Author Topic: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.  (Read 718246 times)

Imma

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1900 on: October 14, 2019, 02:41:42 PM »
However, upon learning this, disinherited kid #1 complains that it's "not fair" because other siblings have numerically more children and thus the rightful "share" of disinherited #1 is being reduced.

No drama here, but my approach has been to split the inheritance 50/50 between my siblings and their children.  That way, each sibling has a equal share of half my estate, and each of my nieces/nephews receives equal shares of the remaining half.

Otherwise it would have felt weird -- like I was penalizing family members for their having more children.
 
I was fortunate in having a long-time family friend, an ex-IRS attorney, draft the particulars of my will.  I've also been open about it with everyone, so there should be no surprises.

We don't have kids or nieces/nephews so we've decided that 50% of our assets will be split equally among my siblings and the other half goes to his. We don't have an equal amount of siblings so mine will get less.

We've done the opposite and haven't discussed our wills with anyone and I'm not planning to - I don't want people to start nagging about their inheritance while I'm not even dying. We are actually thinking of changing the will and leaving money to close friends instead of to siblings we speak once a year and if we had discussed the contents of our will earlier this would be quite awkward.

Dave1442397

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1901 on: October 16, 2019, 08:28:06 AM »
My mother-in-law keeps changing her mind about her will. I handle all her finances at the moment, and if she were to keel over right now, there's around $150k in property and another $75k in stocks and bonds. Her will currently splits everything four ways to my wife and siblings.

MIL has recently decided that she wants to leave her main condo (worth $100k) to my daughter, so that 'she can enjoy weekends at the beach". She also asked me not to tell anyone else about this, and then promptly told everyone else herself :)

Being financially clueless, she doesn't get that leaving a condo with monthly fees and taxes of around $1200 to a teenager (or us) will not result in a vacation home for said teen. If it happens, the condo will be sold and used as a college fund.

We don't care either way. Sure, it would be nice to have extra college money, but it would definitely cause bad feelings with some family members. We hope she just lives long enough to spend it all.

iris lily

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1902 on: October 16, 2019, 08:28:49 AM »
I am not being open at all about my will Because it is highly likely I will change my mind. Right now our will is set up to divide our state among our siblings and various organizations. I expect we will spend a lot of the money and they値l be less of it to give out As we get older. As that happens I知 gonna cut my siblings out and give to a couple organizations that do the work I like.

Even though both attorneys we have consulted about Wells suggest we talk about it with our errors, I will not do that because it sets up expectations that likely will not occur.

Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1903 on: October 18, 2019, 12:40:41 PM »
I am not being open at all about my will Because it is highly likely I will change my mind. Right now our will is set up to divide our state among our siblings and various organizations. I expect we will spend a lot of the money and they値l be less of it to give out As we get older. As that happens I知 gonna cut my siblings out and give to a couple organizations that do the work I like.

Even though both attorneys we have consulted about Wells suggest we talk about it with our errors, I will not do that because it sets up expectations that likely will not occur.
I think there are some auto fill gremlins afoot in the above post...

Just chiming in to say be sure to use percentages, so the proportions stay the same, even if your nest egg shrinks. That way, everyone you want to remember still gets something.

iris lily

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1904 on: October 18, 2019, 05:39:11 PM »
I am not being open at all about my will Because it is highly likely I will change my mind. Right now our will is set up to divide our state among our siblings and various organizations. I expect we will spend a lot of the money and they値l be less of it to give out As we get older. As that happens I知 gonna cut my siblings out and give to a couple organizations that do the work I like.

Even though both attorneys we have consulted about Wells suggest we talk about it with our errors, I will not do that because it sets up expectations that likely will not occur.
I think there are some auto fill gremlins afoot in the above post...

Just chiming in to say be sure to use percentages, so the proportions stay the same, even if your nest egg shrinks. That way, everyone you want to remember still gets something.

yes, dictation software is fairly unintelligent! Haha

 I will continue to use percentages as my assets dwindle as my current will does mainly because I would want to give enough to make a difference to the organizations.With our siblings, they wont need little pots of money, it would be play money for them.

I will use percentages but will give tofewer people and organizations.

TVRodriguez

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1905 on: October 19, 2019, 10:12:48 AM »
I am not being open at all about my will Because it is highly likely I will change my mind. ....

Even though both attorneys we have consulted about [Wills] suggest we talk about it with our [heirs], I will not do that because it sets up expectations that likely will not occur.

