Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.

[partgypsy]

Brother has no will, but I'm thinking the default inheritance would be it would go to his kids. I guess mom and sis assume they would continue to live in house because? I don't know no where else to live. I guess the issue is, I don't want my mom or sister to move in with me, so I guess figuring out some kind of back up plan is not terrible? My brother however has told me that he plans after his youngest starts regular college or finishes college (next 2-4 years), he is going to downsize by selling house and renting. Which means they will need alternate housing sooner than later. He's told this to them too. Unless his plan has changed since last time he talked about it (last summer).

[marion10]

Your mother and your sister do no have to live with you if they are not in your brother's house. They can find their own housing/

[Sugaree]

Your mother and your sister do no have to live with you if they are not in your brother's house. They can find their own housing/

This. 

My uncle is currently in the process of trying to sponsor his girlfriend/fiance and her two kids' visas to move here from central America.  My mother is somehow concerned that if he dies that she will become responsible for this woman and her kids.  I'm like that's not how that works. 

[mm1970]

In addition to @Imma's excellent explanation, there are additional factors at play. The rise of airbnb takes property out of circulation. Ditto for the board-and-care industry. Sure, they're still providing housing for people who need it, but it ain't cheap.

Next, stricter rent control shrinks available housing in several ways. Nothing new gets built, because it doesn't pencil out. My FIL owned a cute 10-unit apartment building in Berkeley. It was all studios and one-bedrooms, so it was relatively affordable. As the Landlord fees and paperwork became more onerous, he simply stopped renting out units. Once their longest-term tenant died, he sold the building. You know the new landlord jacked up the rental to cover their higher costs. Very recently, a friend's father died, leaving her his pre-prop 13, paid-for house in a desirable part of San Francisco. The rent control laws are so pro-tenant that she is afraid and refuses to rent it out, just as her father did when he moved into a fancy Senior Living complex a couple of years ago. It costs her very little to own, so she merely checks on it regularly and spends the night there when it's convenient, but she has her own house in the suburbs. That's seven bedrooms for one person.

Then there are investors who buy and hold. Lots of them scooped up houses during the crash and are just sitting on them. Most of those properties have doubled or more in value since, so when they do sell, they're not affordable any more either. Thing is, these buyers believe their properties will continue to appreciate at this rate, so not many of them are selling.

Finally: NIMBY-ism plays a role. In my area, developers are building expensive "Stack & Pack" housing near transit, in part because the state is telling them to. People get their knickers in a twist about how greedy the City is and about how much "Things Have Changed". Then they complain that their kids can't afford to live in the town they grew up in, boo-fucking-hoo. Funny, as these buildings come on line*, so far, every one of them is an improvement over what was there before and they fill up fast.

*Lots of projects were approved but not built during the Great Recession, because they couldn't get financing. It was comparatively cheap and certainly easier to just renew their approvals until the economy recovered, so that's what they did. Now they're building and people are screaming that it's too much all at once. If they paid just a bit of attention to local civics (not politics), they wouldn't be so fucking clueless.

Excellent explanation and analysis.  Bravo!

[SwordGuy]

Your mother and your sister do no have to live with you if they are not in your brother's house. They can find their own housing/

This. 

My uncle is currently in the process of trying to sponsor his girlfriend/fiance and her two kids' visas to move here from central America.  My mother is somehow concerned that if he dies that she will become responsible for this woman and her kids.  I'm like that's not how that works.

That depends on the country they are moving to and the process used to get their approval to immigrate.

I've read stories that some Canadians **are** on the hook for providing for some immigrants they sponsor.

[scottish]

Your mother and your sister do no have to live with you if they are not in your brother's house. They can find their own housing/

This. 

My uncle is currently in the process of trying to sponsor his girlfriend/fiance and her two kids' visas to move here from central America.  My mother is somehow concerned that if he dies that she will become responsible for this woman and her kids.  I'm like that's not how that works.

That depends on the country they are moving to and the process used to get their approval to immigrate.

I've read stories that some Canadians **are** on the hook for providing for some immigrants they sponsor.

As they/we should be...

When you sponsor a relative to become a permanent resident of Canada, you must:

meet set income guidelines
agree in writing to give financial support to your relative and any other eligible relatives coming with them:
beginning on the date they become a permanent resident
for up to 20 years (depending on their age and how you’re related)
The person you sponsor must sign an agreement saying they will make the effort to support themselves. This includes sponsored dependent children 18 or older. Dependent children under 19 don’t have to sign this agreement.

[Villanelle]

Your mother and your sister do no have to live with you if they are not in your brother's house. They can find their own housing/

This. 

My uncle is currently in the process of trying to sponsor his girlfriend/fiance and her two kids' visas to move here from central America.  My mother is somehow concerned that if he dies that she will become responsible for this woman and her kids.  I'm like that's not how that works.

That depends on the country they are moving to and the process used to get their approval to immigrate.

