Author Topic: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.  (Read 1160362 times)

RetiredAt63

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2450 on: March 16, 2021, 08:11:13 AM »
Serious question:

Why do people outside of Britain pay so much attention to the British monarchy? They hold no power and do nothing of significance. I get the tabloid-celebrity obsession from the average person (a.k.a. idiots), but even otherwise intelligent people seem to hold some weird infatuation with that family.
I've heard it's partially because British schoolchildren are taught to respect the monarchy. I have a theory that the Brits also despise dislike the fact that Harry chose a non-British wife. It's as if he insulted every loyal female subject by finding every one of them unworthy. And then Megan poured petrol on the fire by saying she didn't know much about the royal family before she married into it. How dare she not know about them and their Queen!

Be fair - as an American she wouldn't even know what petrol is!

/s (as an American)

Kate Middleton thought long and hard before marrying a Royal.  Megan seems to have not done her homework.  Being a Royal close to the throne is a job. One you can't take a vacation from.

Imma

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2451 on: March 16, 2021, 08:50:02 AM »
I wouldn’t be averse to the royal family becoming obsolete after Charles (if he ever becomes king).  Royalty is an anachronism in this day and age, and the younger royals are capable of earning their keep, so why waste taxpayer money on them?  They’ve never meant anything to me beyond pretty weddings.

Don't underestimate the soft power Britain gains from them.  A state banquet with the Queen or King of England is something that appeals very strongly to the vanity of various presidents around the world and gets our PM an in with them while they are here.

Having said that, I'd be perfectly happy to be rid of them if anyone can come up with a better alternative.
It's finding an alternative which is the problem.  Either the PM becomes Head of State as well  (and there's just been an example of that going badly wrong in the USA) or a new form of elected President has to be invented which would be almost impossible to keep out of politics.

One of the benefits of a constitutional monarchy is that it fills a position of power without being able to exercise any of that power: there is no vacuum into which bad actors can insert themselves and the Prime Minister, who does exercise power, always has someone above them in the hierarchy to whom they have to answer, even if only formally.

The Church of England does much the same for the UK: it occupies a central spiritual space, preventing anyone else from taking that over either religiously or politically (see eg: Irish Catholicism, USA evangelism), and because its status is legally defined it has no need to define itself by a narrow and/or exclusionary creed, making it inclusive of anyone who wants to participate and also being able (slowly) adapt to societal change.

I dislike the idea of the monarchy as well, but for this reason a constitutional monarchy is the last bad option I can think of. The other big advantage is that a monarch has a strong long-term incentive to behave - unlike Presidents and Prime Ministers. In the worst case scenario, they are not re-elected or made to resign and look like a fool, but their behaviour does not have direct job consequences for their offspring, or for themselves for that matter. A politician can cause and problem and then leave someone else to fix it (you just have to look at Cameron to see what I mean) but the monarch will be stuck with their past mistakes for the next few decades.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2452 on: March 16, 2021, 09:07:42 AM »
For those of you who need this:

Quote
You can't change the people around you but you can change the people around you.

Sibley

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2453 on: March 16, 2021, 10:27:44 AM »
I don't care how unprepared someone was for a role, if someone is SUICIDAL and they are denied mental health treatment, that is WRONG. Full stop. No excuses. None. Nada. Zip.

So stop blaming the woman for not thinking things through. All that does is tell me something about you, and it's not good.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2454 on: March 16, 2021, 10:43:39 AM »
I don't care how unprepared someone was for a role, if someone is SUICIDAL and they are denied mental health treatment, that is WRONG. Full stop. No excuses. None. Nada. Zip.

So stop blaming the woman for not thinking things through. All that does is tell me something about you, and it's not good.
If that were true I would agree with you.  But -

1) "Thoughts of suicide" is not the same as "suicidal".  I can think rationally about potential methods of suicide without having any intention of doing anything about them.

2)  Meghan is a grown woman with large amounts of money and direct access to anyone in the world she wanted to call, including any heath care professional - who would have been under a duty of confidentiality.  I agree she was in a foreign country but she spoke the language and no-one had any power to stop her from seeing anyone she wanted or going anywhere in the world she wanted to go to.  Anyone she spoke to in the Royal Household other than a member of the family (and there is no indication she spoke to anyone in the family) was an employee that she could have either ignored or given direct orders to.

Unfortunately the interview by Oprah had so little rigour to it and so little follow up to what was said. It's possible to completely accept everything Meghan said in it and still not be certain of an objective truth.

Sibley

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2455 on: March 16, 2021, 11:27:59 AM »
I don't care how unprepared someone was for a role, if someone is SUICIDAL and they are denied mental health treatment, that is WRONG. Full stop. No excuses. None. Nada. Zip.

So stop blaming the woman for not thinking things through. All that does is tell me something about you, and it's not good.
If that were true I would agree with you.  But -

1) "Thoughts of suicide" is not the same as "suicidal".  I can think rationally about potential methods of suicide without having any intention of doing anything about them.

2)  Meghan is a grown woman with large amounts of money and direct access to anyone in the world she wanted to call, including any heath care professional - who would have been under a duty of confidentiality.  I agree she was in a foreign country but she spoke the language and no-one had any power to stop her from seeing anyone she wanted or going anywhere in the world she wanted to go to.  Anyone she spoke to in the Royal Household other than a member of the family (and there is no indication she spoke to anyone in the family) was an employee that she could have either ignored or given direct orders to.

Unfortunately the interview by Oprah had so little rigour to it and so little follow up to what was said. It's possible to completely accept everything Meghan said in it and still not be certain of an objective truth.

I suggest you do some research into the effects of mental illness on someone's life and mental/emotional capacity.

Someone who's sitting and crying while breastfeeding is not capable of standing up to much. Someone saying "no", even if they don't have actual power, could certainly be a real roadblock. I've had enough experience with people dealing with depression, anxiety, etc to know that the normal rules of what you can manage go out the window.

Sandi_k

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2456 on: March 16, 2021, 11:41:17 AM »

... no-one had any power to stop her from seeing anyone she wanted or going anywhere in the world she wanted to go to.  Anyone she spoke to in the Royal Household other than a member of the family (and there is no indication she spoke to anyone in the family) was an employee that she could have either ignored or given direct orders to.


You're wrong on two counts here:

1) She does not supervise palace staff. She has no line of authority, and no power in that chain of command.

2) The palace *took her passport* when she moved in. She could not "go anywhere in the world she wanted to go to."

Villanelle

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2457 on: March 16, 2021, 11:44:20 AM »
I don't care how unprepared someone was for a role, if someone is SUICIDAL and they are denied mental health treatment, that is WRONG. Full stop. No excuses. None. Nada. Zip.

So stop blaming the woman for not thinking things through. All that does is tell me something about you, and it's not good.

I broke down and watched the interview because it was a topic of conversation among the friend-group text string.

All of the stuff about how she was unprepared, how she didn't realize one actually curtsied to the queen in private, etc. just made me think less of Harry.  (Well, part of me was skeptical it was true, but the other part blamed Harry.)  He was the one who was part of that culture.  He knew to at least some large extent what would be expected of her.  He had the people he could ask questions of or put her in touch with. 

But somehow it is her fault?  If you invite me to a party and I show up in jeans and it turns out it was a formal even and you failed to mention that, you are far more in the wrong for not telling me than I am for not asking about the dress code. 

