Author Topic: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.  (Read 1072667 times)

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2200 on: August 31, 2020, 11:17:16 AM »
I don't hear from her again until 2018. I get a FB request. She is living in a subsidized apartment and wants to use me as a job reference.  Sure, why not. She actually is good at what she does.  I don't hear from her again until this past Saturday.  Seems the job is gone, rent is due, and she doesn't have the money for the title loan.  I have not responded to the three texts, FB message, or the voicemail.

You're nicer than me. People who unfriend me intentionally don't get re-friended. It's because I've noticed that letting people back into my life after they do things that ordinarily end the relationship guarantees they will continue to do relationship-ending things while expecting me to hold up my end of the friendship. No thanks to all that.

If the request for aid came in any other way, I'd tell her that she should probably ask the lowlifes who helped her spend down her inheritance. Giving her a car, a free month's rent, and a sincere offer to help her with adult skills should have been more than enough. What idiots like this generally want is an enabler so that they can continue doing whatever thing got them in trouble. With some people it's booze or gambling; with this one it's random spending and failure to live within her means.

Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2201 on: August 31, 2020, 11:18:15 AM »
Back in 2011, a work acquaintance got fired.  A few weeks later, I messaged her on FB to see how she was doing.  Little did I know what sort of drama this simple act of compassion would bring. ...

This is so juicy that it almost needs its own ongoing thread. Wow. Just wow. You went above and beyond in multiple ways. Glad that you're not jumping on that sinking ship. Yikes.
Yikes indeed.

JGS1980

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2202 on: August 31, 2020, 12:36:04 PM »
Back in 2011, a work acquaintance got fired.  A few weeks later, I messaged her on FB to see how she was doing.  Little did I know what sort of drama this simple act of compassion would bring. ...

This is so juicy that it almost needs its own ongoing thread. Wow. Just wow. You went above and beyond in multiple ways. Glad that you're not jumping on that sinking ship. Yikes.

"Nobody Knows You When You're Down And Out"

Once I lived the life of a millionaire,
Spent all my money, didn't have any care.
Took all my friends out for a mighty good time,
Bought bootleg liquor, champagne and wine.

Then I began to fall so low,
Lost all my good friends, had nowhere to go.
I get my hands on a dollar again,
I'll hang on to it 'til that old eagle grins.

Because nobody loves you
When you're down and out.
In your pocket, not one penny,
And as for friends... you don't have many.

When you get back on your feet again,
Everybody wants to be your long-lost friend.
I said it straight without any doubt,
Nobody knows you when you're down and out........

Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2203 on: August 31, 2020, 12:40:09 PM »
Back in 2011, a work acquaintance got fired.  A few weeks later, I messaged her on FB to see how she was doing.  Little did I know what sort of drama this simple act of compassion would bring. ...

This is so juicy that it almost needs its own ongoing thread. Wow. Just wow. You went above and beyond in multiple ways. Glad that you're not jumping on that sinking ship. Yikes.
"Nobody Knows You When You're Down And Out"

Once I lived the life of a millionaire,
Spent all my money, didn't have any care.
Took all my friends out for a mighty good time,
Bought bootleg liquor, champagne and wine.

Then I began to fall so low,
Lost all my good friends, had nowhere to go.
I get my hands on a dollar again,
I'll hang on to it 'til that old eagle grins.

Because nobody loves you
When you're down and out.
In your pocket, not one penny,
And as for friends... you don't have many.

When you get back on your feet again,
Everybody wants to be your long-lost friend.
I said it straight without any doubt,
Nobody knows you when you're down and out........
Ahhh...Eric Clapton.

SwordGuy

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2204 on: August 31, 2020, 01:04:37 PM »
Back in 2011, a work acquaintance got fired.  A few weeks later, I messaged her on FB to see how she was doing.  Little did I know what sort of drama this simple act of compassion would bring. ...

This is so juicy that it almost needs its own ongoing thread. Wow. Just wow. You went above and beyond in multiple ways. Glad that you're not jumping on that sinking ship. Yikes.

Great song and absolutely not-applicable to the poster's situation.  He was a great friend to that person.   He went above and beyond.   He also learned (or decided to use) the old adage that you don't help people more than they are willing to help themselves.

"Nobody Knows You When You're Down And Out"

Once I lived the life of a millionaire,
Spent all my money, didn't have any care.
Took all my friends out for a mighty good time,
Bought bootleg liquor, champagne and wine.

Then I began to fall so low,
Lost all my good friends, had nowhere to go.
I get my hands on a dollar again,
I'll hang on to it 'til that old eagle grins.

Because nobody loves you
When you're down and out.
In your pocket, not one penny,
And as for friends... you don't have many.

When you get back on your feet again,
Everybody wants to be your long-lost friend.
I said it straight without any doubt,
Nobody knows you when you're down and out........

Imma

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2205 on: August 31, 2020, 01:39:02 PM »
Back in 2011, a work acquaintance got fired.  A few weeks later, I messaged her on FB to see how she was doing.  Little did I know what sort of drama this simple act of compassion would bring. ...

This is so juicy that it almost needs its own ongoing thread. Wow. Just wow. You went above and beyond in multiple ways. Glad that you're not jumping on that sinking ship. Yikes.

Isn't it remarkable how some people seem to have a talent for making the worst possible decision every single time? They were losing their place to live, but a friend offers them a roof over their head and a rent-free month. Then that friend offers to teach you car maintenance for free! I'd feel lucky if I was her.

And then there's a massive inheritance, enough money to buy a place outright, and a reliable vehicle - I know mustachians like mortgages but for an average person, owning a house outright is very sensible because you can't spend that money on crap anymore and you live there too. This kind of inheritance is life changing. But instead of taking that chance with both hands they waste it. As the Bon Jovi song says "luck ain't even lucky, gotta make your own breaks" and some people just refuse to make their own breaks even if they are handed to them on a silver platter.

jinga nation

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2206 on: August 31, 2020, 02:05:31 PM »
Back in 2011, a work acquaintance got fired.  A few weeks later, I messaged her on FB to see how she was doing.  Little did I know what sort of drama this simple act of compassion would bring.
...
In Real Life parable of the drowning man (asking God for help while ignoring rescue truck, raft, helicopter).

saguaro

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2207 on: August 31, 2020, 02:25:35 PM »
You're nicer than me. People who unfriend me intentionally don't get re-friended. It's because I've noticed that letting people back into my life after they do things that ordinarily end the relationship guarantees they will continue to do relationship-ending things while expecting me to hold up my end of the friendship. No thanks to all that.

This.   I helped out a very good friend who fell on hard times years ago.  Provided transportation when she decided to move cross country, gave her money, food and stored her stuff while she got on her feet.    Long story short, after a couple of years and a ton of drama, ties were cut but reestablished a few years later.   Then she cut ties again, this time unfriending me and not returning my calls.   Now she is crying out to me wanting to reestablish contact, apologizing for cutting ties again.    I just can't go there again, I just don't have the energy to deal with another round of drama.  Especially when she ended the last appeal that if "I wait too long, she might be six feet under".

mm1970

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2208 on: August 31, 2020, 06:18:14 PM »
I don't hear from her again until 2018. I get a FB request. She is living in a subsidized apartment and wants to use me as a job reference.  Sure, why not. She actually is good at what she does.  I don't hear from her again until this past Saturday.  Seems the job is gone, rent is due, and she doesn't have the money for the title loan.  I have not responded to the three texts, FB message, or the voicemail.

