Author Topic: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.  (Read 1424304 times)

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3200 on: September 27, 2023, 01:10:08 PM »
Anyway, the trust was written so that his 2nd wife can live on the interest and principal, and the kids get nothing until she dies.  She lived to be 98 - 18 years past when my grandfather died (I know my story is in the early pages here).

I mean, by the time she died, my mother and an aunt had already passed, so I ended up with 1/12 of the smaller trust directly (about $10k).

You're lucky it was in a trust. Second spouses are notorious for draining the estate for the benefit of their own bio-kids, their pool boys, or the Johnny-come-lately professional bibble-babblers. There's always a flock of those buzzards circling around the elderly and infirm, if they have anything worth the effort of guilting them out of it. My paternal grandfather encountered some near the end of his life, and he intentionally strung them along because he was concerned that he wouldn't get emergency assistance otherwise when he needed it. Brilliant old man-- I do miss him.

mm1970

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3201 on: September 27, 2023, 03:50:31 PM »
Anyway, the trust was written so that his 2nd wife can live on the interest and principal, and the kids get nothing until she dies.  She lived to be 98 - 18 years past when my grandfather died (I know my story is in the early pages here).

I mean, by the time she died, my mother and an aunt had already passed, so I ended up with 1/12 of the smaller trust directly (about $10k).

You're lucky it was in a trust. Second spouses are notorious for draining the estate for the benefit of their own bio-kids, their pool boys, or the Johnny-come-lately professional bibble-babblers. There's always a flock of those buzzards circling around the elderly and infirm, if they have anything worth the effort of guilting them out of it. My paternal grandfather encountered some near the end of his life, and he intentionally strung them along because he was concerned that he wouldn't get emergency assistance otherwise when he needed it. Brilliant old man-- I do miss him.
About half of the sibs were bitter about the 2nd marriage and the "money-grubbing 2nd spouse".  Fun fact: she was absolutely lovely, and raised 12 kids basically on her own because her husband was an alcoholic and died young.  Also: she worked as a librarian, and had a pension and her own house.  So, many years after my grandfather died, she moved back to her own home (near a few of her kids), sold the house to my cousin and his wife.  The last time I saw her was at my mother's funeral.  Absolutely amazing woman, but the uncles were worried she's spend their inheritance.  She didn't.

Zamboni

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3202 on: September 27, 2023, 03:56:39 PM »
Johnny-come-lately professional bibble-babblers

You always find a way to make me laugh, Squeak. Yes, the world is full of those. As I get older I see them sniffing around more and more.

I doubt that most of the well-meaning people who set up their wills are expecting a bunch of bickering from their offspring. Which doesn't make sense to me as so many siblings grow up bickering. I have no patience for it, but it's a fairly normal sibling dynamic.

In the case of my grandfather, he set up the pot of money he intended for his kids in a way that protected it from his two SIL's. He believed, I'm sure quite correctly, that his kind and dear wife would give away all of the money he had saved to her sisters just as soon as he wasn't holding the purse strings. And he was right, of course, every nickel that wasn't nailed down did indeed get funneled to the sisters while grandmother was still alive. Because they "needed it." As far as I could tell, neither sister had ever worked, and one of them had moved in with grandmother and grandfather when my dad was still a kid, so probably they did need it. They grew up in a different time, though, when it was much more difficult for women to find reasonable jobs.

I have a friend as my executor. She agreed to do it and she is efficient, competent, and well-off financially, so I don't expect her to wig out at the amounts of money involved. More importantly, she grew up in a funeral home, so she is very familiar with the sometimes bizarre behavior of the bereaved.

Could one of my adult kids do it? Yes. But my children have very different personalities and very different "negotiating styles." Basically one is 100% extroverted and a thunderous force of nature (ESFP), and the other one is 90% introverted and as calm and quiet as a crystal clear lake on a windless day (INTP). This is just how they are. Years of watching them interact has taught me that the serene one will let the thunderous one have more than his share just to keep the peace and avoid any kerfuffle. Many systems have been put into place by me as they grew up to avoid this dynamic. That's not a ideal situation for either of them to be executor. I don't think of either of them as greedy, but having a third party as executor will hopefully mean they are in it together. My goal is for me to die before they do with little drama afterwards and with each having the perception that they are getting as fair an inheritance as possible . . .  at least as far as money goes.

After all, it is impossible to assign value to certain sentimental things, and sometimes the distribution of those causes the biggest rifts. If you've seen Succession, I liked how Connor used the sticker method for people expressing interest in things in their late Dad's house . . . one of the few things that went pretty well in that family (assuming that no one else wanted the war medal collection, which Connor had set aside for himself prior to the opening of the stickerfest.)

Greystache

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3203 on: September 28, 2023, 09:02:58 AM »
I really thought I was going to have a story for this forum. My MIL died earlier this year after years in assisted living followed by rapid decline after a stroke. DW and I live 1500 miles away. SIL lived in the same city and assumed most of the responsibility of day to day care for MIL (POA, regular visits, etc.).  DW would make a couple extended visits per year and did on-line grocery shopping for MIL, but SIL thought she should do more. Toward the end, they had a major falling out and now no longer speak to each other. SIL was named executor and I expected some sort of retribution. To my pleasant surprise, SIL did an excellent job as executor and quickly and equitably settled the estate. Our share of the estate was low six figures. We don't need the money and thought it was silly to sit on it until we died, so we are in the process of giving it to our children and grandchildren. No drama. Sad that DW and SIL are not talking, but frankly, life is simpler since they went no contact.

iris lily

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3204 on: October 03, 2023, 08:18:57 AM »
Any reference to Succession makes me happy!
« Last Edit: October 03, 2023, 05:06:23 PM by iris lily »

SwordGuy

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3205 on: October 03, 2023, 01:32:03 PM »
My mother-in-law passed away last week.  One daughter and both sons will be reasonable.
My wife's sister, well, we'll see.

