Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.

[NoraLenderbee]

I would consult an attorney- I would not destroy a will- but you do not have to accept being the executor. You can decline and I assume the state will appoint someone. As others have pointed out , you do not have to accept a bequest. People die intestate all the time.

Yep, you can refuse to be the executor. However, you'll probably have to go through a court procedure to have them appoint a replacement executor. It would be worth discussing with a lawyer before she dies. You might also want to see if DH can file a quit claim before she dies. It would be better to get his name off the title before he "inherits" it.

Good luck. This stuff can be complicated and leave permanent bad feelings--over what's basically trash.

[bugbaby]

I actually just got some glorious news. I'm off the hook and no longer executor for an out-of-country estate.

My parents, who are not at all Mustachian anymore because they started making serious money later in life, wanted me to be the executor for their estate and to-- get this-- manage my estranged fuckup sibling's trust and dole out such money as he needs to continue enabling his cranially-rectally-inverted ways while still saddling me with the responsiblity of making sure the moron doesn't drink himself to death or throw a booze-filled tantrum and drive into someone who matters. After decades of enabling the little dipshit they wanted to drag me onto the codependent merry-go-round in their place. This is despite the fact I took off nearly twenty years ago and left the freaking country to avoid the stupid family drama.

Luckily, they found an estate lawyer who bitchslapped some sense into them. They aren't going to make my idiot sibling executor (said sibling went bankrupt without having actual bad life experiences, just bad financial decision making). We will be paying someone else to just liquidate everything in sight.

I am So. Fucking. Relieved.

Just scrolling the thread.  Grimsqueaker, I have the same messed up family dynamic and I left that country 20yrs ago, returned 3yrs ago and left again never ever to step back in that viper nest.  Yeah, tonly gets worse ...

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[NorCal]

Well, this isn't exactly inheritance, but this seemed like the thread to put it in.

My father-in-law's live in girlfriend of 20+ years "Ann" has late stage cancer.  She's not doing well.  The doctor gives her several weeks.

My FIL is self employed and has zero saved for retirement at 70.  He plans to work until the day he dies.  He's always worked hard enough to pay the bills, and has always taken plenty of time off during his working years.

When "Ann" got sick, they lost half of their income and had to go to Cobra.  They were negative cash-flow and couldn't pay the mortgage.  We gave them some money to get them through with no expectations of repayment, and are happy to be in a position to support them.

It's clear FIL will have to sell the house very soon after she passes.  I don't think his self-employment income will support his spending, and I don't think there's a reasonable path to getting there.

The frustrating part is they NEVER GOT MARRIED.  After living together for nearly two decades, he just didn't want to do it.  Now he doesn't qualify for Social Security survivors benefits.  While I'm sure it wouldn't be huge, it could have been the difference between cash-flow positive and cash-flow negative for the rest of his life.  I totally get that marriage is a very personal thing, but so is living on the edge forever.

[okits]

@NorCal - you could put it here[/quote].

Is it too late for FIL and Ann to marry now, for the SS survivor benefits?

[Threshkin]

Well, this isn't exactly inheritance, but this seemed like the thread to put it in.

...snip...

The frustrating part is they NEVER GOT MARRIED.  After living together for nearly two decades, he just didn't want to do it.  Now he doesn't qualify for Social Security survivors benefits.  While I'm sure it wouldn't be huge, it could have been the difference between cash-flow positive and cash-flow negative for the rest of his life.  I totally get that marriage is a very personal thing, but so is living on the edge forever.

Here in Colorado they would likely already be considered married since they were living together and presumably sharing finances.  Common Law state FTW (or loss depending on your perspective)

[Dicey]

Well, this isn't exactly inheritance, but this seemed like the thread to put it in.

My father-in-law's live in girlfriend of 20+ years "Ann" has late stage cancer.  She's not doing well.  The doctor gives her several weeks.

My FIL is self employed and has zero saved for retirement at 70.  He plans to work until the day he dies.  He's always worked hard enough to pay the bills, and has always taken plenty of time off during his working years.

When "Ann" got sick, they lost half of their income and had to go to Cobra.  They were negative cash-flow and couldn't pay the mortgage.  We gave them some money to get them through with no expectations of repayment, and are happy to be in a position to support them.

It's clear FIL will have to sell the house very soon after she passes.  I don't think his self-employment income will support his spending, and I don't think there's a reasonable path to getting there.

The frustrating part is they NEVER GOT MARRIED.  After living together for nearly two decades, he just didn't want to do it.  Now he doesn't qualify for Social Security survivors benefits.  While I'm sure it wouldn't be huge, it could have been the difference between cash-flow positive and cash-flow negative for the rest of his life.  I totally get that marriage is a very personal thing, but so is living on the edge forever.

Try to convince them to get married asap! Because they've been together so long, SSA will consider them wed by virtue of common law. If they own property together, that may make it even easier. It may sound morbid to push this, but it could save his bacon big time. We know/knew a couple who did this. Pictures of them together over the years made their case.

[expatartist]

Inheritance drama? Yes we've got some. My father died a few months ago. He was diagnosed with untreatable aggressive leukaemia and had only a month to live.  Though his will was pretty straightforward and his 5 children received relatively equal portions of his estate, during the process there's been a bit of what some might call drama:

* One sister (the executor) has repeatedly accused the other of attempted patricide
* Right after the diagnosis, the other sister accused a brother of squandering his finances on prostitutes and shopping sprees to win our dad's sympathy and a larger share of the estate (he already had a slightly larger share of the estate, it didn't increase at all)

The remaining brother and I try to give some perspective and watch from the sidelines. It's a fucking family tragedy in the making.

[AMandM]

* Right after the diagnosis, the other sister accused a brother of squandering his finances on prostitutes and shopping sprees to win our dad's sympathy and a larger share of the estate

I'm having a hard time imagining how this works. "Aww, poor Dicky, his apartment is full of brand-new things and piles of used condoms. I better increase his inheritance so he'll feel better"?

I'm sorry for the loss of your father, and for the tragedy in the making.

[ixtap]

* Right after the diagnosis, the other sister accused a brother of squandering his finances on prostitutes and shopping sprees to win our dad's sympathy and a larger share of the estate

I'm having a hard time imagining how this works. "Aww, poor Dicky, his apartment is full of brand-new things and piles of used condoms. I better increase his inheritance so he'll feel better"?