Villanelle

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2458 on: March 16, 2021, 11:49:08 AM »
She told her husband she was afraid to be left alone because she was afraid of what she might do.  If we are drawing some ridiculous line between "thinking rationally [????] about suicide" and "suicidal" , that seems to very clearly be the latter.  She was afraid that if she was left alone and therefore given the opportunity, she would take her own life.  That's pretty textbook suicidal, unless you think it only counts if there are pills in your mouth or a blade on your wrist.

I think they are kind of ridiculous.  I think the interview harmed them at least as much as it helped them, though I'm coming at this from someone who has payed little attention to them until now so I don't have all the context.  I think they have a fair amount of fault in just how badly things went.

But some of these comments are just horrible, unless we assume they were outright lying about several things. 

Sibley

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2459 on: March 16, 2021, 11:52:54 AM »
I don't care how unprepared someone was for a role, if someone is SUICIDAL and they are denied mental health treatment, that is WRONG. Full stop. No excuses. None. Nada. Zip.

So stop blaming the woman for not thinking things through. All that does is tell me something about you, and it's not good.

I broke down and watched the interview because it was a topic of conversation among the friend-group text string.

All of the stuff about how she was unprepared, how she didn't realize one actually curtsied to the queen in private, etc. just made me think less of Harry.  (Well, part of me was skeptical it was true, but the other part blamed Harry.)  He was the one who was part of that culture.  He knew to at least some large extent what would be expected of her.  He had the people he could ask questions of or put her in touch with. 

But somehow it is her fault?  If you invite me to a party and I show up in jeans and it turns out it was a formal even and you failed to mention that, you are far more in the wrong for not telling me than I am for not asking about the dress code.

I haven't watched the interview. I was reacting to the comments in this thread, combined with the bits and pieces I have seen or learned.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2460 on: March 16, 2021, 11:59:10 AM »

... no-one had any power to stop her from seeing anyone she wanted or going anywhere in the world she wanted to go to.  Anyone she spoke to in the Royal Household other than a member of the family (and there is no indication she spoke to anyone in the family) was an employee that she could have either ignored or given direct orders to.


You're wrong on two counts here:

1) She does not supervise palace staff. She has no line of authority, and no power in that chain of command.

2) The palace *took her passport* when she moved in. She could not "go anywhere in the world she wanted to go to."
She had authority over her own and Harry's staff and power to ignore any other staff.

We have no indication that she wanted to make use of her passport and was refused or asked for it back and was refused.

I'm not saying she didn't get herself into a difficult position, or that she didn't find herself unable to cope with it.   But she wasn't a naive 20 year old whose family arranged her marriage.  She was a high-earning 36 year old woman with a previous marriage, a previous celebrity relationship and a decent amount of personal wealth that she earned herself.  She had a loving and supportive spouse.   She had options.

I'm sorry if I misred her statements about suicide.

Sibley

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2461 on: March 16, 2021, 12:09:48 PM »

... no-one had any power to stop her from seeing anyone she wanted or going anywhere in the world she wanted to go to.  Anyone she spoke to in the Royal Household other than a member of the family (and there is no indication she spoke to anyone in the family) was an employee that she could have either ignored or given direct orders to.


You're wrong on two counts here:

1) She does not supervise palace staff. She has no line of authority, and no power in that chain of command.

2) The palace *took her passport* when she moved in. She could not "go anywhere in the world she wanted to go to."
She had authority over her own and Harry's staff and power to ignore any other staff.

We have no indication that she wanted to make use of her passport and was refused or asked for it back and was refused.

I'm not saying she didn't get herself into a difficult position, or that she didn't find herself unable to cope with it.   But she wasn't a naive 20 year old whose family arranged her marriage.  She was a high-earning 36 year old woman with a previous marriage, a previous celebrity relationship and a decent amount of personal wealth that she earned herself.  She had a loving and supportive spouse.   She had options.

I'm sorry if I misred her statements about suicide.

And mental illness is EXACTLY the kind of thing that will negate everything you just said. That is why its so terrible. Because instead of being a mature, strong person, it can make you weak and vulnerable, regardless of what the objective reality is. The fact that she had a loving and supportive spouse is probably why she's still alive. The fact that she had personal wealth is probably a big chunk of how they were able to get out of what was a toxic situation for her.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2462 on: March 16, 2021, 01:59:31 PM »

... no-one had any power to stop her from seeing anyone she wanted or going anywhere in the world she wanted to go to.  Anyone she spoke to in the Royal Household other than a member of the family (and there is no indication she spoke to anyone in the family) was an employee that she could have either ignored or given direct orders to.


You're wrong on two counts here:

1) She does not supervise palace staff. She has no line of authority, and no power in that chain of command.

2) The palace *took her passport* when she moved in. She could not "go anywhere in the world she wanted to go to."
She had authority over her own and Harry's staff and power to ignore any other staff.

We have no indication that she wanted to make use of her passport and was refused or asked for it back and was refused.

I'm not saying she didn't get herself into a difficult position, or that she didn't find herself unable to cope with it.   But she wasn't a naive 20 year old whose family arranged her marriage.  She was a high-earning 36 year old woman with a previous marriage, a previous celebrity relationship and a decent amount of personal wealth that she earned herself.  She had a loving and supportive spouse.   She had options.

I'm sorry if I misred her statements about suicide.

And mental illness is EXACTLY the kind of thing that will negate everything you just said. That is why its so terrible. Because instead of being a mature, strong person, it can make you weak and vulnerable, regardless of what the objective reality is. The fact that she had a loving and supportive spouse is probably why she's still alive. The fact that she had personal wealth is probably a big chunk of how they were able to get out of what was a toxic situation for her.
OK, I can accept that view. According to her interview with Oprah she still feels the same way about that time now as she did at the time, so I hope that doesn't mean she hasn't come out of that illness.


ExitViaTheCashRamp

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2463 on: March 16, 2021, 02:40:21 PM »
I've heard it's partially because British schoolchildren are taught to respect the monarchy. I have a theory that the Brits also despise dislike the fact that Harry chose a non-British wife. It's as if he insulted every loyal female subject by finding every one of them unworthy. And then Megan poured petrol on the fire by saying she didn't know much about the royal family before she married into it. How dare she not know about them and their Queen!

Unless there is a jubilee to celebrate or one of the turns up to open a new building, it's likely that most British children will hear little if anything about the monarchy from their schooling.  We don't have daily pledges of allegiance to the flag or anything like that.  British support for the Royal Family is largely based on our deep dislike for our politicians such that the thought of replacing the Queen with a politician is enough to make us stick with what we've got - as long as they don't muck it up.

The general reaction to Harry marrying Meghan was overwhelmingly positive.  People thought he was definitely batting above his average and most of us liked what her being of mixed race signaled about us as a modern, tolerant country.  It's just a shame that neither of them seemed to have properly read the job description in advance.

 Agree with this entirely as another British subject. The only day my school had anything regarding a Royal day was when Princess Diana visited once, one of my friends was chosen to give her the schools bunch of flowers and then he shook her hand -- I missed it as I was off school being ill :( Outside that one day - nothing. To be honest it just wouldn't be British to be fawning, flag waving and saluting in a school - people would think you were part of the national front (i.e. far right nationalists). I mean its one thing if a member of the royal family is there in front of you - but otherwise people would think you are a bit odd. The morning school routine I have seen used in TV/films of American schools if replicated here would likely result in claims of racism against the teacher.