I'm expecting a shit show from her, but maybe she'll just take her 1/4th and call it a day.  We can hope.

Well, it's been a week, the funds are beginning to arrive, and so far, not a peep that I'm aware of.

I'm keeping our fingers crossed!

Catbert

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3206 on: October 05, 2023, 12:27:12 PM »
My mother-in-law passed away last week.  One daughter and both sons will be reasonable.
My wife's sister, well, we'll see.

I'm expecting a shit show from her, but maybe she'll just take her 1/4th and call it a day.  We can hope.

Well, it's been a week, the funds are beginning to arrive, and so far, not a peep that I'm aware of.

I'm keeping our fingers crossed!

It would be rude of us to hope it turns into a shitshow for our enjoyment, right?  Okay, I'll try not to wish that.

Chris Pascale

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3207 on: October 05, 2023, 08:50:45 PM »
My mother-in-law passed away last week.  One daughter and both sons will be reasonable.
My wife's sister, well, we'll see.

I'm expecting a shit show from her, but maybe she'll just take her 1/4th and call it a day.  We can hope.

Well, it's been a week, the funds are beginning to arrive, and so far, not a peep that I'm aware of.

I'm keeping our fingers crossed!

It would be rude of us to hope it turns into a shitshow for our enjoyment, right?  Okay, I'll try not to wish that.

It is our right to be entertained.

Chris Pascale

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3208 on: October 05, 2023, 08:51:50 PM »
Any reference to Succession makes me happy!

Five is a nightmare. You can't do anything with five.

Chris Pascale

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3209 on: October 05, 2023, 08:55:24 PM »
.......sibs were bitter about the 2nd marriage and the "money-grubbing 2nd spouse"...........she worked as a librarian, and had a pension.......

Money-grubbing pensioner librarians; you gotta watch out for them.

I think this is one of those cases where you get wrapped up in a combination of maybe what you would do, or what your worst fear of the situation is.

Zamboni

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3210 on: October 06, 2023, 03:02:22 AM »
Any reference to Succession makes me happy!

Five is a nightmare. You can't do anything with five.

Lol, those two were the icing on the cake. We are all Greg, but without the five  . . . or 250 . . . or whatever it is.

iris lily

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3211 on: October 06, 2023, 09:16:14 AM »
My mother-in-law passed away last week.  One daughter and both sons will be reasonable.
My wife's sister, well, we'll see.

I'm expecting a shit show from her, but maybe she'll just take her 1/4th and call it a day.  We can hope.

Well, it's been a week, the funds are beginning to arrive, and so far, not a peep that I'm aware of.

I'm keeping our fingers crossed!

It would be rude of us to hope it turns into a shitshow for our enjoyment, right?  Okay, I'll try not to wish that.

It is our right to be entertained.

These family dramas are interesting when they don’t strike close to our heart.

Yesterday DH placed a phone call to his sister, the sister who took us to court twice over family inheritance. He called her because it was her birthday, and it is their family tradition to call each other on their birthdays.

“She picked up the phone! “ he said happily. They talked for 11 minutes. Perhaps that little family rift has lessened, who knows although I think this sister will not speak to the other sister who was the executor of the estate, and a competent one may I add.

Me,I just kind of sat back and enjoyed the drama during it all.mIt was rather fun to have a knock on our front door at 7 o’clock one morning to be served with court papers. I’ve never been summoned to court before. Kind of makes a good story

« Last Edit: October 06, 2023, 09:17:55 AM by iris lily »

iris lily

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3212 on: October 06, 2023, 09:19:11 AM »
Any reference to Succession makes me happy!

Five is a nightmare. You can't do anything with five.

Don’t you know it! Maybe a couple of Armanis hanging in your closet. One German car. But that’s about it, no good houses, no private planes, don’t even think about boats.

markbike528CBX

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3213 on: October 06, 2023, 10:27:34 PM »
My mother-in-law passed away last week.  One daughter and both sons will be reasonable.
My wife's sister, well, we'll see.

I'm expecting a shit show from her, but maybe she'll just take her 1/4th and call it a day.  We can hope.

Well, it's been a week, the funds are beginning to arrive, and so far, not a peep that I'm aware of.

I'm keeping our fingers crossed!

It would be rude of us to hope it turns into a shitshow for our enjoyment, right?  Okay, I'll try not to wish that.

It is our right to be entertained.
Quote
Here we are now, entertain us
I feel stupid, and contagious
Here we are now, entertain us. -Teen Spirit , Nirvana

Turtle

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3214 on: October 23, 2023, 11:35:32 AM »
Extended family drama brewing here.  Someone died without a will and the surviving step parent is being a jerk about family items.

Said surviving step parent doesn't ever read anything in full and apparently is unaware that in their state biological children are entitled to half the deceased parent's assets if there's no will.  Children would have been perfectly happy with getting the sentimental family items which they want and not going after their share of the house, car, bank accounts, etc.

But because the step parent is a drama addict, the lawyers will get money and the kids won't be any worse off than they would have been if they hadn't pushed for probate.

jeninco

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3215 on: October 24, 2023, 02:07:13 PM »
Extended family drama brewing here.  Someone died without a will and the surviving step parent is being a jerk about family items.