I'm sorry for the loss of your father, and for the tragedy in the making.

I thought the prostitutes we're to cheer Dad up...

[NorCal]

Well, this isn't exactly inheritance, but this seemed like the thread to put it in.

My father-in-law's live in girlfriend of 20+ years "Ann" has late stage cancer.  She's not doing well.  The doctor gives her several weeks.

My FIL is self employed and has zero saved for retirement at 70.  He plans to work until the day he dies.  He's always worked hard enough to pay the bills, and has always taken plenty of time off during his working years.

When "Ann" got sick, they lost half of their income and had to go to Cobra.  They were negative cash-flow and couldn't pay the mortgage.  We gave them some money to get them through with no expectations of repayment, and are happy to be in a position to support them.

It's clear FIL will have to sell the house very soon after she passes.  I don't think his self-employment income will support his spending, and I don't think there's a reasonable path to getting there.

The frustrating part is they NEVER GOT MARRIED.  After living together for nearly two decades, he just didn't want to do it.  Now he doesn't qualify for Social Security survivors benefits.  While I'm sure it wouldn't be huge, it could have been the difference between cash-flow positive and cash-flow negative for the rest of his life.  I totally get that marriage is a very personal thing, but so is living on the edge forever.

Try to convince them to get married asap! Because they've been together so long, SSA will consider them wed by virtue of common law. If they own property together, that may make it even easier. It may sound morbid to push this, but it could save his bacon big time. We know/knew a couple who did this. Pictures of them together over the years made their case.

Unfortunately, California is not a state that recognizes common law marriages.  I think it's already too late, as she is confined to her bed, and can barely speak.  Everything being done on her behalf is under a power-of-attorney (that FIL can't actually find).

[expatartist]

* Right after the diagnosis, the other sister accused a brother of squandering his finances on prostitutes and shopping sprees to win our dad's sympathy and a larger share of the estate

I'm having a hard time imagining how this works. "Aww, poor Dicky, his apartment is full of brand-new things and piles of used condoms. I better increase his inheritance so he'll feel better"?

I'm sorry for the loss of your father, and for the tragedy in the making.

Right?! Twisted sister kind of logic.

I thought the prostitutes we're to cheer Dad up...

;)

All this is making me very very happy I live 7000 miles away.

[Dicey]

Well, this isn't exactly inheritance, but this seemed like the thread to put it in.

My father-in-law's live in girlfriend of 20+ years "Ann" has late stage cancer.  She's not doing well.  The doctor gives her several weeks.

My FIL is self employed and has zero saved for retirement at 70.  He plans to work until the day he dies.  He's always worked hard enough to pay the bills, and has always taken plenty of time off during his working years.

When "Ann" got sick, they lost half of their income and had to go to Cobra.  They were negative cash-flow and couldn't pay the mortgage.  We gave them some money to get them through with no expectations of repayment, and are happy to be in a position to support them.

It's clear FIL will have to sell the house very soon after she passes.  I don't think his self-employment income will support his spending, and I don't think there's a reasonable path to getting there.

The frustrating part is they NEVER GOT MARRIED.  After living together for nearly two decades, he just didn't want to do it.  Now he doesn't qualify for Social Security survivors benefits.  While I'm sure it wouldn't be huge, it could have been the difference between cash-flow positive and cash-flow negative for the rest of his life.  I totally get that marriage is a very personal thing, but so is living on the edge forever.

Try to convince them to get married asap! Because they've been together so long, SSA will consider them wed by virtue of common law. If they own property together, that may make it even easier. It may sound morbid to push this, but it could save his bacon big time. We know/knew a couple who did this. Pictures of them together over the years made their case.

Unfortunately, California is not a state that recognizes common law marriages.  I think it's already too late, as she is confined to her bed, and can barely speak.  Everything being done on her behalf is under a power-of-attorney (that FIL can't actually find).

IDK, but this case did happen in CA, within the last 10 years. They married on his deathbed and she was able to collect his Social Security.

[MarciaB]

Well, this isn't exactly inheritance, but this seemed like the thread to put it in.

My father-in-law's live in girlfriend of 20+ years "Ann" has late stage cancer.  She's not doing well.  The doctor gives her several weeks.

My FIL is self employed and has zero saved for retirement at 70.  He plans to work until the day he dies.  He's always worked hard enough to pay the bills, and has always taken plenty of time off during his working years.

When "Ann" got sick, they lost half of their income and had to go to Cobra.  They were negative cash-flow and couldn't pay the mortgage.  We gave them some money to get them through with no expectations of repayment, and are happy to be in a position to support them.

It's clear FIL will have to sell the house very soon after she passes.  I don't think his self-employment income will support his spending, and I don't think there's a reasonable path to getting there.

The frustrating part is they NEVER GOT MARRIED.  After living together for nearly two decades, he just didn't want to do it.  Now he doesn't qualify for Social Security survivors benefits.  While I'm sure it wouldn't be huge, it could have been the difference between cash-flow positive and cash-flow negative for the rest of his life.  I totally get that marriage is a very personal thing, but so is living on the edge forever.

Did Ann make substantially more than he did? Because as far as I understand survivor's benefits (I'm a widow myself, but not yet drawing SS benefits) a person can qualify for several different benefits (your own SS, survivor SS) but can only take one at a time. Meaning, he would want to take whichever was higher (his own, or hers). He couldn't take both. He can start with one and then make a switch, but he can't double-dip.

So if he and Ann made about the same amount, or if she earned less in her lifetime, then her benefits aren't of benefit to him (because his are more to begin with).

[sol]

Under normal circumstances survivor SS is half of the regular SS and you have the choice to take that or your own benefit but not both.

The complication is that SS benefits are not linear, such that you usually have to earn far more than twice as much to get double the benefit.  This means it usually only makes sense to take the survivor benefit if the survivor had little or no earned income of their own.  Usually your own benefit will be larger.

[NorCal]

Under normal circumstances survivor SS is half of the regular SS and you have the choice to take that or your own benefit but not both.

The complication is that SS benefits are not linear, such that you usually have to earn far more than twice as much to get double the benefit.  This means it usually only makes sense to take the survivor benefit if the survivor had little or no earned income of their own.  Usually your own benefit will be larger.

Good to know.  I don't pretend to be an SS expert, as I'm young enough that it doesn't matter for me personally yet.  I guess my concerns might be irrational.  Maybe (I hope) FIL knows the math and has determined it doesn't matter.

