Author Topic: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.  (Read 1424312 times)

lhamo

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3007
  • Location: Seattle
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2700 on: October 04, 2021, 09:46:22 AM »
enablers just are conditioned to keep on enabling even after they are dead.

This is an appropriate TL/DR subtitle for this thread!  Not that it should end, but it is the gist of story after story after story.

If you are in a dysfunctional family and somebody dies, put your big kid pants on, draw your boundaries and prepare to defend them. 

Zamboni

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3869
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2701 on: October 04, 2021, 10:28:30 AM »
So @Zamboni several things: first, and most important of which is THAT I AM TERRIBLY SORRY YOU AND YOUR SO ARE HAVING TO GO THROUGH THIS!  That can't be said enough.  This is not normal or humane behavior.   

Seriously.  You two may want to consider something that has helped us in the midst of awful situations: go out and have some fun some nights and try to forget about all of this.  I know it's hard to do that in the midst of a tragedy, but it's also the best medicine, as folks have reminded me over the years (because I'll let the stress of it get to me). 

Now, I can help as to where this is headed, as I have experience dealing with (lots of) conflicts and unreasonable situations.  Actions speak louder than words, and this started with outright fraud and seizure of things that DotL (for short) had no business taking. 

It's headed towards outright fraud and theft.  She's going to camp on the estate, control it, and drain every thing of any possible value.  It's already underway. 

The estate will continue on until she converts everything that she possibly can into cash for herself, the estate goes bankrupt, and things get seized.  Her cash problems will only hasten the speed of the theft. 

This is someone who does what she wants, not someone who cares about paperwork, laws, and rules--that much she has shown you.  I hate to tell you this, but to prepare yourself, I would prepare for maximum ugly here and start establishing those boundaries so that you can stay out of and above the drama. 

Eventually, you're likely to need hard no-contact rules.  Why let her drag your own emotional lives down, rather than shut her off for periods of time, and/or mediate it through a lawyer/trusted friend/someone else/ignore her completely, so that you can stay away from it all.  That path is going to get increasingly attractive over time. 

As I see it, there are two paths here: SO can either jump in, take over the estate, and fight it out (or, rather, employ the lawyers to do so), which would be a large emotional lift and expensive due to DotL and her inevitable shenanigans.  Or you both can walk away, let her trash it all, ignore it all as it circles the drain, but preserve more of your peace and sanity.  And nothing is worth more than peace and sanity...once you don't have it anymore. 

Anyway, I'm sorry once again and wish you nothing but the best in dealing with a truly awful situation.  There's nothing like death and money to bring out the worst in some people.  But thankfully you two have each other to get through this and stay above the fray.

Thanks again for this. We decided to go on vacation to a tropical paradise this past weekend . . . that was a great idea!

Your predictions are so spot on.

Updates about the Destroyer of the Last Will and Testament (DotLWaT!, DotLW for short):

-DotLW got so mad that Mr. Zamboni wouldn't send her money for "the bills" that she threatened no contact with him . . . a threat that of course she just can't make good on because of her continuous need to send rude texts and demand things. And then there was the whole emergence of another copy of a will wrinkle she hadn't anticipated. So she's already followed up several times since then. *Eyeroll*

-Mr. Zamboni has decided that No Contact with DotLW is the only sane strategy from his side . . . so he is not responding.

-As far as I can discern, the named executor in the only copy of a will anyone has seen beside DotLW has thrown in the towel and given the reins over to DotLW. Honestly, everyone is just quietly backing away from the mess with their hands in the air. Other sane sibling is also just saying "whatever, do what you want, but I'm not giving you money" to all demands.

-DotLW has communicated that she is going to obtain the divorce finalization paperwork from the court to negate the named sole inheritor in the will from getting anything. No idea if this is how it works or not, and no idea if DotLW has sought any legal advice.

-DotLW has sent copies of credit card receipts for what she paid for the hastily solo planned over-the-top funeral/burial. Oh, Lordy, I guess it's no surprise that she spread it out over several different credit cards even to the same funeral home. Predictions that she is in financial trouble coming true. She appears to have bought the most expensive plot at the most expensive cemetery in town. Despite the deceased belonging to a large local church for decades, she paid extra to have the service held in the chapel owned by the funeral home instead. And despite having to charge it all on various cards, she is still vowing to spend over $4K additionally for a headstone which she is picking out. According to her texts, she IS doing this and she WILL get her money back and no one better stand in her way! No one else is on board with her plan. Seriously I've purchased cars for less than this theoretical headstone.

-DotLW is whining to extended family that people are not jumping in to pay her back for her ridiculous choices.

-DotLW also sent a copy of her bank statement showing that she is paying the bills of the deceased. These include normal things like utilities on the home and absurd things such as renewing an AARP membership (Um, why?) She is paying these from her personal account, rather than an established estate bank account.

-Although DotLW once said she planned to move into the house left by the deceased, she has reversed course and now says she plans to sell it.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2021, 02:15:30 PM by Zamboni »

TomTX

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5345
  • Location: Texas
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2702 on: October 04, 2021, 06:45:02 PM »
I was surprised how much it cost, considering there was no funeral (there was graveside service). The plot was already paid for. We did purchase a solid wood casket as that is customary but from another company so "reasonable". 

https://www.costco.com/funeral-caskets.html

Sibley

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7371
  • Location: Northwest Indiana
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2703 on: October 04, 2021, 08:13:43 PM »
I highly doubt that divorce paperwork is going to make any difference. But it may at least be amusing to watch her try.