You're nicer than me. People who unfriend me intentionally don't get re-friended. It's because I've noticed that letting people back into my life after they do things that ordinarily end the relationship guarantees they will continue to do relationship-ending things while expecting me to hold up my end of the friendship. No thanks to all that.

If the request for aid came in any other way, I'd tell her that she should probably ask the lowlifes who helped her spend down her inheritance. Giving her a car, a free month's rent, and a sincere offer to help her with adult skills should have been more than enough. What idiots like this generally want is an enabler so that they can continue doing whatever thing got them in trouble. With some people it's booze or gambling; with this one it's random spending and failure to live within her means.
+1.

Heck, I'VE unfriended people on FB and then weeks later they notice and try to refriend me...yeah no.  There's a reason you are gone (not money related...)

I think you were FAR too generous - a car, free rent?

Finances_With_Purpose

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2209 on: August 31, 2020, 11:27:30 PM »
Back in 2011, a work acquaintance got fired.  A few weeks later, I messaged her on FB to see how she was doing.  Little did I know what sort of drama this simple act of compassion would bring. ...

This is so juicy that it almost needs its own ongoing thread. Wow. Just wow. You went above and beyond in multiple ways. Glad that you're not jumping on that sinking ship. Yikes.

It sounds like you've figured this out, @Uturn , but personally, I've found that significant money problems are most often a symptom of other problems: emotional, spiritual, and so on. 

You can't give someone enough financial coaching to solve an abusive childhood or whatever else might be causing the issue.  You can give someone all the money in the world and it'll often just make the problem worse, actually. 

We in the West, myself included, like to think that money solves problems, and there are a few it can solve, but money just as often causes problems or exacerbates them.  Meaning that you spent money and are even worse off for having tried to "help." 

So now, I think of it more like a magnifying glass: money merely magnifies what's already there.  Rarely does money or financial coaching (despite how much I love coaching) actually help dire situations, and it's even rarer to know whether money will help or will hurt a situation without a lot of information and relationship. 

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2210 on: September 01, 2020, 10:33:53 AM »
You're nicer than me. People who unfriend me intentionally don't get re-friended. It's because I've noticed that letting people back into my life after they do things that ordinarily end the relationship guarantees they will continue to do relationship-ending things while expecting me to hold up my end of the friendship. No thanks to all that.

This.   I helped out a very good friend who fell on hard times years ago.  Provided transportation when she decided to move cross country, gave her money, food and stored her stuff while she got on her feet.    Long story short, after a couple of years and a ton of drama, ties were cut but reestablished a few years later.   Then she cut ties again, this time unfriending me and not returning my calls.   Now she is crying out to me wanting to reestablish contact, apologizing for cutting ties again.    I just can't go there again, I just don't have the energy to deal with another round of drama.  Especially when she ended the last appeal that if "I wait too long, she might be six feet under".

When you receive a message like that, the best course of action is to forward it to the moderators or the response team on Facebook or whatever other social media platform you're using. Add a note indicating that you've been out of contact for years. Then respond to the contact with two sentences:

1. Anyone who threatens suicide to force someone else to communicate is not worth a third chance.
2. I have forwarded your message to the platform response team and they should be able to get you in touch with the help you need.

After that, use the block feature.

Sugaree

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2211 on: September 03, 2020, 04:43:09 AM »
My best friend's sister's husband died of a heart attack in his sleep Sunday night.  His family has called several times, not to check on their 10 year-old grandson, but to scream at the new widow about her choice to cremate him and to tell her to sign the title of his cars over to them.  He apparently made decent enough money buying older cars, fixing them up, and reselling them.  So, BFF's sister is currently holding the titles to 10 beaters in various stages of repair and a maybe rollback (she's not sure if he owned it outright or if he's the only one on the title).  His dad was on his bank account and has likely already emptied the account and now they want the cars too.  Unfortunately, the cars were being stored on his dad's land, so physically getting them may be a problem.  This is going to end up being a case of a bunch of people fighting over next to nothing.

Sibley

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2212 on: September 06, 2020, 11:53:22 AM »
My best friend's sister's husband died of a heart attack in his sleep Sunday night.  His family has called several times, not to check on their 10 year-old grandson, but to scream at the new widow about her choice to cremate him and to tell her to sign the title of his cars over to them.  He apparently made decent enough money buying older cars, fixing them up, and reselling them.  So, BFF's sister is currently holding the titles to 10 beaters in various stages of repair and a maybe rollback (she's not sure if he owned it outright or if he's the only one on the title).  His dad was on his bank account and has likely already emptied the account and now they want the cars too.  Unfortunately, the cars were being stored on his dad's land, so physically getting them may be a problem.  This is going to end up being a case of a bunch of people fighting over next to nothing.

Oh dear. Does the widow have enough money to pay the bills, feed the kid, etc? Because that is REALLY crappy of the grandfather if he drained the account.

Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2213 on: September 06, 2020, 01:20:10 PM »
If he hasn't already drained the account, she should close it asap and open a new one in her own name. If she's too devastated, please have someone trusted take her to the bank. Then put a freeze on his credit, so the less scrupulous can't tamper with that. After that, check into the titles on the cars. I'm sure there are ways to prevent him from selling them out from under her, but it will probably require a lawyer's help.

SunnyDays

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2214 on: September 06, 2020, 03:32:18 PM »
And after she's followed the above advice, cut ties with the whole lot of them.  Good God, what is wrong with people?

Captain FIRE

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2215 on: September 07, 2020, 12:52:51 PM »
Iím not normally in favor of GoFundMes, but in this case I make an exception. Create one for her in the sum of the amount the grandfather took with an explanation why, and tell the husbandís family youíll publicize it unless they return the money - and hand over the cars.

Ok, Iím guessing the person draining the account wouldnít care that their family, friends and neighbors know, but itíd make me feel better!

Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2216 on: September 07, 2020, 01:30:50 PM »
Iím not normally in favor of GoFundMes, but in this case I make an exception. Create one for her in the sum of the amount the grandfather took with an explanation why, and tell the husbandís family youíll publicize it unless they return the money - and hand over the cars.

Ok, Iím guessing the person draining the account wouldnít care that their family, friends and neighbors know, but itíd make me feel better!
I like the way you think, @Captain FIRE!

Sugaree

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2217 on: September 10, 2020, 10:12:10 AM »
Just a follow up.  The funeral was this weekend.  His father didn't show.  "Too sick" to come.  His brothers showed up halfway through and looked perturbed that they didn't wait more 30 minutes, after already starting 15 minutes late, in the blistering sun for them to get there.  A GFM has been started, albeit without calling out his family.  It turns out that she was never added to his bank account, so couldn't have accessed the money without going through probate anyway.  The widow and her dad made a surprise "we were in the area" visit to his father and just happened to have a bunch of totes in their car and were able to gather up most of his tools before they could vanish.  She has an appointment with SS this week to get the ball rolling on survivor's benefits, though they aren't sure that he has enough quarters on paper in the last three years to qualify as much of his car flipping was done unofficially.  Luckily, their house is in her and her sister's name and he was never put on the deed.   

