Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.

[AMandM]

Irritating hassles? Quite possibly. Drama? I'm cautiously optimistic that I might avoid the worst of it.

I'm in no rush to find out.

This is my generation of my family, too. My father has a simple will and assets, but he is years behind on his taxes. My sisters and I are working to get those sorted out for him while he is still alive. His sister has extensive property full of four generations' worth of things, ranging from valuable heirlooms to sentimental ephemera. It will be a headache for my cousins to deal with, but I don't expect drama. Certainly none of us is going to fight anyone for any of it.

[shelivesthedream]

This is very low level compared to most on this thread, but it's ticking me off something rotten.

My grandmother died last Christmas. My uncle predeceased her so my mother was left the sole executor. The financial assets have been distributed fairly and appropriately (between my mother, my late uncle's wife (they were childless), my brother, and me). Most of the "stuff" has been dealt with pretty amicably.

Except...

Before my grandmother died, she was going to move in with me. It was all arranged for a few months down the line because we were delayed moving into our new house and we didn't want to move her twice. Then she had two strokes and needed round-the-clock care. So all her possessions moved into "her room" in our house and she moved into a care home down the road to "help her recover" enough to come and live with us. Except she didn't get better and died.

My mother and I spent weeks sorting through all the random and sentimental and occasionally valuable possessions which took up an entire room in my house. Bear in mind this was happening in the first few months of this year.

My brother wanted certain items and we were able to agree pretty amicably on who really wanted what. I was inclined to let him have whatever he wanted for the most part and not argue. But then he just... didn't come and get any of it. (He lives half an hour's drive from me. This was not some epic undertaking.)

I reminded him several times. I pre-packed the smaller items into boxes and physically put them in his car one time. I told him he needed to make a firm date to come and pick up any furniture he wanted or to arrange a man with a van to come and pick it up. (To be fair, his car is pretty small.) My parents took away a few of "his" things to "temporarily" keep them in "his bedroom" at their house. (He is thirty, gainfully employed, living in a different city, with a wife and two children. But "his bedroom" is still apparently his to store stuff in indefinitely. My parents cannot use it because it is full of his stuff.)

And still the furniture was in my house.

Well, they were some nice and useful pieces of furniture so I decided that as they had been hanging out there for six months with apparently no plan for them to leave, they were mine now.

My parents WILL NOT STOP ASKING ME when my brother is going to come and collect "his" furniture. I point out that I am not a self storage facility, he has my phone number, and he has had plenty of opportunity to make arrangements. "Oh, well, he really wanted such-and-such a thing, he just needs to clear such-and-such a space in his [small, cluttered, already adequately furnished] house to make room for it." Reader, he is NEVER going to clear the space. Maybe if he moves to a different house one day he will suddenly make his claim on "his" furniture. But as I keep saying to them, if he wants it so bad, he can speak to ME about collecting it.

But he never will.

Because he knows I will make him do some actual work to get what he wants and not enable him by allowing him to use MY house as HIS personal storage facility. (That furniture my parents took for him "temporarily" because his MEAN MEAN SISTER wanted to actually get the use of an entire room of her house back? Obviously it's still at their house.) But apparently I am the unreasonable one by "taking over" the use of "his" furniture? Unclear when they will shut up about it. Maybe this Christmas? Maybe never?

But wait. There's one more thing.

My parents are still trying to sell my grandmother's flat and have left some suggestive bits of furniture there to stage it a bit. We've sort of agreed amongst ourselves who would like what of that furniture. My parents suggested... that they should get a removals company to deliver it ALL to my house whence it can be distributed to its end destination. HA HA HA NO. I would rather not have ANY of it than go through this nonsense again!

[Tasse]

Am I understanding correctly that your family (just your parents?) are angry with you for using some furniture for its intended use, instead of leaving it unused in a corner of a specific room? And that either way it is in your house, still hypothetically available to be retrieved with adequate warning?

[SwordGuy]

Am I understanding correctly that your family (just your parents?) are angry with you for using some furniture for its intended use, instead of leaving it unused in a corner of a specific room? And that either way it is in your house, still hypothetically available to be retrieved with adequate warning?

That's what I got out of it.   People can be crazy sometimes.

And @shelivesthedream, you are a great grandkid.  It was kind of you to offer to take care of your grandma.   Go you!

[shelivesthedream]

Am I understanding correctly that your family (just your parents?) are angry with you for using some furniture for its intended use, instead of leaving it unused in a corner of a specific room? And that either way it is in your house, still hypothetically available to be retrieved with adequate warning?

The first sentence, 100%, except I would say irritated rather than angry. And I think my mother specifically is creating drama around this that doesn't need to exist. If my brother really wanted it, he could have talked to me. He didn't, ergo he doesn't. But she loves to stir the pot and put herself in the middle of everything and pass exaggerated messages. I never act on anything she says someone else says or feels or did because she is an unreliable narrator. She doesn't make things up out of whole cloth, but she projects herself into whatever the situation is. So I guess my parents (mother, mainly) are irritated that I am using some furniture for its intended use, instead of leaving it unused in a corner of a specific room... when the alleged recipient of said furniture isn't even that bothered about it.

(I should add that no specific item bequests appeared in my grandmother's will except for two rings to my mother and aunt. This is fully from post-death negotiations/agreements. So I certainly cannot be accused of holding hostage anything that is "rightfully" anyone else's.)

The second sentence no, because it is MINE NOW and full of MY THINGS and ain't nobody gonna get it. *I* am perfectly capable of saying no to my brother... which presumably he knows and is why he hasn't bothered to ask for it now that such a lot of time has passed.

@SwordGuy Thanks. It was really sad that the timings worked out as they did, especially as we all felt the strokes were partly caused by her not eating and drinking and taking her pills properly (she had a carer but only once a day) and I feel that one of the main reasons for her to move in with us was to participate in family meals as part of her routine so she couldn't forget stuff like that. So if she'd just not had the stroke for another two months maybe she'd still be alive today. But she was really really old, nearly 100, and had felt "ready to go" for years, especially when her son died in early 2023. I have a lot of peace that we all really did everything we could for her, and she died knowing that I had made the invitation in total seriousness and we were working towards making it happen. I was sad when she died, but OK with it too. It was a good death in the end, and the immediate family were able to be with her in the hospital for the final hours. I remember hugging my mother right after she died and saying, "We did a good job" and her just kind of nodding and saying it back to me. You can't live in the land of might-have-been.

