Author Topic: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.  (Read 1002389 times)

SwordGuy

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2400 on: March 10, 2021, 06:20:45 PM »
Does anyone else have any farm inheritance drama or stories?

Mom was one of 3 siblings, the middle one.   My parents and her brother bought a 2nd farm with her dad.   When her parents died the original farm was organized into a partnership with ownership split evenly 3 ways.  The 2nd farm was organized into a second partnership and split 50-50.

Brother was very business savvy plus he lived closest to the farm so he ran the businesses.   He found farm families in the area to farm the land in a sharecropping arrangement.   Those sharecropping arrangements have been running on a handshake basis for over 50 years with nary a problem.   That's pretty awesome.

My mom was the first of the 3 siblings to pass (my dad having passed away 5 years earlier), so I inherited her 1/3rd of the original farm and her 1/2 of the 2nd farm.    My uncle (her brother) knew what he was doing so I just left things as they were.   My uncle had taught his son (my cousin) the business and my cousin had taught his son so succession planning was in place.   

My uncle passed away about 2 years ago.   We're now in the process of changing the partnerships to a regular corporate form with a corporate manager instead.    We want to do that because as the number of partners increases, the harder it is to get in touch with everyone.  Plus, legally, if a partner agrees to something for the partnership the other partners just agreed to it to, whether they wanted to or not.   That's just a problem that is bound to happen eventually -- possibly within my generation after my uncle's wife and my aunt die.  :(   I want that liability locked down before 2 of my 6 cousins are in the partnership (and so do their brothers and sisters, so it's not just me).

I should be receiving a draft of the agreement to review within a week or so.    :)

Things that should be in it are options for first refusal among family members if someone wants to sell their share of the farm and how much the corporate manager can spend/commit to without owner approval.

So, happily, the only sad drama is that my uncle and my parents passed away.   We're hoping we can keep it that way.

I can honestly say I'm very happy to have disappointed those of you wanted horrible drama based on sordid behavior.  :)
Why do you want your money tied up in land you cannot sell?

Who said I can't sell it?   Or wouldn't be allowed to sell it?

Oh, maybe you don't understand the right of first refusal?   It does NOT mean "someone can say you can't sell the land". 

It means if you want to sell the land, the other members of the family have the option to purchase it first, before you can sell it outside the family.  If no one wants (or is able) to buy it on the terms offered, then the owner would be free to sell to anyone who wants to buy it at those terms.  That's all.   It's a way to avoid having to be in business with strangers, particularly strangers who are mega-corporations who most certainly won't have our interests at heart.

Obviously, it needs to be fair and balanced, so that it's easy to sell it for market value and other family members can't force you to offer it to them at a ridiculously low price. 

As for why I want some of my wealth tied up in that land, it makes me money every year.     It's an uncorrelated source of income that's independent of our stock and bond portfolio, our rental home portfolio, and our social security income.     

I doubt my share of the farm land sale would raise enough, especially after taxes, to purchase a stock portfolio that would provide the same level of income at the 4% rule.  I would lose the uncorrelated source of income too, thus increasing volatility in our income while we're FIRED. 

Plus, the current arrangement has served my uncle and aunt for 50+ years and I don't want to be a dick and rock the boat.   They're not only family, they're good family and I love them.


AMandM

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2401 on: March 10, 2021, 06:49:32 PM »
I can honestly say I'm very happy to have disappointed those of you wanted horrible drama based on sordid behavior.  :)

Even if it's technically out of place on this thread, I can honestly say I'm very happy to read about a proactive, amicable plan. :-)

racquetcat

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2402 on: March 10, 2021, 07:05:45 PM »
Does anyone else have any farm inheritance drama or stories?

Mom was one of 3 siblings, the middle one.   My parents and her brother bought a 2nd farm with her dad.   When her parents died the original farm was organized into a partnership with ownership split evenly 3 ways.  The 2nd farm was organized into a second partnership and split 50-50.

Brother was very business savvy plus he lived closest to the farm so he ran the businesses.   He found farm families in the area to farm the land in a sharecropping arrangement.   Those sharecropping arrangements have been running on a handshake basis for over 50 years with nary a problem.   That's pretty awesome.

My mom was the first of the 3 siblings to pass (my dad having passed away 5 years earlier), so I inherited her 1/3rd of the original farm and her 1/2 of the 2nd farm.    My uncle (her brother) knew what he was doing so I just left things as they were.   My uncle had taught his son (my cousin) the business and my cousin had taught his son so succession planning was in place.   

My uncle passed away about 2 years ago.   We're now in the process of changing the partnerships to a regular corporate form with a corporate manager instead.    We want to do that because as the number of partners increases, the harder it is to get in touch with everyone.  Plus, legally, if a partner agrees to something for the partnership the other partners just agreed to it to, whether they wanted to or not.   That's just a problem that is bound to happen eventually -- possibly within my generation after my uncle's wife and my aunt die.  :(   I want that liability locked down before 2 of my 6 cousins are in the partnership (and so do their brothers and sisters, so it's not just me).

I should be receiving a draft of the agreement to review within a week or so.    :)

Things that should be in it are options for first refusal among family members if someone wants to sell their share of the farm and how much the corporate manager can spend/commit to without owner approval.

So, happily, the only sad drama is that my uncle and my parents passed away.   We're hoping we can keep it that way.

I can honestly say I'm very happy to have disappointed those of you wanted horrible drama based on sordid behavior.  :)

That's great that the farm has stayed in the family, is making money, and there is no drama involved!

Those handshake deals always make me laugh! One example from my FIL is that he rents out some of his pasture to hunters every year. We asked him, "how do you find hunters that want to pay for the rights to hunt on it", his answer was "call Rick, but he's about 80 years old, doesn't hear well, only has a home phone, doesn't have an answering machine, and sometimes doesn't answer his phone at all, but he always has hunters lined up".

All the kids and in laws were just kind of stunned, like uh, ok, sure, we'll probably just put it on some website or something, but thanks.

talltexan

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2403 on: March 11, 2021, 06:39:42 AM »
I can honestly say I'm very happy to have disappointed those of you wanted horrible drama based on sordid behavior.  :)

Even if it's technically out of place on this thread, I can honestly say I'm very happy to read about a proactive, amicable plan. :-)

Credit to your family for keeping your better angels at the table.

Now we need to hear from some more train-wrecks!

former player

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2404 on: March 11, 2021, 08:12:06 AM »
Does anyone else have any farm inheritance drama or stories?

Mom was one of 3 siblings, the middle one.   My parents and her brother bought a 2nd farm with her dad.   When her parents died the original farm was organized into a partnership with ownership split evenly 3 ways.  The 2nd farm was organized into a second partnership and split 50-50.

Brother was very business savvy plus he lived closest to the farm so he ran the businesses.   He found farm families in the area to farm the land in a sharecropping arrangement.   Those sharecropping arrangements have been running on a handshake basis for over 50 years with nary a problem.   That's pretty awesome.

My mom was the first of the 3 siblings to pass (my dad having passed away 5 years earlier), so I inherited her 1/3rd of the original farm and her 1/2 of the 2nd farm.    My uncle (her brother) knew what he was doing so I just left things as they were.   My uncle had taught his son (my cousin) the business and my cousin had taught his son so succession planning was in place.   