SwordGuy

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2218 on: September 10, 2020, 11:00:58 AM »
Just a follow up.  The funeral was this weekend.  His father didn't show.  "Too sick" to come.  His brothers showed up halfway through and looked perturbed that they didn't wait more 30 minutes, after already starting 15 minutes late, in the blistering sun for them to get there.  A GFM has been started, albeit without calling out his family.  It turns out that she was never added to his bank account, so couldn't have accessed the money without going through probate anyway.  The widow and her dad made a surprise "we were in the area" visit to his father and just happened to have a bunch of totes in their car and were able to gather up most of his tools before they could vanish.  She has an appointment with SS this week to get the ball rolling on survivor's benefits, though they aren't sure that he has enough quarters on paper in the last three years to qualify as much of his car flipping was done unofficially.  Luckily, their house is in her and her sister's name and he was never put on the deed.   

I would swear out a warrant for felony theft and burglary.   

Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2219 on: September 10, 2020, 08:48:18 PM »
Just a follow up.  The funeral was this weekend.  His father didn't show.  "Too sick" to come.  His brothers showed up halfway through and looked perturbed that they didn't wait more 30 minutes, after already starting 15 minutes late, in the blistering sun for them to get there.  A GFM has been started, albeit without calling out his family.  It turns out that she was never added to his bank account, so couldn't have accessed the money without going through probate anyway.  The widow and her dad made a surprise "we were in the area" visit to his father and just happened to have a bunch of totes in their car and were able to gather up most of his tools before they could vanish.  She has an appointment with SS this week to get the ball rolling on survivor's benefits, though they aren't sure that he has enough quarters on paper in the last three years to qualify as much of his car flipping was done unofficially.  Luckily, their house is in her and her sister's name and he was never put on the deed.   

I would swear out a warrant for felony theft and burglary.
No, wait, I think Sugaree meant the widow and her father got the tools from the FIL's place. i.e. the good guys got most of the tools. I had to read it twice to be sure and I very much hope I got it right.

@Sugaree, how is it that she wasn't on the bank account?

talltexan

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2220 on: September 11, 2020, 05:57:42 AM »
Indeed this whole story has some odd details: name not on bank account, sister's name on house title instead of husband's.

It seems like there were ways this couple had opted to not join their legal affairs, which may well have been motivated by earlier family drama.

Imma

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2221 on: September 11, 2020, 06:47:40 AM »
I'm always surprised that so many people don't have their affairs in order. A lot of people really don't want to face their own mortality. Recently we found out that something like that happened in our family too - and that person was a mentally sharp 90-something. Even they had not seen death coming.

I have a law degree and whenever close friends go through a major life event I always inquire whether they've talked things through with a legal professional. I always say something like "I don't want to be rude, and I certainly don't want to know the details, but my professional experience is that it's important that you talk about your situation together to make sure you're on the same page about things and whether your paperwork reflects your wishes".

More than one couple actually came back to thank me about that, because they found out things they didn't know. Like that one person who bought a house with a relative, very similar to the situation described in this thread, relative moved out, new spouse moves in - my acquintance had absolutely no idea the relative was still on the deed and not the husband. They figured marriage would take care of that "because you get told you need to get married to get your affairs in order". Other fairly common things I've encountered in my work are life insurance policies benefitting an ex instead of a current partner, a new mortgage on a home one person owned before marriage that's on both names but the property is still in one name and outdated wills.

A very painful situation happened in my family not too long ago - my cousin, in her 30s, had a long-term partner in his 50s with adult kids from a previous marriage. Cousin and him had been together for years and had a family but wanted to wait with marriage until their kids were a bit older so they could share in the happy day. Waiting with marriage until the kids are older and have a family celebration has become quite common in our country, but in our jurisdiction there are several forms of civil partnership they could have chosen instead to get their affairs in order. But they didn't think that was necessary. Well, he had a heart attack and died and he left the house that he had owned for years before they met to his adult kids and his life insurance too. And I think his pension went to his ex. Legally you can't disinherit your kids so they went to court and his young children got a share too, but the adult kids owned most of it so they forced a sale. That sale generated some funds but it belongs to the kids, mum can't use it to buy a new home. They've all lived with her parents ever since.

sixwings

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2222 on: September 14, 2020, 09:29:01 AM »
My BIL wanted $750-$800/hour in executor fees for my parents estate. He thought fees of 120K for about 150 hours of work was appropriate. Said that if we didn't agree he would not allow our sister to see us. We obviously didn't agree to that and it created quite a division between him and my sister and my other siblings and I. Turns out he had a gambling addiction, gambled away my sisters portion of the estate and wanted more. She has since left him. It was a really sad way to treat our parents legacy as they had lived a very MMM lifestyle to retire early and leave an estate for my siblings.

Lesson for me from that was make sure that executor fees are agreed to up front. We trusted that he was doing it for our parents and the family, we all considered him a close friend until this happened.

Sibley

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2223 on: September 14, 2020, 11:35:31 AM »
My BIL wanted $750-$800/hour in executor fees for my parents estate. He thought fees of 120K for about 150 hours of work was appropriate. Said that if we didn't agree he would not allow our sister to see us. We obviously didn't agree to that and it created quite a division between him and my sister and my other siblings and I. Turns out he had a gambling addiction, gambled away my sisters portion of the estate and wanted more. She has since left him. It was a really sad way to treat our parents legacy as they had lived a very MMM lifestyle to retire early and leave an estate for my siblings.

Lesson for me from that was make sure that executor fees are agreed to up front. We trusted that he was doing it for our parents and the family, we all considered him a close friend until this happened.

That so wrong, all of it. Overcharging to that extent on fees? Tying compliance to access to your family member? I hope he gets some help, because he's going to be awfully miserable driving everyone away with that behavior. Addiction really is the pits.

Sugaree

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2224 on: September 14, 2020, 01:18:20 PM »
Indeed this whole story has some odd details: name not on bank account, sister's name on house title instead of husband's.

It seems like there were ways this couple had opted to not join their legal affairs, which may well have been motivated by earlier family drama.

This is fairly likely.  They had been married for 10+ years, but it had always been a tenuous relationship and quite frankly I think they were on the verge of separating again.  The house is deeded like it is because the sister bought it, with the intention that they would eventually buy it from her. 

Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2225 on: September 14, 2020, 01:37:44 PM »
My BIL wanted $750-$800/hour in executor fees for my parents estate. He thought fees of 120K for about 150 hours of work was appropriate. Said that if we didn't agree he would not allow our sister to see us. We obviously didn't agree to that and it created quite a division between him and my sister and my other siblings and I. Turns out he had a gambling addiction, gambled away my sisters portion of the estate and wanted more. She has since left him. It was a really sad way to treat our parents legacy as they had lived a very MMM lifestyle to retire early and leave an estate for my siblings.

Lesson for me from that was make sure that executor fees are agreed to up front. We trusted that he was doing it for our parents and the family, we all considered him a close friend until this happened.

That so wrong, all of it. Overcharging to that extent on fees? Tying compliance to access to your family member? I hope he gets some help, because he's going to be awfully miserable driving everyone away with that behavior. Addiction really is the pits.
My brother and I were co-executors. We took no fees. My parent's will and trust were "thinly written" and for a while it looked like there was going to be a huge tax haircut. Bro and I did backflips, along with judicious use of professional help, to make sure that didn't happen. As a result, everyone got approximately twice as much as we were initially led to believe. Through it all, BlackSheepSister complained vehemently that we were taking too long. The estate is finally settled and her share is all gone. Zero gratitude from her. Did someone mention gambling?

sixwings

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2226 on: September 14, 2020, 04:24:32 PM »
My BIL wanted $750-$800/hour in executor fees for my parents estate. He thought fees of 120K for about 150 hours of work was appropriate. Said that if we didn't agree he would not allow our sister to see us. We obviously didn't agree to that and it created quite a division between him and my sister and my other siblings and I. Turns out he had a gambling addiction, gambled away my sisters portion of the estate and wanted more. She has since left him. It was a really sad way to treat our parents legacy as they had lived a very MMM lifestyle to retire early and leave an estate for my siblings.

