Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!

[SwordGuy]

Just a thought, but couldn't you just go live somewhere for a year and not bother with a job?

We have two kids in high school, and my husband's job requires him to be nearby 2-3 days/week, so not currently an option.

Sorry, wasn't clear.  That comment was meant for @EscapeVelocity2020 .

[Taran Wanderer]

Well, I took a break from our vacation to do our taxes today. Using TurboTax it took about 5 hours to enter everything, but when all was said and done, we paid 5 dollars more to the Feds than we got from the state.  Nice to have it line up so nicely.  Each year our taxes get a little more complicated, but TurboTax seems to handle it fine and costs about a quarter the cost of an accountant. We’ll see how things look in 2022… I have some changes brewing.

I’ve been on the fence about leaving my job for several years. It’s been up and down for me for a while, but it’s now mostly down. FIRE is an option, but I like the challenges of work and the type of people I get to work with. The company has grown big enough that the internal politics and procedures take more effort than the actual work. It’s the work that is rewarding, not the bureaucratic games. A couple of months ago, a longtime business associate offered me a position somewhat out of the blue. My initial gut feeling was ‘Yes!’ And I continue to feel that way. Now it’s time to work out final details. It will be similar to potentially more money than now, a little more focused work but also an ownership position and leading the business. So, 2022 taxes will have another level of added complication. Should be interesting.

It’s funny thinking about FIRE vs new job. If you’d told me 10 years ago that we’d by sitting on a $3.2M net worth and I’d be thinking of a new job rather than just hanging it up, I would have said you’re crazy, but I’m excited to take on something different, yet similar, and with people I’ve known for a long time. It could be really fun. Or maybe it will suck and I really will FIRE. I’ll keep you all posted.

[2sk22]

Husband has no desire to retire/FIRE. We can all move to his work health care plan, which we are familiar with (I am at the same company). His compensation more than covers our current expenses. We have plenty saved for retirement. Why is it so scary?

Am I missing anything? Any words of wisdom or things I should be thinking about for the next few months? I'm being ridiculous & should just pull the trigger, right?

Not quite at your income level but our household AGI did exceed $600k in 2020. I had had enough and retired although my wife is still working (and earning a fabulous amount). Our invested net worth is about $6M despite the current downturn.

I will be turning 60 soon. My dad died of complications from Alzheimers at age 85 - the last three years of his life were hell for him and all of us. My mom recently unexpectedly passed away from a heart attack at age 83. I feel the passage of time - I don't want to waste another minute of my life doing some bullshit job.

In the words of Paul Simon :-)

"The problem is all inside your head"
She said to me
"The answer is easy if you
Take it logically
I'd like to help you in your struggle
To be free
There must be fifty ways
To leave your lover job"

[EscapeVelocity2020]

@EscapeVelocity2020 - my comp is high, but a larger portion is due to a very big increase in my company stock. No plans to landlord - we don't own any rental properties, and don't need to draw down our investments. We'll be living on my husband's salary.

I think the larger point is fair, I expect my comp to continue to rise, particularly this year with the desire for the company to retain high level talent. I guess the question is "when do you ever quit"? I'm making a lot (last year was $850k, I think). I expect this year to be similar, but some stock market variability. I already feel like I can't leave because the money is so good, so I'm not sure that's the right yardstick for decision making.

IMHO, the actual numbers don't matter (although 850k does turn a few heads), it's all relative.  Are things getting better or worse?  For me, my quality of life has taken a few ups and downs since hitting FI.  This will be anecdotal, but things were getting worse for us and we were at lean FI, so I applied for an expat assignment fully intending to ER anyway.  The two years overseas with my DW 'retired' with the kids was really nice and we hit a more comfortable FI so I kept working.  Then things started to suck again and we were fat FI, but I had another opportunity to do 'one more' expat assignment (which didn't turn out to be the last one, of course).  We lived in Dubai and had a spectacular 2 years.  I would've missed that opportunity had I just figured I 'had to' ER at fat FI.  Then after that high point, things have calmed back down to a nice cruising altitude but now the kids don't necessarily need 2 parents at home and I enjoy my work.  I also had one last expat assignment in Paris for a year, so that was fun...

So all I'm trying to say is, it's not just about the money.  There are opportunities you have when you are working, or in the workforce and FI, and times like now are a good time to be 46 and not limiting yourself with 'well I have plenty of money so I guess I'll just retire and figure it out'.  Nothing wrong with that if it feels right, you are FI, but so are lots of folks these days with the crazy high real estate prices, crypto, and markets.  Maybe chill out for a year and, if nothing changes and it still feels right, then go for it!

I found, several times, that OMY gave me opportunities that I'm really glad I didn't miss!  No regrets, even though I get the 'slippery slope' worry of how easily OMY becomes complacency for some people too.

I've been in tech 25 years longer than I desired/wanted, so I wouldn't say it's getting particularly worse, but I'm certainly not enjoying it. I feel reasonably confident there are a bunch of other things out there that I could be doing that I would enjoy more, be it part time, volunteering, taking months to just enjoy life, write a book, whatever. The job comes with plenty of stress, and it's unpredictable. It also tends to be the busiest at really inopportune times (weekends, holidays, during times of crisis, etc). It's not always hard, but it's also a lot of travel, which I hate. Combined with the jet lag, that's definitely the least favorite part of my job. Oh, and managing teams in all of the time zones, which means all kinds of weird hours & late/early calls.

