Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.

[Zamboni]

My grandfather did a similar thing: gave an "advance" inheritance to one of four siblings who asked for it. Grandfather wrote it all up formally and spelled it all out in the documents. My grandfather was a no-nonsense kind of guy.

So that advance was supposed to be subtracted from that brother's share. But then, after the funeral, there was drama. Brother didn't want that paperwork honored, wanted the total just divided equally. He manipulated a sister into lobbying others that he "needed" the money more than his siblings. There was a big kerfuffle. In the end, grandfather's documentation was honored by the executor lawyer who was handling the distributions. Overall it wasn't good for sibling harmony, though. And that was with a batch of siblings who did get along well before it all went down, while this is two sibling who already don't seem to like each other?

If your DH wants to give the money away now, which I don't oppose and you don't seem to oppose it either, then my vote is to give both brothers bigger Christmas gifts annually, no strings attached. A fee-based financial advisor can let you know an amount that makes sense tax-wise. DH can use tax issues as the excuse for not just forking it all over now. Younger brother may have to save up and wait a couple more years to buy a house, but personally I think it's not a good time to buy right now given the real estate market indicators. If he can't handle putting it in a 5% CD and saving it up for a couple years and wastes it on hookers and blow (or jetskis or a new car etc), then he shouldn't be buying a house anyway because it shows he he doesn't have the discipline to keep it maintained.

Just my opinion, and your opinion is probably different, but I have witnessed it play out already.

[Captain FIRE]

Nobody but my DH would care about having a ruined relationship with his older son.  He is an asshole. 

Is DH also ok with this guaranteeing the two will never mend fences, but instead that he will be directly creating a further wedge between them? Is he ok with you/OS/YS being tied up in litigation, wasting everyone's time and money after he's gone?

[Siebrie]

My parents are meticulous: sister gets financial help buying babystuff? I get the same amount. I get financial help moving abroad? Sister gets the same amount. Within a week all is equal. Sister and I are estranged (she was estranged with our parents for a while, too. Our parents still gave her money whenever they helped me), but at least we won't have to have this argument, ever. It helps.

[RetiredAt63]

My parents are meticulous: sister gets financial help buying babystuff? I get the same amount. I get financial help moving abroad? Sister gets the same amount. Within a week all is equal. Sister and I are estranged (she was estranged with our parents for a while, too. Our parents still gave her money whenever they helped me), but at least we won't have to have this argument, ever. It helps.

Mine were the same, without the estrangement.   It definitely helps.

[iris lily]

@Catbert - do you have any concerns of you/your husband needing that money for long term care? What would happen in the event your medical or care expenses exceed your shared and/or individual pots of money? Given how expensive & unpredictable LTC can be, I always struggle with the idea of giving away part of an "inheritance" before you die.

This, so much this.

I cannot relate to people who think that big clump of money sitting in mom and dad‘s account when they’re 65 will not be needed when they’re 85 years old, 95 years old, etc.

I struggle myself with how much to give away now, but knowing that I have Alzheimer’s disease rampant in my family, I don’t want to short change my DH in taking care of me in old age.

[tygertygertyger]

My parents are meticulous: sister gets financial help buying babystuff? I get the same amount. I get financial help moving abroad? Sister gets the same amount. Within a week all is equal. Sister and I are estranged (she was estranged with our parents for a while, too. Our parents still gave her money whenever they helped me), but at least we won't have to have this argument, ever. It helps.

Mine were the same, without the estrangement.   It definitely helps.

My partner's parents keep a mental running tab on this same stuff. The only difference is that partner's sibling has kids, and we don't. So the grandkids have a different pot, but the siblings get equalized.

Kind of to a hilarious extent. I get the impression that sibling has needed a bit more help than my partner has, so we get sudden unexpected offers for them to cover things for us - like recently we mentioned that our garage roof leaks, so we'd better start getting some quotes for a new roof. They offered to cover the expense when we figure it out. It's incredibly nice of them, but always surprising to me. My family in general does not offer financial assistance, so it's taken some getting used to.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

My parents are meticulous: sister gets financial help buying babystuff? I get the same amount. I get financial help moving abroad? Sister gets the same amount. Within a week all is equal. Sister and I are estranged (she was estranged with our parents for a while, too. Our parents still gave her money whenever they helped me), but at least we won't have to have this argument, ever. It helps.

I have parents like that, but only in one direction. It makes me sad and nervous whenever they give me a gift that costs more than what I give to them, because I know my brother has done something self-destructive again, and they're rushing to his rescue with money. There have been times I've been sick or injured, and would have appreciated a generous gift, but since my brother was doing well obviously help isn't as available to me. It's kind of messed up. If my brother goofs up, I get "help" I don't need or want. If he's doing well, help is not available to me even if I need and want it.

[Catbert]

I'm glad that I've helped to add new life and drama to this thread.  I'll clarify a few things and then I'm done.

You're all right, older son should be told.  I'll convince my DH to tell him if/when younger son finds a home to buy and is ready to go into escrow.  That may never happen given the state of our real estate market.

Several people have mentioned possible litigation and need for paperwork.  The "his" portion of our money is all in a Fidelity account with TOD or beneficiary designations.  There's no probate or executor involved.  Sure, I guess either older or younger son could sue, however, neither has money for an attorney.  Certainly in California you're not legally obligated to leave any money to your adult children or treat them all either fairly or evenly.  (I believe this is different in some other countries.) Once he makes the gift to younger son the TODs and beneficiaries will be changed to older son. 

Ihamo is correct no gift tax would be required.  I would need to file a form with our taxes showing the gift over 17K (34K as a couple) and it would be counted against the 12 million and change estate tax exemption.

The dividing of "his" portion between his sons is pretty straightforward.  I'll divide each holding (money market, tIRA, Roth IRA) in half and then determine what it will cost us in taxes and subtract from the total. 

[jinga nation]

I've always believed that help today is better than money later, if there's a genuine need (not enabling) or if it's the kind of thing that lasts.

My own preference, with regard to my adult daughter and niece, is to provide help when they're young, when they really need it, and when the assistance results in something that lasts. Investing now for a grandchild's education seems to me like an effective use of money, and I'd rather do that and see them benefit from it (or at least have a shot) instead of either squandering the resources on plastic crap or watching someone I love take on unnecessary debt.

