Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.

[Sydneystache]

An article below on common inheritance issues when dividing a holiday property.

https://www.domain.com.au/news/beach-house-blues-why-inheriting-property-can-cause-strife-among-families-20170411-gvilkx/

[BlueHouse]

I wrote a will today. Well, a draft. I'm going to sit on it for a while and check I haven't missed anything out. But I just wanted to say how much this thread had helped! It's a simple will, but I've put in what happens if we have children, if any of them are under eighteen, if any of them have died and have a surviving spouse or children (including children adopted under the age of sixteen!)... And I've kept it simple: sell everything and split the money. If anyone wants to buy anything, it's at full market value and counts as part of their share. If more than one person is interested in something, they have six months to come to an agreement about who it is or it gets sold by a third party and the money divided.

Your distribution scheme sounds like mine did.  Then someone pointed out that forced sale under my estate rather than letting property go to an heir could cost a lot in stepped-up cost basis. 
My attorney pointed out a few things that made things much simpler for me:
1.  I'm young and healthy.  I'm likely to write many more wills before I die.  So stop trying to account for every contingency, and just get on with it.  (don't try to figure out who gets what IF I have children or if A, B, and D, but not C predecease me.)
2.  I trust the person(s) I've named as executor.  Let them figure out whether to sell my personal property when the time comes. 

This advice made me stop worrying and let me just get on with things.  I'm covered.  My heirs are covered.  Is it perfect?  No, but it's good enough and it's done. 

[iris lily]

I wrote a will today. Well, a draft. I'm going to sit on it for a while and check I haven't missed anything out. But I just wanted to say how much this thread had helped! It's a simple will, but I've put in what happens if we have children, if any of them are under eighteen, if any of them have died and have a surviving spouse or children (including children adopted under the age of sixteen!)... And I've kept it simple: sell everything and split the money. If anyone wants to buy anything, it's at full market value and counts as part of their share. If more than one person is interested in something, they have six months to come to an agreement about who it is or it gets sold by a third party and the money divided.

I agree, having somethIng in place is much better than having nothing.

We are still slagging though the mechanics of "populating our trust" and it taught me to c solid aye accounts. We have too many fooking financial instruments. Ugh.
Your distribution scheme sounds like mine did.  Then someone pointed out that forced sale under my estate rather than letting property go to an heir could cost a lot in stepped-up cost basis. 
My attorney pointed out a few things that made things much simpler for me:
1.  I'm young and healthy.  I'm likely to write many more wills before I die.  So stop trying to account for every contingency, and just get on with it.  (don't try to figure out who gets what IF I have children or if A, B, and D, but not C predecease me.)
2.  I trust the person(s) I've named as executor.  Let them figure out whether to sell my personal property when the time comes. 

This advice made me stop worrying and let me just get on with things.  I'm covered.  My heirs are covered.  Is it perfect?  No, but it's good enough and it's done.

[SweetLife]

Latest in our inheritance drama ... 5 children inherited 20% each of a 200 acre farm .. some children (not this one) wanted to sell the farm ... finally strong-armed this one into selling WHILE I AM OUT OF THE FREAKING COUNTRY ... AND put the closing date 2 days after I come back so I have to go on the day I get back to Canada to pick up the rocks I want as well as anything else that I have fond memories of (they said there is only "junk" left there ...) They have no good memories of the place obviously.

Anyways ... now it is the drama with monies left in our joint account where the farmers $10,000/year rent went - one brother has decided it needs to stay there until sometime in August ... argh ... I just want this all done. Here comes capital gains :(

Sorry about the rant ... just pissy about this whole thing and sad.

[Spork]

Latest in our inheritance drama ... 5 children inherited 20% each of a 200 acre farm .. some children (not this one) wanted to sell the farm ... finally strong-armed this one into selling WHILE I AM OUT OF THE FREAKING COUNTRY ... AND put the closing date 2 days after I come back so I have to go on the day I get back to Canada to pick up the rocks I want as well as anything else that I have fond memories of (they said there is only "junk" left there ...) They have no good memories of the place obviously.

