The Money Mustache Community

General Discussion => Throw Down the Gauntlet => Topic started by: Car Jack on February 15, 2017, 07:54:42 AM

Title: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on February 15, 2017, 07:54:42 AM
I do understand that many here feel that once we hit a huge number like $2M, we *MUST* declare FI and retire.  I'm not there and have an age retirement plan rather than a number and know that DW will feel better, the bigger that number is on the spreadsheet showing total invested assets.  Since my big "2" seems like it's going to stick (RSUs vested today, ESPP the first of March and $10k sitting in a Citi account to get that $400 bonus releases mid March), I think the next goal is the next big number, and the number of the counting shall be....3.

As with the "2" thread, I'm counting investable assets.  Not house, not rental property, not cars, not silver coins.  Too easy to cheat with stuff that needs to be valued, in my humble opinion.

I've seen others note that the first $M is hard, the second easier and the 3rd, 4th etc progressively easier.  I guess we'll see and since I plan to retire about 2 years from now, we'll see how that works when the traditional big income (well.....100k ish engineer's salary) stops and I take odd jobs at hardware stores or driving for Uber or plowing snow from business parking lots for fun.

I'm a recent Bogle follower and only looked at my finances in the last 5 years.  Someone mentioned that people should know the expense ratios of all of their investments.  That made sense to me.  It also dawned on me that I didn't even know what all of my investment accounts were.  A spreadsheet was started, ERs were filled in and comparisons between Contrafund and Total Market Index were performed.  Once convinced that index funds perform relatively equally to actively managed ones, everything was switched over to Index.  Conglomeration was done, moving tiny, old 401k's, 403b's, selling wholevariablewhoknows policies, maxing tax advantaged space and opening a taxable account to put the excess.  All the while, my older son hit college and FAFSA laughed in my face for aid but my mom and DWs dad have been generous, directly paying part of the tuition bill every semester.  Son #2 hit a private high school after his public one totally failed him.  Not a hoidy toidy $70k high school.....$8500 all in a year.  As an aid, I sold off my toy car....a Lotus Elise and replaced it with a car my son could drive to his summer job and use in college....an 04 Outback (45k miles!) bought from the father in-law who bought it new. 

So the plan going forward.  Stay the course.  As the money becomes available, invest more in taxable (Schwab ETFs) and keep the cars as long as possible.  I'm a car guy with a track history, but haven't seen the track from inside a racecar in maybe 7 years (I instructed for a dozen years before this).  So not having a racecar and all that goes with it for expenses has reduced expenses.  We instead visit Lime Rock a few times in the summer and watch the pros do it out there.  I do a bit of credit card and bank account churning for bonuses and have signed up with the new tradeline company to try to cash in on that.....<anxiously awaiting>.  My "life" spreadsheet is broken down by year and events expected and I fill in reality as it happens. 

So I am interested in stories from others and their plans going forward.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: bigchrisb on February 20, 2017, 04:12:40 PM
Sounds like you are well on your way!  Out of curiosity, do you have a home mortgage and own your own home?  I found it psychologically necessary to track home equity while I was paying down the home, as otherwise I had a propensity to over-leverage myself.  Now that I've fully offset the debt, I'm more agnostic about it.  Depending on approaches, I belong either in the race to $2m or the race to $3m, as net worth including residential property is about $2.75m, while net worth of just liquid stocks, bonds and cash is more like $1.75. 

Sounds like you are on auto-pilot and will cruise over your target given a bit of time.

For me, I think I'm about to see a slowdown in the accumulation rate - taking a sabbatical/trial FIRE while my wife does an overseas posting, and thinking about throwing some kids into the mix.  I'm expecting the next million target to take a few years, and be more in the hands of the markets than determined by my earned income.

 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on February 21, 2017, 06:38:57 AM
I paid off my house about 15 years ago.  Back then, I was an overly cautious investor, having bought company stock during the '87 selloff.  So paying off debt and the mortgage was the only ways I invested.

There's nothing wrong with tracking net worth and using that number for goals to attain.  I constantly change my goals once one is reached.  I had the $2M goal for quite a while for investments only.  Then it was to hit $1M within just my rollover IRA (not quite there).  When I hit that, I'll set some new, short term, attainable, arbitrary goal.  I've actually got one small goal in my Vanguard account to get back to zero.  It's been in developed international for about 2 years and is still under water.  I'm $2900 from getting to zero on a $250k account.

I still sweat the small stuff.  From the tradeline thread, I read about low balance forgiveness and tried it on several of my cards.  $0.98 forgiven on Barclays and $1.96 forgiven on discover.  Sounds like mouse nuts but free money is free money.  I showed my wife the Discover statement which also gave me $0.10 in rewards because I spent that $1.96 on gas, which is a 5% category this quarter.  And yah.....I pick up pennies on the sidewalk.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: TheAnonOne on February 24, 2017, 09:49:07 AM


I do understand that many here feel that once we hit a huge number like $2M, we *MUST* declare FI and retire.

Well, you MUST declare FI because you are FI either way.

RE has never been a requirement here, the point is doing what YOU want after that point because BEFORE FI you are more or less forced to work to survive.


All that being said....by the time someone hits FI, work starts to have an ever decreasing effect on your networth. When someone is saving 100k a year, and only has 100k in the bank, work is pushing them 100% higher!

If they have 2 million in the bank, that same 100k is only 5% so ultimately, one person working and one person NOT working will go from 2 to 3 million at a somewhat similar rate.

To make it a bit more extreme. If you had 100mil in the bank, would you keep work a whole year to go from 100,000,000 to 100,100,000? Probably not.

Ultimately, it's up to you, that's the best part about FI! Though, for many here, @ 2 million, the desire to work and indeed the effectiveness both decline.

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: PathtoFIRE on February 24, 2017, 02:12:52 PM
Congrats on reaching 2, and looking forward to seeing you hit 3.  We are also on the race to 3, having just crossed over to 1 literally today (at least for the first time, who knows how many times we'll zigzag in the next few years).
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on February 26, 2017, 12:34:07 PM
Best part about being a Mustacian between $2M and $3M is that no one knows.
Mustacians in this savings bracket don't stick out as presenting an image of being "rich."
Most people who display the image of being rich really are living paycheck to paycheck.

A guy bought in iPhone 5 off me via Craigslist about a month ago. He was in the US from Costa Rica in order to skydive at 7 different locations. He drove a 1990s VW van (not old enough to have value and definitely not running well). He looked like a 50 year old hippy, yet I would wager that he is more financially independent than most of my gold-collar friends.

Stealth wealth is the place for me.  I'm just not comfortable letting people know my NW has crested 2M.  Since we still work it doesn't show much.  I shop at the dollar store and Goodwill.   My vehicle is 9 years old.  We haven't moved out of the home we bought in 1992.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on April 21, 2017, 07:35:40 AM
Best part about being a Mustacian between $2M and $3M is that no one knows.
Mustacians in this savings bracket don't stick out as presenting an image of being "rich."
Most people who display the image of being rich really are living paycheck to paycheck.

A guy bought in iPhone 5 off me via Craigslist about a month ago. He was in the US from Costa Rica in order to skydive at 7 different locations. He drove a 1990s VW van (not old enough to have value and definitely not running well). He looked like a 50 year old hippy, yet I would wager that he is more financially independent than most of my gold-collar friends.

Stealth wealth is the place for me.  I'm just not comfortable letting people know my NW has crested 2M.  Since we still work it doesn't show much.  I shop at the dollar store and Goodwill.   My vehicle is 9 years old.  We haven't moved out of the home we bought in 1992.


Me too!  While we are not quite at 2M yet ( see the other thread ), we should be there soon.

Stealth wealth is awesome.  We also stayed in our original home in a modest neighborhood.  I really don't feel the need to do the 'keeping up with the Joneses' thing like so many are starting to do again.  I can guarantee you that many who do that are only presenting an image.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Koogie on April 21, 2017, 07:44:34 AM
Just crested into this bracket recently on the back of the market surge (based on our liquid portfolio only).  I have a feeling we'll dip into and out of this bracket over time based on returns.  Have no real plans to hit 3MM (since we are both already semi-RE)   but you never know what the future holds.
 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on April 21, 2017, 01:17:18 PM
I'm probably working till about June 2019.  I want to say I retired at 50 and that's the last month to make the claim.   Gives us time to fund two more rounds of 401ks and Roth IRAs.  Will start HSA then as well.  Our youngest is headed to trade school and should finish up about then.  Gives me time to hike the AT SOBO south from Maine.   Going to use vacation time to start working north from GA early 2019 for a few hundred miles. 
Then not sure presently where we go.  Hope to spend about half of what the 2M will yield so it can grow. Will probably find work if it dips below 2M for very long.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: markbike528CBX on April 21, 2017, 01:53:16 PM
Replying to sneak in by cheating (counting house equity for this purpose).
1.9M liquid (90% equities) and net house equity  ~0.3M.

I'm  hoping to be in honestly (liquid NW only) soon.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on April 21, 2017, 09:01:19 PM
Replying to sneak in by cheating (counting house equity for this purpose).
1.9M liquid (90% equities) and net house equity  ~0.3M.

I'm  hoping to be in honestly (liquid NW only) soon.

Lots of us will be legitimate soon.  We'll have the option of hanging out with those slouches on the 1M to 2M thread till then.  ;)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on April 21, 2017, 09:03:27 PM
Just crested into this bracket recently on the back of the market surge (based on our liquid portfolio only).  I have a feeling we'll dip into and out of this bracket over time based on returns.  Have no real plans to hit 3MM (since we are both already semi-RE)   but you never know what the future holds.

You made it this far I'd think 3M is on autopilot.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on April 21, 2017, 09:05:12 PM
Best part about being a Mustacian between $2M and $3M is that no one knows.
Mustacians in this savings bracket don't stick out as presenting an image of being "rich."
Most people who display the image of being rich really are living paycheck to paycheck.

A guy bought in iPhone 5 off me via Craigslist about a month ago. He was in the US from Costa Rica in order to skydive at 7 different locations. He drove a 1990s VW van (not old enough to have value and definitely not running well). He looked like a 50 year old hippy, yet I would wager that he is more financially independent than most of my gold-collar friends.

Stealth wealth is the place for me.  I'm just not comfortable letting people know my NW has crested 2M.  Since we still work it doesn't show much.  I shop at the dollar store and Goodwill.   My vehicle is 9 years old.  We haven't moved out of the home we bought in 1992.


Me too!  While we are not quite at 2M yet ( see the other thread ), we should be there soon.

Stealth wealth is awesome.  We also stayed in our original home in a modest neighborhood.  I really don't feel the need to do the 'keeping up with the Joneses' thing like so many are starting to do again.  I can guarantee you that many who do that are only presenting an image.
 
Hard to believe it's really real at times.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: begood on May 04, 2017, 02:41:19 PM
*waves* Hi! I'm coming over from the Race to $1M to $2M thread. Copied my intro info from over there:

Quote
Our net worth is at 2.3 right now. My husband maxes out his 403(b), which, including maxing catch-up contributions  and the employer match, added up to $30.5K last year. But it read as "noise" (redacted poorly worded phrasing) didn't affect our  overall net worth much. The additions we are making don't make a big difference when the market goes up, and they won't make a big difference when the market goes down.

We live in provided housing at my husband's job, and we don't want to be landlords, so we haven't had real estate since we lost $80K on the sale of our house in 2009. We have REITs but no equity. So aside from 7% we keep in money market accounts and a CD because if my husband lost his job, we'd lose both his income and housing, our entire stache is out there in "Return is Not Guaranteed Land", which feels darker and more foreboding the older I get.

We made our first million by saving in a corporate culture where most of our peers spent. The climb to the second million got a huge boost with a $300K inheritance in 2014. But now I don't see a way to 3 or 4, so I would love to hear more from libertarian4321 about why those are easier/inevitable. Frankly, I'm more worried about that value dropping in half than I am convinced it will double.

Besides not having any home equity, the looming truth of eventual COLLEGE COSTS is starting to set in. I've got a bright, artistic, introverted, straight-As ninth grader who to date has absolutely tanked her standardized tests and would flounder in a big university environment. So we are looking at small liberal arts colleges (SLAC) that cost umpteen dollars a year.

And the whole healthcare thing is literally giving me headache today. Aging is a preexisting condition - we're all going to get it eventually. Even at 52, I'm basically uninsurable on the open market. Do we all just hope we can keep jobs with health insurance?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on May 04, 2017, 02:50:12 PM
*waves* Hi! I'm coming over from the Race to $1M to $2M thread. Copied my intro info from over there:

Quote
Our net worth is at 2.3 right now. My husband maxes out his 403(b), which, including maxing catch-up contributions  and the employer match, added up to $30.5K last year. But it read as "noise" (redacted poorly worded phrasing) didn't affect our  overall net worth much. The additions we are making don't make a big difference when the market goes up, and they won't make a big difference when the market goes down.

We live in provided housing at my husband's job, and we don't want to be landlords, so we haven't had real estate since we lost $80K on the sale of our house in 2009. We have REITs but no equity. So aside from 7% we keep in money market accounts and a CD because if my husband lost his job, we'd lose both his income and housing, our entire stache is out there in "Return is Not Guaranteed Land", which feels darker and more foreboding the older I get.

We made our first million by saving in a corporate culture where most of our peers spent. The climb to the second million got a huge boost with a $300K inheritance in 2014. But now I don't see a way to 3 or 4, so I would love to hear more from libertarian4321 about why those are easier/inevitable. Frankly, I'm more worried about that value dropping in half than I am convinced it will double.

Besides not having any home equity, the looming truth of eventual COLLEGE COSTS is starting to set in. I've got a bright, artistic, introverted, straight-As ninth grader who to date has absolutely tanked her standardized tests and would flounder in a big university environment. So we are looking at small liberal arts colleges (SLAC) that cost umpteen dollars a year.

And the whole healthcare thing is literally giving me headache today. Aging is a preexisting condition - we're all going to get it eventually. Even at 52, I'm basically uninsurable on the open market. Do we all just hope we can keep jobs with health insurance?

Us too!  Our 12th grader does great in school but also has not-so-great standardized test scores.  It was the same way with my wife and I.  Frankly, I think standardized tests are a complete joke ( because I'm not good at them..I'm sure ).  She is going to go to our in-state university though.  However, even that can really add up.

And I'm in the same boat with the healthcare issues.  Our family DOES have someone with a 'pre-existing'' condition and it is downright scary to think what might happen.  Folks only seem to be against all of these 'pre-existing' condition protections until it happens to them or someone in their family.  I have seen it time and time again.  It just boggles my mind...


Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: markbike528CBX on May 04, 2017, 02:57:00 PM
.............. So we are looking at small liberal arts colleges (SLAC) that cost umpteen dollars a year.

While your situation might be different, I note that there are scholarships and the like out there, sometimes linked to a specific school and situation (see below).  I found Juniata College to be affordable, a great school (as opposed to a big frat house party).   I mention it since your location is Middle-Atlantic.

When I visited (34 years ago) I was given a tour by a full professor of chemistry, who explained Nuclear Magnetic Resonance in a single, simple sentence.  That professor is finally slimming down his hours this year.  Going back for 30th reunion this year.


 One of the few scholarships for left-handed students is the Frederick and Mary F. Beckley Scholarship, which was created in 1979 at Juniata College in Pennsylvania. Worth $1,000 to $1,500 annually, this scholarship is reserved for lefties who have completed at least their freshman year at Juniata with top academic achievement above the 3.3 GPA mark and campus leadership. Applications must include two personal references, proof of financial need, and certification of grades.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: begood on May 04, 2017, 03:00:47 PM
.............. So we are looking at small liberal arts colleges (SLAC) that cost umpteen dollars a year.

While your situation might be different, I note that there are scholarships and the like out there, sometimes linked to a specific school and situation (see below).  I found Juniata College to be affordable, a great school (as opposed to a big frat house party).   I mention it since your location is Middle-Atlantic.

When I visited (34 years ago) I was given a tour by a full professor of chemistry, who explained Nuclear Magnetic Resonance in a single, simple sentence.  That professor is finally slimming down his hours this year.  Going back for 30th reunion this year.


 One of the few scholarships for left-handed students is the Frederick and Mary F. Beckley Scholarship, which was created in 1979 at Juniata College in Pennsylvania. Worth $1,000 to $1,500 annually, this scholarship is reserved for lefties who have completed at least their freshman year at Juniata with top academic achievement above the 3.3 GPA mark and campus leadership. Applications must include two personal references, proof of financial need, and certification of grades.

Thanks for that info on Juniata, markbike528CBX. As luck would have it, my daughter is a leftie! However, we will not have "proof of financial need", since we're here on this thread. :)

We're going to look at test-optional schools. She should have a pretty darn good art portfolio to offer up instead of SAT scores, and my understanding is that a lot of colleges do just sort of wave their hands and "grant" lower tuition than the sticker price, at least once you're down below the Top 50 in the rankings.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: PathtoFIRE on May 05, 2017, 09:39:08 AM
There are a number of smaller colleges that provide free tuition. I did a google search, and the number vary, here is one of the top links, but take a look yourself
http://www.valuecolleges.com/top-25-tuition-free-colleges/
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on May 05, 2017, 02:19:02 PM
I think you'll indeed find that the lower ranked a school, the more merit aid your daughter will attract.  My son nearly flunked out freshman and sophomore year of high school and spent junior and senior years bringing his overall gpa slightly above average.  He went to a lower ranking technical private college his first year and received 25% of total cost in merit aid.  We get zip through FAFSA. 

It's definately tough.  Have a job and you make too much (anything above the government's official poverty level is "available to pay for college") but retire early and with health insurance so up in the air, how do you pay for that?

I've got one half way through college and another who is a freshman in high school.  With both of them, there is the expectation that they're not just "going to college".  If there is not a well defined career from the chosen major, I'll be funding plumbing or HVAC school.  The cost of a Lamborghini Huracan (what my older son's college costs.....no, really, the MSRP is a direct match) for an engineering degree I can handle.  For an underwater basket weaving degree?  Nope.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: begood on May 05, 2017, 02:46:00 PM
I hear you, Car Jack. I feel like things are different now. When I went to college in the early 1980s, college was when you figured out what you wanted to do with your life. Now we expect high school kids to know by the time they pick a college, so that college can match their career goal.

I'm hoping my daughter doesn't get star-struck at the idea of an art college. I'd much much rather she go to a LAC and double major - art and business, art and economics, graphic design and marketing, or major/minor. I have always told her that she IS an artist, but that vocation and avocation are not always the same thing, and she does need to be able to support herself.

But life is long and people change and grow. My dad didn't start his life's work until 40. He didn't start college until age 31, after serving in WWII. He didn't know as a soldier from a small mill town in New Jersey that he'd end up dean of a top journalism school twenty-five years later.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on May 07, 2017, 08:08:36 AM
Art and business is a good match.  I played in our church band for several years and our best singer was a music college grad.  Between services, she lamented that she didn't take at least music business, rather than just music performance because at 25, she had no choice but to live in her parents basement.

Another example I'll throw out there is my sister.  She received and art degree but finding no jobs in art, took a legal admin type course.  She's worked in law offices for many years doing the background work that law offices do.  She still does her art for fun (we have great paintings of our cats) but makes no money from it.

Changing majors can be ok.  My older son did this.  He was in a computer engineering program and just didn't intuitively get it.  I'm a EE and noticed his inability to look at a circuit and figure out generally what it did.  He could go through the 9 pages of math and come up with the equation defining it but not understand what's going on.  He switched to civil engineering where things made much more sense.  This was a great thing to realize.  Sure, some credits were somewhat lost but he didn't end up at the end of a Bachelors degree with an occupation that he would grow to hate. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on May 07, 2017, 11:35:26 AM
I thought I might throw a marker in here.

I hope I don't fall to the temptation to actively join the race to $3M, but fear I might.

Firstly, our progress thus far.....

In March we passed $2.5M AUD. not so long ago that would have been $2.5M USD, but not so anymore. I should pass $2M USD at some point this year, all going to plan.

We are currently renting, but do own 2 houses which are rented out, one was our former home before we moved Overseas for work. We are not sure whether we will move back there or sell. Currently the plan is to sell and buy something significantly cheaper. The other place was bought purely as a rental. We do plan on buying a home at some point, so our invested NW will take a hit at some point.

So with financial introductions done, back to the fear that I might be tempted to race to $3M USD.....

.... are you ready for some MMM blasphemy.... :-O

Whilst $2.5M is a lot of money, i am a little tempted with the thought that if I don't touch that money, then 10 years from now it will most likely be worth $5 million, and 20 years from now, when I would be a normal retirement age, it could potentially be worth $10 million.

$10 million is a crazy amount of money!!!!.... even if it is only Aussie dollars.

I struggle to imagine how we could possibly spend $500,000 a year. I certainly can't even fathom being worth $10 million, but somehow we have put ourselves in a position where, even if we never save another cent, we could end up very wealthy with a NW of $10 million. Maybe our mustachian selves will need a makeover. Maybe we will buy a second car. Lol.

So where to from here.....

My DW is a school teacher and loves her job. She is still in her 30s (just) with no plans of retiring. She wants to work maybe 6 months a year once I stop work. Her part time wage From 6 months/ year of work will cover about 60% of our expenses, so for us to keep piling up money by not touching the stash at all, I would only need to find something that pays a fraction of what I currently earn. I definitely don't want to work more than 6 months a year, but would definitely contemplate some form of contract/ seasonal work, maybe a few company directorships or something like that.

