The Money Mustache Community

General Discussion => Throw Down the Gauntlet => Topic started by: Car Jack on February 15, 2017, 07:54:42 AM

Title: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Car Jack on February 15, 2017, 07:54:42 AM
I do understand that many here feel that once we hit a huge number like $2M, we *MUST* declare FI and retire.  I'm not there and have an age retirement plan rather than a number and know that DW will feel better, the bigger that number is on the spreadsheet showing total invested assets.  Since my big "2" seems like it's going to stick (RSUs vested today, ESPP the first of March and $10k sitting in a Citi account to get that $400 bonus releases mid March), I think the next goal is the next big number, and the number of the counting shall be....3.

As with the "2" thread, I'm counting investable assets.  Not house, not rental property, not cars, not silver coins.  Too easy to cheat with stuff that needs to be valued, in my humble opinion.

I've seen others note that the first $M is hard, the second easier and the 3rd, 4th etc progressively easier.  I guess we'll see and since I plan to retire about 2 years from now, we'll see how that works when the traditional big income (well.....100k ish engineer's salary) stops and I take odd jobs at hardware stores or driving for Uber or plowing snow from business parking lots for fun.

I'm a recent Bogle follower and only looked at my finances in the last 5 years.  Someone mentioned that people should know the expense ratios of all of their investments.  That made sense to me.  It also dawned on me that I didn't even know what all of my investment accounts were.  A spreadsheet was started, ERs were filled in and comparisons between Contrafund and Total Market Index were performed.  Once convinced that index funds perform relatively equally to actively managed ones, everything was switched over to Index.  Conglomeration was done, moving tiny, old 401k's, 403b's, selling wholevariablewhoknows policies, maxing tax advantaged space and opening a taxable account to put the excess.  All the while, my older son hit college and FAFSA laughed in my face for aid but my mom and DWs dad have been generous, directly paying part of the tuition bill every semester.  Son #2 hit a private high school after his public one totally failed him.  Not a hoidy toidy $70k high school.....$8500 all in a year.  As an aid, I sold off my toy car....a Lotus Elise and replaced it with a car my son could drive to his summer job and use in college....an 04 Outback (45k miles!) bought from the father in-law who bought it new. 

So the plan going forward.  Stay the course.  As the money becomes available, invest more in taxable (Schwab ETFs) and keep the cars as long as possible.  I'm a car guy with a track history, but haven't seen the track from inside a racecar in maybe 7 years (I instructed for a dozen years before this).  So not having a racecar and all that goes with it for expenses has reduced expenses.  We instead visit Lime Rock a few times in the summer and watch the pros do it out there.  I do a bit of credit card and bank account churning for bonuses and have signed up with the new tradeline company to try to cash in on that.....<anxiously awaiting>.  My "life" spreadsheet is broken down by year and events expected and I fill in reality as it happens. 

So I am interested in stories from others and their plans going forward.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: bigchrisb on February 20, 2017, 04:12:40 PM
Sounds like you are well on your way!  Out of curiosity, do you have a home mortgage and own your own home?  I found it psychologically necessary to track home equity while I was paying down the home, as otherwise I had a propensity to over-leverage myself.  Now that I've fully offset the debt, I'm more agnostic about it.  Depending on approaches, I belong either in the race to $2m or the race to $3m, as net worth including residential property is about $2.75m, while net worth of just liquid stocks, bonds and cash is more like $1.75. 

Sounds like you are on auto-pilot and will cruise over your target given a bit of time.

For me, I think I'm about to see a slowdown in the accumulation rate - taking a sabbatical/trial FIRE while my wife does an overseas posting, and thinking about throwing some kids into the mix.  I'm expecting the next million target to take a few years, and be more in the hands of the markets than determined by my earned income.

 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on February 21, 2017, 06:38:57 AM
I paid off my house about 15 years ago.  Back then, I was an overly cautious investor, having bought company stock during the '87 selloff.  So paying off debt and the mortgage was the only ways I invested.

There's nothing wrong with tracking net worth and using that number for goals to attain.  I constantly change my goals once one is reached.  I had the $2M goal for quite a while for investments only.  Then it was to hit $1M within just my rollover IRA (not quite there).  When I hit that, I'll set some new, short term, attainable, arbitrary goal.  I've actually got one small goal in my Vanguard account to get back to zero.  It's been in developed international for about 2 years and is still under water.  I'm $2900 from getting to zero on a $250k account.

I still sweat the small stuff.  From the tradeline thread, I read about low balance forgiveness and tried it on several of my cards.  $0.98 forgiven on Barclays and $1.96 forgiven on discover.  Sounds like mouse nuts but free money is free money.  I showed my wife the Discover statement which also gave me $0.10 in rewards because I spent that $1.96 on gas, which is a 5% category this quarter.  And yah.....I pick up pennies on the sidewalk.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: TheAnonOne on February 24, 2017, 09:49:07 AM


I do understand that many here feel that once we hit a huge number like $2M, we *MUST* declare FI and retire.

Well, you MUST declare FI because you are FI either way.

RE has never been a requirement here, the point is doing what YOU want after that point because BEFORE FI you are more or less forced to work to survive.


All that being said....by the time someone hits FI, work starts to have an ever decreasing effect on your networth. When someone is saving 100k a year, and only has 100k in the bank, work is pushing them 100% higher!

If they have 2 million in the bank, that same 100k is only 5% so ultimately, one person working and one person NOT working will go from 2 to 3 million at a somewhat similar rate.

To make it a bit more extreme. If you had 100mil in the bank, would you keep work a whole year to go from 100,000,000 to 100,100,000? Probably not.

Ultimately, it's up to you, that's the best part about FI! Though, for many here, @ 2 million, the desire to work and indeed the effectiveness both decline.

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: PathtoFIRE on February 24, 2017, 02:12:52 PM
Congrats on reaching 2, and looking forward to seeing you hit 3.  We are also on the race to 3, having just crossed over to 1 literally today (at least for the first time, who knows how many times we'll zigzag in the next few years).
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on February 26, 2017, 12:34:07 PM
Best part about being a Mustacian between $2M and $3M is that no one knows.
Mustacians in this savings bracket don't stick out as presenting an image of being "rich."
Most people who display the image of being rich really are living paycheck to paycheck.

A guy bought in iPhone 5 off me via Craigslist about a month ago. He was in the US from Costa Rica in order to skydive at 7 different locations. He drove a 1990s VW van (not old enough to have value and definitely not running well). He looked like a 50 year old hippy, yet I would wager that he is more financially independent than most of my gold-collar friends.

Stealth wealth is the place for me.  I'm just not comfortable letting people know my NW has crested 2M.  Since we still work it doesn't show much.  I shop at the dollar store and Goodwill.   My vehicle is 9 years old.  We haven't moved out of the home we bought in 1992.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on April 21, 2017, 07:35:40 AM
Best part about being a Mustacian between $2M and $3M is that no one knows.
Mustacians in this savings bracket don't stick out as presenting an image of being "rich."
Most people who display the image of being rich really are living paycheck to paycheck.

A guy bought in iPhone 5 off me via Craigslist about a month ago. He was in the US from Costa Rica in order to skydive at 7 different locations. He drove a 1990s VW van (not old enough to have value and definitely not running well). He looked like a 50 year old hippy, yet I would wager that he is more financially independent than most of my gold-collar friends.

Stealth wealth is the place for me.  I'm just not comfortable letting people know my NW has crested 2M.  Since we still work it doesn't show much.  I shop at the dollar store and Goodwill.   My vehicle is 9 years old.  We haven't moved out of the home we bought in 1992.


Me too!  While we are not quite at 2M yet ( see the other thread ), we should be there soon.

Stealth wealth is awesome.  We also stayed in our original home in a modest neighborhood.  I really don't feel the need to do the 'keeping up with the Joneses' thing like so many are starting to do again.  I can guarantee you that many who do that are only presenting an image.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Koogie on April 21, 2017, 07:44:34 AM
Just crested into this bracket recently on the back of the market surge (based on our liquid portfolio only).  I have a feeling we'll dip into and out of this bracket over time based on returns.  Have no real plans to hit 3MM (since we are both already semi-RE)   but you never know what the future holds.
 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on April 21, 2017, 01:17:18 PM
I'm probably working till about June 2019.  I want to say I retired at 50 and that's the last month to make the claim.   Gives us time to fund two more rounds of 401ks and Roth IRAs.  Will start HSA then as well.  Our youngest is headed to trade school and should finish up about then.  Gives me time to hike the AT SOBO south from Maine.   Going to use vacation time to start working north from GA early 2019 for a few hundred miles. 
Then not sure presently where we go.  Hope to spend about half of what the 2M will yield so it can grow. Will probably find work if it dips below 2M for very long.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: markbike528CBX on April 21, 2017, 01:53:16 PM
Replying to sneak in by cheating (counting house equity for this purpose).
1.9M liquid (90% equities) and net house equity  ~0.3M.

I'm  hoping to be in honestly (liquid NW only) soon.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on April 21, 2017, 09:01:19 PM
Replying to sneak in by cheating (counting house equity for this purpose).
1.9M liquid (90% equities) and net house equity  ~0.3M.

I'm  hoping to be in honestly (liquid NW only) soon.

Lots of us will be legitimate soon.  We'll have the option of hanging out with those slouches on the 1M to 2M thread till then.  ;)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on April 21, 2017, 09:03:27 PM
Just crested into this bracket recently on the back of the market surge (based on our liquid portfolio only).  I have a feeling we'll dip into and out of this bracket over time based on returns.  Have no real plans to hit 3MM (since we are both already semi-RE)   but you never know what the future holds.

You made it this far I'd think 3M is on autopilot.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on April 21, 2017, 09:05:12 PM
Best part about being a Mustacian between $2M and $3M is that no one knows.
Mustacians in this savings bracket don't stick out as presenting an image of being "rich."
Most people who display the image of being rich really are living paycheck to paycheck.

A guy bought in iPhone 5 off me via Craigslist about a month ago. He was in the US from Costa Rica in order to skydive at 7 different locations. He drove a 1990s VW van (not old enough to have value and definitely not running well). He looked like a 50 year old hippy, yet I would wager that he is more financially independent than most of my gold-collar friends.

Stealth wealth is the place for me.  I'm just not comfortable letting people know my NW has crested 2M.  Since we still work it doesn't show much.  I shop at the dollar store and Goodwill.   My vehicle is 9 years old.  We haven't moved out of the home we bought in 1992.


Me too!  While we are not quite at 2M yet ( see the other thread ), we should be there soon.

Stealth wealth is awesome.  We also stayed in our original home in a modest neighborhood.  I really don't feel the need to do the 'keeping up with the Joneses' thing like so many are starting to do again.  I can guarantee you that many who do that are only presenting an image.
 
Hard to believe it's really real at times.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: begood on May 04, 2017, 02:41:19 PM
*waves* Hi! I'm coming over from the Race to $1M to $2M thread. Copied my intro info from over there:

Quote
Our net worth is at 2.3 right now. My husband maxes out his 403(b), which, including maxing catch-up contributions  and the employer match, added up to $30.5K last year. But it read as "noise" (redacted poorly worded phrasing) didn't affect our  overall net worth much. The additions we are making don't make a big difference when the market goes up, and they won't make a big difference when the market goes down.

We live in provided housing at my husband's job, and we don't want to be landlords, so we haven't had real estate since we lost $80K on the sale of our house in 2009. We have REITs but no equity. So aside from 7% we keep in money market accounts and a CD because if my husband lost his job, we'd lose both his income and housing, our entire stache is out there in "Return is Not Guaranteed Land", which feels darker and more foreboding the older I get.

We made our first million by saving in a corporate culture where most of our peers spent. The climb to the second million got a huge boost with a $300K inheritance in 2014. But now I don't see a way to 3 or 4, so I would love to hear more from libertarian4321 about why those are easier/inevitable. Frankly, I'm more worried about that value dropping in half than I am convinced it will double.

Besides not having any home equity, the looming truth of eventual COLLEGE COSTS is starting to set in. I've got a bright, artistic, introverted, straight-As ninth grader who to date has absolutely tanked her standardized tests and would flounder in a big university environment. So we are looking at small liberal arts colleges (SLAC) that cost umpteen dollars a year.

And the whole healthcare thing is literally giving me headache today. Aging is a preexisting condition - we're all going to get it eventually. Even at 52, I'm basically uninsurable on the open market. Do we all just hope we can keep jobs with health insurance?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on May 04, 2017, 02:50:12 PM
*waves* Hi! I'm coming over from the Race to $1M to $2M thread. Copied my intro info from over there:

Quote
Our net worth is at 2.3 right now. My husband maxes out his 403(b), which, including maxing catch-up contributions  and the employer match, added up to $30.5K last year. But it read as "noise" (redacted poorly worded phrasing) didn't affect our  overall net worth much. The additions we are making don't make a big difference when the market goes up, and they won't make a big difference when the market goes down.

We live in provided housing at my husband's job, and we don't want to be landlords, so we haven't had real estate since we lost $80K on the sale of our house in 2009. We have REITs but no equity. So aside from 7% we keep in money market accounts and a CD because if my husband lost his job, we'd lose both his income and housing, our entire stache is out there in "Return is Not Guaranteed Land", which feels darker and more foreboding the older I get.

We made our first million by saving in a corporate culture where most of our peers spent. The climb to the second million got a huge boost with a $300K inheritance in 2014. But now I don't see a way to 3 or 4, so I would love to hear more from libertarian4321 about why those are easier/inevitable. Frankly, I'm more worried about that value dropping in half than I am convinced it will double.

Besides not having any home equity, the looming truth of eventual COLLEGE COSTS is starting to set in. I've got a bright, artistic, introverted, straight-As ninth grader who to date has absolutely tanked her standardized tests and would flounder in a big university environment. So we are looking at small liberal arts colleges (SLAC) that cost umpteen dollars a year.

And the whole healthcare thing is literally giving me headache today. Aging is a preexisting condition - we're all going to get it eventually. Even at 52, I'm basically uninsurable on the open market. Do we all just hope we can keep jobs with health insurance?

Us too!  Our 12th grader does great in school but also has not-so-great standardized test scores.  It was the same way with my wife and I.  Frankly, I think standardized tests are a complete joke ( because I'm not good at them..I'm sure ).  She is going to go to our in-state university though.  However, even that can really add up.

And I'm in the same boat with the healthcare issues.  Our family DOES have someone with a 'pre-existing'' condition and it is downright scary to think what might happen.  Folks only seem to be against all of these 'pre-existing' condition protections until it happens to them or someone in their family.  I have seen it time and time again.  It just boggles my mind...


Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: markbike528CBX on May 04, 2017, 02:57:00 PM
.............. So we are looking at small liberal arts colleges (SLAC) that cost umpteen dollars a year.

While your situation might be different, I note that there are scholarships and the like out there, sometimes linked to a specific school and situation (see below).  I found Juniata College to be affordable, a great school (as opposed to a big frat house party).   I mention it since your location is Middle-Atlantic.

When I visited (34 years ago) I was given a tour by a full professor of chemistry, who explained Nuclear Magnetic Resonance in a single, simple sentence.  That professor is finally slimming down his hours this year.  Going back for 30th reunion this year.


 One of the few scholarships for left-handed students is the Frederick and Mary F. Beckley Scholarship, which was created in 1979 at Juniata College in Pennsylvania. Worth $1,000 to $1,500 annually, this scholarship is reserved for lefties who have completed at least their freshman year at Juniata with top academic achievement above the 3.3 GPA mark and campus leadership. Applications must include two personal references, proof of financial need, and certification of grades.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: begood on May 04, 2017, 03:00:47 PM
.............. So we are looking at small liberal arts colleges (SLAC) that cost umpteen dollars a year.

While your situation might be different, I note that there are scholarships and the like out there, sometimes linked to a specific school and situation (see below).  I found Juniata College to be affordable, a great school (as opposed to a big frat house party).   I mention it since your location is Middle-Atlantic.

When I visited (34 years ago) I was given a tour by a full professor of chemistry, who explained Nuclear Magnetic Resonance in a single, simple sentence.  That professor is finally slimming down his hours this year.  Going back for 30th reunion this year.


 One of the few scholarships for left-handed students is the Frederick and Mary F. Beckley Scholarship, which was created in 1979 at Juniata College in Pennsylvania. Worth $1,000 to $1,500 annually, this scholarship is reserved for lefties who have completed at least their freshman year at Juniata with top academic achievement above the 3.3 GPA mark and campus leadership. Applications must include two personal references, proof of financial need, and certification of grades.

Thanks for that info on Juniata, markbike528CBX. As luck would have it, my daughter is a leftie! However, we will not have "proof of financial need", since we're here on this thread. :)

We're going to look at test-optional schools. She should have a pretty darn good art portfolio to offer up instead of SAT scores, and my understanding is that a lot of colleges do just sort of wave their hands and "grant" lower tuition than the sticker price, at least once you're down below the Top 50 in the rankings.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: PathtoFIRE on May 05, 2017, 09:39:08 AM
There are a number of smaller colleges that provide free tuition. I did a google search, and the number vary, here is one of the top links, but take a look yourself
http://www.valuecolleges.com/top-25-tuition-free-colleges/
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on May 05, 2017, 02:19:02 PM
I think you'll indeed find that the lower ranked a school, the more merit aid your daughter will attract.  My son nearly flunked out freshman and sophomore year of high school and spent junior and senior years bringing his overall gpa slightly above average.  He went to a lower ranking technical private college his first year and received 25% of total cost in merit aid.  We get zip through FAFSA. 

It's definately tough.  Have a job and you make too much (anything above the government's official poverty level is "available to pay for college") but retire early and with health insurance so up in the air, how do you pay for that?

I've got one half way through college and another who is a freshman in high school.  With both of them, there is the expectation that they're not just "going to college".  If there is not a well defined career from the chosen major, I'll be funding plumbing or HVAC school.  The cost of a Lamborghini Huracan (what my older son's college costs.....no, really, the MSRP is a direct match) for an engineering degree I can handle.  For an underwater basket weaving degree?  Nope.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: begood on May 05, 2017, 02:46:00 PM
I hear you, Car Jack. I feel like things are different now. When I went to college in the early 1980s, college was when you figured out what you wanted to do with your life. Now we expect high school kids to know by the time they pick a college, so that college can match their career goal.

I'm hoping my daughter doesn't get star-struck at the idea of an art college. I'd much much rather she go to a LAC and double major - art and business, art and economics, graphic design and marketing, or major/minor. I have always told her that she IS an artist, but that vocation and avocation are not always the same thing, and she does need to be able to support herself.

But life is long and people change and grow. My dad didn't start his life's work until 40. He didn't start college until age 31, after serving in WWII. He didn't know as a soldier from a small mill town in New Jersey that he'd end up dean of a top journalism school twenty-five years later.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on May 07, 2017, 08:08:36 AM
Art and business is a good match.  I played in our church band for several years and our best singer was a music college grad.  Between services, she lamented that she didn't take at least music business, rather than just music performance because at 25, she had no choice but to live in her parents basement.

Another example I'll throw out there is my sister.  She received and art degree but finding no jobs in art, took a legal admin type course.  She's worked in law offices for many years doing the background work that law offices do.  She still does her art for fun (we have great paintings of our cats) but makes no money from it.

Changing majors can be ok.  My older son did this.  He was in a computer engineering program and just didn't intuitively get it.  I'm a EE and noticed his inability to look at a circuit and figure out generally what it did.  He could go through the 9 pages of math and come up with the equation defining it but not understand what's going on.  He switched to civil engineering where things made much more sense.  This was a great thing to realize.  Sure, some credits were somewhat lost but he didn't end up at the end of a Bachelors degree with an occupation that he would grow to hate. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on May 07, 2017, 11:35:26 AM
I thought I might throw a marker in here.

I hope I don't fall to the temptation to actively join the race to $3M, but fear I might.

Firstly, our progress thus far.....

In March we passed $2.5M AUD. not so long ago that would have been $2.5M USD, but not so anymore. I should pass $2M USD at some point this year, all going to plan.

We are currently renting, but do own 2 houses which are rented out, one was our former home before we moved Overseas for work. We are not sure whether we will move back there or sell. Currently the plan is to sell and buy something significantly cheaper. The other place was bought purely as a rental. We do plan on buying a home at some point, so our invested NW will take a hit at some point.

So with financial introductions done, back to the fear that I might be tempted to race to $3M USD.....

.... are you ready for some MMM blasphemy.... :-O

Whilst $2.5M is a lot of money, i am a little tempted with the thought that if I don't touch that money, then 10 years from now it will most likely be worth $5 million, and 20 years from now, when I would be a normal retirement age, it could potentially be worth $10 million.

$10 million is a crazy amount of money!!!!.... even if it is only Aussie dollars.

I struggle to imagine how we could possibly spend $500,000 a year. I certainly can't even fathom being worth $10 million, but somehow we have put ourselves in a position where, even if we never save another cent, we could end up very wealthy with a NW of $10 million. Maybe our mustachian selves will need a makeover. Maybe we will buy a second car. Lol.

So where to from here.....

My DW is a school teacher and loves her job. She is still in her 30s (just) with no plans of retiring. She wants to work maybe 6 months a year once I stop work. Her part time wage From 6 months/ year of work will cover about 60% of our expenses, so for us to keep piling up money by not touching the stash at all, I would only need to find something that pays a fraction of what I currently earn. I definitely don't want to work more than 6 months a year, but would definitely contemplate some form of contract/ seasonal work, maybe a few company directorships or something like that.

So plan A is to FIRE in 2 years once we hit $3M AUD in net worth (2.25M USD). We will then take a long trip, maybe a year or so and relocate back to Australia..... we can then live quite a spendypants FIRED life with no more work.

Plan G (for greedy) is the same as plan A, but once we get back to Oz we seek to cover our costs through part time work, and watch our NW climb over time to $5M, and maybe even $10M in the extreme case.

I don't think we will be able to make a decision until after I pull the pin on the current job 2 years from now. Counting down the days to our first FIRE.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on May 07, 2017, 11:57:14 PM
One word, itchyfeet: philanthropy.

PTF. If I include the value of DH's defined benefit pension, we're there. I'm not counting our paid-for 1.3M home or the equity in our (lightly mortgaged) SFH rental properties. We're not racing anymore though, just cruising along, enjoying life, and the scenery, and smelling the roses.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: begood on May 08, 2017, 05:23:11 AM
One word, itchyfeet: philanthropy.

PTF. If I include the value of DH's defined benefit pension, we're there. I'm not counting our paid-for 1.3M home or the equity in our (lightly mortgaged) SFH rental properties. We're not racing anymore though, just cruising along, enjoying life, and the scenery, and smelling the roses.

Dicey, if you don't mind my asking, how do you assign a value to your husband's defined benefit pension? My husband should get about $27K/year (flat,non-COLA'd, 50% joint survivor) starting in 13 years. He worked for the MNC (multinational corporation) for 20 years, then moved on to a second career at age 43. He could take the pension earlier, but the amount would drop precipitously, so we hope to wait until he's 65. The pension is insured by PBGC.

We also have the option of retiree health insurance through the company, but would have to pay both the employer and employee amounts, currently $18K/year. In the current unstable environment, that might be the only way I could get health insurance at all if my husband lost his job. Expensive as it would be, at least it is an option we can keep in our back pocket.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on May 08, 2017, 07:44:20 AM
Caught the spread sheet up to date since the new values of my savings bonds have clicked over for May.  Now at $2.1M.

I think I'm also ultra conservative on my numbers.  I have a very small pension coming where I could take $53k lump sum right now if I wanted (I left the job in 1993) and do not include it in any of my numbers.  I probably should count it but I guess I always look for any downside that might happen.  I'm happy that the pension is at Fidelity now (the original company no longer exists). 

I love doing mouse nuts kinda things.  My insurance was due so I went online and made 3 payments.  First 2 were with new cards that I had to get the spend to collect the bonus.  Then I overpaid the thing with my double cash.  Just got an overpayment check Friday, so there's $20 in undeserved points that I'm happy to keep.  :D
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Laura33 on May 08, 2017, 08:00:20 AM
Dicey, if you don't mind my asking, how do you assign a value to your husband's defined benefit pension? My husband should get about $27K/year (flat,non-COLA'd, 50% joint survivor) starting in 13 years.

Well, you didn't ask me :-), but what I do is divide by .04, to figure how how much the "'stache-equivalent" amount is.  E.g., to take out $27K/yr at the 4% rule, I'd need $675K.  Now, that is the 'stache-equivalent in 13 years, when he is eligible for that $27K/yr.  So if you want the current value of that, you could present-value it back to today's dollars.  But personally, I don't care that much -- I just like to know that, hey, in 13 years, I will have the equivalent of $675K more in my 'stache. 

But actually, even that is bass-ackwards, because the whole point of the 'stache is to throw off income -- so when you already know the income, you don't even need to calculate an equivalent 'stache value.  So in your case, I'd just knock the $27K off of the annual income you need, and then figure out how much else you need to save to cover the delta.  E.g., I need $40K/yr, I have $27K/yr already guaranteed, so my delta is $13K/yr.  Ergo, 4% rule, I need $13K x 25 = $325K more in my 'stache in 13 years. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: begood on May 08, 2017, 08:09:53 AM
Dicey, if you don't mind my asking, how do you assign a value to your husband's defined benefit pension? My husband should get about $27K/year (flat,non-COLA'd, 50% joint survivor) starting in 13 years.

Well, you didn't ask me :-), but what I do is divide by .04, to figure how how much the "'stache-equivalent" amount is.  E.g., to take out $27K/yr at the 4% rule, I'd need $675K.  Now, that is the 'stache-equivalent in 13 years, when he is eligible for that $27K/yr.  So if you want the current value of that, you could present-value it back to today's dollars.  But personally, I don't care that much -- I just like to know that, hey, in 13 years, I will have the equivalent of $675K more in my 'stache. 

But actually, even that is bass-ackwards, because the whole point of the 'stache is to throw off income -- so when you already know the income, you don't even need to calculate an equivalent 'stache value.  So in your case, I'd just knock the $27K off of the annual income you need, and then figure out how much else you need to save to cover the delta.  E.g., I need $40K/yr, I have $27K/yr already guaranteed, so my delta is $13K/yr.  Ergo, 4% rule, I need $13K x 25 = $325K more in my 'stache in 13 years.

Laura33, I could hug you! Thank you for laying it all out so clearly for me. That's pretty awesome. And it reassures me that we probably did the right thing not taking a lump sum when it was offered a couple of years ago, since it was less than 1/3 of the equation you posted above. I realize we're rolling the dice on the annuity being what's promised. The pension is insured with PBGC, so he should get something.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on May 08, 2017, 08:34:10 AM
I have a small defined benefit pension entitlement as well from 55, that will be CPI adjusted, with 50% to be paid to DW after I croak.

I value it similar to you. Ie: Entitlement in today's $ x 25, inflated forward 10 years at 3% inflation and discounted at 7%.

Being a spreadsheet nerd, the thing I like about the inflating/ discounting is that every month I unwind the inflation/discount by another month, and my stash grows :-)

I use a multiple of 25x to honor the 4% rule, but in the context of SWRs the pension is worth more, because it's not subject to sequence of returns risk, so you could prob even user a higher multiple, as you could technically take a riskier view on your remaining stash thanks to the pension. There is 100% certainty my pension will last 30, 40 or 50 years. However long I live post 55. Just as long as the Govt doesn't go bankrupt.

I do agree that once I am receiving the pension, the most correct way to factor in its value into planning is just to reduce the expenditure to be covered by the "stash" by the amount of the pension. But for today, for NW calculations, I like to assign a value to it. It makes me feel closer to my goal.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: wannabe-stache on May 16, 2017, 01:50:57 PM
I paid off my house about 15 years ago.  Back then, I was an overly cautious investor, having bought company stock during the '87 selloff.  So paying off debt and the mortgage was the only ways I invested.

There's nothing wrong with tracking net worth and using that number for goals to attain.  I constantly change my goals once one is reached.  I had the $2M goal for quite a while for investments only.  Then it was to hit $1M within just my rollover IRA (not quite there).  When I hit that, I'll set some new, short term, attainable, arbitrary goal.  I've actually got one small goal in my Vanguard account to get back to zero.  It's been in developed international for about 2 years and is still under water.  I'm $2900 from getting to zero on a $250k account.

I still sweat the small stuff.  From the tradeline thread, I read about low balance forgiveness and tried it on several of my cards.  $0.98 forgiven on Barclays and $1.96 forgiven on discover.  Sounds like mouse nuts but free money is free money.  I showed my wife the Discover statement which also gave me $0.10 in rewards because I spent that $1.96 on gas, which is a 5% category this quarter.  And yah.....I pick up pennies on the sidewalk.

i am curious.  at what point do you loosen up?  when you have $3M, will you be "ok" spending $ on going out to eat?  buying a nice bottle of wine? etc.?

i am new to this line of thinking.  i have always been a big saver but i had jobs that allowed me to spend as well.  i have approx. $1M of savings (my wife has an additional $500K) and we are only 37 and 33 respectively. i suppose i could have saved more but i wouldn't trade our trips to greece or israel or italy for anything.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on May 16, 2017, 05:59:41 PM
i am curious.  at what point do you loosen up?  when you have $3M, will you be "ok" spending $ on going out to eat?  buying a nice bottle of wine? etc.?

i am new to this line of thinking.  i have always been a big saver but i had jobs that allowed me to spend as well.  i have approx. $1M of savings (my wife has an additional $500K) and we are only 37 and 33 respectively. i suppose i could have saved more but i wouldn't trade our trips to greece or israel or italy for anything.

So, that's something that most people have to answer for themselves.  I have not been a model Mustachian by any means.  I drive a Wrangler, I used to own a Racecar and a Cobra replica and then a Lotus Elise.  I've owned an E30 M3.  I go to lunch everyday at work (Subway).  Wife and I don't drink so we've likely saved lots of money there.  But we watch our money.  I do nearly all of our car repairs (my garage has a lift and just about any tool you could name......remember I had a racecar).  We're older parents (1st born when I was 40, second I was 44) so we still have one in college and one in high school.  I'm figuring that at 2.5M, I'm going to be "fine".  We believe in providing the best education we can for the kids so, yah....I make too much to get financial aid and the bill is $60k a year.  That's fine.  We won't go to Europe until the second is at least in college. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on May 16, 2017, 09:18:59 PM
We're going to Puerto Vallarta Saturday for a week of vacation.   I'm seriously thinking of expatriating in a few years.   Mexico is a possibility, but there are many possibilities. I'm working at least two more years to keep health care for my kids.  Will likely keep citizenship, just move residential status to Florida maybe.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on May 18, 2017, 01:23:42 AM
Dicey, if you don't mind my asking, how do you assign a value to your husband's defined benefit pension? My husband should get about $27K/year (flat,non-COLA'd, 50% joint survivor) starting in 13 years.

Well, you didn't ask me :-), but what I do is divide by .04, to figure how how much the "'stache-equivalent" amount is.  E.g., to take out $27K/yr at the 4% rule, I'd need $675K.  Now, that is the 'stache-equivalent in 13 years, when he is eligible for that $27K/yr.  So if you want the current value of that, you could present-value it back to today's dollars.  But personally, I don't care that much -- I just like to know that, hey, in 13 years, I will have the equivalent of $675K more in my 'stache. 

But actually, even that is bass-ackwards, because the whole point of the 'stache is to throw off income -- so when you already know the income, you don't even need to calculate an equivalent 'stache value.  So in your case, I'd just knock the $27K off of the annual income you need, and then figure out how much else you need to save to cover the delta.  E.g., I need $40K/yr, I have $27K/yr already guaranteed, so my delta is $13K/yr.  Ergo, 4% rule, I need $13K x 25 = $325K more in my 'stache in 13 years.

Laura33, I could hug you! Thank you for laying it all out so clearly for me. That's pretty awesome. And it reassures me that we probably did the right thing not taking a lump sum when it was offered a couple of years ago, since it was less than 1/3 of the equation you posted above. I realize we're rolling the dice on the annuity being what's promised. The pension is insured with PBGC, so he should get something.
More hugs for Laura33 then, because I have no idea. We don't count it that specifically. This may sound weird, but here's why. Our house and cars are paid for, we have three rental properties, we have a boatload of money in equities, a shit-ton of money in cash waiting for whatever we decide to do with it next, and DH is still working, so we're not tapping any of it yet. I've never run a Fire Calc or whatever it's called. I don't use YNAB or whatever the latest budgeting tool is. All we ever did was spend less than we earned and tried to invest the difference wisely. Now, however you slice it, we'll have enough. I mentioned on another thread today that DH's pension plus our SS estimates add up to more than we earn now. We're gonna be fine, so why spend too much time doing endless calculations?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on May 18, 2017, 11:36:13 AM
Dicey, if you don't mind my asking, how do you assign a value to your husband's defined benefit pension? My husband should get about $27K/year (flat,non-COLA'd, 50% joint survivor) starting in 13 years.

Well, you didn't ask me :-), but what I do is divide by .04, to figure how how much the "'stache-equivalent" amount is.  E.g., to take out $27K/yr at the 4% rule, I'd need $675K.  Now, that is the 'stache-equivalent in 13 years, when he is eligible for that $27K/yr.  So if you want the current value of that, you could present-value it back to today's dollars.  But personally, I don't care that much -- I just like to know that, hey, in 13 years, I will have the equivalent of $675K more in my 'stache. 

But actually, even that is bass-ackwards, because the whole point of the 'stache is to throw off income -- so when you already know the income, you don't even need to calculate an equivalent 'stache value.  So in your case, I'd just knock the $27K off of the annual income you need, and then figure out how much else you need to save to cover the delta.  E.g., I need $40K/yr, I have $27K/yr already guaranteed, so my delta is $13K/yr.  Ergo, 4% rule, I need $13K x 25 = $325K more in my 'stache in 13 years.

Laura33, I could hug you! Thank you for laying it all out so clearly for me. That's pretty awesome. And it reassures me that we probably did the right thing not taking a lump sum when it was offered a couple of years ago, since it was less than 1/3 of the equation you posted above. I realize we're rolling the dice on the annuity being what's promised. The pension is insured with PBGC, so he should get something.
More hugs for Laura33 then, because I have no idea. We don't count it that specifically. This may sound weird, but here's why. Our house and cars are paid for, we have three rental properties, we have a boatload of money in equities, a shit-ton of money in cash waiting for whatever we decide to do with it next, and DH is still working, so we're not tapping any of it yet. I've never run a Fire Calc or whatever it's called. I don't use YNAB or whatever the latest budgeting tool is. All we ever did was spend less than we earned and tried to invest the difference wisely. Now, however you slice it, we'll have enough. I mentioned on another thread today that DH's pension plus our SS estimates add up to more than we earn now. We're gonna be fine, so why spend too much time doing endless calculations?

Or..... why keep working?!!! :-)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on May 26, 2017, 10:40:17 PM
Oh, hey, Itchyfeet! I've covered it before, so sometimes I skip details so as not to sound like an ol' broken record.

DH works because:

1. His mom has Alzheimer's and she lives with us. He likes to stay busy, so being trapped here would drive him nuts!
(Yeah, FIRE doesn't look a bit like what I imagined right now, but for me, it still beats the hell out of working.)

2. He has 17 out of 20 years needed to hit the sweet spot for his Defined Benefit Pension. Why give that up?

3. He loves his job, has every other Friday off, gets every holiday paid, earns tons of vacation time and has months and months of accrued sick time accumulated. His office is 3.5 blocks from our house. On workdays, we get up early, I make his breakfast, pack his lunch while he eats, and we walk to work together at 5:45. Then I come home and go back to sleep :-)

4. Our current health care coverage has no premiums, no deductibles and tiny co-pays. At 20 years of service, we get $550/month for healthcare, AND we get to stay on the company's healthcare plan at the retiree rate. This is huge. I've had cancer and he obviously has Alzheimer's in the family tree, so to stay on the company's plan will save a boatload of money in healthcare costs for the rest of our lives.

It just wouldn't be frugal or even sensible to leave so much on the table.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on May 26, 2017, 11:41:21 PM
Hey Dicey. Sorry to make you cover old ground again.

You never know,  might do 3 more years myself. We are taking 6 month at a time....
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on May 28, 2017, 01:48:24 PM
Oh, hey, Itchyfeet! I've covered it before, so sometimes I skip details so as not to sound like an ol' broken record.

DH works because:

1. His mom has Alzheimer's and she lives with us. He likes to stay busy, so being trapped here would drive him nuts!
(Yeah, FIRE doesn't look a bit like what I imagined right now, but for me, it still beats the hell out of working.)

2. He has 17 out of 20 years needed to hit the sweet spot for his Defined Benefit Pension. Why give that up?

3. He loves his job, has every other Friday off, gets every holiday paid, earns tons of vacation time and has months and months of accrued sick time accumulated. His office is 3.5 blocks from our house. On workdays, we get up early, I make his breakfast, pack his lunch while he eats, and we walk to work together at 5:45. Then I come home and go back to sleep :-)

4. Our current health care coverage has no premiums, no deductibles and tiny co-pays. At 20 years of service, we get $550/month for healthcare, AND we get to stay on the company's healthcare plan at the retiree rate. This is huge. I've had cancer and he obviously has Alzheimer's in the family tree, so to stay on the company's plan will save a boatload of money in healthcare costs for the rest of our lives.

It just wouldn't be frugal or even sensible to leave so much on the table.

Pensions are a great reason to work a few more years, if you are lucky enough to have one.  People sometimes don't realize what an incredible asset a defined pension can be.  Too bad fewer and fewer people will have them as time goes on.



Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on May 29, 2017, 01:52:25 AM
You're right, farmecologist.

