Author Topic: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.  (Read 1424287 times)

LaineyAZ

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3150 on: July 29, 2023, 08:55:51 AM »
Was going to add, I've never heard of a requirement for the mortuary to notify Social Security.  But I believe there's info on the Social Security website about death records?  Maybe a chat with a SocSec rep would be a place to start.

Related to this, I continue to be amazed at how many people - mostly men - are willing to blow up their lives and those of their families and others around them - just for a physical relationship with a younger person.  Have a friend who was married 40 years who discovered her 65 year old husband having an affair with his 30 year old married co-worker.  Friend got a divorce pronto (to her husband's surprise) and she is managing to cope okay, but their wonderful 2 adult children and young grandchildren have cut ties with him.
I'm genuinely wondering, Was it worth it?  Is it biology, or pride, or ingrained entitlement, or fear of their own mortality, or what?  I'd be curious to read some anonymous discussion from these cheaters if they would give honest answers, especially several years post-divorce.

Villanelle

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3151 on: July 29, 2023, 09:03:42 AM »
Was going to add, I've never heard of a requirement for the mortuary to notify Social Security.  But I believe there's info on the Social Security website about death records?  Maybe a chat with a SocSec rep would be a place to start.

Related to this, I continue to be amazed at how many people - mostly men - are willing to blow up their lives and those of their families and others around them - just for a physical relationship with a younger person.  Have a friend who was married 40 years who discovered her 65 year old husband having an affair with his 30 year old married co-worker.  Friend got a divorce pronto (to her husband's surprise) and she is managing to cope okay, but their wonderful 2 adult children and young grandchildren have cut ties with him.
I'm genuinely wondering, Was it worth it?  Is it biology, or pride, or ingrained entitlement, or fear of their own mortality, or what?  I'd be curious to read some anonymous discussion from these cheaters if they would give honest answers, especially several years post-divorce.

I think they feel they will never get caught, so they never ask, "is this worth losing my relationship with my kids and grand kids".  So IMO it's more just a divorce (ha) from reality and what could happen.  They act on impulse and lust and the insecurity of aging, rather than saying, "I want to be with this woman so much that I'm willing to risk my relationships with my entire family".

Adventine

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3152 on: July 29, 2023, 09:40:26 AM »
Was going to add, I've never heard of a requirement for the mortuary to notify Social Security.  But I believe there's info on the Social Security website about death records?  Maybe a chat with a SocSec rep would be a place to start.

Related to this, I continue to be amazed at how many people - mostly men - are willing to blow up their lives and those of their families and others around them - just for a physical relationship with a younger person.  Have a friend who was married 40 years who discovered her 65 year old husband having an affair with his 30 year old married co-worker.  Friend got a divorce pronto (to her husband's surprise) and she is managing to cope okay, but their wonderful 2 adult children and young grandchildren have cut ties with him.
I'm genuinely wondering, Was it worth it?  Is it biology, or pride, or ingrained entitlement, or fear of their own mortality, or what?  I'd be curious to read some anonymous discussion from these cheaters if they would give honest answers, especially several years post-divorce.

I think they feel they will never get caught, so they never ask, "is this worth losing my relationship with my kids and grand kids".  So IMO it's more just a divorce (ha) from reality and what could happen.  They act on impulse and lust and the insecurity of aging, rather than saying, "I want to be with this woman so much that I'm willing to risk my relationships with my entire family".


Some older men also seek out younger women because they think they're more impressionable and aren't as financially secure or established in their own careers, and so more easily "controlled."

MissNancyPryor

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3153 on: July 29, 2023, 09:55:17 AM »
MNP, do you or your daughters have a signed original or even a photocopy of that will naming them as heirs?

There seems to be an assumption on this thread that people are changing their wills frequently as their relationships change. Some people do but I think it's more likely that many people don't get around to it. It's a hassle because it means you have to think about it and then involve a lawyer, notary (some banks will no longer allow staff to notarize wills), and witness signatures.

My state allows a photocopy to be submitted as "the" will in probate, but only if nothing with an inked signature and notary can be found.

But if they/you don't have any copy of a will that he made, then I suspect the point about whether he may have revised it or not is probably moot if he dies while married.

We know for sure that the will was changed after our divorce in 2017 and he was in touch with our daughters to confirm that new status and got their contact information to include.  He was prompt on the update to exclude me (I did the same). 

That is why we think he might have left it to stand with the daughters while their relationship crumbled and the NFW was finally let out of the shadows.  He had denied her existence at the top of his lungs until 2019 and then ended up marrying her when covid stopped the world and he could no longer do international work for his job.  I think the only way to keep her in the states was to marry her. 

He bought a house in 2020 when covid kept him from working internationally and then added the NFW to the deed in 2022.  This is the moment he might have changed his will if he was going to, since he was deliberately giving this chick half his house, why not half of everything else. 

Except....  to his twisted mind he is the daddy and she is the little girl with clunky English, he is the big stud engineer and she is a 'mere' accountant, he is the masterful American and she is his sex maid.  With his astounding ability to deny reality he might have left his will alone and hoped that his daughters would come around (that his how he did everything else in life - do something horrid and if enough time goes by all must be forgiven without ever addressing or admitting to a thing).  The relationship is based entirely on the lopsided quality of it so giving her half his wealth seems out of character for him.  We wondered if putting her on the deed was an effort to help with her immigration.   

Yes, if he never changed the will but there are no copies to be found and we have another Destroyer in the NFW it might be moot.  Anything where they were not named beneficiaries could easily be taken by the widow and there is nothing that would be done. 

To be clear, the break down between our daughters and him is complete.  They wish him dead because it would be easier and already did all their grieving for the father they once knew.  He is a monstrous cartoon now.  They will live fine without the money and are more bothered by the uncertainty than anything, and feeling sad about some of the personal items from their grandma that they will never see again.           
« Last Edit: July 29, 2023, 10:33:08 AM by MissNancyPryor »

MissNancyPryor

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3154 on: July 29, 2023, 10:23:30 AM »
Was going to add, I've never heard of a requirement for the mortuary to notify Social Security.  But I believe there's info on the Social Security website about death records?  Maybe a chat with a SocSec rep would be a place to start.

Related to this, I continue to be amazed at how many people - mostly men - are willing to blow up their lives and those of their families and others around them - just for a physical relationship with a younger person.  Have a friend who was married 40 years who discovered her 65 year old husband having an affair with his 30 year old married co-worker.  Friend got a divorce pronto (to her husband's surprise) and she is managing to cope okay, but their wonderful 2 adult children and young grandchildren have cut ties with him.
I'm genuinely wondering, Was it worth it?  Is it biology, or pride, or ingrained entitlement, or fear of their own mortality, or what?  I'd be curious to read some anonymous discussion from these cheaters if they would give honest answers, especially several years post-divorce.

I think they feel they will never get caught, so they never ask, "is this worth losing my relationship with my kids and grand kids".  So IMO it's more just a divorce (ha) from reality and what could happen.  They act on impulse and lust and the insecurity of aging, rather than saying, "I want to be with this woman so much that I'm willing to risk my relationships with my entire family".


Some older men also seek out younger women because they think they're more impressionable and aren't as financially secure or established in their own careers, and so more easily "controlled."

He blew up the family in stunning and brutal fashion, total abandonment without a hint, we didn't even have a fight.  No conversations.  I got an e-mail and came home from a business  trip to find the house empty of all of his belongings.  Poof.  His daughters got a text.  We had been together 31 years.   

It was not his first affair with a younger co-worker.  When confronted he lied and raged, but the truth was found soon.  He was shocked that his daughters didn't fall in line to amputate mom and overlook the fact he chose someone his daughter's age to bang.  He told them to grow a spine, get over it, and stop being bitter, arrogant bitches and get going along with his grand new life plan.  He deserved to be happy you see.  Just for once in his life.   

And hey, they also needed to find his new apartment, keep a huge sum of money in their checking account for him, and would they mind terribly if he offered drugs to one of their friends at a college house party, right in front of them?  Cool dad.  Any attempts to discuss anything were met with rage and physical violence to the point they have determined they will never be alone with him again.  Yes, that bad.     

A much younger chick he can look down on is perfect for him, but also he will become angry that she doesn't do at least half.  He was a rolling-goalposts guy for sure and will become exasperated that he is dragging around this much younger chick who doesn't understand any of his cultural and age-related references.  Since he is a covert narc and passive aggressive jack wang he will certainly blame her for 'making him' abandon his family and will be looking at her daily and challenging her on whether she was worth it. 

