Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.

[FIPurpose]

Take it to the grammer police thread!  Back to inheritance drama please!  :-)

I'm sorry. I'm done. Moving on.

[fredbear]

...
I can't imagine phoning someone who was going through an estate so that I could see when I was going to get my share.

Well, you may want to prep yourself if you are ever to be a trustee or an executor.  I got emails wanting me to anticipate the trust so as to back a once-in-a-lifetime deal wherein strangers would fund their future life, and if I didn't hurry up and do it their subsequent eternal poverty and misery were my fault; emails that they were obstructed and just could not get through the grief process until they got all the trust held for them and their pain and sorrow were all on me for now; emails about the roof (leaking, in the desert) and the wiring (sparking); emails about how long and hurtful the process was.  I got no emails saying, "I realize that not forwarding you the bills for a year exposed the trust to collections and lawsuits," though I did get emails saying, "But you should still pay me for the time I spent sitting on them."  And none saying, "Fire the attorney before I write him again asking him to analyze the latest of my dingbat life plans, and all the other trust recipients will need to be paying (again) $350 per hour for his fabulously detailed responses to me."  That, I had to figure out on my own. 

You may think you have achieved the pinnacle (the nadir, might be more accurate) of calcined cynicism, but you are pollyanna compared to an estate attorney or a CPA to large families.   Before the process I had thought it took a special talent to raise more than 2 productive, affable children into agreeable adulthood.  Now I think it's a miracle.   

[nouveauRiche]

...
I can't imagine phoning someone who was going through an estate so that I could see when I was going to get my share.

Well, you may want to prep yourself if you are ever to be a trustee or an executor.  I got emails wanting me to anticipate the trust so as to back a once-in-a-lifetime deal wherein strangers would fund their future life, and if I didn't hurry up and do it their subsequent eternal poverty and misery were my fault; emails that they were obstructed and just could not get through the grief process until they got all the trust held for them and their pain and sorrow were all on me for now; emails about the roof (leaking, in the desert) and the wiring (sparking); emails about how long and hurtful the process was.  I got no emails saying, "I realize that not forwarding you the bills for a year exposed the trust to collections and lawsuits," though I did get emails saying, "But you should still pay me for the time I spent sitting on them."  And none saying, "Fire the attorney before I write him again asking him to analyze the latest of my dingbat life plans, and all the other trust recipients will need to be paying (again) $350 per hour for his fabulously detailed responses to me."  That, I had to figure out on my own. 

You may think you have achieved the pinnacle (the nadir, might be more accurate) of calcined cynicism, but you are pollyanna compared to an estate attorney or a CPA to large families.   Before the process I had thought it took a special talent to raise more than 2 productive, affable children into agreeable adulthood.  Now I think it's a miracle.

Wow.  People are jerks. 

[Maenad]

You know how everyone always complains about the ne'er-do-well siblings getting all the help, more of the inheritance, etc.? Well, DH found out from his mom yesterday that his own ne'er-do-well brother has been disinherited. MIL doesn't like her taxes going to people who take advantage of the system, and has decided to be consistent in her beliefs with her own money.

I doubt I'll be zombifying this thread in 20 years to give an update (she's in her 60s and is in good health), but I'm sure it will be... interesting if she doesn't change her mind before then.

[iris lily]

...
I can't imagine phoning someone who was going through an estate so that I could see when I was going to get my share.

Well, you may want to prep yourself if you are ever to be a trustee or an executor.  I got emails wanting me to anticipate the trust so as to back a once-in-a-lifetime deal wherein strangers would fund their future life, and if I didn't hurry up and do it their subsequent eternal poverty and misery were my fault; emails that they were obstructed and just could not get through the grief process until they got all the trust held for them and their pain and sorrow were all on me for now; emails about the roof (leaking, in the desert) and the wiring (sparking); emails about how long and hurtful the process was.  I got no emails saying, "I realize that not forwarding you the bills for a year exposed the trust to collections and lawsuits," though I did get emails saying, "But you should still pay me for the time I spent sitting on them."  And none saying, "Fire the attorney before I write him again asking him to analyze the latest of my dingbat life plans, and all the other trust recipients will need to be paying (again) $350 per hour for his fabulously detailed responses to me."  That, I had to figure out on my own. 

You may think you have achieved the pinnacle (the nadir, might be more accurate) of calcined cynicism, but you are pollyanna compared to an estate attorney or a CPA to large families.   Before the process I had thought it took a special talent to raise more than 2 productive, affable children into agreeable adulthood.  Now I think it's a miracle.

You, sir, are a prince.

[talltexan]

I only wish I could share inheritance anecdotes that generate the sensation my pluralization decisions seem to create. :-)

[Goldielocks]

When researching the family tree this week, I came across the obit for my DH's grandfather.   Stirred up old questions.