In his late thirties, DH realized he'd earned a lot of money as a painting contractor,  but didn't have much to show for it. He did his research and applied for his current position, specifically for the retirement benefits. He took a huge pay cut at first. To bridge the gap, he continued painting on the side, which is how we met in 2001. He was married to his high school sweetheart and they had two kids. Fast forward eleven years. I called him to paint my house again. He was a widower by then. We started talking. He painted my house. We kept talking and got married three months later. He doesn't do side jobs much these days, 'cause together we're FI. Instead of working for others on the side, we BRRR houses for fun.

As a bonus, his company is about as solid as they come, so the likelihood of collecting said pension is quite high. Wouldn't derail us if it wasn't all that was promised, but let's hope we never have to find out. We have charitable plans for our excess retirement income.

Hey Dicey. Sorry to make you cover old ground again.

You never know,  might do 3 more years myself. We are taking 6 month at a time....
Thank you, but no apology is necessary, Itchyfeet!

Six months at a time sounds like an excellent plan.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: markbike528CBX on June 09, 2017, 05:04:44 PM
Replying to sneak in by cheating (counting house equity for this purpose).
1.9M liquid (90% equities) and net house equity  ~0.3M.

I'm  hoping to be in honestly (liquid NW only) soon.

I'm now in the "race" fair and square (>$2M liquid), although I'm think I'll be stepping out of the race and let the gains to heavy lifting (they already are) soon.   Hope you all pass me by and wave on your way to $3M.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on June 09, 2017, 07:34:57 PM
Replying to sneak in by cheating (counting house equity for this purpose).
1.9M liquid (90% equities) and net house equity  ~0.3M.

I'm  hoping to be in honestly (liquid NW only) soon.

I'm now in the "race" fair and square (>$2M liquid), although I'm think I'll be stepping out of the race and let the gains to heavy lifting (they already are) soon.   Hope you all pass me by and wave on your way to $3M.

Just hop on and draft behind us.  Makes us faster too.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on June 12, 2017, 06:41:21 PM
Congrats on the new milestone!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on June 30, 2017, 07:41:05 AM
KABOOM!!!

Just tallied up my 30 June numbers and thanks to a weaker USD I have crossed the $2M USD of Net Worth.

Sweet 😁
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: markbike528CBX on June 30, 2017, 09:05:58 AM
I'm now in the "race" fair and square (>$2M liquid), although I'm think I'll be stepping out of the race and let the gains to heavy lifting (they already are) soon.   Hope you all pass me by and wave on your way to $3M.

Just hop on and draft behind us.  Makes us faster too.

I wouldn't have thought of that car racing analogy on a financial forum, but it makes sense.
Just reading the forum gives one lots of ideas to add speed to FIRE. Posting helps me think through my logic.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on June 30, 2017, 11:14:49 AM
I was thinking or bicycle racing when I wrote that but car racing works too.  Either way, a bunch of us moving along help each other by staying in a close pack.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on July 07, 2017, 02:08:33 AM
I'm so ready to post here with 2M liquid, NW I'm pretty legit.   Y'all are the cool kids!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Mr Griz on July 09, 2017, 07:46:22 PM
Just checked Personal Capital and it shows us at $2.25M, not including the mortgage-free house.

Sadly I didn't realize until recently that things were looking so good.  We've felt for several years that we were in good shape but never had an accounting of all our various IRA's, 401k's and cash accounts until recently.  I stumbled across jlcollinsnh a couple of months ago and that led to MMM and a more focused way of looking at finances.  DW retired a few years ago and I plan to bail this time next year.  (I have some deferred incentive compensation that will vest then).  In the meantime I'm consolidating everything into a couple of Vanguard accounts (one taxable, the other an IRA) and putting our excess cash to work.

The cool thing is that our two pensions should easily cover living expenses.  The 'stache should grow to $3M in a few years without any withdrawals.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on July 10, 2017, 01:22:14 AM
Contratulations Mr Griz. The world is now your playground :)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on July 16, 2017, 03:14:10 PM
I wasn't sure if I graduated to this group as our "liquid" includes $519k in pensions.. so assuming they are still there when we plan to start using them then liquid NW is $2.344M.

House (includes two rentals on the same property) I am guessing will net us $400k.. but it currently pays about $20k in rent so its hard to sell..:)

We are both RE'd now
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: SingleMomDebt on July 16, 2017, 05:27:14 PM
I wasn't sure if I graduated to this group as our "liquid" includes $519k in pensions.. so assuming they are still there when we plan to start using them then liquid NW is $2.344M.

House (includes two rentals on the same property) I am guessing will net us $400k.. but it currently pays about $20k in rent so its hard to sell..:)

We are both RE'd now

Congrats ExFB!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on July 16, 2017, 06:48:50 PM
I wasn't sure if I graduated to this group as our "liquid" includes $519k in pensions.. so assuming they are still there when we plan to start using them then liquid NW is $2.344M.

House (includes two rentals on the same property) I am guessing will net us $400k.. but it currently pays about $20k in rent so its hard to sell..:)

We are both RE'd now

Congrats ExFB!

Thanks Chip..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on July 21, 2017, 12:34:17 AM
Well done Exflyboy.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on August 02, 2017, 11:05:55 PM
This fantastic thread deserves to be at the top of the list.  Not near enough traffic here.  Bump.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on August 02, 2017, 11:30:01 PM
Haha Bateaux.

I think the issue is that this thread is almost the antithesis of MMM. If one is frugal why would you need more than $2M.

In any case, accumulating more than $2M either requires a lot of time or a very high income.

I would presume that most people who have accumulated more than $2M are already in there 50s, so not the core audience of MMM. Only a small percentage of MMM posters are doctors, lawyers, investment bankers, CEOs etc who could earn there way to $2M at a young age.

A few will have got very lucky with their finances (like me), by taking risks when young that paid off over the years.

I know that there are plenty of wealthy MMM posters, but most are FIRED and don't give a hoot about any race towards even greater wealth.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on August 03, 2017, 02:44:49 AM
Hmm we're FIRED yes.. in our 50's yes.. very high income, well did OK but averaged just over $100k.

We saved for 21 years and hit about $2.7m including the house.

Two hoots about making more? Heck I certainly want more.. but maybe I'm greedy :)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on August 03, 2017, 02:49:49 AM
Itchy feet I just read about your biking vacation.   Can't wait to do that.  Maybe we'll meet you guys in person out there soon.  My wife does her second Ironman next month.   All that training would be put to great use.  I'm 49 and have no plans to be working at 51.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on August 03, 2017, 03:31:46 AM
Hmm we're FIRED yes.. in our 50's yes.. very high income, well did OK but averaged just over $100k.

We saved for 21 years and hit about $2.7m including the house.

Two hoots about making more? Heck I certainly want more.. but maybe I'm greedy :)

Well done on amassing $2.7M. Obviously you are not too greedy having chosen FIRE over trying to race to $3.0M. I am sure in good time your $2.7M will grow beyond $3.0M even if it is financing your
Lives at the same time.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on August 03, 2017, 05:58:13 AM
Exflyboy I pretty much think that the 3 million number will come unless you do something to avoid it.  Most likely all of us who have breached 2 million NW will see 3 million at some point.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on August 03, 2017, 06:37:15 AM
Interested to see how this thread goes, but I'm on vacation right now...  Funny thing is, I'm 50k or more better off than when I started this trip, makes it tough to focus on being frugal!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: begood on August 03, 2017, 06:40:26 AM
Hmm we're FIRED yes.. in our 50's yes.. very high income, well did OK but averaged just over $100k.

We saved for 21 years and hit about $2.7m including the house.

Two hoots about making more? Heck I certainly want more.. but maybe I'm greedy :)

Well done on amassing $2.7M. Obviously you are not too greedy having chosen FIRE over trying to race to $3.0M. I am sure in good time your $2.7M will grow beyond $3.0M even if it is financing your
Lives at the same time.

We're in our early 50s, not FIREd (husband lives to work; only child still to edumacate through three years of high school and then college).

My husband's income didn't get above $100K until age 34, and then only for ten years. He started a second career for less than half the money but more than twice the personal satisfaction when he was 44. But we started off with some huge advantages: we married young (and stayed married); our parents paid for our college educations, so no student loans; our parents taught us the "save early and often" mantra AND gave us their old cars, so we started our adult lives without any debt at all. We never had to climb out of a hole.

And then we made four interstate moves with the company my husband worked for. He got raises with each new job, the relo packages were generous, and he banked his bonuses and ESOP. That all allowed us to make the choice twenty years later of moving out of corporate life to academic life without feeling like we would stunt our retirement or limit our daughter's education options.

We are nudging up against $2.5M this week.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Mr Griz on August 03, 2017, 07:04:36 AM
We didn't top $2M because it was a goal as such. It was the side effect of living below our means, avoiding debt, and having well-paying jobs that we liked. DW and I both have good defined benefit pensions that will easily cover our expenses when I retire next year. I expect the stache to be over $2.5M by then and it will just keep growing since we shouldn't need to tap into it. I recently reread MMM's post on giving away money. We're going to be looking at that soon I think.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on August 03, 2017, 07:48:15 AM
Congrats, EFB!

Your post reminded me that I don't count the value of DH's Defined Benefit Pension in our NW tally. Oh well, I'm not gonna start now, because that would kick me out of this thread, lol!.

In response to Itchyfeet, yes, we're in our fifties (me just barely, and on the wrong end), but we were never high wage earners. I hit $105k exactly once in my career and I was self-employed, so I paid a higher SS tax haircut. For reasons outlined upthread, DH still works. He earns about 80k a year and will probably work for 3 more years, to hit the max healthcare benefit.

We live in a HCOLA, so housing has always been disproportionately high, but owning RE is what made the biggest impact on our NW. Well, that and a dogged determination to RE dating back to my early twenties.

I also believe there are more "oldsters" around than you think. However, once FIRE hits and the shackles of work are removed, people take advantage of their freedom and fly away.

Regarding giving it away, per Mr Griz, I highly recommend it. DH and I joke that we tithe and then some to our community and we're having a blast doing it.
 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on August 03, 2017, 08:11:34 AM
I'm 60 and am an engineer.  Wife is a nurse.  She left work when our second son arrived.  I've made 6 figures since about 2000 but attribute our gains to the fact that I've always tried to either put off or not buy things.  I'm not above doing menial work and for years, while driving a racecar on weekends (I instructed so no track fees), I was picking up junk cars of the same make, usually for free for racecar spares.  I learned that I could sell the leftover parts between craigslist, racing sites and car marque sites and then the chassis got cut into pieces I could lift on my trailer and I'd go bring them for scrap money.  Anyways, I've always tried to live way below my means and that's my story.  Never had a title above Principal Engineer. 

We're not retired yet with one son in college (we're paying full boat at an expensive private college) and another with some learning issues who may cost us some significant money.  Once the older one graduates and has a job, I'll consider if I'll quit.  The wife would probably go back to work full time then to get the health insurance.  So I won't really retire early....I'll retire on time.  But I was 43 when our second son came, so we are very late with getting the kids set.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on August 03, 2017, 09:10:46 PM
You guys truly are incredible.   Thanks for the motivation. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: bigchrisb on August 03, 2017, 09:20:22 PM
I'm a little younger, 35, wife 37.  I'm an engineer (a theme?), wife a diplomat.  Fortunate to have higher than average incomes, a high savings rate and to have had a fairly aggressive investment strategy through boom markets. 

However, its a pretty simple formula, spend a lot less than you earn, invest the difference, keep at it for years.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on September 02, 2017, 09:51:19 AM
So our NW assuming our house is worth $400k (its a hobby farm with few comps so very hard to estimate) is now $2.766M.

Looking back at this thread I see the NW has grown by $22k since mid July.. or about 2k per week!

This includes the fact we have been in Europe for most of it and of course we're not working.

It seems sort of surreal seeing those number and causes me to think back to 2003 when we had just paid the house off and had very little other savings. My projections at that time showed a NW just North of a million bucks in about 10 years and I had a hard time believing that would really happen.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on September 02, 2017, 10:58:27 AM
Awesome work!

August was a month with zero growth for us, despite working and despite saving around 50% of our pay cheque. Still, 2017 has been good thus far.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: soccerluvof4 on September 03, 2017, 04:59:02 AM
I'm in the "race" from 2M to 3M slightly over half way not including a paid for house or any other assets.  I am going on 2.5 years Fire'd am 52 and MY DW is 48. Just about a year ago because of the Healthcare Scare with 4 kids she took a job with great benefits offset by not the greatest pay.  The big thing is for us is we save every dime she does make or use it specifically on home improvements as we have been redoing the 1970's raised ranch we bought when we downsized.  We have 4 kids one first year of college far out of state and another one leaving in January. Despite scholarships and 529s saved all our kids play select sports which are not cheap so trying to get our number to grow has been challenging but we have been doing it even after my withdrawals to live on. After this year I feel we should see a significant living cost drop so hopefully unless the market tanks and or? we will be there sooner than later. For me its more about the challenge than the need of money as well as preservation. I always am looking for ways to save but also reward ourselves with trips etc..
My DW liked being Fire'd and home with me but she loves her new job and the hours don't interfere. As many said when your going to work knowing you dont need the money its alot easier. Also we save more because though she is not a big spender I love the challenge more to save so I have find alot more way to do so by doing all the shopping and cooking as well as other things. Good luck to all the 3M chasers.  Like someone else mentioned I too would like to be in real-estate and investments but just never seem to find anything that makes sense but I keep looking.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on September 05, 2017, 02:29:50 AM
I feel inadequate in this thread, since I have to throw in personal real estate to belong.  Glad you're all here, gives me a target to aim for.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on September 05, 2017, 07:21:17 AM
I feel inadequate in this thread, since I have to through in personal real estate to belong.  Glad you're all here, gives me a target to aim for.
Don't feel that way, Bateaux! Zillow says my house is worth $1.3M and it's paid for. I count it. What I don't count is the value of DH's Defined Benefit Pension or our rental equity. Meh. There's so much in the pot that our income in retirement is going to exceed what we live on now, which is DH's salary. He has three years to go and I pulled the trigger nearly five years ago.

This makes me question the wisdom of filling tax-deferred accounts over taxable all these years. In some ways it seems like it might have been better to pay the taxes up front. FWP,  I know.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on September 05, 2017, 08:37:55 AM
Dicey,

This is definitely in the "good problem to have category".. You took the option to reduce your tax back then, which meant you could save more money.. yes?.. This also meant your stash grew faster.

So now you have arrived and have more money than you will ever need (yes I'm trying hard to believe this too.. But $5m would be extra safe..:)..)... Now you are faced with extra taxes and probably RMD's in retirement...So.. who cares.. You the man more tax.

I would argue the fact you got to FI sooner and now have a bigger pot which far outweigh the sadness of writing a check for extra taxes.

Yes I will be in this boat too.

Besides, your house is worth $1.3M.. well, when your ready you can sell it.. move to a tiny hovel like mine on nearly 6 acres and have almost a million tax free to spend on a huge party.

I think you have done great..:)

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on September 05, 2017, 09:22:08 PM
Don't mind me.  Still in my 40's and I'm being all winey pants about 2 million NW.  Facepunch, double facepunch.  It's all good. 

Actually had to meditate about buying a new leaf blower a few days ago.   It was  $150 at Lowes $165 with tax, found it for $125 at Amazon with no tax or shipping.  WTF!  I'm a dang millionaire, hell technically a multimillionaire on the lowest rung.  I'm debating a leaf blower purchase.   You people have ruined my life.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on September 05, 2017, 11:40:48 PM
Don't mind me.  Still in my 40's and I'm being all winey pants about 2 million NW.  Facepunch, double facepunch.  It's all good. 

Actually had to meditate about buying a new leaf blower a few days ago.   It was  $150 at Lowes $165 with tax, found it for $125 at Amazon with no tax or shipping.  WTF!  I'm a dang millionaire, hell technically a multimillionaire on the lowest rung.  I'm debating a leaf blower purchase.   You people have ruined my life.

Same here.. I'm trying to talk myself into buying a new+ bigger refrigerator.. The old one is 20 years old.. too small, doesn't match the rest of the kitchen appliances and the shelves have mostly collapsed!.. My NW is only $2.7M, WTF am I thinking.. I'll go broke if I keep throwing money around like this..:)

Or as was pointed out on my Journal ..."doesn't it feel weird to spend 3X as much on a fridge as you did your car?"...:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on September 06, 2017, 01:25:42 AM
Oh, but a new fridge will be so much more energy efficient,  it will pay for itself in no time!

Bateaux, you crack me up!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on September 06, 2017, 01:59:31 AM
Oh, but a new fridge will be so much more energy efficient,  it will pay for itself in no time!

Bateaux, you crack me up!

I did buy a new fridge.  Last one is 25 years old.  Still works, it's still in use in storage room.  Keep beer, water, etc in it.  Ice maker died years ago.   DW wanted fancy ice, water side by side.   Ice without trays is dang nice.  Since I've totally rebuilt and doubled the size of the kitchen everything is new.  Dish washer matches fridge.  Used it once.  Did all my own work.  I did buy the unfinished cabinets, prebuilt.   Still a work in progress.  I have about 19 offers for me to do a tavertine backslash like mine.  No way in hell.  That shit is a PITA!  MMM I'm not when it comes to carpentry, plumbing, electrical, floors.  I do mine but no way I'm hiring myself out.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on September 06, 2017, 07:12:12 AM
Don't mind me.  Still in my 40's and I'm being all winey pants about 2 million NW.  Facepunch, double facepunch.  It's all good. 

Actually had to meditate about buying a new leaf blower a few days ago.   It was  $150 at Lowes $165 with tax, found it for $125 at Amazon with no tax or shipping.  WTF!  I'm a dang millionaire, hell technically a multimillionaire on the lowest rung.  I'm debating a leaf blower purchase.   You people have ruined my life.

I also agonize over purchases like that.  However, I'm convinced that this frugal behavior is what got many of us where we are. 

I see so many people these days 'living it up' with all the 'toys'.  These are people who I'll pretty much guarantee can't afford it ( or have misguided priorities ).  Back before the crash of '08-'09 I saw exactly the same behavior.  People never learn!   

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on September 06, 2017, 10:00:08 AM
Absolutely its what got us to where we are.

I would have passed the "marshmellow test" and been asking if resisted even longer could I get extra marshmellows.. then sold the marshmellows to my friends for cash!

I like my pile of ever increasing marshmellows..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: markbike528CBX on September 06, 2017, 11:48:40 AM
........I also agonize over purchases like that.  However, I'm convinced that this frugal behavior is what got many of us where we are. snip..... 

I don't think of it as being frugal.   I think of it as being more efficient at our retail therapy.   

We get so much more mileage/time over agonizing than the impulsive buyer does.  It took me over two weeks to by some shorts on ebay.  Impulse buyer would have gotten 30seconds on the buy, and another 30 seconds unwrapping the package.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on September 06, 2017, 01:46:58 PM
Don't mind me.  Still in my 40's and I'm being all winey pants about 2 million NW.  Facepunch, double facepunch.  It's all good. 

Actually had to meditate about buying a new leaf blower a few days ago.   It was  $150 at Lowes $165 with tax, found it for $125 at Amazon with no tax or shipping.  WTF!  I'm a dang millionaire, hell technically a multimillionaire on the lowest rung.  I'm debating a leaf blower purchase.   You people have ruined my life.

I also agonize over purchases like that.  However, I'm convinced that this frugal behavior is what got many of us where we are. 

I see so many people these days 'living it up' with all the 'toys'.  These are people who I'll pretty much guarantee can't afford it ( or have misguided priorities ).  Back before the crash of '08-'09 I saw exactly the same behavior.  People never learn!

Well, I know it's not Mustachian, but when I started this journey the whole idea was to delay gratification, but ultimately gratify myself a little.  Now that I'm so far beyond my wildest dreams, I am letting myself enjoy the 'stache a whole lot more.  I even bought one of those 'robo-vacs' during Primeday ($185).  My wife was beside herself when I announced it (she similarly questioned my mental state when I gave her an Apple laptop after years of being anti-Apple) and we use it every day to keep up with the dog and cat fur.

In the whole scheme of things, bringing a little extra joy and life to our household is worth what now amounts to pocket change.  With that said, the bigger issue is reigning in complexity and clutter.  I still evaluate purchases based on if they will 'carry their weight' in terms of taking up space and time in my life.  This one worked out well but we bought a 'fancy refrigerator' (Exflyboy take note) that has most certainly not panned out, maybe just because it was a lemon.  Should've just bought a simple one that did it's main job well though...

Sadly, I've had to stay out of the 'Has the Forum Gone Soft (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/weird-fourm-coversations-has-the-community-gone-soft/msg1664204/#msg1664204)' thread :)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on September 08, 2017, 09:18:31 AM
I'd like some tips on how an apple laptop helps with dog and cat fur.  We have 2 semi-longhair (aka shedding) cats and a 10 year old powerbook.

Kidding, of course.  With the robovac, if it's the name brand, I've worked with the designers for years.  The thing they have not solved and you should be careful about is landmines from the dog.  The unit doesn't know how to handle it so it tends to pick some of it up and spread it all around the room, then come get some more and spread it around the room.

I have the same angst about buying stuff and have on many occasions looked at something and gone home to sleep on it, never to return to buy whatever it was.  Can't even think about how much I've saved vs just buying the thing.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on September 08, 2017, 09:29:59 AM
I've gone to the big box stores and sporting goods stores many times filling a cart with items.  I had a thousand dollars worth of reloading equipment mentally bought.  Pushed it round and round the giant Cabelas store.  Then put it back on the shelf.  Sometimes I don't even have to be in the store.  Academy sports just had an incredible deal on an AR15 rifle.  The best price I'd ever seen and it was 2nd Amendment tax free weekend here in Louisiana.   I carried that ad around for days.  Mentally I was in full possession of that rifle.  The ad expired, I tossed it in the trash and the cash, not the rifle is in my safe.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on September 08, 2017, 02:29:46 PM
Thanks for the tip CJ, my wife is home and only runs the vac while she's there, so we should be OK.  She quite enjoys Robbie's company as he roams around.

I spent years squeezing pennies so I'm not suddenly out blowing wads of cash, but I am loosening up.  Life is just getting too short for me to keep stressing out over some of these things (as well as stressing the marriage), especially since a little sharpening of the pencil around tax time, moving investments to lower fee versions of the same thing, nailing my FSA amounts, maintaining good health, etc. are the areas where the real money is being won and lost these days...  Even with that said, we have gone pretty far down the list of "priority purchases", so we are back in a mode of over 50% savings rate.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: wannabe-stache on September 15, 2017, 08:34:01 AM
Don't mind me.  Still in my 40's and I'm being all winey pants about 2 million NW.  Facepunch, double facepunch.  It's all good. 

Actually had to meditate about buying a new leaf blower a few days ago.   It was  $150 at Lowes $165 with tax, found it for $125 at Amazon with no tax or shipping.  WTF!  I'm a dang millionaire, hell technically a multimillionaire on the lowest rung.  I'm debating a leaf blower purchase.   You people have ruined my life.

This is exactly what I am dealing with.  We are in Miami and post-Irma (and post-telling my landscaper he wasn't needed anymore), i realized i really need a rake and a leaf blower.  so i went online to find used items.  i didn't find MMM until 4 months ago, otherwise i would have trotted over to home depot and bought brand new stuff without even thinking about it.

with that, i am jumping into this thread.  DW and i are 34 and 37 respectively and due to high incomes and, despite our below average savings rates, we have $1.6M invested and $2.3M with the home equity.  if i had found MMM 3 years ago i have no doubt we would have way more than $1.6M invested...
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: savedough on September 15, 2017, 12:34:44 PM
Disclaimer: I don't belong in this thread at all.

EXCEPT - I feel that I am many of you 20 years ago, plugging along as an engineer barely making 6 figures, agonizing over purchases, banking my savings in tax-advantaged accounts and accumulating years for a pension.  We are thisclose to $1M net worth and I am 35 (for another two months) counting our home equity which isn't much since we live in a decently priced home.

This makes me happy to see that if my husband and I stay the course, we will make it. 

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: begood on September 15, 2017, 12:38:05 PM
I'm having a little mini freakout today, friends. I check our cash flow monthly but our investments only quarterly. Today's the day. Our investments (taxable + rollover IRA) are up $172K in 2017. One hundred and seventy-two THOUSAND dollars. In nine months.

The extended bull market is clearly driving that growth, and I am alllllll too aware that it can and will drop at some point, possibly soon! October seems like a common drop month. But is this how compounding works? The more $$, the faster the growth? Even though it suffers the vagaries of the market? If so, how stupid am I not to have understood that before?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: mm1970 on September 15, 2017, 02:31:48 PM
Haha Bateaux.

I think the issue is that this thread is almost the antithesis of MMM. If one is frugal why would you need more than $2M.

In any case, accumulating more than $2M either requires a lot of time or a very high income.

I would presume that most people who have accumulated more than $2M are already in there 50s, so not the core audience of MMM. Only a small percentage of MMM posters are doctors, lawyers, investment bankers, CEOs etc who could earn there way to $2M at a young age.

A few will have got very lucky with their finances (like me), by taking risks when young that paid off over the years.

I know that there are plenty of wealthy MMM posters, but most are FIRED and don't give a hoot about any race towards even greater wealth.

Eh...We are engineers.  So, high income but not very high income.  Frugal.  HCOL area.
Not in our 50s yet.  Close.  Prob hit $2M a couple of years ago.
Two kids in elementary school.

I figured that we would prob be typical of people on this thread, no?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on September 15, 2017, 03:04:29 PM
Haha Bateaux.

I think the issue is that this thread is almost the antithesis of MMM. If one is frugal why would you need more than $2M.

In any case, accumulating more than $2M either requires a lot of time or a very high income.

I would presume that most people who have accumulated more than $2M are already in there 50s, so not the core audience of MMM. Only a small percentage of MMM posters are doctors, lawyers, investment bankers, CEOs etc who could earn there way to $2M at a young age.

A few will have got very lucky with their finances (like me), by taking risks when young that paid off over the years.

I know that there are plenty of wealthy MMM posters, but most are FIRED and don't give a hoot about any race towards even greater wealth.

Eh...We are engineers.  So, high income but not very high income.  Frugal.  HCOL area.
Not in our 50s yet.  Close.  Prob hit $2M a couple of years ago.
Two kids in elementary school.

I figured that we would prob be typical of people on this thread, no?

Yep...no doctors, etc...here either.   Not in our 50s yet either.  Two kids - one started college this year and one is in high school.
 
The definition of 'high income' can be very subjective..and vastly different depending on where you live ( HCOL vs LCOL, etc.. ).  Having kids ( and number of kids ) can also have a huge impact on the capability to save.

I think 'frugal but not minimalist, and being persistent' is the common thread here.   We have been saving slow and steady for 20+ years.  We don't buy many expensive 'toys' like boats, campers, expensive cars, cabins, and all that other crap.  It still boggles my mind to see how many people buy these 'toys' and clearly cannot afford them.  I think many people seem to think they are entitled to the 'stuff' and it often seems to get them into financial trouble.  I really love it when people complain about not having nearly enough to retire....while driving around fancy vehicles and such. 

BTW - I added 'cabins' above because quite a few people in my neck of the woods have them...and *always* seem to complain about how expensive they are to maintain.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: honeybbq on September 15, 2017, 04:39:39 PM
Itchy feet I just read about your biking vacation.   Can't wait to do that.  Maybe we'll meet you guys in person out there soon.  My wife does her second Ironman next month.   All that training would be put to great use.  I'm 49 and have no plans to be working at 51.

I've done a couple halves. Some day I will do my full. Thank you  (From me) for supporting your wife! Spouses make all the difference in the tri-journey. :)

I feel inadequate in this thread, since I have to throw in personal real estate to belong.  Glad you're all here, gives me a target to aim for.

I belong if I count my house equity.

I just turned 40. Medical fields. High earner that tries not to spend too much.

Waiting for that 3 to become  4.....
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on September 15, 2017, 10:06:25 PM

Eh...We are engineers.  So, high income but not very high income.  Frugal.  HCOL area.
Not in our 50s yet.  Close.  Prob hit $2M a couple of years ago.
Two kids in elementary school.

I figured that we would prob be typical of people on this thread, no?

Yep, 40 & 45 here. Accountant and school teacher.

It took me about 20 years of working (DW 14 years)  to accumulate the first million, and only about 4 years for the 2nd.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on September 16, 2017, 07:41:43 PM
Itchy feet I just read about your biking vacation.   Can't wait to do that.  Maybe we'll meet you guys in person out there soon.  My wife does her second Ironman next month.   All that training would be put to great use.  I'm 49 and have no plans to be working at 51.

I've done a couple halves. Some day I will do my full. Thank you  (From me) for supporting your wife! Spouses make all the difference in the tri-journey. :)

I feel inadequate in this thread, since I have to throw in personal real estate to belong.  Glad you're all here, gives me a target to aim for.

I belong if I count my house equity.

I just turned 40. Medical fields. High earner that tries not to spend too much.

Waiting for that 3 to become  4.....

I'm debating traing for a 1/2 Ironman next Spring.  My wife runs her 2nd full in Chattanooga next weekend.  Good luck with your events.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on September 16, 2017, 09:01:05 PM
I really need to find something to train for...... and people to train with. I am hopeless left to my own devices. Full of excuses
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on September 17, 2017, 08:14:38 AM
The 1/2 Ironman I'm considering is going to be held in Puerto Rico.  They are under the gun of Hurricane Maria which may hit them with 120 mph winds.   
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Secretly Saving on September 17, 2017, 09:15:37 AM
Haha Bateaux.

I think the issue is that this thread is almost the antithesis of MMM. If one is frugal why would you need more than $2M.

In any case, accumulating more than $2M either requires a lot of time or a very high income.

I would presume that most people who have accumulated more than $2M are already in there 50s, so not the core audience of MMM. Only a small percentage of MMM posters are doctors, lawyers, investment bankers, CEOs etc who could earn there way to $2M at a young age.

A few will have got very lucky with their finances (like me), by taking risks when young that paid off over the years.

I know that there are plenty of wealthy MMM posters, but most are FIRED and don't give a hoot about any race towards even greater wealth.

Eh...We are engineers.  So, high income but not very high income.  Frugal.  HCOL area.
Not in our 50s yet.  Close.  Prob hit $2M a couple of years ago.
Two kids in elementary school.

I figured that we would prob be typical of people on this thread, no?

Yep.
Engineer and teacher.
30s
Kids in elem school.
2m+ invested plus Real Estate
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: OthalaFehu on September 17, 2017, 10:03:11 AM
Just crested 2M in assets but have 440k in liabilities dragging me back down. I am 43, so will keep plugging away. Zero to 1 was way harder than 1 to 2. I keep data and charts on all aspects of my financial picture. It became so much of a hobby, I started sharing it all with the public. Viva the FIRE Revolution!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on September 17, 2017, 11:50:29 AM
If the bull keeps running (big IF) we will need a $3M to $4M thread soon..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: bigchrisb on September 17, 2017, 02:59:13 PM
Haha Bateaux.

I think the issue is that this thread is almost the antithesis of MMM. If one is frugal why would you need more than $2M.

In any case, accumulating more than $2M either requires a lot of time or a very high income.

I would presume that most people who have accumulated more than $2M are already in there 50s, so not the core audience of MMM. Only a small percentage of MMM posters are doctors, lawyers, investment bankers, CEOs etc who could earn there way to $2M at a young age.

A few will have got very lucky with their finances (like me), by taking risks when young that paid off over the years.

I know that there are plenty of wealthy MMM posters, but most are FIRED and don't give a hoot about any race towards even greater wealth.

Eh...We are engineers.  So, high income but not very high income.  Frugal.  HCOL area.
Not in our 50s yet.  Close.  Prob hit $2M a couple of years ago.
Two kids in elementary school.

I figured that we would prob be typical of people on this thread, no?

Yep.
Engineer and teacher.
30s
Kids in elem school.
2m+ invested plus Real Estate

35 Engineer here. Self made through investment, both listed stocks and private businesses (invested in and grew my former employer before selling the company).  My wife is a public servant, but we have not combined finances.  If we had, we would be in the race to 4m. 

Mostly invested in stocks with a bit of leverage.  The first million took 7 years, the second 3.5, and the next 900k was under a year.  I always knew the theory that it would turn exponential, but I'm still a bit disbelieving of the reality.   
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on September 17, 2017, 08:29:20 PM
900K in 1 year. Wowsers!!!

2017 started off super strong for me, but has faded. I think my stash growth this year will be less than 2015 and 2016.

I too have got to here rolling the dice on a bit of leverage. I just figured worst case was that I pay back the loan over an extended period. Best case the inclvestment returns beat the cost of debt and I get a bit of a leg up. I got a bit lucky, although that is only a part of the story.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: honeybbq on September 18, 2017, 12:48:29 PM
The 1/2 Ironman I'm considering is going to be held in Puerto Rico.  They are under the gun of Hurricane Maria which may hit them with 120 mph winds.

Why that particular half? It does sound fun to travel. My tri group is all doing Costa Rica this Nov. (it's a full though)

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: honeybbq on September 18, 2017, 12:49:02 PM
I really need to find something to train for...... and people to train with. I am hopeless left to my own devices. Full of excuses

Do you have a tri group?

I've found the best way to get my ass in gear is to sign up for a race! :)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on September 19, 2017, 02:20:24 PM
Itchyfeet - HoneyBBQ we're clogging up the thread with all the nice things we can do once were into the 7 figures 😁   
Anyway, probably going to wait for the 2019 Puerto Rico Ironman unless Maria spares them somehow.  We could do another location.  Have fun.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: JoJoP on October 13, 2017, 10:17:32 PM
Don't mind me.  Still in my 40's and I'm being all winey pants about 2 million NW.  Facepunch, double facepunch.  It's all good. 

Actually had to meditate about buying a new leaf blower a few days ago.   It was  $150 at Lowes $165 with tax, found it for $125 at Amazon with no tax or shipping.  WTF!  I'm a dang millionaire, hell technically a multimillionaire on the lowest rung.  I'm debating a leaf blower purchase.   You people have ruined my life.

Your post gave me a chuckle!   I hope you got the Amazon one.

Yes, we're among the older folks in the MMM family, but frugal living and careful planning is what got us here, right?  We're past the 3M mark, mostly with our multiple, nearly paid-for, rentals.   There are lots of us "oldies" who find kindred spirits here at MMM, even though we may have overbuilt the empire or worked for longer than you younger people intend to.   To be frugal and build a good future was the plan.  I'm proud of it, because it wasn't easy.  No silver spoons here...  My mom and I were laughing earlier today about the time when I was so poor that there was no toilet paper. 

My old joke is that you can either be rich or look rich, but it takes an awful lot of money to do both.  It's the Millionaire Next Door idea.   Now I'm the millionaire next door. Me... a multimillionaire!  Wow!   As I sit here in my thrift store outfit, sifting through rental apps on a rental that I'll be getting $500 more a month on since the last folks moved out.  The rent was low, and is still on the low end in our HCOL area.   That's a $6000 a year raise, this year and forever after,  and I didn't have to do a thing.  My plan is to snowball my way to paying off the last couple of mortgage loans on the rentals.  I should have the last 3 paid off within 3-4 years.  Life is fine!   
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on October 14, 2017, 03:16:34 AM
There are many technical types here.  They keeps spread sheets on how many rolls of toilet paper and tubes of toothpaste they use a month.  They calculate Alpha, Beta and several other Greek letters representing strategies I haven't a clue about.  We spent less than we earned and invested the rest.  More of the JL Collins, "A simple Path to Wealth" approach.  Personally I love the Mint app.  It tells me what I'm worth almost instantly.  Even reminds me when I spend.  It just told me that I wrote a $4200 check.  Told me I don't usually spend that much, what's up?  Deposit for the new roof on the house Mint, it's all good.
Like many of us here, we'd already achieved a million or more in NW before finding the MMM blog.  I've learned so much since coming here however.   Those technical types, glad they share their knowledge.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Mr Griz on October 14, 2017, 05:42:42 AM
Weíre about 6 months from FIRE and Iíve been simplifying our various investment and bank accounts. Each one tells a story and itís been interesting to relive all the financial blunders weíve made over the years. Despite all, the stache is well above $2M. Itís truly been as straightforward as JL Collins & Mr. MM describe it.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: bigchrisb on October 17, 2017, 02:13:02 AM


35 Engineer here. Self made through investment, both listed stocks and private businesses (invested in and grew my former employer before selling the company).  My wife is a public servant, but we have not combined finances.  If we had, we would be in the race to 4m. 

Mostly invested in stocks with a bit of leverage.  The first million took 7 years, the second 3.5, and the next 900k was under a year.  I always knew the theory that it would turn exponential, but I'm still a bit disbelieving of the reality.

So, this month I started a trial fire with 2.9m. 10 days post job and the rallying markets have done enough to bump me over the $3m Mark.  Aside from staying the investment course, it was all down to what the market did. 

Being in a draw down phase for at least a couple of years I expect the accumulation pace to slow down now.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on October 17, 2017, 07:17:54 AM
35 Engineer here. Self made through investment, both listed stocks and private businesses (invested in and grew my former employer before selling the company).  My wife is a public servant, but we have not combined finances.  If we had, we would be in the race to 4m. 

Mostly invested in stocks with a bit of leverage.  The first million took 7 years, the second 3.5, and the next 900k was under a year.  I always knew the theory that it would turn exponential, but I'm still a bit disbelieving of the reality.
So, this month I started a trial fire with 2.9m. 10 days post job and the rallying markets have done enough to bump me over the $3m Mark.  Aside from staying the investment course, it was all down to what the market did. 

Being in a draw down phase for at least a couple of years I expect the accumulation pace to slow down now.
Congratulations, bigchrisb!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on October 17, 2017, 09:57:50 AM
^^^^ Excellent^^^^^
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on October 17, 2017, 10:42:02 PM
Is there a race from $3M to $4M thread?  If not, maybe bigchrisb can start it! 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: JoJoP on October 21, 2017, 09:46:07 PM
Maybe a thread title change: "Race from $2M and beyond..."
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on October 22, 2017, 07:36:56 AM
Hehe.. this is starting to sound like one of those philosophical discussions.. Like "How much is too much?"...:)

Or even "how much is enough?"