Said surviving step parent doesn't ever read anything in full and apparently is unaware that in their state biological children are entitled to half the deceased parent's assets if there's no will.  Children would have been perfectly happy with getting the sentimental family items which they want and not going after their share of the house, car, bank accounts, etc.

But because the step parent is a drama addict, the lawyers will get money and the kids won't be any worse off than they would have been if they hadn't pushed for probate.

Ouch, I'm sorry.

We're also having a low-drama event here: my BIL died, but he was already living in a house my husband owned, and all the bills except internet are in my name (this was a situation we all explicitly agreed to in advance, and continued to be comfortable with). Other than the mortuary insisting that their 86-year-old mother figure out how to e-sign the forms for the cremation (she's 1000 miles away) and the massive, humongous amount of (mostly high-quality) stuff in the house that we're just starting to deal with, NBD (other than someone dying. As MrINCO put it, "even though you knew they were going to die pretty soon, you didn't know it'd be, like, today.")

Now if we can just find out to whom he'd promised the somewhat disassembled 1.5 BMW motorcycles so we can clear that first 16 sf of the garage floor to use as a staging area for the next layer of stuff....

Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3216 on: October 24, 2023, 04:00:50 PM »
Good for you for doing right by him, in whatever form you were comfortable with. I'm sorry for your loss, but it sounds like it wasn't unexpected (none of us knows exactly what day we'll die, right?). Would it be possible to frame the property cleanout as a treasure hunt? I know it's a metric crap-ton of work, and I wish you the best getting through it.

jeninco

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3217 on: October 24, 2023, 06:56:42 PM »
Good for you for doing right by him, in whatever form you were comfortable with. I'm sorry for your loss, but it sounds like it wasn't unexpected (none of us knows exactly what day we'll die, right?). Would it be possible to frame the property cleanout as a treasure hunt? I know it's a metric crap-ton of work, and I wish you the best getting through it.

Oh, it's 100% a treasure hunt: turns out that several decades of working in the trades, plus his personality, means that 80% of the metric crap-ton of stuff is really high quality. IT's just ... a LOT. This is a man who, rather than having one high-quality orbital sander and changing the grit of the sandpaper on it, had ... let's go with "several", each with different sandpaper already on it. And it's that way with about  EVERYTHING. He also had a bit of a cast-iron fetish (he sand-blasted or soda-blasted the ones that weren't smooth enough), and there are amazing cast-iron pots and pans all over the place. I'll be thrilled to take, like, three. Perhaps 4: the tiny little ones would be great for heating up spices for indian dishes. But 2 dozen? I probably in whole or in part cook 330 meals/year for us (I make the granola and yogurt, too), but I currently have and use 5 pots and 4 or 5 pans.

The whole first round of work basically consists of "create a little space, then gather all the items of this type, and put them here. Then we can see what's even all over the place." 

Of course, there are also several motorcycle wiring harnesses in what normal people would call the "living room", and MrINCO is loathe to move them lest he inadvertently miss some important motorcycle part... (There's also a stereo system in there so nice that we needed to use our kid, who is getting a music degree AND an EE degree, and helped with the setup, to help us identify all the parts and wires and stuff.)

It's a lot. We're planning for it to take on the order of 5 months.

Dragging this back round, perhaps when family comes to visit there will be a bit of drama? Their sister loves selling stuff online (not that she could identify 70% of what's in that house either...)

Sibley

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3218 on: October 25, 2023, 11:37:01 AM »
jeninco, this sounds like you might want to look for an auction house or something that has the contacts to really get the word out for a sale to the people who want to buy this stuff. You might try asking local union halls, etc if you don't have the knowledge yourself.

ATtiny85

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3219 on: October 25, 2023, 01:03:51 PM »
jeninco, this sounds like you might want to look for an auction house or something that has the contacts to really get the word out for a sale to the people who want to buy this stuff. You might try asking local union halls, etc if you don't have the knowledge yourself.

Yeah, I go with some extended family members to a lot of estate auctions here in the Midwest, and it seems to work. The good auctioneers do a great job of assessing and squeezing value out (then take their % of course, but worth it in most cases). I have found that quality items, when listed on the pre-read flyer, will pull high rollers if in fact there is value.

However, this a required first step is getting MrINCO 'adjusted' to the method...

... MrINCO is loathe to move them lest he inadvertently miss some important motorcycle part...

jeninco

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3220 on: October 25, 2023, 03:29:24 PM »
jeninco, this sounds like you might want to look for an auction house or something that has the contacts to really get the word out for a sale to the people who want to buy this stuff. You might try asking local union halls, etc if you don't have the knowledge yourself.

Yeah, I go with some extended family members to a lot of estate auctions here in the Midwest, and it seems to work. The good auctioneers do a great job of assessing and squeezing value out (then take their % of course, but worth it in most cases). I have found that quality items, when listed on the pre-read flyer, will pull high rollers if in fact there is value.

However, this a required first step is getting MrINCO 'adjusted' to the method...

... MrINCO is loathe to move them lest he inadvertently miss some important motorcycle part...

