Author Topic: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!  (Read 1246760 times)

itchyfeet

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7000 on: July 31, 2023, 07:03:54 AM »
No point hiding from death. Iíd go as far as to say that if you donít plan for death you are not properly planning for living either.

However, no matter how much I try, my DW refuses to discuss the fact that Iíll likely die rather young and she will need to forge on without me. I just wish she would get her head around that so the decisions we take now leave her wherever she wants to be after Iím gone.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2023, 04:06:04 PM by itchyfeet »

Nords

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7001 on: July 31, 2023, 09:14:00 AM »
I flew Space A once from Dover to Ramstein or Stuttgart, now I canít remember, for annual leave a long, long time ago.  I remember plenty of retirees hanging out at the terminal. There was this couple just waiting for an interesting destination to get on and I was kinda blown away of how cool of an adventure it would to just go wherever the winds of availability will take you.

I remember the chicken dinner on that C-5 flight was the best airplane food I ever had.
We realized the other day that, between active duty and retirement, weíve been flying Space A for nearly 40 years.  But retirement is much better because of the flexibility, and in Europe itís easy to work with the Schengen system.  90 days is more than enough for us anyway-- weíd prefer to do about 60 days of slow travel and then chase summer back to Oahu.

Weíve flown from Dover to Spangdahlem and (on a separate trip) out of Ramstein to BWI in Baltimore.  And just in case, we pack enough of our own food in case the flight is delayed or the crew went cheap on their calories.

Weíre currently signed up at our main Oahu passenger terminal (Hickam AFB), and on Labor Day weekend (after the active-duty families are back in school) weíre going to start showing up for roll calls to... wherever is on the mission schedule.  Weíll go to Japan or Korea and maybe Singapore (and eventually commercial to Bangkok)  or across the Mainland to Germany or (if weíre very lucky) to Sydney or Alice Springs (Australia).

Iím keenly aware that we may only have another 20 years of our slow-travel mobility left, and I donít want to leave behind any regrets.

One other reason for me to take the last bonus check, besides my fear on a housing correction, is that I have modelled everything assuming a 40 year retirement, which will take me to 91 and DW to 85. There is a reasonable chance one of us might still be in decent shape by then. If we invest $100K AUD now and leave it grow, and assuming it doubles every 10 years in real terms, it will be worth $1.6M (in todays $'AUD) in 40 years time. That $1.6M might be very helpful if DW lives to 100+. And who knows what other unexpected events could occur over the next 50 years.
-  That's what I don't like about this retirement thing.  You are planning for death.  It's really kind of morbid.  I wonder if actuaries become depressed alcoholics.

No point hiding from death. Iíd go as far as to say that if you donít plan for death you are not properly planning for living either.

However, no matter how much I try my DW refers to discuss the fact that Iíll likely die rather young and she will need to forge on without me. I just wish she would get her head around that so the decisions we take now leave her wherever she wants to be after Iím gone.
I donít know about actuaries.  If they feel challenged & fulfilled by doing math then they might never have a reason to stop working. 

I see the later stages of financial independence as the same type of Swedish death cleaning as writing a will and letting your family know what to do with your carcass after youíre finished with it.  My spouse seems eerily confident that Iím going to die before her, so Iíd rather make the plans with her rather than letting her make the plans for me. 

More importantly, a lot of those financial chores are the same ones to plan for our disability.  Iíve had my father dump his lack of planning on me, and I had to get a conservatorís appointment and spend over six years of handling his finances and the care facility.  Our daughterís experienced plenty of this lack of planning from her spouseís side of the family, and oh the stories.  My spouseís parents (whose plan was ďWeíre fine, honeyĒ) just realized last week (after her mother had a fall) that they can no longer live independently.  Today theyíre moving into assisted living under stress and physical therapy instead of on their own planning timeline. 

Bird In Hand

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7002 on: July 31, 2023, 11:28:58 AM »
Jan/21: As of close of the markets yesterday, we joined this race for the first time with an aggregate balance of $2.005M across all our savings/retirement/investment accounts.  TNW including home equity is somewhere a little north of $2.4M.

Jun/21: LNW was flirting with $2.2M for what seemed like months.  We finally crossed that threshold sometime in the past couple weeks and have stayed there since.  With similar market performance for the rest of the year we could be knocking on the door of $2.5M by end of year, or about $3M TNW.   100k/year @ 4% SWR.  That's nuts.

Aug/21: We crossed $2.3M today.  I don't know why it seemed like such a long time to go from 2.2 to 2.3.  It was only two months.

Nov/21: The recent market run-up brought us to just over $2.4M invested as of COB Thurs.  This last $100k took almost 3 months (cue world's smallest violin).  Closing out the year at $2.5M may be a stretch, but is certainty feasible.

Jan/22: I didn't pay attention to the markets at all for the past couple months (practice for FIRE?).  We ended the year at about $2.425M invested.  I was hoping for $2.5M, but going up $425k in 2021 isn't worth complaining about.

Jul/23: $2.52M invested.  A little discouraging that we're < 10% above where we were two years ago, and essentially all of that is due to savings over that time.  Accounting for inflation, it's more like a 0% net balance increase after savings, and maybe a -10% return considering inflation.  It's not really surprising considering how rough 2022 was.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7003 on: August 01, 2023, 02:44:56 PM »
@Nords.

In your list itís only the last two points that Iím only semi interested in.  How much is it vs the other stuff.

As for Cargo.  I only fly when itís a special mission (Iím not military, you just move us).  But Iím less inclined to put myself in a position where I do fly it.  Especially C17.  The cargo hold isnít shielded.  Weíve had a cancer cluster in our speciality teams that fly on them a lot.

Nords

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7004 on: August 01, 2023, 06:34:18 PM »
@Nords.

In your list itís only the last two points that Iím only semi interested in.  How much is it vs the other stuff.
I'm not sure which list/post you're referring to, but if it's the one that ends:
- concierge medicine (like detailed annual physicals or joint replacements), and
- lifestyle. 
then absolutely.  And maybe for my version of concierge medicine I'm only looking at a detailed physical or scan (for example, calcium risks in coronary disease) or a joint replacement (worn-out knee cartilage).

As for Cargo.  I only fly when itís a special mission (Iím not military, you just move us).  But Iím less inclined to put myself in a position where I do fly it.  Especially C17.  The cargo hold isnít shielded.  Weíve had a cancer cluster in our speciality teams that fly on them a lot.
That's good to know.  I've heard from a lot of pilots (sitting right behind the radome) but not so much from aircrew.

If you have more (public) info or links with your specialty teams I'd like to learn more.  I've always wondered what commercial aircrew (flight attendants) see for radiation exposure during their routine flights at 30K-40K feet, but it's not as available as the info for military pilots or submariners.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7005 on: August 01, 2023, 08:21:28 PM »
@Nords.

In your list itís only the last two points that Iím only semi interested in.  How much is it vs the other stuff.
I'm not sure which list/post you're referring to, but if it's the one that ends:
- concierge medicine (like detailed annual physicals or joint replacements), and
- lifestyle. 
then absolutely.  And maybe for my version of concierge medicine I'm only looking at a detailed physical or scan (for example, calcium risks in coronary disease) or a joint replacement (worn-out knee cartilage).

As for Cargo.  I only fly when itís a special mission (Iím not military, you just move us).  But Iím less inclined to put myself in a position where I do fly it.  Especially C17.  The cargo hold isnít shielded.  Weíve had a cancer cluster in our speciality teams that fly on them a lot.
That's good to know.  I've heard from a lot of pilots (sitting right behind the radome) but not so much from aircrew.