My uncle passed away about 2 years ago.   We're now in the process of changing the partnerships to a regular corporate form with a corporate manager instead.    We want to do that because as the number of partners increases, the harder it is to get in touch with everyone.  Plus, legally, if a partner agrees to something for the partnership the other partners just agreed to it to, whether they wanted to or not.   That's just a problem that is bound to happen eventually -- possibly within my generation after my uncle's wife and my aunt die.  :(   I want that liability locked down before 2 of my 6 cousins are in the partnership (and so do their brothers and sisters, so it's not just me).

I should be receiving a draft of the agreement to review within a week or so.    :)

Things that should be in it are options for first refusal among family members if someone wants to sell their share of the farm and how much the corporate manager can spend/commit to without owner approval.

So, happily, the only sad drama is that my uncle and my parents passed away.   We're hoping we can keep it that way.

I can honestly say I'm very happy to have disappointed those of you wanted horrible drama based on sordid behavior.  :)

That's great that the farm has stayed in the family, is making money, and there is no drama involved!

Those handshake deals always make me laugh! One example from my FIL is that he rents out some of his pasture to hunters every year. We asked him, "how do you find hunters that want to pay for the rights to hunt on it", his answer was "call Rick, but he's about 80 years old, doesn't hear well, only has a home phone, doesn't have an answering machine, and sometimes doesn't answer his phone at all, but he always has hunters lined up".

All the kids and in laws were just kind of stunned, like uh, ok, sure, we'll probably just put it on some website or something, but thanks.
It sounds as though Rick is thoroughly plugged in to local society and has good paying clients lined up.  I'd be careful of passing that up in order to get who knows off the internet.  I certainly wouldn't do it without getting in touch with Rick first to see if he wanted to carry on - in a rural community that isn't a good look to starting managing a property.

iris lily

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2405 on: March 11, 2021, 08:44:59 AM »
I know a young couple who were living a life of luxury costing around $800,000 annually with houses, cars, and many luxurious perks automatically provided to them. They had a falling out with their family and are not currently speaking to key family members who control purse strings. The big family money has been cut off from them and the young couple have a paltry net worth of around $10-$15 million.

They sank $5 million into a $14 million home. They are counting on their ability to earn money through contracts In the entertainment industry and social media. They do have one contract for $3 million a year so that might see them through.

I donít know, I wouldnít buy that  expensive property with their smallish assets.Thatís probably Pete-level money at this point in Peteís life.

I guess if they wander into this website for financial help, we can ask them to post a case study.


zolotiyeruki

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2406 on: March 11, 2021, 08:57:07 AM »
I know a young couple who were living a life of luxury costing around $800,000 annually with houses, cars, and many luxurious perks....
Hehehe, I see what you did there! :)

RetiredAt63

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2407 on: March 11, 2021, 09:41:36 AM »
I know a young couple who were living a life of luxury costing around $800,000 annually with houses, cars, and many luxurious perks....
Hehehe, I see what you did there! :)

(Giggle)  Yeah.

talltexan

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2408 on: March 11, 2021, 11:22:15 AM »
I guess I'm astounded that the lifestyle of that couple was only $800,000 annually.

Catbert

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2409 on: March 11, 2021, 11:43:31 AM »
I know a young couple who were living a life of luxury costing around $800,000 annually with houses, cars, and many luxurious perks automatically provided to them. They had a falling out with their family and are not currently speaking to key family members who control purse strings. The big family money has been cut off from them and the young couple have a paltry net worth of around $10-$15 million.

They sank $5 million into a $14 million home. They are counting on their ability to earn money through contracts In the entertainment industry and social media. They do have one contract for $3 million a year so that might see them through.

I donít know, I wouldnít buy that  expensive property with their smallish assets.Thatís probably Pete-level money at this point in Peteís life.

I guess if they wander into this website for financial help, we can ask them to post a case study.

Has this young couple recently been interviewed by Oprah by any chance?
Biting the hand that feeds you is always a bad idea.

Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2410 on: March 11, 2021, 11:45:54 AM »
I know a young couple who were living a life of luxury costing around $800,000 annually with houses, cars, and many luxurious perks automatically provided to them. They had a falling out with their family and are not currently speaking to key family members who control purse strings. The big family money has been cut off from them and the young couple have a paltry net worth of around $10-$15 million.

They sank $5 million into a $14 million home. They are counting on their ability to earn money through contracts In the entertainment industry and social media. They do have one contract for $3 million a year so that might see them through.

I donít know, I wouldnít buy that  expensive property with their smallish assets. Thatís probably Pete-level money at this point in Peteís life.

I guess if they wander into this website for financial help, we can ask them to post a case study.
OTOH, I would bet most first-time buyers purchase homes far in excess of their net worth. However, the couple you know of have significantly higher Q Scores than your average home buyer.

iris lily

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2411 on: March 11, 2021, 11:53:09 AM »
I know a young couple who were living a life of luxury costing around $800,000 annually with houses, cars, and many luxurious perks automatically provided to them. They had a falling out with their family and are not currently speaking to key family members who control purse strings. The big family money has been cut off from them and the young couple have a paltry net worth of around $10-$15 million.

They sank $5 million into a $14 million home. They are counting on their ability to earn money through contracts In the entertainment industry and social media. They do have one contract for $3 million a year so that might see them through.

I donít know, I wouldnít buy that  expensive property with their smallish assets. Thatís probably Pete-level money at this point in Peteís life.

I guess if they wander into this website for financial help, we can ask them to post a case study.
OTOH, I would bet most first-time buyers purchase homes far in excess of their net worth. However, the couple you know of have significantly higher Q Scores than your average home buyer.
are you suggesting I dont personally know this young couple?

Hahahahaha

Villanelle

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2412 on: March 11, 2021, 01:18:40 PM »
I know a young couple who were living a life of luxury costing around $800,000 annually with houses, cars, and many luxurious perks automatically provided to them. They had a falling out with their family and are not currently speaking to key family members who control purse strings. The big family money has been cut off from them and the young couple have a paltry net worth of around $10-$15 million.

They sank $5 million into a $14 million home. They are counting on their ability to earn money through contracts In the entertainment industry and social media. They do have one contract for $3 million a year so that might see them through.

I donít know, I wouldnít buy that  expensive property with their smallish assets.Thatís probably Pete-level money at this point in Peteís life.

I guess if they wander into this website for financial help, we can ask them to post a case study.

Has this young couple recently been interviewed by Oprah by any chance?
Biting the hand that feeds you is always a bad idea.

Interesting, as I look at it more like a case study in what you can do when you have FU money.  That hand no longer feeds them, and they are going to be just fine.

Sibley

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2413 on: March 11, 2021, 01:25:14 PM »
I know a young couple who were living a life of luxury costing around $800,000 annually with houses, cars, and many luxurious perks automatically provided to them. They had a falling out with their family and are not currently speaking to key family members who control purse strings. The big family money has been cut off from them and the young couple have a paltry net worth of around $10-$15 million.

They sank $5 million into a $14 million home. They are counting on their ability to earn money through contracts In the entertainment industry and social media. They do have one contract for $3 million a year so that might see them through.

I donít know, I wouldnít buy that  expensive property with their smallish assets.Thatís probably Pete-level money at this point in Peteís life.

I guess if they wander into this website for financial help, we can ask them to post a case study.

Has this young couple recently been interviewed by Oprah by any chance?
Biting the hand that feeds you is always a bad idea.

Interesting, as I look at it more like a case study in what you can do when you have FU money.  That hand no longer feeds them, and they are going to be just fine.