I'm not (I don't think) at a place of telling myself, "hey, you have enough money to quit, may as well FIRE", but rather finally getting over my ridiculous financial goal posts to give myself the freedom to try something more enjoyable.

But, this entire discussion is, of course, why I have the dilemma. :-)

We all have our unique circumstances, that's for sure.  My decision to keep working is easy because I enjoy working with my colleagues and enjoy the challenge.  Each day is different, and on top of that, work takes care of a lot of nuisances that I prefer not to deal with - figuring out health care, doing my taxes for me, and giving me cash flow to try new things without having to dip in to the stache.  At some point I'll hang it up, but just knowing that I can gives me the feeling of liberation I need, while also making me feel wanted and appreciated. 

Your case is more ambivalent and you've said that you 'feel guilty' quitting.  Well, that's not a very good reason to keep working!  Maybe you need to 'consciously uncouple' from the job and see what happens, both on your end and theirs.  You shouldn't have to travel and deal with high stress if you're FI and these things are causing autoimmune issues.  Health is paramount, both physical and mental, and it sounds like the best path to your best health is giving your employer a clear message that you are putting yourself first.  In my case, my company would bend over backwards to keep me on while also trying to satisfy my personal needs.  Folks were retiring during Covid and were given all sorts of bespoke packages to keep them on as long as possible.  One guy was working from his boat in Australia LOL!  Another guy was in the wilderness in Oregon for weeks at a time.  I'm definitely not going to be bashful about trying to tailor my exit...  Like you said, you've put in 25 more years than you wanted to, don't worry about 'asking for too much' or feeling guilted in to giving them more against your will!

Folks like us are lucky to have these first world problems, that's for sure. 

[Much Fishing to Do]

My spouse has zero desire to quit working.

That clinches it for me then, pull the trigger and get out, even if spouse's desires do change by then you'll have that nest egg at least doubled with everyone doing what they want to do.

[pecunia]

@2sk22 - Loved the Paul Simon thing.

[Dicey]

@2sk22 - Loved the Paul Simon thing.

Man, I love everything Paul Simon.

[Taran Wanderer]

@2sk22 - Loved the Paul Simon thing.

Man, I love everything Paul Simon.

Me and Julio, Kodachrome, Homeless… they make my spine tingle.

[Taran Wanderer]

A friend was telling us today about how she just switched jobs. She was describing the old job, and I felt like it was describing my frustrations to a T:

• top heavy org chart
• too much work
• can’t get approval to hire more people who do actual work
• bureaucracy that gets in the way of actual work
• endless stress with no light at the need of the tunnel
• leading a team with the same frustrations and having no way to relieve them

Even the solution offered to her was similar - more money, promotion, and even more stress. Something breaks in our companies when they get so big that the people at the top aren’t attached to the actual work anymore. Everything turns into a dollars and cents problem or a people problem.

[Dicey]

@2sk22 - Loved the Paul Simon thing.

Man, I love everything Paul Simon.

Me and Julio, Kodachrome, Homeless… they make my spine tingle.

Outstanding road trip music. And I love saying "mama pajama".

[2sk22]

A friend was telling us today about how she just switched jobs. She was describing the old job, and I felt like it was describing my frustrations to a T:

• top heavy org chart
• too much work
• can’t get approval to hire more people who do actual work
• bureaucracy that gets in the way of actual work
• endless stress with no light at the need of the tunnel
• leading a team with the same frustrations and having no way to relieve them

Even the solution offered to her was similar - more money, promotion, and even more stress. Something breaks in our companies when they get so big that the people at the top aren’t attached to the actual work anymore. Everything turns into a dollars and cents problem or a people problem.

This all sounds very familiar to me. My wife has worked her way up the hierarchy in her company and has probably reached her final level. She is approximately mid level in the executive ranks and she feels that there is very little point in trying to go any higher mostly for the reasons that you mentioned. Currently, her workload is significant but not taxing. Also, she is currently very well paid but could make even more if she switched to another company - but that would also involve a lot more work. Her current thought is to keep working as long as the money keeps rolling in and the workload is not too much. Whenever she feels stressed, she asks me for a readout of our finances. She says that that calms her down immediately :-)

[BeanCounter]

A friend was telling us today about how she just switched jobs. She was describing the old job, and I felt like it was describing my frustrations to a T:

• top heavy org chart
• too much work
• can’t get approval to hire more people who do actual work
• bureaucracy that gets in the way of actual work
• endless stress with no light at the need of the tunnel
• leading a team with the same frustrations and having no way to relieve them

Even the solution offered to her was similar - more money, promotion, and even more stress. Something breaks in our companies when they get so big that the people at the top aren’t attached to the actual work anymore. Everything turns into a dollars and cents problem or a people problem.

