Author Topic: Don't Be Fooled by The Retirement Lie  (Read 14706 times)

Wolfpack Mustachian

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Re: Don't Be Fooled by The Retirement Lie
« Reply #150 on: April 29, 2022, 03:49:41 PM »

It's often fun to tell people that "Y'all" is singular while "y'alls" is plural
...and then there's "all y'alls" for addressing a whole mess of people.
:-)

In the upper midwest we use "yoose" (singular) and "yoose guys" (plural, and is gender neutral despite the use of 'guys'). Midwesterners are generally distrustful of large groups as a whole so do not have a word that directly translates to "all y'alls".
Here in Southern Calif it's just "Dudes" - which is gender-neutral. As in "Dudes! That dude on the MMM forum is, like, one of the gnarliest dudes who hangs there amongst all the other rad gnarly dudes who, like, ya know, like ...um... something something... um... pot...
I have to say "y'all" is in the lead. The whole concept of referring to women with male pronouns is going the way of all those early 20th century books talking about "mankind" where if any hypothetical person wants to do something "he" by default does it. And then there is "man" the naked ape, who does "his" best as a hypothetical stand-in for the entire human species.

Out of curiosity, what is the takeaway from this, though? I use "you guys" all the time to refer to a group of people. I feel like language has evolved somewhat for some of these things. Bruh, for example, is clearly used by the younger generation to refer to pretty much everyone - well in fairness it's used as a catch all for about everything. It links back to bro, I'd imagine, but the meaning as used has changed considerably. I have been told in a class or two that I've taken that using "you guys" is sexist, but I just see it as an evolution of the language and not a big deal.

StashingAway

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Re: Don't Be Fooled by The Retirement Lie
« Reply #151 on: April 30, 2022, 03:29:16 PM »
Yeah, if you believe "dude" is truly gender neutral, ask a straight male dude how many dudes he's slept with. Then you'll find out just how not neutral "dude" actually is.
LOL true. In reality I generally use they/their/s unless I know the preferred gendered pronoun the person uses. Never had an issue with it myself but can see how it can be confusing.

"How many y'all's slept with?"
"How many you's have you slept with?"
"How many they's have you slept wiht?"

I think any pronoun in this sentence sounds weird, so putting dude in it doesn't really prove much.

eyesonthehorizon

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Re: Don't Be Fooled by The Retirement Lie
« Reply #152 on: April 30, 2022, 09:48:04 PM »
Yeah, if you believe "dude" is truly gender neutral, ask a straight male dude how many dudes he's slept with. Then you'll find out just how not neutral "dude" actually is.
LOL true. In reality I generally use they/their/s unless I know the preferred gendered pronoun the person uses. Never had an issue with it myself but can see how it can be confusing.

"How many y'all's slept with?"
"How many you's have you slept with?"
"How many they's have you slept wiht?"

I think any pronoun in this sentence sounds weird, so putting dude in it doesn't really prove much.
Well, yes, pronouns are weird in that sentence. You couldn't ask "How many shes have you kissed" without the grammatical oddity calling attention, either.

"Dude," however, is generally a noun, & only extended to use as a pronoun in limited, colloquial circumstances, the same under which you'd see "bro," "man," or "girl" used as a pronoun - e.g. "Pull yourself together, man!" or "Girl, get out of here" operating in the same mode of direct address as "Dude, check out this car."

"Dude" as a countable noun is no more strange than other nouns in that query - its frequent distaff counterpart "chick," or on to "lady," "fella," "gal," "guy," "girl," "boy."

Whether dude is gendered or not, especially as a collective plural is regional & generational, if not even more specifically situational. My generation's media was filmed in (& idealized) southern California, so 'dudes' reads largely as gender-agnostic to me in the same way a mixed-gender collective in French is always "ils" - because personhood carries a notional default masculine gender in both those cultures. Once you raise the specificity of the context, however, such as by asking how many dudes a dude has slept with, that default masculinity can come to matter. (Or not, if they truly embrace dudehood as I learned it in my youth. Be excellent to each other.)

If you're not sure of reception with collective plural pronouns and don't have "y'all" or "yinz" in the local vernacular, it's pretty easy to substitute "Hi guys!" or "Hi dudes!" with "Hi everybody!"

NorthernIkigai

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Re: Don't Be Fooled by The Retirement Lie
« Reply #153 on: May 02, 2022, 07:41:42 AM »
"How many you's have you slept with?" sounds the same as "How many ewes have you slept with?" which sounds like the start of a bad joke about someone from New Zealand...

