Author Topic: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.  (Read 1238629 times)

talltexan

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2750 on: October 13, 2021, 07:04:29 AM »
I imagine that there are also problems where the trustee may not be up to the job (i.e. it's an uncle or family friend who is aging, or increasingly can be manipulated by the trustee).

ixtap

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2751 on: October 13, 2021, 07:47:18 AM »
I have friends who have decided to leave their somewhat wayward adult daughter a lump sum, with the vast majority of their estate going to charity. I am FI and I would still consider the lump sum significant, and last I knew 4% would be roughly equal to the offspring's income, so it isn't like they are cutting her off. Just hoping to limit the squandering.

PhilB

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2752 on: October 13, 2021, 08:49:37 AM »
So, is there a recommended way to set up trusts for someone who won't be responsible with money? I've seen all kinds of different payout ages and frequency of payment. Unless the person gets a monthly stipend for life it seems like there is no way to protect against someone blowing through money, even though I agree one lump payment seems the worst of all. I wonder if there is a happy medium, that is less work for an executor but give the person "training wheels" so to speak.

The only other approach I know of is the film "Brewster's Millions".   But the person receiving the money had the capacity to learn from it, and the willful lack of that capacity is why most plans fail.    Even monthly payments can be squandered in 2-4 days leaving the rest of the month with no money.

Or worse, that income stream can probably be borrowed against so that soon all future income ends up going straight to creditors.

As former player says, if you haven't managed to teach someone good money habits whilst you're alive, you're unlikely to come up with an arrangement that will do so after you're dead.

sonofsven

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2753 on: October 13, 2021, 10:04:33 AM »
Not too much drama, but my partner's mother just informed her that she was changing her will.

Her husband (my partner's step father) passed four years ago and at that time the family was told the estate would be split up (after the passing of partner's mother) amongst all the surviving children and grandchildren equally.

So my partner and her daughter: two shares.
Her half sister and husband and three children: five shares.
Her half brother and wife and two children: four shares.
I thought this was kind of a silly way to go about it, I guess I just assumed that an inheritance would go to the next generation who would add it to their stash and then that would go to their children, etc.

I also thought it was unfair to my partner, but I'm biased, and of course people get to make their own decisions with their money so I kept my mouth shut. I did wonder if this was a Mormon thing as the deceased came from a Mormon family.

So the change is that the estate will be split equally amongst the three surviving children, exactly as I thought it should be from the start.

Turns out that the driver for the original plan was one of the grandchildren is "on the spectrum", lives with his parents in his mid twenties and will likely never be self supporting and this was a way to mitigate that.

Surviving mother is smart with money and has made other plans for the grandchild to secure his future. Deceased had worked at a government nuclear facility and surviving spouse and one daughter  (the mother of the grandchild in question) received a fairly large settlement upon his death from cancer, they combined this money for this grandchild exclusively.

Well, there is a bit of drama: deceased had a secret "love child" from an affair prior to his second marriage to partner's mother that nobody knew about until the details were laid out just prior to his passing. LC is a delusional alcoholic, unfortunately.
Love Child could also receive her own government settlement but she refused to work with my partners mother when she reached out and sent her the forms she needed to fill out because she thinks everyone is trying to take advantage of her.

FIPurpose

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2754 on: October 13, 2021, 11:54:10 AM »
I think splitting among the children/grandchildren is a good idea. Otherwise, the parent with only one child ends up being far wealthier than the other grandchildren and that might foment some distrust among the family.

There is some tax advantage to skipping generations if there's a lot of money in the estate, but I'm assuming they weren't close to that line.

At the age most people are living to now (SO and I have 5 grandparents and 4 parents still living between the 2 of us) So I really don't expect to inherit anything until I'm passed 50 or even 60 years old. I'd have waay more than enough money and if my parents wanted to skip me on inheritance and go straight to the grandchildren / charity, I think that would be a fine decision.

Sugaree

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2755 on: October 13, 2021, 12:02:34 PM »
I think splitting among the children/grandchildren is a good idea. Otherwise, the parent with only one child ends up being far wealthier than the other grandchildren and that might foment some distrust among the family.

There is some tax advantage to skipping generations if there's a lot of money in the estate, but I'm assuming they weren't close to that line.

At the age most people are living to now (SO and I have 5 grandparents and 4 parents still living between the 2 of us) So I really don't expect to inherit anything until I'm passed 50 or even 60 years old. I'd have waay more than enough money and if my parents wanted to skip me on inheritance and go straight to the grandchildren / charity, I think that would be a fine decision.


And on the other side, the parent who has only one child may feel like they're being punished for the choices of their sibling. 

PDXTabs

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2756 on: October 13, 2021, 12:18:08 PM »
At the age most people are living to now (SO and I have 5 grandparents and 4 parents still living between the 2 of us) So I really don't expect to inherit anything until I'm passed 50 or even 60 years old. I'd have waay more than enough money and if my parents wanted to skip me on inheritance and go straight to the grandchildren / charity, I think that would be a fine decision.

I'm the same way. I will probably get a meaningful inheritance from my one remaining parent right when I absolutely do not need it. But you know, maybe I'll use it to take care of the less fortunate in my family.

PDXTabs

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2757 on: October 13, 2021, 12:19:26 PM »
And on the other side, the parent who has only one child may feel like they're being punished for the choices of their sibling.

Yup. In my family we tend to distribute to the children of the deceased parent. Which means that there is no incentive to crank out more kids.

FIPurpose

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2758 on: October 13, 2021, 01:23:36 PM »
I think splitting among the children/grandchildren is a good idea. Otherwise, the parent with only one child ends up being far wealthier than the other grandchildren and that might foment some distrust among the family.

There is some tax advantage to skipping generations if there's a lot of money in the estate, but I'm assuming they weren't close to that line.

At the age most people are living to now (SO and I have 5 grandparents and 4 parents still living between the 2 of us) So I really don't expect to inherit anything until I'm passed 50 or even 60 years old. I'd have waay more than enough money and if my parents wanted to skip me on inheritance and go straight to the grandchildren / charity, I think that would be a fine decision.


And on the other side, the parent who has only one child may feel like they're being punished for the choices of their sibling.

I'd like to think that my siblings wouldn't quibble, but then again only 2/4 even have children. (And I kind of assume they won't) So perhaps I'm just biased for passing on the wealth to the next generation.

I think though that it would be unfair to make the grandparents choose between fairly distributing between their children or their grandchildren. Especially if their grandchildren have been around a long time, then they love them too. And I'd like to think that if I were a grandparent, I'd want to treat all of my descendants as fairly and equitably as possible.

The number of children may be the choice of siblings, but that has a direct impact on the grandparents' legacy. Those siblings are building out the family tree, and funding that to be as healthy and taken care of as possible is important. It's in the grandparents' interest to treat them equitably, no matter whose children they are.