I've read stories that some Canadians **are** on the hook for providing for some immigrants they sponsor.

But that would be being on the hook for immigrants someone *else* sponsors, no?  Uncle sponsors, dies, and then his sister would become responsible (or fears she would).  Seems to me like that would be akin to inheriting someone else'd debts, debts which you didn't sign for or agree to. 

[Paul der Krake]

Depends on how the form was filled. There are ways to show "family support" when people live under the same roof. It's co.plicated, but unless someone signed a document there is no implied expectation of support. The form number is I-864, if you're curious.

We filed that form years ago, my wife is technically still on the hook for me.

[partgypsy]

Your mother and your sister do no have to live with you if they are not in your brother's house. They can find their own housing/

the problem is I'm not going to let my mother and or sister become homeless. I don't think I could live with myself. That said, they are not really taking responsibility for their lives. For one they both smoke and refuse to quit. They both don't take care of their health in other ways. I know I couldn't accept my sister being on the streets, but I know I would also feel resentment because they are not doing what they need to do to be healthy, responsible adults. There is this thing called depression. Also anxiety. They both have something going on where regular life seems to overwhelm them. The only good thing was after my brother died, my mother lost around 30 pounds because she wasn't eating as much (she and my brother lived together and they would have meals together). It was actually healthy for her to lose weight but she needs to also take care of herself. I don't really understand them. I work full time, have my two kids more than half time, also work on my house, have friends and hobbies, but they can't seem to get anything done (mother moved in September; still hasn't unpacked or gone through 90% of stuff she moved). I don't know how they organize their time but its seems -disorganized. My brother and also niece live pretty structured lives because they either work full time, or both are in school and work. But my sister and Mom are on their own orbits. 

[Dancin'Dog]

Your mother and your sister do no have to live with you if they are not in your brother's house. They can find their own housing/

the problem is I'm not going to let my mother and or sister become homeless. I don't think I could live with myself. That said, they are not really taking responsibility for their lives. For one they both smoke and refuse to quit. They both don't take care of their health in other ways. I know I couldn't accept my sister being on the streets, but I know I would also feel resentment because they are not doing what they need to do to be healthy, responsible adults. There is this thing called depression. Also anxiety. They both have something going on where regular life seems to overwhelm them. The only good thing was after my brother died, my mother lost around 30 pounds because she wasn't eating as much (she and my brother lived together and they would have meals together). It was actually healthy for her to lose weight but she needs to also take care of herself. I don't really understand them. I work full time, have my two kids more than half time, also work on my house, have friends and hobbies, but they can't seem to get anything done (mother moved in September; still hasn't unpacked or gone through 90% of stuff she moved). I don't know how they organize their time but its seems -disorganized. My brother and also niece live pretty structured lives because they either work full time, or both are in school and work. But my sister and Mom are on their own orbits.

It seems like you need to start an "Are you an enabler?" thread.  :( 

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Your mother and your sister do no have to live with you if they are not in your brother's house. They can find their own housing/

the problem is I'm not going to let my mother and or sister become homeless. I don't think I could live with myself. That said, they are not really taking responsibility for their lives. For one they both smoke and refuse to quit. They both don't take care of their health in other ways. I know I couldn't accept my sister being on the streets, but I know I would also feel resentment because they are not doing what they need to do to be healthy, responsible adults. There is this thing called depression. Also anxiety. They both have something going on where regular life seems to overwhelm them. The only good thing was after my brother died, my mother lost around 30 pounds because she wasn't eating as much (she and my brother lived together and they would have meals together). It was actually healthy for her to lose weight but she needs to also take care of herself. I don't really understand them. I work full time, have my two kids more than half time, also work on my house, have friends and hobbies, but they can't seem to get anything done (mother moved in September; still hasn't unpacked or gone through 90% of stuff she moved). I don't know how they organize their time but its seems -disorganized. My brother and also niece live pretty structured lives because they either work full time, or both are in school and work. But my sister and Mom are on their own orbits.

It seems like you need to start an "Are you an enabler?" thread.  :(

That won't meet her needs. What might work better is a thread about how not to become an enabler. It's not an open and shut thing like many people think. It is very difficult to deal with a terrorist who has a high value hostage.

[SunnyDays]

Wanted to get people's feedback what people thought of this. My brother is a single Dad (one kid launched, one kid entering college, still living there because going to community college). He  owns a house (has a mortgage) and my mother and my sister moved in with him. My mother is paying for groceries, my sister other then help feed the dog, some chores does nothing to contribute. They are now both nagging my brother to get life insurance, so that if he died at the least they could pay his house off. He doesn't want to do it because according to insurance, the money has to come out of his account. Mom and sis say of course they are going to pay for the insurance, but then it's a pain to make sure they keep up with it.
The other thing I think is weird, if he gets insurance shouldn't the recipients be say his daughter, rather than his non-dependent mother and sister? My sister esp says they will be "up a creek" " no where to live" if something happens to brother, but at the same time I'm thinking, that's not his problem?