Background -- DH and his Aunt (and aunt's kids) are the only surviving relatives of Grandpa.  DH was 30 when grandpa died.   For the last 10 years, since DH turned 20, Grandpa lived in a different city and DH would call a couple of times and go visit once a year.  In the last 2 years, I found out that DH was leaving phone messages, but no returned calls... DH knew he had trouble with that thing, so did not worry that grandpa did not call back.

Here is the part that gets me.   When Grandpa died, Aunt did not call DH to let him know.   I mean, she only had one... ONE person to contact, and could not be bothered?!   We found out about it later.  (No funeral), and I was frankly surprised that she put in the obit in the paper (named DH too, but just did not call).

Why on earth wouldn't someone call (a single) family member(s) to inform them of a death? 

Note...There might have been money, but chances are it was all put into joint accounts with Aunt before he died, and that's fine.

[talltexan]

Agreed. You'd think Aunt would check the answering machine as part of gathering up grandfather's things to begin disposition of them. Make sure there's not someone leaving a message saying, "We have this check for you of $18,000, but we need an address to send it" at least.

[MrMoogle]

Here is the part that gets me.   When Grandpa died, Aunt did not call DH to let him know.   I mean, she only had one... ONE person to contact, and could not be bothered?!   We found out about it later.  (No funeral), and I was frankly surprised that she put in the obit in the paper (named DH too, but just did not call).

Yeah, this does not compute to me.  My grandpa recently died, and both he and grandma came from big families, but a lot of my mom's generation had moved away, at least somewhat. 

He passed at 1pm.  I found out at 5pm, since I'm not easily reachable, I had a voicemail from 3pm from my mom.  We drove up the next day, it's 6-7 hours, so we got there at 3pm or so.  By that time, my grandma had a full fridge of homemade food that family, neighbors, church members, friends, had made and brought over.  While I was there, every hour or two, the doorbell would ring with more food.  The obit didn't go out until 5 days after he passed, but everyone knew.

It was great, my grandma ALWAYS cooks from scratch, so it took a huge load off her.  My mom has 6 siblings, plus grandkids, who all pretty much were there for at least a week, all eating, and there was still plenty of food when I left.  I think we went to a pizza place one day.

At the funeral, again, everyone brought food for after the burial.  The hall was packed, and there was so much leftover food.

I don't know how, but everyone knew.  It's not like they used twitter or facebook or something like that.  It was all phone calls and texts, and it spread like wildfire.

[BlueHouse]

Here is the part that gets me.   When Grandpa died, Aunt did not call DH to let him know.   I mean, she only had one... ONE person to contact, and could not be bothered?!   We found out about it later.  (No funeral), and I was frankly surprised that she put in the obit in the paper (named DH too, but just did not call).

Not sure about your situation, but sometimes it can be hard to actually say the words that someone is gone.  I know when I had a loved one die (unexpectedly), I knew I had a responsibility to let people know, but I had a really really hard time phoning people who were almost strangers to me but were close to my loved one .  If there wasn't a funeral already scheduled, I probably wouldn't have done it for the people I wasn't close with.

[AMandM]

Not sure about your situation, but sometimes it can be hard to actually say the words that someone is gone.  I know when I had a loved one die (unexpectedly), I knew I had a responsibility to let people know, but I had a really really hard time phoning people who were almost strangers to me but were close to my loved one .  If there wasn't a funeral already scheduled, I probably wouldn't have done it for the people I wasn't close with.

Miss Manners says that this is a task to delegate to the first person who says, "I'm so sorry. Please let me know if I can help you in any way."

I'm sorry for your loss.

[fredbear]

...

You, sir, are a prince.

Pretty much of a bastard, actually, with occasional attempts to rise to normal human decency.  And unfortunately, a good deal more of a bastard after the process than before.  I think the real lesson here is that helicopter parents need the skull at the banquet, the sword depending by a horsehair from the ceiling.  They desperately need to know they will die.  And the money will run out.  And when they do and it does, the children, now 45 or 50 or 55 years old, will be wholly incompetent at all normal life tasks.  The father died, and left a substantial trust.  The mother died, and left a much smaller part of a shared trust.  The father's trust was gone when the mother's part that I helped administer came available.  It's gone now too.  No one told those parents, or maybe no one they would listen to told them, that the better part of love is manifest in helping your kids become independent.  On the fundamental level these learned money is obtained by whining and guilt ploys and once obtained, dissipates quickly and mysteriously and is replaced with more.  Now they must find a replacement supplier.  But with the parents gone, there is no one left alive who will care about these people and provide for them on the level they were led to expect.  Their behavior was bad, but their loss was greater than normal; the death of your last parent, no matter how old and sturdy and normal you are, brings a queasy realization that the last bulwark has melted away.   If you have well-tried confidence in your own ability, the loss is the ordinary grief humanity is loaded with.  In a case like this, the parents had urged and fostered an abnormal bond, as well as economic dependency, so their offspring's grief and their (right) fear about how they were left were very great. 