If you have more (public) info or links with your specialty teams I'd like to learn more.  I've always wondered what commercial aircrew (flight attendants) see for radiation exposure during their routine flights at 30K-40K feet, but it's not as available as the info for military pilots or submariners.

Iíve been told the AF flight crews are monitored for exposure, our people are not.  Unfortunately my work is small and specialized civilians (there are less than 3,500 of us total), that the Air Force flys around and our specialty teams that fly lots are even smaller so there isnít any public info on them.  For example, Iím likely fine since I only fly Cargo if Iím on an international trip, and that maybe happens once a year for me.  But some of the people I work with can be on multiple plane a week for much of the year.

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7006 on: August 02, 2023, 06:34:51 PM »
Another guy, there are only four of us, beat me to it.  He quit today.  That leaves three and a partially trained replacement.  He was supposed to be my replacement. Since getting back from my backpacking trip, I've worked a 72 hour, a 60 hour and now this will be an 84 hour week!  I've got vacation next week at the Florida house.  Friends are coming up from Miami.  Told the boss I need my week off.  They claim to have a plan to cover it.  They are trying to shame me into staying longer.  I really want to transfer more knowledge before I leave, but the company (multinational chemical conglomerate) didn't act.  It's not my fault you dragged ass and didn't act.
Wife wants to know how we get paid when we quit.  I told her, you've already done the tough part. I do have a pension that will probably pay half the expenses.  Says she's working till the end of 23 and may do some remote stuff.
Monday night I'll have a cocktail in my Florida pool.  Not sure I'll return for the last two weeks.  The Appalachian Trail is calling for me in New England right now.

ATtiny85

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7007 on: August 03, 2023, 06:09:47 AM »
No way you should be working longer hours in your position. You know better than to let the companyís problem become your problem.

You get paid overtime?

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7008 on: August 03, 2023, 07:38:51 AM »
Honestly Bateuax, quitting at the height of being screwed over would be a gift - no regrets!  Instead of having the AT just call to you, answer that call man!

pecunia

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7009 on: August 03, 2023, 07:48:00 AM »
Honestly Bateuax, quitting at the height of being screwed over would be a gift - no regrets!  Instead of having the AT just call to you, answer that call man!

Years ago I was quitting a job and discussed it with an older co-worker.  I had some guilt / misgiving feelings.  He told me to just watch the news.  Do these financial guys feel any guilt when they close a factory?  I guess there are a lot of people getting laid off in Silicon Valley these days.  There's probably little guilt from the billionaires that run these places.  About the time I quit there was a guy named Chainsaw Al Dunlap in the news.  He was one of those that shuttered profitable US factories and moved the operations to China.  I moved on from that job with little to no remorse.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7010 on: August 03, 2023, 07:59:41 AM »
My current agency is short staffed.  It will still be short staffed when I retire in 2025.  They will need expierenced people for many things between 2025-2028 and beyond.  I will have no gilt as my agency will have had me for 25 years, theyíve been given enough.  Itís not my fault that they ignored the frog being boiled making my job harder for 10-15 years causing todays current ďcrisisĒ

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7011 on: August 03, 2023, 12:24:32 PM »
No way you should be working longer hours in your position. You know better than to let the companyís problem become your problem.

You get paid overtime?

I'm being paid well on overtime.  My allegiance is no longer to the company,  its to the tnew people coming in.  Had things been handed properly they wouldn't have to struggle.  I told them in March I was leaving, but that didn't mean I'd be staying till 2024.

Just ranting a bit. 

Appalachian Trail in September/October.

Vegas trip with wife in November

Florida Trail from Key West either hiking or biking starting in December

afulldeck

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7012 on: August 03, 2023, 12:26:56 PM »
Never, never, worry about walking way from work. Your just a drop of water in the work pond. :-)

Car Jack

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7013 on: August 03, 2023, 06:08:50 PM »
So many employers want really long notice when we decide to leave.  One job, I liked my boss a lot.  He had been a peer at a previous engineering job.  I gave them a 7 week notice.  They started looking for someone a week before I left and got someone 3 days before I left.  They were twiddling their thumbs for 6 weeks.

My very last job before retiring a month ago, I gave my boss like 6 months notice.  They did nothing with that beyond panicking that they'll never find someone with my specific specialty.  Well, he'll be fine....he retired 2 weeks before I left.

Nords

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7014 on: August 03, 2023, 06:38:27 PM »
Well, you piqued my interest, @Nords. I hopped over, expecting there would be some barrier to entry, but the $599 annual fee stopped me cold. Do they ever offer Black Friday deals?

You must have been reading John's mind, @Dicey.  Here's some quotes from his 3 August 2023 post on ESIMoney .com:

Quote
I will have one more sale this year (Black Friday) if you want to get in.

Or, if you don't want to pay for a membership:

Quote
I would really love to make it to 400 millionaire interviews. I have 375 sent in and ready to publish, so I just need 25 more! I actually have more than that who have asked for the instructions to submit theirs but they have not sent in their interviews yet. Just remember that if you do an interview and agree to some minimal participation guidelines then you get a free membership into MMM for your contribution. If interested in a millionaire interview (or a retirement interview for that matter), send me an email!

ATtiny85

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7015 on: August 03, 2023, 07:45:31 PM »
So many employers want really long notice when we decide to leave.  One job, I liked my boss a lot.  He had been a peer at a previous engineering job.  I gave them a 7 week notice.  They started looking for someone a week before I left and got someone 3 days before I left.  They were twiddling their thumbs for 6 weeks.

Ö

This is my experience as well. Same for moving jobs inside a company. I have never experienced any real transition effort. Sometimes HR gets in the way of course, no backfilling until spot is empty, and so on, but normally itís typical lack of leadership.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7016 on: August 03, 2023, 10:18:39 PM »
Best thing about being in this club.  I was looking at cross country airfare to visit my parents over Labor Day.  I almost didnít book it because of the price (about $1,000 for a flight combo I could live with) but then I remembered I could afford it amid I wanted to see them.

arcturus

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7017 on: August 05, 2023, 06:35:23 AM »
Jan/21: As of close of the markets yesterday, we joined this race for the first time with an aggregate balance of $2.005M across all our savings/retirement/investment accounts.  TNW including home equity is somewhere a little north of $2.4M.

Jun/21: LNW was flirting with $2.2M for what seemed like months.  We finally crossed that threshold sometime in the past couple weeks and have stayed there since.  With similar market performance for the rest of the year we could be knocking on the door of $2.5M by end of year, or about $3M TNW.   100k/year @ 4% SWR.  That's nuts.

Aug/21: We crossed $2.3M today.  I don't know why it seemed like such a long time to go from 2.2 to 2.3.  It was only two months.

Nov/21: The recent market run-up brought us to just over $2.4M invested as of COB Thurs.  This last $100k took almost 3 months (cue world's smallest violin).  Closing out the year at $2.5M may be a stretch, but is certainty feasible.

Jan/22: I didn't pay attention to the markets at all for the past couple months (practice for FIRE?).  We ended the year at about $2.425M invested.  I was hoping for $2.5M, but going up $425k in 2021 isn't worth complaining about.

Jul/23: $2.52M invested.  A little discouraging that we're < 10% above where we were two years ago, and essentially all of that is due to savings over that time.  Accounting for inflation, it's more like a 0% net balance increase after savings, and maybe a -10% return considering inflation.  It's not really surprising considering how rough 2022 was.

I hear you on this one -- you're tracking pretty close to me, as I just did the math and from 6/30/21 to 6/30/23 I am up about 12-13% and, like you, I could probably account for the vast majority of this with my contributions.  July was fun, though!  Let's both hang in there and count on the next 2 years being better!