He did not get a character transplant.   

iluvzbeach

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3155 on: July 29, 2023, 10:35:00 AM »
MNP - sounds like NFW did you a favor by taking him off your hands!  Good riddance to him...

MissNancyPryor

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3156 on: July 29, 2023, 10:41:07 AM »
MNP - sounds like NFW did you a favor by taking him off your hands!  Good riddance to him...

I can see that now, but it took a long time to really believe that.  He made sure to rage at me, too, and assure me that it was 100% my fault and that everything he did was because of me.  He is truly sick. 

Adventine

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3157 on: July 29, 2023, 12:53:04 PM »
@MissNancyPryor I'm sorry he treated you and his daughters so badly.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3158 on: July 29, 2023, 01:40:41 PM »
@MissNancyPryor I'm sorry he treated you and his daughters so badly.

Thank you.  I don't think we will ever really be over it but we are learning to live with it.  My daughters and I have a better relationship now than before he poofed and they don't suffer fools.  I am grateful they are unswayed by his demands to be the pater familia and his insistence that they overlook everything and that he is owed respect because "He is Their Father." 

He was shocked to hell to find out they are grown women who have decided his behavior is intolerable and life is way better without him.  I am the sane parent.   

He will face the consequences of his selfish choices for the rest of his life, long or short. 

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3159 on: July 31, 2023, 06:30:37 AM »
MNP - sounds like NFW did you a favor by taking him off your hands!  Good riddance to him...

x1000!  And @MissNancyPryor this is another great thing about being FIRE.  Just imagine what hell this would have been if you'd been financially dependent on your Ex, like so many other women. 

I wouldn't necessarily assume that Ex and his new wife won't last.  You never know - I've seen couples like this last a long time in my own family and friends circles and -since she's European and an accountant- it's unlikely she is just after a green card. 

At any rate, if I were your daughters and certain family heirlooms in his possession really meant a lot to me, I'd reach out to the Ex just one last time to ask him about these.  Maybe he'd be willing to hand them over now or put them as line items in his will.   But I'd weigh carefully whether these items are really important enough to them to warrant having to communicate with their dad.  Is inheriting grandma's china or grandpa's photos really worth this stress?  In my own personal life, I've had to learn to let go of certain sentimental things from my childhood - including things that I made as a child with my parent - in order to keep the peace with a step parent.  No idea why my parent's spouse wanted these items which I made with my parent as a child about 30 years before they met - but it risked becoming a power struggle so I just let it go.  I try to reason that I have too much clutter in my house anyway so these sentimental things would just add to the clutter anyway. Most important is my mental health.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2023, 08:01:15 AM by Hula Hoop »

MissNancyPryor

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3160 on: July 31, 2023, 10:36:48 AM »
No, none of it is worth breaking no contact.  That is why no contact has not been broken.  The question about how (if) the girls might be informed of his death is a legitimate one but they are never going to set up a false connection with him over stuff or his money.  They have more character than that.  And it was more than grandma's things, he looted as he left. 

Example:  When he abandoned the home he took some things he should not have, including an extensive and rare vinyl record collection for an esoteric band that was a gift to the youngest daughter for her 16th birthday.  He loved that band too and was the one who found the collection on eBay back then so he believed he deserved to have it.  Other people aren't real anyway so he saw no problem in taking things he wanted (he took things he had given to me and gave them to the new girlfriend since I am not a real person, either-- when challenged about this he claimed I never liked them anyway so he had the right....such a complete Asshat).   

Daughter was away at college and we didn't realize they were gone until months later when she came back one final time to pack her room as the home was sold, and at that point he was already having raging blowouts with the girls and she decided to give up on ever getting her things back.  Daughter is 28 now and would really like to have them, but she will never, ever reach out to retrieve the gift.  Not worth it.  She does not even want him knowing where she lives.  She told me not to try to retrieve anything either.

Side note- at abandonment he also took EVERY SINGLE framed picture of our daughters as young girls up till age 8 or so, but none of them as older teenagers and adults-- dozens of framed things from the home.  Fortunately the younger daughter saw him that first day and told him hell-to-the-no you do not get to abandon mom and then also steal every picture of her little girls, so he brought them back with the idea I would get him copies.  Once the extent of his deceit was understood the girls refuse to allow him to have any of their pictures, and he never once asked me for them after that.  He never asked for pictures of his kids.  What a shit.   

We accept that he set our house on fire when he pulled his colossal dick move of abandonment, and everything he took is gone forever. 

It is still fair to wonder how we will hear about it when he croaks.         

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3161 on: July 31, 2023, 11:17:53 AM »
"It is still fair to wonder how we will hear about it when he croaks."

Real answer? You may not. Or you may hear about it significantly afterwards. If lawyers, insurance companies, or law enforcement need to track you down for some reason, you'll find out. If his family or friends have a way to contact you they may decide to notify you. Otherwise, it'll likely be chance. Very good chance you won't hear in time to go to a funeral even if you wanted to go.

I highly recommend therapy to help work through the tangle of emotions if you haven't already. And good chance therapy will be needed again when he does die.

MissNancyPryor

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3162 on: July 31, 2023, 11:28:28 AM »
Yep.  That is the bottom line.

We have done extensive emotional labor and sought all kinds of help and therapy to work through this, individually and as the family unit that remains.  That is why we know what is actually valuable (not stuff, not money) and have zero expectations that he will ever be a decent guy.  We have zero false ideals about "daddy."  We are pretty healthy, considering.  We will see what happens when he departs but we are prepared to deal similarly. 

Sandi_k

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3163 on: July 31, 2023, 11:56:57 AM »
MNP: When my dad passed, 43 years after he left us, he was also estranged from his two sisters. Their "breakup" was over his behavior when their dad passed.

I knew this, and so when he passed, *my* mom asked if my stepmom or half sister would inform his siblings. I told her I thought it unlikely, as all family relationships had been "guarded" - we had to go through him. Given the gatekeeping, I wasn't sure that my stepmom would have any idea on how to reach out to them.

Well, my sweet Southern mom - who had had these two ladies as her SILs from age 18 to age 34 - decided that she would find them so they knew.

All three of them had gone to the same high school, back in the 1950's. So she had her "class chair" reach out to the "class chair" for the younger SIL, with whom she'd been closest. We knew her married name. In the alumni directory, my aunt had noted that she was fine with her phone number and email address being released to other alums....so the class chair for Aunt Helen gave the contact info to the class chair for my mom. (Even funnier, the younger class chair had been in my parents wedding in 1958!).

So my incredible mom got Aunt Helen's phone number, and PICKED UP THE PHONE to call her, 40 years after mom and dad divorced.

What has ensued these past 10 years has been amazing: we are now back in touch with most of dad's family, including me and my siblings being in touch with our cousins. We all gathered at my other aunt's house in 2017, which was lovely, cathartic, and amazing. The aunts have been out twice to visit us, and one cousin reached out for dinner when he was in the area, too.

So - if you have former ILs with whom you are close, perhaps your girls could ask for notification when he passes, without breaking the NC commitment.

I am so sorry - this is an awful betrayal of you and your daughters, and I am so glad that you can see clearly that staying NC with a malignant narcissist is the smart thing to do. (As a side benefit, it drives them nuts!) ;)

Turtle

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3164 on: July 31, 2023, 12:01:29 PM »
When my ex passed away earlier this summer, it was their uncle who let my kids know.  If there is anyone in your ex's extended family whom your kids are still speaking with, it is possible they would find out that way.

My kiddos also both got something in the mail from the insurance company which my ex's company used. The younger one was addressed to my house and the older to that grown kid's house.  The way it was done with my address rather than my ex's make me think that perhaps the 2nd spouse wasn't aware of this.

Inertia is a powerful force, especially with a narcissist who wants to do what they want to do and not be bothered with boring busywork.  So I would recommend your kids keep up to date forwarding orders in for the addresses where they lived at the time your ex's will was made, even if they use your house as the forwarding address.

Social Security didn't know about my spouse passing away until I called and told them, despite SSN being required on death certificates in my state.  I wasn't particularly quick about it because there were no payments which needed to be stopped, and I knew the death benefit was tiny.  Maybe they would have eventually found out, but it was 3 or 4 months as I recall, which I would have thought was enough time in the computer age.