They were acting as they had been cultivated to act.  I could understand that, but it could not influence my administration, and, though I hope it didn't show, it irritated me. 

[AMandM]

If you have well-tried confidence in your own ability, the loss is the ordinary grief humanity is loaded with.  In a case like this, the parents had urged and fostered an abnormal bond, as well as economic dependency, so their offspring's grief and their (right) fear about how they were left were very great. 

They were acting as they had been cultivated to act.

I think this might be the saddest thing I have read in this whole thread.

But salutary. So thanks, I guess?

[talltexan]

My MIL and I (both only children) were talking about some of these end-of-life matters over the weekend, as we're approaching the fifth anniversary of many milestones associated with her mother's death. It seems like when you have four or more children, there's pretty-much guaranteed to be a drama-loving/moocher/problem child in the group.

But my MIL was quick to point out that being the only child to bear the burden was also difficult in different ways (and that was WITH an incredibly supportive spouse). So my guess is 2-3 siblings is the best. But there are a healthy number of stories here that have problems there, so maybe I'll retreat to "entitled people just suck".

[partgypsy]

My parents are divorced but both still alive. four kids, 2 which are independent, 2 which are not. Nothing to inherit on my Dad's side. My Mom for the moment has some assets to hopefully keep her afloat until she dies. No wills, no life insurance, etc. She let me know that on her bank accounts, she filled out a form that specifies it is to be split 4 ways when she dies (1/4 to each kid). Hopefully that is sufficient?  That's about the extent of her financial planning. However, my mother has made my oldest brother wholly dependent on her (codependent relationship). He lives with her and she financially supports him since 1996. I really don't know what he will do when she dies. I guess live on whatever he inherits from her when she dies, and then become homeless? He is an alcoholic and master manipulator, and I would prefer not to live in the same town as him. Sister is not quite as bad, but she has a spotty work history and often quits without lining up anything, so is always on the edge. She's just happy because she found out when she went to the bank with Mom to help her fill out the paperwork, she had an old work IRA at the bank she didn't know about. So she cashed it immediately. 

fixed wording

[TheGrimSqueaker]

...

You, sir, are a prince.

Pretty much of a bastard, actually, with occasional attempts to rise to normal human decency.

As a slightly lazy version of evil incarnate, I think I want to drink with you.

[mm1970]

My parents are divorced but both still alive. four kids, 2 which are independent, 2 which are not. Nothing to inherit on my Dad's side. My Mom for the moment has some assets to hopefully keep her afloat until she dies. No wills, no life insurance, etc. She let me know that on her bank accounts, she filled out a form that specifies it is to be split 4 ways when she dies (1/4 to each kid). Hopefully that is sufficient?  That's about the extent of her financial planning. However, my mother has made my oldest, wholly dependent on her (codependent relationship). He lives with her and she financially supports him since 1996. I really don't know what he will do when she dies. I guess live on whatever he inherits, and then become homeless? He is an alcoholic and master manipulator, and I would prefer not to live in the same town as him. Sister is not quite as bad, but she has a spotty work history and often quits without lining up anything, so is always on the edge. She's just happy because she found out when she went to the bank with Mom to help her fill out the paperwork, she had an old work IRA at the bank she didn't know about. So she cashed it immediately.

This is sad.  My neighbor was telling me about her family this weekend.  3 siblings, and the oldest is very bad with money.  Such that their family (husband, wife, 2 kids) have lost 4 homes to foreclosure (including a beach condo).  For some reason the eldest thinks that she deserves everything from each of her (divorced) parents.  They just lost house #4 and will be moving in with mom.  2 teenaged boys too?  That's going to go well.  Mom doesn't have a will either.  I guess the silver lining is that the other two siblings live far far away.

[MrMoogle]

She let me know that on her bank accounts, she filled out a form that specifies it is to be split 4 ways when she dies (1/4 to each kid). Hopefully that is sufficient? 

Beneficiaries at financial institutions usually override wills anyway.  Of course if the will says one thing and the beneficiary list says another, you can sue each other until neither of you has anything.  I actually don't have a will, just beneficiaries listed. 

[BlueHouse]

Miss Manners says that this is a task to delegate to the first person who says, "I'm so sorry. Please let me know if I can help you in any way."

I'm sorry for your loss.

I wish I had done this.  Thank you!

[markbike528CBX]

Miss Manners says that this is a task to delegate to the first person who says, "I'm so sorry. Please let me know if I can help you in any way."

I'm sorry for your loss.

I wish I had done this.  Thank you!