And if the hand that feeds you is also abusing you, then I'd say that skipping out is a very good idea.

DadJokes

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2414 on: March 11, 2021, 01:28:26 PM »
I know a young couple who were living a life of luxury costing around $800,000 annually with houses, cars, and many luxurious perks automatically provided to them. They had a falling out with their family and are not currently speaking to key family members who control purse strings. The big family money has been cut off from them and the young couple have a paltry net worth of around $10-$15 million.

They sank $5 million into a $14 million home. They are counting on their ability to earn money through contracts In the entertainment industry and social media. They do have one contract for $3 million a year so that might see them through.

I donít know, I wouldnít buy that  expensive property with their smallish assets.Thatís probably Pete-level money at this point in Peteís life.

I guess if they wander into this website for financial help, we can ask them to post a case study.

Has this young couple recently been interviewed by Oprah by any chance?
Biting the hand that feeds you is always a bad idea.

Thanks for the hint. I was lost.

AlanStache

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2415 on: March 11, 2021, 02:03:54 PM »
I know a young couple who were living a life of luxury costing around $800,000 annually with houses, cars, and many luxurious perks automatically provided to them. They had a falling out with their family and are not currently speaking to key family members who control purse strings. The big family money has been cut off from them and the young couple have a paltry net worth of around $10-$15 million.

They sank $5 million into a $14 million home. They are counting on their ability to earn money through contracts In the entertainment industry and social media. They do have one contract for $3 million a year so that might see them through.

I donít know, I wouldnít buy that  expensive property with their smallish assets.Thatís probably Pete-level money at this point in Peteís life.

I guess if they wander into this website for financial help, we can ask them to post a case study.

Has this young couple recently been interviewed by Oprah by any chance?
Biting the hand that feeds you is always a bad idea.

Thanks for the hint. I was lost.
I was thinking it was a couple in the kardashian orbit.

Imma

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2416 on: March 11, 2021, 02:06:11 PM »
I know a young couple who were living a life of luxury costing around $800,000 annually with houses, cars, and many luxurious perks automatically provided to them. They had a falling out with their family and are not currently speaking to key family members who control purse strings. The big family money has been cut off from them and the young couple have a paltry net worth of around $10-$15 million.

They sank $5 million into a $14 million home. They are counting on their ability to earn money through contracts In the entertainment industry and social media. They do have one contract for $3 million a year so that might see them through.

I donít know, I wouldnít buy that  expensive property with their smallish assets.Thatís probably Pete-level money at this point in Peteís life.

I guess if they wander into this website for financial help, we can ask them to post a case study.

Has this young couple recently been interviewed by Oprah by any chance?
Biting the hand that feeds you is always a bad idea.

Interesting, as I look at it more like a case study in what you can do when you have FU money.  That hand no longer feeds them, and they are going to be just fine.

I'm sure they will be just fine, but their complete naivety is surprising. He served in the army, she didn't come from money.  How could his father have possibly cut him off financially when he quit working for the family business, at the age of 35 with a wife and a kid? Apparantly his family didn't even want his wife become part of the family business and suggested she keep her well-paid job...  Then all he had to live on was his £30 million inheritance from his mum and great grandma, so he had no choice but to start working with these entertainment companies. How else was he going to provide for his family?

I don't know what happened in that family, and he and his wife have every right to get out of the family firm if that's what they want to do, but they're going to need some time to adapt to the real world.


talltexan

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2417 on: March 11, 2021, 02:13:38 PM »
Counterpoint: giving the interview in which they see these things is part of the strategy for monetizing their fame since they do not have access to much of the family money anymore.

Just Joe

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2418 on: March 11, 2021, 03:23:46 PM »
I can honestly say I'm very happy to have disappointed those of you wanted horrible drama based on sordid behavior.  :)

Even if it's technically out of place on this thread, I can honestly say I'm very happy to read about a proactive, amicable plan. :-)

A few positive outcome stories sort of clean the palate before the drama stories begin again. :)

Seriously, I enjoy the positive outcome stories as much as the scandal stories.

Dave1442397

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2419 on: March 11, 2021, 06:56:27 PM »
The farm talk got me thinking about my Mother's family. My Grandfather owned a farm (small by US standards), and my mom was one of four kids. The youngest brother never moved out, and his wife moved in when he got married. After my grandparents died, there was never after thought of anyone but my Uncle inheriting the farm. I never thought about that until now, but I guess that's how it was done in that place and time (early '90s).

My Uncle worked smart, not hard. He took the EEC up on every harebrained scheme they had to balance production, so he got paid to not produce milk, not plant certain crops, not do anything he could possible avoid, in fact. By the time he officially retired at 65, he wasn't farming at all.

He still has the land, and one of my cousins got a couple of acres to build a house on, and I think he leases some land out to local farmers.

NorCal

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2420 on: March 11, 2021, 08:29:03 PM »
Does anyone else have any farm inheritance drama or stories?

I have some that I posted maybe ~40 pages back.  Here's the simplified version to keep it short.

  My grandfather had three kids and three pieces of property.  He had 2x cattle ranches in CA that are about 200 acres each and a house in the local city.  Instead of giving one property to each child, every property got split 3 ways.

  Now my mom lives in the house and her brothers live on a ranch of their own.  Since it's jointly owned, they all pay rent to each other and pay out ranch income.  I've never figured out how they allocate income since it's technically owned 1/3 each way, but each ranch has one person doing all the labor.  I know the ranches don't make much money. 

  About a decade ago, the family enters into a business deal to sell a conservation easement on a separate property owned by one brothers second wife.  No one ever told me the full story, but I know that somehow my mom now owns half of this new property and the new wife sued the other brother over the deal.  Being ranchers, no one ever talked about this.  They just stopped talking to each other.  Yet they still pay each other rent.

  I'm now set to inherit 1/6 of each property eventually.  I've talked to my mom about changing it so that me and my brother can inherit the house and our cousins can inherit the property that their parents live on.  Unfortunately my mom has zero interest in this.  She enjoys having a partial ownership stake in the ranch.

  I'm not sure what I'll do when I inherit this mess.  I have zero interest in owning a 1/6 stake in a ranch.  None of the other family members have the funds to buy anyone else out.  I also remain irrationally angry at one of my uncles over a property purchase I tried to make from the family (this is a different story).  Part of me wants to force a sale of something just to get out of it.  But I know this would destroy my relationship with all of my uncles and cousins.   

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2421 on: March 12, 2021, 04:38:04 AM »
Counterpoint: giving the interview in which they see these things is part of the strategy for monetizing their fame since they do not have access to much of the family money anymore.

I kind have a hard time to sympatize with someone that wants to be independent but then complains of daddy cutting of the money supply. Add to that they seem to be complaining about the media coverage and wanting to live a normal life but then go on Oprah to pump up the interest to further monetize their public personas.

 I have all sympathy to people that want out of the royal business. One of our princesses have chosen that route because she didnít like the publicity. She is living outside of the country and doing some limited public appearances with the family but is cut out of the public money. She is not out dishing shit about her family. In my book if you donít want to play the game, you donít. They, of all people, should be aware that they canít choose when to be private and when to be public. With the constant access to social media and phones on cameras, it doesnít work like that any longer.

SwordGuy

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2422 on: March 12, 2021, 04:52:18 AM »
Does anyone else have any farm inheritance drama or stories?

I have some that I posted maybe ~40 pages back.  Here's the simplified version to keep it short.