Anyways ... now it is the drama with monies left in our joint account where the farmers $10,000/year rent went - one brother has decided it needs to stay there until sometime in August ... argh ... I just want this all done. Here comes capital gains :(

Sorry about the rant ... just pissy about this whole thing and sad.

Strongarming you into selling really sucks... sorry.   But there may be logistical reasons to keep cash around.  My dad died a year and a half ago and there is still a reasonable amount of cash sitting in an estate-owned account.  Expenses can drag out for a long time.

[talltexan]

Sweetlife, your situation sounds like a mess. Hang in there!

Of course, when you said "rocks I want", I just assumed you have some extremely valuable jewelry somewhere on that farm.

[TomTX]

Sweetlife, your situation sounds like a mess. Hang in there!

Of course, when you said "rocks I want", I just assumed you have some extremely valuable jewelry somewhere on that farm.

I assumed cool looking pieces of granite or marble or whatever.

[Spork]

Sweetlife, your situation sounds like a mess. Hang in there!

Of course, when you said "rocks I want", I just assumed you have some extremely valuable jewelry somewhere on that farm.

I assumed cool looking pieces of granite or marble or whatever.

My wife is a rock hound.  I assumed very rock-looking rocks.  But rock-looking rocks that had emotional significance.  "The big rock by the barn" or "the slightly sparkly rock by the front door of the house I grew up in."

[talltexan]

I'm not fooled by the rocks that you got, you're still sweetlife, sweetlife from the block.

[protostache]

Protostache: I guess "free" goes a long, long way for some people. I've seen some people get unreasonably giddy about "free". Someone ought to remind BIL point blank that this sale is of FIL's things to fund the FIL's care and not to serve as a windfall for someone else. BIL may have zero social awareness beyond his own greed.

You could host the cousins in the future so that your kids have a relationship with their cousins. Try to minimize time with the rest of the flawed family.

BIL doesn't care. My wife has repeatedly pointed out that the money goes to FIL's care, but his retort (which makes a sick kind of sense) is that Medicaid is going to kick in at some point anyway so any money we raise this way doesn't matter and nobody else really wants much of anything so he should just get to take it all.

A sick little addendum: turns out BIL also asked the neighbor about taking back the very nice snowblower FIL gifted to him. Neighbor came around yesterday when BIL wasn't there and told us all about it, just to make sure it was still his! We wouldn't have ever known if the neighbor hadn't said anything.

Update

My wife and I and our 10 month old daughter went over to FIL's house for the last time today to supervise the auctioneer's picking up everything worth selling. Last night BIL started texting my wife about the paintings that were still there, and how they were going to get split, etc. Other BIL, SIL, and my wife all either picked out what they wanted or decided not to take anything, and BIL had plenty of opportunity to pick through them when he was loading up his two vans full of junk weeks ago, along with the at least two further occasions when he was in the house by himself.

This morning when we got there my wife generously took pictures of a few of the paintings so he could pick, but then he basically said "all of them". He wanted two for their house and one each for his three daughters that he could give them later in life "from Grandma" (they've already gotten things from Grandma after she passed. also they're very young and won't have any sentimental attachment). Well, the auction loaders got to working and suddenly all of the paintings were on the truck, except for two that my wife had hurriedly guessed at from his not very well expressed preference list.

My wife has preemptively instituted no-contact with BIL to avoid the inevitable fallout. It's not like he can't just go to the auction and buy the stupid things, they just want to get them for free. These aren't even particularly valuable paintings. They're just common Kincaid "paintings" (prints with hand-painted highlights). They're just being greedy.

Family, right? Ugh.

[G-dog]

I suspect BIL is never happy - he's always just missed some great deal, or got screwed over, or....

Not sure if that makes you feel better, or different. But at least you know there is no way to make him happy.

[Goldielocks]

IMO, I think that getting kincaid paintings would have been enough justice on BIL's head.

[rockstache]

IMO, I think that getting kincaid paintings would have been enough justice on BIL's head.

+1 I haaaaate them. My IL's have a house full and keep buying them as "investments."

[protostache]

IMO, I think that getting kincaid paintings would have been enough justice on BIL's head.

+1 I haaaaate them. My IL's have a house full and keep buying them as "investments."