Great idea, now all I need is a list from Mom of whom to inform.   We've lost contact with large parts of her family.

[LadyMuMu]

We recently updated our wills and our attorney actually gave us a file folder of papers to complete in addition to the legal stuff. In this file was a sheet where we wrote down our "to be contacted" people that folks might not know to call or reach out to. It also has a list of our essential online accounts and passwords as well as a comprehensive list of all financial assets to help out our executor. We just tell our executor where the "red folder" can be found.

I know some of you have relatives who are resistant to writing any sort of will or medical directive. (I have one of those myself). I'm finding starting the conversation about who you want to be informed a gentle way to open the door again on this topic.

[Hula Hoop]

My MIL and I (both only children) were talking about some of these end-of-life matters over the weekend, as we're approaching the fifth anniversary of many milestones associated with her mother's death. It seems like when you have four or more children, there's pretty-much guaranteed to be a drama-loving/moocher/problem child in the group.

But my MIL was quick to point out that being the only child to bear the burden was also difficult in different ways (and that was WITH an incredibly supportive spouse). So my guess is 2-3 siblings is the best. But there are a healthy number of stories here that have problems there, so maybe I'll retreat to "entitled people just suck".

That's why I'm incredibly grateful for my husband's family.  When his father passed away a couple of years ago there was literally no drama between him and his other three sibllings.  The house was sold and they money divided into fourths.  It probably helped that there wasn't a lot of money there but no fighting and no moochers.

[fredbear]

As a slightly lazy version of evil incarnate, I think I want to drink with you.

I'd enjoy getting together.  But I don't drink. 

- It seemed to me witless to pour a chemical depressant onto a depressing situation.
- It was making me stupid at night while my children were young.  I decided that I could be stuporous (2 beers before a heavy meal) just as much as I wanted, once they were 18.  You don't get do-overs for those years.
-  It seemed like social chickenshittery.  Just as an experiment, ask a group of friends, "When was the last time you had a first time that was alcohol-free?"

Raw carrots and tapwater some time?  I get down to NM from time to time hunting. 

[TheGrimSqueaker]

As a slightly lazy version of evil incarnate, I think I want to drink with you.

I'd enjoy getting together.  But I don't drink. 

- It seemed to me witless to pour a chemical depressant onto a depressing situation.
- It was making me stupid at night while my children were young.  I decided that I could be stuporous (2 beers before a heavy meal) just as much as I wanted, once they were 18.  You don't get do-overs for those years.
-  It seemed like social chickenshittery.  Just as an experiment, ask a group of friends, "When was the last time you had a first time that was alcohol-free?"

Raw carrots and tapwater some time?  I get down to NM from time to time hunting.

A drink doesn't have to involve alcohol. I like to take fresh mint from my garden, pour boiling water over it, and make a nice caffeine free mint iced tea.

[elliha]

Inheritance story: My maternal grandfather died. Mom has  three sisters and three brothers so they were seven in total and my grandpa was not a frugal man and spent all of his pension and then some on clothes and such. He loved looking fancy and was very vain. His only real asset was a small house in the country side that he used to live in before but was now used as a summer house for him and the things that he owned like furniture and such. Two of my aunts still fought over almost every single piece in his house and wanted to have more less everything despite not really have any use for it. One was so angry when one of my uncles wanted to get grandpa's old but still quite complete every day dinner set with plates and such. He had divorced a couple years earlier and only got the back up dishes and therefore only had about 5 chipped and mismatched dishes and wanted to get those plates for a legitimate reason and they had virtually no sell value either. It took all of the other siblings backing my uncle up to get them to back down despite one of them was only going to give the dishes to one of their children to use in the caravan. So damn cheap to not want your own brother who really needed the plates to have them when you wanted to give them away to someone else. It is your brother!

In the end the other siblings more or less backed down or only stepped in and fought for the things they really wanted and just let the two greedy ones fight over the rest. My mom got a desk and some small things from grandpa, that was all she got due to the fighting. My oldest two uncles got grandpa's musical instruments which even the greedy ones knew he had said he wanted them to have and they surprisingly didn't fight over. The youngest got the before mentioned plates and a couple other small things and the oldest aunt got a pair of framed pictures that everyone knew grandma had left to her after some vigorous fighting with one of the greedy ones. All other furniture and things from a small apartment and a small house went to the two greedy ones. If grandpa had had money I think the family would have broken into pieces so that is the only consolation, they did make up after about 6 months and all of them ended up talking to each other and not hold on to all those feelings. But I still to this day think my two aunts were unbelievably greedy.

[sol]

she filled out a form that specifies it is to be split 4 ways when she dies (1/4 to each kid). Hopefully that is sufficient? 

In my family, the conflicts weren't over easy things like dividing up bank accounts.