Lesson for me from that was make sure that executor fees are agreed to up front. We trusted that he was doing it for our parents and the family, we all considered him a close friend until this happened.

That so wrong, all of it. Overcharging to that extent on fees? Tying compliance to access to your family member? I hope he gets some help, because he's going to be awfully miserable driving everyone away with that behavior. Addiction really is the pits.
My brother and I were co-executors. We took no fees. My parent's will and trust were "thinly written" and for a while it looked like there was going to be a huge tax haircut. Bro and I did backflips, along with judicious use of professional help, to make sure that didn't happen. As a result, everyone got approximately twice as much as we were initially led to believe. Through it all, BlackSheepSister complained vehemently that we were taking too long. The estate is finally settled and her share is all gone. Zero gratitude from her. Did someone mention gambling?

We weren't opposed to fees, it can be a lot of work and can be quite stressful, but the fee needed to reasonable... like $30/hour or something. We could have hired the best wills and estates lawyer in the country to be the executor for cheaper than he was proposing. It was brutal. He was very emotionally abusive to my sister (we never knew or saw) and it's good she got away. She was completely hands off on the finances, didn't even know the passwords to the bank accounts and he had convinced her it was too complicated for her to understand anyway. We didn't know any of this until afterwards. The conversation about fees is what made us ask what the heck was happening because prior to that we never had any indication there was an issue. On the outside everything seemed great with them. She lost a big chunk of her inheritance due to his gambling addiction and emotional abuse.

cincystache

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2227 on: September 14, 2020, 07:17:14 PM »
20 years ago Grandpa passed away and left everything to 80 year old Grandma (probably a million or so).

Grandma didn't know how to manage money so she co-mingled her funds somehow with her brother to invest. Her brother re-married and then died about 3 years later. He got swindled by his new wife's lawyer/financial advisor and made a new will on his deathbed and left everything to the new much younger wife and step-kids... including my grandma's money since they had joint accounts of some sort (don't know all the details)

My dad didn't know about the situation until after his uncle (her brother) passed away. They had a court battle and fought it pretty hard but the judge ruled in favor of the wife. My grandma was left with nothing but social security and a paid off house for the last 5 years of her life. She was still happy and thankful for what she had until the very end which is probably the best lesson of all, money is just a tool, not the purpose of life.

Other Lessons:
1. Lawyers/financial advisors can be snakes (not all, but shitty ones are out there and they don't announce themselves).
2. Manage your own damn money
3. Talk more openly about money with your trusted family members (had my dad known what was going on he would have been able to help her avoid the situation)
4. If you want to give money to family members or causes you care about, you should consider doing it BEFORE you die.. stuff can get messy once you're gone. My grandpa is probably rolling in his grave knowing that all of the money he saved his entire life ended up in the hands of people he never met or cared about and they proceeded to spend it on vacation houses, new cars and other shit he didn't care about.
5. Don't rely on an inheritance, make your own money, be financially independent

This all happened when I was a kid and I didn't learn about it until much later but looked at through the lens of FI I learned a lot from it...

Psychstache

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2228 on: September 14, 2020, 08:35:37 PM »
20 years ago Grandpa passed away and left everything to 80 year old Grandma (probably a million or so).

Grandma didn't know how to manage money so she co-mingled her funds somehow with her brother to invest. Her brother re-married and then died about 3 years later. He got swindled by his new wife's lawyer/financial advisor and made a new will on his deathbed and left everything to the new much younger wife and step-kids... including my grandma's money since they had joint accounts of some sort (don't know all the details)

My dad didn't know about the situation until after his uncle (her brother) passed away. They had a court battle and fought it pretty hard but the judge ruled in favor of the wife. My grandma was left with nothing but social security and a paid off house for the last 5 years of her life. She was still happy and thankful for what she had until the very end which is probably the best lesson of all, money is just a tool, not the purpose of life.

Other Lessons:
1. Lawyers/financial advisors can be snakes (not all, but shitty ones are out there and they don't announce themselves).
2. Manage your own damn money
3. Talk more openly about money with your trusted family members (had my dad known what was going on he would have been able to help her avoid the situation)
4. If you want to give money to family members or causes you care about, you should consider doing it BEFORE you die.. stuff can get messy once you're gone. My grandpa is probably rolling in his grave knowing that all of the money he saved his entire life ended up in the hands of people he never met or cared about and they proceeded to spend it on vacation houses, new cars and other shit he didn't care about.
5. Don't rely on an inheritance, make your own money, be financially independent

This all happened when I was a kid and I didn't learn about it until much later but looked at through the lens of FI I learned a lot from it...

While this story obviously sucks, don't you think the grandma considered her brother to be a 'trusted family member'?

Villanelle

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2229 on: September 15, 2020, 12:28:27 PM »
20 years ago Grandpa passed away and left everything to 80 year old Grandma (probably a million or so).

Grandma didn't know how to manage money so she co-mingled her funds somehow with her brother to invest. Her brother re-married and then died about 3 years later. He got swindled by his new wife's lawyer/financial advisor and made a new will on his deathbed and left everything to the new much younger wife and step-kids... including my grandma's money since they had joint accounts of some sort (don't know all the details)

My dad didn't know about the situation until after his uncle (her brother) passed away. They had a court battle and fought it pretty hard but the judge ruled in favor of the wife. My grandma was left with nothing but social security and a paid off house for the last 5 years of her life. She was still happy and thankful for what she had until the very end which is probably the best lesson of all, money is just a tool, not the purpose of life.

Other Lessons:
1. Lawyers/financial advisors can be snakes (not all, but shitty ones are out there and they don't announce themselves).
2. Manage your own damn money
3. Talk more openly about money with your trusted family members (had my dad known what was going on he would have been able to help her avoid the situation)
4. If you want to give money to family members or causes you care about, you should consider doing it BEFORE you die.. stuff can get messy once you're gone. My grandpa is probably rolling in his grave knowing that all of the money he saved his entire life ended up in the hands of people he never met or cared about and they proceeded to spend it on vacation houses, new cars and other shit he didn't care about.
5. Don't rely on an inheritance, make your own money, be financially independent

This all happened when I was a kid and I didn't learn about it until much later but looked at through the lens of FI I learned a lot from it...

While this story obviously sucks, don't you think the grandma considered her brother to be a 'trusted family member'?

I assume that's partly why they said "family memberS", plural. 

Goldielocks

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2230 on: September 17, 2020, 01:35:33 PM »
My BIL wanted $750-$800/hour in executor fees for my parents estate. He thought fees of 120K for about 150 hours of work was appropriate. Said that if we didn't agree he would not allow our sister to see us. We obviously didn't agree to that and it created quite a division between him and my sister and my other siblings and I. Turns out he had a gambling addiction, gambled away my sisters portion of the estate and wanted more. She has since left him. It was a really sad way to treat our parents legacy as they had lived a very MMM lifestyle to retire early and leave an estate for my siblings.