Sometimes he does things that are financially savvy (he pays a lot of attention to what he can write off as a business expense, and does a ton of DIY projects), but I also know he carries a balance on his credit cards and has no savings.

Mostly, I'm worried about the guy.  They were life partners, and a couple that lived paycheck-to-paycheck on dual incomes.  He's going to be both personally and financially devastated, and there's not a lot we can do to help.

[Physicsteacher]

Under normal circumstances survivor SS is half of the regular SS and you have the choice to take that or your own benefit but not both.

That's actually the case for spousal benefits while the spouse is alive. For a widow or widower, the max benefit is the higher of the deceased's benefit or the surviving spouse's benefit based on his or her own earnings record.

[MarciaB]

Under normal circumstances survivor SS is half of the regular SS and you have the choice to take that or your own benefit but not both.

The complication is that SS benefits are not linear, such that you usually have to earn far more than twice as much to get double the benefit.  This means it usually only makes sense to take the survivor benefit if the survivor had little or no earned income of their own.  Usually your own benefit will be larger.

Um, no. Survivor benefits, unlike spousal benefits, are 100% of the deceased's benefit going to the widow(er) as long as that benefit is higher than the survivor's own. And, as you say, you can only take one of the two (yours or theirs, whichever is higher).

But - the lesson here is that the person in question needs to get himself to a SS office and have a talk with an agent about his particular situation. Get the actual facts about his actual situation. And then make some decisions (get married? stay the course? etc.)

[JGS1980]

PTF

[Samuel]

On the other hand, to do him strict justice, losing those licenses was not the blow to him that it might be to most people, as he never was very employable, and even when he was, felt degraded by mere labor, as his true calling was to be a spiritual leader to the rest of us.     

:)

Couldn't let that gem go by unappreciated.

[cloudsail]

So I have a situation, I wouldn't exactly call it drama, maybe I just need to vent.

My MIL passed away earlier this year. She fought lung cancer for a year, so before she died she was very explicit about how she wanted things distributed. They have three kids, my husband is the youngest. She willed an apartment in Taipei to their daughter, who currently lives there. It's worth approximately $800,000. She willed their primary residence in Vancouver BC to the oldest son. It was purchased for approximately $1.6M. She wanted my BIL to give us $800,000 CDN as half the value of the house.

Now my husband has this extreme aversion to taking money from his relatives. It really just makes him feel bad. At first he said he didn't want any of it, and that his brother had a right to the house since he was going to be living in it with their dad and taking care of him. But obviously my MIL was not going to agree to not leaving her youngest anything. She was very insistent on everything being equal. So we said okay.

My BIL is an upstanding guy and even before my MIL passed has been asking us to setup a Canadian dollar account so he can wire the money to us. But my husband has been trying to avoid it. He basically just changes the subject whenever his brother brings it up. I talked about going to the nearest HSBC and setting up an account but he never seems to want to do it. There was also talk about buying property on Vancouver Island, at which point he actually expressed the wish for his brother to retain ownership of any properties purchased. So essentially he just doesn't want the money.

We are very stable financially and well on our way to FI in about six years, but $800,000 CDN is a lot of money. Even just sitting in a savings account at 1% interest that's $8000 a year. Knowing my BIL he would try very hard to get the money to us, but it kind of galls me that that kind of money meanwhile is just sitting there. Also I'm not sure how hard he would try if my husband just doesn't want to cooperate. My fear is that eventually the issue might just die.

Anyway, that's the inheritance drama in my life right now, and yes, I'm aware that it lies entirely with my husband.

Does anyone remember my inheritance drama from two years ago? I thought I'd post an update, two years down the road.

The situation has changed quite a bit. Not too long after I made my post, my BIL was diagnosed with stage 3 colon cancer. His original plan for paying us the $800,000 was to give us $300,000 in cash and take out a HELOC on the house for the rest (the house is probably worth around $2M CDN now). As I mentioned, he was very eager to get this settled.

Things changed with his cancer diagnoses. He no longer wanted to take out a large loan, not knowing how long he had left to live. He has two young children. His wife is trained as a nurse but doesn't currently work. His immediate concern became looking after his family, which is totally expected and understandable.

After a lot of reasoning, I convinced my husband to take the $300,000 that BIL had set aside in cash for us. And that is all I expect to receive. BIL has responded very well to cancer treatment and is in remission. He still talks about owing us half a million dollars sometimes, but we have no intention of taking the money from him, and I don't think he seriously wants to go into debt for that much anymore either. We also haven't touched the $300,000 and I don't include it into our financial calculations. That money is set aside in case my husband's family needs financial help in the future, specifically his dad, who has at least a couple million in his bank account but never invests and isn't great about refusing financial sponging from his extended family.

All in all, it's a very good thing we discovered FIRE and have set ourselves up financially such that we can basically ignore the impact that $800,000 CDN might have on our lives.

[talltexan]

Thank you for this update. It sounds as though the brothers have come to an understanding that makes everyone happy. Would you consider investing some portion of your $300,000 fund in a non-cash vehicle. I agree that 100% VTI is too risky in case a need arises in the next few years, but would you consider some modification of the "Larry" portfolio so that there could still be long-term growth?

My dad had bypass surgery in March (he lives in TX), and--while there was some drama with my mom--it was a relief to have financial freedom in solving those problems. The focus could be entirely on designing a lifestyle that suited my dad health-wise, with the resources available to create that and compensate my wife and me for the money we spent on travel.

[Rosielicious]

Well I just lost a lot of hours to binge-reading this thread. So much DRAMA! And some nice stories of people doing the right thing by their loved ones.

Some of it makes me pretty glad I only have a small family.

[rjfan]

I had a great aunt, my grandfathers sister. She escaped to Sweden before WW2, became pretty rich.
My grandfathers brother, my great uncle then, with hes two daughters wanted that inheritance. They lied and lied and lied about all other relatives so that my great aunt would not have contact with anybody.

Problem was that aunt lived to 94. Meanwhile uncle died, and his daughters were in their 60s. They were so pissed off about my aunts longevity that they kept her body in freezer in morgue for half year.

Since nobody was allowed to have contact with aunt she died alone. That's the sad part. I visited her a lot, when I was little boy and she was pretty cool. She had a great library in her home.