  My grandfather had three kids and three pieces of property.  He had 2x cattle ranches in CA that are about 200 acres each and a house in the local city.  Instead of giving one property to each child, every property got split 3 ways.

  Now my mom lives in the house and her brothers live on a ranch of their own.  Since it's jointly owned, they all pay rent to each other and pay out ranch income.  I've never figured out how they allocate income since it's technically owned 1/3 each way, but each ranch has one person doing all the labor.  I know the ranches don't make much money. 

  About a decade ago, the family enters into a business deal to sell a conservation easement on a separate property owned by one brothers second wife.  No one ever told me the full story, but I know that somehow my mom now owns half of this new property and the new wife sued the other brother over the deal.  Being ranchers, no one ever talked about this.  They just stopped talking to each other.  Yet they still pay each other rent.

  I'm now set to inherit 1/6 of each property eventually.  I've talked to my mom about changing it so that me and my brother can inherit the house and our cousins can inherit the property that their parents live on.  Unfortunately my mom has zero interest in this.  She enjoys having a partial ownership stake in the ranch.

  I'm not sure what I'll do when I inherit this mess.  I have zero interest in owning a 1/6 stake in a ranch.  None of the other family members have the funds to buy anyone else out.  I also remain irrationally angry at one of my uncles over a property purchase I tried to make from the family (this is a different story).  Part of me wants to force a sale of something just to get out of it.  But I know this would destroy my relationship with all of my uncles and cousins.

One of the reasons we want to do all this legal stuff is that people would not be inheriting partial ownership of LAND, they would be inheriting partial ownership of a corporation.   That way, no one can force anyone to sell.    They would be able to sell to outsiders as long as no family members would meet the price.    That way, they can get their money out if they want to.   At some point folks may decide it's better to sell the entire corporation to some mega-corporation because it's not worth the hassle.   Right now, my 1/3rd and 1/2 share is worth $20k to $25k a year.    (I budget for $20k in my income projections.)   

I was an only child.  My mom's siblings each had 3 kids, so their share would be 1/9th and 1/6th (or 1/9th and 0/6ths).   Two more generations and it won't be that much money per share.   Except in my branch of the family; my daughter will inherit the income rights but my son will inherit my share of the farm, so it will take another generation before my share gets diluted 3 ways (3 grandkids).

$6-8k is still solid money to help middle class folks jump-start their savings or their schooling.

When you get down to $1k or $2k, not so much.   At that point it probably won't be worth a family member's time to manage things for everyone else and it would make far more sense to sell.

As for me, I like having a source of income that's in the $20k to $25k range that's uncorrelated to stocks, bonds, social security or rental houses in a different state. :)   And for that I have my grand parents to thank for it.    They were smart, hardworking, good hearted folks who passed that on to their kids.   They didn't have much money during the depression but they made it thru with their farm intact.

My grandfather was very smart fellow.   The local mill and grain silo company had been in the same local family for some generations.   Millers tend to be wealthier than farmers because they get a cut of all the farmer's income.    I don't know how much you know about small town or small rural areas.   It's not uncommon for someone really hard-working and sharp to make a lot of money and become important in their small area.   Their kids partially grew up as regular kids so they have a lot of the traits their parents have.  But the 3rd and 4th generation are often ignorant, lazy and feel more entitled than the mythical Reagan welfare queen.    They grow up being "important people" and never really have to develop their abilities to provide for themselves.  Once they take over they often run the business into the ground and spend themselves broke.   

The millers in that area were in the 3rd or 4th generation and had all the bad qualities I just described.   My grandfather had received a very large check from them for his grain (minus their cut for the work, of course).   The check bounced.

Because he paid attention and knew people, he found out that other checks had bounced.   This is back before computers checked the balance right away, etc.   So if you needed a bit of float in your account, you could play some games.   Let's say the millers had $10,000 in their account.    If they wrote an $11,000 check it would bounce, but it looked to whomever was processing it to be a simple mistake instead of a fraudulent check.   If they wrote several such checks, each would look, to whichever teller processed it, to be a simple mistake.

My grandfather realized that there were more serious problems than just a simple oops.  So he went to the bank and asked how much they had in the bank account.  His feeling was that $10,000 out of $11,000 was better than $0 out of $11,000, so maybe he could just get what they had instead of what they owed.   The bank teller shook her head no and explained they weren't allowed to reveal that information.

My grandfather thought for a moment, then asked, "If I were to deposit $100 in the account, would there be enough to cash this check?"

The teller looked at him, thought about the rules, and said, "No--o--o--o--o..."

"How about $200?"

A few hundred dollars deposited into their account later, he walked out with as much of his money as they had.    Other folks ended up getting bupkis.


AMandM

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2423 on: March 12, 2021, 12:21:05 PM »

Counterpoint: giving the interview in which they see these things is part of the strategy for monetizing their fame since they do not have access to much of the family money anymore.
As a strategy for monetizing theor fame, I think it's very effective, but as a strategy for garnering sympathy, not so much.

I kind have a hard time to sympatize with someone that wants to be independent but then complains of daddy cutting of the money supply. Add to that they seem to be complaining about the media coverage and wanting to live a normal life but then go on Oprah to pump up the interest to further monetize their public personas.

I don't believe for a minute that they want to live normal lives, unless by "normal" they mean "extraordinarily privileged and unencumbered by any obligation."
There's something deeply ironic about getting Oprah to help them tell the world about how awful the media are for violating their privacy.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2424 on: March 12, 2021, 01:23:08 PM »

There's something deeply ironic about getting Oprah to help them tell the world about how awful the media are for violating their privacy.

If they had really wanted privacy they would have stayed on Vancouver Island, where their privacy was being respected.  But no, they moved to LA in the middle of the pandemic.

Someone somewhere joked Harry would make a good next GG.  NO.  Just, NO!!!!!!!

Mighty Eyebrows

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2425 on: March 13, 2021, 01:13:09 AM »
I heard their location in Vancouver was released, and due to the family pulling security away from them, they wanted to find a new location with security.

No, their location was known pretty much in the first week. I don't live that far away. The locals were pretty respectful, though, even going to the point of not helping the international media that descended to ask questions and take pictures.

I do have some empathy for their problems, but deciding to go for Oprah-type publicity is a decision I wouldn't have made. You are either in the public eye or you aren't. There is no half-way. Personally, I think they might come to regret going back into the madness of media scrutiny.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2426 on: March 13, 2021, 02:54:48 AM »
I heard their location in Vancouver was released, and due to the family pulling security away from them, they wanted to find a new location with security.

No, their location was known pretty much in the first week. I don't live that far away. The locals were pretty respectful, though, even going to the point of not helping the international media that descended to ask questions and take pictures.

I do have some empathy for their problems, but deciding to go for Oprah-type publicity is a decision I wouldn't have made. You are either in the public eye or you aren't. There is no half-way. Personally, I think they might come to regret going back into the madness of media scrutiny.
They are proposing to make money to support their lifestyle (£5 million last year, apparently, even with help on their accommodation) through media deals.  And Meghan's chosen profession of actress has always been open to media scrutiny.  A quiet life living privately within their means was always unlikely.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2427 on: March 13, 2021, 07:12:42 AM »
The idea of spending 5 million or more to live on in a year is just crazy to me.   I really can't imagine how I could do it.