So plan A is to FIRE in 2 years once we hit $3M AUD in net worth (2.25M USD). We will then take a long trip, maybe a year or so and relocate back to Australia..... we can then live quite a spendypants FIRED life with no more work.

Plan G (for greedy) is the same as plan A, but once we get back to Oz we seek to cover our costs through part time work, and watch our NW climb over time to $5M, and maybe even $10M in the extreme case.

I don't think we will be able to make a decision until after I pull the pin on the current job 2 years from now. Counting down the days to our first FIRE.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on May 07, 2017, 11:57:14 PM
One word, itchyfeet: philanthropy.

PTF. If I include the value of DH's defined benefit pension, we're there. I'm not counting our paid-for 1.3M home or the equity in our (lightly mortgaged) SFH rental properties. We're not racing anymore though, just cruising along, enjoying life, and the scenery, and smelling the roses.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: begood on May 08, 2017, 05:23:11 AM
One word, itchyfeet: philanthropy.

PTF. If I include the value of DH's defined benefit pension, we're there. I'm not counting our paid-for 1.3M home or the equity in our (lightly mortgaged) SFH rental properties. We're not racing anymore though, just cruising along, enjoying life, and the scenery, and smelling the roses.

Dicey, if you don't mind my asking, how do you assign a value to your husband's defined benefit pension? My husband should get about $27K/year (flat,non-COLA'd, 50% joint survivor) starting in 13 years. He worked for the MNC (multinational corporation) for 20 years, then moved on to a second career at age 43. He could take the pension earlier, but the amount would drop precipitously, so we hope to wait until he's 65. The pension is insured by PBGC.

We also have the option of retiree health insurance through the company, but would have to pay both the employer and employee amounts, currently $18K/year. In the current unstable environment, that might be the only way I could get health insurance at all if my husband lost his job. Expensive as it would be, at least it is an option we can keep in our back pocket.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on May 08, 2017, 07:44:20 AM
Caught the spread sheet up to date since the new values of my savings bonds have clicked over for May.  Now at $2.1M.

I think I'm also ultra conservative on my numbers.  I have a very small pension coming where I could take $53k lump sum right now if I wanted (I left the job in 1993) and do not include it in any of my numbers.  I probably should count it but I guess I always look for any downside that might happen.  I'm happy that the pension is at Fidelity now (the original company no longer exists). 

I love doing mouse nuts kinda things.  My insurance was due so I went online and made 3 payments.  First 2 were with new cards that I had to get the spend to collect the bonus.  Then I overpaid the thing with my double cash.  Just got an overpayment check Friday, so there's $20 in undeserved points that I'm happy to keep.  :D
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Laura33 on May 08, 2017, 08:00:20 AM
Dicey, if you don't mind my asking, how do you assign a value to your husband's defined benefit pension? My husband should get about $27K/year (flat,non-COLA'd, 50% joint survivor) starting in 13 years.

Well, you didn't ask me :-), but what I do is divide by .04, to figure how how much the "'stache-equivalent" amount is.  E.g., to take out $27K/yr at the 4% rule, I'd need $675K.  Now, that is the 'stache-equivalent in 13 years, when he is eligible for that $27K/yr.  So if you want the current value of that, you could present-value it back to today's dollars.  But personally, I don't care that much -- I just like to know that, hey, in 13 years, I will have the equivalent of $675K more in my 'stache. 

But actually, even that is bass-ackwards, because the whole point of the 'stache is to throw off income -- so when you already know the income, you don't even need to calculate an equivalent 'stache value.  So in your case, I'd just knock the $27K off of the annual income you need, and then figure out how much else you need to save to cover the delta.  E.g., I need $40K/yr, I have $27K/yr already guaranteed, so my delta is $13K/yr.  Ergo, 4% rule, I need $13K x 25 = $325K more in my 'stache in 13 years. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: begood on May 08, 2017, 08:09:53 AM
Dicey, if you don't mind my asking, how do you assign a value to your husband's defined benefit pension? My husband should get about $27K/year (flat,non-COLA'd, 50% joint survivor) starting in 13 years.

Well, you didn't ask me :-), but what I do is divide by .04, to figure how how much the "'stache-equivalent" amount is.  E.g., to take out $27K/yr at the 4% rule, I'd need $675K.  Now, that is the 'stache-equivalent in 13 years, when he is eligible for that $27K/yr.  So if you want the current value of that, you could present-value it back to today's dollars.  But personally, I don't care that much -- I just like to know that, hey, in 13 years, I will have the equivalent of $675K more in my 'stache. 

But actually, even that is bass-ackwards, because the whole point of the 'stache is to throw off income -- so when you already know the income, you don't even need to calculate an equivalent 'stache value.  So in your case, I'd just knock the $27K off of the annual income you need, and then figure out how much else you need to save to cover the delta.  E.g., I need $40K/yr, I have $27K/yr already guaranteed, so my delta is $13K/yr.  Ergo, 4% rule, I need $13K x 25 = $325K more in my 'stache in 13 years.

Laura33, I could hug you! Thank you for laying it all out so clearly for me. That's pretty awesome. And it reassures me that we probably did the right thing not taking a lump sum when it was offered a couple of years ago, since it was less than 1/3 of the equation you posted above. I realize we're rolling the dice on the annuity being what's promised. The pension is insured with PBGC, so he should get something.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on May 08, 2017, 08:34:10 AM
I have a small defined benefit pension entitlement as well from 55, that will be CPI adjusted, with 50% to be paid to DW after I croak.

I value it similar to you. Ie: Entitlement in today's $ x 25, inflated forward 10 years at 3% inflation and discounted at 7%.

Being a spreadsheet nerd, the thing I like about the inflating/ discounting is that every month I unwind the inflation/discount by another month, and my stash grows :-)

I use a multiple of 25x to honor the 4% rule, but in the context of SWRs the pension is worth more, because it's not subject to sequence of returns risk, so you could prob even user a higher multiple, as you could technically take a riskier view on your remaining stash thanks to the pension. There is 100% certainty my pension will last 30, 40 or 50 years. However long I live post 55. Just as long as the Govt doesn't go bankrupt.

I do agree that once I am receiving the pension, the most correct way to factor in its value into planning is just to reduce the expenditure to be covered by the "stash" by the amount of the pension. But for today, for NW calculations, I like to assign a value to it. It makes me feel closer to my goal.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: wannabe-stache on May 16, 2017, 01:50:57 PM
I paid off my house about 15 years ago.  Back then, I was an overly cautious investor, having bought company stock during the '87 selloff.  So paying off debt and the mortgage was the only ways I invested.

There's nothing wrong with tracking net worth and using that number for goals to attain.  I constantly change my goals once one is reached.  I had the $2M goal for quite a while for investments only.  Then it was to hit $1M within just my rollover IRA (not quite there).  When I hit that, I'll set some new, short term, attainable, arbitrary goal.  I've actually got one small goal in my Vanguard account to get back to zero.  It's been in developed international for about 2 years and is still under water.  I'm $2900 from getting to zero on a $250k account.

I still sweat the small stuff.  From the tradeline thread, I read about low balance forgiveness and tried it on several of my cards.  $0.98 forgiven on Barclays and $1.96 forgiven on discover.  Sounds like mouse nuts but free money is free money.  I showed my wife the Discover statement which also gave me $0.10 in rewards because I spent that $1.96 on gas, which is a 5% category this quarter.  And yah.....I pick up pennies on the sidewalk.

i am curious.  at what point do you loosen up?  when you have $3M, will you be "ok" spending $ on going out to eat?  buying a nice bottle of wine? etc.?

i am new to this line of thinking.  i have always been a big saver but i had jobs that allowed me to spend as well.  i have approx. $1M of savings (my wife has an additional $500K) and we are only 37 and 33 respectively. i suppose i could have saved more but i wouldn't trade our trips to greece or israel or italy for anything.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on May 16, 2017, 05:59:41 PM
i am curious.  at what point do you loosen up?  when you have $3M, will you be "ok" spending $ on going out to eat?  buying a nice bottle of wine? etc.?

i am new to this line of thinking.  i have always been a big saver but i had jobs that allowed me to spend as well.  i have approx. $1M of savings (my wife has an additional $500K) and we are only 37 and 33 respectively. i suppose i could have saved more but i wouldn't trade our trips to greece or israel or italy for anything.

So, that's something that most people have to answer for themselves.  I have not been a model Mustachian by any means.  I drive a Wrangler, I used to own a Racecar and a Cobra replica and then a Lotus Elise.  I've owned an E30 M3.  I go to lunch everyday at work (Subway).  Wife and I don't drink so we've likely saved lots of money there.  But we watch our money.  I do nearly all of our car repairs (my garage has a lift and just about any tool you could name......remember I had a racecar).  We're older parents (1st born when I was 40, second I was 44) so we still have one in college and one in high school.  I'm figuring that at 2.5M, I'm going to be "fine".  We believe in providing the best education we can for the kids so, yah....I make too much to get financial aid and the bill is $60k a year.  That's fine.  We won't go to Europe until the second is at least in college. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on May 16, 2017, 09:18:59 PM
We're going to Puerto Vallarta Saturday for a week of vacation.   I'm seriously thinking of expatriating in a few years.   Mexico is a possibility, but there are many possibilities. I'm working at least two more years to keep health care for my kids.  Will likely keep citizenship, just move residential status to Florida maybe.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on May 18, 2017, 01:23:42 AM
Dicey, if you don't mind my asking, how do you assign a value to your husband's defined benefit pension? My husband should get about $27K/year (flat,non-COLA'd, 50% joint survivor) starting in 13 years.

Well, you didn't ask me :-), but what I do is divide by .04, to figure how how much the "'stache-equivalent" amount is.  E.g., to take out $27K/yr at the 4% rule, I'd need $675K.  Now, that is the 'stache-equivalent in 13 years, when he is eligible for that $27K/yr.  So if you want the current value of that, you could present-value it back to today's dollars.  But personally, I don't care that much -- I just like to know that, hey, in 13 years, I will have the equivalent of $675K more in my 'stache. 

But actually, even that is bass-ackwards, because the whole point of the 'stache is to throw off income -- so when you already know the income, you don't even need to calculate an equivalent 'stache value.  So in your case, I'd just knock the $27K off of the annual income you need, and then figure out how much else you need to save to cover the delta.  E.g., I need $40K/yr, I have $27K/yr already guaranteed, so my delta is $13K/yr.  Ergo, 4% rule, I need $13K x 25 = $325K more in my 'stache in 13 years.

Laura33, I could hug you! Thank you for laying it all out so clearly for me. That's pretty awesome. And it reassures me that we probably did the right thing not taking a lump sum when it was offered a couple of years ago, since it was less than 1/3 of the equation you posted above. I realize we're rolling the dice on the annuity being what's promised. The pension is insured with PBGC, so he should get something.
More hugs for Laura33 then, because I have no idea. We don't count it that specifically. This may sound weird, but here's why. Our house and cars are paid for, we have three rental properties, we have a boatload of money in equities, a shit-ton of money in cash waiting for whatever we decide to do with it next, and DH is still working, so we're not tapping any of it yet. I've never run a Fire Calc or whatever it's called. I don't use YNAB or whatever the latest budgeting tool is. All we ever did was spend less than we earned and tried to invest the difference wisely. Now, however you slice it, we'll have enough. I mentioned on another thread today that DH's pension plus our SS estimates add up to more than we earn now. We're gonna be fine, so why spend too much time doing endless calculations?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on May 18, 2017, 11:36:13 AM
Dicey, if you don't mind my asking, how do you assign a value to your husband's defined benefit pension? My husband should get about $27K/year (flat,non-COLA'd, 50% joint survivor) starting in 13 years.

Well, you didn't ask me :-), but what I do is divide by .04, to figure how how much the "'stache-equivalent" amount is.  E.g., to take out $27K/yr at the 4% rule, I'd need $675K.  Now, that is the 'stache-equivalent in 13 years, when he is eligible for that $27K/yr.  So if you want the current value of that, you could present-value it back to today's dollars.  But personally, I don't care that much -- I just like to know that, hey, in 13 years, I will have the equivalent of $675K more in my 'stache. 

But actually, even that is bass-ackwards, because the whole point of the 'stache is to throw off income -- so when you already know the income, you don't even need to calculate an equivalent 'stache value.  So in your case, I'd just knock the $27K off of the annual income you need, and then figure out how much else you need to save to cover the delta.  E.g., I need $40K/yr, I have $27K/yr already guaranteed, so my delta is $13K/yr.  Ergo, 4% rule, I need $13K x 25 = $325K more in my 'stache in 13 years.

Laura33, I could hug you! Thank you for laying it all out so clearly for me. That's pretty awesome. And it reassures me that we probably did the right thing not taking a lump sum when it was offered a couple of years ago, since it was less than 1/3 of the equation you posted above. I realize we're rolling the dice on the annuity being what's promised. The pension is insured with PBGC, so he should get something.
More hugs for Laura33 then, because I have no idea. We don't count it that specifically. This may sound weird, but here's why. Our house and cars are paid for, we have three rental properties, we have a boatload of money in equities, a shit-ton of money in cash waiting for whatever we decide to do with it next, and DH is still working, so we're not tapping any of it yet. I've never run a Fire Calc or whatever it's called. I don't use YNAB or whatever the latest budgeting tool is. All we ever did was spend less than we earned and tried to invest the difference wisely. Now, however you slice it, we'll have enough. I mentioned on another thread today that DH's pension plus our SS estimates add up to more than we earn now. We're gonna be fine, so why spend too much time doing endless calculations?

Or..... why keep working?!!! :-)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on May 26, 2017, 10:40:17 PM
Oh, hey, Itchyfeet! I've covered it before, so sometimes I skip details so as not to sound like an ol' broken record.

DH works because:

1. His mom has Alzheimer's and she lives with us. He likes to stay busy, so being trapped here would drive him nuts!
(Yeah, FIRE doesn't look a bit like what I imagined right now, but for me, it still beats the hell out of working.)

2. He has 17 out of 20 years needed to hit the sweet spot for his Defined Benefit Pension. Why give that up?

3. He loves his job, has every other Friday off, gets every holiday paid, earns tons of vacation time and has months and months of accrued sick time accumulated. His office is 3.5 blocks from our house. On workdays, we get up early, I make his breakfast, pack his lunch while he eats, and we walk to work together at 5:45. Then I come home and go back to sleep :-)

4. Our current health care coverage has no premiums, no deductibles and tiny co-pays. At 20 years of service, we get $550/month for healthcare, AND we get to stay on the company's healthcare plan at the retiree rate. This is huge. I've had cancer and he obviously has Alzheimer's in the family tree, so to stay on the company's plan will save a boatload of money in healthcare costs for the rest of our lives.

It just wouldn't be frugal or even sensible to leave so much on the table.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on May 26, 2017, 11:41:21 PM
Hey Dicey. Sorry to make you cover old ground again.

You never know,  might do 3 more years myself. We are taking 6 month at a time....
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on May 28, 2017, 01:48:24 PM
Oh, hey, Itchyfeet! I've covered it before, so sometimes I skip details so as not to sound like an ol' broken record.

DH works because:

1. His mom has Alzheimer's and she lives with us. He likes to stay busy, so being trapped here would drive him nuts!
(Yeah, FIRE doesn't look a bit like what I imagined right now, but for me, it still beats the hell out of working.)

2. He has 17 out of 20 years needed to hit the sweet spot for his Defined Benefit Pension. Why give that up?

3. He loves his job, has every other Friday off, gets every holiday paid, earns tons of vacation time and has months and months of accrued sick time accumulated. His office is 3.5 blocks from our house. On workdays, we get up early, I make his breakfast, pack his lunch while he eats, and we walk to work together at 5:45. Then I come home and go back to sleep :-)

4. Our current health care coverage has no premiums, no deductibles and tiny co-pays. At 20 years of service, we get $550/month for healthcare, AND we get to stay on the company's healthcare plan at the retiree rate. This is huge. I've had cancer and he obviously has Alzheimer's in the family tree, so to stay on the company's plan will save a boatload of money in healthcare costs for the rest of our lives.

It just wouldn't be frugal or even sensible to leave so much on the table.

Pensions are a great reason to work a few more years, if you are lucky enough to have one.  People sometimes don't realize what an incredible asset a defined pension can be.  Too bad fewer and fewer people will have them as time goes on.



Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on May 29, 2017, 01:52:25 AM
You're right, farmecologist.

In his late thirties, DH realized he'd earned a lot of money as a painting contractor,  but didn't have much to show for it. He did his research and applied for his current position, specifically for the retirement benefits. He took a huge pay cut at first. To bridge the gap, he continued painting on the side, which is how we met in 2001. He was married to his high school sweetheart and they had two kids. Fast forward eleven years. I called him to paint my house again. He was a widower by then. We started talking. He painted my house. We kept talking and got married three months later. He doesn't do side jobs much these days, 'cause together we're FI. Instead of working for others on the side, we BRRR houses for fun.

As a bonus, his company is about as solid as they come, so the likelihood of collecting said pension is quite high. Wouldn't derail us if it wasn't all that was promised, but let's hope we never have to find out. We have charitable plans for our excess retirement income.

Hey Dicey. Sorry to make you cover old ground again.

You never know,  might do 3 more years myself. We are taking 6 month at a time....
Thank you, but no apology is necessary, Itchyfeet!

Six months at a time sounds like an excellent plan.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: markbike528CBX on June 09, 2017, 05:04:44 PM
Replying to sneak in by cheating (counting house equity for this purpose).
1.9M liquid (90% equities) and net house equity  ~0.3M.

I'm  hoping to be in honestly (liquid NW only) soon.

I'm now in the "race" fair and square (>$2M liquid), although I'm think I'll be stepping out of the race and let the gains to heavy lifting (they already are) soon.   Hope you all pass me by and wave on your way to $3M.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on June 09, 2017, 07:34:57 PM
Replying to sneak in by cheating (counting house equity for this purpose).
1.9M liquid (90% equities) and net house equity  ~0.3M.

I'm  hoping to be in honestly (liquid NW only) soon.

I'm now in the "race" fair and square (>$2M liquid), although I'm think I'll be stepping out of the race and let the gains to heavy lifting (they already are) soon.   Hope you all pass me by and wave on your way to $3M.

Just hop on and draft behind us.  Makes us faster too.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on June 12, 2017, 06:41:21 PM
Congrats on the new milestone!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on June 30, 2017, 07:41:05 AM
KABOOM!!!

Just tallied up my 30 June numbers and thanks to a weaker USD I have crossed the $2M USD of Net Worth.

Sweet 😁
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: markbike528CBX on June 30, 2017, 09:05:58 AM
I'm now in the "race" fair and square (>$2M liquid), although I'm think I'll be stepping out of the race and let the gains to heavy lifting (they already are) soon.   Hope you all pass me by and wave on your way to $3M.

Just hop on and draft behind us.  Makes us faster too.

I wouldn't have thought of that car racing analogy on a financial forum, but it makes sense.
Just reading the forum gives one lots of ideas to add speed to FIRE. Posting helps me think through my logic.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on June 30, 2017, 11:14:49 AM
I was thinking or bicycle racing when I wrote that but car racing works too.  Either way, a bunch of us moving along help each other by staying in a close pack.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on July 07, 2017, 02:08:33 AM
I'm so ready to post here with 2M liquid, NW I'm pretty legit.   Y'all are the cool kids!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Mr Griz on July 09, 2017, 07:46:22 PM
Just checked Personal Capital and it shows us at $2.25M, not including the mortgage-free house.

Sadly I didn't realize until recently that things were looking so good.  We've felt for several years that we were in good shape but never had an accounting of all our various IRA's, 401k's and cash accounts until recently.  I stumbled across jlcollinsnh a couple of months ago and that led to MMM and a more focused way of looking at finances.  DW retired a few years ago and I plan to bail this time next year.  (I have some deferred incentive compensation that will vest then).  In the meantime I'm consolidating everything into a couple of Vanguard accounts (one taxable, the other an IRA) and putting our excess cash to work.

The cool thing is that our two pensions should easily cover living expenses.  The 'stache should grow to $3M in a few years without any withdrawals.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on July 10, 2017, 01:22:14 AM
Contratulations Mr Griz. The world is now your playground :)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on July 16, 2017, 03:14:10 PM
I wasn't sure if I graduated to this group as our "liquid" includes $519k in pensions.. so assuming they are still there when we plan to start using them then liquid NW is $2.344M.

House (includes two rentals on the same property) I am guessing will net us $400k.. but it currently pays about $20k in rent so its hard to sell..:)

We are both RE'd now
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: SingleMomDebt on July 16, 2017, 05:27:14 PM
I wasn't sure if I graduated to this group as our "liquid" includes $519k in pensions.. so assuming they are still there when we plan to start using them then liquid NW is $2.344M.

House (includes two rentals on the same property) I am guessing will net us $400k.. but it currently pays about $20k in rent so its hard to sell..:)

We are both RE'd now

Congrats ExFB!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on July 16, 2017, 06:48:50 PM
I wasn't sure if I graduated to this group as our "liquid" includes $519k in pensions.. so assuming they are still there when we plan to start using them then liquid NW is $2.344M.