It sounds like everyone is deciding to walk away. While a shame to the ideals of law and order, it's probably the most efficient and effective way to avoid a mess. DotLW is going to learn the very hard lesson of karma though. By behaving as she is, she is going to alienate everyone. She's also going to end up completely broke. Which she will then blame on everyone else, conveniently forgetting that she did it to herself.

Glad you got a break from everything at least.

AMandM

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1673
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2704 on: October 05, 2021, 12:34:27 PM »
Even cheaper than Costco, if you don't require varnish:
https://mountmichael.org/mount-michael-abbeys-caskets/

mm1970

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 10813
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2705 on: October 05, 2021, 12:49:12 PM »
Says she wants to be buried, full funeral etc. But also says she is not planning to set aside any money to pay for her wishes, (or write anything down). Also says she is going to leave all her money (hypothetical whether she will even have any assets by the time she does) to only one of the three siblings. Before my brother died she said he was going to inherit it because he "needed" it more. Now she says the same for my sister. Ironically it is the more responsible siblings who have helped her (she lives with my brother) and also have grandkids, that get cut out. Me and my brother shrug. It's not worth talking about but we asked, why leave things in a way you know will make it more difficult for the living? Responds "why should I care, I'll be dead".

I mean.  She can't have it both ways...

The last bit rings the truest to me, so if she won't care because she'll be dead, then I'd want to take her at her word.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
+1.  That's how I feel. 

@Zamboni Oooh boy, what a hot mess that is.  Good luck.

zolotiyeruki

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5577
  • Location: State: Denial
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2706 on: October 05, 2021, 01:27:23 PM »
@Zamboni do you have any indication of the size of the estate?  Is there any chance the extravagant funeral expenses will consume it?

AlanStache

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3146
  • Age: 44
  • Location: South East Virginia
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2707 on: October 05, 2021, 03:05:02 PM »
@Zamboni Or could the extravagant funeral expenses be considered a private gift from DotLW to the deceased and as such something to not come out of any estate? 

SunnyDays

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3465
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2708 on: October 05, 2021, 04:12:41 PM »
@Zamboni, can the named executor just “turn over the reins?”  This is a legal responsibility, so I hope they have gone through proper channels to do so.

PDXTabs

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5160
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Vancouver, WA, USA
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2709 on: October 05, 2021, 04:24:24 PM »
@Zamboni, can the named executor just “turn over the reins?”  This is a legal responsibility, so I hope they have gone through proper channels to do so.

Is it? Can I name Donald Trump as the executor of my estate and force him to work for me once I'm dead?

Zamboni

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3869
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2710 on: October 05, 2021, 05:11:49 PM »
Hard to say if the funeral expense will wipe out the estate. The amount that can be put towards funeral & burial expenses in our state if the intestate distribution rules are used is pretty reasonable at $5K total . . . no where near the north of $20K that has been spent.

The person was an elementary school teacher and not wealthy by any means. There was a small designated beneficiary account that is already being split between her children. There is a car (with an existing loan) and a house (with rumors or an existing second mortgage) . . . I expect DotLW will drain everything else and sell anything else of value as she pleases without entering it into the estate. This is a hoarder situation and it's going to be a lot of work, so she'll be earning it and I predict she will seriously regret that she ever went the direction she is going.

Named executor lives out of state and not interested in entering the fray. As far as I know there is no law that compels anyone to be executor. My other half was willing to help sort things out, but DotLW doesn't want any help, and she's super nasty to anyone who makes any bland suggestion of any kind, so whatever.

Adventine

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2421
  • Location: Memphis, USA
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2711 on: October 05, 2021, 10:34:10 PM »
I wonder if DotLW expects to find more cash or valuables in the giant pile of junk the deceased left behind.

AMandM

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1673
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2712 on: October 06, 2021, 07:05:38 AM »
Is it? Can I name Donald Trump as the executor of my estate and force him to work for me once I'm dead?

Yes to the first part, no to the second.
In the jurisdictions where I have had to deal with a death, the executor named in the will has the right to decline the job, but not the right to appoint the replacement. If the will doesn't name a backup executor, a court appoints one. If someone (e.g., DotLWaT) volunteers, the court will generally appoint that person as long as the presumptive heirs don't object. E.g., I had to sign a paper agreeing that my sister could be the executor for our grandmother's estate.

Britan

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 428
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2713 on: October 06, 2021, 12:25:18 PM »
This has been a fascinating binge read. Hours of my life gone… don’t regret it though haha.

How does one find a reputable lawyer to draft a will? And what is a reasonable rate for this service? DH and I are young still (30s), but we do have some simple assets and 1 kid with another on the way. It’s something we’ve discussed growing up and just doing, but no idea where to start. Our parents would have recommendations but are not local and I gather that lawyers in entirely different states are of limited help.  I don’t think things would be complex enough to involve a lawyer except that, due to Reasons (which could be a post into itself), I am no contact with my mother and we need to have an ironclad plan to ensure that our kid(s) would go to the right guardian, and that she would not be able to find some legal visitation loophole.

And since I feel like I’ve gotta leave something here for y’all to sip tea over, there is no drama as of yet. However, my grandparents, both in their 80s, have a sizable fortune, and if I had to guess, my mother is the executor. No amount of money in the world could get me to deal with her. If it means I get nothing because I’d have to fight her over it, so be it. But I have heard that she has already tried selling some of their furniture (they are very much alive!). So I do not have high expectations of how that will all go down. Not my circus, not enough money in the world to make it my monkeys.