I had a full time housekeeper when I lived in Ethiopia.   She and the rest of the house staff (gardener, grounds guards) "came with the house" my company was renting.    It was nice having someone clean the house but I hated having someone puttering around the house when I occasionally worked at home.    I can't imagine having a house full of servants.   (Shudders.) 

I suppose I could get up to $200k per year with a whole lot more energy than I actually have and I would feel like that was incredibly extravagant.     If they wanted to be out of the public eye they could pick up a very nice home in a gated community in much of the country for $500k or a decent one for less than $2m in a few select metro areas.   With their assets they wouldn't need to work if they kept their spending in the $400k to $500k range -- which is a damned extravagant lifestyle with a paid off house.

I feel sorry for them in that the press won't leave them alone for years, but not one iota over finances.   


gaja

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2428 on: March 13, 2021, 11:08:17 AM »
Just like Plina explaind from Sweden, Norway also has a princess who didn't want to be princess anymore. As long as she doesn't stir any trouble, she is left alone. There have been some issues of her trying to profit from her titles, and now she has been stripped of them. There was also an issue when she started dating an American self proclaimed shaman. Was some if it racism: no doubt. But 90 % of the backlash was from her promoting a misogynist charlatan to the  Norwegian audience, and them trying to make money by basically defrauding people. Her attempts at making money are not going very well, so she has started selling some of her inherited property. Her children never had titles . They are at the same place as UK's Archie, and titles are not normal that far out in the inheritance list. In all likelyhood, they will silently disappear from the limelight and get normal jobs. I think some of the current crown prince's first cousins are selling trucks and running clothes stores, but they have never made an appearance in the newspapers, so I don't really know.

Royalty is a shit job. It might pay well, but otherwise it is just a glorified public servant role with no true power. If it is true that Megan didn't prepare at all, and Harry declined help to prepare her, then it is no wonder everything blew up. Sure, there is plenty of racism in the royal family. Sure, they probably have an extremely shit HR department. But M&H very clearly did not want to do their jobs.

Like most Norwegians, I am against monarchy on principle, but think Harald does a decent job (for instance with this speech: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/06/king-harald-norway-diversity-speech). We can always discuss the amount of money we spend on them, but as long as they also contribute some of their own (inherited) money to take care of the royal castle and other national heritage sites, I don't mind as much. Having a president instead would also be expensive. If the next generation of our royal family doesn't want the job, then I hope they simply and quietly quit. There is no need to slam the door on the way out.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2021, 11:13:12 AM by gaja »

AlanStache

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2429 on: March 13, 2021, 11:22:43 AM »
"The idea of spending 5 million or more to live on in a year is just crazy to me."

Google says security guards can cost 75 to 150$/hr; 100$/hr*40hr/wk*52wk/year -> 208k/year.  Would guess they have at least five so that is +1 million right there, then add in a few personal assistants.  Then when you travel you have to fly privet (30k$/flight hr) + everyone needs a hotel room etc.  So yeah I could see things adding up quickly, even if they are not drinking 500 bottles of wine with dinner nightly. 



Plina

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2430 on: March 13, 2021, 01:56:33 PM »


Like most Norwegians, I am against monarchy on principle, but think Harald does a decent job (for instance with this speech: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/06/king-harald-norway-diversity-speech). We can always discuss the amount of money we spend on them, but as long as they also contribute some of their own (inherited) money to take care of the royal castle and other national heritage sites, I don't mind as much. Having a president instead would also be expensive. If the next generation of our royal family doesn't want the job, then I hope they simply and quietly quit. There is no need to slam the door on the way out.

I think this reflects my thinking regarding our royal family. The working royal family has been limited and the grandchildren, with the exception of the family of the crownprincess will not be part of the working royal family. I like Viktoria and thinks she is a worthy repsentative of the country. If the other siblings would take over I would probably have a more negative picture of a continuing representation by the royal family.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2021, 01:01:31 AM by Plina »

racquetcat

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2431 on: March 13, 2021, 03:14:37 PM »
Does anyone else have any farm inheritance drama or stories?

I have some that I posted maybe ~40 pages back.  Here's the simplified version to keep it short.

  My grandfather had three kids and three pieces of property.  He had 2x cattle ranches in CA that are about 200 acres each and a house in the local city.  Instead of giving one property to each child, every property got split 3 ways.

  Now my mom lives in the house and her brothers live on a ranch of their own.  Since it's jointly owned, they all pay rent to each other and pay out ranch income.  I've never figured out how they allocate income since it's technically owned 1/3 each way, but each ranch has one person doing all the labor.  I know the ranches don't make much money. 

  About a decade ago, the family enters into a business deal to sell a conservation easement on a separate property owned by one brothers second wife.  No one ever told me the full story, but I know that somehow my mom now owns half of this new property and the new wife sued the other brother over the deal.  Being ranchers, no one ever talked about this.  They just stopped talking to each other.  Yet they still pay each other rent.

  I'm now set to inherit 1/6 of each property eventually.  I've talked to my mom about changing it so that me and my brother can inherit the house and our cousins can inherit the property that their parents live on.  Unfortunately my mom has zero interest in this.  She enjoys having a partial ownership stake in the ranch.

  I'm not sure what I'll do when I inherit this mess.  I have zero interest in owning a 1/6 stake in a ranch.  None of the other family members have the funds to buy anyone else out.  I also remain irrationally angry at one of my uncles over a property purchase I tried to make from the family (this is a different story).  Part of me wants to force a sale of something just to get out of it.  But I know this would destroy my relationship with all of my uncles and cousins.

One of the reasons we want to do all this legal stuff is that people would not be inheriting partial ownership of LAND, they would be inheriting partial ownership of a corporation.   That way, no one can force anyone to sell.    They would be able to sell to outsiders as long as no family members would meet the price.    That way, they can get their money out if they want to.   At some point folks may decide it's better to sell the entire corporation to some mega-corporation because it's not worth the hassle.   Right now, my 1/3rd and 1/2 share is worth $20k to $25k a year.    (I budget for $20k in my income projections.)   

I was an only child.  My mom's siblings each had 3 kids, so their share would be 1/9th and 1/6th (or 1/9th and 0/6ths).   Two more generations and it won't be that much money per share.   Except in my branch of the family; my daughter will inherit the income rights but my son will inherit my share of the farm, so it will take another generation before my share gets diluted 3 ways (3 grandkids).

$6-8k is still solid money to help middle class folks jump-start their savings or their schooling.

When you get down to $1k or $2k, not so much.   At that point it probably won't be worth a family member's time to manage things for everyone else and it would make far more sense to sell.

As for me, I like having a source of income that's in the $20k to $25k range that's uncorrelated to stocks, bonds, social security or rental houses in a different state. :)   And for that I have my grand parents to thank for it.    They were smart, hardworking, good hearted folks who passed that on to their kids.   They didn't have much money during the depression but they made it thru with their farm intact.

My grandfather was very smart fellow.   The local mill and grain silo company had been in the same local family for some generations.   Millers tend to be wealthier than farmers because they get a cut of all the farmer's income.    I don't know how much you know about small town or small rural areas.   It's not uncommon for someone really hard-working and sharp to make a lot of money and become important in their small area.   Their kids partially grew up as regular kids so they have a lot of the traits their parents have.  But the 3rd and 4th generation are often ignorant, lazy and feel more entitled than the mythical Reagan welfare queen.    They grow up being "important people" and never really have to develop their abilities to provide for themselves.  Once they take over they often run the business into the ground and spend themselves broke.   