Bird In Hand

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7018 on: August 05, 2023, 07:46:08 AM »
Best thing about being in this club.  I was looking at cross country airfare to visit my parents over Labor Day.  I almost didnít book it because of the price (about $1,000 for a flight combo I could live with) but then I remembered I could afford it amid I wanted to see them.

Right on.  At the very lowest level of this club, a 0.06% (six one hundredths of 1%) swing in the SP500 amounts to a $1,000 change in your portfolio, assuming a 75% equity allocation.  Enjoy your visit with your parents!

Bird In Hand

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7019 on: August 05, 2023, 08:36:33 AM »
Jul/23: $2.52M invested.  A little discouraging that we're < 10% above where we were two years ago, and essentially all of that is due to savings over that time.  Accounting for inflation, it's more like a 0% net balance increase after savings, and maybe a -10% return considering inflation.  It's not really surprising considering how rough 2022 was.

I hear you on this one -- you're tracking pretty close to me, as I just did the math and from 6/30/21 to 6/30/23 I am up about 12-13% and, like you, I could probably account for the vast majority of this with my contributions.  July was fun, though!  Let's both hang in there and count on the next 2 years being better!

If the next 2 years are average/10% type of years, you might find me over in the Post FIRE section.  How about you?

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7020 on: August 05, 2023, 08:47:22 AM »
Best thing about being in this club.  I was looking at cross country airfare to visit my parents over Labor Day.  I almost didnít book it because of the price (about $1,000 for a flight combo I could live with) but then I remembered I could afford it amid I wanted to see them.

Right on.  At the very lowest level of this club, a 0.06% (six one hundredths of 1%) swing in the SP500 amounts to a $1,000 change in your portfolio, assuming a 75% equity allocation.  Enjoy your visit with your parents!

This is one of the special and perplexing things about being in this cohort.  Most of the sustained progress comes from market returns, which aren't in our control.  Although it feels empowering to manage the spending side of the equation (and that was a big part of the early journey), many of us could spend much more than we do.

The philosophical question is, what the difference is between someone with $2.5M NW spending $100k/yr and someone with $5M (or $10M) spending that same amount?  To anyone other than the inheritors, these people are living the same life.  This is probably why we are getting so many messages about trying to increase the spend once you are below, say, 3% SWR...
« Last Edit: August 05, 2023, 08:49:03 AM by EscapeVelocity2020 »

2sk22

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7021 on: August 05, 2023, 04:10:16 PM »
The philosophical question is, what the difference is between someone with $2.5M NW spending $100k/yr and someone with $5M (or $10M) spending that same amount?  To anyone other than the inheritors, these people are living the same life.  This is probably why we are getting so many messages about trying to increase the spend once you are below, say, 3% SWR...

I'm always on the lookout for things that will improve my life in some noticeable way while trying not clutter up the house with random stuff but its not easy. What I've discovered in two and half years of retirement is that most of the things I really enjoy don't cost much money. For example, recently I spent an enjoyable month figuring out how to program a $25 controller chip. Our net worth went up by $150k in that time.

The one unambiguously expensive thing I do enjoy is luxury travel but there are limits. I'm discovering that there is only so much travel I can take at a time. After a lot of trips earlier this year, right now, I'm very happy just to be at home building stuff.


arcturus

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7022 on: August 05, 2023, 05:30:28 PM »
Jul/23: $2.52M invested.  A little discouraging that we're < 10% above where we were two years ago, and essentially all of that is due to savings over that time.  Accounting for inflation, it's more like a 0% net balance increase after savings, and maybe a -10% return considering inflation.  It's not really surprising considering how rough 2022 was.

I hear you on this one -- you're tracking pretty close to me, as I just did the math and from 6/30/21 to 6/30/23 I am up about 12-13% and, like you, I could probably account for the vast majority of this with my contributions.  July was fun, though!  Let's both hang in there and count on the next 2 years being better!

If the next 2 years are average/10% type of years, you might find me over in the Post FIRE section.  How about you?

I'm in!  I'll sign up for that plan!

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7023 on: August 05, 2023, 05:36:08 PM »
The philosophical question is, what the difference is between someone with $2.5M NW spending $100k/yr and someone with $5M (or $10M) spending that same amount?  To anyone other than the inheritors, these people are living the same life.  This is probably why we are getting so many messages about trying to increase the spend once you are below, say, 3% SWR...

I'm always on the lookout for things that will improve my life in some noticeable way while trying not clutter up the house with random stuff but its not easy. What I've discovered in two and half years of retirement is that most of the things I really enjoy don't cost much money. For example, recently I spent an enjoyable month figuring out how to program a $25 controller chip. Our net worth went up by $150k in that time.

The one unambiguously expensive thing I do enjoy is luxury travel but there are limits. I'm discovering that there is only so much travel I can take at a time. After a lot of trips earlier this year, right now, I'm very happy just to be at home building stuff.

One of my last justifications for being frugal was to demonstrate the lifestyle to our children while they were growing up.  My parents had the means to spend more but put my sisters and I on a path to FI by encouraging mindful spending.  My father passed away recently, after years of a much more lavish lifestyle, and still left behind a good amount.  I have a strong feeling I will follow in similar footsteps.  Our second child is starting her senior year in high school, so we are on the cusp of making some big exciting changes in the coming years, fingers crossed.

Bird In Hand

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7024 on: August 06, 2023, 09:06:47 AM »
If the next 2 years are average/10% type of years, you might find me over in the Post FIRE section.  How about you?

I'm in!  I'll sign up for that plan!

It turns out I had added myself to the 2025 FIRE Cohort about six years ago.  That might turn out to be a pretty good estimate!

Much Fishing to Do

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7025 on: August 06, 2023, 09:17:30 AM »
Best thing about being in this club.  I was looking at cross country airfare to visit my parents over Labor Day.  I almost didnít book it because of the price (about $1,000 for a flight combo I could live with) but then I remembered I could afford it amid I wanted to see them.

No kidding, this sums up the past month for me.  I just got back from a $15k European trip (flights/rooms/meals) across multiple countries for 3 weeks with my wife and 3 kids (college/high school age).  I have no idea how many more family trips we'll have together at this point so, given $15k is like 0.3% of my net worth, not once did I consider not doing it based on cost. It was all about finding 3 weeks everyone could go and where everyone wanted to go what they wanted to do.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7026 on: August 06, 2023, 10:58:42 AM »
The philosophical question is, what the difference is between someone with $2.5M NW spending $100k/yr and someone with $5M (or $10M) spending that same amount?  To anyone other than the inheritors, these people are living the same life.  This is probably why we are getting so many messages about trying to increase the spend once you are below, say, 3% SWR...

I'm always on the lookout for things that will improve my life in some noticeable way while trying not clutter up the house with random stuff but its not easy. What I've discovered in two and half years of retirement is that most of the things I really enjoy don't cost much money. For example, recently I spent an enjoyable month figuring out how to program a $25 controller chip. Our net worth went up by $150k in that time.

