Author Topic: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.  (Read 1259131 times)

Zamboni

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3050 on: November 08, 2022, 07:37:20 PM »
For anyone who remembers the saga of the Destroyer of the Last Will and Testament (DotLWaT!), here is a brief recap and update. For those who don't know or can't remember, DotLWaT actually did go to the home of deceased and destroyed the Will within 24 of the death. This was more than a year ago.

Here is a short recap, leaving out all of the juicy drama about the funeral planning and related insanity:

1. Mama Zamboni died after a brief illness that involved hospitalization. She was old enough to have adult children--Mr. Zamboni and his siblings--but she was not that old and she didn't have cancer or anything like that, so the death was fairly sudden and unexpected.

1. DotLWaT went straight from the hospital to Mama Zamboni's home right after her death and found the Will that evening. She informed a few people including Mr. Zamboni and his sister that she found it. DotLWaT stated that she didn't like who is named as heir in it.

2. DotLWaT threatened to burn the Will. Everyone assumed she was joking.

3. DotLWaT then changed her story to "there was no Will" and insisted that she be named Executor of the Estate. The sister of the deceased (Mr. Zamboni's Aunt), whom everyone including DotLWaT seemed to agree was actually named the Executor by the deceased, said "fine, you got it, I don't want to be involved."

4. Mama Zamboni lived alone and unfortunately she was a Hoarder to an extent that she could have been featured on the TV show. Out of obligation, Mr. Zamboni offered to either physically help with her belongings or pay to hire help to clean out her home. DotLWaT got angry at the suggestion. She said she wanted to go through it all herself and she didn't want Mr. Zamboni or his sister involved. Mama Zamboni was a retired public school teacher of modest means who had immigrated to the US without a dime, so it's not like there were priceless heirlooms involved, but DotLWaT apparently thought there is some sort of buried treasure in the home I guess? Dunno. I can't even imagine what she thought she would find.

5. Mr. Zamboni's sister and Mr. Zamboni agreed that DotLWaT could clear out the home herself if that is what she wanted to do, but they balked at DotLWaT's stated plan to move into the home. They agreed that it should be listed for sale and the proceeds split among the heirs via the probate process. DotLWaT begrudgingly agreed to list it for sale after she cleared it out.

So here we are, more than a year after DotLWaT successfully petitioned the court to be appointment Executor. Has Mama Zamboni's home been listed for sale? Nope. No surprises there. Mr. Zamboni's sister has been trying to keep tabs on it, but Mr. Zamboni has ceased all communication with DotLWaT to preserve his own sanity.

Meanwhile, another family member has recently died. Although DotLWaT had openly and repeatedly professed hatred of this person, once he became gravely ill you know DotLWaT began hovering. He seemed to trust her and have no clue what mean and horrible things she has said about him over the years. You may have successfully guessed that she went to the hospital immediately upon learning he died. She said she wanted to see his body and then she told Mr. Zamboni's sister that her plan was going to go from there into his home to "look for important papers." Seriously, WTF. I guess she thought she'd get there before anyone else and the hospital would fork over all the stuff from his locker to her. Then she'd go into his place in a repeat of what she had done when Mama Zamboni died.

But in a twist she wasn't expecting, the hospital staff wouldn't even let her in to see him because she isn't "next of kin." She must have asked about his stuff, because she told Mr. Zamboni's sister that hospital staff had informed her his possessions all go to his wife because he was MARRIED! Which she didn't even know! To be fair, while we knew he had a very serious lady friend, who was often there when we visited and who seemed to be taking care of him for the past couple of years, we also didn't know they had officially married. So his wife inherited everything, much to DotLWaT's annoyance . . . I certainly hope she stayed out of his home and didn't get in there somehow to rifle through his stuff under the auspices of "helping" his wife, but I wouldn't put anything past DotLWaT at this point.

Ladychips

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3051 on: November 08, 2022, 08:06:08 PM »
@Zamboni will you remind me? What is the relationship between Mr. Zamboni and the Destroyer? Are they siblings?

