooms with the "Points + Cash" option, because what you're actually doing is buying more points, not paying for a room. Therefore, you neatly sidestep the taxes, which y'all know can be ridiculous on hotel rooms. If you cancel the reservation, the additional points are just added to your account. Once upon a time, when I was a total points junkie, when the deal was right, I'd make a P+C reservation and cancel it, just for the cheap points.

BeanCounter

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6197 on: May 04, 2022, 10:27:31 AM »
I have never mastered the travel points game. We have a chase sapphire card and I don't know that we've ever really done well with it. I always end up spending my points on Amazon stuff we need. It always seems like when I'm going to book travel through them it's more than another website. So I must be missing something.

secondcor521

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6198 on: May 04, 2022, 10:48:45 AM »
I have never mastered the travel points game. We have a chase sapphire card and I don't know that we've ever really done well with it. I always end up spending my points on Amazon stuff we need. It always seems like when I'm going to book travel through them it's more than another website. So I must be missing something.

It's definitely a learning curve.  There are all sorts of websites out there, but I've never put in enough effort to learn enough to be a pro at it.  And I think even in the best case, there is hassle involved (transferring points, booking flights on non-US carrier websites, setting up accounts, etc.) which may not be hassle if you're into that sort of thing.

couponvan

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6199 on: May 04, 2022, 11:40:20 AM »
I have never mastered the travel points game. We have a chase sapphire card and I don't know that we've ever really done well with it. I always end up spending my points on Amazon stuff we need. It always seems like when I'm going to book travel through them it's more than another website. So I must be missing something.
You set up a Hyatt membership. Then on Chase you choose transfer to travel partners. Then you use Hyatt points to book the room. (Or points + cash if that makes financial sense on a redemption.) Hyatt and Marriott are the two we use. Iíve had a hard time with airfare redemptions just because we fly a lot of discount airlines. Breeze, Jet Blue, and Spirit.