My "number" is $5m.. or roughly double what I have now..;)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on October 22, 2017, 10:04:52 AM
I would never say $5 million USD is too much.

DW and I could certainly find a way to spend it.

But for us, the tipping point at which the extra spending power isn't worth the extra days spent in an office falls short of $5M.

About half of that number will do for us 2.5M USD= ~ 3.3M AUD. yep enough 👍 .

Maybe I will have some kind of encore career that will see us get us a little closer to $5M. who knows.

(I am talking today's $ above. I am sure one day my stash will be $5million, but it will be worth half as much as $5m today.)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: mjr on October 22, 2017, 05:13:51 PM
Ticked over $2m ex-PPOR today.  I think my race has been run, I don't see how I can possibly stay working until the $3m mark, but at least I can join this race in a casual saunter.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: concealed stache on October 22, 2017, 07:28:18 PM
Ticked over $2m ex-PPOR today.  I think my race has been run, I don't see how I can possibly stay working until the $3m mark, but at least I can join this race in a casual saunter.

I find myself in the same boat - although I don't run complete numbers during the month, it's quite clear that I've rolled over into 2.x territory this month - of course that could all change by month end. Given that I've handed in my notice I expect to be riding the local train for the next gains instead of the express it's been of late.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on October 22, 2017, 09:28:43 PM
Ticked over $2m ex-PPOR today.  I think my race has been run, I don't see how I can possibly stay working until the $3m mark, but at least I can join this race in a casual saunter.

The $2.5m I am talking about above is really $1.8M plus PPOR.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on October 22, 2017, 09:47:30 PM
Ticked over $2m ex-PPOR today.  I think my race has been run, I don't see how I can possibly stay working until the $3m mark, but at least I can join this race in a casual saunter.

The $2.5m I am talking about above is really $1.8M plus PPOR.
Principal Place of Residence? Possible Place of Refuge? Perinatal Periods of Risk?

Are your numbers in USD or AUS?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: mjr on October 23, 2017, 12:18:03 AM
Aussie dollars, of course.  We can't spend US dollars here :-)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on October 23, 2017, 07:55:29 AM
Haha. I'll happily spend some more USD in your part of the world if ever I get the chance to return. But seriously, what the hell is PPOR?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on October 23, 2017, 08:00:10 AM
Principal Place of Residence?  Potential Prodigious Onset of Revenue? 

And 2M AUS is 'merely' 1.56M USD, you've not even made it to the starting line :)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on October 23, 2017, 12:27:51 PM
Yes, PPOR is an Australian taxation acronym for the house you live in, and get a capital gains tax exemption for. Principal Place of Residence. Should just call it home like everyone else I suppose.

I didn't join this thread till I passed $2M USD, which occurred several months back when the USD dropped v the AUD.

With the USD slowly regaining ground there is a small risk I could drop below $2M USD once more.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: wannabe-stache on October 31, 2017, 02:35:49 PM
Ticked over $2m ex-PPOR today.  I think my race has been run, I don't see how I can possibly stay working until the $3m mark, but at least I can join this race in a casual saunter.

The $2.5m I am talking about above is really $1.8M plus PPOR.

Same here. $2.65M with home equity. so close...

edited to add that i am sitting in my office wearing loafers i bought at a thrift store, ate lunch at my desk and took the train to work today. what a nice day.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on October 31, 2017, 11:22:33 PM
Ticked over $2m ex-PPOR today.  I think my race has been run, I don't see how I can possibly stay working until the $3m mark, but at least I can join this race in a casual saunter.

The $2.5m I am talking about above is really $1.8M plus PPOR.

Same here. $2.65M with home equity. so close...

edited to add that i am sitting in my office wearing loafers i bought at a thrift store, ate lunch at my desk and took the train to work today. what a nice day.

Not trying to make waves, but since I'm doing well on NW already, just being at work seems to give me the liberty to buy a fresh $5 salad most days (when I have to buy for myself - most times I have lunch meetings) and splurge a little on good shoes (https://www.olukai.com/mens/shoes.html). 

To each their own, but none of these things seems to move the needle much for me either way, other than knowing I am eating healthier and taking good care of my gait.  Low stress job, so I'm OK with working as long as they'll have me.  And it looks like I'll get some plum international travel in 2018...
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: wannabe-stache on November 01, 2017, 07:16:10 AM

[/quote]

Same here. $2.65M with home equity. so close...

edited to add that i am sitting in my office wearing loafers i bought at a thrift store, ate lunch at my desk and took the train to work today. what a nice day.
[/quote]

Not trying to make waves, but since I'm doing well on NW already, just being at work seems to give me the liberty to buy a fresh $5 salad most days (when I have to buy for myself - most times I have lunch meetings) and splurge a little on good shoes (https://www.olukai.com/mens/shoes.html). 

To each their own, but none of these things seems to move the needle much for me either way, other than knowing I am eating healthier and taking good care of my gait.  Low stress job, so I'm OK with working as long as they'll have me.  And it looks like I'll get some plum international travel in 2018...
[/quote]

No worries, like you i tend not to begrudge others' choices. i buy a diet coke every day for lunch and my wife and i still occasionally treat ourselves to good wine from our napa valley wineries.  that's the refreshing part of this particular thread, it's less dogmatic than most.

what MMM and others have opened my eyes to was seeing value in purchases. i didn't really value my BMW, or cable TV, or my landscaper, so i cut them out. but you can take my pinot or my diet coke from my cold, dead hands.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on November 01, 2017, 10:37:41 AM
Ah, you guys should loosen up and live a little!  (I say, then realize I'm wearing sneakers that one of my kids got sick of and pants inherited from my dad)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on November 01, 2017, 11:48:15 AM
Ticked over $2m ex-PPOR today.  I think my race has been run, I don't see how I can possibly stay working until the $3m mark, but at least I can join this race in a casual saunter.

The $2.5m I am talking about above is really $1.8M plus PPOR.

Same here. $2.65M with home equity. so close...

edited to add that i am sitting in my office wearing loafers i bought at a thrift store, ate lunch at my desk and took the train to work today. what a nice day.
HeHe, just wait until you're FIRE.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: honeyfill on November 01, 2017, 10:06:46 PM
Sitting at 2.35M here. 2.5 with home equity.  We are 60/58 and retiring some time in the next 10 months so its highly unlikely we reach 3m, but its fun to track it and to watch others go for the big 3.0. We 've hit our number and built u a couple of years of cash reserves so we really don't need any more.  Dropped savings to just hit the max match on the 401k.  Now just paying down some debt, and building up a cash reserve to pay for a kitchen remodel and a semi-luxury retirement celebration vacation in France. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on November 01, 2017, 11:05:09 PM
Very nice..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on November 02, 2017, 12:07:50 AM
Sitting at 2.35M here. 2.5 with home equity.  We are 60/58 and retiring some time in the next 10 months so its highly unlikely we reach 3m, but its fun to track it and to watch others go for the big 3.0. We 've hit our number and built u a couple of years of cash reserves so we really don't need any more.  Dropped savings to just hit the max match on the 401k.  Now just paying down some debt, and building up a cash reserve to pay for a kitchen remodel and a semi-luxury retirement celebration vacation in France.
Okay, I admit it, I am confused. You have only 150k in home equity and you're paying down "some debt". You have 2.5M, but you're waiting up to ten more months to retire? Something's  missing here. More info please?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on November 02, 2017, 01:02:34 AM
I assumed they were still paying off the mortgage.. But the $2.35M was the net value of cash plus investments.. yes?

As to the 10 months.. Clearly love their jobs way more than I did..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on November 02, 2017, 06:46:42 AM
Seems reasonable to me.  60/58, kids are likely out of the house.  Sounds like a mortgage is still in place but perhaps they're part of the "never pay your mortgage off" crowd (nothing wrong with that).  At $2.35M, they could be in a place where they realize that they are FI but don't want to stop working yet for whatever reason.  That's fine too. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: honeyfill on November 03, 2017, 04:54:51 PM
Seems like there are some questions out there about our plans, so I thought I would give some more details.  I am not a true mustachian , I only discovered the site a few months ago. We had built up a nice nest egg of 1.7M in 2016 by maxing out the 401k since the first day they were offered.  But while we never wasted money , we spent a lot.  Lots of credit card debt , paid for daughterís tuition, lots of nice things. So we had no money in taxable accounts, and I did not want to take money out of the 401ks. 
So we always thought retirement was sometime in the future and didnít really plan for it. Plus I am an engineer and I do like my job.
Then I got an inheritance, 500k. It took a few months to for everything to really settle in mentally but I realized maybe I could retire. 
I figured the first thing to do was to get my debt in order.  Refinanced the house at 3.5% 270K loan, 150k equity on a 420k house.  Put all the credit cards on 0% interest.  Then started to blast through the debt.  I decided to start pulling 7 k a month out of our investments. Paid off our 2nd mortgage , paid off a ton of student debt, paid off lots of credit cards.  So why wait 10 more months?  Partly one more year, partly more debt.  21k on wifeís car 2.99%.  7 k on credit cards 0% , 7 k left on daughters student debt 4%, Thatís 5 months.  Then we want to remodel the kitchen and take a luxury retirement celebration vacation. I figure that is 35k and 5 months more.  The final complications are that my in-laws have moved in with us and my daughter has health problems , which have prevented her from working since the summer.  Fortunately all their health issues seem to have stabilized. Our daughter is back on her feet and sending out resumeís.  My inlaws have set up a support system and our not really a financial drain. They pay all the medical and care givers , we just kick in a place to live, food and shelter.  The 10 months will give us a chance to mentally prepare, get our spending down to something more mustache like and to figure out how we handle health care between now and medicare.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: soccerluvof4 on November 05, 2017, 07:13:12 AM
With my house I'm 2.9 and some change maybe could also get a few more dollars for the house. W/O house 2.6 and some change but its been kinda stagnant for me the last 6 months +/- as I have spent more than the budget because of the market rise. Remodeling etc.. things i know I would need to do down the line so I have taken out more than my normal withdrawal rate would be.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on November 11, 2017, 11:18:36 AM
Thanks for filling in some of the blanks, honeyfill. (Hee!)

Due to a bout of insomnia last night, I read through some of the lower goal races. I noticed a lot of people post updates monthly. Their passion and zeal is fun to see/remember.

This group seems to be a lot more relaxed, which is kind of a reward unto itself. Up to a certain point, it's a race. After that, it's a coast.

In news of the bizarre, a house in the neighborhood, but not nearly as new or as nice as ours, sold for $1.26M on 10/24/17. Zillow now says it's worth  $1,277,205, for an increase of $59,965 in 18 days!! They still think ours is "only" worth  $1.34M. Yawn. Whatever.*

I think I'll go make some scratch waffles with fresh berries for breakfast/brunch in my garage sale purchased waffle iron, then head over to my favorite thrift store. I just discovered that all clothing is half off on Saturdays. Whoop!

*I just found this on Zillow. "When it comes to unique homes (e.g., luxury mansions, unusual designs) we are less accurate in our Zestimates." No kidding.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on November 11, 2017, 11:33:24 AM
Thanks for filling in some of the blanks, honeyfill. (Hee!)

Due to a bout of insomnia last night, I read through some of the lower goal races. I noticed a lot of people post updates monthly. Their passion and zeal is fun to see/remember.

This group seems to be a lot more relaxed, which is kind of a reward unto itself. Up to a certain point, it's a race. After that, it's a coast.

I am not particularly wanting to coast to my number and to FIRE. But, with my NW now above $2M, I can't really drive it up fast by saving more. The growth of the stash these days is more reliant on returns than my savings efforts. I just have to wait for time to do its magic, and I will be where I want to be. In any case, I do update my progress on a monthly basis on the 2019 thread.

I should hit $3M Aussie pesos by the end of 2018, but that is only 2.3M USD.... def not racing to $3M USD.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on November 11, 2017, 11:45:06 AM
Maybe you're not experiencing as much of a bull market as the US is? Also, as you approach the equivalent of $2-3M USD, perhaps you'll feel a little differently. However, "just...wait[ing] for time to do its magic" kinda sounds like we're talking about the same thing.

I admit, I don't follow the cohort threads too closely, because I hit FIRE "too early"* Such a FWP!

*ETA: To clarify, there's no such thing as retiring too early. The cohorts didn't begin until I was out the corporate door, is what I meant. If someone wants to start one for 2012 retroactively,  I'll play along. Maybe ;-)

And you refrigerator people: get over it! The newer models are so much more energy efficient, they will pay for themselves in time. As long as you didn't buy some crazy-ass thing with Bluetooth, go optimize somewhere else, (Frank) and stop looking at that new shiny thing in your kitchen. No time for guilt here!!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on November 13, 2017, 11:42:53 AM
Stop talking about my fridge.. I already feel guilty sitting here looking at it..:)

It is nice not to have to repack the frigging freezer everytime we go shopping though!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: JoJoP on November 13, 2017, 10:00:54 PM
I have a new fancy pants fridge.  We got by on an avocado shade one till it died, then a teeny full sized one that fit in our teeny house and came with us when we moved.  There was about an extra foot of space that it didn't fill up in the kitchen fridge cubby.  It was white and everything else in the kitchen was black.  I know it shouldn't matter, but it did look stupid.  We had it about 6 years.    Now we splurged (after bargain hunting at Home Depot, on sale, using our 5% off cards,).  The fridge is great.  The French doors allow you to easily see everything in there, and the drawer is a great invention and leaves the cold air in the main part undisturbed.  It even makes our ice.  Face punch, right?  When I use the "cost per use" analysis, it was a good purchase.  We do use it everyday, after all... 

Now, back to my regularly scheduled thrift store shopping.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Secretly Saving on November 14, 2017, 06:27:31 AM
We just got a new one too.  Our old one was rusting through the front of it, but it was working so why bother changing something that still served it's purpose?  New fridge is fancy pants -- husband loves all the extra ice.  I kinda miss the old one.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on November 14, 2017, 10:07:24 AM
We rent a place that came with a fridge, dishwasher, washing machine etc, so no white goods shopping for us these days.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: markbike528CBX on November 14, 2017, 02:55:03 PM
...big snip here, I find it is more obvious to markbike528 the reader to snip than to bold key points.......

So, this month I started a trial fire with 2.9m. 10 days post job and the rallying markets have done enough to bump me over the $3m Mark.   .... snip....

On one hand it is nice to see someone who's finished this race taking a "trial" FIRE, as I'm in the same place on being tentative FIREing.
But on the other hand, good golly bigcrhisb.. you should have been done long ago.     

I can imagine people on this board wondering the same thing about me, even though I've just started this race, many others at lower NW have FIREd long ago.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on November 14, 2017, 07:27:02 PM
Hey everybody.  Looks like a lot of ya have migrated here from the 1 to 2.  I've been having some fun the last few weeks and even spending some money.  I went on a fishing trip with some friends, we even caught some.   Flew down to Mexico with the wife and another couple.  We did a lot of cool stuff.  Had a new roof put on the house.  We even sent some cash off for storm victims.  After all that, there's more in the bank than before.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on November 14, 2017, 08:32:24 PM
Hey everybody.  Looks like a lot of ya have migrated here from the 1 to 2.  I've been having some fun the last few weeks and even spending some money.  I went on a fishing trip with some friends, we even caught some.   Flew down to Mexico with the wife and another couple.  We did a lot of cool stuff.  Had a new roof put on the house.  We even sent some cash off for storm victims.  After all that, there's more in the bank than before.

Great job.. And there was me "scared" to look at my accounts after the massive pullback we have just had..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on November 14, 2017, 09:32:58 PM
...big snip here, I find it is more obvious to markbike528 the reader to snip than to bold key points.......

So, this month I started a trial fire with 2.9m. 10 days post job and the rallying markets have done enough to bump me over the $3m Mark.   .... snip....

On one hand it is nice to see someone who's finished this race taking a "trial" FIRE, as I'm in the same place on being tentative FIREing.
But on the other hand, good golly bigcrhisb.. you should have been done long ago.     

I can imagine people on this board wondering the same thing about me, even though I've just started this race, many others at lower NW have FIREd long ago.

Personal finance is indeed extremely personal.

There can be no fixed rule about what is the right amount as there are so many variables that are different for each person.

Many on these boards say ďif I had more money I wouldnít know what to do with itĒ. I donít have this problem. My imagination is pretty active.

So for me deciding what is ďenoughĒ is a constant weighing up of what I am sacrificing by being a wage slave versus what Iíd be sacrificing by FIREing today. I certainly have enough stash to FIRE, but I am still not quite at my personal tipping point where I am willing to lock myself into the lifestyle that my stash would finance, when a couple of years of extra work will provide a few extra options which seem worth working for today. That being said, if I lost my job I am not sure Iíd bother looking for a replacement.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on November 15, 2017, 03:53:18 AM
/\

We're pretty much living now at a level below what our stach could support.  Nobody says you have to live on less in retirement than in working years.  We've missed out on a lot during our working years.  We we're saving tens of thousands of dollars and working overtime while others were out spending money cruising the seas, buying new cars and fancy houses.  We're still working a few more years.  Now back of the napkin math says we're gaining about 10k a year in potential spending at 4% withdrawl every year we work.  The current number we could spend if FIRED is about 75k at 4%.  2018 85k, 2019 95k, 2020 105k  These are very rough and conservative numbers but you see the progression.   The 1 million stash level is where you can be frugal and make it, the 2 million stash level is a tipping point. We have the choice to live at the 1 million stash level and have the other million working for us.  We can have cheap years and bonus years.  Most likely our stash will grow into legacy funds after reaching 2 million, certainly once the 3 million level is reached.   
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on November 15, 2017, 07:43:03 AM
/\

We're pretty much living now at a level below what our stach could support.  Nobody says you have to live on less in retirement than in working years.  We've missed out on a lot during our working years.  We we're saving tens of thousands of dollars and working overtime while others were out spending money cruising the seas, buying new cars and fancy houses.  We're still working a few more years.  Now back of the napkin math says we're gaining about 10k a year in potential spending at 4% withdrawl every year we work.  The current number we could spend if FIRED is about 75k at 4%.  2018 85k, 2019 95k, 2020 105k  These are very rough and conservative numbers but you see the progression.   The 1 million stash level is where you can be frugal and make it, the 2 million stash level is a tipping point. We have the choice to live at the 1 million stash level and have the other million working for us.  We can have cheap years and bonus years.  Most likely our stash will grow into legacy funds after reaching 2 million, certainly once the 3 million level is reached.

Yep, I agree that the 2M point ( in investable assets ) is a tipping point.  However, what keeps us up at night is the ongoing healthcare debacle.  We have a family member with significant chronic health issues and feel that we need to save an additional 'significant amount' just to cover the potential uncertainty of future healthcare.   

I think healthcare is one of the major influencing factors that keeps people from FIREing...even with a large stashe.  I wish we could at least get some stability..but not gonna happen in this political environment. 


Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: begood on November 15, 2017, 07:51:10 AM
/\

We're pretty much living now at a level below what our stach could support.  Nobody says you have to live on less in retirement than in working years.  We've missed out on a lot during our working years.  We we're saving tens of thousands of dollars and working overtime while others were out spending money cruising the seas, buying new cars and fancy houses.  We're still working a few more years.  Now back of the napkin math says we're gaining about 10k a year in potential spending at 4% withdrawl every year we work.  The current number we could spend if FIRED is about 75k at 4%.  2018 85k, 2019 95k, 2020 105k  These are very rough and conservative numbers but you see the progression.   The 1 million stash level is where you can be frugal and make it, the 2 million stash level is a tipping point. We have the choice to live at the 1 million stash level and have the other million working for us.  We can have cheap years and bonus years.  Most likely our stash will grow into legacy funds after reaching 2 million, certainly once the 3 million level is reached.

Yep, I agree that the 2M point ( in investable assets ) is a tipping point.  However, what keeps us up at night is the ongoing healthcare debacle.  We have a family member with significant chronic health issues and feel that we need to save an additional 'significant amount' just to cover the potential uncertainty of future healthcare.   

I think healthcare is one of the major influencing factors that keeps people from FIREing...even with a large stashe.  I wish we could at least get some stability..but not gonna happen in this political environment.

Me too. My mister and I both have pre-existing conditions based on the most recent list that circulated. Without employer-supported insurance or some ACA-like insurance that's required to cover us, we could easily bankrupt ourselves with medical costs. To me, it's the splash of cold water on the face of FIRE. I don't Debbie Downer here because it's such a place of beautiful optimism, but I just can't get beyond the thought: "What if I can't get health care?"
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on November 15, 2017, 11:13:28 AM
Same here.  Any FIRE date prior to mid 2019 is not an option.  We have a cancer survivor son on my employer insurance who will be 26 in 2019.  Beyond that, FIRE may still be a dream if we must help with his healthcare costs.  Without the ACA we'd be in big trouble.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: bigchrisb on November 15, 2017, 03:08:34 PM
/\

We're pretty much living now at a level below what our stach could support.  Nobody says you have to live on less in retirement than in working years.  We've missed out on a lot during our working years.  We we're saving tens of thousands of dollars and working overtime while others were out spending money cruising the seas, buying new cars and fancy houses.  We're still working a few more years.  Now back of the napkin math says we're gaining about 10k a year in potential spending at 4% withdrawl every year we work.  The current number we could spend if FIRED is about 75k at 4%.  2018 85k, 2019 95k, 2020 105k  These are very rough and conservative numbers but you see the progression.   The 1 million stash level is where you can be frugal and make it, the 2 million stash level is a tipping point. We have the choice to live at the 1 million stash level and have the other million working for us.  We can have cheap years and bonus years.  Most likely our stash will grow into legacy funds after reaching 2 million, certainly once the 3 million level is reached.

Yep, I agree that the 2M point ( in investable assets ) is a tipping point.  However, what keeps us up at night is the ongoing healthcare debacle.  We have a family member with significant chronic health issues and feel that we need to save an additional 'significant amount' just to cover the potential uncertainty of future healthcare.   

I think healthcare is one of the major influencing factors that keeps people from FIREing...even with a large stashe.  I wish we could at least get some stability..but not gonna happen in this political environment.

Agree 100% with healthcare being an issue.  I have a degenerative, progressive condition which will have increasing impacts over life - hence the extra padding.  I'm lucky to live in a country with good public healthcare (Australia) - its not quite universal, but good enough for intents and purposes.  However, beyond the direct healthcare costs, having something that will probably prevent you from going back to work in a failure scenario in ~20 years time is a strong incentive to pad the stash a bit more,  both to reduce failure probability, and to allow for an increased spending on disability care if needed.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: bigchrisb on November 15, 2017, 03:31:40 PM
...big snip here, I find it is more obvious to markbike528 the reader to snip than to bold key points.......

So, this month I started a trial fire with 2.9m. 10 days post job and the rallying markets have done enough to bump me over the $3m Mark.   .... snip....

On one hand it is nice to see someone who's finished this race taking a "trial" FIRE, as I'm in the same place on being tentative FIREing.
But on the other hand, good golly bigcrhisb.. you should have been done long ago.     

I can imagine people on this board wondering the same thing about me, even though I've just started this race, many others at lower NW have FIREd long ago.

Personal finance is indeed extremely personal.

There can be no fixed rule about what is the right amount as there are so many variables that are different for each person.

Many on these boards say ďif I had more money I wouldnít know what to do with itĒ. I donít have this problem. My imagination is pretty active.

So for me deciding what is ďenoughĒ is a constant weighing up of what I am sacrificing by being a wage slave versus what Iíd be sacrificing by FIREing today. I certainly have enough stash to FIRE, but I am still not quite at my personal tipping point where I am willing to lock myself into the lifestyle that my stash would finance, when a couple of years of extra work will provide a few extra options which seem worth working for today. That being said, if I lost my job I am not sure Iíd bother looking for a replacement.

Indeed it is personal - I'd been more focused on the FI (which I hit a while ago), than the RE.  Multiple reasons for me, including:
- Health risks.  See one post up.
- Rate of change.  The snowballing had gotten to the point where "one more year" was adding multiple years of expenses, or increasing the potential draw down by $10k+ per year.
- A bit of "killing time". In the lead up my wife was pregnant with our first baby, so limited adventure potential in the last 3 months of the pregnancy.  Timing wise, we are going on a deployment for her work once the baby is 6 months, so it made for a natural exit point, where if it didn't work out, I could resume a career on return with a decent excuse for the gap in the CV.

I think that these forums tend to draw in personalities that like to optimise.  I spent a lot of time optimising FI, but cared less about optimising the RE.  Others have a bigger focus on optimising the RE part, and hence wonder what people like me are thinking!

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Koogie on November 15, 2017, 05:04:09 PM
I have a degenerative, progressive condition which will have increasing impacts over life - hence the extra padding.  I'm lucky to live in a country with good public healthcare (Australia) - its not quite universal, but good enough for intents and purposes.  However, beyond the direct healthcare costs, having something that will probably prevent you from going back to work in a failure scenario in ~20 years time is a strong incentive to pad the stash a bit more,  both to reduce failure probability, and to allow for an increased spending on disability care if needed.

Ditto (but in Canada).  DW has a degenerative neurological condition.  We have a large enough stash to accommodate our anticipated spending needs but not enough to feel perfectly safe from being ruined by future palliative care costs.   Hence, OMY syndrome.     

I have tried to make it easier on myself though by going semi-RE.   Quality of life NOW matters as well.    We aren't touching the stash as yet so it continues to feed itself and grow "organically"
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on November 21, 2017, 09:16:10 AM
You can almost have a mindset of retirement once you're financially independent.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: JoJoP on November 27, 2017, 10:35:11 PM
You can almost have a mindset of retirement once you're financially independent.

This is a great point!  Once you're FI, more things become optional.  Not just working, but purchases, investments, lifestyle, staching.  I've been a stay at home mom for years, but still worked- as a realtor for the last 8-10 years.  I can choose my clients and workload, or farm it out for a referral fee.  I manage our rentals and investments.   It doesn't feel like a real job, since I can choose to work, or not.  The real estate license was most valuable as a tool for reducing purchase costs on our rental investments, and has saved us a bundle.    I can carry on like this for another couple of decades.  MMM encourages frugality by learning to fix things (hubs does that for us), while I push the paper and plan the strategy.   Someday, at true retirement, if we keep the investment properties, maybe I'll farm out the rental management to a management company, but, in the mean time, I'm earning my keep.   It's not structured enough to feel like I have to RE to escape it.  We are Mustachians in the sense that we are completely hands on in all areas.  As someone who's always been a self employed entrepreneur and business owner,  the line between working, retirement and semi-retirement is not so clear cut.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on November 28, 2017, 08:31:31 AM
You can almost have a mindset of retirement once you're financially independent.

This is a great point!  Once you're FI, more things become optional.  Not just working, but purchases, investments, lifestyle, staching.  I've been a stay at home mom for years, but still worked- as a realtor for the last 8-10 years.  I can choose my clients and workload, or farm it out for a referral fee.  I manage our rentals and investments.   It doesn't feel like a real job, since I can choose to work, or not.  The real estate license was most valuable as a tool for reducing purchase costs on our rental investments, and has saved us a bundle.    I can carry on like this for another couple of decades.  MMM encourages frugality by learning to fix things (hubs does that for us), while I push the paper and plan the strategy.   Someday, at true retirement, if we keep the investment properties, maybe I'll farm out the rental management to a management company, but, in the mean time, I'm earning my keep.   It's not structured enough to feel like I have to RE to escape it.  We are Mustachians in the sense that we are completely hands on in all areas.  As someone who's always been a self employed entrepreneur and business owner,  the line between working, retirement and semi-retirement is not so clear cut.


My 'problem' is that we are..or nearly are...financially independent.   However, this has really affected my work motivation lately.  Therefore, I may be 'retired' before I know it!   

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on November 28, 2017, 08:58:49 AM
My 'problem' is that we are..or nearly are...financially independent.   However, this has really affected my work motivation lately.  Therefore, I may be 'retired' before I know it!
That's the very definition of an MPP!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: GettingClose on November 28, 2017, 12:12:48 PM
We just hit $3M today! There is absolutely no one IRL with whom this can be shared - so it feels great to post here!

The plan is for my spouse to retire by 09/01/2018 and then for me to work for another year to see how it goes. Yes, we're really cautious.  I tracked all of our spending last year, and it was about $65k, but health insurance alone would cost $1750/month for both of us (currently paid through work).   So that's another $21k, and then who knows how much more we'll spend in retireiment ...  My spouse, although careful with money, hates spending restrictions.

We're trying to get permanent residency status for Canada, which adds another layer of uncertainty.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on November 28, 2017, 01:12:13 PM
Nice job and "happy graduation".  Are you backing down your AA at this point, since "you've won the game"?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: GettingClose on November 28, 2017, 01:25:48 PM
Nice job and "happy graduation".  Are you backing down your AA at this point, since "you've won the game"?

Thank you!  Our AA was backed down a couple of years ago when we hit $2.5M; a good deal more conservative than I'd like.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on November 28, 2017, 07:30:53 PM
Fantastic.. Does that include equity in your house, pensions etc?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on November 28, 2017, 09:21:15 PM
Job well done Gettingclose.  That cost of healthcare scares the crap out of me.  I'd hoped 500k invested could be enough to cover health costs at a 4% withdrawal rate.   Maybe I'll need to up that amount.   
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: GettingClose on November 29, 2017, 10:16:44 AM
Fantastic.. Does that include equity in your house, pensions etc?

No pensions, but it does include the house.  This, however, is about to be sold (offer in hand, fingers crossed) - and we'll probably clear $50-100k above the number I've been using when calculating net worth.  The plan is to move to Canada and rent until we figure out "what's next".  The house is hugely expensive to run/insure/maintain/pay property tax on, so changes in housing costs are more unknowns coming up.  It's possible that renting a modest, energy-efficient home could cost less than owning a mortgage-free, 4800-sq-ft monstrosity with huge windows everywhere and an indoor pool ...  A lot of change and discovery ahead. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on November 29, 2017, 10:36:30 AM
Fantastic.. Does that include equity in your house, pensions etc?

No pensions, but it does include the house.  This, however, is about to be sold (offer in hand, fingers crossed) - and we'll probably clear $50-100k above the number I've been using when calculating net worth.  The plan is to move to Canada and rent until we figure out "what's next".  The house is hugely expensive to run/insure/maintain/pay property tax on, so changes in housing costs are more unknowns coming up.  It's possible that renting a modest, energy-efficient home could cost less than owning a mortgage-free, 4800-sq-ft monstrosity with huge windows everywhere and an indoor pool ...  A lot of change and discovery ahead.
Sounds exciting! Can't wait to hear more as your new life unfolds.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: BTDretire on November 29, 2017, 01:52:21 PM
One word, itchyfeet: philanthropy.

PTF. If I include the value of DH's defined benefit pension, we're there. I'm not counting our paid-for 1.3M home or the equity in our (lightly mortgaged) SFH rental properties. We're not racing anymore though, just cruising along, enjoying life, and the scenery, and smelling the roses.

Dicey, if you don't mind my asking, how do you assign a value to your husband's defined benefit pension? My husband should get about $27K/year (flat,non-COLA'd,

 I don't want to through a monkeywrench in here, but I went searching for a calculator that would give me the buying power of $27k with 13 years inflation at 3%. After 3 different searches I didn't find it!
 I put $27,000 in Excel and subtracted 3%,  13 times and got $18,172.
At 4% I got $15,881. At 5%, 1/2 of your buying power is gone, ($13,860)
  While I was at it, I ran the proverbial $40,000 of income for an MMM after 13 years @ 3%.
I get $58,741 or $1,469,000  required nestegg.
  It will be fine if someone checks my numbers, my logic doesn't always compute.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on November 29, 2017, 05:38:53 PM
It's all lifestyles of the rich and famous on this thread.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: AdrianC on November 30, 2017, 09:04:51 AM
That cost of healthcare [$1750/mo] scares the crap out of me.  I'd hoped 500k invested could be enough to cover health costs at a 4% withdrawal rate.   Maybe I'll need to up that amount.
Right now, as long as you keep your income down you'll qualify for a subsidy. I haven't managed it yet, but next year I'm projecting a subsidy of $1000/mo on a Bronze policy costing $1320/mo. That's pretty nice.

For 2019 who knows? My FIRE plan includes for healthcare costs rising at 13% per year and spending our deductible each year. I thought that was reasonable...until this years 80% increase in premiums if we stayed Silver with no subsidy.

Race to $5M?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on November 30, 2017, 09:13:52 AM
It's all lifestyles of the rich and famous frugal on this thread.
FTFY
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on November 30, 2017, 11:27:12 AM
It's all lifestyles of the rich and famous frugal on this thread.
FTFY

Ha that's better.  I don't think many of us are famous ( but who knows )! 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on December 01, 2017, 09:00:41 AM
We just hit the 3M mark, but I'm including the equity in our house. Background: I'm 41, my husband is 50. We both work in tech, and live in a VHCOL. Almost half of that 3M is in our 401Ks. The rest is split between liquid investments & home equity. My plan is to start spending down the liquid (if needed), as I'll be quitting my high paying job in June. I think our net worth will stay roughly the same, as our investments will grow, and my husband is hitting the sweet spot of his stock vesting schedule.

From a timing perspective, our net worth grew as follows (and, using the numbers I have available on my tracking chart - not because they are particularly round). The large increases are mostly due to stock vests.
-1/11 - $790K
-2/13 - $1,025,000
-10/14 - $1,514,000
-5/15 - $2,056,000
-11/16 - $2,381,000
-12/17 - $3,098,000
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on December 01, 2017, 09:05:47 AM
It's all lifestyles of the rich and famous frugal on this thread.
FTFY

Ha that's better.  I don't think many of us are famous ( but who knows )!
I suspect even if there are famous folk here, they'd value frugality over fame. Otherwise, why would they be here?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on December 01, 2017, 11:54:17 AM
We just hit the 3M mark, but I'm including the equity in our house. Background: I'm 41, my husband is 50. We both work in tech, and live in a VHCOL. Almost half of that 3M is in our 401Ks. The rest is split between liquid investments & home equity. My plan is to start spending down the liquid (if needed), as I'll be quitting my high paying job in June. I think our net worth will stay roughly the same, as our investments will grow, and my husband is hitting the sweet spot of his stock vesting schedule.

From a timing perspective, our net worth grew as follows (and, using the numbers I have available on my tracking chart - not because they are particularly round). The large increases are mostly due to stock vests.
-1/11 - $790K
-2/13 - $1,025,000
-10/14 - $1,514,000
-5/15 - $2,056,000
-11/16 - $2,381,000
-12/17 - $3,098,000

+700K in the past year. You must be getting nose bleeds!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on December 01, 2017, 12:18:55 PM
We just hit the 3M mark, but I'm including the equity in our house. Background: I'm 41, my husband is 50. We both work in tech, and live in a VHCOL. Almost half of that 3M is in our 401Ks. The rest is split between liquid investments & home equity. My plan is to start spending down the liquid (if needed), as I'll be quitting my high paying job in June. I think our net worth will stay roughly the same, as our investments will grow, and my husband is hitting the sweet spot of his stock vesting schedule.

From a timing perspective, our net worth grew as follows (and, using the numbers I have available on my tracking chart - not because they are particularly round). The large increases are mostly due to stock vests.
-1/11 - $790K
-2/13 - $1,025,000
-10/14 - $1,514,000
-5/15 - $2,056,000
-11/16 - $2,381,000
-12/17 - $3,098,000

+700K in the past year. You must be getting nose bleeds!

We can only take some of the credit. The company we (both) work for has had quite a stock increase. Which has led to our vested (unsold) options being worth quite a bit more. And, I'm finally really accruing meaningful options, which was tougher a few years ago when we were both newer to the company. But, the gravy train will be slowing down very quickly once I leave (planned date of end of June, 2018)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on December 04, 2017, 08:32:48 AM
Have the options been exercised, or is that the book value of the unexercised option?

 If the latter have you accounted for the tax liability on the options... if any is triggered on vesting or exercising.

Itís hard to imagine growing NW by $700k without a similarly hefty tax bill.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on December 04, 2017, 01:36:32 PM
Have the options been exercised, or is that the book value of the unexercised option?

 If the latter have you accounted for the tax liability on the options... if any is triggered on vesting or exercising.

Itís hard to imagine growing NW by $700k without a similarly hefty tax bill.

These are exercised options. We have the taxes automatically withheld before sale. There is a marginal amount left after that, which we save for, but our taxes for the holding is set & not adjustable. This isn't our first year of stock - our options have been vesting for four years. The amount has just grown more meaningful given length at the company.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on December 04, 2017, 07:01:24 PM
Nice!!!

Nothing more to be said really. Comgrats!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on December 04, 2017, 07:23:04 PM
To the east side (movin on up)
To a deluxe apartment in the sky.
Movin' on up (movin on up) To the east side (movin on up)
We finally got a piece of the pie.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=moving+on+up+to+the+east+side+lyrics&view=detail&mid=A95A073956BE39814DE9A95A073956BE39814DE9&FORM=VIRE
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: oldtoyota on December 04, 2017, 07:25:42 PM
Best part about being a Mustacian between $2M and $3M is that no one knows.
Mustacians in this savings bracket don't stick out as presenting an image of being "rich."
Most people who display the image of being rich really are living paycheck to paycheck.

A guy bought in iPhone 5 off me via Craigslist about a month ago. He was in the US from Costa Rica in order to skydive at 7 different locations. He drove a 1990s VW van (not old enough to have value and definitely not running well). He looked like a 50 year old hippy, yet I would wager that he is more financially independent than most of my gold-collar friends.