RWTL

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3052 on: November 09, 2022, 03:06:50 AM »
For anyone who remembers the saga of the Destroyer of the Last Will and Testament (DotLWaT!), here is a brief recap and update. For those who don't know or can't remember, DotLWaT actually did go to the home of deceased and destroyed the Will within 24 of the death. This was more than a year ago.

Here is a short recap, leaving out all of the juicy drama about the funeral planning and related insanity:

1. Mama Zamboni died after a brief illness that involved hospitalization. She was old enough to have adult children--Mr. Zamboni and his siblings--but she was not that old and she didn't have cancer or anything like that, so the death was fairly sudden and unexpected.

1. DotLWaT went straight from the hospital to Mama Zamboni's home right after her death and found the Will that evening. She informed a few people including Mr. Zamboni and his sister that she found it. DotLWaT stated that she didn't like who is named as heir in it.

2. DotLWaT threatened to burn the Will. Everyone assumed she was joking.

3. DotLWaT then changed her story to "there was no Will" and insisted that she be named Executor of the Estate. The sister of the deceased (Mr. Zamboni's Aunt), whom everyone including DotLWaT seemed to agree was actually named the Executor by the deceased, said "fine, you got it, I don't want to be involved."

4. Mama Zamboni lived alone and unfortunately she was a Hoarder to an extent that she could have been featured on the TV show. Out of obligation, Mr. Zamboni offered to either physically help with her belongings or pay to hire help to clean out her home. DotLWaT got angry at the suggestion. She said she wanted to go through it all herself and she didn't want Mr. Zamboni or his sister involved. Mama Zamboni was a retired public school teacher of modest means who had immigrated to the US without a dime, so it's not like there were priceless heirlooms involved, but DotLWaT apparently thought there is some sort of buried treasure in the home I guess? Dunno. I can't even imagine what she thought she would find.

5. Mr. Zamboni's sister and Mr. Zamboni agreed that DotLWaT could clear out the home herself if that is what she wanted to do, but they balked at DotLWaT's stated plan to move into the home. They agreed that it should be listed for sale and the proceeds split among the heirs via the probate process. DotLWaT begrudgingly agreed to list it for sale after she cleared it out.

So here we are, more than a year after DotLWaT successfully petitioned the court to be appointment Executor. Has Mama Zamboni's home been listed for sale? Nope. No surprises there. Mr. Zamboni's sister has been trying to keep tabs on it, but Mr. Zamboni has ceased all communication with DotLWaT to preserve his own sanity.

Meanwhile, another family member has recently died. Although DotLWaT had openly and repeatedly professed hatred of this person, once he became gravely ill you know DotLWaT began hovering. He seemed to trust her and have no clue what mean and horrible things she has said about him over the years. You may have successfully guessed that she went to the hospital immediately upon learning he died. She said she wanted to see his body and then she told Mr. Zamboni's sister that her plan was going to go from there into his home to "look for important papers." Seriously, WTF. I guess she thought she'd get there before anyone else and the hospital would fork over all the stuff from his locker to her. Then she'd go into his place in a repeat of what she had done when Mama Zamboni died.

But in a twist she wasn't expecting, the hospital staff wouldn't even let her in to see him because she isn't "next of kin." She must have asked about his stuff, because she told Mr. Zamboni's sister that hospital staff had informed her his possessions all go to his wife because he was MARRIED! Which she didn't even know! To be fair, while we knew he had a very serious lady friend, who was often there when we visited and who seemed to be taking care of him for the past couple of years, we also didn't know they had officially married. So his wife inherited everything, much to DotLWaT's annoyance . . . I certainly hope she stayed out of his home and didn't get in there somehow to rifle through his stuff under the auspices of "helping" his wife, but I wouldn't put anything past DotLWaT at this point.

That's crazy.

