Author Topic: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.  (Read 590954 times)

BTDretire

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1550 on: January 16, 2019, 06:27:42 PM »
  Nobody suffered because Aunt Bea's special bread & butter pickle recipe was buried with her. 

 Aunt Bea's pickles were terrible, it's just that Andy and Barney couldn't bring themselves to tell her! :-)

Secretly Saving

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1551 on: January 22, 2019, 04:20:41 PM »
I'm seeing this division based on gender right now in my spouse's family.  Two boys will split an inheritance and their sister will be left out.  Truth is, she probably doesn't need the money, but neither do the boys, so for it to be divided by gender is both depressing and maddening and creating a rift between them all.  Not worth it!

talltexan

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1552 on: January 23, 2019, 06:57:49 AM »
Suppose you are one of two boys, and there's a sister who's been largely left out of the estate. If you take your half of the estate, and you give half of that ish to your sister, you still have 25% of the estate (a fair share would be 33%, so you have better than 3/4 of what a fair share would be), and you've demonstrated to your adult sister that you believe in fairness and equality. Seems like the kind of investment that could save the family.

Why wouldn't you do that? Taxes?

SwordGuy

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1553 on: January 23, 2019, 07:39:20 AM »
Suppose you are one of two boys, and there's a sister who's been largely left out of the estate. If you take your half of the estate, and you give half of that ish to your sister, you still have 25% of the estate (a fair share would be 33%, so you have better than 3/4 of what a fair share would be), and you've demonstrated to your adult sister that you believe in fairness and equality. Seems like the kind of investment that could save the family.

Why wouldn't you do that? Taxes?

I would do that.

My wife would do that for her brothers but not her sister.  (Not because of gender, but because of prior actions.)

I don't believe most people would do that.   They'll find whatever reason that would possibly justify keeping all the money for themselves and swallow it whole.

Hula Hoop

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1554 on: January 23, 2019, 09:26:30 AM »
I'm seeing this division based on gender right now in my spouse's family.  Two boys will split an inheritance and their sister will be left out.  Truth is, she probably doesn't need the money, but neither do the boys, so for it to be divided by gender is both depressing and maddening and creating a rift between them all.  Not worth it!

This is truly depressing.  I can't believe that this is happening in 2019.

wbranch

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1555 on: January 23, 2019, 12:07:14 PM »
I come from a farming background and have worked with a lot of different farmers from a professional standpoint as well. I do think it does make sense to have an uneven inheritance in situations where family keeps on farming it and there is an established plan in place. I saw multiple situations where the non-farming "kids" (loosely said since they were 50-60 yrs old) did not give a shit about the farm until prices started going up in the mid 2000s. Then all they saw were $$$'s and wanted their "fair share". In many cases it was sons inheriting, but there were also situations where it was daughters and their husbands that had taken over the farms. Rarely was their cash available to purchase the farm and inheriting the equity was the main compensation for years of low wages.

I do know of a couple situations where the farms were sold and split up equally and the kids farming got their equal chunk of cash. They were pissed in all cases that they lost "their" farm. In those cases I think it made sense to split up since there had been poor planning and nothing in place to keep the farm going. The kids farming did not have experience managing the farm. Just did what they were told for years without really learning anything about farming.

My brother purchased the family farm from my parents at a substantial discount and I would be PO'd if he sold and pocketed cash without splitting it with siblings. But at some point he will have earned it, not sure how long. Maybe another 5-10 years?

My wife's family farms in an area that has some of the highest farmland values in the country. They have said my wife's share of inheritance will be much lower than her brothers since she is not involved with the farm. It would be split equally if we moved to the area and were involved with the farm. Maybe crazy not to be more involved when were are talking mid to high 7 figures. But I guess the trade-off seems worthwhile to us. I do see some issues with this situation since my BIL and his wife do not plan to have kids and want to be retired in 20 years and move away from the area. There is a good chance my in-laws will still be alive another 20 years, so who knows what will happen. There are other potential issues here that will likely cause some drama and I know my wife will want me to be involved, so not a lot to look forward to. At least we are putting ourselves in a position with our personal finances where it will not matter.

My wife's grandpa died a few years ago in his 90s and split everything equally between 5 kids. 2 sons had their own farms and individual net worths already around $10M. One son had passed away and his son and daughter received 1/2 of his 1/5. The only one that complained about things being unfair was the dumbass grandson wondering if grandpa really only wanted him to get $2.5M. He was also asking about inheritance right after the funeral. Him and his wife had huge financial issues, filed bankruptcy a few years before and many other poor decisions. So I imagine they have done a pretty good job pissing a lot of it away, but most of it was land with good cash rents so it is probably better for them to just get the checks in the mail instead of sell and have a pile of cash. Most of the family does not talk to him any more so I have not heard any updates lately.

SwordGuy

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1556 on: January 23, 2019, 01:35:26 PM »
My grandparents on my mom's side had a family farm.   All the kids moved away and made their way in the world away from the farm.  While my grandparents were still alive, 2 of their 3 children (including my mom) kicked in money to purchase more farmland.

When my grandparents died, the original family farm was split equally 3 ways.   The additional farm land was split equally between the two children who had paid for it.

There was no drama because they are all good people with good heads on their shoulders.

My parents passed on and I inherited their 1/3 and 1/2 portions of the two farms.  Two corporations were set up to hold ownership of the land, so technically I inherited the equivalent proportions of those corporations.

My uncle and aunt are still alive and retain their shares.

I expect they'll pass on their shares to their children.  Each have 3 children.  I don't know any details because, frankly, it's none of my business.   Out of my six cousins, 4 won't rock the boat and cause problems for anyone else.   The other two, well, there's no telling.   Hopefully we'll be able to buy them out if they do.   I think the crop sharing arrangement we have in place is a better deal than the lump sum land price would be.

dramathrowaway

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1557 on: February 06, 2019, 09:52:23 PM »
Oh boy, a thread for me to vent on...

Here's my story (so far:)

Grandparents set up a custodial UTMA account for me when I was young, naming my mother the custodian. Custodial UTMA accounts are a unique kind of gift: the money is the beneficiary's property from the moment it's deposited in the account, and outside of a few exceptions, the money is turned over the the beneficiary at age 21. My grandfather originally intended for it to pay for my college expenses. (This was actually a poor decision, due to financial aid requirements.)

I found out about the account around age 16 or so, and started depositing my own money in it, as my mother was investing it (on my behalf) into CDs and mutual funds. I didn't have to put the money, there -- I could've kept it under my mattress as cash, or even spent it. But I wanted to save it, and was enamored by the idea of compound interest, and how my small art commissions would add up, over the years.

Here's where it turns shitty. My parents refused to use the money for my college, insisting they pay for my college expenses, themselves. Wanting the freedom to choose my own major (I wanted to be an electrical engineer, and my parents outright laughed at me, and insisted that women don't make good engineers. For the record, I had the grades for it, and was an honors student.) I even asked if I could only use the portion of the funds I'd deposited, myself, but they said no. After that, I tried applying for loans, scholarships, and financial assistance, wanting to pay my own way so there wouldn't be any strings attached. I got some scholarships, but not enough to cover all of my tuition. The custodial account (given that it is counted as my property, no matter that I'm unable to withdraw from it,) made me ineligible for financial aid, and the parents found & tore up the loan docs, harassing & belittling me for even trying. They were insistent, and I eventually capitulated. Looking back, I should've kept trying, but I was too afraid of what they might escalate to, next.

I've since speculated this was due to a possible tax break they'd get, giving me this gift (the tuition.) They considered the custodial money "theirs," and were looking for a way to save more money. I didn't mind cutting them a break, except for the part where they were blocking me from my dream career. Simultaneously, they complained to my grandparents that my college was incredibly expensive, and that I was too incompetent to get myself any scholarships (this was a lie,) which encouraged my grandparents to gift "me" more money -- my mother took the cash gift, and I assume it offset most of my college expenses. This is something of a habit for them, and my grandparents regularly gift them cash. It should be noted that my parents are quite wealthy (they outright own multiple rental properties, invest most of their income, and have little spending (they live off of a portion of the interest/rent), & have no debt.) They didn't need to dig into their savings to pay for my college.