That's my relatively recent experience, if any of it is helpful.

It may also be beneficial to set up a Google alert on your ex's name plus the term Obit.  Funeral homes and crematoriums generally put something online nowadays, even without putting anything in a local newspaper.

MissNancyPryor

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3165 on: July 31, 2023, 12:24:08 PM »
@Sandi_k and @Turtle, your contributions are helpful as having recent experience, thanks.  Sounds like at minimum the juicy gossip could get the better of the flying monkey relatives and the genuinely good hearted ones might feel a sense of duty.  They were all in our lives for 31 years till he destroyed the family with this voluntary trauma and that time does leave echoes of connection.   

I have kept the same landline telephone number we had for decades and even though I only get garbage calls on it I have paid the $10 a month so it is out there.  During their final declarations of no contact to their dad, both girls told him the house number is the same if something tragic happens (like he gets cancer) then he can call me.  My address is also publicly searchable so anyone could write, and I still use the same old e-mail addresses.  Anyone else could easily find me and we share the same unusual last name with a long list of publicly-visible property history so I am totally discoverable.  I do have a google alert set on him.

You can bet I will be updating this thread if something ever happens!         

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3166 on: August 03, 2023, 11:44:15 AM »
Does X (or NFW) have a public social media presence?  Does anyone have the stomach to check annually/semi-annually to see if he's still alive? 

If they are beneficiaries on bank or brokerage accounts it's unlikely that the financial institution will notify you of his death.  They don't have beneficiary contact info (at least I've never been asked for it) and won't waste time trying to track you down.  Money will eventually go to the state as abandoned (at least in CA).  Heir/beneficiary can get it from the state by jumping through lots of hoops.  If there is a will that's being handled by an attorney they will look for heirs.

Google tells me the life expectancy of a 55 year old man is another 25 years.  He'll have moved on to another wife by then.  :-/

MissNancyPryor

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3167 on: August 03, 2023, 09:59:03 PM »
Everyone has blocked everyone on socials over the years.  I think the others here were right that some flying monkey will get the word to me with evil glee in hoping to poke at old wounds, or perhaps some relative with good intentions will want us to know and I am highly traceable.  I will continue to check on him once in a while to see where he shows up publicly.  Good thing the name is unusual enough to help with that.     

« Last Edit: August 03, 2023, 10:18:15 PM by MissNancyPryor »

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3168 on: August 04, 2023, 09:09:10 AM »
One of my friend's father passed away back in 2016 and left the son and his other son ~ $300,000 from the sale of the house, retirement savings, etc.  At the time my friend did not know what to do with his life after graduating college and decided to join the military at 25 years of age.  Ok, no problem, but like all military members the need to rush into marriage was pushed on him.  What  does he do?  He marries a woman after dating 2 months.  It take less than a year for them to have their first child.  Ok not a problem this happens all the time in the military. 

Here is where the fun begins.  After deploying to his first assignment, they need to build a brand new home because they can't rent with a child.  Where do they get the down payment, you guessed it the inheritance money.  Mind you this after multiple disney trips, international trip, new cars, etc.,  Ok, not a problem, it's his money he can do as pleases.  What does the wife do during this time?  You guessed it, not work.  So she stays at home and pulls a $5,000 a month to cover groceries, general spending, etc. to supplement her lost wages from working (granted she never brought home this much to begin with).   

5 years later, it is time to move because of a new deployment and they have to sell their house.  They have about $40,000 in equity at this point, so they sell the house and use this to buy a $400,000 house with 10% down on a VA loan.  After moving in to their new(used) place they discovered an issue with their plumbing which required a $25,0000 repair.  Where did they get this money for the repair?  A personal loan...

Some people are given a golden ticket and piss it away.  It's hard at times to be empathetic with people that cause their own problems. 

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3169 on: August 04, 2023, 09:19:36 AM »

Some people are given a golden ticket and piss it away.  It's hard at times to be empathetic with people that cause their own problems.

The sad thing is that there are lots of people who would think this was perfectly normal behaviour.  Except maybe the getting married to someone so fast.  But, the financial stuff would be completely normal.


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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3170 on: August 04, 2023, 12:46:47 PM »
Yes, my parents have received multiple inheritances and lawsuit settlement windfalls. Each time my Dad and Step Mom tell me "oh good, we got this big chunk of money so we can pay off the cards / build an addition to our house / throw a big party / go on nice vacations and now we are all set." Then, less than a year later, the money is gone and they are racking up their cards again and calling their kids literally crying when a totally normal thing happens like routine home or car maintenance is needed. They've done this four times. Seriously.

It never occurs to them to invest the money from windfalls and earn interest instead of immediately spending it all. I've resigned myself to the fact that they are mentally incapable of being on the winning side of compound interest. It is just how they roll.

Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3171 on: August 04, 2023, 04:27:33 PM »
Yes, my parents have received multiple inheritances and lawsuit settlement windfalls. Each time my Dad and Step Mom tell me "oh good, we got this big chunk of money so we can pay off the cards / build an addition to our house / throw a big party / go on nice vacations and now we are all set." Then, less than a year later, the money is gone and they are racking up their cards again and calling their kids literally crying when a totally normal thing happens like routine home or car maintenance is needed. They've done this four times. Seriously.

It never occurs to them to invest the money from windfalls and earn interest instead of immediately spending it all. I've resigned myself to the fact that they are mentally incapable of being on the winning side of compound interest. It is just how they roll.
Wow.

saguaro

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3172 on: August 16, 2023, 12:28:44 PM »
It never occurs to them to invest the money from windfalls and earn interest instead of immediately spending it all. I've resigned myself to the fact that they are mentally incapable of being on the winning side of compound interest. It is just how they roll.

Also will say "wow"

I inherited money 4 years ago from my parents estate that was mostly sale of their home and I still have 100% of that and then some.

One sister did some improvements on her house but other sister's husband bought a vintage Corvette, for which he has to pay for storage and other related costs.  This is the guy who wants to retire like right now but spends money like crazy especially when it comes to cars.  Sister is annoyed at his constant complaints about still working and wanting to retire (doesn't help that he's younger and still wants HER to work) yet when they got a good financial boost it was spend, spend, spend.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3173 on: August 16, 2023, 12:31:40 PM »
It never occurs to them to invest the money from windfalls and earn interest instead of immediately spending it all. I've resigned myself to the fact that they are mentally incapable of being on the winning side of compound interest. It is just how they roll.

Also will say "wow"

I inherited money 4 years ago from my parents estate that was mostly sale of their home and I still have 100% of that and then some.

One sister did some improvements on her house but other sister's husband bought a vintage Corvette, for which he has to pay for storage and other related costs.  This is the guy who wants to retire like right now but spends money like crazy especially when it comes to cars.  Sister is annoyed at his constant complaints about still working and wanting to retire (doesn't help that he's younger and still wants HER to work) yet when they got a good financial boost it was spend, spend, spend.

* I blew nearly all of the $60,000 I inherited from my mother. And that would’ve been entirely with her blessing because I have plenty of money myself and she was always urging me to “spend some of that money! “ I waltzed around acting  like Lady Bountiful with some of it, giving large chunks to organizations I respect.

* I highly approve of buying an antique Corvette.

Just offering alternate point of use here!
« Last Edit: August 16, 2023, 12:33:11 PM by iris lily »

saguaro

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3174 on: August 16, 2023, 12:50:47 PM »
It never occurs to them to invest the money from windfalls and earn interest instead of immediately spending it all. I've resigned myself to the fact that they are mentally incapable of being on the winning side of compound interest. It is just how they roll.

Also will say "wow"

I inherited money 4 years ago from my parents estate that was mostly sale of their home and I still have 100% of that and then some.

One sister did some improvements on her house but other sister's husband bought a vintage Corvette, for which he has to pay for storage and other related costs.  This is the guy who wants to retire like right now but spends money like crazy especially when it comes to cars.  Sister is annoyed at his constant complaints about still working and wanting to retire (doesn't help that he's younger and still wants HER to work) yet when they got a good financial boost it was spend, spend, spend.

* I blew nearly all of the $60,000 I inherited from my mother. And that would’ve been entirely with her blessing because I have plenty of money myself and she was always urging me to “spend some of that money! “ I waltzed around acting  like Lady Bountiful with some of it, giving large chunks to organizations I respect.

* I highly approve of buying an antique Corvette.