Hula Hoop

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3053 on: November 09, 2022, 03:17:30 AM »
@Zamboni that is nuts.  Glad that DotLWaT didn't manage to get her hands on the second relative's stuff.  Good for the hospital staff for standing up for his wife.  Sounds like they may have had some experience with people like her.

saguaro

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3054 on: November 11, 2022, 09:15:54 AM »
But you don't understand, Grim! They're special! They're better than the designated victim, so the bad things aren't supposed to happen to them!

(Please read this with all of the sarcasm the Internet has to offer.)

Indeed, I was raised in a family that had exactly that kind of value system. I've also seen it in the occasional workplace, church, charity, social club, and school. That's why I can laugh about it.

On a more serious note, you've identified a very common phenomenon in groups of people where there's one designated person who is destructive, predatory, abusive, or otherwise toxic. People develop strategies to avoid being abused themselves, and to gain status within the group. Part of what a flying monkey thinks he or she is doing is buying immunity from the abuse. When that tacit contract isn't upheld by the abuser, it comes as a surprise because the flying monkey truly believes there's a quid pro quo.

I've made a study of groups of toxic or dysfunctional people. They're like a messed-up Imperial court, with a toxic Emperor in the middle of it and a bunch of courtiers, profiteers, and other people jockeying for position or simply trying to get by and dodge the worst of the abuse. They end up unintentionally creating the environment the toxic person needs to survive, and perpetuating the toxicity by filling the vacuum left when the family alcoholic sobers up or the abusive boss leaves.

I've identified seven different ways in which individual people unintentionally contribute to a toxic family or environment. The process showed me how to identify toxic groups of people from a distance, without getting involved, and how to permanently leave a toxic group to do some things differently. I published the book a few years ago on Amazon.
I didn't realize you knew my sister!

Based on her bullshit when I was co-exec of my parent's estate, I have kept contact with her to the bare minimum. All my other siblings have developed amnesia resumed cordial relations with her and I am the odd man out. Apparently they can't see she's simply a snake who has recoiled and is awaiting her next opportunity to strike. It won't be me, nor will I pick up the pieces for her next victim. Maybe I need to read your book.

This describes my sister too (executor/estate shenanigans courtesy of her detailed earlier in this thread) and our flying monkey cousin who is showing herself to be just as toxic.

Oh, and the few family members who want to see us all reconcile now, who of course expect me and my other sister to "develop amnesia" according to their own notions of "family".

I would be interested in the book as well.

« Last Edit: November 11, 2022, 09:17:46 AM by saguaro »

Zamboni

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3055 on: November 11, 2022, 03:59:52 PM »
Me too, what is the title of this book?

BNgarden

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3056 on: November 11, 2022, 04:43:06 PM »
Sorry, no inheritance drama.  But, link below is a short piece on narcissistic conspiracy I came across (cause a woman is being stalked / harassed here in my city by a politically connected group of awful people, and is trying to shine light on their behaviours and connections):
https://thoughtcatalog.com/shahida-arabi/2018/03/the-narcissistic-conspiracy-scapegoating-smear-campaigns-and-black-sheep-how-narcissistic-groups-bully-their-chosen-victims/

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3057 on: November 14, 2022, 10:03:25 AM »
Me too, what is the title of this book?

Hi! Check your inbox; I sent a link.

frugalecon

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3058 on: November 16, 2022, 07:17:18 PM »
Me too, what is the title of this book?

Hi! Check your inbox; I sent a link.

GS, you helped me some years ago in a different thread, when I was dealing with a toxic vampire type of person. I really appreciated your honest feedback about what you sawÖsounds like you have really learned the hard way from situations.

lilkidjesus

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3059 on: December 06, 2022, 01:22:16 AM »
With my family, the biggest controversary has been guilt trips over NOT taking a relative's stuff.

When my Grandma died, my parents asked us to come out to help do some trailer runs to the thrift store. During the visit, my mom asked me to go into the house to find anything I wanted. I walked through every room, remembering her house and things I did there as a kid. I told my mom that I didn't feel right taking anything from the house (and it was obvious that seemingly everyone in my family felt the same way because it was untouched for weeks after she died).