Once I turned 21, my mother was supposed to sign the account over, ending custodianship. She refused, lying and claiming the account never existed. (I eventually spoke to the bank and confirmed the account existed.) I became suspicious, but decided to let it go, & accept the money I'd invested as lost, as they had paid for my college (no matter the overt sexist undertones.) I needed to focus on internships (and save my own money, this time in my own account.) As this went on, my mother strongly insisted on doing all my taxes, refusing to let me see my own tax documents. Again, I felt suspicious. She said she was doing me a favor, that taxes were "too difficult" for me at that age, etc. I was deeply skeptical of that claim, but was (again) bullied into silence when I started to investigate.

This year, I turned 26, and am living across the country from them. It seems unreasonable to have my mother do my taxes for me, due to unrelated quarrels (she dislikes that I have a girlfriend, and has claimed to have written me out of the will for being gay. She also said she plans to withhold my tax documents from me, and from the IRS, in order to get them to give me a 10% "penalty." I made sure to re-route all my mail to my new address, so this seems like an empty threat. I've also never expected to inherit most of their wealth, given that I knew how my mother would react to any girlfriends. I still don't know why she is demanding to do my taxes, though I'm beginning to suspect there are more accounts in my name I don't know about...)

A little before the girlfriend-blowout, I learned that the money hasn't been reinvested since 2011, and has been just sitting in the account, losing value. She's illegally refusing to sign it over, and the brokerage firm can't reinvest it with her as custodian (at least, as far as I understand it,) because she isn't legally (or otherwise) my guardian. The bank is in an awkward spot -- their official policy is that the custodian needs to sign over the account, but legally the custodian is required to do so when the beneficiary turns 21, unless the custodian can prove the beneficiary is mentally incompetent, or otherwise unfit. (That typically means: documented drug problems/alcoholism, problems with the law, mental illness or disability requiring adult guardianship. I have no such issues.) I asked her again about the account (this time with information from the bank,) and she told me it is actually a trust, and that I'm "never seeing a penny," and that she "can do whatever" she wants, with it.This was, again, before she even learned about the girlfriend. I called the bank, again, and they confirmed that the account is a custodial UTMA, not a trust, and that my mother was legally obligated to sign away custodianship when I turned 21.

Everyone I've told this story to has strongly advised me to get a lawyer, and I hesitated for months, hoping some reasonable solution could be reached. (For example, giving me a portion of the funds to invest in index funds, so that I could demonstrate that I'm a responsible investor, but every possible compromise was rejected.) The bank said that if I can get a court order, they'll happily turn it over. I also checked to make sure my mother hasn't drained the account, but it seems she hasn't. (A little after that, my mother discovered the girlfriend, and we had our largely-unrelated fight.)

I think I'd understand her reluctance if I'd been demonstrated to be bad with money, but you're talking to the person who has saved every penny since starting high school, who made an effort to learn about investing (my parents refused to teach me, and I worried I'd make poor, uninformed decisions about money if I didn't know anything about saving.) I've no arrests, no drug/alcohol problems, interned for two years while earning my Master's degree, do DIY projects, run my own side-business, and took to mustachian living early on. I don't have a car, bike everywhere, don't have a cable subscription, etc.

She refused to sign it over, even before learning I wasn't straight, so it can't only be that. Before, she said the money would be put aside for when I wanted to buy a house, but when I mentioned getting out of the renter's trap, and buying a house (combining my then-savings with the money in the custodial account,) she said I was far too young to be a homeowner (I was 25,) and that I'm... (she changed her argument with every conversation: ...too young, too lazy, need a husband before thinking about home-ownership, need to live with them because she's lonely, wouldn't mow my own grass because I'm afraid of dirt (I have my own garden, for chrissake,) ...and need to solve those issues first, before even thinking about home ownership. They were against me moving out, too, which ended up having to be done somewhat secretly, to avoid continued harassment.) It was exasperating. I could neither invest it, nor use it for what my mother claimed to want me to use it on. She couldn't invest it, either. It was just sitting there, and either investing it or buying a house would speed up FI by years.

I've tried talking to intermediaries that would sway her, (again, before she discovered the girlfriend.) My grandfather wants me to have the money, but my mother told him the money was all spent on my college, and that I'm trying to extort them. I don't think he really believes her, but she's the one managing his finances, now, so he isn't in much of a position to fight back. My father believes anything my mother tells him, (in this case, that I've "never worked a day" in my life, and that I'm "completely refusing to work." She once convinced my dad that I was running away to join a cult, of all things. Another time, she attempted to convince my dad that 16-year-old me was incapable of bathing myself. (What? I'm neither mentally nor physically impaired.) She also regularly accused my father of various ills, and attempted to convince a younger me that he was abusing her. (He wasn't.))

In the end, what decided my response was the need for an unexpected surgery & a coinciding unexpected period of unemployment, after she confronted me about the girlfriend. It wiped out most of my savings, and my (former-second, now-primary) stream of income is slowly growing, but not fast enough to cover expenses. That's largely why I'm back on this site -- a means of finding non-obvious ways to reduce spending.

So, I've gotten a lawyer. I dislike doing it, and it feels scummy. Growing up, I was taught I owed everything to them, and I mean EVERYTHING. My art talent/skill wasn't my own, neither were my grades, study habits, etc. They even said my friends only liked me due to my parents' large house! Looking back, this is abusive behavior. (And for the sake of brevity, I'm leaving out descriptions of the years of physical abuse, including chemical burns, and other assorted, but mostly unrelated, abuse.) They weren't parents trying to prepare their child for the world -- they wanted me under their control, and dependent on them (or another male authority figure.) Their primary goal when I attended college was for me to find a husband, for chrissake. I know this is going to wreck whatever remains of my relationship to my mother, and likely the rest of my biological family, too. But given the girlfriend-arguments and already strained relationship, I'm not sure that's much of a loss.

I could let the money go, but I've now been unemployed* for near 6 months, and my savings are drying up. It's getting spooky, and the medical problems aren't going away, either. At this pace, I'll either end up homeless** in four months, or will be couch surfing on friends' couches until I run out of social capital.

It's a shitty situation, all around. I wish I had a better idea.

And I suppose I'm writing this all down, here, because I still feel like an entitled, lazy, and spoiled child for suing them, and it's mostly my fault I'm in this position, in the first place. I decided I was secure enough to have a girlfriend. I could've played it safe, just let her go, not dated her, and I wouldn't be in this position. I could've also prioritized financial safety more than I did (and lived with my parents,) over moving out & getting away from them. I thought the amount of runway I'd given myself was enough, and I was wrong. I made the mess, and I should accept my consequences with grace, and stop complaining.

Expressing this viewpoint to my chosen family/friends has not gone over well, and as the situation worsens, my options are narrowing to homelessness, asking for more leniency or even help from my friends, or getting the court order. I'd rather be homeless than burden my friends, and I'd rather get the court order than be homeless.

I retained the lawyer this past week, and anytime I think about it, I still feel like I'm a bad person. It's hard to believe the people in my life who think I've been wronged, in part because they're so obviously on my side. But you, dear internet strangers, don't know me from Adam.


* unemployment: in my current profession (a specialized branch of data science), every job I've applied to wants either a PhD, or 5-8 years of industry experience. I've applied to everything even remotely related in the area, even if they require a PhD, but I only got two callbacks in six months. I'm taking up small projects, and am attempting to learn more in my field, in the hopes that demonstrating skill will be enough. I've also had professionals review my resume. I'm not making obvious errors: no tacky/sleazy social media posts, no disciplinary action, left on good terms with previous supervisors/professors, etc. The advice of those in my field has been to get a PhD. Without a full scholarship, though, that seems infeasible. (Also, some portion of financial aid depends on need, and I don't qualify.)

I've additionally tried minimum wage places, but they balk at the lack of service experience, and the Master's degree. I've been even going online looking for tutoring gigs, (I have previous experience as a tutor and TA,) but so far, no luck.