What good what it do your mother/sister to be able to pay his house off, even assuming his kids would allow that?  If they are making next to no financial contribution to their living situation now, how would they afford property taxes, insurance, utilities, up-keep etc?  Plus, if he died without a will, I believe that his children would end up getting the house, and unless they're prepared to pay for the housing costs and let the relatives live there for free, it will be sold anyway.

Your mom and sister need to be told that in the event of your brother's death, they will need to support themselves, so they had better have a plan in place for that.  Surely one of them, if not both, have some kind of income?  Pension, disability, actual jobs?  And if your brother has no will (why not?) he is setting his whole family up for misery should he die before he downsizes. 

In any event, you are not responsible for 2 adults.  If I were you, I would make sure they knew now what I was prepared to contribute to their living situation (if anything).  If they are simply sponging off your brother because he allows it, I would contribute precious little.

[Villanelle]

You can't want anything more for someone than they want it themselves.  And that includes them not being homeless.

I would insist on 100% taking over their finances, and in exchange for that I would guarantee them a studio apartment to share.  But if they weren't willing to accept my terms, then clearly that means they aren't that concerned, in which case I'd wish them luck.  Clearly, they aren't that desperate for help if they aren't willing to accept it on the terms it is offered.  Which is fine. 

[TheGrimSqueaker]

You can't want anything more for someone than they want it themselves.  And that includes them not being homeless.

I think I may have to stencil that across my ass. Particularly since my darling daughter prefers homelessness over an honest life.

[zolotiyeruki]

The way I've heard it is "you can't care about someone else's problems more than they do"

[SwordGuy]

The way I've heard it is "you can't care about someone else's problems more than they do"

More accurately, "Don't care about someone else's problems more than they do."

[Goldielocks]

Your mother and your sister do no have to live with you if they are not in your brother's house. They can find their own housing/

This. 

My uncle is currently in the process of trying to sponsor his girlfriend/fiance and her two kids' visas to move here from central America.  My mother is somehow concerned that if he dies that she will become responsible for this woman and her kids.  I'm like that's not how that works.

That depends on the country they are moving to and the process used to get their approval to immigrate.

I've read stories that some Canadians **are** on the hook for providing for some immigrants they sponsor.

Absolutely correct.  This includes things using the sponsor's income when applying for student loans.

But the mother is not the sponsor, the husband is.  So if she does not sign anything, she is not responsible.  The sponsor will need to show enough assets to qualify, and that is partly so that if he dies before a couple of years, they will be provided for.

[mm1970]

You can't want anything more for someone than they want it themselves.  And that includes them not being homeless.

I think I may have to stencil that across my ass. Particularly since my darling daughter prefers homelessness over an honest life.

Ah this makes me sad, remembering some of what you've been through there.

[Sibley]

You can't want anything more for someone than they want it themselves.  And that includes them not being homeless.

I think I may have to stencil that across my ass. Particularly since my darling daughter prefers homelessness over an honest life.

Life is the best teacher. You did your best. Now, she has to figure things out for herself.

[auntie_betty]

The way I've heard it is "you can't care about someone else's problems more than they do"

More accurately, "Don't care about someone else's problems more than they do."

Or, more pithily:

Not my circus. Not my monkeys.

[ducky19]

The way I've heard it is "you can't care about someone else's problems more than they do"

More accurately, "Don't care about someone else's problems more than they do."

Or, more pithily:

Not my circus. Not my monkeys.

Ha! I always say, "not my rodeo, I'm just a clown".

[NeverTooLate]

I have really been pushing my mom to write a will because I am afraid we will end up in this thread as embarrassing stories.  My parents are eventually getting a divorce and us children (three of us) don't really expect anything from my dad but at the minimum my mom will end up likely leaving two houses.  The problem is one of the houses my sister lives in, rent free, and not paying property taxes or anything like that.  This has already been the situation for 7 years and could easily be the case for 10-30 more years (essentially however long my mom lives).  Houses similar to that one rent for about $1400 a month.  Plus my sister half finishes projects while also not having the money for repairs so it definitely is in worse condition than when she moved in.  At this point her free rent alone has far outpaced any kind of financial help me and the other sister got.

So if my mom leaves the houses and enough cash then yes my sister could afford to buy out my and my sister's stake.  But if it is only houses then essentially we would have to kick her out or just give up a huge chunk of our inheritance.  I don't feel as if my mom owes us anything and if she spent everything I would be fine but honestly I wouldn't be cool without not getting a share while my sister gets a very substantial inheritance. 

It took me awhile to figure out a career and I am doing okay but definitely not in a high paying field.  Half my salary goes to retirement but I can't see any scenario where I could easily say no to money (and the other sister has always worked jobs that doesn't pay great so she definitely will need something for retirement) - because you never know when you need money for medical issues.