Just offering alternate point of use here!

No worries here.  :)

Full disclosure, DH and I blew (mostly) through a small inheritance left by DH's maternal grandparents years ago.  We were young and just starting out, the money made our early years (20s) a bit more fun allowing us to take some travelling vacations, get a car when we needed one but we paid off some debts too.   Did take out IRAs which still exist. 

Nothing wrong with a Corvette, it's a pretty cool car and hope BIL is enjoying it.  It's just interesting in light of that he wants to retire and I understand it's an ongoing argument with sister over affordability and that she is still working and has to. 

ducky19

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3175 on: August 16, 2023, 01:14:25 PM »
Yeah, it's one thing to blow through the money when it's entirely not needed, vs. spending it on a (let's face it) frivolous purchase when you want to retire but can't. We used a $10k inheritance from my grandmother towards a down payment on a rental property. I wasn't expecting anything, so it was a welcome surprise. I felt like that was a proper way to honor my grandmother, who was frugal and worked hard all her life as a mother and farmer's wife.

former player

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3176 on: August 16, 2023, 01:41:24 PM »
The thing about the Corvette is something that blew my mind a while ago: that there are assets which make money and assets that cost money.

Assets that make money are e.g. equities and rental properties.  Assets that cost money are e.g owner-occupied houses, cars, jewellery, art, horses, and so on.

The reason lottery winners and people with inheritances go broke is not entirely that they "waste" money (although some do), it's that they buy the sorts of assets that cost money rather than the sorts of assets that make money.

merula

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3177 on: August 16, 2023, 03:42:27 PM »
This one is pretty depressing. I moved into my house 8 years ago, and met the next-door neighbors, a nice husband and wife with a (then) preschool-aged daughter. A month later, the wife passed away after a brief illness.

Since then, the widower has appeared to be a stay-at-home dad. I figured there was life insurance or maybe he's got a flexible WFH job, don't know, not my place, and he's the kind to keep to himself. The daughter has become close friends with my kids, and a few months back my kid told me that she'd told him that her dad didn't work and they were just spending all the money they had and when it ran out they'd have to move. I told him that I was sure she was mistaken, parents don't always share all the financial details with their kids, etc. etc.

Skip ahead to when I forgot a different neighbor's wife's name so I went to the county property records to look it up... and found out that this neighbor's house is in forfeiture because property taxes haven't been paid for longer than the online records go back, and it's scheduled to be up for auction at some point this year.

I know that people spend money they should save, even when that hurts their kids, but this just floored me. 7.5 years he could have done something, anything, to provide for his daughter and he just.... chose not to?

economista

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3178 on: August 16, 2023, 03:47:20 PM »
@merula - that is super depressing and I can't imagine losing a spouse with a preschool aged child. I'm assuming he had really severed depression that has led to the situation he is in. I hope he gets the help he needs! (Said as a person who has a 2.5 and 3.5 year old).

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3179 on: August 18, 2023, 12:32:21 PM »
@merula - That is shocking to me as well but my children's paternal grandmother did something similar. She had an 11yo child living at home when her fiance died in spectacular way that was on the news. She received a settlement- I've heard it was $300K.

She didn't work and sent the kid to private school. Within a few years all the money was gone and they were literally homeless and sleeping on her mother's floor in a one-bedroom senior apartment. I think if you aren't used to having money, you don't really have a concept of it as a thing that can last? She had always worked in low-wage pink-collar jobs and they always lived pretty paycheck-to-paycheck (my ex, who was much older than his sister, remembers periods of hotel-type homelessness).

The daughter hasn't spoken to her mother in years. It's really sad.

Siebrie

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3180 on: August 21, 2023, 02:26:00 AM »
Not exactly inheritance drama, but digital clean-up drama: my Father passed away in May; the last 10 years he spent a lot of his time on his tablet. I have been spending hours on this tablet ever since his passing: opening all the apps, checking if it needed a log-in, checking if it was requiring payment, stopping the payment, unsubscribing. Then, I do the same for the websites (because the 'favourite' websites do not match up to the apps). Checking if the websites have actually stopped taking payment, or have reimbursed any moneys paid. Finding passwords, keeping track of log-in details,....

My Mother (87) wants to use this tablet, but is afraid of hackers. Some programmes are still needed, so they can't be removed, and the tablet can't be reset to factory settings.

Many of the emails come from websites he subscribed to, which confuses my Mother no end, so unsubscribing was a hell of a task. She still wanted to see what my Father was interested in, but is also confused if an email invites her to a workshop or reading on a subject my Father was interested in.

I didn't realise on how many places I had to unable the notification emails on Meta, for instance. I don't have Meta, and after seeing this, I definitely don't want it.

Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3181 on: August 21, 2023, 06:02:16 AM »
Ugh, sending condolences on the loss of your Father. Thank goodness you can be there for your Mother. 《HUGS》

Sibley

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3182 on: August 21, 2023, 11:41:21 AM »
Not exactly inheritance drama, but digital clean-up drama: my Father passed away in May; the last 10 years he spent a lot of his time on his tablet. I have been spending hours on this tablet ever since his passing: opening all the apps, checking if it needed a log-in, checking if it was requiring payment, stopping the payment, unsubscribing. Then, I do the same for the websites (because the 'favourite' websites do not match up to the apps). Checking if the websites have actually stopped taking payment, or have reimbursed any moneys paid. Finding passwords, keeping track of log-in details,....

My Mother (87) wants to use this tablet, but is afraid of hackers. Some programmes are still needed, so they can't be removed, and the tablet can't be reset to factory settings.

Many of the emails come from websites he subscribed to, which confuses my Mother no end, so unsubscribing was a hell of a task. She still wanted to see what my Father was interested in, but is also confused if an email invites her to a workshop or reading on a subject my Father was interested in.

I didn't realise on how many places I had to unable the notification emails on Meta, for instance. I don't have Meta, and after seeing this, I definitely don't want it.

It is HARD to turn off the facebook emails. I seem to have mostly accomplished this, but it took multiple attempts.

Given the age, there's no way it's getting updates. If your mother just wants to use it to play a few games, that's probably ok. But for other things a new(er) tablet may be safer.

Sugaree

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3183 on: September 25, 2023, 08:58:12 AM »
In a situation that I really hope my parents are paying attention to, one of mom's cousins failed to get a Medicaid asset protection trust in place before needing to be admitted into long term care.  One of her children has already received "his inheritance" via cash gifts to buy a house.  The idea was that he would get enough to buy a place in the city he lived in and she would get the family home free and clear, which seemed fair because the family home is worth significantly more than he received.  They both supposedly agreed to early and less vs. later and more.  These cash gifts took place long enough ago that they fall outside the lookback period, while the trust didn't get set up until 2-3 years ago.  At this point, the reality of LTC cost has hit and it appears that the parent will likely burn through all of their cash/savings before it's all said and done (physically doing okay, but needs memory care, so could very well be in the nursing home for years) and will need Medicaid for LTC.  Because the trust is less than 5 years old, it will be subject to asset recovery.  So, while neither sibling is likely to receive anything from "the estate", one sibling is extra salty and has made some noise about eventually suing her brother for half of what he received from their mom to buy his house.  I can understand why she's upset and it's not fair, but it's going to likely get a whole lot uglier before it gets better. 
« Last Edit: September 25, 2023, 08:59:49 AM by Sugaree »

Captain FIRE

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3184 on: September 25, 2023, 09:03:27 AM »
Oof. How close is the mom to reaching the 5 year look back? Would it be possible for her to cover the costs to get to the five year mark? (I don’t know if that’s legal though.)

Sugaree

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3185 on: September 25, 2023, 09:35:47 AM »
Oof. How close is the mom to reaching the 5 year look back? Would it be possible for her to cover the costs to get to the five year mark? (I don’t know if that’s legal though.)

My understanding is that they are going to have to spend down all of the mom's assets before applying to Medicaid.  If there is enough to cover it until the lookback period is up (2.5-ish years or so) then it should be okay.  The lookback period starts when you apply for Medicaid and not necessarily when you entered care.  However, if there's not enough assets to cover the rest of the lookback and she has to apply for Medicaid that will trigger a penalty period where Medicaid won't cover the expenses anyway.  I don't see either of the kids being able to come up with that kind of cash, even for a few months, so it's likely the house would have to be sold. 