That's basically the situation here. MIL bought them as "investments" but she could only afford the mass produced ones. They're worth about 10% of what she paid, if that. She was trying to do right by her kids and grandkids but basically just destroyed her pension lump sum payout between the paintings and the silver "investment" coins. BIL seems to have inherited that mentality.

I really don't like them either. We took one as a remembrance of MIL. It's actually a nice looking lighthouse instead of a cottage and my dad liked lighthouses but it's not hanging yet because the frame is a tacky "gold" thing and we haven't decided if we're going to spring to get it reframed or not.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

IMO, I think that getting kincaid paintings would have been enough justice on BIL's head.

+1 I haaaaate them. My IL's have a house full and keep buying them as "investments."

That's basically the situation here. MIL bought them as "investments" but she could only afford the mass produced ones. They're worth about 10% of what she paid, if that. She was trying to do right by her kids and grandkids but basically just destroyed her pension lump sum payout between the paintings and the silver "investment" coins. BIL seems to have inherited that mentality.

I really don't like them either. We took one as a remembrance of MIL. It's actually a nice looking lighthouse instead of a cottage and my dad liked lighthouses but it's not hanging yet because the frame is a tacky "gold" thing and we haven't decided if we're going to spring to get it reframed or not.

You can frame art cheaply by measuring the print (Kincades will be a standard size, never a danger about that) and going to a hobby shop such as Michael's. They have pre-made frames and matting to fit just about any standard picture size. I wouldn't spring for custom framing for anything but an original or a very nice piece of textile art that requires UV protection.

[paddedhat]

You can frame art cheaply by measuring the print (Kincades will be a standard size, never a danger about that) and going to a hobby shop such as Michael's. They have pre-made frames and matting to fit just about any standard picture size. I wouldn't spring for custom framing for anything but an original or a very nice piece of textile art that requires UV protection.

The funny part of dealing with that place is that you can indeed get really nice, ready to use standard frame/glass/mat combinations really cheap. Asking them to do custom work however, can be shocking. I needed to do a 17"x 23" antique blueprint.  I picked a nice looking cheap frame that was actually a faux wood finish on fiberboard. I had a coupon with a huge discount at 65% off. By the time the clerk got done adding, she quoted $330+ for a custom frame job. This was AFTER the discounts. So they were actually pricing the work at over a grand. I laughed and asked if she was serious? I then bought a very similar frame/glass/mat from their stock supply for $15. I spent another $15 on a mat cutter from Amazon, and ended up with a very nice piece of art for $30, or less than 3% of their bogus quote  (pre-discount) 

[SwordGuy]

IMO, I think that getting kincaid paintings would have been enough justice on BIL's head.

They really are that insipid.   

[Dicey]

Unless the frame is horribly gaudy, a can of spray paint should work wonders. Even if it is gaudy, I'd try spray painting it first.

Oh, I will never understand the Collectibles mentality. I truly believe that's part of why I've never found living a frugal lifestyle to be particularly difficult.

[Villanelle]

I friend with even basic woodworking tools could pretty easily make a decent frame for you, so you'd only need someone to cut a piece of glass, and then whatever mat you might want (which you can DIY with a cheap mat cutter).  Depending on your tastes, the frame could likely be made with molding purchased from home depot, or if you wanted something fancier you could buy from a frame shop or online.

I had never done woodworking of any kind before, and with about 15 minutes of instruction (and access to a wood working shop, which sadly I no longer have), I was able to make frames, cut glass, and mount everything and it looks just as good as whatever the kid at Michael's who probably had not more more training than my 15 minutes could do. 

[financialfreedomsloth]

I friend with even basic woodworking tools could pretty easily make a decent frame for you, so you'd only need someone to cut a piece of glass, and then whatever mat you might want (which you can DIY with a cheap mat cutter).  Depending on your tastes, the frame could likely be made with molding purchased from home depot, or if you wanted something fancier you could buy from a frame shop or online.

I had never done woodworking of any kind before, and with about 15 minutes of instruction (and access to a wood working shop, which sadly I no longer have), I was able to make frames, cut glass, and mount everything and it looks just as good as whatever the kid at Michael's who probably had not more more training than my 15 minutes could do.