Another part of my relatives had falling out over house that was inherited from my mothers side, everybody wanted piece of that house. Now that they are in 70-s and old they wanted to make up with everybody. Guess they want to face death with clean conscience.

Forgiving them seems to be right thing to do but damn... just want to yell at them for being so dumb and choosing money over relatives.

[Zamboni]

Haven't been to this thread in ages, but I have two things to add:

1)@TheGrimSqueaker, thank you for starting your blog! I will read it shortly as I know it will crack me up.

2) You probably have forgotten about all of this, since it was on like page 2 or 3 of this thread, but my Grandma "Grace" was quite a handful of folly, evil, and spite. Well, unfortunately it seems like my Mom, whom we now call Granny, is slowly turning into Granny Grace.

Granny Grace has just informed me that I am "executrix" of her will. She made sure I know that the proper term is executrix. Uh huh.

Granny Grace is a bit of a hoarder, although she did move a few years ago which dramatically helped the situation . . . at the time of the move, she got overwhelmed and agreed to have most of her crap hauled away and sold by a couple of her neighbors. Praise baby Jesus! She has shown me the secret places in her new house where she stashes her remaining secret loot. This thread has taught me I can refuse both duty and property when the time comes . . . thank you all for that!

Her latest shenanigans:

Granny Grace bought a vintage 80's Chevy Camaro "for" one of my nephews for the low low price of $8K. Her idea was that he would buy it from her, but he was a teenager trying to finish high school at the time: no money. Certainly no $8K.

So, of course, she has never let him have it because he had to pay for it first. Right before the purchase, she asked what I thought and I told her not to buy the car. She has 12 grandkids . . . is she going to buy them all cars? Obviously not. She also asked my brother (nephew's Dad) and he told her not to buy it . . . besides the obvious reasons, he had already purchased his son a used Prius, which was right nice of him.
Seems that all adults who are not Granny Grace think a teen-aged boy driving a Chevy Camaro is a bad idea (in an area with long, harsh snowy winters, no less).

She never registered or insured this glorious muscle car, and so it has been under its fancy car sheet parked in her carport for a couple of years. Nephew is now thousands of miles away in the military. I told her that the battery is likely dead at this point and the tires are probably getting destroyed because the car never moves. She retorted that she could sell it for more than she bought it for. Whatever.

Honestly, I hope she is right about the car resale value. She has always been poor and it was $8K that she will eventually need for food. She only even had $8K on hand because she had just downsized her home.

The real gem, though, came on my last visit. During this visit, Granny Grace said that she is leaving my brother her house but that she has thought up a way to "even things out."

According to her, we should not tell anyone when she dies. She let me know that, unbeknownst to me, she still has the joint savings account that she opened for me when I was like 5 years old (it is in another state . . . not the state that she lives in now and not the state that I live in now). Seriously my signature on that thing is from when I could barely write my name, and last time I saw that account before I left for college the balance was right around a hundred dollars. She pitched the idea that I not tell anyone she died, that way, get this: I can continue depositing her social security check into that account for years after. She pitched it like this criminal idea was some kind of gift to me that I should be grateful to receive.

That's right: good old-fashioned social security fraud of the worst kind. What the literal fuck?!

Yes, I informed her that this was both immoral and illegal and I would do no such thing, which seemed to disappoint her. I didn't even let her get to her ideas about what to do with her body (it seemed like she had thought it through and was eager to explain the whole caper, but I cut her off.) Then I made her feel better by ensuring her that she was going to live many more years, so it's not something she should even be thinking about right now.

On the bright side, I'm confident that my brother will also have nothing to do with her ridiculous ideas. We are going to be the anti-inheritance drama wonder twins.

So now I am concerned about something else: my own will has Granny Grace listed as managing the trust for my kids if I die before they are adults. I'm going to have to get the bank to do it, apparently, as she is now confirmed as both incompetent and dishonest. Sigh. I won't go into the reasons why I don't want my brother or other relatives to handle it . . . the bank it is!

[marty998]

According to her, we should not tell anyone when she dies. She let me know that, unbeknownst to me, she still has the joint savings account that she opened for me when I was like 5 years old (it is in another state . . . not that state that she lives in now and not the state that I live in now). Seriously my signature on that thing is from when I could barely write my name, and last time I saw that account before I left for college the balance was right around a hundred dollars. She pitched the idea that I not tell anyone she died, that way, get this: I can continue depositing her social security check into that account for years after. She pitched it like this criminal idea was some kind of gift to me that I should be grateful to receive.

That's right: good old-fashioned social security fraud of the worst kind. What the literal fuck?!

Everyone thinks old people are sweet and nice. They can be the worst kind of crooks given the opportunity :)

No one ever suspects little ol' granny who bakes cupcakes and donates to church.

[Hula Hoop]

Zamboni - that is nuts.  Any chance that she's getting dementia?  How could  anyone think SS fraud is a great idea for 'evening things out"?

[Zamboni]

Yeah, I was pretty taken aback by her suggestion.

I talked to my brother about it, and he was not surprised although he hadn't heard about this particular nonsense yet. She has always had a series of nutty ideas, and it seems she floats crazy schemes by him quite regularly. It is not new behavior and not dementia as far as we can see. Most of her schemes involve him doing something for her that he doesn't want to do for reasons ranging from he just doesn't have time to it would be illegal. All of them involve her benefiting directly through either money or having to do less labor. He has good boundaries and declines her ideas firmly and repeatedly.

His opinion is that she's just always been dishonest. She is one of those hypocritical "lecture everyone else about how important honesty is" kind of dishonest people. Kids tend to revere their parents regardless of how they really are, so I always tried to give her the benefit of the doubt growing up, and then there were all the honesty lectures. He has spent a lot more time with her as an adult (I escaped to another state as soon as I could) . . . and he has observed and reflected on her behavior a lot more than I have.

It seems to me like what lies behind her insane plan to defraud the government is that she wants to feel like she is giving us some inheritance when in reality she has nothing of value to leave us. We don't care that she has no money to leave. She seems to want something to use as leverage now so she is grasping at straws. She seems to want to stir up drama between her kids over distribution of her imaginary vast estate. Her own parents, who were truly awful people in many ways, did the same thing to her and her sisters, only they somewhat bought into it. We are just not buying into her bullshit.