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3186 on: September 25, 2023, 07:50:11 PM »
In a situation that I really hope my parents are paying attention to, one of mom's cousins failed to get a Medicaid asset protection trust in place before needing to be admitted into long term care.  One of her children has already received "his inheritance" via cash gifts to buy a house.  The idea was that he would get enough to buy a place in the city he lived in and she would get the family home free and clear, which seemed fair because the family home is worth significantly more than he received.  They both supposedly agreed to early and less vs. later and more.  These cash gifts took place long enough ago that they fall outside the lookback period, while the trust didn't get set up until 2-3 years ago.  At this point, the reality of LTC cost has hit and it appears that the parent will likely burn through all of their cash/savings before it's all said and done (physically doing okay, but needs memory care, so could very well be in the nursing home for years) and will need Medicaid for LTC.  Because the trust is less than 5 years old, it will be subject to asset recovery.  So, while neither sibling is likely to receive anything from "the estate", one sibling is extra salty and has made some noise about eventually suing her brother for half of what he received from their mom to buy his house.  I can understand why she's upset and it's not fair, but it's going to likely get a whole lot uglier before it gets better.

Watch and learn, mustachians:
If you elect to give children their "inheritance" early, always give all children the same amount at the same time regardless of their need. Then you may avoid this type of kerfuffle between your children later.
This is, of course, assuming that there are no extenuating circumstances that need to be treated more carefully, such as an adult with a disability who needs more for care, or an adult with a massive substance abuse problem who can't handle having money responsibly.

Villanelle

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3187 on: September 26, 2023, 09:41:11 AM »
In a situation that I really hope my parents are paying attention to, one of mom's cousins failed to get a Medicaid asset protection trust in place before needing to be admitted into long term care.  One of her children has already received "his inheritance" via cash gifts to buy a house.  The idea was that he would get enough to buy a place in the city he lived in and she would get the family home free and clear, which seemed fair because the family home is worth significantly more than he received.  They both supposedly agreed to early and less vs. later and more.  These cash gifts took place long enough ago that they fall outside the lookback period, while the trust didn't get set up until 2-3 years ago.  At this point, the reality of LTC cost has hit and it appears that the parent will likely burn through all of their cash/savings before it's all said and done (physically doing okay, but needs memory care, so could very well be in the nursing home for years) and will need Medicaid for LTC.  Because the trust is less than 5 years old, it will be subject to asset recovery.  So, while neither sibling is likely to receive anything from "the estate", one sibling is extra salty and has made some noise about eventually suing her brother for half of what he received from their mom to buy his house.  I can understand why she's upset and it's not fair, but it's going to likely get a whole lot uglier before it gets better.

That's a tough one.  It wasn't handled optimally by mom originally. That's neither child's fault, but now there's a mess where it kind of falls on the children to come to a fair solution. 

Does DS have enough money to float medical costs for a year or two, to get mom to the end of the clawback?  Would that even work, legally?  Heck, even if the DD agreed to pay him back some of that once she got and presumably sold the house (which would eat away at the 50/50 fairness, but be better than nothing for her), that would still leave DD with something instead of nothing. 

What a mess.  And as Zamboni point out, this demonstrates the need to be do everything evenly up front.  Mom could have signed the house over to DD, with a contract that allowed mom to stay in it rent-free until death, for example.  It's one thing if it is a small amount compared to the size of the estate (e.g. a $1m estate and someone gets $20k to get them to 20% on a house and avoid PMI).  But when it is half or a significant portion of the estate, it sets up so many opportunities for problems.

I think sometimes parents forget that their estate isn't just money that will help their children.  It's also something that can dramatically affect the relationship between those children.  While she had no ill intent and everyone agreed to this situation, it is likely going to do irreparable damage to the sibling's relationship.  And had mom consulted a lawyer and spent a couple hundred dollars, she likely would have been advised against this, or advised to transfer the house to Sister now, not set up the trust immediately.  Instead, she has children who are likely going to deeply resent each other, all because of how the estate division happened.


mm1970

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3188 on: September 26, 2023, 10:49:54 AM »
In a situation that I really hope my parents are paying attention to, one of mom's cousins failed to get a Medicaid asset protection trust in place before needing to be admitted into long term care.  One of her children has already received "his inheritance" via cash gifts to buy a house.  The idea was that he would get enough to buy a place in the city he lived in and she would get the family home free and clear, which seemed fair because the family home is worth significantly more than he received.  They both supposedly agreed to early and less vs. later and more.  These cash gifts took place long enough ago that they fall outside the lookback period, while the trust didn't get set up until 2-3 years ago.  At this point, the reality of LTC cost has hit and it appears that the parent will likely burn through all of their cash/savings before it's all said and done (physically doing okay, but needs memory care, so could very well be in the nursing home for years) and will need Medicaid for LTC.  Because the trust is less than 5 years old, it will be subject to asset recovery.  So, while neither sibling is likely to receive anything from "the estate", one sibling is extra salty and has made some noise about eventually suing her brother for half of what he received from their mom to buy his house.  I can understand why she's upset and it's not fair, but it's going to likely get a whole lot uglier before it gets better.

Watch and learn, mustachians:
If you elect to give children their "inheritance" early, always give all children the same amount at the same time regardless of their need. Then you may avoid this type of kerfuffle between your children later.
This is, of course, assuming that there are no extenuating circumstances that need to be treated more carefully, such as an adult with a disability who needs more for care, or an adult with a massive substance abuse problem who can't handle having money responsibly.
My stepdad has signed over some land to my sister and her husband, and the will is written such that it comes out of their "third", but there's no knowing if he'll end up in care and end up with nothing.

It's unlikely, because he has cancer, and every time he goes into the hospital we worry that he won't come out. 

But anyway, I don't care at all.  My brother probably does, but honestly, my BIL does more for that man than anyone else (except his brothers and sisters who drive him to dr's appts), so they deserve it!

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3189 on: September 26, 2023, 11:33:55 AM »
In a situation that I really hope my parents are paying attention to, one of mom's cousins failed to get a Medicaid asset protection trust in place before needing to be admitted into long term care.  One of her children has already received "his inheritance" via cash gifts to buy a house.  The idea was that he would get enough to buy a place in the city he lived in and she would get the family home free and clear, which seemed fair because the family home is worth significantly more than he received.  They both supposedly agreed to early and less vs. later and more.  These cash gifts took place long enough ago that they fall outside the lookback period, while the trust didn't get set up until 2-3 years ago.  At this point, the reality of LTC cost has hit and it appears that the parent will likely burn through all of their cash/savings before it's all said and done (physically doing okay, but needs memory care, so could very well be in the nursing home for years) and will need Medicaid for LTC.  Because the trust is less than 5 years old, it will be subject to asset recovery.  So, while neither sibling is likely to receive anything from "the estate", one sibling is extra salty and has made some noise about eventually suing her brother for half of what he received from their mom to buy his house.  I can understand why she's upset and it's not fair, but it's going to likely get a whole lot uglier before it gets better.

Watch and learn, mustachians:
If you elect to give children their "inheritance" early, always give all children the same amount at the same time regardless of their need. Then you may avoid this type of kerfuffle between your children later.
This is, of course, assuming that there are no extenuating circumstances that need to be treated more carefully, such as an adult with a disability who needs more for care, or an adult with a massive substance abuse problem who can't handle having money responsibly.
My stepdad has signed over some land to my sister and her husband, and the will is written such that it comes out of their "third", but there's no knowing if he'll end up in care and end up with nothing.

It's unlikely, because he has cancer, and every time he goes into the hospital we worry that he won't come out. 

But anyway, I don't care at all.  My brother probably does, but honestly, my BIL does more for that man than anyone else (except his brothers and sisters who drive him to dr's appts), so they deserve it!

Wills aren't always enforced. The executor does whatever he or she wants, and can't be stopped. It is possible to sue, but even if the judgement goes in your favor the assets are still gone. The same applies in many cases where a spouse is left the use of your assets. That spouse can decide to override your wishes and even disinherit your kids in favor of the pool boy. Inheritances are never guaranteed.