 To be honest, the premise is a bit laughable - I mean the linage is chock full of foreign princesses and in the case of the Queen, her husband is a foreigner.

 For replacing the royals, I can't see the point. Yes the system is anachronistic and out of place in modern society but it is also really cheap - something like under £40million... and they all pay tax on all their earnings  (even the Queen). The net cost is truly tiny compared to anything that might replace them. Worse still for me is WHO might replace them - President Blair ? No thank you..

markbike528CBX

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2464 on: March 16, 2021, 02:44:53 PM »
Worse still for me is WHO might replace them - President Blair ? No thank you..
We have lots of ex-Presidents that we could loan give to you :-)

Imma

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2465 on: March 16, 2021, 03:36:09 PM »

... no-one had any power to stop her from seeing anyone she wanted or going anywhere in the world she wanted to go to.  Anyone she spoke to in the Royal Household other than a member of the family (and there is no indication she spoke to anyone in the family) was an employee that she could have either ignored or given direct orders to.


You're wrong on two counts here:

1) She does not supervise palace staff. She has no line of authority, and no power in that chain of command.

2) The palace *took her passport* when she moved in. She could not "go anywhere in the world she wanted to go to."
She had authority over her own and Harry's staff and power to ignore any other staff.

We have no indication that she wanted to make use of her passport and was refused or asked for it back and was refused.

I'm not saying she didn't get herself into a difficult position, or that she didn't find herself unable to cope with it.   But she wasn't a naive 20 year old whose family arranged her marriage.  She was a high-earning 36 year old woman with a previous marriage, a previous celebrity relationship and a decent amount of personal wealth that she earned herself.  She had a loving and supportive spouse.   She had options.

I'm sorry if I misred her statements about suicide.

And mental illness is EXACTLY the kind of thing that will negate everything you just said. That is why its so terrible. Because instead of being a mature, strong person, it can make you weak and vulnerable, regardless of what the objective reality is. The fact that she had a loving and supportive spouse is probably why she's still alive. The fact that she had personal wealth is probably a big chunk of how they were able to get out of what was a toxic situation for her.
OK, I can accept that view. According to her interview with Oprah she still feels the same way about that time now as she did at the time, so I hope that doesn't mean she hasn't come out of that illness.

I think both views can exist at the same time. If their situation was this bad for her mental health, then it's right that they got out. They have every right to do that & no one should stay in a situation like that.

In the interview Meghan sounded very naive about her future role. It's clear she was not prepared and that she did not receive proper guidance from her husband. At the same time, that doesn't mean that somehow she "deserved" or "caused" the mental health struggles that she later experienced. I can totally imagine that a very clumsy palace jobsworth may have told her that they don't offer their counselling services to non-employees and in the situation she was in, that may have affected her a lot. I'm sure the palace is full of stiff upper lip aristocratic apparatchiks. As you said, at that point in time she was very vulnerable. I hope her husband was able direct her to people who could help her. Since he founded a mental health charity and is open about the fact that he needed years of therapy to get over his mother's death, I would assume he was able to put his wife in touch with professionals.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2466 on: March 16, 2021, 09:07:37 PM »
I've heard it's partially because British schoolchildren are taught to respect the monarchy. I have a theory that the Brits also despise dislike the fact that Harry chose a non-British wife. It's as if he insulted every loyal female subject by finding every one of them unworthy. And then Megan poured petrol on the fire by saying she didn't know much about the royal family before she married into it. How dare she not know about them and their Queen!

Unless there is a jubilee to celebrate or one of the turns up to open a new building, it's likely that most British children will hear little if anything about the monarchy from their schooling.  We don't have daily pledges of allegiance to the flag or anything like that.  British support for the Royal Family is largely based on our deep dislike for our politicians such that the thought of replacing the Queen with a politician is enough to make us stick with what we've got - as long as they don't muck it up.

The general reaction to Harry marrying Meghan was overwhelmingly positive.  People thought he was definitely batting above his average and most of us liked what her being of mixed race signaled about us as a modern, tolerant country.  It's just a shame that neither of them seemed to have properly read the job description in advance.

 Agree with this entirely as another British subject. The only day my school had anything regarding a Royal day was when Princess Diana visited once, one of my friends was chosen to give her the schools bunch of flowers and then he shook her hand -- I missed it as I was off school being ill :( Outside that one day - nothing. To be honest it just wouldn't be British to be fawning, flag waving and saluting in a school - people would think you were part of the national front (i.e. far right nationalists). I mean its one thing if a member of the royal family is there in front of you - but otherwise people would think you are a bit odd. The morning school routine I have seen used in TV/films of American schools if replicated here would likely result in claims of racism against the teacher.

 To be honest, the premise is a bit laughable - I mean the linage is chock full of foreign princesses and in the case of the Queen, her husband is a foreigner.

 For replacing the royals, I can't see the point. Yes the system is anachronistic and out of place in modern society but it is also really cheap - something like under £40million... and they all pay tax on all their earnings  (even the Queen). The net cost is truly tiny compared to anything that might replace them. Worse still for me is WHO might replace them - President Blair ? No thank you..
I wonder if it's age specific. I heard this from an older Brit. Then when Sharon Osbourne defended Piers Morgan's right to have an opinion, she expressed something similar. Of course, I hear she's in a ton of hot water now for defending PM, so who the hell knows?

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2467 on: March 16, 2021, 09:50:28 PM »
For replacing the royals, ...  Worse still for me is WHO might replace them - President Blair ? No thank you..

Ok, here's an inheritance story.   I promise.

I quit my job to take a job at a major international software company to work in their office in the London area.  They had called me and invented a job for me.  I did it so my wife could affordably complete her doctoral research in the various libraries there.    I told my boss that I really enjoyed working at the company and with him, but I needed to support my wife and this was the only way I had found to do it.   And that I didn't really want to go to work for the big megacorporation, but needs must, and I hoped I would be welcomed back in a couple of years.

The next morning I was called into the big bosses office and they offered to park me in a hotel, covering room and board and a rental car, for a month.  "We wanted you to take some time to do some writing for us, and we don't much care where you do it."    I stayed and my wife, daughter and I went off to London for the month. 

This happened back when Tony Blair and his wife first occupied #10 Downing Street.  They inherited Humphrey, a truly friendly cat who hung out in the waiting room and greeted folks therein.   This cat had been there when Thatcher and later Major were the PM.   (I promised an inheritance story!!!)   

Then a newspaper reporter noticed the cat was gone and they had also heard that Blair's wife hated cats.   So they wrote a glowing editorial about it in the London Times that extolled the virtue of this wonderfully friendly cat and mentioned that Mrs. Blair didn't like cats.  They closed by hoping that Humphrey was well and not tossed out into the alleys of London.

The London Times had never received more letters on any other topic in its entire history.    People were very concerned about this cat.  We heard the story and, being cat lovers, started following the story.

Now I have to digress a bit.   About the same time some information started to come out about how Mr. Blair might have been a bit misleading with some public statements he had made about some large sums of money that he ought not to have been able to spend on his campaign.   I don't recall the exact quote, but basically, it sounded like he had flatly denied it.   However, as the information started to come out, people realized that his words had two possible meanings, the one that sounded like a denial and another, possibly more truthful one in which he had done it.