Or get a standard size frame that is bigger than the non-standard size painting/photo you want framed. Buy a nice black or white (depending on the art) sheet of paper and us that as a background on which you put the painting/photo. Voila, your art is being displayed in a nice manner with the use of a cheap standard frame.

[mustachepungoeshere]

I loved my Mom very much... at her funeral our cousin came up to me and asked for a specific painting that my Mom had stored in the attic. AT THE FUNERAL...

I can't even remember my response. In the days after the funeral I told my brother what she's said. My brother said she did the same thing to my MOM at her Mother's (my Grandma's) funeral.

I don't care who is in that picture ... she isn't getting it.

Petty... yes I am.

I had a bit to catch up on in this thread but this is very familiar!

A lady came up to me at my grandfather-in-law's funeral and started talking about a certain picture from the GIL's house.

"I know he would want me to have it," she said.

Pffft, nope.

And who lays claim to items when the deceased's spouse is still alive and living in the family home? The estate won't be divided until we lose GMIL, but she's still going strong at 92.

[UKMustache]

I loved my Mom very much... at her funeral our cousin came up to me and asked for a specific painting that my Mom had stored in the attic. AT THE FUNERAL...

I can't even remember my response. In the days after the funeral I told my brother what she's said. My brother said she did the same thing to my MOM at her Mother's (my Grandma's) funeral.

I don't care who is in that picture ... she isn't getting it.

Petty... yes I am.

I had a bit to catch up on in this thread but this is very familiar!

A lady came up to me at my grandfather-in-law's funeral and started talking about a certain picture from the GIL's house.

"I know he would want me to have it," she said.

Pffft, nope.

And who lays claim to items when the deceased's spouse is still alive and living in the family home? The estate won't be divided until we lose GMIL, but she's still going strong at 92.

Yup, people really are that awful.

When my grandmother in law died, a neighbor approached my wife at the funeral and made some of the rudest comments imaginable. 

First she addressed my wife by the wrong name, she wasn't even close.  I won't put the name on here but it was a similar mistake to calling someone Christine instead of Samantha. 
This in my eyes was proof she had never even spoken to my wife's grandmother, all she ever talked about was her wonderful granddaughter!

Second she asked what we would do with all the stuff, is there anyone else to inherit?
Well, erm.  We haven't even thought about this yet, thanks for your concern.

Third (and the point where my wife cut the conversation off) was whether she could buy the house at a preferential rate because she wouldn't need to involve an agent.
This is the most tactless thing I've ever heard, people told me about it afterwards and I was furious.  To give context, this bereavement left my wife with no close family while still in her twenties.
It's unfortunate I wasn't present, I'd have ejected her from the funeral on her ass.

[SweetLife]

Sweetlife, your situation sounds like a mess. Hang in there!

Of course, when you said "rocks I want", I just assumed you have some extremely valuable jewelry somewhere on that farm.

They are very cool looking ones actually ... the reason they are valuable to me is that my Mom use to love looking for "special looking" rocks and it is a memory I have from when I was very young and something we did together lol... So ... not valuable to anyone but me... there is also the foundation of a lovely barn that has some cool rocks in it that would look lovely in our garden. Sigh ... I know i'm weird lol... but that's part of my charm lol...

Here's my Mom at 65yrs old with a "prize" she found in the back bush ...

[SweetLife]

Sweetlife, your situation sounds like a mess. Hang in there!

Of course, when you said "rocks I want", I just assumed you have some extremely valuable jewelry somewhere on that farm.

I assumed cool looking pieces of granite or marble or whatever.

My wife is a rock hound.  I assumed very rock-looking rocks.  But rock-looking rocks that had emotional significance.  "The big rock by the barn" or "the slightly sparkly rock by the front door of the house I grew up in."

You got the idea Spork!!! I tried to post a picture but it didn't work :(

[SweetLife]

I loved my Mom very much... at her funeral our cousin came up to me and asked for a specific painting that my Mom had stored in the attic. AT THE FUNERAL...