Stealth wealth is the place for me.  I'm just not comfortable letting people know my NW has crested 2M.  Since we still work it doesn't show much.  I shop at the dollar store and Goodwill.   My vehicle is 9 years old.  We haven't moved out of the home we bought in 1992.

Stealth wealth for me, too. I also shop at thrift stores, if I buy clothing at all, and my cars are oooolllld.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on December 04, 2017, 10:38:53 PM
I feel right at home in my soon to be 10 year old F250 XLT.  It will haul my stuff and I don't wash it.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on December 04, 2017, 11:16:25 PM
I feel right at home in my soon to be 10 year old F250 XLT.  It will haul my stuff and I don't wash it.

10 years old?.. our F250 was built in '89.. of course it uses so much gas we don't drive it much...:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on December 05, 2017, 09:20:28 AM
I hope to keep it a long time, 12 miles per gallon ain't very Mustacian.   We kept my wife's old Honda Accord,  190k miles.  Maybe I'll buy an electric car in a few years, never a new gasoline car for sure.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: GettingClose on December 05, 2017, 10:36:31 AM
With the security of the $3M stash achieved, I just negotiated an 8-week leave of absence, starting in late January.  I need to come in half a day a week to do some key management tasks, but can probably skip that a couple of times.

I don't plan to go anywhere; have been working since 1991 for the same company without ever taking more than 2.5 weeks off, and I'm just tired.  It's one big push or project after another. 

My plans:
1) work out 6 days/week. I already do 4-5x, but after working 9-10 hours, so I never do stretching or put in an extra 10 minutes.
2) cook dinner every night
3) convert all my photo albums over the years to Shutterfly books
4) do what yardwork can be done, depending on the weather
5) spend much more time with my grandkids
6) read a lot
7) maybe scan all receipts, tax forms, etc, in two big filing cabinets, to permanently eliminate that clutter.   This is 25 years' worth ... Does anyone have any experience with good software/hardware for doing this?

So excited!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on December 05, 2017, 11:31:39 AM
Hmmm, excited about filing.... canít see that ever happening to me.

Whilst not exactly going completely crazy with consumption, I would say that DW and I are quite conspicuous with our financial good fortune, unlike most here.

Our income is quite high (not as high as some, but higher than most), and I am perfectly happy with us spending half and saving half. I monitor our money closely but havenít felt the need to real in spending.

We blow a big chunk of earnings on travel to all sorts of exotic locations all over the world, which we then facebrag about shamelessly in a very un moustachian way..... this is the main way we are conspicuous.

I am a little embarrassed at our financial good fortune, and by how much we spend on travel, but YOLO (blush) and there is nothing else we particularly want to spend the money on.

We share 1 car and itís almost 6 years old. Our last car we kept for 12 years. We donít spend much on clothes or furniture or other junk. Itís not hard for us to save half of what we earn and still travel to wherever we want, even if itís only for a few days, making the cost per day ridiculous.

Despite this flaunting of spending power, I donít think I could ever get the courage to tell anyone straight up what my net worth is. Itís not even that high, but still higher than most could ever accumulate.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: GettingClose on December 05, 2017, 11:43:57 AM
Quote
Hmmm, excited about filing.... canít see that ever happening to me.

Hahaha! The excitement wasn't related to filing :-)

We're not overly mustachian either, our (hopefully soon to be sold) house is ridiculous for two people, and we travel quite a bit, too.  However we drive older used cars, do our own yardwork, re-use, recycle, and comparison shop.  We too could never mention net worth, or that the house is paid off, etc.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on December 05, 2017, 12:04:42 PM
With the security of the $3M stash achieved, I just negotiated an 8-week leave of absence, starting in late January.  I need to come in half a day a week to do some key management tasks, but can probably skip that a couple of times.

I don't plan to go anywhere; have been working since 1991 for the same company without ever taking more than 2.5 weeks off, and I'm just tired.  It's one big push or project after another. 

My plans:
1) work out 6 days/week. I already do 4-5x, but after working 9-10 hours, so I never do stretching or put in an extra 10 minutes.
2) cook dinner every night
3) convert all my photo albums over the years to Shutterfly books
4) do what yardwork can be done, depending on the weather
5) spend much more time with my grandkids
6) read a lot
7) maybe scan all receipts, tax forms, etc, in two big filing cabinets, to permanently eliminate that clutter.   This is 25 years' worth ... Does anyone have any experience with good software/hardware for doing this?

So excited!

Wow only 2.5 weeks a year vacation?  No disrespect, but maybe that's why you are tired! 

I have also worked since 1992 at the same job ( tech firm ).  And while it is a high pressure job, I *always* take all of my vacation.  To me, it is one of the key ways I can keep my sanity while working here.  Some of the 'workaholics' don't always like it but I tell them that the company gives us vacation for a reason...lol.

As far as scanning receipts and such...we don't do that.  We charge everything and the credit card summary is enough of a record of what we spent money on.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on December 05, 2017, 02:01:12 PM
With the security of the $3M stash achieved, I just negotiated an 8-week leave of absence, starting in late January.  I need to come in half a day a week to do some key management tasks, but can probably skip that a couple of times.

I don't plan to go anywhere; have been working since 1991 for the same company without ever taking more than 2.5 weeks off, and I'm just tired.  It's one big push or project after another. 

My plans:
1) work out 6 days/week. I already do 4-5x, but after working 9-10 hours, so I never do stretching or put in an extra 10 minutes.
2) cook dinner every night
3) convert all my photo albums over the years to Shutterfly books
4) do what yardwork can be done, depending on the weather
5) spend much more time with my grandkids
6) read a lot
7) maybe scan all receipts, tax forms, etc, in two big filing cabinets, to permanently eliminate that clutter.   This is 25 years' worth ... Does anyone have any experience with good software/hardware for doing this?
8) Take lots of naps

So excited!

Wow only 2.5 weeks a year vacation?  No disrespect, but maybe that's why you are tired! I hope OP means 2.5 weeks at a time, not total per year. If you're reading it correctly, that would be so, so sad!

I have also worked since 1992 at the same job ( tech firm ).  And while it is a high pressure job, I *always* take all of my vacation.  To me, it is one of the key ways I can keep my sanity while working here.  Some of the 'workaholics' don't always like it but I tell them that the company gives us vacation for a reason...lol. Great response!

As far as scanning receipts and such...we don't do that.  We charge everything and the credit card summary is enough of a record of what we spent money on. Erm, I'm guessing this indicates you have never been audited? This is NOT a Best Practice #askmehowIknow

Getting Close, you missed one. FTFY.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: GettingClose on December 05, 2017, 02:20:34 PM
With the security of the $3M stash achieved, I just negotiated an 8-week leave of absence, starting in late January.  I need to come in half a day a week to do some key management tasks, but can probably skip that a couple of times.

I don't plan to go anywhere; have been working since 1991 for the same company without ever taking more than 2.5 weeks off, and I'm just tired.  It's one big push or project after another. 

My plans:
1) work out 6 days/week. I already do 4-5x, but after working 9-10 hours, so I never do stretching or put in an extra 10 minutes.
2) cook dinner every night
3) convert all my photo albums over the years to Shutterfly books
4) do what yardwork can be done, depending on the weather
5) spend much more time with my grandkids
6) read a lot
7) maybe scan all receipts, tax forms, etc, in two big filing cabinets, to permanently eliminate that clutter.   This is 25 years' worth ... Does anyone have any experience with good software/hardware for doing this?
8) Take lots of naps and drink lots of hot chocolate

So excited!

Wow only 2.5 weeks a year vacation?  No disrespect, but maybe that's why you are tired! I hope OP means 2.5 weeks at a time, not total per year. If you're reading it correctly, that would be so, so sad! Yes, I have 5 weeks of PTO + 10 paid holidays, and I do take it all.

I have also worked since 1992 at the same job ( tech firm ).  And while it is a high pressure job, I *always* take all of my vacation.  To me, it is one of the key ways I can keep my sanity while working here.  Some of the 'workaholics' don't always like it but I tell them that the company gives us vacation for a reason...lol. Great response! Yes, the higher the pressure, the more vacation is needed.

As far as scanning receipts and such...we don't do that.  We charge everything and the credit card summary is enough of a record of what we spent money on. Erm, I'm guessing this indicates you have never been audited? This is NOT a Best Practice #askmehowIknow

Getting Close, you missed one. FTFY.  I appreciate that :-)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on December 06, 2017, 07:34:43 AM
With the security of the $3M stash achieved, I just negotiated an 8-week leave of absence, starting in late January.  I need to come in half a day a week to do some key management tasks, but can probably skip that a couple of times.

I don't plan to go anywhere; have been working since 1991 for the same company without ever taking more than 2.5 weeks off, and I'm just tired.  It's one big push or project after another. 

My plans:
1) work out 6 days/week. I already do 4-5x, but after working 9-10 hours, so I never do stretching or put in an extra 10 minutes.
2) cook dinner every night
3) convert all my photo albums over the years to Shutterfly books
4) do what yardwork can be done, depending on the weather
5) spend much more time with my grandkids
6) read a lot
7) maybe scan all receipts, tax forms, etc, in two big filing cabinets, to permanently eliminate that clutter.   This is 25 years' worth ... Does anyone have any experience with good software/hardware for doing this?
8) Take lots of naps and drink lots of hot chocolate

So excited!

Wow only 2.5 weeks a year vacation?  No disrespect, but maybe that's why you are tired! I hope OP means 2.5 weeks at a time, not total per year. If you're reading it correctly, that would be so, so sad! Yes, I have 5 weeks of PTO + 10 paid holidays, and I do take it all.

I have also worked since 1992 at the same job ( tech firm ).  And while it is a high pressure job, I *always* take all of my vacation.  To me, it is one of the key ways I can keep my sanity while working here.  Some of the 'workaholics' don't always like it but I tell them that the company gives us vacation for a reason...lol. Great response! Yes, the higher the pressure, the more vacation is needed.

As far as scanning receipts and such...we don't do that.  We charge everything and the credit card summary is enough of a record of what we spent money on. Erm, I'm guessing this indicates you have never been audited? This is NOT a Best Practice #askmehowIknow

Getting Close, you missed one. FTFY.  I appreciate that :-)

Whew! Glad you do take advantage of your vacation.  You scared me there for a minute. :-)

Like I mentioned, where I work, there are MANY ( often grumpy ) people who use very little vacation.  It boggles my mind and I'm not afraid to tell them ( in a gentle way ) why they might be a little bit 'grumpy'. 

As for the receipt scanning thing...I'm aware that it's probably not a 'best practice'.  However, I also know that very, very few people do it.  An excuse?  Absolutely...but I guess I'll take my chances.

And one more thing.  As I get closer to FI....or have already arrived, I feel less and less pressure on the job.  I'm not sure that is a good thing...because I also feel less motivated! 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: JoJoP on December 06, 2017, 09:10:51 AM
Hmmm, excited about filing.... canít see that ever happening to me.

Whilst not exactly going completely crazy with consumption, I would say that DW and I are quite conspicuous with our financial good fortune, unlike most here.

Our income is quite high (not as high as some, but higher than most), and I am perfectly happy with us spending half and saving half. I monitor our money closely but havenít felt the need to real in spending.

We blow a big chunk of earnings on travel to all sorts of exotic locations all over the world, which we then facebrag about shamelessly in a very un moustachian way..... this is the main way we are conspicuous.

I am a little embarrassed at our financial good fortune, and by how much we spend on travel, but YOLO (blush) and there is nothing else we particularly want to spend the money on.

We share 1 car and itís almost 6 years old. Our last car we kept for 12 years. We donít spend much on clothes or furniture or other junk. Itís not hard for us to save half of what we earn and still travel to wherever we want, even if itís only for a few days, making the cost per day ridiculous.

Despite this flaunting of spending power, I donít think I could ever get the courage to tell anyone straight up what my net worth is. Itís not even that high, but still higher than most could ever accumulate.

If you're saving half of what you earn, that seems pretty great by any standards.

So, where do you like to travel to?    We're travelers, also.  We don't brag about our travels, and try to emphasize the frugality of our adventures.  (Thailand!  5 dollars for a full 3 course dinner!)  We're extremely frequent travelers (I filled a passport in 4 years), and that is hard to downplay when one is unavailable to go to a movie or dinner, because they are out of the country.  Currently we're traveling internationally about 6 times a year, mostly to Europe, with other destinations sprinkled in.  It's a dream come true.  We are not high budget travelers, though, and have found that we can travel Europe for about half what it costs to do the same thing at home.  I've stayed in 1000 year old castles for less than $50 a night. But frugal is who we are.  We can talk for 20 minutes over the merits of a $40 vs. $60 hotel room, and often do.   We do fancy hotels occasionally, but only if some sort of amazing bargain was found.  10 cents on the dollar is about right to lure me.
Really, having a high NW is a blessing.  We have earned every penny, made good choices over decades, had some good fortune (along with plenty of mistakes), and worked hard (yes, yes we did!).   Frugality got us here, and that doesn't change with more money tossed in.   We help our family, including taking them on trips and making generous gifts.   Our kids get a good college education and we don't have to scrimp because of it.  We drive dependable vehicles, albeit until they die or become less dependable.  We live in a nice house with nice stuff, go on trips, enjoy ourselves,  AND can still spread it around.   

As far as  actually spilling the NW value... DON"T!  Talk to us instead!   Some friends of mine recently sold a business and the gossip was that it sold at a 1.5 million price tag.  It pricks up everybody's ears, including mine.  They are living frugally compared to most, and that's a topic for the spendthrifts in and of itself.  The green monster lifts his head over these topics.  Financial success is just so rare in this world, that it's an alluring topic.   
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: JoJoP on December 06, 2017, 09:40:48 AM
[

My plans:
1) work out 6 days/week. I already do 4-5x, but after working 9-10 hours, so I never do stretching or put in an extra 10 minutes.
2) cook dinner every night
3) convert all my photo albums over the years to Shutterfly books
4) do what yardwork can be done, depending on the weather
5) spend much more time with my grandkids
6) read a lot
7) maybe scan all receipts, tax forms, etc, in two big filing cabinets, to permanently eliminate that clutter.   This is 25 years' worth ... Does anyone have any experience with good software/hardware for doing this?
8) Take lots of naps and drink lots of hot chocolate

So excited!
[/quote]
  That should be very gratifying.  We are winding down our work, too, and it's so nice to be able to tackle all the things that have been low on the priority list.  For me, it was my garden and de-cluttering.  The garden is thriving, and most of it was planted earlier this year.   I wanted to emphasize native plants that are bird, bee and butterfly friendly.  It's like a little ecosystem out there.   It's so rewarding! 

Quote
And one more thing.  As I get closer to FI....or have already arrived, I feel less and less pressure on the job.  I'm not sure that is a good thing...because I also feel less motivated!

Sounds great!  Time is like closet space- you'll fill it with the tasks at hand.  Enjoy the R & R, and congrats!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on December 06, 2017, 11:50:52 AM
Hmmm, excited about filing.... canít see that ever happening to me.

Whilst not exactly going completely crazy with consumption, I would say that DW and I are quite conspicuous with our financial good fortune, unlike most here.

Our income is quite high (not as high as some, but higher than most), and I am perfectly happy with us spending half and saving half. I monitor our money closely but havenít felt the need to real in spending.

We blow a big chunk of earnings on travel to all sorts of exotic locations all over the world, which we then facebrag about shamelessly in a very un moustachian way..... this is the main way we are conspicuous.

I am a little embarrassed at our financial good fortune, and by how much we spend on travel, but YOLO (blush) and there is nothing else we particularly want to spend the money on.

We share 1 car and itís almost 6 years old. Our last car we kept for 12 years. We donít spend much on clothes or furniture or other junk. Itís not hard for us to save half of what we earn and still travel to wherever we want, even if itís only for a few days, making the cost per day ridiculous.

Despite this flaunting of spending power, I donít think I could ever get the courage to tell anyone straight up what my net worth is. Itís not even that high, but still higher than most could ever accumulate.

If you're saving half of what you earn, that seems pretty great by any standards.

So, where do you like to travel to?    We're travelers, also.  We don't brag about our travels, and try to emphasize the frugality of our adventures.  (Thailand!  5 dollars for a full 3 course dinner!)  We're extremely frequent travelers (I filled a passport in 4 years), and that is hard to downplay when one is unavailable to go to a movie or dinner, because they are out of the country.  Currently we're traveling internationally about 6 times a year, mostly to Europe, with other destinations sprinkled in.  It's a dream come true.  We are not high budget travelers, though, and have found that we can travel Europe for about half what it costs to do the same thing at home.  I've stayed in 1000 year old castles for less than $50 a night. But frugal is who we are.  We can talk for 20 minutes over the merits of a $40 vs. $60 hotel room, and often do.   We do fancy hotels occasionally, but only if some sort of amazing bargain was found.  10 cents on the dollar is about right to lure me.
Really, having a high NW is a blessing.  We have earned every penny, made good choices over decades, had some good fortune (along with plenty of mistakes), and worked hard (yes, yes we did!).   Frugality got us here, and that doesn't change with more money tossed in.   We help our family, including taking them on trips and making generous gifts.   Our kids get a good college education and we don't have to scrimp because of it.  We drive dependable vehicles, albeit until they die or become less dependable.  We live in a nice house with nice stuff, go on trips, enjoy ourselves,  AND can still spread it around.   

As far as  actually spilling the NW value... DON"T!  Talk to us instead!   Some friends of mine recently sold a business and the gossip was that it sold at a 1.5 million price tag.  It pricks up everybody's ears, including mine.  They are living frugally compared to most, and that's a topic for the spendthrifts in and of itself.  The green monster lifts his head over these topics.  Financial success is just so rare in this world, that it's an alluring topic.

We travel wherever takes our fancy. Sometimes we go el cheapo, sometimes not.

Last week I had some business in France, so I organised to meet DW in Finland afterwards and we flew up to Lapland to do a husky safari and squeeze in a little skiing. We squeezed a lot into 4 days and had an awesome time.

We keep saying we should spend less on travel, but then some opportunity presents itself and we just keep concluding that we have never regretted the things we have done, just the things we didnít do. Hence, I try to make that list as short as possible.

At the end of it all we might have to work an extra year compared to what would have been the case if we had passed on all the travel opportunities and stuck to 1 overseas trip every couple of years. Working the extra year is the right choice for us.

Retiring at 46 or at 47 is much of a muchness, and we have had a life full of incredible experiences exploring the world. We would never wish to have replaced our experiences with a couple of hundred grand extra in the bank..... but these are the words of someone who got pretty lucky on the money front.... yes there was hard work, persistence, risk taking and good decision making involved, also a fair amount of stress and way too many hours sitting in airport terminals........but also a fat slab of good fortune.

In 2 weeks we fly to Sydney. Yay!

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: GettingClose on December 06, 2017, 02:03:16 PM
Quote
Last week I had some business in France, so I organised to meet DW in Finland afterwards and we flew up to Lapland to do a husky safari and squeeze in a little skiing. We squeezed a lot into 4 days and had an awesome time.

We keep saying we should spend less on travel, but then some opportunity presents itself and we just keep concluding that we have never regretted the things we have done, just the things we didnít do. Hence, I try to make that list as short as possible.

At the end of it all we might have to work an extra year compared to what would have been the case if we had passed on all the travel opportunities and stuck to 1 overseas trip every couple of years. Working the extra year is the right choice for us.

Sounds like a good balance of "now" and "later".

Quote
Retiring at 46 or at 47 is much of a muchness, and we have had a life full of incredible experiences exploring the world.
I'm right around these ages ... when did you FIRE?

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on December 06, 2017, 08:02:59 PM
Quote
Last week I had some business in France, so I organised to meet DW in Finland afterwards and we flew up to Lapland to do a husky safari and squeeze in a little skiing. We squeezed a lot into 4 days and had an awesome time.

We keep saying we should spend less on travel, but then some opportunity presents itself and we just keep concluding that we have never regretted the things we have done, just the things we didnít do. Hence, I try to make that list as short as possible.

At the end of it all we might have to work an extra year compared to what would have been the case if we had passed on all the travel opportunities and stuck to 1 overseas trip every couple of years. Working the extra year is the right choice for us.

Sounds like a good balance of "now" and "later".

Quote
Retiring at 46 or at 47 is much of a muchness, and we have had a life full of incredible experiences exploring the world.
I'm right around these ages ... when did you FIRE?

Planning to FIRE mid 2019. Still working and squeezing in life around the demands of my employer.

I am fortunate to get 6 weeks leave a year, plus the 10 public holidays here, so effectively 8 weeks of adventures each year, but split into smallish chucks. Looking forward to slowing things down post FIRE. Maybe half the trips, but each trip triple the duration.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Secretly Saving on December 06, 2017, 08:13:40 PM
Hmmm, excited about filing.... canít see that ever happening to me.

Whilst not exactly going completely crazy with consumption, I would say that DW and I are quite conspicuous with our financial good fortune, unlike most here.

Our income is quite high (not as high as some, but higher than most), and I am perfectly happy with us spending half and saving half. I monitor our money closely but havenít felt the need to real in spending.

We blow a big chunk of earnings on travel to all sorts of exotic locations all over the world, which we then facebrag about shamelessly in a very un moustachian way..... this is the main way we are conspicuous.

I am a little embarrassed at our financial good fortune, and by how much we spend on travel, but YOLO (blush) and there is nothing else we particularly want to spend the money on.

We share 1 car and itís almost 6 years old. Our last car we kept for 12 years. We donít spend much on clothes or furniture or other junk. Itís not hard for us to save half of what we earn and still travel to wherever we want, even if itís only for a few days, making the cost per day ridiculous.

Despite this flaunting of spending power, I donít think I could ever get the courage to tell anyone straight up what my net worth is. Itís not even that high, but still higher than most could ever accumulate.

If you're saving half of what you earn, that seems pretty great by any standards.

So, where do you like to travel to?    We're travelers, also.  We don't brag about our travels, and try to emphasize the frugality of our adventures.  (Thailand!  5 dollars for a full 3 course dinner!)  We're extremely frequent travelers (I filled a passport in 4 years), and that is hard to downplay when one is unavailable to go to a movie or dinner, because they are out of the country.  Currently we're traveling internationally about 6 times a year, mostly to Europe, with other destinations sprinkled in.  It's a dream come true.  We are not high budget travelers, though, and have found that we can travel Europe for about half what it costs to do the same thing at home.  I've stayed in 1000 year old castles for less than $50 a night. But frugal is who we are.  We can talk for 20 minutes over the merits of a $40 vs. $60 hotel room, and often do.   We do fancy hotels occasionally, but only if some sort of amazing bargain was found.  10 cents on the dollar is about right to lure me.
Really, having a high NW is a blessing.  We have earned every penny, made good choices over decades, had some good fortune (along with plenty of mistakes), and worked hard (yes, yes we did!).   Frugality got us here, and that doesn't change with more money tossed in.   We help our family, including taking them on trips and making generous gifts.   Our kids get a good college education and we don't have to scrimp because of it.  We drive dependable vehicles, albeit until they die or become less dependable.  We live in a nice house with nice stuff, go on trips, enjoy ourselves,  AND can still spread it around.   

As far as  actually spilling the NW value... DON"T!  Talk to us instead!   Some friends of mine recently sold a business and the gossip was that it sold at a 1.5 million price tag.  It pricks up everybody's ears, including mine.  They are living frugally compared to most, and that's a topic for the spendthrifts in and of itself.  The green monster lifts his head over these topics.  Financial success is just so rare in this world, that it's an alluring topic.

Jill P, I'd love to hear about your favorite places -- 1000 year old castles and more all on a budget!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on December 06, 2017, 09:41:36 PM
Please share your travel stories.   My wife and I haven't traveled much at all.  Just too busy with work and family.   I'd love to strike out upon the world as a nomad.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: PhrugalPhan on December 06, 2017, 09:47:54 PM
I read this complete thread and enjoyed reading about how you can calculate your 'stache.  As I only have about $850k in all of my accounts I didn't think I could fit in here, then I reconsidered.  Maybe the group can say if this makes sense.

Here goes.... while I am single, I am in a 6+ year relationship where she is going to move in with me when she retires.  My GF has just over $1 Mil in her TSP & inherited IRA (about $1.01 Mil right now).  Since most people include significant others, if you combine our 'staches we have about $1.85Mil.

In addition we both have pensions at our jobs.  She is a Fed and can retire at the end of 2018 with a $30k/year payout for life with a COLA (and mostly paid for health insurance).  Using the 25X multiplier, that would be an approximate $750k 'stache addition.

And then I have a pension I am working towards as well.  Its a solid local government pension.  I am currently vested at $29k/yr and if I continue working 5 more years I can get it right away and will probably be $40k/year.  If I left now, I have to wait a decade to start getting it.  If I take the $29k/year, use the 25X multiplier, and discount it by 25% (I figure that's a conservative number?), that gives me $543k to add to a 'stache. 

Is it safe to say we already have an $3+ Mil 'stache?  That seems crazy beyond belief.  I also have a paid off house that comps in at about $350k too.  I didn't mean to write and brag, but while I knew we wouldn't have to worry about money really, I had no idea we could consider that we are worth this amount.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on December 07, 2017, 06:26:15 AM
Sounds like you've jumped right through the $3M point.  Waiting for someone to start a $3M->$4M thread.  I know some here are reluctant, taking to heart the MMM story.  How could anyone have more than $1M and not retire?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on December 07, 2017, 08:44:13 AM
I read this complete thread and enjoyed reading about how you can calculate your 'stache.  As I only have about $850k in all of my accounts I didn't think I could fit in here, then I reconsidered.  Maybe the group can say if this makes sense.

Here goes.... while I am single, I am in a 6+ year relationship where she is going to move in with me when she retires.  My GF has just over $1 Mil in her TSP & inherited IRA (about $1.01 Mil right now).  Since most people include significant others, if you combine our 'staches we have about $1.85Mil.

In addition we both have pensions at our jobs.  She is a Fed and can retire at the end of 2018 with a $30k/year payout for life with a COLA (and mostly paid for health insurance).  Using the 25X multiplier, that would be an approximate $750k 'stache addition.

And then I have a pension I am working towards as well.  Its a solid local government pension.  I am currently vested at $29k/yr and if I continue working 5 more years I can get it right away and will probably be $40k/year.  If I left now, I have to wait a decade to start getting it.  If I take the $29k/year, use the 25X multiplier, and discount it by 25% (I figure that's a conservative number?), that gives me $543k to add to a 'stache. 

Is it safe to say we already have an $3+ Mil 'stache?  That seems crazy beyond belief.  I also have a paid off house that comps in at about $350k too.  I didn't mean to write and brag, but while I knew we wouldn't have to worry about money really, I had no idea we could consider that we are worth this amount.

Looks like you fit in fine here!  The numbers are just a general guideline...people calculate in different ways and differ on what they include in the 'final number'.

As for us, I am not currently counting my wife's pension...only 'investable assets' and the paid-off house...to arrive at our 2.4M number.  Adding in her pension would result in a greater number...but who cares?   One could also factor in future Social Security income..but none really do ( however, pretty much any retirement planner does...like personal capital, etc... ).

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on December 07, 2017, 05:53:53 PM
I haven't seen any hard set rules on how to tabulate your wealth as a requirement to pos5 here.  I toss in paid off real estate to make the cut.  We all welcome your input.   I know I've personally learned a ton from these folks.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on December 07, 2017, 10:50:42 PM
Yes same here.. I tend to include the current value of pensions because that turns into real income which is what we want our Stash to do as well.

 I tend to exclude the house because we are more than likely to stay here for the forseable future despite dreams to the contrary, even then we still need somewhere to live. Its also hard to value because there are few comps to our little farmette.

I any case

Stash - $1.94m
Pensions - about $0.51m
House -- about $0.4m or so.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on December 07, 2017, 10:59:49 PM
After years of budgeting and watching the pennies, we are richer now than we ever imagined possible. We realized that between RMD's, DH's pension w/ COLA and health benefits, and Social Security, we stand to make more per year in retirement than we ever did working. Therefore, I don't count every penny of NW, because we have "Enough". I think we could level up if a new thread was started, but I'd have to calculate and include the value of his pension, which I am too lazy to do.

I like following along on the $500k --->$1M, and the $1M--->$2M threads too. It's fun to see people making good decisions and great progress!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Secretly Saving on December 08, 2017, 04:52:52 AM
After years of budgeting and watching the pennies, we are richer now than we ever imagined possible. We realized that between RMD's, DH's pension w/ COLA and health benefits, and Social Security, we stand to make more per year in retirement than we ever did working. Therefore, I don't count every penny of NW, because we have "Enough". I think we could level up if a new thread was started, but I'd have to calculate and include the value of his pension, which I am too lazy to do.

I like following along on the $500k --->$1M, and the $1M--->$2M threads too. It's fun to see people making good decisions and great progress!

Yes, it is fun to celebrate other's successes!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on December 08, 2017, 07:49:06 AM
Yes same here.. I tend to include the current value of pensions because that turns into real income which is what we want our Stash to do as well.

 I tend to exclude the house because we are more than likely to stay here for the forseable future despite dreams to the contrary, even then we still need somewhere to live. Its also hard to value because there are few comps to our little farmette.

I any case

Stash - $1.94m
Pensions - about $0.51m
House -- about $0.4m or so.


The problem I have with pensions is personal.  Mine went away...taken by a big corporation when they 'restructured'.   Instead, they gave us a cash balance plan with NO control and they only pay 'market rate' (i.e. - crappy) interest payments to it.   BTW this has happened to millions in the last decade or two....even to people near retirement who were really were counting on the income.  Many of my coworkers fell into this trap and it was extremely sad to see.  Luckily, I was younger at the time.

If you think your pension is safe then I can see adding it in.  However, if for any reason it might not be safe, I'd err on the side of caution.  BTW this is also why many younger folks don't factor in Social Security and treat it as an extra...they fear that it very well might not be around when the time comes.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on December 08, 2017, 11:04:36 AM
If I ever make it $3M.... even $3M Aussie rupees, Iíll start a $3M-$4M thread just cause I could 😁. There seems to be a bunch of you that could do so today!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on December 08, 2017, 01:03:57 PM
Yes same here.. I tend to include the current value of pensions because that turns into real income which is what we want our Stash to do as well.

 I tend to exclude the house because we are more than likely to stay here for the forseable future despite dreams to the contrary, even then we still need somewhere to live. Its also hard to value because there are few comps to our little farmette.

I any case

Stash - $1.94m
Pensions - about $0.51m
House -- about $0.4m or so.


The problem I have with pensions is personal.  Mine went away...taken by a big corporation when they 'restructured'.   Instead, they gave us a cash balance plan with NO control and they only pay 'market rate' (i.e. - crappy) interest payments to it.   BTW this has happened to millions in the last decade or two....even to people near retirement who were really were counting on the income.  Many of my coworkers fell into this trap and it was extremely sad to see.  Luckily, I was younger at the time.

If you think your pension is safe then I can see adding it in.  However, if for any reason it might not be safe, I'd err on the side of caution.  BTW this is also why many younger folks don't factor in Social Security and treat it as an extra...they fear that it very well might not be around when the time comes.

Good point.. How that can be legal is beyond me.. But then again nothing should amaze me in the USA Oligarchy.. Place is run by criminals.

Fortunately for us, DW's pension is State funded in Oregon so it (and one day it will) would have to go bankrupt. Secondly, my UK pension is much better protected and backed by the Government to 90% (100% after I start drawing it). I guess those "evil Socialists" don't take very kindly to big company's stealing their employee pensions.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on December 08, 2017, 01:40:16 PM
Yes same here.. I tend to include the current value of pensions because that turns into real income which is what we want our Stash to do as well.

 I tend to exclude the house because we are more than likely to stay here for the forseable future despite dreams to the contrary, even then we still need somewhere to live. Its also hard to value because there are few comps to our little farmette.

I any case

Stash - $1.94m
Pensions - about $0.51m
House -- about $0.4m or so.


The problem I have with pensions is personal.  Mine went away...taken by a big corporation when they 'restructured'.   Instead, they gave us a cash balance plan with NO control and they only pay 'market rate' (i.e. - crappy) interest payments to it.   BTW this has happened to millions in the last decade or two....even to people near retirement who were really were counting on the income.  Many of my coworkers fell into this trap and it was extremely sad to see.  Luckily, I was younger at the time.

If you think your pension is safe then I can see adding it in.  However, if for any reason it might not be safe, I'd err on the side of caution.  BTW this is also why many younger folks don't factor in Social Security and treat it as an extra...they fear that it very well might not be around when the time comes.

Good point.. How that can be legal is beyond me.. But then again nothing should amaze me in the USA Oligarchy.. Place is run by criminals.

Fortunately for us, DW's pension is State funded in Oregon so it (and one day it will) would have to go bankrupt. Secondly, my UK pension is much better protected and backed by the Government to 90% (100% after I start drawing it). I guess those "evil Socialists" don't take very kindly to big company's stealing their employee pensions.

This happened to me in (2012) 20 years into my career.   I only had 8 years (2020) to go to lock in 50% of my income for life at age 52.  Then the cash balance came.  They paid me $165,000 for 20 years of service into their new plan with a 5% rate of interest.  It's grown with contributions to 331K currently.  I make about 120k a year.  The math here isn't even close.  We got legally screwed.  Many people I've worked with didn't save past the company match in the 401k if that.  You put in 6% they match 50% so most had a relative 9% if that.  They figured the 401k would be play money.  They'd get 60-75k from pension.  It's gone!  One guy I know is 54, has 90k in his 401k, never thought it would be important, wants to retire soon. He still has debt he's paying.   Same company, same opportunity  My 401k is over 10x larger than his.  I'm 49 and have worked less years for the company.  Great guy, really likeable and not a screw-up.  There are many just like him.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on December 08, 2017, 04:18:00 PM
State pensions and city pensions are all susceptible to being cut in a bankruptcy. City of Detroit employees had their pensions lowered due to the bankruptcy. The state of Illinois and the city of Chicago pensions may eventually be cut down in bankruptcy court.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on December 08, 2017, 04:31:33 PM
State pensions and city pensions are all susceptible to being cut in a bankruptcy. City of Detroit employees had their pensions lowered due to the bankruptcy. The state of Illinois and the city of Chicago pensions may eventually be cut down in bankruptcy court.

True, the State has visited court a few times trying to cut the benefits paid under PERs.. Each time they have been sent home with their tail between their legs. I think you'r right though, one day they will prevail.

Fortunately for us the Oregon pension is pretty small and the much better protected UK pension is somewhat larger.

Sounds like if the directors tried raiding the pension funds in the UK they would get a one way ticket to prison! They can't do it anyway because the pension funds have to be in a separate financial company.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on December 09, 2017, 06:00:22 AM
I just logged into my brokerage account and it is showing that the returns I have generated on my stock investments this year are a 18.94% pa.

That is pretty mind blowing, when there was a lot of predictions of flat or down markets for 2017 at the end of last year.

Itís unfortunate that all my NW is not sitting in my brokerage. Itís only about 20% of my NW at this time. Sigh.

A big chunk of my NW (50%) is in a few properties I own and these assets have performed no where near as well as stock in the past year, and values have in fact been declining over the past 6 months. 🙁

But in 2015 and 2016 my property investments performed far stronger than stocks. They were the assets providing 20% returns. I guess that is what diversification provides, a levelling out of volatility by investing across asset classes. My diversification is working so I have to be happy.

I have been slowly changing my investment mix away from property over the past few years, but it takes time.

I also have another big chunk in Australian Superannuation Funds (like 401K) (30% of NW) that is invested by the fund managers with a heavy skew to Australian stocks and Australian fixed interest, which have not performed particularly well in the past year relative to global markets, but still not too bad.

Overall my total portfolio returns have now slipped a smidge below 10% for the year with my properties dragging things down, and me carrying a bit of cash throughout the year. Of course if I could get 10% every year Iíd take it!

Still 19% on stocks WOW!!!.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on December 09, 2017, 07:48:21 AM
I just logged into my brokerage account and it is showing that the returns I have generated on my stock investments this year are a 18.94% pa.

That is pretty mind blowing, when there was a lot of predictions of flat or down markets for 2017 at the end of last year.

Itís unfortunate that all my NW is not sitting in my brokerage. Itís only about 20% of my NW at this time. Sigh.

A big chunk of my NW (50%) is in a few properties I own and these assets have performed no where near as well as stock in the past year, and values have in fact been declining over the past 6 months. 🙁

But in 2015 and 2016 my property investments performed far stronger than stocks. They were the assets providing 20% returns. I guess that is what diversification provides, a levelling out of volatility by investing across asset classes. My diversification is working so I have to be happy.

I have been slowly changing my investment mix away from property over the past few years, but it takes time.

I also have another big chunk in Australian Superannuation Funds (like 401K) (30% of NW) that is invested by the fund managers with a heavy skew to Australian stocks and Australian fixed interest, which have not performed particularly well in the past year relative to global markets, but still not too bad.

Overall my total portfolio returns have now slipped a smidge below 10% for the year with my properties dragging things down, and me carrying a bit of cash throughout the year. Of course if I could get 10% every year Iíd take it!

Still 19% on stocks WOW!!!.

I don't want to knock owning real assets.  I hope to buy a homestead for retirement soon.  Property gains are most easily made on the front end.  We do own property now, an old bayou fishing camp on stilts.   It was cheap and we fixed it up.  Now million dollar homes surround it and have really screwed up the atmosphere.
Stocks can be volatile, I certainly didn't expect a 23% return this year but that's where were at.  It's put us to within about 8% of our FIRE goal.  If I don't move out the goal.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on December 09, 2017, 11:42:49 AM
Sounds like you've jumped right through the $3M point.  Waiting for someone to start a $3M->$4M thread.  I know some here are reluctant, taking to heart the MMM story.  How could anyone have more than $1M and not retire?