I usually do recommend transparency to my own estate planning clients.  In your case, you are not wrong to keep things under wraps because you are not fully "set" in your plans.  I agree that it would be worse to be open about a plan and then NOT disclose any changes to the plan.  I've been involved in estate and trust litigation based on that very situation.  ("Daddy promised me the family property out in the country and his old Will said I'd get it, and I don't care that his final estate plan that was made with sound mind clearly says different, so I'm going to sue you and I'd rather the attorneys get more than you do over this multi-year litigation because I am sure that Daddy loved me more, so there!")

Rubic

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1906 on: October 22, 2019, 03:00:41 PM »
I usually do recommend transparency to my own estate planning clients.

+1

If someone's paying you for your advice, they ought to at least consider it.  (No refection on iris lily, who has reasons to avoid disclosure.)

My brother and I -- two out of the 4 siblings -- will share executor duties for our parents, and everyone is aware that the inheritance will be distributed equally.

Imma

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1907 on: October 23, 2019, 12:47:11 AM »
The difficult issue is that many people will never fully be 'set' in their estate plans. I can imagine that if you have children and none of them is an addict or something you want to leave everything to them equally but as a childless person, I expect to keep changing my will every 5-10 years for the rest of my life, since friends and relatives may change or pass away.

I agree that openness is important and people have been open to us about their wills which I really appreciate, but I don't want to give anyone any expectations that may not come true.

TVRodriguez

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1908 on: October 23, 2019, 08:52:55 AM »
The difficult issue is that many people will never fully be 'set' in their estate plans. I can imagine that if you have children and none of them is an addict or something you want to leave everything to them equally but as a childless person, I expect to keep changing my will every 5-10 years for the rest of my life, since friends and relatives may change or pass away.

I agree that openness is important and people have been open to us about their wills which I really appreciate, but I don't want to give anyone any expectations that may not come true.

Transparency does not mean telling someone exactly what they are getting and then requiring yourself never to change your plan.  Transparency can mean telling a loved one, "We are thinking of leaving you something if we have any sort of estate when we die, but we don't know how much it will be, if anything.  And we might leave more to charity instead of people, since charitable giving is really important to us, and we know that you and our other loved ones are capable of supporting yourselves.  But we want you to know that you are one of the people who we care about enough to consider naming as a beneficiary.  Just don't count on it!"

SwordGuy

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1909 on: October 23, 2019, 11:07:37 AM »
We had a talk with our son and his wife a few weeks back about our will, etc.   

He knows that a large portion of the estate is to be set up in a special needs trust with a life interest for our mentally handicapped daughter (his sister).    They understand that.   When our daughter passes away the trust would revert to him.

We have a few bequests after that and the rest will go to him.   

We let him know never to count on receiving anything for his retirement plans because stuff happens.   He'll likely get a substantial amount but there's never a guarantee.  One or two bad injuries or lingering illnesses and that money could get sucked away for medical care.

saguaro

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1910 on: October 23, 2019, 02:39:41 PM »
We let him know never to count on receiving anything for his retirement plans because stuff happens.   He'll likely get a substantial amount but there's never a guarantee.  One or two bad injuries or lingering illnesses and that money could get sucked away for medical care.

Yep, there is never a guarantee.   Unfortunately MIL and FIL, who inherited considerable estates from both of their parents, liked to talk about what DH, SIL and grandkids, will get for their "inheritance".   Fortunately, DH, knowing his folks will spend every dime they get, did not depend on this but SIL and granddaughter apparently have counted on getting what is a dwindling estate.  The house in FL that was going to go to SIL?  They had to sell it.  Their current house that was going to DH?  Probably will move out of it fairly soon.  Both FIL and MIL are pushing 90, and their days of independence are ending fast. They are now considering going into assisted living after FIL sustained a couple of falls, and MIL just needs more help as time goes on.    From what we hear, SIL is panicking because she didn't expect her parents to live this long, and her DH is still working at nearly age 69 to make up for spending down his retirement account earlier. 

AMandM

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1911 on: October 24, 2019, 12:13:14 PM »
From what we hear, SIL is panicking because she didn't expect her parents to live this long, and her DH is still working at nearly age 69 to make up for spending down his retirement account earlier.

I am so grateful that I can be happy my father is living a long time.

Just Joe

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1912 on: October 24, 2019, 03:43:00 PM »
We let him know never to count on receiving anything for his retirement plans because stuff happens.   He'll likely get a substantial amount but there's never a guarantee.  One or two bad injuries or lingering illnesses and that money could get sucked away for medical care.