Eventually, I discovered the one and only thing I ended up taking -- a stack of unfinished crossword puzzles in her den, each page half done in her handwriting. For the last six years, a few times per month I'll hang out with her and help her with the puzzles she started and didn't finish.

Two books left.

Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3060 on: December 06, 2022, 04:57:29 AM »
With my family, the biggest controversary has been guilt trips over NOT taking a relative's stuff.

When my Grandma died, my parents asked us to come out to help do some trailer runs to the thrift store. During the visit, my mom asked me to go into the house to find anything I wanted. I walked through every room, remembering her house and things I did there as a kid. I told my mom that I didn't feel right taking anything from the house (and it was obvious that seemingly everyone in my family felt the same way because it was untouched for weeks after she died).

Eventually, I discovered the one and only thing I ended up taking -- a stack of unfinished crossword puzzles in her den, each page half done in her handwriting. For the last six years, a few times per month I'll hang out with her and help her with the puzzles she started and didn't finish.

Two books left.
Awww, that is so sweet!

Capsu78

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3061 on: December 22, 2022, 11:57:21 AM »
A nice movie I just watched on Amazon Prime "The Bridge at Harimaya" has a touching storyline dealing with after life issues as well as other ones.  As a bonus, it is filmed in a beautiful part of rural Japan.

https://www.amazon.com/Harimaya-Bridge-Ben-Guillory/dp/B005FDWERE

AdrianC

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3062 on: December 30, 2022, 05:35:16 AM »
Potential for some drama here.

My dad just passed away. He had a will, written in 2009. My brother is executor. This is in the UK. Iím on a different continent.  I was able to be there with him for his last 3 weeks (itís good to be FI).

The will is simple. Mostly everything is 50/50 between my brother and me. There are several areas that could turn dramatic, the main one is the family business. Dad started the business in the early 80ís. Brother worked for it then was made partner with dad. Dad retired about 10 years ago and brother took over, expanding the business. He has worked very hard at it.

It seems I will inherit 25% of this business. I donít want it. Brother ran it, itís his business. We all assumed that this had been taken care of in the will and brother would get dadís shares, or they died with him. Apparently not. I've said I will sign it over to him, but we have to be sure about the tax consequences.

ATtiny85

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3063 on: December 30, 2022, 06:26:39 AM »
Potential for some drama here.

My dad just passed away. He had a will, written in 2009. My brother is executor. This is in the UK. Iím on a different continent.  I was able to be there with him for his last 3 weeks (itís good to be FI).

The will is simple. Mostly everything is 50/50 between my brother and me. There are several areas that could turn dramatic, the main one is the family business. Dad started the business in the early 80ís. Brother worked for it then was made partner with dad. Dad retired about 10 years ago and brother took over, expanding the business. He has worked very hard at it.

It seems I will inherit 25% of this business. I donít want it. Brother ran it, itís his business. We all assumed that this had been taken care of in the will and brother would get dadís shares, or they died with him. Apparently not. I've said I will sign it over to him, but we have to be sure about the tax consequences.

Sorry about your loss.

Good luck, sounds like positive intent in place, just need to figure out paperwork that makes it work. Hope it goes smooth.



Zamboni

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3064 on: December 30, 2022, 06:49:39 AM »
A nice movie I just watched on Amazon Prime "The Bridge at Harimaya" has a touching storyline dealing with after life issues as well as other ones.  As a bonus, it is filmed in a beautiful part of rural Japan.

https://www.amazon.com/Harimaya-Bridge-Ben-Guillory/dp/B005FDWERE

I'll have to check this out, thank you for the recommendation!

Potential for some drama here.

My dad just passed away. He had a will, written in 2009. My brother is executor. This is in the UK. Iím on a different continent.  I was able to be there with him for his last 3 weeks (itís good to be FI).