[AMandM]

Maybe your mother is irritated at your brother for not getting his things out of her house, but she's directing that irritation at you instead. Acknowledging her irritation at your brother would require admitting that she was a sucker to have let him store things in her house. If you're to blame, she can tell herself she's off the hook.

[Miss Piggy]

@shelivesthedream  This paragraph really warmed my heart.

@SwordGuy Thanks. It was really sad that the timings worked out as they did, especially as we all felt the strokes were partly caused by her not eating and drinking and taking her pills properly (she had a carer but only once a day) and I feel that one of the main reasons for her to move in with us was to participate in family meals as part of her routine so she couldn't forget stuff like that. So if she'd just not had the stroke for another two months maybe she'd still be alive today. But she was really really old, nearly 100, and had felt "ready to go" for years, especially when her son died in early 2023. I have a lot of peace that we all really did everything we could for her, and she died knowing that I had made the invitation in total seriousness and we were working towards making it happen. I was sad when she died, but OK with it too. It was a good death in the end, and the immediate family were able to be with her in the hospital for the final hours. I remember hugging my mother right after she died and saying, "We did a good job" and her just kind of nodding and saying it back to me. You can't live in the land of might-have-been.

[NorthernIkigai]

I'm sure you have tried everything with you mother (not just in this situation but since you said this is part of who she is), but what does/would she say if you simply reply with "Why are you saying this to me and not to [brother]?", and then say nothing else? I'm curious, although it is of course none of my business.

[shelivesthedream]

I'm sure you have tried everything with you mother (not just in this situation but since you said this is part of who she is), but what does/would she say if you simply reply with "Why are you saying this to me and not to [brother]?", and then say nothing else? I'm curious, although it is of course none of my business.

She gets very very passive aggressively hurt if I ever ask her why she is saying X to me and not to Y. Or, "What did Y say when you asked them about it?" Like I'm doing it on purpose to get at her. (Which... I think a little part of me sort of is because I know she has no good answer. So I try not to.)

I'm just going for the blandest possible relationship with her at the moment, to give my children a chance for a good relationship with their grandparents. I know that she didn't really like her mother for some reason (maybe because my grandmother was different as a mother and as a grandmother, or maaaaaaybe the common denominator here is my mother), but I really loved my grandmother, and I appreciate that my parents facilitated my relationship with her.

My standard line is, "Well, he knows how to get in touch with me if he wants to make arrangements." Then either silence or change the subject. And... she doesn't really have anything to say! Because it's true! She just sort of huffs and says, "Oh, well, I'm only trying to help." And I say, "OK." And there is further silence or a subject change.

Like, it's fine. We're not having prolonged arguments or even discussions about it. That's the sum total of it every time these days. If I have to spend the rest of my life saying the same thing every time it's brought up, I can live with that. I just wonder when she/they are EVER going to mentally let go of the idea that it's still "his" furniture and isn't now "my" furniture, at least on a sort of "possession is nine tenths of the law" basis.

Maybe I'll try to remember to come and check in here in a year's time to give an update!

[NorthernIkigai]

That's very interesting, thanks for indulging my curiosity. It does sound like she's stuck on this idea, and that you're doing a great job going through the motions of letting her see how silly she's being while not letting it all raise your own blood pressure. It's still a shame though that she and you both have to go through this dance. Maybe it will fade with time.

[SunnyDays]

@shelivesthedream, why don't you send an email or text (something in writing) to your brother saying that if items aren't picked up by such and such a date, he will have forfeited all claim on them and you will do whatever you see fit with it all.  Then you will have a rock solid response to your mom.  "Brother didn't pick things up/respond by [date], as I told him to. so it's mine now."  Case closed.

[Captain FIRE]

@shelivesthedream, why don't you send an email or text (something in writing) to your brother saying that if items aren't picked up by such and such a date, he will have forfeited all claim on them and you will do whatever you see fit with it all.  Then you will have a rock solid response to your mom.  "Brother didn't pick things up/respond by [date], as I told him to. so it's mine now."  Case closed.

And copy your mom!

[NorthernIkigai]

I think a person who thinks like shelivesthedream's mom would see this as A) subjecting the brother to undue pressure and simultaneously B) just a scheming way of shelivesthedream to get the furniture for herself, which she probably wanted all along.

If she has decided that oh poor brother is so busy or whatever, no logic will sway her. I wonder if shelivesthedream's excellent relationship with her grandmother, and potential jealousy from the mother's side, was and is a source of this unequal treatment of the siblings.

[Weisass]

I think a person who thinks like shelivesthedream's mom would see this as A) subjecting the brother to undue pressure and simultaneously B) just a scheming way of shelivesthedream to get the furniture for herself, which she probably wanted all along.

If she has decided that oh poor brother is so busy or whatever, no logic will sway her. I wonder if shelivesthedream's excellent relationship with her grandmother, and potential jealousy from the mother's side, was and is a source of this unequal treatment of the siblings.

Or maaayyyyyyybe parents are just strange, human creatures who screw up things and have different relationships (not always fair or healthy) with their adult kids?
@shelivesthedream it sounds like the status quo isn’t too frustrating….and you have some lovely furniture full of your things! Keep on being well boundaried and healthy!

[NorthernIkigai]

I think a person who thinks like shelivesthedream's mom would see this as A) subjecting the brother to undue pressure and simultaneously B) just a scheming way of shelivesthedream to get the furniture for herself, which she probably wanted all along.

If she has decided that oh poor brother is so busy or whatever, no logic will sway her. I wonder if shelivesthedream's excellent relationship with her grandmother, and potential jealousy from the mother's side, was and is a source of this unequal treatment of the siblings.

Or maaayyyyyyybe parents are just strange, human creatures who screw up things and have different relationships (not always fair or healthy) with their adult kids?
@shelivesthedream it sounds like the status quo isn’t too frustrating….and you have some lovely furniture full of your things! Keep on being well boundaried and healthy!