I keep asking my mom to figure out what she wants to have happen - and then make sure everyone knows - so there is no unpleasant surprises that ends up causing rifts.  The whole thing is just incredibly frustrating because although I love my sister and she is a great person in a lot of ways I don't think she realizes how much money my mom could be earning in returns if she invested that house money.

[Dave1442397]

But if it is only houses then essentially we would have to kick her out or just give up a huge chunk of our inheritance.

Or you could just sell the house, split the proceeds, and let your sister buy/rent a smaller place that she can actually afford to live in.

My neighbor went through something like this when her mother died. Her brother was living with their mother, and the mother's will said that the brother would be allowed to live in the house as long as he wanted. Three years later, my neighbor found out that her brother hadn't been paying property taxes (approx $700/mo), hadn't done any maintenance, and was about to lose electricity for non-payment of utility bills. Also, the township was going to auction off the tax lien.

She had to pay all the back taxes and utilities, get him out of the house, clear out all her mother's possessions, paint the whole interior, and put the house up for sale. She said it was the worst thing her mother could have done with the house, and they were lucky not to lose it. Her brother is in a one-bedroom apartment that he can afford, and everything turned out fine in the end, but only after a lot of stress and hassle that could have been avoided.

[kina]

If you could move past the financial inequality, you might avoid a whole lot of stress by getting your mother to leave the house FreeloadingSis is in to her, as her share of the estate, and the remainder to be divided between you and other sister.

That way, you would not be responsible for paying taxes or upkeep. It becomes FreeloadingSis's responsibility and hers alone. She's already received quite a bit of her 'inheritance' in advance over the years (this assumes you are giving us the complete story and she hasn't been an unpaid servant for your mother for all this time).

It saves you from possible years of trying to 1)get her out while she further runs down the place 2)have her buy you out, or 3)evict her.

[Kris]

If you could move past the financial inequality, you might avoid a whole lot of stress by getting your mother to leave the house FreeloadingSis is in to her, as her share of the estate, and the remainder to be divided between you and other sister.

That way, you would not be responsible for paying taxes or upkeep. It becomes FreeloadingSis's responsibility and hers alone. She's already received quite a bit of her 'inheritance' in advance over the years (this assumes you are giving us the complete story and she hasn't been an unpaid servant for your mother for all this time).

It saves you from possible years of trying to 1)get her out while she further runs down the place 2)have her buy you out, or 3)evict her.

This was my first thought, too. It is what I would probably do.

Also consider that if she is letting the place go to hell, if you decide to get her out and then sell, you’ll be in the position of having to fix it up before putting it on the market. More stress and more money spent.

[kina]

If you could move past the financial inequality, you might avoid a whole lot of stress by getting your mother to leave the house FreeloadingSis is in to her, as her share of the estate, and the remainder to be divided between you and other sister.

That way, you would not be responsible for paying taxes or upkeep. It becomes FreeloadingSis's responsibility and hers alone. She's already received quite a bit of her 'inheritance' in advance over the years (this assumes you are giving us the complete story and she hasn't been an unpaid servant for your mother for all this time).

It saves you from possible years of trying to 1)get her out while she further runs down the place 2)have her buy you out, or 3)evict her.

This was my first thought, too. It is what I would probably do.

Also consider that if she is letting the place go to hell, if you decide to get her out and then sell, you’ll be in the position of having to fix it up before putting it on the market. More stress and more money spent.

exactly.

[Siebrie]

This family inheritance story has just come to my attention:
My Father has a Half-Sister, who was at one time married to a Scientist. This Scientist was very charming and famous, and even in a government advisory body of high standing. The couple had 3 children together and was very well off. They got divorced, because the Scientist was sleeping around (well, not really around, he took the ladies home to the marital bed). The children always blamed the divorce on their Mother, and even though they lived with her, their relationship never recovered. There was a Stepfather who helped raise them, and loved them, but they rejected him, harshly. When the Father (eta: the Scientist) died, all 3 children inherited a lovely amount.

My Father's Sister has always leaned towards that half-side of the family, mainly because that's where the money is. To her, somehow, 'wealth' equals 'better'.

It now turns out (eta: 50 years later) that that wealth was gathered through bribes! Large corporations at the time paid the Scientist large sums to influence the government advisory body! I wonder how that inheritance feels now....

[Dicey]

This family inheritance story has just come to my attention:
My Father has a Half-Sister, who was at one time married to a Scientist. This Scientist was very charming and famous, and even in a government advisory body of high standing. The couple had 3 children together and was very well off. They got divorced, because the Scientist was sleeping around (well, not really around, he took the ladies home to the marital bed). The children always blamed the divorce on their Mother, and even though they lived with her, their relationship never recovered. There was a Stepfather who helped raise them, and loved them, but they rejected him, harshly. When the Father died, all 3 children inherited a lovely amount.

My Father's Sister has always leaned towards that half-side of the family, mainly because that's where the money is. To her, somehow, 'wealth' equals 'better'.

