Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!

[Car Jack]

Ah.....   I updated my investments spread sheet today, just for fun.  Equities had been getting higher as a % before this latest slide.  I'm almost back to exactly 50/50, where my target is.  The silver lining, I guess is that I don't have to rebalance.  It's done for me.

[Bateaux]

So this thread has gone quiet as most of us have probably been kicked out of the club.. Temporarily..:)

As of today Mint says 1.925  Looking at the current market could be going lower.  Got three houses, two paid off.  I not completely a poser. 

[Bateaux]

I really hope this is the start of the looming recession.   It's inevitable so I  personally want it now.  I've decided to extend to 2020 for FIRE and the recovery could be timed right for me.  Who knows.   Still buying,  we'll probably toss in another 150K or more of new money by 2020.  Medicare for all would make me consider going earlier.  If not I still have my Cadillac plan as long as I work.  With the Cadi I don't qualify for a HSA.  Guess the Roth can supplant that somewhat. 

Keep posting guys.  I enjoy your company.

[Exflyboy]

I really hope this is the start of the looming recession.   It's inevitable so I  personally want it now.  I've decided to extend to 2020 for FIRE and the recovery could be timed right for me.  Who knows.   Still buying,  we'll probably toss in another 150K or more of new money by 2020.  Medicare for all would make me consider going earlier.  If not I still have my Cadillac plan as long as I work.  With the Cadi I don't qualify for a HSA.  Guess the Roth can supplant that somewhat. 

Keep posting guys.  I enjoy your company.

I don't think the recession is on the horizon yet.

If I count my "funny money" aka pension I'm still well in the club.. But if we get to a 25%+ pullback I maybe out.. I'll be rolling more into stocks from my bond funds at that point though.

[Dicey]

So this thread has gone quiet as most of us have probably been kicked out of the club.. Temporarily..:)

Or we're just busy doing other things besides checking our account balances.

[2Birds1Stone]

Y'all get no sympathy from us peons =P

[MaybeBabyMustache]

Still there, but only with our property value included

[itchyfeet]

Still here too, as a high % of my NE is property.

But with Sydney property values sliding, the AUD falling against the USD, and now my stock portfolio having palpitations, no matter how much I can save of my salary I am still slipping backwards.

@Bateaux, we’re not joining you in OMY yet, and it remains unlikely, but the topic has been floated over the dinner table.

We have a bit of a tax issue, driving us to fIRE this coming June. That, and I have had enough of working.

In Australia, if you are an expat you can rent out your home in Australia for upto 6 years (6 year rule)and if you return within that time frame your home can retain CGT exempt status. 6 years will hit us in early 2020. As our home has appreciated in value a lot over the past 5 years, and as we intend to sell in the next 5 years the CGT exemption is worth quite a lot to us, maybe $80-100K. We’d have to work many extra months to offset that tax if we don’t get back to Oz within 6years.

Tax laws have changed whilst we have been abroad, and we have a window to sell before 30 June this year and not pay any CGT. Out tenants lease expires in March, so one option for us is to sell between March and June, and then we could keep working OS for a year or 2 longer, but then we wouldn’t have a home in Sydney to return to. As we had lived in Sydney our whole lives before heading OS for work, closing the door on Sydney right now feels very final and something we are not super comfortable with. Ideally we will return artiste to Sydney and then from our Sydney base start exploring where our long term Post FIRE home will be. We have no real idea today.

But like you, the security of a little more in the kitty would sure be nice.

[Bateaux]

Itchy good luck with it all and I'm personally cheering for you to get to FIRE as early as possible.   Don't OMY unless you have to.   
I got out on my bicycle yesterday and rode around Baton Rouge, Louisiana.   I normally ride in New Orleans.   I live between the two cities.  It is amazing the difference between the two.   New Orleans, the Big Easy is so laid back and almost stress free.  Automobile drivers see you on a bike and happily yield to you giving you a safe distance.  Baton Rouge is a stressed out city.  Everyone is in a hurry to be at work and in a hurry to be home.  In a hurry to get wherever it is they are going.  I have to be extra careful and cautious when there on my bicycle.   Baton Rouge has the potential to be a wonderful place if it would just slow down, park the car and encourage walking or biking.  OMY syndrome is living Baton Rouge style and FIRE is New Orleans style.   New Orleans culture is what I was raised on.  So I'm ready to FIRE.  November the 6th is a huge day here in the US.  Depending upon how Americans vote will say a lot about when I FIRE.  The main issue is with affordable health care.
Good luck.

[onlykelsey]

Still nowhere near there (I was at about 780K earlier this fall, including equity, and now at 706K) but I'm trying to think of this as good timing for me since I'm still accumulating.

@Bateaux , that's so interesting.  What are the big employers in Baton Rouge?  Is that where the difference in culture comes from?

