Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

That's the obligation my parents are trying to put onto me: acting as a trustee for my brother's portion and taking over their lifelong role of babysitter for an abusive, alcoholic jerk who has physically assaulted me several times and made a credible e-mail threat to shoot me. My parents are classic enablers and don't consider this to be a problem.

So say no. 

You're not obligated to trustee their estate for them.  Tell them you'll give him his portion up front and be done, or give him nothing ever, or they can find someone else to do it. 

If they want a trustee to enforce conditions, every law firm will happily assume that duty for the right price.  You shouldn't be expected to do it for free.

I've said no, however I obviously can't control what other people put in their will. The fact I live in a different country will make it impossible to carry out the instructions even if I were willing. They don't seem to understand the difference between an executor and a trust administrator. I'm willing to be the executor if it's absolutely necessary (and would prefer that they pay somebody else to do it because of the logistics problem), but ongoing administration is out of the question.

[Frankies Girl]

That's the obligation my parents are trying to put onto me: acting as a trustee for my brother's portion and taking over their lifelong role of babysitter for an abusive, alcoholic jerk who has physically assaulted me several times and made a credible e-mail threat to shoot me. My parents are classic enablers and don't consider this to be a problem.

So say no. 

You're not obligated to trustee their estate for them.  Tell them you'll give him his portion up front and be done, or give him nothing ever, or they can find someone else to do it. 

If they want a trustee to enforce conditions, every law firm will happily assume that duty for the right price.  You shouldn't be expected to do it for free.

I've said no, however I obviously can't control what other people put in their will. The fact I live in a different country will make it impossible to carry out the instructions even if I were willing. They don't seem to understand the difference between an executor and a trust administrator. I'm willing to be the executor if it's absolutely necessary (and would prefer that they pay somebody else to do it because of the logistics problem), but ongoing administration is out of the question.

Even if they insist on naming you as the trustee, you can still say no. If you are the executor, then you can probably name someone else like the estate lawyer to be the trustee (or at least ask them what to do since you're not going to do it) and whomever is appointed will also be able to charge an admin fee to do so against the brother's trust. But you definitely do not have to do it if you don't want to.

[pdxbator]

Last year my aunt died. I was close to her growing up as we lived in the same city and because she was single my dad (her brother) did a lot of things for her. She was a bit of trust funder, and though she wasn't exactly mustachian she also wasn't wild. She left my aunt, uncle, my sister, brother, me and another cousin a couple hundred thousand each. It was quite a great surprise. I didn't expect anything at all.

The problem wasn't with family in this scenario. It was her lawyer. A couple weeks prior to her death she changed her will to give a couple hundred thousand to a charity that the lawyer was involved with and no one knew she had any interest in. The lawyer was also appointed the person to take care of the estate. He was the one who had to sell the stocks, the house, etc. The lawyer could charge each hour for this and wound up billing the estate at least 200K. It sounded all super shady, but in my mind what can you really do other than throw money at more lawyers.

Well, that's what my other aunt, her sister, decided to do. She hired a lawyer to take this other lawyer to court. I didn't want to spend money on this. My aunt probably wound up spending at least 30K on her lawyer, or more. There were several hearings, lots of billable hours for lawyers etc. The judgement came.

Nada. The judge ruled that the lawyer was within his rights to do all this. My aunt spent tons of money that she actually could use as she's not wealthy and as far as I know has very little to live on. In addition, the judge ruled the lawyer could then charge the estate an additional 40K for the hours needed to defend himself. In the end I wound up having to pay for part of this case anyhow because that 40K came from the entire estate.

Lesson learned - lawyers are expensive.

[notquitefrugal]

General observation from practicing law in a small town for almost a decade: A very high proportion of elderly couples who don't have children are wealthy.

[sol]

General observation from practicing law in a small town for almost a decade: A very high proportion of elderly couples who don't have children are wealthy.

Slight modification:  a very high proportion of elderly couples with no children (who retire to small towns and can afford lawyers) are wealthy.

[G-dog]

General observation from practicing law in a small town for almost a decade: A very high proportion of elderly couples who don't have children are wealthy.

Slight modification:  a very high proportion of elderly couples with no children (who retire to small towns and can afford lawyers) are wealthy.

LOL

[Geostache]

No inheritance story yet, per se. However, I suspect there will be when the time comes.

Back story: My maternal grandparents were very Mustachian, due to my Grand Father's (GF) sense of reason. He passed 11 years ago. My Grandmother is getting up in age, and keeps her son (my mother's brother) on adult welfare. To the tune of 10's of k per year. I've tried to talk to her about it, but whatever. It's her money. Now because G'ma is getting up in age, she's starting to get a little dementia. She's said some things that have made me say "what in the world are you talking about?" One of the things she has told me is that uncle told her he should have gotten half of my GF's money when he passed. I don't know if that was the dementia talking or not, but I would easily believe him saying something like that.

My Grandmother has made me executor of her will, and manager of my mother's trust (she has a mental illness and due to medicaid restrictions, cannot have many assets in order to qualify for help on her very expensive medicine). I was at one point manager of the trust set up for uncle. I told my grandmother that if she does that, I will immediately sign over his money to him anyway, since I knew that I would get harassed until I did. Grandmother changed the will. I have no idea what is happening with his money after she passes, although as executor, I know I'll find out when the time comes.

tl;dr: GF passed, partial-dementia grandma has son (my uncle) on adult life support, claims uncle wanted half of his father's money when he passed. I refused to be manager of uncle's trust, because I know he'd harass me until he got his money.

*edited for clarity.

[Ashyukun]

I don't expect there to be too much in the way of inheritance drama with my family- there was the potential for it though but I think that is mostly defused now.