It now turns out that that wealth was gathered through bribes! Large corporations at the time paid the Scientist large sums to influence the government advisory body! I wonder how that inheritance feels now....

I'm confused. Who is the "Father" here? The Stepdad or the Scientist? Was this discovery about the Scientist made posthumously?

[Ze Stash]

A Coworker told a story at lunch on Friday which made me think of this thread so here goes:

He is a lawyer and was approached by a neighbour how one would go about refusing an inheritance. Said neighbour has 2 sister. One of them was doing very well career-wise and financially (or so it seemed), but lost her job about 4 months ago when her company downsized. At the same time their mother required more care at home, as she fell seriously ill. The sister offered to move in with her to assist in taking care of her while figuring out her next career moves. The mother got gradually worse and in the final month was hospitalized and then died about 2 weeks ago. As the mother lived quite far away and it all happened quite fast, the neighbour and the 2nd sister only visited their mother when she was hospitalized, so did not actually witness their sister and mother living together.

When they saw their mothers house for the first time since sister 1 moved in, they realized why she hadn't asked them to come by sooner. It turned out that sister 1 had had a meltdown because of her jobloss and used their mothers credit cards / name to go on a shopping spree. The whole house was full of delivery boxes. Clothes, electronics, appliances, collectibles, anything that could be bought online. Most of the packages still unopened. And a new BMW in the driveway. All of it bought in the name of the mother. Luckily they were able to revoke the contracts on some of the big ticket items such as the car, but they weren't able to return most of the crap she had bought online as they couldn't prove that it was in fact not mom who had bought all this stuff. So now they're left with a bunch of stuff no one needs and huge credit card debt, all in a time which is already difficult enough.

[Sibley]

A Coworker told a story at lunch on Friday which made me think of this thread so here goes:

He is a lawyer and was approached by a neighbour how one would go about refusing an inheritance. Said neighbour has 2 sister. One of them was doing very well career-wise and financially (or so it seemed), but lost her job about 4 months ago when her company downsized. At the same time their mother required more care at home, as she fell seriously ill. The sister offered to move in with her to assist in taking care of her while figuring out her next career moves. The mother got gradually worse and in the final month was hospitalized and then died about 2 weeks ago. As the mother lived quite far away and it all happened quite fast, the neighbour and the 2nd sister only visited their mother when she was hospitalized, so did not actually witness their sister and mother living together.

When they saw their mothers house for the first time since sister 1 moved in, they realized why she hadn't asked them to come by sooner. It turned out that sister 1 had had a meltdown because of her jobloss and used their mothers credit cards / name to go on a shopping spree. The whole house was full of delivery boxes. Clothes, electronics, appliances, collectibles, anything that could be bought online. Most of the packages still unopened. And a new BMW in the driveway. All of it bought in the name of the mother. Luckily they were able to revoke the contracts on some of the big ticket items such as the car, but they weren't able to return most of the crap she had bought online as they couldn't prove that it was in fact not mom who had bought all this stuff. So now they're left with a bunch of stuff no one needs and huge credit card debt, all in a time which is already difficult enough.

For the stuff that was bought online, does it matter who bought it? Have invoice/email/paperwork, initiate return, mail back. Tons of annoyance factor, but in theory you've got the sister who went off the deep end right there, put her to work. Just make sure to supervise her. Guessing it wouldn't work for everything, but even if half of it could be returned, that would help.

[Just Joe]

What happens to credit card debt when a person dies? I understand that a car, boat or house would be repo'd but what about $25K of consumer debt spent on TVs, clothes, and outings?

[merula]

What happens to credit card debt when a person dies? I understand that a car, boat or house would be repo'd but what about $25K of consumer debt spent on TVs, clothes, and outings?

They can go after the estate, but if there's no estate there's no recourse. However, that does not prevent shady debt collectors from calling next-of-kin and claiming they're responsible to pay the deceased's debts.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

What happens to credit card debt when a person dies? I understand that a car, boat or house would be repo'd but what about $25K of consumer debt spent on TVs, clothes, and outings?

The estate owns the debt under most circumstances, but there are exceptions. Anyone else whose name is on the credit card is still on the hook. Same goes for debt where there's a co-signer, or for a lease where the parties are jointly and severally responsible for the rent payments.

In a community property state, the surviving spouse is often on the hook for debt run up during the marriage, even if the debt or credit card is in the deceased spouse's name.

[SwordGuy]

What happens to credit card debt when a person dies? I understand that a car, boat or house would be repo'd but what about $25K of consumer debt spent on TVs, clothes, and outings?

The estate owns the debt under most circumstances, but there are exceptions. Anyone else whose name is on the credit card is still on the hook. Same goes for debt where there's a co-signer, or for a lease where the parties are jointly and severally responsible for the rent payments.

In a community property state, the surviving spouse is often on the hook for debt run up during the marriage, even if the debt or credit card is in the deceased spouse's name.

