Author Topic: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!  (Read 74350 times)

Car Jack

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 888
Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #600 on: January 01, 2019, 10:36:42 AM »
I can't imagine I need more than $30-$35k a year to live including taxes. That would be about a 2.3% withdrawal rate for me.
If I were to spend $40k I would feel like I was living a life of ridiculous luxury.

But my plan is to continue to work part-time now that I'm officially retired. I enjoy my work a lot. I'm just reducing all the commuting I used to do.

Do you mean $30k to $35k plus $20k for health insurance, deductibles, copays and out of network costs?

DavidAnnArbor

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1849
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #601 on: January 01, 2019, 10:54:33 AM »
I can't imagine I need more than $30-$35k a year to live including taxes. That would be about a 2.3% withdrawal rate for me.
If I were to spend $40k I would feel like I was living a life of ridiculous luxury.

But my plan is to continue to work part-time now that I'm officially retired. I enjoy my work a lot. I'm just reducing all the commuting I used to do.

Do you mean $30k to $35k plus $20k for health insurance, deductibles, copays and out of network costs?


I don't pay $20K for health insurance, I'm using Obamacare and I get subsidies, so I pay practically nothing. I don't use medical care so I don't have these yearly deductibles, copays and out of network costs to pay.

Exflyboy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5720
  • Age: 57
  • Location: Corvallis, Oregon
  • Expat Brit living in the New World..:)
Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #602 on: January 01, 2019, 11:41:25 AM »
I can't imagine I need more than $30-$35k a year to live including taxes. That would be about a 2.3% withdrawal rate for me.
If I were to spend $40k I would feel like I was living a life of ridiculous luxury.

But my plan is to continue to work part-time now that I'm officially retired. I enjoy my work a lot. I'm just reducing all the commuting I used to do.

Do you mean $30k to $35k plus $20k for health insurance, deductibles, copays and out of network costs?


I don't pay $20K for health insurance, I'm using Obamacare and I get subsidies, so I pay practically nothing. I don't use medical care so I don't have these yearly deductibles, copays and out of network costs to pay.

We are in the same boat but this happy situation is somewhat tentative. What if you get cancer and your on a bronze plan.. Well you'll end up writing a check for $13,200 (in our case) plus whatever the insurance company decides they don't cover .. Pre-approval are the first words out of your mouth when the dr proposes a course of treatment!

If we were to have an accident more than about 40 miles away from home we are out of network.. The ACA has basically no protection for OON accident costs (despite what they say), the insurance company will simply pay the OON provider what they pay the in network provider.. you will get balance billed for the rest. This assumes you don't live in one of the very few states where balance billing is illegal.

So yeah, as long as nothing goes wrong then we will pay almost nothing for HC..:)

Threshkin

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 942
  • Location: Colorado
    • My Journal
Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #603 on: January 01, 2019, 11:57:14 AM »
I can't imagine I need more than $30-$35k a year to live including taxes. That would be about a 2.3% withdrawal rate for me.
If I were to spend $40k I would feel like I was living a life of ridiculous luxury.

But my plan is to continue to work part-time now that I'm officially retired. I enjoy my work a lot. I'm just reducing all the commuting I used to do.

Do you mean $30k to $35k plus $20k for health insurance, deductibles, copays and out of network costs?


I don't pay $20K for health insurance, I'm using Obamacare and I get subsidies, so I pay practically nothing. I don't use medical care so I don't have these yearly deductibles, copays and out of network costs to pay.

We are in the same boat but this happy situation is somewhat tentative. What if you get cancer and your on a bronze plan.. Well you'll end up writing a check for $13,200 (in our case) plus whatever the insurance company decides they don't cover .. Pre-approval are the first words out of your mouth when the dr proposes a course of treatment!

If we were to have an accident more than about 40 miles away from home we are out of network.. The ACA has basically no protection for OON accident costs (despite what they say), the insurance company will simply pay the OON provider what they pay the in network provider.. you will get balance billed for the rest. This assumes you don't live in one of the very few states where balance billing is illegal.