House (includes two rentals on the same property) I am guessing will net us $400k.. but it currently pays about $20k in rent so its hard to sell..:)

We are both RE'd now

Congrats ExFB!

Thanks Chip..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on July 21, 2017, 12:34:17 AM
Well done Exflyboy.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on August 02, 2017, 11:05:55 PM
This fantastic thread deserves to be at the top of the list.  Not near enough traffic here.  Bump.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on August 02, 2017, 11:30:01 PM
Haha Bateaux.

I think the issue is that this thread is almost the antithesis of MMM. If one is frugal why would you need more than $2M.

In any case, accumulating more than $2M either requires a lot of time or a very high income.

I would presume that most people who have accumulated more than $2M are already in there 50s, so not the core audience of MMM. Only a small percentage of MMM posters are doctors, lawyers, investment bankers, CEOs etc who could earn there way to $2M at a young age.

A few will have got very lucky with their finances (like me), by taking risks when young that paid off over the years.

I know that there are plenty of wealthy MMM posters, but most are FIRED and don't give a hoot about any race towards even greater wealth.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on August 03, 2017, 02:44:49 AM
Hmm we're FIRED yes.. in our 50's yes.. very high income, well did OK but averaged just over $100k.

We saved for 21 years and hit about $2.7m including the house.

Two hoots about making more? Heck I certainly want more.. but maybe I'm greedy :)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on August 03, 2017, 02:49:49 AM
Itchy feet I just read about your biking vacation.   Can't wait to do that.  Maybe we'll meet you guys in person out there soon.  My wife does her second Ironman next month.   All that training would be put to great use.  I'm 49 and have no plans to be working at 51.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on August 03, 2017, 03:31:46 AM
Hmm we're FIRED yes.. in our 50's yes.. very high income, well did OK but averaged just over $100k.

We saved for 21 years and hit about $2.7m including the house.

Two hoots about making more? Heck I certainly want more.. but maybe I'm greedy :)

Well done on amassing $2.7M. Obviously you are not too greedy having chosen FIRE over trying to race to $3.0M. I am sure in good time your $2.7M will grow beyond $3.0M even if it is financing your
Lives at the same time.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on August 03, 2017, 05:58:13 AM
Exflyboy I pretty much think that the 3 million number will come unless you do something to avoid it.  Most likely all of us who have breached 2 million NW will see 3 million at some point.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on August 03, 2017, 06:37:15 AM
Interested to see how this thread goes, but I'm on vacation right now...  Funny thing is, I'm 50k or more better off than when I started this trip, makes it tough to focus on being frugal!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: begood on August 03, 2017, 06:40:26 AM
Hmm we're FIRED yes.. in our 50's yes.. very high income, well did OK but averaged just over $100k.

We saved for 21 years and hit about $2.7m including the house.

Two hoots about making more? Heck I certainly want more.. but maybe I'm greedy :)

Well done on amassing $2.7M. Obviously you are not too greedy having chosen FIRE over trying to race to $3.0M. I am sure in good time your $2.7M will grow beyond $3.0M even if it is financing your
Lives at the same time.

We're in our early 50s, not FIREd (husband lives to work; only child still to edumacate through three years of high school and then college).

My husband's income didn't get above $100K until age 34, and then only for ten years. He started a second career for less than half the money but more than twice the personal satisfaction when he was 44. But we started off with some huge advantages: we married young (and stayed married); our parents paid for our college educations, so no student loans; our parents taught us the "save early and often" mantra AND gave us their old cars, so we started our adult lives without any debt at all. We never had to climb out of a hole.

And then we made four interstate moves with the company my husband worked for. He got raises with each new job, the relo packages were generous, and he banked his bonuses and ESOP. That all allowed us to make the choice twenty years later of moving out of corporate life to academic life without feeling like we would stunt our retirement or limit our daughter's education options.

We are nudging up against $2.5M this week.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Mr Griz on August 03, 2017, 07:04:36 AM
We didn't top $2M because it was a goal as such. It was the side effect of living below our means, avoiding debt, and having well-paying jobs that we liked. DW and I both have good defined benefit pensions that will easily cover our expenses when I retire next year. I expect the stache to be over $2.5M by then and it will just keep growing since we shouldn't need to tap into it. I recently reread MMM's post on giving away money. We're going to be looking at that soon I think.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on August 03, 2017, 07:48:15 AM
Congrats, EFB!

Your post reminded me that I don't count the value of DH's Defined Benefit Pension in our NW tally. Oh well, I'm not gonna start now, because that would kick me out of this thread, lol!.

In response to Itchyfeet, yes, we're in our fifties (me just barely, and on the wrong end), but we were never high wage earners. I hit $105k exactly once in my career and I was self-employed, so I paid a higher SS tax haircut. For reasons outlined upthread, DH still works. He earns about 80k a year and will probably work for 3 more years, to hit the max healthcare benefit.

We live in a HCOLA, so housing has always been disproportionately high, but owning RE is what made the biggest impact on our NW. Well, that and a dogged determination to RE dating back to my early twenties.

I also believe there are more "oldsters" around than you think. However, once FIRE hits and the shackles of work are removed, people take advantage of their freedom and fly away.

Regarding giving it away, per Mr Griz, I highly recommend it. DH and I joke that we tithe and then some to our community and we're having a blast doing it.
 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on August 03, 2017, 08:11:34 AM
I'm 60 and am an engineer.  Wife is a nurse.  She left work when our second son arrived.  I've made 6 figures since about 2000 but attribute our gains to the fact that I've always tried to either put off or not buy things.  I'm not above doing menial work and for years, while driving a racecar on weekends (I instructed so no track fees), I was picking up junk cars of the same make, usually for free for racecar spares.  I learned that I could sell the leftover parts between craigslist, racing sites and car marque sites and then the chassis got cut into pieces I could lift on my trailer and I'd go bring them for scrap money.  Anyways, I've always tried to live way below my means and that's my story.  Never had a title above Principal Engineer. 

We're not retired yet with one son in college (we're paying full boat at an expensive private college) and another with some learning issues who may cost us some significant money.  Once the older one graduates and has a job, I'll consider if I'll quit.  The wife would probably go back to work full time then to get the health insurance.  So I won't really retire early....I'll retire on time.  But I was 43 when our second son came, so we are very late with getting the kids set.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on August 03, 2017, 09:10:46 PM
You guys truly are incredible.   Thanks for the motivation. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: bigchrisb on August 03, 2017, 09:20:22 PM
I'm a little younger, 35, wife 37.  I'm an engineer (a theme?), wife a diplomat.  Fortunate to have higher than average incomes, a high savings rate and to have had a fairly aggressive investment strategy through boom markets. 

However, its a pretty simple formula, spend a lot less than you earn, invest the difference, keep at it for years.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on September 02, 2017, 09:51:19 AM
So our NW assuming our house is worth $400k (its a hobby farm with few comps so very hard to estimate) is now $2.766M.

Looking back at this thread I see the NW has grown by $22k since mid July.. or about 2k per week!

This includes the fact we have been in Europe for most of it and of course we're not working.

It seems sort of surreal seeing those number and causes me to think back to 2003 when we had just paid the house off and had very little other savings. My projections at that time showed a NW just North of a million bucks in about 10 years and I had a hard time believing that would really happen.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on September 02, 2017, 10:58:27 AM
Awesome work!

August was a month with zero growth for us, despite working and despite saving around 50% of our pay cheque. Still, 2017 has been good thus far.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: soccerluvof4 on September 03, 2017, 04:59:02 AM
I'm in the "race" from 2M to 3M slightly over half way not including a paid for house or any other assets.  I am going on 2.5 years Fire'd am 52 and MY DW is 48. Just about a year ago because of the Healthcare Scare with 4 kids she took a job with great benefits offset by not the greatest pay.  The big thing is for us is we save every dime she does make or use it specifically on home improvements as we have been redoing the 1970's raised ranch we bought when we downsized.  We have 4 kids one first year of college far out of state and another one leaving in January. Despite scholarships and 529s saved all our kids play select sports which are not cheap so trying to get our number to grow has been challenging but we have been doing it even after my withdrawals to live on. After this year I feel we should see a significant living cost drop so hopefully unless the market tanks and or? we will be there sooner than later. For me its more about the challenge than the need of money as well as preservation. I always am looking for ways to save but also reward ourselves with trips etc..
My DW liked being Fire'd and home with me but she loves her new job and the hours don't interfere. As many said when your going to work knowing you dont need the money its alot easier. Also we save more because though she is not a big spender I love the challenge more to save so I have find alot more way to do so by doing all the shopping and cooking as well as other things. Good luck to all the 3M chasers.  Like someone else mentioned I too would like to be in real-estate and investments but just never seem to find anything that makes sense but I keep looking.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on September 05, 2017, 02:29:50 AM
I feel inadequate in this thread, since I have to throw in personal real estate to belong.  Glad you're all here, gives me a target to aim for.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on September 05, 2017, 07:21:17 AM
I feel inadequate in this thread, since I have to through in personal real estate to belong.  Glad you're all here, gives me a target to aim for.
Don't feel that way, Bateaux! Zillow says my house is worth $1.3M and it's paid for. I count it. What I don't count is the value of DH's Defined Benefit Pension or our rental equity. Meh. There's so much in the pot that our income in retirement is going to exceed what we live on now, which is DH's salary. He has three years to go and I pulled the trigger nearly five years ago.

This makes me question the wisdom of filling tax-deferred accounts over taxable all these years. In some ways it seems like it might have been better to pay the taxes up front. FWP,  I know.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on September 05, 2017, 08:37:55 AM
Dicey,

This is definitely in the "good problem to have category".. You took the option to reduce your tax back then, which meant you could save more money.. yes?.. This also meant your stash grew faster.

So now you have arrived and have more money than you will ever need (yes I'm trying hard to believe this too.. But $5m would be extra safe..:)..)... Now you are faced with extra taxes and probably RMD's in retirement...So.. who cares.. You the man more tax.

I would argue the fact you got to FI sooner and now have a bigger pot which far outweigh the sadness of writing a check for extra taxes.

Yes I will be in this boat too.

Besides, your house is worth $1.3M.. well, when your ready you can sell it.. move to a tiny hovel like mine on nearly 6 acres and have almost a million tax free to spend on a huge party.

I think you have done great..:)

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on September 05, 2017, 09:22:08 PM
Don't mind me.  Still in my 40's and I'm being all winey pants about 2 million NW.  Facepunch, double facepunch.  It's all good. 

Actually had to meditate about buying a new leaf blower a few days ago.   It was  $150 at Lowes $165 with tax, found it for $125 at Amazon with no tax or shipping.  WTF!  I'm a dang millionaire, hell technically a multimillionaire on the lowest rung.  I'm debating a leaf blower purchase.   You people have ruined my life.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on September 05, 2017, 11:40:48 PM
Don't mind me.  Still in my 40's and I'm being all winey pants about 2 million NW.  Facepunch, double facepunch.  It's all good. 

Actually had to meditate about buying a new leaf blower a few days ago.   It was  $150 at Lowes $165 with tax, found it for $125 at Amazon with no tax or shipping.  WTF!  I'm a dang millionaire, hell technically a multimillionaire on the lowest rung.  I'm debating a leaf blower purchase.   You people have ruined my life.

Same here.. I'm trying to talk myself into buying a new+ bigger refrigerator.. The old one is 20 years old.. too small, doesn't match the rest of the kitchen appliances and the shelves have mostly collapsed!.. My NW is only $2.7M, WTF am I thinking.. I'll go broke if I keep throwing money around like this..:)

Or as was pointed out on my Journal ..."doesn't it feel weird to spend 3X as much on a fridge as you did your car?"...:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on September 06, 2017, 01:25:42 AM
Oh, but a new fridge will be so much more energy efficient,  it will pay for itself in no time!

Bateaux, you crack me up!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on September 06, 2017, 01:59:31 AM
Oh, but a new fridge will be so much more energy efficient,  it will pay for itself in no time!

Bateaux, you crack me up!

I did buy a new fridge.  Last one is 25 years old.  Still works, it's still in use in storage room.  Keep beer, water, etc in it.  Ice maker died years ago.   DW wanted fancy ice, water side by side.   Ice without trays is dang nice.  Since I've totally rebuilt and doubled the size of the kitchen everything is new.  Dish washer matches fridge.  Used it once.  Did all my own work.  I did buy the unfinished cabinets, prebuilt.   Still a work in progress.  I have about 19 offers for me to do a tavertine backslash like mine.  No way in hell.  That shit is a PITA!  MMM I'm not when it comes to carpentry, plumbing, electrical, floors.  I do mine but no way I'm hiring myself out.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on September 06, 2017, 07:12:12 AM
Don't mind me.  Still in my 40's and I'm being all winey pants about 2 million NW.  Facepunch, double facepunch.  It's all good. 

Actually had to meditate about buying a new leaf blower a few days ago.   It was  $150 at Lowes $165 with tax, found it for $125 at Amazon with no tax or shipping.  WTF!  I'm a dang millionaire, hell technically a multimillionaire on the lowest rung.  I'm debating a leaf blower purchase.   You people have ruined my life.

I also agonize over purchases like that.  However, I'm convinced that this frugal behavior is what got many of us where we are. 

I see so many people these days 'living it up' with all the 'toys'.  These are people who I'll pretty much guarantee can't afford it ( or have misguided priorities ).  Back before the crash of '08-'09 I saw exactly the same behavior.  People never learn!   

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on September 06, 2017, 10:00:08 AM
Absolutely its what got us to where we are.

I would have passed the "marshmellow test" and been asking if resisted even longer could I get extra marshmellows.. then sold the marshmellows to my friends for cash!

I like my pile of ever increasing marshmellows..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: markbike528CBX on September 06, 2017, 11:48:40 AM
........I also agonize over purchases like that.  However, I'm convinced that this frugal behavior is what got many of us where we are. snip..... 

I don't think of it as being frugal.   I think of it as being more efficient at our retail therapy.   

We get so much more mileage/time over agonizing than the impulsive buyer does.  It took me over two weeks to by some shorts on ebay.  Impulse buyer would have gotten 30seconds on the buy, and another 30 seconds unwrapping the package.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on September 06, 2017, 01:46:58 PM
Don't mind me.  Still in my 40's and I'm being all winey pants about 2 million NW.  Facepunch, double facepunch.  It's all good. 

Actually had to meditate about buying a new leaf blower a few days ago.   It was  $150 at Lowes $165 with tax, found it for $125 at Amazon with no tax or shipping.  WTF!  I'm a dang millionaire, hell technically a multimillionaire on the lowest rung.  I'm debating a leaf blower purchase.   You people have ruined my life.

I also agonize over purchases like that.  However, I'm convinced that this frugal behavior is what got many of us where we are. 

I see so many people these days 'living it up' with all the 'toys'.  These are people who I'll pretty much guarantee can't afford it ( or have misguided priorities ).  Back before the crash of '08-'09 I saw exactly the same behavior.  People never learn!

Well, I know it's not Mustachian, but when I started this journey the whole idea was to delay gratification, but ultimately gratify myself a little.  Now that I'm so far beyond my wildest dreams, I am letting myself enjoy the 'stache a whole lot more.  I even bought one of those 'robo-vacs' during Primeday ($185).  My wife was beside herself when I announced it (she similarly questioned my mental state when I gave her an Apple laptop after years of being anti-Apple) and we use it every day to keep up with the dog and cat fur.

In the whole scheme of things, bringing a little extra joy and life to our household is worth what now amounts to pocket change.  With that said, the bigger issue is reigning in complexity and clutter.  I still evaluate purchases based on if they will 'carry their weight' in terms of taking up space and time in my life.  This one worked out well but we bought a 'fancy refrigerator' (Exflyboy take note) that has most certainly not panned out, maybe just because it was a lemon.  Should've just bought a simple one that did it's main job well though...

Sadly, I've had to stay out of the 'Has the Forum Gone Soft (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/weird-fourm-coversations-has-the-community-gone-soft/msg1664204/#msg1664204)' thread :)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on September 08, 2017, 09:18:31 AM
I'd like some tips on how an apple laptop helps with dog and cat fur.  We have 2 semi-longhair (aka shedding) cats and a 10 year old powerbook.

Kidding, of course.  With the robovac, if it's the name brand, I've worked with the designers for years.  The thing they have not solved and you should be careful about is landmines from the dog.  The unit doesn't know how to handle it so it tends to pick some of it up and spread it all around the room, then come get some more and spread it around the room.

I have the same angst about buying stuff and have on many occasions looked at something and gone home to sleep on it, never to return to buy whatever it was.  Can't even think about how much I've saved vs just buying the thing.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on September 08, 2017, 09:29:59 AM
I've gone to the big box stores and sporting goods stores many times filling a cart with items.  I had a thousand dollars worth of reloading equipment mentally bought.  Pushed it round and round the giant Cabelas store.  Then put it back on the shelf.  Sometimes I don't even have to be in the store.  Academy sports just had an incredible deal on an AR15 rifle.  The best price I'd ever seen and it was 2nd Amendment tax free weekend here in Louisiana.   I carried that ad around for days.  Mentally I was in full possession of that rifle.  The ad expired, I tossed it in the trash and the cash, not the rifle is in my safe.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on September 08, 2017, 02:29:46 PM
Thanks for the tip CJ, my wife is home and only runs the vac while she's there, so we should be OK.  She quite enjoys Robbie's company as he roams around.

I spent years squeezing pennies so I'm not suddenly out blowing wads of cash, but I am loosening up.  Life is just getting too short for me to keep stressing out over some of these things (as well as stressing the marriage), especially since a little sharpening of the pencil around tax time, moving investments to lower fee versions of the same thing, nailing my FSA amounts, maintaining good health, etc. are the areas where the real money is being won and lost these days...  Even with that said, we have gone pretty far down the list of "priority purchases", so we are back in a mode of over 50% savings rate.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: wannabe-stache on September 15, 2017, 08:34:01 AM
Don't mind me.  Still in my 40's and I'm being all winey pants about 2 million NW.  Facepunch, double facepunch.  It's all good. 

Actually had to meditate about buying a new leaf blower a few days ago.   It was  $150 at Lowes $165 with tax, found it for $125 at Amazon with no tax or shipping.  WTF!  I'm a dang millionaire, hell technically a multimillionaire on the lowest rung.  I'm debating a leaf blower purchase.   You people have ruined my life.

This is exactly what I am dealing with.  We are in Miami and post-Irma (and post-telling my landscaper he wasn't needed anymore), i realized i really need a rake and a leaf blower.  so i went online to find used items.  i didn't find MMM until 4 months ago, otherwise i would have trotted over to home depot and bought brand new stuff without even thinking about it.

with that, i am jumping into this thread.  DW and i are 34 and 37 respectively and due to high incomes and, despite our below average savings rates, we have $1.6M invested and $2.3M with the home equity.  if i had found MMM 3 years ago i have no doubt we would have way more than $1.6M invested...
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: savedough on September 15, 2017, 12:34:44 PM
Disclaimer: I don't belong in this thread at all.

EXCEPT - I feel that I am many of you 20 years ago, plugging along as an engineer barely making 6 figures, agonizing over purchases, banking my savings in tax-advantaged accounts and accumulating years for a pension.  We are thisclose to $1M net worth and I am 35 (for another two months) counting our home equity which isn't much since we live in a decently priced home.

This makes me happy to see that if my husband and I stay the course, we will make it. 

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: begood on September 15, 2017, 12:38:05 PM
I'm having a little mini freakout today, friends. I check our cash flow monthly but our investments only quarterly. Today's the day. Our investments (taxable + rollover IRA) are up $172K in 2017. One hundred and seventy-two THOUSAND dollars. In nine months.

The extended bull market is clearly driving that growth, and I am alllllll too aware that it can and will drop at some point, possibly soon! October seems like a common drop month. But is this how compounding works? The more $$, the faster the growth? Even though it suffers the vagaries of the market? If so, how stupid am I not to have understood that before?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: mm1970 on September 15, 2017, 02:31:48 PM
Haha Bateaux.

I think the issue is that this thread is almost the antithesis of MMM. If one is frugal why would you need more than $2M.

In any case, accumulating more than $2M either requires a lot of time or a very high income.

I would presume that most people who have accumulated more than $2M are already in there 50s, so not the core audience of MMM. Only a small percentage of MMM posters are doctors, lawyers, investment bankers, CEOs etc who could earn there way to $2M at a young age.

A few will have got very lucky with their finances (like me), by taking risks when young that paid off over the years.

I know that there are plenty of wealthy MMM posters, but most are FIRED and don't give a hoot about any race towards even greater wealth.

Eh...We are engineers.  So, high income but not very high income.  Frugal.  HCOL area.
Not in our 50s yet.  Close.  Prob hit $2M a couple of years ago.
Two kids in elementary school.

I figured that we would prob be typical of people on this thread, no?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on September 15, 2017, 03:04:29 PM
Haha Bateaux.

I think the issue is that this thread is almost the antithesis of MMM. If one is frugal why would you need more than $2M.

In any case, accumulating more than $2M either requires a lot of time or a very high income.

I would presume that most people who have accumulated more than $2M are already in there 50s, so not the core audience of MMM. Only a small percentage of MMM posters are doctors, lawyers, investment bankers, CEOs etc who could earn there way to $2M at a young age.

A few will have got very lucky with their finances (like me), by taking risks when young that paid off over the years.