I don't think what you wrote in any way excludes or contradicts what I wrote :-)

[shelivesthedream]

@shelivesthedream, why don't you send an email or text (something in writing) to your brother saying that if items aren't picked up by such and such a date, he will have forfeited all claim on them and you will do whatever you see fit with it all.  Then you will have a rock solid response to your mom.  "Brother didn't pick things up/respond by [date], as I told him to. so it's mine now."  Case closed.

I told him he needed to make a firm date to come and pick up any furniture he wanted or to arrange a man with a van to come and pick it up.

^^ That's what this was about. His wife was going through some health stuff at the time and I didn't want to be ACTUALLY unfair and say he had two weeks or something when she was basically bedridden. So I told him he had to tell me a firm time when he WOULD be able to come. I fully expected it to be in several months time but... crickets.

@Captain FIRE : Lol, as if I would encourage my mother to think she needs to be part of this conversation between me and my brother!

@NorthernIkigai : Nah, my brother also had a good relationship with my grandmother. I don't know if it would quite have extended to having her move in, but in any case we had plenty of space at the time and he would have had nowhere to put her, and my husband was very willing and I suspect his wife wouldn't have been quite as happy because she would have been the one taking on the "caregiver"* role as both men work and neither women do.

*Had she needed "personal care" then she would have employed paid carers to come to our house. I was signing up for companionship, meals, admin and a sort of general oversight of how she was doing. But I wouldn't be too keen to do that for someone else's grandma!

But can confirm 100% that I have apparently been subjecting my brother to "undue pressure". And that this is part of a pattern of on-paper-equal (like, financially and so on) but in-actual-fact-unequal (leeway given, energy expended) treatment between the siblings. I used to think that because of the on-paper stuff, I was the one with the problem. But I met my husband when I was 18/19 and he was shocked by the blatant in-practice favouritism and confirmed that I am completely accurate in my perception that I am the less favoured sibling. I honestly think my mother (mostly, though my father enables) has no conscious idea that she is doing it and thinks she is scrupulously fair.

Thankfully I am now at a more mature stage where I can just laugh at how totally bizarre it all is, supported by my husband's confirmation that I am not the crazy one here.

It's even more amusing that my brother has turned out to be the one who achieved all the parental expectations on paper (excellent degree, high-flying career, earns loads of money) and yet is the one who is evidently more disappointing in practice (never replies to texts, consumerist lifestyle, probable debt, they don't agree with how he is parenting his children, they don't like his wife as much as my husband (I think)).......... and yet he's still the golden child. Go figure.

[Zamboni]

It's even more amusing that my brother has turned out to be the one who achieved all the parental expectations on paper (excellent degree, high-flying career, earns loads of money) and yet is the one who is evidently more disappointing in practice (never replies to texts, consumerist lifestyle, probable debt, they don't agree with how he is parenting his children, they don't like his wife as much as my husband (I think)).......... and yet he's still the golden child. Go figure.

My guess is that he gets a pass from your Mom on basic things like replying to texts because in her head he is "too busy with work," but mostly because he is simply male.

It is a fact of our society that women are usually expected to be "kinkeepers" and take care of all tasks such as family communication, planning family gatherings, providing emotional and physical caregiving, etc. Even if you both had 100% equal paid employment, then he still basically gets a pass, and you don't, solely based upon your Mom's gender expectations. I'm definitely not at all saying this is okay, but it is a dynamic that goes on much of the time.

In too many families women are even expected to pick out gifts for their in-laws, while men are often not really expected to come up with thoughtful gifts for anyone, even their wives, which is total BS and a guy who can't handle buying the birthday and Christmas gifts for the one single person who should absolutely be on his shopping list deserves divorce. Mom's pathetic half filled stocking has been made a joke by Dad on many a TikTok . . . by men who should have filled that sucker up, but who accept absolutely no responsibility for holiday magic and seem to find it amusing that she got less than everyone else . . .  again.

That tangent aside, I am worn out. I'm getting pestered a bit by siblings who don't seem to understand that estates take time. Mom has been dead less than two months, so please leave me alone already. The first thing I did was take care of getting documents submitted for her life insurance, so that has already paid out to everyone and now it is time to just chill and let me sift through the rest of the legal process. Legally I don't think I can even distribute any of her money until after the state-mandated 4 month window that creditors have to make a claim to her estate about a debt she owes. That notice to creditors did get posted ASAP, but there is a waiting period.

Everyone has just pilfered through her "stuff" and taken whatever they wanted . . . and there didn't seem to be any way to stop that without a massive family blow out (there actually was an eruption over the mere suggestion that it should stop or at least slow down, and at that point I threw my hands up in the air about it because I just don't care about all that.) I did my best to make a physical inventory ASAP and I did make a note of who took a couple of things of definite significant value, and that will be accounted for in the end whether she likes it or not. On the bright side, letting people take whatever they wanted was helpful in getting family to clean out the house, so the things no one wanted are also gone now and the house is on the market. But selling a house takes time, so y'all need to relax. I'm quite tired of talking about it and hearing people's opinions about it all. I guess I'll just have to start saying "I really don't want to talk about it, thanks."

[SwordGuy]

@Zamboni , it's stories like yours that make me glad I was an only child, I was the executor, and everything was left to me.    I had it easy!

But, for perspective, given the horror stories on this thread, so do you.  So relax. :)

And if they want you to do it faster, ask if they want to pony up the money to pay you full time at your current (or last) salary.  Or if they want the estate to pay you to work on it full time, which means it comes out of their share.
Or they can just chill and you'll get it done in a reasonable time within the law.  :)

[iluvzbeach]

It's stories like Zamboni's and so many others that really highlight just how greedy people can be.  Even if there's no fighting over the money or material possessions, everyone wants their money and damnit they want it right now!

I, too, am an only child and while it's great from the perspective of no fighting with other heirs over potential inheritance or who helps take care of the parents and how much each person does or doesn't do, it's challenging having all of the responsibility fall on the one person.  I'm an only child of divorced parents.  Dad is now deceased, but stepmom is still alive and has no other living relatives, so I'm her relative.  Then, there's my mom.  Plus, DH's mom.  We don't have kids, so at least that's one less responsibility we have to focus on.