This all sounds very familiar to me. My wife has worked her way up the hierarchy in her company and has probably reached her final level. She is approximately mid level in the executive ranks and she feels that there is very little point in trying to go any higher mostly for the reasons that you mentioned. Currently, her workload is significant but not taxing. Also, she is currently very well paid but could make even more if she switched to another company - but that would also involve a lot more work. Her current thought is to keep working as long as the money keeps rolling in and the workload is not too much. Whenever she feels stressed, she asks me for a readout of our finances. She says that that calms her down immediately :-)

I FIRED in August of 2020. In May of 2021 my former employer was in a pinch and called me to do some contract work, so I've been working 15 hours or so a month for them. It was more last fall when I had some bigger projects going on.
The biggest thing I've noticed since I've been back is that this large employer is literally meeting its people to death. I really don't see how anyone can get any meaningful work done because they are on Zoom 6+ hours of the work day. The amount of meetings that we had were always a problem but it seems to have become worse since they went remote during COVID. It seems like 30% of the meeting invites are so that you are "in the loop" on a topic, 30% of the meetings are because "we might need your expertise for this topic", 20% are to give folks the opportunity to crow about things they have done or how important their job is, and 20% are 1:1s with boss, staff, or meetings about projects your actually working on.
I don't know how any business can function like this, or any employee (you have to do actual work on your free time so you can be available for 100 meetings a day). But I don't know how they can change it.
It's certainly been interesting watching this from "the outside". At least it has confirmed for me that quitting was the right decision. I don't care how much they pay me, I'm not going to spend my life on Zoom.

[BeanCounter]

Just dropping in today to say that going back to work on a part time contract for my former employer was the WORST decision I’ve ever made. 8 more weeks. I want to find a reason to end it early. DH says to stick it out, end on a high note (again) and buy myself something nice as a reward.

Heed this warning guys. When your old employer comes back asking for just a little temporary help, run. Run far fast.

[MaybeBabyMustache]

Just dropping in today to say that going back to work on a part time contract for my former employer was the WORST decision I’ve ever made. 8 more weeks. I want to find a reason to end it early. DH says to stick it out, end on a high note (again) and buy myself something nice as a reward.

Heed this warning guys. When your old employer comes back asking for just a little temporary help, run. Run far fast.

Appreciate this, @BeanCounter . Was the role not what you expected, or more that you weren't used to/ready to go back to the office & it no longer matched what you were willing to trade off for money?

[BeanCounter]

Just dropping in today to say that going back to work on a part time contract for my former employer was the WORST decision I’ve ever made. 8 more weeks. I want to find a reason to end it early. DH says to stick it out, end on a high note (again) and buy myself something nice as a reward.

Heed this warning guys. When your old employer comes back asking for just a little temporary help, run. Run far fast.

Appreciate this, @BeanCounter . Was the role not what you expected, or more that you weren't used to/ready to go back to the office & it no longer matched what you were willing to trade off for money?

@MaybeBabyMustache
I think it's more that I am still suffering from complete burnout from that position/employer. I was listening to the podcast "The Happiness Lab" (highly recommend) with Dr. Laurie Santos of Yale. They did an episode on burnout (Feb 21, 2022) and that was me before I FIRED. I think being back just brings back a lot of those feelings.
Some of it is constant stupid meetings (for which I'm being paid $150 an hour but I'd rather be doing anything else and not getting paid)
And creating stupid reports that people think they want or need and then they either are never used or are used for just navel gazing/recreational analytics (as I call it) Sometimes those reports drive just tons of stupid questions but then no real action.
And then there is the endless politics and bureaucracy of large companies.

I have two other clients that I've picked up that are small businesses (one at about $1M in net income and the other is a start up) and I find that work to be easier, more efficient and much more enjoyable because the business owners truly appreciate it. It's slightly less per hour and less hours per month but so much more enjoyable.
Also on two boards which is unpaid, but really enjoyable work.

I guess my point is just that there is a reason why when we finally leave we leave. And I don't think it's because we just don't want to work. I think for most people it really is the job. Or it's that you have something else you really want to do with your time. Or some combination of the two. Which means no matter what, when you leave, you should just leave. Be done. Don't go back. It's not better and you don't need the money. (or you can find money somewhere else)

ok. end rant.

[secondcor521]

I guess my point is just that there is a reason why when we finally leave we leave. And I don't think it's because we just don't want to work. I think for most people it really is the job. Or it's that you have something else you really want to do with your time. Or some combination of the two. Which means no matter what, when you leave, you should just leave. Be done. Don't go back. It's not better and you don't need the money. (or you can find money somewhere else)

ok. end rant.

Timely reminder, so thank you.

I've been FIREd about six years now and while I don't regret it and don't think I quit too early and I have enough money, I am starting to get a little bit of an itch for what I would call a third act (first act engineering, second act management).  What I know is that most people who go back have your experience - they like the work but dislike the job.  Most end up FIREing again in under a year.  So I'll probably either need to not scratch the itch, or find a situation where the work is much more important than the job.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

I guess my point is just that there is a reason why when we finally leave we leave. And I don't think it's because we just don't want to work. I think for most people it really is the job. Or it's that you have something else you really want to do with your time. Or some combination of the two. Which means no matter what, when you leave, you should just leave. Be done. Don't go back. It's not better and you don't need the money. (or you can find money somewhere else)

ok. end rant.

Timely reminder, so thank you.

I've been FIREd about six years now and while I don't regret it and don't think I quit too early and I have enough money, I am starting to get a little bit of an itch for what I would call a third act (first act engineering, second act management).  What I know is that most people who go back have your experience - they like the work but dislike the job.  Most end up FIREing again in under a year.  So I'll probably either need to not scratch the itch, or find a situation where the work is much more important than the job.

My couple anecdotes - my Dad was hired back as a consultant not long after he retired in his 50's.  The 'name your price' finally wore him down, but he absolutely hated it and didn't last long.