Inheritance drama is always tedious. Inheritance drama stirred up by a person who is still alive and has nothing of value to leave heirs is totally ridiculous.

[Candace]

Yeah, I was pretty taken aback by her suggestion.

I talked to my brother about it, and he was not surprised although he hadn't heard about this particular nonsense yet. She has always had a series of nutty ideas, and it seems she floats crazy schemes by him quite regularly. It is not new behavior and not dementia as far as we can see. Most of her schemes involve him doing something for her that he doesn't want to do for reasons ranging from he just doesn't have time to it would be illegal. All of them involve her benefiting directly through either money or having to do less labor. He has good boundaries and declines her ideas firmly and repeatedly.

His opinion is that she's just always been dishonest. She is one of those hypocritical "lecture everyone else about how important honesty is" kind of dishonest people. Kids tend to revere their parents regardless of how they really are, so I always tried to give her the benefit of the doubt growing up, and then there were all the honesty lectures. He has spent a lot more time with her as an adult (I escaped to another state as soon as I could) . . . and he has observed and reflected on her behavior a lot more than I have.

It seems to me like what lies behind her insane plan to defraud the government is that she wants to feel like she is giving us some inheritance when in reality she has nothing of value to leave us. We don't care that she has no money to leave. She seems to want something to use as leverage now so she is grasping at straws. She seems to want to stir up drama between her kids over distribution of her imaginary vast estate. Her own parents, who were truly awful people in many ways, did the same thing to her and her sisters, only they somewhat bought into it. We are just not buying into her bullshit.

Inheritance drama is always tedious. Inheritance drama stirred up by a person who is still alive and has nothing of value to leave heirs is totally ridiculous.

I'm so sorry you have to deal with this. You and your brother are to be commended for the way you're both handling it. It must be difficult for both of you. Congratulations on breaking the cycle of crazy-ass bullshit.

[former player]

Yeah, I was pretty taken aback by her suggestion.

I talked to my brother about it, and he was not surprised although he hadn't heard about this particular nonsense yet. She has always had a series of nutty ideas, and it seems she floats crazy schemes by him quite regularly. It is not new behavior and not dementia as far as we can see. Most of her schemes involve him doing something for her that he doesn't want to do for reasons ranging from he just doesn't have time to it would be illegal. All of them involve her benefiting directly through either money or having to do less labor. He has good boundaries and declines her ideas firmly and repeatedly.

His opinion is that she's just always been dishonest. She is one of those hypocritical "lecture everyone else about how important honesty is" kind of dishonest people. Kids tend to revere their parents regardless of how they really are, so I always tried to give her the benefit of the doubt growing up, and then there were all the honesty lectures. He has spent a lot more time with her as an adult (I escaped to another state as soon as I could) . . . and he has observed and reflected on her behavior a lot more than I have.

It seems to me like what lies behind her insane plan to defraud the government is that she wants to feel like she is giving us some inheritance when in reality she has nothing of value to leave us. We don't care that she has no money to leave. She seems to want something to use as leverage now so she is grasping at straws. She seems to want to stir up drama between her kids over distribution of her imaginary vast estate. Her own parents, who were truly awful people in many ways, did the same thing to her and her sisters, only they somewhat bought into it. We are just not buying into her bullshit.

Inheritance drama is always tedious. Inheritance drama stirred up by a person who is still alive and has nothing of value to leave heirs is totally ridiculous.

I'm so sorry you have to deal with this. You and your brother are to be commended for the way you're both handling it. It must be difficult for both of you. Congratulations on breaking the cycle of crazy-ass bullshit.

I agree with Candace, and I'm particularly impressed that you and your brother are on the same page over this - "divide and rule" is so often used against siblings in this sort of situation.

[BTDretire]

she filled out a form that specifies it is to be split 4 ways when she dies (1/4 to each kid). Hopefully that is sufficient? 

In my family, the conflicts weren't over easy things like dividing up bank accounts.

One example:  Before my grandmother died, she moved into an assisted living facility and one of my cousins (and her family) moved into grandma's house (not free, but at very a very subsidized rent).  When grandma died, the will specified that the house be sold and the proceeds divided between her children, but the cousin's family tried to argue that cousin should get to keep renting the house, because grandma had been letting her live there, and they were going to be homeless without it.  Are you prepared to kick out a family with small children just so you can cash out of a property in accordance with the will?  Parts of my family still aren't speaking to each other after this debacle.

Another example:  My other grandma spent the last few years of her life living with the wealthiest one of her four children, in their big fancy house.  Her assets helped pay for building an integrated MIL suite, and then supporting the household for all of those years.  When she moved into a nursing home, her assets had to be depleted to zero to qualify for medicare and she died penniless.  The one daughter she had lived with was left with approximately a half million dollars in improved real estate value as part of her primary residence, that grandma had paid for, but which was technically not one of grandma's assets.  The other three kids got nothing of value, other than picture and keepsakes. None of the other siblings were prepared to cry foul, so the one daughter who was already rich was the only one who got anything of value from grandma's assets and everyone sort of swallowed hard and moved on.

These sorts of complications are hard to foresee when you write a will, because neither of them were issues until the end-stages of life.

 I bolded the above because I'm in a slightly similar situation. Mom was not doing well, my sister moved in with her and took care of her for maybe a year.  Got on the checking account to help pay the bills. When mom died, she left the house to both of us.
 I let her stay in the house rent free because she did take care of mom.
It's now going on 7 years, and I'm kinda stuck, she has a low paying job, no assets and probably couldn't qualify for a mortgage. If I forced a sale, she would probably be back to living in a van with her girlfriend.
 When I talk to her, there is always some comment to let me know just how tight money is, even though I have never brought up the idea of her paying me anything.

[AMandM]

Yeah, I was pretty taken aback by her suggestion.

I talked to my brother about it, and he was not surprised although he hadn't heard about this particular nonsense yet. She has always had a series of nutty ideas, and it seems she floats crazy schemes by him quite regularly. It is not new behavior and not dementia as far as we can see.

My grandmother had highly idiosyncratic ideas of how the world works, or should work, and based her behavior on that rather than on the actual world.  E.g., she decided that her pension should not be taxable, so she didn't declare it on her tax return. After she died we had to submit several years of amended tax returns.