At the very least, giving an equal share to all parents and grandparents is a good way of splitting that baby. The children get a share that they will likely only pass to their children, and the grandchildren get a share that helps equality and also helps them get a jump start in life. (70 year old parents shouldn't need additional 6 figures, but 30 year old grandchildren will be in the perfect time in their life for needing a down payment, a business start up, or continuing education.) 30k to a 30 year old is far more valuable than 100k to a 60-70 year old imo.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2759 on: October 13, 2021, 02:48:17 PM »
One thing I've seen done:  The grandparents, while living, give an equal sum to each grandchild at birth, where it'll have 18 years to compound, and when the grandparents pass away, their estate is divided equally among their immediate children (i.e. grandkids' parents).  The idea is that each grandkid gets an reasonably equal benefit, the parents have to worry less about paying for college, and the parents themselves are treated equally when the grandparents pass away.

I have to say, it's kind of weird to be debating what's "fair" when dividing up money among people who didn't earn it. 

sonofsven

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2760 on: October 13, 2021, 03:02:22 PM »
I think splitting among the children/grandchildren is a good idea. Otherwise, the parent with only one child ends up being far wealthier than the other grandchildren and that might foment some distrust among the family.

There is some tax advantage to skipping generations if there's a lot of money in the estate, but I'm assuming they weren't close to that line.

At the age most people are living to now (SO and I have 5 grandparents and 4 parents still living between the 2 of us) So I really don't expect to inherit anything until I'm passed 50 or even 60 years old. I'd have waay more than enough money and if my parents wanted to skip me on inheritance and go straight to the grandchildren / charity, I think that would be a fine decision.


And on the other side, the parent who has only one child may feel like they're being punished for the choices of their sibling.

I'd like to think that my siblings wouldn't quibble, but then again only 2/4 even have children. (And I kind of assume they won't) So perhaps I'm just biased for passing on the wealth to the next generation.

I think though that it would be unfair to make the grandparents choose between fairly distributing between their children or their grandchildren. Especially if their grandchildren have been around a long time, then they love them too. And I'd like to think that if I were a grandparent, I'd want to treat all of my descendants as fairly and equitably as possible.

The number of children may be the choice of siblings, but that has a direct impact on the grandparents' legacy. Those siblings are building out the family tree, and funding that to be as healthy and taken care of as possible is important. It's in the grandparents' interest to treat them equitably, no matter whose children they are.

At the very least, giving an equal share to all parents and grandparents is a good way of splitting that baby. The children get a share that they will likely only pass to their children, and the grandchildren get a share that helps equality and also helps them get a jump start in life. (70 year old parents shouldn't need additional 6 figures, but 30 year old grandchildren will be in the perfect time in their life for needing a down payment, a business start up, or continuing education.) 30k to a 30 year old is far more valuable than 100k to a 60-70 year old imo.

I think I was just surprised because I had never heard of this idea; I can see the benefits, too, but it's not how it's been done in my family. So, different.
I wonder if maybe the deceased knows things about the other adults (all in their 50's now) that I don't? Maybe he thought some of them would waste the money? Grandmother apparently does not believe that.

I think it's interesting that she is going against what were their shared wishes. She always took the back seat, she's a traditional "stand by (behind) your man" type who believed the man should be in charge, but look now, she's taking charge and doing what she thinks is right.


FIPurpose

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2761 on: October 13, 2021, 03:19:40 PM »
One thing I've seen done:  The grandparents, while living, give an equal sum to each grandchild at birth, where it'll have 18 years to compound, and when the grandparents pass away, their estate is divided equally among their immediate children (i.e. grandkids' parents).  The idea is that each grandkid gets an reasonably equal benefit, the parents have to worry less about paying for college, and the parents themselves are treated equally when the grandparents pass away.

I have to say, it's kind of weird to be debating what's "fair" when dividing up money among people who didn't earn it.

Alternatively, you could just decide to divide your wealth into chunks of 10%, 20%, 30%, and 40%, and then just randomly assign those to different relatives.

Seeing as the standard in our society is to evenly divide the wealth among the next generation (donating a large sum to charity is also a common cultural norm), I'd say that deviating too far from the cultural norm can start to err into "unfair". And we can judge it as unfair in the same way that someone who wants their money withdrawn and then burned can be labeled "stupid" despite it being their money to do with as they please.

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2762 on: October 13, 2021, 05:23:47 PM »
One thing I've seen done:  The grandparents, while living, give an equal sum to each grandchild at birth, where it'll have 18 years to compound, and when the grandparents pass away, their estate is divided equally among their immediate children (i.e. grandkids' parents).  The idea is that each grandkid gets an reasonably equal benefit, the parents have to worry less about paying for college, and the parents themselves are treated equally when the grandparents pass away.

I have to say, it's kind of weird to be debating what's "fair" when dividing up money among people who didn't earn it.

I mean, yes, but it's crappy to set up a situation where some heirs feel more loved and respected because they got more money!

When my grandfather passed and the large estate of my grandparents was divvied up, my cousins split the share of their father who had pre-deceased Grandfather by many years* and the rest went to his other children/stepchildren. The grandchildren are all grown and educated but the great-grands receive yearly 529 contributions.

*Fun fact: This is because my grandfather was much younger than Grandma, and her older two sons were maybe 10-12 years younger? So my uncle was a respectable 70 when he died.

Mighty Eyebrows

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2763 on: October 13, 2021, 08:47:13 PM »
If you haven't managed to "train" someone in your lifetime then expecting someone else to succeed where you have failed is unreasonable.

Very well said.

I think though that it would be unfair to make the grandparents choose between fairly distributing between their children or their grandchildren.

We should all remember that these choices are entirely cultural. What is "fair" varies between societies and there is no objective right or wrong. Obviously, if expectations are different, then conflicts can arise.

For intestate individuals, different jurisdictions will default to different choices:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_stirpes

Captain FIRE

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2764 on: October 14, 2021, 08:20:45 AM »
I think though that it would be unfair to make the grandparents choose between fairly distributing between their children or their grandchildren.

We should all remember that these choices are entirely cultural. What is "fair" varies between societies and there is no objective right or wrong. Obviously, if expectations are different, then conflicts can arise.

For intestate individuals, different jurisdictions will default to different choices:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_stirpes

It's also up to the decedent to determine what they think is right (as in, what they want to do), regardless of whether it's fair.  (On the flip side, a person estate planning ought to realize that if they don't provide in a way that is deemed generally fair, whether right or wrong that relationships amongst their heirs could be irreparably damaged and it may impact how a descendant feels about the giver/their relationship - "how loved" they feel they were.)

For me, I personally default towards inheriting per stirpes, where the inheritance is split by child.  It's seems wrong to me that if a child were deceased, their children would receive no share in a per capita split.  But, I recognize not everyone feels that way.  If I wanted to skip a generation, I would give my grandkids their "portion" of their child's share, rather than give equally at the grandchild level.  (That said, I might likely give equal money for a 529 at a grandchild's birth.)

Sugaree

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2765 on: October 14, 2021, 08:56:31 AM »
I think splitting among the children/grandchildren is a good idea. Otherwise, the parent with only one child ends up being far wealthier than the other grandchildren and that might foment some distrust among the family.

There is some tax advantage to skipping generations if there's a lot of money in the estate, but I'm assuming they weren't close to that line.

At the age most people are living to now (SO and I have 5 grandparents and 4 parents still living between the 2 of us) So I really don't expect to inherit anything until I'm passed 50 or even 60 years old. I'd have waay more than enough money and if my parents wanted to skip me on inheritance and go straight to the grandchildren / charity, I think that would be a fine decision.