I know that there are plenty of wealthy MMM posters, but most are FIRED and don't give a hoot about any race towards even greater wealth.

Eh...We are engineers.  So, high income but not very high income.  Frugal.  HCOL area.
Not in our 50s yet.  Close.  Prob hit $2M a couple of years ago.
Two kids in elementary school.

I figured that we would prob be typical of people on this thread, no?

Yep...no doctors, etc...here either.   Not in our 50s yet either.  Two kids - one started college this year and one is in high school.
 
The definition of 'high income' can be very subjective..and vastly different depending on where you live ( HCOL vs LCOL, etc.. ).  Having kids ( and number of kids ) can also have a huge impact on the capability to save.

I think 'frugal but not minimalist, and being persistent' is the common thread here.   We have been saving slow and steady for 20+ years.  We don't buy many expensive 'toys' like boats, campers, expensive cars, cabins, and all that other crap.  It still boggles my mind to see how many people buy these 'toys' and clearly cannot afford them.  I think many people seem to think they are entitled to the 'stuff' and it often seems to get them into financial trouble.  I really love it when people complain about not having nearly enough to retire....while driving around fancy vehicles and such. 

BTW - I added 'cabins' above because quite a few people in my neck of the woods have them...and *always* seem to complain about how expensive they are to maintain.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: honeybbq on September 15, 2017, 04:39:39 PM
Itchy feet I just read about your biking vacation.   Can't wait to do that.  Maybe we'll meet you guys in person out there soon.  My wife does her second Ironman next month.   All that training would be put to great use.  I'm 49 and have no plans to be working at 51.

I've done a couple halves. Some day I will do my full. Thank you  (From me) for supporting your wife! Spouses make all the difference in the tri-journey. :)

I feel inadequate in this thread, since I have to throw in personal real estate to belong.  Glad you're all here, gives me a target to aim for.

I belong if I count my house equity.

I just turned 40. Medical fields. High earner that tries not to spend too much.

Waiting for that 3 to become  4.....
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on September 15, 2017, 10:06:25 PM

Eh...We are engineers.  So, high income but not very high income.  Frugal.  HCOL area.
Not in our 50s yet.  Close.  Prob hit $2M a couple of years ago.
Two kids in elementary school.

I figured that we would prob be typical of people on this thread, no?

Yep, 40 & 45 here. Accountant and school teacher.

It took me about 20 years of working (DW 14 years)  to accumulate the first million, and only about 4 years for the 2nd.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on September 16, 2017, 07:41:43 PM
Itchy feet I just read about your biking vacation.   Can't wait to do that.  Maybe we'll meet you guys in person out there soon.  My wife does her second Ironman next month.   All that training would be put to great use.  I'm 49 and have no plans to be working at 51.

I've done a couple halves. Some day I will do my full. Thank you  (From me) for supporting your wife! Spouses make all the difference in the tri-journey. :)

I feel inadequate in this thread, since I have to throw in personal real estate to belong.  Glad you're all here, gives me a target to aim for.

I belong if I count my house equity.

I just turned 40. Medical fields. High earner that tries not to spend too much.

Waiting for that 3 to become  4.....

I'm debating traing for a 1/2 Ironman next Spring.  My wife runs her 2nd full in Chattanooga next weekend.  Good luck with your events.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on September 16, 2017, 09:01:05 PM
I really need to find something to train for...... and people to train with. I am hopeless left to my own devices. Full of excuses
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on September 17, 2017, 08:14:38 AM
The 1/2 Ironman I'm considering is going to be held in Puerto Rico.  They are under the gun of Hurricane Maria which may hit them with 120 mph winds.   
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Secretly Saving on September 17, 2017, 09:15:37 AM
Haha Bateaux.

I think the issue is that this thread is almost the antithesis of MMM. If one is frugal why would you need more than $2M.

In any case, accumulating more than $2M either requires a lot of time or a very high income.

I would presume that most people who have accumulated more than $2M are already in there 50s, so not the core audience of MMM. Only a small percentage of MMM posters are doctors, lawyers, investment bankers, CEOs etc who could earn there way to $2M at a young age.

A few will have got very lucky with their finances (like me), by taking risks when young that paid off over the years.

I know that there are plenty of wealthy MMM posters, but most are FIRED and don't give a hoot about any race towards even greater wealth.

Eh...We are engineers.  So, high income but not very high income.  Frugal.  HCOL area.
Not in our 50s yet.  Close.  Prob hit $2M a couple of years ago.
Two kids in elementary school.

I figured that we would prob be typical of people on this thread, no?

Yep.
Engineer and teacher.
30s
Kids in elem school.
2m+ invested plus Real Estate
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: OthalaFehu on September 17, 2017, 10:03:11 AM
Just crested 2M in assets but have 440k in liabilities dragging me back down. I am 43, so will keep plugging away. Zero to 1 was way harder than 1 to 2. I keep data and charts on all aspects of my financial picture. It became so much of a hobby, I started sharing it all with the public. Viva the FIRE Revolution!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on September 17, 2017, 11:50:29 AM
If the bull keeps running (big IF) we will need a $3M to $4M thread soon..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: bigchrisb on September 17, 2017, 02:59:13 PM
Haha Bateaux.

I think the issue is that this thread is almost the antithesis of MMM. If one is frugal why would you need more than $2M.

In any case, accumulating more than $2M either requires a lot of time or a very high income.

I would presume that most people who have accumulated more than $2M are already in there 50s, so not the core audience of MMM. Only a small percentage of MMM posters are doctors, lawyers, investment bankers, CEOs etc who could earn there way to $2M at a young age.

A few will have got very lucky with their finances (like me), by taking risks when young that paid off over the years.

I know that there are plenty of wealthy MMM posters, but most are FIRED and don't give a hoot about any race towards even greater wealth.

Eh...We are engineers.  So, high income but not very high income.  Frugal.  HCOL area.
Not in our 50s yet.  Close.  Prob hit $2M a couple of years ago.
Two kids in elementary school.

I figured that we would prob be typical of people on this thread, no?

Yep.
Engineer and teacher.
30s
Kids in elem school.
2m+ invested plus Real Estate

35 Engineer here. Self made through investment, both listed stocks and private businesses (invested in and grew my former employer before selling the company).  My wife is a public servant, but we have not combined finances.  If we had, we would be in the race to 4m. 

Mostly invested in stocks with a bit of leverage.  The first million took 7 years, the second 3.5, and the next 900k was under a year.  I always knew the theory that it would turn exponential, but I'm still a bit disbelieving of the reality.   
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on September 17, 2017, 08:29:20 PM
900K in 1 year. Wowsers!!!

2017 started off super strong for me, but has faded. I think my stash growth this year will be less than 2015 and 2016.

I too have got to here rolling the dice on a bit of leverage. I just figured worst case was that I pay back the loan over an extended period. Best case the inclvestment returns beat the cost of debt and I get a bit of a leg up. I got a bit lucky, although that is only a part of the story.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: honeybbq on September 18, 2017, 12:48:29 PM
The 1/2 Ironman I'm considering is going to be held in Puerto Rico.  They are under the gun of Hurricane Maria which may hit them with 120 mph winds.

Why that particular half? It does sound fun to travel. My tri group is all doing Costa Rica this Nov. (it's a full though)

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: honeybbq on September 18, 2017, 12:49:02 PM
I really need to find something to train for...... and people to train with. I am hopeless left to my own devices. Full of excuses

Do you have a tri group?

I've found the best way to get my ass in gear is to sign up for a race! :)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on September 19, 2017, 02:20:24 PM
Itchyfeet - HoneyBBQ we're clogging up the thread with all the nice things we can do once were into the 7 figures 😁   
Anyway, probably going to wait for the 2019 Puerto Rico Ironman unless Maria spares them somehow.  We could do another location.  Have fun.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Jill P on October 13, 2017, 10:17:32 PM
Don't mind me.  Still in my 40's and I'm being all winey pants about 2 million NW.  Facepunch, double facepunch.  It's all good. 

Actually had to meditate about buying a new leaf blower a few days ago.   It was  $150 at Lowes $165 with tax, found it for $125 at Amazon with no tax or shipping.  WTF!  I'm a dang millionaire, hell technically a multimillionaire on the lowest rung.  I'm debating a leaf blower purchase.   You people have ruined my life.

Your post gave me a chuckle!   I hope you got the Amazon one.

Yes, we're among the older folks in the MMM family, but frugal living and careful planning is what got us here, right?  We're past the 3M mark, mostly with our multiple, nearly paid-for, rentals.   There are lots of us "oldies" who find kindred spirits here at MMM, even though we may have overbuilt the empire or worked for longer than you younger people intend to.   To be frugal and build a good future was the plan.  I'm proud of it, because it wasn't easy.  No silver spoons here...  My mom and I were laughing earlier today about the time when I was so poor that there was no toilet paper. 

My old joke is that you can either be rich or look rich, but it takes an awful lot of money to do both.  It's the Millionaire Next Door idea.   Now I'm the millionaire next door. Me... a multimillionaire!  Wow!   As I sit here in my thrift store outfit, sifting through rental apps on a rental that I'll be getting $500 more a month on since the last folks moved out.  The rent was low, and is still on the low end in our HCOL area.   That's a $6000 a year raise, this year and forever after,  and I didn't have to do a thing.  My plan is to snowball my way to paying off the last couple of mortgage loans on the rentals.  I should have the last 3 paid off within 3-4 years.  Life is fine!   
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on October 14, 2017, 03:16:34 AM
There are many technical types here.  They keeps spread sheets on how many rolls of toilet paper and tubes of toothpaste they use a month.  They calculate Alpha, Beta and several other Greek letters representing strategies I haven't a clue about.  We spent less than we earned and invested the rest.  More of the JL Collins, "A simple Path to Wealth" approach.  Personally I love the Mint app.  It tells me what I'm worth almost instantly.  Even reminds me when I spend.  It just told me that I wrote a $4200 check.  Told me I don't usually spend that much, what's up?  Deposit for the new roof on the house Mint, it's all good.
Like many of us here, we'd already achieved a million or more in NW before finding the MMM blog.  I've learned so much since coming here however.   Those technical types, glad they share their knowledge.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Mr Griz on October 14, 2017, 05:42:42 AM
Weíre about 6 months from FIRE and Iíve been simplifying our various investment and bank accounts. Each one tells a story and itís been interesting to relive all the financial blunders weíve made over the years. Despite all, the stache is well above $2M. Itís truly been as straightforward as JL Collins & Mr. MM describe it.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: bigchrisb on October 17, 2017, 02:13:02 AM


35 Engineer here. Self made through investment, both listed stocks and private businesses (invested in and grew my former employer before selling the company).  My wife is a public servant, but we have not combined finances.  If we had, we would be in the race to 4m. 

Mostly invested in stocks with a bit of leverage.  The first million took 7 years, the second 3.5, and the next 900k was under a year.  I always knew the theory that it would turn exponential, but I'm still a bit disbelieving of the reality.

So, this month I started a trial fire with 2.9m. 10 days post job and the rallying markets have done enough to bump me over the $3m Mark.  Aside from staying the investment course, it was all down to what the market did. 

Being in a draw down phase for at least a couple of years I expect the accumulation pace to slow down now.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on October 17, 2017, 07:17:54 AM
35 Engineer here. Self made through investment, both listed stocks and private businesses (invested in and grew my former employer before selling the company).  My wife is a public servant, but we have not combined finances.  If we had, we would be in the race to 4m. 

Mostly invested in stocks with a bit of leverage.  The first million took 7 years, the second 3.5, and the next 900k was under a year.  I always knew the theory that it would turn exponential, but I'm still a bit disbelieving of the reality.
So, this month I started a trial fire with 2.9m. 10 days post job and the rallying markets have done enough to bump me over the $3m Mark.  Aside from staying the investment course, it was all down to what the market did. 

Being in a draw down phase for at least a couple of years I expect the accumulation pace to slow down now.
Congratulations, bigchrisb!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on October 17, 2017, 09:57:50 AM
^^^^ Excellent^^^^^
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on October 17, 2017, 10:42:02 PM
Is there a race from $3M to $4M thread?  If not, maybe bigchrisb can start it! 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Jill P on October 21, 2017, 09:46:07 PM
Maybe a thread title change: "Race from $2M and beyond..."
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on October 22, 2017, 07:36:56 AM
Hehe.. this is starting to sound like one of those philosophical discussions.. Like "How much is too much?"...:)

Or even "how much is enough?"

My "number" is $5m.. or roughly double what I have now..;)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on October 22, 2017, 10:04:52 AM
I would never say $5 million USD is too much.

DW and I could certainly find a way to spend it.

But for us, the tipping point at which the extra spending power isn't worth the extra days spent in an office falls short of $5M.

About half of that number will do for us 2.5M USD= ~ 3.3M AUD. yep enough 👍 .

Maybe I will have some kind of encore career that will see us get us a little closer to $5M. who knows.

(I am talking today's $ above. I am sure one day my stash will be $5million, but it will be worth half as much as $5m today.)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: mjr on October 22, 2017, 05:13:51 PM
Ticked over $2m ex-PPOR today.  I think my race has been run, I don't see how I can possibly stay working until the $3m mark, but at least I can join this race in a casual saunter.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: concealed stache on October 22, 2017, 07:28:18 PM
Ticked over $2m ex-PPOR today.  I think my race has been run, I don't see how I can possibly stay working until the $3m mark, but at least I can join this race in a casual saunter.

I find myself in the same boat - although I don't run complete numbers during the month, it's quite clear that I've rolled over into 2.x territory this month - of course that could all change by month end. Given that I've handed in my notice I expect to be riding the local train for the next gains instead of the express it's been of late.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on October 22, 2017, 09:28:43 PM
Ticked over $2m ex-PPOR today.  I think my race has been run, I don't see how I can possibly stay working until the $3m mark, but at least I can join this race in a casual saunter.

The $2.5m I am talking about above is really $1.8M plus PPOR.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on October 22, 2017, 09:47:30 PM
Ticked over $2m ex-PPOR today.  I think my race has been run, I don't see how I can possibly stay working until the $3m mark, but at least I can join this race in a casual saunter.

The $2.5m I am talking about above is really $1.8M plus PPOR.
Principal Place of Residence? Possible Place of Refuge? Perinatal Periods of Risk?

Are your numbers in USD or AUS?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: mjr on October 23, 2017, 12:18:03 AM
Aussie dollars, of course.  We can't spend US dollars here :-)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on October 23, 2017, 07:55:29 AM
Haha. I'll happily spend some more USD in your part of the world if ever I get the chance to return. But seriously, what the hell is PPOR?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on October 23, 2017, 08:00:10 AM
Principal Place of Residence?  Potential Prodigious Onset of Revenue? 

And 2M AUS is 'merely' 1.56M USD, you've not even made it to the starting line :)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on October 23, 2017, 12:27:51 PM
Yes, PPOR is an Australian taxation acronym for the house you live in, and get a capital gains tax exemption for. Principal Place of Residence. Should just call it home like everyone else I suppose.

I didn't join this thread till I passed $2M USD, which occurred several months back when the USD dropped v the AUD.

With the USD slowly regaining ground there is a small risk I could drop below $2M USD once more.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: wannabe-stache on October 31, 2017, 02:35:49 PM
Ticked over $2m ex-PPOR today.  I think my race has been run, I don't see how I can possibly stay working until the $3m mark, but at least I can join this race in a casual saunter.

The $2.5m I am talking about above is really $1.8M plus PPOR.

Same here. $2.65M with home equity. so close...

edited to add that i am sitting in my office wearing loafers i bought at a thrift store, ate lunch at my desk and took the train to work today. what a nice day.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on October 31, 2017, 11:22:33 PM
Ticked over $2m ex-PPOR today.  I think my race has been run, I don't see how I can possibly stay working until the $3m mark, but at least I can join this race in a casual saunter.

The $2.5m I am talking about above is really $1.8M plus PPOR.

Same here. $2.65M with home equity. so close...

edited to add that i am sitting in my office wearing loafers i bought at a thrift store, ate lunch at my desk and took the train to work today. what a nice day.

Not trying to make waves, but since I'm doing well on NW already, just being at work seems to give me the liberty to buy a fresh $5 salad most days (when I have to buy for myself - most times I have lunch meetings) and splurge a little on good shoes (https://www.olukai.com/mens/shoes.html). 

To each their own, but none of these things seems to move the needle much for me either way, other than knowing I am eating healthier and taking good care of my gait.  Low stress job, so I'm OK with working as long as they'll have me.  And it looks like I'll get some plum international travel in 2018...
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: wannabe-stache on November 01, 2017, 07:16:10 AM

[/quote]

Same here. $2.65M with home equity. so close...

edited to add that i am sitting in my office wearing loafers i bought at a thrift store, ate lunch at my desk and took the train to work today. what a nice day.
[/quote]

Not trying to make waves, but since I'm doing well on NW already, just being at work seems to give me the liberty to buy a fresh $5 salad most days (when I have to buy for myself - most times I have lunch meetings) and splurge a little on good shoes (https://www.olukai.com/mens/shoes.html). 

To each their own, but none of these things seems to move the needle much for me either way, other than knowing I am eating healthier and taking good care of my gait.  Low stress job, so I'm OK with working as long as they'll have me.  And it looks like I'll get some plum international travel in 2018...
[/quote]

No worries, like you i tend not to begrudge others' choices. i buy a diet coke every day for lunch and my wife and i still occasionally treat ourselves to good wine from our napa valley wineries.  that's the refreshing part of this particular thread, it's less dogmatic than most.

what MMM and others have opened my eyes to was seeing value in purchases. i didn't really value my BMW, or cable TV, or my landscaper, so i cut them out. but you can take my pinot or my diet coke from my cold, dead hands.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on November 01, 2017, 10:37:41 AM
Ah, you guys should loosen up and live a little!  (I say, then realize I'm wearing sneakers that one of my kids got sick of and pants inherited from my dad)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on November 01, 2017, 11:48:15 AM
Ticked over $2m ex-PPOR today.  I think my race has been run, I don't see how I can possibly stay working until the $3m mark, but at least I can join this race in a casual saunter.

The $2.5m I am talking about above is really $1.8M plus PPOR.

Same here. $2.65M with home equity. so close...

edited to add that i am sitting in my office wearing loafers i bought at a thrift store, ate lunch at my desk and took the train to work today. what a nice day.
HeHe, just wait until you're FIRE.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: honeyfill on November 01, 2017, 10:06:46 PM
Sitting at 2.35M here. 2.5 with home equity.  We are 60/58 and retiring some time in the next 10 months so its highly unlikely we reach 3m, but its fun to track it and to watch others go for the big 3.0. We 've hit our number and built u a couple of years of cash reserves so we really don't need any more.  Dropped savings to just hit the max match on the 401k.  Now just paying down some debt, and building up a cash reserve to pay for a kitchen remodel and a semi-luxury retirement celebration vacation in France. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on November 01, 2017, 11:05:09 PM
Very nice..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on November 02, 2017, 12:07:50 AM
Sitting at 2.35M here. 2.5 with home equity.  We are 60/58 and retiring some time in the next 10 months so its highly unlikely we reach 3m, but its fun to track it and to watch others go for the big 3.0. We 've hit our number and built u a couple of years of cash reserves so we really don't need any more.  Dropped savings to just hit the max match on the 401k.  Now just paying down some debt, and building up a cash reserve to pay for a kitchen remodel and a semi-luxury retirement celebration vacation in France.
Okay, I admit it, I am confused. You have only 150k in home equity and you're paying down "some debt". You have 2.5M, but you're waiting up to ten more months to retire? Something's  missing here. More info please?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on November 02, 2017, 01:02:34 AM
I assumed they were still paying off the mortgage.. But the $2.35M was the net value of cash plus investments.. yes?

As to the 10 months.. Clearly love their jobs way more than I did..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on November 02, 2017, 06:46:42 AM
Seems reasonable to me.  60/58, kids are likely out of the house.  Sounds like a mortgage is still in place but perhaps they're part of the "never pay your mortgage off" crowd (nothing wrong with that).  At $2.35M, they could be in a place where they realize that they are FI but don't want to stop working yet for whatever reason.  That's fine too. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: honeyfill on November 03, 2017, 04:54:51 PM
Seems like there are some questions out there about our plans, so I thought I would give some more details.  I am not a true mustachian , I only discovered the site a few months ago. We had built up a nice nest egg of 1.7M in 2016 by maxing out the 401k since the first day they were offered.  But while we never wasted money , we spent a lot.  Lots of credit card debt , paid for daughterís tuition, lots of nice things. So we had no money in taxable accounts, and I did not want to take money out of the 401ks. 
So we always thought retirement was sometime in the future and didnít really plan for it. Plus I am an engineer and I do like my job.
Then I got an inheritance, 500k. It took a few months to for everything to really settle in mentally but I realized maybe I could retire. 
I figured the first thing to do was to get my debt in order.  Refinanced the house at 3.5% 270K loan, 150k equity on a 420k house.  Put all the credit cards on 0% interest.  Then started to blast through the debt.  I decided to start pulling 7 k a month out of our investments. Paid off our 2nd mortgage , paid off a ton of student debt, paid off lots of credit cards.  So why wait 10 more months?  Partly one more year, partly more debt.  21k on wifeís car 2.99%.  7 k on credit cards 0% , 7 k left on daughters student debt 4%, Thatís 5 months.  Then we want to remodel the kitchen and take a luxury retirement celebration vacation. I figure that is 35k and 5 months more.  The final complications are that my in-laws have moved in with us and my daughter has health problems , which have prevented her from working since the summer.  Fortunately all their health issues seem to have stabilized. Our daughter is back on her feet and sending out resumeís.  My inlaws have set up a support system and our not really a financial drain. They pay all the medical and care givers , we just kick in a place to live, food and shelter.  The 10 months will give us a chance to mentally prepare, get our spending down to something more mustache like and to figure out how we handle health care between now and medicare.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: soccerluvof4 on November 05, 2017, 07:13:12 AM
With my house I'm 2.9 and some change maybe could also get a few more dollars for the house. W/O house 2.6 and some change but its been kinda stagnant for me the last 6 months +/- as I have spent more than the budget because of the market rise. Remodeling etc.. things i know I would need to do down the line so I have taken out more than my normal withdrawal rate would be.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on November 11, 2017, 11:18:36 AM
Thanks for filling in some of the blanks, honeyfill. (Hee!)