One example:  Before my grandmother died, she moved into an assisted living facility and one of my cousins (and her family) moved into grandma's house (not free, but at very a very subsidized rent).  When grandma died, the will specified that the house be sold and the proceeds divided between her children, but the cousin's family tried to argue that cousin should get to keep renting the house, because grandma had been letting her live there, and they were going to be homeless without it.  Are you prepared to kick out a family with small children just so you can cash out of a property in accordance with the will?  Parts of my family still aren't speaking to each other after this debacle.

Another example:  My other grandma spent the last few years of her life living with the wealthiest one of her four children, in their big fancy house.  Her assets helped pay for building an integrated MIL suite, and then supporting the household for all of those years.  When she moved into a nursing home, her assets had to be depleted to zero to qualify for medicare and she died penniless.  The one daughter she had lived with was left with approximately a half million dollars in improved real estate value as part of her primary residence, that grandma had paid for, but which was technically not one of grandma's assets.  The other three kids got nothing of value, other than picture and keepsakes.  None of the other siblings were prepared to cry foul, so the one daughter who was already rich was the only one who got anything of value from grandma's assets and everyone sort of swallowed hard and moved on.

These sorts of complications are hard to foresee when you write a will, because neither of them were issues until the end-stages of life.

[Just Joe]

This thread has really redefined "crazy family" and "gold digger" and "selfish" among other words...

[SwordGuy]

Another example:  My other grandma spent the last few years of her life living with the wealthiest one of her four children, in their big fancy house.  Her assets helped pay for building an integrated MIL suite, and then supporting the household for all of those years.  When she moved into a nursing home, her assets had to be depleted to zero to qualify for medicare and she died penniless.  The one daughter she had lived with was left with approximately a half million dollars in improved real estate value as part of her primary residence, that grandma had paid for, but which was technically not one of grandma's assets.  The other three kids got nothing of value, other than picture and keepsakes.  None of the other siblings were prepared to cry foul, so the one daughter who was already rich was the only one who got anything of value from grandma's assets and everyone sort of swallowed hard and moved on.

Then again, they had the burden of sharing a residence with the grandma.   Some grandmas would be a blessing to live with, others would be a never-ending hell.    I have to say that, given some of the hateful folks I've known over the years, the other family members might actually OWE their rich sibling for the extra hassle.  :(

[Adventures With Poopsie]

I have really just enjoyed this thread and it has given me a lot to think about.

I remember when I was about 18 I visited my grandmother's house for the first time in a long time. I commented on a beautiful silver tea set she had, just told her it was really nice. Her response was "I will make sure you get that when I pass away." I remember being quite surprised by this, as it was just a throwaway comment. Don't get me wrong, I would love to receive it, but I also felt bad that she might have thought I was fishing for stuff.

We don't really talk much these days, so I'm sure I'm not getting the tea set. She has four children, one of whom is my mother. She doesn't talk to two of her children and she and my mother, while they talk, have had their differences. My mother thinks she will leave everything to the youngest daughter (my mother's half sister) and has told her half sister that she will challenge the estate on principal. Interesting times will ensue!

[TheGrimSqueaker]

I have really just enjoyed this thread and it has given me a lot to think about.

I remember when I was about 18 I visited my grandmother's house for the first time in a long time. I commented on a beautiful silver tea set she had, just told her it was really nice. Her response was "I will make sure you get that when I pass away." I remember being quite surprised by this, as it was just a throwaway comment. Don't get me wrong, I would love to receive it, but I also felt bad that she might have thought I was fishing for stuff.

We don't really talk much these days, so I'm sure I'm not getting the tea set. She has four children, one of whom is my mother. She doesn't talk to two of her children and she and my mother, while they talk, have had their differences. My mother thinks she will leave everything to the youngest daughter (my mother's half sister) and has told her half sister that she will challenge the estate on principal. Interesting times will ensue!

If you're an adult, you do have the right to open a conversation with your grandmother without going through your mother. Whether your mom is on the outs with your grandma isn't relevant to you. Call the old lady and find out how she's doing. Unless she's been a jerk to you, there's no reason for you not to reach out and maybe even lend a hand around the house if you're available. This by the way has nothing to do with the tea set. It's what adult grandchildren do when they want a relationship with the elder generation.

When we're children, our social circle is limited to the people our parents are in touch with: we aren't usually capable of traveling long distances by ourselves independently, although children are expected to write to their relatives and speak to them on the phone. They are generally coached to do this by their parents. These same parents take the lead when it's time to shop for birthday or holiday gifts, or when it's time to acknowledge someone's wedding or funeral. The children are supposed to absorb this lesson. When they become adults, they take over the responsibility of holding up their end of the relationships they wish to maintain.