Lately, in addition to applying to as many jobs as I can, I've been pouring energy into my side business (illustration,) and am hoping more commissions will start coming in, but that's moving slowly. I'm not giving up by any means, though. There are likely options I just haven't thought of or tried, yet.

** homelessness: the rest of the family is about-as or more uncomfortable with LGBT folk, as my parents. I can't stay with them, or with my parents. (Pretending to go back in the closet would be met with disbelief and scorn -- I've already shamed the family, and that "shame" cannot be undone.) My roommates are letting me pay reduced rent until I get a job, in exchange for labor, but they'll eventually run out of patience, I expect. I don't believe I can get cheaper rent in my area, as it stands. My current expenses can be boiled down to rent (includes utilities,) groceries, and my (cheap google-fi) phone plan, and (rare) interactions with public transit.




« Last Edit: February 06, 2019, 10:04:41 PM by dramathrowaway »

SwordGuy

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1558 on: February 06, 2019, 10:21:39 PM »
@dramathrowaway ,   

I'll be very blunt.  Instruct your lawyer to show no mercy.  Your mother deserves whatever the law tosses at her, including jail.
You have no reason to be nice.   Your own mother is stealing from you.   If you end up getting her put into jail for it, feel good about yourself.

I see no reason to deal with her ever again once you get your money.   If your dad participated or condoned the abuse, ditto for him.   

It's not your fault that your mother is scum.

And you sound pretty amazing.  Yeah, you.

Goldielocks

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1559 on: February 06, 2019, 10:35:02 PM »
Okay, Dramathrowaway.... don't get a PhD, get an electrical engineering bachelor's degree.  Lots of jobs, espeically if you take a co-op program.   You just need to get your hands on the money to help pay for it.  Then you graduate with no student loans and lot of job prospects.

Actually, if you are good with illustration, look for a branch of engineering and design that requires hand drawing or modelling as part of your work.   I did plant layout and design and others I know did product desgin / mechanical design.  We needed lots of sketches to describe ideas.   Also lots of communication design work involved in putting together and writing large proposals to win projects, like winning the electrical control system for a new city transit system.   Heck, look into architecture, although the jobs may not be quite a plenitful at first.

Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1560 on: February 06, 2019, 10:40:00 PM »
You are not a bad person .
You are not a bad person.
You are not a bad person.

With a mother like that, it's a fucking miracle that you're a responsible, functioning, caring human being. She does not respect you now, so you literally have nothing to lose.

Nosy questions you don't have to answer: Is there anything weird in your birth story? Do you have siblings? Does she treat them the same way?
 
I hope you researched the shit out of that lawyer. You deserve everything they're going to get for you. BTW, contact the IRS and get copies of your tax returns asap. You dont need a lawyer to do that and I suspect there's some seriously incriminating evidence just waiting to be uncovered.

Finally, say nothing to your mother or any other family member. Not one word.

chrisgermany

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1561 on: February 06, 2019, 10:42:04 PM »
+1
And try to get copies of your tax documents from the IRS,maybe through your lawyer. This information belongs to you, it will make your case complete.
And it might put enough pressure on your parents to avoid court.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2019, 10:43:48 PM by chrisgermany »

dramathrowaway

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1562 on: February 06, 2019, 11:50:54 PM »

Nosy questions you don't have to answer: Is there anything weird in your birth story? Do you have siblings? Does she treat them the same way?
 
I hope you researched the shit out of that lawyer. You deserve everything they're going to get for you. BTW, contact the IRS and get copies of your tax returns asap. You dont need a lawyer to do that and I suspect there's some seriously incriminating evidence just waiting to be uncovered.

I'm an only child. I did used to wonder if I was really related to them, in part because they refused to give me my birth certificate/ssn (even to this day!) I did order myself new copies from the state about a year ago, though, and there were no irregularities. There could be something I'm missing, however my parents and I do bear a passing resemblance, even if we're nothing alike in temperament.

I did my own careful research on the relevant laws before I started calling lawyers, then used the local Bar Association's referral service, and then compared several lawyers (seeing if their responses to my questions were similar, etc) before finally deciding on my lawyer. I also relied on the advice of friends who knew/have experience with lawyers. The one I picked is no-nonsense, and a bit sharky. I figure if I'm doing this, I'd better win.

I didn't know I could get that information directly from the IRS, and now feel a bit foolish! It seems obvious in retrospect that they would send that to me. I was previously trying to get this information through the accountant that previously did my parents' (and my) taxes! He informed my parents, resulting in the aforementioned bullying. I will call first thing, tomorrow morning.

@SwordGuy I will probably never feel entirely good about this, but life will become much less stressful, once this is sorted. It's a matter of parts of me strongly agreeing with you, and other parts more sympathetic to them, disagreeing. I used to excuse far more of their behavior, telling myself that they grew up in abusive homes, themselves, and how they never learned any better. But. I mean. So did I. The longer I spend away from them, the more I see all the opportunities they had to change their behavior, and become better people. They chose to emulate their own abusers, even while acknowledging how painful their own experiences were, which leaves me intensely disappointed in them, as people. Overall, most of me thinks it'll be far healthier to have them out of my life, and I can only hope that I'm making the right decision, now.

This case looks like it's unlikely to end in prison, unless there are some previously-unknown IRS shenanigans.

@Goldielocks I have been considering all of these things, and will be regrouping and making FIRE/long-term career decisions, once I get over this hurdle. I will have to find people to ask who know more about the intersection between illustration and engineering.

@chrisgermany I'll see if I can get them on my own, first. I don't want to rack up a big bill, if it turns out there are no irregularities. Some of my mother's controlling behavior is simply the need for control, full stop. If I find anything strange in them, though, I'll send it straight to the lawyer.

UnleashHell

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1563 on: February 07, 2019, 04:05:46 AM »
I'd suggest you get all your tax returns from them too.
if it goes legal them its possible you could claim for money you lost due to lost funding for schools, refusal to invest and turn over the money. etc.etc.
your relationship may break over this. get everything out of the way now in one go.

if your mother has been abusive re money then have you though she might be doing the same to your grandparents? you might want to wrest control of that back too.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1564 on: February 07, 2019, 06:25:54 AM »
Or at least let your grandparents know what really happened with all the money they have given on your behalf.  Sounds like your mother scammed them too.

@Axecleaver, any suggestions here?

marion10

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1565 on: February 07, 2019, 06:31:01 AM »
I am so sorry. Get a lawyer and do it now. My father was trustee for me and my sisters for an inheritance and stole it all - gave me big guilt trips when I got a lawyer and then stole everything and skipped town. Did not hear from him for over 20 years and was surprised when his daughters wanted nothing to do with him.

PrairieBeardstache

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1566 on: February 07, 2019, 06:43:12 AM »
Oh boy, a thread for me to vent on...

Here's my story (so far:)

...

It's not your fault and your mom is a selfish prick. Full stop.

Also, there are some of us that need to distance ourselves from our parents. It's not an easy decision. Most people won't understand or support you. There's more than enough evidence and papers to indicate that doing so is a healthy activity. Don't look back. March forward. Find what you need and go after it.

I wish you the best.

AMandM

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1567 on: February 07, 2019, 07:00:00 AM »
Quote
And I suppose I'm writing this all down, here, because I still feel like an entitled, lazy, and spoiled child for suing them, and it's mostly my fault I'm in this position, in the first place.

Oh, my dear, my heart breaks for the years of abuse that have you still feeling this way.

It is not entitled to want what was given to you, and to want to use it for its intended purpose.  Seeking justice is not entitlement.

It is not lazy to work to support yourself and to do so in the face of active interference obstacles. Doing something other than what your mother wants is not laziness.

It is not spoiled to be in a financial predicament due to medical issues, it is not spoiled to take steps to escape abuse, it is not spoiled to have recourse to professionals to help you to do so.

It is not your fault that your mother lied, cheated, abused, and manipulated you.  It is to your credit that you can see the lies, cheating, abuse, and manipulation, and that you are actively resisting and fighting against them.  Hang in there.

Along with a lawyer for the money, can you consult a therapist? In my area at least, there are free or sliding-scale clinics associated with universities or community centers or churches.