And on the other side, the parent who has only one child may feel like they're being punished for the choices of their sibling.

I'd like to think that my siblings wouldn't quibble, but then again only 2/4 even have children. (And I kind of assume they won't) So perhaps I'm just biased for passing on the wealth to the next generation.

I think though that it would be unfair to make the grandparents choose between fairly distributing between their children or their grandchildren. Especially if their grandchildren have been around a long time, then they love them too. And I'd like to think that if I were a grandparent, I'd want to treat all of my descendants as fairly and equitably as possible.

The number of children may be the choice of siblings, but that has a direct impact on the grandparents' legacy. Those siblings are building out the family tree, and funding that to be as healthy and taken care of as possible is important. It's in the grandparents' interest to treat them equitably, no matter whose children they are.

At the very least, giving an equal share to all parents and grandparents is a good way of splitting that baby. The children get a share that they will likely only pass to their children, and the grandchildren get a share that helps equality and also helps them get a jump start in life. (70 year old parents shouldn't need additional 6 figures, but 30 year old grandchildren will be in the perfect time in their life for needing a down payment, a business start up, or continuing education.) 30k to a 30 year old is far more valuable than 100k to a 60-70 year old imo.

Perhaps.  In my family there is a situation where there are two siblings.  One sibling has one child while the other has four.  The sibling with four children has already received a lot in the way of economic outpatient care, including two mostly-funded international moves, more than one graduate degree, and significant help buying a house.  The sibling with one child has received some financial support, but is also the one that is local to the parents and has provided a lot of practical support while the parents have been ill.  That one already feels as if their sibling is the "favorite" and splitting the estate 5 ways where one branch gets 4/5 as opposed to 1/2 would just be seen as a final slap in the face. 

ixtap

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2766 on: October 14, 2021, 09:20:16 AM »
We don't equate our parents' money with their love. When it comes to EOC, we figure that their money has an inverse correlation with respect.

One way my parents show that respect is by treaty us as near equals on joint vacations. They wouldn't even think of inviting my siblings on a cruise without offering to pay for them. I say near equals because Dad still loves to pay for dinners whenever he can.

If either my parents or ILs decide to disinherit or lesser inherit us, it will be because they worry more about our siblings, which is not the same as loving them more. Currently, they are just as worried about our siblings blowing through an inheritance as any other outcome, so they figure they might as well include us in an inheritance. ILs do seem to hope that we would somehow use it to the benefit of the family, but my parents have absolved me of being responsible for my financially irresponsible siblings.

FIPurpose

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2767 on: October 14, 2021, 09:26:14 AM »
I think splitting among the children/grandchildren is a good idea. Otherwise, the parent with only one child ends up being far wealthier than the other grandchildren and that might foment some distrust among the family.

There is some tax advantage to skipping generations if there's a lot of money in the estate, but I'm assuming they weren't close to that line.

At the age most people are living to now (SO and I have 5 grandparents and 4 parents still living between the 2 of us) So I really don't expect to inherit anything until I'm passed 50 or even 60 years old. I'd have waay more than enough money and if my parents wanted to skip me on inheritance and go straight to the grandchildren / charity, I think that would be a fine decision.


And on the other side, the parent who has only one child may feel like they're being punished for the choices of their sibling.

I'd like to think that my siblings wouldn't quibble, but then again only 2/4 even have children. (And I kind of assume they won't) So perhaps I'm just biased for passing on the wealth to the next generation.

I think though that it would be unfair to make the grandparents choose between fairly distributing between their children or their grandchildren. Especially if their grandchildren have been around a long time, then they love them too. And I'd like to think that if I were a grandparent, I'd want to treat all of my descendants as fairly and equitably as possible.

The number of children may be the choice of siblings, but that has a direct impact on the grandparents' legacy. Those siblings are building out the family tree, and funding that to be as healthy and taken care of as possible is important. It's in the grandparents' interest to treat them equitably, no matter whose children they are.

At the very least, giving an equal share to all parents and grandparents is a good way of splitting that baby. The children get a share that they will likely only pass to their children, and the grandchildren get a share that helps equality and also helps them get a jump start in life. (70 year old parents shouldn't need additional 6 figures, but 30 year old grandchildren will be in the perfect time in their life for needing a down payment, a business start up, or continuing education.) 30k to a 30 year old is far more valuable than 100k to a 60-70 year old imo.

Perhaps.  In my family there is a situation where there are two siblings.  One sibling has one child while the other has four.  The sibling with four children has already received a lot in the way of economic outpatient care, including two mostly-funded international moves, more than one graduate degree, and significant help buying a house.  The sibling with one child has received some financial support, but is also the one that is local to the parents and has provided a lot of practical support while the parents have been ill.  That one already feels as if their sibling is the "favorite" and splitting the estate 5 ways where one branch gets 4/5 as opposed to 1/2 would just be seen as a final slap in the face.

I definitely depends on the family's circumstances. I'm not saying this would work out for all families and circumstances. But the method suggested would be splitting it evenly 7 ways (basically 70/30), or heck you could do a double share to the children and go 9 ways (66/33 split). But yes, no matter how you slice the cake, someone isn't going to like it and everyone has to just deal with what they're given at the end of the day.

However, this wouldn't make sense if the grandparents die relatively young and not all of their grandchildren are born yet. I was saying that skipping a generation seems to make more sense due to increasing lifespan. The children are more likely to do nothing with the money but sit on it til they die, and the grandchildren would be in the exact spot to do something useful with the money.

This isn't true for every family. If you know you won't be making it to 70, perhaps the typical per stirpes is the best decision. But but if all the direct heirs are over 70, maybe it would be best to skip them. (Kind of like how maybe Charles just shouldn't bother becoming King). But then again, perhaps your descendants are all snots and you want to give your money to some friends or a charity. That could make sense given certain circumstances.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2768 on: October 15, 2021, 05:54:48 PM »

Or worse, that income stream can probably be borrowed against so that soon all future income ends up going straight to creditors.



You can insert a spendthrift clause into the trust, which, if operable in that state, basically means that creditors can't come after the future income directly.  Of course, they can still try to grab the money once distributed.

Also, you could set up a trust where the trustee directly pays for certain obligations which also limits the ability of foolish people to bargain away future interests.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2769 on: October 18, 2021, 09:10:49 AM »
This story is developing, and I'm hearing everything secondhand from one of the interested parties, so take it all with a grain of salt.

My wife's uncle (we'll call him Pop) died a few weeks ago. That's no surprise, as he was 60 and 300+ pounds, but of course no will. Wife's cousin (we'll call her DQ for drama queen, as drama seems to follow her) calls my wife to vent about everything her dad's wife (we'll call her SM for step mom) has been doing.

SM went and hired an attorney without consulting anyone else in the family. I guess that's no big deal, but it seems a little shady to not include the deceased's daughter in the conversation. Yesterday, my wife hung out with DQ to let her vent. During that time, SM called DQ, and the two engaged in a 15 minute screaming match, largely over the issue of getting a lawyer and SM not communicating with DQ about it. All of this happens on speaker phone, with my poor anti-conflict wife stuck in the car listening to it all.