Sugaree

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3190 on: September 26, 2023, 11:40:00 AM »
In a situation that I really hope my parents are paying attention to, one of mom's cousins failed to get a Medicaid asset protection trust in place before needing to be admitted into long term care.  One of her children has already received "his inheritance" via cash gifts to buy a house.  The idea was that he would get enough to buy a place in the city he lived in and she would get the family home free and clear, which seemed fair because the family home is worth significantly more than he received.  They both supposedly agreed to early and less vs. later and more.  These cash gifts took place long enough ago that they fall outside the lookback period, while the trust didn't get set up until 2-3 years ago.  At this point, the reality of LTC cost has hit and it appears that the parent will likely burn through all of their cash/savings before it's all said and done (physically doing okay, but needs memory care, so could very well be in the nursing home for years) and will need Medicaid for LTC.  Because the trust is less than 5 years old, it will be subject to asset recovery.  So, while neither sibling is likely to receive anything from "the estate", one sibling is extra salty and has made some noise about eventually suing her brother for half of what he received from their mom to buy his house.  I can understand why she's upset and it's not fair, but it's going to likely get a whole lot uglier before it gets better.

That's a tough one.  It wasn't handled optimally by mom originally. That's neither child's fault, but now there's a mess where it kind of falls on the children to come to a fair solution. 

Does DS have enough money to float medical costs for a year or two, to get mom to the end of the clawback?  Would that even work, legally?  Heck, even if the DD agreed to pay him back some of that once she got and presumably sold the house (which would eat away at the 50/50 fairness, but be better than nothing for her), that would still leave DD with something instead of nothing. 

What a mess.  And as Zamboni point out, this demonstrates the need to be do everything evenly up front.  Mom could have signed the house over to DD, with a contract that allowed mom to stay in it rent-free until death, for example.  It's one thing if it is a small amount compared to the size of the estate (e.g. a $1m estate and someone gets $20k to get them to 20% on a house and avoid PMI).  But when it is half or a significant portion of the estate, it sets up so many opportunities for problems.

I think sometimes parents forget that their estate isn't just money that will help their children.  It's also something that can dramatically affect the relationship between those children.  While she had no ill intent and everyone agreed to this situation, it is likely going to do irreparable damage to the sibling's relationship.  And had mom consulted a lawyer and spent a couple hundred dollars, she likely would have been advised against this, or advised to transfer the house to Sister now, not set up the trust immediately.  Instead, she has children who are likely going to deeply resent each other, all because of how the estate division happened.

Good questions.  I'm getting a lot of this second and third hand, so I'm not privy to intimate details and I like it that way.  My mom (who I'm getting most of my info from) seems to think that there should be enough assets other than the house to pay for a year, maybe two, depending on whether or not her cousin ends up needing higher levels of care between now and then.  I highly doubt that either child has the ability to pay for more than a month or two each.  That would be the best option for everyone, assuming that the kids can come to an agreement on who pays how much, but the phrase "blood from a turnip" comes to mind.  As far as I know, the daughter has no plans of selling the family home and wants to live there permanently.  Her moving in and paying "rent" to her mom would help with cashflow and running out the clock.  Still not truly fair, but it is what it is.  I'm not getting involved other than telling my mom how much of a shame it was that they didn't talk to an estate attorney (hint, hint) and that I could have recommended some very good ones (HUGE hint, hint). 
« Last Edit: September 26, 2023, 11:53:57 AM by Sugaree »

Zamboni

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3191 on: September 26, 2023, 03:08:33 PM »
Wills aren't always enforced. The executor does whatever he or she wants, and can't be stopped. It is possible to sue, but even if the judgement goes in your favor the assets are still gone. The same applies in many cases where a spouse is left the use of your assets. That spouse can decide to override your wishes and even disinherit your kids in favor of the pool boy. Inheritances are never guaranteed.

This is so true. I understand why so many wealthy people have an attorney as the executor rather than a family member. Better to pay the fees than have a fall out between siblings over perceptions of fairness.

My grandparents had 4 children and my grandfather wanted to make sure his kids got equal amounts. So he set it up so everyone gets 25% of particular large pot of money he had. It was all in writing, neat as a pin. Then one of the sons asked for an got 80% of the money that was in his "share" of that pot in advance. So grandfather reduced his share in the documentation, neat as a pin, in writing.

Then grandparents died, and the son who had gotten his money from the pot early lobbied another sibling, the one with the most money of her own, to just ignore grandfather's wishes and divide up the remaining money by splitting it 4 ways. So then it became 2 against 2. In the end grandfather's wishes were honored by the executor, but it was a mess, and it was not a great thing for everyone to be arguing about while riding in a minivan together on the way to grandmother's funeral.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3192 on: September 27, 2023, 08:19:15 AM »
Wills aren't always enforced. The executor does whatever he or she wants, and can't be stopped. It is possible to sue, but even if the judgement goes in your favor the assets are still gone. The same applies in many cases where a spouse is left the use of your assets. That spouse can decide to override your wishes and even disinherit your kids in favor of the pool boy. Inheritances are never guaranteed.

This is so true. I understand why so many wealthy people have an attorney as the executor rather than a family member. Better to pay the fees than have a fall out between siblings over perceptions of fairness.

My grandparents had 4 children and my grandfather wanted to make sure his kids got equal amounts. So he set it up so everyone gets 25% of particular large pot of money he had. It was all in writing, neat as a pin. Then one of the sons asked for an got 80% of the money that was in his "share" of that pot in advance. So grandfather reduced his share in the documentation, neat as a pin, in writing.

Then grandparents died, and the son who had gotten his money from the pot early lobbied another sibling, the one with the most money of her own, to just ignore grandfather's wishes and divide up the remaining money by splitting it 4 ways. So then it became 2 against 2. In the end grandfather's wishes were honored by the executor, but it was a mess, and it was not a great thing for everyone to be arguing about while riding in a minivan together on the way to grandmother's funeral.

Indeed. I used to know a family where the couple's shared assets were to be divided evenly between all the kids. When the man died after a long illness, their real estate empire (jointly owned by him and his wife, who built it up from scratch) was divided into two. Half went to his sons. The remainder was to be used to support his wife the rest of her life, after which time it would be divided among the daughters, who received nothing at the time of their father's death except some personal effects. The lady lived another decade, while her female offspring mostly struggled and her male offspring did very well because the value of their assets increased as did the ones in her care. But at the end of her life, she decided that it wasn't fair that her remaining assets had appreciated so that they were worth almost double the value of what her sons had received. (There had been a similar appreciation of the assets her sons had received, plus those heirs had received the benefit of ten years of income from those assets, but that didn't factor into the lady's calculations.) She therefore changed her will so that her remaining assets were divided evenly among the boys and girls. The result was that her boys received roughly triple what her girls did. The will allowed any of the children to buy the lady's house at a fraction of its market value, and one of the adult children made arrangements to do that, except the executor brother responded to lobbying from some of the in-laws and cancelled the sale so that the house could be sold at full market value and the proceeds divided. Really it was like something out of a novel.

sonofsven

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3193 on: September 27, 2023, 08:39:41 AM »
Wills aren't always enforced. The executor does whatever he or she wants, and can't be stopped. It is possible to sue, but even if the judgement goes in your favor the assets are still gone. The same applies in many cases where a spouse is left the use of your assets. That spouse can decide to override your wishes and even disinherit your kids in favor of the pool boy. Inheritances are never guaranteed.

This is so true. I understand why so many wealthy people have an attorney as the executor rather than a family member. Better to pay the fees than have a fall out between siblings over perceptions of fairness.

My grandparents had 4 children and my grandfather wanted to make sure his kids got equal amounts. So he set it up so everyone gets 25% of particular large pot of money he had. It was all in writing, neat as a pin. Then one of the sons asked for an got 80% of the money that was in his "share" of that pot in advance. So grandfather reduced his share in the documentation, neat as a pin, in writing.

Then grandparents died, and the son who had gotten his money from the pot early lobbied another sibling, the one with the most money of her own, to just ignore grandfather's wishes and divide up the remaining money by splitting it 4 ways. So then it became 2 against 2. In the end grandfather's wishes were honored by the executor, but it was a mess, and it was not a great thing for everyone to be arguing about while riding in a minivan together on the way to grandmother's funeral.