Good luck!  We're all rooting for you!

P.S.
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f4506t.pdf for free transcripts of your tax returns (contains the line-by-line info)
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f4506.pdf for actual copies, $50 each

radram

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1568 on: February 07, 2019, 08:03:56 AM »
P.S.
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f4506t.pdf for free transcripts of your tax returns (contains the line-by-line info)
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f4506.pdf for actual copies, $50 each


You can go here and either:
1. Set up an account and see your information TODAY.
2. Request that the documents me mailed to you in about 2 weeks.

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/get-transcript

I was unable to set up an account, so I just had them mail it to me. Very simple, very easy, very complete. Note that the information looks very different than the tax forms, but all the numbers are there if you look.

Please do this today, and send it directly to your lawyer when you get it. I am guessing your lawyer will give some sort of notification to your parents that they are not to file on your behalf anymore.

Have you been signing your returns? I would no longer sign them without having your lawyer look at them.

Please keep us posted.

lhamo

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1569 on: February 07, 2019, 08:16:25 AM »
You might also want to check and see if there are any support groups for LBGTQ youth in your area -- you might not fit their age profile, but I bet they see this kind of thing a lot and they might be able to point you toward useful resources.

Also, if you have good grades and GRE scores, you should be able to get a fully-funded Ph.D. position in data science.  The stipend won't be huge, and you might have to settle for a second-tier program, but it isn't like the humanities and social sciences where you often have to fund your own way.  At least apply.

I would also start a separate thread on getting into the field, and point back to your post for the backstory.  Lots of people in tech here and many may be willing to help, at least at the level of providing good advice about how to network, lesser known channels to explore for getting your foot in the door, etc.  You are a female with tech skills.  Can't believe there is nothing out there for you.

I'm sure I'm not the only one here who wants to see you leave your horrible parents in the dust.  You can do this.  We will help you -- with moral support if nothing else.  But I think this community can do more to help you defeat this evil.

Just Joe

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1570 on: February 07, 2019, 11:59:25 AM »
Go low contact or no contact with your parents. The mother for obvious reasons, your father b/c he tells your mother everything. Your grandfather or any other relative could potentially tell your mother anything you confide in them. I think you'll need to keep your financial strategies to yourself for here on out. Keep significant miles between yourself and your parents so they don't just drop in on you unexpectedly. Perhaps even keep your address private.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1571 on: February 08, 2019, 06:48:09 AM »
The reddit "Raised by Narcissists" will have a lot of good advice on how to escape and handle your parents.

Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1572 on: February 08, 2019, 07:42:35 AM »
@dramathrowaway, I came back to suggest you start your own thread so we can offer more support, and I see dear, wise lhamo has made the same suggestion. A journal provides a little more freedom and privacy than a general forum post, as it's less searchable.

While you're doing research, get a DNA test kit, just because it's a fun distraction, if nothing else. I wouldn't be surprised if your conception was somehow the crux of the issue. Was it a shotgun wedding? Was there manipulation by your father or her parents? Did you innocently interrupt some plans she had for her future? She very possibly behaves this way toward you because of deficiencies she feels in herself, but she'll never admit it. Don't waste your precious life energy on her, she's unlikely to ever change. Spend your spoons making your life the one you truly deserve. She simply can not and will not do that for you.

In my own life, I know my momma loved me (cue Paul Simon), but our relationship was the source of much heartache on both sides. In retrospect, she may have been jealous of me. I was more extroverted and willing to think for myself and make my own decisions. (Headstrong? Independent? Yes.) As I grew and made [good] choices that reflected who I was, her seething multiplied. Perhaps she resented my freedom. I always thought I'd feel guilty when she was gone. I am continually amazed to discover that what I feel is deep, abiding, abundant relief.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2019, 09:17:37 AM by Dicey »

mm1970

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1573 on: February 08, 2019, 01:17:55 PM »
@dramathrowaway ,   

I'll be very blunt.  Instruct your lawyer to show no mercy.  Your mother deserves whatever the law tosses at her, including jail.
You have no reason to be nice.   Your own mother is stealing from you.   If you end up getting her put into jail for it, feel good about yourself.

I see no reason to deal with her ever again once you get your money.   If your dad participated or condoned the abuse, ditto for him.   

It's not your fault that your mother is scum.

And you sound pretty amazing.  Yeah, you.
+1 on this and what everyone else says. 

My heart breaks for you.  Can't be an engineer?  I'm 20+ years older than you and an engineer.  Still with the anti-gay stuff in this day and age?  My aunt (who is 60) is gay and I know SHE went through that at your age, but now?  It's terrible.


jengod

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1574 on: February 08, 2019, 07:44:48 PM »
Hello @dramathrowaway:

My husband shared this article with me the other day and now I share it with you. He was estranged from his parents for at least 10 years and he doesn't regret it. We do try to keep them connected to their grandkids, but it's still better for his mental health to separate.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/i-cut-off-all-contact-with-my-mother-it-made-my-life-much-better/2019/01/18/cc454e9e-1529-11e9-90a8-136fa44b80ba_story.html?utm_term=.074a2b7d96cb

Don't hesitate to sue your mother. She's clearly abusive across many dimensions, including financially. Get your money back and then just cut her out of your life. When you can afford therapy, please get it and take the years (decades?) necessary to put your experiences in proper context.

I think you're doing a great job with your life and cutting out this hostile energy will make it even better.

Here's an article on female narcissists (who may present a bit differently than male narcissists). See if anything matches:
https://thoughtcatalog.com/shahida-arabi/2018/01/the-female-narcissist-is-just-as-dangerous-heres-why/

GOOD LUCK!

FIPurpose

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1575 on: February 09, 2019, 08:38:13 AM »
Oh boy, a thread for me to vent on...

Here's my story (so far:)

...

Everyone I've told this story to has strongly advised me to get a lawyer, and I hesitated for months, hoping some reasonable solution could be reached. (For example, giving me a portion of the funds to invest in index funds, so that I could demonstrate that I'm a responsible investor, but every possible compromise was rejected.) The bank said that if I can get a court order, they'll happily turn it over. I also checked to make sure my mother hasn't drained the account, but it seems she hasn't. (A little after that, my mother discovered the girlfriend, and we had our largely-unrelated fight.)

...

So, I've gotten a lawyer. I dislike doing it, and it feels scummy. Growing up, I was taught I owed everything to them, and I mean EVERYTHING. My art talent/skill wasn't my own, neither were my grades, study habits, etc. They even said my friends only liked me due to my parents' large house! Looking back, this is abusive behavior. (And for the sake of brevity, I'm leaving out descriptions of the years of physical abuse, including chemical burns, and other assorted, but mostly unrelated, abuse.) They weren't parents trying to prepare their child for the world -- they wanted me under their control, and dependent on them (or another male authority figure.) Their primary goal when I attended college was for me to find a husband, for chrissake. I know this is going to wreck whatever remains of my relationship to my mother, and likely the rest of my biological family, too. But given the girlfriend-arguments and already strained relationship, I'm not sure that's much of a loss.

...

@lexde

I bolded a particular phrase that stuck out to me. Lawyers can be scummy. There is somewhat of a common trope that lawyers are scoundrels leaching off the public. But I don't think that's how you're using this phrase.

This came off to me as exactly as your mother would want you to feel. This is the abuse speaking to you; this is the abuse lying to you. There is absolutely nothing scummy or dislikable about taking someone who has stolen from you to court. This is your mother trying to get into your head. These feelings you have about the lawyer I believe are actually coming from your upbringing.