Pop's gravesite was already paid for, but SM wants a plot next to him, which costs $950 to reserve. She doesn't have $950, but apparently the money can come directly out of the life insurance policy on Pop. Pop's life insurance has a 50/50 payout between SM & DQ. However, because the $950 comes directly out of the life insurance policy, it's happening before the 50/50 split, meaning that DQ is losing out on $475 so that SM can get the plot adjacent. That doesn't pass the smell test to me, but I'm not much of an expert on life insurance and funeral planning. I'm hoping that DQ is misinterpreting when the money comes out of the policy.

SM show's up at Pop's mom's house. She asks Pop's 50 year-old mentally-handicapped brother for the key to the garage to get Pop's stuff (tools and such). Thankfully, brother doesn't know where it is. Then SM asks Pop's mom (who has Alzheimer's and also isn't aware of things) and gets the key from her. She proceeds to take a bunch of stuff out of the garage. Pop's sister, who is the caretaker for their mom and mentally-handicapped sibling, finds out about it, goes to the garage and finds that SM took nearly everything out of the garage, including things that weren't Pop's. So sister called the police on SM yesterday.

Pop ran a large farm. He had a lot of equipment with debt on it all. The proceeds from the farm barely covered the debt payments. I know for a fact that Pop had discussed letting DQ's husband take over running the farm (but again, no will). SM has the keys to the equipment and isn't turning them over. It's approaching harvest time, and missing the harvest will result in a lot of lost revenue.

I don't imagine that Pop had much of an estate, aside from the farm itself, which is saddled with debt.

iluvzbeach

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2770 on: October 18, 2021, 09:35:11 AM »
@DadJokes, sorry to hear your family is going through this as it does sound like a situation that is not going to end without quite a bit of drama. In regard to the life insurance policy and burial plot, I *think* but am not 100% certain that the “assignment” for the $950 cost can be placed on one person’s proceeds. I say this because my father recently passed away and there was a small life insurance policy on which my stepmom & I were beneficiaries. We have a close relationship with no drama, but the insurance company is dealing with us completely separately and we each have to submit our own claim forms & documentation, including anything related to assignment of proceeds to a funeral home. It would seem to me that, in the case you describe, SM would simply take responsibility for the assignment of funds against her portion of the proceeds. Of course, I recognize DQ may not be dealing with a reasonable SM and that has the potential to change everything.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2771 on: October 18, 2021, 01:46:21 PM »
@DadJokes that certainly does sound like it's becoming messy.

Having recently been adjacent to similar petty-level drama, I'll ask this:
is DQ indigent? If not, then seriously: who cares about $475? I know, I know, it's the principle of the matter. But, everything you've written indicates to me that SM is in a heap of financial trouble. Does SM work outside the home?

Sounds like the lawyer has probably informed SM that, in the absence of a will, she is inheriting everything except beneficiary-designated assets. The tools have value and can be sold. Yes, it is shitty that she has gone out of her way to steal even tools that weren't his and that she is hoarding things (probably even sentimental things that might have no real value) from the rest of the family. She likely is freaking out and worried that she will need to sell everything that isn't nailed down to survive.

Don't be surprised if she puts the entire farm on the market shortly . . . in her eyes, this year's harvest might be fairly irrelevant at this point. She might even be hoping to sell it really fast before harvest is due, which makes the harvest someone else's problem while she is counting her cash from the sale.  Since it's October, I doubt any sale will happen that fast, but that might be where her brain is. Or maybe a lawyer has advised her she can apply for a govt farm subsidy if she doesn't harvest the crops? (yes, that is a thing people do in the USA.)

Again, sorry your wife got pulled into the mess. I suspect DQ is screwed and SM will prevail.

Written estate planning is especially important in 2nd and 3rd marriages unless you want your own biological kids to get nothing while your step son (who treats you like dirt and acts like a jackass at Thanksgiving) ultimately inherits all of your stuff and money when your second wife finally passes and gets buried in that plot right next to you.

DadJokes

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2772 on: October 18, 2021, 02:25:35 PM »
@DadJokes that certainly does sound like it's becoming messy.

Having recently been adjacent to similar petty-level drama, I'll ask this:
is DQ indigent? If not, then seriously: who cares about $475? I know, I know, it's the principle of the matter. But, everything you've written indicates to me that SM is in a heap of financial trouble. Does SM work outside the home?

Sounds like the lawyer has probably informed SM that, in the absence of a will, she is inheriting everything except beneficiary-designated assets. The tools have value and can be sold. Yes, it is shitty that she has gone out of her way to steal even tools that weren't his and that she is hoarding things (probably even sentimental things that might have no real value) from the rest of the family. She likely is freaking out and worried that she will need to sell everything that isn't nailed down to survive.

Don't be surprised if she puts the entire farm on the market shortly . . . in her eyes, this year's harvest might be fairly irrelevant at this point. She might even be hoping to sell it really fast before harvest is due, which makes the harvest someone else's problem while she is counting her cash from the sale.  Since it's October, I doubt any sale will happen that fast, but that might be where her brain is. Or maybe a lawyer has advised her she can apply for a govt farm subsidy if she doesn't harvest the crops? (yes, that is a thing people do in the USA.)

Again, sorry your wife got pulled into the mess. I suspect DQ is screwed and SM will prevail.

Written estate planning is especially important in 2nd and 3rd marriages unless you want your own biological kids to get nothing while your step son (who treats you like dirt and acts like a jackass at Thanksgiving) ultimately inherits all of your stuff and money when your second wife finally passes and gets buried in that plot right next to you.

I asked a lot of the same questions. I definitely don't think that $475 is that material to DQ. It's probably more the principle.

The farm bit is concerning though. I don't really know the actual ownership structure. Several members of the extended family have houses on the farm, including my wife's parents, Pop's mom, Pop's sister, and a couple others. While the houses are all owned outright, it'd still be a PITA for that not to be in family hands.

Edit: Pop's mom technically owns the farm, and it would have been passed down to Pop but will now be passed down to DQ. Pop owned all of the equipment, which SM now owns.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2021, 04:56:24 AM by DadJokes »

Dee18

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2773 on: October 21, 2021, 06:35:01 AM »
"While the houses are all owned outright, it'd still be a PITA for that not to be in family hands."

I think one of the key complexities after a parent remarries is that the now-deceased spouse (Pop here) probably thought of the new spouse (SM) as family, but the extended family may not feel that way. 

LD_TAndK

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2774 on: October 29, 2021, 09:21:12 AM »
This isn't super dramatic but... my parents are frugal and well off, retired with very little chance of running out of money. They've told my sister and I several times they plan on leaving their money as an inheritance to us.

My low estimate of their invested assets is 2 Million dollars. I found out recently their current money manager is taking a 3% fee! So they're paying at least 60k annually to have their investments managed. It's particularly egregious considering their typical annual spending is only around 50k.

Thankfully my sister and I aren't depending on any money, but it's still outrageous!

JoePublic3.14

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2775 on: October 30, 2021, 08:31:11 AM »
This isn't super dramatic but... my parents are frugal and well off, retired with very little chance of running out of money. They've told my sister and I several times they plan on leaving their money as an inheritance to us.