The millers in that area were in the 3rd or 4th generation and had all the bad qualities I just described.   My grandfather had received a very large check from them for his grain (minus their cut for the work, of course).   The check bounced.

Because he paid attention and knew people, he found out that other checks had bounced.   This is back before computers checked the balance right away, etc.   So if you needed a bit of float in your account, you could play some games.   Let's say the millers had $10,000 in their account.    If they wrote an $11,000 check it would bounce, but it looked to whomever was processing it to be a simple mistake instead of a fraudulent check.   If they wrote several such checks, each would look, to whichever teller processed it, to be a simple mistake.

My grandfather realized that there were more serious problems than just a simple oops.  So he went to the bank and asked how much they had in the bank account.  His feeling was that $10,000 out of $11,000 was better than $0 out of $11,000, so maybe he could just get what they had instead of what they owed.   The bank teller shook her head no and explained they weren't allowed to reveal that information.

My grandfather thought for a moment, then asked, "If I were to deposit $100 in the account, would there be enough to cash this check?"

The teller looked at him, thought about the rules, and said, "No--o--o--o--o..."

"How about $200?"

A few hundred dollars deposited into their account later, he walked out with as much of his money as they had.    Other folks ended up getting bupkis.

@SwordGuy
I totally get the point that at a certain point it doesn't make sense to keep land if you own 1/9th of a quarter section or something. I don't know how much land my wife's grandparents or my grandmother owns, but at some point that could be broken into such small parts that it would make more sense to sell it then to keep such a small portion (maybe I should start saving now so I could potentially buy out other family members). It'll be interesting to see how that all plays out for my wife and I, but we probably have another 30 years before anything would get in our hands.


Dave1442397

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2432 on: March 13, 2021, 03:48:00 PM »
My grandfather was very smart fellow.   The local mill and grain silo company had been in the same local family for some generations.   Millers tend to be wealthier than farmers because they get a cut of all the farmer's income.    I don't know how much you know about small town or small rural areas.   It's not uncommon for someone really hard-working and sharp to make a lot of money and become important in their small area.   Their kids partially grew up as regular kids so they have a lot of the traits their parents have.  But the 3rd and 4th generation are often ignorant, lazy and feel more entitled than the mythical Reagan welfare queen.    They grow up being "important people" and never really have to develop their abilities to provide for themselves.  Once they take over they often run the business into the ground and spend themselves broke.   

The millers in that area were in the 3rd or 4th generation and had all the bad qualities I just described.   My grandfather had received a very large check from them for his grain (minus their cut for the work, of course).   The check bounced.

Because he paid attention and knew people, he found out that other checks had bounced.   This is back before computers checked the balance right away, etc.   So if you needed a bit of float in your account, you could play some games.   Let's say the millers had $10,000 in their account.    If they wrote an $11,000 check it would bounce, but it looked to whomever was processing it to be a simple mistake instead of a fraudulent check.   If they wrote several such checks, each would look, to whichever teller processed it, to be a simple mistake.

My grandfather realized that there were more serious problems than just a simple oops.  So he went to the bank and asked how much they had in the bank account.  His feeling was that $10,000 out of $11,000 was better than $0 out of $11,000, so maybe he could just get what they had instead of what they owed.   The bank teller shook her head no and explained they weren't allowed to reveal that information.

My grandfather thought for a moment, then asked, "If I were to deposit $100 in the account, would there be enough to cash this check?"

The teller looked at him, thought about the rules, and said, "No--o--o--o--o..."

"How about $200?"

A few hundred dollars deposited into their account later, he walked out with as much of his money as they had.    Other folks ended up getting bupkis.

A smart guy, indeed. Some good logical thinking there!

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2433 on: March 13, 2021, 06:02:49 PM »
"The idea of spending 5 million or more to live on in a year is just crazy to me."

Google says security guards can cost 75 to 150$/hr; 100$/hr*40hr/wk*52wk/year -> 208k/year.  Would guess they have at least five so that is +1 million right there, then add in a few personal assistants.  Then when you travel you have to fly privet (30k$/flight hr) + everyone needs a hotel room etc.  So yeah I could see things adding up quickly, even if they are not drinking 500 bottles of wine with dinner nightly.
You'd probably need security 24/7.  Crazy people don't necessarily follow business hours.

But $30k per flight hour is excessive--that's military fighter and bomber prices. 

AlanStache

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2434 on: March 13, 2021, 06:28:58 PM »
"The idea of spending 5 million or more to live on in a year is just crazy to me."

Google says security guards can cost 75 to 150$/hr; 100$/hr*40hr/wk*52wk/year -> 208k/year.  Would guess they have at least five so that is +1 million right there, then add in a few personal assistants.  Then when you travel you have to fly privet (30k$/flight hr) + everyone needs a hotel room etc.  So yeah I could see things adding up quickly, even if they are not drinking 500 bottles of wine with dinner nightly.
You'd probably need security 24/7.  Crazy people don't necessarily follow business hours.

But $30k per flight hour is excessive--that's military fighter and bomber prices.

30k$/flight hour: yeah I messed up with the reading; confused cost vs rate...


talltexan

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2435 on: March 13, 2021, 07:28:47 PM »
I would think security is one of those things that gets a lot more expensive with relatives living far away from each other. One more person living at Windsor castle: not a lot of additional expense.

A whole extra house and household in Montecito...

iris lily

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2436 on: March 13, 2021, 07:32:30 PM »
I would think security is one of those things that gets a lot more expensive with relatives living far away from each other. One more person living at Windsor castle: not a lot of additional expense.

A whole extra house and household in Montecito...

They have security following them out and about.I took the Duchessí complaint to mean
Archie got no security if he stayed in the royal family confines.

They are now living in Santa Barbara California.(edit:  sorry I didnít realize it Montecito is a area in Santa Barbara region.)
« Last Edit: March 14, 2021, 11:28:43 AM by iris lily »

former player

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2437 on: March 13, 2021, 08:10:29 PM »
I would think security is one of those things that gets a lot more expensive with relatives living far away from each other. One more person living at Windsor castle: not a lot of additional expense.

A whole extra house and household in Montecito...

They have security following them out and about.I took the Duchessí complaint to mean
Archie got no security if he stayed in the royal family confines.

They are now living in Santa Barbara California.
He'd have been covered by his parents' security as long as he was with them.  Presumably the concern was that he would be spending significant time not with them?  And their home must have been covered 24/7 so if he was at home alone he would still have been covered?  For a child still under 2 that presumably covers just about full time security: he's either at home or out with his parents.

Plus, as soon as the Queen dies (she's 94) in normal circumstances (not sure what the family break means) Archie automatically becomes a prince and entitled to protection on his own account because he's the King's grandson.  So this "not entitled" business is really pretty limited, it seems to me, and not hard to either work around or pay a little bit extra to fill in any gaps.

PhilB

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2438 on: March 14, 2021, 04:26:48 AM »
I would think security is one of those things that gets a lot more expensive with relatives living far away from each other. One more person living at Windsor castle: not a lot of additional expense.

A whole extra house and household in Montecito...

They have security following them out and about.I took the Duchessí complaint to mean
Archie got no security if he stayed in the royal family confines.

They are now living in Santa Barbara California.
He'd have been covered by his parents' security as long as he was with them.  Presumably the concern was that he would be spending significant time not with them?  And their home must have been covered 24/7 so if he was at home alone he would still have been covered?  For a child still under 2 that presumably covers just about full time security: he's either at home or out with his parents.