So yeah, as long as nothing goes wrong then we will pay almost nothing for HC..:)

Exactly!  Your health care expenses may be low today but never assume they will always be low.  ACA subsidies are at risk, accidents happen, people get sick, you get old.  I pay <$120 a year for ACA insurance after subsidies and have no other significant medical expenses. But I budget $12K a year for health care (and I suspect this is low). 

One of my biggest peeves with ACA is that if you travel around the country you loose your health care coverage in most cases. 

Sometimes a think this is a conspiracy to keep people trapped in their community and prevent them from traveling to learn what life is like in different places.  Then I take off my tinfoil hat and everything gets better again.

DavidAnnArbor

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1849
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #604 on: January 01, 2019, 12:22:31 PM »
I agree that the healthcare costs are always a possible future burden. That's why I live frugally so that I'll be prepared financially in the event of an expensive health issue.
When I get to be 60 years old I hope to obtain retiree health care from a part time job I have.

Exflyboy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5720
  • Age: 57
  • Location: Corvallis, Oregon
  • Expat Brit living in the New World..:)
Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #605 on: January 01, 2019, 12:37:46 PM »
funny (not) but DW was saying how she would like to drive around the country to visit all the National parks one day. "I don't think thats a good idea" says I due to being wide open to almost any medical cost from a road accident or falling in the parks out of network.

The joke of it is.. We went to Europe in 2018, Ukraine, Slovenia, Croatia, UK and Ireland.. Travelled from Croatia to the UK by train.. Not a care in the World!.. Why? Well we bought travel insurance from Berkshire Hathaway that cost less than $50 for both of us for the 6 weeks.. Yes 50 bucks to anywhere, two people for 6 weeks!

So we can go anywhere in the world but can't visit our own National parks for fear of being made medically bankrupt!

Note I have not looked at the cost of buying a similar policy to cover the USA.. But still

DavidAnnArbor

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1849
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #606 on: January 01, 2019, 01:00:54 PM »
Maybe a health insurance travel policy would solve that problem for travel in the US ?

Exflyboy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5720
  • Age: 57
  • Location: Corvallis, Oregon
  • Expat Brit living in the New World..:)
Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #607 on: January 01, 2019, 02:00:24 PM »
Maybe a health insurance travel policy would solve that problem for travel in the US ?

Maybe.. Certainly an avenue of research.

I do think we tend to hand wave the medical issues of RE a bit too much. MMM himself kind of brushed it off in his latest but one article telling folks to do what we have done essentially with a bronze plan.

Thats wonderful if you are fit and healthy, but if you got diabetes or cancer (or get it after you RE) then your medical costs are going to skyrocket. So you really ought to plan for an extra $15k+ to be added to your budget just in case.

I couldn't imagine coming down with a life threatening illness and then having to worry about how you are possibly going to pay for it.

ysette9

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3603
  • Location: Bay Area, CA
    • Insert Snappy Title Here (Journal)
Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #608 on: January 01, 2019, 02:47:03 PM »
Maybe a health insurance travel policy would solve that problem for travel in the US ?
I believe I’ve read that travel insurance policies specifically exclude health care in the US. I believe it was GoCurryCracker where I read about that.

Threshkin

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 942
  • Location: Colorado
    • My Journal
Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #609 on: January 01, 2019, 07:03:25 PM »
Maybe a health insurance travel policy would solve that problem for travel in the US ?
I believe Iíve read that travel insurance policies specifically exclude health care in the US. I believe it was GoCurryCracker where I read about that.

You are correct.  The US is specifically excluded from most, if not all, travel HC policies.

pecunia

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 680
Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #610 on: January 01, 2019, 09:54:41 PM »

-SNIP-

You are correct.  The US is specifically excluded from most, if not all, travel HC policies.

It's almost an incentive to travel internationally after retiring in the US.  An earlier post said about $50 for 6 weeks of travel.

52 weeks in a year / 6 weeks coverage = 8.66 factor for an entire year

50 X 8.7 = 435 bucks for yearly insurance

That is worth some thought.  Maybe a year in the Outback is in order.