My maternal grandparents had two children: my Mom and her brother (my Uncle, of course). Uncle came back from Vietnam pretty messed up (was arrested upon entering the country for bringing in drugs) and spent pretty much his entire adult life being at least in some way supported by his parents. My Mom has led a fairly good life and done her best to never take anything from my Grandparents except in the form of loans despite their best efforts to give she and my Dad money over the years (because of how much they've given my Uncle). I learned a ways back though that my (now late, quite unfortunately) Grandfather was ridiculously meticulous with money before his Alzheimers got bad and that he had kept track of everything that he had ever given my Uncle (and my Mom, but that came largely to zero)- and that he and my Grandmother's wills were written such that the remaining assets when both had died would be split evenly- and then amount given to my Uncle over the years would subtracted from his share of the inheritance (having effectively already received it) and given to my Mom. Both my Mom and Uncle were informed of this, and until recently I figured it would be a source of acrimony between my family and my Uncle.

However in recent years he finally (somewhat...) pulled his life together and has been living without their support (somewhat ironically due to his finally being given a full disability by the VA). There's also the matter that my Grandmother is now living in an assisted-living facility- and hopefully she will live long enough there for there to be very little left of the would-be inheritance to be of concern.

SWMBO's family though... THAT will probably be something of a train wreck on multiple levels...

[Hunny156]

Wow.  Glad to know I'm not the only one with a trainwreck on my hands, and so many similarities!  My parents are challenging folks to say the least, over the years, threats to take us out of the will for not following their rules was fairly common, and they also had lots of problems dealing with their families, starting raging wars over the slightest of grievances.  It got so bad that as a teen, I was working at a retail store, and I walked up to a customer and asked if she needed help.  Something in her voice triggered a memory, and while she browsed, I mentioned this to my co-workers, who were well versed in my family's craziness.  Long story short, it was my aunt.  Family dis-owning drama yielded an aunt and a niece who didn't even know they were speaking to family.

Oh, and my Mom, her name actually IS Grace, and she almost got kicked out of a nursing home for dislocating a fellow resident's finger.  See?  Lots of similarities!

So Dad passed away weeks after I got married, and shortly thereafter we began to notice that he was hiding a secret from us, Mom was suffering from dementia.  Still is actually, nearly 15 years later.  My parents were fairly frugal, and they managed to amass an estate worth roughly 1 million at my Dad's passing.  Some of that wealth disappeared as a result of the housing bubble, some as my Mom decided to enjoy life after his death with a shopping habit.  Whatever, her money.  What neither of them bothered to do was prepare for their eventual demise, so other than a basic will, nothing else was done.

My sibling shares many of the same negative traits my mother possesses, and has never fully grown up.  To this day, she still lives in the illegal apartment my dad created in the basement of their home.  My Mom has been living in a nursing home near me for the past 5 years, halfway across the country from this home.  We had moved away 6 months earlier, and during that time, my sibling neglected my mom so badly that adult protective services was called in.  She was thrilled to pieces when we agreed to bring her closer to us, so much so that she neglected to visit for the next three years.  She also didn't care to handle my Mom's finances, so I took care of it all, through a joint checking account which we all had access to.  Unfortunately, what I was not aware of at that time was that the sibling found a shady lawyer, and used $15K of my parents money to pay for said lawyer.  The lawyer placed my Mom's cash into a trust.  A revocable trust, in my siblings name.  I was shocked when a few years ago, she ran low on cash and revoked the trust, profiting to the tune of 130K.  My Mom's care was being covered by renting out the main portion of her home, and my sibling decided to leave Mom high and dry, and began taking that income as well.  Oh, and the icing on that shitty cake was when the sibling befriended a crappy lawyer, who proceeded to call me at work and forbid me from contacting my sibling.  I laughed and warned him that my sibling would neither sleep with him, nor pay him for his legal services, which he quickly figured out on his own.  He sent a FedEx to my home a few weeks later, demanding an accounting of my Mom's finances for the past few years (hello, your client has access to the bank acct, it's all there!), which he didn't even send signature required, so there is no proof I ever received this demand, and nothing further came of it once he figured out my sibling is a professional mooch.

I took what little cash was left in the overflow savings account and pre-paid my Mom's final expenses, and handed the rest over to the nursing home administrator, as a cushion should my sibling continue to steal my Mom's rental income. These were not fun times, made worse when the funeral director called me, b/c my sibling was hounding him, demanding a refund of the money I sent him, b/c she was crying poverty.  I was at a mental breaking point, so hubby stepped in and set the funeral director straight.  He was welcome to refund the money to me, since I signed the contract and the check, and we would take the money to another funeral home.  That solved that problem.  Then the nursing home administrator (more like a small group home) contacted my sibling and explained that she would be returning my mother to her rightful home in her RV, unless the payments continue.  Of course we were never going to make good on that threat, but we knew my sibling didn't want any responsibility of my Mom, so she has been covering the cost out of my Mom's rental income.  What she has done with the trust money, don't know and don't care.

Of course, this is far from being a done deal.  My sibling is an entitled anti-mustachian, who has never been responsible for herself, and enjoys consumerism.  We haven't spoken in years, and the only asset left is the family home, which is owned jointly by the both of us, but with survivorship rights for my Mom.  So the asset can not be touched until she passes.  Every so often I check the title and tax records on the home, to make sure she is at least covering the taxes, and that the title hasn't somehow changed hands without my signature.  I have no doubt that if she could find a way to do that, she would in a heartbeat.

I can only imagine how my mom's final services will be, and the fight that will occur over the home at her passing.  My goal is to simply ignore her during the wake and funeral, and hire a lawyer to handle the sale of the house, which I have no doubt she will fight.  Hubby thinks he can talk some sense into her, and advise her that it is best to complete this transaction as amicably as possible and go our separate ways, but I'm sure it won't be that simple.

It's a very sad way to terminate a family, as neither of us have procreated, and a rather ironic one at that.  We continued the same cycle of drama that my parents taught us w/regards to family our entire lives.  At the end of the day, if I get anything, great, it will speed up my FIRE date by about a year.  And I will have the satisfaction of knowing that a part of my parents sacrifices will not go to waste.  If I don't get anything, it won't impact my life much, but I know that my sibling will blow it all and be back to nothing in minimal time.  I hope it was worth it - seems like a really small amount of money to burn the bridge of the only family member who always looked the other way and helped her out when she was in trouble.  In the end though, my parents are ultimately responsible.  They were well aware of the evil and irresponsibility lurking in my sibling, and they chose not to do anything to protect themselves, or us, from dealing with this inevitable drama.  Hubby & I have already taken care of our final wishes, even down to the care of our pets, because we do not want to leave this type of mess behind to anyone else!