[Dicey]

Lol, my grandmother did the same thing. She decided to stop paying her heating oil bill on her large house in Cambridge, MA, because "They fill it anyway, even if I don't pay it." Um, that's because two of her six children, who had eleven young children between them, paid it for her. I know what a sacrifice it was for them, because one of them was my dad.

[bugbaby]

she filled out a form that specifies it is to be split 4 ways when she dies (1/4 to each kid). Hopefully that is sufficient? 

In my family, the conflicts weren't over easy things like dividing up bank accounts.

One example:  Before my grandmother died, she moved into an assisted living facility and one of my cousins (and her family) moved into grandma's house (not free, but at very a very subsidized rent).  When grandma died, the will specified that the house be sold and the proceeds divided between her children, but the cousin's family tried to argue that cousin should get to keep renting the house, because grandma had been letting her live there, and they were going to be homeless without it.  Are you prepared to kick out a family with small children just so you can cash out of a property in accordance with the will?  Parts of my family still aren't speaking to each other after this debacle.

Another example:  My other grandma spent the last few years of her life living with the wealthiest one of her four children, in their big fancy house.  Her assets helped pay for building an integrated MIL suite, and then supporting the household for all of those years.  When she moved into a nursing home, her assets had to be depleted to zero to qualify for medicare and she died penniless.  The one daughter she had lived with was left with approximately a half million dollars in improved real estate value as part of her primary residence, that grandma had paid for, but which was technically not one of grandma's assets.  The other three kids got nothing of value, other than picture and keepsakes. None of the other siblings were prepared to cry foul, so the one daughter who was already rich was the only one who got anything of value from grandma's assets and everyone sort of swallowed hard and moved on.

These sorts of complications are hard to foresee when you write a will, because neither of them were issues until the end-stages of life.

 I bolded the above because I'm in a slightly similar situation. Mom was not doing well, my sister moved in with her and took care of her for maybe a year.  Got on the checking account to help pay the bills. When mom died, she left the house to both of us.
 I let her stay in the house rent free because she did take care of mom.
It's now going on 7 years, and I'm kinda stuck, she has a low paying job, no assets and probably couldn't qualify for a mortgage. If I forced a sale, she would probably be back to living in a van with her girlfriend.
 When I talk to her, there is always some comment to let me know just how tight money is, even though I have never brought up the idea of her paying me anything.

The best thing for everyone is to either sign it over to her her or evict her.  Pick one or the other.  You are both responsible for the current situation.

I sold my sister a house to pay me interest free as she could not afford a mortgage. After a few years she began to get resentful about it. I just gifted her the damn thing and removed myself from that potentially toxic dynamic. 

Sent from my KIW-L24 using Tapatalk

[Mesmoiselle]

I'm confused why "the richest daughter" getting improved real estate factors into anything. If grandma had bought her daughter 8 collector cars now valued at a quarter million all together, it doesn't matter- that's called a gift. You can get "your share" of a gift.

[Just Joe]

she filled out a form that specifies it is to be split 4 ways when she dies (1/4 to each kid). Hopefully that is sufficient? 

In my family, the conflicts weren't over easy things like dividing up bank accounts.

One example:  Before my grandmother died, she moved into an assisted living facility and one of my cousins (and her family) moved into grandma's house (not free, but at very a very subsidized rent).  When grandma died, the will specified that the house be sold and the proceeds divided between her children, but the cousin's family tried to argue that cousin should get to keep renting the house, because grandma had been letting her live there, and they were going to be homeless without it.  Are you prepared to kick out a family with small children just so you can cash out of a property in accordance with the will?  Parts of my family still aren't speaking to each other after this debacle.

Another example:  My other grandma spent the last few years of her life living with the wealthiest one of her four children, in their big fancy house.  Her assets helped pay for building an integrated MIL suite, and then supporting the household for all of those years.  When she moved into a nursing home, her assets had to be depleted to zero to qualify for medicare and she died penniless.  The one daughter she had lived with was left with approximately a half million dollars in improved real estate value as part of her primary residence, that grandma had paid for, but which was technically not one of grandma's assets.  The other three kids got nothing of value, other than picture and keepsakes. None of the other siblings were prepared to cry foul, so the one daughter who was already rich was the only one who got anything of value from grandma's assets and everyone sort of swallowed hard and moved on.

These sorts of complications are hard to foresee when you write a will, because neither of them were issues until the end-stages of life.

 I bolded the above because I'm in a slightly similar situation. Mom was not doing well, my sister moved in with her and took care of her for maybe a year.  Got on the checking account to help pay the bills. When mom died, she left the house to both of us.
 I let her stay in the house rent free because she did take care of mom.
It's now going on 7 years, and I'm kinda stuck, she has a low paying job, no assets and probably couldn't qualify for a mortgage. If I forced a sale, she would probably be back to living in a van with her girlfriend.
 When I talk to her, there is always some comment to let me know just how tight money is, even though I have never brought up the idea of her paying me anything.

Could you force a sale and help her find something she can afford or that offers a potential rental option (duplex or basement apartment)? That way she gets something that she can afford to take care of and you get your part. Any house will require maintenance. I could imagine her struggling to have the roofing replaced or the HVAC replaced.

[Dragonswan]

So now I am concerned about something else: my own will has Granny Grace listed as managing the trust for my kids if I die before they are adults. I'm going to have to get the bank to do it, apparently, as she is now confirmed as both incompetent and dishonest. Sigh. I won't go into the reasons why I don't want my brother or other relatives to handle it . . . the bank it is!

Oh come on now, tell us the reasons.  You know we live vicariously.

[saguaro]

Yeah, I was pretty taken aback by her suggestion.

I talked to my brother about it, and he was not surprised although he hadn't heard about this particular nonsense yet. She has always had a series of nutty ideas, and it seems she floats crazy schemes by him quite regularly. It is not new behavior and not dementia as far as we can see. Most of her schemes involve him doing something for her that he doesn't want to do for reasons ranging from he just doesn't have time to it would be illegal. All of them involve her benefiting directly through either money or having to do less labor. He has good boundaries and declines her ideas firmly and repeatedly.

His opinion is that she's just always been dishonest. She is one of those hypocritical "lecture everyone else about how important honesty is" kind of dishonest people. Kids tend to revere their parents regardless of how they really are, so I always tried to give her the benefit of the doubt growing up, and then there were all the honesty lectures. He has spent a lot more time with her as an adult (I escaped to another state as soon as I could) . . . and he has observed and reflected on her behavior a lot more than I have.