MiserlyMiser

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 76
Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #611 on: January 02, 2019, 03:59:21 PM »
My NW was about $40k higher on December 31 than it was on January 1, but only because my salary offset the market drop.  And I had such high hopes during the good months of 2018--in my more optimistic moments, I thought I might be approaching $3M by now.

Looking back at 2018, I spent just over a 3% WR.  I need to find things to cut, because it doesn't include healthcare, which my employer is currently paying for.

DavidAnnArbor

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1849
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #612 on: January 02, 2019, 05:05:00 PM »
My NW was about $40k higher on December 31 than it was on January 1, but only because my salary offset the market drop.  And I had such high hopes during the good months of 2018--in my more optimistic moments, I thought I might be approaching $3M by now.

Looking back at 2018, I spent just over a 3% WR.  I need to find things to cut, because it doesn't include healthcare, which my employer is currently paying for.

So you're spending $75,000 a  year?  That's a lot of money. What is your mortgage payment $3,000 a month?
What's driving this high amount of spending?

MiserlyMiser

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 76
Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #613 on: January 02, 2019, 06:45:38 PM »
It *is* high . . . I've figured part of it out.  I took that number from Personal Capital, which doesn't always classify things correctly (for example, my dividends are automatically reinvested, but PC classifies that as an expense), or recognize expenses I get reimbursed for (about $10k in work travel this year, $780 for phone).  Subtracting the things that shouldn't have been included, I'm down to about $60k.  Which is still high. 

(I initially included more detail, but I edited because I'm not comfortable having all of that information in public.  I am comfortable sharing that my mortgage is $24k ($1,800/month + taxes), I went to the eye doctor too many times, spent a lot of money on groceries (despite not eating meat) and on utilities (despite keeping my house at 60 degrees & colder at night), gave more money than usual this year to charities/political campaigns/go-fund-mes, and spent a lot of money on my dog, who recently passed away.  I haven't accounted for $10k in expenses, which I will track down somehow.)

« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 06:59:10 PM by MiserlyMiser »

DavidAnnArbor

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1849
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #614 on: January 02, 2019, 07:36:59 PM »
oh ok that's a high cost of living for the housing, and may just be what it is in your area.
i'm sorry about the loss of your dog. that's an important companion.

MiserlyMiser

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 76
Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #615 on: January 03, 2019, 11:45:10 AM »
Thanks, I appreciate it.  Not everyone takes emotional connections to pets seriously (I do), so I don't talk about it much.

At $60k spending in a MCOL, I do think it's high and there is room to cut, I will just need to dig a little to figure out what it is.

DavidAnnArbor

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1849
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #616 on: January 03, 2019, 04:25:49 PM »
I think you're in a comfortable withdrawal rate though. Sounds like you're only just  a little over 2%.
Anything less than 3.5% withdrawal rate has never in the past failed.

JoJoP

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 96
Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #617 on: January 13, 2019, 02:28:58 PM »
I'm new here (at least new at posting), and $2-$3M group seems to be where I am. I was on that traditional retire at 65 path, and really course corrected about 3 years ago after googling "How much is enough" and discovering the FIRE movement on the internet. I'm 52, working as a mid-level corporate manager, and my wife works in the service industry in Southern CA. I started transforming my life toward Mustachianism without knowing it about three years ago - renting out our suburban house, moving to a 2 bedroom near work, and eliminating a 3-hour round-trip commute. Now I save about 1/3 of my annual income and have liquid investments of about $2.4M. I'm targeting quitting my job in about four years at 56 when our youngest is through college and that large variable is behind us. Though I know I could go FIRE today, we would like to move back to our home community in the suburbs to stay long term, and that isn't exactly inexpensive.

I can't say I can closely relate to the 30-somethings retiring on $40k a year, but I believe these principles can be applied by anyone's situation wherever they are at. It has certainly changed my perspective and direction, and I appreciate reading all of these stories!

Hi and welcome to the thread, XC1984!  I've been traveling abroad and just got home, so excuse this insert into a now diverged topic.