Thanks for the suggestions! He's actually suggested having some kind of sale ... but first we need to get some sense of what's there.
Fortunately, I found a place that will take donations of (still packaged and sealed) medical supplies, so we may be on our way to clearing out a bit of space...

merula

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3221 on: October 25, 2023, 06:34:52 PM »
@jeninco, hugs to you and thanks for the flash into my future if my BIL predeceases us. Although he's now in treatment for various compulsive diagnoses, so maybe things will change.

jeninco

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3222 on: October 26, 2023, 10:59:44 AM »
@jeninco, hugs to you and thanks for the flash into my future if my BIL predeceases us. Although he's now in treatment for various compulsive diagnoses, so maybe things will change.

Thanks, I'll take them!

Things in our favor:
- We live in the next town over, and the neighbors are keeping an eye on the place, so once I finish getting the food out there's really no rush on this (we'll rent it eventually, but can afford to take our time with this)
- We knew this was coming, so were generally mentally prepared
- He knew this was coming, and actually made some efforts to get rid of the worst of the mess (a pile that we thought was old computers, under some sheet metal in the yard, turned out to just be a couple bales of sphagnum moss, for instance)

We're probably headed up this afternoon to spend two hours or so taking more stuff out of the kitchen (I already removed everything that was not 100% sealed and edible by bugs or mice)   Small time increments!

AMandM

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3223 on: October 26, 2023, 11:38:52 AM »
Dragging this back round, perhaps when family comes to visit there will be a bit of drama? Their sister loves selling stuff online (not that she could identify 70% of what's in that house either...)

Hey, maybe you can turn this to your advantage and reduce the work of disposing of stuff.  Make a pile of "things for Sis to sell on behalf of the estate."

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3224 on: October 27, 2023, 06:08:44 AM »
That's what Mum is doing with Dad's miniature train collection and accessories. My BIL and a nephew with a lot of spare time have offered to sell it for the estate. Nephew went to a proper dealer store, but was offered peanuts, so online selling it is! I told Mum where she could find Dad's catawiki-password (where he bought most of his items) and they will take it there, or at least base their prices on what Dad paid for it.

AMandM

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3225 on: October 27, 2023, 08:14:05 AM »
That's what Mum is doing with Dad's miniature train collection and accessories. My BIL and a nephew with a lot of spare time have offered to sell it for the estate. Nephew went to a proper dealer store, but was offered peanuts, so online selling it is! I told Mum where she could find Dad's catawiki-password (where he bought most of his items) and they will take it there, or at least base their prices on what Dad paid for it.

There's a lesson here for anyone who owns specialized objects of value: either dispose of them before you die, or leave clear information for your heirs about the best way to do so. A cousin of mine was a historian of British military uniforms and had a large collection--thousands of pieces. It took a long time for his widow to find a place that would accept the collection as a gift (he wanted it to stay together and return to England).

Sibley

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3226 on: October 27, 2023, 08:50:19 AM »
That's what Mum is doing with Dad's miniature train collection and accessories. My BIL and a nephew with a lot of spare time have offered to sell it for the estate. Nephew went to a proper dealer store, but was offered peanuts, so online selling it is! I told Mum where she could find Dad's catawiki-password (where he bought most of his items) and they will take it there, or at least base their prices on what Dad paid for it.

The bolded bit - NO. It doesn't matter what he paid for it. What matters is what people will pay for it now. It's a different mindset, and one that a lot of people struggle with. It's easier if you don't know the original purchase price. If this catawiki place sells things, then use that data, preferably actual sold price data, to figure out what to price things at. You can also look at sales on Ebay to see what things sold for.

iris lily

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3227 on: October 27, 2023, 09:21:11 AM »
Ah, dealing with the stuff of the deceased, when the deceased wanted such and such to happen to the stuff.

I say: dear deceased, you should have taken care of that before you died, then. The burden you place on those left behind to do something complicated with your specialized crap is not cool.

The dealer who offered peanuts for the train pieces has a business operation to maintain, employees to pay, etc. I hope the nephew actually does the work of describing,  listing, packing, and  mailing the train parts because that is work. Will he be compensated?

When my mother’s house had to be cleaned out my brother said he would ebay her stuff. I told him “fine,  it is entirely up to you, do it or don’t, keep ALL of the money you earn from that.” Because my mother had moved a few times in her old age, there wasn’t a hge amount of stuff in her 2 bedroom condo. I had already taken the few things of high value such as 2 sets of family silver, sold them, and split the money with my brother.

My brother’s house is still full of our mom’s crap 15+ years later.


iris lily

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3228 on: October 27, 2023, 09:29:07 AM »
I see people turn themselves into knots to attempt to honor the dead’s wishes for disposale of their stuff. I have a simple directive in my legacy file to the executor of our estate that says dispense with the objects of our estate quickly, don’t obsess about getting the most money, and get on with your life!

I watched a drama play out over the last year where my childhood home, a wonderful
Victorian house, was the object of fantasy of the deceased owner. The recently dead owner who bought it from my parents 50 years ago said she hoped the city would use it for a history museum.

But oops—she made no legal provision for that to happen. The house was part of her estate and went to her children who predictably wanted $$$ for it, and the city declined to buy it. Just as well because it was 50 years of deferred maintenance. The curtains hanging at the windows in 2023 were curtains my mom had made in 1970. That tells ya how well that old house was cared for.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2023, 09:32:22 AM by iris lily »

former player

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3229 on: October 27, 2023, 10:23:42 AM »
Even the best of intentions don't always work out.  I have been the trustee for a disabled family member who died at the end of last year.  It is now time to sort out the distribution of the Trust.  There are no concerns about where the assets go, and both the trustees and the person dealing with the (separate) estate of the deceased are in agreement.  So far so good.  But I think the Trust was not well drafted and that the technical legal result is that it terminated on the death of my relative and the assets fall to be distributed by the executors of the relative's parents, through arrangements made in the early 1980s for parents who died in the early 1990s.  So that is not happening.