In an attempt to minimize the public relations damage, Mrs. Blair posed in a photo with a cat to show she liked cats.  This isn't the photo I saw (it was in a black and white newspaper), but her facial expression is exactly the same.   Sort of a grimace frozen in place trying to be a smile.  Let's just say we were absolutely not convinced she likes cats.

Now, nothing makes people more suspicious about what you say than catching someone doing that.   It's poisonous for maintaining trust in any way, shape or fashion.   People don't like to be played for fools.   It's important to understand this digression to get what happens next.

The photo didn't assuage public opinion at all.   

Blair was answering a few questions from the press before left on a helicopter.  The last question he was asked was "Where's the cat?"   His answer was short and snippy, "The cat is in a quiet country place."   With that, Blair turned and started to walk away towards the helicopter.

The reporter called out very loudly, "By 'quiet country place', do you mean a cemetery?"     

Boy, howdy!   Blair looked like he had been hit with a brick bat.   He actually staggered under the weight of that question!

The very next night, a television cameraman was taken in an unmarked van with no windows to someone's carport.  He was rushed out of the van into a house whereupon he was presented with "the cat" to video, in order to prove that the cat was alive and well.

The next thing to happen was an editorial in the London Times wondering whether the cat really was Humphrey or whether it was an imposter.    Perhaps Thatcher or Major could be called in to verify the cat's identity?

I don't know whether there was more or not after that.  That's about the time we left the country and pre-internet it was harder to get detailed foreign news.

I still love this story.

The PM of Britain is one of the most powerful people in the world and he couldn't even get rid of a cat in his house without this much grief from his constituents.    I think our republics would be ever so much better if our legislators and presidents learned that lesson to their core in their first months in office.

And not all inheritance stories are about relatives, eh?

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2468 on: March 17, 2021, 05:46:04 AM »
To give you an idea of how big a story it was about the cat, almost 20 years later they still report on whether the cat at 10 Downing Street gets to stay or not when a new PM moves in.

https://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/larry-the-cat-staying-put-in-10-downing-street

Cats rule!

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2469 on: March 17, 2021, 08:45:19 AM »
The cat might look even more uncomfortable than Mrs. Blair.

ExitViaTheCashRamp

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2470 on: March 17, 2021, 08:51:55 AM »
A few moments before the Brexit deal was announced, he stormed into action live on TV:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqF4q9mjW-E

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2471 on: March 17, 2021, 09:47:24 AM »
A few moments before the Brexit deal was announced, he stormed into action live on TV:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqF4q9mjW-E
Dangit, now I'm trying to stifle a giggle at work.  Curse you! :P

MoStash

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2472 on: March 18, 2021, 07:27:26 AM »
You would think that if there’s no money and no real estate to fight over there won’t be any inheritance drama, right?

My grandmother had four sons and my mother. When she passed she split her money (<50K) evenly among the five and left my mother all of her belongings.

Mom took her rocking chair and told the rest of the family to tag what they wanted. There were lots of us grandkids in our 20s so all of the furniture and household items were useful. I wanted the old wooden footstool the kids used while baking with Grandma, and a tiny spoon with a miner on the handle that had fascinated me as a child. One of those “earliest memories” things.

My uncle’s wife claimed the whole souvenir spoon collection, and decreed that I couldn’t take the one I wanted because it was part of the collection. Do you remember those tacky wooden racks that held tacky souvenir spoons? That’s what I’m talking about. Zero value and not a set per se.

So I took the one spoon and the footstool. For the rest of her life my uncle’s wife resented me for taking that spoon! She brought it up yearly for almost 30 years. People will create drama over the smallest things.




Smokystache

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2473 on: March 18, 2021, 07:42:25 AM »
You would think that if there’s no money and no real estate to fight over there won’t be any inheritance drama, right?

My grandmother had four sons and my mother. When she passed she split her money (<50K) evenly among the five and left my mother all of her belongings.

Mom took her rocking chair and told the rest of the family to tag what they wanted. There were lots of us grandkids in our 20s so all of the furniture and household items were useful. I wanted the old wooden footstool the kids used while baking with Grandma, and a tiny spoon with a miner on the handle that had fascinated me as a child. One of those “earliest memories” things.

My uncle’s wife claimed the whole souvenir spoon collection, and decreed that I couldn’t take the one I wanted because it was part of the collection. Do you remember those tacky wooden racks that held tacky souvenir spoons? That’s what I’m talking about. Zero value and not a set per se.

So I took the one spoon and the footstool. For the rest of her life my uncle’s wife resented me for taking that spoon! She brought it up yearly for almost 30 years. People will create drama over the smallest things.

Is your uncle's wife dead? If not, you could buy this - leave it outside to age for a few weeks and then give it to her and look like the bigger person (if you want to play that game): https://www.bonanza.com/items/like/21719741/Whitehorse-Yukon-Gold-Miner-Figural-Souvenir-Spoon

Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2474 on: March 19, 2021, 05:35:51 PM »
You would think that if there’s no money and no real estate to fight over there won’t be any inheritance drama, right?

My grandmother had four sons and my mother. When she passed she split her money (<50K) evenly among the five and left my mother all of her belongings.

Mom took her rocking chair and told the rest of the family to tag what they wanted. There were lots of us grandkids in our 20s so all of the furniture and household items were useful. I wanted the old wooden footstool the kids used while baking with Grandma, and a tiny spoon with a miner on the handle that had fascinated me as a child. One of those “earliest memories” things.

My uncle’s wife claimed the whole souvenir spoon collection, and decreed that I couldn’t take the one I wanted because it was part of the collection. Do you remember those tacky wooden racks that held tacky souvenir spoons? That’s what I’m talking about. Zero value and not a set per se.

So I took the one spoon and the footstool. For the rest of her life my uncle’s wife resented me for taking that spoon! She brought it up yearly for almost 30 years. People will create drama over the smallest things.

Is your uncle's wife dead? If not, you could buy this - leave it outside to age for a few weeks and then give it to her and look like the bigger person (if you want to play that game): https://www.bonanza.com/items/like/21719741/Whitehorse-Yukon-Gold-Miner-Figural-Souvenir-Spoon
That's awesome!

MoStash

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2475 on: March 19, 2021, 09:14:24 PM »

Is your uncle's wife dead? If not, you could buy this - leave it outside to age for a few weeks and then give it to her and look like the bigger person (if you want to play that game): https://www.bonanza.com/items/like/21719741/Whitehorse-Yukon-Gold-Miner-Figural-Souvenir-Spoon
Yep, that looks like a much shinier version of the same spoon! And if you scroll down in that link you can see more tacky souvenir spoons. But she passed away in 2019, and I'm sure the spoons went in the trash. They really have no value.

partgypsy

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2476 on: March 21, 2021, 12:04:42 AM »
That story reminds me of my ex's grandfather, when he died, or maybe it was after the grandmother died, there were two daughters. The grandfather has a whole row of colored bottles in the barn, and ex had fond memories of working with grandfather with the light coming in through the bottles. But the aunt claimed everything in the barn and said that the bottle "collection" was hers, would not let him take 1 or 2 as it would break up the set. Again nothing valuable just being petty for the point of it. Oh yeah she wouldn't let him take any of the tools, ones he actually used with his grandfather. And the grandmother and his mom agreed as he was the first born grandson he should get the tools. But after the grandmother died and the family was helping clear it out, the tools were found to been stolen at some point, probably by locals.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2021, 12:08:44 AM by partgypsy »