On the other hand, my dad retired early. He and my mother acrimoniously divorced some time ago, and he’s since remarried a lovely woman who is his executor. God willing, he’ll be around for a good long time, and none of this will come to pass or at least will be long in the future. Dad has done FAR more for my mother financially post-divorce than was required or even fair imho… could also be a drama post unto itself… and if she tries to give his new wife a hard time, or god forbid something happens to both him and new wife at the same time and I am appointed backup executor, and she gives me a hard time, I very well could go salted earth.

Who knows, though. If mother takes enough of her bleach miracle cures, none of this will be a problem. Not that I’d love that outcome, but the realist in me knows it’s a possibility.

SwordGuy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8928
  • Location: Fayetteville, NC
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2714 on: October 06, 2021, 12:42:06 PM »
@Britan,   contrary to most belief, most lawyers are not out to screw their clients.   

A simple will should be well within the competence of most.   Ask around locally for recommendations.

Write up what you want to happen in plain language.   Make it simple, use bullet points or if priority is important, numbered points.

Call a few and talk to them for a few minutes to get a feel for them.  Tell them what you want.  If they don't show an understanding of the details of what you want, walk.   

If you're really worried, hire one to write it and another to break and fix it.   

What metropolitan area is nearest to you, you might get lucky and get a recommendation here.   I know a good one in the Raleigh/Durham NC area, for example.

Britan

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 428
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2715 on: October 06, 2021, 01:08:11 PM »
Not so much a concern about a lawyer out to be malicious. But in any profession, if I just pick the first person I happen to see a sign for, I’d never know if they’re gonna half-ass it, especially if it isn’t a lot of income for them to do a simple will? My friend group used to be primarily childless PhD students, so I wouldn’t think any of them would have a recommendation. Though I suppose I could ask some of my kid and/or asset having local friends who might actually have a will drafted. Seems a weird topic of conversation to bring up I guess, haha.

Dee18

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2199
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2716 on: October 06, 2021, 01:14:12 PM »
I found a great attorney for my will & trust by asking many people at my new workplace.  Several of them had used and liked the same attorney so I went to her.  If there is a law school in your city you could email an Estates & Trusts professor there and ask for three names to consider.  The attorney I used was outstanding...to the point that my will is still appropriate 22 years later even though my assets are significantly greater.  She really helped me plan ahead. She also explained to me that I could use beneficiary designations for investment accounts, retirement accounts, and life insurance to easily change beneficiaries without re-writing the will.  It's worth finding a topnotch attorney.

Here is a short article raising some of the issues about choosing (or trying to choose) a guardian for a minor child.
https://www.nytimes.com/article/legal-guardian.html

I was a single parent and wanted the guardian to be a very close friend who was male and single and lived in another state. I lived in a conservative state where the law is that the judge decides what is "in the best interests of the minor child" and is not bound at all by the deceased parent(s)' wishes.  In my case my fear was that the court might designate my married sister.  She had no children and lived an extremely materialistic lifestyle.  (Years later she invited my 12 year old to visit her for several days...and then left her home alone in a strange neighborhood while going off to work, instead of doing the sightseeing and outings she and my daughter had planned.). My attorney advised me to, in addition to specifying my preference in my will, establish a record that supported my choice.  At the attorney's suggestion I wrote series of emails to a close girlfriend in which I discussed the issues and why my sister would not be a good guardian and my friend would.  (On my daughter's 18th birthday my girlfriend burned the record.) I also made sure we had at least annual visits with the potential guardian.  My daughter is now in her 20s and has a great relationship with both her designated guardian and my sister.   

mm1970

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 10813
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2717 on: October 06, 2021, 01:39:28 PM »
Not so much a concern about a lawyer out to be malicious. But in any profession, if I just pick the first person I happen to see a sign for, I’d never know if they’re gonna half-ass it, especially if it isn’t a lot of income for them to do a simple will? My friend group used to be primarily childless PhD students, so I wouldn’t think any of them would have a recommendation. Though I suppose I could ask some of my kid and/or asset having local friends who might actually have a will drafted. Seems a weird topic of conversation to bring up I guess, haha.
It's not at all a weird discussion to have.  We drafted our will and trust with a local attorney that we found by asking local friends with kids and houses.

clarkfan1979

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3347
  • Age: 44
  • Location: Pueblo West, CO
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2718 on: October 06, 2021, 01:42:58 PM »
This is a cautionary tale for parents leaving their children money. In my opinion, the child didn't do anything wrong. However, they were not mature enough and/or not emotionally ready to handle an inheritance of 250K.

My brother-in-law shared a story of a mutual friend who broke up with their girlfriend. The girlfriend was in their early to mid 20's and was gifted 250K of life insurance when her mom died a few years ago. She is a college grad and has a full-time job. Before the death she was able to fully support herself. However, after the death she was emotionally devastated and spent 200K of the 250K over the course of 3 years. She has nothing to show for it other than a car. At one point, she owned two cars. However, she has since sold the second car. 

What type of guard rails could you put up for your children to try to avoid this? Can anything be done?   