[Adventures With Poopsie]

Oh no, she has definitely been horrible to me. I've made the choice as an adult not to have a relationship with her. I didn't invite her to my wedding recently, which I know upset my mother, but she understood. Sometimes I feel a bit guilty about it, but she is not a nice person and if she wasn't related to me, I would never tolerate such behaviour. Sure, we can make allowances for family and she has been made many, but I am pretty much done now.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Oh no, she has definitely been horrible to me. I've made the choice as an adult not to have a relationship with her. I didn't invite her to my wedding recently, which I know upset my mother, but she understood. Sometimes I feel a bit guilty about it, but she is not a nice person and if she wasn't related to me, I would never tolerate such behaviour. Sure, we can make allowances for family and she has been made many, but I am pretty much done now.

Then ignore the old bat. She's probably forgotten about the china or used it for skeet practice.

[iris lily]

Another example:  My other grandma spent the last few years of her life living with the wealthiest one of her four children, in their big fancy house.  Her assets helped pay for building an integrated MIL suite, and then supporting the household for all of those years.  When she moved into a nursing home, her assets had to be depleted to zero to qualify for medicare and she died penniless.  The one daughter she had lived with was left with approximately a half million dollars in improved real estate value as part of her primary residence, that grandma had paid for, but which was technically not one of grandma's assets.  The other three kids got nothing of value, other than picture and keepsakes.  None of the other siblings were prepared to cry foul, so the one daughter who was already rich was the only one who got anything of value from grandma's assets and everyone sort of swallowed hard and moved on.

Then again, they had the burden of sharing a residence with the grandma.   Some grandmas would be a blessing to live with, others would be a never-ending hell.    I have to say that, given some of the hateful folks I've known over the years, the other family members might actually OWE their rich sibling for the extra hassle.  :(

Haha, agreed!

But a neutral way to look at this situation is that  grandma’s assets were hers, to do with as she pleased to make her own life rich. If that meant a nice MIL suite for herself in her declining years, how great for her! Residual fallout of her assets shoildnt be the focus.

[iris lily]

My MIL and I (both only children) were talking about some of these end-of-life matters over the weekend, as we're approaching the fifth anniversary of many milestones associated with her mother's death. It seems like when you have four or more children, there's pretty-much guaranteed to be a drama-loving/moocher/problem child in the group.

But my MIL was quick to point out that being the only child to bear the burden was also difficult in different ways (and that was WITH an incredibly supportive spouse). So my guess is 2-3 siblings is the best. But there are a healthy number of stories here that have problems there, so maybe I'll retreat to "entitled people just suck".

With my family of two siblings there were no problems in administering our mother’s assets.

I honestly think there will be minimal problems in administering DH’s father’s estate when he dies. DH is a family of 5 siblings and the estate is a couple of million. All siblings are healthy (non-druggy, no -mentally ill) adults who work or are retired from careers.

 But who knows, I may be overly optimistic. But the group did negotiate the family trust when their mother died, with no problems. Their eldest sister takes care of their father’s financial life, with no squabbles or requests for handouts. So all preliminary actions signal good behavior down the road.

But I will let you all know how this works put.

[CheapskateWife]

Trouble is a'brewing....

MIL owns a mobile home in Boulder CO...in a lovely park.  Mobile home is 30 years old and holds little value.  BIL lives in southern CA but struggles mightily due to felony history/bad choices/evil ex wife/child support obligation he chose not to pay/back taxes...anyway.

Two years ago, MIL asked us to be joint owners on her home in lieu of BIL so the IRS/State of CA won't seize it when she dies to pay his debts.  Fine, we agree.  Now come to find out she is running up loads of debt, never intending to pay it off.  Living outside her means and whatnot.  When she passes (she's turning 95 this summer) we inherit the "house" and are executors of her estate.  She was hoping that by transferring the house to us, we could sell it and give the cash left over to BIL secret-like so the people he owes wont find it.  We now realize her scheme and intend to transfer the house back into the estate upon her demise so as to pay off her debts.  Whatever is left goes to BIL.

Now come to find out that BIL expects us to continue to own the house after she passes, and then he plans to move into it, paying the spot rent to the Mobile home park and maintaining the house.  Problem is the park doesn't allow subleases, so we'll be on the lease, and if he stops paying rent, we are on the hook for evicting BIL from the house before we can sell it.  It was going to be a PITA to deal with originally but if MIL allows BIL to move in prior to her demise we have a whole different set of problems.   

[talltexan]

So. Conflicted.

I feel like people who lend money to 95-year-olds deserve the inevitable discharges that appear to be coming to 'em.

But I also understand the desire to avoid years of legal wrangling/lookback claims and use the home to try to do what's morally right.

It's clear you're not getting this house long-term anyway. MIL and BIL are out-of-control, so the sooner the house is transferred to BIL, the better it's going to be for everyone. What a mess!