[Bateaux]

Still nowhere near there (I was at about 780K earlier this fall, including equity, and now at 706K) but I'm trying to think of this as good timing for me since I'm still accumulating.

@Bateaux , that's so interesting.  What are the big employers in Baton Rouge?  Is that where the difference in culture comes from?

Baton Rouge is largely a blue collar town.  Lot's of oil refineries and chemical plants.  It's also the capital city so there are government jobs as well.  New Orleans is mainly a tourist destination.   Not much manufacturing in NOLA these days. 

[Exflyboy]

Aww crap.. why is it the juicy pullbacks happen when I'm on vacation? I really don't like delving into my online accounts from unknown WIFI connections... Two days before we leave Europe and the market is on its way back up.

So much for that re-balance!

Hopefully it will take another dive later this week.

[JoJoP]

So this thread has gone quiet as most of us have probably been kicked out of the club.. Temporarily..:)

Nah, we're just waiting for you to get home from your trip and liven things up again. 

[wannabe-stache]

Aww crap.. why is it the juicy pullbacks happen when I'm on vacation? I really don't like delving into my online accounts from unknown WIFI connections... Two days before we leave Europe and the market is on its way back up.

So much for that re-balance!

Hopefully it will take another dive later this week.

U spoke a bit too soon.

[Exflyboy]

I did speak too soon.. But as I will be back on Thursday I expect the market to be fully recovered by then...:)

[MaybeBabyMustache]

Our 401Ks are down six figures, so that hurts, but we won't be making any changes there. I was sitting on an enormous pile of cash while we decided next steps on investing, so that was serendipitous. We also have a ton tied up in publicly traded company stock options, so we are down about $300K month on month. There have been some minor (compared to the stock) housing adjustments as well in there.

[Dicey]

Ouch! I just checked one of our accounts and it's dipped below $1M. It's not our only one, but it's the easiest one to look up and has the best graphics. I tend to be an accumulator, and when the market does these dips, I like to throw our extra cash in. It's market timing, but only in a little tiny way, it's not our whole financial plan, lol. It's killing me not to do this right now, but we're in the middle of a flip and I don't want to end up short of cash at the end of the project. MPP for sure.

[itchyfeet]

sign me up for the “Yikes! I lost over $100K in October Club” too.

[soccerluvof4]

I was down about 300k as well but the last 3 days are bring it back some so a little of the sting gone. Its gonna do what its gonna do. I had some cash I was just gonna put in the other day and it bounced so I will wait.

[Exflyboy]

So I get back home today and of course the market is one its way back up.. No rebalance for me (probably)...:)

[PhrugalPhan]

So this thread has gone quiet as most of us have probably been kicked out of the club.. Temporarily..:)

Probably true in my case but I just don't check so I don't feel bad. I'm going on vacation starting tomorrow so that will keep me distracted for now.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Indeed, I don't check my NW very often since crossing the 2MM threshold.  I have more than enough in NW and I'm still earning and stashing pretty handily.  If I happen to slip out of the club due to a market correction or collapse, I'll still be putting money in and eventually return to 2 or more million.  It was much harder in my 20's (earning 40k vs. high federal and state tax) vs. now...

I spend more time these days gaming my airline and hotel status for freebies :)

[Exflyboy]

Indeed, I don't check my NW very often since crossing the 2MM threshold.  I have more than enough in NW and I'm still earning and stashing pretty handily.  If I happen to slip out of the club due to a market correction or collapse, I'll still be putting money in and eventually return to 2 or more million.  It was much harder in my 20's (earning 40k vs. high federal and state tax) vs. now...

I spend more time these days gaming my airline and hotel status for freebies :)

This "almost" makes me want to go back to work.. almost..:)

[Exflyboy]

I just did a rebalance of the portfolio and was pleasantly surprised our liquid investments are only about $50k below membership level.

Pensions and paid off house puts us firmly back in of course.

Not too bad at all. If this is the start to an ugly bear market I will gradually increase my stock allocation on the way down, because.. well why not?

[Bateaux]

Still about 35K below club level in investment assets.   We've recovered from the worst but, still about 80K or so down from the peak.  We'd be in go get a job territory if we didn't already have jobs. 

[Exflyboy]

Still about 35K below club level in investment assets.   We've recovered from the worst but, still about 80K or so down from the peak.  We'd be in go get a job territory if we didn't already have jobs.

Yo're probably further "out" today.. Mind you you can accumulate some more on the way down, I might have to start drawing a pension at this rate..:)

[Bateaux]

My plan has always been to work through the next recession.   Problem is the recession has been too long in coming.   I'm wanting to FIRE post recovery in order to avoid the stress of spending down principal.   Work isn't nearly as stressful to me as spending  savings in a recession.