TomTX

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2477 on: March 21, 2021, 03:56:00 PM »
Presumably Greedy Aunt was one of the "locals".

partgypsy

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2478 on: March 22, 2021, 06:58:42 AM »
I doubt it. She was rich and had no use for tools, while where the grandparents lived was generally economically depressed. Just hope whoever they ended up with, used and treasures them.

iris lily

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2479 on: March 25, 2021, 02:08:28 PM »
DH’s family inheritance drama is entering its 3rd year of wrangling.The estate still isn’t closed.  Can’t be too specific here, but recent events had the judge rule against DH and his team. Which oddly enough means more money in their pockets because ....they are not being sensible!  They are playing the game of “daddy wanted this to happen. “ Me, as someone who has no real oar in the water just opinions, I say to myself well gosh if that’s what daddy wanted why didn’t daddy make that happen legally Instead of leaving a big mess? Yes he wanted to leave an estate that was unequally divided up among his children but Didn’t make that apparent and abundantly clear through legal channels.

The latest issue is daddy who died gave a substantial amount of objects worth $$$ to one sibling. He gave these objects away more than 10 years before his death. One sibling challenged daddy‘s giving away of the stuff and the judge sided with that sibling.

It is a rare situation when the words “the judge went against us”  really mean an economic win.


« Last Edit: March 25, 2021, 02:13:45 PM by iris lily »

talltexan

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2480 on: March 26, 2021, 06:10:42 AM »
I'm sorry you're having to live through this weirdness. Of course, economic benefit and relational benefit are different.

I am not blessed with a big family, but I'd hope the estate planning could be designed toward the goal of keeping the family relationships intact rather as a priority ahead of keeping assets intact.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2481 on: March 26, 2021, 06:52:19 AM »
I'm sorry you're having to live through this weirdness. Of course, economic benefit and relational benefit are different.

I am not blessed with a big family, but I'd hope the estate planning could be designed toward the goal of keeping the family relationships intact rather as a priority ahead of keeping assets intact.
It's really a matter of game theory, and maybe even a Prisoner's Dilemma.  If everyone goes along, they all end up happy (ish).  But one person can get greedy, and in the process ruin it for everyone, including themselves.

iris lily

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2482 on: March 26, 2021, 08:09:01 AM »
I'm sorry you're having to live through this weirdness. Of course, economic benefit and relational benefit are different.

I am not blessed with a big family, but I'd hope the estate planning could be designed toward the goal of keeping the family relationships intact rather as a priority ahead of keeping assets intact.
It's really a matter of game theory, and maybe even a Prisoner's Dilemma.  If everyone goes along, they all end up happy (ish).  But one person can get greedy, and in the process ruin it for everyone, including themselves.

I dont know that I would  call the challenging sibling in this family drama “greedy.” That sib  is demanding dead dad  give equal economic treatment to all siblings.  Is that greedy?

But yeah, this outlier sibling is paying a lot for an attorney, so yeah, is losing ground there.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2021, 11:08:07 AM by iris lily »

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2483 on: March 26, 2021, 08:21:53 AM »
I'm sorry you're having to live through this weirdness. Of course, economic benefit and relational benefit are different.

I am not blessed with a big family, but I'd hope the estate planning could be designed toward the goal of keeping the family relationships intact rather as a priority ahead of keeping assets intact.
It's really a matter of game theory, and maybe even a Prisoner's Dilemma.  If everyone goes along, they all end up happy (ish).  But one person can get greedy, and in the process ruin it for everyone, including themselves.

I dont know that I would  call the challenging sibling in this family drama “greedy.” She demands that dead dad treat her equally economically. Is that greedy?

But yeah, this outlier sibling is paying a lot for an attorney, so yeah, is losing ground there.

Equal isn't the same thing as fair.

Anyone who has more than one kid knows that each is unique and different, and has different needs. Later in life, different kids will also provide different levels of support to their parents. At the extreme end you get the stereotypical moocher who never moves out and who gets parented or enabled until the parents die, or else the stereotypical overachiever who takes on all the elder-care responsibilities while other siblings skate.

A lot of people use an inheritance to do more than one thing: to set up a disabled or needy child, to compensate a child who provided more in terms of support, or even to balance out giving from earlier in life (kid A got college expenses paid but kid B did not). Some use it to punish a child who for whatever reason doesn't live up to their expectations.

iris lily

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2484 on: March 26, 2021, 11:07:06 AM »
I'm sorry you're having to live through this weirdness. Of course, economic benefit and relational benefit are different.

I am not blessed with a big family, but I'd hope the estate planning could be designed toward the goal of keeping the family relationships intact rather as a priority ahead of keeping assets intact.
It's really a matter of game theory, and maybe even a Prisoner's Dilemma.  If everyone goes along, they all end up happy (ish).  But one person can get greedy, and in the process ruin it for everyone, including themselves.

I dont know that I would  call the challenging sibling in this family drama “greedy.” She demands that dead dad treat her equally economically. Is that greedy?

But yeah, this outlier sibling is paying a lot for an attorney, so yeah, is losing ground there.

Equal isn't the same thing as fair.

Anyone who has more than one kid knows that each is unique and different, and has different needs. Later in life, different kids will also provide different levels of support to their parents. At the extreme end you get the stereotypical moocher who never moves out and who gets parented or enabled until the parents die, or else the stereotypical overachiever who takes on all the elder-care responsibilities while other siblings skate.

A lot of people use an inheritance to do more than one thing: to set up a disabled or needy child, to compensate a child who provided more in terms of support, or even to balance out giving from earlier in life (kid A got college expenses paid but kid B did not). Some use it to punish a child who for whatever reason doesn't live up to their expectations.
All of them, each and every sibling as well as the dead dad, are/were operating from emotion.
Which is why when the judge awards DH more stuff, it is a “loss.”

Doh people! Use your brains! But not my family, not my monkeys.

DadJokes

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2485 on: April 01, 2021, 08:46:27 AM »
I'm sorry you're having to live through this weirdness. Of course, economic benefit and relational benefit are different.

I am not blessed with a big family, but I'd hope the estate planning could be designed toward the goal of keeping the family relationships intact rather as a priority ahead of keeping assets intact.
It's really a matter of game theory, and maybe even a Prisoner's Dilemma.  If everyone goes along, they all end up happy (ish).  But one person can get greedy, and in the process ruin it for everyone, including themselves.

I dont know that I would  call the challenging sibling in this family drama “greedy.” That sib  is demanding dead dad  give equal economic treatment to all siblings.  Is that greedy?

But yeah, this outlier sibling is paying a lot for an attorney, so yeah, is losing ground there.

If you are gifted $10k but are not happy about it bc the person next to you is gifted $15k, and you decide to pursue legal action to ensure that you both get the same amount, is that greedy on your part? Yes!

Expecting anything from an estate is greedy, because you didn't earn that money. In this case dad earned the money/items/whatever and is free to give them out however he pleases.

Plina

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2486 on: April 01, 2021, 09:38:05 AM »
I'm sorry you're having to live through this weirdness. Of course, economic benefit and relational benefit are different.