Indeed. I used to know a family where the couple's shared assets were to be divided evenly between all the kids. When the man died after a long illness, their real estate empire (jointly owned by him and his wife, who built it up from scratch) was divided into two. Half went to his sons. The remainder was to be used to support his wife the rest of her life, after which time it would be divided among the daughters, who received nothing at the time of their father's death except some personal effects. The lady lived another decade, while her female offspring mostly struggled and her male offspring did very well because the value of their assets increased as did the ones in her care. But at the end of her life, she decided that it wasn't fair that her remaining assets had appreciated so that they were worth almost double the value of what her sons had received. (There had been a similar appreciation of the assets her sons had received, plus those heirs had received the benefit of ten years of income from those assets, but that didn't factor into the lady's calculations.) She therefore changed her will so that her remaining assets were divided evenly among the boys and girls. The result was that her boys received roughly triple what her girls did. The will allowed any of the children to buy the lady's house at a fraction of its market value, and one of the adult children made arrangements to do that, except the executor brother responded to lobbying from some of the in-laws and cancelled the sale so that the house could be sold at full market value and the proceeds divided. Really it was like something out of a novel.

What a terrible story!
When my cousins grandma died they were interested in purchasing the long time home of the grandparents (not my grandparents).
The oldest son, who was always a jerk (he eloped at age 24 with my 16 year old aunt-that marriage lasted about five years) sold the home without giving any of the six grandkids the opportunity to buy it.
It's a very sought after location, waterfront Puget Sound. A few of the grandkids wanted to buy it together so they could all share it as a summer place, as they all spent summers there as kids.
The son had it on the market and sold almost immediately after his mother's passing.
His "reasoning" was that, since some of the grandkids were more successful than the others, there would be resentment between them.

okits

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3194 on: September 27, 2023, 08:46:44 AM »
Grim, that is appalling.

I had a coworker tell me that she grew up being told her brother would inherit everything, after all he was the boy.

She planned her life and career knowing she had only herself to rely on.  When their parents grew infirm and needed daily living assistance, coworker let her brother know it was his job to lead their parents’ care (and pay for it out of the parents’ assets).  After all, he was inheriting everything!

It probably goes without saying, I really liked that coworker.

Villanelle

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3195 on: September 27, 2023, 08:50:46 AM »
Wills aren't always enforced. The executor does whatever he or she wants, and can't be stopped. It is possible to sue, but even if the judgement goes in your favor the assets are still gone. The same applies in many cases where a spouse is left the use of your assets. That spouse can decide to override your wishes and even disinherit your kids in favor of the pool boy. Inheritances are never guaranteed.

This is so true. I understand why so many wealthy people have an attorney as the executor rather than a family member. Better to pay the fees than have a fall out between siblings over perceptions of fairness.

My grandparents had 4 children and my grandfather wanted to make sure his kids got equal amounts. So he set it up so everyone gets 25% of particular large pot of money he had. It was all in writing, neat as a pin. Then one of the sons asked for an got 80% of the money that was in his "share" of that pot in advance. So grandfather reduced his share in the documentation, neat as a pin, in writing.

Then grandparents died, and the son who had gotten his money from the pot early lobbied another sibling, the one with the most money of her own, to just ignore grandfather's wishes and divide up the remaining money by splitting it 4 ways. So then it became 2 against 2. In the end grandfather's wishes were honored by the executor, but it was a mess, and it was not a great thing for everyone to be arguing about while riding in a minivan together on the way to grandmother's funeral.

Indeed. I used to know a family where the couple's shared assets were to be divided evenly between all the kids. When the man died after a long illness, their real estate empire (jointly owned by him and his wife, who built it up from scratch) was divided into two. Half went to his sons. The remainder was to be used to support his wife the rest of her life, after which time it would be divided among the daughters, who received nothing at the time of their father's death except some personal effects. The lady lived another decade, while her female offspring mostly struggled and her male offspring did very well because the value of their assets increased as did the ones in her care. But at the end of her life, she decided that it wasn't fair that her remaining assets had appreciated so that they were worth almost double the value of what her sons had received. (There had been a similar appreciation of the assets her sons had received, plus those heirs had received the benefit of ten years of income from those assets, but that didn't factor into the lady's calculations.) She therefore changed her will so that her remaining assets were divided evenly among the boys and girls. The result was that her boys received roughly triple what her girls did. The will allowed any of the children to buy the lady's house at a fraction of its market value, and one of the adult children made arrangements to do that, except the executor brother responded to lobbying from some of the in-laws and cancelled the sale so that the house could be sold at full market value and the proceeds divided. Really it was like something out of a novel.

These stories--really most of the stories in this thread--make me sad and a smidge nervous.

Presumably, I'll be privy to 2 estate settlements in my life, my parents and DH's parents.  (I'll be somewhat on the sidelines of the latter, but as Team Villanelle Household, I'll be in the thick of it with DH.)  Maybe I'm naive, but I expect my sibling, who will be executor, to be entirely reasonable.  We may squabble over who gets the best charm on mom's charm bracelet (mom knows I want the bracelet and has made it clear that's what is to happen, but that Sister--S--gets one charm of her choice).  Or how long I have to come collect the sentimental items I want, which may be a pain, depending on where I'm living at the time.  Or even whether we accept X offer on the house or hold out for more.  That kind of thing.  But in general, I don't see us fighting over money, I trust her to be reasonable and respectful as executor, and I anticipate no issue.  But I wonder if many of the people from the stories in this thread said the same things, up until it happened.

With DH, I fully anticipate his sibling being greedy and presumptuous and even outright absconding with the figurative silverware if he can.  That estate should be a fairly small amount, and probably far less than BIL imagines/hopes.  I am guessing DH is the executor since BIL is an irresponsible mess at all times, or perhaps MIL's husband.  (As I understand it, they have kept almost entirely separate assets, and the house is only in her name and was hers before they married.  But he's a lawyer, so I can see him being executor, possibly.  Unlike my family, DH's doesn't talk about this stuff so it's just a guess.) 

DH and I have talked about it and a very likely outcome of this all is to tell BIL that everything is his except a few sentimental items, but that he then has to take on the work.  IOW, DH walks away, not only from any money, but from the tax filings and paperwork to prove death and dealing with realtors (although the house has a reverse mortgage so there may not be a sale) and anything else.  We are hopeful that if DH decides that's the best course, it will avoid some of the drama seen in this thread, but who really knows?  Even if BIL is reasonable and rational and friendly (which he has never been, on his best day), DH *may* still decide to hand everything over as BIL needs it far, far, far more than we do.  He currently lives with his mom and has no job, and no prospects, so when she dies, he will likely be a couple months from being on the streets.  So DH may just consider it his gift to BIL, and one last chance for BIL to finally get his life together.  OTOH, it's entirely possible--probable, even--that any money would end up in a fancy truck and/or a liquor store till, and in a year, BIL will again be broke.  What he really needs is an annuity of some kind, but I'm not sure MIL has enough money for an annuity (or a controlled monthly amount) that someone could live off of , even if she stipulated that was what she wanted to happen. 

Anyway, I guess my point is that while I think I have a good idea of how all the involved parties will respond, and that there are rough plans to avoid most drama, I wonder if that's not just wishful thinking. Did most of the people in these stories have good reason to believe everything would be fine, until it wasn't?  Or were these relationships already strained?   Were there signs that it would devolve into greed, even if the people involved didn't see them?  Or were these healthy, stable relationships among healthy, stable, reasonable, honest people that exploded anyway?  Were there warning signs, or was it truly a surprise to everyone that this stuff happened? 

SwordGuy

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3196 on: September 27, 2023, 09:04:42 AM »
My mother-in-law passed away last week.  One daughter and both sons will be reasonable.
My wife's sister, well, we'll see.

I'm expecting a shit show from her, but maybe she'll just take her 1/4th and call it a day.  We can hope.

sonofsven

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3197 on: September 27, 2023, 09:08:43 AM »
Wills aren't always enforced. The executor does whatever he or she wants, and can't be stopped. It is possible to sue, but even if the judgement goes in your favor the assets are still gone. The same applies in many cases where a spouse is left the use of your assets. That spouse can decide to override your wishes and even disinherit your kids in favor of the pool boy. Inheritances are never guaranteed.

This is so true. I understand why so many wealthy people have an attorney as the executor rather than a family member. Better to pay the fees than have a fall out between siblings over perceptions of fairness.

My grandparents had 4 children and my grandfather wanted to make sure his kids got equal amounts. So he set it up so everyone gets 25% of particular large pot of money he had. It was all in writing, neat as a pin. Then one of the sons asked for an got 80% of the money that was in his "share" of that pot in advance. So grandfather reduced his share in the documentation, neat as a pin, in writing.