[chaskavitch]

My husband's grandfather was apparently quite the ladies man. My father in law (deceased) is his only child from his first wife (two kids - DH and his sister), there are two daughters and a grandson from the second wife, and the third wife had no children, but married him less than a year before he passed away. They both knew he was terminally ill when they got married, so nobody was exactly surprised that she was taken care of in his will.

He was also rich (possibly part of his appeal with the ladies?), and left his money in trust for his children and their offspring. The two catches are: they have to be 30 before the trust pays out, and the trust couldn't be disbursed until the third wife passed away, because she got to take her income from the trust. 

Thirty odd years later, third wife FINALLY passes away. The whole time I've been part of this family, second wife's daughters have been bad mouthing their step mother because she gets ALL of this money and they've been waiting for soooooo long (they're in their 60s now). Realistically, disbursement of the trust will be amazingly helpful, because the grandson from wife two (he's 42) is a quadriplegic on medicare, and my husband and I have been covering the costs for his legal assistance (~$1200/mo) finding better home care, getting rid of bed bugs in his sketchy apartment, etc, and being reimbursed by the trust. The reimbursement isn't possible now since the money is being disbursed eventually, and having a special needs trust for him would be a life and sanity saver. His mom is also on govt assistance because she's legally unable to manage her own finances due to mental issues.

The other sister is ruining everything, though. She emailed the whole trust committee and the siblings of third wife within a day of finding out about her death asking when things will be resolved, how much they'll all be getting, and whether or not they can have all the "pre-third wife family memorabilia" that she was never given before. I don't care if she wants memorabilia, that makes sense, but she is being so pushy and rude that the executor of the will and all of the trust lawyers have stopped talking to any of us. DH and I won't get anything yet because he is only 28, and it will just go into savings anyway, but she is ruining her nephew's chance to get into a stable, clean living situation, and it sucks so stinking bad. We honestly can't afford to keep paying his bills by ourselves, and we are the best off of all the family financially, so he is just going to be sink further and further into a decaying apartment and bad medical care.

[notquitefrugal]

General observation from practicing law in a small town for almost a decade: A very high proportion of elderly couples who don't have children are wealthy.

Slight modification:  a very high proportion of elderly couples with no children (who retire to small towns and can afford lawyers) are wealthy.

LOL... The ones who didn't have much came in to write wills, too. I think we charged $50 or $75 for a simple will for a single person. Wrote a will for an old Harley (condition unknown, but probably not worth much) to go to a grandkid who was underage at the time, to be held in trust until they turned 18. A terrible idea (and I asked questions which implied it was a terrible idea), but ultimately not my decision.

[paddedhat]

Friend of ours had a brother, serious ner-do-well, as in regularly vanished for months or a year or two at a time, heavy drug user, etc.  When his mother passed away, she left half to each of her children, with the proviso that our friend was supposed to manage the money for his brother, since the brother couldn't be trusted with it, unless the brother "got cleaned up".  It wasn't a lot of money, I think a few tens of thousands for each. 

The problem with this is that it puts an unending obligation on our friend to try to track down the brother, see what he needs, and how does he even decide if the brother got cleaned up?  Its a rather unfair thing to do to someone unless you have discussed it with them before hand (which didn't happen here) and they agree to accept the responsibility.  I also have no idea if it is even enforceable?

That's the obligation my parents are trying to put onto me: acting as a trustee for my brother's portion and taking over their lifelong role of babysitter for an abusive, alcoholic jerk who has physically assaulted me several times and made a credible e-mail threat to shoot me. My parents are classic enablers and don't consider this to be a problem.

I thought wills that set up trusts like this were supposed to have contingent trustees - in case first choice is unwilling or unable.  I seriously doubt you'd have to serve as trustee if you don't want to.

You do not have to get trapped in this mess. I posted my own personal, and long story, earlier on this thread.  My mother was very clear in repeatedly claiming that she expected me to continue the "family tradition" of being an enabler, provider and manager of the mess my sister had become. On every occasion I firmly told her to make other plans, as there was no way in hell it was going to happen. She ignored me, and spell out her wishes, in detail, in her will. She even went as far a switching estate lawyers, since ours is a family friend who would of refused to allow such delusional nonsense to be entered into a will.

 My Mother was a classic enabler, and completely self-deluded regarding my sister. Shortly before her death, she found a trust that had created an airtight way to protect assets willed to severely disabled children. My mother then misrepresented my sister's situation, and gained verbal assurance from the trust that they would take the money and provide social services and carefully directed distributions to keep everything legal. When my mom passed, our lawyer contacted the trust, gave then a very honest account of the potential client, and they flipped out. They stated that they did not agree to taking my sister unconditionally, and they had no prior knowledge of the substance abuse, DUI manslaughter, subsequent DUI, multiple rehabs, etc....Their mission was to do things like keeping Medicaid from claiming the assets, while they spent the money on things like additional rehab services, or other quality of life improvements for severely disabled or retarded adults, not getting involved in this enabling addicts with felony convictions.  Eventually, after artful persuasion from our lawyer, and a carefully worded agreement, they took the case. 

During that negotiation, I was obviously concerned that I might be trapped into managing my sisters affairs, but our lawyer was quite clear that I could still be the executor, and still divide the assets relatively quickly and easily, while removing that provision of the will. In the event that the trust would of refused to take my sister as a client, I would have to appear before the probate judge to seek relief from being the trustee. At that point, the judge would assign a local lawyer to the position, and that lawyer would be paid a reasonable, and ongoing fee to distribute the assets per the will and judges ruling.

Hopefully you can make your parents understand that you are NOT willing to accept the responsibility of being your brother's babysitter. Take the time to make it clear that you do not have to comply with any unreasonable directive of the will, and that the courts have a mechanism to place the unreasonable burden on a third party, if they insist on putting that nonsense in the will. Good luck, having abusive worthless siblings and enabling parents is a nasty combination. I hope it all works out for you.