My aunt remarried later in life.  Apparently they didn't completely merge their finances.

When her new husband went into the hospital she called the various credit card companies that her husband had pre-existing accounts with.    They refused to talk to her because she wasn't on the accounts and had nothing to do with it.

After her husband passed away, they wanted to talk to her about her repaying the cards.
"Hey, you remember when you said I had nothing to do with those cards?  Well, I've got nothing to do with them."  Basically she just told them to pound sand.

[Sugaree]

What happens to credit card debt when a person dies? I understand that a car, boat or house would be repo'd but what about $25K of consumer debt spent on TVs, clothes, and outings?

They can go after the estate, but if there's no estate there's no recourse. However, that does not prevent shady debt collectors from calling next-of-kin and claiming they're responsible to pay the deceased's debts.

Watching my dad go through this with my grandparents' estate when I was 17 is probably the biggest factor in my not even applying for a credit card until I was well into my twenties.  Not even for the free pizza/t-shirt/frisbee/whatever that was being offered for applications on my university campus.

Luckily, my dad knew what was up and told them to go after the (non-existent) estate.

[jinga nation]

What happens to credit card debt when a person dies? I understand that a car, boat or house would be repo'd but what about $25K of consumer debt spent on TVs, clothes, and outings?

They can go after the estate, but if there's no estate there's no recourse. However, that does not prevent shady debt collectors from calling next-of-kin and claiming they're responsible to pay the deceased's debts.

Watching my dad go through this with my grandparents' estate when I was 17 is probably the biggest factor in my not even applying for a credit card until I was well into my twenties.  Not even for the free pizza/t-shirt/frisbee/whatever that was being offered for applications on my university campus.

Luckily, my dad knew what was up and told them to go after the (non-existent) estate.

My father and grandfather and my uncles always said that nothing's really free, there's always a catch.
When I went to college, I wouldn't sign up for CC offers with a "free" catch with a $X application fee. Then there was Discover, offering zero freebies, but also $0 application fee. My uncle told me to sign up for Discover to start building my credit. Then there was an Amex Blue student card which I opened, similar T&Cs. I still have those two cards open, 22 years later, I don't use them, but they are my oldest and help keep credit score in the 800s.

[Sugaree]

What happens to credit card debt when a person dies? I understand that a car, boat or house would be repo'd but what about $25K of consumer debt spent on TVs, clothes, and outings?

They can go after the estate, but if there's no estate there's no recourse. However, that does not prevent shady debt collectors from calling next-of-kin and claiming they're responsible to pay the deceased's debts.

Watching my dad go through this with my grandparents' estate when I was 17 is probably the biggest factor in my not even applying for a credit card until I was well into my twenties.  Not even for the free pizza/t-shirt/frisbee/whatever that was being offered for applications on my university campus.

Luckily, my dad knew what was up and told them to go after the (non-existent) estate.

My father and grandfather and my uncles always said that nothing's really free, there's always a catch.
When I went to college, I wouldn't sign up for CC offers with a "free" catch with a $X application fee. Then there was Discover, offering zero freebies, but also $0 application fee. My uncle told me to sign up for Discover to start building my credit. Then there was an Amex Blue student card which I opened, similar T&Cs. I still have those two cards open, 22 years later, I don't use them, but they are my oldest and help keep credit score in the 800s.

I don't recall any of these cards having an application fee, but then again I didn't listen to their spiel either.  They would set booths up right outside the campus bookstore on move-in day and try to get people to sign up.  I'm not sure if they had some way of getting an immediate approval so that you could take your brand new card into the bookstore and buy books with it or not.  I knew plenty of people who fell for it and racked up thousands in debt (and another who managed to put nearly 4 years of college tuition and books on CCs before filing bankruptcy three weeks after graduation). 

[DadJokes]

What happens to credit card debt when a person dies? I understand that a car, boat or house would be repo'd but what about $25K of consumer debt spent on TVs, clothes, and outings?

They can go after the estate, but if there's no estate there's no recourse. However, that does not prevent shady debt collectors from calling next-of-kin and claiming they're responsible to pay the deceased's debts.

Watching my dad go through this with my grandparents' estate when I was 17 is probably the biggest factor in my not even applying for a credit card until I was well into my twenties.  Not even for the free pizza/t-shirt/frisbee/whatever that was being offered for applications on my university campus.

Luckily, my dad knew what was up and told them to go after the (non-existent) estate.

My father and grandfather and my uncles always said that nothing's really free, there's always a catch.
When I went to college, I wouldn't sign up for CC offers with a "free" catch with a $X application fee. Then there was Discover, offering zero freebies, but also $0 application fee. My uncle told me to sign up for Discover to start building my credit. Then there was an Amex Blue student card which I opened, similar T&Cs. I still have those two cards open, 22 years later, I don't use them, but they are my oldest and help keep credit score in the 800s.