 There are lots of 40-50+ people on the site, and many are in this thread.  Frugality and time have done the job for many of the thread participants.   The shared stories and dialogue are fantastic.  I'm in my late 50's and my spouse is older, so we are also on the older (and richer) side of the posters here.  We worked for longer than many Mustachians, saved like crazy and made real estate investments that panned out.  All that is its own path.  There's still plenty to talk about and and lots of great input from like minded people of all ages.  As you say, the principals apply to everyone at every age.  I'm here as a kindred spirit even though we aren't as frugal as we once were-- during the earning, saving and investment stages of our lives. 

soccerluvof4

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3953
  • Location: Artic Midwest
  • Retired at 50
    • My Journal
Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #618 on: Today at 02:41:52 AM »
I'm new here (at least new at posting), and $2-$3M group seems to be where I am. I was on that traditional retire at 65 path, and really course corrected about 3 years ago after googling "How much is enough" and discovering the FIRE movement on the internet. I'm 52, working as a mid-level corporate manager, and my wife works in the service industry in Southern CA. I started transforming my life toward Mustachianism without knowing it about three years ago - renting out our suburban house, moving to a 2 bedroom near work, and eliminating a 3-hour round-trip commute. Now I save about 1/3 of my annual income and have liquid investments of about $2.4M. I'm targeting quitting my job in about four years at 56 when our youngest is through college and that large variable is behind us. Though I know I could go FIRE today, we would like to move back to our home community in the suburbs to stay long term, and that isn't exactly inexpensive.

I can't say I can closely relate to the 30-somethings retiring on $40k a year, but I believe these principles can be applied by anyone's situation wherever they are at. It has certainly changed my perspective and direction, and I appreciate reading all of these stories!

Hi and welcome to the thread, XC1984!  I've been traveling abroad and just got home, so excuse this insert into a now diverged topic.

 There are lots of 40-50+ people on the site, and many are in this thread.  Frugality and time have done the job for many of the thread participants.   The shared stories and dialogue are fantastic.  I'm in my late 50's and my spouse is older, so we are also on the older (and richer) side of the posters here.  We worked for longer than many Mustachians, saved like crazy and made real estate investments that panned out.  All that is its own path.  There's still plenty to talk about and and lots of great input from like minded people of all ages.  As you say, the principals apply to everyone at every age.  I'm here as a kindred spirit even though we aren't as frugal as we once were-- during the earning, saving and investment stages of our lives.




Double that sentiment. You near where I was/am when I fired with 4 kids at home, 2 in college now and there are alot of unexpected costs with that at least I didn't think about even though we were fortunate that one got a full ride and one a partial . But 2 still at home. I sound kinda like you in that I started getting frugal in my later 40's and stumbled across MMM by accident then at 50 was just done.
So welcome @XC1984 . Hopefully we can get a descent bull run again so I can get back on the other-side of 3M as i got my toes wet for a few days when the market peaked and felt good.


As far as all the HC talk this is what scares the shit out of me the most and it Just sucks that we don't have a better way. Pay all these high deductible for Maybe coverage who knows and then have to save on top of it to protect for the future. Just seems harder and harder for those coming up if they want to A) fire early and B) be protected decently.

Car Jack

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 888
Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #619 on: Today at 07:15:35 AM »
I agree that the healthcare costs are always a possible future burden. That's why I live frugally so that I'll be prepared financially in the event of an expensive health issue.
When I get to be 60 years old I hope to obtain retiree health care from a part time job I have.

You've certainly found an ideal part time job.  In my full time job, I'm still paying $10k a year in deductibles, co-pays, and out of network stuff.  A part time job with better insurance than that?  Wow.  Amazing to me.
« Last Edit: Today at 07:28:12 AM by Car Jack »

EscapeVelocity2020

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1845
  • Age: 45
  • Location: Houston
    • EscapeVelocity2020
Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
« Reply #620 on: Today at 09:12:56 PM »
We all need to stay smart enough to add HC benefits (along with 401k match, HSA contribution, paid vacation, business-expensed travel) compensation.  As in, if I ER, I need to offset these...

I get the idea that free time offsets much of this, but after 5 - 10 years, it must be sustainable...