[AlanStache]

Trouble is a'brewing....

MIL owns a mobile home in Boulder CO...in a lovely park.  Mobile home is 30 years old and holds little value.  BIL lives in southern CA but struggles mightily due to felony history/bad choices/evil ex wife/child support obligation he chose not to pay/back taxes...anyway.

Two years ago, MIL asked us to be joint owners on her home in lieu of BIL so the IRS/State of CA won't seize it when she dies to pay his debts.  Fine, we agree.  Now come to find out she is running up loads of debt, never intending to pay it off.  Living outside her means and whatnot.  When she passes (she's turning 95 this summer) we inherit the "house" and are executors of her estate.  She was hoping that by transferring the house to us, we could sell it and give the cash left over to BIL secret-like so the people he owes wont find it.  We now realize her scheme and intend to transfer the house back into the estate upon her demise so as to pay off her debts.  Whatever is left goes to BIL.

Now come to find out that BIL expects us to continue to own the house after she passes, and then he plans to move into it, paying the spot rent to the Mobile home park and maintaining the house.  Problem is the park doesn't allow subleases, so we'll be on the lease, and if he stops paying rent, we are on the hook for evicting BIL from the house before we can sell it.  It was going to be a PITA to deal with originally but if MIL allows BIL to move in prior to her demise we have a whole different set of problems.

Donate it to NPR, I understand they will tow 'vehicles' away "running or not". 

[LaineyAZ]

Cheapskate Wife,
Maybe I'm missing something, but if the house/mobile home is not worth anything, then what's the harm in letting BIL live there?  Or am I confusing things and the "house" is different than the "mobile home"?
In the long run if BIL has a roof over his head, even if it's a 30 yr old mobile home, then at least he won't come knocking on your door to live with you. 

[CheapskateWife]

Cheapskate Wife,
Maybe I'm missing something, but if the house/mobile home is not worth anything, then what's the harm in letting BIL live there?  Or am I confusing things and the "house" is different than the "mobile home"?
In the long run if BIL has a roof over his head, even if it's a 30 yr old mobile home, then at least he won't come knocking on your door to live with you. 

The house is worth about $20K...if we sold it would cover most of her debts, and that feels like the right thing to do.

The problem is we can't transfer the ownership of the house to BIL because he won't accept it.  He's convinced it will be seized by the state of CA because he owes back child support.  Really more likely is that it would be a lien so they get their money first when HE sells it.  The problem is that the DMV in Colorado will only transfer ownership of the "home" to a willing participant.  He is not willing.  He is however, willing to put us at risk to live there. 

I think DH is just going to have to make it clear to his Bro that we aren't willing to participate in his plan, and put him on notice that we'll sell the house as soon as it is ours in total.  It might make some bad blood, but we really have to protect ourselves.

We can't abandon it, because DH's name is on the freaking title now. GRRRRRR.....

[marion10]

The reason not to let the BIL live in it is you would still be liable- so when one of his friends falls down the steps drunk and gets injured and looks around to sue- guess who it going to be.

[LadyMuMu]

CheapskateWife, this isn't what you asked about but heads up that if your husband is placed on the ownership papers rather than given the house via a will after MIL's death, he may have a tax liability not covered by MIL's "estate" when he sells it at YOUR tax rate or, if it is so old as to be unusable, mobile home removal and disposal fees. You may have already investigated this, but I thought you might want a heads up.

[CheapskateWife]

CheapskateWife, this isn't what you asked about but heads up that if your husband is placed on the ownership papers rather than given the house via a will after MIL's death, he may have a tax liability not covered by MIL's "estate" when he sells it at YOUR tax rate or, if it is so old as to be unusable, mobile home removal and disposal fees. You may have already investigated this, but I thought you might want a heads up.

 

This is excellent, and why we will be transferring ownership back to the estate when she dies.  He's the executor, so he can be on both sides of that transfer, and it keeps us from being taxed on the sale, and also makes sure that her asset covers her debt.

[Goldielocks]

Trouble is a'brewing....

MIL owns a mobile home in Boulder CO...in a lovely park.  Mobile home is 30 years old and holds little value.  BIL lives in southern CA but struggles mightily due to felony history/bad choices/evil ex wife/child support obligation he chose not to pay/back taxes...anyway.

Two years ago, MIL asked us to be joint owners on her home in lieu of BIL so the IRS/State of CA won't seize it when she dies to pay his debts.  Fine, we agree.  Now come to find out she is running up loads of debt, never intending to pay it off.  Living outside her means and whatnot.  When she passes (she's turning 95 this summer) we inherit the "house" and are executors of her estate.  She was hoping that by transferring the house to us, we could sell it and give the cash left over to BIL secret-like so the people he owes wont find it.  We now realize her scheme and intend to transfer the house back into the estate upon her demise so as to pay off her debts.  Whatever is left goes to BIL.

