Author Topic: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.  (Read 1213326 times)

Villanelle

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2950 on: August 01, 2022, 10:24:07 AM »

And selfishly when FIL dies this house will now be our problem to empty and sell instead of someone else's!


Doesn’t have to be. Start working on spouse now to simply refuse the whole deal.
If FIL dies while still living in the house then somebody has to empty and sell it.  If not the nearest relatives, then it probably gets turned over to a house clearance company who will charge a lot and maybe make even more depending on what's in the house.  Is that a better outcome?  It's certainly not the mustachian one.

I dunno.  Mustacianism, to me, is being able to opt out of dealing with crap because I don't need the money.
If it's your nearest relatives who have died and you are a responsible member of society then it is your "crap" to dealing with, rather than throwing a tantrum and saying "won't" and hoping someone else (who did you have in mind?) will deal with it - or just you could just leave the house and contents to rot, I suppose.

There are many, many people and organizations that would be happy to have a house full of crap.  If you called them and offered to deed the house to them--crap contents and all--I am quite sure there would be a taker and the house would not be "left to rot".

That said, I'd likely accept the inherited house and call an organization to come take care of the contents.  If it is decent stuff, there are companies that will hold an estate sale, take much of the profits, and then haul off everything else.  If there isn't much of value, a charity might be interested, but if not, you can pay someone to haul it away.  Then you just have to deal with the sale, not the cleaning out.

There's no reason to take on the cleaning out of a home if someone doesn't want to, just to get a few extra dollars.  I don't see how that's different that not taking a job someone doesn't want to do.  If they pay isn't worth it, don't do it.  How is it mustachian to do work you dread doing (clearing out the house) in order to earn money you don't need?

Dee18

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2951 on: August 01, 2022, 10:36:46 AM »
My mother paid about $1500 to have my parents' house cleared out after we had moved cherished items to her new senior living apartment and given others to family and friends.  That included delivering the best stuff to the Habitat store, my dad's favorite charity. 

scottish

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2952 on: August 01, 2022, 02:37:59 PM »
Heh, we included some of the (older, more worn) furniture with the house after my parents passed away.

Habitat's a great place though.

less4success

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2953 on: August 01, 2022, 03:09:47 PM »
Tangentially related to this thread, I just found out that there are businesses that troll probate records and offer cash advances on inheritances to potential beneficiaries. I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of these stories was triggered by such a loan, indirectly...

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2954 on: August 01, 2022, 03:27:47 PM »
There's two different issues going on with an inheritance.  One is being executor/administrator and dealing with the legal side.  The other is dealing with the practical side.

If you are the nearest relative and executor/inheritor of a house and "simply refuse the whole deal" then the administration of the estate goes undealt with and the house and contents get left to rot, unless someone else with an interest starts a legal action over it all.

If you deal with the legal side then you are to some extent going to also have to deal with the practical side because 1) you are going to have to search the house for legal and ownership documents to make sure the legal side is properly dealt with and 2) you (if you inherit) are going to be responsible for things like property taxes and utility bills.  You could always leave everything else to rot, of course.

If you decide to deal with the practical side as well as the legal side you can get someone else to do the practical side but you still need to find them and agree terms, which is hardly "refusing the whole deal".   And even then if you don't do the job of properly employing someone -scoping out the work, understanding the terms of the offer from the contractor, negotiating the deal - then you are not being mustachian.

It used to be the case that most people died owning very little - houses were rented, physical belongings were useful and got parcelled out among relatives, no shares were owned and money in the bank was below the levels at which formal administration of an estate would be needed.   Now with more property owned and fewer relatives to deal with it all managing a death is becoming a different scale of problem, and it's one it is not easy to duck out of doing.

Wolfpack Mustachian

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2955 on: August 01, 2022, 03:27:53 PM »

And selfishly when FIL dies this house will now be our problem to empty and sell instead of someone else's!


Doesn’t have to be. Start working on spouse now to simply refuse the whole deal.
If FIL dies while still living in the house then somebody has to empty and sell it.  If not the nearest relatives, then it probably gets turned over to a house clearance company who will charge a lot and maybe make even more depending on what's in the house.  Is that a better outcome?  It's certainly not the mustachian one.