This isn't your fault, and you're not weak for needing the government to bring justice for you. Use the help the lawyer will give you. Let the lawyer bring absolutely everything he can against your parents.

dramathrowaway

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1576 on: February 09, 2019, 06:50:15 PM »
Thanks for all the best wishes and advice. Reading your replies and feeling your empathy, I have a better sense of how skewed my own view has become. I've heard of NPD (narcissistic personality disorder) and the relevant subreddits, though I've largely avoided them, due to how similar their experiences are to my own. It can sometimes be hard to read. I strongly suspect my mother has some form of this, which was left to fester, as she never sought out any means of bettering herself. As for therapy, I'm working through CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) and DBT (Dialectical behavior therapy, to learn healthy coping mechanisms,) on my own. When I have more in the way of funding, I'll likely pursue formal therapy. In the meantime, I'm fortunate enough to have a couple people in my life who are familiar enough with the kinds of problems someone like me typically develops. I have it on good authority that I'm likely to beat this in 3-5 years, so I'm fairly optimistic.

Going low to no contact will also likely be a relief. Also, the information for the IRS saved me a few clicks. Thanks. :)

I've made another (non-throwaway) account, that I'll use to discuss my adventures in mustachianism. (--> @JSalazar)

@Dicey I have enough information to infer most of the story. If you're curious: my parents were strongly influenced by my grandparents, who were self-made millionaires (quite mustachian, but outside of their business, nutsos.) The grandparents withheld affection, were physically abusive, etc., but my mother put up with it due to the significant financial aid my grandparents provided. To my grandparents, motherhood was expected. Unfortunately, motherhood turned out to be far more work than my mother was willing to do. Before I was born, she enjoyed a social life full of glittering parties & fancy dinners. I wasn't a healthy baby, when I was born. I don't believe I ever needed long-term hospitalization, but it was enough to effectively kill her social life. (I was the sort of baby with sensitivity to sound/light/certain textures/foods, etc.) This enraged her. She expected me to do everything perfectly the first time, to never be ill, to never need different food, etc. As I grew up, I was a frequent interruption in her routine, and she needs her routines like most people need water (severe OCD.) Eventually I learned better, but then she started seeking me out, demanding I act in the role of a therapist any time her own parents decided to belittle her parenting skills (or lack thereof.) It's funny, because I learned to treat my own issues through research/attempts to treat my mother. What made it worse was that my grandparents seemed to unconditionally love me, praising me as though I could do no wrong. My mother, on the other hand, could never do anything right. If you're familiar with NPD, it's a slight twist on the golden child / scapegoat dynamic. Once I began to see the dynamic for what it was, I started feeling uncomfortable around my grandparents, especially as I learned more about how they abused their daughter. I'm committed to breaking that chain.

I also suspect she thought she could relive her younger (best) years through me. She dressed me up as she had dressed, when she was younger. I was made to adopt her chosen hairstyle, hair color, the kinds of clothes she liked, friends she would've had, etc. This sort of thing is cute when done to babies (sort of?) but disturbing when done to a 16-25 year old. For example, I read much more than she did, which resulted in punishment. Basically, she wanted MomVer2.0. The abuse was mostly an extension of trying to fit me into this mold, even if it required using hair dye I was *very* allergic to, for example. I could be doubled over in front of her, and she'd just shrug and call it the "price of beauty." The whole situation is both hilarious and sad.



GreenEggs

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1577 on: February 09, 2019, 09:58:12 PM »
"The whole situation is both hilarious and sad."

I have found the ability to see humor in unpleasant situations to be a great asset.  It has allowed me to maintain a positive additude instead of allowing myself to get pulled down by negative feelings. 

You will get through this fine.  I can tell by the way you describe your mother that you understand what makes people tick, which means you can examine and analyze your own emotions, feelings, and motives.  You can move beyond the influence that you mother had on you.  Eventually, you may find that things come full circle and you have the upper hand, and are able to show her the grace and love that she wasn't capable of showing you. (I recently had that pleasure, something which I'll always treasure.)

Don't worry.  Be stong.  Find love & joy.  Everything will be okay, actually it will be much better than okay. 

lexde

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1578 on: February 11, 2019, 11:32:22 AM »
Oh boy, a thread for me to vent on...

Here's my story (so far:)

...

Everyone I've told this story to has strongly advised me to get a lawyer, and I hesitated for months, hoping some reasonable solution could be reached. (For example, giving me a portion of the funds to invest in index funds, so that I could demonstrate that I'm a responsible investor, but every possible compromise was rejected.) The bank said that if I can get a court order, they'll happily turn it over. I also checked to make sure my mother hasn't drained the account, but it seems she hasn't. (A little after that, my mother discovered the girlfriend, and we had our largely-unrelated fight.)

...

So, I've gotten a lawyer. I dislike doing it, and it feels scummy. Growing up, I was taught I owed everything to them, and I mean EVERYTHING. My art talent/skill wasn't my own, neither were my grades, study habits, etc. They even said my friends only liked me due to my parents' large house! Looking back, this is abusive behavior. (And for the sake of brevity, I'm leaving out descriptions of the years of physical abuse, including chemical burns, and other assorted, but mostly unrelated, abuse.) They weren't parents trying to prepare their child for the world -- they wanted me under their control, and dependent on them (or another male authority figure.) Their primary goal when I attended college was for me to find a husband, for chrissake. I know this is going to wreck whatever remains of my relationship to my mother, and likely the rest of my biological family, too. But given the girlfriend-arguments and already strained relationship, I'm not sure that's much of a loss.

...

@lexde

I bolded a particular phrase that stuck out to me. Lawyers can be scummy. There is somewhat of a common trope that lawyers are scoundrels leaching off the public. But I don't think that's how you're using this phrase.

This came off to me as exactly as your mother would want you to feel. This is the abuse speaking to you; this is the abuse lying to you. There is absolutely nothing scummy or dislikable about taking someone who has stolen from you to court. This is your mother trying to get into your head. These feelings you have about the lawyer I believe are actually coming from your upbringing.

This isn't your fault, and you're not weak for needing the government to bring justice for you. Use the help the lawyer will give you. Let the lawyer bring absolutely everything he can against your parents.
Hi hello! I don't think the "scummy" was in reference to the lawyer, but was more in reference to having to go over her parents' heads to the law, when parents have typically been the end-all-be-all authority figure for her.

@dramathrowaway -- don't think of this as "suing your parents." Think of the action more as "following procedure to gain access to assets that are yours." Do you have any access to the account? Can you see the balance?

I don't know what state your assets are in so I can't tell you what the particular laws are regarding your situation. Blahblah this isn't legal advice I'm not your lawyer etc.

With the limited information that I have available, I'd contact the financial representative and ask once more that the account be transferred as you are now over the age of majority, do not have a custodian or guardian appointed to you, and by law the assets are exclusively yours. If they refuse or give you the runaround, remain adamant: I am over the age of transfer, I am a legal adult, I do not have a custodian or guardian appointed to me, by law the assets are exclusively mine. Still nothing? Request to be put in touch with the legal department. Remind them politely that if they do not release the funds to you, that they will be looking at legal proceedings not just for the amount of funds in the account but for associated legal fees and court expenses. If they are not disputing that you are the beneficiary, this should be a non-issue. Ask them to transfer the funds into an account that is exclusively yours. It's absurd that they are circumventing (what I am assuming to be) the law here by refusing to give you access to your own funds.

If that doesn't work, then just call the service department and ask what they need in order to liquidate the account. Sometimes a simple workaround like this, with no pretense or contention, is the way to go, and a rep will tell you what you need (which shouldn't include the custodian letter). If they require the letter, tell them that you are over the custodial age and ask if an affidavit signed by you and notarized would be sufficient. Affidavits are easy, just ask what info they need and make sure it's included. You can probably google something like, "Affidavit of Identity" for examples.

lexde

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1579 on: February 11, 2019, 11:44:05 AM »
I guess I can contribute to this thread on my own, too.

My grandfather was a multimillionaire, his kids (my father + uncle) were set to inherit everything except his (lavish) home when he passed. His second wife forged a new will and left us with nothing. Also we are pretty sure she "induced" his passing. That was about $25M to each son that evaporated.

A few years later...