OtherJen

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Re: Don't Be Fooled by The Retirement Lie
« Reply #154 on: May 02, 2022, 10:59:44 AM »
Yeah, if you believe "dude" is truly gender neutral, ask a straight male dude how many dudes he's slept with. Then you'll find out just how not neutral "dude" actually is.
LOL true. In reality I generally use they/their/s unless I know the preferred gendered pronoun the person uses. Never had an issue with it myself but can see how it can be confusing.

"How many y'all's slept with?"
"How many you's have you slept with?"
"How many they's have you slept wiht?"

I think any pronoun in this sentence sounds weird, so putting dude in it doesn't really prove much.

This isn't really a grammatically correct use of pronouns. "Dudes" is a generic gendered plural noun. For comparison, a gender-neutral plural noun would be appropriate: "How many people have you slept with?"

I think that some people make this more complicated than it needs to be.

shureShote

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Re: Don't Be Fooled by The Retirement Lie
« Reply #155 on: May 02, 2022, 08:14:27 PM »
"How many you's have you slept with?" sounds the same as "How many ewes have you slept with?" which sounds like the start of a bad joke about someone from New Zealand...

Finally a post in this foam that makes sense!

I have lived in a lot of places, and have evolved to using “folks” as my go to. Still toss out some y'alls and guys here and there, but try to go with folks.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Don't Be Fooled by The Retirement Lie
« Reply #156 on: May 03, 2022, 06:47:39 AM »
"How many you's have you slept with?" sounds the same as "How many ewes have you slept with?" which sounds like the start of a bad joke about someone from New Zealand...

Finally a post in this foam that makes sense!

I have lived in a lot of places, and have evolved to using “folks” as my go to. Still toss out some y'alls and guys here and there, but try to go with folks.

Unfortunately, calling certain people “folks” will get you killed.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folk_Nation]many you's have you slept with?" sounds the same as "How many ewes have you slept with?" which sounds like the start of a bad joke about someone from New Zealand...
[/quote]

Finally a post in this foam that makes sense!

I have lived in a lot of places, and have evolved to using “folks” as my go to. Still toss out some y'alls and guys here and there, but try to go with folks.
[/quote]

Unfortunately, calling certain people “folks” will get you killed.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folk_Nation

shureShote

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Re: Don't Be Fooled by The Retirement Lie
« Reply #157 on: May 03, 2022, 06:58:13 AM »

Unfortunately, calling certain people “folks” will get you killed.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folk_Nation

Better killed than canceled….

Edited to fix messed up tags
« Last Edit: May 03, 2022, 06:38:30 PM by shureShote »

maizefolk

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Re: Don't Be Fooled by The Retirement Lie
« Reply #158 on: May 03, 2022, 07:00:31 AM »
The wikipedia article you linked to describes two rival gang alliances, one called "Folk Nation" the other "People Nation".

Is it also your view that calling certain people "people" would get a person killed?

nereo

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Re: Don't Be Fooled by The Retirement Lie
« Reply #159 on: May 03, 2022, 07:03:24 AM »

Better killed than canceled….
huh??

spartana

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Re: Don't Be Fooled by The Retirement Lie
« Reply #160 on: May 03, 2022, 12:56:17 PM »
Yeah, if you believe "dude" is truly gender neutral, ask a straight male dude how many dudes he's slept with. Then you'll find out just how not neutral "dude" actually is.
LOL true. In reality I generally use they/their/s unless I know the preferred gendered pronoun the person uses. Never had an issue with it myself but can see how it can be confusing.

"How many y'all's slept with?"
"How many you's have you slept with?"
"How many they's have you slept wiht?"

I think any pronoun in this sentence sounds weird, so putting dude in it doesn't really prove much.
Hmmm... Guess dudes, duderinos, dudeness, dudetude, and My Dudes pronouns (ALA the Big Lebroski) wouldnt work either.  I really only use their/they etc to replace him/ her and he/she. Still not ideal but it sort of works. I do use "guys" a lot as a gender neutral group name (you guys, youse guys, all y'all guys) but wouldn't use "gals" to do the same.  Usually can replace that with "people" or if old, "peeps".

ETA: I couldn't read the original article so just chiming in to add nothing about the article about the Retirement Lie. Im pretty sure I'd disagree with it anyways ;-).
« Last Edit: May 03, 2022, 01:02:47 PM by spartana »