Author Topic: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."  (Read 10274 times)

Metalcat

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #100 on: January 03, 2024, 11:49:35 AM »
You can't view it through a practical lens. It's marketing, calculated product decisions, and a sense of being in the "in group."

Realistically, the iPhone has always been about being a premium, curated experience. That is to say, Apple knows best, and they'll give you the best experience as long as you cede control to them.

Android has always been about choice and control. You'll have to figure out the right experience for yourself, including deciding how much to spend to get the hardware you want. But ultimately, the messaging experience is relatively messy on Android (not that it's tidy on iPhone, because in addition to iMessage, there's still options to use Snapchat, Messenger, Tiktok, Instagram, WhatsApp, etc.,) particularly because SMS/MMS is inconsistent between phones, and of course especially with iPhone group messages.

iMessage gives "all iPhone user" group chats their best experience, and then massively downgrade the experience if just one person is included in the chat that doesn't have an iPhone.

Overall this gives these teens this impression that as long as they stick to the premium, conforming experience and be a good little iPhone user, they are worthy of love and affection from their peers. But if they dare to be different, they should be ostracized.

THANK YOU!

This is a basic explanation that makes perfect sense to me. I appreciate you explaining this very simple mechanism by which apple is creating a powerful in-group motivator.

If being an android user drags down the experience of other iPhone users, this creates a very powerful moritcayir for people to have opinions about other people's phone choices. That's the part I couldn't understand, and now I do.

farmecologist

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #101 on: January 03, 2024, 11:50:53 AM »
You can't view it through a practical lens. It's marketing, calculated product decisions, and a sense of being in the "in group."

Realistically, the iPhone has always been about being a premium, curated experience. That is to say, Apple knows best, and they'll give you the best experience as long as you cede control to them.

Android has always been about choice and control. You'll have to figure out the right experience for yourself, including deciding how much to spend to get the hardware you want. But ultimately, the messaging experience is relatively messy on Android (not that it's tidy on iPhone, because in addition to iMessage, there's still options to use Snapchat, Messenger, Tiktok, Instagram, WhatsApp, etc.,) particularly because SMS/MMS is inconsistent between phones, and of course especially with iPhone group messages.

iMessage gives "all iPhone user" group chats their best experience, and then massively downgrade the experience if just one person is included in the chat that doesn't have an iPhone.

Overall this gives these teens this impression that as long as they stick to the premium, conforming experience and be a good little iPhone user, they are worthy of love and affection from their peers. But if they dare to be different, they should be ostracized.

I take it you are an.....android user...lol.


FrugalShrew

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #102 on: January 03, 2024, 11:51:30 AM »
iMessage gives "all iPhone user" group chats their best experience, and then massively downgrade the experience if just one person is included in the chat that doesn't have an iPhone.

This is it right here.

I learned the hard way that if an iPhone user merely labels the group for a group chat that Android users will not be able to receive the group's messages. It took awhile to figure out why I wasn't getting that group's chats.

Interestingly, the annoyance from the iPhone users seemed to flow towards Android--rather than towards Apple who IMO are the ones creating the problem to make it unpleasant to live outside their ecosystem.

Funnily enough, even though it makes me feel a bit awkward to be downgrading the group chat experience for everyone else, it also makes me want to NEVER get an iPhone again. Because that type of punitive control feels really toxic.

Psychstache

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #103 on: January 03, 2024, 11:52:10 AM »
iMessage gives "all iPhone user" group chats their best experience, and then massively downgrade the experience if just one person is included in the chat that doesn't have an iPhone.

This is it right here.

Exactly and kids (and some adults) are afraid of being in the outgroup and subject to ridicule and bullying due to a green bubble and broken chat features.

neo von retorch

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #104 on: January 03, 2024, 12:12:47 PM »
I take it you are an.....android user...lol.

I'm poor, OK?! More seriously, iPhone doesn't let you choose your own web browser (not really), and I vastly prefer using Firefox for Android with Ublock Origin (extensions/add-ons are available on a smartphone if... you control it.) That and my concussion has left me needing phones with at least 120hz refresh rates. The absolute cheapest iPhone with 120Hz is the 15 Pro which is currently $1000. (My OnePlus 9 Pro was $370.)

jinga nation

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #105 on: January 03, 2024, 05:25:45 PM »
iMessage gives "all iPhone user" group chats their best experience, and then massively downgrade the experience if just one person is included in the chat that doesn't have an iPhone.