I can't even remember my response. In the days after the funeral I told my brother what she's said. My brother said she did the same thing to my MOM at her Mother's (my Grandma's) funeral.

I don't care who is in that picture ... she isn't getting it.

Petty... yes I am.

I had a bit to catch up on in this thread but this is very familiar!

A lady came up to me at my grandfather-in-law's funeral and started talking about a certain picture from the GIL's house.

"I know he would want me to have it," she said.

Pffft, nope.

And who lays claim to items when the deceased's spouse is still alive and living in the family home? The estate won't be divided until we lose GMIL, but she's still going strong at 92.

Ha ha .... glad I am not the only one!!! :)

[SweetLife]

It's unfortunate I wasn't present, I'd have ejected her from the funeral on her ass.[/i]

Ooooooo ..... I thought of this .... ;)

[SweetLife]

Well ... it's done ... I received notice yesterday. I suppose someone should have told the real estate agent that not everyone was happy to have this property sold .... she sent out a "Congratulations on your sale" email... Well ... not I guess I can pay off every last one of my debts (Hurray) and put a significant amount to work for early retirement. 

thank you all for the responses ...

Just a clarification ... the estate has been closed for several years now ... this property was transferred to the 5 of us. So it is basically just a farm sale ... so really the only outstanding financial issues should be taxes and insurance on the property (I think?) Everything else should come out of the purchase price - real estate fees/lawyer fees, capital gains ... or maybe capital gains come off at tax time??

Anyways the money in that farm account should be divided within a week of the closing date ... which is 2 days after I get back from overseas... but enough time for me to gather the "jewels" before it is not longer part mine.

[aurora5]

My ex died, suicide, and left me his life insurance policy and his IRA. Unfortunately for me, in the state of Virginia, as his ex I could not inherit anything. You learn something new every day, right?

Moral of the story, be very aware of your state's inheritance laws and check your beneficiaries often. Maybe check your beneficiaries as often as you check your smoke detector batteries? Both are very important.

[markbike528CBX]

Beneficiaries of insurance and most likely at least half the IRA should be outside the probate (inheritance) scope.  Sorry to hear about the ex passing.  It's hard to deal with, even with people you've separated from.

[aurora5]

The Virginia law is clear that ex-spouses may not inherit anything.
http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title20/chapter6/section20-11
This Virginia law was new information for me.
It would be important to know for anyone living in Virginia who thought that an ex-spouses life insurance policy would help them with family expenses after death.

[former player]

The Virginia law is clear that ex-spouses may not inherit anything.
http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title20/chapter6/section20-11
This Virginia law was new information for me.
It would be important to know for anyone living in Virginia who thought that an ex-spouses life insurance policy would help them with family expenses after death.

It's pretty common that divorce ends the legal relationship so it also ends any property or legal interests that are contingent on that legal relationship.

I don't think there would be anything which would prevent an ex spouse from reinstating those rights after the divorce by making a new will or making a new nomination under an insurance policy stating the person X, who just happens to be their ex, is the beneficiary.

[AlanStache]

The Virginia law is clear that ex-spouses may not inherit anything.
http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title20/chapter6/section20-11
This Virginia law was new information for me.
It would be important to know for anyone living in Virginia who thought that an ex-spouses life insurance policy would help them with family expenses after death.

It's pretty common that divorce ends the legal relationship so it also ends any property or legal interests that are contingent on that legal relationship.

I don't think there would be anything which would prevent an ex spouse from reinstating those rights after the divorce by making a new will or making a new nomination under an insurance policy stating the person X, who just happens to be their ex, is the beneficiary.

So legally speaking you have to 'cycle the power' after a divorce to reset the device to its past state? 

[MgoSam]

The Virginia law is clear that ex-spouses may not inherit anything.
http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title20/chapter6/section20-11
This Virginia law was new information for me.
It would be important to know for anyone living in Virginia who thought that an ex-spouses life insurance policy would help them with family expenses after death.

It's pretty common that divorce ends the legal relationship so it also ends any property or legal interests that are contingent on that legal relationship.

I don't think there would be anything which would prevent an ex spouse from reinstating those rights after the divorce by making a new will or making a new nomination under an insurance policy stating the person X, who just happens to be their ex, is the beneficiary.