My great-uncle (grandfather's brother) was also a multimillionaire. Everything was supposed to go in equal parts to my father & my uncle on his passing since he was a jerk and didn't have a family of his own. The timing on this one was bad. Great-uncle went into hospice, and a few months later my dad died. While my dad was on life support, my uncle told great-uncle that my dad had already died (knowing full well he had not, and we still had some hope at that point...) and told him to write my dad out of the will, leaving $25,000 total to my brother and I rather than half of the estate (valued at around $10M). My mom spent the $25K on a lawyer trying to show undue influence, but because he was in hospice for so long before, no one could attest that he was NOT clear at the time he made the change. So that was $5M directly to me that went up in smoke. My cousins (uncle's kids) were absolutely rotten to me for a long time and sucked up to him thinking they would get something out of it, but they haven't (and won't) see a penny of it. He'd rather burn his dollars on his funeral pyre than see them go to anyone else. What a sad, truly evil person he is.

TLDR: My family is full of vultures, money makes evil people more-evil, none of this was surprising, I should have been a multi-millionaire at 18, and I'm doing just fine paying my own way.

AMandM

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1580 on: February 11, 2019, 12:49:17 PM »
lexde, if you don't mind speculating publicly, what do you think would have happened to you if you had received the multi-millions back when you were 18?  It sounds like it could have been close to $20M between your grandfather and your great-uncle. Were you already financially wise, or would it have led you to  waste your twenties in frivolous spending?

Pooperman

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1581 on: February 11, 2019, 01:23:55 PM »
Thanks for all the best wishes and advice. Reading your replies and feeling your empathy, I have a better sense of how skewed my own view has become. I've heard of NPD (narcissistic personality disorder) and the relevant subreddits, though I've largely avoided them, due to how similar their experiences are to my own. It can sometimes be hard to read. I strongly suspect my mother has some form of this, which was left to fester, as she never sought out any means of bettering herself. As for therapy, I'm working through CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) and DBT (Dialectical behavior therapy, to learn healthy coping mechanisms,) on my own. When I have more in the way of funding, I'll likely pursue formal therapy. In the meantime, I'm fortunate enough to have a couple people in my life who are familiar enough with the kinds of problems someone like me typically develops. I have it on good authority that I'm likely to beat this in 3-5 years, so I'm fairly optimistic.

Going low to no contact will also likely be a relief. Also, the information for the IRS saved me a few clicks. Thanks. :)

I've made another (non-throwaway) account, that I'll use to discuss my adventures in mustachianism. (--> @JSalazar)

@Dicey I have enough information to infer most of the story. If you're curious: my parents were strongly influenced by my grandparents, who were self-made millionaires (quite mustachian, but outside of their business, nutsos.) The grandparents withheld affection, were physically abusive, etc., but my mother put up with it due to the significant financial aid my grandparents provided. To my grandparents, motherhood was expected. Unfortunately, motherhood turned out to be far more work than my mother was willing to do. Before I was born, she enjoyed a social life full of glittering parties & fancy dinners. I wasn't a healthy baby, when I was born. I don't believe I ever needed long-term hospitalization, but it was enough to effectively kill her social life. (I was the sort of baby with sensitivity to sound/light/certain textures/foods, etc.) This enraged her. She expected me to do everything perfectly the first time, to never be ill, to never need different food, etc. As I grew up, I was a frequent interruption in her routine, and she needs her routines like most people need water (severe OCD.) Eventually I learned better, but then she started seeking me out, demanding I act in the role of a therapist any time her own parents decided to belittle her parenting skills (or lack thereof.) It's funny, because I learned to treat my own issues through research/attempts to treat my mother. What made it worse was that my grandparents seemed to unconditionally love me, praising me as though I could do no wrong. My mother, on the other hand, could never do anything right. If you're familiar with NPD, it's a slight twist on the golden child / scapegoat dynamic. Once I began to see the dynamic for what it was, I started feeling uncomfortable around my grandparents, especially as I learned more about how they abused their daughter. I'm committed to breaking that chain.

I also suspect she thought she could relive her younger (best) years through me. She dressed me up as she had dressed, when she was younger. I was made to adopt her chosen hairstyle, hair color, the kinds of clothes she liked, friends she would've had, etc. This sort of thing is cute when done to babies (sort of?) but disturbing when done to a 16-25 year old. For example, I read much more than she did, which resulted in punishment. Basically, she wanted MomVer2.0. The abuse was mostly an extension of trying to fit me into this mold, even if it required using hair dye I was *very* allergic to, for example. I could be doubled over in front of her, and she'd just shrug and call it the "price of beauty." The whole situation is both hilarious and sad.

Something else to check: your credit. Someone who would steal from you like this may also have stolen from you another way.

TexasRunner

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1582 on: February 11, 2019, 02:22:50 PM »
Something else to check: your credit. Someone who would steal from you like this may also have stolen from you another way.

Very much this, and you can run your credit report online for free.

(This is the ACTUAL free one, government sponsored:  https://www.annualcreditreport.com/.  FYI there are a ton of "Buy your credit report sites" that are really just trying to offer credit monitoring...)

Just Joe

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1583 on: February 28, 2019, 10:16:03 AM »
I've written a couple long winded narratives here about this and then deleted them. I don't know what to make of recent events.

In short a relative I haven't seen in a very long time has popped up asking for DOB and address to add me to their will and possibly transfer unspecified property to me if I want it. This relative is from a messy part of the family that often feuded over money. Now this relative is one of the few left and has whatever is left of that money. There seems to be a genuine wish to gift me property in my town that i would then be free to sell or keep if I wanted.

Relative tells me I'm their favorite. Might even be true b/c I did happily spent time with them when I was younger and I've never said a mean word to them though they were part of the inheritance drama after my grandparents passed.

My parent was also part of the drama although myself and my other parent gently removed my parent from the drama to preserve their emotional stability. It left emotional scars.

In short my grandparents had a will which divided up things more or less equally but a now dead relative raided some of the accounts and walked away. Various papers went missing, some cash went missing, relative went mum, etc. As my parents didn't need the money, my attitude was that they should just retreat and make peace with it. We all cut ties and continued our lives.

That's my attitude now. If this relative were to get weird - or cause problems with their sibling/my parent - I'd rather just walk away from whatever the gift might be.

Its a different kind of FU money that DW and I have - the ability to avoid inheritance conflicts b/c we have our own comfortable life.

I'm worried both about some sort of identity theft risk and worried about the potential family drama time bomb this might create.

So should I be worried about giving over my DOB and address? Any risks that anyone can identify?

jinga nation

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1584 on: February 28, 2019, 11:16:10 AM »
I've written a couple long winded narratives here about this and then deleted them. I don't know what to make of recent events.

In short a relative I haven't seen in a very long time has popped up asking for DOB and address to add me to their will and possibly transfer unspecified property to me if I want it. This relative is from a messy part of the family that often feuded over money. Now this relative is one of the few left and has whatever is left of that money. There seems to be a genuine wish to gift me property in my town that i would then be free to sell or keep if I wanted.

Relative tells me I'm their favorite. Might even be true b/c I did happily spent time with them when I was younger and I've never said a mean word to them though they were part of the inheritance drama after my grandparents passed.

My parent was also part of the drama although myself and my other parent gently removed my parent from the drama to preserve their emotional stability. It left emotional scars.

In short my grandparents had a will which divided up things more or less equally but a now dead relative raided some of the accounts and walked away. Various papers went missing, some cash went missing, relative went mum, etc. As my parents didn't need the money, my attitude was that they should just retreat and make peace with it. We all cut ties and continued our lives.

That's my attitude now. If this relative were to get weird - or cause problems with their sibling/my parent - I'd rather just walk away from whatever the gift might be.

Its a different kind of FU money that DW and I have - the ability to avoid inheritance conflicts b/c we have our own comfortable life.

I'm worried both about some sort of identity theft risk and worried about the potential family drama time bomb this might create.

So should I be worried about giving over my DOB and address? Any risks that anyone can identify?

Red flags all over this. you don't need the DOB and address for a will, at least not where I live. Identity theft happening 99.9% guaranteed if you give the info. That relative might be going around with the same story to other relatives too... you don't phish one person at a time.