Now come to find out that BIL expects us to continue to own the house after she passes, and then he plans to move into it, paying the spot rent to the Mobile home park and maintaining the house.  Problem is the park doesn't allow subleases, so we'll be on the lease, and if he stops paying rent, we are on the hook for evicting BIL from the house before we can sell it.  It was going to be a PITA to deal with originally but if MIL allows BIL to move in prior to her demise we have a whole different set of problems.

I would just offer to give your share of the "home" to BIL today.    That would solve this mightily, and should please him.. (ETA I see you have already broached it.  Keep trying, explain that they don't seize a primary residence).

 Of course, people are not rational, so MIL/BIL finding out that you otherwise intend to put the home back to the estate may be a nasty surprise.

[PathtoFIRE]

CSW, can your DH just file a quit claim regarding your MIL's property, removing you all from this issue without needing any agreement from MIL or BIL?

[Nicholas Carter]

Cheapskate Wife,
Maybe I'm missing something, but if the house/mobile home is not worth anything, then what's the harm in letting BIL live there?  Or am I confusing things and the "house" is different than the "mobile home"?
In the long run if BIL has a roof over his head, even if it's a 30 yr old mobile home, then at least he won't come knocking on your door to live with you.

The secret sauce is that MIL owns the house, but rents the property the house sits on. So if BIL moves into the house, CW will be on the hook for the lease of the lot, and BIL sounds unlikely to pay rent in full, not piss off the landlord, etc.

[CheapskateWife]

I would just offer to give your share of the "home" to BIL today.    That would solve this mightily, and should please him.. (ETA I see you have already broached it.  Keep trying, explain that they don't seize a primary residence).

 Of course, people are not rational, so MIL/BIL finding out that you otherwise intend to put the home back to the estate may be a nasty surprise.

We are keeping this little gem to ourselves...I understand MIL's intent is to help BIL out as much as possible, but on the backs of creditors is not the way to do that.  I've attempted to reason with her but she won't have it.  Or maybe we do tell her and she finds an executor who will do her bidding...oh this is a tempting option

CSW, can your DH just file a quit claim regarding your MIL's property, removing you all from this issue without needing any agreement from MIL or BIL?

I had never considered this...will start investigating.

The secret sauce is that MIL owns the house, but rents the property the house sits on. So if BIL moves into the house, CW will be on the hook for the lease of the lot, and BIL sounds unlikely to pay rent in full, not piss off the landlord, etc.

This is exactly the case...also if we don't sell it and pay off creditors, then there is a whole lot of hassle we've got to deal with as executors.

[Goldielocks]

Re-reading everything, including your wish not to tell MIL that you plan to sell to pay taxes....

Could you give her a reason why receiving it as a joint owner upon her death causes you extra $$'s and you just want your name off the title / revert back to her?

Maybe talk about the future taxes, and that it is best if she has it solely in her name.?

[CheapskateWife]

Re-reading everything, including your wish not to tell MIL that you plan to sell to pay taxes....

Could you give her a reason why receiving it as a joint owner upon her death causes you extra $$'s and you just want your name off the title / revert back to her?

Maybe talk about the future taxes, and that it is best if she has it solely in her name.?

Actually we are really putting it back in the estate to pay her debts...there-in lies the rub.  She feels that the banks are evil and they deserve to lose money to her debt; she intends to stiff her creditors and has crafted her asset ownership and will to effect that end; also to maximize the amount of money we are able to pass to the BIL (secret like because in the will, DH is the sole beneficiary) 

There is just no reasoning with her on things like this.

[marty998]

Re-reading everything, including your wish not to tell MIL that you plan to sell to pay taxes....

Could you give her a reason why receiving it as a joint owner upon her death causes you extra $$'s and you just want your name off the title / revert back to her?

Maybe talk about the future taxes, and that it is best if she has it solely in her name.?

Actually we are really putting it back in the estate to pay her debts...there-in lies the rub.  She feels that the banks are evil and they deserve to lose money to her debt; she intends to stiff her creditors and has crafted her asset ownership and will to effect that end; also to maximize the amount of money we are able to pass to the BIL (secret like because in the will, DH is the sole beneficiary) 

There is just no reasoning with her on things like this.

95 year olds tend to have 95 years of accumulated thinking that isn't going to be swayed easily.

[BNgarden]

I must be missing something.  [edited]...you don't want to tell MIL your plans, but you've told BIL.  Will BIL not talk to MIL about this?  And, is not telling MIL just to maintain the option to pay off creditors or is it somehow a 'kindness' or other reason?

Why not just come clean on your intentions [edited]?

IDK but it seems there are relatively easier ways to get out of the middle.

ETA: Sorry for possible foam...edited for brevity