The big three-- education, housing, and vehicles-- are increasing in price even faster than the rate of inflation, and one reason why is that it's become commonplace to pay for these things with borrowed money. Whether I (or my heirs) pay with cash or with borrowed money won't change the price point one iota.

While I'm not a fan of the Economic Outpatient Care situation that @Catbert seems to be in, as it isn't "inheritance" per the definition, I'm in agreement with TGS. Current market economic conditions have to be considered.

[Channel-Z]

My dad died recently, and we're not at the inheritance drama stage yet. But, the day his death notice appeared in the paper, a home health aide who had taken care of him from time to time showed up at the door asking about his paintings (not for sale, not yet anyway). Scavengers move quickly!

[Dancin'Dog]

My dad died recently, and we're not at the inheritance drama stage yet. But, the day his death notice appeared in the paper, a home health aide who had taken care of him from time to time showed up at the door asking about his paintings (not for sale, not yet anyway). Scavengers move quickly!

That's quite rude.


My father passed a year, or so, before Covid-19 struck, fortunately.  He was in a wonderful nursing facility for the last year of his life.  I was the executor & I felt that it would be nice to gift something to his two favorite nurses.  He'd gifted a number of folks before his health had declined so, so I knew he would have been very happy to share a bit more with his nurses.  Of course, I had my brother approve it beforehand.  Individual gifts were against the facilities policy, so I privately contacted each and hand-delivered a card to their homes.


The gifts were generous, but in hindsight, I would have made them larger.  Theirs is such an honorable and difficult profession.

[ATtiny85]

My dad died recently, and we're not at the inheritance drama stage yet. But, the day his death notice appeared in the paper, a home health aide who had taken care of him from time to time showed up at the door asking about his paintings (not for sale, not yet anyway). Scavengers move quickly!

Sorry for your loss.

That’s a pretty gutsy move. I’d like to think their heart was in the right place somehow, but sheesh.

[charis]

My dad died recently, and we're not at the inheritance drama stage yet. But, the day his death notice appeared in the paper, a home health aide who had taken care of him from time to time showed up at the door asking about his paintings (not for sale, not yet anyway). Scavengers move quickly!

Sorry for your loss.

That’s a pretty gutsy move. I’d like to think their heart was in the right place somehow, but sheesh.

I think I am reading this wrong?  I first thought that he was a painter and the home health aide wanted to buy one of his paintings after his death, which sounds sweet. 

[ATtiny85]

My dad died recently, and we're not at the inheritance drama stage yet. But, the day his death notice appeared in the paper, a home health aide who had taken care of him from time to time showed up at the door asking about his paintings (not for sale, not yet anyway). Scavengers move quickly!

Sorry for your loss.

That’s a pretty gutsy move. I’d like to think their heart was in the right place somehow, but sheesh.

I think I am reading this wrong?  I first thought that he was a painter and the home health aide wanted to buy one of his paintings after his death, which sounds sweet.

I doubt Channel-Z would have posted it if it was sweet. I view all posts on this thread with my super pessimistic lens. I’ll be glad if you are correct in your first thought, as Green Eggs said, the work they do is otherworldly.

[Siebrie]

My Dad passed a fortnight ago. Estranged Sister and I spent a week at Mum's to sort the service and cremation. Funnily enough, Sis and I work together really well, but the conversations other than Dad's passing were only an inch deep: 'what shall we have for dinner tonight?', 'will you take the trash out?'

Sister was told I was executor of our parents' wills about 6 months ago, and was really upset, even offering to pay for 'rectifying' their wills. Parents refused her 'offer'. A few days after Dad's passing, Mum called the Notary who made the wills - while Sis and I could listen in - to ask what needed to be done, and he said 'nothing' :). Battle postponed until Mum passes :D

Sis is and always has been jealous of me. There is no reason, from the outside she has a better life than me: husband makes a lot of money, 3 kids are doing well, she had 2 small businesses doing what she loved, nice vacations, nice house, on top of housework, time for voluntary work (school parents' association), husband that spoils her (surprise trips to Paris and Dubai, for instance :)). Whatever she puts her mind and hands to, she can do.

The jealousy I noticed the week of the funeral service: she hid my new pair of trousers so I couldn't wear them to the funeral service where I was reading the In Memoriam. I had checked my suitcase 3 times before the service, and then found them when I packed to leave the next day; and in the family group picture we took after the funeral dinner, she photoshopped some extra weight on me :D How petty can you get? (BTW: she's 50, I'm 51)

[AlanStache]

The jealousy I noticed the week of the funeral service: she hid my new pair of trousers so I couldn't wear them to the funeral service where I was reading the In Memoriam. I had checked my suitcase 3 times before the service, and then found them when I packed to leave the next day; and in the family group picture we took after the funeral dinner, she photoshopped some extra weight on me :D How petty can you get? (BTW: she's 50, I'm 51)

Wtf?  Is she one of those who think they can just joke around about anything anytime, and "you need to lighten up-bro"? 

[Siebrie]

No, the level is more that of a 3-year old, who knows she's not allowed to hit or bite, so destroys a drawing you made or your favourite book.

[Dancin'Dog]

No, the level is more that of a 3-year old, who knows she's not allowed to hit or bite, so destroys a drawing you made or your favourite book.

It's obvious why your parents chose you over her.  Parents know their children. 

[Dicey]

My Dad passed a fortnight ago. Estranged Sister and I spent a week at Mum's to sort the service and cremation. Funnily enough, Sis and I work together really well, but the conversations other than Dad's passing were only an inch deep: 'what shall we have for dinner tonight?', 'will you take the trash out?'

Sister was told I was executor of our parents' wills about 6 months ago, and was really upset, even offering to pay for 'rectifying' their wills. Parents refused her 'offer'. A few days after Dad's passing, Mum called the Notary who made the wills - while Sis and I could listen in - to ask what needed to be done, and he said 'nothing' :). Battle postponed until Mum passes :D

Sis is and always has been jealous of me. There is no reason, from the outside she has a better life than me: husband makes a lot of money, 3 kids are doing well, she had 2 small businesses doing what she loved, nice vacations, nice house, on top of housework, time for voluntary work (school parents' association), husband that spoils her (surprise trips to Paris and Dubai, for instance :)). Whatever she puts her mind and hands to, she can do.