Lesson for me from that was make sure that executor fees are agreed to up front. We trusted that he was doing it for our parents and the family, we all considered him a close friend until this happened.
Wow, here it is max 5% of the estate value overall,  (or 0.4% per year for on-going management), and often set to be less if the estate is fairly easy to handle / manage.   5% would likely involve a lot of paperwork and properties to arrange for sale.

Relatives typically charge much less, often $0 plus out of pocket expenses.

So, how did a son in law get to be the sole executor, anyway?  Wouldn't it have been your sister or you?
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 01:39:24 PM by Goldielocks »

Villanelle

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2231 on: September 17, 2020, 03:28:09 PM »
My BIL wanted $750-$800/hour in executor fees for my parents estate. He thought fees of 120K for about 150 hours of work was appropriate. Said that if we didn't agree he would not allow our sister to see us. We obviously didn't agree to that and it created quite a division between him and my sister and my other siblings and I. Turns out he had a gambling addiction, gambled away my sisters portion of the estate and wanted more. She has since left him. It was a really sad way to treat our parents legacy as they had lived a very MMM lifestyle to retire early and leave an estate for my siblings.

Lesson for me from that was make sure that executor fees are agreed to up front. We trusted that he was doing it for our parents and the family, we all considered him a close friend until this happened.

Wow, here it is max 5% of the estate value overall,  (or 0.4% per year for on-going management), and often set to be less if the estate is fairly easy to handle / manage.   5% would likely involve a lot of paperwork and properties to arrange for sale.

Relatives typically charge much less, often $0 plus out of pocket expenses.

So, how did a son in law get to be the sole executor, anyway?  Wouldn't it have been your sister or you?

I think I recall my parents saying their will specifies 1% for the executor, which will be my sister.  She's more than welcome to that extra little bit.  I consider myself with winner (when the time comes, hopefully years from now) for not having to do it.

I do agree that the BIL was an odd choice, and I wondered the same thing, especially given that he turned out to be such a greedy ass, although it sounds like that was mostly hidden until it was too late.

But my sister (she and I are the only children) and her husband named my husband (so her BIL) as  their executor.  Each of them has one sibling and it sounds like the disagreed over selecting which one it should be.  It seems they thought picking neither was more equitable.  (Whether that means just equitable between the two of them, or meant "more likely to be and seem fair when executing the responsibility", was unclear and I didn't ask.)  It seems somewhat odd to me because it's not like he's in impartial third party--he's solidly team Villanelle in life so it's not like there will actually be no *appearance* of possible favoritism.  But he was fine doing it, and it seemed to solve their problem, and given that he's perhaps the most honest and ethical person I've known I'm sure he'd be fair if for some reason I pushed him not to be (which of course I wouldn't do).  But perhaps something like that was at play?  Or maybe Six's BIL was almost as clever as he was greedy and made a play for executor duties, believing he could profit off it.  Yuck. 

Chris Pascale

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2232 on: September 17, 2020, 04:47:40 PM »
My BIL wanted $750-$800/hour in executor fees for my parents estate. He thought fees of 120K for about 150 hours of work was appropriate. Said that if we didn't agree he would not allow our sister to see us. We obviously didn't agree to that and it created quite a division between him and my sister and my other siblings and I. Turns out he had a gambling addiction, gambled away my sisters portion of the estate and wanted more. She has since left him. It was a really sad way to treat our parents legacy as they had lived a very MMM lifestyle to retire early and leave an estate for my siblings.

Lesson for me from that was make sure that executor fees are agreed to up front. We trusted that he was doing it for our parents and the family, we all considered him a close friend until this happened.

Very gross.

My estate instructions (specifically in care of the kids until the youngest is 25) state that the executor gets $5,000 a year for the first 5 years, then $7500 for the next 5 years, and $10,000 for the next 5 years. It also states that year 1 is paid in full, even if it starts on 12/31, and so year 2 would be paid the very next day, and that the last year is paid in full, even though the youngest will turn 25 in mid-year.

Funds are held in a Vanguard fund as proposed in the JL Collins Series.

Taxes are to be filed by my current CPA.

Monthly payments of XXXX paid to guardian, extra XXXX for vacation, visiting specific relatives is allowed and those relatives are to be given XXXX for the visit. College funds are for in-state tuition only, so if they go to private school, they must find the other money. If child does not go to college but works for 4 years, then equivalent funds will be paid over 4 years (same for if they get full scholarships or use the GI Bill).

There's more, but the main thing is no ambiguity, no confusion.

scottish

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2233 on: September 17, 2020, 08:01:13 PM »
My BIL wanted $750-$800/hour in executor fees for my parents estate. He thought fees of 120K for about 150 hours of work was appropriate. Said that if we didn't agree he would not allow our sister to see us. We obviously didn't agree to that and it created quite a division between him and my sister and my other siblings and I. Turns out he had a gambling addiction, gambled away my sisters portion of the estate and wanted more. She has since left him. It was a really sad way to treat our parents legacy as they had lived a very MMM lifestyle to retire early and leave an estate for my siblings.

Lesson for me from that was make sure that executor fees are agreed to up front. We trusted that he was doing it for our parents and the family, we all considered him a close friend until this happened.

Very gross.

My estate instructions (specifically in care of the kids until the youngest is 25) state that the executor gets $5,000 a year for the first 5 years, then $7500 for the next 5 years, and $10,000 for the next 5 years. It also states that year 1 is paid in full, even if it starts on 12/31, and so year 2 would be paid the very next day, and that the last year is paid in full, even though the youngest will turn 25 in mid-year.

Funds are held in a Vanguard fund as proposed in the JL Collins Series.

Taxes are to be filed by my current CPA.

Monthly payments of XXXX paid to guardian, extra XXXX for vacation, visiting specific relatives is allowed and those relatives are to be given XXXX for the visit. College funds are for in-state tuition only, so if they go to private school, they must find the other money. If child does not go to college but works for 4 years, then equivalent funds will be paid over 4 years (same for if they get full scholarships or use the GI Bill).

There's more, but the main thing is no ambiguity, no confusion.

Wow.    Where did you find someone who would agree to a 15 year commitment like that?   

I'm executor for my mother and joint for my dad.    They had a substantial estate, but we intend to have it wound up by 3 years.      Of course, there are no children to look after...

Imma

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2234 on: September 18, 2020, 01:55:19 AM »
My BIL wanted $750-$800/hour in executor fees for my parents estate. He thought fees of 120K for about 150 hours of work was appropriate. Said that if we didn't agree he would not allow our sister to see us. We obviously didn't agree to that and it created quite a division between him and my sister and my other siblings and I. Turns out he had a gambling addiction, gambled away my sisters portion of the estate and wanted more. She has since left him. It was a really sad way to treat our parents legacy as they had lived a very MMM lifestyle to retire early and leave an estate for my siblings.

Lesson for me from that was make sure that executor fees are agreed to up front. We trusted that he was doing it for our parents and the family, we all considered him a close friend until this happened.

Very gross.

My estate instructions (specifically in care of the kids until the youngest is 25) state that the executor gets $5,000 a year for the first 5 years, then $7500 for the next 5 years, and $10,000 for the next 5 years. It also states that year 1 is paid in full, even if it starts on 12/31, and so year 2 would be paid the very next day, and that the last year is paid in full, even though the youngest will turn 25 in mid-year.

Funds are held in a Vanguard fund as proposed in the JL Collins Series.

Taxes are to be filed by my current CPA.