PDXTabs

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5160
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Vancouver, WA, USA
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2719 on: October 06, 2021, 01:47:18 PM »
This is a cautionary tale for parents leaving their children money. In my opinion, the child didn't do anything wrong. However, they were not mature enough and/or not emotionally ready to handle an inheritance of 250K.

My brother-in-law shared a story of a mutual friend who broke up with their girlfriend. The girlfriend was in their early to mid 20's and was gifted 250K of life insurance when her mom died a few years ago. She is a college grad and has a full-time job. Before the death she was able to fully support herself. However, after the death she was emotionally devastated and spent 200K of the 250K over the course of 3 years. She has nothing to show for it other than a car. At one point, she owned two cars. However, she has since sold the second car. 

What type of guard rails could you put up for your children to try to avoid this? Can anything be done?

I've seen this up close and personal. I'm in the middle of a protracted legal battle, but as soon as that legal issue is resolved I plan to setup a testamentary trust for my children and will probably just wait for them to be 30 before giving them the money. At that point, if they blow it, that's on them.

Villanelle

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6545
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2720 on: October 06, 2021, 01:52:21 PM »
You can release smaller chunks to the kids over time, or hold all of it until they are older, but neither is fool-proof.  It can give them more time to mature and hopefully make better decisions, but it may just postpone and/or spread out the waste. 

Adventine

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2421
  • Location: Memphis, USA
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2721 on: October 06, 2021, 02:04:12 PM »
This is a cautionary tale for parents leaving their children money. In my opinion, the child didn't do anything wrong. However, they were not mature enough and/or not emotionally ready to handle an inheritance of 250K.

My brother-in-law shared a story of a mutual friend who broke up with their girlfriend. The girlfriend was in their early to mid 20's and was gifted 250K of life insurance when her mom died a few years ago. She is a college grad and has a full-time job. Before the death she was able to fully support herself. However, after the death she was emotionally devastated and spent 200K of the 250K over the course of 3 years. She has nothing to show for it other than a car. At one point, she owned two cars. However, she has since sold the second car. 

What type of guard rails could you put up for your children to try to avoid this? Can anything be done?
The only durable guard rails I can think of are:- staggering the release of the life insurance payout- raising your kids with non-materialistic values

Otherwise, not much else to be done except hope that your kids hold on to those values after you pass.

Imma

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3193
  • Location: Europe
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2722 on: October 06, 2021, 02:26:22 PM »
This is a cautionary tale for parents leaving their children money. In my opinion, the child didn't do anything wrong. However, they were not mature enough and/or not emotionally ready to handle an inheritance of 250K.

My brother-in-law shared a story of a mutual friend who broke up with their girlfriend. The girlfriend was in their early to mid 20's and was gifted 250K of life insurance when her mom died a few years ago. She is a college grad and has a full-time job. Before the death she was able to fully support herself. However, after the death she was emotionally devastated and spent 200K of the 250K over the course of 3 years. She has nothing to show for it other than a car. At one point, she owned two cars. However, she has since sold the second car. 

What type of guard rails could you put up for your children to try to avoid this? Can anything be done?
The only durable guard rails I can think of are:- staggering the release of the life insurance payout- raising your kids with non-materialistic values

Otherwise, not much else to be done except hope that your kids hold on to those values after you pass.

I know my mother put a staggered release of funds in her will when we were younger. It was possible to get larger payments but only after the permission of a specially appointed trustee or a judge. The person who was appointed as a trustee was a proto-mustachian. This part was removed from the will when we all proved to be sensible with money.

Other than those options, there's not much you can do either way except raise your children well. I know of people who were in their 50s with a comfortable income who blew through an inhertance in no time, I also know a person who inherited a fairly large amount of money at the age of 18, made a mess of their whole life for years, but never ever touched the inheritance in their savings account. Still has it as far as I know, waiting to be used as a downpayment on a property some day (not the best option from a mustachian point of view, but there are lots of worse things to do with a 6-figure inheritance than putting it in a savings account and buying a family home eventually).

DadJokes

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2360
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2723 on: October 06, 2021, 03:02:23 PM »
This is a cautionary tale for parents leaving their children money. In my opinion, the child didn't do anything wrong. However, they were not mature enough and/or not emotionally ready to handle an inheritance of 250K.

My brother-in-law shared a story of a mutual friend who broke up with their girlfriend. The girlfriend was in their early to mid 20's and was gifted 250K of life insurance when her mom died a few years ago. She is a college grad and has a full-time job. Before the death she was able to fully support herself. However, after the death she was emotionally devastated and spent 200K of the 250K over the course of 3 years. She has nothing to show for it other than a car. At one point, she owned two cars. However, she has since sold the second car. 

What type of guard rails could you put up for your children to try to avoid this? Can anything be done?
The only durable guard rails I can think of are:- staggering the release of the life insurance payout- raising your kids with non-materialistic values

Otherwise, not much else to be done except hope that your kids hold on to those values after you pass.

I know my mother put a staggered release of funds in her will when we were younger. It was possible to get larger payments but only after the permission of a specially appointed trustee or a judge. The person who was appointed as a trustee was a proto-mustachian. This part was removed from the will when we all proved to be sensible with money.

Other than those options, there's not much you can do either way except raise your children well. I know of people who were in their 50s with a comfortable income who blew through an inhertance in no time, I also know a person who inherited a fairly large amount of money at the age of 18, made a mess of their whole life for years, but never ever touched the inheritance in their savings account. Still has it as far as I know, waiting to be used as a downpayment on a property some day (not the best option from a mustachian point of view, but there are lots of worse things to do with a 6-figure inheritance than putting it in a savings account and buying a family home eventually).