My low estimate of their invested assets is 2 Million dollars. I found out recently their current money manager is taking a 3% fee! So they're paying at least 60k annually to have their investments managed. It's particularly egregious considering their typical annual spending is only around 50k.

Thankfully my sister and I aren't depending on any money, but it's still outrageous!

Ouch. When the time unfortunately comes to settle things, I would have some choice words for that crook.

So bad.

dandarc

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2776 on: October 30, 2021, 09:13:10 AM »
3% - seems maybe more likely than your standard financial advisor to be doing some kind of Fraud. High price can make it seem more legit - "you get what you pay for" and such.

Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2777 on: October 30, 2021, 10:08:58 AM »
3% - seems maybe more likely than your standard financial advisor to be doing some kind of Fraud. High price can make it seem more legit - "you get what you pay for" and such.
Not necessarily fraud, per se, Edward Jones, perhaps?

TomTX

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2778 on: October 30, 2021, 11:04:09 AM »
3% - seems maybe more likely than your standard financial advisor to be doing some kind of Fraud. High price can make it seem more legit - "you get what you pay for" and such.
Not necessarily fraud, per se, Edward Jones, perhaps?

You're saying that in a Venn diagram of Fraud and Edward Jones that EJ isn't totally contained within the Fraud circle?

Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2779 on: October 30, 2021, 12:29:25 PM »
3% - seems maybe more likely than your standard financial advisor to be doing some kind of Fraud. High price can make it seem more legit - "you get what you pay for" and such.
Not necessarily fraud, per se, Edward Jones, perhaps?

You're saying that in a Venn diagram of Fraud and Edward Jones that EJ isn't totally contained within the Fraud circle?
In a Mustachian Venn Diagram of Fraud, of course it is!

RWTL

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2780 on: November 01, 2021, 04:08:28 AM »
This isn't super dramatic but... my parents are frugal and well off, retired with very little chance of running out of money. They've told my sister and I several times they plan on leaving their money as an inheritance to us.

My low estimate of their invested assets is 2 Million dollars. I found out recently their current money manager is taking a 3% fee! So they're paying at least 60k annually to have their investments managed. It's particularly egregious considering their typical annual spending is only around 50k.

Thankfully my sister and I aren't depending on any money, but it's still outrageous!

Unfortunately, I had a close family member pass away several months ago.  As the executor of the estate, I found he was in a similar situation - but with far less total amount.  Same type of deal, the company managing his assets were taking between 2-3% and had him invested in all kinds of crazy mutual funds with high fees, plus several individual stocks that I'm sure my relative had no clue what they were.   It took a while, but I got everything moved over to Vanguard and into low cost mutual funds.

I looked at the returns he was getting, and it only ended up being around 4% annually during this crazy bull market.

The ironic part is when I told the advisor I was moving everything he said "Good luck with that..." in reference to his thought that I couldn't do better than his performance.

Wolfpack Mustachian

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2781 on: November 01, 2021, 02:24:11 PM »
This isn't super dramatic but... my parents are frugal and well off, retired with very little chance of running out of money. They've told my sister and I several times they plan on leaving their money as an inheritance to us.

My low estimate of their invested assets is 2 Million dollars. I found out recently their current money manager is taking a 3% fee! So they're paying at least 60k annually to have their investments managed. It's particularly egregious considering their typical annual spending is only around 50k.

Thankfully my sister and I aren't depending on any money, but it's still outrageous!

Unfortunately, I had a close family member pass away several months ago.  As the executor of the estate, I found he was in a similar situation - but with far less total amount.  Same type of deal, the company managing his assets were taking between 2-3% and had him invested in all kinds of crazy mutual funds with high fees, plus several individual stocks that I'm sure my relative had no clue what they were.   It took a while, but I got everything moved over to Vanguard and into low cost mutual funds.

I looked at the returns he was getting, and it only ended up being around 4% annually during this crazy bull market.

The ironic part is when I told the advisor I was moving everything he said "Good luck with that..." in reference to his thought that I couldn't do better than his performance.

That kind of stuff makes me wonder. Was it just a sarcastic snide comment to hopefully make you feel bad or maybe reconsider,  or are these people ignorant enough they truly buy in on what they're selling?

dandarc

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2782 on: November 01, 2021, 02:31:53 PM »
I'd assume they get sales training and basically no actual training giving them a way to know whether the investment results are good, bad, or otherwise.

RWTL

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2783 on: November 01, 2021, 03:04:09 PM »
This isn't super dramatic but... my parents are frugal and well off, retired with very little chance of running out of money. They've told my sister and I several times they plan on leaving their money as an inheritance to us.

My low estimate of their invested assets is 2 Million dollars. I found out recently their current money manager is taking a 3% fee! So they're paying at least 60k annually to have their investments managed. It's particularly egregious considering their typical annual spending is only around 50k.

Thankfully my sister and I aren't depending on any money, but it's still outrageous!

Unfortunately, I had a close family member pass away several months ago.  As the executor of the estate, I found he was in a similar situation - but with far less total amount.  Same type of deal, the company managing his assets were taking between 2-3% and had him invested in all kinds of crazy mutual funds with high fees, plus several individual stocks that I'm sure my relative had no clue what they were.   It took a while, but I got everything moved over to Vanguard and into low cost mutual funds.

I looked at the returns he was getting, and it only ended up being around 4% annually during this crazy bull market.

The ironic part is when I told the advisor I was moving everything he said "Good luck with that..." in reference to his thought that I couldn't do better than his performance.

That kind of stuff makes me wonder. Was it just a sarcastic snide comment to hopefully make you feel bad or maybe reconsider,  or are these people ignorant enough they truly buy in on what they're selling?

Honestly, I think it was ignorance rather than sarcasm....I think he truly thought he helped my relative out.

AlanStache

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2784 on: November 01, 2021, 03:37:16 PM »
This isn't super dramatic but... my parents are frugal and well off, retired with very little chance of running out of money. They've told my sister and I several times they plan on leaving their money as an inheritance to us.

My low estimate of their invested assets is 2 Million dollars. I found out recently their current money manager is taking a 3% fee! So they're paying at least 60k annually to have their investments managed. It's particularly egregious considering their typical annual spending is only around 50k.

Thankfully my sister and I aren't depending on any money, but it's still outrageous!

Unfortunately, I had a close family member pass away several months ago.  As the executor of the estate, I found he was in a similar situation - but with far less total amount.  Same type of deal, the company managing his assets were taking between 2-3% and had him invested in all kinds of crazy mutual funds with high fees, plus several individual stocks that I'm sure my relative had no clue what they were.   It took a while, but I got everything moved over to Vanguard and into low cost mutual funds.

I looked at the returns he was getting, and it only ended up being around 4% annually during this crazy bull market.

The ironic part is when I told the advisor I was moving everything he said "Good luck with that..." in reference to his thought that I couldn't do better than his performance.

That kind of stuff makes me wonder. Was it just a sarcastic snide comment to hopefully make you feel bad or maybe reconsider,  or are these people ignorant enough they truly buy in on what they're selling?