Monthly payments of XXXX paid to guardian, extra XXXX for vacation, visiting specific relatives is allowed and those relatives are to be given XXXX for the visit. College funds are for in-state tuition only, so if they go to private school, they must find the other money. If child does not go to college but works for 4 years, then equivalent funds will be paid over 4 years (same for if they get full scholarships or use the GI Bill).

There's more, but the main thing is no ambiguity, no confusion.

Wow.    Where did you find someone who would agree to a 15 year commitment like that?   

I'm executor for my mother and joint for my dad.    They had a substantial estate, but we intend to have it wound up by 3 years.      Of course, there are no children to look after...

I guess that comes with the territory if you have underage children. My parent had a similar will when we were underage, the executor was going to be my uncle. My parent made the very wise decision to appoint different people as guardian and as executor. The executor's only job was to look after the money and the guardian only had to look after the kids and got a set amount of money. Thankfully it was never necessary but I'm glad they thought things through.

Goldielocks

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2235 on: September 18, 2020, 09:33:50 PM »
My BIL wanted $750-$800/hour in executor fees for my parents estate. He thought fees of 120K for about 150 hours of work was appropriate. Said that if we didn't agree he would not allow our sister to see us. We obviously didn't agree to that and it created quite a division between him and my sister and my other siblings and I. Turns out he had a gambling addiction, gambled away my sisters portion of the estate and wanted more. She has since left him. It was a really sad way to treat our parents legacy as they had lived a very MMM lifestyle to retire early and leave an estate for my siblings.

Lesson for me from that was make sure that executor fees are agreed to up front. We trusted that he was doing it for our parents and the family, we all considered him a close friend until this happened.

Wow, here it is max 5% of the estate value overall,  (or 0.4% per year for on-going management), and often set to be less if the estate is fairly easy to handle / manage.   5% would likely involve a lot of paperwork and properties to arrange for sale.

Relatives typically charge much less, often $0 plus out of pocket expenses.

So, how did a son in law get to be the sole executor, anyway?  Wouldn't it have been your sister or you?

I think I recall my parents saying their will specifies 1% for the executor, which will be my sister.  She's more than welcome to that extra little bit.  I consider myself with winner (when the time comes, hopefully years from now) for not having to do it.

I do agree that the BIL was an odd choice, and I wondered the same thing, especially given that he turned out to be such a greedy ass, although it sounds like that was mostly hidden until it was too late.

But my sister (she and I are the only children) and her husband named my husband (so her BIL) as  their executor.  Each of them has one sibling and it sounds like the disagreed over selecting which one it should be.  It seems they thought picking neither was more equitable.  (Whether that means just equitable between the two of them, or meant "more likely to be and seem fair when executing the responsibility", was unclear and I didn't ask.)  It seems somewhat odd to me because it's not like he's in impartial third party--he's solidly team Villanelle in life so it's not like there will actually be no *appearance* of possible favoritism.  But he was fine doing it, and it seemed to solve their problem, and given that he's perhaps the most honest and ethical person I've known I'm sure he'd be fair if for some reason I pushed him not to be (which of course I wouldn't do).  But perhaps something like that was at play?  Or maybe Six's BIL was almost as clever as he was greedy and made a play for executor duties, believing he could profit off it.  Yuck.
More likely it was above board when the will was written, and the gambling took over fast, fairly recently.

TomTX

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2236 on: September 19, 2020, 07:17:56 AM »
Thank goodness my parents have decided to declutter and sell the house. That was shaping up to be the biggest mess for an estate. Accounts already have beneficiaries to bypass probate. There are unopened boxes in the basement from my Dad's random stuff dating back from the 1970s - ones he packed up for a move 30 years ago, and never opened again.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2237 on: September 20, 2020, 11:15:11 AM »
Grandma didn't know how to manage money so she co-mingled her funds somehow with her brother to invest. Her brother re-married and then died about 3 years later. He got swindled by his new wife's lawyer/financial advisor and made a new will on his deathbed and left everything to the new much younger wife and step-kids... including my grandma's money since they had joint accounts of some sort (don't know all the details)

Other Lessons:
1. Lawyers/financial advisors can be snakes (not all, but shitty ones are out there and they don't announce themselves).

4. If you want to give money to family members or causes you care about, you should consider doing it BEFORE you die.. stuff can get messy once you're gone. My grandpa is probably rolling in his grave knowing that all of the money he saved his entire life ended up in the hands of people he never met or cared about and they proceeded to spend it on vacation houses, new cars and other shit he didn't care about.

One thing I've learned about lawyers, is that their job is not to be "fair", it is to represent the interests of the person who hires them.  Brother's new wife's lawyer may have done his job perfectly, which was to draft and get executed a new will that the brother legitimately signed for his new wife, deathbed or not.  The lawyer may in fact have had no idea that Grandma had passed money to the brother in joint accounts, and who knows if the brother thought to bring it up at that point.  I would say new wife was not very fair if money was not returned on being shown it was originally Grandma's, though. 

Something I did learn from some experiences like that is when helping elderly relatives manage their financial affairs, regardless of the reason for doing it, be very careful with how accounts are set up.  There can be good reasons for setting up joint accounts, but a better idea may be having power of attorney on an account of theirs.  The latter is more of a pain, but prevents a lot of problems, such as IRS or lawsuit attachment of a jointly held account. 

I can provide a story regarding your item 4, though.  My FIL's half brother, H., was a frugal investor his whole life, and had saved close to $1M by the time he passed away.  He left almost all of it to his long time GF, they had been together 20 years or so.  Not a problem so far, he had no children or other closer relatives than my FIL.  She was around 90 when he passed away, and a nice person but not very financially competent, so her family was managing her affairs.  My FIL was executor, and when I was helping my FIL clear out H's apartment we came across several rather aggressive letters over the years from said family begging for money for one self inflicted disaster or another, apparently they knew H had a fair amount of money saved, and were of the mindset that if he had money, and they didn't, it was his obligation to provide them some so they could buy the things they wanted.  I mean, why would anyone have money sitting around idle? 

They were bugging my FIL for disbursements from the estate within a month, and wanted all the investments sold and turned into cash as fast as possible.  As soon as they got it, the long time GF, their parent, was put into assisted living (to be fair, she needed it at that point) and I'm sure they spent the money H had spent a lifetime accumulating within a couple of years.  Its just like winning the lottery. . .

Chris Pascale

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2238 on: September 22, 2020, 09:25:09 AM »
My BIL wanted $750-$800/hour in executor fees for my parents estate. He thought fees of 120K for about 150 hours of work was appropriate. Said that if we didn't agree he would not allow our sister to see us. We obviously didn't agree to that and it created quite a division between him and my sister and my other siblings and I. Turns out he had a gambling addiction, gambled away my sisters portion of the estate and wanted more. She has since left him. It was a really sad way to treat our parents legacy as they had lived a very MMM lifestyle to retire early and leave an estate for my siblings.

Lesson for me from that was make sure that executor fees are agreed to up front. We trusted that he was doing it for our parents and the family, we all considered him a close friend until this happened.

Very gross.

My estate instructions (specifically in care of the kids until the youngest is 25) state that the executor gets $5,000 a year for the first 5 years, then $7500 for the next 5 years, and $10,000 for the next 5 years. It also states that year 1 is paid in full, even if it starts on 12/31, and so year 2 would be paid the very next day, and that the last year is paid in full, even though the youngest will turn 25 in mid-year.

Funds are held in a Vanguard fund as proposed in the JL Collins Series.

Taxes are to be filed by my current CPA.