Good on you. I have a parent who told me never to worry about retirement b/c inheritance. Terrible advice. They may or may not have enough money to see them through this life. That last chapter can be very expensive.

Don't know if my parent was testing their powers and influence over me that day or they were just blind to the true costs of old age.

I was quite naive at the time and thought to myself - "OH GOODY!" - and fortunately the reality of the situation dawned on me weeks later and I continued to save-save-save. I'm a slow learner... ;)

saguaro

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1913 on: October 24, 2019, 03:46:59 PM »
From what we hear, SIL is panicking because she didn't expect her parents to live this long, and her DH is still working at nearly age 69 to make up for spending down his retirement account earlier.

I am so grateful that I can be happy my father is living a long time.

My Dad passed at 90 and my Mom a couple of years before but my attitude was that if they could live a good life as long as possible then great.  Their money was there to attend to their needs and if we had to run through it to take care of them, then that is what we had to do.  While they did leave a house and some money, I see it as a bonus and I never, no pun intended, banked on it.  Now getting sister to finally pull the trigger on selling their house is a whole other issue......

jpompo

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1914 on: November 01, 2019, 01:54:35 PM »
My mom died just over a year ago, and while there was no inheritance since my father is still living there was nevertheless plenty of drama. My mother had advanced stage cancer so it was no surprise that she was in her final days, my aunt, her sister, was at my parents house helping to take care of a few things in preparation for the funeral and to spend the last days with her sister. Well, little did any of us realize that those last days would also involve taking jewelry from my mother.

My wife found a ring that my mom inherited from her grandmother in a drawer and said to my aunt, is this your grandmother's ring? At that point my aunt took it and pocketed it, when questioned she said it was for safe keeping, an insured ring that has been in the same spot for over a decade. This is not the hope diamond, it's probably worth $15k. The plot thickens when we find out that one of my mom's last wishes was for that ring to be used in a brooch for cancer survivors. We tell my aunt this and ask for the ring back and she flatly says, "no." I continue to ask for it back and she starts playing the victim, not understanding my "obsession." My father continues to feel immense guilt by not being able to satisfy one of my mom's final wishes.

She wore the ring to my mom's funeral, I didn't say a word to her that day and never will again. Things man, they make people weird.

SwordGuy

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1915 on: November 01, 2019, 01:58:50 PM »
My mom died just over a year ago, and while there was no inheritance since my father is still living there was nevertheless plenty of drama. My mother had advanced stage cancer so it was no surprise that she was in her final days, my aunt, her sister, was at my parents house helping to take care of a few things in preparation for the funeral and to spend the last days with her sister. Well, little did any of us realize that those last days would also involve taking jewelry from my mother.

My wife found a ring that my mom inherited from her grandmother in a drawer and said to my aunt, is this your grandmother's ring? At that point my aunt took it and pocketed it, when questioned she said it was for safe keeping, an insured ring that has been in the same spot for over a decade. This is not the hope diamond, it's probably worth $15k. The plot thickens when we find out that one of my mom's last wishes was for that ring to be used in a brooch for cancer survivors. We tell my aunt this and ask for the ring back and she flatly says, "no." I continue to ask for it back and she starts playing the victim, not understanding my "obsession." My father continues to feel immense guilt by not being able to satisfy one of my mom's final wishes.

She wore the ring to my mom's funeral, I didn't say a word to her that day and never will again. Things man, they make people weird.
I would report the theft.   People with cancer need all the help they can get, and $15k is a lot of help for someone.

You already aren't going to talk to her again, so burning that bridge isn't a downside.   Any relative who would countenance stealing from family without repercussions is a relative that's good to get out of your life.

Maybe I'm just being a hardass, but people who would steal from family like that are shit and should be treated like shit.

talltexan

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1916 on: November 01, 2019, 02:16:26 PM »
I'd like to know more of the backstory about this ring.

How was it assigned by the grandmother to the deceased?

How did the deceased make her wishes about the brooch for cancer survivors known?

Villanelle

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1917 on: November 01, 2019, 02:31:03 PM »
I'd like to know more of the backstory about this ring.

How was it assigned by the grandmother to the deceased?

How did the deceased make her wishes about the brooch for cancer survivors known?

Even if her wishes for cancer survivors weren't know, its still theft.  Nothing was left to the aunt so unless the aunt believes the ring didn't rightfully belong to the mom in the first place, it is theft whether the mom wanted it to be used for cancer support, to be given to her own child, or to be buried with her so that all value was lost. 