On a side note, depending on your state's laws your spouse and/or children may be able to claim a share of your estate regardless of what your will says, like even if you disinherit your spouse she/he could challenge it and would likely win.

[Daleth]

Turns out the only reason the whole family is coming is so they could bring two cars to haul away more stuff. Stuff that should be sold at auction for FIL's benefit. BIL also lied to my wife about my sister in law telling him it was ok. SIL is just as surprised and appalled as my wife.

Make a list of everything they took and its approximate value. Then if your FIL lives long enough that he needs to apply for Medicaid, you can give that list to Medicaid and let them go after your BIL... ha.

[Dicey]

I am considering the source (NYP), but what does this have to do with his father's being a 911 victim? This one makes no sense to me.

http://nypost.com/2017/06/11/fallen-911-firefighters-son-battling-with-aunts-over-inheritance/

[TaraB]

Wow binge-reading this whole thread today was...illuminating.

My parents divorced when I was a kid. Allegedly, there is a trust from my father's mother to which I am entitled a lot of money. But my mom is quite convinced that my father and his crazy sister spent all of it. At some point in the last 10 years, I decided it wasn't worth it to ever count this as a potential windfall or ever bother to try to go after it. I haven't spoken to my father in....17? 18? 19? years, so I am choosing to write this off as "not worth my time and effort and legal fees".

----------

On my mother's side, my great-grandfather was a shrewd businessman, and my grandfather also made a lot of smart decisions. My grandfather passed away in 2006 and my mom took over. My grandmother is still going and will be 90 this summer. There are a lot of complex pieces to this part of the family, and I've only ever gotten my mom's story. But my mom and her sister (D) do NOT get along because of money. My mom and her brother (C) also don't get along, mostly because of what C did to his now ex-wife.

D has one child (my cousin), C has 6, and I have a brother. So the family business is set up so I have a share with my brother, D's kid has a full share, and C's kids all have 1/6th of a share. (Mom, C and D each have a share. I don't know the %'s but you get the idea).

My grandparents generously offered to pay for me to go to college (same school as my grandfather). This set an interesting precedent of them having to pay for all subsequent grandkids going to college (4 or 5 in addition to me- I don't keep close tabs on my cousins admittedly).

There's potentially a LOT of money involved in this family if my grandmother ever passes away*. She's beat cancer multiple times. She's a tough lady, always looking to the next party. But unfortunately I believe C and some of his 6 kids strong-armed her into changing provisions of the life insurance so that it would benefit them (and go against my grandfather's wishes).

My entire family technically owns the family vacation house with the aforementioned split (the family business owns it). Recently my mom has mentioned liquidating that house once grandma passes, since grandma spends summers there but other than a weekend here or there, nobody else really uses it. This will prove to be the most difficult part, since the house is not particularly valuable but the LAND!! OH BOY! The location is pretty great. Of course D and C don't want to sell, but I don't want to co-own a house with them (and all my cousins) without grandma as neutral (ish) peacekeeper. (Thankfully no decisions have to be made anytime soon, but the more I read this thread, the more I'm thinking of relinquishing my thoughts of being "entitled to my share").

Family relations are so acrimonious already, and as I said, grandma is still alive. Luckily more than half of the estate is in easily transferable stocks, but what happens with that house will be rough.

Grandma also has tons of CRAP. I am thankful that I don't want her crap. I don't need her stuff to remember her, although when I visited her in April she wanted me to start thinking about the things of hers I might want.

And one last bit from this side of the family: my brother has recently been making...questionable decisions. My mom threatened to disinherit him, but instead she decided she's going to do what my grandmother is likely doing- OUTLIVE HIM!! MWAHAHAHA!

*No seriously. Not sure if it's just being stubborn, but mom and I are convinced she's never gonna die.

[Capsu78]

This article provides a strong breeze of wisdom to many of the stories contained up thread:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-you-might-want-to-disinherit-your-kids-2017-06-14

I just come to this thread for the disfunction :-)

[talltexan]

I love that: hire a third party, hand all the children a check.