I'd agree that paying out smaller portions over time and raising money-smart adults are the best two options. A third option could be to severely limit how much the kids get, spreading the money around more.

Assuming that I'm a multi-millionaire by the time I die, I don't plan to leave all of my money to my only child, regardless of how responsible he is. I'll leave him a good amount, but hopefully not so much that it significantly impacts his life (other than speed up his time until FI). The rest would go to college funds & student loan debt of grandchildren, nieces, and nephews, followed by favorite charities.

Dee18

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2199
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2724 on: October 06, 2021, 03:18:53 PM »
The attorney who advised me, when my daughter was one and I got my first will, set up a revocable trust with my assets rolling over to that trust upon my death.  (A trust can be named as the beneficiary for life insurance, investment accounts, etc.)  I had a friend willing to be trustee and the terms (again recommended by the attorney) provided that until my daughter was 26 the trustee was in charge of the money and could use it to support her and for things like college and for travel. At 26 she would get 25% of the remaining money, at 30 she would get 30% of the remaining money, at 35 she would get 50% and the rest at age 40.  I was always very responsible with money so I was prepared to have it go to her at 25, but the attorney advised me that no one can predict how a one year old will be with money and my assets were likely to much higher by the time of my death. 

Zamboni

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3869
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2725 on: October 06, 2021, 04:09:39 PM »
Not so much a concern about a lawyer out to be malicious. But in any profession, if I just pick the first person I happen to see a sign for, I’d never know if they’re gonna half-ass it, especially if it isn’t a lot of income for them to do a simple will? My friend group used to be primarily childless PhD students, so I wouldn’t think any of them would have a recommendation. Though I suppose I could ask some of my kid and/or asset having local friends who might actually have a will drafted. Seems a weird topic of conversation to bring up I guess, haha.

We received lawyer recommendations from two people: the guy who finalized our term life insurance (you have that too, right?), and some friends we play cards with. Then I ended up going with a friend from college who had become a lawyer. He sent me a boilerplate questionaire over email, drew up a draft quick, and then we met at a copy shop to get it all signed and notarized.

From what you describe, you should be able to get everything you need (will, healthcare power of attorney) for about $300-500. I'd be skeptical of anyone who says it needs to cost more than that unless you already have millionaires of dollars and need a trust to avoid taxes.

You should definitely have a will with name guardians unless you want your child to end up in the foster care system temporarily in the event of your untimely death.

PDXTabs

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5160
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Vancouver, WA, USA
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2726 on: October 06, 2021, 04:43:15 PM »
One additional note: tax planning around inherited IRAs/401Ks in trusts is complicated.

Britan

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 428
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2727 on: October 06, 2021, 06:50:25 PM »
We received lawyer recommendations from two people: the guy who finalized our term life insurance (you have that too, right?), and some friends we play cards with. Then I ended up going with a friend from college who had become a lawyer. He sent me a boilerplate questionaire over email, drew up a draft quick, and then we met at a copy shop to get it all signed and notarized.

From what you describe, you should be able to get everything you need (will, healthcare power of attorney) for about $300-500. I'd be skeptical of anyone who says it needs to cost more than that unless you already have millionaires of dollars and need a trust to avoid taxes.

You should definitely have a will with name guardians unless you want your child to end up in the foster care system temporarily in the event of your untimely death.
Hahaha.  Did I mention we need to be adults? We gotta figure out life insurance too. My old workplace had an option. But now neither of our workplaces offer it.

Tbh, temporary foster care would be preferable to my closest (physical proximity) relative - my mother - swooping in for temporary custody.

Zamboni

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3869
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2728 on: October 07, 2021, 02:05:26 AM »
Hahaha.  Did I mention we need to be adults? We gotta figure out life insurance too. My old workplace had an option. But now neither of our workplaces offer it.

Tbh, temporary foster care would be preferable to my closest (physical proximity) relative - my mother - swooping in for temporary custody.

Yeah, buying something like life insurance can seem overwhelming. How do you know if you are getting a good deal?

But you are young, so this is the cheapest time for you both to get something like 20 year term life insurance (the kind that will be there to provide adequate resources for your child if something happens.) Often for younger adults there is a short health questionnaire asking about things like smoking but no physical exam, so it isn't a big deal to get it.

My advice is to just pick an amount of coverage you want (we went with $1 million for each of us) and a term length you want (we went with 20 years because we were slackers and our youngest was already 3 years old) and get quote from three places. Maybe start with the company that provides your car or home insurance first?
As far as picking some other reputable companies for quotes, Nerd Wallet even has a little estimate calculator and did the legwork for you.
https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/insurance/term-life-insurance/

Then you'll definitely need a will because you'll need to name who will have custody and who will MANAGE THAT MONEY for your offspring . . . the custody and money management doesn't have to be the same person. I actually think it's better if it is different people, but your mileage may vary. Which reminds me that our local credit union also offers basic estate planning and referrals for wills. That's another place you could ask about it.

Good luck!

I still can't believe that crazy turn with the will: yet more evidence of my theory that God has a sense of irony. 

Having been through awfulness, there is one lone upside of dealing with crazy people: it leaves you in a situation to (hopefully) share something of use to someone like you who's just now in the midst of crazy, in hopes of helping you pull through in a better fashion without having to learn some things the hard way.  I'm impressed that Mr. Z is already no-contact; you both are ahead of the situation and that will serve you well.