This is it right here.

The iMessages are blue bubbles, non-iOS folks are green bubbles. Then there's the whole encrpytion/RCS implementation, etc etc that can lead into debates and arguments.

The solution, in my circle of family and friends, all over the globe, is to use WhatsApp. Which uses the open-source Signal protocol for end to end encryption (E2EE).

I have an iPhone 8+. Many folks I know have newer fancier fondleslabs from Apple and Samsung.

I take it you are an.....android user...lol.

I'm poor, OK?! More seriously, iPhone doesn't let you choose your own web browser (not really), and I vastly prefer using Firefox for Android with Ublock Origin (extensions/add-ons are available on a smartphone if... you control it.) That and my concussion has left me needing phones with at least 120hz refresh rates. The absolute cheapest iPhone with 120Hz is the 15 Pro which is currently $1000. (My OnePlus 9 Pro was $370.)

My iPhone 8+ has had Firefox as the default browser for several years. That blocks the ads on websites.

neo von retorch

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #106 on: January 03, 2024, 06:16:06 PM »
My iPhone 8+ has had Firefox as the default browser for several years. That blocks the ads on websites.

BLOCKS blocks? This is what I read - first that add-ons are not available, plus this:

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/enhanced-tracking-protection-firefox-ios
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Firefox for iOS has a built-in Enhanced Tracking Protection feature which reduces targeted ads and helps stop advertisers from tracking your browsing.

Additionally, Firefox on iOS still uses the native rendering engine. That's maybe less important, but overall I prefer healthier competition between browser engines (beyond just Blink and Webkit.)

jinga nation

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #107 on: January 03, 2024, 06:35:09 PM »
My iPhone 8+ has had Firefox as the default browser for several years. That blocks the ads on websites.

BLOCKS blocks? This is what I read - first that add-ons are not available, plus this:

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/enhanced-tracking-protection-firefox-ios
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Firefox for iOS has a built-in Enhanced Tracking Protection feature which reduces targeted ads and helps stop advertisers from tracking your browsing.

Additionally, Firefox on iOS still uses the native rendering engine. That's maybe less important, but overall I prefer healthier competition between browser engines (beyond just Blink and Webkit.)

Dumb stupid me not realizing my devices sit behind a pi-hole. And tailscale VPN that reaches back to pi-hole when I'm not on home wifi. No wonder a load of crap is blocked (technically blackholes), ads and trackers specifically.

I hoped that FF on iOS would have extensions/add-ons, but nope.

And yes, browser engine competition is lacking.

jinga nation

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #108 on: January 03, 2024, 06:41:40 PM »
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Personally, I can’t help seeing the FIRE movement as advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority. But, when I hear early retirees championing how it allows them to care for sick relatives or young children, or to just develop hobbies and passion projects, it makes me think how sick the world of work is. Back when we first spoke to Shen five years ago, she told us she’d stumbled across the FIRE movement after having stress-induced panic attacks at work, and had recently witnessed a colleague being stretchered out of the office after collapsing at their desk. Is it any wonder that people are drawn to financial communities of this kind, when full-time work seems increasingly broken?

Visited family over the holidays. BIL, who's worked in Fortune 50s/FAANGs for 23+ years, said he's planning on quitting in four years. His oldest will be done with college and the younger ones done with high school. He wants to work on cars and gardening, and fixing up the home. No consulting, no PT, nothing else. He's got enough socked away for retirement. My sis is planning on continuing working 40H/week until they eventually can her in an annual layoff. Then she'll retire permanently. A decade ago they were adamant adherents of corporations but COVID19 opened their eyes to how ruthless corporations can be, and their views 180'd. How the turn tables.

eyesonthehorizon

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #109 on: January 03, 2024, 09:14:14 PM »
I’ve never had enough iPhones in my social circle to notice these differences (or my own iPhone was just too old.) That does explain a lot, & TikTok memetic bashing would solidify the rest.