[Exflyboy]

My plan has always been to work through the next recession.   Problem is the recession has been too long in coming.   I'm wanting to FIRE post recovery in order to avoid the stress of spending down principal.   Work isn't nearly as stressful to me as spending  savings in a recession.

Yeah I know what you mean.. Trouble is left to me it would have been OMD... (one more decade).!!!

I just did an end of year spending projection and it came out to a 1.5% WR, even with some mighty one off expenditures and a "yuge" vacation at $6k... Sometimes enough really is enough!

[DavidAnnArbor]

It's helpful to do those projections because it provides the big picture which helps to calm the nerves during these trying times.

[JoJoP]

I'd rather keep working than spend down principal. No matter how big my 'stashe is, I just can't bear to see it go down.   We're self employed, so "work" has flexibility and can be anything we want it to be.  Most young people would call our work a "side hustle,"  even though, post FIRE, it's the only hustle we've got.   Our retirement is based on real estate rental income, so there's always some DIY aspect to it.  But, nonetheless, dipping into principal is the antithesis of my climb to wealth.   

[markbike528CBX]

I'd rather keep working than spend down principal. No matter how big my 'stashe is, I just can't bear to see it go down.   We're self employed, so "work" has flexibility and can be anything we want it to be.  Most young people would call our work a "side hustle,"  even though, post FIRE, it's the only hustle we've got.   Our retirement is based on real estate rental income, so there's always some DIY aspect to it.  But, nonetheless, dipping into principal is the antithesis of my climb to wealth.

So, joining the 2065 cohort then? 

[DavidAnnArbor]

And the stock market continues its march downward.

[Exflyboy]

and now its turning up.. something must have happened?

[Dicey]

And the stock market continues its march downward.

and now its turning up.. something must have happened?

Didn't really notice the time, but today when I logged on to the account that had slipped below $1M last time I checked, I was pleased to see it's back up over $1M. Apropos of nothing, really, because we're not changing anything. Just watching the bouncing ball.

[ysette9]

I lurk on this thread from time to time because I can’t wait to join. We are somewhere a little north of $1.8 depending on the market’s mood, not counting house equity. In the meantime I’ll get inspiration here and just keep swimming...

[Exflyboy]

I lurk on this thread from time to time because I can’t wait to join. We are somewhere a little north of $1.8 depending on the market’s mood, not counting house equity. In the meantime I’ll get inspiration here and just keep swimming...

Are you RE'd yet Ysette or still accumulating? If accumulating I suspect that we might have a couple of down years then you'll pop up to $2M+ quite rapidly, depending on your allocation..:)

[Bateaux]

I've recently become friends with someone that is a world adventurer and successful business owner.  I hope to have a conversation  with him about FIRE this coming week.  I hope to hear that I'm FIRE ready by 2020.  I know I should be able to make the decision on my own.  Like a medical diagnosis, I think it's best to have multiple opinions.

[soccerluvof4]

With being fire'd and investing only about 1k a month so much is dependent on the market so I haven't been able to get back over the number since the decline BUT have moved about a third of the way back. Is what it is. Happy to be at least where I am in the conversation.

[Exflyboy]

With being fire'd and investing only about 1k a month so much is dependent on the market so I haven't been able to get back over the number since the decline BUT have moved about a third of the way back. Is what it is. Happy to be at least where I am in the conversation.

I'm confused.. You're FIRED and you are investing $1k per month?? How so?.. Montser rental income or some other firehose of cash?

[soccerluvof4]

With being fire'd and investing only about 1k a month so much is dependent on the market so I haven't been able to get back over the number since the decline BUT have moved about a third of the way back. Is what it is. Happy to be at least where I am in the conversation.

I'm confused.. You're FIRED and you are investing $1k per month?? How so?.. Montser rental income or some other firehose of cash?

I'm fire'd. My wife after 2 years because of the Healthcare Unknowns and having 4 kids took a flexible job that allows us to get the  benefits and some income. Should of clarified better. But we hit a tad above 3 then the market tanked and we did some remodeling and stuff but hoping to get back there . We will see.

[ysette9]

I lurk on this thread from time to time because I can’t wait to join. We are somewhere a little north of $1.8 depending on the market’s mood, not counting house equity. In the meantime I’ll get inspiration here and just keep swimming...

Are you RE'd yet Ysette or still accumulating? If accumulating I suspect that we might have a couple of down years then you'll pop up to $2M+ quite rapidly, depending on your allocation..:)

Still accumulating. In 2018 we will have saved something north of $200k between all accounts and should hopefully be able to do similarly next year, so I feel like we are sprinting to the finish line. But as you allude to, the market forces really are the ones that determine when we will reach our number at this stage of the game. We are supposed to be moving more into bonds now in preparation of reaching FI. Something for my husband and I to discuss in more detail during our next money date.