[TomTX]

My family today is still involved in a tussle over my great-grandfather's property following his death in the mid-1960s.

Bis-abuelo left his wife and 4 living adult children in NYC to go back to the hillbilly farm in Puerto Rico, found another woman to take care of him, and fathered one last daughter.  Said farm was less than 10 acres, and a shack with no running water.  All 5 children inherited equally, but because of bad blood between first family and second family, and bad official record-keeping, legal status of property is screwed up beyond belief.  Youngest daughter, by virtue of being on the property, managed to replace shack with better but un-permitted house for herself, then second house (also without permits) for her son's family.  All original heirs are deceased, so now there are 2nd and 3rd generation heirs.  Tax liens from time to time because title was never properly transferred to 1st-generation heirs and notices delivered to property address, although taxes have been mostly paid by the 2nd/3rd heirs living in NY/NJ/CT/FL/HI. 

Every few years, the question of what to do with it flares up again.  Not an income property, no longer useful as farm, can't sell without agreement of all remaining heirs, and would have to tackle the C of O for the new houses, not to mention any liens, back taxes and re-survey -- all to happen within Puerto Rican bureaucracy.  My brother took about 6 months last year speaking with a local lawyer about the survey and getting taxes current again -- but the question of forcing out the descendant living on the property or suing them touched off another round of recriminations ("Mom/Dad/abuela would have wanted us to ..."). 

So, 50 years later, each heir is fighting over 1/10th share or less, while not having enough money to buy out anyone else's share and repair the legal deficiencies of the property.  I suppose they are all waiting for some mythical RE developer to hand them lottery-sized checks while picking up all the expenses, thus justifying the word "inheritance" but since it can't even be torched for profit and none of us are in the meth business, I think that relinquishing it all to the illegitimate grandson who lives on the property without compensation is worth the peace of mind.

My Mom periodically threatens to die just so that I, as her executor and oldest heir, can wade through this muck.

This is a situation to GTFO. Tell all the relatives that you'll be happy to sell your(her) share. Either pick a number ($5k) or tell them whoever offers the most gets it.

[TomTX]

So, onto my own family and my likely upcoming story.

When my maternal grandmother passed (my grandfather having passed 30 years prior): my uncle was the executor, showed all the records to my mom and everything was well documented and split 50/50. Grandma was in care, so all the furniture and such had long ago been divided up and he house sold. Proceeds went toward care.

My paternal grandfather died perhaps 5 years before my grandmother. My aunt made all sorts of shady deals (joint vacation home, grandma paying for all expenses for all sorts of things, and I know grandma paid for at least half the vacation home) - but did spend a lot of time with grandma. When grandma finally died, aunt is the executor. My dad never gets to see the actual will. Somehow the vacation home was 100% my aunt's, my aunt claims or tosses every physical object and file. All the genealogy tossed. Birth certificates, marriage license, etc. My dad is given a small sum from the estate but doesn't fight it.  Aunt has a pattern of buying an expensive house, remodeling it in stupid ways (replace perfect carpet with different carpet. Replace new granite counter tops with different granite counter tops,  still isn't happy and sells it. Repeat about every 2 years.

Lucky me, I'm the executor for my parents. Ugh. My sister has her shit together, my brother is a crazy, lying, abusive addict - alcohol, prescription pills, brief jail stays til he and his lawyer bullshit his way out, etc. Can be incredibly convincingly nice when he wants to. Has "borrowed" a shit ton of money from my parents. I've been told repeatedly it's supposed to come out of "his share" of the inheritance and where the listing of debts is. Which I have no doubt will cause a firestorm and lawsuit against the estate.

Thankfully, my parents have now changed all the accounts to payable-on-death to just my sister and I. Bypassing the will entirely. We're both on the safe deposit box too. About the only thing left of real value for the will is the house and personal effects - mounds and mounds of personal effects. I'm going to have to get several big commercial dumpsters dropped off for emptying out that house.... At least it's clean and the public areas are quite nice. Just don't open the door into the back room in the basement. Or go in the den. Or my dad's "walk in" closet. Newspapers, magazines, books, 50 slide carousels...

[Mormon Money Mustache]

This was a long time ago - sometime in the 60s. When my maternal grandmother died, there were 4 adult sibs including my mother who were equal inheritors. While 3 of them were at the funeral, the fourth, my aunt, cleaned out the house of anything of value including a player piano. I'm sure there were many items of greater value, but this is the one that always came up as the biggest outrage.

This caused a rift of about 20 years. Then somehow there was a reconciliation and my mother sent me out to visit that aunt in Minnesota. There was the player piano in her summer house.

Wow that is pretty sick.

[firelight]

I have a sibling that is super angry with the world all the time(27 and doesn't have a job but has two expensive degrees) and enabler parents. My dad keeps saying he'll split everything fairly in the will but hasn't written anything yet. I don't care if he never leaves me a cent (its all their money) but I just wish he writes the damn will down..... Just to avoid all kinds of drama with my sibling and other cousins. Reading these stories makes me anxious about future drama.

Also husband is of the idea that writing wills is tempting fate and wouldn't write his. I've written mine but not sure what will happen in case we need his (his is a bit complex situation). I'm tired of reasoning it out with him. How do you convince spouses to get their things in order?

[pancakes]

The only story in my own family is my grandmother who adjusted her will to pay back debts to other family members that one of her son's owed. Unfortunately he hadn't been completely honest with her about how much he owed my parents and as such their debt wasn't written into the will at all, not that there would have been enough money to cover it. This of course caused tensions between everyone involved. I think my parents' had been ok with the idea that it might never be paid back, up until they learned that everyone else had been repaid. More than being about money, it brought to the surface a whole lot of lies and deceptions that had been going on.

They've written the debt over to me and my siblings now (to be paid from my uncles estate) which seems to have been quite healing for them. I don't believe that we will ever be able to recover the money but as my siblings and I are not emotionally involved in the dispute, we are ok with that.

[Astatine]

Also husband is of the idea that writing wills is tempting fate and wouldn't write his. I've written mine but not sure what will happen in case we need his (his is a bit complex situation). I'm tired of reasoning it out with him. How do you convince spouses to get their things in order?