To mess with them, give them a fake DOB like 6/9/69 and a UPS store address. That might cause follow-on issues, your call.

six-car-habit

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1585 on: February 28, 2019, 11:26:48 AM »
 I would say visit the relative [uncle / aunt ?] and take them out for lunch.  They may have a different perspective on the previous drama you haven't heard, or may have had their own issues with deceased grabby relative - that they want to talk to someone about, but doesn't want to approach your parent seeking for a sympathetic ear.

  Bring them to the property in question, have a snack on the lawn, tree clearing, rooftop, sidewalk, whichever.  Ask what they would want done with the property and why you seem to them to be the best caretaker for it. I suppose they would like it kept in the family, at least a little longer ?

 Its a relative , they can figure out your address, and your birthday date can be found in some old calendar of their own, or Grandmas calendar/ datebook from when JustJoe was a cute 3 yr old , and Aunt/ Uncle went to your b-day party.. They can reason out the year of birth. I wouldn't stress on identity theft too much.

partgypsy

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1586 on: February 28, 2019, 12:03:14 PM »
 I want to say dramathrowaway's story holy smokes is one of the worst family accounts I've read. So sorry you had to go through that.

In my family there was favoritism of the boys. Some examples the boys got allowances. When we asked for an allowance our Dad said, what do you need an allowance for? If you need something I can buy it. We had chores we had to do, but did not get paid for them (one of them was making all the beds, including our brothers' beds). However if our brothers did the exact same chore (shoveling snow, mowing lawn) they would be paid.

 On my mom's side, my mother was the first born, but then about 5, 7 years later her 2 little brothers came along. She was very bright (read every book in her branch library) and told that they would make sure she would go to college. When it came time to go to college my grandparents said of course she's not going to college, they were saving any money they had so her brothers could go, and she should just move back after high school and get a job to help support the family and her brothers. Maybe that's what would have happened. But my great grandmother said that was nonsense she was the smartest of the bunch, and paid the college costs. And while my Mom did inherit some significant assets from the great grandfather, I don't think she got anything of note when either of her parents passed away.

On my Dad's side, my grandmother was widowed young. Even though she was considered middle class, her husband both due to business losses occuring when he was sick, and from pride, made sure to pay all his debts before he died, leaving the family with nothing (not even a house). Raised two sons with great grandmother's help (who was also widowed young). She immigrated to the US, brought both of her sons over eventually and gave them all the money she had saved from working at a sweat shop for 5-10 years. Luckily the brothers were successful so she lived with us or our aunt and uncle the rest of her life. She still was so frugal that if she got a bar of soap as a gift, wouldn't use it, but display it on her dresser.

Anyways whenever there is a crisis our mother often wants us two girls to drop everything to help "the family". This has happened to my sister multiple times since she lives closer. I understand my mother was raised to feel that females have less value, or only value in regards to how they could help the family, but no, not going to keep that going. She has a number of jewelry pieces that were willed down to us from our great grandmother. She agrees they are ours, but also will not give them to us, because "she might need to sell for financial reasons". Financial reasons including making sure my deadbeat older brother, who lives off her, has cable, xbox, and cigarettes. I'm thinking the likelihood that my sister and I will inherit anything of value from either parent is slim to none. 
« Last Edit: March 02, 2019, 06:51:06 PM by partgypsy »

Just Joe

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1587 on: February 28, 2019, 12:17:07 PM »
I would say visit the relative [uncle / aunt ?] and take them out for lunch.  They may have a different perspective on the previous drama you haven't heard, or may have had their own issues with deceased grabby relative - that they want to talk to someone about, but doesn't want to approach your parent seeking for a sympathetic ear.

  Bring them to the property in question, have a snack on the lawn, tree clearing, rooftop, sidewalk, whichever.  Ask what they would want done with the property and why you seem to them to be the best caretaker for it. I suppose they would like it kept in the family, at least a little longer ?

 Its a relative , they can figure out your address, and your birthday date can be found in some old calendar of their own, or Grandmas calendar/ datebook from when JustJoe was a cute 3 yr old , and Aunt/ Uncle went to your b-day party.. They can reason out the year of birth. I wouldn't stress on identity theft too much.

Don't know exactly where the relative lives. I know +/- 100 miles of where they live but only because of what they told me. Jinga: I agree on the DOB and address. I was able to find this relative's info this morn doing a basic background check. If I can find their's, they can find mine.

I think what I'll do is invite them to lunch the next time they are in my state, they do alot of miles a year apparently. Talk a little, as suggested. They did say they were using a local lawyer whose name I did not recognize. Maybe I'll get more info and talk to the lawyer. See if this is all real. Perhaps explore what financial liabilities I might be facing.

AMandM

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1588 on: February 28, 2019, 03:00:51 PM »
Just Joe, I don't think ID theft is a big concern since the information they are asking for is easy to get--although, by the same token, the relative should be able to get them without contacting you. I agree that you should make friendly contact. Don't approach him/her with suspicion, just with caution.  Find out more about what is going on and what their goal is. Who knows, maybe part of the drama that your branch of the family subtracted themselves from included this relative trying to undo the damage done by the late thieving relative.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1589 on: February 28, 2019, 03:44:22 PM »
I’d just like to chime in my support for @dramathrowaway. You are an amazing person who deserves access to your own money and a chance to thrive without your family dragging you down. I hope your lawyer gets the legal system to throw the book at your mother. What she is doing and has done is reprehensible.

Please do keep us posted. We are rooting for you. I wish there was something concrete I could do to help.

bluebelle

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1590 on: March 02, 2019, 10:13:19 AM »
I'm hoping we can keep it from being 'drama' but I think there will be some hurt feelings......backstory, my in-laws wrote their will 30 years ago (before I was on the scene) and DH was in his early 20s (and not great with money).....fast forward 30 years, my MIL passed a few months ago after a lengthy illness.  Helping his dad with paperwork, DH is given a copy of his mother's will, he is named executor, he had no idea.  We're assuming his father's will is the same.  When my FIL passes, it will divide the assests as 50% to DH and 25% to each of his sisters.   The only rationale we can come up with is that it's because he has a penis.  One of the sisters is older than him, both sisters have been dedicated to the parents, both are sensible with money.  It can only be a cultural decision to favour the male born child.  DH and I have already decided that it will be a 33.3% split amongst the siblings, and we will keep his sisters from even knowing if we can.  I know when the time comes it will be me making the decsions and paperwork and DH will just sign as executor.  His family has been in Canada for over 50 years, how can they still think it's okay to short change daughters?  It boggles my mind.  My parents wanted things to be so fair that they made my brother and I join executors, they knew I'm better with money but didn't want to potentially offend my older brother.   And we're both so honest, we would never rip off the other.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2019, 10:37:35 AM by bluebelle »

Just Joe

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1591 on: March 02, 2019, 10:51:45 AM »
That's the way to do it. I think I'm the executor of the will alone but will certainly bring in my sibling so they have 100% awareness and 50% of the property/money. I've witnessed a will where one of multiple siblings had all the knowledge and as soon as the last parent died - everything went to hell. Papers went missing, money went missing and there was no way to ever prove it b/c nobody but the executor had any awareness of the whole picture. Not good.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1592 on: March 03, 2019, 11:07:33 PM »
I'm hoping we can keep it from being 'drama' but I think there will be some hurt feelings......backstory, my in-laws wrote their will 30 years ago (before I was on the scene) and DH was in his early 20s (and not great with money).....fast forward 30 years, my MIL passed a few months ago after a lengthy illness.  Helping his dad with paperwork, DH is given a copy of his mother's will, he is named executor, he had no idea.  We're assuming his father's will is the same.  When my FIL passes, it will divide the assests as 50% to DH and 25% to each of his sisters.   The only rationale we can come up with is that it's because he has a penis.  One of the sisters is older than him, both sisters have been dedicated to the parents, both are sensible with money.  It can only be a cultural decision to favour the male born child.  DH and I have already decided that it will be a 33.3% split amongst the siblings, and we will keep his sisters from even knowing if we can.  I know when the time comes it will be me making the decsions and paperwork and DH will just sign as executor.  His family has been in Canada for over 50 years, how can they still think it's okay to short change daughters?  It boggles my mind.  My parents wanted things to be so fair that they made my brother and I join executors, they knew I'm better with money but didn't want to potentially offend my older brother.   And we're both so honest, we would never rip off the other.