The jealousy I noticed the week of the funeral service: she hid my new pair of trousers so I couldn't wear them to the funeral service where I was reading the In Memoriam. I had checked my suitcase 3 times before the service, and then found them when I packed to leave the next day; and in the family group picture we took after the funeral dinner, she photoshopped some extra weight on me :D How petty can you get? (BTW: she's 50, I'm 51)

You know her better, but I would confront that shit head-on. Writing a letter might be cathartic. Sorry for your loss.

[mm1970]

The jealousy I noticed the week of the funeral service: she hid my new pair of trousers so I couldn't wear them to the funeral service where I was reading the In Memoriam. I had checked my suitcase 3 times before the service, and then found them when I packed to leave the next day; and in the family group picture we took after the funeral dinner, she photoshopped some extra weight on me :D How petty can you get? (BTW: she's 50, I'm 51)

Wtf?  Is she one of those who think they can just joke around about anything anytime, and "you need to lighten up-bro"?

Seriously, this is demented.  Photoshopping on weight and hiding your pants??

[MaybeBabyMustache]

The jealousy I noticed the week of the funeral service: she hid my new pair of trousers so I couldn't wear them to the funeral service where I was reading the In Memoriam. I had checked my suitcase 3 times before the service, and then found them when I packed to leave the next day; and in the family group picture we took after the funeral dinner, she photoshopped some extra weight on me :D How petty can you get? (BTW: she's 50, I'm 51)

Wtf?  Is she one of those who think they can just joke around about anything anytime, and "you need to lighten up-bro"?

Seriously, this is demented. Photoshopping on weight and hiding your pants??

Yeah, this is well outside the bounds of normal behavior. If you told me she was 13, I'd think she still had some growing up to do, but understand the pants hiding as overall maturity. At 50, it's just beyond.

[Siebrie]

You're all quite right, and we have suggested therapy several times, even agreeing when she 'sarcastically' invited my parents and/or me for family therapy, but she never followed up.

Last year, she spent 6 months training to become a 112 (911/999) police telephone responder, and they failed her at the end.

She was adopted into our family at age 3; our Mum is a social worker with a lot of experience and she managed to talk Sis through her issues and unjumble everything in her head until Sis was about 27. Now she has a husband who 'saved' her from her horrible family and life; he's behind her 100% (which is good for her, but not so much for the family dynamic).

When I was heavily pregnant with dd2, my parents were staying with us. Her eldest had a birthday party and my parents planned on going, and taking my eldest (2 years old at the time). Sis forbade them to bring my eldest, because the attention would no longer be solely on her kids (that's a quote). Parents did attend the party, because they did not want to punish the grandchildren for their mother's behaviour, but I broke with Sis, and soon after my parents and Sis broke, too.

After a few years, and at Mum's insistence, my parents and Sis have some form of regular contact. Mum insisted because Sis has no anchors, no people who can (bother to) stand up to her if she deviates from generally accepted behaviour.

[Freedomin5]

Sounds like she still has issues to unjumble.

[saguaro]

Sounds like she still has issues to unjumble.

This sounds like my own sister to be honest.   She's always had issues, no compunction about behaving badly, we hoped she would grow up but never did.

After a few years, and at Mum's insistence, my parents and Sis have some form of regular contact. Mum insisted because Sis has no anchors, no people who can (bother to) stand up to her if she deviates from generally accepted behaviour.

Same with our sister but even that had its limits. My parents tried to get her to curtail her bad behavior, but in the end they just threw up their hands and told the rest of us to deal with it because "family".   We did but now that our parents are gone, my youngest sibling finally decided to break ties completely for her own well being.  I maintain some contact but have limited it in recent months for similar reasons.   BIL (sister's husband) left the ring a long time ago, there's no one to speak up and check her behaviour not that it really worked that well anyway. 

[SwordGuy]

Sounds like she still has issues to unjumble.

This sounds like my own sister to be honest.   She's always had issues, no compunction about behaving badly, we hoped she would grow up but never did.

After a few years, and at Mum's insistence, my parents and Sis have some form of regular contact. Mum insisted because Sis has no anchors, no people who can (bother to) stand up to her if she deviates from generally accepted behaviour.

Same with our sister but even that had its limits. My parents tried to get her to curtail her bad behavior, but in the end they just threw up their hands and told the rest of us to deal with it because "family".   We did but now that our parents are gone, my youngest sibling finally decided to break ties completely for her own well being.  I maintain some contact but have limited it in recent months for similar reasons.   BIL (sister's husband) left the ring a long time ago, there's no one to speak up and check her behaviour not that it really worked that well anyway.

I understand!  My wife's family (except for her younger sister) are all hoping that when their mom dies, the funeral will happen and the first the youngest sister knows about it is when she gets a big check from the executor, with a letter that says cash this unchallenged or get nothing.  None of them want to deal with her in any capacity for any time for any reason. 

And yes, having her miss the funeral is a reasonable wish given her behavior at her dad's funeral.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Sounds like she still has issues to unjumble.

This sounds like my own sister to be honest.   She's always had issues, no compunction about behaving badly, we hoped she would grow up but never did.

After a few years, and at Mum's insistence, my parents and Sis have some form of regular contact. Mum insisted because Sis has no anchors, no people who can (bother to) stand up to her if she deviates from generally accepted behaviour.

Same with our sister but even that had its limits. My parents tried to get her to curtail her bad behavior, but in the end they just threw up their hands and told the rest of us to deal with it because "family".   We did but now that our parents are gone, my youngest sibling finally decided to break ties completely for her own well being.  I maintain some contact but have limited it in recent months for similar reasons.   BIL (sister's husband) left the ring a long time ago, there's no one to speak up and check her behaviour not that it really worked that well anyway.

Classic controlling parent move: they couldn't control the person who was behaving badly, so they shifted their effort to control the victims of the bad behavior, to manipulate them into absorbing more of it.

[saguaro]

Sounds like she still has issues to unjumble.

This sounds like my own sister to be honest.   She's always had issues, no compunction about behaving badly, we hoped she would grow up but never did.