Honestly, I think it was ignorance rather than sarcasm....I think he truly thought he helped my relative out.

If his head is 100% in an active trading world or where everything has a 3% fee, I can see where he would think that.  Not everyone is in IVV
Also there is the old saying "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."

My grandpa had most of his stuff with Raymond James and after his passing some family inherited it and decided to leave it with them.  I mentioned the fees to them but did not push to hard as I figured them not touching it was probably better than them trying to do something without really knowing what they are doing or selling it all at the first down turn and never rebuying.  An imperfect plan today is better than a prefect one tomorrow.

Wolfpack Mustachian

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2785 on: November 01, 2021, 04:04:37 PM »
This isn't super dramatic but... my parents are frugal and well off, retired with very little chance of running out of money. They've told my sister and I several times they plan on leaving their money as an inheritance to us.

My low estimate of their invested assets is 2 Million dollars. I found out recently their current money manager is taking a 3% fee! So they're paying at least 60k annually to have their investments managed. It's particularly egregious considering their typical annual spending is only around 50k.

Thankfully my sister and I aren't depending on any money, but it's still outrageous!

Unfortunately, I had a close family member pass away several months ago.  As the executor of the estate, I found he was in a similar situation - but with far less total amount.  Same type of deal, the company managing his assets were taking between 2-3% and had him invested in all kinds of crazy mutual funds with high fees, plus several individual stocks that I'm sure my relative had no clue what they were.   It took a while, but I got everything moved over to Vanguard and into low cost mutual funds.

I looked at the returns he was getting, and it only ended up being around 4% annually during this crazy bull market.

The ironic part is when I told the advisor I was moving everything he said "Good luck with that..." in reference to his thought that I couldn't do better than his performance.

That kind of stuff makes me wonder. Was it just a sarcastic snide comment to hopefully make you feel bad or maybe reconsider,  or are these people ignorant enough they truly buy in on what they're selling?

Honestly, I think it was ignorance rather than sarcasm....I think he truly thought he helped my relative out.

If his head is 100% in an active trading world or where everything has a 3% fee, I can see where he would think that.  Not everyone is in IVV
Also there is the old saying "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."

My grandpa had most of his stuff with Raymond James and after his passing some family inherited it and decided to leave it with them.  I mentioned the fees to them but did not push to hard as I figured them not touching it was probably better than them trying to do something without really knowing what they are doing or selling it all at the first down turn and never rebuying.  An imperfect plan today is better than a prefect one tomorrow.

I ran into that with someone I was talking with who was "saving" money with a whole life insurance plan. Basically he admitted to me if he didn't have it going in there and auto pulled out of his account,  it would be spent. Since it was already going there and under the guise of life insurance which his SO could get behind,  it could stay and wouldn't get spent... so,  I dropped it sadly.

Reynold

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2786 on: January 11, 2022, 07:12:59 PM »

Unfortunately, I had a close family member pass away several months ago.  As the executor of the estate, I found he was in a similar situation - but with far less total amount.  Same type of deal, the company managing his assets were taking between 2-3% and had him invested in all kinds of crazy mutual funds with high fees, plus several individual stocks that I'm sure my relative had no clue what they were.   It took a while, but I got everything moved over to Vanguard and into low cost mutual funds.

I looked at the returns he was getting, and it only ended up being around 4% annually during this crazy bull market.

The ironic part is when I told the advisor I was moving everything he said "Good luck with that..." in reference to his thought that I couldn't do better than his performance.

That kind of stuff makes me wonder. Was it just a sarcastic snide comment to hopefully make you feel bad or maybe reconsider,  or are these people ignorant enough they truly buy in on what they're selling?

Honestly, I think it was ignorance rather than sarcasm....I think he truly thought he helped my relative out.

Think of the number of examples we see in the MMM forums of people who instantly blow every dime they get when they get their hands on money.  These advisors were trained in an environment where everyone is either like that, or they "wisely" save with a management company like theirs.  They aren't meeting the people who can save on their own, like most of us on these forums. 

When we started getting invites to investment seminars, my DW was reading the educational backgrounds of the people running them, expecting it to be Harvard business degrees and such.  Nope, Fine Arts degree, Communications degree, etc.  Anyone peddling investments to the likes of ordinary consumers, especially if they have to offer free seminars for customers, is not exactly Warren Buffett in terms of investing knowledge.  They have, however, been told that investing is Super Hard, so only Professionals should try it. 

MissNancyPryor

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2787 on: January 13, 2022, 06:24:38 AM »


Think of the number of examples we see in the MMM forums of people who instantly blow every dime they get when they get their hands on money.  These advisors were trained in an environment where everyone is either like that, or they "wisely" save with a management company like theirs.  They aren't meeting the people who can save on their own, like most of us on these forums. 

[/quote]

Similarly, I have heard that a main selling point for whole life insurance policies is that it creates a monthly bill that people will pay when they otherwise would not save that same amount.  That same amount invested monthly in VTSAX would have worked wonders but most don't have the discipline for that, but they will pay a bill.  Even though it is a terrible product it is one way to get some people to have even one nickel set aside.  I would never recommend it, but that is the same mindset as people believing they could never invest without an expensive Ed Jones holding their hand. 

JGS1980

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2788 on: January 13, 2022, 07:32:02 AM »


Think of the number of examples we see in the MMM forums of people who instantly blow every dime they get when they get their hands on money.  These advisors were trained in an environment where everyone is either like that, or they "wisely" save with a management company like theirs.  They aren't meeting the people who can save on their own, like most of us on these forums. 


Similarly, I have heard that a main selling point for whole life insurance policies is that it creates a monthly bill that people will pay when they otherwise would not save that same amount.  That same amount invested monthly in VTSAX would have worked wonders but most don't have the discipline for that, but they will pay a bill.  Even though it is a terrible product it is one way to get some people to have even one nickel set aside.  I would never recommend it, but that is the same mindset as people believing they could never invest without an expensive Ed Jones holding their hand.
[/quote]

Well.... I have to agree the Financial Adviser argument to a certain degree, and my best possible example of this is Social Security. SS has been one of the most successful programs any government has ever instituted ever. It has single handedly lifted millions of seniors out of poverty over the last few generations.

Why? Because a large segment of humanity (most?) can't seem to make long term plans.

Remember that we here at MMM are oddballs. We ENJOY planning for this stuff. Most people RUN in the opposite direction when confronted with this financial stuff, especially if it leads to their perceived decrease in lifestyle.

JGS

DeniseNJ

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2789 on: January 13, 2022, 07:43:23 AM »
It's the same reason doctors will prescribe drugs instead of healthy diet and exercise--bc they know ppl will take a pill but no one will diet and exercise.

Zamboni

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2790 on: January 16, 2022, 11:49:34 AM »
^Lol, I'm such a dork that not only do I save money, I also recently signed up with a doctor who primarily works on lifestyle aspects of health. I still have a pill pusher as my primary care physician, which is useful when I am traveling to the tropics and want to take antibiotics with me just in case. But, the lifestyle guy is probably going to do more to improve my health in the long run.

So @Zamboni several things: first, and most important of which is THAT I AM TERRIBLY SORRY YOU AND YOUR SO ARE HAVING TO GO THROUGH THIS!  That can't be said enough.  This is not normal or humane behavior.   