I'm also the executor for my step-grandfather's estate, when the time comes.  He's been around since before I was born, so I consider him my grandfather but legally he is a step-grandfather.  There are six heirs between my mom & her siblings/stepsiblings, so I imagine I'll have my hands full dealing with the type of drama Zamboni describes when the time comes.  Grandfather is old but in overall good shape, especially for his age.  He could still be around for another 10-12 years.  Who knows, he could end up being one of those who lives to spend every last cent (but hopefully never ends up on Medicaid.)

[Zamboni]

@Zamboni , it's stories like yours that make me glad I was an only child, I was the executor, and everything was left to me.    I had it easy!

But, for perspective, given the horror stories on this thread, so do you.  So relax. :)

Yes, it could definitely be way, way worse. Mom collected certain things and had waaay too much stuff, but she would not have qualified for an episode of Hoarders or anything like that, thankfully.

My family seem honest for the most part, which is probably more than half the battle. The heavy lifting has been spread over a very large number of people, literally, which is very lucky.

And if they want you to do it faster, ask if they want to pony up the money to pay you full time at your current (or last) salary.  Or if they want the estate to pay you to work on it full time, which means it comes out of their share.
Or they can just chill and you'll get it done in a reasonable time within the law.  :)

Hahaha, that would be hilarious. I'm pretty sure that the court would not consider my "hourly" pay to be in the realm of reasonable.

[RetiredAt63]

Hahaha, that would be hilarious. I'm pretty sure that the court would not consider my "hourly" pay to be in the realm of reasonable.

Same as you make at work would be perfectly reasonable (to me, maybe not the courts).  Plus incurred expenses.  It's work.  Just because it's family doesn't mean it isn't work.

[SwordGuy]

Hahaha, that would be hilarious. I'm pretty sure that the court would not consider my "hourly" pay to be in the realm of reasonable.

Same as you make at work would be perfectly reasonable (to me, maybe not the courts).  Plus incurred expenses.  It's work.  Just because it's family doesn't mean it isn't work.

For the record, in the US, the various states have limits on how much an executor can charge.   

But I wasn't recommending that you charge your relatives more than that, I was recommending you ask them to pony up the cost of your time to deal with it and watch them quickly scuttle away like cockroaches when a light is turned on.  :)

[Taran Wanderer]

… and watch them quickly scuttle away like cockroaches when a light is turned on.  :)

Nice analogy.

[PhilB]

My inheritance drama is playing out exactly as I predicted on here a while ago. 

My father, who died last week, gifted the old family house to my brother D five years ago.  D kept it on as a rental.  As Dad didn't survive seven years, the gift gets counted into the estate for calculating inheritance tax.

As expected, D and I are now arguing about whether or not the gift of that house should be taken into account when calculating his share of the estate.  He thinks it should be.  I think he should keep it, free and clear, and still get 50% of what's left. He deserves it because he, living locally, provided most of the care to my parents.  He's affronted at this suggestion because he doesn't want anyone thinking he looked after them for money.  This could get tricky...

[zolotiyeruki]

As expected, D and I are now arguing about whether or not the gift of that house should be taken into account when calculating his share of the estate.  He thinks it should be.  I think he should keep it, free and clear, and still get 50% of what's left. He deserves it because he, living locally, provided most of the care to my parents.  He's affronted at this suggestion because he doesn't want anyone thinking he looked after them for money.  This could get tricky...

Am I understanding this correctly, that each of you is attempting to make the other take a larger cut of the inheritance?  That's a rather wholesome subversion of expectations!

[nereo]

My inheritance drama is playing out exactly as I predicted on here a while ago. 

My father, who died last week, gifted the old family house to my brother D five years ago.  D kept it on as a rental.  As Dad didn't survive seven years, the gift gets counted into the estate for calculating inheritance tax.

As expected, D and I are now arguing about whether or not the gift of that house should be taken into account when calculating his share of the estate.  He thinks it should be.  I think he should keep it, free and clear, and still get 50% of what's left. He deserves it because he, living locally, provided most of the care to my parents.  He's affronted at this suggestion because he doesn't want anyone thinking he looked after them for money.  This could get tricky...

Well it’s refreshing to hear about siblings that are concerned with getting *more* than they think they should.

It seems he’s concerned with what others might think. So my question is - how will other people know (and will they genuinely care?). Sure, the house is obvious to external observers, but not the liquid assets. If you are as outwardly supportive of the inheritance as you’ve been here who’s out there talking?

Can you both say that your Dad split his estate “equitably” between his sons and leave the details between the two of you?

[PhilB]

My inheritance drama is playing out exactly as I predicted on here a while ago. 

My father, who died last week, gifted the old family house to my brother D five years ago.  D kept it on as a rental.  As Dad didn't survive seven years, the gift gets counted into the estate for calculating inheritance tax.

As expected, D and I are now arguing about whether or not the gift of that house should be taken into account when calculating his share of the estate.  He thinks it should be.  I think he should keep it, free and clear, and still get 50% of what's left. He deserves it because he, living locally, provided most of the care to my parents.  He's affronted at this suggestion because he doesn't want anyone thinking he looked after them for money.  This could get tricky...

Well it’s refreshing to hear about siblings that are concerned with getting *more* than they think they should.

It seems he’s concerned with what others might think. So my question is - how will other people know (and will they genuinely care?). Sure, the house is obvious to external observers, but not the liquid assets. If you are as outwardly supportive of the inheritance as you’ve been here who’s out there talking?

Can you both say that your Dad split his estate “equitably” between his sons and leave the details between the two of you?

I think the 'anyone' in this case is just him and me in terms of thinking he looked after them for money.  As I know he didn't, that probably narrows it down to him.  Dad's wishes aren't something either of us really care about as he was a miserable old miser.  When Mom died one of his biggest concerns was losing her tiny state pension.  This from a man who was still earning £60k pa and spending £11k.  The only reason for the gift was that he couldn't bare the thought of paying higher rate tax on the rent.  He did ask at the time if he had to make an equivalent gift to me to avoid friction between me and D.  Note the 'had to'.  I told him no as D deserved it for everything he'd done for them.  I'm still holding to that.  I'm also changing the will so that my half goes straight to my kids as I don't want it.

[reeshau]

My inheritance drama is playing out exactly as I predicted on here a while ago. 

My father, who died last week, gifted the old family house to my brother D five years ago.  D kept it on as a rental.  As Dad didn't survive seven years, the gift gets counted into the estate for calculating inheritance tax.