It's not his first rodeo with DotLWaT . . . this was just the least avoidable situation. He was already very low contact out of self-preservation. The illness and death just gave her (in her mind) lots of reasons she needed to contact him over and over. Her machinations to be in charge of the estate management is just an extension of that. 

During the grave illness and immediately afterwards, he had to balance what he needed to do for the deceased and his other relatives with his desire to not interact with DotLWaT.

Sugaree

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1646
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2729 on: October 07, 2021, 06:16:07 AM »
This is a cautionary tale for parents leaving their children money. In my opinion, the child didn't do anything wrong. However, they were not mature enough and/or not emotionally ready to handle an inheritance of 250K.

My brother-in-law shared a story of a mutual friend who broke up with their girlfriend. The girlfriend was in their early to mid 20's and was gifted 250K of life insurance when her mom died a few years ago. She is a college grad and has a full-time job. Before the death she was able to fully support herself. However, after the death she was emotionally devastated and spent 200K of the 250K over the course of 3 years. She has nothing to show for it other than a car. At one point, she owned two cars. However, she has since sold the second car. 

What type of guard rails could you put up for your children to try to avoid this? Can anything be done?

I've seen this in action with a close friend.  I estimate that she's blown through at least $500k of life insurance money in the last three years since her husband died.  Some decisions weren't that bad, like paying off her house and buying a rental property.  Some were horrible, like the in-ground heated pool or vehicle large enough that each kid has their own zip code inside of it, or the yearly trips to Disney. 

It's definitely had an impact on how I want my estate plans to look.  My kid's guardianship will be separated from the money.  My parents would be the current choice for guardianship, but a trustee would release funds at regular intervals.  I'm not saying that my parents would have him living under the stairs like Harry Potter, but I bet he'd end up taking a whole lot of cruises on his dime. 

TomTX

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5345
  • Location: Texas
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2730 on: October 07, 2021, 08:35:50 AM »
Even cheaper than Costco, if you don't require varnish:
https://mountmichael.org/mount-michael-abbeys-caskets/

Ha, if you want cheap - I've been clear that I'm perfectly happy (and would actually prefer) if someone wants to slap together a box from the plywood and lumber I have in the garage. Then invite guests to draw/paint/whatever on it.

In a nod to the old tradition of having a bell, perhaps I should ask to be buried with my bicycle bell.

Britan

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 428
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2731 on: October 07, 2021, 09:00:56 AM »
@Zamboni thank you so much for this! Still feels a little overwhelming, but less so, since I have somewhere to start. A narrow list of 3-4 companies off the Nerd Wallet list, to get quotes from sounds manageable. And in a weird way I’m glad to know I’m not the only one who put it off.

Also good luck with DotLW. I too have no-contact relatives, so I have much sympathy for anyone else in a similar position.

Zamboni

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3869
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2732 on: October 07, 2021, 09:19:09 AM »
^TomTX, You should definitely be buried with your bicycle bell!

It's definitely had an impact on how I want my estate plans to look.  My kid's guardianship will be separated from the money.  My parents would be the current choice for guardianship, but a trustee would release funds at regular intervals.  I'm not saying that my parents would have him living under the stairs like Harry Potter, but I bet he'd end up taking a whole lot of cruises on his dime. 

I share this issue, and so I gave the purse strings to my stingiest relative. She's not great at investing, but she's not a spender, so my hope was that she would just follow my lead on where to keep it parked in index funds. I thought about having my local credit union act as trustee. They charge 1% per year to manage the estate, releasing funds only for the health, education, welfare, and maintenance of the child.

Otherwise, yeah, in the hands of other relatives there would be "family" cruises. And home remodels. And new bigger cars. I don't begrudge someone who is taking care of my kids having money to be comfortable, but odds that it would be wiped out before the kids reached adulthood are high.

I've seen plenty of advice to delay giving inheritance to young adult children. Sometimes the advice is given with caveats like "they will meet some gold digger who will then divorce them and take half the money." I even had my will set up that way for awhile, a delay for full disbursement until they were 30 years old. However, I've also seen plenty of examples of people in their 40's, 50's, and 60's who are spendthrifts and will blow through huge amounts in no time. There are even TV shows about it like Money Moron and Til Debt Do Us Part.

So, now that my kids are young adults, they will just get it directly. I updated my will when they turned 18 to just give it straight to them because the named trustee is starting to have memory problems. I don't have any other viable trustee options in my family. So it's straight to the young adult kids or a trustee like a lawyer or bank who will take a cut.

This weekend I'm going to work on updating my estate planning and I will write both children letters to put in my estate planning portfolio. That way my "wishes" for what they do with the money will be clear: hookers and blow.

Just kidding. I probably will write something like "take 5-10% of the money and get yourself a limited amount of some discrete fun things you really want right now, like maybe a vacation or vehicle or furniture or some clothes, etc. Remember me while you are living well enjoying that! Then the party is temporarily over. Please keep the rest parked in passive Vanguard stock index funds using the advice from here, here and here. Don't touch the principal! Let's this money grow from this little pile to a giant pile in 10-20 years by riding out dips in the market without meddling. That's what Warren Buffet wants for his children, and that's what I want for you."

But, after all, I'll be dead, so I'll just have to trust that they absorbed some common sense about how to manage money from our conversations and from watching how my financial situation improved over time. They already have Vanguard Roth IRA's, after all.