Due to a bout of insomnia last night, I read through some of the lower goal races. I noticed a lot of people post updates monthly. Their passion and zeal is fun to see/remember.

This group seems to be a lot more relaxed, which is kind of a reward unto itself. Up to a certain point, it's a race. After that, it's a coast.

In news of the bizarre, a house in the neighborhood, but not nearly as new or as nice as ours, sold for $1.26M on 10/24/17. Zillow now says it's worth  $1,277,205, for an increase of $59,965 in 18 days!! They still think ours is "only" worth  $1.34M. Yawn. Whatever.*

I think I'll go make some scratch waffles with fresh berries for breakfast/brunch in my garage sale purchased waffle iron, then head over to my favorite thrift store. I just discovered that all clothing is half off on Saturdays. Whoop!

*I just found this on Zillow. "When it comes to unique homes (e.g., luxury mansions, unusual designs) we are less accurate in our Zestimates." No kidding.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on November 11, 2017, 11:33:24 AM
Thanks for filling in some of the blanks, honeyfill. (Hee!)

Due to a bout of insomnia last night, I read through some of the lower goal races. I noticed a lot of people post updates monthly. Their passion and zeal is fun to see/remember.

This group seems to be a lot more relaxed, which is kind of a reward unto itself. Up to a certain point, it's a race. After that, it's a coast.

I am not particularly wanting to coast to my number and to FIRE. But, with my NW now above $2M, I can't really drive it up fast by saving more. The growth of the stash these days is more reliant on returns than my savings efforts. I just have to wait for time to do its magic, and I will be where I want to be. In any case, I do update my progress on a monthly basis on the 2019 thread.

I should hit $3M Aussie pesos by the end of 2018, but that is only 2.3M USD.... def not racing to $3M USD.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on November 11, 2017, 11:45:06 AM
Maybe you're not experiencing as much of a bull market as the US is? Also, as you approach the equivalent of $2-3M USD, perhaps you'll feel a little differently. However, "just...wait[ing] for time to do its magic" kinda sounds like we're talking about the same thing.

I admit, I don't follow the cohort threads too closely, because I hit FIRE "too early"* Such a FWP!

*ETA: To clarify, there's no such thing as retiring too early. The cohorts didn't begin until I was out the corporate door, is what I meant. If someone wants to start one for 2012 retroactively,  I'll play along. Maybe ;-)

And you refrigerator people: get over it! The newer models are so much more energy efficient, they will pay for themselves in time. As long as you didn't buy some crazy-ass thing with Bluetooth, go optimize somewhere else, (Frank) and stop looking at that new shiny thing in your kitchen. No time for guilt here!!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on November 13, 2017, 11:42:53 AM
Stop talking about my fridge.. I already feel guilty sitting here looking at it..:)

It is nice not to have to repack the frigging freezer everytime we go shopping though!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Jill P on November 13, 2017, 10:00:54 PM
I have a new fancy pants fridge.  We got by on an avocado shade one till it died, then a teeny full sized one that fit in our teeny house and came with us when we moved.  There was about an extra foot of space that it didn't fill up in the kitchen fridge cubby.  It was white and everything else in the kitchen was black.  I know it shouldn't matter, but it did look stupid.  We had it about 6 years.    Now we splurged (after bargain hunting at Home Depot, on sale, using our 5% off cards,).  The fridge is great.  The French doors allow you to easily see everything in there, and the drawer is a great invention and leaves the cold air in the main part undisturbed.  It even makes our ice.  Face punch, right?  When I use the "cost per use" analysis, it was a good purchase.  We do use it everyday, after all... 

Now, back to my regularly scheduled thrift store shopping.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Secretly Saving on November 14, 2017, 06:27:31 AM
We just got a new one too.  Our old one was rusting through the front of it, but it was working so why bother changing something that still served it's purpose?  New fridge is fancy pants -- husband loves all the extra ice.  I kinda miss the old one.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on November 14, 2017, 10:07:24 AM
We rent a place that came with a fridge, dishwasher, washing machine etc, so no white goods shopping for us these days.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: markbike528CBX on November 14, 2017, 02:55:03 PM
...big snip here, I find it is more obvious to markbike528 the reader to snip than to bold key points.......

So, this month I started a trial fire with 2.9m. 10 days post job and the rallying markets have done enough to bump me over the $3m Mark.   .... snip....

On one hand it is nice to see someone who's finished this race taking a "trial" FIRE, as I'm in the same place on being tentative FIREing.
But on the other hand, good golly bigcrhisb.. you should have been done long ago.     

I can imagine people on this board wondering the same thing about me, even though I've just started this race, many others at lower NW have FIREd long ago.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on November 14, 2017, 07:27:02 PM
Hey everybody.  Looks like a lot of ya have migrated here from the 1 to 2.  I've been having some fun the last few weeks and even spending some money.  I went on a fishing trip with some friends, we even caught some.   Flew down to Mexico with the wife and another couple.  We did a lot of cool stuff.  Had a new roof put on the house.  We even sent some cash off for storm victims.  After all that, there's more in the bank than before.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on November 14, 2017, 08:32:24 PM
Hey everybody.  Looks like a lot of ya have migrated here from the 1 to 2.  I've been having some fun the last few weeks and even spending some money.  I went on a fishing trip with some friends, we even caught some.   Flew down to Mexico with the wife and another couple.  We did a lot of cool stuff.  Had a new roof put on the house.  We even sent some cash off for storm victims.  After all that, there's more in the bank than before.

Great job.. And there was me "scared" to look at my accounts after the massive pullback we have just had..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on November 14, 2017, 09:32:58 PM
...big snip here, I find it is more obvious to markbike528 the reader to snip than to bold key points.......

So, this month I started a trial fire with 2.9m. 10 days post job and the rallying markets have done enough to bump me over the $3m Mark.   .... snip....

On one hand it is nice to see someone who's finished this race taking a "trial" FIRE, as I'm in the same place on being tentative FIREing.
But on the other hand, good golly bigcrhisb.. you should have been done long ago.     

I can imagine people on this board wondering the same thing about me, even though I've just started this race, many others at lower NW have FIREd long ago.

Personal finance is indeed extremely personal.

There can be no fixed rule about what is the right amount as there are so many variables that are different for each person.

Many on these boards say ďif I had more money I wouldnít know what to do with itĒ. I donít have this problem. My imagination is pretty active.

So for me deciding what is ďenoughĒ is a constant weighing up of what I am sacrificing by being a wage slave versus what Iíd be sacrificing by FIREing today. I certainly have enough stash to FIRE, but I am still not quite at my personal tipping point where I am willing to lock myself into the lifestyle that my stash would finance, when a couple of years of extra work will provide a few extra options which seem worth working for today. That being said, if I lost my job I am not sure Iíd bother looking for a replacement.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on November 15, 2017, 03:53:18 AM
/\

We're pretty much living now at a level below what our stach could support.  Nobody says you have to live on less in retirement than in working years.  We've missed out on a lot during our working years.  We we're saving tens of thousands of dollars and working overtime while others were out spending money cruising the seas, buying new cars and fancy houses.  We're still working a few more years.  Now back of the napkin math says we're gaining about 10k a year in potential spending at 4% withdrawl every year we work.  The current number we could spend if FIRED is about 75k at 4%.  2018 85k, 2019 95k, 2020 105k  These are very rough and conservative numbers but you see the progression.   The 1 million stash level is where you can be frugal and make it, the 2 million stash level is a tipping point. We have the choice to live at the 1 million stash level and have the other million working for us.  We can have cheap years and bonus years.  Most likely our stash will grow into legacy funds after reaching 2 million, certainly once the 3 million level is reached.   
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on November 15, 2017, 07:43:03 AM
/\

We're pretty much living now at a level below what our stach could support.  Nobody says you have to live on less in retirement than in working years.  We've missed out on a lot during our working years.  We we're saving tens of thousands of dollars and working overtime while others were out spending money cruising the seas, buying new cars and fancy houses.  We're still working a few more years.  Now back of the napkin math says we're gaining about 10k a year in potential spending at 4% withdrawl every year we work.  The current number we could spend if FIRED is about 75k at 4%.  2018 85k, 2019 95k, 2020 105k  These are very rough and conservative numbers but you see the progression.   The 1 million stash level is where you can be frugal and make it, the 2 million stash level is a tipping point. We have the choice to live at the 1 million stash level and have the other million working for us.  We can have cheap years and bonus years.  Most likely our stash will grow into legacy funds after reaching 2 million, certainly once the 3 million level is reached.

Yep, I agree that the 2M point ( in investable assets ) is a tipping point.  However, what keeps us up at night is the ongoing healthcare debacle.  We have a family member with significant chronic health issues and feel that we need to save an additional 'significant amount' just to cover the potential uncertainty of future healthcare.   

I think healthcare is one of the major influencing factors that keeps people from FIREing...even with a large stashe.  I wish we could at least get some stability..but not gonna happen in this political environment. 


Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: begood on November 15, 2017, 07:51:10 AM
/\

We're pretty much living now at a level below what our stach could support.  Nobody says you have to live on less in retirement than in working years.  We've missed out on a lot during our working years.  We we're saving tens of thousands of dollars and working overtime while others were out spending money cruising the seas, buying new cars and fancy houses.  We're still working a few more years.  Now back of the napkin math says we're gaining about 10k a year in potential spending at 4% withdrawl every year we work.  The current number we could spend if FIRED is about 75k at 4%.  2018 85k, 2019 95k, 2020 105k  These are very rough and conservative numbers but you see the progression.   The 1 million stash level is where you can be frugal and make it, the 2 million stash level is a tipping point. We have the choice to live at the 1 million stash level and have the other million working for us.  We can have cheap years and bonus years.  Most likely our stash will grow into legacy funds after reaching 2 million, certainly once the 3 million level is reached.

Yep, I agree that the 2M point ( in investable assets ) is a tipping point.  However, what keeps us up at night is the ongoing healthcare debacle.  We have a family member with significant chronic health issues and feel that we need to save an additional 'significant amount' just to cover the potential uncertainty of future healthcare.   

I think healthcare is one of the major influencing factors that keeps people from FIREing...even with a large stashe.  I wish we could at least get some stability..but not gonna happen in this political environment.

Me too. My mister and I both have pre-existing conditions based on the most recent list that circulated. Without employer-supported insurance or some ACA-like insurance that's required to cover us, we could easily bankrupt ourselves with medical costs. To me, it's the splash of cold water on the face of FIRE. I don't Debbie Downer here because it's such a place of beautiful optimism, but I just can't get beyond the thought: "What if I can't get health care?"
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on November 15, 2017, 11:13:28 AM
Same here.  Any FIRE date prior to mid 2019 is not an option.  We have a cancer survivor son on my employer insurance who will be 26 in 2019.  Beyond that, FIRE may still be a dream if we must help with his healthcare costs.  Without the ACA we'd be in big trouble.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: bigchrisb on November 15, 2017, 03:08:34 PM
/\

We're pretty much living now at a level below what our stach could support.  Nobody says you have to live on less in retirement than in working years.  We've missed out on a lot during our working years.  We we're saving tens of thousands of dollars and working overtime while others were out spending money cruising the seas, buying new cars and fancy houses.  We're still working a few more years.  Now back of the napkin math says we're gaining about 10k a year in potential spending at 4% withdrawl every year we work.  The current number we could spend if FIRED is about 75k at 4%.  2018 85k, 2019 95k, 2020 105k  These are very rough and conservative numbers but you see the progression.   The 1 million stash level is where you can be frugal and make it, the 2 million stash level is a tipping point. We have the choice to live at the 1 million stash level and have the other million working for us.  We can have cheap years and bonus years.  Most likely our stash will grow into legacy funds after reaching 2 million, certainly once the 3 million level is reached.

Yep, I agree that the 2M point ( in investable assets ) is a tipping point.  However, what keeps us up at night is the ongoing healthcare debacle.  We have a family member with significant chronic health issues and feel that we need to save an additional 'significant amount' just to cover the potential uncertainty of future healthcare.   

I think healthcare is one of the major influencing factors that keeps people from FIREing...even with a large stashe.  I wish we could at least get some stability..but not gonna happen in this political environment.

Agree 100% with healthcare being an issue.  I have a degenerative, progressive condition which will have increasing impacts over life - hence the extra padding.  I'm lucky to live in a country with good public healthcare (Australia) - its not quite universal, but good enough for intents and purposes.  However, beyond the direct healthcare costs, having something that will probably prevent you from going back to work in a failure scenario in ~20 years time is a strong incentive to pad the stash a bit more,  both to reduce failure probability, and to allow for an increased spending on disability care if needed.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: bigchrisb on November 15, 2017, 03:31:40 PM
...big snip here, I find it is more obvious to markbike528 the reader to snip than to bold key points.......

So, this month I started a trial fire with 2.9m. 10 days post job and the rallying markets have done enough to bump me over the $3m Mark.   .... snip....

On one hand it is nice to see someone who's finished this race taking a "trial" FIRE, as I'm in the same place on being tentative FIREing.
But on the other hand, good golly bigcrhisb.. you should have been done long ago.     

I can imagine people on this board wondering the same thing about me, even though I've just started this race, many others at lower NW have FIREd long ago.

Personal finance is indeed extremely personal.

There can be no fixed rule about what is the right amount as there are so many variables that are different for each person.

Many on these boards say ďif I had more money I wouldnít know what to do with itĒ. I donít have this problem. My imagination is pretty active.

So for me deciding what is ďenoughĒ is a constant weighing up of what I am sacrificing by being a wage slave versus what Iíd be sacrificing by FIREing today. I certainly have enough stash to FIRE, but I am still not quite at my personal tipping point where I am willing to lock myself into the lifestyle that my stash would finance, when a couple of years of extra work will provide a few extra options which seem worth working for today. That being said, if I lost my job I am not sure Iíd bother looking for a replacement.

Indeed it is personal - I'd been more focused on the FI (which I hit a while ago), than the RE.  Multiple reasons for me, including:
- Health risks.  See one post up.
- Rate of change.  The snowballing had gotten to the point where "one more year" was adding multiple years of expenses, or increasing the potential draw down by $10k+ per year.
- A bit of "killing time". In the lead up my wife was pregnant with our first baby, so limited adventure potential in the last 3 months of the pregnancy.  Timing wise, we are going on a deployment for her work once the baby is 6 months, so it made for a natural exit point, where if it didn't work out, I could resume a career on return with a decent excuse for the gap in the CV.

I think that these forums tend to draw in personalities that like to optimise.  I spent a lot of time optimising FI, but cared less about optimising the RE.  Others have a bigger focus on optimising the RE part, and hence wonder what people like me are thinking!

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Koogie on November 15, 2017, 05:04:09 PM
I have a degenerative, progressive condition which will have increasing impacts over life - hence the extra padding.  I'm lucky to live in a country with good public healthcare (Australia) - its not quite universal, but good enough for intents and purposes.  However, beyond the direct healthcare costs, having something that will probably prevent you from going back to work in a failure scenario in ~20 years time is a strong incentive to pad the stash a bit more,  both to reduce failure probability, and to allow for an increased spending on disability care if needed.

Ditto (but in Canada).  DW has a degenerative neurological condition.  We have a large enough stash to accommodate our anticipated spending needs but not enough to feel perfectly safe from being ruined by future palliative care costs.   Hence, OMY syndrome.     

I have tried to make it easier on myself though by going semi-RE.   Quality of life NOW matters as well.    We aren't touching the stash as yet so it continues to feed itself and grow "organically"
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on November 21, 2017, 09:16:10 AM
You can almost have a mindset of retirement once you're financially independent.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Jill P on November 27, 2017, 10:35:11 PM
You can almost have a mindset of retirement once you're financially independent.

This is a great point!  Once you're FI, more things become optional.  Not just working, but purchases, investments, lifestyle, staching.  I've been a stay at home mom for years, but still worked- as a realtor for the last 8-10 years.  I can choose my clients and workload, or farm it out for a referral fee.  I manage our rentals and investments.   It doesn't feel like a real job, since I can choose to work, or not.  The real estate license was most valuable as a tool for reducing purchase costs on our rental investments, and has saved us a bundle.    I can carry on like this for another couple of decades.  MMM encourages frugality by learning to fix things (hubs does that for us), while I push the paper and plan the strategy.   Someday, at true retirement, if we keep the investment properties, maybe I'll farm out the rental management to a management company, but, in the mean time, I'm earning my keep.   It's not structured enough to feel like I have to RE to escape it.  We are Mustachians in the sense that we are completely hands on in all areas.  As someone who's always been a self employed entrepreneur and business owner,  the line between working, retirement and semi-retirement is not so clear cut.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on November 28, 2017, 08:31:31 AM
You can almost have a mindset of retirement once you're financially independent.

This is a great point!  Once you're FI, more things become optional.  Not just working, but purchases, investments, lifestyle, staching.  I've been a stay at home mom for years, but still worked- as a realtor for the last 8-10 years.  I can choose my clients and workload, or farm it out for a referral fee.  I manage our rentals and investments.   It doesn't feel like a real job, since I can choose to work, or not.  The real estate license was most valuable as a tool for reducing purchase costs on our rental investments, and has saved us a bundle.    I can carry on like this for another couple of decades.  MMM encourages frugality by learning to fix things (hubs does that for us), while I push the paper and plan the strategy.   Someday, at true retirement, if we keep the investment properties, maybe I'll farm out the rental management to a management company, but, in the mean time, I'm earning my keep.   It's not structured enough to feel like I have to RE to escape it.  We are Mustachians in the sense that we are completely hands on in all areas.  As someone who's always been a self employed entrepreneur and business owner,  the line between working, retirement and semi-retirement is not so clear cut.


My 'problem' is that we are..or nearly are...financially independent.   However, this has really affected my work motivation lately.  Therefore, I may be 'retired' before I know it!   

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on November 28, 2017, 08:58:49 AM
My 'problem' is that we are..or nearly are...financially independent.   However, this has really affected my work motivation lately.  Therefore, I may be 'retired' before I know it!
That's the very definition of an MPP!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: GettingClose on November 28, 2017, 12:12:48 PM
We just hit $3M today! There is absolutely no one IRL with whom this can be shared - so it feels great to post here!

The plan is for my spouse to retire by 09/01/2018 and then for me to work for another year to see how it goes. Yes, we're really cautious.  I tracked all of our spending last year, and it was about $65k, but health insurance alone would cost $1750/month for both of us (currently paid through work).   So that's another $21k, and then who knows how much more we'll spend in retireiment ...  My spouse, although careful with money, hates spending restrictions.

We're trying to get permanent residency status for Canada, which adds another layer of uncertainty.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on November 28, 2017, 01:12:13 PM
Nice job and "happy graduation".  Are you backing down your AA at this point, since "you've won the game"?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: GettingClose on November 28, 2017, 01:25:48 PM
Nice job and "happy graduation".  Are you backing down your AA at this point, since "you've won the game"?

Thank you!  Our AA was backed down a couple of years ago when we hit $2.5M; a good deal more conservative than I'd like.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on November 28, 2017, 07:30:53 PM
Fantastic.. Does that include equity in your house, pensions etc?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on November 28, 2017, 09:21:15 PM
Job well done Gettingclose.  That cost of healthcare scares the crap out of me.  I'd hoped 500k invested could be enough to cover health costs at a 4% withdrawal rate.   Maybe I'll need to up that amount.   
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: GettingClose on November 29, 2017, 10:16:44 AM
Fantastic.. Does that include equity in your house, pensions etc?

No pensions, but it does include the house.  This, however, is about to be sold (offer in hand, fingers crossed) - and we'll probably clear $50-100k above the number I've been using when calculating net worth.  The plan is to move to Canada and rent until we figure out "what's next".  The house is hugely expensive to run/insure/maintain/pay property tax on, so changes in housing costs are more unknowns coming up.  It's possible that renting a modest, energy-efficient home could cost less than owning a mortgage-free, 4800-sq-ft monstrosity with huge windows everywhere and an indoor pool ...  A lot of change and discovery ahead. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on November 29, 2017, 10:36:30 AM
Fantastic.. Does that include equity in your house, pensions etc?