Seriously.  You two may want to consider something that has helped us in the midst of awful situations: go out and have some fun some nights and try to forget about all of this.  I know it's hard to do that in the midst of a tragedy, but it's also the best medicine, as folks have reminded me over the years (because I'll let the stress of it get to me). 

Now, I can help as to where this is headed, as I have experience dealing with (lots of) conflicts and unreasonable situations.  Actions speak louder than words, and this started with outright fraud and seizure of things that DotL (for short) had no business taking. 

It's headed towards outright fraud and theft.  She's going to camp on the estate, control it, and drain every thing of any possible value.  It's already underway. 

The estate will continue on until she converts everything that she possibly can into cash for herself, the estate goes bankrupt, and things get seized.  Her cash problems will only hasten the speed of the theft. 

This is someone who does what she wants, not someone who cares about paperwork, laws, and rules--that much she has shown you.  I hate to tell you this, but to prepare yourself, I would prepare for maximum ugly here and start establishing those boundaries so that you can stay out of and above the drama. 

Eventually, you're likely to need hard no-contact rules.  Why let her drag your own emotional lives down, rather than shut her off for periods of time, and/or mediate it through a lawyer/trusted friend/someone else/ignore her completely, so that you can stay away from it all.  That path is going to get increasingly attractive over time. 

As I see it, there are two paths here: SO can either jump in, take over the estate, and fight it out (or, rather, employ the lawyers to do so), which would be a large emotional lift and expensive due to DotL and her inevitable shenanigans.  Or you both can walk away, let her trash it all, ignore it all as it circles the drain, but preserve more of your peace and sanity.  And nothing is worth more than peace and sanity...once you don't have it anymore. 

Anyway, I'm sorry once again and wish you nothing but the best in dealing with a truly awful situation.  There's nothing like death and money to bring out the worst in some people.  But thankfully you two have each other to get through this and stay above the fray.

Thanks again for this. We decided to go on vacation to a tropical paradise this past weekend . . . that was a great idea!

Your predictions are so spot on.

Updates about the Destroyer of the Last Will and Testament (DotLWaT!, DotLW for short):

-DotLW got so mad that Mr. Zamboni wouldn't send her money for "the bills" that she threatened no contact with him . . . a threat that of course she just can't make good on because of her continuous need to send rude texts and demand things. And then there was the whole emergence of another copy of a will wrinkle she hadn't anticipated. So she's already followed up several times since then. *Eyeroll*

-Mr. Zamboni has decided that No Contact with DotLW is the only sane strategy from his side . . . so he is not responding.

-As far as I can discern, the named executor in the only copy of a will anyone has seen beside DotLW has thrown in the towel and given the reins over to DotLW. Honestly, everyone is just quietly backing away from the mess with their hands in the air. Other sane sibling is also just saying "whatever, do what you want, but I'm not giving you money" to all demands.

-DotLW has communicated that she is going to obtain the divorce finalization paperwork from the court to negate the named sole inheritor in the will from getting anything. No idea if this is how it works or not, and no idea if DotLW has sought any legal advice.

-DotLW has sent copies of credit card receipts for what she paid for the hastily solo planned over-the-top funeral/burial. Oh, Lordy, I guess it's no surprise that she spread it out over several different credit cards even to the same funeral home. Predictions that she is in financial trouble coming true. She appears to have bought the most expensive plot at the most expensive cemetery in town. Despite the deceased belonging to a large local church for decades, she paid extra to have the service held in the chapel owned by the funeral home instead. And despite having to charge it all on various cards, she is still vowing to spend over $4K additionally for a headstone which she is picking out. According to her texts, she IS doing this and she WILL get her money back and no one better stand in her way! No one else is on board with her plan. Seriously I've purchased cars for less than this theoretical headstone.

-DotLW is whining to extended family that people are not jumping in to pay her back for her ridiculous choices.

-DotLW also sent a copy of her bank statement showing that she is paying the bills of the deceased. These include normal things like utilities on the home and absurd things such as renewing an AARP membership (Um, why?) She is paying these from her personal account, rather than an established estate bank account.

-Although DotLW once said she planned to move into the house left by the deceased, she has reversed course and now says she plans to sell it.

Update on the saga of Destroyer of the Last Will and Testament (DotLWaT):

-It seems like DotLWaT got her wish and is functioning as executor, primarily because no one else wants to do it and deal with her crap. Mr. Zamboni has made internal peace with the fact that she will take any assets that she can for herself. Both he and his sane sibling think the estate is a net loss and so he tried to offer to help with the expenses of cleaning up the home (it is hoarded), but she was super nasty in response, so he threw in the towel on helping her.

Which leads to this:

-The deceased had some sort of insurance policy that pays out a very small amount. Mr. Zamboni is the designated beneficiary. Since other accounts listed all three children of the deceased, it's possible that this tiny policy was set up before his siblings were born. So, he is the only one who can claim it. DotLWat already tried to claim it and was told by the insurance company that only Mr. Zamboni can claim it. So, she emailed him a week ago that she had already tried to claim it and they wouldn't let her, so he needs to send her a copy of both his driver's license and Social Security card so that she can claim it on behalf of the estate.

ROFL!

He responded that he would be happy to follow up directly with the company, put in the claim himself, and then send each sibling their share of the money if DotLWaT sent her the contact information for the insurance rep. Not surprisingly, she has not responded.

SwordGuy

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2791 on: January 16, 2022, 02:05:23 PM »

-The deceased had some sort of insurance policy that pays out a very small amount. Mr. Zamboni is the designated beneficiary. Since other accounts listed all three children of the deceased, it's possible that this tiny policy was set up before his siblings were born. So, he is the only one who can claim it. DotLWat already tried to claim it and was told by the insurance company that only Mr. Zamboni can claim it. So, she emailed him a week ago that she had already tried to claim it and they wouldn't let her, so he needs to send her a copy of both his driver's license and Social Security card so that she can claim it on behalf of the estate.

ROFL!

He responded that he would be happy to follow up directly with the company, put in the claim himself, and then send each sibling their share of the money if DotLWaT sent her the contact information for the insurance rep. Not surprisingly, she has not responded.

Keep those emails.  They are evidence.

Request and require the information ASAP.   Let her know that you will prosecute if she does not forward that information to you as the executor, and you have proof from her that she has that information.

This has several benefits.

1) You might get some money, which you can share with all the siblings except her.
2) You might get her put in prison.
3) And most importantly, she will be motivated to stay the hell out of your lives forever.

Sibley

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2792 on: January 16, 2022, 02:07:30 PM »
-The deceased had some sort of insurance policy that pays out a very small amount. Mr. Zamboni is the designated beneficiary. Since other accounts listed all three children of the deceased, it's possible that this tiny policy was set up before his siblings were born. So, he is the only one who can claim it. DotLWat already tried to claim it and was told by the insurance company that only Mr. Zamboni can claim it. So, she emailed him a week ago that she had already tried to claim it and they wouldn't let her, so he needs to send her a copy of both his driver's license and Social Security card so that she can claim it on behalf of the estate.

ROFL!