DadJokes

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2360
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2733 on: October 07, 2021, 09:54:38 AM »
Even cheaper than Costco, if you don't require varnish:
https://mountmichael.org/mount-michael-abbeys-caskets/

Ha, if you want cheap - I've been clear that I'm perfectly happy (and would actually prefer) if someone wants to slap together a box from the plywood and lumber I have in the garage. Then invite guests to draw/paint/whatever on it.

In a nod to the old tradition of having a bell, perhaps I should ask to be buried with my bicycle bell.

I wish to be buried with a machete, just in case I come back as a zombie.

RetiredAt63

  • CMTO 2023 Attendees
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *
  • Posts: 20625
  • Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2734 on: October 07, 2021, 10:42:48 AM »
Even cheaper than Costco, if you don't require varnish:
https://mountmichael.org/mount-michael-abbeys-caskets/

Ha, if you want cheap - I've been clear that I'm perfectly happy (and would actually prefer) if someone wants to slap together a box from the plywood and lumber I have in the garage. Then invite guests to draw/paint/whatever on it.

In a nod to the old tradition of having a bell, perhaps I should ask to be buried with my bicycle bell.

I wish to be buried with a machete, just in case I come back as a zombie.

Wouldn't a hand axe or hatchet do better for chopping your way out of the coffin?

Hmm, I was planning on cremation, but how do I reincarnate as a zombie if I am just a pile of ashes?

TomTX

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5345
  • Location: Texas
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2735 on: October 07, 2021, 11:02:29 AM »
Even cheaper than Costco, if you don't require varnish:
https://mountmichael.org/mount-michael-abbeys-caskets/

Ha, if you want cheap - I've been clear that I'm perfectly happy (and would actually prefer) if someone wants to slap together a box from the plywood and lumber I have in the garage. Then invite guests to draw/paint/whatever on it.

In a nod to the old tradition of having a bell, perhaps I should ask to be buried with my bicycle bell.

I wish to be buried with a machete, just in case I come back as a zombie.

Okay, I am really fond of my machete. Hm.

DadJokes

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2360
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2736 on: October 07, 2021, 12:40:00 PM »
Even cheaper than Costco, if you don't require varnish:
https://mountmichael.org/mount-michael-abbeys-caskets/

Ha, if you want cheap - I've been clear that I'm perfectly happy (and would actually prefer) if someone wants to slap together a box from the plywood and lumber I have in the garage. Then invite guests to draw/paint/whatever on it.

In a nod to the old tradition of having a bell, perhaps I should ask to be buried with my bicycle bell.

I wish to be buried with a machete, just in case I come back as a zombie.

Wouldn't a hand axe or hatchet do better for chopping your way out of the coffin?


Maybe I should go for a mausoleum then.

Wolfpack Mustachian

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1859
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2737 on: October 07, 2021, 01:14:11 PM »
Even cheaper than Costco, if you don't require varnish:
https://mountmichael.org/mount-michael-abbeys-caskets/

Ha, if you want cheap - I've been clear that I'm perfectly happy (and would actually prefer) if someone wants to slap together a box from the plywood and lumber I have in the garage. Then invite guests to draw/paint/whatever on it.

In a nod to the old tradition of having a bell, perhaps I should ask to be buried with my bicycle bell.

I wish to be buried with a machete, just in case I come back as a zombie.

Wouldn't a hand axe or hatchet do better for chopping your way out of the coffin?

Hmm, I was planning on cremation, but how do I reincarnate as a zombie if I am just a pile of ashes?

I thought they were being considerate of others and providing a means nearby for someone to dispatch them  if necessary...

ixtap

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4538
  • Age: 51
  • Location: SoCal
    • Our Sea Story
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2738 on: October 07, 2021, 01:19:08 PM »
Even cheaper than Costco, if you don't require varnish:
https://mountmichael.org/mount-michael-abbeys-caskets/

Ha, if you want cheap - I've been clear that I'm perfectly happy (and would actually prefer) if someone wants to slap together a box from the plywood and lumber I have in the garage. Then invite guests to draw/paint/whatever on it.

In a nod to the old tradition of having a bell, perhaps I should ask to be buried with my bicycle bell.

I wish to be buried with a machete, just in case I come back as a zombie.

Wouldn't a hand axe or hatchet do better for chopping your way out of the coffin?

Hmm, I was planning on cremation, but how do I reincarnate as a zombie if I am just a pile of ashes?

I thought they were being considerate of others and providing a means nearby for someone to dispatch them  if necessary...

I thought they were planning on being the baddest ass zombie...