After a few years, and at Mum's insistence, my parents and Sis have some form of regular contact. Mum insisted because Sis has no anchors, no people who can (bother to) stand up to her if she deviates from generally accepted behaviour.

Same with our sister but even that had its limits. My parents tried to get her to curtail her bad behavior, but in the end they just threw up their hands and told the rest of us to deal with it because "family".   We did but now that our parents are gone, my youngest sibling finally decided to break ties completely for her own well being.  I maintain some contact but have limited it in recent months for similar reasons.   BIL (sister's husband) left the ring a long time ago, there's no one to speak up and check her behaviour not that it really worked that well anyway.

Classic controlling parent move: they couldn't control the person who was behaving badly, so they shifted their effort to control the victims of the bad behavior, to manipulate them into absorbing more of it.

Exactly this.  And it never stopped, parents continued to make excuses and allow her to run roughshod until the day they died.   My youngest sister bore the brunt of it because she was always the easier target even after moving 1200 miles away.    This is the main reason for the estrangement, though there are other issues at play as well.

When asked about how my late mother, who ironically worried about family rifts, would feel about this state of affairs, my answer was "she would not like it but she shouldn't be surprised".   

[eostache]

We are onlookers to this impending inheritance situation, so not our circus. We may be affected as it involves the rental we have been living in for a dozen years.

We have been renting from a private LL man (in his 90s) for a dozen years. Our rental is “rustic” and we have been paying way under market rent. Our LL has never raised the rent on us. We are in a 5-plex in town. Our LL is elderly and a widower and over the years we have become friendly with him and helped him with many things at this rental, and at his nearby house, and with personal things sometimes. We would sometimes share meals or go out to lunch or dinner together. Of course we always pay our rent on time and keep an eye out for things happening at this rental property.

He has an older daughter (OD) (single, almost 70) who we get along with. She has had somewhat unstable living situations but for the past few years has been a live-in caretaker for a fairly wealthy widow. OD has adult children and maybe even grandchildren but I don’t know if she has much of a relationship with any of them. I don’t think LL has any relationship with these grandchildren, maybe barely knows them.

He has a younger daughter (YD), married, no kids, late 50s. OD is a half sister. YD’s mother may have been LL’s wife who died a couple decades ago. I don’t know the details of the family relationships. YD does not like OD, although OD would like to be able to get along. So OD keeps her distance but calls or visits LL father from time to time when she can.

We get along with YD ok, but observe that she is entitled, narcissist and manipulative.
YD lives in another state, doesn’t work, and seems financially stable. Her husband is nice enough and we get along with him too. I think YD has a house she has long owned in a third state that she rents out, so she has some assets there. Her and her husband have health issues that limit what they can do.

.......

Update on this situation.
LL died in early May. Very sad, we miss him.
YD did arrange a memorial service and it was nice. OD showed up to the service and everyone behaved themselves.
YD is still in area, staying in LL's house, but I'm sure she wants to go back to her home in CA sometime.
We are still renting and it's been ok.
I think all properties are in a trust.
I had thought YD was going to inherit everything as she had been talking about it like that
She is chatty so I let her talk when I see her. She mentioned that OD has part of the inheritance and YD was going to try to do something about that, buying OD out or something. I don't know much about these matters, but maybe it can take a long time to straighten these things out? Especially if the people can't or won't talk to each other.

[Zamboni]

One of the daughters is probably the executor. It sounds like LL just left everything to the daughters in equal shares. This doesn't surprise me, as I think it's likely pretty rare for parents to write a child out of their will. The child who perceives herself as "favorite" or most responsible sometimes is surprised by this, I suppose, and it sounds like this was the case for YD.

One friend of mine rented on the California coast for years at way-below market rates because the children who inherited the home couldn't agree on what to do with it in terms of a sale, so they were each getting a portion of the rent and the status quo prevailed at least until he decided to move years later for other reasons.

In other situations at least one of the heirs wants a big hunk of cash and pushes for sale of the property. This happened in the case of a revenue-producing farm that my Mom inherited along with her two siblings. My guess is that they all would have been much better off continuing to collect the revenue for years, but one sister wanted to upgrade her home and pushed hard for the sale.

So you won't know until you know, but it sounds like YD will keep you in the loop. Good luck with it.

[Siebrie]

My Dad passed a fortnight ago. Estranged Sister and I spent a week at Mum's to sort the service and cremation. Funnily enough, Sis and I work together really well, but the conversations other than Dad's passing were only an inch deep: 'what shall we have for dinner tonight?', 'will you take the trash out?'

Sister was told I was executor of our parents' wills about 6 months ago, and was really upset, even offering to pay for 'rectifying' their wills. Parents refused her 'offer'. A few days after Dad's passing, Mum called the Notary who made the wills - while Sis and I could listen in - to ask what needed to be done, and he said 'nothing' :). Battle postponed until Mum passes :D

Sis is and always has been jealous of me. There is no reason, from the outside she has a better life than me: husband makes a lot of money, 3 kids are doing well, she had 2 small businesses doing what she loved, nice vacations, nice house, on top of housework, time for voluntary work (school parents' association), husband that spoils her (surprise trips to Paris and Dubai, for instance :)). Whatever she puts her mind and hands to, she can do.

The jealousy I noticed the week of the funeral service: she hid my new pair of trousers so I couldn't wear them to the funeral service where I was reading the In Memoriam. I had checked my suitcase 3 times before the service, and then found them when I packed to leave the next day; and in the family group picture we took after the funeral dinner, she photoshopped some extra weight on me :D How petty can you get? (BTW: she's 50, I'm 51)

It continues:
- the week before the funeral service I had put Dad's facebook to 'don't let others know when you are online', to give Mum the time to look at his facebook undisturbed (and not freak friends and family out) and only then decide what to do with it. This weekend, I have found that all settings were changed to 'everyone gets to see everything' and 'stories only to be sent to [sister]'. Together with Mum I have changed all settings I could find to the most restrictive options. I don't have facebook, so I hope I caught all.
- sister and her middle daughter were with Mum on Tuesday to pick up Dad's ashes from the crematorium. Afterwards, she helped Mum sort through a small pile of insurance papers, from an insurance firm sister used to work for. Mum wasn't confident all was correct, so on Saturday we had another look, and I discovered that it actually related to 3 different insurances, and that there was a mistake in 1 of the certificates. The papers were quite jumbled up, 1 policy of about 56 pages was in 3 parts inbetween the letters, for instance. Mum will not let sister help anymore.
- the Sunday after the funeral I found a SIM card on the floor of the guest bedroom were sister was staying. I kept it safely. A week later Mum tells me that she took Dad's mobile phone to the phoneshop to change the contract to her name, and that they couldn't find the SIM card in the phone. My guess is that sister has cloned or copied information from the card (she's savvy, and her husband is high up in IT). I've told Mum that I found a/the card. I am now searching the web to see how I can find out if it's actually cloned. I can't help if it was just copied (that's static information), but if cloned I can render it useless, perhaps, by asking the phone company for a new SIM-card with the same phone number.