Given that everyone is in agreement I think it is mostly easy enough to brush through the legalities of the distribution with documents signed by both Trustees and all the beneficiaries.  Except for the part interest in the family house, because if the house is ever to be sold (probably towards the end of my generation's lifespan) then proper title will need to be shown and I'm not sure we can do that without the original executors from the 1980s.  If the house title isn't already registered and needs to be because of this transfer then the problem might arise a lot sooner.

On the other hand, maybe no-one else will notice?

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3230 on: October 27, 2023, 01:02:18 PM »
Ah, dealing with the stuff of the deceased, when the deceased wanted such and such to happen to the stuff.

I say: dear deceased, you should have taken care of that before you died, then. The burden you place on those left behind to do something complicated with your specialized crap is not cool.

There's nothing quite as toxic as "dead hand" behavior wherein a domineering elder tries to dictate and control an heir's behavior from beyond the grave, because the experience of pressuring, manipulating, and controlling that person during one's own lifetime somehow wasn't enough.

What's even worse is the way entire families play into it. "Yabbit, yabbit, Mom or Dad would have wanted it this other way (regardless of the cost and inconvenience to you, and with no cost or inconvenience to us whatsoever)."

iris lily

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3231 on: October 27, 2023, 01:38:33 PM »
Ah, dealing with the stuff of the deceased, when the deceased wanted such and such to happen to the stuff.

I say: dear deceased, you should have taken care of that before you died, then. The burden you place on those left behind to do something complicated with your specialized crap is not cool.

There's nothing quite as toxic as "dead hand" behavior wherein a domineering elder tries to dictate and control an heir's behavior from beyond the grave, because the experience of pressuring, manipulating, and controlling that person during one's own lifetime somehow wasn't enough.

What's even worse is the way entire families play into it. "Yabbit, yabbit, Mom or Dad would have wanted it this other way (regardless of the cost and inconvenience to you, and with no cost or inconvenience to us whatsoever)."
I know! It is so damn strange and frankly, unfathomable to me, when someone (I have known at LEAST 2 of these someones) renovated the deceased parent’s house in the way “mom would have wanted” only to sell it.
WHY????!!!
 
Believe me, as a potential buyer of mom’s house, I do not want some granny’s taste dictating  the materials of the house I buy. I want to chose materials myself.

Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3232 on: October 27, 2023, 01:54:46 PM »
Ah, dealing with the stuff of the deceased, when the deceased wanted such and such to happen to the stuff.

I say: dear deceased, you should have taken care of that before you died, then. The burden you place on those left behind to do something complicated with your specialized crap is not cool.

There's nothing quite as toxic as "dead hand" behavior wherein a domineering elder tries to dictate and control an heir's behavior from beyond the grave, because the experience of pressuring, manipulating, and controlling that person during one's own lifetime somehow wasn't enough.

What's even worse is the way entire families play into it. "Yabbit, yabbit, Mom or Dad would have wanted it this other way (regardless of the cost and inconvenience to you, and with no cost or inconvenience to us whatsoever)."
I know! It is so damn strange and frankly, unfathomable to me, when someone (I have known at LEAST 2 of these someones) renovated the deceased parent’s house in the way “mom would have wanted” only to sell it.
WHY????!!!
 
Believe me, as a potential buyer of mom’s house, I do not want some granny’s taste dictating  the materials of the house I buy. I want to chose materials myself.
AMEN! My mom redecorated her own house to sell. She had OLT (Old Lady Taste). The buyers ripped it all out. Related: I want to do minor updates NOW, so we can enjoy them and the house will be "recently updated" when we sell. DH is digging his heels in. Ugh.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3233 on: October 27, 2023, 06:32:32 PM »
AMEN! My mom redecorated her own house to sell. She had OLT (Old Lady Taste). The buyers ripped it all out. Related: I want to do minor updates NOW, so we can enjoy them and the house will be "recently updated" when we sell. DH is digging his heels in. Ugh.

Do it now!  I regret so much the times we thought about upgrades, put them off, then did them for selling a house. 

I did finally learn my lesson, did upgrades in my last house for me that later helped sell it.  But they were not fancy upgrades, they were basics, like a light over the kitchen sink*.  If a new owner wanted a different light, at least the wiring was there.  I had already done the work of getting the electrician in.

*Snark comment - why do builders think that having a window in front of the kitchen sink plus one overhead light is enough?  It gets dark early here in winter and that part of the kitchen gets super dark. 

Fresh Bread

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3234 on: October 28, 2023, 12:58:50 AM »
AMEN! My mom redecorated her own house to sell. She had OLT (Old Lady Taste). The buyers ripped it all out. Related: I want to do minor updates NOW, so we can enjoy them and the house will be "recently updated" when we sell. DH is digging his heels in. Ugh.

Do it now!  I regret so much the times we thought about upgrades, put them off, then did them for selling a house. 

I did finally learn my lesson, did upgrades in my last house for me that later helped sell it.  But they were not fancy upgrades, they were basics, like a light over the kitchen sink*.  If a new owner wanted a different light, at least the wiring was there.  I had already done the work of getting the electrician in.

*Snark comment - why do builders think that having a window in front of the kitchen sink plus one overhead light is enough?  It gets dark early here in winter and that part of the kitchen gets super dark.