The one unambiguously expensive thing I do enjoy is luxury travel but there are limits. I'm discovering that there is only so much travel I can take at a time. After a lot of trips earlier this year, right now, I'm very happy just to be at home building stuff.
Kind of related: I'm not a minimalist, but I find myself just not wanting "stuff" any more. I volunteer at a thrift shop and anything I need tends to show up there. We just returned from visiting our kids in CO. We find that we don't mind spending on them, but not in foolish ways. We took our granddaughter shopping for her birthday: two new dresses, new shoes, socks, and underwear. The fancy stores we chose were Costco and Walmart. She was thrilled. We went to Costco first, because we wanted to purchase some things for the family's business, as a surprise. We spent about $800 total and had fun doing it. We still enjoy the frugality game, we just play it differently.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7027 on: August 06, 2023, 11:23:11 AM »
The philosophical question is, what the difference is between someone with $2.5M NW spending $100k/yr and someone with $5M (or $10M) spending that same amount?  To anyone other than the inheritors, these people are living the same life.  This is probably why we are getting so many messages about trying to increase the spend once you are below, say, 3% SWR...

I'm always on the lookout for things that will improve my life in some noticeable way while trying not clutter up the house with random stuff but its not easy. What I've discovered in two and half years of retirement is that most of the things I really enjoy don't cost much money. For example, recently I spent an enjoyable month figuring out how to program a $25 controller chip. Our net worth went up by $150k in that time.

The one unambiguously expensive thing I do enjoy is luxury travel but there are limits. I'm discovering that there is only so much travel I can take at a time. After a lot of trips earlier this year, right now, I'm very happy just to be at home building stuff.

Also, your post is a lot like one of my earliest posts on this thread -
Interested to see how this thread goes, but I'm on vacation right now...  Funny thing is, I'm 50k or more better off than when I started this trip, makes it tough to focus on being frugal!

I guess the novelty of it has worn off, it's just a normal recurring pattern, even when I think I'm 'overspending' now!

2sk22

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7028 on: August 06, 2023, 01:25:11 PM »
Also, your post is a lot like one of my earliest posts on this thread -
Interested to see how this thread goes, but I'm on vacation right now...  Funny thing is, I'm 50k or more better off than when I started this trip, makes it tough to focus on being frugal!

I guess the novelty of it has worn off, it's just a normal recurring pattern, even when I think I'm 'overspending' now!

It was fun reading posts from 2017. One thing that strikes me is how little has changed for most of the participants here in six years. In fact, everyone is better off and people don't seem to have dropped out of this group.

2017 was really the last year I really enjoyed my work. We had a meeting with our Fidelity rep in December 2017 and he asked me when I planned to retire. I distinctly remember replying that I was not even thinking about retiring. However, by as soon as the middle of 2018, my work environment deteriorated so badly that I was wondering how I could make an exit. Thank goodness this forum was there to help me make the transition to retirement :-)

Dicey

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7029 on: August 06, 2023, 04:18:31 PM »
Also, your post is a lot like one of my earliest posts on this thread -
Interested to see how this thread goes, but I'm on vacation right now...  Funny thing is, I'm 50k or more better off than when I started this trip, makes it tough to focus on being frugal!

I guess the novelty of it has worn off, it's just a normal recurring pattern, even when I think I'm 'overspending' now!

It was fun reading posts from 2017. One thing that strikes me is how little has changed for most of the participants here in six years. In fact, everyone is better off and people don't seem to have dropped out of this group.

2017 was really the last year I really enjoyed my work. We had a meeting with our Fidelity rep in December 2017 and he asked me when I planned to retire. I distinctly remember replying that I was not even thinking about retiring. However, by as soon as the middle of 2018, my work environment deteriorated so badly that I was wondering how I could make an exit. Thank goodness this forum was there to help me make the transition to retirement :-)
I remember that forum discussion well. Seems like you've done a bang-up job of this FIRE thing. Congrats!

itchyfeet

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7030 on: August 06, 2023, 04:21:57 PM »
I, for one, had a much smaller net worth in 2017. Iíll need to open my spreadsheet, but around 50% I expect.

At that time I thought I was fairly close to FIRE. I just needed to find my way back to Australia and get my ducks in a row, including selling my expensive Sydney home.

Six years on and the biggest difference is that we have decided to move from our expensive Sydney home to another expensive home. So we need a bigger stash.

Inflation and conservatism account for the rest. Other than the house, our dreams for our post retirement lifestyle havenít changed much these past 6 years despite being far wealthier. Thatís encouraging.

itchyfeet

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7031 on: August 11, 2023, 12:02:41 AM »
So today my DW bravely told her boss that she would not be returning after Christmas for the 2024 school year (school year = calendar year in Australia).

Effectively my DW has handed in her resignation and has committed to FIRE.

She shared with me that it was a very nerve wracking thing to do.

She found it very scary to be relying on all I have been preaching about early retirement and our purported sound financial position..... And her boss loves her and wanted her to stay.

Now the pressure is on me. I need to also give notice soon.... YIKES.

I still feel I am crazy to be walking away from my high paying job (that I dont love mind you, but nonetheless has been good to me financially over the years), and I will be leaving alot on the table in the form of golden handcuffs too.

I keep telling myself that I am content in my plans and our stash is "enough". But will I have regrets?

Maybe one day I will particularly want to drive a Porsche 911 and own a holiday house on the coast, own a pied de terre in the city and fly at the pointy end of planes.....Surely not.

Maybe my math is wrong and I have overlooked something.... Maybe I will loath not working....

Getting across this finish line is hard.

Dicey

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7032 on: August 11, 2023, 12:32:47 AM »
So today my DW bravely told her boss that she would not be returning after Christmas for the 2024 school year (school year = calendar year in Australia).

Effectively my DW has handed in her resignation and has committed to FIRE.

She shared with me that it was a very nerve wracking thing to do.

She found it very scary to be relying on all I have been preaching about early retirement and our purported sound financial position..... And her boss loves her and wanted her to stay.

Now the pressure is on me. I need to also give notice soon.... YIKES.

I still feel I am crazy to be walking away from my high paying job (that I dont love mind you, but nonetheless has been good to me financially over the years), and I will be leaving alot on the table in the form of golden handcuffs too.

I keep telling myself that I am content in my plans and our stash is "enough". But will I have regrets?

Maybe one day I will particularly want to drive a Porsche 911 and own a holiday house on the coast, own a pied de terre in the city and fly at the pointy end of planes.....Surely not.

Maybe my math is wrong and I have overlooked something.... Maybe I will loath not working....

Getting across this finish line is hard.
Should you find that you really need one or more of those things, there are plenty types of ways to hack them. Go, have fun with the rest of your life.

Ozlady

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7033 on: August 11, 2023, 01:25:16 AM »
I, for one, had a much smaller net worth in 2017. Iíll need to open my spreadsheet, but around 50% I expect.

At that time I thought I was fairly close to FIRE. I just needed to find my way back to Australia and get my ducks in a row, including selling my expensive Sydney home.

Six years on and the biggest difference is that we have decided to move from our expensive Sydney home to another expensive home. So we need a bigger stash.

Inflation and conservatism account for the rest. Other than the house, our dreams for our post retirement lifestyle havenít changed much these past 6 years despite being far wealthier. Thatís encouraging.


Exciting times Itchy Feet...

I may have missed it but what is the logic behind "moving from one expensive home to another expensive home" so  close to retirement?

Curious...

2sk22

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7034 on: August 11, 2023, 06:25:26 AM »
So today my DW bravely told her boss that she would not be returning after Christmas for the 2024 school year (school year = calendar year in Australia).

Effectively my DW has handed in her resignation and has committed to FIRE.

She shared with me that it was a very nerve wracking thing to do.

She found it very scary to be relying on all I have been preaching about early retirement and our purported sound financial position..... And her boss loves her and wanted her to stay.

Now the pressure is on me. I need to also give notice soon.... YIKES.

I still feel I am crazy to be walking away from my high paying job (that I dont love mind you, but nonetheless has been good to me financially over the years), and I will be leaving alot on the table in the form of golden handcuffs too.