I am not blessed with a big family, but I'd hope the estate planning could be designed toward the goal of keeping the family relationships intact rather as a priority ahead of keeping assets intact.
It's really a matter of game theory, and maybe even a Prisoner's Dilemma.  If everyone goes along, they all end up happy (ish).  But one person can get greedy, and in the process ruin it for everyone, including themselves.

I dont know that I would  call the challenging sibling in this family drama “greedy.” That sib  is demanding dead dad  give equal economic treatment to all siblings.  Is that greedy?

But yeah, this outlier sibling is paying a lot for an attorney, so yeah, is losing ground there.

If you are gifted $10k but are not happy about it bc the person next to you is gifted $15k, and you decide to pursue legal action to ensure that you both get the same amount, is that greedy on your part? Yes!

Expecting anything from an estate is greedy, because you didn't earn that money. In this case dad earned the money/items/whatever and is free to give them out however he pleases.

Actually, it is dependent on the legal system if a father is allowed to do what he wants with money after death. Here, half of your estate goes to your children and have to be divided in equal slots. That is if you are not married to your childrens mother because in that case she inherits all and the kids gets their part after she is dead. The other half you can do what you want with. So if you want to decide what to do with your money, spend it before your death. Oh, and you can’t gift it before your immediate death to your favourite kid because then he/she has to return it to the estate.

iris lily

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2487 on: April 02, 2021, 06:39:03 AM »
I'm sorry you're having to live through this weirdness. Of course, economic benefit and relational benefit are different.

I am not blessed with a big family, but I'd hope the estate planning could be designed toward the goal of keeping the family relationships intact rather as a priority ahead of keeping assets intact.
It's really a matter of game theory, and maybe even a Prisoner's Dilemma.  If everyone goes along, they all end up happy (ish).  But one person can get greedy, and in the process ruin it for everyone, including themselves.

I dont know that I would  call the challenging sibling in this family drama “greedy.” That sib  is demanding dead dad  give equal economic treatment to all siblings.  Is that greedy?

But yeah, this outlier sibling is paying a lot for an attorney, so yeah, is losing ground there.

If you are gifted $10k but are not happy about it bc the person next to you is gifted $15k, and you decide to pursue legal action to ensure that you both get the same amount, is that greedy on your part? Yes!

Expecting anything from an estate is greedy, because you didn't earn that money. In this case dad earned the money/items/whatever and is free to give them out however he pleases.

Actually, it is dependent on the legal system if a father is allowed to do what he wants with money after death. Here, half of your estate goes to your children and have to be divided in equal slots. That is if you are not married to your childrens mother because in that case she inherits all and the kids gets their part after she is dead. The other half you can do what you want with. So if you want to decide what to do with your money, spend it before your death. Oh, and you can’t gift it before your immediate death to your favourite kid because then he/she has to return it to the estate.

Where is “here?”

Plina

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2488 on: April 03, 2021, 05:28:22 AM »
I'm sorry you're having to live through this weirdness. Of course, economic benefit and relational benefit are different.

I am not blessed with a big family, but I'd hope the estate planning could be designed toward the goal of keeping the family relationships intact rather as a priority ahead of keeping assets intact.
It's really a matter of game theory, and maybe even a Prisoner's Dilemma.  If everyone goes along, they all end up happy (ish).  But one person can get greedy, and in the process ruin it for everyone, including themselves.

I dont know that I would  call the challenging sibling in this family drama “greedy.” That sib  is demanding dead dad  give equal economic treatment to all siblings.  Is that greedy?

But yeah, this outlier sibling is paying a lot for an attorney, so yeah, is losing ground there.

If you are gifted $10k but are not happy about it bc the person next to you is gifted $15k, and you decide to pursue legal action to ensure that you both get the same amount, is that greedy on your part? Yes!

Expecting anything from an estate is greedy, because you didn't earn that money. In this case dad earned the money/items/whatever and is free to give them out however he pleases.

Actually, it is dependent on the legal system if a father is allowed to do what he wants with money after death. Here, half of your estate goes to your children and have to be divided in equal slots. That is if you are not married to your childrens mother because in that case she inherits all and the kids gets their part after she is dead. The other half you can do what you want with. So if you want to decide what to do with your money, spend it before your death. Oh, and you can’t gift it before your immediate death to your favourite kid because then he/she has to return it to the estate.

Where is “here?”

Here is Sweden. In Finland, you have to fulfill certain provisions to disinherit your children. So getting pissed of at your kids is not enough for them to loose their inheritance.

gaja

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2489 on: April 03, 2021, 11:17:23 AM »
I'm sorry you're having to live through this weirdness. Of course, economic benefit and relational benefit are different.

I am not blessed with a big family, but I'd hope the estate planning could be designed toward the goal of keeping the family relationships intact rather as a priority ahead of keeping assets intact.
It's really a matter of game theory, and maybe even a Prisoner's Dilemma.  If everyone goes along, they all end up happy (ish).  But one person can get greedy, and in the process ruin it for everyone, including themselves.

I dont know that I would  call the challenging sibling in this family drama “greedy.” That sib  is demanding dead dad  give equal economic treatment to all siblings.  Is that greedy?

But yeah, this outlier sibling is paying a lot for an attorney, so yeah, is losing ground there.

If you are gifted $10k but are not happy about it bc the person next to you is gifted $15k, and you decide to pursue legal action to ensure that you both get the same amount, is that greedy on your part? Yes!

Expecting anything from an estate is greedy, because you didn't earn that money. In this case dad earned the money/items/whatever and is free to give them out however he pleases.

Actually, it is dependent on the legal system if a father is allowed to do what he wants with money after death. Here, half of your estate goes to your children and have to be divided in equal slots. That is if you are not married to your childrens mother because in that case she inherits all and the kids gets their part after she is dead. The other half you can do what you want with. So if you want to decide what to do with your money, spend it before your death. Oh, and you can’t gift it before your immediate death to your favourite kid because then he/she has to return it to the estate.

Where is “here?”

Here is Sweden. In Finland, you have to fulfill certain provisions to disinherit your children. So getting pissed of at your kids is not enough for them to loose their inheritance.

In Norway, there is a "duty inheritance" of $150 000 for the spouse and each kid (roughly speaking, with some caveats). If there is money left over after that, you can do with it as you please.

racquetcat

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2490 on: April 05, 2021, 07:47:25 AM »
Hej, hej @Plina !

I spent a semester in Sweden during college and I absolutely loved the culture, landscape, and pizza with kebab on it!

I especially loved the culture of lagom and the freedom to access land, both are things I wish we had more of in the US. I really wish I had tried to find a job in Sweden after I graduated from University, but oh well.

Anyway, do you expect Swedish inheritance laws are set up that way since a lot of people have long term domestic partnerships and kids without ever getting officially married?

lemanfan

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2491 on: April 05, 2021, 10:44:26 AM »
Anyway, do you expect Swedish inheritance laws are set up that way since a lot of people have long term domestic partnerships and kids without ever getting officially married?

Another swede here filling in, although not a lawyer:

People in Sweden who live like that - not formally married but living like they were - are sometimes doing it without knowing the consequences.  The author Stieg Larsson ("The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo" and many others) and his partner did that... so that even that they had lived like they were married for over 30 years, his brothers ended up with the rights to the very big estate instead of his life partner.