Then grandparents died, and the son who had gotten his money from the pot early lobbied another sibling, the one with the most money of her own, to just ignore grandfather's wishes and divide up the remaining money by splitting it 4 ways. So then it became 2 against 2. In the end grandfather's wishes were honored by the executor, but it was a mess, and it was not a great thing for everyone to be arguing about while riding in a minivan together on the way to grandmother's funeral.

Indeed. I used to know a family where the couple's shared assets were to be divided evenly between all the kids. When the man died after a long illness, their real estate empire (jointly owned by him and his wife, who built it up from scratch) was divided into two. Half went to his sons. The remainder was to be used to support his wife the rest of her life, after which time it would be divided among the daughters, who received nothing at the time of their father's death except some personal effects. The lady lived another decade, while her female offspring mostly struggled and her male offspring did very well because the value of their assets increased as did the ones in her care. But at the end of her life, she decided that it wasn't fair that her remaining assets had appreciated so that they were worth almost double the value of what her sons had received. (There had been a similar appreciation of the assets her sons had received, plus those heirs had received the benefit of ten years of income from those assets, but that didn't factor into the lady's calculations.) She therefore changed her will so that her remaining assets were divided evenly among the boys and girls. The result was that her boys received roughly triple what her girls did. The will allowed any of the children to buy the lady's house at a fraction of its market value, and one of the adult children made arrangements to do that, except the executor brother responded to lobbying from some of the in-laws and cancelled the sale so that the house could be sold at full market value and the proceeds divided. Really it was like something out of a novel.

These stories--really most of the stories in this thread--make me sad and a smidge nervous.

Presumably, I'll be privy to 2 estate settlements in my life, my parents and DH's parents.  (I'll be somewhat on the sidelines of the latter, but as Team Villanelle Household, I'll be in the thick of it with DH.)  Maybe I'm naive, but I expect my sibling, who will be executor, to be entirely reasonable.  We may squabble over who gets the best charm on mom's charm bracelet (mom knows I want the bracelet and has made it clear that's what is to happen, but that Sister--S--gets one charm of her choice).  Or how long I have to come collect the sentimental items I want, which may be a pain, depending on where I'm living at the time.  Or even whether we accept X offer on the house or hold out for more.  That kind of thing.  But in general, I don't see us fighting over money, I trust her to be reasonable and respectful as executor, and I anticipate no issue.  But I wonder if many of the people from the stories in this thread said the same things, up until it happened.

With DH, I fully anticipate his sibling being greedy and presumptuous and even outright absconding with the figurative silverware if he can.  That estate should be a fairly small amount, and probably far less than BIL imagines/hopes.  I am guessing DH is the executor since BIL is an irresponsible mess at all times, or perhaps MIL's husband.  (As I understand it, they have kept almost entirely separate assets, and the house is only in her name and was hers before they married.  But he's a lawyer, so I can see him being executor, possibly.  Unlike my family, DH's doesn't talk about this stuff so it's just a guess.) 

DH and I have talked about it and a very likely outcome of this all is to tell BIL that everything is his except a few sentimental items, but that he then has to take on the work.  IOW, DH walks away, not only from any money, but from the tax filings and paperwork to prove death and dealing with realtors (although the house has a reverse mortgage so there may not be a sale) and anything else.  We are hopeful that if DH decides that's the best course, it will avoid some of the drama seen in this thread, but who really knows?  Even if BIL is reasonable and rational and friendly (which he has never been, on his best day), DH *may* still decide to hand everything over as BIL needs it far, far, far more than we do.  He currently lives with his mom and has no job, and no prospects, so when she dies, he will likely be a couple months from being on the streets.  So DH may just consider it his gift to BIL, and one last chance for BIL to finally get his life together.  OTOH, it's entirely possible--probable, even--that any money would end up in a fancy truck and/or a liquor store till, and in a year, BIL will again be broke.  What he really needs is an annuity of some kind, but I'm not sure MIL has enough money for an annuity (or a controlled monthly amount) that someone could live off of , even if she stipulated that was what she wanted to happen. 

Anyway, I guess my point is that while I think I have a good idea of how all the involved parties will respond, and that there are rough plans to avoid most drama, I wonder if that's not just wishful thinking. Did most of the people in these stories have good reason to believe everything would be fine, until it wasn't?  Or were these relationships already strained?   Were there signs that it would devolve into greed, even if the people involved didn't see them?  Or were these healthy, stable relationships among healthy, stable, reasonable, honest people that exploded anyway?  Were there warning signs, or was it truly a surprise to everyone that this stuff happened?

Really, good questions.
My partner has an evangelical maga mom and she legitimately wonders if she'll be cut out of the will. She might. Right now her mother's not speaking to her because mother got called out for her misbehavior.
There's some LDS on that branch, and one of her distant cousins was cut out for "lack of Christianity".
I've reassured my partner that we'll be fine if that happens, but it still bothers her, the idea of being excluded and treated unfairly, since she's been treated unfairly in other situations throughout her family life.

mm1970

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3198 on: September 27, 2023, 10:44:46 AM »
Wills aren't always enforced. The executor does whatever he or she wants, and can't be stopped. It is possible to sue, but even if the judgement goes in your favor the assets are still gone. The same applies in many cases where a spouse is left the use of your assets. That spouse can decide to override your wishes and even disinherit your kids in favor of the pool boy. Inheritances are never guaranteed.

This is so true. I understand why so many wealthy people have an attorney as the executor rather than a family member. Better to pay the fees than have a fall out between siblings over perceptions of fairness.

My grandparents had 4 children and my grandfather wanted to make sure his kids got equal amounts. So he set it up so everyone gets 25% of particular large pot of money he had. It was all in writing, neat as a pin. Then one of the sons asked for an got 80% of the money that was in his "share" of that pot in advance. So grandfather reduced his share in the documentation, neat as a pin, in writing.

Then grandparents died, and the son who had gotten his money from the pot early lobbied another sibling, the one with the most money of her own, to just ignore grandfather's wishes and divide up the remaining money by splitting it 4 ways. So then it became 2 against 2. In the end grandfather's wishes were honored by the executor, but it was a mess, and it was not a great thing for everyone to be arguing about while riding in a minivan together on the way to grandmother's funeral.

Indeed. I used to know a family where the couple's shared assets were to be divided evenly between all the kids. When the man died after a long illness, their real estate empire (jointly owned by him and his wife, who built it up from scratch) was divided into two. Half went to his sons. The remainder was to be used to support his wife the rest of her life, after which time it would be divided among the daughters, who received nothing at the time of their father's death except some personal effects. The lady lived another decade, while her female offspring mostly struggled and her male offspring did very well because the value of their assets increased as did the ones in her care. But at the end of her life, she decided that it wasn't fair that her remaining assets had appreciated so that they were worth almost double the value of what her sons had received. (There had been a similar appreciation of the assets her sons had received, plus those heirs had received the benefit of ten years of income from those assets, but that didn't factor into the lady's calculations.) She therefore changed her will so that her remaining assets were divided evenly among the boys and girls. The result was that her boys received roughly triple what her girls did. The will allowed any of the children to buy the lady's house at a fraction of its market value, and one of the adult children made arrangements to do that, except the executor brother responded to lobbying from some of the in-laws and cancelled the sale so that the house could be sold at full market value and the proceeds divided. Really it was like something out of a novel.
This sounds a little familiar.  In "it's the way things were back then", my grandfather's will was written to give the "big" trust to 2 of the boys (the 3rd boy had gotten his inheritance already as he'd been in business with his dad, so he'd gotten part of the business).  The small trust - basically the house (about 1/3 to 1/2 the size of the big one) - would go to 3 daughters + a widow of another son.  I guess that the daughters were supposed to be taken care of by their husbands?  Anyway, the trust was written so that his 2nd wife can live on the interest and principal, and the kids get nothing until she dies.  She lived to be 98 - 18 years past when my grandfather died (I know my story is in the early pages here).

I mean, by the time she died, my mother and an aunt had already passed, so I ended up with 1/12 of the smaller trust directly (about $10k).

Tass

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3199 on: September 27, 2023, 01:07:21 PM »
In past generations of my family, usable farmland was given to male heirs and unfarmable land was given to female heirs. A few generations later, the market for their crop of choice dried up, and the unfarmable land was developed into desirable lakeview property. My mom calls this a story of sexism coming back to bite you in the end.

I'm the oldest of eight siblings and the executor of my parents' will... hopefully that will be irrelevant for many years and drama-free once relevant.