I keep telling myself that I am content in my plans and our stash is "enough". But will I have regrets?

Maybe one day I will particularly want to drive a Porsche 911 and own a holiday house on the coast, own a pied de terre in the city and fly at the pointy end of planes.....Surely not.

Maybe my math is wrong and I have overlooked something.... Maybe I will loath not working....

Getting across this finish line is hard.

When you look at a flying airplane, there are four forces acting on it: Thrust forward, drag backwards, lift upwards and gravity downward. Using this as a metaphor for early retirement:

Lift = Assets
Gravity = Liabilities
Thrust = "push" in the form of an unpleasant job and "pull" in the form of something you want to do with your time.
Drag = anxiety about finances

So early retirement means you are climbing: Thrust is greater than drag, and lift is greater than gravity. Not sure where I'm going with this but maybe this helped? 😀

itchyfeet

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7035 on: August 11, 2023, 07:00:50 AM »
I, for one, had a much smaller net worth in 2017. Iíll need to open my spreadsheet, but around 50% I expect.

At that time I thought I was fairly close to FIRE. I just needed to find my way back to Australia and get my ducks in a row, including selling my expensive Sydney home.

Six years on and the biggest difference is that we have decided to move from our expensive Sydney home to another expensive home. So we need a bigger stash.

Inflation and conservatism account for the rest. Other than the house, our dreams for our post retirement lifestyle havenít changed much these past 6 years despite being far wealthier. Thatís encouraging.


Exciting times Itchy Feet...

I may have missed it but what is the logic behind "moving from one expensive home to another expensive home" so  close to retirement?

Curious...

We currently live in an inner suburb of Sydney, which has been great while working being so close to the city and having bars and restaurants on our doorstep.

But nowadays we are also bursting at the seams a bit as we expand our hobbies. In particular I have camping gear and car parts piled up in what is meant to be my office space. Our camper trailer is crammed in our tiny backyard and is difficult (painfully so) to get in and out of the parking space. I need a shed to tinker in.

DW also needs space too. She wants a yoga studio/ gym.

We also want to grow food and I want to build a garden and try my hand at landscaping. I used to work as a landscape labourer when I was at university to earn a few dollars.

We just decided we wanted more space to spread out, and also have room to host family and friends who might stay with us for a longer period as we wonít be rushing around any more,

We originally thought we would just move into a regional area where we could buy a lot more for a lot less. In the end this didnít play out as we decided we actually wanted to still be not too far from Sydney where we have a big group of friends that we love spending time with, and aging parents that we want to be nearby to spend time with as they wonít be around forever.

We ended buying a couple of beautiful acres in the Southern Highlands, which is an expensive area as itís still only about 90 mins from the city centre, and then we ended up signing up to build more house than we will probably know what to do with. Anyways, itís all an adventure and we can sell our oversized house once I have landscaped the bejeezus out of it and got that out of my system.

itchyfeet

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7036 on: August 11, 2023, 07:04:25 AM »

When you look at a flying airplane, there are four forces acting on it: Thrust forward, drag backwards, lift upwards and gravity downward. Using this as a metaphor for early retirement:

Lift = Assets
Gravity = Liabilities
Thrust = "push" in the form of an unpleasant job and "pull" in the form of something you want to do with your time.
Drag = anxiety about finances

So early retirement means you are climbing: Thrust is greater than drag, and lift is greater than gravity. Not sure where I'm going with this but maybe this helped? 😀

I am definitely feeling the pull in multiple directions. Iím not sure what the ejection seat trigger represents, but assuming it comes with the promise of a parachute and a gentle landing, I am ready to press eject.

Dancin'Dog

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7037 on: August 11, 2023, 07:52:02 AM »
So today my DW bravely told her boss that she would not be returning after Christmas for the 2024 school year (school year = calendar year in Australia).

Effectively my DW has handed in her resignation and has committed to FIRE.

She shared with me that it was a very nerve wracking thing to do.

She found it very scary to be relying on all I have been preaching about early retirement and our purported sound financial position..... And her boss loves her and wanted her to stay.

Now the pressure is on me. I need to also give notice soon.... YIKES.

I still feel I am crazy to be walking away from my high paying job (that I dont love mind you, but nonetheless has been good to me financially over the years), and I will be leaving alot on the table in the form of golden handcuffs too.

I keep telling myself that I am content in my plans and our stash is "enough". But will I have regrets?

Maybe one day I will particularly want to drive a Porsche 911 and own a holiday house on the coast, own a pied de terre in the city and fly at the pointy end of planes.....Surely not.

Maybe my math is wrong and I have overlooked something.... Maybe I will loath not working....

Getting across this finish line is hard.

When you look at a flying airplane, there are four forces acting on it: Thrust forward, drag backwards, lift upwards and gravity downward. Using this as a metaphor for early retirement:

Lift = Assets
Gravity = Liabilities
Thrust = "push" in the form of an unpleasant job and "pull" in the form of something you want to do with your time.
Drag = anxiety about finances

So early retirement means you are climbing: Thrust is greater than drag, and lift is greater than gravity. Not sure where I'm going with this but maybe this helped? 😀




I think your "airplane" becomes a "glider" after RE and you switch over from relying on your engine (job) to climb & accelerate to relying on your skills riding the thermals (investments) to maintain altitude and momentum until the end of the ride.


I guess Fat FIRE would be like keeping the engine & getting a free gas card.  ;)




farmecologist

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7038 on: August 11, 2023, 11:16:46 AM »
So many employers want really long notice when we decide to leave.  One job, I liked my boss a lot.  He had been a peer at a previous engineering job.  I gave them a 7 week notice.  They started looking for someone a week before I left and got someone 3 days before I left.  They were twiddling their thumbs for 6 weeks.

Ö

This is my experience as well. Same for moving jobs inside a company. I have never experienced any real transition effort. Sometimes HR gets in the way of course, no backfilling until spot is empty, and so on, but normally itís typical lack of leadership.

My megacorp tech company has dragged ass for so long in hiring ( like literally over a decade ), there is absolutely no way they can fill the gap, and they know it. 

And you know what?   F'em.  They have treated employees so badly for so long ( yearly layoffs, etc.. ), that I'm to the point that I want to screw them over when I leave.   I hate to be that way, but when that's how you get when employees have been treated so poorly for so long.


pecunia

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7039 on: August 11, 2023, 12:06:39 PM »
So many employers want really long notice when we decide to leave.  One job, I liked my boss a lot.  He had been a peer at a previous engineering job.  I gave them a 7 week notice.  They started looking for someone a week before I left and got someone 3 days before I left.  They were twiddling their thumbs for 6 weeks.

Ö

This is my experience as well. Same for moving jobs inside a company. I have never experienced any real transition effort. Sometimes HR gets in the way of course, no backfilling until spot is empty, and so on, but normally itís typical lack of leadership.

My megacorp tech company has dragged ass for so long in hiring ( like literally over a decade ), there is absolutely no way they can fill the gap, and they know it. 

And you know what?   F'em.  They have treated employees so badly for so long ( yearly layoffs, etc.. ), that I'm to the point that I want to screw them over when I leave.   I hate to be that way, but when that's how you get when employees have been treated so poorly for so long.

You guys are have all done well.  Most of you have a very positive view of the corporate world.  I'm guessing the politics lean heavily to the conservative side.  Therefore that the idea of not training new employees or replacing employees is a deliberate way to up the cash flow may not be met with positivity.  However, it does exist in the corporate world.   For example, private equity companies may suck the recent acquisition dry.

https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/private-equity-deadspin/

farmecologist

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7040 on: August 11, 2023, 12:39:14 PM »
So many employers want really long notice when we decide to leave.  One job, I liked my boss a lot.  He had been a peer at a previous engineering job.  I gave them a 7 week notice.  They started looking for someone a week before I left and got someone 3 days before I left.  They were twiddling their thumbs for 6 weeks.