The will is simple. Mostly everything is 50/50 between my brother and me. There are several areas that could turn dramatic, the main one is the family business. Dad started the business in the early 80ís. Brother worked for it then was made partner with dad. Dad retired about 10 years ago and brother took over, expanding the business. He has worked very hard at it.

It seems I will inherit 25% of this business. I donít want it. Brother ran it, itís his business. We all assumed that this had been taken care of in the will and brother would get dadís shares, or they died with him. Apparently not. I've said I will sign it over to him, but we have to be sure about the tax consequences.

Hopefully the paperwork on that won't be too complicated. When I got divorced I was able to just able to remove myself from a family business just by saying I wanted out. There were some forms to sign, but I don't remember anything at all about taxes, but I am in the US.

former player

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3065 on: December 30, 2022, 07:44:51 AM »
Potential for some drama here.

My dad just passed away. He had a will, written in 2009. My brother is executor. This is in the UK. Iím on a different continent.  I was able to be there with him for his last 3 weeks (itís good to be FI).

The will is simple. Mostly everything is 50/50 between my brother and me. There are several areas that could turn dramatic, the main one is the family business. Dad started the business in the early 80ís. Brother worked for it then was made partner with dad. Dad retired about 10 years ago and brother took over, expanding the business. He has worked very hard at it.

It seems I will inherit 25% of this business. I donít want it. Brother ran it, itís his business. We all assumed that this had been taken care of in the will and brother would get dadís shares, or they died with him. Apparently not. I've said I will sign it over to him, but we have to be sure about the tax consequences.
I'm sorry for your loss.

Regarding the business there are two possible routes to go down.  One is that you accept ownership of your share of the business and transfer it to your brother.  The other is that you disclaim that part of your inheritance altogether.  This might be difficult, depending on the wording of the will (if it is mentioned separately then it is reasonably simple, if it is part of everything (eg a statement such as "half each of everything I own") I'm not sure if you can do this, you might need to take advice.

You do need advice on the tax implications if your father's estate is worth more than £325k (£500k if he left his house to his children or grandchildren), because a gift specifically mentioned in a will can be tax free (with the tax paid out of the remainder of the estate) and the tax payable on it from the rest of the estate can change the balance of what each person gets quite significantly.

The gov.uk site is a good starting point but won't answer all the questions.  You and your brother need to work out the consequences before acting, and that may need specialist advice.

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/inheritance-tax-manual/ihtm35161
https://www.gov.uk/inheritance-tax

AdrianC

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3066 on: December 31, 2022, 05:06:19 PM »
Thanks, all. Has been rough.

Regarding the business there are two possible routes to go down.  One is that you accept ownership of your share of the business and transfer it to your brother.  The other is that you disclaim that part of your inheritance altogether.  This might be difficult, depending on the wording of the will (if it is mentioned separately then it is reasonably simple, if it is part of everything (eg a statement such as "half each of everything I own") I'm not sure if you can do this, you might need to take advice.

We will be taking advice. Just hope it's the right advice. I have not seen the will and don't know the wording. Brother is under the impression that the will is for his eyes only. Not sure if that's a UK legal thing. I'll mention it.

Quote
You do need advice on the tax implications if your father's estate is worth more than £325k (£500k if he left his house to his children or grandchildren), because a gift specifically mentioned in a will can be tax free (with the tax paid out of the remainder of the estate) and the tax payable on it from the rest of the estate can change the balance of what each person gets quite significantly.

The gov.uk site is a good starting point but won't answer all the questions.  You and your brother need to work out the consequences before acting, and that may need specialist advice.

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/inheritance-tax-manual/ihtm35161
https://www.gov.uk/inheritance-tax

Thanks for the links. I've been reading. But definitely we need to get a solicitor and tax accountant involved. It would be best for all if brother can just hand it off to a professional. It is not his area of expertise at all, or mine. We're both engineers...