I dunno.  Mustacianism, to me, is being able to opt out of dealing with crap because I don't need the money.
If it's your nearest relatives who have died and you are a responsible member of society then it is your "crap" to dealing with, rather than throwing a tantrum and saying "won't" and hoping someone else (who did you have in mind?) will deal with it - or just you could just leave the house and contents to rot, I suppose.

I'm not sure where this perspective is coming from. Worst case you would be ceding the house, land, and everything in it to the government (right?) How is this throwing a tantrum or screwing over society?

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2956 on: August 01, 2022, 03:34:22 PM »

And selfishly when FIL dies this house will now be our problem to empty and sell instead of someone else's!


Doesn’t have to be. Start working on spouse now to simply refuse the whole deal.
If FIL dies while still living in the house then somebody has to empty and sell it.  If not the nearest relatives, then it probably gets turned over to a house clearance company who will charge a lot and maybe make even more depending on what's in the house.  Is that a better outcome?  It's certainly not the mustachian one.

I dunno.  Mustacianism, to me, is being able to opt out of dealing with crap because I don't need the money.
If it's your nearest relatives who have died and you are a responsible member of society then it is your "crap" to dealing with, rather than throwing a tantrum and saying "won't" and hoping someone else (who did you have in mind?) will deal with it - or just you could just leave the house and contents to rot, I suppose.

I'm not sure where this perspective is coming from. Worst case you would be ceding the house, land, and everything in it to the government (right?) How is this throwing a tantrum or screwing over society?
How does the government know that it is theirs to deal with if you haven't dealt with it to the extent of telling them? And if you've done that much what's the excuse for not dealing with the whole issue?

Villanelle

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2957 on: August 01, 2022, 03:40:25 PM »

And selfishly when FIL dies this house will now be our problem to empty and sell instead of someone else's!


Doesn’t have to be. Start working on spouse now to simply refuse the whole deal.
If FIL dies while still living in the house then somebody has to empty and sell it.  If not the nearest relatives, then it probably gets turned over to a house clearance company who will charge a lot and maybe make even more depending on what's in the house.  Is that a better outcome?  It's certainly not the mustachian one.

I dunno.  Mustacianism, to me, is being able to opt out of dealing with crap because I don't need the money.
If it's your nearest relatives who have died and you are a responsible member of society then it is your "crap" to dealing with, rather than throwing a tantrum and saying "won't" and hoping someone else (who did you have in mind?) will deal with it - or just you could just leave the house and contents to rot, I suppose.

I'm not sure where this perspective is coming from. Worst case you would be ceding the house, land, and everything in it to the government (right?) How is this throwing a tantrum or screwing over society?
How does the government know that it is theirs to deal with if you haven't dealt with it to the extent of telling them? And if you've done that much what's the excuse for not dealing with the whole issue?

Turning down an inheritance and managing an estate is about a million times less complicated and time-consuming than being the executor to an estate (if that's what we are talking about) and dealing with the cleaning out and selling of a home, especially if you do that work yourself. 

Wolfpack Mustachian

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2958 on: August 01, 2022, 04:30:45 PM »

And selfishly when FIL dies this house will now be our problem to empty and sell instead of someone else's!


Doesn’t have to be. Start working on spouse now to simply refuse the whole deal.
If FIL dies while still living in the house then somebody has to empty and sell it.  If not the nearest relatives, then it probably gets turned over to a house clearance company who will charge a lot and maybe make even more depending on what's in the house.  Is that a better outcome?  It's certainly not the mustachian one.

I dunno.  Mustacianism, to me, is being able to opt out of dealing with crap because I don't need the money.
If it's your nearest relatives who have died and you are a responsible member of society then it is your "crap" to dealing with, rather than throwing a tantrum and saying "won't" and hoping someone else (who did you have in mind?) will deal with it - or just you could just leave the house and contents to rot, I suppose.