It seems to me like what lies behind her insane plan to defraud the government is that she wants to feel like she is giving us some inheritance when in reality she has nothing of value to leave us. We don't care that she has no money to leave. She seems to want something to use as leverage now so she is grasping at straws. She seems to want to stir up drama between her kids over distribution of her imaginary vast estate. Her own parents, who were truly awful people in many ways, did the same thing to her and her sisters, only they somewhat bought into it. We are just not buying into her bullshit.

Inheritance drama is always tedious. Inheritance drama stirred up by a person who is still alive and has nothing of value to leave heirs is totally ridiculous.

I'm so sorry you have to deal with this. You and your brother are to be commended for the way you're both handling it. It must be difficult for both of you. Congratulations on breaking the cycle of crazy-ass bullshit.

I agree with Candace, and I'm particularly impressed that you and your brother are on the same page over this - "divide and rule" is so often used against siblings in this sort of situation.

To the bolded DH is currently dealing with this from his still living parents.   He has one sister and his parents have always played their two children against each other (the classic Golden Child / scapegoat dynamic) but right now there's drama (again) with SIL and her children, where they are mad at her so now DH is being told how he will inherit all that they planned to give her.  They have supposedly valuable artwork from their artwork buying spree in the 90s, that they are convinced is worth of lot of money and if he wants it, he can take it and in their exact words "get it away from your sister".

DH is not falling for it, he's all too used to his parents' drama and knows that it can change in a heartbeat, and things will flip back to SIL being their Golden Child again. And she will get the artwork again which she can have as far as he's concerned.  He doesn't want to be a part of their drama and frankly they have all shown not to be all that honest either. 

[marion10]

My husband was specifically left an organ grinders' bench in his mother's will. We have no idea what this is- he doesn't remember any bench in his house that was called an organ grinders' bench. There were no benches in the house. Total mystery what this thing was.

[Fuzzy Buttons]

My husband was specifically left an organ grinders' bench in his mother's will. We have no idea what this is- he doesn't remember any bench in his house that was called an organ grinders' bench. There were no benches in the house. Total mystery what this thing was.

That's hilarious.  I'm now tempted to update my will to specifically leave one imaginary item to my sister with no explanation. 

[Goldielocks]

My husband was specifically left an organ grinders' bench in his mother's will. We have no idea what this is- he doesn't remember any bench in his house that was called an organ grinders' bench. There were no benches in the house. Total mystery what this thing was.

Lol... well,, an organ grinder was a crank (hand operated) organ, a bit like a very large music box... so if there were no musical instruments, and it just named a bench, it may have looked more like a small table, or even a baby pram with wheels / cart.

[Zamboni]

So now I am concerned about something else: my own will has Granny Grace listed as managing the trust for my kids if I die before they are adults. I'm going to have to get the bank to do it, apparently, as she is now confirmed as both incompetent and dishonest. Sigh. I won't go into the reasons why I don't want my brother or other relatives to handle it . . . the bank it is!

Oh come on now, tell us the reasons.  You know we live vicariously.

The issue is mostly the sheer sum of money, but combines with the needs and judgement of my relatives. If I kick off on my way to the pitch tonight, or any time in the next decade, then each of my children will inherit about $1MM between assets and insurance. That is a decent chunk of money.

The other parent of my spawn has been out of work for nearly a year and is devolving into serious financial trouble. Any money would be used selfishly on what I consider a ridiculous lifestyle while rationalizing that it is really being spent for the kids. I am certain of this. So, other parent is out, as are grandparents on that side, who would just funnel all of the money to other parent to fritter without hesitation.

My Mom, aka Granny Grace, is the current trust holder (trustee?) but it turns out she is completely dishonest, as noted above, and possibly losing her marbles, so she is out. I just have to get someone at the bank to help me set up the new trust (I did go by my credit union the other day, but the guy who does that was out of the office. Sigh.)

One of my brothers and his wife run a charity of sorts. I am concerned that they will see this sum of money and think it could be much better spent on those who benefit from their charity. They are probably right . . . but it is my wish to leave it to my heirs. I also think they will find it unfair that my children have access to so much money while their own children will be scrabbling to get started on their own. Also, as far as I know, they have nothing saved for retirement. If they had just a couple of children, then I would probably split the sum between my own children and my nieces and nephews and not worry about it. But, I have 10 nieces and nephews (and counting), so that divides the money too thinly imho and it is not going to work for me.

My Dad is broke and will work until he dies. His wife has several adult children who are not in good financial positions (she has declared bankruptcy herself, some of her children have bankruptcies or felony convictions in their pasts). Again, I am concerned that the money would be misspent either on their retirement or on her adult children.

There are more candidates, but you get the idea . . . I just don't think I have anyone in my family to handle it properly. I'd rather pay the bank 1% a year and know the majority of the money is actually going for my own children's health, education, and maintenance.

[fredbear]

...
There are more candidates, but you get the idea . . . I just don't think I have anyone in my family to handle it properly. I'd rather pay the bank 1% a year and know the majority of the money is actually going for my own children's health, education, and maintenance.

+1
My half-brother was trustee of his father's trust, which covered him and 2 older brothers.  They spent the endless hours of leisure the trust offered them wheedling for more money, complaining that there wasn't as much money as there should have been (he had had to pay estate taxes, something wholly incomprehensible to them), begging, and ovulating weird potential future lives for him to fund.  He discovered that Messrs Merrill Lynch Pierce Fenner and Smith would accept the trusteeship and devolved it on them.  MLPF&S took all the flak, doled out the money quarterly with flinty fairness, and quickly trained the older brothers to shut up, as no noise no matter how mewling or plangent would soften their iron corporate heart.  Go for it.  The bank should have someone calm, grayish, experienced, and polite, able when necessary to present when necessary a heart of whole and entire stone to the most grasping relatives.

[marion10]

My husband was specifically left an organ grinders' bench in his mother's will. We have no idea what this is- he doesn't remember any bench in his house that was called an organ grinders' bench. There were no benches in the house. Total mystery what this thing was.

Lol... well,, an organ grinder was a crank (hand operated) organ, a bit like a very large music box... so if there were no musical instruments, and it just named a bench, it may have looked more like a small table, or even a baby pram with wheels / cart.