I'm of the view we will die regardless of whether we have a will or not. Nobody is immortal.  I see it as a gift of love to have a will. Dying without a will leaves loved ones with extra stress and heartbreak.

My DH originally went pale whenever I first mentioned wills (it was all about the thought of me dying). He eventually became comfortable with the idea after I kept gently talking about it for a few years.

[MayDay]

Friend of ours had a brother, serious ner-do-well, as in regularly vanished for months or a year or two at a time, heavy drug user, etc.  When his mother passed away, she left half to each of her children, with the proviso that our friend was supposed to manage the money for his brother, since the brother couldn't be trusted with it, unless the brother "got cleaned up".  It wasn't a lot of money, I think a few tens of thousands for each. 

The problem with this is that it puts an unending obligation on our friend to try to track down the brother, see what he needs, and how does he even decide if the brother got cleaned up?  Its a rather unfair thing to do to someone unless you have discussed it with them before hand (which didn't happen here) and they agree to accept the responsibility.  I also have no idea if it is even enforceable?

That's the obligation my parents are trying to put onto me: acting as a trustee for my brother's portion and taking over their lifelong role of babysitter for an abusive, alcoholic jerk who has physically assaulted me several times and made a credible e-mail threat to shoot me. My parents are classic enablers and don't consider this to be a problem.

Mil tried this on H (for his loser sister). He told her that if she put the money in a trust for her with specific rules like disbursement guidelines, etc, he could manage it. But he wasn't just going to babysit her. Naturally doing a trust was too much work/money so the whole thing was dropped.

[Daleth]

Friend of ours had a brother, serious ner-do-well, as in regularly vanished for months or a year or two at a time, heavy drug user, etc.  When his mother passed away, she left half to each of her children, with the proviso that our friend was supposed to manage the money for his brother, since the brother couldn't be trusted with it, unless the brother "got cleaned up".  It wasn't a lot of money, I think a few tens of thousands for each. 

The problem with this is that it puts an unending obligation on our friend to try to track down the brother, see what he needs, and how does he even decide if the brother got cleaned up?  Its a rather unfair thing to do to someone unless you have discussed it with them before hand (which didn't happen here) and they agree to accept the responsibility.  I also have no idea if it is even enforceable?

That's the obligation my parents are trying to put onto me: acting as a trustee for my brother's portion and taking over their lifelong role of babysitter for an abusive, alcoholic jerk who has physically assaulted me several times and made a credible e-mail threat to shoot me. My parents are classic enablers and don't consider this to be a problem.

It is enforceable if it's drafted right (put the money in a trust, make one sibling trustee for the other). I agree, having seen it in my family, that's it's a terrible job for the trustee sibling to have--all the more so because the will & trust almost never specifies that they should get paid anything for the work!

My advice: if you need to put money in trust for one child, appoint a financial institution as the trustee. Yes, it costs money, but it makes life so much easier for the other siblings.

[RetiredAt63]

Also husband is of the idea that writing wills is tempting fate and wouldn't write his. I've written mine but not sure what will happen in case we need his (his is a bit complex situation). I'm tired of reasoning it out with him. How do you convince spouses to get their things in order?

Would it help to point out that he has a will already?  It is whatever his state/province says happens to his estate when he dies intestate.  If he is happy with the standard provisions, and OK with some judicially appointed executor, fine.  If not, he needs to change his will (i.e. replace the state's provisions with his own) and executor to reflect his wishes.

[sol]

it's a terrible job for the trustee sibling to have--all the more so because the will & trust almost never specifies that they should get paid anything for the work!

If we die before our children are 18, our assets go to a trust for their care.  Our will specifies who will care for the kids, and it certainly spells out "all reasonable" expenses to the trustee for the trouble of taking them in.

The common problem with trust documents seems to be the exact opposite of what you've identified.  It's not that trustees get saddled with work and no pay for it, it's that trustees get to drain too much of the trust funds for themselves because the definition of "reasonable and appropriate" expenses for the trustee is so easy to manipulate. 

In cases where the trustee is the beneficiary, that's not a problem.  But in the case of a trust like ours that is set up to care for our kids, I'm pretty confident the trustee/godparent is going to immediately spend down our assets on a fancy car and a new home and justify it as "necessary" because now she has these extra kids.  If my wife and I both die, I'm sure my kids will live in a very fancy house for the next few years and then be penniless and on their own at age 18.

[onlykelsey]

If my wife and I both die, I'm sure my kids will live in a very fancy house for the next few years and then be penniless and on their own at age 18.

You need better friends! 

[southern granny]

This just happened to friends of mine.  Elderly father decided to remarry about a year after being widowed.  They both had grown children.  They drew up wills and did a prenup.  So all the children were okay with it.  They were married about three years when he passed away.  Big surprise.  He had cancelled the prenup and redid the will between the time of the marriage and his death.   She was getting everything.  The children threatened to sue based on the fact that he had been diagnosed with some level of dementia around the time that all this happened.  So his children are getting something, but not nearly what they had expected.  Most of the money has been hidden away and the rest tied up in a new house they bought two months before he died.  She knew what she was doing.

[hapstermeister]

When my dad's mom slipped and fell into a coma in the old country, my dad immediately booked a ticket and flew over. Before flying out, he tried to get in contact with his sister who lived an hour away from us. She went completely AWOL. My dad even called the local police 'cause he was worried she was missing for some awful reason. Nope, she disappeared by choice and only showed up at the hospital weeks later after she 'finally checked her messages' and found out that the plug was going to be pulled. I wasn't told the specifics but arguments regarding the inheritance ensured and my dad was so pissed that he gladly gave up all his inheritance in exchange for eternal peace and quiet from his sister (they have a complicated history). My mom was so happy :)

[Travis]

Also husband is of the idea that writing wills is tempting fate and wouldn't write his. I've written mine but not sure what will happen in case we need his (his is a bit complex situation). I'm tired of reasoning it out with him. How do you convince spouses to get their things in order?

Would it help to point out that he has a will already?  It is whatever his state/province says happens to his estate when he dies intestate.  If he is happy with the standard provisions, and OK with some judicially appointed executor, fine.  If not, he needs to change his will (i.e. replace the state's provisions with his own) and executor to reflect his wishes.