I read “imagine having an android” & it had the ring of a meme. Lo, search that in quotes, and it is indeed a TikTok meme. (For the uninitiated, in short form video social media, offering one’s own take on a cultural catchphrase is a major pastime & brand of shared humor, especially via borrowing and lipsynching audio from a popular source video.)

However, though most humor based in prejudice is on some level carrying a grain of authentic group sentiment, this often means the actual judgement among those in the know is less than heartfelt. Some on the fringes (especially older folks, honestly) may be bandwagoning with expectations, but it is likely a lot of the youthful core expects the recipient to be in on the joke, or at least not to take it seriously.

I miss when iMessage used to unify a bunch of other services into one place. How the mighty have fallen.

crocheted_stache

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #110 on: January 04, 2024, 01:12:24 AM »
My 20-something (recent grad) coworker remains thoroughly scandalized that I have an Android, even though he's perfectly content not owning a car. I get the impression he's loading up his 401(k), too, so it's not a case of him being off track. If he loves his iPhone, good for him.

Next time he fidgets about it, I'm definitely poking back, though. Why does my choice of phone bother him so much?

I'm fascinated by this, I keep hearing stories of IRL people who get bent out of shape by others not using iPhones. Where is this absolute nonsense coming from?

To be fair, he's needling me about it in good humor, and he's witnessed a couple times where my phone just stalled for no apparent reason. No question he's an adherent, but there's also a decent case for, "Why on earth do you still put up with that thing?"

clarkfan1979

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #111 on: January 04, 2024, 08:01:15 AM »
iMessage gives "all iPhone user" group chats their best experience, and then massively downgrade the experience if just one person is included in the chat that doesn't have an iPhone.

This is it right here.

This is what happened to me. Both times, I was on a group chat with a group of friends when I got resistance from not buying an I-phone.

Kris

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #112 on: January 04, 2024, 09:28:59 AM »
iMessage gives "all iPhone user" group chats their best experience, and then massively downgrade the experience if just one person is included in the chat that doesn't have an iPhone.

This is it right here.

This is what happened to me. Both times, I was on a group chat with a group of friends when I got resistance from not buying an I-phone.

I’m in a group chat with one person who doesn’t have an iPhone. It’s irritating because the chats won’t show up on my other Apple devices because of it (and my phone lives in my office when I’m home, which means I often miss communications until many hours later). But I’m irritated at Apple, not the person who doesn’t have an iPhone.

2sk22

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #113 on: January 15, 2024, 10:43:54 AM »
It's interesting how the attitude of the writer of the Vice article seems to work at all levels of wealth.

Last year, I was involved with a group of entrepreneurs who do some angel investing. A very good friend of mine who is in the group invited me to join them as he has a pretty good inkling of our net worth. I quit the group after a few months - early stage investing felt like flushing money down the drain.

When I talked to the entrepreneurs, I found that they all had the mindset that the only way to get to financial independence was to have a big exit in the form of an IPO or buyout from a big company). They could not even fathom that thirty years of steady index fund investing would get you to the same level. I distinctly got the impression that some of the entrepreneurs felt sorry for me even though I likely had more money than them. :-)

There is a pervasive belief in the tech world that that hitting an IPO/acquisition jackpot is the only way to make good money.

ixtap

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #114 on: January 15, 2024, 11:35:35 AM »
It's interesting how the attitude of the writer of the Vice article seems to work at all levels of wealth.

Last year, I was involved with a group of entrepreneurs who do some angel investing. A very good friend of mine who is in the group invited me to join them as he has a pretty good inkling of our net worth. I quit the group after a few months - early stage investing felt like flushing money down the drain.

When I talked to the entrepreneurs, I found that they all had the mindset that the only way to get to financial independence was to have a big exit in the form of an IPO or buyout from a big company). They could not even fathom that thirty years of steady index fund investing would get you to the same level. I distinctly got the impression that some of the entrepreneurs felt sorry for me even though I likely had more money than them. :-)

There is a pervasive belief in the tech world that that hitting an IPO/acquisition jackpot is the only way to make good money.

We know a couple of guys like this. One has already lost a start up (convinced the original investors owe him millions) and a house flip (seems to take more responsibility, but the story doesn't quite add up).