I'm not sure where this perspective is coming from. Worst case you would be ceding the house, land, and everything in it to the government (right?) How is this throwing a tantrum or screwing over society?
How does the government know that it is theirs to deal with if you haven't dealt with it to the extent of telling them? And if you've done that much what's the excuse for not dealing with the whole issue?

First, I have never done it and am not wanting to come off as claiming to be an expert. A quick search makes it seem that it's pretty easy to decline being an executor and/or to not take an inheritance. Once you did that, it would go to someone else, and, I imagine, eventually to the government if they ran out of heirs.

This seems like a much lower bar of effort than truly dealing with it, which could be worth it or not to you personally, but unless you're deliberately trying to screw up the works by not being willing to submit a rejection in writing - again a low bar, then I don't see how it's being mean to anyone.

former player

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2959 on: August 01, 2022, 04:40:09 PM »
I seem to be alone in thinking that sometimes being an adult means stepping up and doing your bit to make the world run a little more smoothly.  Good to know.

iris lily

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2960 on: August 01, 2022, 05:24:37 PM »
I seem to be alone in thinking that sometimes being an adult means stepping up and doing your bit to make the world run a little more smoothly.  Good to know.

For me it would entirely depend on who I know is impacted by the presumed property left sitting there with no one taking care of it.

If it was in a neighborhood where neighbors I know were impacted by the property not being mowed and cared for, yes,  I would feel responsible for stepping up to take care of it. I really wouldn’t mind that aspect of it because I can deal with physical objects easily. The problem comes into play if there are a whole bunch of other inheritors who want to squabble over money in the estate. But if that were the case, I would just opt out of my share and suggest to the squabblers they  take care of it.

 While I have respect for the amount of time it takes to close out an estate, it really does not take out that much time to clean a house if you’re single minded about it and understand that most crap isn’t worth money so don’t bother with it. And just sell the real estate AS  IS. Too many people try to “fix it up” for maximum resale. “No one needs to do that.

Now, if there are people inheriting who desperately need the money and who are incapacitated and cannot act as executor, then yes I would feel a moral responsibility to carefully dispose of the estate getting the most money possible. I can see acting responsibly this for a disabled child of the dead person or similar case.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2022, 08:11:30 PM by iris lily »

Sibley

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2961 on: August 01, 2022, 05:56:14 PM »
I seem to be alone in thinking that sometimes being an adult means stepping up and doing your bit to make the world run a little more smoothly.  Good to know.

Oh, you're not alone in thinking that. Yes, there are situations where it's morally justified to wash your hands of it, but they're not because you're lazy and don't want to deal with it.

Wolfpack Mustachian

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2962 on: August 01, 2022, 07:39:51 PM »
I seem to be alone in thinking that sometimes being an adult means stepping up and doing your bit to make the world run a little more smoothly.  Good to know.

What an odd situation to be sanctimonious about...

It doesn't make sense in a specific sense or a general sense.

On the one hand, the situation that was being discussed was already contentious. The situation with their FIL could be "over" when he buys it out, or it could come with more baggage. Hard to tell from the description, but I could see it happening.

From a general situation, if there's a whole house up for grabs, I would imagine there would be a number of heirs who would be willing to handle it for even a few thousand dollars in hand. So, saying you don't want to deal with it, as long as you (as I stated) are not a jerk about it and put in written notice about it, would cause the property to go to them without much trouble and they could handle it.

In the first situation, there's a reason beyond "being lazy" for not doing it. In the second one, you're not causing some calamity or gunking up the works horribly by distancing yourself from it.

Ultimately, I'm a firm believer in cleaning up your own messes. This is not their own mess. As is stated in numerous threads and other situations - you are not responsible for your parents - you are responsible for yourself. I'm also a believer in cleaning up other people's messes....to a point. We all clean up messes all the time we don't cause - we pick up trash we didn't drop, we help others out of bad situations that we had nothing to do with. It's a laudable thing. It's also not something we should expect of everyone to do every time the situation comes their way. There are just too many messes in the world.