Ask your husband why he spends money on insurance if being prepared is just "tempting fate."

[Taran Wanderer]

If my wife and I both die, I'm sure my kids will live in a very fancy house for the next few years and then be penniless and on their own at age 18.

You need better friends!

In our will, our kids go to DW's sibling and the trustee is my sibling. When we told DW's sibling and spouse about the trustee, they were upset. Then I said that between net worth and life insurance our estate would be well into seven figures, and we felt that having extra eyes on it would be reasonable. We also put very few restrictions on the trustee, so between them they could figure out if a bigger house and bigger car made sense to buy with out estate. There is risk, of course, but if they work together as a team, it should be okay. And they are all gainfully employed, which is a plus.

If the will ever gets used for this, I'll try to post something here, but I can't promise anything....

[mxt0133]

it's a terrible job for the trustee sibling to have--all the more so because the will & trust almost never specifies that they should get paid anything for the work!

If we die before our children are 18, our assets go to a trust for their care.  Our will specifies who will care for the kids, and it certainly spells out "all reasonable" expenses to the trustee for the trouble of taking them in.

The common problem with trust documents seems to be the exact opposite of what you've identified.  It's not that trustees get saddled with work and no pay for it, it's that trustees get to drain too much of the trust funds for themselves because the definition of "reasonable and appropriate" expenses for the trustee is so easy to manipulate. 

In cases where the trustee is the beneficiary, that's not a problem.  But in the case of a trust like ours that is set up to care for our kids, I'm pretty confident the trustee/godparent is going to immediately spend down our assets on a fancy car and a new home and justify it as "necessary" because now she has these extra kids.  If my wife and I both die, I'm sure my kids will live in a very fancy house for the next few years and then be penniless and on their own at age 18.

In scenarios like this, one way to address it is to separate the guardian of the minors to the trustee of the trust.  In my case I chose guardians that I feel will be better suited to take care of my children emotionally and choose a trustee that aligns more with my financial values.  I trust both unconditionally also which helps me sleep better at night.

This might create a little tension separating the guardians and the trustee but I feel that having two parties involves helps keep accountability.

[Taran Wanderer]

That was our situation.

[iamlittlehedgehog]

This thread is glorious. I hope there will be more posts soon.

I don't have any juicy inheritance stories. My Mom Mom (grandmother) passed December '14 and left money and items to her 3 children and 2 grandkids (my sister and I). For some reason my uncle was very concerned that I would be offended that my sister got more money than I did, by about 10k. My mom told us separately and we both shrugged. My sister was the golden child and has kids of her own, it only makes sense that she got more.

[Capsu78]

This thread is glorious. I hope there will be more posts soon.

I don't have any juicy inheritance stories. My Mom Mom (grandmother) passed December '14 and left money and items to her 3 children and 2 grandkids (my sister and I). For some reason my uncle was very concerned that I would be offended that my sister got more money than I did, by about 10k. My mom told us separately and we both shrugged. My sister was the golden child and has kids of her own, it only makes sense that she got more.

We have a small disparity between our daughters too- one has a small cash insurance policy and the other doesn't.  I informed the daughters to work it out, even if that included a fist fight out in the driveway... and I didn't ever want to hear about it again..to my face...or behind my back... or I would direct the entire estate here, and they could figure out which one it was in tribute to:  http://www.thedonkeysanctuary.org.uk/

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

If my wife and I both die, I'm sure my kids will live in a very fancy house for the next few years and then be penniless and on their own at age 18.

You need better friends!

You really do. Is there NO ONE else you could have be the trustee? I have my sister as guardian and some friends as backup guardians and my mom as trustee. (I totally trust the sister and the friends, but my mom is more used to handling large sums of money--she is already taking care of her father's substantial $$$, so she seemed like the natural choice.) My mom is old enough that I would not want to saddle her with a pair of young kids but she could definitely do the money part.

[LPeters]

We have a small disparity between our daughters too- one has a small cash insurance policy and the other doesn't.  I informed the daughters to work it out, even if that included a fist fight out in the driveway... and I didn't ever want to hear about it again..to my face...or behind my back... or I would direct the entire estate here, and they could figure out which one it was in tribute to:  http://www.thedonkeysanctuary.org.uk/

...I think I may love you, haha— what an elegant solution!

[money_bunny]

I have a very MMM Uncle. He's 83. Could drive a Benz or a BMW but has always driven Toyotas, lives pretty humbly. Casio watch, when he could have anything on his wrist he would like. He did have to get an anti-magnetic watch when he was in the Navy and still complains about having to "Waste" that much money on it in 1954-1955. Has picked up the spending a bit in his later years as he is off doing things he likes to do. Mostly because he is running out of time. If I am in my MID 80's and skiing I will count myself very lucky.

He's been a positive influence on me with spending even if sites like this did not exist. I actually feel that part of his and his partner's concern is that they see the accumulation phase and me being 36 and single and they think "No life, no partner." I'm not comfortable telling them about FIRE as he came from nothing. I also can see why they are concerned since without the FIRE concept I probably would have hoarded money. Which many people do.

I had a near death experience at the end of 2014. I was in a bad car crash with a truck and I walked away. I had a friend recently almost die in an accident and was in the ICU and then rehab for almost 2 months. I realized after that my Mother who does not approve of my MMM type lifestyle as she is very consumerist, and my other choices would have gotten everything. I'm not even sure that my "Weird" friends would have been contacted/invited for the funeral. I've been trying to figure out how to make sure one of two sets of my friends gets notified if I am incapacitated.

I also want someone to go in and get certain things out of my house before my family gets in there.

This is something to think about if you are single. How are you going to have your send off? If the rest of your family is consumerist, they may think that the best solution is to box you off in cardboard off to the crematorium ASAP so that more money is remaining for them. Imagine finding out 3-4 months later that a friend passed away when you "Ghost" out and then the Cell Phone, Facebook, Email, and other means of communication start bouncing.