Ö

This is my experience as well. Same for moving jobs inside a company. I have never experienced any real transition effort. Sometimes HR gets in the way of course, no backfilling until spot is empty, and so on, but normally itís typical lack of leadership.

My megacorp tech company has dragged ass for so long in hiring ( like literally over a decade ), there is absolutely no way they can fill the gap, and they know it. 

And you know what?   F'em.  They have treated employees so badly for so long ( yearly layoffs, etc.. ), that I'm to the point that I want to screw them over when I leave.   I hate to be that way, but when that's how you get when employees have been treated so poorly for so long.

You guys are have all done well.  Most of you have a very positive view of the corporate world.  I'm guessing the politics lean heavily to the conservative side.  Therefore that the idea of not training new employees or replacing employees is a deliberate way to up the cash flow may not be met with positivity.  However, it does exist in the corporate world.   For example, private equity companies may suck the recent acquisition dry.

https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/private-equity-deadspin/

Haha...well, I'm pretty much the least conservative person out there...so no, I don't lean conservative.

It just irks me when corporations lay people off with no notice whatsoever and then "Expect" a long lead time when an employee decides to bail on them.   Uhh...no.  That's not the way it works.

Also a bit annoyed when people feel "guilty" when they leave, especially from a megacorp.  Folks, don't feel guilty about your decision to leave on short notice...you are but a cog in the machine, if even that. 
« Last Edit: August 11, 2023, 12:41:20 PM by farmecologist »

Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7041 on: August 11, 2023, 01:17:18 PM »
I guess fiscally we all believe in the "free" market.. At least we follow what rich people do generally and Voila we are also wealthy.. ish!

Politically I would say I was a moderate Republican with a strong sense of a need for some socialised underpinnings.. such as universal healthcare.

As to the current GOP.. Well lets just say I'm rooting for Jack Smith and believe Treason (if proved) should meet with a date with the electric chair!

ATtiny85

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7042 on: August 11, 2023, 01:26:18 PM »

...

It just irks me when corporations lay people off with no notice whatsoever and then "Expect" a long lead time when an employee decides to bail on them.   Uhh...no.  That's not the way it works.

Also a bit annoyed when people feel "guilty" when they leave, especially from a megacorp.  Folks, don't feel guilty about your decision to leave on short notice...you are but a cog in the machine, if even that.

I had an (ex)boss once who lamented to me a few days after I gave two weeks notice "we were disappointed that with your position you didn't give at least three weeks." I simply answered "boss, I consulted the employee handbook I was given when I started. It says 'we would appreciate two week notice if resigning.' If you folks want people above a certain level to give more time, step one would be to put it in the handbook".

catccc

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7043 on: August 11, 2023, 01:42:19 PM »
Officially rejoining this thread.  Hit $2M a couple days ago. In late 2021 it looked like it was just around the corner, and then 2022 happened.

I am really having a hard time deciding if I like my job or if it stresses me out, and if I should keep working or not.

DH doesnít like his job, but feels it is unfair to retire before I do.  I am fine with it, but I would expect that he take on a lot of the domestic duties are currently split but still mostly on me.

Iím thinking maybe we get to $3M and then really I quit?  But I said that about $2M before, so IDK.

I keep doing well at work and they keep paying me more, so I feel like I gotta strike while itís hot.

@catccc
Welcome back!!
We are just a year or two ahead of you in terms of our ages and our kids ages. I FIREd in 2020 (but have been doing a bit of contract work) DH is still working. He loves his job and it covers our crazy crazy tuition bills and provides great insurance. He plans to stay 10 more years but weíll see what happens.
Iíve found FIRE during this time with the kids to be really helpful because they need to be driven so many places all the time!!  But itís also frustrating because we canít really travel until the kids are out of school. Which is another reason DH has been happy to keep working and Iíve done some contact work. We are tied to the house because of the school schedule anyway might as well bring in a little money!
The other difficulty Iíve found in FIRE with kids is that Iím never quite sure what our expenses will be. Tuition is a lot but itís mostly known. The sports bills really add up and tend to fluctuate. We will have a new driver soon and I have no idea what insurance and vehicle costs will be for him. Iím not sure what college will really be either. And while all these things can be really expensive they will start to significantly taper off in 8 years.
All that to say, Iím glad to be FI. Iím sure you are too. But I can understand with kids the allure of continuing to work and earn more at least until they are (mostly) flown.

Thanks for sharing your experience!  I have looked into insurance costs and it is pricey, but I suppose that is part of the cost of raising kids.  I would really like DH to FIRE, but he also feels he has to be doing "something."  I think that "something" could be focusing on his health and managing the household.  But his work is seasonal and we are about to roll into a slower and less stressful time for him, so it makes some sense for him to keep going at the moment.  Maybe next Spring before the busy season rolls around he can bow out gracefully.

catccc

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7044 on: August 11, 2023, 01:45:58 PM »
Officially rejoining this thread.  Hit $2M a couple days ago. In late 2021 it looked like it was just around the corner, and then 2022 happened.

I am really having a hard time deciding if I like my job or if it stresses me out, and if I should keep working or not.

DH doesnít like his job, but feels it is unfair to retire before I do.  I am fine with it, but I would expect that he take on a lot of the domestic duties are currently split but still mostly on me.

Iím thinking maybe we get to $3M and then really I quit?  But I said that about $2M before, so IDK.

I keep doing well at work and they keep paying me more, so I feel like I gotta strike while itís hot.

Here's the thing that hit me when it finally rolled into my head and I didn't have to be on the job.  Because I was no longer dependent on the job, it was like a weight lifted.  I could smile at some of the stuff that used to weigh me down.  In a sort of way, I became in charge and not "them."

I like that and understand it to a point... I am able to let go of the results that are outside of my control.  If a colleague wants choice A for a project XYZ, and I disagree and think we should go with choice B, I'll make my case, but I won't stress if it doesn't go my way, because ultimately the consequences aren't that impactful to me personally.  But of course we have our personal pride, and I don't want to do a bad job at my job... so there is pressure to continue to perform. 

catccc

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7045 on: August 11, 2023, 01:56:59 PM »
Officially rejoining this thread.  Hit $2M a couple days ago. In late 2021 it looked like it was just around the corner, and then 2022 happened.

I am really having a hard time deciding if I like my job or if it stresses me out, and if I should keep working or not.

DH doesnít like his job, but feels it is unfair to retire before I do.  I am fine with it, but I would expect that he take on a lot of the domestic duties are currently split but still mostly on me.

Iím thinking maybe we get to $3M and then really I quit?  But I said that about $2M before, so IDK.

I keep doing well at work and they keep paying me more, so I feel like I gotta strike while itís hot.

@catccc
Welcome back!!
We are just a year or two ahead of you in terms of our ages and our kids ages. I FIREd in 2020 (but have been doing a bit of contract work) DH is still working. He loves his job and it covers our crazy crazy tuition bills and provides great insurance. He plans to stay 10 more years but weíll see what happens.
Iíve found FIRE during this time with the kids to be really helpful because they need to be driven so many places all the time!!  But itís also frustrating because we canít really travel until the kids are out of school. Which is another reason DH has been happy to keep working and Iíve done some contact work. We are tied to the house because of the school schedule anyway might as well bring in a little money!
The other difficulty Iíve found in FIRE with kids is that Iím never quite sure what our expenses will be. Tuition is a lot but itís mostly known. The sports bills really add up and tend to fluctuate. We will have a new driver soon and I have no idea what insurance and vehicle costs will be for him. Iím not sure what college will really be either. And while all these things can be really expensive they will start to significantly taper off in 8 years.
All that to say, Iím glad to be FI. Iím sure you are too. But I can understand with kids the allure of continuing to work and earn more at least until they are (mostly) flown.