Villanelle

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3067 on: December 31, 2022, 09:18:16 PM »
If your brother is difficult, you can always make him buy the shares from you.  Your father's intent seems clear--he wanted you to have half of everything he owned, including his 50% of the business.  While it's very nice of you to just hand that off to your brother, this doesn't seem like an oversight by your dad.  So if your brother wants to be shady, hide the will from you, etc., you can always take what was rightfully left to you and then sell him your 25% of the business for fair market value, or a slight family discount. 

former player

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3068 on: January 01, 2023, 02:25:55 AM »
Your brother is right, strictly speaking, that wills are private to the executors.  But this is only until probate is granted, when the will becomes public and anyone can get a copy from the public records office.  So it's pretty pointless that he is keeping it from you now when you will be able to see it as soon as probate is granted.

Getting a valuation for the business will have to be done for tax reasons before the grant of probate.  Any inheritance tax due also needs to be paid before grant of probate.

So the order of operations should be: first, the executors establish the value of the estate.  Second, you understand the implications for inheritance tax, both how much is payable and which parts (if any) of the estate are to be inherited free of tax and which parts of the estate the tax will be payable.  Third, you find out whether the way the will is drafted allows you to disclaim inheritance of your part of the business and who gets the value of that part of the business under the will if you do disclaim (depending on how the will is drafted this might not be your brother).  Fourth, you find out the tax consequences of disclaiming that part of the business.  Fifth: if you can and still want to disclaim your part of the business you will need to do so before grant of probate.  Sixth, the executors pay inheritance tax and get the grant of probate.  Seventh, the executors transfer ownership of the estate to the inheritors.

You certainly shouldn't give up your share of anything under the will unless you've seen the original copy that will get probate and seen advice on whether and how you can give up your share of the business and what the consequences for tax are.  It might be less complicated for you to inherit your part of the business and then pass it over to your brother, and this is probably the only way to go if your brother is not forthcoming about the contents of the will, the value of the business and the tax implications.  The only slight downside of inheriting and then giving it to your brother is that if you die within seven years of the gift there may be a second lot of inheritance tax to pay on the value of your gift.  Hopefully the chances of that are low and if it worries your brother he can take out life insurance on you for seven years to cover the potential tax liability.

The worst thing that can happen, as demonstrated by this thread, is that families fall out over an inheritance, and because all this complication happens when people are grieving it's easier for that to happen.  I hope you navigate a soccessful way through it all with your family.


AdrianC

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3069 on: January 03, 2023, 07:17:29 AM »
The worst thing that can happen, as demonstrated by this thread, is that families fall out over an inheritance, and because all this complication happens when people are grieving it's easier for that to happen.  I hope you navigate a successful way through it all with your family.

Thanks.

I did come across this: Deed of Variation
https://www.gov.uk/alter-a-will-after-a-death

"You can change a personís will after their death, as long as any beneficiaries left worse off by the changes agree."

Not sure if this is an option for us. There are some other complications. In one of his more lucid moments, dad asked me to make gifts from his estate to a few charities and two people he had left out. It doesn't amount to a lot (40k) and brother and I decided it would be easier for us to just make the gifts ourselves after the monies are disbursed. Probably better to do through a Deed of Variation.

Regarding the business, I believe it has 100% exemption from estate tax.

former player

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3070 on: January 03, 2023, 08:32:40 AM »
The worst thing that can happen, as demonstrated by this thread, is that families fall out over an inheritance, and because all this complication happens when people are grieving it's easier for that to happen.  I hope you navigate a successful way through it all with your family.

Thanks.

I did come across this: Deed of Variation
https://www.gov.uk/alter-a-will-after-a-death

"You can change a personís will after their death, as long as any beneficiaries left worse off by the changes agree."

Not sure if this is an option for us. There are some other complications. In one of his more lucid moments, dad asked me to make gifts from his estate to a few charities and two people he had left out. It doesn't amount to a lot (40k) and brother and I decided it would be easier for us to just make the gifts ourselves after the monies are disbursed. Probably better to do through a Deed of Variation.