[JAYSLOL]

My Dad passed a fortnight ago. Estranged Sister and I spent a week at Mum's to sort the service and cremation. Funnily enough, Sis and I work together really well, but the conversations other than Dad's passing were only an inch deep: 'what shall we have for dinner tonight?', 'will you take the trash out?'

Sister was told I was executor of our parents' wills about 6 months ago, and was really upset, even offering to pay for 'rectifying' their wills. Parents refused her 'offer'. A few days after Dad's passing, Mum called the Notary who made the wills - while Sis and I could listen in - to ask what needed to be done, and he said 'nothing' :). Battle postponed until Mum passes :D

Sis is and always has been jealous of me. There is no reason, from the outside she has a better life than me: husband makes a lot of money, 3 kids are doing well, she had 2 small businesses doing what she loved, nice vacations, nice house, on top of housework, time for voluntary work (school parents' association), husband that spoils her (surprise trips to Paris and Dubai, for instance :)). Whatever she puts her mind and hands to, she can do.

The jealousy I noticed the week of the funeral service: she hid my new pair of trousers so I couldn't wear them to the funeral service where I was reading the In Memoriam. I had checked my suitcase 3 times before the service, and then found them when I packed to leave the next day; and in the family group picture we took after the funeral dinner, she photoshopped some extra weight on me :D How petty can you get? (BTW: she's 50, I'm 51)

It continues:
- the week before the funeral service I had put Dad's facebook to 'don't let others know when you are online', to give Mum the time to look at his facebook undisturbed (and not freak friends and family out) and only then decide what to do with it. This weekend, I have found that all settings were changed to 'everyone gets to see everything' and 'stories only to be sent to [sister]'. Together with Mum I have changed all settings I could find to the most restrictive options. I don't have facebook, so I hope I caught all.
- sister and her middle daughter were with Mum on Tuesday to pick up Dad's ashes from the crematorium. Afterwards, she helped Mum sort through a small pile of insurance papers, from an insurance firm sister used to work for. Mum wasn't confident all was correct, so on Saturday we had another look, and I discovered that it actually related to 3 different insurances, and that there was a mistake in 1 of the certificates. The papers were quite jumbled up, 1 policy of about 56 pages was in 3 parts inbetween the letters, for instance. Mum will not let sister help anymore.
- the Sunday after the funeral I found a SIM card on the floor of the guest bedroom were sister was staying. I kept it safely. A week later Mum tells me that she took Dad's mobile phone to the phoneshop to change the contract to her name, and that they couldn't find the SIM card in the phone. My guess is that sister has cloned or copied information from the card (she's savvy, and her husband is high up in IT). I've told Mum that I found a/the card. I am now searching the web to see how I can find out if it's actually cloned. I can't help if it was just copied (that's static information), but if cloned I can render it useless, perhaps, by asking the phone company for a new SIM-card with the same phone number.

Wow, that’s some seriously strange behaviour.  Do you ever call her out directly for her antics?  It also sounds like you don’t have concrete proof that she is doing most of these though, so why not plant something intentionally to get her to slip up?  I’m sure we can all come up with some suggestions on items you could set up to be tempting if she decided to go digging through your luggage again. 

[Siebrie]

I'm no contact and would like to keep it that way; Mum keeps in touch with her, but also keeps info limited. I've told Mum to just hide the tablet when sister is expected (she never comes unannounced). Valuables are already in a safe place. Sister suffers from 'kleptomania' or 'if you don't let me have it when I ask for it, I'll take it'. There's a long history of her giving her friends my nice items, she has been called out on it, but never stopped. About 12 years ago I've stopped giving her the opportunity.

[Turtle]

My ex passed away suddenly and unexpectedly last week.  There's no will.  There's already been some drama and likely to be more.  Services and such went OK, however, and the main source of drama behaved themselves for that.

Drama source is a control freak who is likely to use the possession of sentimental items as leverage to continue control with my kids; but a will wouldn't likely have made much difference for that case.  There's not much of monetary value to fight over, however, except for one classic car in middling condition but great sentimental value. 

It also seems that employer beneficiaries were filled out based on what USPS Informed Delivery says is coming to my house this afternoon.  My brother happens to work at the same company, so I had gotten the relevant phone numbers to give to my kids this week once services were over.  It's looking like that won't be necessary, though.

[Miss Piggy]

Wow, that’s some seriously strange behaviour.  Do you ever call her out directly for her antics?  It also sounds like you don’t have concrete proof that she is doing most of these though, so why not plant something intentionally to get her to slip up?  I’m sure we can all come up with some suggestions on items you could set up to be tempting if she decided to go digging through your luggage again.

This has "glitter bomb" written all over it. Unfortunately, it would create a huge mess, but damn, the joy of catching her in the act...

[Zamboni]

Apparently you can buy a version of a glitter bomb on Etsy. They don't have the cameras, which is too bad, but it would still be funny. Mark Rober should definitely go into manufacturing and sell the high end, camera loaded glitter bombs. He'd probably make a fortune.

My ex passed away suddenly and unexpectedly last week.  There's no will.  There's already been some drama and likely to be more.  Services and such went OK, however, and the main source of drama behaved themselves for that.

Drama source is a control freak who is likely to use the possession of sentimental items as leverage to continue control with my kids; but a will wouldn't likely have made much difference for that case.  There's not much of monetary value to fight over, however, except for one classic car in middling condition but great sentimental value. 