I have friends who have stayed "not married" but instead written a legal contract to regulate as much as possible as they want it, as they feel it was easier to get it "right" according to their wishes than getting the default situation that a marriage would give.   This kind of contract, "samboavtal", is often encouraged by advisors for those who are not married if they have a joint home or kids together.

Edit to add:  Much of that contract stuff I mentioned is for separation ("divorce"), not inheritance.  Then you of course also need to look into the wills and inheritance laws.  And at least one couple in my circle of friends got married after the Stieg Larson debacle.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 11:09:58 AM by lemanfan »

AMandM

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2492 on: April 05, 2021, 07:56:46 PM »
Fascinating.  I wonder whether Swedes make different decisions about supporting their children financially than people do who live in places where you can leave different amounts to different children.

Did that happen to Larsen's estate because he didn't have a will? Or did he have a will naming his partner but that will was illegal under Swedish law?

Does any Swede have any leeway in how to leave money? What happens if I have no husband, no children, no siblings, and my parents are both dead?


Plina

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2493 on: April 05, 2021, 11:18:24 PM »
Hej, hej @Plina !

I spent a semester in Sweden during college and I absolutely loved the culture, landscape, and pizza with kebab on it!

I especially loved the culture of lagom and the freedom to access land, both are things I wish we had more of in the US. I really wish I had tried to find a job in Sweden after I graduated from University, but oh well.

Anyway, do you expect Swedish inheritance laws are set up that way since a lot of people have long term domestic partnerships and kids without ever getting officially married?

It seems to be a way to protect the inheritance of the family and going back to the 13 th century. The right of children to inherit seems to have been subject to some changes during the years. In 1848 both male and female children got the equal right to inherit. In 1917 the children born out of wedlock got the right to inherit their mothers and 1969 for fathers due to the blood relations. The current system is a mix of the right of the children to their inheritance and the protection of the spouse. There was an investigation in the beginning of the 80ies if to allow a free choice regarding the inheritance as most people don’t have a need of an inheritance  today but it was seen as a way to create fairness among all children of the deceased. There was a fear that the children in previous relationsships would be left out. I didn’t actually know this before but it seems to not have anything to do with our domestic partnerships.

Actually you can leave different amount to your children, it is only half of your estate that have to be equally distributed among all your children. If you have given large gifts to one of your children it can be accounted towards the inheritance. Maybe, it is just me but I don’t know anyone that support their adult children. The father of a friend gave a monthly stipend to both of his children as a way to distribute the inheritance before his death but neither of them needed it for their living.

If you don’t have children and a spouse, your parents inherit. If they are dead your siblings inherit and in case they are dead their children. Thereafter, you have to have a will if you don’t want the money to go to the state owned public estate trust. The trust donates money to different causes. But if you don’t have kids or a spouse you can do what you want with your money. I don’t have neither and I have currently chosen to not have a will. That will change the day my parents are gone.

It happened because Stieg Larsen didn’t have a will. He could have named his partner and she would have inherited everything. The law is made to protect your children and married spouse, not the rest of the relatives.

lemanfan

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2494 on: April 06, 2021, 01:45:12 AM »
Fascinating.  I wonder whether Swedes make different decisions about supporting their children financially than people do who live in places where you can leave different amounts to different children.

That is a really good question.  And my answer is that I don't really know, for possibly two reasons.

The first is that altough Sweden is a very open society (Example: anyone can make an anonymous call to the tax office and find out the personal ID-number (SSN equivalent) and the taxed income of anyone else), many people simply don't talk about money.  Not in the workplace and not among friends.  You might say how much you paid for your car or your house, but you don't talk about income or wealth.

The second reason I think is that due to structural differences, many people simply don't have a very big estate.  Even the top earners make less money than in the USA, and we're taxed higher.  Many people also live quite long, spending their money as time passes and few people get a life-changing windfall upon the death of a relative.  Inheritance is therefore not really a widespread way to support your kids.

I'm closing in on 50 years of age, meaning that my parents, and the parents of most of my friends are still alive in their 70-ies. I've yet to hear of any big disputes about inheritance among my friends or acquaintances.  As the results of the real estate boom in the last few years, I'm sure I will hear of someone with a house worth millions (in SEK, not necessarily in USD) which will create a conflict, but nothing yet in my surroundings.

Up until 2004 Sweden had taxes on inheritance and gifts above a certain threshold and that created some work regarding wills and estates, but the main focus I saw was more often to create a situation where the children or other recipients would not have to sell the land, company or other holding that was passed down in order to pay these taxes. 

One of my grandfathers had a small plot of forest (70 hectares, 150 acres) and back in the 1980-ies he made a plan that took over a decade to execute in order to gift this plot to his four kids without a too high tax burden.  The removal of the gift- and estate taxes made this kind of planning redundant.

Edit: I see that I use "inheritance tax" as a synonym for "estate tax".  Sorry for any confusion, I'm not sure they mean the same thing in the US. :)
« Last Edit: April 06, 2021, 01:50:39 AM by lemanfan »

merula

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2495 on: April 06, 2021, 08:08:00 AM »
Edit: I see that I use "inheritance tax" as a synonym for "estate tax".  Sorry for any confusion, I'm not sure they mean the same thing in the US. :)

They do mean the same thing here. :)

As someone who lives in a place heavily settled by Swedish immigrants, I'm always fascinated by random stuff that seems to originate from the Old Country. The US on the whole is a "talk about money" place, if not directly then indirectly, but Minnesota is not AT ALL.

Imma

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2496 on: April 06, 2021, 09:39:30 AM »
Hej, hej @Plina !

I spent a semester in Sweden during college and I absolutely loved the culture, landscape, and pizza with kebab on it!

I especially loved the culture of lagom and the freedom to access land, both are things I wish we had more of in the US. I really wish I had tried to find a job in Sweden after I graduated from University, but oh well.

Anyway, do you expect Swedish inheritance laws are set up that way since a lot of people have long term domestic partnerships and kids without ever getting officially married?

It seems to be a way to protect the inheritance of the family and going back to the 13 th century. The right of children to inherit seems to have been subject to some changes during the years. In 1848 both male and female children got the equal right to inherit. In 1917 the children born out of wedlock got the right to inherit their mothers and 1969 for fathers due to the blood relations. The current system is a mix of the right of the children to their inheritance and the protection of the spouse. There was an investigation in the beginning of the 80ies if to allow a free choice regarding the inheritance as most people don’t have a need of an inheritance  today but it was seen as a way to create fairness among all children of the deceased. There was a fear that the children in previous relationsships would be left out. I didn’t actually know this before but it seems to not have anything to do with our domestic partnerships.

Actually you can leave different amount to your children, it is only half of your estate that have to be equally distributed among all your children. If you have given large gifts to one of your children it can be accounted towards the inheritance. Maybe, it is just me but I don’t know anyone that support their adult children. The father of a friend gave a monthly stipend to both of his children as a way to distribute the inheritance before his death but neither of them needed it for their living.

If you don’t have children and a spouse, your parents inherit. If they are dead your siblings inherit and in case they are dead their children. Thereafter, you have to have a will if you don’t want the money to go to the state owned public estate trust. The trust donates money to different causes. But if you don’t have kids or a spouse you can do what you want with your money. I don’t have neither and I have currently chosen to not have a will. That will change the day my parents are gone.

It happened because Stieg Larsen didn’t have a will. He could have named his partner and she would have inherited everything. The law is made to protect your children and married spouse, not the rest of the relatives.