So how do all of those urban zombies get out of their sealed coffins in cement vaults? Doesn't seem like a hatchet nor a machete is going to be much use against a steel coffin nor the cement vault...

rpr

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 718
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2739 on: October 07, 2021, 05:12:33 PM »

partgypsy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5168
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2740 on: October 09, 2021, 09:32:04 PM »
I was surprised how much it cost, considering there was no funeral (there was graveside service). The plot was already paid for. We did purchase a solid wood casket as that is customary but from another company so "reasonable". 

https://www.costco.com/funeral-caskets.html
I have a membership! But we were on a time crunch. We did purchase a nice casket from "best price" caskets that was flown up in time for all the preparations. Recommend.

okonumiyaki

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 190
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2741 on: October 11, 2021, 02:42:38 AM »
Zamboni - has anyone told the ex-spouse they are in the will?  If they have a grudge vs DotW, they may be willing to take up cudgels.  As it were.

partgypsy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5168
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2742 on: October 11, 2021, 10:59:38 AM »
Zamboni - has anyone told the ex-spouse they are in the will?  If they have a grudge vs DotW, they may be willing to take up cudgels.  As it were.

that might be an even match : )

zolotiyeruki

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5577
  • Location: State: Denial
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2743 on: October 11, 2021, 02:00:40 PM »
Zamboni - has anyone told the ex-spouse they are in the will?  If they have a grudge vs DotW, they may be willing to take up cudgels.  As it were.

that might be an even match : )
Zamboni and the other sane siblings could sell tickets, as a way of getting what they deserved from the estate in the first place! :P

Mighty Eyebrows

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 238
  • Location: Vancouver Island, Canada
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2744 on: October 11, 2021, 06:14:25 PM »
I'd agree that paying out smaller portions over time and raising money-smart adults are the best two options.

Yeah. If you plan on still having wealth when you die, you should plan like a wealthy person and prepare your heirs. You can either raise smart kids (not always replicable, but worth the effort) or you can assume they will be dumb and force a trust on them.

Now, how are they going to raise their own kids (your grandkids) if they only "magically" get some trust money when they are 40 years old? Good money practices have to become a multi-generational family strategy.

Otherwise:
Fu Bu Guo San Dai ( 富不过三代)

Wealth does not pass three generations...

Zamboni

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3869
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2745 on: October 11, 2021, 11:10:13 PM »
Zamboni - has anyone told the ex-spouse they are in the will?  If they have a grudge vs DotW, they may be willing to take up cudgels.  As it were.

I doubt it. Ex-spouse and DotW have gone at each other before and tried to get people to take sides, so it wouldn't be anything new.  Everyone else is just tired of their drama.

Ex-spouse is elderly and lives in a flood-prone very low rent apartment. Therefore, ex-spouse actually needs a home and food money, whereas everyone else bickering over the scraps really does not. I'm staying out of it, though.

Fi(re) on the Farm

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 253
  • Location: New Englandish
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2746 on: October 12, 2021, 06:50:40 AM »
The attorney who advised me, when my daughter was one and I got my first will, set up a revocable trust with my assets rolling over to that trust upon my death.  (A trust can be named as the beneficiary for life insurance, investment accounts, etc.)  I had a friend willing to be trustee and the terms (again recommended by the attorney) provided that until my daughter was 26 the trustee was in charge of the money and could use it to support her and for things like college and for travel. At 26 she would get 25% of the remaining money, at 30 she would get 30% of the remaining money, at 35 she would get 50% and the rest at age 40.  I was always very responsible with money so I was prepared to have it go to her at 25, but the attorney advised me that no one can predict how a one year old will be with money and my assets were likely to much higher by the time of my death.

My ex-husband is notoriously bad with money. When his mother died 5 years ago the estate was over a million. Ex-SIL, who was the executor, got her payout of the estate immediately but the will  specified that my ex, who was 56 at the time, get his money in 4 equal payments on the anniversary of her death minus 100k for my kids. He blew through the money every year before the next payment and he would call his sister screaming that he needed the money. Needless to say ex-SIL no longer speaks to him.

partgypsy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5168
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2747 on: October 13, 2021, 06:02:14 AM »
So, is there a recommended way to set up trusts for someone who won't be responsible with money? I've seen all kinds of different payout ages and frequency of payment. Unless the person gets a monthly stipend for life it seems like there is no way to protect against someone blowing through money, even though I agree one lump payment seems the worst of all. I wonder if there is a happy medium, that is less work for an executor but give the person "training wheels" so to speak. 
« Last Edit: October 13, 2021, 06:09:10 AM by partgypsy »

SwordGuy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8928
  • Location: Fayetteville, NC
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2748 on: October 13, 2021, 06:23:28 AM »
So, is there a recommended way to set up trusts for someone who won't be responsible with money? I've seen all kinds of different payout ages and frequency of payment. Unless the person gets a monthly stipend for life it seems like there is no way to protect against someone blowing through money, even though I agree one lump payment seems the worst of all. I wonder if there is a happy medium, that is less work for an executor but give the person "training wheels" so to speak.

The only other approach I know of is the film "Brewster's Millions".   But the person receiving the money had the capacity to learn from it, and the willful lack of that capacity is why most plans fail.    Even monthly payments can be squandered in 2-4 days leaving the rest of the month with no money.

former player

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8738
  • Location: Avalon
Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2749 on: October 13, 2021, 06:36:49 AM »
So, is there a recommended way to set up trusts for someone who won't be responsible with money? I've seen all kinds of different payout ages and frequency of payment. Unless the person gets a monthly stipend for life it seems like there is no way to protect against someone blowing through money, even though I agree one lump payment seems the worst of all. I wonder if there is a happy medium, that is less work for an executor but give the person "training wheels" so to speak.
If you haven't managed to "train" someone in your lifetime then expecting someone else to succeed where you have failed is unreasonable.

There is such a thing as a "discretionary trust" which means that the trustee (who may or may not be the same person as an executor) can decide how much money is disbursed, when and for what purpose, and your wishes can be taken into account by the trustee (eg money for education and housing only before a certain age and after that at the trustee's discretion).  It's a heavy burden on someone though to make them the regulator of someone else's chaotic life.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!