My DW has gone in to a new line of work as an elementary school teacher, after a 7 year hiatus, and absolutely loves it.  She has a BS in health science and worked in big pharma for about 10 years, but it wore her down seeing all the drugs people take and how unaffordable they are...  She has a natural ability to make education entertaining for kids and loves the interactions, but yeah, she makes almost no money.  Definitely doing it for the work and to fill in a gap now that the kids and preparing to leave the nest...   

So ultimately, when I decide to pull the ER plug, I'm doing it fully intending to leave my engineering career behind.  I'll always have the 'engineering mindset', but I won't be building offshore oil and gas platforms by myself in my garage...

[MaybeBabyMustache]

Super useful, @BeanCounter - thanks for the follow up. It's definitely the meetings & politics that wear me down. Less the work itself. And, absolutely stealing the "recreational analytics", because that is such an amazing & accurate keeper.

[SwordGuy]

Super useful, @BeanCounter - thanks for the follow up. It's definitely the meetings & politics that wear me down. Less the work itself. And, absolutely stealing the "recreational analytics", because that is such an amazing & accurate keeper.

When I wrote reports, I liked to store data about who ran them, how often, and when were they last run.   That way, if we had to replace that system we knew whether a report could just be tossed in the wastebin of history, or who to talk to about necessary changes.

[Taran Wanderer]

I was listening to the podcast "The Happiness Lab" (highly recommend) with Dr. Laurie Santos of Yale. They did an episode on burnout (Feb 21, 2022) and that was me before I FIRED. I think being back just brings back a lot of those feelings.
Some of it is constant stupid meetings (for which I'm being paid $150 an hour but I'd rather be doing anything else and not getting paid)
And creating stupid reports that people think they want or need and then they either are never used or are used for just navel gazing/recreational analytics (as I call it) Sometimes those reports drive just tons of stupid questions but then no real action.
And then there is the endless politics and bureaucracy of large companies.

This is so validating. Maybe I’m suffering from confirmation bias, but I’m running with it.

[Fru-Gal]

I left because of the endless Zoom meetings, the bureaucracy, the “recreational analytics” (so apt!), and a very bad boss who just got more and more difficult even as he tried to “coach” me while exhibiting no professional boundaries or time management skills. I’ll admit to a twinge of jealousy when I saw that huge compensation package mentioned here. Part of me thought that should’ve been me yet somehow I wasn’t able to play the game well enough. But the honest truth is that I have another great purpose in my life (passion project) so I did the corporate game and I won it and I left. But even without the passion project I am one of those people who just does so many different things. You could say I lack focus or you could say I just like a lot of different things. And now I have time to do them. The cautionary tales about going back to your company are useful… They have already approached me (albeit not with anything near a job offer or compensation commensurate with my 20 years of stellar results, just freelancing).

[MaybeBabyMustache]

I left because of the endless Zoom meetings, the bureaucracy, the “recreational analytics” (so apt!), and a very bad boss who just got more and more difficult even as he tried to “coach” me while exhibiting no professional boundaries or time management skills. I’ll admit to a twinge of jealousy when I saw that huge compensation package mentioned here. Part of me thought that should’ve been me yet somehow I wasn’t able to play the game well enough. But the honest truth is that I have another great purpose in my life (passion project) so I did the corporate game and I won it and I left. But even without the passion project I am one of those people who just does so many different things. You could say I lack focus or you could say I just like a lot of different things. And now I have time to do them. The cautionary tales about going back to your company are useful… They have already approached me (albeit not with anything near a job offer or compensation commensurate with my 20 years of stellar results, just freelancing).

Not sure if you're referring to my comp, but a few potentially helpful notes. I ended up in a career that I could have never expected, and each job has led me further down this path. Luckily, I do work in a group that is generally awesome & psychologically safe (very much not without other flaws that you'll find in a large company). I'd attribute the comp more to a very unique skill set, & then growth & leadership in a specific area, plus just general lack of talent in this area. I recruit often for folks to report to me & they are just incredibly hard to find. Of course, there's game playing as well, but a much smaller amount than you might expect in a role like this.

I also find the multitude of skills to be really appealing, so I think you are well positioned for whatever the future holds.

[BeanCounter]

Well I'm certainly glad I'm not the only one that feels this way! The thing I don't understand is WHY people continue to work in these positions. Sure I was well compensated. Sure I had a "cushy" job. But it was truly sole sucking.

I think they said something in that podcast about burnout that one of the symptoms is you feel your work is meaningless. That's where I was at. I would drive to my cushy office and think about every other job I'd rather do that that one. It was bad.
I also had the president of my area at the time who would frequently come to me with some hair on fire emergency "we need to look at the profitability of contract x,y,x" or "we've got to run claims analytics on these patients to see where we need to add programing to limit costs" etc. And it would always be some go back to work after dinner, don't tuck my kids in, stay up all night situation to get her the data to solve "big important problem of the week" and then later I'd figure out that they never used it. Never looked at my report. Had moved on to something else. I MISSED TIME WITH MY CHILDREN FOR THAT SHIT!!!!!!

I really wonder when these big companies will see that this is a problem? Because I don't think it was unique to my job. Or when will employees start to say enough?

So this morning I was on the phone with former employer now client and they ask me for this reporting on some program profitability for the last three years. Do you know how many times I've done that? Spun it this way or that for whatever is the latest question. So of course I had to take time out of my morning coffee and scroll to pull together this info, from the last three reports I've done this for. How many times can you answer the same question?
And that's why I posted. Because of the frustration this morning of answering the same question, maybe a slightly different way as I've done previously, and I'm pretty sure they won't listen this time either. Why? Because the answer still doesn't fit the corporate political agenda of the person asking it. I think that's really it in a nutshell.