I opened two credit cards with no fees in college. I really wish I had kept them, but I drank the Dave Ramsey kool-aid five or so years ago and cancelled both of them.

Now my credit history is only a couple years old. However, I haven't had any issues with my 760 credit score.

[Capsu78]

"They would set booths up right outside the campus bookstore on move-in day and try to get people to sign up."

Yes, that was a big difference from college up until the early '80's...  I can't recall seeing any CC companies during my days at good old State.  My only CC was my fathers Exxon card so I could get home and hope dear old Dad had a little money for soney in his wallet!  I hated being a poor college student, but as I drove off to the real world after graduation my father told me "...At least $0 gets posted in black ink on the ledger, everything below $0 is written in red."

[iris lily]

"They would set booths up right outside the campus bookstore on move-in day and try to get people to sign up."

Yes, that was a big difference from college up until the early '80's...  I can't recall seeing any CC companies during my days at good old State.  My only CC was my fathers Exxon card so I could get home and hope dear old Dad had a little money for soney in his wallet!  I hated being a poor college student, but as I drove off to the real world after graduation my father told me "...At least $0 gets posted in black ink on the ledger, everything below $0 is written in red."

I remember having a very hard time getting a general credit card in the mid 80s. I was a working person and I saved $500 a month which at the time was a lot of money. The only reason I wanted a credit card was because I wanted to build up my credit rating so that I could get a mortgage.

As it turns out I got a mortgage anyways so it didn’t really matter, and somewhere around that same time I did get my first general credit card. I had had a storeCredit card for JC Penney company for some years.

[SwordGuy]

"They would set booths up right outside the campus bookstore on move-in day and try to get people to sign up."

Yes, that was a big difference from college up until the early '80's...  I can't recall seeing any CC companies during my days at good old State.  My only CC was my fathers Exxon card so I could get home and hope dear old Dad had a little money for soney in his wallet!  I hated being a poor college student, but as I drove off to the real world after graduation my father told me "...At least $0 gets posted in black ink on the ledger, everything below $0 is written in red."

I remember having a very hard time getting a general credit card in the mid 80s. I was a working person and I saved $500 a month which at the time was a lot of money. The only reason I wanted a credit card was because I wanted to build up my credit rating so that I could get a mortgage.

As it turns out I got a mortgage anyways so it didn’t really matter, and somewhere around that same time I did get my first general credit card. I had had a storeCredit card for JC Penney company for some years.

We were dirt poor in the 80s.  I had a gas credit card for awhile from when I was in college.  Rarely used it because we only had one car and didn't drive much and couldn't take on debt, the finances were too shaky.  It lapsed and we didn't renew it.    Needed a credit card for business use though (we had our own company and had to travel overnight on occasion) but we couldn't get one.  Our income was too low.   A local bank let us set up a $300 credit card with a $300 deposit we couldn't access for a year.   But that was enough to handle a few nights out of town on business, for which we knew we would be paid.  That's what it took for us to establish credit again with an income that was about 1/3rd median family income.

[saguaro]

"They would set booths up right outside the campus bookstore on move-in day and try to get people to sign up."

Yes, that was a big difference from college up until the early '80's...  I can't recall seeing any CC companies during my days at good old State.  My only CC was my fathers Exxon card so I could get home and hope dear old Dad had a little money for soney in his wallet!  I hated being a poor college student, but as I drove off to the real world after graduation my father told me "...At least $0 gets posted in black ink on the ledger, everything below $0 is written in red."

I remember having a very hard time getting a general credit card in the mid 80s. I was a working person and I saved $500 a month which at the time was a lot of money. The only reason I wanted a credit card was because I wanted to build up my credit rating so that I could get a mortgage.

As it turns out I got a mortgage anyways so it didn’t really matter, and somewhere around that same time I did get my first general credit card. I had had a storeCredit card for JC Penney company for some years.

We were dirt poor in the 80s.  I had a gas credit card for awhile from when I was in college.  Rarely used it because we only had one car and didn't drive much and couldn't take on debt, the finances were too shaky.  It lapsed and we didn't renew it.    Needed a credit card for business use though (we had our own company and had to travel overnight on occasion) but we couldn't get one.  Our income was too low.   A local bank let us set up a $300 credit card with a $300 deposit we couldn't access for a year.   But that was enough to handle a few nights out of town on business, for which we knew we would be paid.  That's what it took for us to establish credit again with an income that was about 1/3rd median family income.

While in college I opened a charge account at a local department store.   During the year after graduation and then working full time, I got a couple of charge cards but it would be 3 years before I finally got my first general credit card.  I remember going on our honeymoon and we had to have the cash / travelers checks to pay for hotels, etc. for the entire trip because we didn't have credit cards, not to mention that ATM networks were smaller and more local.   

[talltexan]

I was a sophomore in college and got traveler's cheques for a road trip to Dallas (about five hours north of where I was living at the time). My friends all told me I was weird. I don't think I've gotten any since then.