I'll take a stab at the question. I was waiting to buy a house, after we'd relocated for work. It took close to 4 years before we could afford a house (super HCOL, Bay Area). Now that we have the house, I'm waiting to determine the full impact on our taxes, and our overall budget. Our house is insanely expensive, and the property tax is as well. We thought we had a good sense of our take home, but with the new tax bill, it's unclear what we'll be left with. We have both state tax as well as property tax, and it's tough to get a sense of how this will play out at our income level.

Aside from the financial sense, we needed to sell our rental property to fully fund the stache that will now allow me to retire/go part-time. That house sold in September. There's also the emotional side. My husband has had some uneasiness about me leaving a high paying job without a few details sorted. We've been working through all of those. I'm planning to FIRE in June of 2018. My husband won't FIRE, both based on desire, and because we have sevenish more years until our kids are out of school & we can sell this house.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: JoJoP on December 09, 2017, 09:15:39 PM
Welcome, @PhrugalPhan .  It's great to see this thread really coming to life.  Anyway you want to count it up is fine with us.    I hope they don't start a thread with a higher number because it would split the group. 

Somebody asked up thread about frugal travel, aka the high/low life.  We travel strictly on points, and then try to get out of tourist areas.   Also, destinations can be chosen for economic reasons-- that would mean NOT London, Paris, Rome, Iceland, or Hawaii.   Your dollar will stretch if you get out of the mainstream places.  Asia, Eastern Europe and Latin America are bargains.  Consider a housing swap or AirBnB rental.  If you have access to a basic kitchen, you can eat most of your meals in the room.   

@MaybeBabyMustache , it sounds like a prudent move to wait and see how things shake out after buying the pricey home.  You could give it a year or two before figuring out where best to move the pieces on your financial chessboard.    Is your rental showing a positive cash flow?  Would you have a big capital gain if you sold it? That could wipe out any reason to sell.  Can you keep it and take the slow route, meaning use the profit from the rental to pay down your mortgage, instead of selling it?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on December 10, 2017, 08:02:12 AM
Welcome, @PhrugalPhan .  It's great to see this thread really coming to life.  Anyway you want to count it up is fine with us.    I hope they don't start a thread with a higher number because it would split the group. 

Somebody asked up thread about frugal travel, aka the high/low life.  We travel strictly on points, and then try to get out of tourist areas.   Also, destinations can be chosen for economic reasons-- that would mean NOT London, Paris, Rome, Iceland, or Hawaii.   Your dollar will stretch if you get out of the mainstream places.  Asia, Eastern Europe and Latin America are bargains.  Consider a housing swap or AirBnB rental.  If you have access to a basic kitchen, you can eat most of your meals in the room.   

@MaybeBabyMustache , it sounds like a prudent move to wait and see how things shake out after buying the pricey home.  You could give it a year or two before figuring out where best to move the pieces on your financial chessboard.    Is your rental showing a positive cash flow?  Would you have a big capital gain if you sold it? That could wipe out any reason to sell.  Can you keep it and take the slow route, meaning use the profit from the rental to pay down your mortgage, instead of selling it?

The rental house is sold. :-) We sold it in September & cleared about $700K after taxes. We are still waiting for a final number after 2017 ends. But, that was the estimate our accountant gave us. I've set my FIRE date for June to give me the flexibility of making any last minute adjustments as needed, after taxes.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on December 10, 2017, 08:27:39 AM
^Nice number!^. Sounds like CA or East Coast Real Estate. (Sorry if you've mentioned it before) Hopefully the tax estimates were high and there will be a bit more fun money headed your way,
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: JoJoP on December 10, 2017, 09:03:49 AM


The rental house is sold. :-) We sold it in September & cleared about $700K after taxes. We are still waiting for a final number after 2017 ends. But, that was the estimate our accountant gave us. I've set my FIRE date for June to give me the flexibility of making any last minute adjustments as needed, after taxes.
[/quote]

Nice!  That's a chunk of change.  Are you paying down your mortgage with it? 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on December 10, 2017, 09:04:17 AM
State pensions and city pensions are all susceptible to being cut in a bankruptcy. City of Detroit employees had their pensions lowered due to the bankruptcy. The state of Illinois and the city of Chicago pensions may eventually be cut down in bankruptcy court.

True, the State has visited court a few times trying to cut the benefits paid under PERs.. Each time they have been sent home with their tail between their legs. I think you'r right though, one day they will prevail.

Fortunately for us the Oregon pension is pretty small and the much better protected UK pension is somewhat larger.

Sounds like if the directors tried raiding the pension funds in the UK they would get a one way ticket to prison! They can't do it anyway because the pension funds have to be in a separate financial company.

I'm a bit worried for states/municipalities and their pension plans regarding this new tax plan.  Seems like one intangible effect down might be to place more burden on states/localities.  Might give them more ammunition to go after pensions.  Municipal bonds might also be far more risky after all is said and done.

And my company certainly did not go bankrupt when they eliminated the pension plan for 'younger' workers ( you may be able to guess the company...big tech firm ).  In my opinion it was a blatant $$$ grab from employees to feed share buybacks and such.   As an investor, I do understand 'shareholder value'.  However, for big corporations, the behind the scenes aspects of 'shareholder value' can be extremely ugly.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on December 10, 2017, 09:09:14 AM
Sounds like you've jumped right through the $3M point.  Waiting for someone to start a $3M->$4M thread.  I know some here are reluctant, taking to heart the MMM story.  How could anyone have more than $1M and not retire?

I'll take a stab at the question. I was waiting to buy a house, after we'd relocated for work. It took close to 4 years before we could afford a house (super HCOL, Bay Area). Now that we have the house, I'm waiting to determine the full impact on our taxes, and our overall budget. Our house is insanely expensive, and the property tax is as well. We thought we had a good sense of our take home, but with the new tax bill, it's unclear what we'll be left with. We have both state tax as well as property tax, and it's tough to get a sense of how this will play out at our income level.

Aside from the financial sense, we needed to sell our rental property to fully fund the stache that will now allow me to retire/go part-time. That house sold in September. There's also the emotional side. My husband has had some uneasiness about me leaving a high paying job without a few details sorted. We've been working through all of those. I'm planning to FIRE in June of 2018. My husband won't FIRE, both based on desire, and because we have sevenish more years until our kids are out of school & we can sell this house.


We discussed this above ( I'll forgive you for not reading the entire thread ) :-).  If I were single and/or married with no kids and healthy, then life would be a much different story.  However, we have two kids and one of us has a pre-existing chronic medical condition.   So that changes the outlook tremendously.  If healthcare would at least stabilize ( which it was at least starting to until..you know what happened ), then we could at least plan.  However, there are so many unknowns at so many levels right now that it makes planning extremely tough to do.


Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on December 10, 2017, 09:16:16 AM


The rental house is sold. :-) We sold it in September & cleared about $700K after taxes. We are still waiting for a final number after 2017 ends. But, that was the estimate our accountant gave us. I've set my FIRE date for June to give me the flexibility of making any last minute adjustments as needed, after taxes.

Nice!  That's a chunk of change.  Are you paying down your mortgage with it?
[/quote]

No, we're keeping the money in a mix of investments vs paying it down. There is no tax incentive to pay down the mortgage, and the $700K is part of what will give me the flexibility to leave my job.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: AdrianC on December 10, 2017, 12:30:37 PM
If I were single and/or married with no kids and healthy, then life would be a much different story.  However, we have two kids and one of us has a pre-existing chronic medical condition.   So that changes the outlook tremendously.  If healthcare would at least stabilize ( which it was at least starting to until..you know what happened ), then we could at least plan.  However, there are so many unknowns at so many levels right now that it makes planning extremely tough to do.

Yes. Or you can plan but need a large margin of safety built in.

Three kids here. We can't and don't want to try to live on $40k/year (implied by a stash of $1m).

3X that is more our speed :-)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: JoJoP on December 10, 2017, 06:37:48 PM
  However, we have two kids and one of us has a pre-existing chronic medical condition.   ...   However, there are so many unknowns at so many levels right now that it makes planning extremely tough to do.

Yes. Or you can plan but need a large margin of safety built in.

Three kids here. We can't and don't want to try to live on $40k/year (implied by a stash of $1m).

3X that is more our speed :-)

Ours too!

Our property taxes and health insurance (2 adults, 2 college aged kids) total about $40K a year.  It's ridiculous.  The insurance isn't even the best, but it's good for us and will cover any catastrophic illnesses or injuries without bankrupting us. 

 I view the property taxes as business expenses, of course, because the rentals we own are our business.    I'd love to live with less overhead, but we like the substantial stream of passive income from the rentals and don't see the benefit to selling them off to simplify.  It's not hard to change a faucet or what not.  We are completely hands on with the rentals, management and repairs.   That's our job, and it averages about 10 hours a month.    We have 4 sources of income and that gives us peace of mind. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: PhrugalPhan on December 10, 2017, 08:02:00 PM
Welcome, @PhrugalPhan .  It's great to see this thread really coming to life.  Anyway you want to count it up is fine with us.    I hope they don't start a thread with a higher number because it would split the group.
Thanks.  While I am not going to be "RE" (Retire Early) because I am already 55, I like to think I have done well considering I have never had an above average salary for this area (Northern VA - though for where I grew up this is very high salary), and I was about at $0 N.W. when I turned 36.  Since then I bought and paid off a house, survived 15 months unemployment, and a divorce.   I made a vow to myself not to be poor and take charge of my life back 20 years ago.  It hasn't been easy, but now I can survive most anything. 

If it wasn't for the pesky pension (a.k.a. golden handcuffs) I might retire in a year when the SO does.  Instead I will probably take extra vacations so we can enjoy her first years of her retirement before I head off into the sunset too.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on December 10, 2017, 09:06:22 PM
My parents live on $30K USD per year ($40k AUD) + paid off house in a low cost area. They get by fine 90% of the time, and can afford a couple of short holidays each year, usually a small cruise every year and maybe a short getaway up the coast. They have dinner out with friends from time to time (certainly not every week), have gym memberships (with a pensioner discount) and spoil their grand children a little bit. They are happy enough but certainly wouldnít mind having a little more financial means.

 Occassionally they face some financial stress like when my BIL wrote off their uninsured only car and had no money to pay for a replacement car for them. My parents managed to sell some of their stash to buy a new car, but I could see the financial angst it caused. My sister will prob pay back my parents for the smashed car one day, maybe she already has, I donít know.

But I donít want my parents life. I want to have greater financial freedom. I want to fly to Europe or Noth America for a couple of months at a time if I choose. I want to live in a more expensive location if I choose. Maybe one day Iíll want a fancier car, maybe I want to have season tickets for the theatre, or to drink at fancy city bars from time to time without worrying about the money.

So I have decided I want double the budget of my parents.... this then creates the need to budget for some taxation as well. Iíll try to structure my affairs to minimise taxes, but expect their to be some leakage.

The biggest difference in budget though is housing. I donít want to live where my parents live, despite growing up there. After much debate on the topic DW and I still canít bring ourselves to accepting living the rest of our lives in a small 1 BR apartment or studio in a desirable area. We want a little more space. Not clown house size, but maybe a place that will have a clown purchase price purely due to location. We are setting aside $750,000 USD ($1M AUD) for a home post FIRE.

So I add all our wishes and dreams up, and consider that as I am in my mid 40s and DW is not quite yet 40, it makes sense to us to work a little longer to give us the extra choices later in life.

So here we are on this thread and not already FIRE.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on December 11, 2017, 07:52:26 AM
  However, we have two kids and one of us has a pre-existing chronic medical condition.   ...   However, there are so many unknowns at so many levels right now that it makes planning extremely tough to do.

Yes. Or you can plan but need a large margin of safety built in.

Three kids here. We can't and don't want to try to live on $40k/year (implied by a stash of $1m).

3X that is more our speed :-)

Ours too!

Our property taxes and health insurance (2 adults, 2 college aged kids) total about $40K a year.  It's ridiculous.  The insurance isn't even the best, but it's good for us and will cover any catastrophic illnesses or injuries without bankrupting us. 

 I view the property taxes as business expenses, of course, because the rentals we own are our business.    I'd love to live with less overhead, but we like the substantial stream of passive income from the rentals and don't see the benefit to selling them off to simplify.  It's not hard to change a faucet or what not.  We are completely hands on with the rentals, management and repairs.   That's our job, and it averages about 10 hours a month.    We have 4 sources of income and that gives us peace of mind.


Exactly...and that is why we are on this thread continuing to save instead of being retired.  :-)

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: LessIsLess on December 11, 2017, 07:56:54 AM
The $3m sounds large, but I suspect reaching the milestone will provide little emotional boost.  On the contrary, it may even trigger a quiet emotional drop, when the "reachers" will sigh and utter these words "Is this it?  What a bummer!" 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on December 11, 2017, 10:08:29 AM
The $3m sounds large, but I suspect reaching the milestone will provide little emotional boost.  On the contrary, it may even trigger a quiet emotional drop, when the "reachers" will sigh and utter these words "Is this it?  What a bummer!"
FTFY

It's completely legitimate that some people have need to reach further.

Here's another perspective: We are FI, but DH's mom has Alzheimer's and lives with us, so DH still works. He loves his job. It has incredible benefits and he walks three tenths of a mile to work. We can't travel as we'd planned and he'd go stir crazy with not enough to do around here. He's four years from the top tier of a lovely Defined Benefit Pension, so why not just let things ride? Sure, you can call us "reachers" but there's no shame in making the best of a bad situation.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on December 11, 2017, 10:54:37 AM
The $3m sounds large, but I suspect reaching the milestone will provide little emotional boost.  On the contrary, it may even trigger a quiet emotional drop, when the "reachers" will sigh and utter these words "Is this it?  What a bummer!"
FTFY

It's completely legitimate that some people have need to reach further.

Here's another perspective: We are FI, but DH's mom has Alzheimer's and lives with us, so DH still works. He loves his job. It has incredible benefits and he walks three tenths of a mile to work. We can't travel as we'd planned and he'd go stir crazy with not enough to do around here. He's four years from the top tier of a lovely Defined Benefit Pension, so why not just let things ride? Sure, you can call us "reachers" but there's no shame in making the best of a bad situation.

Yes everyone's situation is unique and different.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on December 11, 2017, 11:40:41 AM
The $3m sounds large, but I suspect reaching the milestone will provide little emotional boost.  On the contrary, it may even trigger a quiet emotional drop, when the "reachers" will sigh and utter these words "Is this it?  What a bummer!"
FTFY

It's completely legitimate that some people have need to reach further.

Here's another perspective: We are FI, but DH's mom has Alzheimer's and lives with us, so DH still works. He loves his job. It has incredible benefits and he walks three tenths of a mile to work. We can't travel as we'd planned and he'd go stir crazy with not enough to do around here. He's four years from the top tier of a lovely Defined Benefit Pension, so why not just let things ride? Sure, you can call us "reachers" but there's no shame in making the best of a bad situation.

Yes everyone's situation is unique and different.
Thanks, David. It's great that you get it. LIL's comment felt unnecessarily condescending, hence my reply.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on December 11, 2017, 12:03:34 PM
Message boards lack the non-written emotional/verbal/auditory cues and it's possible that the poster wasn't intending to be condescending.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Laura33 on December 11, 2017, 12:56:15 PM
The $3m sounds large, but I suspect reaching the milestone will provide little emotional boost.  On the contrary, it may even trigger a quiet emotional drop, when the "reachers" will sigh and utter these words "Is this it?  What a bummer!"

Or, in my case:  "Is this it?  Whew!  Hallelujah!!"

Not because of a specific number on an investment statement.  Because of the massive relief when I realized I didn't need to work, ever again -- that I could walk any time I wanted to; that DH's job could implode, and I could still walk, and we wouldn't need to sell the house and uproot our lives and chase jobs across the country.  Because we've done all of that, more than once, and it was scary, and it sucked, and there's still part of me that can't believe my luck that all that worry and pressure is really gone for good.

IMO, the biggest luxury in life -- the biggest privilege -- is being able to figure out who you want to be without even considering how to support yourself doing it.  It is a privilege I never had growing up; heck, if you'd asked me back then, I'd have told you that kind of freedom existed only in the world of trust funds and silver spoons. 

I still don't know the answer, btw.  But the weight that has been lifted from my shoulders while I'm figuring it out is immense.  And the funny thing is that I didn't even know there was a giant weight on my chest until it was gone and I could suddenly breathe.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on December 11, 2017, 05:42:23 PM
Message boards lack the non-written emotional/verbal/auditory cues and it's possible that the poster wasn't intending to be condescending.
Sure, it's possible.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: soccerluvof4 on December 12, 2017, 05:49:33 AM
Message boards lack the non-written emotional/verbal/auditory cues and it's possible that the poster wasn't intending to be condescending.
Sure, it's possible.



Yes, its all interpretation especially if they don't come back and support their comments. One might interpret it as if they didn't have another challenge to keep them busy like disappointed in a way. And the obvious is , everyone's situation is different. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: JoJoP on December 14, 2017, 09:47:04 PM
The $3m sounds large, but I suspect reaching the milestone will provide little emotional boost.  On the contrary, it may even trigger a quiet emotional drop, when the "reachers" will sigh and utter these words "Is this it?  What a bummer!"

Oh, I don't think so.   I can't imagine anyone who's saved and planned and hit 3M and thinking "What a bummer!"  I do think that one becomes more relaxed about it.  The higher the number gets, though, the more it feels like another slice of cake.   It's good, and then better, and then really good and even better.    I'm still kind of surprised, it's so cool, to have a high NW.  Like, wow, that's  me, squarely in the multi-millionaire ranks no matter how I slice and dice my NW.

I just like to see my NW grow.  It's all good.  There's plenty of leeway now for little ups and downs.    I track my NW now, maybe more than ever thanks to Mint, and the bigger the number gets, the more I realize that we can most likely roll with any punches.  There's no real goal to hit a higher number anymore.  My plan is to just live my life the same way I always have- frugal as a mindset- and if it keeps going up, great.   And, it does keep going up, and I'm not doing anything different at all.   My focus isn't on growing NW, it's on being debt free.  Our debt/NW is less than 25%, maybe more like 20%, but I'm chipping away at it, and it's great to pay off a mortgage, or get one down below 100K, or whatever my current goal happens to be.    All of our debt is mortgage debt, in case you were wondering.  4 mortgages, with one 62Ker squarely pegged to be paid off with our surplus liquidity in the first quarter of 2018.   I paid off 2 in 2017.     If I snowball correctly and with discipline, it will take about 7 years.   The rentals will pay off in about 4 years.  I want to aggressively tackle the rental mortgages, and then will reevaluate for my home.  Our debt is about 50/50 rentals and the house. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on December 27, 2017, 09:42:59 PM
Where the hell y'all been?  Must have been out spending some of that money.  Not one post since 12-14-2018.  Me I've been moving some stuff around.  Been buying VBTLX ans selling some stock funds like VINIX that are up like 25%.  I was fully invested all year and finally getting some bond exposure.  I've also bought some individual stocks that have been dogs.  Mostly GE and AT&T.  GE I bought again today at blood in the street level.  AT&T has already added a 10% increase in price since buying a month ago. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on December 27, 2017, 10:24:56 PM
I got banned from the forum for a month.  Many times I wanted to post, but I stuck as a guest and now, as a true stealth wealth devotee, I'm thinking staying a guest is probably OK.  We had a nice Christmas and look forward to this tax gift in 2018 - my paychecks will be boosted in Feb by the tax cut and then again in March by SS withholding tax being paid in full.  If this is how the US is going to be, Mustachianism is going to be a tough sell.  I enjoy good health and HDHP benefits ($1500 deposit into my HSA on Jan 1), max out with tax deferred contributions (6,900 total) - and I'll just keep doing that for the next 5 - 10 years.  If this favorable income tax treatment is reversed or health insurance market stabilizes, maybe I'll get more excited about retirement sub-55 yo, but right now it's a minefield!  I know I can navigate it for 10 years (55 - 65yo), but much more than that takes a leap of faith.

I'll probably die with way too much money, but I also enjoy sleeping with plenty of blankets in the cold as opposed to stretching them over me and hoping to sleep at all.  And I also have my kids that I want to enjoy sharing the bounty with (responsibly).
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on December 28, 2017, 07:15:34 AM
Glad you're back from the ban.  We've had a banner year no doubt.  I've taken some profits and reduced risk a bit.  I'm close to 20 percent bonds now.  I'm also likely to die with too much money, probably going to be a common occurrence of the members on this thread.   Unless I just get totally fed up one day I'm more likely extending FIRE to 2020.  I turn 50 in 2018, I'm not working past 2023 at 55 since that's offical retirement time with my company and there are benefits awarded upon that date.  With 6 weeks vacation and a week of paid personal time, I'll get by for now.   Good luck in 2018 to you all.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on December 28, 2017, 08:21:42 AM
I just figured that people were waiting for the month and year to end. I expect we'll pick up again soon, with new members added to the fold.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: AdrianC on December 29, 2017, 09:18:50 AM
Where the hell y'all been?  Must have been out spending some of that money.

Nah! We've been counting it...

https://youtu.be/pneBKFjxInQ

It's been a good year. NW up 20%.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on December 29, 2017, 01:45:14 PM
Up 18% for 2017...... despite property prices dropping 5% in the 2nd half of the year. I expect another 5% to come off H1 2018, before the market starts to thaw a little. Hopefully stocks will continue to perform.

Looking forward to passing $3M AUD in 2018..... yes itís only 2.3M USD, but still a nice round number to shoot for nine the less (before June maybe 🤞).
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: wannabe-stache on January 02, 2018, 01:40:16 PM
i wasn't tracking NW until May 2017 and it's up an unreal amount in that time frame.  started at $2.1M, ended the year at $2.8M.

With some year end bonus payments expected this month, at this pace (putting aside market volatility) i would bet anything we're at $3.0M by mid Feb if not sooner. it's unreal how it grows even from day to day.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on January 02, 2018, 02:21:46 PM
Ended the year at 2.2M total..including paid-off house.  1.9M in investable assets.  Some big gains in the stock trading account helped accelerate what was already a great year.  Not too shabby!



Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on January 02, 2018, 07:35:02 PM
We're up 340K for the year and 1.9M invested, also made $1500 in crypto, sold last week.  Had more fun there than the 340k
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: wannabe-stache on January 10, 2018, 03:13:18 PM
One of the interesting things i have noticed as we have approached the $3M mark: what really is a lot of $ doesn't seem like it is.

I am referring to the fact that i open personal capital, see that our net worth is $2.904M and think "wow we are so close".  In reality, we are $96,000 shy of $3M.  $96K!

That's a lot of money in absolute terms.  At least to me.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on January 10, 2018, 03:43:56 PM
Wife and I discussed it last night.  We're 1.91M according to Mint.  I made the comment of only being 90k from 2M.  Shouldn't be but a few months now to another million I said.  Like it's a small thing.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Melisande on January 10, 2018, 07:30:58 PM
Just did a quarterly check on the good olí net worth and it looks like we are now in the 2k-3k race. Total net worth now comes to $2,228,000 with most of that in investments & cash ó only $225,000 in home equity.

I told my husband the good news. His reaction? So, I can retire now? Well, yeah, I said. But he was just joking. He wants to keep working. So, it looks like weíll be at $3k at some point not too far down the line.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on January 10, 2018, 11:46:48 PM
Just did a quarterly check on the good olí net worth and it looks like we are now in the 2k-3k race. Total net worth now comes to $x with most of that in investments & cash ó only $225,000 in home equity.

I told my husband the good news. His reaction? So, I can retire now? Well, yeah, I said. But he was just joking. He wants to keep working. So, it looks like weíll be at $3k at some point not too far down the line.

Why are rich people so dumb?  'k' is, and always has been since 'Roman' times = 1,000.  But yes, you have lots of money.  Looks like there is a little cornfusion on how to invest and what risk tells you is optimal - but we all live for the day and life is good.

[OMG why am I posting and telling people my opinion?  If I don't respond going forward, I've probably been banned by ARS again]
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on January 11, 2018, 12:02:28 AM
Just did a quarterly check on the good olí net worth and it looks like we are now in the 2k-3k race. Total net worth now comes to $x with most of that in investments & cash ó only $225,000 in home equity.

I told my husband the good news. His reaction? So, I can retire now? Well, yeah, I said. But he was just joking. He wants to keep working. So, it looks like weíll be at $3k at some point not too far down the line.

Why are rich people so dumb?  'k' is, and always has been since 'Roman' times = 1,000.  But yes, you have lots of money.  Looks like there is a little cornfusion on how to invest and what risk tells you is optimal - but we all live for the day and life is good.

[OMG why am I posting and telling people my opinion?  If I don't respond going forward, I've probably been banned by ARS again]

Target on your back EV.. They way I look at it is..I can afford to be dumb.. In fact the richer I get the dumber I become..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on January 11, 2018, 12:21:50 AM
Just did a quarterly check on the good olí net worth and it looks like we are now in the 2k-3k race. Total net worth now comes to $x with most of that in investments & cash ó only $225,000 in home equity.

I told my husband the good news. His reaction? So, I can retire now? Well, yeah, I said. But he was just joking. He wants to keep working. So, it looks like weíll be at $3k at some point not too far down the line.

Why are rich people so dumb?  'k' is, and always has been since 'Roman' times = 1,000.  But yes, you have lots of money.  Looks like there is a little cornfusion on how to invest and what risk tells you is optimal - but we all live for the day and life is good.

[OMG why am I posting and telling people my opinion?  If I don't respond going forward, I've probably been banned by ARS again]

Target on your back EV.. They way I look at it is..I can afford to be dumb.. In fact the richer I get the dumber I become..:)

Yup, even when I'm banned permanently from the forum for not being whatever Mustachianism means, I'll still be FI beyond my wildest dreams - I just will have to take it over to many of the other fora that are out there.  Reddit has a pretty cool system.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Melisande on January 11, 2018, 04:14:08 AM
Just did a quarterly check on the good olí net worth and it looks like we are now in the 2k-3k race. Total net worth now comes to $x with most of that in investments & cash ó only $225,000 in home equity.

I told my husband the good news. His reaction? So, I can retire now? Well, yeah, I said. But he was just joking. He wants to keep working. So, it looks like weíll be at $3k at some point not too far down the line.

Why are rich people so dumb?  'k' is, and always has been since 'Roman' times = 1,000.  But yes, you have lots of money.  Looks like there is a little cornfusion on how to invest and what risk tells you is optimal - but we all live for the day and life is good.

[OMG why am I posting and telling people my opinion?  If I don't respond going forward, I've probably been banned by ARS again]

Hey, I know what K means and weíre not dumb. Just an honest screw-up. Posting too late and distracted. Also, had just calculated something using Kís, so stuck in my mind.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on January 11, 2018, 04:30:29 AM
Just did a quarterly check on the good olí net worth and it looks like we are now in the 2k-3k race. Total net worth now comes to $x with most of that in investments & cash ó only $225,000 in home equity.

I told my husband the good news. His reaction? So, I can retire now? Well, yeah, I said. But he was just joking. He wants to keep working. So, it looks like weíll be at $3k at some point not too far down the line.

Why are rich people so dumb?  'k' is, and always has been since 'Roman' times = 1,000.  But yes, you have lots of money.  Looks like there is a little cornfusion on how to invest and what risk tells you is optimal - but we all live for the day and life is good.

[OMG why am I posting and telling people my opinion?  If I don't respond going forward, I've probably been banned by ARS again]

Hey, I know what K means and weíre not dumb. Just an honest screw-up. Posting too late and distracted. Also, had just calculated something using Kís, so stuck in my mind.
Had EV2020 tossed an "lol" or a couple of emojis in, it might have been more obvious that it was a joke. Nobody in this club is dumb. It's a rule. 😄
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on January 11, 2018, 04:36:31 AM
One of the interesting things i have noticed as we have approached the $3M mark: what really is a lot of $ doesn't seem like it is.

I am referring to the fact that i open personal capital, see that our net worth is $2.904M and think "wow we are so close".  In reality, we are $96,000 shy of $3M.  $96K!

That's a lot of money in absolute terms.  At least to me.
Damn straight. My first career job paid the princely (To me. At the time. A long, long time ago...) sum of $13k per year. Now, our investments can make that in a month! This shit really, really does work! Amazing!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on January 11, 2018, 06:16:03 AM

[/quote]
Had EV2020 tossed an "lol" or a couple of emojis in, it might have been more obvious that it was a joke. Nobody in this club is dumb. It's a rule. 😄
[/quote]

You don't know this dumb Cajun.  I've always been dumb, earlier in life I'd convinced myself I was smart.  Now that I'm older, I realize I fooled myself.  The formula for getting rich slowly is an easy one.  Smart people can get rich quick.  For those like me, you figure out a simple plan and stick to it for decades.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: AdrianC on January 11, 2018, 08:44:24 AM
Hey, I know what K means and weíre not dumb. Just an honest screw-up. Posting too late and distracted. Also, had just calculated something using Kís, so stuck in my mind.

I thought you were just being coy. Congrats.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on January 11, 2018, 11:50:27 AM
I'm lumping myself into the dumb and rich category, wasn't singling anyone out!  Also, acting dumb can be an awfully effective strategy - it got a whole lot more chatter than if you'd used M's.

I also wondered if you were being 'modest' / humble.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on January 11, 2018, 12:23:20 PM
Ms are grossly overused in this forum anyways...... MMM this, MMM that...

 but if you had just finished writing something with 3 Ks instead of 3 Ms we might not only have EV2020 facing censorship.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on January 11, 2018, 05:48:14 PM
Here we are millionaires arguing K and M's.  I bet we all had days we sweated the utility bill or rent.  Seems so irrelevant now.  I'm hanging out at the New Orleans yacht club.   Rich people shit.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on January 11, 2018, 10:09:36 PM
After all these comments about how much everyone's accounts are up of late, I decided to pay a little attention to our account balances today. Our investment accounts grew by more than DH grossed in 2017, and we did not add any new money to them. The new money went into DH's 401k, which also did quite nicely. Crazy good mustachian fun!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on January 11, 2018, 11:43:58 PM
As of the close today..

Investments $2,003,400

Pensions $504,000

Paid off house approx $400,000

I think by any measure we are in this pool, at least for now..:)

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: JoJoP on January 12, 2018, 12:04:20 AM
Where the hell y'all been?  Must have been out spending some of that money.  Not one post since 12-14-2018.  Me I've been moving some stuff around.  Been buying VBTLX ans selling some stock funds like VINIX that are up like 25%.  I was fully invested all year and finally getting some bond exposure.  I've also bought some individual stocks that have been dogs.  Mostly GE and AT&T.  GE I bought again today at blood in the street level.  AT&T has already added a 10% increase in price since buying a month ago.

Yup!  Out spending some of that money and being with the ones we love.  Our family spent the holidays together in Europe.  It was one of the best Christmases and New Years we've ever had.  A real change of pace.  We want to build memories, and this was a home run.  The parents (me/DH) came home and the kids are still there, getting themselves around with no parental help or funds, finding their way to hostels, etc. 

Today is the first day I had a chance to peek at the thread.  I'm glad to see so many new posts.  I also took a look at Mint, for my 2018.  My updates are very outdated, and things are more rosy than it shows.  Some passwords have changed, a few accounts were never added, etc.  It's a good tool for general tracking.  FWIW, my AT&T stock is one of the bigger lugs in my stock portfolio.   Glad it worked for you with 10% up.   
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on January 12, 2018, 08:15:44 AM
Hey Jill P.  Glad you had such wonderful family time.  That's really what it's all for right?  Yep, you're right AT&T as well as GE were pretty bad in 2017.  I'd not owned them till December at the very bottom.   They are both up nicely for me now.  I did go to about 15% in VBTLX.  I've never owned bond's or bond funds in my life.  That's where I'm losing money.  JL Collins says it helps smooth the ride, we will see.  Even with my dumb move into some bonds we are still up 20k for the year.  Not sure how much further the market can push, we'll enjoy it while it does.  Glad to see ya back.  Happy Mardi Gras.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on January 12, 2018, 11:20:50 AM
Hey Jill P.  Glad you had such wonderful family time.  That's really what it's all for right?  Yep, you're right AT&T as well as GE were pretty bad in 2017.  I'd not owned them till December at the very bottom.   They are both up nicely for me now.  I did go to about 15% in VBTLX.  I've never owned bond's or bond funds in my life.  That's where I'm losing money.  JL Collins says it helps smooth the ride, we will see.  Even with my dumb move into some bonds we are still up 20k for the year.  Not sure how much further the market can push, we'll enjoy it while it does.  Glad to see ya back.  Happy Mardi Gras.

Interesting about VBTLX.  I just cashed out some very old mutual funds that I've had for years.  Thought it was 'time'.  Plan is to move the proceeds to our taxable brokerage account where we already have a sizeable balance due to some successful 'side gig' stock trading.  I'm struggling a bit on what to do with these funds.  I'm sure much of them will end up back in equities at some point though..however, not 100%. 


 

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: PhrugalPhan on January 13, 2018, 08:06:17 AM
As of the close today..

Investments $2,003,400

Pensions $504,000

Paid off house approx $400,000

I think by any measure we are in this pool, at least for now..:)

As of close yesterday my GF has her TSP over $1 Mil

My investments are just under $900,000

And our two pensions combined are worth over $1 Mil as well

Paid off house approx. $350,000

The day I can walk out with pension in hand can't come soon enough.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on January 13, 2018, 03:05:08 PM
With the runup Friday and my adds to taxable, I clicked over $2.3M in investments.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: JoJoP on January 13, 2018, 09:42:23 PM
I stayed up late last night doing math.   After I did the math, I realized I've got to come up with a better plan.
 
 I ran some snow ball numbers... if it takes us 8 years to pay off the remaining 600K+ in debt by snowballing 4 remaining loans at an 8K payment per month, I'll still be paying almost $100K in interest over those 8 years.   The interest rate on my real estate property loans is costing me $22K in the next 12 months.  $22K wasted in 2018!  Sacrilege!! 

I've got to face this challenge head on.  I woke up and sent a $5K payment to one of the loans.   I'm waiting for a big check to arrive, and I have earmarked a chunk of change to the debt reduction.  That will speed up the snowball and I'm going to run the numbers again, just as soon as I know the actual figure.   I am sick and tired of paying the banks my hard earned money. 
Disclaimer:  I know there are differing opinions about paying off mortgages vs. stock portfolio investments.  I listen closely to the reasoning on both sides.  Our 4 loans are not all low interest fixed, so I've got more incentive.  Since most of our wealth is from/in real estate, I'm in the "pay off the mortgage, don't put it in the stock market" camp. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on January 13, 2018, 11:53:42 PM
I stayed up late last night doing math.   After I did the math, I realized I've got to come up with a better plan.
 
 I ran some snow ball numbers... if it takes us 8 years to pay off the remaining 600K+ in debt by snowballing 4 remaining loans at an 8K payment per month, I'll still be paying almost $100K in interest over those 8 years.   The interest rate on my real estate property loans is costing me $22K in the next 12 months.  $22K wasted in 2018!  Sacrilege!! 

I've got to face this challenge head on.  I woke up and sent a $5K payment to one of the loans.   I'm waiting for a big check to arrive, and I have earmarked a chunk of change to the debt reduction.  That will speed up the snowball and I'm going to run the numbers again, just as soon as I know the actual figure.   I am sick and tired of paying the banks my hard earned money. 
Disclaimer:  I know there are differing opinions about paying off mortgages vs. stock portfolio investments.  I listen closely to the reasoning on both sides.  Our 4 loans are not all low interest fixed, so I've got more incentive.  Since most of our wealth is from/in real estate, I'm in the "pay off the mortgage, don't put it in the stock market" camp.

There are mathematical equations which state that with current low interest mortage debt you are better off paying the minimum and investing the difference.   Great theory.  Those of us who are older faced much higher interest rates on our mortgages.   My mortgage was financed at 8.5% fixed.  Early payments made sense.  Whatever the current blend of which school of thought yields the most, one fact remains.  We have NW over 2 million on this thread.  Something worked.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: PhrugalPhan on January 14, 2018, 07:33:57 AM
There are mathematical equations which state that with current low interest mortgage debt you are better off paying the minimum and investing the difference.   Great theory.  Those of us who are older faced much higher interest rates on our mortgages.   My mortgage was financed at 8.5% fixed.  Early payments made sense.  Whatever the current blend of which school of thought yields the most, one fact remains.  We have NW over 2 million on this thread.  Something worked.
Exactly.  I split the difference with my investments / payments as I had 6.75% fixed, and those extra principle payments from 2003-08 didn't melt away when the market went south 08-09 like my investments did.  For me being mortgage free since 2011 has been fabulous.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: honeyfill on January 26, 2018, 03:09:33 PM
Good news, I broke the 2.5M barrier this month.   Bad news , the kitchen remodel is costing more than I thought and I  will drop back below 2.5M.  Since I'll still be  worth more than I was Jan 1, You might say I got the kitchen for free. (Just kidding, but at least I'm taking some money off the table just in case the market tanks!)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: dogboyslim on January 26, 2018, 03:27:35 PM
$83k up in January, $324k increase last year.  Both of these numbers exclude any contributions on my part.  I still fear the phrase what goes up, must come down.

We are just over 2 if I include property.

Invested Assets 1.77, Home 1: 380k, Home 2: 450k: Home Debt: 380k = 2.22 M.  We are in the middle of moving from home 1 to home 2 due to a relocation to a more costly area.  Once that happens, we will drop 20k of home debt and put the rest of the equity into invested assets and then pay off the mortgage over time.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: bluebelle on January 26, 2018, 04:48:24 PM
I'm having a hard time deciding if I belong in this group....debated posting for a while now, written and deleted a few posts....but what the heck, you sound like my peeps....stealth wealth, and a desire to have a nice buffer, live conservatively but still have some luxuries.