Plus, as soon as the Queen dies (she's 94) in normal circumstances (not sure what the family break means) Archie automatically becomes a prince and entitled to protection on his own account because he's the King's grandson.  So this "not entitled" business is really pretty limited, it seems to me, and not hard to either work around or pay a little bit extra to fill in any gaps.

I'm afraid the bolded bit doesn't work that way.  Of the Queen's grandchildren only Charles' kids (because he's the heir apparent) and Andrew's (because he managed to persuade the Queen) are princes / princesses.  Neither Anne's kids nor Edward's have these titles (or massively expensive security).

former player

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2439 on: March 14, 2021, 04:33:59 AM »
I would think security is one of those things that gets a lot more expensive with relatives living far away from each other. One more person living at Windsor castle: not a lot of additional expense.

A whole extra house and household in Montecito...

They have security following them out and about.I took the Duchessí complaint to mean
Archie got no security if he stayed in the royal family confines.

They are now living in Santa Barbara California.
He'd have been covered by his parents' security as long as he was with them.  Presumably the concern was that he would be spending significant time not with them?  And their home must have been covered 24/7 so if he was at home alone he would still have been covered?  For a child still under 2 that presumably covers just about full time security: he's either at home or out with his parents.

Plus, as soon as the Queen dies (she's 94) in normal circumstances (not sure what the family break means) Archie automatically becomes a prince and entitled to protection on his own account because he's the King's grandson.  So this "not entitled" business is really pretty limited, it seems to me, and not hard to either work around or pay a little bit extra to fill in any gaps.

I'm afraid the bolded bit doesn't work that way.  Of the Queen's grandchildren only Charles' kids (because he's the heir apparent) and Andrew's (because he managed to persuade the Queen) are princes / princesses.  Neither Anne's kids nor Edward's have these titles (or massively expensive security).
Ah, right, he's just the heir to a Dukedom instead of becoming a Prince.  My bad.

Plina

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2440 on: March 14, 2021, 05:07:05 AM »
I would think security is one of those things that gets a lot more expensive with relatives living far away from each other. One more person living at Windsor castle: not a lot of additional expense.

A whole extra house and household in Montecito...

They have security following them out and about.I took the Duchessí complaint to mean
Archie got no security if he stayed in the royal family confines.

They are now living in Santa Barbara California.
He'd have been covered by his parents' security as long as he was with them.  Presumably the concern was that he would be spending significant time not with them?  And their home must have been covered 24/7 so if he was at home alone he would still have been covered?  For a child still under 2 that presumably covers just about full time security: he's either at home or out with his parents.

Plus, as soon as the Queen dies (she's 94) in normal circumstances (not sure what the family break means) Archie automatically becomes a prince and entitled to protection on his own account because he's the King's grandson.  So this "not entitled" business is really pretty limited, it seems to me, and not hard to either work around or pay a little bit extra to fill in any gaps.

I'm afraid the bolded bit doesn't work that way.  Of the Queen's grandchildren only Charles' kids (because he's the heir apparent) and Andrew's (because he managed to persuade the Queen) are princes / princesses.  Neither Anne's kids nor Edward's have these titles (or massively expensive security).
Ah, right, he's just the heir to a Dukedom instead of becoming a Prince.  My bad.

Does he actually inherit a dukedom? I thought the titels were only an honorary thing. Here, they get a duchesse or duke title but that does not come with castles or land as they did a couple of hundreds of years ago. It only means a bit more ribboncutting in that specific part of the country.

PhilB

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2441 on: March 14, 2021, 06:17:03 AM »
I would think security is one of those things that gets a lot more expensive with relatives living far away from each other. One more person living at Windsor castle: not a lot of additional expense.

A whole extra house and household in Montecito...

They have security following them out and about.I took the Duchessí complaint to mean
Archie got no security if he stayed in the royal family confines.

They are now living in Santa Barbara California.
He'd have been covered by his parents' security as long as he was with them.  Presumably the concern was that he would be spending significant time not with them?  And their home must have been covered 24/7 so if he was at home alone he would still have been covered?  For a child still under 2 that presumably covers just about full time security: he's either at home or out with his parents.

Plus, as soon as the Queen dies (she's 94) in normal circumstances (not sure what the family break means) Archie automatically becomes a prince and entitled to protection on his own account because he's the King's grandson.  So this "not entitled" business is really pretty limited, it seems to me, and not hard to either work around or pay a little bit extra to fill in any gaps.

I'm afraid the bolded bit doesn't work that way.  Of the Queen's grandchildren only Charles' kids (because he's the heir apparent) and Andrew's (because he managed to persuade the Queen) are princes / princesses.  Neither Anne's kids nor Edward's have these titles (or massively expensive security).
Ah, right, he's just the heir to a Dukedom instead of becoming a Prince.  My bad.

Does he actually inherit a dukedom? I thought the titels were only an honorary thing. Here, they get a duchesse or duke title but that does not come with castles or land as they did a couple of hundreds of years ago. It only means a bit more ribboncutting in that specific part of the country.

The title doesn't come with any lands, property etc.  It is, however, hereditary unlike the life peerages handed out by the government which die with the holder.  Basically it just gives extra points in ribbon cutting Top Trumps.

Harry has already inherited a fortune and seems not to have grasped that being a main member of the Royal Family is a job.  Moaning about having been cut off financially is like complaining that your boss stopped paying you after you resigned.

Imma

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2442 on: March 14, 2021, 06:58:36 AM »
Just like Plina explaind from Sweden, Norway also has a princess who didn't want to be princess anymore. As long as she doesn't stir any trouble, she is left alone. There have been some issues of her trying to profit from her titles, and now she has been stripped of them. There was also an issue when she started dating an American self proclaimed shaman. Was some if it racism: no doubt. But 90 % of the backlash was from her promoting a misogynist charlatan to the  Norwegian audience, and them trying to make money by basically defrauding people. Her attempts at making money are not going very well, so she has started selling some of her inherited property. Her children never had titles . They are at the same place as UK's Archie, and titles are not normal that far out in the inheritance list. In all likelyhood, they will silently disappear from the limelight and get normal jobs. I think some of the current crown prince's first cousins are selling trucks and running clothes stores, but they have never made an appearance in the newspapers, so I don't really know.

Royalty is a shit job. It might pay well, but otherwise it is just a glorified public servant role with no true power. If it is true that Megan didn't prepare at all, and Harry declined help to prepare her, then it is no wonder everything blew up. Sure, there is plenty of racism in the royal family. Sure, they probably have an extremely shit HR department. But M&H very clearly did not want to do their jobs.

Like most Norwegians, I am against monarchy on principle, but think Harald does a decent job (for instance with this speech: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/06/king-harald-norway-diversity-speech). We can always discuss the amount of money we spend on them, but as long as they also contribute some of their own (inherited) money to take care of the royal castle and other national heritage sites, I don't mind as much. Having a president instead would also be expensive. If the next generation of our royal family doesn't want the job, then I hope they simply and quietly quit. There is no need to slam the door on the way out.

Your princess Martha Louise is in the Dutch tabloids all the time! See, we have the convention that pictures of royals are only taken at official engagements, they don't write about the private lives of the underage members at all, and they don't publish "paparazzi" pics of royals unless they do really really stupid shit. Our royal family seems to have half a brain so they have never been caught playing strippoker or dressing up as nazi's. So we look to other royal houses for more entertaining stories, and she definitely fits that description. Plus she lived in the Netherlands for a while so there's a connection. But they don't stalk her either, they just publish whatever she puts online.