[2sk22]

Just dropping in today to say that going back to work on a part time contract for my former employer was the WORST decision I’ve ever made. 8 more weeks. I want to find a reason to end it early. DH says to stick it out, end on a high note (again) and buy myself something nice as a reward.

Heed this warning guys. When your old employer comes back asking for just a little temporary help, run. Run far fast.

By a coincidence, I just got off a call from my old boss (with whom I'm still friendly) asking if I was free for a short assignment. I tactfully declined because after 18 months of retirement, I don't think I can return to any kind of directed work. The greatest thing about being retired is getting up every morning, and deciding which of my projects I want to work on for that day.

[Exflyboy]

Just dropping in today to say that going back to work on a part time contract for my former employer was the WORST decision I’ve ever made. 8 more weeks. I want to find a reason to end it early. DH says to stick it out, end on a high note (again) and buy myself something nice as a reward.

Heed this warning guys. When your old employer comes back asking for just a little temporary help, run. Run far fast.

By a coincidence, I just got off a call from my old boss (with whom I'm still friendly) asking if I was free for a short assignment. I tactfully declined because after 18 months of retirement, I don't think I can return to any kind of directed work. The greatest thing about being retired is getting up every morning, and deciding which of my projects I want to work on for that day.

Yup I'm feeling that pit in the stomach on a Sunday night too. I actually enjoy the work even!

[tooqk4u22]

Well I'm certainly glad I'm not the only one that feels this way! The thing I don't understand is WHY people continue to work in these positions. Sure I was well compensated. Sure I had a "cushy" job. But it was truly sole sucking.

I think they said something in that podcast about burnout that one of the symptoms is you feel your work is meaningless. That's where I was at. I would drive to my cushy office and think about every other job I'd rather do that that one. It was bad.
I also had the president of my area at the time who would frequently come to me with some hair on fire emergency "we need to look at the profitability of contract x,y,x" or "we've got to run claims analytics on these patients to see where we need to add programing to limit costs" etc. And it would always be some go back to work after dinner, don't tuck my kids in, stay up all night situation to get her the data to solve "big important problem of the week" and then later I'd figure out that they never used it. Never looked at my report. Had moved on to something else. I MISSED TIME WITH MY CHILDREN FOR THAT SHIT!!!!!!

I really wonder when these big companies will see that this is a problem? Because I don't think it was unique to my job. Or when will employees start to say enough?

So this morning I was on the phone with former employer now client and they ask me for this reporting on some program profitability for the last three years. Do you know how many times I've done that? Spun it this way or that for whatever is the latest question. So of course I had to take time out of my morning coffee and scroll to pull together this info, from the last three reports I've done this for. How many times can you answer the same question?
And that's why I posted. Because of the frustration this morning of answering the same question, maybe a slightly different way as I've done previously, and I'm pretty sure they won't listen this time either. Why? Because the answer still doesn't fit the corporate political agenda of the person asking it. I think that's really it in a nutshell.

Yup.   I fired bc of burnout but that was the symptom and not the cause.   I used to say all that....make a lot of money, cushy office, etc and would say there are 95%+ that would kill for the job (ignoring all that it took to get there of course) but yeah endless meetings (pre covid as I fire in 2019), endless reports, endless bs and micromanaging, etc and I was in a client facing revenue roll...can't imagine being in an expense side.   

I would have managers ask for models that would include tons of information not relevant to the decision being made....but ok, I will give them 3 scenarios  (base, sensitized, and best) input assumptions matter but for simplicity as an example I would run it at 7, 10 and 13.....and you know what I  would get asked...."could you run it at 7.1, 10.1, and 12.9?" (Which makes no material change whatsoever).   I mean I would get it if the ask was for 5, 10, and 15, well not really bc I knee my shit, buy after I would give the update models I would get asked how about at 6.9, 9.9 and 13.1?   WTF are you kidding me.....

Multiply that over a thousand interactions a week from all levels (policy and compliance hacks were the worst...no value add so all they had was justifying their existence).   

It got to the point where I probably spent a out 10% of my time (being generous) on what actual role was and the only part I enjoyed and that's when I knew.   It was always between 60/40 and 40/60 which is normal but 10/90 nope.

I digress, but corporate America is based on a whole lot of people that need to justify their existence, which is why when economy slides they can do mass layoffs and still hit same revenue numbers and even make more income.   

I have been asked to go back or with competitors but almost three years alter an dthe thought still makes me sick...burnout to PTSD like.   I am good.....helps to be in this club.

[Fomerly known as something]

I’ve been missing, being busy, passing CompTia A+ for work and on vacation. 

Well, so after living in the Bay Area for 4 months, I decided I could live here for a while, and I ran the numbers so it wouldn’t change my ability to FIRE when I’m eligible for my pension in July of 2025.  So like Dicey, I just got an offer accepted but on a 2 bedroom condo.  But in a kind of weird note, no other offers.  So I had an asking price of $680,000, no concessions offer accepted.  Place is huge for a 2 bedroom in the area, over 1,000 square feet with a huge balcony, 2 parking spots and 3 additional storage spots. 