Unfortunately, people tend to feel strangely about houses. I hear a lot of people who call in (to Dave Ramsey, for example) wanting to save the family home/farm and keep it in the family.

[paddedhat]

I love that: hire a third party, hand all the children a check.

Unfortunately, people tend to feel strangely about houses. I hear a lot of people who call in (to Dave Ramsey, for example) wanting to save the family home/farm and keep it in the family.

This can be an interesting dumpster fire to watch. I know a couple in their early seventies, that live in voluntary poverty, barely squeaking by,  simply because they refuse to give up the family farm. They live in an old, worn out RV, spending winters in a very low cost location in the south, and summers close to home, volunteering in a location where they get a free campsite, and utilities paid. They have a son who occupies the farmhouse, and covers expenses on the house, but doesn't come close to paying market rental rates for the place. The son has no interest in farming, the other kids feel the same, and have zero interest in the place. The old guy splits the costs,losses and theoretical profit with another local farmer who actually works the ground. One recent year, the old guy lost thousands after a bad crop.
 
This could all end tomorrow and the couple could be living in a nice, paid off, home, with plenty of money to live their lives out, but doing so would involve selling sacred ground. The second the old guy dies, his wife will dump it. If they both spent the next ten-twenty years suffering in voluntary poverty, and pass, the kids will have it on the market before the grass sprouts on mom and dad's cemetery plots.

[TomTX]

I love that: hire a third party, hand all the children a check.

Unfortunately, people tend to feel strangely about houses. I hear a lot of people who call in (to Dave Ramsey, for example) wanting to save the family home/farm and keep it in the family.

This can be an interesting dumpster fire to watch. I know a couple in their early seventies, that live in voluntary poverty, barely squeaking by,  simply because they refuse to give up the family farm. They live in an old, worn out RV, spending winters in a very low cost location in the south, and summers close to home, volunteering in a location where they get a free campsite, and utilities paid. They have a son who occupies the farmhouse, and covers expenses on the house, but doesn't come close to paying market rental rates for the place. The son has no interest in farming, the other kids feel the same, and have zero interest in the place. The old guy splits the costs,losses and theoretical profit with another local farmer who actually works the ground. One recent year, the old guy lost thousands after a bad crop.
 
This could all end tomorrow and the couple could be living in a nice, paid off, home, with plenty of money to live their lives out, but doing so would involve selling sacred ground. The second the old guy dies, his wife will dump it. If they both spent the next ten-twenty years suffering in voluntary poverty, and pass, the kids will have it on the market before the grass sprouts on mom and dad's cemetery plots.

Good for them. They should sell. It sounds like the whole arrangement is terrible for everyone except the son living there.

[LeRainDrop]

I love that: hire a third party, hand all the children a check.

Unfortunately, people tend to feel strangely about houses. I hear a lot of people who call in (to Dave Ramsey, for example) wanting to save the family home/farm and keep it in the family.

This can be an interesting dumpster fire to watch. I know a couple in their early seventies, that live in voluntary poverty, barely squeaking by,  simply because they refuse to give up the family farm. They live in an old, worn out RV, spending winters in a very low cost location in the south, and summers close to home, volunteering in a location where they get a free campsite, and utilities paid. They have a son who occupies the farmhouse, and covers expenses on the house, but doesn't come close to paying market rental rates for the place. The son has no interest in farming, the other kids feel the same, and have zero interest in the place. The old guy splits the costs,losses and theoretical profit with another local farmer who actually works the ground. One recent year, the old guy lost thousands after a bad crop.
 
This could all end tomorrow and the couple could be living in a nice, paid off, home, with plenty of money to live their lives out, but doing so would involve selling sacred ground. The second the old guy dies, his wife will dump it. If they both spent the next ten-twenty years suffering in voluntary poverty, and pass, the kids will have it on the market before the grass sprouts on mom and dad's cemetery plots.

Good for them. They should sell. It sounds like the whole arrangement is terrible for everyone except the son living there.

Oh man, paddedhat, it's very sad that the dad won't just get rid of it now and instead makes himself and his wife suffer.

[chrisgermany]

I have farmers in my family, trust me:
Farmers do not sell. It is in their DNA.