As expected, D and I are now arguing about whether or not the gift of that house should be taken into account when calculating his share of the estate.  He thinks it should be.  I think he should keep it, free and clear, and still get 50% of what's left. He deserves it because he, living locally, provided most of the care to my parents.  He's affronted at this suggestion because he doesn't want anyone thinking he looked after them for money.  This could get tricky...

Well it’s refreshing to hear about siblings that are concerned with getting *more* than they think they should.

It seems he’s concerned with what others might think. So my question is - how will other people know (and will they genuinely care?). Sure, the house is obvious to external observers, but not the liquid assets. If you are as outwardly supportive of the inheritance as you’ve been here who’s out there talking?

Can you both say that your Dad split his estate “equitably” between his sons and leave the details between the two of you?

I think the 'anyone' in this case is just him and me in terms of thinking he looked after them for money.  As I know he didn't, that probably narrows it down to him.  Dad's wishes aren't something either of us really care about as he was a miserable old miser.  When Mom died one of his biggest concerns was losing her tiny state pension.  This from a man who was still earning £60k pa and spending £11k.  The only reason for the gift was that he couldn't bare the thought of paying higher rate tax on the rent.  He did ask at the time if he had to make an equivalent gift to me to avoid friction between me and D.  Note the 'had to'.  I told him no as D deserved it for everything he'd done for them.  I'm still holding to that.  I'm also changing the will so that my half goes straight to my kids as I don't want it.

That brings up a thought.  Does your brother have kids?  Maybe he could do the same with his "surplus."

[SwordGuy]

My inheritance drama is playing out exactly as I predicted on here a while ago. 

My father, who died last week, gifted the old family house to my brother D five years ago.  D kept it on as a rental.  As Dad didn't survive seven years, the gift gets counted into the estate for calculating inheritance tax.

As expected, D and I are now arguing about whether or not the gift of that house should be taken into account when calculating his share of the estate.  He thinks it should be.  I think he should keep it, free and clear, and still get 50% of what's left. He deserves it because he, living locally, provided most of the care to my parents.  He's affronted at this suggestion because he doesn't want anyone thinking he looked after them for money.  This could get tricky...

If neither of you need the money in question, there are people in western NC (and elsewhere) who lost everything to weather events...

[PhilB]

I don't need the money, but my kids are just starting out in life and it will make a big difference to them.  D has three kids, at least one of which is struggling financially raising his first grandkid, plus D himself is not exactly flush with cash.  The cash will definitely be going to places where it will help.  You are right though SwordGuy that I should think about making some charitable donations.

[Dollar Slice]

I don't need the money, but my kids are just starting out in life and it will make a big difference to them.  D has three kids, at least one of which is struggling financially raising his first grandkid, plus D himself is not exactly flush with cash.  The cash will definitely be going to places where it will help.  You are right though SwordGuy that I should think about making some charitable donations.

What if you offer to do it 60/40 to make it (eventually) balance out for the grandkids instead of 50/50 for you and your brother? I'm not sure what percentage of the estate the house is, or if that would make it more or less uneven... just something to think about.

[Zamboni]

@PhilB I don't understand how you can change someone else's will. I do understand that you could gift your inheritance to your children immediately after you receive it, but they don't magically become the heirs in the will . . . the executor cannot change the will, at least not where I live.

Also, does the executor not need to give an accounting of the dispersal of funds to the courts where you live? Where I live, you are supposed to show the court that the stipulations of the will were followed in honor of the wishes of the deceased. Sure, you can immediately gift your interest in the house to your brother, but technically it sounds like you own half of it until you do that . . . where I live the house would now be owned by the Estate, and then you'd need to sign a quitclaim deed in order for the home to be your brother's free and clear. Perhaps the laws where you are differ, but I think you should spend a little money and consult legal advice on these matters to avoid potential problems later.

[PhilB]

@PhilB I don't understand how you can change someone else's will. I do understand that you could gift your inheritance to your children immediately after you receive it, but they don't magically become the heirs in the will . . . the executor cannot change the will, at least not where I live.

I'll be changing it in my capacity as beneficiary, rather than executor. Here in the UK, the beneficiaries can change the will by something called a Deed of Variation - basically just a letter that says how you are changing it, with a few specific things that have to be mentioned about tax.  The only stipulation is that it has to be made and signed by any and every beneficiary that is disadvantaged by it - so I can redirect my 50% share anywhere I want, just so long as I don't leave D with less than he would have had.

I will be using one to send my half to my kids as it is more tax efficient than me receiving it and gifting it, just in case I die within the following seven years.  I would not be surprised if D did something similar with part of his half once I explain it to him, although I would expect him to retain much of it.  I'm already in a position where my estate will be big enough to have to pay inheritance tax.  I suspect he's quite a way under that.

Also, does the executor not need to give an accounting of the dispersal of funds to the courts where you live? Where I live, you are supposed to show the court that the stipulations of the will were followed in honor of the wishes of the deceased.

Here in the UK there is no requirement to give an accounting to the courts.  The executor has to keep an account, but the only people who have a right to see it are the residuary beneficiaries.  And the taxman if they challenge anything.

Sure, you can immediately gift your interest in the house to your brother, but technically it sounds like you own half of it until you do that . . . where I live the house would now be owned by the Estate, and then you'd need to sign a quitclaim deed in order for the home to be your brother's free and clear. Perhaps the laws where you are differ, but I think you should spend a little money and consult legal advice on these matters to avoid potential problems later.

The house is not part of the estate.  From the moment it was gifted it became the property of D and his wife.  Under UK law, the failure to live for seven years after the gift doesn't make it part of the estate again.  It just means that the gift uses up part (or all) of the testator's nil rate band for inheritance tax.  So the amount of the actual estate which is above the nil rate band, and therefore liable to a 40% tax, increases by the value of the previous gift.  The recipient keeps the gift, all the tax is paid by the estate and borne by the residuary beneficiaries - unless the value of the gift was more than the total of the nil rate band, in which case the recipient is liable for the tax on the excess.

[PhilB]

I don't need the money, but my kids are just starting out in life and it will make a big difference to them.  D has three kids, at least one of which is struggling financially raising his first grandkid, plus D himself is not exactly flush with cash.  The cash will definitely be going to places where it will help.  You are right though SwordGuy that I should think about making some charitable donations.