[geekette]

Before that (late 50's), credit cards weren't widely available and ATMs weren't around at all.  My newlywed parents took US Savings Bonds with them on their honeymoon, driving from the NE to Florida, stopping at banks to cash them as needed. 

</foam>

[saguaro]

I was a sophomore in college and got traveler's cheques for a road trip to Dallas (about five hours north of where I was living at the time). My friends all told me I was weird. I don't think I've gotten any since then.

We used traveler's cheques for long trips until about mid-2000s.   Even though we had credit cards we often used them as a way to get cash in absence of expanded ATM networks (remote areas) where we were traveling.  The last time we got them the bank teller had to get instructions on how to issue them, and some cashiers didn't know how to handle them.   

When our smaller regional bank was acquired by a larger one with locations pretty much nationwide, one upside was expanded ATM access w/o fees while traveling. 

[fredbear]

I have traveled with a letter of credit, which I presented at banks in the foreign country.  They would issue the money, perform the currency conversion, and annotate the letter with a deduction and running tally of how much I had left.  I don't know how they obtained their share from the escrow account represented by the letter.  It felt stately and impressive, as if for those moments I was a tiny but suddenly mature nexus in a world-spanning spiderweb of financieros, rather than a barely-post-hippie clattering around eating a lot of cheap delicious fish and fruit. 

[SwordGuy]

I have traveled with a letter of credit, which I presented at banks in the foreign country.  They would issue the money, perform the currency conversion, and annotate the letter with a deduction and running tally of how much I had left.  I don't know how they obtained their share from the escrow account represented by the letter.  It felt stately and impressive, as if for those moments I was a tiny but suddenly mature nexus in a world-spanning spiderweb of financieros, rather than a barely-post-hippie clattering around eating a lot of cheap delicious fish and fruit.

Just like they did in the old days, as described in "The Count of Monte Cristo".

[wbranch]

What happens to credit card debt when a person dies? I understand that a car, boat or house would be repo'd but what about $25K of consumer debt spent on TVs, clothes, and outings?

They can go after the estate, but if there's no estate there's no recourse. However, that does not prevent shady debt collectors from calling next-of-kin and claiming they're responsible to pay the deceased's debts.

Watching my dad go through this with my grandparents' estate when I was 17 is probably the biggest factor in my not even applying for a credit card until I was well into my twenties.  Not even for the free pizza/t-shirt/frisbee/whatever that was being offered for applications on my university campus.

Luckily, my dad knew what was up and told them to go after the (non-existent) estate.

My father and grandfather and my uncles always said that nothing's really free, there's always a catch.
When I went to college, I wouldn't sign up for CC offers with a "free" catch with a $X application fee. Then there was Discover, offering zero freebies, but also $0 application fee. My uncle told me to sign up for Discover to start building my credit. Then there was an Amex Blue student card which I opened, similar T&Cs. I still have those two cards open, 22 years later, I don't use them, but they are my oldest and help keep credit score in the 800s.

I don't recall any of these cards having an application fee, but then again I didn't listen to their spiel either.  They would set booths up right outside the campus bookstore on move-in day and try to get people to sign up.  I'm not sure if they had some way of getting an immediate approval so that you could take your brand new card into the bookstore and buy books with it or not.  I knew plenty of people who fell for it and racked up thousands in debt (and another who managed to put nearly 4 years of college tuition and books on CCs before filing bankruptcy three weeks after graduation).

I applied for the same Citi credit card several times at those booths to get a free pizza. I was approved the first time but they would let me apply again and get a free pizza every time. Pretty sure I got 5-6 free pizzas freshman and sophomore year. Finances were tight in college and I did end up needing to float some tuition and other stuff on the credit card. Would have been tough without the credit card. Paid a little bit of interest, which ended up being a learning experience.

[Rural]

I have traveled with a letter of credit, which I presented at banks in the foreign country.  They would issue the money, perform the currency conversion, and annotate the letter with a deduction and running tally of how much I had left.  I don't know how they obtained their share from the escrow account represented by the letter.  It felt stately and impressive, as if for those moments I was a tiny but suddenly mature nexus in a world-spanning spiderweb of financieros, rather than a barely-post-hippie clattering around eating a lot of cheap delicious fish and fruit.

I once bought a backhoe with a letter of credit, but that just doesn't have the same panache.

[talltexan]

I have traveled with a letter of credit, which I presented at banks in the foreign country.  They would issue the money, perform the currency conversion, and annotate the letter with a deduction and running tally of how much I had left.  I don't know how they obtained their share from the escrow account represented by the letter.  It felt stately and impressive, as if for those moments I was a tiny but suddenly mature nexus in a world-spanning spiderweb of financieros, rather than a barely-post-hippie clattering around eating a lot of cheap delicious fish and fruit.

@fredbear , this just sounds so completely badass. I suppose it's what the wealthy did back when being wealthy meant you basically lived in a different world from everyone else.