The other has gone big into real estate by draining his  401k with the special COVID rules and leveraging to the hilt. It has paid off, as he happens to be in one of the hottest markets in the country, but he seems to keep cashing out to increase the leverage, all while complaining about money.

farmecologist

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #115 on: January 16, 2024, 10:12:57 AM »
I take it you are an.....android user...lol.

I'm poor, OK?! More seriously, iPhone doesn't let you choose your own web browser (not really), and I vastly prefer using Firefox for Android with Ublock Origin (extensions/add-ons are available on a smartphone if... you control it.) That and my concussion has left me needing phones with at least 120hz refresh rates. The absolute cheapest iPhone with 120Hz is the 15 Pro which is currently $1000. (My OnePlus 9 Pro was $370.)

My iPhone 8+ has had Firefox as the default browser for several years. That blocks the ads on websites.

Interesting.  I do very little web browsing on my phone...I prefer anything with a keyboard for that. 

FireLane

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #116 on: January 16, 2024, 04:51:02 PM »
It's interesting how the attitude of the writer of the Vice article seems to work at all levels of wealth.

Last year, I was involved with a group of entrepreneurs who do some angel investing. A very good friend of mine who is in the group invited me to join them as he has a pretty good inkling of our net worth. I quit the group after a few months - early stage investing felt like flushing money down the drain.

When I talked to the entrepreneurs, I found that they all had the mindset that the only way to get to financial independence was to have a big exit in the form of an IPO or buyout from a big company). They could not even fathom that thirty years of steady index fund investing would get you to the same level. I distinctly got the impression that some of the entrepreneurs felt sorry for me even though I likely had more money than them. :-)

There is a pervasive belief in the tech world that that hitting an IPO/acquisition jackpot is the only way to make good money.

That's so strange and interesting. You'd think high-income earners and entrepreneurs would easily be able to see the logic of early retirement. I mean, "being good at money" is part of their identity, right?

But I guess it's the same psychological problem that afflicts every income level: most people are bad at living below their means.

If you're spending almost everything you make, you'll feel like you're never able to save enough to maintain your lifestyle, and the only path to retirement that you can imagine is through some kind of jackpot payoff. That's just as true whether you're making $30,000 a year or $3 million.

ixtap

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #117 on: January 16, 2024, 05:39:53 PM »
It's interesting how the attitude of the writer of the Vice article seems to work at all levels of wealth.

Last year, I was involved with a group of entrepreneurs who do some angel investing. A very good friend of mine who is in the group invited me to join them as he has a pretty good inkling of our net worth. I quit the group after a few months - early stage investing felt like flushing money down the drain.

When I talked to the entrepreneurs, I found that they all had the mindset that the only way to get to financial independence was to have a big exit in the form of an IPO or buyout from a big company). They could not even fathom that thirty years of steady index fund investing would get you to the same level. I distinctly got the impression that some of the entrepreneurs felt sorry for me even though I likely had more money than them. :-)

There is a pervasive belief in the tech world that that hitting an IPO/acquisition jackpot is the only way to make good money.

That's so strange and interesting. You'd think high-income earners and entrepreneurs would easily be able to see the logic of early retirement. I mean, "being good at money" is part of their identity, right?

But I guess it's the same psychological problem that afflicts every income level: most people are bad at living below their means.

If you're spending almost everything you make, you'll feel like you're never able to save enough to maintain your lifestyle, and the only path to retirement that you can imagine is through some kind of jackpot payoff. That's just as true whether you're making $30,000 a year or $3 million.

I don't know about the angel investors, but I am convinced that at least some of DH's colleagues think they are behind on savings because they see the 12x income rules and don't dig. Even the ones who talk about holding RSUs to a certain price point (not my thing but they clearly aren't spending them, and that can be half of income some years!) seem shocked that he has decided to go half time.

2sk22

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #118 on: January 17, 2024, 03:34:21 AM »
That's so strange and interesting. You'd think high-income earners and entrepreneurs would easily be able to see the logic of early retirement. I mean, "being good at money" is part of their identity, right?

But I guess it's the same psychological problem that afflicts every income level: most people are bad at living below their means.

If you're spending almost everything you make, you'll feel like you're never able to save enough to maintain your lifestyle, and the only path to retirement that you can imagine is through some kind of jackpot payoff. That's just as true whether you're making $30,000 a year or $3 million.