 It was fun when the nice Rocket Mortgage person asked my ballpark net worth to be able to say $2.3 million, there weren’t anymore questions after that.  It’s 35 minutes to my current office and likely 45-60 to when we move to the East Bay.  (Which maybe summer of 2023 but we don’t know what construction snags we will meet, also I’ll be on the road for much of 2024 so it shouldn’t be a make or break).

[LightTripper]

Just as a juxtaposition to posters above not regretting OMY or finding it offered them good opportunities they enjoyed... I have done a couple of OMYs and they have ... just been OMY.  I'm not sure I regret them exactly (I've reduced my hours and spent more time with my kids, and Covid would have restricted a lot of the other things I could have done anyway), but neither have they given me new insights or a renewed love of my job or particularly exciting opportunities or anything. 

I guess I've been glad to do the job NOT in a state of overwhelming burnout, as it's made clear to me that it's not just the burn out - I have actually fallen out of love with the underlying work too.  There are still parts I enjoy, get satisfaction from and will miss, for sure - and many of the people are clever and interesting and nice to work with.  But there are clever, interesting and nice people out of work too - and I can spend time with them without paying the price of having to spend bits of my holiday trying to do a conference call from the back of the beach while watching my partner have fun with the kids, or spending a nice dinner out worrying about some client issue that I have to deal with in the morning.

I'm under no illusions: it's an immensely privileged position to be in. The job is not terrible or evil and pays crazy amounts (I actually made my biggest pay check ever last year despite only working 3 days a week on average).  But on the other hand there are other ways to use your privilege for good than dying on a massive heap of money and leaving it to good causes.

So I'm planning to wind down over the course of this year and stop by year end.

I have a few disparate ideas of how to spend my time post-FIRE.  I don't rule out returning to some kind of work (probably in the public sector if I think I can find a way to add value without having to do battle with insane amounts of politics and bureaucracy) - or volunteering in relation to one of my particular interests.  To begin with, I just want a break to spend time with family and get on top of the house.  But long term, I am just trying to have confidence that I will find something valuable to do with my time, without worrying too much about what it is.  Worst comes to worst, if I changed my mind in the next 2-3 years I could almost certainly walk back into the job I'm doing now, before my contacts and experience completely expire.  But I really hope and expect not to be doing that.

[MaybeBabyMustache]

I’ve been missing, being busy, passing CompTia A+ for work and on vacation. 

Well, so after living in the Bay Area for 4 months, I decided I could live here for a while, and I ran the numbers so it wouldn’t change my ability to FIRE when I’m eligible for my pension in July of 2025.  So like Dicey, I just got an offer accepted but on a 2 bedroom condo.  But in a kind of weird note, no other offers.  So I had an asking price of $680,000, no concessions offer accepted.  Place is huge for a 2 bedroom in the area, over 1,000 square feet with a huge balcony, 2 parking spots and 3 additional storage spots. 

 It was fun when the nice Rocket Mortgage person asked my ballpark net worth to be able to say $2.3 million, there weren’t anymore questions after that.  It’s 35 minutes to my current office and likely 45-60 to when we move to the East Bay.  (Which maybe summer of 2023 but we don’t know what construction snags we will meet, also I’ll be on the road for much of 2024 so it shouldn’t be a make or break).

Welcome to the Bay Area! Super impressed you found affordable housing, and were the only offer. That's awesome.

[Bateaux]

Just as a juxtaposition to posters above not regretting OMY or finding it offered them good opportunities they enjoyed... I have done a couple of OMYs and they have ... just been OMY.  I'm not sure I regret them exactly (I've reduced my hours and spent more time with my kids, and Covid would have restricted a lot of the other things I could have done anyway), but neither have they given me new insights or a renewed love of my job or particularly exciting opportunities or anything. 

I guess I've been glad to do the job NOT in a state of overwhelming burnout, as it's made clear to me that it's not just the burn out - I have actually fallen out of love with the underlying work too.  There are still parts I enjoy, get satisfaction from and will miss, for sure - and many of the people are clever and interesting and nice to work with.  But there are clever, interesting and nice people out of work too - and I can spend time with them without paying the price of having to spend bits of my holiday trying to do a conference call from the back of the beach while watching my partner have fun with the kids, or spending a nice dinner out worrying about some client issue that I have to deal with in the morning.

I'm under no illusions: it's an immensely privileged position to be in. The job is not terrible or evil and pays crazy amounts (I actually made my biggest pay check ever last year despite only working 3 days a week on average).  But on the other hand there are other ways to use your privilege for good than dying on a massive heap of money and leaving it to good causes.

So I'm planning to wind down over the course of this year and stop by year end.

I have a few disparate ideas of how to spend my time post-FIRE.  I don't rule out returning to some kind of work (probably in the public sector if I think I can find a way to add value without having to do battle with insane amounts of politics and bureaucracy) - or volunteering in relation to one of my particular interests.  To begin with, I just want a break to spend time with family and get on top of the house.  But long term, I am just trying to have confidence that I will find something valuable to do with my time, without worrying too much about what it is.  Worst comes to worst, if I changed my mind in the next 2-3 years I could almost certainly walk back into the job I'm doing now, before my contacts and experience completely expire.  But I really hope and expect not to be doing that.