If the mom rightfully owned the ring, that's the only thing that mattered. 

Since the relationship with the aunt is already fractured to the point of being broken, I'd likely play hardball and tell her that while I'm glad she's had time to enjoy the ring, it's time to return what she removed from your mother's things and if you don't have the ring by November 15th, you are going to report the theft to your insurance company and the police.  Actually, first I'd send a very polite and somewhat meek email asking if she would please return your mother's ring that she took from the drawer.   That would be in the hopes that she would admit in writing to having taken it.  Then I'd make the threat. 

Not because I would desperately want the ring back, but because stealing from a dead person is pretty fucked up. 

SwordGuy

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1918 on: November 01, 2019, 02:33:38 PM »
I'd like to know more of the backstory about this ring.

How was it assigned by the grandmother to the deceased?

How did the deceased make her wishes about the brooch for cancer survivors known?

Even if her wishes for cancer survivors weren't know, its still theft.  Nothing was left to the aunt so unless the aunt believes the ring didn't rightfully belong to the mom in the first place, it is theft whether the mom wanted it to be used for cancer support, to be given to her own child, or to be buried with her so that all value was lost. 

If the mom rightfully owned the ring, that's the only thing that mattered. 

Since the relationship with the aunt is already fractured to the point of being broken, I'd likely play hardball and tell her that while I'm glad she's had time to enjoy the ring, it's time to return what she removed from your mother's things and if you don't have the ring by November 15th, you are going to report the theft to your insurance company and the police.  Actually, first I'd send a very polite and somewhat meek email asking if she would please return your mother's ring that she took from the drawer.   That would be in the hopes that she would admit in writing to having taken it.  Then I'd make the threat. 

Not because I would desperately want the ring back, but because stealing from a dead person is pretty fucked up.

I concur.   Very good advice if you want the ring back.

jpompo

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1919 on: November 01, 2019, 02:45:01 PM »
I'd like to know more of the backstory about this ring.

How was it assigned by the grandmother to the deceased?

How did the deceased make her wishes about the brooch for cancer survivors known?

Sure.

My great-grandmother had two rings, roughly equal in value. When she passed away they went to my grandmother. When she passed away they were to be split among my grandmothers two children, my mom and my aunt. My mom gave my aunt first choice since my mother wasn't really into jewelry. My grandmother died a decade ago, none of this had ever been contested. My dad and I both recognize it's theft, we spoke with our attorney about it, he said he would draft a demand letter threatening to go to the authorities. With it being a smaller amount we both decided that letting her live with guilt (and making sure to tell her kids she's a thief) was all we were willing to do.

After my mother received the news that her cancer had returned and spread to her lungs and brain she began to plan her own demise. Nothing was written down, but obviously that doesn't matter because it's theft. I hadn't thought about it for awhile but since she died on October 26th, it came to my mind again.

The positive thing that came out of it was my father tightened up his estate planning and it actually brought him and me closer.

Gremlin

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1920 on: November 01, 2019, 09:26:42 PM »
I'd like to know more of the backstory about this ring.

How was it assigned by the grandmother to the deceased?

How did the deceased make her wishes about the brooch for cancer survivors known?

Even if her wishes for cancer survivors weren't know, its still theft.  Nothing was left to the aunt so unless the aunt believes the ring didn't rightfully belong to the mom in the first place, it is theft whether the mom wanted it to be used for cancer support, to be given to her own child, or to be buried with her so that all value was lost. 

If the mom rightfully owned the ring, that's the only thing that mattered. 

Since the relationship with the aunt is already fractured to the point of being broken, I'd likely play hardball and tell her that while I'm glad she's had time to enjoy the ring, it's time to return what she removed from your mother's things and if you don't have the ring by November 15th, you are going to report the theft to your insurance company and the police.  Actually, first I'd send a very polite and somewhat meek email asking if she would please return your mother's ring that she took from the drawer.   That would be in the hopes that she would admit in writing to having taken it.  Then I'd make the threat. 

Not because I would desperately want the ring back, but because stealing from a dead person is pretty fucked up.

Re bolded:  Whether the aunt believes it or not is irrelevant.  It's likely she's using some internal justification that she's entitled to it.  Theft is theft.

Imma

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1921 on: November 02, 2019, 05:09:48 AM »
I don't think aunt is going to feel guilty at all - she saved the ring and now it stays in the family.