I agree - this is a pervasive belief at all levels of the economic ladder. A lot of people just can't believe that saving and investing works in the long run.

As a math person, I have had a hypothesis that this is because of the shape of exponential curves. Our brains are just not wired to handle them! Initially when you start investing, nothing seems to be happening with the needle barely budging. You don't see the effect of compounding for at least 10 years, if not longer. In our case, it was about 18 years before our wealth really started to grow.

AMandM

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #119 on: January 17, 2024, 05:23:46 AM »

As a math person, I have had a hypothesis that this is because of the shape of exponential curves.

As another math person, I agree with you, but I think it goes beyond that. Lots of mathematical structures, like exponential curves, are non-intuitive. You have to be really familiar with them for them to be useful in your thinking, but most people were taught math very badly, don't really understand it, and don't think mathematically in everyday life. So it's not just that they can't perform, say, a Bayesian analysis of the lottery; it doesn't even occur to them that the lottery can be analyzed. Heck, it doesn't occur to them to add up their spending on cigarettes or lunches out.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #120 on: January 17, 2024, 09:25:02 AM »

As a math person, I have had a hypothesis that this is because of the shape of exponential curves.

As another math person, I agree with you, but I think it goes beyond that. Lots of mathematical structures, like exponential curves, are non-intuitive. You have to be really familiar with them for them to be useful in your thinking, but most people were taught math very badly, don't really understand it, and don't think mathematically in everyday life. So it's not just that they can't perform, say, a Bayesian analysis of the lottery; it doesn't even occur to them that the lottery can be analyzed. Heck, it doesn't occur to them to add up their spending on cigarettes or lunches out.

Remember that half of all people are lower than average in terms of math, and for the average person the intuitive part of math stops at fractions, decimals, and percentages. They can learn more advanced math, but it won't stick unless it's used. Most adults don't use it in everyday life unless it's for work.

As a society I think we're seeing the long-term consequence of out-sourcing. The only people who routinely use higher math outside work are DIY-ers, quilters, cooks or bakers who have to scale a recipe, or anyone who does things for themselves instead of hiring someone else. People who lack skills, such as baking, are literally incapable of throwing a birthday party with cake unless they pay someone else to bake and decorate that cake. It is *very* expensive to be ignorant or incompetent.

Askel

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #121 on: January 17, 2024, 10:10:10 AM »

Remember that half of all people are lower than average in terms of math,

I guess we know which half you're in.   :D 


TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #122 on: January 17, 2024, 04:13:19 PM »

Remember that half of all people are lower than average in terms of math,

I guess we know which half you're in.   :D

I'll phrase it a bit differently because my first statement was excessively generous and optimistic. There's also more than one definition of "average".

Competency testing is based on the assumption that performance of people in large numbers will be distributed based on a standard-normal Gaussian or "bell curve" distribution wherein there is a center point or mean such that 50% of the population falls below it, and 50% falls above it. For "IQ testing" this performance level within an age cohort is arbitrarily labeled "100" or "average". That's the definition I am using.

In practice, the distribution of real people's math capability tends to be fat-tailed toward both ends of the curve due to a few super-performers at the upper end but far more lower-performers at the lower end of the spectrum due to people with severe developmental delay, head injuries, hearing or vision problems, language barriers, etc.

This isn't just my seat of the pants assessment. Here's a US Department of Education summary from 2020 describing the math capabilities of American adults. It included people not capable of taking the test. On a scale of 0 to 5, 62.8% tested into level 2 or below, meaning that they could handle percentages and fractions reasonably well, but not problems that required more analysis such as probability calculations or comparison of exponential functions.

https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2020/2020025.pdf

I'd consider a person scoring lower than a 3 to be very vulnerable to bad debt related decisions, susceptible to exploitation or scams, and not good at evaluating risks or rewards related to investments.