The OMY decision is a tough one.  I was hopeful of 2020 being the year.  Turns out 2020 would have been a terrible year for us to leave.  2021 was mostly a 2020 repeat and 2023 became the target year.  Everything that has happened was pretty much predicted.  Even the Ukrainian war for the most part.  Winter set in during 2020 and we're just seeing some signs of Spring.  I'm thinking a few late frosts will destroy a few early blooms yet.  We're vastly more prepared now than in 2020.  It's so much more than financial status at play.  Although our finances have improved dramatically as well.  So 3 more years was the time we added.  1077 days actually.  These were the very best days to extend our work life.  Almost everything I wanted to retire for was shut down.  Our overbooked flight from Chicago to back home in New Orleans yesterday was proof things are returning.  It was still a fully loaded airplane,but we all had to wear masks.  I had not flown anywhere for two years.  Ironically the flight to Chicago was to attend memorial services for a friend lost to COVID complications. 
Good times are coming back.  Paying in a few more dues will make the prize sweeter.

[Fru-Gal]

Not sure if you're referring to my comp, but a few potentially helpful notes. I ended up in a career that I could have never expected, and each job has led me further down this path. Luckily, I do work in a group that is generally awesome & psychologically safe (very much not without other flaws that you'll find in a large company). I'd attribute the comp more to a very unique skill set, & then growth & leadership in a specific area, plus just general lack of talent in this area. I recruit often for folks to report to me & they are just incredibly hard to find. Of course, there's game playing as well, but a much smaller amount than you might expect in a role like this.

I also find the multitude of skills to be really appealing, so I think you are well positioned for whatever the future holds.

Yes, @MaybeBabyMustache you were the one, was too lazy to look up your name. I have a similar story to yours, hence the feeling of “that could’ve been me”. In my case my final employer was a former client of the small company I ran in a field that became increasingly lucrative. A lot of people were surprised when I took a job with them because they assumed I was making so much. But I was not able to imagine how I could’ve had anything near the six-figure cash flow that I had as an employed person. Plus of course the benefits!

[marty998]

@marty998 has entered the chat.

G'day everyone. Didn't think I'd ever get here this quickly. On we go!

[Dicey]

@marty998 has entered the chat.

G'day everyone. Didn't think I'd ever get here this quickly. On we go!

Welcome!

[BeanCounter]

Good times are coming back. Paying in a few more dues will make the prize sweeter.

Unless you OMY until you're either dead or incapacitated. It's a slippery slope you know.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

@marty998 has entered the chat.

G'day everyone. Didn't think I'd ever get here this quickly. On we go!

Never a good sign when someone @'s themselves...  LOL.  Congrats!

[couponvan]

@marty998 has entered the chat.

G'day everyone. Didn't think I'd ever get here this quickly. On we go!

Welcome!

[Much Fishing to Do]

Was updating my SS records yesterday to get a picture of what my future payments will be as it had been a number of years since I last did that and realized that as of this month my net working income (W-2 earnings plus former solo business profits) will hit $5M.  When markets hit new highs will be about the time my N.W. will also hit $5M, as I'm a few percent short right now.  I do like round numbers.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Was updating my SS records yesterday to get a picture of what my future payments will be as it had been a number of years since I last did that and realized that as of this month my net working income (W-2 earnings plus former solo business profits) will hit $5M.  When markets hit new highs will be about the time my N.W. will also hit $5M, as I'm a few percent short right now.  I do like round numbers.

For what it's worth, $5M was when I finally declared FatFI and really stopped paying attention.  It is indeed a nice round number, but also gave me more reason to stop paying attention.  First off, it wasn't unusual for NW to go up or down $50k in a day, which is like watching a fancy car be added or substracted daily!  It also provides for $200k/year via the 4% Rule, or $100k/year at 2%.  I'll be lucky to spend $100k/year (no mortgage or debt anymore), but 2% withdrawal means I'll die with more money than I have today.  Which brought me to my final realization - my net worth will probably double and then double again before I pass away.  That easily puts me in the 8 figure club and then some...

Life hasn't changed much since I worked through all of these philosophical realizations, other than me not updating net worth very often anymore.  And I'm also less likely to face punch people :)

[marcus_aurelius]

We're officially members of the "..and beyond" club. I looked at our portfolio after a few months, and our NW is a little over $6M! Big rocks are: paid off house of $2.8M, retirement accounts of $1.6M, post-tax stocks of $1.6M, and 529 funds for the kids of ~$200K (to which we need to add another $150K in the next 2-4 years). Can’t believe how our stash has grown over the last 5 years. Paying off the house last year has allowed our savings rate to skyrocket.

Have a good weekend everyone!

[Taran Wanderer]

Some interesting milestones today. NW hit $3.2 million. Annual bonuses hit the savings account. After a few too many years at my current job, my counter-offer on a new opportunity was verbally accepted, and I’m ready for something new. DW can support us with her income and medical, but I’m not ready to FIRE, so off to a new opportunity with some industry colleagues who I have known for a long time. Just have to finish up our family vacation and give notice when I get back.

I’ve been ready to leave the job for 2-3 years, but for various reasons involving location and family, it is something I haven’t been ready to do, and then Covid and WFH made it easy to stick around a couple more years. More updates as the next few weeks play out. Fortunately they’ll be in this thread and not in the FU Money thread. I thought I might be sharing there sooner or later!

[Much Fishing to Do]

paid off house of $2.8M

Wowzer, that's hard to comprehend.  I don't think there's a $2.8M house in my county.

[SwordGuy]

paid off house of $2.8M

Wowzer, that's hard to comprehend.  I don't think there's a $2.8M house in my county.