[SwordGuy]

My grandparents were farmers.   I suspect they were good ones as they (a) made it thru the depression with the farm still in their hands and (b) were always on the lookout for more farmland (which implies a surplus of cash).  My parents and my uncle invested in additional farmland with my grandparents way back when.

My uncle, who has been managing the farm remotely (the land is rented out to another family that actually does the farm work), explained that good farmland only comes on the market once a century, so if you want to buy it, you buy it when it's available.  (Or wait another 3 generations.)

[zolotiyeruki]

My grandparents were farmers.   I suspect they were good ones as they (a) made it thru the depression with the farm still in their hands and (b) were always on the lookout for more farmland (which implies a surplus of cash).  My parents and my uncle invested in additional farmland with my grandparents way back when.

My uncle, who has been managing the farm remotely (the land is rented out to another family that actually does the farm work), explained that good farmland only comes on the market once a century, so if you want to buy it, you buy it when it's available.  (Or wait another 3 generations.)

I wonder if the same is not true of ranchers...

[G-dog]

My grandparents were farmers.   I suspect they were good ones as they (a) made it thru the depression with the farm still in their hands and (b) were always on the lookout for more farmland (which implies a surplus of cash).  My parents and my uncle invested in additional farmland with my grandparents way back when.

My uncle, who has been managing the farm remotely (the land is rented out to another family that actually does the farm work), explained that good farmland only comes on the market once a century, so if you want to buy it, you buy it when it's available.  (Or wait another 3 generations.)

I wonder if the same is not true of ranchers...

I would guess that the same is true - land is the needed resource, limited, and rarely becomes available.  But I am just guessing.

[Rural]

I couldn't imagine selling land. It's definitely a "had to sell" sort of tragedy when it happens.

[Kitsune]

We maintain land that is currently owned by my in-laws and has been in the family for generations. Our house is built on a section of it (2 acres owned by us; 200-odd acres owned by my in laws). That land has been in the family since the early 1800s; we live in an area that bears the family name.

Honestly? We'd all, collectively, have to be utterly screwed to sell any of that land. Like. Work 2 jobs, never retire, work the land vs sell to a developer? No contest. None of us would sell.

There's something about land - either you get it or you don't. *shrugs* I read that story and I think, man, that poor old man, it must be heartbreaking seeing his kids not care.

[geekette]

Anyone want some land in central NC?  It was owned by my DH's great aunt and uncle (one child, who died with no heirs a year ago February).  There are a couple dozen distant relatives who now "own" it, and I'm sure they'd all like to find a buyer.  Pine trees and not much else! 

Not all land is worth holding, sadly.

[zolotiyeruki]

I live in NE Illinois, at the edge of the suburbs, so lots of farmland still around.  And lots of large tracts for sale.  Maybe it's only in certain areas that land is rarely sold?

[Rural]

I live in NE Illinois, at the edge of the suburbs, so lots of farmland still around.  And lots of large tracts for sale.  Maybe it's only in certain areas that land is rarely sold?

Unfortunately, urban sprawl too often leads to tax increases to the point that farms and other land are lost. Sometimes the authorities realize we all have to eat and that open space/ woodlands are good for humans and environment, and there the agricultural tax rates are manageable. Some places greed takes over. In many cases in the past, tax rates were frozen for the current owner but not for heirs, so once sprawl happened, all the farms went up on the block as a generation died out and the children couldn't pay the tax. I think (hope) this is less common than it was in the 80s.


But the people selling may not have a choice. Plus sometimes the next generation doesn't want it, as in the OP, but that's less common. Also, sometimes sprawl means heirs can sell for many tens of millions and buy twice the acreage of good land somewhere else with money to spare - I've seen that happen once. It's hard to put a price on the house your great-grandfather raised, but eventually sprawl makes it nearly impossible to do things like get or make agricultural deliveries in what has become a congested suburb.


Sorry. The closest city to here exhibits a lot of these symptoms, and I have to look at what's happening to the people who've been there for generations when we're forced to go there. Fortunately for us, there's still a good 70 mile buffer between us and the exurbs.