I've been sitting here trying to not laugh out loud with the absurdity of saying we ONLY have 1.73M in investible assets, so I don't yet belong in this group.....but if I include DH DB pension, and do back of the napkin math of the commuted value of that pension, we're "allowed" in this group.  Add in the home value in our ridiculous market, we actually surpass it.  But I don't count our home value because our retirement plan is to swap this house for a lakefront home and hike and fish to our hearts content.  We expect to break even between the two homes - it was a conscious decision to do so, and not downsize.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on January 26, 2018, 06:13:52 PM
I'm having a hard time deciding if I belong in this group....debated posting for a while now, written and deleted a few posts....but what the heck, you sound like my peeps....stealth wealth, and a desire to have a nice buffer, live conservatively but still have some luxuries.

I've been sitting here trying to not laugh out loud with the absurdity of saying we ONLY have 1.73M in investible assets, so I don't yet belong in this group.....but if I include DH DB pension, and do back of the napkin math of the commuted value of that pension, we're "allowed" in this group.  Add in the home value in our ridiculous market, we actually surpass it.  But I don't count our home value because our retirement plan is to swap this house for a lakefront home and hike and fish to our hearts content.  We expect to break even between the two homes - it was a conscious decision to do so, and not downsize.

I wrestled with that too.. I didn't have to wrestle long though...:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on January 26, 2018, 07:55:45 PM
Ha! I just checked balances on our two main accounts. Gulp. $1.2M! Paid-for primary home is worth $1.4M, sez Zillow, which I know from recent comps to be low. I think I'll stop looking now. If I check any more balances, I'm going to find myself pushed right out of this nice club.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on January 27, 2018, 05:30:53 AM
Only $31K to go to 2000K.  Going to keep pushing.  Took a week long vacation and spent a little money.   Felt good spreading it around some.   
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on January 27, 2018, 09:16:51 AM
At this point, and whilst youíre still working, spending a little cash on a weeks vacation wonít even be felt at the bank, but will make a big difference as to how you feel about fronting up to the office a little longer.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Koogie on January 27, 2018, 12:57:45 PM
At this point, and whilst youíre still working, spending a little cash on a weeks vacation wonít even be felt at the bank, but will make a big difference as to how you feel about fronting up to the office a little longer.

+1

we took 9 weeks vacation last year.  gonna try and ramp it up to 12 this year (quite a few might be staycations).    it makes semi-retirement bearable and even enjoyable.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on January 27, 2018, 01:26:44 PM
I can testify that learning to spend after decades of "saving everything" can be quite the challenge.

We did 8 weeks on the road travelling through SE Asia in 2016 and probably spent $5k or so.. I just had to clench my teeth and type in my CC numbers..

Of course the money is not even measurable compared to our net worth, but you have to do it a few times to feel comfortable.

This year we are going to Poland, Slovenia and Croatia for 6 weeks or so..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: AdrianC on January 27, 2018, 06:13:30 PM
I think I'll stop looking now. If I check any more balances, I'm going to find myself pushed right out of this nice club.

I took the club name to be ďRace from $2M to $3M+Ē.

If so youíre safe. Itís been a crazy year already.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on January 27, 2018, 06:16:01 PM
We are past $3M with the crazy market, but plan to invest a bunch in a remodel, which may drop our cash flow, but positively increase our house value. So . . . I'll keep coming back & consider this my "home". I have no idea how property values in the bay area will continue to grow/drop/stabilize. After we pay for this remodel, we will do other facepunch worthy things like potentially buying a rental property in Hawaii. So, there's that.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on January 27, 2018, 10:31:04 PM
Alright, we have lots of contenders - who's going to start the 'Race from $3M to $4M' thread?  The nice thing about finance is that doubling means you go from 1M to 2M in the same time as 2M to 4M, so getting from 2M to 3M is relatively quick in a rising market.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: CoffeeR on January 28, 2018, 01:46:04 AM
Alright, we have lots of contenders - who's going to start the 'Race from $3M to $4M' thread?  The nice thing about finance is that doubling means you go from 1M to 2M in the same time as 2M to 4M, so getting from 2M to 3M is relatively quick in a rising market.
Better would be to change the title of this thread to to "Race from $2M to $3M+".
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on January 28, 2018, 05:52:16 AM
Bluerunner made the 2 to 4 thread.   Should have made the 3 to 4.  We've got the 2 to 3. Maybe we just start counting by 2s from here.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on January 28, 2018, 08:10:19 AM
Alright, we have lots of contenders - who's going to start the 'Race from $3M to $4M' thread?  The nice thing about finance is that doubling means you go from 1M to 2M in the same time as 2M to 4M, so getting from 2M to 3M is relatively quick in a rising market.

I have a sneaking suspicion that my 3rd will take a lot longer than the 2nd, even if I kept working.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: JoJoP on January 28, 2018, 10:08:23 AM
Alright, we have lots of contenders - who's going to start the 'Race from $3M to $4M' thread?  The nice thing about finance is that doubling means you go from 1M to 2M in the same time as 2M to 4M, so getting from 2M to 3M is relatively quick in a rising market.
Better would be to change the title of this thread to to "Race from $2M to $3M+".

I agree.  Just add the plus sign and be done with it.  Does the OP agree?

 I'm not sure why another, bigger race thread was started.  Seeing the new posters join this thread is amazing.  Those are the posts I enjoy reading.   This thread has taken off recently.   We are examples of success.  I like the discussions about who's making what moves, such as paying off houses, buying in Hawaii, where to put the investments now.  I hope that the members of this thread can provide great advise to those who aspire to be here, rather than compete for an eve higher finish line.   Splitting the thread would dilute the discussions.   I'm not excited about hanging out in ever bigger threads.   As the guys say, E-peen comparisons aren't needed.   We're here, at the finish line, if we're in this thread.   Any 'stache over 2M is enough, and the journey for financial independence can be considered achieved. 

IMO, We're not racing any more, more like sauntering along.  Many of us here have enjoyed 20-30 years of financial growth, and are exactly where the young Mustachians will end up in the same time frame.  The frugal habits of a lifetime have come to fruition, and the money just makes itself.   Isn't that the whole point of being a Mustachian?   My NW has doubled in the past 10 years.  It's likely to keep rising, since my patterns aren't changing.   I'm older, wiser, and less risk adverse (not that I ever was particularly risk adverse).  A couple of easy moves, like moving chess pieces on the chess board, increased my monthly passive cash flow by $2500.  A couple more moves, and I reduced my outflow by over $3K a month.  I paid off a bunch of debt that I mentioned upthread. That's a net positive of $5500 a month.  I was broke 25 years ago, thus, living proof of Mustachian style success.   I hope my stories, our stories, are inspiring anyone dropping by to read these posts and wanting to join this race.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on January 28, 2018, 12:01:51 PM
Its clear that unless you have a huge salary that we really arn't doing anything to make more money.. its happening by itself at this point.

So i guess calling it a "race" is a bit nonsenical. Of course there are people for whom $2m or $3M really is not enough, but they have lifestyles that are beyond normal Mustashianism.

Assuming normal rates of return on the stock market (10% ish), then with a 100% stock portfolio we can expect to double our money in about 7 years.

So want another million $ and currently have $2m.. simply wait about 4 years and have a savings rate of zero. Of course, many of us are now FIRED and don't have 100% stocks, plus have some degree of negative savings rate so increases to the next milestone will vary.

I am also concerned at the enthusiasm shown over the rapid stock market rise. I could easily see at 20% pullback in the near future and possibly more. Thats not a problem.. just keep rebalancing or increase one stock asset allocation when the market tanks and everybody here will do very well... Just don't get married to these high numbers.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on January 28, 2018, 10:53:11 PM
I certainly donít expect to be wobbled by a correction. When I fire in 11-17 months my net worth will be split
 - Home.                      27% - not exposed to stock market (could always buy cheaper if needed)
 - investment property   20% - not exposed to stock market
  - indexed pension.       10% - not exposed to the stock market
 - Cash and fixed interest 10% - not exposed to stock market
 - Stocks.                       33%

So, a 20% correction in stocks will represent a 6% drop in my net worth. Yawn.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on January 29, 2018, 12:53:22 AM
I certainly donít expect to be wobbled by a correction. When I fire in 11-17 months my net worth will be split
 - Home.                      27% - not exposed to stock market (could always buy cheaper if needed)
 - investment property   20% - not exposed to stock market
  - indexed pension.       10% - not exposed to the stock market
 - Cash and fixed interest 10% - not exposed to stock market
 - Stocks.                       33%

So, a 20% correction in stocks will represent a 6% drop in my net worth. Yawn.
That's a great way to look at it! Our profile is similar to yours. This perspective is a great way to keep calm when the next slide occurs.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Koogie on January 29, 2018, 07:18:27 AM
I certainly donít expect to be wobbled by a correction. When I fire in 11-17 months my net worth will be split
 - Home.                      27% - not exposed to stock market (could always buy cheaper if needed)
 - investment property   20% - not exposed to stock market
  - indexed pension.       10% - not exposed to the stock market
 - Cash and fixed interest 10% - not exposed to stock market
 - Stocks.                       33%

So, a 20% correction in stocks will represent a 6% drop in my net worth. Yawn.

Not debating your conclusions but do you really think your pension isn't exposed to the stock market ?   
This is a misconception many people have.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on January 29, 2018, 09:46:47 AM
I certainly donít expect to be wobbled by a correction. When I fire in 11-17 months my net worth will be split
 - Home.                      27% - not exposed to stock market (could always buy cheaper if needed)
 - investment property   20% - not exposed to stock market
  - indexed pension.       10% - not exposed to the stock market
 - Cash and fixed interest 10% - not exposed to stock market
 - Stocks.                       33%

So, a 20% correction in stocks will represent a 6% drop in my net worth. Yawn.

Not debating your conclusions but do you really think your pension isn't exposed to the stock market ?   
This is a misconception many people have.

I feel very comfortable with my Australian Federal Government Pension. Australia remains one of 10 or so countries with a AAA credit rating. My pension is far more secure than any other part of my stash.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on January 29, 2018, 02:47:00 PM
The advantage of federal pensions, from a central government, is that they can be backed up by debt obligations. The debt obligations or treasuries are highly desired if we enter another recession.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Koogie on January 29, 2018, 04:55:10 PM
I feel very comfortable with my Australian Federal Government Pension. Australia remains one of 10 or so countries with a AAA credit rating. My pension is far more secure than any other part of my stash.

The point was, what you said is factually incorrect. All pensions invest in equities. So, by definition they cannot be "not exposed to the stock market" as you said.

Whether they are secure or not is something else entirely.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on January 29, 2018, 07:15:34 PM
I feel very comfortable with my Australian Federal Government Pension. Australia remains one of 10 or so countries with a AAA credit rating. My pension is far more secure than any other part of my stash.

The point was, what you said is factually incorrect. All pensions invest in equities. So, by definition they cannot be "not exposed to the stock market" as you said.

Whether they are secure or not is something else entirely.

I understand your point, but not really relevant to what I was saying.

My point was that a major stock market correction is not likely (extremely unlikely) to have any impact on the future cash flows I will enjoy from my pension and I will continue to sleep well at night.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: FOBStash on January 30, 2018, 06:34:20 PM
So stoked to join this thread! Hoping to get to $2.5M as our major FIRE milestone and then $2.5M with a paid off house. Then we will assess going FIRE. We enjoy our jobs for now so no burning need to quit.

Still a ways out since we just hit $2M at the start of the year.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on January 30, 2018, 08:28:02 PM
I guess I can sort of join this thread.
My invested assets and cash in bank account is about $1,635,000 plus about $385,000 of equity in my home, which combined kicks me just above $2 million.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: JoJoP on January 31, 2018, 11:17:32 AM
Welcome DaveAnnArbor and FOBstash!  Great to have you in the thread. 


So here's an interesting link to a bunch of interviews with Millionaires.  https://esimoney.com/millionaire-interview-37/

I haven't had time to read more than a handful of the stories, but what strikes me is the incredibly HUGE income that many of them have.   That said, I don't think they are MMM lifestyles, or some of the ones I've read about would have far more wealth.  Most of them have completely different profiles than mine.  I would consider my path to be more lower income, frugal savings, and high motivation from an early age.   Perhaps these are just your more run of the MILLionaires-- high income, high spending, yet good long term goals and planning that come to fruition.  The interview I just linked, #37, parallels my path in one way:  Real estate investments (he has 6), with $$ obtained from leveraging his personal residence.    I think he makes a valid point, also, that sometimes life gets in the way of our financial goals, and you have to sell something that would be better left alone.   Also, he points out the magic of time in fortune building. 

What do you think of these interviews?  Any comments or observations?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on January 31, 2018, 08:06:26 PM
I agree about the amount of time makes a huge difference in accumulating assets, although I guess the point of this website is that you can reduce that time drastically through ultra -frugality.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Car Jack on February 01, 2018, 07:59:45 AM


So i guess calling it a "race" is a bit nonsenical. Of course there are people for whom $2m or $3M really is not enough, but they have lifestyles that are beyond normal Mustashianism.


Or perhaps it's because of life circumstances.  Let's see....a child with a disability that means that an appropriate school costs $56k a year and takes the spouse's entire day because it's a long drive every day, so she can't work.....and another kid in private college because the parents believe in providing the best education they can....... 

I understand that the Boglehead way seems to be "Send the damn kid to community college until he can pay his own way through school because I want to retire and I don't like hip hop and those man buns and what the hell is it with all the tatoos......the kid wasn't even in the marines?".  It ain't everyone's way.  Some of us care about our kids and are willing to pay for them to have opportunities.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on February 01, 2018, 08:16:55 AM
I would say the Boglehead way is to send the kid to an expensive private college. Many on Bogleheads aspire to retire on many millions of dollars if not tens of millions.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Fomerly known as something on February 01, 2018, 05:07:01 PM
Welcome DaveAnnArbor and FOBstash!  Great to have you in the thread. 


So here's an interesting link to a bunch of interviews with Millionaires.  https://esimoney.com/millionaire-interview-37/

I haven't had time to read more than a handful of the stories, but what strikes me is the incredibly HUGE income that many of them have.   That said, I don't think they are MMM lifestyles, or some of the ones I've read about would have far more wealth.  Most of them have completely different profiles than mine.  I would consider my path to be more lower income, frugal savings, and high motivation from an early age.   Perhaps these are just your more run of the MILLionaires-- high income, high spending, yet good long term goals and planning that come to fruition.  The interview I just linked, #37, parallels my path in one way:  Real estate investments (he has 6), with $$ obtained from leveraging his personal residence.    I think he makes a valid point, also, that sometimes life gets in the way of our financial goals, and you have to sell something that would be better left alone.   Also, he points out the magic of time in fortune building. 

What do you think of these interviews?  Any comments or observations?

I have a hard time reading all the way through most of them.  I kind of see the demographics and think this is someone "not like me."  I think the higher incomes and the OK NW just doesn't inspire me like it could to others.  I guess I should maybe volunteer to be one of them to try to inspire others not like those.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on February 02, 2018, 10:20:09 AM
I guess I can sort of join this thread.
My invested assets and cash in bank account is about $1,635,000 plus about $385,000 of equity in my home, which combined kicks me just above $2 million.
I totally count our primary house. We paid cash for it and it's now worth over $1.4M, so why not? There are other assets that I don't count (rental properties, defined benefit pension) mostly because I'm too lazy to look them up. This is definitely not a race, it's more like a game of horseshoes. But then, that doesn't sound like much of a gauntlet, does it?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: wannabe-stache on February 02, 2018, 10:58:02 AM
i know this is the wrong forum for this but happy to say that we're at the $2.93M mark and i just paid off the rest of our $48k mortgage.

should free up some cash to put into the market going forward.

it will be interesting to see what happens with said market, btw...
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on February 06, 2018, 02:41:41 AM
So.... which camp are you in:

A. The bigger you are the harder you fall. Ie: this small blip in the market set you back a 6 figure sum which is more than 3 or 4% of you net worth; or

B. As you are wealthy and properly diversified this small blip cost you far less than the market movement, like maybe only 1%; or

C. You knew the top was in, shorted the market, made an absolute killing and grew your stash even to a more enviable number??
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on February 06, 2018, 03:12:26 AM
1.5 Tesla drop for me.. I think our investments are slightly under $2m.. but still have $0.5m in pension valuation and at a guess $0.4 or 0.5 in house.

Don't think the baliffs are showing up just yet..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on February 06, 2018, 07:02:40 AM
So.... which camp are you in:

A. The bigger you are the harder you fall. Ie: this small blip in the market set you back a 6 figure sum which is more than 3 or 4% of you net worth; or

B. As you are wealthy and properly diversified this small blip cost you far less than the market movement, like maybe only 1%; or

C. You knew the top was in, shorted the market, made an absolute killing and grew your stash even to a more enviable number??

Somewhere between. I'd happened to pull a bunch out (not because of C, although I suspected, as many of us did) because we are planning to use cash for a remodel. I certainly am also down significantly in our main retirement account as well, so some of A & C.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: markbike528CBX on February 06, 2018, 07:09:36 AM
So.... which camp are you in:

A. The bigger you are the harder you fall. Ie: this small blip in the market set you back a 6 figure sum which is more than 3 or 4% of you net worth; or

B. As you are wealthy and properly diversified this small blip cost you far less than the market movement, like maybe only 1%; or

C. You knew the top was in, shorted the market, made an absolute killing and grew your stash even to a more enviable number??
.

A and 0.01*C.  Almost got the peak when I sold stocks to finish off the house mortgage.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: honeyfill on February 06, 2018, 07:23:45 AM
So.... which camp are you in:

A. The bigger you are the harder you fall. Ie: this small blip in the market set you back a 6 figure sum which is more than 3 or 4% of you net worth; or

B. As you are wealthy and properly diversified this small blip cost you far less than the market movement, like maybe only 1%; or

C. You knew the top was in, shorted the market, made an absolute killing and grew your stash even to a more enviable number??

Mostly A and a little bit of C.  I took out about 1/2 what I needed for the kitchen remodel a week ago but told my self to wait a couple of weeks to take out the rest.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Car Jack on February 06, 2018, 08:00:18 AM
B.

A 50/50 asset allocation helps with reducing volatility.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: farmecologist on February 06, 2018, 08:47:00 AM
So.... which camp are you in:

A. The bigger you are the harder you fall. Ie: this small blip in the market set you back a 6 figure sum which is more than 3 or 4% of you net worth; or

B. As you are wealthy and properly diversified this small blip cost you far less than the market movement, like maybe only 1%; or

C. You knew the top was in, shorted the market, made an absolute killing and grew your stash even to a more enviable number??

..hmm none of the above? 

I have to add a little story here.  I cashed out a large amount of old mutual funds from a previous employer to 'consolidate' them into my brokerage account.  Mostly so I can manage tax costs better.   I did this at what turned out to be very near the market high.  So I 'timed' the marked by Complete, dumb luck....but I'll take it! 




Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on February 06, 2018, 09:21:21 AM
Thanks for the replies.

I was down about 1.4% NW at the close of Aus markets earlier today.

Made the call to stop buying stocks in December when the Aussie market had a massive run up, and to start paying down debt quicker. This was a decision to deleverage a little before FIRE next year.

If the market drops another 5% I will prob say screw conservatism, redraw the money off my loan, and buy more stocks at the cheaper price.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on February 06, 2018, 02:47:38 PM
Sort-of answer here: I am trustee/executor of my parent's estate. I'm in the process of consolidating some stuff. The very awful company cashed out all the stock in late December, in anticipation of finally following my instructions to move it to the very less awful company. When the transfer didn't happen (not really surprised) we missed the total run-up. Guess we're safely on the sidelines now. Accidental market timing, perhaps?

As for our own real numbers, meh, I haven't checked. We have a lot of cash sitting on the sidelines, so we could toss some in, but I think I'll wait until the Jim Cramer types are screaming that the end of the world is near before pulling the trigger. Oh, except that I don't watch Jim Cramer or any of the rest of them. Will somebody let me know when it's time, please?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on February 06, 2018, 06:06:47 PM
I'm in CAT A.  Lost about 100k.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on February 06, 2018, 08:30:48 PM
I'm in CAT A.  Lost about 100k.

Sorry to hear that.

I guess when with the bulls occasionally one of the buggers will step on your foot. Sure this causes short term pain, but in the long run a bruised hoof is not going to stop you surging to your destination where you will graze on sweet pastures.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: wannabe-stache on February 07, 2018, 10:59:07 AM
So.... which camp are you in:

A. The bigger you are the harder you fall. Ie: this small blip in the market set you back a 6 figure sum which is more than 3 or 4% of you net worth; or

B. As you are wealthy and properly diversified this small blip cost you far less than the market movement, like maybe only 1%; or

C. You knew the top was in, shorted the market, made an absolute killing and grew your stash even to a more enviable number??

D i suppose. young investor here, heavily exposed to equity mutual funds, lost a lot of $ on paper ($30K in one day - ouch!) and looking forward to putting more money to work for another 10-15 years according to the terms of my investment philosophy statement.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on February 07, 2018, 08:31:51 PM
So.... which camp are you in:

A. The bigger you are the harder you fall. Ie: this small blip in the market set you back a 6 figure sum which is more than 3 or 4% of you net worth; or

B. As you are wealthy and properly diversified this small blip cost you far less than the market movement, like maybe only 1%; or

C. You knew the top was in, shorted the market, made an absolute killing and grew your stash even to a more enviable number??

Another 'none of the above'.  Although I've been aware that the markets are freaking out as opposed to going straight up, I have only a vague idea (within 100k) of my net worth and even less idea what these gyrations have done to the portfolio.  I did check in on my son's 529 since those funds are coming closer to being tapped.  There's ~110k in a moderately aggressive 70/30 fund, so I might move to a more conservative 50/50 fund, but it's a small optimization in the whole scheme of things.  I still feel pretty good about my (thus far too conservative) AA, given that we have 'enough' and sufficient opportunity to make money in bond-like income.

Getting excited that long-bond income is finally on the rise though!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: AdrianC on February 08, 2018, 08:12:11 AM
Definitely an 'A', not that it makes any difference to me. Surprised more people on here aren't 'A's.

3-4% drop after a 25% rise in one year...no worries.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on February 08, 2018, 11:50:36 PM
Yeah, no worries, but now down more than $50K for the week 😳
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: bwall on February 09, 2018, 10:30:57 AM
Just now found this thread and it's amazing. . . . I don't think anyone has used the term High Net Worth Individuals (HWNI) yet, but it applies to everyone with $1m in investible assets, not to mention $2m. Here is the definition per wiki:

High-net-worth individual (HNWI) is a term used by some segments of the financial services industry to designate persons whose investible assets (such as stocks and bonds) exceed a given amount. Typically, these individuals are defined as holding financial assets (excluding their primary residence) with a value greater than US$1 million.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-net-worth_individual

Here's another article talking about the growth and distribution of HWNI's.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/09/28/number-high-net-worth-individuals-hits-all-time-high-165-million/

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on February 10, 2018, 04:50:23 AM
I  think High Net Worth Individual needs to be redefined.   I'd term that to be closer to 5 million.  If you have 1 million invested outside of home and pensions you have a nice pad, but in 2018 it's not high net worth.  It's bare bones living without extra income if retired.  Some here can do it.  If they do, they are very frugal.   I think you start to feel wealth at about 2.5 million invested, on up to about 5 million.   After 5 million your what I'd think of as rich and ready to take on the more risky investments of HNWI.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on February 10, 2018, 08:53:22 AM
$5M USD is a huge sum of money. In Australia it would put you in the top 1% based on Net Worth. I am not even talking investable assets.

Do you think that is the pass mark for HNWI in a wealthy developed country (top 1%)?


Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on February 10, 2018, 09:03:26 AM
$5M USD is a huge sum of money. In Australia it would put you in the top 1% based on Net Worth. I am not even talking investable assets.

Do you think that is the pass mark for HNWI in a wealthy developed country (top 1%)?

If you're living on 1 million invested as a sole income stream, you're the typical millionaire next door.  There is very little flash living on 40k a year.  You're basically middle class but not having to work. (Mustacian)   At the 5 million invested level you can have flashy house, cars, vacations, parties...the things truly rich people do.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Car Jack on February 10, 2018, 11:29:27 AM
I believe $40k is under the poverty line for a family of 4.  If there is other sources of income (social security, pension, occasional bank robbery), then it's not a lot to get above the line.  But it ain't livin' high, that's for sure.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on February 10, 2018, 12:01:55 PM
A few generalisations of course.

I.e do you have kids? Location?.. $40k in NYC won't go far but in rural Wyoming it would.

If you live in UK your healthcare costs would also be zero.

We live in Oregon on our 5.5 acres (2 adults) and with the house paid off we consistently spend around $30k/year. But we have probably skimped on insurance during the accumulation phase so we are now paying about $1500/year more to protect our stash from lawsuits.

Assume we have a couple of vacations at say $10k would put us right at $40k/year.. If we had to pay fell whack on our HC premiums that would add another $14k.

So $55k for living decent in FIRE for us.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on February 10, 2018, 08:27:55 PM
A few generalisations of course.

I.e do you have kids? Location?.. $40k in NYC won't go far but in rural Wyoming it would.

If you live in UK your healthcare costs would also be zero.

We live in Oregon on our 5.5 acres (2 adults) and with the house paid off we consistently spend around $30k/year. But we have probably skimped on insurance during the accumulation phase so we are now paying about $1500/year more to protect our stash from lawsuits.

Assume we have a couple of vacations at say $10k would put us right at $40k/year.. If we had to pay fell whack on our HC premiums that would add another $14k.

So $55k for living decent in FIRE for us.

So you over saved??
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on February 11, 2018, 12:16:30 AM
A few generalisations of course.

I.e do you have kids? Location?.. $40k in NYC won't go far but in rural Wyoming it would.

If you live in UK your healthcare costs would also be zero.

We live in Oregon on our 5.5 acres (2 adults) and with the house paid off we consistently spend around $30k/year. But we have probably skimped on insurance during the accumulation phase so we are now paying about $1500/year more to protect our stash from lawsuits.

Assume we have a couple of vacations at say $10k would put us right at $40k/year.. If we had to pay fell whack on our HC premiums that would add another $14k.

So $55k for living decent in FIRE for us.

So you over saved??


Yes at 4% our income could be about $115k/yr.. Prior to the correction at least.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: bigchrisb on February 11, 2018, 03:13:00 AM
Category a for me. Down over 100k, or about 3%. Given I gained the same the month before, I'm not exactly losing sleep!

As for "high net worth" classifications, the cynic in me thinks it's a bracket thought up by the financial sharks (advisors, fund managers and hedge funds), not because it's a mark of independent wealth, but rather a target market.  I'd like to be collecting 2% on someone else's investable assets!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: bwall on February 11, 2018, 09:40:21 AM
As for "high net worth" classifications, the cynic in me thinks it's a bracket thought up by the financial sharks (advisors, fund managers and hedge funds), not because it's a mark of independent wealth, but rather a target market.  I'd like to be collecting 2% on someone else's investable assets!

I believe your analysis to be accurate, not cynical. Giving a demographic a name helps in lots of ways. As you mention, financial advisors provided the definition for their own purposes, such as allowing actors across the industry to identify a 'whale' when they see one. However, the same classification also allows the 'marks' to know that they've been identified as such and then to react accordingly. By knowing better how scare the cohort you belong to is, it allows you to better understand the motivations of financial advisors you may encounter.

For example, a couple of months ago I was in Europe trying to open a business bank account. The gentleman I spoke with began the conversation by saying that they had strict requirements for new account holders, such as monthly fees of 60 EUR and minimum capital of 500,000 EUR. "Not a problem", I said. And, immediately the tone of the conversation changed significantly. I hung up the phone and it occurred to me that the banker doesn't get such phone calls often.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on February 11, 2018, 10:37:26 AM
Category a for me. Down over 100k, or about 3%. Given I gained the same the month before, I'm not exactly losing sleep!

As for "high net worth" classifications, the cynic in me thinks it's a bracket thought up by the financial sharks (advisors, fund managers and hedge funds), not because it's a mark of independent wealth, but rather a target market.  I'd like to be collecting 2% on someone else's investable assets!

So you have $3.3M?... Nice..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on February 11, 2018, 01:35:32 PM
Category a for me. Down over 100k, or about 3%. Given I gained the same the month before, I'm not exactly losing sleep!

As for "high net worth" classifications, the cynic in me thinks it's a bracket thought up by the financial sharks (advisors, fund managers and hedge funds), not because it's a mark of independent wealth, but rather a target market.  I'd like to be collecting 2% on someone else's investable assets!

So you have $3.3M?... Nice..:)
Hmmm, I think those might be Aussie dollars. Still mighty nice, but they don't stretch quite as far as USD.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: bigchrisb on February 11, 2018, 02:01:27 PM
Category a for me. Down over 100k, or about 3%. Given I gained the same the month before, I'm not exactly losing sleep!

As for "high net worth" classifications, the cynic in me thinks it's a bracket thought up by the financial sharks (advisors, fund managers and hedge funds), not because it's a mark of independent wealth, but rather a target market.  I'd like to be collecting 2% on someone else's investable assets!

So you have $3.3M?... Nice..:)
Hmmm, I think those might be Aussie dollars. Still mighty nice, but they don't stretch quite as far as USD.
Yep, Pacific Pesos. I don't convert as,
A) I save and spend in Aud, and
B) the exchange rate is quite volatile, having ranged between 1.1 and 0.7 usd in recent memory.
Current conversion puts me at about 2.5m in greenbacks.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on February 11, 2018, 02:27:01 PM
Still a sizable stash.. Well done..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: farmecologist on February 11, 2018, 09:18:52 PM
As for "high net worth" classifications, the cynic in me thinks it's a bracket thought up by the financial sharks (advisors, fund managers and hedge funds), not because it's a mark of independent wealth, but rather a target market.  I'd like to be collecting 2% on someone else's investable assets!

'Accredited investor' is also a classification and is currently required by law for some investments such as PeerStreet, etc...

  https://info.peerstreet.com/glossary/accredited-investor/

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on February 12, 2018, 01:24:43 AM
As for "high net worth" classifications, the cynic in me thinks it's a bracket thought up by the financial sharks (advisors, fund managers and hedge funds), not because it's a mark of independent wealth, but rather a target market.  I'd like to be collecting 2% on someone else's investable assets!

'Accredited investor' is also a classification and is currently required by law for some investments such as PeerStreet, etc...

  https://info.peerstreet.com/glossary/accredited-investor/

I'd qualify by item number 2.  Doesn't mean much, I'm not qualified in any way to play with big boy investments.  I've got primal fear just buying some individual stocks.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on February 12, 2018, 10:23:14 AM
Well folks, itís a big pay day today 👀
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on February 12, 2018, 12:02:54 PM
Good.  I'm down over 100k.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on February 12, 2018, 12:16:33 PM
Good.  I'm down over 100k.

Only about 1.0 Tesla's then..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on February 13, 2018, 04:14:32 AM
Good.  I'm down over 100k.

Only about 1.0 Tesla's then..:)

Sub 100k losses now.  Not Model X or P100D Model S.  Getting into Model 3 range.


😁
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: JoJoP on February 27, 2018, 10:04:53 AM
Category a for me. Down over 100k, or about 3%. Given I gained the same the month before, I'm not exactly losing sleep!

As for "high net worth" classifications, the cynic in me thinks it's a bracket thought up by the financial sharks (advisors, fund managers and hedge funds), not because it's a mark of independent wealth, but rather a target market.  I'd like to be collecting 2% on someone else's investable assets!

I agree.  It's like the old song "Would you walk away from a fool and his money?"  Once they know you've got some, you might as well paint a bulls-eye on your forehead.  I wanted to be a Chase Private Client, because at the time it allowed you to get the valuable 100,000 point Chase Sapphire Reserve credit card, even if you had a lot of recent credit cards open.  CPC allowed an override of policy restrictions.  The CPC query happened right AFTER we took our liquid cash and bought an investment property.  So our funds at Chase were shy of private client material, and they kept an eagle eye on our assets to make sure we surpassed the requirements within a couple of months.  Then they requested multiple meetings with the Investment Banker, whose goal was to get us to move our assets over to him for "management."  No thanks, I said.  We'll keep an eye on our own money, thanks anyway. 

As an aside, the Private Client status does give some perks, such as fee free ATMs world wide.  That's been handy on our international travels. 

Hope you all rebounded from the dip.  We're mostly in real estate, so I didn't even look to see what happened with my brokerage account.   I'm only sorry that I didn't have some spare cash to buy on the dip.   ExFlyBoy, are you back with us yet?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: JoJoP on February 27, 2018, 10:32:28 AM
I  think High Net Worth Individual needs to be redefined.   I'd term that to be closer to 5 million.  If you have 1 million invested outside of home and pensions you have a nice pad, but in 2018 it's not high net worth.  It's bare bones living without extra income if retired.  Some here can do it.  If they do, they are very frugal.   I think you start to feel wealth at about 2.5 million invested, on up to about 5 million.   After 5 million your what I'd think of as rich and ready to take on the more risky investments of HNWI.

 Great point, Bateaux.  This is the shame of it... very few people (relative to the population) have 1 Million, yet, using the 4% rule/$40K a year, as a barometer, it still requires frugal living if you expect it to last a lifetime.  You'll have a hard time being in an Assisted Living facility on 40K a year.  And if both members of a couple make it that long, forget it on $40K.  But, hopefully the assets will be growing and keeping pace as one ages, so the 4% will meet the requirements.   

Here's my inner skeptic: I think the term HNW basically means to the financial world that this person might need a financial adviser or an investment banker.  As noted above, it's a marketing term. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: dogboyslim on February 27, 2018, 12:14:25 PM
This is the difference between looking at wealth and looking at income.  I feel its difficult to classify anyone with >$1 MM as anything BUT a high net worth individual.  You may or may not be living only off the assets, but just by sitting on our butts we can generate more income than 40% of the household population in the US.  I struggle with a concept that says this is the same as someone with no or zero net worth and a similar income.  They are in no way the same thing.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on February 28, 2018, 11:51:56 PM
I'm still waiting on the secret handshake of the HNW club.  So far I very much feel like an outsider.   It took us a long time to get here.   Maybe it was so gradual we didn't notice.

I'm looking at homes in Florida to retire to in the 200 to 300k range.  I remember that being so much money to me once.  We gained that much in NW in the last year.  I guess it's real.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on March 01, 2018, 12:30:18 AM
I'm still waiting on the secret handshake of the HNW club.  So far I very much feel like an outsider.

Well, if it helps, I feel like Ted Cruz gave me a secret handshake (https://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanellis/2017/12/04/ted-cruz-529-education-savings-amendment-to-tax-reform-is-a-big-win-for-families/#20760a106c45) now that I can use some of our burgeoning 529 funds for my daughter's private schooling in Texas.  Funds that have appreciated nicely since 2003 are able to be spent tax free up to 10k.  And I feel pretty good about spending them now before the market craps out!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on March 01, 2018, 12:36:18 AM
For some reason we can exchange this magic creation of numbers for real things.  I mean, we didn't have to trade hours for these dollars. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Car Jack on March 01, 2018, 08:10:00 AM
The Ken Fisher ad that splashes across the top of Marketwatch for me uses $500k as their number.  I think it's just a number to fish out clients who want to feel like big shots being high net worth and using "their guy" to manage their weath.

"Private Client" was mentioned and I know Fidelity gives you this designation if your account is over $1M.  With this, you get a Private Client manager which means that when you call Fidelity for a generic question, you have to tell them "no, I don't want to be transferred to my private client manager because it'll land in his voicemail and I won't hear for 3 days what the answer to my simple question is".  On the good side, it means that you get turbo tax for free.  There's a trick to get not only online but downloaded versions.  I did it this year just to see if I could get it.  I was able to.

I work in a 3 building business complex.  One building is chock full of Wealth Management firms.  The question "Where are all the customers' yachts?" comes to mind.  In the parking lot, I see on my lunchtime walk every day: Maserati Quattroporte, Maserati Ghibli, BMW i8, Audi S5, Porsche 911 turbo S, Mercedes E300 4 matic, Jaguar sedan (I forgot what they're called....something R).  Makes me chuckle that they're "managing" to turn the wealth of their clients into their own to waste on big dollar cars (and I'm a car guy).
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: dogboyslim on March 01, 2018, 08:30:09 AM
I give these guys more of a pass on the high dollar cars.  Don't think about this group, think about normal people.  Are they more going to trust giving all their money to the person driving the early 2000's Honda civic, or the person driving the known expensive car?

I think Lexus/Audi A6 is sufficient for that purpose though, so I don't give a complete pass.  Still, I want a DB9.  I will NEVER buy one, but I want one!

Also, Vanguard calls us Flagship clients.  If I get to $5M, I get to be a Flagship Select Client!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on March 01, 2018, 08:30:46 AM
My broker used to classify me as a premium client, then I became a platinum client. Iíll have to change brokers to become a private client I suppose. I want to level up 😁
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on March 01, 2018, 01:25:53 PM
We've been trying to dump an Ameriprise account for over a month.  They keep dragging it out.  Going straight to VTSAX the minute they allow the transfer.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Secretly Saving on March 01, 2018, 03:16:15 PM
"Private Client" was mentioned and I know Fidelity gives you this designation if your account is over $1M.  With this, you get a Private Client manager which means that when you call Fidelity for a generic question, you have to tell them "no, I don't want to be transferred to my private client manager because it'll land in his voicemail and I won't hear for 3 days what the answer to my simple question is".  On the good side, it means that you get turbo tax for free.  There's a trick to get not only online but downloaded versions.  I did it this year just to see if I could get it.  I was able to.

What's the trick?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on March 01, 2018, 05:32:22 PM
I give these guys more of a pass on the high dollar cars.  Don't think about this group, think about normal people.  Are they more going to trust giving all their money to the person driving the early 2000's Honda civic, or the person driving the known expensive car?

I think Lexus/Audi A6 is sufficient for that purpose though, so I don't give a complete pass.  Still, I want a DB9.  I will NEVER buy one, but I want one!