It also seems that employer beneficiaries were filled out based on what USPS Informed Delivery says is coming to my house this afternoon.  My brother happens to work at the same company, so I had gotten the relevant phone numbers to give to my kids this week once services were over.  It's looking like that won't be necessary, though.

I'm sorry for your loss, and for your children's grief, and that you are having to worry about it. It does seem like the insurance companies and places like Vanguard have plenty of mechanisms in place to safeguard inheritances and make sure they get to the intended heir without too much interference.

Nothing really can be done about the sentimental items that have no other value, though. What type of age are your children? Little, K-12, or 18+? This is age dependent, but if there is something specific one of your children wants, then my advice is that at some point they ask control freak for it. Ideally they should ask for all things they can think of at once. Something like "Hi, I know there is a picture of my Dad and me with a big fish we caught that he had on his desk. May I have it now, please? Also, he and I use to do XXX together a lot, my I please have YYY item associated with that now, please?"

Control freak might surprise you and just say "Of course! here you go!" If control freak says "no" or "maybe later" or "only if you do XYZ" or "what picture? No you can't come look for anything" or "no, he wanted me to have that" then I would cut control freak out of my life, go no contact, and he or she better hope they never need my help. Easier said than done if it is a grandparent and aunt or uncle, though. Pretty easy if it is a step parent who they aren't close to. If they are younger, even HS age, hopefully there is a way you can tactfully let control freak know that you expect any photos or other highly sentimental items to be preserved for his children and given to them all at once in the fairly near future. No trickle out over time BS. Good luck with it all, and again I'm sorry.

[Turtle]

Apparently you can buy a version of a glitter bomb on Etsy. They don't have the cameras, which is too bad, but it would still be funny. Mark Rober should definitely go into manufacturing and sell the high end, camera loaded glitter bombs. He'd probably make a fortune.

My ex passed away suddenly and unexpectedly last week.  There's no will.  There's already been some drama and likely to be more.  Services and such went OK, however, and the main source of drama behaved themselves for that.

Drama source is a control freak who is likely to use the possession of sentimental items as leverage to continue control with my kids; but a will wouldn't likely have made much difference for that case.  There's not much of monetary value to fight over, however, except for one classic car in middling condition but great sentimental value. 

It also seems that employer beneficiaries were filled out based on what USPS Informed Delivery says is coming to my house this afternoon.  My brother happens to work at the same company, so I had gotten the relevant phone numbers to give to my kids this week once services were over.  It's looking like that won't be necessary, though.

I'm sorry for your loss, and for your children's grief, and that you are having to worry about it. It does seem like the insurance companies and places like Vanguard have plenty of mechanisms in place to safeguard inheritances and make sure they get to the intended heir without too much interference.

Nothing really can be done about the sentimental items that have no other value, though. What type of age are your children? Little, K-12, or 18+? This is age dependent, but if there is something specific one of your children wants, then my advice is that at some point they ask control freak for it. Ideally they should ask for all things they can think of at once. Something like "Hi, I know there is a picture of my Dad and me with a big fish we caught that he had on his desk. May I have it now, please? Also, he and I use to do XXX together a lot, my I please have YYY item associated with that now, please?"

Control freak might surprise you and just say "Of course! here you go!" If control freak says "no" or "maybe later" or "only if you do XYZ" or "what picture? No you can't come look for anything" or "no, he wanted me to have that" then I would cut control freak out of my life, go no contact, and he or she better hope they never need my help. Easier said than done if it is a grandparent and aunt or uncle, though. Pretty easy if it is a step parent who they aren't close to. If they are younger, even HS age, hopefully there is a way you can tactfully let control freak know that you expect any photos or other highly sentimental items to be preserved for his children and given to them all at once in the fairly near future. No trickle out over time BS. Good luck with it all, and again I'm sorry.

Thank you.  They're in their early 20's, so it's all really up to them.  Doesn't stop me worrying, but it does keep me out of the middle.

And remind me to double check all my beneficiary designations to make sure my late spouse is no longer primary.

[Sibley]

My friend's mother died about 2 weeks ago. Her parents were still married, her dad is still alive, there's no other kids, and it's a very small family overall so all that's likely to happen is the giant house filled with too much stuff is likely to remain the giant house filled with too much stuff for the foreseeable future. Her dad could surprise me, but so far he's frozen. Not surprising, they were married 40 years.

The biggest lesson from the whole affair: you need to have the hard conversations. The family was in the position of doctors sending hospice to the family and the family having no idea what she wanted. Coma, ventilator, 2 months in hospital and acute care and the entire time, death was when, not if. I knew with in a few days of the initial heart attack that her mom wouldn't survive. The heart damage was too severe, the blockages too severe, there was nothing they could do about the blockages because of where they were. Two months of stress and uncertainty, all because the hard conversations didn't happen. Then, there was nothing about funeral wishes either. I sat at the wake as my friend cried because she worried her mom wouldn't have wanted things done as they were. I sat at the house after the funeral as her dad was upset because he worried his wife wouldn't have liked the service.

Don't do that to your loved ones. Have the hard conversations. Even though they're hard.

[Siebrie]

The hard conversations become less hard if they come with a checklist.
My parents (and I) have a burial insurance (very common in The Netherlands) with a non-profit. This non-profit is rather active in helping people prepare for the inevitable: they have open days of their crematoria and burial grounds, they have volunteers who come speak at, say, church conversation groups, they have checklists for last wishes, the volunteers come to your home and help work through the checklist.
My Dad had his own wishes, service, In Memoriam, and card all ready. And Mum has her wishes ready, and has started on her own In Memoriam and service. It has given me great peace of mind, knowing that what happened and how it happened was in agreement with Dad's wishes.

[MissNancyPryor]

Slight shift of gears here. 

My X is estranged from our adult children. Within the last 5 years he updated his will to name our eldest as executor with everything going 50/50 to the 2 daughters upon his death.  His relationship with both daughters broke down severely a couple years later and they are no contact.  It is unclear if he changed the will and may be hoping to mend things with his kids so has left it.