It’s a joke in our house now. The estate was very small- especially after my MIL spent many years in a nursing home, so it’s not like his brothers got a huge amount and he got nothing.

On trusts/ executors- I am leery for the reason described above- I was beneficiary of a medium size trust from my grandfather ( along with my siblings) and my father helped himself to the proceeds- probably saying to himself that he would pay us back- and skipped town. It happens. Fortunately we were adults ( trust was in place until youngest child was 25- she was 19)

[former player]

I am now at the point of not knowing whether I should be more gobsmacked by the fecklessness and larceny of all y'all's relatives or by the utter probity of mine.

[merula]

Zamboni, do you have a non-family member who you would trust with something like this? I'm thinking a Sirius Black type BFF/godfather. (Though someone who will be able to stay out of jail would be a plus.)

[sol]

Any money would be used selfishly on what I consider a ridiculous lifestyle while rationalizing that it is really being spent for the kids.

We have accepted this situation.  If we both die, our estate goes into trust for our kids, but the trustee is the same person who would be raising the kids and I'm sure she would spend down every penny of it before they turned 18, and they would get nothing at that point.  She would justify it by saying she needs a bigger house and a new van for the extra kids, and she wouldn't be able to buy anything for our kids without spending just as much (of our money) on her kids.  The whole family would live faaaar beyond their means for a few years, then revert to financial chaos when our money runs out.

But isn't that the best outcome anyway?  I think I'd rather get my kids launched at age 18 with a secure childhood full of wasteful spending behind them, than have them go hungry until then and then suddenly get a giant inheritance which they would promptly mismanage.

[Finallyunderstand]

...
There are more candidates, but you get the idea . . . I just don't think I have anyone in my family to handle it properly. I'd rather pay the bank 1% a year and know the majority of the money is actually going for my own children's health, education, and maintenance.

+1
My half-brother was trustee of his father's trust, which covered him and 2 older brothers.  They spent the endless hours of leisure the trust offered them wheedling for more money, complaining that there wasn't as much money as there should have been (he had had to pay estate taxes, something wholly incomprehensible to them), begging, and ovulating weird potential future lives for him to fund.  He discovered that Messrs Merrill Lynch Pierce Fenner and Smith would accept the trusteeship and devolved it on them.  MLPF&S took all the flak, doled out the money quarterly with flinty fairness, and quickly trained the older brothers to shut up, as no noise no matter how mewling or plangent would soften their iron corporate heart.  Go for it.  The bank should have someone calm, grayish, experienced, and polite, able when necessary to present when necessary a heart of whole and entire stone to the most grasping relatives.

@fredbear are you a writer or enjoy writing?  Maybe a wordsmith in hiding?  For some reason I thoroughly enjoyed your post simply due to the words used.

[iris lily]

...
There are more candidates, but you get the idea . . . I just don't think I have anyone in my family to handle it properly. I'd rather pay the bank 1% a year and know the majority of the money is actually going for my own children's health, education, and maintenance.

+1
My half-brother was trustee of his father's trust, which covered him and 2 older brothers.  They spent the endless hours of leisure the trust offered them wheedling for more money, complaining that there wasn't as much money as there should have been (he had had to pay estate taxes, something wholly incomprehensible to them), begging, and ovulating weird potential future lives for him to fund.  He discovered that Messrs Merrill Lynch Pierce Fenner and Smith would accept the trusteeship and devolved it on them.  MLPF&S took all the flak, doled out the money quarterly with flinty fairness, and quickly trained the older brothers to shut up, as no noise no matter how mewling or plangent would soften their iron corporate heart.  Go for it.  The bank should have someone calm, grayish, experienced, and polite, able when necessary to present when necessary a heart of whole and entire stone to the most grasping relatives.

Sir, your way with words is very enjoyable.

[partgypsy]

I enjoy reading these because I think my family is a bit of a trainwreck, but reading these, I am left with, "it could definitely be worse". The worst inheritance story in my family was, my grandfather died, and then my grandmother became a bit of a recluse in the paid for home. My alcoholic uncle moved in at some point, and unknown to the other two siblings (my mother and my other uncle) got power of attorney and had her write a will where he inherited the house, was trustee. When grandmother needed medical assistance, uncle intervened intimidated the nurses and insisted she get no intervention whatsoever - not even tube feeding. My mother and uncle met with the doctors, found out they could do nothing, scrambled for legal representation to overturn the POA. However she died before the POA could be overturned. Uncle disregarded all her verbal (and even written preferences) (sentimental items going to other children such as a portrait grandma painted by my grandfather, grandfather's war correspondence, burial arrangements), liquidated the house contents and sold the house, and told his siblings after the fact. Mother and other uncle went ahead arranged burial and funeral arrangement so her wishes were honored (Catholic funeral and burial in her home town). Needless to say, Uncle was not invited to the funeral, but showed up anyways. From what I heard, he took all the money that was liquidated in cash, moved to be close to a reservation casino where within a few years, had gone through the money. He became homeless for a time and even moved in with other uncle for awhile, until conflicts with the wife got so bad he was kicked out. He still writes hard luck letters to my Mom, and unbelievably, Mom still sometimes sends him money or small things like warm socks, etc.

The only other inheritance stories I know, are disagreements between my Mom and other uncle about furniture from great grandfather, and on my ex's side, between his Mom and aunt, who got grandfather's antique bottle collection. So some complaints from the losing party but not enough hard feelings for any fallings out.

[markbike528CBX]

+1
My half-brother was trustee of his father's trust, which covered him and 2 older brothers.  They spent the endless hours of leisure the trust offered them wheedling for more money, complaining that there wasn't as much money as there should have been (he had had to pay estate taxes, something wholly incomprehensible to them), begging, and ovulating weird potential future lives for him to fund.  He discovered that Messrs Merrill Lynch Pierce Fenner and Smith would accept the trusteeship and devolved it on them.  MLPF&S took all the flak, doled out the money quarterly with flinty fairness, and quickly trained the older brothers to shut up, as no noise no matter how mewling or plangent would soften their iron corporate heart.  Go for it.  The bank should have someone calm, grayish, experienced, and polite, able when necessary to present when necessary a heart of whole and entire stone to the most grasping relatives.

Pray tell what did MLPF&S charge for this service?
And trained the brothers, but how?
I'D charge per bleat/whine out of their allotment.

I'm not a fan of 3d party oversight of money, but this seems like a good deal.