Also, Vanguard calls us Flagship clients.  If I get to $5M, I get to be a Flagship Select Client!

In order to get to one of these favoured status's I'd have to move all my money to one place.. But heck if I combine mine and my Wife's accounts just at Vanguard we are over $1M there.. Rest of the 401k's are spread about so that keeps us incognito..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on March 02, 2018, 01:15:08 AM
We have a mortgage with Chase, plus our checking and savings. There is a LOT of cash there right now, because we are actively searching for our next real estate project. They consistently bug us about becoming Private Clients. Yes, I may have enough to meet their minimum, but I'll be damned if I'm going to have them manage my money. And it kind of pisses me off that they won't count the mortgage for qualifying purposes.

Oh, well. We're somehow managing to live a pretty happy life without being Chase Private Clients, lol!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: wannabe-stache on March 09, 2018, 12:57:59 PM
i wasn't tracking NW until May 2017 and it's up an unreal amount in that time frame.  started at $2.1M, ended the year at $2.8M.

With some year end bonus payments expected this month, at this pace (putting aside market volatility) i would bet anything we're at $3.0M by mid Feb if not sooner. it's unreal how it grows even from day to day.

Calling myself to task for that statement. i cursed us all.

but, we've continued down the savings path and with the recent runup, we are at $2.985M.  $15K to go, which of course could become $100K to go in a flash as February pointed out.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: webguy on March 09, 2018, 01:40:34 PM
Can I join your thread?  We just hit 2M yesterday! And with the friendly market today we're up another 15k already!  I'm carrying over our progress from the race to 2M thread if that's OK as I like keeping track of it this way.

I'd like to join to help motivate me. Currently at $540k and hope to hit the big 1M in the next couple of years.

I made it to $748k! Keep saving everybody!!

I made it to $988k and was getting excited... and then taxes hit! Looks like it'll be another few months yet :(

I finally did it!! Crawled over the line to $1,000,330 today!  Feels pretty surreal. Never thought I'd actually be worth a million dollars. Now I guess I keep on saving towards the next million!

Currently at $1.11m.  Don't really have a goal number at this point. I love running my own business so just tryna ride it out as long as possible and "make hay while the sun shines" as they say.

Passed the half way point!  Somehow we have $1.535m. Not sure how long the next 0.465 will take but I'll report back if we get there!

It took a little longer than Iíd hoped due to the market being a douchebag lately but we Just hit 2 million today! Weíre officially multi-millionaires I guess! I crunched the numbers and I think our ďfat fireĒ number is around 2.5-3M so Iíll probably keep trucking away till we hit that, then Iím not sure what Iíll do.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: markbike528CBX on March 09, 2018, 07:11:37 PM
@webguy , once you are in , you are in forever, only upward ...and beyond! are ways to exit.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: bluebelle on March 10, 2018, 09:18:05 AM
just popped in to say I've enjoyed the first 10 days of March far more than the first 10 days of Feb.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: carstenjames on March 10, 2018, 09:22:52 AM
@webguy congratulations!  Looking through your posts it seems you have started a successful software business?  Would you mind sharing what kind of software you make and how you sell it?  Would love to hear your story!  I am addicted to successful entrepreneurial stories :)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Car Jack on March 13, 2018, 07:58:06 AM
"Private Client" was mentioned and I know Fidelity gives you this designation if your account is over $1M.  With this, you get a Private Client manager which means that when you call Fidelity for a generic question, you have to tell them "no, I don't want to be transferred to my private client manager because it'll land in his voicemail and I won't hear for 3 days what the answer to my simple question is".  On the good side, it means that you get turbo tax for free.  There's a trick to get not only online but downloaded versions.  I did it this year just to see if I could get it.  I was able to.

What's the trick?

I can't remember, but I remember going in and you have the choice to order a number of options.  The online is free.  I think I clicked the downloadable version and 3 or 4 options came up....one of them being free.  I could be off on how I got it......maybe there was a charge but then a minus equal amount on checkout.  Didn't take me more than 2 minutes screwing around to get it.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: JoJoP on March 29, 2018, 03:22:06 PM
Can I join your thread?  We just hit 2M yesterday! And with the friendly market today we're up another 15k already!  I'm carrying over our progress from the race to 2M thread if that's OK as I like keeping track of it this way.

I'd like to join to help motivate me. Currently at $540k and hope to hit the big 1M in the next couple of years.

I made it to $748k! Keep saving everybody!!

I made it to $988k and was getting excited... and then taxes hit! Looks like it'll be another few months yet :(

I finally did it!! Crawled over the line to $1,000,330 today!  Feels pretty surreal. Never thought I'd actually be worth a million dollars. Now I guess I keep on saving towards the next million!

Currently at $1.11m.  Don't really have a goal number at this point. I love running my own business so just tryna ride it out as long as possible and "make hay while the sun shines" as they say.

Passed the half way point!  Somehow we have $1.535m. Not sure how long the next 0.465 will take but I'll report back if we get there!

It took a little longer than I’d hoped due to the market being a douchebag lately but we Just hit 2 million today! We’re officially multi-millionaires I guess! I crunched the numbers and I think our “fat fire” number is around 2.5-3M so I’ll probably keep trucking away till we hit that, then I’m not sure what I’ll do.

Hi webguy, welcome!  I like looking at the dates of your quotes... you really flew through that second million quickly.   Congrats and welcome to the thread.  It's kind of a lifetime status thread.  Once you hit these numbers,  you just hang around with us from now on.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: soccerluvof4 on April 01, 2018, 06:55:22 AM
Was in the middle of these parameters, crept across the finish line only to get punched back down. Feel like a whack a mole! Currently excluding paid for house around the 3/4 mark after being hit by the market downward move. Being 3 years fire'd though a lot more positive!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: wannabe-stache on April 21, 2018, 08:26:19 PM
Finally made it after April bonus payments came through. Including home equity were at $3.1M. I will say that itís a very ďho humĒ feeling to cross the threshold. Maybe it will be more exciting when we are at $3M of investments.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: honeyfill on April 28, 2018, 10:14:08 PM
still hanging in there at 2.45 million. took a big hit in Jan/Feb in the market and in paying off the kitchen remodel but on the road to recovery now.  Still planning on June 1 retirement!!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on April 30, 2018, 06:52:48 PM
still hanging in there at 2.45 million. took a big hit in Jan/Feb in the market and in paying off the kitchen remodel but on the road to recovery now.  Still planning on June 1 retirement!!

At least you're well above the 2M dollar hump.  We came within $31k before the market turned.  Now we're over $90k short.  When the time comes I'm sure we'll flynright past the 2M mark.  Good luck!  June is so very close now.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on May 01, 2018, 12:45:01 AM
still hanging in there at 2.45 million. took a big hit in Jan/Feb in the market and in paying off the kitchen remodel but on the road to recovery now.  Still planning on June 1 retirement!!

At least you're well above the 2M dollar hump.  We came within $31k before the market turned.  Now we're over $90k short.  When the time comes I'm sure we'll flynright past the 2M mark.  Good luck!  June is so very close now.

In a queer opposition to frugality and Mustachianism, I'm finding that our initial forays into largess (donating more as we crest our monetary goals, and not being caught up in watching the numbers click up and down like a nightly basketball game (Go Rockets!)) are resulting in more tangible riches, both metaphysically and fundamentally. 

The world, as it is, provides 'sustainably' for our foreseeable existence, and so I give back as a gift in expectation that everyone will enjoy a similar lifestyle in the future.  I want this beautiful world to continue for our children, because it is more than I ever could have hoped for, but I do worry that it is being eroded.

I was drawn to Pete by his lofty 'save the world through environmentalism' verve. Hopefully this site doesn't end up in the dustbin of history as a money grab, since he seems pretty complacent nowadays that he's sitting on a gold mine.

I always wondered, just to be totally transparent, about how a home construction enthusiast could also be hardcore environmentalist.  There is nothing more wasteful than upgrading or gutting a home.  His description rebuilding their 2nd home (http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/12/20/shaving-the-costly-edges-from-a-major-renovation/) ... 
Quote
The other challenge is the odd feeling of suddenly becoming one of the biggest consumers in town. Almost every day I have to buy stuff. Tools, materials, and supplies are needed in abundance for a project like this, and so Iíve spent about $20,000 in the past three months. On top of all that steel, there is a huge pile of engineered lumber taking up most of the back driveway and more deliveries on the way. I try to remind myself that itís an investment, and the money will be returned many times over when we sell our current house (this downsizing will free up over $100,000, even after all these renovation costs). But I still see the trucks and forklifts, steel and wood, cardboard and plastic wrap, and canít help but notice that for now I am chewing up a huge share of my own planet just to build myself a dwelling.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on May 03, 2018, 09:05:01 PM
Didn't Pete also install solar panels, buy an electric car, but moreover mainly use a bicycle to get around?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on May 10, 2018, 08:32:21 AM
Checked off another million milestone recently (I try not to celebrate right away, just in case I meander up and down a few times, but I'm solidly there now).  Being in the oil industry doesn't hurt. 

I'm finding that my spending is beginning to tick up this year too.  I'm fortunate that this doesn't seem to be a problem.  Hope everyone's races are going well!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on May 10, 2018, 11:33:46 AM
I'm getting closer to 2 million now that the market has gone back up, I was there in late January.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on May 10, 2018, 08:32:01 PM
The past few sessions have done a lot.  Within 50k or so of the 2 million liquid point.  We peaked at 1.969 million liquid previous.   The firehose is still flowing so we just need a little more market push to get past the next milestone.  I know it's only been a few months, but it seems we've been stuck in this range forever.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on May 17, 2018, 04:56:09 PM
We are past $3M with the crazy market, but plan to invest a bunch in a remodel, which may drop our cash flow, but positively increase our house value. So . . . I'll keep coming back & consider this my "home". I have no idea how property values in the bay area will continue to grow/drop/stabilize. After we pay for this remodel, we will do other facepunch worthy things like potentially buying a rental property in Hawaii. So, there's that.

I'm concerned that the housing market just cannot maintain its current trajectory. I'm in the Bay Area. We've past the $3.4M mark, but much of that is in real estate, which is . . . unsteady IMO.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on May 17, 2018, 10:58:00 PM

I'm concerned that the housing market just cannot maintain its current trajectory. I'm in the Bay Area. We've past the $3.4M mark, but much of that is in real estate, which is . . . unsteady IMO.

Like you I have a house that is rather expensive, but in Sydney. Over the last year it has been dropping in value by around $10,000 a month. It is like my FIRE plans have a slow leak and I am working away feverishly to keep pumping more air in, but am proving a little ineffective due the the leak.

We internd to sell the house when we FIRE and move somewhere cheaper but for a variety of reasons are not ready to sell yet. I do hope that the slow leak does not become a full blown blow out, but I donít think so. I do however, expect prices to continue to ease.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on May 18, 2018, 07:23:51 AM
that's what I worry about, @itchyfeet . We are on track for retirement without the house as anything more as shelter (e.g. no cash out), but our retirement plans would be much more flexible if the house at least maintains current value.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on May 19, 2018, 09:06:50 PM
What if you were to sell the house now and then rent ?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on May 20, 2018, 08:42:49 AM
What if you were to sell the house now and then rent ?

Not sure if you're referring to me or @itchyfeet . For us, we have two kids in school, and there are few to no long term rental options in our area. We will stay the course until our youngest graduates, and then evaluate where things stand
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on May 20, 2018, 08:54:07 AM
We are currently living in the Middle East, and our house in Sydney is rented out. Once we FIRE we will move back to Sydney and take stock of everything and start looking into where we will move to.

DW will do some casual work to pay ourselves a little rent until we move somewhere cheaper. We are thinking we might live in Sydney for 2 or 3 years after we repatriate as we would like to reconnect with friends and family, and just make sure I donít need to go back to work to top up the finances. Job prospects for me are far better in Sydney compared to places we are considering to move to once we sell.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on May 21, 2018, 11:18:11 AM
The past few sessions have done a lot.  Within 50k or so of the 2 million liquid point.  We peaked at 1.969 million liquid previous.   The firehose is still flowing so we just need a little more market push to get past the next milestone.  I know it's only been a few months, but it seems we've been stuck in this range forever.

Looks like we have also just crossed the $2M liquid judging by where we were when the S&P500 was at these levels in January.

It would be nice if the market started making new highs from here.. :)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on May 21, 2018, 11:50:44 AM
The past few sessions have done a lot.  Within 50k or so of the 2 million liquid point.  We peaked at 1.969 million liquid previous.   The firehose is still flowing so we just need a little more market push to get past the next milestone.  I know it's only been a few months, but it seems we've been stuck in this range forever.

Looks like we have also just crossed the $2M liquid judging by where we were when the S&P500 was at these levels in January.

It would be nice if the market started making new highs from here.. :)

Congrats to you freshly minted double millionaires, and hereís to yet another new mother of all tops. 😁
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on May 21, 2018, 12:07:10 PM
Thanks Itchy.. I must say that 0.8% WR was getting scary with the market going down in Feb..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on May 23, 2018, 07:03:07 PM
2018 has seen my accounts nudge right to the edge of 2M liquid only to have the market immediately decline.   We're about to put a 20 percent down payment on a second home.  That won't be considered liquid so it may be even longer till.we reach the magic 2M liquid number.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on May 23, 2018, 07:31:37 PM
Having a second home to escape winter seems like a great idea as I get older.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on May 23, 2018, 10:08:59 PM
Having a second home to escape winter seems like a great idea as I get older.

The home will eventually be permanent and yes, Florida.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Much Fishing to Do on May 30, 2018, 07:58:35 AM
I guess I've accidentally found myself here.  Used to make ~$120k year but was away from home traveling for work all the time, and couldn't stand the work, it was depressing.  I had always seen about $1M-$1.5M invested as the number I needed to get out as we seemed to get by fine on $50k/yr, realizing with a growing family there were a lot of unknowns.

9 years ago, at the age of 36, when I had about $300k in retirement savings and a paid for $200k house and had just had my third child I finally had the guts and the client contacts to start a business where I and my employees could all work from home, figuring if I failed I wouldn't be broke, would start a phase of semi-retirements, and most importantly at the time would just be home either way. After making less for a number of years (though plenty to cover our expenses and save well) the work and net profit exploded.  Over the past couple of years the amount of work got to me and I was close to checking out but I've since finally figured out how to shift much of the responsibility to employees and thru client partnership ventures.

Last year I netted about $500k and this year will likely be $1M+ (extremely volatile from month to month, next year could very well be $200k as it could be $1M).  For these years taxes are now by far the primary financial focus as what I'll pay in taxes this year alone is many times what we spend.  Needing new financial goals I've filled 529s to the tune of $120k for each child and started a DAF to help with taxes which I'll use throughout FIRE to make charitable donations from, and investments not including 529s have built to about $2.8M with a total net worth of about $3.6M.  We've let our spending increase and now basically buy everything we want to, go on any trip we want to (and can find the time for), etc, but for this family of 5, $100k pretty much covers all that.

The 'problem' that obviously emerged is how to downshift without quitting, as quitting is no longer the holy grail as it once was.  I feel personally obligated to employees to keep things rolling, my workday stresses me out and takes too much of my time but I certainly don't "hate" it, I'm actually quite proud of it now, and its hard to not notice what OMY of work can do right now, even though we obviously have more than enough.  I think I'm finally getting somewhere on the transfer of responsibilities and reducing stress.  Its really really funny how many people think you have a hidden agenda when you try to give up profit in return for handing off responsibility, no one seems to ever understand giving up profit potential and that has actually created some difficulties in this downshifting.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on May 30, 2018, 12:41:58 PM
I guess I've accidentally found myself here.  Used to make ~$120k year but was away from home traveling for work all the time, and couldn't stand the work, it was depressing.  I had always seen about $1M-$1.5M invested as the number I needed to get out as we seemed to get by fine on $50k/yr, realizing with a growing family there were a lot of unknowns.

9 years ago, at the age of 36, when I had about $300k in retirement savings and a paid for $200k house and had just had my third child I finally had the guts and the client contacts to start a business where I and my employees could all work from home, figuring if I failed I wouldn't be broke, would start a phase of semi-retirements, and most importantly at the time would just be home either way. After making less for a number of years (though plenty to cover our expenses and save well) the work and net profit exploded.  Over the past couple of years the amount of work got to me and I was close to checking out but I've since finally figured out how to shift much of the responsibility to employees and thru client partnership ventures.

Last year I netted about $500k and this year will likely be $1M+ (extremely volatile from month to month, next year could very well be $200k as it could be $1M).  For these years taxes are now by far the primary financial focus as what I'll pay in taxes this year alone is many times what we spend.  Needing new financial goals I've filled 529s to the tune of $120k for each child and started a DAF to help with taxes which I'll use throughout FIRE to make charitable donations from, and investments not including 529s have built to about $2.8M with a total net worth of about $3.6M.  We've let our spending increase and now basically buy everything we want to, go on any trip we want to (and can find the time for), etc, but for this family of 5, $100k pretty much covers all that.

The 'problem' that obviously emerged is how to downshift without quitting, as quitting is no longer the holy grail as it once was.  I feel personally obligated to employees to keep things rolling, my workday stresses me out and takes too much of my time but I certainly don't "hate" it, I'm actually quite proud of it now, and its hard to not notice what OMY of work can do right now, even though we obviously have more than enough.  I think I'm finally getting somewhere on the transfer of responsibilities and reducing stress.  Its really really funny how many people think you have a hidden agenda when you try to give up profit in return for handing off responsibility, no one seems to ever understand giving up profit potential and that has actually created some difficulties in this downshifting.
Good for you! In my career, I worked with a number of business owners. A surprising number of them kept the businesses going long after they had "enough", just to keep their employees' livelihoods intact. Eventually, many of them sold the businesses to the employees outright, often acting as the bank until they found their own footing. Win-win.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on June 01, 2018, 06:09:57 PM
Back over the 2 million dollar mark again

$1,631 in liquid net worth
$  383  in home equity if Zillow is to be believed
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: w@nker on June 03, 2018, 08:05:47 PM
I'll join this race.  Sounds like good company and discussion. 

Wife and I are at $2.3M net worth at 35.  I expect to hit $3M in two years at 37.  Even though we are already technically FI, we won't stop there, as we have some significant philanthropic interests that would ideally involve setting up a foundation during ER.  So, may stop at $5M in what will likely be five years at 40, or if not there, certainly the earlier of 45 or $10M.

This whole snowball thing is legit.  Insanity.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Roland of Gilead on June 03, 2018, 08:34:53 PM
We are retired but might get to the $2M mark with speculative biotech investing.  I only play around with $100k but already have generated $400,000 in gains from it.  Taxes start to put a crimp in things.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: texxan1 on June 03, 2018, 08:46:01 PM
I'm gonna join in this thread and see how long I can stay in it LOL

46 YO single
$1.57m in liquid assets
500k paid for house.

So that puts me barely here, going for 2m liquid before I pull the plug so should be there in about 2 years... but the more and more I calculate the more and more I think that with 1.75m liquid I can bolt..... then I will change my name to FIREnFishing
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on June 04, 2018, 07:10:32 AM
I'm gonna join in this thread and see how long I can stay in it LOL

46 YO single
$1.57m in liquid assets
500k paid for house.

So that puts me barely here, going for 2m liquid before I pull the plug so should be there in about 2 years... but the more and more I calculate the more and more I think that with 1.75m liquid I can bolt..... then I will change my name to FIREnFishing

Wow.  I've need to FIRE quick so I can
steal FIREDnFishing as my handle. 🤣
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: meatgrinder on June 04, 2018, 02:46:58 PM
I'm usually all about stealth wealth but fuck it!  Interwebs anonymity is partial stealth.....

$2.4M net worth. 38yo with stay at home wife and two young kids. Should reach $3M sometime in 2019 (market willing).  Already FI but I'm in the upside down world of not knowing what to do if I were to leave work.  Maybe once my current batch of RSUs vest in a couple years and if the wife joins the work force I'll sit on the couch and watch Jerry Springer reruns.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: FireAndFree on June 07, 2018, 02:33:23 AM
Glad to join all of you on the adventure!

I'm already FIREd. My net worth is currently $2.98M. Hoping to hit $3M in the next 2-3 months.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: soccerluvof4 on June 07, 2018, 03:04:13 AM
I tip toed back and for over the 3 mark but did alot of remodeling, traveling and the dip in the market put me back under. Wouldnt take much to be towing the line again.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on June 07, 2018, 06:21:49 AM
I'm usually all about stealth wealth but fuck it!  Interwebs anonymity is partial stealth.....

$2.4M net worth. 38yo with stay at home wife and two young kids. Should reach $3M sometime in 2019 (market willing).  Already FI but I'm in the upside down world of not knowing what to do if I were to leave work.  Maybe once my current batch of RSUs vest in a couple years and if the wife joins the work force I'll sit on the couch and watch Jerry Springer reruns.

Stealth wealth is fabulous.   All cash-no flash. 

The last few market days have pushed us over the 2MM mark.  Putting a downpayment on the retirement house in a few weeks.   May be back in the class of 2019 if the market holds. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on June 07, 2018, 11:11:03 AM
I'm usually all about stealth wealth but fuck it!  Interwebs anonymity is partial stealth.....

$2.4M net worth. 38yo with stay at home wife and two young kids. Should reach $3M sometime in 2019 (market willing).  Already FI but I'm in the upside down world of not knowing what to do if I were to leave work.  Maybe once my current batch of RSUs vest in a couple years and if the wife joins the work force I'll sit on the couch and watch Jerry Springer reruns.

Stealth wealth is fabulous.   


All cash - no flash.



The last few market ddays have pushed us over the 2MM mark.  Putting a downpayment on the retirement house in a few weeks.   May be back in the class of 2019 if the market holds.
Love this! Oh wait, is that too flashy?  It doesn't have sparkles, so it's okay, right?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on June 07, 2018, 12:04:53 PM
I'm usually all about stealth wealth but fuck it!  Interwebs anonymity is partial stealth.....

$2.4M net worth. 38yo with stay at home wife and two young kids. Should reach $3M sometime in 2019 (market willing).  Already FI but I'm in the upside down world of not knowing what to do if I were to leave work.  Maybe once my current batch of RSUs vest in a couple years and if the wife joins the work force I'll sit on the couch and watch Jerry Springer reruns.

Stealth wealth is fabulous.   


All cash - no flash.



The last few market ddays have pushed us over the 2MM mark.  Putting a downpayment on the retirement house in a few weeks.   May be back in the class of 2019 if the market holds.
Love this! Oh wait, is that too flashy?  It doesn't have sparkles, so it's okay, right?

Dicey, in my most southern accent possible.   YOU are a mess!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on June 08, 2018, 02:31:48 AM
I'm usually all about stealth wealth but fuck it!  Interwebs anonymity is partial stealth.....

$2.4M net worth. 38yo with stay at home wife and two young kids. Should reach $3M sometime in 2019 (market willing).  Already FI but I'm in the upside down world of not knowing what to do if I were to leave work.  Maybe once my current batch of RSUs vest in a couple years and if the wife joins the work force I'll sit on the couch and watch Jerry Springer reruns.

Stealth wealth is fabulous.   


All cash - no flash.



The last few market ddays have pushed us over the 2MM mark.  Putting a downpayment on the retirement house in a few weeks.   May be back in the class of 2019 if the market holds.
Love this! Oh wait, is that too flashy?  It doesn't have sparkles, so it's okay, right?

Dicey, in my most southern accent possible.   YOU are a mess!
Oh, Bateaux, bless your heart, thank you! (Snirt. Did you hear my southern accent too? )
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on June 08, 2018, 08:19:57 AM
We are past $3M with the crazy market, but plan to invest a bunch in a remodel, which may drop our cash flow, but positively increase our house value. So . . . I'll keep coming back & consider this my "home". I have no idea how property values in the bay area will continue to grow/drop/stabilize. After we pay for this remodel, we will do other facepunch worthy things like potentially buying a rental property in Hawaii. So, there's that.

I'm concerned that the housing market just cannot maintain its current trajectory. I'm in the Bay Area. We've past the $3.4M mark, but much of that is in real estate, which is . . . unsteady IMO.

We're now past $3.5M, which feels quite surreal. I'm a waffler on my FIRE date, but this sort of puts it into perspective. I keep promising I will set a revised target & actually do something. (Again, about 1/2 of that is in real estate, so not liquid).
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on June 08, 2018, 08:51:26 AM
We are past $3M with the crazy market, but plan to invest a bunch in a remodel, which may drop our cash flow, but positively increase our house value. So . . . I'll keep coming back & consider this my "home". I have no idea how property values in the bay area will continue to grow/drop/stabilize. After we pay for this remodel, we will do other facepunch worthy things like potentially buying a rental property in Hawaii. So, there's that.

I'm concerned that the housing market just cannot maintain its current trajectory. I'm in the Bay Area. We've past the $3.4M mark, but much of that is in real estate, which is . . . unsteady IMO.

We're now past $3.5M, which feels quite surreal. I'm a waffler on my FIRE date, but this sort of puts it into perspective. I keep promising I will set a revised target & actually do something. (Again, about 1/2 of that is in real estate, so not liquid).

Pull the plug and enjoy the rest of your life.   You've won!  Now, get out there and enjoy the bliss.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on June 08, 2018, 09:02:38 AM
We are past $3M with the crazy market, but plan to invest a bunch in a remodel, which may drop our cash flow, but positively increase our house value. So . . . I'll keep coming back & consider this my "home". I have no idea how property values in the bay area will continue to grow/drop/stabilize. After we pay for this remodel, we will do other facepunch worthy things like potentially buying a rental property in Hawaii. So, there's that.

I'm concerned that the housing market just cannot maintain its current trajectory. I'm in the Bay Area. We've past the $3.4M mark, but much of that is in real estate, which is . . . unsteady IMO.

We're now past $3.5M, which feels quite surreal. I'm a waffler on my FIRE date, but this sort of puts it into perspective. I keep promising I will set a revised target & actually do something. (Again, about 1/2 of that is in real estate, so not liquid).

Pull the plug and enjoy the rest of your life.   You've won!  Now, get out there and enjoy the bliss.
That's me, over here, waving from my corner of the Bay Area, in my stupidly expensive house, not mansion.  My vote is eerily similar to Bateaux'. Get out there and enjoy the days as soon as you can!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: markbike528CBX on June 08, 2018, 09:11:33 AM
We are past $3M with the crazy market, but plan to invest a bunch in a remodel, which may drop our cash flow, but positively increase our house value. So . . . I'll keep coming back & consider this my "home". I have no idea how property values in the bay area will continue to grow/drop/stabilize. After we pay for this remodel, we will do other facepunch worthy things like potentially buying a rental property in Hawaii. So, there's that.

I'm concerned that the housing market just cannot maintain its current trajectory. I'm in the Bay Area. We've past the $3.4M mark, but much of that is in real estate, which is . . . unsteady IMO.

We're now past $3.5M, which feels quite surreal. I'm a waffler on my FIRE date, but this sort of puts it into perspective. I keep promising I will set a revised target & actually do something. (Again, about 1/2 of that is in real estate, so not liquid).

Pull the plug and enjoy the rest of your life.   You've won!  Now, get out there and enjoy the bliss.

@Bateaux, great advice!   You should take your own advice seriously.  Since you are in this thread, you should consider joining us in the 2018 cohort.  As OP of the 2019 thread, you have my permission, if that's what it takes :-)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on June 08, 2018, 09:13:48 AM
We are past $3M with the crazy market, but plan to invest a bunch in a remodel, which may drop our cash flow, but positively increase our house value. So . . . I'll keep coming back & consider this my "home". I have no idea how property values in the bay area will continue to grow/drop/stabilize. After we pay for this remodel, we will do other facepunch worthy things like potentially buying a rental property in Hawaii. So, there's that.

I'm concerned that the housing market just cannot maintain its current trajectory. I'm in the Bay Area. We've past the $3.4M mark, but much of that is in real estate, which is . . . unsteady IMO.

We're now past $3.5M, which feels quite surreal. I'm a waffler on my FIRE date, but this sort of puts it into perspective. I keep promising I will set a revised target & actually do something. (Again, about 1/2 of that is in real estate, so not liquid).

Pull the plug and enjoy the rest of your life.   You've won!  Now, get out there and enjoy the bliss.
That's me, over here, waving from my corner of the Bay Area, in my stupidly expensive house, not mansion.  My vote is eerily similar to Bateaux'. Get out there and enjoy the days as soon as you can!

Whereabouts are you, Dicey? My current conundrum is, while I'm totally done with work (in my mind, haha), I've been offered an opportunity to have a side role (with current company) where I can teach leadership & development classes. I've always thought that would be something I'd want to try out in a flexible FIRE world, and this would be a risk free way to do that. Also, one of my people managers is leaving at the end of the month, and if I also leave, it would make things incredibly challenging for some of my favorite people at work. But, there is never a good time, and I need to remind myself of that. I've promised myself that a realistic end date (no wiggle room, no excuses) is something I need to come to emotional grips with.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on June 08, 2018, 09:41:26 AM
We are past $3M with the crazy market, but plan to invest a bunch in a remodel, which may drop our cash flow, but positively increase our house value. So . . . I'll keep coming back & consider this my "home". I have no idea how property values in the bay area will continue to grow/drop/stabilize. After we pay for this remodel, we will do other facepunch worthy things like potentially buying a rental property in Hawaii. So, there's that.

I'm concerned that the housing market just cannot maintain its current trajectory. I'm in the Bay Area. We've past the $3.4M mark, but much of that is in real estate, which is . . . unsteady IMO.

We're now past $3.5M, which feels quite surreal. I'm a waffler on my FIRE date, but this sort of puts it into perspective. I keep promising I will set a revised target & actually do something. (Again, about 1/2 of that is in real estate, so not liquid).

Pull the plug and enjoy the rest of your life.   You've won!  Now, get out there and enjoy the bliss.
That's me, over here, waving from my corner of the Bay Area, in my stupidly expensive house, not mansion.  My vote is eerily similar to Bateaux'. Get out there and enjoy the days as soon as you can!

Whereabouts are you, Dicey? My current conundrum is, while I'm totally done with work (in my mind, haha), I've been offered an opportunity to have a side role (with current company) where I can teach leadership & development classes. I've always thought that would be something I'd want to try out in a flexible FIRE world, and this would be a risk free way to do that. Also, one of my people managers is leaving at the end of the month, and if I also leave, it would make things incredibly challenging for some of my favorite people at work. But, there is never a good time, and I need to remind myself of that. I've promised myself that a realistic end date (no wiggle room, no excuses) is something I need to come to emotional grips with.
One of the many gifts of having cancer in my early twenties is that I deeply understand how much it's not about work. It will always go on without me, no matter how fantastic I was at my job (Hint: quite competent, but no superstar). Same for my Post-FIRE volunteer activities. As to my whereabouts, I'll PM you. I may or may not be in the Witness* Protection Program.

* I live fairly close to a religious denomination's main meeting place. They regularly knock on my door. I call them my WPP and I'm always nice to them when I open the door.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on June 08, 2018, 10:40:23 AM
We are past $3M with the crazy market, but plan to invest a bunch in a remodel, which may drop our cash flow, but positively increase our house value. So . . . I'll keep coming back & consider this my "home". I have no idea how property values in the bay area will continue to grow/drop/stabilize. After we pay for this remodel, we will do other facepunch worthy things like potentially buying a rental property in Hawaii. So, there's that.

I'm concerned that the housing market just cannot maintain its current trajectory. I'm in the Bay Area. We've past the $3.4M mark, but much of that is in real estate, which is . . . unsteady IMO.

We're now past $3.5M, which feels quite surreal. I'm a waffler on my FIRE date, but this sort of puts it into perspective. I keep promising I will set a revised target & actually do something. (Again, about 1/2 of that is in real estate, so not liquid).

Pull the plug and enjoy the rest of your life.   You've won!  Now, get out there and enjoy the bliss.

@Bateaux, great advice!   You should take your own advice seriously.  Since you are in this thread, you should consider joining us in the 2018 cohort.  As OP of the 2019 thread, you have my permission, if that's what it takes :-)

We're absolutely working on it.   2019 is the earliest unfortunately.   We have two sons to keep in health care a we bit longer and help eject them into the working world.   BUT!  It is possible it's months to go and not years at this point.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on June 08, 2018, 11:20:23 AM
If you're house rich you should consider Harry Sit's blog about how to utilize that toward financing one's life, and not have to move.

https://thefinancebuff.com/fund-retirement-paid-off-home.html
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on June 08, 2018, 04:16:56 PM
S&P500 a mere 3.2% below all time high..:)

That puts us at about 2.544M if I count the silly pension valuations and probably cracks the $3M mark with house.

All seems quite surreal.

Now we have just dropped some serious coin this month i.e..

$4000 on new deck materials
$1000 on my TIG welding set up
$1700 on flights to Europe.

All said and done we will probably spend $40k this year.. but we get $20k in rent.. Like when will I stop worrying that we don't have enough $$$?

Habits of a lifetime I guess?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on June 08, 2018, 08:54:22 PM
S&P500 a mere 3.2% below all time high..:)

That puts us at about 2.544M if I count the silly pension valuations and probably cracks the $3M mark with house.

All seems quite surreal.

Now we have just dropped some serious coin this month i.e..

$4000 on new deck materials
$1000 on my TIG welding set up
$1700 on flights to Europe.

All said and done we will probably spend $40k this year.. but we get $20k in rent.. Like when will I stop worrying that we don't have enough $$$?

Habits of a lifetime I guess?

Love it.  Keep us posted.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: FireAndFree on June 10, 2018, 03:19:15 AM
Well that happened faster than expected. We just crossed the $3M mark. I guess it's time for a new thread?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Roland of Gilead on June 10, 2018, 08:12:41 AM
Well that happened faster than expected. We just crossed the $3M mark. I guess it's time for a new thread?

Might want to recalculate on Monday evening before getting too excited.   I think Trump's G7 tantrum is going to bring markets down 1% to 2% on Monday.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on June 10, 2018, 10:32:44 AM
Nice job though.. Is that liquid or does that include the house?

Personally I ignore the house because its not clear to me how to accurately value it, so in effect you end up guessing at a number which seems less than meaningful to me at least.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on June 10, 2018, 07:59:19 PM
Well that happened faster than expected. We just crossed the $3M mark. I guess it's time for a new thread?

Might want to recalculate on Monday evening before getting too excited.   I think Trump's G7 tantrum is going to bring markets down 1% to 2% on Monday.


Yes on that. And if Trump bungles us into a war with North Korea and/or Iran you can expect a 70% drop in the stock market.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on June 10, 2018, 09:14:36 PM
Well that happened faster than expected. We just crossed the $3M mark. I guess it's time for a new thread?

Might want to recalculate on Monday evening before getting too excited.   I think Trump's G7 tantrum is going to bring markets down 1% to 2% on Monday.


Yes on that. And if Trump bungles us into a war with North Korea and/or Iran you can expect a 70% drop in the stock market.
70%? Really? Is that a promise?  If it is, I'll be scrounging up all the cash I can and going on a stock shopping spree. Yippee!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Roland of Gilead on June 10, 2018, 09:52:52 PM
70%? Really? Is that a promise?  If it is, I'll be scrounging up all the cash I can and going on a stock shopping spree. Yippee!

If we get in a war with North Korea, which will probably draw in China and some type of nuclear exchange, you can go on a stock shopping spree while I go to Costco and buy bulk everything that lasts for awhile.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on June 11, 2018, 12:05:26 AM
70%? Really? Is that a promise?  If it is, I'll be scrounging up all the cash I can and going on a stock shopping spree. Yippee!

If we get in a war with North Korea, which will probably draw in China and some type of nuclear exchange, you can go on a stock shopping spree while I go to Costco and buy bulk everything that lasts for awhile.
Lol, I live in earthquake country and Costco is my usual grocery store, so we're fairly well covered in terms of supplies. I was mostly gently poking fun at the precision of DAA's prediction. 70%? Okay. I'm not going to shy away from stock shopping if a big drop happens.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on June 11, 2018, 06:59:33 AM
70%? Really? Is that a promise?  If it is, I'll be scrounging up all the cash I can and going on a stock shopping spree. Yippee!

If we get in a war with North Korea, which will probably draw in China and some type of nuclear exchange, you can go on a stock shopping spree while I go to Costco and buy bulk everything that lasts for awhile.
Lol, I live in earthquake country and Costco is my usual grocery store, so we're fairly well covered in terms of supplies. I was mostly gently poking fun at the precision of DAA's prediction. 70%? Okay. I'm not going to shy away from stock shopping if a big drop happens.

Ohhh nooo!  It's too late to buy beans!  Buy bullets!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on June 11, 2018, 11:52:07 AM
Don't just walk! Run !!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Melisande on July 09, 2018, 04:06:31 PM
Just did my semi-annual net worth calculation and we are now at $2,350,000, up $122,000 from the beginning of the year. Yay!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on July 09, 2018, 05:03:02 PM
Nice, so thats a 5.4% increase. But the S&P 500 is only up 3.2% (plus dividends).

So clearly you are invested in something that has paid a higher return.. Is a bunch of this home equity perhaps?

Care to share?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: 2Birds1Stone on July 09, 2018, 05:06:38 PM
Nice, so thats a 5.4% increase. But the S&amp;P 500 is only up 3.2% (plus dividends).

So clearly you are invested in something that has paid a higher return.. Is a bunch of this home equity perhaps?

Care to share?
Contributions?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Melisande on July 09, 2018, 05:57:54 PM
Nice, so thats a 5.4% increase. But the S&P 500 is only up 3.2% (plus dividends).

So clearly you are invested in something that has paid a higher return.. Is a bunch of this home equity perhaps?

Care to share?