This is all very timely. Today I found out that a guy that lived in the next street died a year or so ago and left his house to a friend. That's incredibly generous in our VHCOL area but not too strange. The odd bit is that he stipulated that the friend must renovate it! And keep it for some short period of time like one or two years.

How would the renovation be enforced? What would happen if he didn't, I don't know. But that is all moot because he has renovated it, added a second dwelling. He'll make a tidy profit whether he sells or rents out two dwellings.

We can't imagine why that was a stipulation, other than maybe he had plans but got sick. So today we were jokingly suggesting random to-do lists for inclusion in our wills for a bit of fun.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2023, 01:00:23 AM by Fresh Bread »

iris lily

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3235 on: October 28, 2023, 10:50:51 AM »
Ah, dealing with the stuff of the deceased, when the deceased wanted such and such to happen to the stuff.

I say: dear deceased, you should have taken care of that before you died, then. The burden you place on those left behind to do something complicated with your specialized crap is not cool.

There's nothing quite as toxic as "dead hand" behavior wherein a domineering elder tries to dictate and control an heir's behavior from beyond the grave, because the experience of pressuring, manipulating, and controlling that person during one's own lifetime somehow wasn't enough.

What's even worse is the way entire families play into it. "Yabbit, yabbit, Mom or Dad would have wanted it this other way (regardless of the cost and inconvenience to you, and with no cost or inconvenience to us whatsoever)."
I know! It is so damn strange and frankly, unfathomable to me, when someone (I have known at LEAST 2 of these someones) renovated the deceased parent’s house in the way “mom would have wanted” only to sell it.
WHY????!!!
 
Believe me, as a potential buyer of mom’s house, I do not want some granny’s taste dictating  the materials of the house I buy. I want to chose materials myself.
AMEN! My mom redecorated her own house to sell. She had OLT (Old Lady Taste). The buyers ripped it all out. Related: I want to do minor updates NOW, so we can enjoy them and the house will be "recently updated" when we sell. DH is digging his heels in. Ugh.

When I bought our tiny condo in the city three years ago, I was thrilled that it had an old ugly kitchen. Not only was it old it was ugly. And by “old “I mean maybe early 90s? Not “old “meaning decades old and interesting.

That was just the kitchen I wanted, because I felt no compunction in ripping it out and putting in a new one according to my taste and budget. My budget is higher than what a modest condo like this would normally have.

AdrianC

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3236 on: October 28, 2023, 11:32:06 AM »
I wish I’d asked my dad what he wanted to happen to his “stuff”. We’re left guessing a bit with it. Not household crap, his partner keeps all that, thankfully. Other assets.

His will is simple: 50/50 to my brother and I. Easy. Or not. Did he really want 50/50 with everything? Or did he not think some of it through? Don’t know now. Splitting everything 50/50 will cause family strife. He wouldn’t want that.

I’m a bit like the prodigal son (though I didn’t ask for my inheritance when I left!). Brother stayed and worked for the old man while I went off for adventure and to seek my fortune. I can see some of that older brother/younger brother resentment happening if we’re not careful.

Zamboni

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3237 on: October 28, 2023, 03:04:32 PM »
Quote
Splitting everything 50/50 will cause family strife.

With 2 siblings, splitting everything 50/50 should not cause family strife. If one of the two thinks they "deserve more," then they need to get over themselves. Sheesh.

Villanelle

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3238 on: October 28, 2023, 03:52:33 PM »
I don't even care what is done with/to my body.  When I'm dead, I'm done with it.  The only reason I've given DH  (and my sister) any guidance at all is because I don't want them to feel anxious or conflicted if they are left with no direction at all.  I've basically said, "do a cheap cremation, unless you [DH, or sister if DH is gone] or mom and dad [if DH is gone and they are still around] want something else for your own comfort."  IOW, if it helps my loved ones feel better to have a grave or specific site, cool.  Otherwise, go cheap and easy." 

I figure that will help in case they need direction, but also make it clear that I'm ultimately cool with whatever.  (Not that I need to be cool with it, because I will no longer exist.) 

Same with my stuff.  Some of it goes to specific charities, as outlined in the will.  Everything else?  Don't care.  Sell off every item to get maximum profit, but have it take a year or more?  Cool.  Donate all the stuff to charity and get nothing for it?  Sounds good.  Don't care.  And I've made this sentiment clear to everyone so no one is left wondering what Villanelle would want done with that signed first edition Vonnegut, or all of her shoes, or whatever.  It's one thing not to care, and it's another to let the people who will be making the decisions know you really don't care. 

ATtiny85

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3239 on: October 28, 2023, 05:27:49 PM »
Quote
Splitting everything 50/50 will cause family strife.

With 2 siblings, splitting everything 50/50 should not cause family strife. If one of the two thinks they "deserve more," then they need to get over themselves. Sheesh.

Sure, works great for a bottle of scotch, but what does one do with half a watch, or half a stereo?

Villanelle

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3240 on: October 28, 2023, 05:56:33 PM »
Quote
Splitting everything 50/50 will cause family strife.

With 2 siblings, splitting everything 50/50 should not cause family strife. If one of the two thinks they "deserve more," then they need to get over themselves. Sheesh.

Sure, works great for a bottle of scotch, but what does one do with half a watch, or half a stereo?

Either come to a distribution that feels fair (you get the watch and they get the stereo), or everything gets sold. 

Gremlin

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3241 on: October 28, 2023, 07:52:18 PM »
In response to whether 50:50 can cause problems...