What if you offer to do it 60/40 to make it (eventually) balance out for the grandkids instead of 50/50 for you and your brother? I'm not sure what percentage of the estate the house is, or if that would make it more or less uneven... just something to think about.

That's a tricky one, as the end result might be similar, but it feels very different.  If Dad had decided to structure the will that way, then I would have fully understood and supported that.  As it is, changing the will like that would effectively be me offering to take money from my kids and give it to D's kids.  That feels different to me refusing an offer from D to give my kids some of his share because he'd already had a (well deserved) gift.

[thrifted]

I love this thread and I'm only halfway through!!

My evil step-mother sincerely believes that everything my grandparents left/have should go to her and her kids because she is married to the first born son (my dad) and her/my dad's kids are his only sons. 

A little bit about my dad... He sadly lived most of his life an addict. In the 90's, after my parents divorced, he left his first family (me and my sisters) in the US for the Philippines. He started his second family (my half-brothers) but before my baby half-brother turned 1, he came back to the US.  He had better work prospects as a US Citizen and intended to support both families. At first, he worked hard and sent money home to PI. But child support for his first family never happened. (I remember him taking me to the grocery story when he was cashing his check and saying, "Get anything you want." I got Pepperidge Farm Mint Milanos and he smiled and said I was high class, lol.)

My mom was very forgiving because she's a good person and he'd never been particularly stable anyway. They haven't seen or spoken to each other since the divorce and that's all my mom asks for. 

My step-mom, on the other hand, is either screaming at him or not speaking to him. She had married him not for love but because he was a US citizen. She had high hopes that she and her kids would live a good life from his remittance and that he'd eventually return. He still lives in the US and tells us he wants to the return to the Philippines so he can die. Since my dad didn't keep his promises, she crafted a web of lies... a very detailed, 30 year saga of just how evil and selfish my older sister is.

Lie # 1 My sister is hiding money

Many years after my paternal grandfather passed, we learned that he had left $20k in a bank account in the States. He had moved back to the PI, passed before settling his finances, and my grandma wasn't of sound mind to claim the funds. It took decades to set up a power of attorney Thankfully my cousin did a bunch of research, set up a POA, opened a bank account for her, and wired the funds. Grandma was well taken care of at home. The same cousin and her husband (a nurse) cared for my grandma 24/7 in her dying days.

Lie # 2 My sister secretly owns a plot at the cemetery

Grandpa also left a fully paid double plot at a graveyard not far from me. He had purchased it for $3k. I had the paperwork at some point but couldn't for the life of me find it. It didn't matter. The cemetery was really difficult to work with and messed up the transfer of ownership anyway. Eventually, I found a family service advisor at the cemetery who could help. My little sister and I sent $5k to my grandma and now own the plot.

Lie # 3 My sister demanded grandma's urn to be opened so that she could have some ashes

My sister asked if any ashes had been put aside before it was sealed into the urn. Of course a few of the loved ones we've lost have ashes traditionally in an urn at the cemetery. But on more than one occasion ashes were given to family members before the official urn was sealed. My cousin's ashes were scattered at his favorite fishing spot. I have a necklace that contains that cousin's ashes. And I have a tiny tiny urn that contains my sister.

I knew my step-mom never liked my sister but I only learned these stories when family immigrated here last year. I have lost all respect for her and her kids.

The thing that kills me the most is that my step-mom never visited my grandma, even when grandma was on her deathbed. She didn't go to her funeral either. She encouraged my half-brothers do the same. And they did! Our culture centers around respecting your elders, especially the dead.

My grandma has struggled with depression and dementia for some time. It seems her memory stopped at 1980, before I was born. My older sister is the only one of our generation that she recalls. She doesn't remember or recognize any of the rest of us - me, my 4 siblings, my 10 cousins. Even though she lived with 3 of my cousins the last 20 odd years of her life. She has no recollection that my dad divorced, remarried and had 2 more kids.  She also doesn't remember that her golden child married, had 5 kids, and passed

I no longer speak to my step-mom and I now think that she'll come after the house my grandpa built. My uncle owns it and he has no intention of giving it to her. My other uncle and his family of 9 have lived there for over 40 years. And my dad won't be going home.

[Frugal Lizard]

Wow - @thrifted - that is a family epic.

[Sugaree]

This is all hypothetical so far, but I'm a bit concerned about my parents' estate is going to play out.  The backstory here is that my mom inherited the house I live in from my grandparents.  Four years ago, she quit claimed it to me, so we're getting pretty close to being out of the Mesicaid lookback period. The deal at the time was that I would have this house at that time in exchange for my brother getting their house (worth 2x this one) when they pass.  Morbid, but it was the closest they've ever come to actually talking about it.  Until yesterday.  Due to a situation with my in-laws, mom and I had a short conversation about it where I found out that not only have they not done anything to protect the house from Medicaid recovery, they don't even have a will.  She said that they were looking at an online template for that.  The thing is that I don't need anything else.  But I'm afraid that my brother is going to get left out if either of them ends up in LTC.  And that could definitely cause some drama and hard feelings.  There was a very, very similar situation with some cousins a couple of years ago and I thought my parents had taken notes

[AMandM]

Yikes, sugaree, I can see how that could get ugly. Can they at least quit-claim it to him now, or retitle it with him as TOD beneficiary? Then hope/pray/help them stay fit for another 5 years....

[Dave1442397]

My mother-in-law decided to put her condo (worth around $125k) in an irrevocable trust for our daughter's education, and the place has been sitting empty since she fell and broke her hip a couple of years ago (she lives with us now).

The funny part is that my sister-in-law (who was never officially adopted - long story, we're talking The Philippines in the '60s) found out about it last year and has basically stopped talking to us, and calls my mother-in-law on a regular basis trying to get her to change her mind.

We're applying for a handicapped placard for my wife's car to make it easier to park at Doctor's appointments, etc; and they asked for a copy of her birth certificate. My wife went looking for it at the condo last weekend and brought home a folder of documents.

We were reading through them and found two previous wills, one from the early '90s and one from 2005. In both wills, everything was left to their immediate family, and the sister-in-law in question would only inherit if no other family members survived.