Monthly payments of XXXX paid to guardian, extra XXXX for vacation, visiting specific relatives is allowed and those relatives are to be given XXXX for the visit. College funds are for in-state tuition only, so if they go to private school, they must find the other money. If child does not go to college but works for 4 years, then equivalent funds will be paid over 4 years (same for if they get full scholarships or use the GI Bill).

There's more, but the main thing is no ambiguity, no confusion.

Wow.    Where did you find someone who would agree to a 15 year commitment like that?   

I'm executor for my mother and joint for my dad.    They had a substantial estate, but we intend to have it wound up by 3 years.      Of course, there are no children to look after...

For guardianship, the first person I asked realized he couldn't after initially saying yes. The next couple thoughtlessly said yes and then when I sent them the estate instructions, they were very surprised that there was so much to consider that had already been thought of ahead of time. They divorced and now I'm on to my 3rd choice.

This is over the course of about 10 years now, and the odds of me dying before these kids reach 25 is getting slimmer by the day.

For the estate management, a very old friend who does high-level admin work agreed to it. If he is unable, I'll ask a friend who has also acted as my attorney.

Along the way, though, getting people to initially read the estate instructions was a bit of a challenge. One guardian said, 'I didn't think it mattered,' to which I had to explain it was the very instructions they'd be held to, to care for 4 kids, and if they object to anything, they need to say so, because if I'm dead, it's set.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2239 on: September 22, 2020, 09:47:05 AM »
My BIL wanted $750-$800/hour in executor fees for my parents estate. He thought fees of 120K for about 150 hours of work was appropriate. Said that if we didn't agree he would not allow our sister to see us. We obviously didn't agree to that and it created quite a division between him and my sister and my other siblings and I. Turns out he had a gambling addiction, gambled away my sisters portion of the estate and wanted more. She has since left him. It was a really sad way to treat our parents legacy as they had lived a very MMM lifestyle to retire early and leave an estate for my siblings.

Lesson for me from that was make sure that executor fees are agreed to up front. We trusted that he was doing it for our parents and the family, we all considered him a close friend until this happened.

Very gross.

My estate instructions (specifically in care of the kids until the youngest is 25) state that the executor gets $5,000 a year for the first 5 years, then $7500 for the next 5 years, and $10,000 for the next 5 years. It also states that year 1 is paid in full, even if it starts on 12/31, and so year 2 would be paid the very next day, and that the last year is paid in full, even though the youngest will turn 25 in mid-year.

Funds are held in a Vanguard fund as proposed in the JL Collins Series.

Taxes are to be filed by my current CPA.

Monthly payments of XXXX paid to guardian, extra XXXX for vacation, visiting specific relatives is allowed and those relatives are to be given XXXX for the visit. College funds are for in-state tuition only, so if they go to private school, they must find the other money. If child does not go to college but works for 4 years, then equivalent funds will be paid over 4 years (same for if they get full scholarships or use the GI Bill).

There's more, but the main thing is no ambiguity, no confusion.

Wow.    Where did you find someone who would agree to a 15 year commitment like that?   

I'm executor for my mother and joint for my dad.    They had a substantial estate, but we intend to have it wound up by 3 years.      Of course, there are no children to look after...

For guardianship, the first person I asked realized he couldn't after initially saying yes. The next couple thoughtlessly said yes and then when I sent them the estate instructions, they were very surprised that there was so much to consider that had already been thought of ahead of time. They divorced and now I'm on to my 3rd choice.

This is over the course of about 10 years now, and the odds of me dying before these kids reach 25 is getting slimmer by the day.

For the estate management, a very old friend who does high-level admin work agreed to it. If he is unable, I'll ask a friend who has also acted as my attorney.

Along the way, though, getting people to initially read the estate instructions was a bit of a challenge. One guardian said, 'I didn't think it mattered,' to which I had to explain it was the very instructions they'd be held to, to care for 4 kids, and if they object to anything, they need to say so, because if I'm dead, it's set.

It would not have occurred to me to spell things out in so much detail! Now, my kids' father and I are divorced, so the chances of it being an issue are vanishingly small.

And, of course - I would have 0 control over how he would raise them if I died. More sadly (I mean, I am dead in this scenario so don't care), neither would their stepfather, who is their primary caregiver. My ex is only sort of a dick but he's fairly self-absorbed.

My mom told me she's updating her estate plan. My brother died this year and left behind a nine-year-old daughter. My sister and I will jointly administer any funds she might need for college, etc. if my parents have died. My sister will be in charge of evaluating any money requests from my children - and vice versa!

Apparently the estate lawyer suggested it and it's quite common. I think it makes sense. My sister and I are very close but our values are not identical and this way any requests for money from the trust have to pass a sniff test from both of us, essentially.

UpNAtom

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2240 on: September 22, 2020, 12:59:28 PM »
Thank goodness my parents have decided to declutter and sell the house. That was shaping up to be the biggest mess for an estate. Accounts already have beneficiaries to bypass probate. There are unopened boxes in the basement from my Dad's random stuff dating back from the 1970s - ones he packed up for a move 30 years ago, and never opened again.

Had the talk with my parents where they basically said: we don't have much but you can have the house and everything in it.

I had to sadly inform them that I do not live anywhere near them (sadly will sell the house) and that since I would drive up, take whatever made sense and put it in the car (keepsakes and items they specifically tell me where they are), but absolutely everything else would be auctioned/sold off. 

I have no use for 2 extra vehicles, 2 others that "will get repaired at some point", boxes that have not been unpacked in over 20 years (but have moved multiple times), and every other knickknack.  This is a 3 story house with a separate 3 bay garage (the garage can't fit either of the working vehicles...nor at least one of the non-functional ones) - the house was purchased AFTER us kids were out.

I did tell them that I would be too upset at their loss to want to even begin trying to deal with going through everything and planning a funeral... and that any money that was left over after debts would go towards working less and the grandchild(ren).

scottish

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2241 on: September 22, 2020, 03:28:29 PM »
My BIL wanted $750-$800/hour in executor fees for my parents estate. He thought fees of 120K for about 150 hours of work was appropriate. Said that if we didn't agree he would not allow our sister to see us. We obviously didn't agree to that and it created quite a division between him and my sister and my other siblings and I. Turns out he had a gambling addiction, gambled away my sisters portion of the estate and wanted more. She has since left him. It was a really sad way to treat our parents legacy as they had lived a very MMM lifestyle to retire early and leave an estate for my siblings.

Lesson for me from that was make sure that executor fees are agreed to up front. We trusted that he was doing it for our parents and the family, we all considered him a close friend until this happened.

Very gross.

My estate instructions (specifically in care of the kids until the youngest is 25) state that the executor gets $5,000 a year for the first 5 years, then $7500 for the next 5 years, and $10,000 for the next 5 years. It also states that year 1 is paid in full, even if it starts on 12/31, and so year 2 would be paid the very next day, and that the last year is paid in full, even though the youngest will turn 25 in mid-year.

Funds are held in a Vanguard fund as proposed in the JL Collins Series.

Taxes are to be filed by my current CPA.

Monthly payments of XXXX paid to guardian, extra XXXX for vacation, visiting specific relatives is allowed and those relatives are to be given XXXX for the visit. College funds are for in-state tuition only, so if they go to private school, they must find the other money. If child does not go to college but works for 4 years, then equivalent funds will be paid over 4 years (same for if they get full scholarships or use the GI Bill).

There's more, but the main thing is no ambiguity, no confusion.