No pensions, but it does include the house.  This, however, is about to be sold (offer in hand, fingers crossed) - and we'll probably clear $50-100k above the number I've been using when calculating net worth.  The plan is to move to Canada and rent until we figure out "what's next".  The house is hugely expensive to run/insure/maintain/pay property tax on, so changes in housing costs are more unknowns coming up.  It's possible that renting a modest, energy-efficient home could cost less than owning a mortgage-free, 4800-sq-ft monstrosity with huge windows everywhere and an indoor pool ...  A lot of change and discovery ahead.
Sounds exciting! Can't wait to hear more as your new life unfolds.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: BTDretire on November 29, 2017, 01:52:21 PM
One word, itchyfeet: philanthropy.

PTF. If I include the value of DH's defined benefit pension, we're there. I'm not counting our paid-for 1.3M home or the equity in our (lightly mortgaged) SFH rental properties. We're not racing anymore though, just cruising along, enjoying life, and the scenery, and smelling the roses.

Dicey, if you don't mind my asking, how do you assign a value to your husband's defined benefit pension? My husband should get about $27K/year (flat,non-COLA'd,

 I don't want to through a monkeywrench in here, but I went searching for a calculator that would give me the buying power of $27k with 13 years inflation at 3%. After 3 different searches I didn't find it!
 I put $27,000 in Excel and subtracted 3%,  13 times and got $18,172.
At 4% I got $15,881. At 5%, 1/2 of your buying power is gone, ($13,860)
  While I was at it, I ran the proverbial $40,000 of income for an MMM after 13 years @ 3%.
I get $58,741 or $1,469,000  required nestegg.
  It will be fine if someone checks my numbers, my logic doesn't always compute.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on November 29, 2017, 05:38:53 PM
It's all lifestyles of the rich and famous on this thread.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: AdrianC on November 30, 2017, 09:04:51 AM
That cost of healthcare [$1750/mo] scares the crap out of me.  I'd hoped 500k invested could be enough to cover health costs at a 4% withdrawal rate.   Maybe I'll need to up that amount.
Right now, as long as you keep your income down you'll qualify for a subsidy. I haven't managed it yet, but next year I'm projecting a subsidy of $1000/mo on a Bronze policy costing $1320/mo. That's pretty nice.

For 2019 who knows? My FIRE plan includes for healthcare costs rising at 13% per year and spending our deductible each year. I thought that was reasonable...until this years 80% increase in premiums if we stayed Silver with no subsidy.

Race to $5M?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on November 30, 2017, 09:13:52 AM
It's all lifestyles of the rich and famous frugal on this thread.
FTFY
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on November 30, 2017, 11:27:12 AM
It's all lifestyles of the rich and famous frugal on this thread.
FTFY

Ha that's better.  I don't think many of us are famous ( but who knows )! 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on December 01, 2017, 09:00:41 AM
We just hit the 3M mark, but I'm including the equity in our house. Background: I'm 41, my husband is 50. We both work in tech, and live in a VHCOL. Almost half of that 3M is in our 401Ks. The rest is split between liquid investments & home equity. My plan is to start spending down the liquid (if needed), as I'll be quitting my high paying job in June. I think our net worth will stay roughly the same, as our investments will grow, and my husband is hitting the sweet spot of his stock vesting schedule.

From a timing perspective, our net worth grew as follows (and, using the numbers I have available on my tracking chart - not because they are particularly round). The large increases are mostly due to stock vests.
-1/11 - $790K
-2/13 - $1,025,000
-10/14 - $1,514,000
-5/15 - $2,056,000
-11/16 - $2,381,000
-12/17 - $3,098,000
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on December 01, 2017, 09:05:47 AM
It's all lifestyles of the rich and famous frugal on this thread.
FTFY

Ha that's better.  I don't think many of us are famous ( but who knows )!
I suspect even if there are famous folk here, they'd value frugality over fame. Otherwise, why would they be here?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on December 01, 2017, 11:54:17 AM
We just hit the 3M mark, but I'm including the equity in our house. Background: I'm 41, my husband is 50. We both work in tech, and live in a VHCOL. Almost half of that 3M is in our 401Ks. The rest is split between liquid investments & home equity. My plan is to start spending down the liquid (if needed), as I'll be quitting my high paying job in June. I think our net worth will stay roughly the same, as our investments will grow, and my husband is hitting the sweet spot of his stock vesting schedule.

From a timing perspective, our net worth grew as follows (and, using the numbers I have available on my tracking chart - not because they are particularly round). The large increases are mostly due to stock vests.
-1/11 - $790K
-2/13 - $1,025,000
-10/14 - $1,514,000
-5/15 - $2,056,000
-11/16 - $2,381,000
-12/17 - $3,098,000

+700K in the past year. You must be getting nose bleeds!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on December 01, 2017, 12:18:55 PM
We just hit the 3M mark, but I'm including the equity in our house. Background: I'm 41, my husband is 50. We both work in tech, and live in a VHCOL. Almost half of that 3M is in our 401Ks. The rest is split between liquid investments & home equity. My plan is to start spending down the liquid (if needed), as I'll be quitting my high paying job in June. I think our net worth will stay roughly the same, as our investments will grow, and my husband is hitting the sweet spot of his stock vesting schedule.

From a timing perspective, our net worth grew as follows (and, using the numbers I have available on my tracking chart - not because they are particularly round). The large increases are mostly due to stock vests.
-1/11 - $790K
-2/13 - $1,025,000
-10/14 - $1,514,000
-5/15 - $2,056,000
-11/16 - $2,381,000
-12/17 - $3,098,000

+700K in the past year. You must be getting nose bleeds!

We can only take some of the credit. The company we (both) work for has had quite a stock increase. Which has led to our vested (unsold) options being worth quite a bit more. And, I'm finally really accruing meaningful options, which was tougher a few years ago when we were both newer to the company. But, the gravy train will be slowing down very quickly once I leave (planned date of end of June, 2018)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on December 04, 2017, 08:32:48 AM
Have the options been exercised, or is that the book value of the unexercised option?

 If the latter have you accounted for the tax liability on the options... if any is triggered on vesting or exercising.

Itís hard to imagine growing NW by $700k without a similarly hefty tax bill.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on December 04, 2017, 01:36:32 PM
Have the options been exercised, or is that the book value of the unexercised option?

 If the latter have you accounted for the tax liability on the options... if any is triggered on vesting or exercising.

Itís hard to imagine growing NW by $700k without a similarly hefty tax bill.

These are exercised options. We have the taxes automatically withheld before sale. There is a marginal amount left after that, which we save for, but our taxes for the holding is set & not adjustable. This isn't our first year of stock - our options have been vesting for four years. The amount has just grown more meaningful given length at the company.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on December 04, 2017, 07:01:24 PM
Nice!!!

Nothing more to be said really. Comgrats!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on December 04, 2017, 07:23:04 PM
To the east side (movin on up)
To a deluxe apartment in the sky.
Movin' on up (movin on up) To the east side (movin on up)
We finally got a piece of the pie.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=moving+on+up+to+the+east+side+lyrics&view=detail&mid=A95A073956BE39814DE9A95A073956BE39814DE9&FORM=VIRE
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: oldtoyota on December 04, 2017, 07:25:42 PM
Best part about being a Mustacian between $2M and $3M is that no one knows.
Mustacians in this savings bracket don't stick out as presenting an image of being "rich."
Most people who display the image of being rich really are living paycheck to paycheck.

A guy bought in iPhone 5 off me via Craigslist about a month ago. He was in the US from Costa Rica in order to skydive at 7 different locations. He drove a 1990s VW van (not old enough to have value and definitely not running well). He looked like a 50 year old hippy, yet I would wager that he is more financially independent than most of my gold-collar friends.

Stealth wealth is the place for me.  I'm just not comfortable letting people know my NW has crested 2M.  Since we still work it doesn't show much.  I shop at the dollar store and Goodwill.   My vehicle is 9 years old.  We haven't moved out of the home we bought in 1992.

Stealth wealth for me, too. I also shop at thrift stores, if I buy clothing at all, and my cars are oooolllld.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on December 04, 2017, 10:38:53 PM
I feel right at home in my soon to be 10 year old F250 XLT.  It will haul my stuff and I don't wash it.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on December 04, 2017, 11:16:25 PM
I feel right at home in my soon to be 10 year old F250 XLT.  It will haul my stuff and I don't wash it.

10 years old?.. our F250 was built in '89.. of course it uses so much gas we don't drive it much...:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on December 05, 2017, 09:20:28 AM
I hope to keep it a long time, 12 miles per gallon ain't very Mustacian.   We kept my wife's old Honda Accord,  190k miles.  Maybe I'll buy an electric car in a few years, never a new gasoline car for sure.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: GettingClose on December 05, 2017, 10:36:31 AM
With the security of the $3M stash achieved, I just negotiated an 8-week leave of absence, starting in late January.  I need to come in half a day a week to do some key management tasks, but can probably skip that a couple of times.

I don't plan to go anywhere; have been working since 1991 for the same company without ever taking more than 2.5 weeks off, and I'm just tired.  It's one big push or project after another. 

My plans:
1) work out 6 days/week. I already do 4-5x, but after working 9-10 hours, so I never do stretching or put in an extra 10 minutes.
2) cook dinner every night
3) convert all my photo albums over the years to Shutterfly books
4) do what yardwork can be done, depending on the weather
5) spend much more time with my grandkids
6) read a lot
7) maybe scan all receipts, tax forms, etc, in two big filing cabinets, to permanently eliminate that clutter.   This is 25 years' worth ... Does anyone have any experience with good software/hardware for doing this?

So excited!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on December 05, 2017, 11:31:39 AM
Hmmm, excited about filing.... canít see that ever happening to me.

Whilst not exactly going completely crazy with consumption, I would say that DW and I are quite conspicuous with our financial good fortune, unlike most here.

Our income is quite high (not as high as some, but higher than most), and I am perfectly happy with us spending half and saving half. I monitor our money closely but havenít felt the need to real in spending.

We blow a big chunk of earnings on travel to all sorts of exotic locations all over the world, which we then facebrag about shamelessly in a very un moustachian way..... this is the main way we are conspicuous.

I am a little embarrassed at our financial good fortune, and by how much we spend on travel, but YOLO (blush) and there is nothing else we particularly want to spend the money on.

We share 1 car and itís almost 6 years old. Our last car we kept for 12 years. We donít spend much on clothes or furniture or other junk. Itís not hard for us to save half of what we earn and still travel to wherever we want, even if itís only for a few days, making the cost per day ridiculous.

Despite this flaunting of spending power, I donít think I could ever get the courage to tell anyone straight up what my net worth is. Itís not even that high, but still higher than most could ever accumulate.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: GettingClose on December 05, 2017, 11:43:57 AM
Quote
Hmmm, excited about filing.... canít see that ever happening to me.

Hahaha! The excitement wasn't related to filing :-)

We're not overly mustachian either, our (hopefully soon to be sold) house is ridiculous for two people, and we travel quite a bit, too.  However we drive older used cars, do our own yardwork, re-use, recycle, and comparison shop.  We too could never mention net worth, or that the house is paid off, etc.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on December 05, 2017, 12:04:42 PM
With the security of the $3M stash achieved, I just negotiated an 8-week leave of absence, starting in late January.  I need to come in half a day a week to do some key management tasks, but can probably skip that a couple of times.

I don't plan to go anywhere; have been working since 1991 for the same company without ever taking more than 2.5 weeks off, and I'm just tired.  It's one big push or project after another. 

My plans:
1) work out 6 days/week. I already do 4-5x, but after working 9-10 hours, so I never do stretching or put in an extra 10 minutes.
2) cook dinner every night
3) convert all my photo albums over the years to Shutterfly books
4) do what yardwork can be done, depending on the weather
5) spend much more time with my grandkids
6) read a lot
7) maybe scan all receipts, tax forms, etc, in two big filing cabinets, to permanently eliminate that clutter.   This is 25 years' worth ... Does anyone have any experience with good software/hardware for doing this?

So excited!

Wow only 2.5 weeks a year vacation?  No disrespect, but maybe that's why you are tired! 

I have also worked since 1992 at the same job ( tech firm ).  And while it is a high pressure job, I *always* take all of my vacation.  To me, it is one of the key ways I can keep my sanity while working here.  Some of the 'workaholics' don't always like it but I tell them that the company gives us vacation for a reason...lol.

As far as scanning receipts and such...we don't do that.  We charge everything and the credit card summary is enough of a record of what we spent money on.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on December 05, 2017, 02:01:12 PM
With the security of the $3M stash achieved, I just negotiated an 8-week leave of absence, starting in late January.  I need to come in half a day a week to do some key management tasks, but can probably skip that a couple of times.

I don't plan to go anywhere; have been working since 1991 for the same company without ever taking more than 2.5 weeks off, and I'm just tired.  It's one big push or project after another. 

My plans:
1) work out 6 days/week. I already do 4-5x, but after working 9-10 hours, so I never do stretching or put in an extra 10 minutes.
2) cook dinner every night
3) convert all my photo albums over the years to Shutterfly books
4) do what yardwork can be done, depending on the weather
5) spend much more time with my grandkids
6) read a lot
7) maybe scan all receipts, tax forms, etc, in two big filing cabinets, to permanently eliminate that clutter.   This is 25 years' worth ... Does anyone have any experience with good software/hardware for doing this?
8) Take lots of naps

So excited!

Wow only 2.5 weeks a year vacation?  No disrespect, but maybe that's why you are tired! I hope OP means 2.5 weeks at a time, not total per year. If you're reading it correctly, that would be so, so sad!

I have also worked since 1992 at the same job ( tech firm ).  And while it is a high pressure job, I *always* take all of my vacation.  To me, it is one of the key ways I can keep my sanity while working here.  Some of the 'workaholics' don't always like it but I tell them that the company gives us vacation for a reason...lol. Great response!

As far as scanning receipts and such...we don't do that.  We charge everything and the credit card summary is enough of a record of what we spent money on. Erm, I'm guessing this indicates you have never been audited? This is NOT a Best Practice #askmehowIknow

Getting Close, you missed one. FTFY.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: GettingClose on December 05, 2017, 02:20:34 PM
With the security of the $3M stash achieved, I just negotiated an 8-week leave of absence, starting in late January.  I need to come in half a day a week to do some key management tasks, but can probably skip that a couple of times.

I don't plan to go anywhere; have been working since 1991 for the same company without ever taking more than 2.5 weeks off, and I'm just tired.  It's one big push or project after another. 

My plans:
1) work out 6 days/week. I already do 4-5x, but after working 9-10 hours, so I never do stretching or put in an extra 10 minutes.
2) cook dinner every night
3) convert all my photo albums over the years to Shutterfly books
4) do what yardwork can be done, depending on the weather
5) spend much more time with my grandkids
6) read a lot
7) maybe scan all receipts, tax forms, etc, in two big filing cabinets, to permanently eliminate that clutter.   This is 25 years' worth ... Does anyone have any experience with good software/hardware for doing this?
8) Take lots of naps and drink lots of hot chocolate

So excited!

Wow only 2.5 weeks a year vacation?  No disrespect, but maybe that's why you are tired! I hope OP means 2.5 weeks at a time, not total per year. If you're reading it correctly, that would be so, so sad! Yes, I have 5 weeks of PTO + 10 paid holidays, and I do take it all.

I have also worked since 1992 at the same job ( tech firm ).  And while it is a high pressure job, I *always* take all of my vacation.  To me, it is one of the key ways I can keep my sanity while working here.  Some of the 'workaholics' don't always like it but I tell them that the company gives us vacation for a reason...lol. Great response! Yes, the higher the pressure, the more vacation is needed.

As far as scanning receipts and such...we don't do that.  We charge everything and the credit card summary is enough of a record of what we spent money on. Erm, I'm guessing this indicates you have never been audited? This is NOT a Best Practice #askmehowIknow

Getting Close, you missed one. FTFY.  I appreciate that :-)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on December 06, 2017, 07:34:43 AM
With the security of the $3M stash achieved, I just negotiated an 8-week leave of absence, starting in late January.  I need to come in half a day a week to do some key management tasks, but can probably skip that a couple of times.

I don't plan to go anywhere; have been working since 1991 for the same company without ever taking more than 2.5 weeks off, and I'm just tired.  It's one big push or project after another. 

My plans:
1) work out 6 days/week. I already do 4-5x, but after working 9-10 hours, so I never do stretching or put in an extra 10 minutes.
2) cook dinner every night
3) convert all my photo albums over the years to Shutterfly books
4) do what yardwork can be done, depending on the weather
5) spend much more time with my grandkids
6) read a lot
7) maybe scan all receipts, tax forms, etc, in two big filing cabinets, to permanently eliminate that clutter.   This is 25 years' worth ... Does anyone have any experience with good software/hardware for doing this?
8) Take lots of naps and drink lots of hot chocolate

So excited!

Wow only 2.5 weeks a year vacation?  No disrespect, but maybe that's why you are tired! I hope OP means 2.5 weeks at a time, not total per year. If you're reading it correctly, that would be so, so sad! Yes, I have 5 weeks of PTO + 10 paid holidays, and I do take it all.

I have also worked since 1992 at the same job ( tech firm ).  And while it is a high pressure job, I *always* take all of my vacation.  To me, it is one of the key ways I can keep my sanity while working here.  Some of the 'workaholics' don't always like it but I tell them that the company gives us vacation for a reason...lol. Great response! Yes, the higher the pressure, the more vacation is needed.

As far as scanning receipts and such...we don't do that.  We charge everything and the credit card summary is enough of a record of what we spent money on. Erm, I'm guessing this indicates you have never been audited? This is NOT a Best Practice #askmehowIknow

Getting Close, you missed one. FTFY.  I appreciate that :-)

Whew! Glad you do take advantage of your vacation.  You scared me there for a minute. :-)

Like I mentioned, where I work, there are MANY ( often grumpy ) people who use very little vacation.  It boggles my mind and I'm not afraid to tell them ( in a gentle way ) why they might be a little bit 'grumpy'. 

As for the receipt scanning thing...I'm aware that it's probably not a 'best practice'.  However, I also know that very, very few people do it.  An excuse?  Absolutely...but I guess I'll take my chances.

And one more thing.  As I get closer to FI....or have already arrived, I feel less and less pressure on the job.  I'm not sure that is a good thing...because I also feel less motivated! 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Jill P on December 06, 2017, 09:10:51 AM
Hmmm, excited about filing.... canít see that ever happening to me.

Whilst not exactly going completely crazy with consumption, I would say that DW and I are quite conspicuous with our financial good fortune, unlike most here.

Our income is quite high (not as high as some, but higher than most), and I am perfectly happy with us spending half and saving half. I monitor our money closely but havenít felt the need to real in spending.

We blow a big chunk of earnings on travel to all sorts of exotic locations all over the world, which we then facebrag about shamelessly in a very un moustachian way..... this is the main way we are conspicuous.

I am a little embarrassed at our financial good fortune, and by how much we spend on travel, but YOLO (blush) and there is nothing else we particularly want to spend the money on.

We share 1 car and itís almost 6 years old. Our last car we kept for 12 years. We donít spend much on clothes or furniture or other junk. Itís not hard for us to save half of what we earn and still travel to wherever we want, even if itís only for a few days, making the cost per day ridiculous.

Despite this flaunting of spending power, I donít think I could ever get the courage to tell anyone straight up what my net worth is. Itís not even that high, but still higher than most could ever accumulate.

If you're saving half of what you earn, that seems pretty great by any standards.

So, where do you like to travel to?    We're travelers, also.  We don't brag about our travels, and try to emphasize the frugality of our adventures.  (Thailand!  5 dollars for a full 3 course dinner!)  We're extremely frequent travelers (I filled a passport in 4 years), and that is hard to downplay when one is unavailable to go to a movie or dinner, because they are out of the country.  Currently we're traveling internationally about 6 times a year, mostly to Europe, with other destinations sprinkled in.  It's a dream come true.  We are not high budget travelers, though, and have found that we can travel Europe for about half what it costs to do the same thing at home.  I've stayed in 1000 year old castles for less than $50 a night. But frugal is who we are.  We can talk for 20 minutes over the merits of a $40 vs. $60 hotel room, and often do.   We do fancy hotels occasionally, but only if some sort of amazing bargain was found.  10 cents on the dollar is about right to lure me.
Really, having a high NW is a blessing.  We have earned every penny, made good choices over decades, had some good fortune (along with plenty of mistakes), and worked hard (yes, yes we did!).   Frugality got us here, and that doesn't change with more money tossed in.   We help our family, including taking them on trips and making generous gifts.   Our kids get a good college education and we don't have to scrimp because of it.  We drive dependable vehicles, albeit until they die or become less dependable.  We live in a nice house with nice stuff, go on trips, enjoy ourselves,  AND can still spread it around.   

As far as  actually spilling the NW value... DON"T!  Talk to us instead!   Some friends of mine recently sold a business and the gossip was that it sold at a 1.5 million price tag.  It pricks up everybody's ears, including mine.  They are living frugally compared to most, and that's a topic for the spendthrifts in and of itself.  The green monster lifts his head over these topics.  Financial success is just so rare in this world, that it's an alluring topic.   
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Jill P on December 06, 2017, 09:40:48 AM
[

My plans:
1) work out 6 days/week. I already do 4-5x, but after working 9-10 hours, so I never do stretching or put in an extra 10 minutes.
2) cook dinner every night
3) convert all my photo albums over the years to Shutterfly books
4) do what yardwork can be done, depending on the weather
5) spend much more time with my grandkids
6) read a lot
7) maybe scan all receipts, tax forms, etc, in two big filing cabinets, to permanently eliminate that clutter.   This is 25 years' worth ... Does anyone have any experience with good software/hardware for doing this?
8) Take lots of naps and drink lots of hot chocolate

So excited!
[/quote]
  That should be very gratifying.  We are winding down our work, too, and it's so nice to be able to tackle all the things that have been low on the priority list.  For me, it was my garden and de-cluttering.  The garden is thriving, and most of it was planted earlier this year.   I wanted to emphasize native plants that are bird, bee and butterfly friendly.  It's like a little ecosystem out there.   It's so rewarding! 