When we took my MIL to the lawyer's office five years ago to make her new will, she didn't want to leave anything to SIL, but we told her she probably should, so she ended up including her. We thought maybe she was just mad at her at the time, having no idea that SIL had been excluded from previous wills.

It's not as if we're talking big money here. MIL is 95, and has around $45k in brokerage accounts, which is being depleted at the rate of $5k per year or so. After funeral expenses, there won't be much left anyway. Even if the condo had been divvied up it would have come out to maybe $20k per person.

The best part of the whole thing is that SIL is no longer talking to us :)  Just to give a glimpse of her personality type, she was told at work that she wouldn't get promoted to supervisor level because no one wants to work with her, and of course, according to SIL, everyone else is the problem.

[Sugaree]

Yikes, sugaree, I can see how that could get ugly. Can they at least quit-claim it to him now, or retitle it with him as TOD beneficiary? Then hope/pray/help them stay fit for another 5 years....

It's not paid off (they've treated it like an ATM for years doing cash out refis), so I'm not sure that quit claiming it would be a viable option.  But, I haven't looked I to the specifics of that.  The TOD thing might work.  I really need to sit down and have a conversation with them soon.  That's never gone super well in the past.  Maybe bringing them a copy of my estate plans "so they know in case I get hit by a bus" would be a good way to spur that on.

On a side note, my MIL is in the hospital battling cancer and someone tried to commit title fraud on FIL's family property in Texas.  Talk about a nightmare. 

[Chris Pascale]

This is all hypothetical so far, but I'm a bit concerned about my parents' estate is going to play out.  The backstory here is that my mom inherited the house I live in from my grandparents.  Four years ago, she quit claimed it to me, so we're getting pretty close to being out of the Mesicaid lookback period. The deal at the time was that I would have this house at that time in exchange for my brother getting their house (worth 2x this one) when they pass.  Morbid, but it was the closest they've ever come to actually talking about it.  Until yesterday.  Due to a situation with my in-laws, mom and I had a short conversation about it where I found out that not only have they not done anything to protect the house from Medicaid recovery, they don't even have a will.  She said that they were looking at an online template for that.  The thing is that I don't need anything else.  But I'm afraid that my brother is going to get left out if either of them ends up in LTC.  And that could definitely cause some drama and hard feelings.  There was a very, very similar situation with some cousins a couple of years ago and I thought my parents had taken notes

Have they done this yet?

[Chris Pascale]

My inheritance drama is playing out exactly as I predicted on here a while ago. 

My father, who died last week, gifted the old family house to my brother D five years ago.  D kept it on as a rental.  As Dad didn't survive seven years, the gift gets counted into the estate for calculating inheritance tax.

As expected, D and I are now arguing about whether or not the gift of that house should be taken into account when calculating his share of the estate.  He thinks it should be.  I think he should keep it, free and clear, and still get 50% of what's left. He deserves it because he, living locally, provided most of the care to my parents.  He's affronted at this suggestion because he doesn't want anyone thinking he looked after them for money.  This could get tricky...

Hopefully this played out as it should with your brother accepting that it's not about money; it's about him keeping his house.

[PhilB]

My inheritance drama is playing out exactly as I predicted on here a while ago. 

My father, who died last week, gifted the old family house to my brother D five years ago.  D kept it on as a rental.  As Dad didn't survive seven years, the gift gets counted into the estate for calculating inheritance tax.

As expected, D and I are now arguing about whether or not the gift of that house should be taken into account when calculating his share of the estate.  He thinks it should be.  I think he should keep it, free and clear, and still get 50% of what's left. He deserves it because he, living locally, provided most of the care to my parents.  He's affronted at this suggestion because he doesn't want anyone thinking he looked after them for money.  This could get tricky...

Hopefully this played out as it should with your brother accepting that it's not about money; it's about him keeping his house.

I think he's accepted it but, if he hasn't, there won't be much he can do about it.  I'm handling the estate.  I have his bank details.  He doesn't have mine.  Short of driving down and stuffing cash through my letterbox, there won't be any way for him to make me take the money back.  Mwahahaha!

[Hula Hoop]

Mostly posting to follow, having finally finished back-reading this thread.

So far, at least the parts I know of my immediate family have been pretty drama-free, although a great-grandparent's New England farmhouse was eventually let go for taxes, deliberately, after a whole herd of cousins my parents' generation couldn't all agree to sell or maintain it. It was not quite old or special enough to be put on the historic register there. Nobody's lived in it for at least 40 years, because it never got indoor plumbing, and the central heating was the 1865 wood stove (also for cooking and baking) that was surely only still there because it was too big and heavy to move.

My parents are both still alive, and their siblings and spouses all seem to be/have been responsible, respectful adults. My dad and his sister have one semi-valuable decorative item they pass back and forth between them, alternating years at Christmas.

I'm in no rush to inherit anything. I don't need more, and my parents are both packrats, especially my mom. The stuff is mostly interesting-but-not-valuable. There are, to my knowledge, no major hygiene issues, no festering seas of empty bottles and cans like in some of the shows. The empty yogurt tubs that "might come in handy someday" (even if they haven't yet) have been washed and neatly stacked, and I won't feel the need to keep them or even account for them, when he time comes. I suspect I may need to comb through pockets, jars, and luggage before donating stuff. That bag of toys I decided I'd outgrown in 4th grade went into the attic and not to the thrift store. And so forth. I'll either be FIRE by then or the need to clean out their house will become the impetus.

I'm probably going to inherit the care of my brother, too. He has the kind of autism that is mild enough that our health care establishments hesitate to diagnose, possibly because the things they might be able to do about it are expensive and ineffective. It's definitely preventing him from holding a good job, whether anyone wants to admit that that's why. Dad still clings to notions of personal responsibility and prods Brother about applying for low-end work that would only frustrate and exhaust him. (Brother has done some driving and data entry work, but isn't cut out for the people parts of anything, and prodding from Dad only ever makes Brother upset, without actually being motivating or helpful.) Dad also thinks Brother is "bad with money," which may be partly true, but also, Brother has never generated enough income to pay the rent and still have much left over to manage.