Not my family, but one I'm quite familiar with.  Arrangement was to be 50:50 division of assets between two siblings.  In the latter years, Elderly Mother sells her place and buys a home 50:50 as Tenants in Common with her DINK Daughter and her husband so extended family can live together.  Both Daughter and Son were fine with the arrangement.  Elderly Mother contributes roughly half her net worth to buy her share of the home.

Daughter becomes a SAHM when her daughter is born with special needs.  Elderly Mother requires some expensive care later in life and runs down most of her 'other' assets.  That's okay, the plan is that Daughter and husband will buy out the Son's share of 'their' house when the time comes.

House rapidly appreciates and Elderly Mother passes.  Daughter and husband are knocked back on extending their home loan to 'buy' Son's share due to serviceability, as it's now a much more expensive property and they only have one income.  It didn't end up causing family strife (mainly because the Son was very supportive of his sister and came up with a workable alternative), but it could easily have done so. 

All intentions were good.  Everyone thought they were doing the right thing every step of the way through, but 50:50 in this case still caused a lot of stress.  There was never any belief that the Daughter 'deserved more', just an unfortunate series of events that meant there would have been a very significant 'cost' to the Daughter, but not the Son, in directly fulfilling their Mother's wishes.

ATtiny85

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3242 on: October 28, 2023, 07:55:50 PM »
Quote
Splitting everything 50/50 will cause family strife.

With 2 siblings, splitting everything 50/50 should not cause family strife. If one of the two thinks they "deserve more," then they need to get over themselves. Sheesh.

Sure, works great for a bottle of scotch, but what does one do with half a watch, or half a stereo?

Either come to a distribution that feels fair (you get the watch and they get the stereo), or everything gets sold.

I suspect that that word is where things have the potential to go bad. I personally agree with your earlier post. We wrote in our will that 100% goes to a large charity, money, stuff, all of it. If we go early, there will be some ticked family members perhaps, but at least they will all get the same zero. Our executor is an unaffiliated no nonsense friend from grad school. He will knock things out with some paperwork and a check, done.

Zamboni

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3243 on: October 28, 2023, 09:03:22 PM »
So, the splitting of things:

My mom has two sisters. Their grandparents were all farmers. Parents were teachers (thanks, GI Bill). No one rich. But there was moderate drama over the stuff. The coin collection. The china, in particular. How do you divide two sets of china between 3 ladies? So much gnashing of teeth over these dishes. Multiple phone calls. Round and round. Who gets what? What is fair?

In the end, my Mom DNGAF and took a set of 6 from the one grandma who happened to have 18 plates, cups, saucers (cause, you know farmer-sized families back in the day.) That meant both of her sisters had "full" sets of 12, which they were adamant about. Uh huh. One sister had 2 kids and the other had one. Why you need 12 plates, cups, and saucers for that I have no idea.

My mom carefully stored the coveted china away and we never used it.  Finally she gave it to my daughter, and I promptly accidentally broke one of the tea cups (whoops.) But there's this store called "Replacements." Guess what . . . ta da! Replacements had the pattern.

Did I have to look at a gazillion patterns that were almost-but-not-quite right to find it? Yes. Did I find it exactly? Yes. Do I now have another tea cup AND a matching gravy boat, sugar bowl, creamer, and serving platters? Totally dumb, but you know, it wasn't very much money at all. Turns out farmers in Idaho and Missouri did not exactly have Ming dynasty stuff. Lol, probably her sister, who was so adamant about having the set of 12, gave it to her now adult daughter who promptly sold it to Replacements only for me to buy it years later after it sat quietly in their inventory.

But, yeah, easier to split than a watch. Just let your sibling have the watch. Seriously.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2023, 10:01:07 AM by Zamboni »

TomTX

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3244 on: October 29, 2023, 06:39:30 AM »
Seriously: If you care about the people who will deal with your detritus once you die - just go through it, winnow it down - and if you feel comfortable, start distributing items.

Financial side: Put beneficiaries on all of your accounts!

When my parents sold the house and downsized, they distributed a portion of the stuff (coin collection, some furniture) - which was good.  Beneficiaries should all be in place.

Unfortunately, Dad was a pack rat and had been accumulating/hauling around boxes of... stuff... for over 30 years. Literally there were boxes I know were taped up in 1991, some are even older. He promised that in retirement he would sort through the stuff, but he never did. The only organization is the date stuff was packed in a box.

Dad died this spring. I've been primary on helping Mom deal with... everything.

Maybe 5% of stuff in the boxes is really cool/historical/milestone stuff. Maybe 10% is "Eh, okay - I could use it since it's here". Stuff like the blank notebooks. 85% is crap, some of which has PII for other people (name, birth date, SSN, etc) and really should be shredded. Mom is mostly pre-sorting/evaluating, I'm dealing with most of the disposal.

Realistically, I suspect it will be years before we finish going through it all. That's not even considering the boxes and boxes of family slides and photos that he was going to go through and get scanned.

Don't do this to your family. Go through your crap. Here's a method many people have suggested: https://www.thespruce.com/swedish-death-cleaning-4801461

RetiredAt63

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3245 on: October 29, 2023, 06:45:52 AM »
Seriously: If you care about the people who will deal with your detritus once you die - just go through it, winnow it down - and if you feel comfortable, start distributing items.


Just popping in to say I love your use of the word detritus.  If only all the belongings we have to deal with when someone dies would decompose as quietly and easily as forest detritus does.

Omy

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3246 on: October 29, 2023, 07:24:31 AM »
On the subject of beneficiaries, check your accounts periodically. We just went through all of our accounts and it was a mess.