I'm right there with you.   The only way I'll live in a $2.8M house is if inflation really skyrockets the value of the one I bought for one hell of a lot less -- or I live a whole lot longer than expected.

[marty998]

Thanks guys

@marty998 has entered the chat.

G'day everyone. Didn't think I'd ever get here this quickly. On we go!

Never a good sign when someone @'s themselves...  LOL.  Congrats!

Oh Jesus I can't believe I did that haha. Having never been much on it, I've been managing an instagram page or two lately for a community group I'm involved in. Excessive use of the "@" button to tag people is encouraged, so maybe that's where it is coming from ha.

[Taran Wanderer]

I gave notice today. We’ll see what happens tomorrow. I’m curious to see the reaction from senior leadership. While I’ve given hints, I don’t think they really expected me to walk away. I don’t think they understand that work is optional at this point, and I opt not to work there any longer. More tomorrow.

[2sk22]

I gave notice today. We’ll see what happens tomorrow. I’m curious to see the reaction from senior leadership. While I’ve given hints, I don’t think they really expected me to walk away. I don’t think they understand that work is optional at this point, and I opt not to work there any longer. More tomorrow.

Good luck - let us know how it goes! Will be following with interest :-)

[Dicey]

I gave notice today. We’ll see what happens tomorrow. I’m curious to see the reaction from senior leadership. While I’ve given hints, I don’t think they really expected me to walk away. I don’t think they understand that work is optional at this point, and I opt not to work there any longer. More tomorrow.

Good luck - let us know how it goes! Will be following with interest :-)

+1!

[BeanCounter]

I gave notice today. We’ll see what happens tomorrow. I’m curious to see the reaction from senior leadership. While I’ve given hints, I don’t think they really expected me to walk away. I don’t think they understand that work is optional at this point, and I opt not to work there any longer. More tomorrow.

Congrats! For me the weeks between giving notice and my last day were rough. Lots of anxiety and waking up in the middle of the night with this fear that I had done an awful, stupid thing. And having to deal with people's opinions of what I was doing. Some being supportive, some asking too many questions and thinking I was crazy, some being envious. And then dealing with transitioning my work. Just lots of SHIT to deal with in those days leading up to "laptop turn in".
Then the first few months after turning in my laptop were days of kind of wandering, feeling like I should be doing something but not sure what. And feeling like I was forgetting something. I went running a lot. And took a lot of naps. Lots of dealing with how much of my identity was actually wrapped into my job title.
Then it started to get better. Eight months into RE I came back as a contractor part time and it has done nothing but prove that FIREing was the right thing.

I think all of that is normal. Just sharing in case it helps you. Just remember one thing- everyone that says "it will be awesome" is right.

[Exflyboy]

Spot on @BeanCounter I used to wake up at 3am and had t get up and go over the numbers again because I was convinced I had missed something in the calculations! Because you are clearly thinking much more clearly in a dream at 3am!

I think it was about 9 months before it felt normal.

Now being back at work (short term contract) its clear retirement is a very pleasant state to be in..:)

[Bateaux]

Holy shit 2022 is a bitch.  Work has been my refuge in this crazy year.  Recently helped our son buy a used car.  Dave Ramsey followers think (Dave Car) 2007 Toyota Camry with 168K miles.  It's a one owner friend's car, I was just under the car inspecting it.  Looked great and drove great.  after less than a week of ownership the transmission blows.  Fuck!
My wife, myself and his girlfriend have been getting him back and forth to work for weeks.  The fuel and time costs are barely worth his shitty salary.   We went looking for more used cars yesterday.  Junk.  Expensive junk is all that's out there.  Finally decided to end the shit.  We went to the Kia dealership and bought the only economy car they had new on the lot.  It  had just dropped in from the factory.  Most of the cars on the truck were already presold.  He'll be paying $500 a month for 60 months for the right to drive and that's just the loan.  Mustacian?  Hell no.  He'll be working just be able to drive to work.  I told him he needs a higher paying job.  He's in a highly technical job that pays shit, but has gotten comfortable in the three years he's worked there.  Anyway, my wife and I have several vacations coming up and had to get this situation fixed before then.  This car is 1% of our wealth.  Basically a pimple on our ass.  Lance the puss and move on.

Tornadoes.  Y'all may have heard of the tornados in New Orleans recently.  My wife and I landed in New Orleans on a flight from Chicago an hour before that tornado touched down.  In an attempt to improve our freaking karma I volunteered three days this week with Team Rubicon.  A disaster response veterans based organization.  I must say I love these people.  Dammit!  Why haven't I been doing this.  I've definitely found my retirement civic organization.  If you haven't been military, police or firefighter it may seem odd at first.  You'll adapt quickly even if you aren't, the organization is open to all people.  These are some of the best folks I've ever been around.  We helped a lot of people clean up the mess from the tornados.  These same people have recently rebuilt from floods and hurricanes.   There are also regional operations going on in Texas, Mississippi, Arkansas and Alabama.  There have been operations in every US state and many countries across the globe.  There is a medical mission right now in Poland helping war refugee's from Ukraine.  Hopefully through Team Rubicon, I can help reduce the suck in others people's lives.
It's all good.  It would be boring as Hell without constant chaos.

[Allie]

We also landed in the NOLA airport an hour before the tornados started (although not from Chicago).  I’ll bet we passed each other in the baggage area.  I’m glad you and your wife arrived safely and avoided the storms.  Team rubicon sounds like a wonderful org.