Our King's late brother was totally not interested in being a royal, so he studied engineering, got a job and moved abroad and nobody cared about that, and it's the same for the King's cousins. They have access to a great network, the best education money can buy, they have excellent career opportunities. They don't have to flip burgers. Some are entrepeneurs, other are in banking or startups or they work for the military or the UN. Honestly I think their quality of life is probably better than that of the heir.

I think many people feel the same about the monarchy in the Netherlands. Our current King does his job ok-ish, his wife is very well liked. She comes across as kind and fun and is always dressed nicely. Her main charity interest is financial independence for women! (she's a former banker with a degree in economics).  The job of being royalty seems pretty boring though, and if none of our current princesses is interested, we'll happily abolish it. It seems that all we care about for royal women is how they dress. Our Queen Maxima is a great dresser though - it's clear she just wears whatever she likes (and is appropriate for the occasion of course). English royals all seem to dress like they're in their 50s/60s. I wonder what those ladies wear in their private lives. I expect the dress code makes the job even less fun.

TomTX

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2443 on: March 14, 2021, 04:15:05 PM »
I don't believe for a minute that they want to live normal lives, unless by "normal" they mean "extraordinarily privileged and unencumbered by any obligation."
There's something deeply ironic about getting Oprah to help them tell the world about how awful the media are for violating their privacy.

They literally can't live normal lives unless they want the kids (and possibly themselves) at very high risk for kidnapping or worse. They are at a level of fame where full-time security and a secure household location is a requirement.

Hula Hoop

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2444 on: March 14, 2021, 04:19:18 PM »
I'm so glad that the Italians had the good sense to get rid of their monarchy via a 1946 referendum.  The guy who would have been heir to the throne is a reality TV star/food truck owner although more recently he has been trying his hand at politics. https://www.ruetir.com/2020/12/12/emanuele-filiberto-changes-job-and-becomes-chef/

DaMa

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2445 on: March 14, 2021, 07:57:49 PM »
I would think security is one of those things that gets a lot more expensive with relatives living far away from each other. One more person living at Windsor castle: not a lot of additional expense.

A whole extra house and household in Montecito...

They have security following them out and about.I took the Duchessí complaint to mean
Archie got no security if he stayed in the royal family confines.

They are now living in Santa Barbara California.
He'd have been covered by his parents' security as long as he was with them.  Presumably the concern was that he would be spending significant time not with them?  And their home must have been covered 24/7 so if he was at home alone he would still have been covered?  For a child still under 2 that presumably covers just about full time security: he's either at home or out with his parents.

Plus, as soon as the Queen dies (she's 94) in normal circumstances (not sure what the family break means) Archie automatically becomes a prince and entitled to protection on his own account because he's the King's grandson.  So this "not entitled" business is really pretty limited, it seems to me, and not hard to either work around or pay a little bit extra to fill in any gaps.

I'm afraid the bolded bit doesn't work that way.  Of the Queen's grandchildren only Charles' kids (because he's the heir apparent) and Andrew's (because he managed to persuade the Queen) are princes / princesses.  Neither Anne's kids nor Edward's have these titles (or massively expensive security).
Ah, right, he's just the heir to a Dukedom instead of becoming a Prince.  My bad.

Once Charles is King, Archie will be entitled to be a Prince.

Prince/Princess  are children of the sovereign, children of the sons of the sovereign , and children of the Prince of Wales' eldest son.

This is why Andrew's daughters are princesses.  Edward's children are entitled to be prince/princess, but their was a decision made that they would not.

It used to be just the eldest son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales' was a prince (which would be just George), but that was changed to all the children in December 2012.  I suspect the "complaint" may have come from that.  Why just William's children and not Harry's?

If the Queen were to outlive Charles, Archie won't be a prince.

Imma

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2446 on: March 15, 2021, 01:31:47 AM »
I don't believe for a minute that they want to live normal lives, unless by "normal" they mean "extraordinarily privileged and unencumbered by any obligation."
There's something deeply ironic about getting Oprah to help them tell the world about how awful the media are for violating their privacy.

They literally can't live normal lives unless they want the kids (and possibly themselves) at very high risk for kidnapping or worse. They are at a level of fame where full-time security and a secure household location is a requirement.

I'm sure that's true, but it seems that most of the royal family pays for their own security. It seems only prince Charles and prince William & family have their security paid for, and Harry while he was a working royal. Others pay their own security out of pocket, apparantly from their private wealth. Plus, they lived on a secure family compounds like Windsor and Kensington Palace. It's kind of naieve to not think of what would happen to your security if you quit the job.

But having security doesn't mean you can't live a relatively normal life. I think prince William lived a quiet life in rural Wales when he was in the military. He certainly still had security but it's very different from living in London or in LA. If Harry really wanted to live a "normal" life going back into active duty, preferably in a remote part of the country or somewhere overseas, would have been a great option.

PhilB

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2447 on: March 15, 2021, 02:12:07 AM »
My bad.  You are right that, under the current letters patent, H&M's kids would become princes / princesses on Charles' accession.  There has been a pretty clear direction of travel on this one though and there is definitely an expectation now that this is an entitlement that will not be exercised.  It has only been done once in the last two generations - and that was very much seen as the Queen indulging her (then) favourite child Andrew.

As to the 'Why W's kids not H's?' question, the 2012 changes were made as part of the whole changes to ensure that if their firstborn was a girl she would not be leapfrogged by any subsequent boys.  This specific change avoided the nonsense of a future queen being styled 'Lady' whilst her younger brother would be 'Prince'.  I'm guessing that the eldest son being a Prince was sufficiently embedded in different things that it was easier to make all of them princes than change son to child.

The overarching issue is the widely supported drive towards a slimmed down monarchy.  Basically the idea is that only those in direct line plus their siblings get a (very onerous) job for life.  Not children of said siblings.

DadJokes

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2448 on: March 15, 2021, 05:01:02 AM »
Serious question:

Why do people outside of Britain pay so much attention to the British monarchy? They hold no power and do nothing of significance. I get the tabloid-celebrity obsession from the average person (a.k.a. idiots), but even otherwise intelligent people seem to hold some weird infatuation with that family.

Imma

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2449 on: March 15, 2021, 05:34:29 AM »
Serious question:

Why do people outside of Britain pay so much attention to the British monarchy? They hold no power and do nothing of significance. I get the tabloid-celebrity obsession from the average person (a.k.a. idiots), but even otherwise intelligent people seem to hold some weird infatuation with that family.

Is that specific to the British royal family? People in here are just as interested in all the other royal houses, like those of say, Sweden, Norway, Denmark or Spain. I do feel that in the older generation especially there's an appreciation for Queen Elizabeth and Prince Philip because of their actions in the War. The free UK, it's royal family and the Allied forces were a beacon of hope to Europeans. I know my late grandparents appreciated them very much because they shared the same experience of working on the home front (like the future Queen) and being in the military (like the future Duke). The Queen became a symbol of the postwar era.

I disagree by the way that royals "do nothing". They are head of state, much like your President. They are not elected and they don't make the political decisions, but do not underestimate their influence. They are basically our countries' top diplomats. Royals forge trade connections, they solve international disagreements and they certainly do influence policy up to a certain degree. They don't spend their days cutting ribbons.