About $30,000 is additional home equity. We also contributed about $25,000 from current income, so that makes only about $67,000 investment returns. We have $1,920,000 in investments, so that means about a 3.5% return. Not that much above the market.  We just have a lot of high risk/high reward index funds with TIAA & Vanguard.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on July 09, 2018, 11:44:32 PM
I've dropped out of the 2MM plus club again.  Down payment and closing costs on Florida retirement home sucked away cash.  Sucks to be in debt again, even though it's less than 10 percent of our net worth.  I don't like counting real estate as an asset.  Now on to rebuilding the cash kitty so FIRE can get back on schedule.   Retirement accounts are blossoming nicely however.   
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on July 10, 2018, 01:59:00 AM
I've dropped out of the 2MM plus club again.  Down payment and closing costs on Florida retirement home sucked away cash.  Sucks to be in debt again, even though it's less than 10 percent of our net worth.  I don't like counting real estate as an asset.  Now on to rebuilding the cash kitty so FIRE can get back on schedule.   Retirement accounts are blossoming nicely however.

Easy come, easy go
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on July 10, 2018, 11:21:11 AM
Just wrapped up our mid year check in, and we're at $3.7M. (This includes our house value). We started the year at $2.9ish, so it's a good uptick. Gains are coming from: additional 401K investment (we max in January from our bonuses), stock market, corporate stock vests (part of our overall compensation package) + quite a big swing in housing value.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on July 10, 2018, 11:36:45 AM
Nice job on the 3.7M..:)

I have not added ours up but looking at the S&P500 we should be over $2M Liquid and pension valuations have increased to about $525k.

House seems to be worth about $500k but thats a SWAG due to very few direct comps in the area.

So roughly $3M total. No savings growth as we have FIRED.

Seems kind of irrelevant though as we will barely crack a 1% WR this year.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Saving4Fire on July 31, 2018, 01:17:07 PM
I'm in the 1-2m club, however yesterday my wife received unexpectedly good news (not inheritance) and in the next few weeks we're going to be in the "and beyond" club.   I'm in a state of shock and I'm currently trying to reorient my life expectations.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on July 31, 2018, 01:26:18 PM
I'm in the 1-2m club, however yesterday my wife received unexpectedly good news (not inheritance) and in the next few weeks we're going to be in the "and beyond" club.   I'm in a state of shock and I'm currently trying to reorient my life expectations.

Wow - that's great news! How are you thinking of adjusting your plans given the news?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Saving4Fire on July 31, 2018, 02:03:17 PM
I'm in the 1-2m club, however yesterday my wife received unexpectedly good news (not inheritance) and in the next few weeks we're going to be in the "and beyond" club.   I'm in a state of shock and I'm currently trying to reorient my life expectations.

Wow - that's great news! How are you thinking of adjusting your plans given the news?

To be candid, I don't know and I'm still trying to process the change.  After this transaction completes we'll be worth around 3.5m.   We're dual income professionals with no kids in our early 40's, so we have a lot of options.

I'm sure this money will be in a trust for my wife, so technically if we ever divorce I wouldn't see any of it, which I'm fine with.   Regardless, this is a big change for me.  Most of our current net worth (1.75m) is from my super saver ways and higher compensation. Conversely, my wife is more of a spendypants by MMM standards (but way better than the average American).   I've never resented her spending and lower savings rate, however I planned on working longer to ensure she can retire comfortably too.   However, now that she has a large nest egg my decisions can be more selfish.

That said, I really like my job and I don't see myself leaving in the foreseeable future... but you never know.

It's also worth adding - her compensation is really starting to take off and she has no desire to retire, which I'm also fine with.   I'm more than happy to have her be the breadwinner of the family.  :)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on July 31, 2018, 08:56:37 PM
My progress is quite slow these days due to my House in Sydney dropping in value by around $170K over the past 12 months.... luckily that AUD and not USD I suppose.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on July 31, 2018, 09:12:45 PM
Still temporally out of the 2MM class.  Buying the house in Florida stripped us of cash for the downpayment.   We're gaining that ground back rapidly though.  Got an offer to sell our least valuable real estate, a non-rented rental.  That would get us well on our way and rebuild our cash.  I don't consider real estate as an asset, more a liability and money pit in my experience.   JL Collins has it right, rent a nice place and let the landlord fix the toilets.   I should have followed his advice.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on August 01, 2018, 01:41:17 AM
Still temporally out of the 2MM class.  Buying the house in Florida stripped us of cash for the downpayment.   We're gaining that ground back rapidly though.  Got an offer to sell our least valuable real estate, a non-rented rental.  That would get us well on our way and rebuild our cash.  I don't consider real estate as an asset, more a liability and money pit in my experience.   JL Collins has it right, rent a nice place and let the landlord fix the toilets.   I should have followed his advice.

In my case, I have made a good portion of my NW from property capital gains. But, now I have a stash, my appetite for further property speculation is pretty much zero. Slowly rebalancing to mostly stocks.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: bigchrisb on August 01, 2018, 01:44:59 AM
I've ticked up to $3.2m, mostly from stock market appreciation (Australian shares).  I'm up $267k since leaving my main job at the start of October last year, so nice to know I've dodged at least the first year of sequence of returns risk.   Income from investments (less interest) look like $126k this year, with spending well below that.  Staying in the $3m bracket really depends on what the markets choose to do.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on August 01, 2018, 02:48:39 AM
Still temporally out of the 2MM class.  Buying the house in Florida stripped us of cash for the downpayment.   We're gaining that ground back rapidly though.  Got an offer to sell our least valuable real estate, a non-rented rental.  That would get us well on our way and rebuild our cash.  I don't consider real estate as an asset, more a liability and money pit in my experience.   JL Collins has it right, rent a nice place and let the landlord fix the toilets.   I should have followed his advice.

In my case, I have made a good portion of my NW from property capital gains. But, now I have a stash, my appetite for further property speculation is pretty much zero. Slowly rebalancing to mostly stocks.

Some can work real estate to their advantage.  I just seem to lack the skill. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on August 01, 2018, 07:42:08 AM
Still temporally out of the 2MM class.  Buying the house in Florida stripped us of cash for the downpayment.   We're gaining that ground back rapidly though.  Got an offer to sell our least valuable real estate, a non-rented rental.  That would get us well on our way and rebuild our cash.  I don't consider real estate as an asset, more a liability and money pit in my experience.   JL Collins has it right, rent a nice place and let the landlord fix the toilets.   I should have followed his advice.

In my case, I have made a good portion of my NW from property capital gains. But, now I have a stash, my appetite for further property speculation is pretty much zero. Slowly rebalancing to mostly stocks.

Funny how that happens. Our house (complete with rentals) has gradually reduced from 100% of our net worth to about 16%.

At one time I was "landlord of the year".. Now I secretly hope my renters burn the rental trailer house to the ground and leave!

Maybe then I could sell our property and then lease it back from the new owner?...:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on August 01, 2018, 08:12:38 AM
Still temporally out of the 2MM class.  Buying the house in Florida stripped us of cash for the downpayment.   We're gaining that ground back rapidly though.  Got an offer to sell our least valuable real estate, a non-rented rental.  That would get us well on our way and rebuild our cash.  I don't consider real estate as an asset, more a liability and money pit in my experience.   JL Collins has it right, rent a nice place and let the landlord fix the toilets.   I should have followed his advice.

In my case, I have made a good portion of my NW from property capital gains. But, now I have a stash, my appetite for further property speculation is pretty much zero. Slowly rebalancing to mostly stocks.

Some can work real estate to their advantage.  I just seem to lack the skill.
Time heals all wounds. It also creates a lot of real estate "success" stories.

In many cases, the investor would have done better in equities, but the threat of losing their home forces people to make mortgage payments. Without that incentive, humans are far less likely to fill their investment accounts with similar vigor.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on August 01, 2018, 11:34:41 AM
Residential property has averaged 10.2% pa returns in Australia over the past 20 years (source: Russell Investments Long aterm Investing Report 2018). And with generous tax incentives adding fuel to the fire itís been an easy way to accumulate wealth.

But, of course such gains for an asset that provides no more and no less than it did 20 years ago must come to an end, and in fact globally there is a retreat in residential real estate prices in most major cities. The party is over, banks and governments have realised the dangers of the entire population being ridiculously leveraged, and speculator money is moving elsewhere. Unlike stocks there is a limit to what houses are worth, as ultimately housing needs to be able to be afforded by the local population.

I know I should sell my Sydney house, prices will certainly retreat further, but there is this damn emotional attachment which is stopping us pull the trigger for the time being.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on August 01, 2018, 02:33:20 PM
10.2% for 20 years?..Damn!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on August 01, 2018, 08:39:36 PM
10.2% for 20 years?..Damn!

Yeah, if only I had a crystal ball in my early 20s

Meanwhile Australian shares would have given you 8.8%pa
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on August 01, 2018, 08:46:44 PM
10.2% for 20 years?..Damn!

Yeah, if only I had a crystal ball in my early 20s

Meanwhile Australian shares would have given you 8.8%pa

Holy crap!  How do young people ever save enough to buy a house in a market like that. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on August 01, 2018, 09:35:19 PM
Generally they canít. Parents, who own homes, are often footing the deposit. Young people are now far more likely to rent and invest in stocks than previous generations.

The whole thing is really unhealthy and totally unsustainable.

But as I said, the govt has realized a bit late that high house prices is not a good thing and has taken some measures to make housing investment less attractive to foreign investors, and had increased lending standards to reduce the capacity of locals to borrow so much. More still needs to be done, and will be with time I am sure. But unwinding the bubble needs to be done very slowly to avoid huge negative impacts on the economy.

If the last 20 years had 10.2% growth pa, I would expect the next 10 years to have less than 2% growth pa.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on August 01, 2018, 10:36:58 PM
or -2%
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on August 02, 2018, 06:54:27 AM
I think Australia is in the unusual situation of not having had a recession in like 20 years or more.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on August 02, 2018, 11:34:47 AM
or -2%

Very possible.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on August 02, 2018, 11:36:42 AM
I think Australia is in the unusual situation of not having had a recession in like 20 years or more.

Technically this is correct, although it does seem there was a small amount of cooking the books to keep this pretty impressive fact alive.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: bigchrisb on August 02, 2018, 02:10:49 PM
I think Australia is in the unusual situation of not having had a recession in like 20 years or more.
Not since 1991 on official stats.  Sydney real estate is particularly warped. Over 80 suburbs have median prices above $2m, there as 5 years ago that list was 5 rich enclaves.  There are plenty of Sydneysiders that would be in the $2m club, based only on buying their house 20 years ago. Combined with construction being 9% of Australian employment, when it unwinds my opinion is that it will get ugly. I'll be happy holding my home, and a good chunk of international index funds.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on August 04, 2018, 12:11:23 PM
Well as of the market close Friday our NW has hit a new high.. Even with with a small drawdown (FIRED).

This includes savings plus pension valuations.. Our savings are still slightly under the peak in January
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: JoJoP on August 07, 2018, 06:41:47 PM
Well as of the market close Friday our NW has hit a new high.. Even with with a small drawdown (FIRED).

This includes savings plus pension valuations.. Our savings are still slightly under the peak in January

YAY!  That's great news Exflyboy!  Did you FIRE?  How's life treating ya now?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on August 07, 2018, 07:14:58 PM
Well as of the market close Friday our NW has hit a new high.. Even with with a small drawdown (FIRED).

This includes savings plus pension valuations.. Our savings are still slightly under the peak in January

YAY!  That's great news Exflyboy!  Did you FIRE?  How's life treating ya now?

I did I have not done any paid work for over 2 years now. Life is great although I have been getting a bit lazy mainly because its so hot.

I'm thinking I'm at the point where not having a job feels normal...:)

Maybe I'll do a little paid work at some point, or maybe not!

Life is really pretty freaking awesome all in all..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on August 08, 2018, 05:01:51 AM
A few paychecks, dividends and upticks in the market has us back over 2MM again.  The FIRE goal of 2.5MM will hopefully develop by August 2020.  August 2020 will be here quickly.   It took me almost six months to find a house for retirement and close on the loan.  That time flew by.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on August 08, 2018, 12:04:09 PM
A few paychecks, dividends and upticks in the market has us back over 2MM again.  The FIRE goal of 2.5MM will hopefully develop by August 2020.  August 2020 will be here quickly.   It took me almost six months to find a house for retirement and close on the loan.  That time flew by.

There you go.. I knew you had to be close..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: MiserlyMiser on August 22, 2018, 04:00:32 PM
Hi, all!  Iím in the club. I canít tell anyone IRL, and it feels weird to say it even here. Iím well past what I thought was my FIRE number, so Iím trying to get used to the idea of retiring, and also to practice not panicking at market fluctuations (Iím mainly invested in equities, although Iíve been diversifying more lately). 
It feels like Iíve been stalled out at the same NW for a while, but I think it might just be that as my NW has grown, my contributions have become less important compared to investment growth, so the rate of growth has slowed down, while in absolute terms Iím still plugging along as before.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on August 23, 2018, 12:49:07 AM
Hi, all!  Iím in the club. I canít tell anyone IRL, and it feels weird to say it even here. Iím well past what I thought was my FIRE number, so Iím trying to get used to the idea of retiring, and also to practice not panicking at market fluctuations (Iím mainly invested in equities, although Iíve been diversifying more lately). 
It feels like Iíve been stalled out at the same NW for a while, but I think it might just be that as my NW has grown, my contributions have become less important compared to investment growth, so the rate of growth has slowed down, while in absolute terms Iím still plugging along as before.

Welcome to the 2 comma and beyond club.  If you are like me, that second million was almost too easy.   Now what you save has less impact on growth.  The wealth has become self replicating.   A little over a month ago we put a down payment on a second home.   That knocked down our accounts a bit.  We've almost recovered that money in a little over a month.  Sometimes I think this can't be legal.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: MiserlyMiser on August 23, 2018, 09:25:07 AM
Hi, all!  I’m in the club. I can’t tell anyone IRL, and it feels weird to say it even here. I’m well past what I thought was my FIRE number, so I’m trying to get used to the idea of retiring, and also to practice not panicking at market fluctuations (I’m mainly invested in equities, although I’ve been diversifying more lately). 
It feels like I’ve been stalled out at the same NW for a while, but I think it might just be that as my NW has grown, my contributions have become less important compared to investment growth, so the rate of growth has slowed down, while in absolute terms I’m still plugging along as before.

Welcome to the 2 comma and beyond club.  If you are like me, that second million was almost too easy.   Now what you save has less impact on growth.  The wealth has become self replicating.   A little over a month ago we put a down payment on a second home.   That knocked down our accounts a bit.  We've almost recovered that money in a little over a month.  Sometimes I think this can't be legal.

I tend to notice the negative more, and it feels so absurd to see my NW take a $50k+ hit in a single day (rare, but it happens)—that’s more than some of my friends/family make in a year!!!!  Somehow that makes more of an impact than when my NW is back to where it was 2 days later.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on August 23, 2018, 04:21:50 PM
It does feel like the good times are coming to a close. I rebalanced the portfolio today as stock ETFs hit 84% of the total..

We are now running 80/20 (stock/bond) ignoring the pensions. If the market tanks I'll happily roll to 90/10..:)

Nobody really knows of course.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on August 24, 2018, 12:11:02 PM
And of course I rebalanced at exactly the wrong time.. Well not really..:)

I was just thinking that if the market holds close to its current numbers that most of the people on this forum will be the richest they have ever been!

Thats pretty cool!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on August 24, 2018, 05:07:59 PM
And of course I rebalanced at exactly the wrong time.. Well not really..:)

I was just thinking that if the market holds close to its current numbers that most of the people on this forum will be the richest they have ever been!

Thats pretty cool!
Aw hell, EFB, every day I'm the richest I've ever been, no matter what the stock market does.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on August 25, 2018, 03:01:54 AM
And of course I rebalanced at exactly the wrong time.. Well not really..:)

I was just thinking that if the market holds close to its current numbers that most of the people on this forum will be the richest they have ever been!

Thats pretty cool!
Aw hell, EFB, every day I'm the richest I've ever been, no matter what the stock market does.

Well said Dicey.   

By the way we are at a new high point as of today. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on August 26, 2018, 11:14:05 PM
Rich as well as wealthy..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: PhrugalPhan on August 27, 2018, 04:53:15 PM
Hi, all!  Iím in the club. I canít tell anyone IRL, and it feels weird to say it even here. Iím well past what I thought was my FIRE number, so Iím trying to get used to the idea of retiring, and also to practice not panicking at market fluctuations (Iím mainly invested in equities, although Iíve been diversifying more lately). 
It feels like Iíve been stalled out at the same NW for a while, but I think it might just be that as my NW has grown, my contributions have become less important compared to investment growth, so the rate of growth has slowed down, while in absolute terms Iím still plugging along as before.

Welcome to the 2 comma and beyond club.  If you are like me, that second million was almost too easy.   Now what you save has less impact on growth.  The wealth has become self replicating.   A little over a month ago we put a down payment on a second home.   That knocked down our accounts a bit.  We've almost recovered that money in a little over a month.  Sometimes I think this can't be legal.
To make it to this group I had to include my GF's TSP numbers and our pensions.  Just today if I add in all my financial numbers (add in $35k in savings), my total is $955k, her's is up to $1,058k.  We're over $2 Mil!!!.  And I don't have to include my house (paid off), nor either of our pensions ($30k/yr for her starting this January - I'm vested at $31k/yr starting in 4 years).  And she finally realizes our finances will be fine (she was STILL worrying???).  We need to work on merging our households this winter and fix up my house but having money will make things happen.

And beyond that, I just visited my mother this weekend.  She's self employed at 72, still very active, travelling to Europe yearly, and now I find she has much more money than I ever realized (over $600k).   And she is just finishing upgrading the last room in her house.  So I'm not worrying about her finances either.

But yeah, back to the Miser's point, it still doesn't feel like we are rich, but compared to an extreme percentage we are.  Crazy....
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: JoJoP on August 27, 2018, 05:07:50 PM
Hi, all!  Iím in the club. I canít tell anyone IRL, and it feels weird to say it even here.


Welcome, Miserly!
I felt that way at first, but, with practice, I own it now.  (WHOOOO HOOOO!) 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on August 28, 2018, 12:51:13 AM
Hi, all!  Iím in the club. I canít tell anyone IRL, and it feels weird to say it even here. Iím well past what I thought was my FIRE number, so Iím trying to get used to the idea of retiring, and also to practice not panicking at market fluctuations (Iím mainly invested in equities, although Iíve been diversifying more lately). 
It feels like Iíve been stalled out at the same NW for a while, but I think it might just be that as my NW has grown, my contributions have become less important compared to investment growth, so the rate of growth has slowed down, while in absolute terms Iím still plugging along as before.

Welcome to the 2 comma and beyond club.  If you are like me, that second million was almost too easy.   Now what you save has less impact on growth.  The wealth has become self replicating.   A little over a month ago we put a down payment on a second home.   That knocked down our accounts a bit.  We've almost recovered that money in a little over a month.  Sometimes I think this can't be legal.
To make it to this group I had to include my GF's TSP numbers and our pensions.  Just today if I add in all my financial numbers (add in $35k in savings), my total is $955k, her's is up to $1,058k.  We're over $2 Mil!!!.  And I don't have to include my house (paid off), nor either of our pensions ($30k/yr for her starting this January - I'm vested at $31k/yr starting in 4 years).  And she finally realizes our finances will be fine (she was STILL worrying???).  We need to work on merging our households this winter and fix up my house but having money will make things happen.

And beyond that, I just visited my mother this weekend.  She's self employed at 72, still very active, travelling to Europe yearly, and now I find she has much more money than I ever realized (over $600k).   And she is just finishing upgrading the last room in her house.  So I'm not worrying about her finances either.

But yeah, back to the Miser's point, it still doesn't feel like we are rich, but compared to an extreme percentage we are.  Crazy....

Very well done.  You're in great shape.  Enjoy the freedom.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on September 05, 2018, 10:59:27 AM
Just wrapped up our mid year check in, and we're at $3.7M. (This includes our house value). We started the year at $2.9ish, so it's a good uptick. Gains are coming from: additional 401K investment (we max in January from our bonuses), stock market, corporate stock vests (part of our overall compensation package) + quite a big swing in housing value.

We are closing in on $4M. Note that we have a ton of equity tied up into a very expensive housing market (Bay Area), as well as employee stock options. So, in my mind, it's not "real", but I'll keep tracking it. :-)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on September 05, 2018, 02:52:11 PM
Iíve just reached $1.7 million in liquid assets and have about another $390k in home equity
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on September 05, 2018, 04:08:43 PM
Iíve just reached $1.7 million in liquid assets and have about another $390k in home equity

Cool You're about $0.5M ahead of where I was at your tender age.. Back in 2013.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on September 05, 2018, 06:43:20 PM
Ha. Well I wish I had your mechanical skills in fixing things around the home.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on September 05, 2018, 06:54:40 PM
Terminal cheapness is a great motivator to learn..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on September 14, 2018, 09:19:17 AM
Terminal cheapness is a great motivator to learn..:)
How about "Perpetual Frugality"? It sounds better and possibly like you will live longer.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on September 20, 2018, 09:25:11 AM
I've taken a temporary (hopefully) hiatus from Mustacianism.  Setting up the Florida house has been rather expensive.  I'm happy we chose to make the home purchase while still employed to help absorb the costs.   We made the purchase in July and so far we've made three trips over from Louisiana to get things done.   One thing I've noticed since turning 50 this summer is I can't work hard all day and drive 600 miles with no sleep.  Ultimately we will FIRE and sell the Louisiana house.  That will cut down on lots of the expense and effort we're fighting right now. 
We do love our new home in Florida and can't wait to be there permanently.  Working hard in the yard, cleaning or painting is rewarded with a refreshing dip in the pool with an adult beverage.  We bought the 30 year old, 4,100 square foot home on an acre lot for $237,000, in a golf and country club community.  The HOA is only a $100 a year because amenities are optional.   We may join the social club and gym when we move.  It's about the cost of the YMCA from what we've heard.  I don't golf.  We run, bike and do water sports.  Tennis is included with the gym I think.  We finally have furniture in one bedroom.   We'd been sleeping on a mattress on the floor.  Our final night there last week we slept in a bed!   It was a Craigslist purchase.  It's a $3000 set we bought with a few wear marks for $850.   Also $30 for a U-haul trailer we rented for behind our truck.  We managed to take a day off and tube the beautiful Rainbow River.  Can't wait to enjoy the natural playground that the Nature Coast provides.  It's still possible we will FIRE in 2019 but 2020 looks more likely.  We've depleted a lot of our cash reserves even though our retirement accounts have been very powerful lately.  Right now it's less stressful working a bit longer than adding stress about cash flow.  That's all I've got to report for now.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on September 20, 2018, 10:02:46 AM
Nothing wrong with taking breaks from Mustachianism in my book.  I converted a 600k 401k from an old employer into money market funds instead of S&&P500 index.  Was it a good idea - of course not in a Mustachian sense, but it's been nothing but win-win for me personally.  Let's just say the market goes up 10% this year, that 60k opportunity cost sounds pretty painful.  But it also means I gained over 200k in my remaining portfolio, which is still over 2x my projected ER spending!  And I'm much more relaxed while I do other big things in my life and pretty much ignore the market.  If the market ends up down 10% (or 50%), I'll be much more upset having lost so much (on paper), but at least I'll have that 600k to play with.  Putting it back in the market while it is falling will suck, I know that from 2008, but it gives me peace of mind not to worry about the market this year until I get more time to figure out what I really want.  More passive income and net worth really isn't doing much for me if it's not being used to provide this peace of mind.  So yeah, I guess I'm on hiatus from being an uber-efficient, cold and calculated Mustachian for the rest of this year.  Cheers!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on September 22, 2018, 05:02:35 PM
I call bullshit in the supposed "break". You're doing your own moving, buying used furniture on CL and planning for your post-FIRE future. What could be more mustachian than that? It's not about never spending money, it's about spending in line with your carefully evaluated values. You're killing it, @Bateaux!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on September 23, 2018, 04:51:28 AM
^^^^ this^^^^..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on September 23, 2018, 09:22:28 PM
Thanks for the encouragement guys.  The big beautiful Florida home will likely become the biggest tug to FIRE.   We love it there so much already.  With Fall soon providing refreshing cooler weather the desire will be even stronger.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on September 24, 2018, 08:39:39 AM
It sounds like a beautiful place Bateaux.  Would love to see some pictures of the area if you want to post them.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on September 24, 2018, 11:56:05 AM
I call bullshit in the supposed "break". You're doing your own moving, buying used furniture on CL and planning for your post-FIRE future. What could be more mustachian than that? It's not about never spending money, it's about spending in line with your carefully evaluated values. You're killing it, @Bateaux!

Bullshit or humble brag?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on September 24, 2018, 03:33:41 PM
I call bullshit in the supposed "break". You're doing your own moving, buying used furniture on CL and planning for your post-FIRE future. What could be more mustachian than that? It's not about never spending money, it's about spending in line with your carefully evaluated values. You're killing it, @Bateaux!

Bullshit or humble brag?
1. I've never gotten that impression from Bateaux.
2. This is a safe place. It's allowed, nay encouraged.
3. See #1.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on September 24, 2018, 06:34:09 PM
I call bullshit in the supposed "break". You're doing your own moving, buying used furniture on CL and planning for your post-FIRE future. What could be more mustachian than that? It's not about never spending money, it's about spending in line with your carefully evaluated values. You're killing it, @Bateaux!

Bullshit or humble brag?
1. I've never gotten that impression from Bateaux.
2. This is a safe place. It's allowed, nay encouraged.
3. See #1.

Just an update guys.   I do welcome comments, even criticism.   If it comes from those that scrapped their own way to this thread, It's worth it.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on September 24, 2018, 08:16:16 PM
I call bullshit in the supposed "break". You're doing your own moving, buying used furniture on CL and planning for your post-FIRE future. What could be more mustachian than that? It's not about never spending money, it's about spending in line with your carefully evaluated values. You're killing it, @Bateaux!

Bullshit or humble brag?
1. I've never gotten that impression from Bateaux.
2. This is a safe place. It's allowed, nay encouraged.
3. See #1.

Just an update guys.   I do welcome comments, even criticism.   If it comes from those that scrapped their own way to this thread, It's worth it.
If it had seemed constructive or even tongue in cheek, I would have let it pass...

I adore how civil this place is and aim to help keep it that way. Except, of course, if someone Is in dire need of a face punch, but I haven't thrown many of those lately.

I squeaked over the $100k earning line just once in my career and hit FI as a single person, so I'm definitely a scrapper, but mostly in the sense of advocating for my own financial freedom, not as in picking on others.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on September 24, 2018, 09:00:24 PM
I squeaked over the $100k earning line just once in my career and hit FI as a single person, so I'm definitely a scrapper, but mostly in the sense of advocating for my own financial freedom, not as in picking on others.

That's my story too.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on September 24, 2018, 09:06:38 PM
I call bullshit in the supposed "break". You're doing your own moving, buying used furniture on CL and planning for your post-FIRE future. What could be more mustachian than that? It's not about never spending money, it's about spending in line with your carefully evaluated values. You're killing it, @Bateaux!

Bullshit or humble brag?
1. I've never gotten that impression from Bateaux.
2. This is a safe place. It's allowed, nay encouraged.
3. See #1.

Just an update guys.   I do welcome comments, even criticism.   If it comes from those that scrapped their own way to this thread, It's worth it.
If it had seemed constructive or even tongue in cheek, I would have let it pass...

I adore how civil this place is and aim to help keep it that way. Except, of course, if someone Is in dire need of a face punch, but I haven't thrown many of those lately.

I squeaked over the $100k earning line just once in my career and hit FI as a single person, so I'm definitely a scrapper, but mostly in the sense of advocating for my own financial freedom, not as in picking on others.

Guys, it was certainly meant tongue in cheek. Apologies if it came across differently

I was just laughing because here was a guy with more than $2M saying he wasnít moustachian when he had spent just $200K on a place and was buying 2nd hand furniture. I was feeling he was bragging because he was spending so little compared to my present situation where I have a clownishly expensive inner city house.

I look forward to when I can brag that I am getting free of the rat race to a cheaper place!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on September 24, 2018, 09:26:56 PM
I call bullshit in the supposed "break". You're doing your own moving, buying used furniture on CL and planning for your post-FIRE future. What could be more mustachian than that? It's not about never spending money, it's about spending in line with your carefully evaluated values. You're killing it, @Bateaux!

Bullshit or humble brag?
1. I've never gotten that impression from Bateaux.
2. This is a safe place. It's allowed, nay encouraged.
3. See #1.

Just an update guys.   I do welcome comments, even criticism.   If it comes from those that scrapped their own way to this thread, It's worth it.
If it had seemed constructive or even tongue in cheek, I would have let it pass...

I adore how civil this place is and aim to help keep it that way. Except, of course, if someone Is in dire need of a face punch, but I haven't thrown many of those lately.

I squeaked over the $100k earning line just once in my career and hit FI as a single person, so I'm definitely a scrapper, but mostly in the sense of advocating for my own financial freedom, not as in picking on others.

Guys, it was certainly meant tongue in cheek. Apologies if it came across differently

I was just laughing because here was a guy with more than $2M saying he wasnít moustachian when he had spent just $200K on a place and was buying 2nd hand furniture. I was feeling he was bragging because he was spending so little compared to my present situation where I have a clownishly expensive inner city house.

I look forward to when I can brag that I am getting free of the rat race to a cheaper place!

It's all good Itchy.  I love hearing from all of you.   I was trying to do more of a confession than a brag.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on September 24, 2018, 10:36:03 PM
I call bullshit in the supposed "break". You're doing your own moving, buying used furniture on CL and planning for your post-FIRE future. What could be more mustachian than that? It's not about never spending money, it's about spending in line with your carefully evaluated values. You're killing it, @Bateaux!

Bullshit or humble brag?
1. I've never gotten that impression from Bateaux.
2. This is a safe place. It's allowed, nay encouraged.
3. See #1.

Just an update guys.   I do welcome comments, even criticism.   If it comes from those that scrapped their own way to this thread, It's worth it.
If it had seemed constructive or even tongue in cheek, I would have let it pass...

I adore how civil this place is and aim to help keep it that way. Except, of course, if someone Is in dire need of a face punch, but I haven't thrown many of those lately.

I squeaked over the $100k earning line just once in my career and hit FI as a single person, so I'm definitely a scrapper, but mostly in the sense of advocating for my own financial freedom, not as in picking on others.

Guys, it was certainly meant tongue in cheek. Apologies if it came across differently

I was just laughing because here was a guy with more than $2M saying he wasnít moustachian when he had spent just $200K on a place and was buying 2nd hand furniture. I was feeling he was bragging because he was spending so little compared to my present situation where I have a clownishly expensive inner city house.

I look forward to when I can brag that I am getting free of the rat race to a cheaper place!

It's all good Itchy.  I love hearing from all of you.   I was trying to do more of a confession than a brag.
You are hereby absolved, by the power that has been vested in me. That's MMM power, and it is mighty strong. Strong like walrus, yuk-yuk.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: wannabe-stache on September 25, 2018, 11:50:44 AM
Thanks for the encouragement guys.  The big beautiful Florida home will likely become the biggest tug to FIRE.   We love it there so much already.  With Fall soon providing refreshing cooler weather the desire will be even stronger.

don't hold your breath...not sure where in FL you are but here in miami it's still so fu$#ing hot.

i ran at 5:30 this am, it was 81 degrees, humid and felt like 90.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on September 25, 2018, 02:32:10 PM
Thanks for the encouragement guys.  The big beautiful Florida home will likely become the biggest tug to FIRE.   We love it there so much already.  With Fall soon providing refreshing cooler weather the desire will be even stronger.

don't hold your breath...not sure where in FL you are but here in miami it's still so fu$#ing hot.

i ran at 5:30 this am, it was 81 degrees, humid and felt like 90.

It's Citrus County.  About an hour north of Tampa.  It's devils butthole hot at least half the year.  Same here in gulf coastal Louisiana.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on October 03, 2018, 12:17:03 PM
Well damn I have never had more money than I do right now.. But I am on holiday so I don't trust the security of the WIFI connection to check what we are actually worth..

I think This 6 week European tour has been more than paid for by todays moves..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: bigchrisb on October 05, 2018, 05:19:11 AM
Well damn I have never had more money than I do right now.. But I am on holiday so I don't trust the security of the WIFI connection to check what we are actually worth..

I think This 6 week European tour has been more than paid for by todays moves..:)

I feel much the same. Just did a bucket list diving trip to scapa flow, and saw more cash roll in as dividends than I spent while there. Helps settle down the "fear of not enough" psychology.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on October 05, 2018, 03:33:45 PM
Clearly I spoke too soon and now I have no idea how to pay for this 6 week EU vacation... kidding..;)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on October 06, 2018, 02:12:04 AM
Just checked Mint.  Lost about 25K on paper.   Still over 2M invested as of now.  Wouldn't take much more to drop kick me back to sub 2M right now.   
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on October 06, 2018, 04:44:11 AM
Iíve been lucky that $AUD drop is propping up my stash, which I measure in AUD. I have quite a bit invested in non-AUD investments. And, as I am currently paid in USD I have had a nice pay rise (in AUD) over the course of this year.

Declining property prices in Sydney are starting to cause me a little concern as I approach my FIRE date though..... but we keep having the sell/ hold discussion and keep landing on the hold side.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on October 12, 2018, 04:10:46 AM
-$75K for the week.

My emerging markets investments are showing a loss of 17% for 2018

My house in Sydney has dropped in value by $100k this year.

I am sitting on $50K cash and am thinking I might hold onto that cash and add to it so as to head into FIRE with a bigger cash stash (term deposits) than I was previously contemplating just so I donít need to sell anything for a few years. My total stash looks like it will be a bit lower than I was targeting as ďmy numberĒ.

FIRE date is June next year.

It will be nice not to have to worry about market gyrations for the first few years post FIRE.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on October 12, 2018, 05:51:00 AM
Dipping well below the 2M invested threshold now.  Currently about 1.94M which is a 100K plus drop from the recent high.  I'm very happy to be still working.  I've set 2M invested as the floor of the action level.   During which times all unnecessary spending will be cut and employment will be sought.  I have relatives who retired prior to the  great recession.  Once the recession hit they waited too late to curb spending and too late to seek additional employment.   They thought they had plenty invested prior to the drop.  Now they have to work lesser paying jobs in their 70s.  They unfortunately didn't have the knowledge and hindsight we have today.  Many never dreamed how deep the losses would be. 
Seeing 100K evaporate so quickly was an eye opener for me.   I'm going to buy more security with time working. 
I just don't ever want to be poor again.  I'm not wasting my life working now for a large amount of money, so much as I did when poor and working for almost nothing.   I'm filled with regret for the ignorance of my youth. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on October 12, 2018, 08:01:04 AM
I hear you Bateaux

I canít tell you how many times I have had the should we or shouldnít we talk with my DW.

Her family all live really old, so she could well have 60 years ahead of her post FIRE. I wouldnít want for her to be struggling financially in the 2nd half of those years after I am gone (no one in my family lives long).

I am still committed to FIREing next year, but I canít say that I am 100% sure it is the right decision.

But I am so sick of the indecisiveness so for my DWís sanity I have had to commit to a decision and stop flip flopping..... or at least flip flopping less frequently 😝

DW plans to continue working maybe 3-6 months each year, so this gives us a little added security.

But, 1 year of me working full time would prob give the same financial outcome as DW working 15 years at 3 months a year. This makes the decision (re my obligation to her financial security in old age) a difficult one. I can make the difference. Of course there can be no guarantees, but the bigger the stash, the more the certainty.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: MiserlyMiser on October 12, 2018, 08:25:29 AM
I was on my way here to complain that my investments have dropped $200k over the past few weeks and see that others have posted on the same topic.  I'm still working, and I'm trying to see this as practice for keeping my cool when I see large market fluctuations once I've retired.  To make myself feel better, I tallied up my spending during September, and I'm still comfortably within a 3% withdrawal rate, even with my smaller portfolio.  It still doesn't feel good to see such a drop, though :(
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: onlykelsey on October 12, 2018, 08:40:02 AM
I don't belong here but I've been binge reading so I'm posting to follow.  Maybe I'll see you in the back half of my 30s.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: 2Birds1Stone on October 12, 2018, 11:50:39 AM
The US stock market is only down ~7% from average peak.......hardly a correction yet.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on October 12, 2018, 02:07:01 PM
consider this a good time to buy if you have some dry powder
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on October 12, 2018, 09:34:00 PM
I don't belong here but I've been binge reading so I'm posting to follow.  Maybe I'll see you in the back half of my 30s.

Certainly you belong. We don't check bank accounts at the door.    Come back anytime.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on October 12, 2018, 09:36:52 PM
The US stock market is only down ~7% from average peak.......hardly a correction yet.

I'm just being a little whiney bitch.  Put it in bread loaves.   I had 20 loaves of bread.   I lost one loaf.  I still have 19 loaves of bread and an oven.  More loaves coming.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on October 12, 2018, 10:30:58 PM
The US stock market is only down ~7% from average peak.......hardly a correction yet.

I'm just being a little whiney bitch.  Put it in bread loaves.   I had 20 loaves of bread.   I lost one loaf.  I still have 19 loaves of bread and an oven.  More loaves coming.
Bateaux, I love this!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on October 13, 2018, 05:11:33 AM
The US stock market is only down ~7% from average peak.......hardly a correction yet.

I'm just being a little whiney bitch.  Put it in bread loaves.   I had 20 loaves of bread.   I lost one loaf.  I still have 19 loaves of bread and an oven.  More loaves coming.
Bateaux, I love this!

😂
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on October 13, 2018, 06:25:12 AM
That post was after about four ounces of tequila. 

;)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on October 13, 2018, 08:34:38 AM
That post was after about four ounces of tequila. 

;)

Pretty inspired for "drunk posting".. The all important oven..:)