He responded that he would be happy to follow up directly with the company, put in the claim himself, and then send each sibling their share of the money if DotLWaT sent her the contact information for the insurance rep. Not surprisingly, she has not responded.

The insurance company may do an end run around her, regardless of what she or you do. Many (if not all, not sure) life insurance companies have a process where they periodically match up their book to a variety of compilations of deaths. It's not perfect but eventually they'll figure out their insured is dead, and then they'll try to find the beneficiary. Since you are listed as the bene, that would be you (or if you die, your estate/heir). Frankly, I'd leave this alone for a while. Do check periodically the state unclaimed property, as if the insurance company can't find you they'll escheat the amount to the state - and they'd use the last known address of the bene if they have it or of the deceased.

iluvzbeach

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2793 on: January 16, 2022, 02:56:49 PM »
If you are the sole beneficiary of the life insurance policy do not split the proceeds with her. You already feel pretty certain she’s spending estate dollars that she shouldn’t, so why would you give her any of the LI proceeds? If the deceased had wanted to change the beneficiary to include others, they would have. Split it with the other sib(s) if you want, but I wouldn’t split it with DotLWaT. It will also help to ensure she never wants to speak with you again.

DeniseNJ

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2794 on: January 18, 2022, 05:31:47 AM »
Quote
So, she emailed him a week ago that she had already tried to claim it and they wouldn't let her, so he needs to send her a copy of both his driver's license and Social Security card so that she can claim it on behalf of the estate.

Insurance benefits are not part of the estate.  They belong solely to the beneficiary, in this case the money is your husband's only. Insurance benefits don't go to pay debts from the estate or anything else.  If the three siblings are all named on a policy you should get exactly one third of the money in its entirety to the penny with nothing taken out to cover any estate costs.

 Go to https://eapps.naic.org/life-policy-locator/#/welcome to help you find out what company has the policy so he can collect his money and not have to deal with his sister at all.  That's the National Association of Insurance Commissioners.

SwordGuy

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2795 on: January 18, 2022, 05:47:56 AM »
Quote
So, she emailed him a week ago that she had already tried to claim it and they wouldn't let her, so he needs to send her a copy of both his driver's license and Social Security card so that she can claim it on behalf of the estate.

Insurance benefits are not part of the estate.  They belong solely to the beneficiary, in this case the money is your husband's only. Insurance benefits don't go to pay debts from the estate or anything else.  If the three siblings are all named on a policy you should get exactly one third of the money in its entirety to the penny with nothing taken out to cover any estate costs.

 Go to https://eapps.naic.org/life-policy-locator/#/welcome to help you find out what company has the policy so he can collect his money and not have to deal with his sister at all.  That's the National Association of Insurance Commissioners.

I believe that should read: "the amount of the benefit as specified by the policy holder".   

JoePublic3.14

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2796 on: January 18, 2022, 06:29:36 AM »
Quote
So, she emailed him a week ago that she had already tried to claim it and they wouldn't let her, so he needs to send her a copy of both his driver's license and Social Security card so that she can claim it on behalf of the estate.

Insurance benefits are not part of the estate.  They belong solely to the beneficiary, in this case the money is your husband's only. Insurance benefits don't go to pay debts from the estate or anything else.  If the three siblings are all named on a policy you should get exactly one third of the money in its entirety to the penny with nothing taken out to cover any estate costs.

 Go to https://eapps.naic.org/life-policy-locator/#/welcome to help you find out what company has the policy so he can collect his money and not have to deal with his sister at all.  That's the National Association of Insurance Commissioners.

Yeah, this. Makes sense to me to simply find out the carrier, file. Done. Makes no sense to even comment about it to anyone else.

I know family dynamics makes this weird, but man this saga is bizarre. But, thanks so much for keeping us updated! Lots of lessons and tips buried in there.

DeniseNJ

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2797 on: January 18, 2022, 07:45:50 AM »
Quote
So, she emailed him a week ago that she had already tried to claim it and they wouldn't let her, so he needs to send her a copy of both his driver's license and Social Security card so that she can claim it on behalf of the estate.

Insurance benefits are not part of the estate.  They belong solely to the beneficiary, in this case the money is your husband's only. Insurance benefits don't go to pay debts from the estate or anything else.  If the three siblings are all named on a policy you should get exactly one third of the money in its entirety to the penny with nothing taken out to cover any estate costs.

 Go to https://eapps.naic.org/life-policy-locator/#/welcome to help you find out what company has the policy so he can collect his money and not have to deal with his sister at all.  That's the National Association of Insurance Commissioners.

I believe that should read: "the amount of the benefit as specified by the policy holder".   
Yes. That's correct.  Whatever the policy says.  If it's in thirds or if each of you was left a different amount or whatever.  But you should get it all as stated, not the estate.

former player

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2798 on: January 18, 2022, 08:06:13 AM »
Quote
So, she emailed him a week ago that she had already tried to claim it and they wouldn't let her, so he needs to send her a copy of both his driver's license and Social Security card so that she can claim it on behalf of the estate.

Insurance benefits are not part of the estate.  They belong solely to the beneficiary, in this case the money is your husband's only. Insurance benefits don't go to pay debts from the estate or anything else.  If the three siblings are all named on a policy you should get exactly one third of the money in its entirety to the penny with nothing taken out to cover any estate costs.

 Go to https://eapps.naic.org/life-policy-locator/#/welcome to help you find out what company has the policy so he can collect his money and not have to deal with his sister at all.  That's the National Association of Insurance Commissioners.

I believe that should read: "the amount of the benefit as specified by the policy holder".   
Yes. That's correct.  Whatever the policy says.  If it's in thirds or if each of you was left a different amount or whatever.  But you should get it all as stated, not the estate.
Technically true, of course.  But I can see that given all the drama about this situation and that the policy was written before the younger siblings were born and never changed, I can well see that the Zambonis might decide that the most politic approach would be an equal split.

Sibley

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2799 on: January 18, 2022, 11:01:25 AM »
Quote
So, she emailed him a week ago that she had already tried to claim it and they wouldn't let her, so he needs to send her a copy of both his driver's license and Social Security card so that she can claim it on behalf of the estate.

Insurance benefits are not part of the estate.  They belong solely to the beneficiary, in this case the money is your husband's only. Insurance benefits don't go to pay debts from the estate or anything else.  If the three siblings are all named on a policy you should get exactly one third of the money in its entirety to the penny with nothing taken out to cover any estate costs.

 Go to https://eapps.naic.org/life-policy-locator/#/welcome to help you find out what company has the policy so he can collect his money and not have to deal with his sister at all.  That's the National Association of Insurance Commissioners.

I believe that should read: "the amount of the benefit as specified by the policy holder".   
Yes. That's correct.  Whatever the policy says.  If it's in thirds or if each of you was left a different amount or whatever.  But you should get it all as stated, not the estate.
Technically true, of course.  But I can see that given all the drama about this situation and that the policy was written before the younger siblings were born and never changed, I can well see that the Zambonis might decide that the most politic approach would be an equal split.

And that's fine, but it would be a personal decision made by the bene what to do with their money. Zamboni can donate it all to an animal shelter. The law doesn't care.