AMandM

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #123 on: January 18, 2024, 08:08:38 AM »
for the average person the intuitive part of math stops at fractions, decimals, and percentages. They can learn more advanced math, but it won't stick unless it's used. Most adults don't use it in everyday life unless it's for work.
I think this is an overly optimistic view of the average person, as evidenced by the DoE study you linked to. I know a successful lawyer, so highly educated compared to the average, who hired a tutor because she can't help her 4th grader with his math homework.
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As a society I think we're seeing the long-term consequence of out-sourcing. The only people who routinely use higher math outside work are DIY-ers, quilters, cooks or bakers who have to scale a recipe, or anyone who does things for themselves instead of hiring someone else. People who lack skills, such as baking, are literally incapable of throwing a birthday party with cake unless they pay someone else to bake and decorate that cake. It is *very* expensive to be ignorant or incompetent.
Agree 110% ;-)  I charge that lawyer $50/hour.

And it gets worse as people do more and more tasks online, or with convenience aids like meal kits and individually-portioned foods.

theninthwall

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #124 on: January 19, 2024, 01:10:47 PM »
So I went back and found the original Facebook post featuring the article to read the comments. I was not disappointed...

"There are plenty of people that retired young. They are called rich people."

"Why does vice think that exceptions are the rule? A very small substrata of people can retire young. How about an article that's practical?"

"Unless you are a trust fund baby the chances of going back to work are high…"

"Wokies escaping reality"

"The hilarity of these stories is painful. So these losers live ultra frugally, save just enough to continue to live ultra fugally, and then pretend to retire.
Who allows this nonsense to go to print? "

"They won’t be smiling when the cash runs out. Oh to be a 76 year dishwasher at Red Robbin’s…"



FireLane

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #125 on: January 20, 2024, 09:23:33 AM »
It's funny when people in the same comment thread scoff at FIRE for totally opposite reasons.

Are we rich trust-fund babies who've never worked a day in our lives? Or are we loser wokies who'll run out of money and end up eating cat food and living in a cardboard box when we're old? Make up your minds!

ChpBstrd

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #126 on: January 21, 2024, 07:40:38 AM »
This sentence really stuck out to me.
Quote
"So these losers live ultra frugally, save just enough to continue to live ultra fugally, and then pretend to retire."
To this person, it's not an actual retirement if you are living "ultra frugally" the way "losers" do. All these FIRE'd people are faking it, not because they are working, but because they aren't buying certain things. I can envision the 3 empty bedrooms, leased luxury SUV, and golf club membership card in this person's possession, as well as their drive to get promoted beyond their level of competency and struggle with 70 hour weeks until they are in their 70s. It's the ultimate "tell me about your values" sentence, lecturing the people doing it about how it cannot be done. And all this is accomplished in a mere 20 words, the way our best novelists can pack 3 levels of meaning into a brief descriptive sentence. 

F. Scott Fitzgerald wrote "At 18 our convictions are hills from which we look; at 45 they are caves in which we hide." This advice may be helpful to guess the above author's age.

Gremlin

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #127 on: January 29, 2024, 05:08:16 PM »
It's funny when people in the same comment thread scoff at FIRE for totally opposite reasons.

Are we rich trust-fund babies who've never worked a day in our lives? Or are we loser wokies who'll run out of money and end up eating cat food and living in a cardboard box when we're old? Make up your minds!
Why not both?

Why can't someone aspire to be a loser wokie, trust-fund baby who's never worked a day in their life and who'll run out of money and end up eating cat food and living in a cardboard box?

You can't tell me to make up my mind - FIRE is about setting your own ambitions, even if they don't align to society's norms.

;-p

Metalcat

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #128 on: January 29, 2024, 05:34:23 PM »
It's funny when people in the same comment thread scoff at FIRE for totally opposite reasons.

Are we rich trust-fund babies who've never worked a day in our lives? Or are we loser wokies who'll run out of money and end up eating cat food and living in a cardboard box when we're old? Make up your minds!
Why not both?

Why can't someone aspire to be a loser wokie, trust-fund baby who's never worked a day in their life and who'll run out of money and end up eating cat food and living in a cardboard box?

You can't tell me to make up my mind - FIRE is about setting your own ambitions, even if they don't align to society's norms.

;-p

Oh! So you've met my ex.

Cawl

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Re: "Advocating for the obscene hoarding of wealth for a tiny minority."
« Reply #129 on: February 08, 2024, 04:29:17 AM »
It's Vice. You're supposed to "CONSUME PRODUCT" and be thankful for the ability to consume product. Otherwise you aren't living your life to it's fullest.

It is a mindset problem.