[Threshkin]

As members of this club it is interesting to watch our NW move in big swings lately.  Prior to 2018 the US market has had very volatility for several years and big swings were unusual.  This year has had periods of high volatility.

Having your NW drop more than a full year of expenses in under 24 hours can be disconcerting.  But then we remember that we carry sufficient reserves to carry us through most historical downturns.

We are big believers in having Fat-FIRE assets coupled with Thin-FIRE or normal FIRE expenses.  We would much rather have excess money in old age than being worried about running out.

[Exflyboy]

As members of this club it is interesting to watch our NW move in big swings lately.  Prior to 2018 the US market has had very volatility for several years and big swings were unusual.  This year has had periods of high volatility.

Having your NW drop more than a full year of expenses in under 24 hours can be disconcerting.  But then we remember that we carry sufficient reserves to carry us through most historical downturns.

We are big believers in having Fat-FIRE assets coupled with Thin-FIRE or normal FIRE expenses.  We would much rather have excess money in old age than being worried about running out.

Same here.. We are running at about 13 years worth expenses in Bond funds (8 years if you don't count our rental income).. That should be sufficient..:)

[Bateaux]

As members of this club it is interesting to watch our NW move in big swings lately.  Prior to 2018 the US market has had very volatility for several years and big swings were unusual.  This year has had periods of high volatility.

Having your NW drop more than a full year of expenses in under 24 hours can be disconcerting.  But then we remember that we carry sufficient reserves to carry us through most historical downturns.

We are big believers in having Fat-FIRE assets coupled with Thin-FIRE or normal FIRE expenses.  We would much rather have excess money in old age than being worried about running out.

Same here.. We are running at about 13 years worth expenses in Bond funds (8 years if you don't count our rental income).. That should be sufficient..:)

Instead of another race to thread, should we call the next level the "Race to Fat FIRE?"

I like it, I like it a lot.   Now, to get our accounts moving forward again and not backwards.  The bear is starting to roar.

[Exflyboy]

As members of this club it is interesting to watch our NW move in big swings lately.  Prior to 2018 the US market has had very volatility for several years and big swings were unusual.  This year has had periods of high volatility.

Having your NW drop more than a full year of expenses in under 24 hours can be disconcerting.  But then we remember that we carry sufficient reserves to carry us through most historical downturns.

We are big believers in having Fat-FIRE assets coupled with Thin-FIRE or normal FIRE expenses.  We would much rather have excess money in old age than being worried about running out.

Same here.. We are running at about 13 years worth expenses in Bond funds (8 years if you don't count our rental income).. That should be sufficient..:)

Instead of another race to thread, should we call the next level the "Race to Fat FIRE?"

I like it, I like it a lot.   Now, to get our accounts moving forward again and not backwards.  The bear is starting to roar.

Oh how about just a race to fat?..:)

[JoJoP]

Race to Fat?  A funny, yet somehow depressing name for someone on a diet...  I just lost about 15 lbs and I'm so proud of it.

[ysette9]

Congrats! Good luck on your journey.

[SwordGuy]

I don't track net worth to determine FI.   It is a flawed measurement when it comes to determining FI.

I track Post FIRE income vs expenses.   It's the only accurate measurement. :)   That's because there are many ways to get income Post FIRE, stock and bond sales, dividends, interest, rent, royalties, oil well profit sharing, etc.  There are so very many ways to make money in this country!

Net worth is about 2.5 million.

About a $1 million in real estate rental property or farm land, owned free and clear.  About 300k on our home, with a mortgage of 158k remaining.  The rest in stocks, bonds and cash.

The relevant numbers for FI are expenses about $75k and non-stock/bond income between $70k and 80k, with the remainder coming from stock and bond sales as needed.  So I don't worry all that much about the stock market dropping in value.  That means I'm not particularly concerned about the sequence of returns risk.

Once I get the rental I'm working on and another one up and running, I shouldn't normally need to sell stocks or bonds at all.

And I confess I'm not real motivated to "race" to $3m.  I think I'll putter around doing things I want to do and let my stocks do all that heavy lifting for me. :)   

Here's a visual for how I'll go about it:


Me, sitting on the porch sipping a mint julep, "Vanguard!  Fetch me another dividend and some stock appreciation please.  Thankee kindly!"

[JoJoP]

Congrats! Good luck on your journey.

Thanks Ysette9.  Sometimes I think it's easier to make money than to lose weight and be fitter.  Both are lifestyle choices based on a lifetime of micro-decisions. 

I see you have a husband, which generally means you're female.  I am also.  I'm curious...Are there other females on this thread? 

[Dicey]

Yup.