Regarding the business, I believe it has 100% exemption from estate tax.
It sounds as though you are getting on top of this and having productive discussions with yoru brother, good for you.
If you can give the charitable gifts from the estate then they will reduce the amount in the estate which is subject to inheritance tax by the amount of the charitable gifts, so that would be a good reason to give them through a Deed of Variation, and if you are doing that it is easy to add the personal gifts in as well, with two advantages - the recipients will be able to see that the gift is coming directly from your father, and if you or your brother die leaving a taxable estate in the next 7 years the gifts don't have to be counted back into your estates.

And with that I think you've reached the limits of my knowledge - and if 40k from the estate "is not a lot" there should be plenty of financial scope for getting expert paid advice!

talltexan

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3071 on: January 03, 2023, 08:45:04 AM »
It sounds like you are sincere in wanting to recognize the value your brother has built in this business and minimize the trouble for each of you. If you do want to go down the route of selling shares, I wonder if there's a way to have brother pay you a fraction of revenue/profits over time as a way to buy you out where he won't need to borrow against it or be cash constrained.

stealthwealth

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3072 on: January 21, 2023, 09:21:02 PM »
My FIL invested in an obviously topping out stock at the height of the pandemic stock market, went mostly all in, and has ridden it to a parabolic 90 plus percent loss on something like $3M.  My wife and I have built our own fireable stash, greatly helped by the pandemic, and I'm still working but not out of need but more to be extra secure with an unknown terminal inflation picture.  We're pretty much FI in other words.  But his plan had been to split his wealth between my wife and her siblings after he dies in the future.  We tried warning him numerous times that he was in a bad investment and that he needed a good exit strategy or diversification, and he violated his own maximum 20pct loss rule.  But he's held it.  Fortunately he kept a few hundred thousand in a savings account so he isn't destitute, but he still seems to think it's going to shoot back up, which I doubt will happen.

Turtle

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3073 on: January 24, 2023, 08:13:55 AM »
My FIL invested in an obviously topping out stock at the height of the pandemic stock market, went mostly all in, and has ridden it to a parabolic 90 plus percent loss on something like $3M.  My wife and I have built our own fireable stash, greatly helped by the pandemic, and I'm still working but not out of need but more to be extra secure with an unknown terminal inflation picture.  We're pretty much FI in other words.  But his plan had been to split his wealth between my wife and her siblings after he dies in the future.  We tried warning him numerous times that he was in a bad investment and that he needed a good exit strategy or diversification, and he violated his own maximum 20pct loss rule.  But he's held it.  Fortunately he kept a few hundred thousand in a savings account so he isn't destitute, but he still seems to think it's going to shoot back up, which I doubt will happen.

Ouch! I'm sorry.  Even watching from the sidelines, that's painful

frugalecon

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3074 on: January 29, 2023, 07:55:34 AM »
My FIL invested in an obviously topping out stock at the height of the pandemic stock market, went mostly all in, and has ridden it to a parabolic 90 plus percent loss on something like $3M.  My wife and I have built our own fireable stash, greatly helped by the pandemic, and I'm still working but not out of need but more to be extra secure with an unknown terminal inflation picture.  We're pretty much FI in other words.  But his plan had been to split his wealth between my wife and her siblings after he dies in the future.  We tried warning him numerous times that he was in a bad investment and that he needed a good exit strategy or diversification, and he violated his own maximum 20pct loss rule.  But he's held it.  Fortunately he kept a few hundred thousand in a savings account so he isn't destitute, but he still seems to think it's going to shoot back up, which I doubt will happen.

That is really unfortunate, that so much of the wealth your FIL probably worked hard for has vaporized. Fortunately you were not going to need an inheritance to be FI. Are the other heirs in a similar situation as you, or is this going to create hardship for one or more of them?

stealthwealth

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3075 on: January 29, 2023, 09:18:02 PM »
No one is bad off, but we're the only ones I'm aware of that are fi.  I'm more worried about minimizing losses than taking big risks for high potential gains.  I prefer going after series of 10 percent gains iow.