After the last straw with our girls he married the affair partner in 2021 (a foreign born co-worker, the same age as our eldest daughter).  Odds are good they will not stay together for all the usual reasons but mostly that she is likely using him for US citizenship which obviously, once secured, makes him highly jettison-able.  Old farts don't often stay married to young foreign chicks especially when their True Love Story started out as a family-destroying affair and they have zero in common culturally or generationally.  This is another reason we doubt he changed the will, he must realize that the current marriage is likely to end at some point and he would not like his wealth going to the twatwaffle flatterfuck.             

If the X croaks while still married she will get to stay in the home as half owner since she is on the deed.  If he didn't change his will I would think that all still stands, but perhaps the widow could sue for some chunk of it as assets they accumulated after marriage (?).  She has no children so there are no step kids who might have a case of the grabbies.  Since she is European I doubt she is familiar with the nuances of state inheritance law but she is an accountant so is not necessarily stupid about financial things and might be highly motivated to research all of this. 
 
A question my girls and I were wondering is how they would they even get notified of the death at all since they are not in contact with their dad?  What is to keep the widow from simply grabbing all she can without consequences?  I know that anything with the kids listed as beneficiaries would go to them directly from the institutions where they are held once a death certificate is presented, but WHO does the presenting if the widow pulls some shenanigans?  How would my girls ever hold the widow accountable for anything?

Who steps in front of the widow to start the cycle of notifications if she just sits there?  It occurred to us that the Asshat could be dead already for all we know.

Anybody got stories or advice?   

[iluvzbeach]

@MissNancyPryor - it’s entirely possible that XDH & NFW (new foreign wife) have updated all assets to either be joint with rights of survivorship, or with her as the beneficiary. The will may say one thing but if there’s no “estate” to speak of your girls might not get anything.

P.S. Nice to see you posting around here. Haven’t seen your name on the forums in a while.

[MissNancyPryor]

Thanks-  I have been absent, true.  No real reason I guess, just loving my early retirement and occasionally reading the boards and checking in with the smartest people on all this stuff, but not having much to add.  Must be a sign of contentment :)   

The X and I had a lot of money when we divorced and so there was definitely a pile of pre-marriage assets that were his first and he would have had to deliberately add her or name her as the benny.  Possible.  But if not, what then?  I know about the house for sure as public record but that is it. 

If he did change his will it is just as likely that their fantasy runs its course and he changes it back to his kids once she has the next affair with an age-appropriate dude (the karma bus owes him a stop), so the question of how notifications are made and who is responsible for setting the wheels in motion still lingers. 

As my eldest daughter said, it is not if, it is when.  One day he will die and we wonder how the spark of all the post-death processing gets lit. 

[Dancin'Dog]

Slight shift of gears here. 

My X is estranged from our adult children. Within the last 5 years he updated his will to name our eldest as executor with everything going 50/50 to the 2 daughters upon his death.  His relationship with both daughters broke down severely a couple years later and they are no contact.  It is unclear if he changed the will and may be hoping to mend things with his kids so has left it.

After the last straw with our girls he married the affair partner in 2021 (a foreign born co-worker, the same age as our eldest daughter).  Odds are good they will not stay together for all the usual reasons but mostly that she is likely using him for US citizenship which obviously, once secured, makes him highly jettison-able.  Old farts don't often stay married to young foreign chicks especially when their True Love Story started out as a family-destroying affair and they have zero in common culturally or generationally.  This is another reason we doubt he changed the will, he must realize that the current marriage is likely to end at some point and he would not like his wealth going to the twatwaffle flatterfuck.             

If the X croaks while still married she will get to stay in the home as half owner since she is on the deed.  If he didn't change his will I would think that all still stands, but perhaps the widow could sue for some chunk of it as assets they accumulated after marriage (?).  She has no children so there are no step kids who might have a case of the grabbies.  Since she is European I doubt she is familiar with the nuances of state inheritance law but she is an accountant so is not necessarily stupid about financial things and might be highly motivated to research all of this. 
 
A question my girls and I were wondering is how they would they even get notified of the death at all since they are not in contact with their dad?  What is to keep the widow from simply grabbing all she can without consequences?  I know that anything with the kids listed as beneficiaries would go to them directly from the institutions where they are held once a death certificate is presented, but WHO does the presenting if the widow pulls some shenanigans?  How would my girls ever hold the widow accountable for anything?

Who steps in front of the widow to start the cycle of notifications if she just sits there?  It occurred to us that the Asshat could be dead already for all we know.

Anybody got stories or advice?

If there's enough money to entice her, she will likely stick around until she can get it.  He would, at some point, likely give her his financial & medical PoA's.  After assuming control of the finances she will transfer it into her account and close his accounts.  The accounts which might have contacted his heirs will have been closed prior to his death, so there will be nothing to report.


If he doesn't trust her he may have somehow protected his assets.  I'm not sure what will prevent her from them accessing them with a PoA.


An unrestricted financial PoA allows a person to handle any type of financial transaction that the owner could do themselves.  That includes buying and selling real estate and securities. 


PoA's are often given to one's heirs, which is obviously a "conflict of interest".  But, who else are you going to trust? 

[MissNancyPryor]

My advice to my girls was to expect nothing.  They are not greedy about the money but do wish they could retrieve a couple of physical things they recall from their grandmother, and if there was any money they would probably use it for a house down payment rather than hookers and blow.  He is tainted severely in their minds and his only contribution to their lives now would be much like a rotted compost can help a garden grow.  The anxiety about how they would be notified is real and it would be nice to be assured how it works -- google was no help sussing out who is responsible for it and puts so much on the "duty" of this or that person to act as named in the will.  I don't trust this chick to respond to any sense of duty.   

The X lives many states away so it is not a matter of stopping by or one day reading a local obit.  The X is 55, the NewForeignWife NFW is 31.  There may not be an obit since he has no family there 2000 miles from everyone who ever mattered to us.

He will not be ailing anytime soon to need a PoA and it seems like the NFW will be gone to younger pastures before he would become infirm.  It doesn't feel like that is the way it would go, and I think she will be watching her youth and fertility slip away (he is snipped) and won't want to hang around while he rusts out.