Wow.    Where did you find someone who would agree to a 15 year commitment like that?   

I'm executor for my mother and joint for my dad.    They had a substantial estate, but we intend to have it wound up by 3 years.      Of course, there are no children to look after...

For guardianship, the first person I asked realized he couldn't after initially saying yes. The next couple thoughtlessly said yes and then when I sent them the estate instructions, they were very surprised that there was so much to consider that had already been thought of ahead of time. They divorced and now I'm on to my 3rd choice.

This is over the course of about 10 years now, and the odds of me dying before these kids reach 25 is getting slimmer by the day.

For the estate management, a very old friend who does high-level admin work agreed to it. If he is unable, I'll ask a friend who has also acted as my attorney.

Along the way, though, getting people to initially read the estate instructions was a bit of a challenge. One guardian said, 'I didn't think it mattered,' to which I had to explain it was the very instructions they'd be held to, to care for 4 kids, and if they object to anything, they need to say so, because if I'm dead, it's set.

That's the thing.   If you get a family member or close friend to be trustee, then they're bound by the terms of the trust and they have a civil liability to the beneficiaries if they fail to meet those terms.   If you pay a professional, they take a pretty big piece of the action.


Just Joe

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2242 on: October 09, 2020, 09:14:45 AM »
Back in 2011, a work acquaintance got fired.  A few weeks later, I messaged her on FB to see how she was doing.  Little did I know what sort of drama this simple act of compassion would bring. ...

This is so juicy that it almost needs its own ongoing thread. Wow. Just wow. You went above and beyond in multiple ways. Glad that you're not jumping on that sinking ship. Yikes.

Spending through $300K in a couple of years. OUCH!

I had visions how easy it would be to have a $5K car purchased with cash, a small tidy cottage owned outright, and a healthy investment account accruing interest.

saguaro

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2243 on: October 12, 2020, 10:27:43 AM »
I had to sadly inform them that I do not live anywhere near them (sadly will sell the house) and that since I would drive up, take whatever made sense and put it in the car (keepsakes and items they specifically tell me where they are), but absolutely everything else would be auctioned/sold off. 

I have no use for 2 extra vehicles, 2 others that "will get repaired at some point", boxes that have not been unpacked in over 20 years (but have moved multiple times), and every other knickknack.  This is a 3 story house with a separate 3 bay garage (the garage can't fit either of the working vehicles...nor at least one of the non-functional ones) - the house was purchased AFTER us kids were out.

To my parents' credit they did try to declutter and got some pretty large items out such as the old upright piano, camper trailer, and old VW Super Beetle, however as they got older they pretty much abandoned the effort.    But back during that time, my mother told me of how she was nagging Dad to "get rid of things because we can't leave this all for the kids".    I remember advising her to keep doing that because honestly (and I said this very kindly, offering to help but was declined) none of us would be able to take all of this stuff on and we would probably sell or auction it off. 

Capsu78

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2244 on: October 12, 2020, 03:12:30 PM »
DW mom died in 2008.  Last week, we received a box from her sister containing the last of her parents remaining items.  I was initially "irritated" as we decluttered a couple years back when we moved.   But as I looked at the stuff, I realized this was the stuff her mom put the highest "love" priority on.  A couple of letters from her husband while he was "on government business" kicking the Hun's ass (his words!).  A set of books from the 1920's and 30's that her Mom had been given and used in her first classroom as a young teacher. 
Some strange stuff like the obituary for Bing Crosby in 1977 to which I said "Why?"... Turns out my wife's dad got to see Bing entertain the troops in October of 1944, about 8 weeks before living through the Battle of the Bulge.   His 3 day pass in July 1943 which he used to get married to my wifes mom before he shipped off to Italy, then England, France, Belgium and crossing the Rhine.
Anyway, the items in the box "bring us joy" as the little Japanese declutter girl says, so probably won't be pitching much of this stuff...Just need to find a grandkid to develop an interest in the family history.
Moral of story????  2008-2020 and we have finally finished the process of decluttering the deceased parents stuff.

Just Joe

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2245 on: October 14, 2020, 02:21:32 PM »
DW's parents want help cleaning out their storage room. Boxes and boxes of knick-knacks mostly. Great!

I offered several years back to get it done but that meant the inlaws going away for a few hours, me loading it up and hauling it to Goodwill - not sorting it.  I got a bit of evil eye for it. ;)

Yeah, it needs a little sorting for safety and privacy. They want to do it now - during a pandemic - and they are in the high risk categories in a rising case state.
DW and I are both working in public facing jobs. Not feeling like this is a safe time for them? I think they mostly want a visit. As do my parents.

The holidays are going to be hard this year for everyone.

frugalecon

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2246 on: October 14, 2020, 04:10:53 PM »
Reading this thread, I really worry about the mess when my FIL passes. He is late 80s, willfully intestate ("When I die, it's going to be a big mess for all of you, and you will just have to deal with it."), a large home property with multiple garages and storage buildings filled to the rafters with junk, a house that has 30 years of deferred maintenance, a vacant apartment building that could have gone up in a fire that, unfortunately, was doused before it was burned down, but which left it uninhabitable, and another house that SIL is living in, which FIL should deed to her, but hasn't. Someone is going to spend years dealing with the estate, which is in California. I wonder how much will be lost in the probate process.

Mighty Eyebrows

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2247 on: October 14, 2020, 08:25:49 PM »
I just want to say thank-you to everyone for sharing their stories. I started reading this thread a while back and was not sure what to expect, but I think it is highly therapeutic for anyone who has a somewhat unpredictable family. Almost every family has some craziness and seeing how others have dealt with it tends to take some of the pain out of the process. We all feel that our problems are unique and, while they are somewhat unique, many people have seen variations on the theme.

Unfortunately I cannot share my own stories in any detail, but just a few suggestions (mostly stated before):

1) Plan your estate and discuss it with your kids.

2) It is better to give with a warm hand...

3) Make sure your parents have planned well and if they haven't, prepare yourself as best you can.

4) Don't be afraid to cut off a crazy family member. Sanity is more important than blood.


Sibley

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2248 on: October 17, 2020, 05:08:15 PM »
Reading this thread, I really worry about the mess when my FIL passes. He is late 80s, willfully intestate ("When I die, it's going to be a big mess for all of you, and you will just have to deal with it."), a large home property with multiple garages and storage buildings filled to the rafters with junk, a house that has 30 years of deferred maintenance, a vacant apartment building that could have gone up in a fire that, unfortunately, was doused before it was burned down, but which left it uninhabitable, and another house that SIL is living in, which FIL should deed to her, but hasn't. Someone is going to spend years dealing with the estate, which is in California. I wonder how much will be lost in the probate process.

FYI, you can refuse to take responsibility.

TomTX

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2249 on: October 17, 2020, 06:49:19 PM »
Reading this thread, I really worry about the mess when my FIL passes. He is late 80s, willfully intestate ("When I die, it's going to be a big mess for all of you, and you will just have to deal with it."), a large home property with multiple garages and storage buildings filled to the rafters with junk, a house that has 30 years of deferred maintenance, a vacant apartment building that could have gone up in a fire that, unfortunately, was doused before it was burned down, but which left it uninhabitable, and another house that SIL is living in, which FIL should deed to her, but hasn't. Someone is going to spend years dealing with the estate, which is in California. I wonder how much will be lost in the probate process.

FYI, you can refuse to take responsibility.

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...this sounds like the 4th use case.