Regardless of the value, if she wanted a certain token to remember your mother, she should have asked, even if it had no value at all. Once she learned of your mother's last wishes with the ring, she could have offered a donation to charity in return for the ring - and you could still have said no. She had honest options to get the ring and she didn't even try. Stealing from her late sister's estate was her very first choice.

Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1922 on: November 02, 2019, 06:58:28 AM »
I'd like to know more of the backstory about this ring.

How was it assigned by the grandmother to the deceased?

How did the deceased make her wishes about the brooch for cancer survivors known?

Sure.

My great-grandmother had two rings, roughly equal in value. When she passed away they went to my grandmother. When she passed away they were to be split among my grandmothers two children, my mom and my aunt. My mom gave my aunt first choice since my mother wasn't really into jewelry. My grandmother died a decade ago, none of this had ever been contested. My dad and I both recognize it's theft, we spoke with our attorney about it, he said he would draft a demand letter threatening to go to the authorities. With it being a smaller amount we both decided that letting her live with guilt (and making sure to tell her kids she's a thief) was all we were willing to do.

After my mother received the news that her cancer had returned and spread to her lungs and brain she began to plan her own demise. Nothing was written down, but obviously that doesn't matter because it's theft. I hadn't thought about it for awhile but since she died on October 26th, it came to my mind again.

The positive thing that came out of it was my father tightened up his estate planning and it actually brought him and me closer
.
I'm sorry about the loss of your mom...and your aunt.

The bolded above is the biggest takeaway. Your aunt certainly did wrong, but in the process, you won. I'd pull a Frozen and "Let It Go". Telling your Dad how much you appreciate what's happened since the incident might help assuage his guilt.

While your mother's stated intentions were noble, they were also somewhat impractical. Her generous gift most likely would have minimal impact for another person fighting cancer (says someone who has). Who would have paid to turn the ring into a broach? Who would have been charged with managing the "gift" of the broach? What would have prevented the recipient from selling it to cover a tiny portion of their medical expenses? This does not excuse your aunt's actions, but according to your Mom's wishes, the ring was leaving your immediate family one way or another. Maybe an outright gift to a Breast Cancer Charity of your Dad's choice might be another option to ease his mind over this sad situation.

In my own family, something kind of similar happened with a sibling. I was co-executor and co-trustee, and knew what should have happened, but my "co-" and our other siblings pressed for a different, and incorrect, interpretation, which wrongly benefitted said sibling, who kept something of similar value. I caved to their intense pressure. Unbeknownst to them, my net worth is significantly higher than my parents, and my sibs were all named equal beneficiaries of my estate. I decided to "Let it go" as far as my parent's estate was concerned, but I also changed my will. In the end, forcing me to do the wrong thing will cost them far more than honoring my parent's wishes (and the law) would have. That sounds bitter, but it isn't really. They will still be remembered, but now, so will some additional charities. This allows me to "forget" their behavior at a really stressful time in all of our lives.

SwordGuy

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1923 on: November 02, 2019, 09:14:21 AM »
Life is too short to volunteer to spend it in the company of thieves.


Villanelle

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1924 on: November 02, 2019, 09:56:27 AM »
I'd like to know more of the backstory about this ring.

How was it assigned by the grandmother to the deceased?

How did the deceased make her wishes about the brooch for cancer survivors known?

Even if her wishes for cancer survivors weren't know, its still theft.  Nothing was left to the aunt so unless the aunt believes the ring didn't rightfully belong to the mom in the first place, it is theft whether the mom wanted it to be used for cancer support, to be given to her own child, or to be buried with her so that all value was lost. 

If the mom rightfully owned the ring, that's the only thing that mattered. 

Since the relationship with the aunt is already fractured to the point of being broken, I'd likely play hardball and tell her that while I'm glad she's had time to enjoy the ring, it's time to return what she removed from your mother's things and if you don't have the ring by November 15th, you are going to report the theft to your insurance company and the police.  Actually, first I'd send a very polite and somewhat meek email asking if she would please return your mother's ring that she took from the drawer.   That would be in the hopes that she would admit in writing to having taken it.  Then I'd make the threat. 

Not because I would desperately want the ring back, but because stealing from a dead person is pretty fucked up.

Re bolded:  Whether the aunt believes it or not is irrelevant.  It's likely she's using some internal justification that she's entitled to it.  Theft is theft.

True.  I was referring to the fact that if she believes that, then the aunt is free to pursue that legally.  "Because I want it" isn't a legal strategy.  "Because legally it was never hers to give, and rightfully belonged to me" is.