[Dicey]

My advice to my girls was to expect nothing.  They are not greedy about the money but do wish they could retrieve a couple of physical things they recall from their grandmother, and if there was any money they would probably use it for a house down payment rather than hookers and blow.  He is tainted severely in their minds and his only contribution to their lives now would be much like a rotted compost can help a garden grow.  The anxiety about how they would be notified is real and it would be nice to be assured how it works -- google was no help sussing out who is responsible for it and puts so much on the "duty" of this or that person to act as named in the will.  I don't trust this chick to respond to any sense of duty.   

The X lives many states away so it is not a matter of stopping by or one day reading a local obit.  The X is 55, the NewForeignWife NFW is 31.  There may not be an obit since he has no family there 2000 miles from everyone who ever mattered to us.

He will not be ailing anytime soon to need a PoA and it seems like the NFW will be gone to younger pastures before he would become infirm.  It doesn't feel like that is the way it would go, and I think she will be watching her youth and fertility slip away (he is snipped) and won't want to hang around while he rusts out.

Nice to "see" you here, MNP. Your voice has been missed. I think you had more of an impact here that you realized. Great to hear you're enjoying your post-FIRE life. Don't be a stranger!

[MissNancyPryor]

Hey Dicey!  Well that is very nice to hear.  Thank you.

[Omy]

If your kids aren't interested in having a relationship with XDH, they should assume zero inheritance. New wife will likely be the gatekeeper to the money. They have to decide how important "no contact"  is to them.

My dad's wife is going to be a nightmare to deal with if my dad goes first. She's savvy and has been setting things up to her financial advantage for years. I will be shocked if we see a penny (and my siblings and I have a good relationship with our father).

[tygertygertyger]

Yeah... my great-uncle and great-aunt never had children, so they listed all their nieces and nephews on their will (including my mom). My great-aunt passed away long before he did, and he told everyone he wouldn't change his will.

Well... one day my mom gets a letter in the mail from a lawyer that included a check for $100. He had passed away some time before, and there had been no death announcement. All the nieces and nephews listed in the original will received only the check for $100... we found out that my great uncle (as he declined in health) had decided to adopt my mid-40s cousin and make her the recipient of the bulk of his estate.

His longtime lawyer had refused to go along with his wishes when he wanted to change his will, so he had found another lawyer to help him adopt her and change the will. The $100 checks were intended to make sure none of the original recipients named would sue the estate.

My mom was livid about not being informed when he died! She had been worried about him for some time. They used to go out to lunch and talk on the phone. She showed up at his house when he hadn't been returning any of her calls, which is when she learned he'd sold the house and not told anyone.

My cousin (who he adopted) and her mom (my mom's sister) told my mom he didn't want to talk to anyone. My mom refused to cash the check. She didn't pursue anything further, but didn't want to "accept" anything in those circumstances.

Good luck to your kids!

[MissNancyPryor]

Yeah... my great-uncle and great-aunt never had children, so they listed all their nieces and nephews on their will (including my mom). My great-aunt passed away long before he did, and he told everyone he wouldn't change his will.
~snip~

Ay ay ay....  people.  Amazing. 

I wouldn't be surprised if the NFW gets him to change everything to give to her since he already objectively ruined his life for her and now he must show that his mid life crisis buffoonery was all worth it by making her fully legitimate.  For now.     

It is also just as possible that he changes it all back one day.... or maybe gives it to a third, fourth, or fifth wife as the estrangement with his kids continues and he never meets his grandchildren.  And he is just as likely to die alone.  Peter Pan refuses to be held to anything he commits to and he may go all in over and over until the music stops and he finds himself standing alone. 

I read that the coroner and funeral directors are supposed to make some legal notifications (like to social security) and I suppose if he was unmarried the local government or sheriff would look for next of kin. 

If he is married at death it is likely the kids wouldn't find out until the current wife absconds with whatever she can get, selling precious things for pennies at a yard sale.  Nothing can be done there.     

The kids are not going to keep even a threadbare relationship with him for the money and have found no contact as the way to protect themselves.         

[Dave1442397]

Ay ay ay....  people.  Amazing. 

I wouldn't be surprised if the NFW gets him to change everything to give to her since he already objectively ruined his life for her and now he must show that his mid life crisis buffoonery was all worth it by making her fully legitimate.  For now.     

It is also just as possible that he changes it all back one day.... or maybe gives it to a third, fourth, or fifth wife as the estrangement with his kids continues and he never meets his grandchildren.  And he is just as likely to die alone.  Peter Pan refuses to be held to anything he commits to and he may go all in over and over until the music stops and he finds himself standing alone. 

I read that the coroner and funeral directors are supposed to make some legal notifications (like to social security) and I suppose if he was unmarried the local government or sheriff would look for next of kin. 

If he is married at death it is likely the kids wouldn't find out until the current wife absconds with whatever she can get, selling precious things for pennies at a yard sale.  Nothing can be done there.     

The kids are not going to keep even a threadbare relationship with him for the money and have found no contact as the way to protect themselves.         

I know here in NJ that the banks will freeze all accounts once notified of the death of the account owner. His new wife may be savvy enough to avoid doing this, and could drain the accounts if she has access.

Social Security would have to be notified. The month of death is the last SS payment. Anything paid out after that because they weren't notified has to be paid back to the gov't.

My neighbor's husband took off with his secretary when their three kids were very young. He pretty much took all their liquid assets with him, and absconded to the Middle East with the secretary. He never paid a penny in child support, but could also never come back to the US because of judgements against him. The secretary died suddenly maybe ten years ago, so he and his money live in exile with little to no contact with his kids. I know they agreed to talk to him at one point, but nothing much came of it. That was all years ago - the youngest kid is 38 now. People can be such assholes.

[Zamboni]

MNP, do you or your daughters have a signed original or even a photocopy of that will naming them as heirs?

There seems to be an assumption on this thread that people are changing their wills frequently as their relationships change. Some people do but I think it's more likely that many people don't get around to it. It's a hassle because it means you have to think about it and then involve a lawyer, notary (some banks will no longer allow staff to notarize wills), and witness signatures.

My state allows a photocopy to be submitted as "the" will in probate, but only if nothing with an inked signature and notary can be found.

But if they/you don't have any copy of a will that he made, then I suspect the point about whether he may have revised it or not is probably moot if he dies while married.