Brother does tend to come up with a Big Idea that he thinks will be the next great thing, but he seems to lack the wherewithal to either execute on these Big Ideas himself or communicate to anyone else what would need to happen and why—which is endlessly frustrating to Brother and to those of us who occasionally attempt to listen to him.

Brother is getting economic inpatient care from parents, after a landlord closed up shop on a relatively affordable room in a rental house he used to share. Living there puts Brother in range for Dad's opinions and advice, and nobody is very happy about it, but a separate dwelling would cost money that Brother doesn't have and Dad doesn't wish to contribute.

I, meanwhile, got the kind of autism that I've never attempted to get formally diagnosed, because I'm pretty sure that's what it is, and I can mostly mask well enough to hold down a tech job that pays well. I'm the responsible one, and my parents noticed from long ago that I was the cautious tightwad, while my brother only saved his allowance if it was going towards a larger purchase later.

It's likely going to be up to me to negotiate where Brother will live and persuade him to inherit an (existing) annuity as at least part of his portion. I hope he'll let me help organize and automate his finances enough to prevent overdrafts and late fees.

Irritating hassles? Quite possibly. Drama? I'm cautiously optimistic that I might avoid the worst of it.

I'm in no rush to find out.

I see that you're located in the US and I'm not sure how things work there re autism diagnoses - however, what I've seen is that here in Italy at least autism diagnosis has changed a ton in recent years so that people who are relatively low support needs can still be diagnosed in the public health system.  Not sure if that would help the situation at all but here someone like your brother would be eligible for certain job programs and benefits if they were diagnosed.  Not perfect but something at least.

Also I have a relative who is an adult with what used to be called "Aspergers" - now just Autism level 1 and he's thrived as a fork lift driver.  He got his fork lift license a few years ago and works part time and gets decent money.  The # of pallets of whatever type that he has to move in the warehouse arrives digitally so there's no human interaction except during breaks and he just goes around on his forklift while listening to music on his headphones.  He's a very intelligent guy but can't deal with human interactions especially after being severaly bullied at school (he's in his 50s) so this works for him.

[crocheted_stache]

@Hula Hoop , what exists of our health care system is currently getting torn to shreds by the current administration, and any public assistance is too scarce and means tested. I'm not sure what if anything he's getting now (besides Adderall, I think). He will not qualify for anything means tested after inheriting.

I've watched a different autistic friend struggle mightily with getting diagnosed, and then convincing every successive caregiver that it's (still) true. I've also watched her struggle to get and keep various benefits. I'm pretty well convinced that, other than health care, it's going to be easier on all concerned if my brother stays out of The System.

At this point, that means that I set things up so rent, utilities, and whatnot are getting auto-paid out of the annuity income, and he gets some monthly amount for food, transportation, and whatever else. Either that, or the girlfriend who has recently entered the picture sticks around and this out to have the wherewithal to keep him on track for the basics. I think he and I would both be just as happy without me being in charge.

He may not even still be the spendthrift my dad thinks he is. When he was earning money, it wasn't that much. It's possible that rent, food, operable car, and decent, recent gadgets are enough to keep him going, and he reaches his own equilibrium.

Time will tell.

[Sugaree]

This is all hypothetical so far, but I'm a bit concerned about my parents' estate is going to play out.  The backstory here is that my mom inherited the house I live in from my grandparents.  Four years ago, she quit claimed it to me, so we're getting pretty close to being out of the Mesicaid lookback period. The deal at the time was that I would have this house at that time in exchange for my brother getting their house (worth 2x this one) when they pass.  Morbid, but it was the closest they've ever come to actually talking about it.  Until yesterday.  Due to a situation with my in-laws, mom and I had a short conversation about it where I found out that not only have they not done anything to protect the house from Medicaid recovery, they don't even have a will.  She said that they were looking at an online template for that.  The thing is that I don't need anything else.  But I'm afraid that my brother is going to get left out if either of them ends up in LTC.  And that could definitely cause some drama and hard feelings.  There was a very, very similar situation with some cousins a couple of years ago and I thought my parents had taken notes

Have they done this yet?

They actually met with an actual estate attorney and had wills, POAs, and medical proxies drawn up.  It's not going to help if either of them need LTC in the next 5 years, but it's better than the alternative. 

[partgypsy]

So my inheritance news is mom told us her intentions last night. She had a bad emmeshed relationship with oldest son where both her and father spent all their resources on him till he died. The weird relationship in lesser form continues with sis. Last night she told me she intends on sis 100% beneficiary of all her assets. I
Knew this was going to happen bc that has been the refrain from sis, all she's been talking about for a few months. Also pushing mom to write a will to that effect. This is after mom already helps her with money every month, gave her a car, and paid a 25k bill for her.  While the 2 sibs that are responsible and busting their butts,  get nothing. The three things are. I dk by the time mom dies there will be anything left. She may be counting on something that won't be there. Rather than focusing on that she needs to focus on,  how to take care of herself like an adult and means of employment. I am mad on behalf of my brother. Otherwise than mom paying a 100-200 bill each month, brother has been hosting both of them, at his expense. He could use the help! Finally, it hurts my feelings. It's irrational but it's true. I feel like I'm the invisible one. This is the latest in a long line of incidences. I still remember a family outing when I was a little kid. We stopped at a rest area. My family took off without me. I dk how long it was. But it was long enough I saw new families arrive, eat their lunches, and leave, until they realized I wasn't in the car and came back for me.

[Sibley]

I don't think its irrational at all to be upset that you are considered less important by your family. I also don't think it's unreasonable that your mother's treatment of you and your siblings will impact your relationship with your mother or your siblings. Meaning, I won't judge you if you walk away and leave them all to stew in the mess they have created for themselves.

I do think, and hope, that you have access to a therapist, or have in the past, that can help you process and come to terms with what is a lifetime of very hurtful behaviors from the people who should love and care for you. You can't change them but you can come to peace within yourself. And it totally sucks that its necessary.

[partgypsy]

Yes. I do have baggage and I do have a therapist. I feel like I have healed and gotten better. But this re opens old wounds.

[Frugal Lizard]

Yes. I do have baggage and I do have a therapist. I feel like I have healed and gotten better. But this re opens old wounds.

Being able to articulate the hurt as you have does seem to me to like a whole lot of healing has happened. And that is a whole lot of pressure on the scar tissue.