BC - I am with you as you know having commented on some of my posts.   Big time struggle having kids aging into driving and college....and wanting to do some great family time trips to lock in the time and memories for years to come (just got back from a kick ass trip to Hawaii).   Kids activity costs are still high but only a year or few left of that, and college costs are overwhelming but we have set aside an amount that covers all but the most expensive schools.......wish i could be like most and buy a vacation home and let my kids be overly indebted from school, but alas I am a sucker.   It's probably still not enough.   

I went back to work and while sucks, I think the original rationale holds and thus far was worth it even if i hate it and I am unhealthier than I was.....setting aside significantly more for college costs and covering a couple of spendy memorable trips was worth it.   

But not for much longer....my state on a mental and physical basis can best be compared to that guy in the Supersize Me documentary.   Sure, some will say it's not worth even in the short term but to each their own. 

TLDR....having 3 teens in a multitude of activies and are likely college bound is F'ing expensive , and for years to come.   

ETA....about 10 years ago I thought we has "Enough" which by the way was less than half of what we have now on an inflation adjusted basis.   At the time, my oldest was 7 and what we had relative to our expenses was spot on....except that our expenses grew as they grew.....everything cost more (food, medical, activities.....did I say activities....oh and trips for 5 cost a f'ck ton...always something.....oh yeah, and then we started thinking about college....WTF).   Without kids no doubt we would have been golden.....butbi love those little (now big f'ers).

The only problem is that bc I was wrong I continue to think I was wrong and I really am not sure how much we need....even though I think we are good.

So much "samesies."  I think our FI number used to be 1.4M.  Based on our spending now, that wouldn't cut it.  So I was wrong, and maybe I'm wrong that 2.0M would be enough.  Plus, there are a bunch of unknowns, like growing kids, aging parents, aging us.

Also, just got back from a kick ass trip to Hawaii!  3 weeks.  I was considering asking for a sabbatical in 2022 to go for a month, planning to quit if the sabbatical wasn't approved.  Then I got promoted and decided not to ask for the sabbatical.  I got two more raises between the promotion and now, and I think things are going well, and I'm afraid we don't have enough, so I'm just plugging away.

I really do think DH should quit, though.  He's so over that job.  It doesn't pay a ton.  He has access to a 403b and a 457, and is salary is just around the contribution limit for both, so it is definitely helping our stash, but we don't rely on his paycheck for anything because his take home pay is literally between a few dollars.  Once it went negative, so there was no direct deposit and we didn't even notice for a number of months.

farmecologist

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7046 on: August 11, 2023, 02:00:44 PM »
Officially rejoining this thread.  Hit $2M a couple days ago. In late 2021 it looked like it was just around the corner, and then 2022 happened.

I am really having a hard time deciding if I like my job or if it stresses me out, and if I should keep working or not.

DH doesnít like his job, but feels it is unfair to retire before I do.  I am fine with it, but I would expect that he take on a lot of the domestic duties are currently split but still mostly on me.

Iím thinking maybe we get to $3M and then really I quit?  But I said that about $2M before, so IDK.

I keep doing well at work and they keep paying me more, so I feel like I gotta strike while itís hot.

@catccc
Welcome back!!
We are just a year or two ahead of you in terms of our ages and our kids ages. I FIREd in 2020 (but have been doing a bit of contract work) DH is still working. He loves his job and it covers our crazy crazy tuition bills and provides great insurance. He plans to stay 10 more years but weíll see what happens.
Iíve found FIRE during this time with the kids to be really helpful because they need to be driven so many places all the time!!  But itís also frustrating because we canít really travel until the kids are out of school. Which is another reason DH has been happy to keep working and Iíve done some contact work. We are tied to the house because of the school schedule anyway might as well bring in a little money!
The other difficulty Iíve found in FIRE with kids is that Iím never quite sure what our expenses will be. Tuition is a lot but itís mostly known. The sports bills really add up and tend to fluctuate. We will have a new driver soon and I have no idea what insurance and vehicle costs will be for him. Iím not sure what college will really be either. And while all these things can be really expensive they will start to significantly taper off in 8 years.
All that to say, Iím glad to be FI. Iím sure you are too. But I can understand with kids the allure of continuing to work and earn more at least until they are (mostly) flown.

BC - I am with you as you know having commented on some of my posts.   Big time struggle having kids aging into driving and college....and wanting to do some great family time trips to lock in the time and memories for years to come (just got back from a kick ass trip to Hawaii).   Kids activity costs are still high but only a year or few left of that, and college costs are overwhelming but we have set aside an amount that covers all but the most expensive schools.......wish i could be like most and buy a vacation home and let my kids be overly indebted from school, but alas I am a sucker.   It's probably still not enough.   

I went back to work and while sucks, I think the original rationale holds and thus far was worth it even if i hate it and I am unhealthier than I was.....setting aside significantly more for college costs and covering a couple of spendy memorable trips was worth it.   

But not for much longer....my state on a mental and physical basis can best be compared to that guy in the Supersize Me documentary.   Sure, some will say it's not worth even in the short term but to each their own. 

TLDR....having 3 teens in a multitude of activies and are likely college bound is F'ing expensive , and for years to come.   

ETA....about 10 years ago I thought we has "Enough" which by the way was less than half of what we have now on an inflation adjusted basis.   At the time, my oldest was 7 and what we had relative to our expenses was spot on....except that our expenses grew as they grew.....everything cost more (food, medical, activities.....did I say activities....oh and trips for 5 cost a f'ck ton...always something.....oh yeah, and then we started thinking about college....WTF).   Without kids no doubt we would have been golden.....butbi love those little (now big f'ers).

The only problem is that bc I was wrong I continue to think I was wrong and I really am not sure how much we need....even though I think we are good.

So much "samesies."  I think our FI number used to be 1.4M.  Based on our spending now, that wouldn't cut it.  So I was wrong, and maybe I'm wrong that 2.0M would be enough.  Plus, there are a bunch of unknowns, like growing kids, aging parents, aging us.

Also, just got back from a kick ass trip to Hawaii!  3 weeks.  I was considering asking for a sabbatical in 2022 to go for a month, planning to quit if the sabbatical wasn't approved.  Then I got promoted and decided not to ask for the sabbatical.  I got two more raises between the promotion and now, and I think things are going well, and I'm afraid we don't have enough, so I'm just plugging away.

I really do think DH should quit, though.  He's so over that job.  It doesn't pay a ton.  He has access to a 403b and a 457, and is salary is just around the contribution limit for both, so it is definitely helping our stash, but we don't rely on his paycheck for anything because his take home pay is literally between a few dollars.  Once it went negative, so there was no direct deposit and we didn't even notice for a number of months.

Sounds like everyone here has OMY syndrome.   Including me.    I'm in the same boat as your DH.   I'm SO over my current megacorp job it isn't even funny.  Been there for 30+ years now...and I'm pretty much done, but continuing to coast.




BeanCounter

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7047 on: August 11, 2023, 06:29:23 PM »
Officially rejoining this thread.  Hit $2M a couple days ago. In late 2021 it looked like it was just around the corner, and then 2022 happened.