Several accounts had lost our beneficiary info. I'm not sure if it was from software issues or from companies merging and that info not getting transferred properly.

AdrianC

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3247 on: October 29, 2023, 11:38:56 AM »
Quote
Splitting everything 50/50 will cause family strife.

With 2 siblings, splitting everything 50/50 should not cause family strife. If one of the two thinks they "deserve more," then they need to get over themselves. Sheesh.
Hypothetical: dad is given an old airplane and starts refurbishing it. Sibling 1 works with dad on this project for years. Making parts at sibling's business, assembly, doing at least half the work. Sibling 2 occasionally visits but has no interest in the plane. Dad gets sick and can’t do much anymore. Sibling 1 continues to work on the plane and finishes it. Dad soon dies and leaves everything 50/50. There’s property, cash, and investments of $1m, and the plane. Plane is valued at $200k.

Siblings each get $500k (less estate costs) from the property, cash, and investments, that's clear. What about the plane?

Villanelle

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3248 on: October 29, 2023, 11:57:34 AM »
Quote
Splitting everything 50/50 will cause family strife.

With 2 siblings, splitting everything 50/50 should not cause family strife. If one of the two thinks they "deserve more," then they need to get over themselves. Sheesh.
Hypothetical: dad is given an old airplane and starts refurbishing it. Sibling 1 works with dad on this project for years. Making parts at sibling's business, assembly, doing at least half the work. Sibling 2 occasionally visits but has no interest in the plane. Dad gets sick and can’t do much anymore. Sibling 1 continues to work on the plane and finishes it. Dad soon dies and leaves everything 50/50. There’s property, cash, and investments of $1m, and the plane. Plane is valued at $200k.

Siblings each get $500k (less estate costs) from the property, cash, and investments, that's clear. What about the plane?

Dad and sibling 1 should have worked that out ahead of time.  It's not "not spliting 50/50, or unfair" to account for that.  "Because Sib1 has put in time, effort, and expense on the plane, that shall be excluded from the 50/50 split.  To account for their investment of time, Sib1 will get 75% of the proceeds on the plane if sold, and first right of refusal to buy out Sib2 as FMV before it is sold."

To me, that's not diverging from a 50/50 split any more than would be saying, "Sib2 borrowed $50k from the estate so the even split should take that into account before the split is calculated.

Again, dad should account for this stuff ahead of time and discuss if with both siblings, and record his solution in the will with specifics. 

Right now, my sister and I are set to split our parents' estate evenly.  However, my parents carry the mortgage on our house.  (We pay them monthly, with interest, and there is a lien on the home to make it official.)  If the estate is $1m (to include the value of the loan) and I owe them $100k, I don't expect to get $500k.  My sister would get half of the non-mortgage assets ($450k),  plus half of the mortgage asset ($50k), bringing her total to $500k, which is half of the $1m estate for her, as it should be.  I wouldn't walk away with the same $500k, even though it is a 50/50 split, because I have what is in effect a debt against my share. 

Thankfully, my sister is aware of the mortgage, my mom keeps meticulous records (recording in her book every month that I have paid, even though the amount is always the same, as is the date of payment.  She wants it written down that she got each and every payment. I also pay by paper check--her preference--so there are records of what I paid and of the deposits on her end).  And there is the lien. And income tax filings,in which we claim the interest paid and they report the same amount as income.  So it is clear to all how this will play out.  So my parents have done 3 things that will decrease the likelihood of drama--made everyone aware of the existence of the debt, made the debt official, and informed everyone of how the estate will settle.  Of course nothing is totally drama proof and anyone can sue anyone about anything, but this seems pretty rock solid.

And it is still a 50/50 split, even is she gets a larger payment in the end, just as it would be 50/50 if airplane sib 1 walked away with a larger check than sib 2, because they in effect have a credit against the estate, if that's how dad decides to handle it. 




AdrianC

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3249 on: October 30, 2023, 03:50:54 PM »
Quote
Splitting everything 50/50 will cause family strife.

With 2 siblings, splitting everything 50/50 should not cause family strife. If one of the two thinks they "deserve more," then they need to get over themselves. Sheesh.
Hypothetical: dad is given an old airplane and starts refurbishing it. Sibling 1 works with dad on this project for years. Making parts at sibling's business, assembly, doing at least half the work. Sibling 2 occasionally visits but has no interest in the plane. Dad gets sick and can’t do much anymore. Sibling 1 continues to work on the plane and finishes it. Dad soon dies and leaves everything 50/50. There’s property, cash, and investments of $1m, and the plane. Plane is valued at $200k.

Siblings each get $500k (less estate costs) from the property, cash, and investments, that's clear. What about the plane?

Dad and sibling 1 should have worked that out ahead of time.  It's not "not spliting 50/50, or unfair" to account for that.  "Because Sib1 has put in time, effort, and expense on the plane, that shall be excluded from the 50/50 split.  To account for their investment of time, Sib1 will get 75% of the proceeds on the plane if sold, and first right of refusal to buy out Sib2 as FMV before it is sold."

To me, that's not diverging from a 50/50 split any more than would be saying, "Sib2 borrowed $50k from the estate so the even split should take that into account before the split is calculated.

Again, dad should account for this stuff ahead of time and discuss if with both siblings, and record his solution in the will with specifics. 
Dad and sibling 1 didn't work it out ahead of time. It wasn't discussed.

So, the sibs have to work it out. Some drama potential there, I believe.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!