Why keep it a secret?  Don't you want them to know they a getting a equal share?  Or are you trying to keep the will a secret? That might be harder.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1593 on: March 04, 2019, 06:30:50 AM »
I'm hoping we can keep it from being 'drama' but I think there will be some hurt feelings......backstory, my in-laws wrote their will 30 years ago (before I was on the scene) and DH was in his early 20s (and not great with money).....fast forward 30 years, my MIL passed a few months ago after a lengthy illness.  Helping his dad with paperwork, DH is given a copy of his mother's will, he is named executor, he had no idea.  We're assuming his father's will is the same.  When my FIL passes, it will divide the assests as 50% to DH and 25% to each of his sisters.   The only rationale we can come up with is that it's because he has a penis.  One of the sisters is older than him, both sisters have been dedicated to the parents, both are sensible with money.  It can only be a cultural decision to favour the male born child.  DH and I have already decided that it will be a 33.3% split amongst the siblings, and we will keep his sisters from even knowing if we can.  I know when the time comes it will be me making the decsions and paperwork and DH will just sign as executor.  His family has been in Canada for over 50 years, how can they still think it's okay to short change daughters?  It boggles my mind.  My parents wanted things to be so fair that they made my brother and I join executors, they knew I'm better with money but didn't want to potentially offend my older brother.   And we're both so honest, we would never rip off the other.

Why keep it a secret?  Don't you want them to know they a getting a equal share?  Or are you trying to keep the will a secret? That might be harder.

I think the part they want to keep secret is that the parents didn't treat the kids equally.   They want all siblings to be treated equally and think the parents intended it that way.

Alfred J Quack

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1594 on: March 04, 2019, 07:09:14 AM »
@dramathrowaway, you are certainly not a bad person. In a no-win situation, yes. In a very dificult spot, certainly. But always remember, you are responsible for your own actions and so is your mother. You made a choice with the lawyer and I applaud you for taking that long, stick with it and protect yourself!

As for my own "drama". My grandfather from the UK wasn't well a few years back. The last time I visited my father and uncles were openly discussing how the monies were going to be divided a after his passing. They knew his will and were not afraid about talking about it, though it was a businesslike conversation.
Fast forward a year, and he had passed away. The funeral was very well cared for, they had a speaker from the humanist society and it was all very familyal.

A month or 2 later I get a mail from my dad, the executor wanted my address so he could write me a cheque for the inheritance. I answered that I couldn't cash a check with my bank and that he'd have to wire it to my account (most banks in the Netherlands don't cash cheques anymore).
2 weeks later I have 2 cheques in the mail, one for me and one for my son. So I get pissed, mail my dad that I can't do anything with it and that he should take it out on the executor. He does, in a 5 week back and forth they work out the details and he sends it to my account.

As I understand it, my dad, uncles and aunt were going totally nuts over the executor. He'd send e-mails asking for partial information, then send a second and maybe e third after you respond that he needs more info. All the while charging 300 pounds an hour.
Also, part of the will was that the great-grandkids received a small sum at their 16th birthday. The executor would have to "check" every year whether one had reached this age and if so take action. They basically told him that they would pay out those cheques immediatly because their inheritance was dependent on the amount that would have been left over.


I mind it more that my kids never got to see their great-grandfather though... Especially my oldest son, he was already born but we just couldn't make the time for it. If anything, my drama is the remorse I feel about that...

Just Joe

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1595 on: March 04, 2019, 07:44:29 AM »
Here's an odd question: if someone were to me gift a check - say $10K - and there is the potential for family drama, where would be the best place for me to put the money so I could either return the money or divide it at a later date?

In the bank and under the mattress doesn't really let it grow to keep up with inflation. Other methods might be too restrictive. I just don't know much about these things.

I was promised a gift of some amount but don't really expect to receive anything ever. Maybe it will go perfectly, no drama.

I can also imagine this being the focal point of a family dispute later if I was gifted something but no one else was. If it all goes sour I'd just rather give the money back rather than be in the middle of something. I have a low tolerance for all that sort of stuff. DW and I are doing just fine by ourselves.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1596 on: March 04, 2019, 08:14:23 AM »
I'm hoping we can keep it from being 'drama' but I think there will be some hurt feelings......backstory, my in-laws wrote their will 30 years ago (before I was on the scene) and DH was in his early 20s (and not great with money).....fast forward 30 years, my MIL passed a few months ago after a lengthy illness.  Helping his dad with paperwork, DH is given a copy of his mother's will, he is named executor, he had no idea.  We're assuming his father's will is the same.  When my FIL passes, it will divide the assests as 50% to DH and 25% to each of his sisters.   The only rationale we can come up with is that it's because he has a penis.  One of the sisters is older than him, both sisters have been dedicated to the parents, both are sensible with money.  It can only be a cultural decision to favour the male born child.  DH and I have already decided that it will be a 33.3% split amongst the siblings, and we will keep his sisters from even knowing if we can.  I know when the time comes it will be me making the decsions and paperwork and DH will just sign as executor.  His family has been in Canada for over 50 years, how can they still think it's okay to short change daughters?  It boggles my mind.  My parents wanted things to be so fair that they made my brother and I join executors, they knew I'm better with money but didn't want to potentially offend my older brother.   And we're both so honest, we would never rip off the other.

Why keep it a secret?  Don't you want them to know they a getting a equal share?  Or are you trying to keep the will a secret? That might be harder.

It's two separate decisions:

1. DH decides that he will transfer whatever is necessary to make the estate end up 33-33-33.
2. DH asks his parents to explain why they're choosing the %'s they are.


sherr

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1597 on: March 04, 2019, 08:24:34 AM »
Here's an odd question: if someone were to me gift a check - say $10K - and there is the potential for family drama, where would be the best place for me to put the money so I could either return the money or divide it at a later date?

In the bank and under the mattress doesn't really let it grow to keep up with inflation. Other methods might be too restrictive. I just don't know much about these things.

If you want something completely safe then the best you can do is probably look for online-only high-interest savings accounts. Or a CD, as long as it merely charges something like "last three months of interest" or similar as the early-withdrawal penalty. You probably won't quite keep up with inflation with either of those at the moment, but it's better than the 0.1% or whatever that regular savings accounts are paying these days.

sherr

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1598 on: March 04, 2019, 08:28:21 AM »
I'm hoping we can keep it from being 'drama' but I think there will be some hurt feelings......backstory, my in-laws wrote their will 30 years ago (before I was on the scene) and DH was in his early 20s (and not great with money).....fast forward 30 years, my MIL passed a few months ago after a lengthy illness.  Helping his dad with paperwork, DH is given a copy of his mother's will, he is named executor, he had no idea.  We're assuming his father's will is the same.  When my FIL passes, it will divide the assests as 50% to DH and 25% to each of his sisters.   The only rationale we can come up with is that it's because he has a penis.  One of the sisters is older than him, both sisters have been dedicated to the parents, both are sensible with money.  It can only be a cultural decision to favour the male born child.  DH and I have already decided that it will be a 33.3% split amongst the siblings, and we will keep his sisters from even knowing if we can.  I know when the time comes it will be me making the decsions and paperwork and DH will just sign as executor.  His family has been in Canada for over 50 years, how can they still think it's okay to short change daughters?  It boggles my mind.  My parents wanted things to be so fair that they made my brother and I join executors, they knew I'm better with money but didn't want to potentially offend my older brother.   And we're both so honest, we would never rip off the other.

I'm not sure I'm reading this right, but let me caution you against intentionally ignoring the will. An executor's job is to faithfully carry out the instructions in the will, not to change it to make it better. I don't know Canadian law (or USA law either for that matter) but it would not surprise me if you could be found personally liable if you ignore the will.

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Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1599 on: March 04, 2019, 09:14:01 AM »
You don’t ignore the will. You execute it as written. You then take part of your 50% and gift it to your sisters so the end result is that everyone gets 1/3. Once the inheritance is yours you can do anything you want with it, including distributing it to people you feel should have been left more initially.