Quote
And one more thing.  As I get closer to FI....or have already arrived, I feel less and less pressure on the job.  I'm not sure that is a good thing...because I also feel less motivated!

Sounds great!  Time is like closet space- you'll fill it with the tasks at hand.  Enjoy the R & R, and congrats!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on December 06, 2017, 11:50:52 AM
Hmmm, excited about filing.... canít see that ever happening to me.

Whilst not exactly going completely crazy with consumption, I would say that DW and I are quite conspicuous with our financial good fortune, unlike most here.

Our income is quite high (not as high as some, but higher than most), and I am perfectly happy with us spending half and saving half. I monitor our money closely but havenít felt the need to real in spending.

We blow a big chunk of earnings on travel to all sorts of exotic locations all over the world, which we then facebrag about shamelessly in a very un moustachian way..... this is the main way we are conspicuous.

I am a little embarrassed at our financial good fortune, and by how much we spend on travel, but YOLO (blush) and there is nothing else we particularly want to spend the money on.

We share 1 car and itís almost 6 years old. Our last car we kept for 12 years. We donít spend much on clothes or furniture or other junk. Itís not hard for us to save half of what we earn and still travel to wherever we want, even if itís only for a few days, making the cost per day ridiculous.

Despite this flaunting of spending power, I donít think I could ever get the courage to tell anyone straight up what my net worth is. Itís not even that high, but still higher than most could ever accumulate.

If you're saving half of what you earn, that seems pretty great by any standards.

So, where do you like to travel to?    We're travelers, also.  We don't brag about our travels, and try to emphasize the frugality of our adventures.  (Thailand!  5 dollars for a full 3 course dinner!)  We're extremely frequent travelers (I filled a passport in 4 years), and that is hard to downplay when one is unavailable to go to a movie or dinner, because they are out of the country.  Currently we're traveling internationally about 6 times a year, mostly to Europe, with other destinations sprinkled in.  It's a dream come true.  We are not high budget travelers, though, and have found that we can travel Europe for about half what it costs to do the same thing at home.  I've stayed in 1000 year old castles for less than $50 a night. But frugal is who we are.  We can talk for 20 minutes over the merits of a $40 vs. $60 hotel room, and often do.   We do fancy hotels occasionally, but only if some sort of amazing bargain was found.  10 cents on the dollar is about right to lure me.
Really, having a high NW is a blessing.  We have earned every penny, made good choices over decades, had some good fortune (along with plenty of mistakes), and worked hard (yes, yes we did!).   Frugality got us here, and that doesn't change with more money tossed in.   We help our family, including taking them on trips and making generous gifts.   Our kids get a good college education and we don't have to scrimp because of it.  We drive dependable vehicles, albeit until they die or become less dependable.  We live in a nice house with nice stuff, go on trips, enjoy ourselves,  AND can still spread it around.   

As far as  actually spilling the NW value... DON"T!  Talk to us instead!   Some friends of mine recently sold a business and the gossip was that it sold at a 1.5 million price tag.  It pricks up everybody's ears, including mine.  They are living frugally compared to most, and that's a topic for the spendthrifts in and of itself.  The green monster lifts his head over these topics.  Financial success is just so rare in this world, that it's an alluring topic.

We travel wherever takes our fancy. Sometimes we go el cheapo, sometimes not.

Last week I had some business in France, so I organised to meet DW in Finland afterwards and we flew up to Lapland to do a husky safari and squeeze in a little skiing. We squeezed a lot into 4 days and had an awesome time.

We keep saying we should spend less on travel, but then some opportunity presents itself and we just keep concluding that we have never regretted the things we have done, just the things we didnít do. Hence, I try to make that list as short as possible.

At the end of it all we might have to work an extra year compared to what would have been the case if we had passed on all the travel opportunities and stuck to 1 overseas trip every couple of years. Working the extra year is the right choice for us.

Retiring at 46 or at 47 is much of a muchness, and we have had a life full of incredible experiences exploring the world. We would never wish to have replaced our experiences with a couple of hundred grand extra in the bank..... but these are the words of someone who got pretty lucky on the money front.... yes there was hard work, persistence, risk taking and good decision making involved, also a fair amount of stress and way too many hours sitting in airport terminals........but also a fat slab of good fortune.

In 2 weeks we fly to Sydney. Yay!

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: GettingClose on December 06, 2017, 02:03:16 PM
Quote
Last week I had some business in France, so I organised to meet DW in Finland afterwards and we flew up to Lapland to do a husky safari and squeeze in a little skiing. We squeezed a lot into 4 days and had an awesome time.

We keep saying we should spend less on travel, but then some opportunity presents itself and we just keep concluding that we have never regretted the things we have done, just the things we didnít do. Hence, I try to make that list as short as possible.

At the end of it all we might have to work an extra year compared to what would have been the case if we had passed on all the travel opportunities and stuck to 1 overseas trip every couple of years. Working the extra year is the right choice for us.

Sounds like a good balance of "now" and "later".

Quote
Retiring at 46 or at 47 is much of a muchness, and we have had a life full of incredible experiences exploring the world.
I'm right around these ages ... when did you FIRE?

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on December 06, 2017, 08:02:59 PM
Quote
Last week I had some business in France, so I organised to meet DW in Finland afterwards and we flew up to Lapland to do a husky safari and squeeze in a little skiing. We squeezed a lot into 4 days and had an awesome time.

We keep saying we should spend less on travel, but then some opportunity presents itself and we just keep concluding that we have never regretted the things we have done, just the things we didnít do. Hence, I try to make that list as short as possible.

At the end of it all we might have to work an extra year compared to what would have been the case if we had passed on all the travel opportunities and stuck to 1 overseas trip every couple of years. Working the extra year is the right choice for us.

Sounds like a good balance of "now" and "later".

Quote
Retiring at 46 or at 47 is much of a muchness, and we have had a life full of incredible experiences exploring the world.
I'm right around these ages ... when did you FIRE?

Planning to FIRE mid 2019. Still working and squeezing in life around the demands of my employer.

I am fortunate to get 6 weeks leave a year, plus the 10 public holidays here, so effectively 8 weeks of adventures each year, but split into smallish chucks. Looking forward to slowing things down post FIRE. Maybe half the trips, but each trip triple the duration.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Secretly Saving on December 06, 2017, 08:13:40 PM
Hmmm, excited about filing.... canít see that ever happening to me.

Whilst not exactly going completely crazy with consumption, I would say that DW and I are quite conspicuous with our financial good fortune, unlike most here.

Our income is quite high (not as high as some, but higher than most), and I am perfectly happy with us spending half and saving half. I monitor our money closely but havenít felt the need to real in spending.

We blow a big chunk of earnings on travel to all sorts of exotic locations all over the world, which we then facebrag about shamelessly in a very un moustachian way..... this is the main way we are conspicuous.

I am a little embarrassed at our financial good fortune, and by how much we spend on travel, but YOLO (blush) and there is nothing else we particularly want to spend the money on.

We share 1 car and itís almost 6 years old. Our last car we kept for 12 years. We donít spend much on clothes or furniture or other junk. Itís not hard for us to save half of what we earn and still travel to wherever we want, even if itís only for a few days, making the cost per day ridiculous.

Despite this flaunting of spending power, I donít think I could ever get the courage to tell anyone straight up what my net worth is. Itís not even that high, but still higher than most could ever accumulate.

If you're saving half of what you earn, that seems pretty great by any standards.

So, where do you like to travel to?    We're travelers, also.  We don't brag about our travels, and try to emphasize the frugality of our adventures.  (Thailand!  5 dollars for a full 3 course dinner!)  We're extremely frequent travelers (I filled a passport in 4 years), and that is hard to downplay when one is unavailable to go to a movie or dinner, because they are out of the country.  Currently we're traveling internationally about 6 times a year, mostly to Europe, with other destinations sprinkled in.  It's a dream come true.  We are not high budget travelers, though, and have found that we can travel Europe for about half what it costs to do the same thing at home.  I've stayed in 1000 year old castles for less than $50 a night. But frugal is who we are.  We can talk for 20 minutes over the merits of a $40 vs. $60 hotel room, and often do.   We do fancy hotels occasionally, but only if some sort of amazing bargain was found.  10 cents on the dollar is about right to lure me.
Really, having a high NW is a blessing.  We have earned every penny, made good choices over decades, had some good fortune (along with plenty of mistakes), and worked hard (yes, yes we did!).   Frugality got us here, and that doesn't change with more money tossed in.   We help our family, including taking them on trips and making generous gifts.   Our kids get a good college education and we don't have to scrimp because of it.  We drive dependable vehicles, albeit until they die or become less dependable.  We live in a nice house with nice stuff, go on trips, enjoy ourselves,  AND can still spread it around.   

As far as  actually spilling the NW value... DON"T!  Talk to us instead!   Some friends of mine recently sold a business and the gossip was that it sold at a 1.5 million price tag.  It pricks up everybody's ears, including mine.  They are living frugally compared to most, and that's a topic for the spendthrifts in and of itself.  The green monster lifts his head over these topics.  Financial success is just so rare in this world, that it's an alluring topic.

Jill P, I'd love to hear about your favorite places -- 1000 year old castles and more all on a budget!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on December 06, 2017, 09:41:36 PM
Please share your travel stories.   My wife and I haven't traveled much at all.  Just too busy with work and family.   I'd love to strike out upon the world as a nomad.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: PhrugalPhan on December 06, 2017, 09:47:54 PM
I read this complete thread and enjoyed reading about how you can calculate your 'stache.  As I only have about $850k in all of my accounts I didn't think I could fit in here, then I reconsidered.  Maybe the group can say if this makes sense.

Here goes.... while I am single, I am in a 6+ year relationship where she is going to move in with me when she retires.  My GF has just over $1 Mil in her TSP & inherited IRA (about $1.01 Mil right now).  Since most people include significant others, if you combine our 'staches we have about $1.85Mil.

In addition we both have pensions at our jobs.  She is a Fed and can retire at the end of 2018 with a $30k/year payout for life with a COLA (and mostly paid for health insurance).  Using the 25X multiplier, that would be an approximate $750k 'stache addition.

And then I have a pension I am working towards as well.  Its a solid local government pension.  I am currently vested at $29k/yr and if I continue working 5 more years I can get it right away and will probably be $40k/year.  If I left now, I have to wait a decade to start getting it.  If I take the $29k/year, use the 25X multiplier, and discount it by 25% (I figure that's a conservative number?), that gives me $543k to add to a 'stache. 

Is it safe to say we already have an $3+ Mil 'stache?  That seems crazy beyond belief.  I also have a paid off house that comps in at about $350k too.  I didn't mean to write and brag, but while I knew we wouldn't have to worry about money really, I had no idea we could consider that we are worth this amount.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on December 07, 2017, 06:26:15 AM
Sounds like you've jumped right through the $3M point.  Waiting for someone to start a $3M->$4M thread.  I know some here are reluctant, taking to heart the MMM story.  How could anyone have more than $1M and not retire?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on December 07, 2017, 08:44:13 AM
I read this complete thread and enjoyed reading about how you can calculate your 'stache.  As I only have about $850k in all of my accounts I didn't think I could fit in here, then I reconsidered.  Maybe the group can say if this makes sense.

Here goes.... while I am single, I am in a 6+ year relationship where she is going to move in with me when she retires.  My GF has just over $1 Mil in her TSP & inherited IRA (about $1.01 Mil right now).  Since most people include significant others, if you combine our 'staches we have about $1.85Mil.

In addition we both have pensions at our jobs.  She is a Fed and can retire at the end of 2018 with a $30k/year payout for life with a COLA (and mostly paid for health insurance).  Using the 25X multiplier, that would be an approximate $750k 'stache addition.

And then I have a pension I am working towards as well.  Its a solid local government pension.  I am currently vested at $29k/yr and if I continue working 5 more years I can get it right away and will probably be $40k/year.  If I left now, I have to wait a decade to start getting it.  If I take the $29k/year, use the 25X multiplier, and discount it by 25% (I figure that's a conservative number?), that gives me $543k to add to a 'stache. 

Is it safe to say we already have an $3+ Mil 'stache?  That seems crazy beyond belief.  I also have a paid off house that comps in at about $350k too.  I didn't mean to write and brag, but while I knew we wouldn't have to worry about money really, I had no idea we could consider that we are worth this amount.

Looks like you fit in fine here!  The numbers are just a general guideline...people calculate in different ways and differ on what they include in the 'final number'.

As for us, I am not currently counting my wife's pension...only 'investable assets' and the paid-off house...to arrive at our 2.4M number.  Adding in her pension would result in a greater number...but who cares?   One could also factor in future Social Security income..but none really do ( however, pretty much any retirement planner does...like personal capital, etc... ).

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on December 07, 2017, 05:53:53 PM
I haven't seen any hard set rules on how to tabulate your wealth as a requirement to pos5 here.  I toss in paid off real estate to make the cut.  We all welcome your input.   I know I've personally learned a ton from these folks.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on December 07, 2017, 10:50:42 PM
Yes same here.. I tend to include the current value of pensions because that turns into real income which is what we want our Stash to do as well.

 I tend to exclude the house because we are more than likely to stay here for the forseable future despite dreams to the contrary, even then we still need somewhere to live. Its also hard to value because there are few comps to our little farmette.

I any case

Stash - $1.94m
Pensions - about $0.51m
House -- about $0.4m or so.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on December 07, 2017, 10:59:49 PM
After years of budgeting and watching the pennies, we are richer now than we ever imagined possible. We realized that between RMD's, DH's pension w/ COLA and health benefits, and Social Security, we stand to make more per year in retirement than we ever did working. Therefore, I don't count every penny of NW, because we have "Enough". I think we could level up if a new thread was started, but I'd have to calculate and include the value of his pension, which I am too lazy to do.

I like following along on the $500k --->$1M, and the $1M--->$2M threads too. It's fun to see people making good decisions and great progress!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Secretly Saving on December 08, 2017, 04:52:52 AM
After years of budgeting and watching the pennies, we are richer now than we ever imagined possible. We realized that between RMD's, DH's pension w/ COLA and health benefits, and Social Security, we stand to make more per year in retirement than we ever did working. Therefore, I don't count every penny of NW, because we have "Enough". I think we could level up if a new thread was started, but I'd have to calculate and include the value of his pension, which I am too lazy to do.

I like following along on the $500k --->$1M, and the $1M--->$2M threads too. It's fun to see people making good decisions and great progress!

Yes, it is fun to celebrate other's successes!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on December 08, 2017, 07:49:06 AM
Yes same here.. I tend to include the current value of pensions because that turns into real income which is what we want our Stash to do as well.

 I tend to exclude the house because we are more than likely to stay here for the forseable future despite dreams to the contrary, even then we still need somewhere to live. Its also hard to value because there are few comps to our little farmette.

I any case

Stash - $1.94m
Pensions - about $0.51m
House -- about $0.4m or so.


The problem I have with pensions is personal.  Mine went away...taken by a big corporation when they 'restructured'.   Instead, they gave us a cash balance plan with NO control and they only pay 'market rate' (i.e. - crappy) interest payments to it.   BTW this has happened to millions in the last decade or two....even to people near retirement who were really were counting on the income.  Many of my coworkers fell into this trap and it was extremely sad to see.  Luckily, I was younger at the time.

If you think your pension is safe then I can see adding it in.  However, if for any reason it might not be safe, I'd err on the side of caution.  BTW this is also why many younger folks don't factor in Social Security and treat it as an extra...they fear that it very well might not be around when the time comes.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on December 08, 2017, 11:04:36 AM
If I ever make it $3M.... even $3M Aussie rupees, Iíll start a $3M-$4M thread just cause I could 😁. There seems to be a bunch of you that could do so today!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on December 08, 2017, 01:03:57 PM
Yes same here.. I tend to include the current value of pensions because that turns into real income which is what we want our Stash to do as well.

 I tend to exclude the house because we are more than likely to stay here for the forseable future despite dreams to the contrary, even then we still need somewhere to live. Its also hard to value because there are few comps to our little farmette.

I any case

Stash - $1.94m
Pensions - about $0.51m
House -- about $0.4m or so.


The problem I have with pensions is personal.  Mine went away...taken by a big corporation when they 'restructured'.   Instead, they gave us a cash balance plan with NO control and they only pay 'market rate' (i.e. - crappy) interest payments to it.   BTW this has happened to millions in the last decade or two....even to people near retirement who were really were counting on the income.  Many of my coworkers fell into this trap and it was extremely sad to see.  Luckily, I was younger at the time.

If you think your pension is safe then I can see adding it in.  However, if for any reason it might not be safe, I'd err on the side of caution.  BTW this is also why many younger folks don't factor in Social Security and treat it as an extra...they fear that it very well might not be around when the time comes.

Good point.. How that can be legal is beyond me.. But then again nothing should amaze me in the USA Oligarchy.. Place is run by criminals.

Fortunately for us, DW's pension is State funded in Oregon so it (and one day it will) would have to go bankrupt. Secondly, my UK pension is much better protected and backed by the Government to 90% (100% after I start drawing it). I guess those "evil Socialists" don't take very kindly to big company's stealing their employee pensions.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on December 08, 2017, 01:40:16 PM
Yes same here.. I tend to include the current value of pensions because that turns into real income which is what we want our Stash to do as well.

 I tend to exclude the house because we are more than likely to stay here for the forseable future despite dreams to the contrary, even then we still need somewhere to live. Its also hard to value because there are few comps to our little farmette.

I any case

Stash - $1.94m
Pensions - about $0.51m
House -- about $0.4m or so.


The problem I have with pensions is personal.  Mine went away...taken by a big corporation when they 'restructured'.   Instead, they gave us a cash balance plan with NO control and they only pay 'market rate' (i.e. - crappy) interest payments to it.   BTW this has happened to millions in the last decade or two....even to people near retirement who were really were counting on the income.  Many of my coworkers fell into this trap and it was extremely sad to see.  Luckily, I was younger at the time.

If you think your pension is safe then I can see adding it in.  However, if for any reason it might not be safe, I'd err on the side of caution.  BTW this is also why many younger folks don't factor in Social Security and treat it as an extra...they fear that it very well might not be around when the time comes.

Good point.. How that can be legal is beyond me.. But then again nothing should amaze me in the USA Oligarchy.. Place is run by criminals.

Fortunately for us, DW's pension is State funded in Oregon so it (and one day it will) would have to go bankrupt. Secondly, my UK pension is much better protected and backed by the Government to 90% (100% after I start drawing it). I guess those "evil Socialists" don't take very kindly to big company's stealing their employee pensions.

This happened to me in (2012) 20 years into my career.   I only had 8 years (2020) to go to lock in 50% of my income for life at age 52.  Then the cash balance came.  They paid me $165,000 for 20 years of service into their new plan with a 5% rate of interest.  It's grown with contributions to 331K currently.  I make about 120k a year.  The math here isn't even close.  We got legally screwed.  Many people I've worked with didn't save past the company match in the 401k if that.  You put in 6% they match 50% so most had a relative 9% if that.  They figured the 401k would be play money.  They'd get 60-75k from pension.  It's gone!  One guy I know is 54, has 90k in his 401k, never thought it would be important, wants to retire soon. He still has debt he's paying.   Same company, same opportunity  My 401k is over 10x larger than his.  I'm 49 and have worked less years for the company.  Great guy, really likeable and not a screw-up.  There are many just like him.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on December 08, 2017, 04:18:00 PM
State pensions and city pensions are all susceptible to being cut in a bankruptcy. City of Detroit employees had their pensions lowered due to the bankruptcy. The state of Illinois and the city of Chicago pensions may eventually be cut down in bankruptcy court.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on December 08, 2017, 04:31:33 PM
State pensions and city pensions are all susceptible to being cut in a bankruptcy. City of Detroit employees had their pensions lowered due to the bankruptcy. The state of Illinois and the city of Chicago pensions may eventually be cut down in bankruptcy court.

True, the State has visited court a few times trying to cut the benefits paid under PERs.. Each time they have been sent home with their tail between their legs. I think you'r right though, one day they will prevail.

Fortunately for us the Oregon pension is pretty small and the much better protected UK pension is somewhat larger.

Sounds like if the directors tried raiding the pension funds in the UK they would get a one way ticket to prison! They can't do it anyway because the pension funds have to be in a separate financial company.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on December 09, 2017, 06:00:22 AM
I just logged into my brokerage account and it is showing that the returns I have generated on my stock investments this year are a 18.94% pa.

That is pretty mind blowing, when there was a lot of predictions of flat or down markets for 2017 at the end of last year.

Itís unfortunate that all my NW is not sitting in my brokerage. Itís only about 20% of my NW at this time. Sigh.