After that I changed all the beneficiary forms to my two closest friends for the Vanguard accounts which have the Stache. If I pass away my Sister and BIL are then "only children" and there are two Long Island homes coming to them and 4 adults stuff coming to them. I also want my friends children, charities I care about that are not the charities my Mother or Sister cares about taken care of.

My Sister and I (and possibly based on the rules listed above my BIL) have been getting checks for the last 3-4 years at the 14K amount from my Uncle. For me they are going right into my Vanguard account and moving my FIRE date forward. They have a new Jeep Liberty "I got a great deal on it." and my BIL is running around in a leased Dodge Hemi truck for one person. They have huge personal parties, one of them was 3-3.5K for one night, and I missed my Sisters graduation party which probably was in the 1-2K range. 

I get to hear "Oh we can't afford to get a house..." so dual income, living with your in-laws (they are paying under-market rent). Having received enough money for 10% down and all closing costs...

[iamlittlehedgehog]

This thread is glorious. I hope there will be more posts soon.

I don't have any juicy inheritance stories. My Mom Mom (grandmother) passed December '14 and left money and items to her 3 children and 2 grandkids (my sister and I). For some reason my uncle was very concerned that I would be offended that my sister got more money than I did, by about 10k. My mom told us separately and we both shrugged. My sister was the golden child and has kids of her own, it only makes sense that she got more.

We have a small disparity between our daughters too- one has a small cash insurance policy and the other doesn't.  I informed the daughters to work it out, even if that included a fist fight out in the driveway... and I didn't ever want to hear about it again..to my face...or behind my back... or I would direct the entire estate here, and they could figure out which one it was in tribute to:  http://www.thedonkeysanctuary.org.uk/

I like your style! From what I see at least telling them ahead of time tends to sooth ruffled feathers before the inheritance is actually received. Family should be there for each other in the time of death - not having a slap fight over the fine china in the driveway.

[MM_MG]

In our will...

If the will ever gets used for this, I'll try to post something here, but I can't promise anything....

LOL!  I found the whole process of setting up a will and even life insurance a bit ironic.  By the time either gets "used" I will not care what happens. 

In scenarios like this, one way to address it is to separate the guardian of the minors to the trustee of the trust.  In my case I chose guardians that I feel will be better suited to take care of my children emotionally and choose a trustee that aligns more with my financial values.  I trust both unconditionally also which helps me sleep better at night.

This might create a little tension separating the guardians and the trustee but I feel that having two parties involves helps keep accountability.

Agreed. We recently completed our estate planning and separated the Guardian for the kids from the Trustee of the estate as well.  Guardian is best to raise the kids and the Trustee is frugal as can be.  Both are well of financially, so hopefully the estate will not be abused.  We also have the money going to a trust that can only be used for education and necessities until the kids reach age 35.  Sorry kids no free rides.  ;)

I enjoyed reading this thread.  Nothing to contribute other than I watched my side of the family fight over even items of little monetary value when my grandparents passed. 4/5 siblings acting rationally and the 5th could not help but act like a savage.  The remaining four still do not talk to the 5th after ~20+ years.  Sad really.  I expect nothing and hope both our parents spend every last dime before they die.  However, I am not sure the other siblings feel the same way.  Maybe someday I'll have more to contribute. 

[Capsu78]

We have a small disparity between our daughters too- one has a small cash insurance policy and the other doesn't.  I informed the daughters to work it out, even if that included a fist fight out in the driveway... and I didn't ever want to hear about it again..to my face...or behind my back... or I would direct the entire estate here, and they could figure out which one it was in tribute to:  http://www.thedonkeysanctuary.org.uk/

...I think I may love you, haha— what an elegant solution!

Funny thing is they got a pretty good laugh out of it when I told them...until I proved to them that the Donkey Sanctuary charity actually exists!  Then they said "...maybe Mom already has a stall purchased for you!"

[JoeBlow]

When my dad's mom slipped and fell into a coma in the old country, my dad immediately booked a ticket and flew over. Before flying out, he tried to get in contact with his sister who lived an hour away from us. She went completely AWOL. My dad even called the local police 'cause he was worried she was missing for some awful reason. Nope, she disappeared by choice and only showed up at the hospital weeks later after she 'finally checked her messages' and found out that the plug was going to be pulled. I wasn't told the specifics but arguments regarding the inheritance ensured and my dad was so pissed that he gladly gave up all his inheritance in exchange for eternal peace and quiet from his sister (they have a complicated history). My mom was so happy :)

I go backpacking for weeks at a time and am completely cutoff from cell service (battery & signal).  Not saying this is your sisters excuse but it is a legitimate excuse for some people.

[With This Herring]

Thank goodness I haven't seen this in my family, but these stories do provide good warning!

[AlanStache]

I am quite lucky in many ways: no family members have died in a very long time.  There was no real fighting after the last death.  Everyone in the family basically has there shit together-especially my grandparents w/ wills and I am  an only child so that should make it really easy in a hopefully very long time when my parent departs.

[SpeedReader]

When my MIL died, my SIL was the executor.  It was in the will that the assets would be split evenly between her three children.   

DH considered taking some of his parents’ furniture as part of his share.  As we had flown in for the funeral, he suggested driving MIL’s car home pulling a UHaul and selling the car for all to split proceeds once home.  SIL was adamant that all property had to be valuated first and the car was not to leave FL.  OK, except we learned she’d already offered the car to one of her daughters at well below market price.

I suggested that during the wake, friends of MIL should be allowed to select keepsakes from her large collection of fridge magnets and other decorative crap stuff the family didn’t want.  (Most of these items had been gifts from those same friends and had no cash value.)  SIL treated us to a monologue on how she needed to be alone in MIL’s house for at least a week, with every bit of stuff still in place, so she could “process” MIL’s death.  She wanted us all to go home and to come back two months later to distribute the personal property. (MIL lived in Florida; BIL was working in Japan and we live in Washington State.)  I gently pointed out that leaving the place unattended 2 months in that neighborhood would result in returning to a meth lab, and that DH was scheduled for spinal surgery at the time she was insisting on. 