I think it's pretty common across Europe that it's mandatory to leave money to your kids or you have to leave equal amounts etc. An inheritance is historically seen as a birthright, and would usually consist of (a share in) a farm or farmland or maybe a townhouse - and of course, lots of people never left inheritances at all. Those rules were designed for the wealthy. In some juridictions I think you can disinherit your children but if you fight that decision, a judge will decide if the reason you did that was 'good enough'.

In my country, if you do not leave a will, your children will inherit equal parts in your inheritance. You can change that in your will, but your child is always entitled to half of what they would have inherited if you did not leave a will (their "legitimate portion" or "child's share") but they can only inherit money, not goods. So you can make sure one child inherits valuable goods like an art collection, the other child is only entitled to a portion of the value but cannot claim the paintings itself.

Plina

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2497 on: April 06, 2021, 11:30:02 AM »
Fascinating.  I wonder whether Swedes make different decisions about supporting their children financially than people do who live in places where you can leave different amounts to different children.

That is a really good question.  And my answer is that I don't really know, for possibly two reasons.

The first is that altough Sweden is a very open society (Example: anyone can make an anonymous call to the tax office and find out the personal ID-number (SSN equivalent) and the taxed income of anyone else), many people simply don't talk about money.  Not in the workplace and not among friends.  You might say how much you paid for your car or your house, but you don't talk about income or wealth.

The second reason I think is that due to structural differences, many people simply don't have a very big estate.  Even the top earners make less money than in the USA, and we're taxed higher.  Many people also live quite long, spending their money as time passes and few people get a life-changing windfall upon the death of a relative.  Inheritance is therefore not really a widespread way to support your kids.



In government workplaces the salaries are open info so everybody knows how much your colleagues earn. I have always had a pretty good view of how much my colleagues earn even when in private companies and I have no problem telling someone how much I earn. My boss told me what my colleagues earn when we talked about my salary. I actually knew it beforehand because I had looked it up so I knew I would end up ok.

We are also pretty open about salaries  in the family and my parent have a pretty good picture about my financial situation even if they don’t know the actual numbers. I have known my parents financial situation since I was a kid. I also talk about finances with friends so salaries are no secret although the wealth numbers are. I guess it depends a lot on how open you are about your salaries and financial situation on how much info you get.

Hula Hoop

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2498 on: April 06, 2021, 02:44:25 PM »
Hej, hej @Plina !

I spent a semester in Sweden during college and I absolutely loved the culture, landscape, and pizza with kebab on it!

I especially loved the culture of lagom and the freedom to access land, both are things I wish we had more of in the US. I really wish I had tried to find a job in Sweden after I graduated from University, but oh well.

Anyway, do you expect Swedish inheritance laws are set up that way since a lot of people have long term domestic partnerships and kids without ever getting officially married?

It seems to be a way to protect the inheritance of the family and going back to the 13 th century. The right of children to inherit seems to have been subject to some changes during the years. In 1848 both male and female children got the equal right to inherit. In 1917 the children born out of wedlock got the right to inherit their mothers and 1969 for fathers due to the blood relations. The current system is a mix of the right of the children to their inheritance and the protection of the spouse. There was an investigation in the beginning of the 80ies if to allow a free choice regarding the inheritance as most people don’t have a need of an inheritance  today but it was seen as a way to create fairness among all children of the deceased. There was a fear that the children in previous relationsships would be left out. I didn’t actually know this before but it seems to not have anything to do with our domestic partnerships.

Actually you can leave different amount to your children, it is only half of your estate that have to be equally distributed among all your children. If you have given large gifts to one of your children it can be accounted towards the inheritance. Maybe, it is just me but I don’t know anyone that support their adult children. The father of a friend gave a monthly stipend to both of his children as a way to distribute the inheritance before his death but neither of them needed it for their living.

If you don’t have children and a spouse, your parents inherit. If they are dead your siblings inherit and in case they are dead their children. Thereafter, you have to have a will if you don’t want the money to go to the state owned public estate trust. The trust donates money to different causes. But if you don’t have kids or a spouse you can do what you want with your money. I don’t have neither and I have currently chosen to not have a will. That will change the day my parents are gone.

It happened because Stieg Larsen didn’t have a will. He could have named his partner and she would have inherited everything. The law is made to protect your children and married spouse, not the rest of the relatives.

I think it's pretty common across Europe that it's mandatory to leave money to your kids or you have to leave equal amounts etc. An inheritance is historically seen as a birthright, and would usually consist of (a share in) a farm or farmland or maybe a townhouse - and of course, lots of people never left inheritances at all. Those rules were designed for the wealthy. In some juridictions I think you can disinherit your children but if you fight that decision, a judge will decide if the reason you did that was 'good enough'.

In my country, if you do not leave a will, your children will inherit equal parts in your inheritance. You can change that in your will, but your child is always entitled to half of what they would have inherited if you did not leave a will (their "legitimate portion" or "child's share") but they can only inherit money, not goods. So you can make sure one child inherits valuable goods like an art collection, the other child is only entitled to a portion of the value but cannot claim the paintings itself.

It's the same here in Italy so I guess this is a European thing. It can lead to some terrible outcomes.  The worst story I heard was many years ago when i first moved here and taught English on the side to make some money. One of my students was a very wealthy, old Italian man who actually spoke great English (which he learned by reading the Economist) but just wanted to chat for practice.  He was a semi-closeted gay man with a long term partner that not everyone knew about.  Anyway, his long lost daughter had come out of the woodwork a few years before we met.  At first, he was delighted. Apparently he had had a girlfriend during his university days and she had become pregnant without his knowledge.  When he met his daughter he spent a lot of time with her, they did DNA tests to confirm paternity and he acknowledged paternity legally.  As soon as he did this, she disappeared.  He was absolutely heartbroken as it was clear that she'd only sought out her father in order to get him to acknowledge paternity and inherit his entire (very sizable) estate when he died.  The saddest thing is that gay marriage didn't exist here in Italy (still doesn't) so his long term partner would have no rights to his estate whereas his rotten daughter would.  There was absolutely nothing he could do about this.

Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2499 on: April 06, 2021, 02:50:42 PM »
It's the same here in Italy so I guess this is a European thing. It can lead to some terrible outcomes.  The worst story I heard was many years ago when i first moved here and taught English on the side to make some money. One of my students was a very wealthy, old Italian man who actually spoke great English (which he learned by reading the Economist) but just wanted to chat for practice.  He was a semi-closeted gay man with a long term partner that not everyone knew about.  Anyway, his long lost daughter had come out of the woodwork a few years before we met.  At first, he was delighted. Apparently he had had a girlfriend during his university days and she had become pregnant without his knowledge.  When he met his daughter he spent a lot of time with her, they did DNA tests to confirm paternity and he acknowledged paternity legally.  As soon as he did this, she disappeared.  He was absolutely heartbroken as it was clear that she'd only sought out her father in order to get him to acknowledge paternity and inherit his entire (very sizable) estate when he died.  The saddest thing is that gay marriage didn't exist here in Italy (still doesn't) so his long term partner would have no rights to his estate whereas his rotten daughter would. There was absolutely nothing he could do about this.
Hmmm, in his [fine Italian] shoes, I'd have spent money on my SO in any way possible. Lavish gifts, travel, jewelry, gold coins...