I am really having a hard time deciding if I like my job or if it stresses me out, and if I should keep working or not.

DH doesnít like his job, but feels it is unfair to retire before I do.  I am fine with it, but I would expect that he take on a lot of the domestic duties are currently split but still mostly on me.

Iím thinking maybe we get to $3M and then really I quit?  But I said that about $2M before, so IDK.

I keep doing well at work and they keep paying me more, so I feel like I gotta strike while itís hot.

@catccc
Welcome back!!
We are just a year or two ahead of you in terms of our ages and our kids ages. I FIREd in 2020 (but have been doing a bit of contract work) DH is still working. He loves his job and it covers our crazy crazy tuition bills and provides great insurance. He plans to stay 10 more years but weíll see what happens.
Iíve found FIRE during this time with the kids to be really helpful because they need to be driven so many places all the time!!  But itís also frustrating because we canít really travel until the kids are out of school. Which is another reason DH has been happy to keep working and Iíve done some contact work. We are tied to the house because of the school schedule anyway might as well bring in a little money!
The other difficulty Iíve found in FIRE with kids is that Iím never quite sure what our expenses will be. Tuition is a lot but itís mostly known. The sports bills really add up and tend to fluctuate. We will have a new driver soon and I have no idea what insurance and vehicle costs will be for him. Iím not sure what college will really be either. And while all these things can be really expensive they will start to significantly taper off in 8 years.
All that to say, Iím glad to be FI. Iím sure you are too. But I can understand with kids the allure of continuing to work and earn more at least until they are (mostly) flown.

BC - I am with you as you know having commented on some of my posts.   Big time struggle having kids aging into driving and college....and wanting to do some great family time trips to lock in the time and memories for years to come (just got back from a kick ass trip to Hawaii).   Kids activity costs are still high but only a year or few left of that, and college costs are overwhelming but we have set aside an amount that covers all but the most expensive schools.......wish i could be like most and buy a vacation home and let my kids be overly indebted from school, but alas I am a sucker.   It's probably still not enough.   

I went back to work and while sucks, I think the original rationale holds and thus far was worth it even if i hate it and I am unhealthier than I was.....setting aside significantly more for college costs and covering a couple of spendy memorable trips was worth it.   

But not for much longer....my state on a mental and physical basis can best be compared to that guy in the Supersize Me documentary.   Sure, some will say it's not worth even in the short term but to each their own. 

TLDR....having 3 teens in a multitude of activies and are likely college bound is F'ing expensive , and for years to come.   

ETA....about 10 years ago I thought we has "Enough" which by the way was less than half of what we have now on an inflation adjusted basis.   At the time, my oldest was 7 and what we had relative to our expenses was spot on....except that our expenses grew as they grew.....everything cost more (food, medical, activities.....did I say activities....oh and trips for 5 cost a f'ck ton...always something.....oh yeah, and then we started thinking about college....WTF).   Without kids no doubt we would have been golden.....butbi love those little (now big f'ers).

The only problem is that bc I was wrong I continue to think I was wrong and I really am not sure how much we need....even though I think we are good.

So much "samesies."  I think our FI number used to be 1.4M.  Based on our spending now, that wouldn't cut it.  So I was wrong, and maybe I'm wrong that 2.0M would be enough.  Plus, there are a bunch of unknowns, like growing kids, aging parents, aging us.

Also, just got back from a kick ass trip to Hawaii!  3 weeks.  I was considering asking for a sabbatical in 2022 to go for a month, planning to quit if the sabbatical wasn't approved.  Then I got promoted and decided not to ask for the sabbatical.  I got two more raises between the promotion and now, and I think things are going well, and I'm afraid we don't have enough, so I'm just plugging away.

I really do think DH should quit, though.  He's so over that job.  It doesn't pay a ton.  He has access to a 403b and a 457, and is salary is just around the contribution limit for both, so it is definitely helping our stash, but we don't rely on his paycheck for anything because his take home pay is literally between a few dollars.  Once it went negative, so there was no direct deposit and we didn't even notice for a number of months.

Sounds like everyone here has OMY syndrome.   Including me.    I'm in the same boat as your DH.   I'm SO over my current megacorp job it isn't even funny.  Been there for 30+ years now...and I'm pretty much done, but continuing to coast.

Well I did FIRE in 2020, picked up consulting work in 2021 and have been doing that part time since. While itís a better fit than full time work, Iím still struggling with how little time I have to do anything so Iím scaling that back. DH is still working for now. I dont think heís interested in quitting until the kids fly the nest and may stay until 55 to lock in his tuition discount.
Despite all this I think this is the first year we will start making draws because our expenses are so high. And unpredictable which is why itís so easy to OMY and second guess if youíll ever have enough. Case in point-
My son made the HS golf team. (Which is really exciting because the cut line for freshman was 85 and we didnít think he could get his score that low) We are so happy for him, but as soon as we got the new parents dinner invite it was followed with ďbring your checkbookĒ. $125 team fees, $523 in gear purchases and $78 boosters donation plus he likely needs a new set of clubs. $x,xxx?
None of that was in the budget.
Oh well. YOLO

arcturus

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7048 on: August 12, 2023, 07:18:48 AM »
@BeanCounter , and folks, this is one of the reasons I would have such a hard time pulling the trigger with dependents who have not yet established their own independence, etc.  My situation is that it is taking much longer on that front than I had anticipated, at the cost of more than $120K above and beyond undergraduate college expenses.  529 accounts are $0.00 at this point, so everything hits 'stache dollars.  Not saying this to discourage anyone, just something to consider - that the brain of a early adult is an interesting mix of chemistry, and it can result in some paths being taken that were not necessarily in the script you wrote.

My discussions with DW of late are contemplating significantly more travel than I had originally planned for.  What I find encouraging is that, in response to this potential budget-busting news, I am finding myself tightening the budget in other areas and reducing aspirations for the retirement dwelling (current house is too large, too expensive - so we know we have to make a change there).  This, versus the alternative of saying, "Ok, I'll just work X more year(s)."

Of course, I'm not the spring chicken that many others on this thread are (I'm 54 with a target age of 56), but I am nevertheless encouraged by my response to this change.  It makes me realize that, despite having a "number" attained or having a spreadsheet that says the money should last until age 88.36752914, at some point you will just have to take a leap of faith and realize that, if you were smart enough to get into this cohort, you're probably going to be smart enough to get early headlights to any "situations" on the horizon and make adjustments accordingly (on either the expense side or the income side). 

Does this mean that I won't fall victim to OMY?   Hard to say for sure, but I'm hopeful that I won't.  Life is too short and I've already delayed this thing long enough with some personal & financial setbacks along the way.   

My 2 cents this morning (takes a sip of coffee), wishing everyone all the best in your journeys!


PS> I read others saying they just need to "coast" for X more years, and I don't know what to think.  I don't believe I am capable of "coasting" whatever that means.  Which is one of my challenges in this journey.   I'm either all in or I'm out and I'm generally not happy with myself when I'm just doing the minimum to get by.   Maybe I'm missing a chip.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2023, 07:28:08 AM by arcturus »

couponvan

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7049 on: August 12, 2023, 07:31:24 AM »
College expenses and health care are my main two variables that make me feel worried about retirement. At 52, I have taken 10 years off working (6 years when my youngest was born, and 4 years after cancer). I am back working part time (well itís been more like full time the past two months) to pay for the youngest to go to college. The middle one might be taking a gap year, so who know when he will need the $. With the cost of college, I almost wonder if we wouldnít be better off giving the kids a house vs tuition $. 

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!