DH wanted a mantel clock for sentimental reasons.  SIL declared that she was keeping it, as “I’m the executor.”  Later we learned she’d told her daughters that DH shouldn’t get any heirlooms because we don’t have children. 

She declared herself “the family matriarch”.  (This alone was enough to merit a facepunch, in my book.)

She prevented BIL and DH from dividing any small personal property items all week, until literally the day we were leaving for the airport.  Once home, she sent us a letter about how she was going to divide all residual monies equally as MIL had wished.  In the next letter she said that because her name was listed as joint owner on MIL’s bank accounts, her lawyer said she was legally the owner and didn’t have to split the money so she was keeping it.

No surprise, DH hasn’t spoken to her since.

[TheBuddha]

I can't get enough of this thread.

[browneyedgirl]

Okay, I had a bad October a while back. My father died with $70 to his name... and by the time I closed out his account (there's a thirty day waiting period) the bank had assesed $30 in fees. They stole my inheritance! :)
Ten days later my grandfather died. My father had been living with him, and it was really too much for him to handle. My aunt was always difficult her entire life, but she was truly distressing at both funerals. There are a lot of stories I could tell about stuff she took out of the house, but I will talk specifically about the family silver. I don't know how much there was. I don't know if it was good looking. All I know is that the day after my father's wake, my grandfather said he wanted to show it to me. He went to his hidey hole. It was gone. He'd mentioned it earlier in passing, so my aunt had taken it out and given it to her adult daughter who came to the wake to take back to her house in another state. Then when my grandfather died. My uncle called my aunt's kids and told them whoever came to that funeral had to bring the funeral back. He snagged it and sold it for melt value (undoubtedly what it was worth). He split the money with me (thank goodness, being out of town for a month is expensive!) but I still wonder what it looked like.

[Taran Wanderer]

When my MIL died, my SIL was the executor.  It was in the will that the assets would be split evenly between her three children......

......In the next letter she said that because her name was listed as joint owner on MIL’s bank accounts, her lawyer said she was legally the owner and didn’t have to split the money so she was keeping it.

No surprise, DH hasn’t spoken to her since.

I want to say something very awful about SIL, but I won't.  But really, what is wrong with these people?

[Lookilu]

When my MIL died, my SIL was the executor.  It was in the will that the assets would be split evenly between her three children.   

DH considered taking some of his parents’ furniture as part of his share.  As we had flown in for the funeral, he suggested driving MIL’s car home pulling a UHaul and selling the car for all to split proceeds once home.  SIL was adamant that all property had to be valuated first and the car was not to leave FL.  OK, except we learned she’d already offered the car to one of her daughters at well below market price.

I suggested that during the wake, friends of MIL should be allowed to select keepsakes from her large collection of fridge magnets and other decorative crap stuff the family didn’t want.  (Most of these items had been gifts from those same friends and had no cash value.)  SIL treated us to a monologue on how she needed to be alone in MIL’s house for at least a week, with every bit of stuff still in place, so she could “process” MIL’s death.  She wanted us all to go home and to come back two months later to distribute the personal property. (MIL lived in Florida; BIL was working in Japan and we live in Washington State.)  I gently pointed out that leaving the place unattended 2 months in that neighborhood would result in returning to a meth lab, and that DH was scheduled for spinal surgery at the time she was insisting on. 

DH wanted a mantel clock for sentimental reasons.  SIL declared that she was keeping it, as “I’m the executor.”  Later we learned she’d told her daughters that DH shouldn’t get any heirlooms because we don’t have children. 

She declared herself “the family matriarch”.  (This alone was enough to merit a facepunch, in my book.)

She prevented BIL and DH from dividing any small personal property items all week, until literally the day we were leaving for the airport.  Once home, she sent us a letter about how she was going to divide all residual monies equally as MIL had wished.  In the next letter she said that because her name was listed as joint owner on MIL’s bank accounts, her lawyer said she was legally the owner and didn’t have to split the money so she was keeping it.

No surprise, DH hasn’t spoken to her since.

Your SIL sounds like my two SILs, dear husband's sisters and co-executors of my in-laws' estate. Had they not sucked every last dollar out of my in-laws during their lives, that is. I visited MILs house on the day she died, within an hour of her death--she had been in in-home hospice care--and I was shocked to see that nearly every piece of furniture and bric-a-brac was already gone, taken to give to one or another of SILs' kids.

DH ended up taking nothing. No, that's not true. What we do have are the cremains of both MIL and FIL. SILs were so busy taking everything else that they left the carved wooden caskets containing the ashes on the floor, uncomfortably close to a pile of trash, for days. My husband's brother begged him to take Mom and Dad home before "the girls" threw them out. 
Neither of the girls has ever inquired as to the whereabouts of their parents.

[sol]

Reading through this thread with a careful eye, I'm wondering if some of you aren't related to each other without knowing it.

Party A says:  my good for nothing drug addict family member never lifted a finger to help their ailing parent, and then had the nerve to show up at the funeral and demand part of the estate?  We had to have the lawyers modify the trust documents so we wouldn't be on the hook for supporting those lowlifes.  We haven't spoken since.

Party B says:  my suck-up family member was always the golden child despite having way more money than all of the rest enough, but greed works in mysterious ways and before parent was even in the ground they had cleaned out the house of every trinket, frozen all of the accounts, and left us all with nothing.  We haven't spoken since.

Any chance these two parties are siblings?

[Capsu78]

Sol,
While the "law of big numbers" says that scenario is a pretty remote possibility, it would be an interesting premise to kick off a novel or screenplay.

[SpeedReader]

I want to say something very awful about SIL, but I won't.  But really, what is wrong with these people?
[/quote]

Taran Wanderer: Oh, please feel free to say it.  :-)

[SpeedReader]

My husband's brother begged him to take Mom and Dad home before "the girls" threw them out. 
Neither of the girls has ever inquired as to the whereabouts of their parents.
[/quote]

That is beyond awful.

[Taran Wanderer]

I want to say something very awful about SIL, but I won't.  But really, what is wrong with these people?

Taran Wanderer: Oh, please feel free to say it.  :-)
[/quote]

I can't do it. It involves an uncouth participle and an unsayable word that rhymes with an action from American football.