A big chunk of my NW (50%) is in a few properties I own and these assets have performed no where near as well as stock in the past year, and values have in fact been declining over the past 6 months. 🙁

But in 2015 and 2016 my property investments performed far stronger than stocks. They were the assets providing 20% returns. I guess that is what diversification provides, a levelling out of volatility by investing across asset classes. My diversification is working so I have to be happy.

I have been slowly changing my investment mix away from property over the past few years, but it takes time.

I also have another big chunk in Australian Superannuation Funds (like 401K) (30% of NW) that is invested by the fund managers with a heavy skew to Australian stocks and Australian fixed interest, which have not performed particularly well in the past year relative to global markets, but still not too bad.

Overall my total portfolio returns have now slipped a smidge below 10% for the year with my properties dragging things down, and me carrying a bit of cash throughout the year. Of course if I could get 10% every year Iíd take it!

Still 19% on stocks WOW!!!.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on December 09, 2017, 07:48:21 AM
I just logged into my brokerage account and it is showing that the returns I have generated on my stock investments this year are a 18.94% pa.

That is pretty mind blowing, when there was a lot of predictions of flat or down markets for 2017 at the end of last year.

Itís unfortunate that all my NW is not sitting in my brokerage. Itís only about 20% of my NW at this time. Sigh.

A big chunk of my NW (50%) is in a few properties I own and these assets have performed no where near as well as stock in the past year, and values have in fact been declining over the past 6 months. 🙁

But in 2015 and 2016 my property investments performed far stronger than stocks. They were the assets providing 20% returns. I guess that is what diversification provides, a levelling out of volatility by investing across asset classes. My diversification is working so I have to be happy.

I have been slowly changing my investment mix away from property over the past few years, but it takes time.

I also have another big chunk in Australian Superannuation Funds (like 401K) (30% of NW) that is invested by the fund managers with a heavy skew to Australian stocks and Australian fixed interest, which have not performed particularly well in the past year relative to global markets, but still not too bad.

Overall my total portfolio returns have now slipped a smidge below 10% for the year with my properties dragging things down, and me carrying a bit of cash throughout the year. Of course if I could get 10% every year Iíd take it!

Still 19% on stocks WOW!!!.

I don't want to knock owning real assets.  I hope to buy a homestead for retirement soon.  Property gains are most easily made on the front end.  We do own property now, an old bayou fishing camp on stilts.   It was cheap and we fixed it up.  Now million dollar homes surround it and have really screwed up the atmosphere.
Stocks can be volatile, I certainly didn't expect a 23% return this year but that's where were at.  It's put us to within about 8% of our FIRE goal.  If I don't move out the goal.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on December 09, 2017, 11:42:49 AM
Sounds like you've jumped right through the $3M point.  Waiting for someone to start a $3M->$4M thread.  I know some here are reluctant, taking to heart the MMM story.  How could anyone have more than $1M and not retire?

I'll take a stab at the question. I was waiting to buy a house, after we'd relocated for work. It took close to 4 years before we could afford a house (super HCOL, Bay Area). Now that we have the house, I'm waiting to determine the full impact on our taxes, and our overall budget. Our house is insanely expensive, and the property tax is as well. We thought we had a good sense of our take home, but with the new tax bill, it's unclear what we'll be left with. We have both state tax as well as property tax, and it's tough to get a sense of how this will play out at our income level.

Aside from the financial sense, we needed to sell our rental property to fully fund the stache that will now allow me to retire/go part-time. That house sold in September. There's also the emotional side. My husband has had some uneasiness about me leaving a high paying job without a few details sorted. We've been working through all of those. I'm planning to FIRE in June of 2018. My husband won't FIRE, both based on desire, and because we have sevenish more years until our kids are out of school & we can sell this house.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Jill P on December 09, 2017, 09:15:39 PM
Welcome, @PhrugalPhan .  It's great to see this thread really coming to life.  Anyway you want to count it up is fine with us.    I hope they don't start a thread with a higher number because it would split the group. 

Somebody asked up thread about frugal travel, aka the high/low life.  We travel strictly on points, and then try to get out of tourist areas.   Also, destinations can be chosen for economic reasons-- that would mean NOT London, Paris, Rome, Iceland, or Hawaii.   Your dollar will stretch if you get out of the mainstream places.  Asia, Eastern Europe and Latin America are bargains.  Consider a housing swap or AirBnB rental.  If you have access to a basic kitchen, you can eat most of your meals in the room.   

@MaybeBabyMustache , it sounds like a prudent move to wait and see how things shake out after buying the pricey home.  You could give it a year or two before figuring out where best to move the pieces on your financial chessboard.    Is your rental showing a positive cash flow?  Would you have a big capital gain if you sold it? That could wipe out any reason to sell.  Can you keep it and take the slow route, meaning use the profit from the rental to pay down your mortgage, instead of selling it?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on December 10, 2017, 08:02:12 AM
Welcome, @PhrugalPhan .  It's great to see this thread really coming to life.  Anyway you want to count it up is fine with us.    I hope they don't start a thread with a higher number because it would split the group. 

Somebody asked up thread about frugal travel, aka the high/low life.  We travel strictly on points, and then try to get out of tourist areas.   Also, destinations can be chosen for economic reasons-- that would mean NOT London, Paris, Rome, Iceland, or Hawaii.   Your dollar will stretch if you get out of the mainstream places.  Asia, Eastern Europe and Latin America are bargains.  Consider a housing swap or AirBnB rental.  If you have access to a basic kitchen, you can eat most of your meals in the room.   

@MaybeBabyMustache , it sounds like a prudent move to wait and see how things shake out after buying the pricey home.  You could give it a year or two before figuring out where best to move the pieces on your financial chessboard.    Is your rental showing a positive cash flow?  Would you have a big capital gain if you sold it? That could wipe out any reason to sell.  Can you keep it and take the slow route, meaning use the profit from the rental to pay down your mortgage, instead of selling it?

The rental house is sold. :-) We sold it in September & cleared about $700K after taxes. We are still waiting for a final number after 2017 ends. But, that was the estimate our accountant gave us. I've set my FIRE date for June to give me the flexibility of making any last minute adjustments as needed, after taxes.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on December 10, 2017, 08:27:39 AM
^Nice number!^. Sounds like CA or East Coast Real Estate. (Sorry if you've mentioned it before) Hopefully the tax estimates were high and there will be a bit more fun money headed your way,
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Jill P on December 10, 2017, 09:03:49 AM


The rental house is sold. :-) We sold it in September & cleared about $700K after taxes. We are still waiting for a final number after 2017 ends. But, that was the estimate our accountant gave us. I've set my FIRE date for June to give me the flexibility of making any last minute adjustments as needed, after taxes.
[/quote]

Nice!  That's a chunk of change.  Are you paying down your mortgage with it? 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on December 10, 2017, 09:04:17 AM
State pensions and city pensions are all susceptible to being cut in a bankruptcy. City of Detroit employees had their pensions lowered due to the bankruptcy. The state of Illinois and the city of Chicago pensions may eventually be cut down in bankruptcy court.

True, the State has visited court a few times trying to cut the benefits paid under PERs.. Each time they have been sent home with their tail between their legs. I think you'r right though, one day they will prevail.

Fortunately for us the Oregon pension is pretty small and the much better protected UK pension is somewhat larger.

Sounds like if the directors tried raiding the pension funds in the UK they would get a one way ticket to prison! They can't do it anyway because the pension funds have to be in a separate financial company.

I'm a bit worried for states/municipalities and their pension plans regarding this new tax plan.  Seems like one intangible effect down might be to place more burden on states/localities.  Might give them more ammunition to go after pensions.  Municipal bonds might also be far more risky after all is said and done.

And my company certainly did not go bankrupt when they eliminated the pension plan for 'younger' workers ( you may be able to guess the company...big tech firm ).  In my opinion it was a blatant $$$ grab from employees to feed share buybacks and such.   As an investor, I do understand 'shareholder value'.  However, for big corporations, the behind the scenes aspects of 'shareholder value' can be extremely ugly.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on December 10, 2017, 09:09:14 AM
Sounds like you've jumped right through the $3M point.  Waiting for someone to start a $3M->$4M thread.  I know some here are reluctant, taking to heart the MMM story.  How could anyone have more than $1M and not retire?

I'll take a stab at the question. I was waiting to buy a house, after we'd relocated for work. It took close to 4 years before we could afford a house (super HCOL, Bay Area). Now that we have the house, I'm waiting to determine the full impact on our taxes, and our overall budget. Our house is insanely expensive, and the property tax is as well. We thought we had a good sense of our take home, but with the new tax bill, it's unclear what we'll be left with. We have both state tax as well as property tax, and it's tough to get a sense of how this will play out at our income level.

Aside from the financial sense, we needed to sell our rental property to fully fund the stache that will now allow me to retire/go part-time. That house sold in September. There's also the emotional side. My husband has had some uneasiness about me leaving a high paying job without a few details sorted. We've been working through all of those. I'm planning to FIRE in June of 2018. My husband won't FIRE, both based on desire, and because we have sevenish more years until our kids are out of school & we can sell this house.


We discussed this above ( I'll forgive you for not reading the entire thread ) :-).  If I were single and/or married with no kids and healthy, then life would be a much different story.  However, we have two kids and one of us has a pre-existing chronic medical condition.   So that changes the outlook tremendously.  If healthcare would at least stabilize ( which it was at least starting to until..you know what happened ), then we could at least plan.  However, there are so many unknowns at so many levels right now that it makes planning extremely tough to do.


Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on December 10, 2017, 09:16:16 AM


The rental house is sold. :-) We sold it in September & cleared about $700K after taxes. We are still waiting for a final number after 2017 ends. But, that was the estimate our accountant gave us. I've set my FIRE date for June to give me the flexibility of making any last minute adjustments as needed, after taxes.

Nice!  That's a chunk of change.  Are you paying down your mortgage with it?
[/quote]

No, we're keeping the money in a mix of investments vs paying it down. There is no tax incentive to pay down the mortgage, and the $700K is part of what will give me the flexibility to leave my job.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: AdrianC on December 10, 2017, 12:30:37 PM
If I were single and/or married with no kids and healthy, then life would be a much different story.  However, we have two kids and one of us has a pre-existing chronic medical condition.   So that changes the outlook tremendously.  If healthcare would at least stabilize ( which it was at least starting to until..you know what happened ), then we could at least plan.  However, there are so many unknowns at so many levels right now that it makes planning extremely tough to do.

Yes. Or you can plan but need a large margin of safety built in.

Three kids here. We can't and don't want to try to live on $40k/year (implied by a stash of $1m).

3X that is more our speed :-)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Jill P on December 10, 2017, 06:37:48 PM
  However, we have two kids and one of us has a pre-existing chronic medical condition.   ...   However, there are so many unknowns at so many levels right now that it makes planning extremely tough to do.

Yes. Or you can plan but need a large margin of safety built in.

Three kids here. We can't and don't want to try to live on $40k/year (implied by a stash of $1m).

3X that is more our speed :-)

Ours too!

Our property taxes and health insurance (2 adults, 2 college aged kids) total about $40K a year.  It's ridiculous.  The insurance isn't even the best, but it's good for us and will cover any catastrophic illnesses or injuries without bankrupting us. 

 I view the property taxes as business expenses, of course, because the rentals we own are our business.    I'd love to live with less overhead, but we like the substantial stream of passive income from the rentals and don't see the benefit to selling them off to simplify.  It's not hard to change a faucet or what not.  We are completely hands on with the rentals, management and repairs.   That's our job, and it averages about 10 hours a month.    We have 4 sources of income and that gives us peace of mind. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: PhrugalPhan on December 10, 2017, 08:02:00 PM
Welcome, @PhrugalPhan .  It's great to see this thread really coming to life.  Anyway you want to count it up is fine with us.    I hope they don't start a thread with a higher number because it would split the group.
Thanks.  While I am not going to be "RE" (Retire Early) because I am already 55, I like to think I have done well considering I have never had an above average salary for this area (Northern VA - though for where I grew up this is very high salary), and I was about at $0 N.W. when I turned 36.  Since then I bought and paid off a house, survived 15 months unemployment, and a divorce.   I made a vow to myself not to be poor and take charge of my life back 20 years ago.  It hasn't been easy, but now I can survive most anything. 

If it wasn't for the pesky pension (a.k.a. golden handcuffs) I might retire in a year when the SO does.  Instead I will probably take extra vacations so we can enjoy her first years of her retirement before I head off into the sunset too.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on December 10, 2017, 09:06:22 PM
My parents live on $30K USD per year ($40k AUD) + paid off house in a low cost area. They get by fine 90% of the time, and can afford a couple of short holidays each year, usually a small cruise every year and maybe a short getaway up the coast. They have dinner out with friends from time to time (certainly not every week), have gym memberships (with a pensioner discount) and spoil their grand children a little bit. They are happy enough but certainly wouldnít mind having a little more financial means.

 Occassionally they face some financial stress like when my BIL wrote off their uninsured only car and had no money to pay for a replacement car for them. My parents managed to sell some of their stash to buy a new car, but I could see the financial angst it caused. My sister will prob pay back my parents for the smashed car one day, maybe she already has, I donít know.

But I donít want my parents life. I want to have greater financial freedom. I want to fly to Europe or Noth America for a couple of months at a time if I choose. I want to live in a more expensive location if I choose. Maybe one day Iíll want a fancier car, maybe I want to have season tickets for the theatre, or to drink at fancy city bars from time to time without worrying about the money.

So I have decided I want double the budget of my parents.... this then creates the need to budget for some taxation as well. Iíll try to structure my affairs to minimise taxes, but expect their to be some leakage.

The biggest difference in budget though is housing. I donít want to live where my parents live, despite growing up there. After much debate on the topic DW and I still canít bring ourselves to accepting living the rest of our lives in a small 1 BR apartment or studio in a desirable area. We want a little more space. Not clown house size, but maybe a place that will have a clown purchase price purely due to location. We are setting aside $750,000 USD ($1M AUD) for a home post FIRE.

So I add all our wishes and dreams up, and consider that as I am in my mid 40s and DW is not quite yet 40, it makes sense to us to work a little longer to give us the extra choices later in life.

So here we are on this thread and not already FIRE.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on December 11, 2017, 07:52:26 AM
  However, we have two kids and one of us has a pre-existing chronic medical condition.   ...   However, there are so many unknowns at so many levels right now that it makes planning extremely tough to do.

Yes. Or you can plan but need a large margin of safety built in.

Three kids here. We can't and don't want to try to live on $40k/year (implied by a stash of $1m).

3X that is more our speed :-)

Ours too!

Our property taxes and health insurance (2 adults, 2 college aged kids) total about $40K a year.  It's ridiculous.  The insurance isn't even the best, but it's good for us and will cover any catastrophic illnesses or injuries without bankrupting us. 

 I view the property taxes as business expenses, of course, because the rentals we own are our business.    I'd love to live with less overhead, but we like the substantial stream of passive income from the rentals and don't see the benefit to selling them off to simplify.  It's not hard to change a faucet or what not.  We are completely hands on with the rentals, management and repairs.   That's our job, and it averages about 10 hours a month.    We have 4 sources of income and that gives us peace of mind.


Exactly...and that is why we are on this thread continuing to save instead of being retired.  :-)

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: LessIsLess on December 11, 2017, 07:56:54 AM
The $3m sounds large, but I suspect reaching the milestone will provide little emotional boost.  On the contrary, it may even trigger a quiet emotional drop, when the "reachers" will sigh and utter these words "Is this it?  What a bummer!" 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on December 11, 2017, 10:08:29 AM
The $3m sounds large, but I suspect reaching the milestone will provide little emotional boost.  On the contrary, it may even trigger a quiet emotional drop, when the "reachers" will sigh and utter these words "Is this it?  What a bummer!"
FTFY

It's completely legitimate that some people have need to reach further.

Here's another perspective: We are FI, but DH's mom has Alzheimer's and lives with us, so DH still works. He loves his job. It has incredible benefits and he walks three tenths of a mile to work. We can't travel as we'd planned and he'd go stir crazy with not enough to do around here. He's four years from the top tier of a lovely Defined Benefit Pension, so why not just let things ride? Sure, you can call us "reachers" but there's no shame in making the best of a bad situation.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on December 11, 2017, 10:54:37 AM
The $3m sounds large, but I suspect reaching the milestone will provide little emotional boost.  On the contrary, it may even trigger a quiet emotional drop, when the "reachers" will sigh and utter these words "Is this it?  What a bummer!"
FTFY

It's completely legitimate that some people have need to reach further.

Here's another perspective: We are FI, but DH's mom has Alzheimer's and lives with us, so DH still works. He loves his job. It has incredible benefits and he walks three tenths of a mile to work. We can't travel as we'd planned and he'd go stir crazy with not enough to do around here. He's four years from the top tier of a lovely Defined Benefit Pension, so why not just let things ride? Sure, you can call us "reachers" but there's no shame in making the best of a bad situation.

Yes everyone's situation is unique and different.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on December 11, 2017, 11:40:41 AM
The $3m sounds large, but I suspect reaching the milestone will provide little emotional boost.  On the contrary, it may even trigger a quiet emotional drop, when the "reachers" will sigh and utter these words "Is this it?  What a bummer!"
FTFY

It's completely legitimate that some people have need to reach further.

Here's another perspective: We are FI, but DH's mom has Alzheimer's and lives with us, so DH still works. He loves his job. It has incredible benefits and he walks three tenths of a mile to work. We can't travel as we'd planned and he'd go stir crazy with not enough to do around here. He's four years from the top tier of a lovely Defined Benefit Pension, so why not just let things ride? Sure, you can call us "reachers" but there's no shame in making the best of a bad situation.

Yes everyone's situation is unique and different.
Thanks, David. It's great that you get it. LIL's comment felt unnecessarily condescending, hence my reply.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on December 11, 2017, 12:03:34 PM
Message boards lack the non-written emotional/verbal/auditory cues and it's possible that the poster wasn't intending to be condescending.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Laura33 on December 11, 2017, 12:56:15 PM
The $3m sounds large, but I suspect reaching the milestone will provide little emotional boost.  On the contrary, it may even trigger a quiet emotional drop, when the "reachers" will sigh and utter these words "Is this it?  What a bummer!"

Or, in my case:  "Is this it?  Whew!  Hallelujah!!"

Not because of a specific number on an investment statement.  Because of the massive relief when I realized I didn't need to work, ever again -- that I could walk any time I wanted to; that DH's job could implode, and I could still walk, and we wouldn't need to sell the house and uproot our lives and chase jobs across the country.  Because we've done all of that, more than once, and it was scary, and it sucked, and there's still part of me that can't believe my luck that all that worry and pressure is really gone for good.

IMO, the biggest luxury in life -- the biggest privilege -- is being able to figure out who you want to be without even considering how to support yourself doing it.  It is a privilege I never had growing up; heck, if you'd asked me back then, I'd have told you that kind of freedom existed only in the world of trust funds and silver spoons. 

I still don't know the answer, btw.  But the weight that has been lifted from my shoulders while I'm figuring it out is immense.  And the funny thing is that I didn't even know there was a giant weight on my chest until it was gone and I could suddenly breathe.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on December 11, 2017, 05:42:23 PM
Message boards lack the non-written emotional/verbal/auditory cues and it's possible that the poster wasn't intending to be condescending.
Sure, it's possible.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: soccerluvof4 on December 12, 2017, 05:49:33 AM
Message boards lack the non-written emotional/verbal/auditory cues and it's possible that the poster wasn't intending to be condescending.
Sure, it's possible.



Yes, its all interpretation especially if they don't come back and support their comments. One might interpret it as if they didn't have another challenge to keep them busy like disappointed in a way. And the obvious is , everyone's situation is different. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Jill P on December 14, 2017, 09:47:04 PM
The $3m sounds large, but I suspect reaching the milestone will provide little emotional boost.  On the contrary, it may even trigger a quiet emotional drop, when the "reachers" will sigh and utter these words "Is this it?  What a bummer!"

Oh, I don't think so.   I can't imagine anyone who's saved and planned and hit 3M and thinking "What a bummer!"  I do think that one becomes more relaxed about it.  The higher the number gets, though, the more it feels like another slice of cake.   It's good, and then better, and then really good and even better.    I'm still kind of surprised, it's so cool, to have a high NW.  Like, wow, that's  me, squarely in the multi-millionaire ranks no matter how I slice and dice my NW.

I just like to see my NW grow.  It's all good.  There's plenty of leeway now for little ups and downs.    I track my NW now, maybe more than ever thanks to Mint, and the bigger the number gets, the more I realize that we can most likely roll with any punches.  There's no real goal to hit a higher number anymore.  My plan is to just live my life the same way I always have- frugal as a mindset- and if it keeps going up, great.   And, it does keep going up, and I'm not doing anything different at all.   My focus isn't on growing NW, it's on being debt free.  Our debt/NW is less than 25%, maybe more like 20%, but I'm chipping away at it, and it's great to pay off a mortgage, or get one down below 100K, or whatever my current goal happens to be.    All of our debt is mortgage debt, in case you were wondering.  4 mortgages, with one 62Ker squarely pegged to be paid off with our surplus liquidity in the first quarter of 2018.   I paid off 2 in 2017.     If I snowball correctly and with discipline, it will take about 7 years.   The rentals will pay off in about 4 years.  I want to aggressively tackle the rental mortgages, and then will reevaluate for my home.  Our debt is about 50/50 rentals and the house.