I just, again, find it really odd that on this thread full of problems, challenges, and insane situations caused by inheritance that you would take the perspective implying someone was an irresponsible child who didn't want to deal with something that 9 times out of 10 wouldn't cause any real issues by passing it along to someone else who would literally get paid for doing it and likely be more than happy to handle it for the money.

I'm going to help handle my parents and in laws estates when the time comes. I'm also not going to look down on others who don't. I don't see why this is so controversial.

iris lily

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2963 on: August 01, 2022, 08:16:47 PM »
I guess because I am nosy and pay attention to real estate in various places where I live, I see houses that are vacant for decades. I am not exaggerating. In my old neighborhood we called them “problem properties “ and we zeroed in on absentee owners, usually children of the deceased, who for some reason could not get off their duff and sell the thing.

So now I’ve watched two real estate booms come and go where some of these buildings STILL sit vacant. Who are these dummies who own these things? I just don’t get it. Because my old neighborhood is a historic preservation District, we are very concerned about the buildings being vacant, water getting in, structure going downhill.

There’s one on my Block in my new town, but it is a cute tidy brick house that is kept mowed so no one is bothered by it. The heirs cannot agree what to do with it. That seems very stupid to me but whatever.

Imma

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2964 on: August 02, 2022, 01:10:11 AM »
I seem to be alone in thinking that sometimes being an adult means stepping up and doing your bit to make the world run a little more smoothly.  Good to know.

I think rejecting an inheritance can be a good option for some people under some circumstances, but I feel people here make it sound a little more easy than it is. Or maybe the laws are different where you guys all live?

Here, rejecting an inheritance means not being able to organize the funeral (if you organize the funeral you are legally accepting you are an heir).  It means stepping away from all the posessions of your loved one. That includes childhood pictures and their dog. A few years ago one of our neighbours died. He was a lifelong bachelor, not a friendly guy at all, apparantly in debt as well. His distant relatives decided to reject the inheritance. Which is understandable, since he wasn't nice, he rented and had debts. I wouldn't want to be stuck with my nasty uncle's mess either. But in that case, the local goverment handles everything. In practice that meant the local government picked up his body from the hospital, had him cremated without any kind of ceremony and sent guys who carried all his possessions into a dumpster in about an hour. He didn't have pets but they would have been surrendered to a shelter. It's a pretty big thing to do. I have an unfriendly bachelor uncle as well. I'm not sure if I would reject that inheritance, it would depend on the amount of debts. But I still feel like I owe him at least a decent funeral, and I'd like to get back a few family heirlooms.

Of course, in many cases, if one person rejects an inheritance there will be people next in line. You may still be able to attend a funeral as a guest while someone else is legally liable for it. But you will be dependant on the kindness of the other heirs to ever get your baby pictures back.

Sugaree

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2965 on: August 02, 2022, 04:09:42 AM »
I guess because I am nosy and pay attention to real estate in various places where I live, I see houses that are vacant for decades. I am not exaggerating. In my old neighborhood we called them “problem properties “ and we zeroed in on absentee owners, usually children of the deceased, who for some reason could not get off their duff and sell the thing.

So now I’ve watched two real estate booms come and go where some of these buildings STILL sit vacant. Who are these dummies who own these things? I just don’t get it. Because my old neighborhood is a historic preservation District, we are very concerned about the buildings being vacant, water getting in, structure going downhill.

There’s one on my Block in my new town, but it is a cute tidy brick house that is kept mowed so no one is bothered by it. The heirs cannot agree what to do with it. That seems very stupid to me but whatever.

We have a similar neighborhood in my area.  The problem seems to be that this used to be a lower income part of town.  If you're familiar with the concept of a mill village then you kind of understand.  Some residents are fifth or sixth generation on the same street.  And some are people who've moved in from out of state and have no concept of what the neighborhood was like before the mill closed down.  So, you've got an interesting mix of people who are gentrifying the neighborhood (got it put on the national historical register), people who are doing their best to hold on to their great-great-great-grandparents' house, and houses that are sitting empty because there might be a dozen heirs and none of them can agree on what to do.  The way it usually goes down is that the ones who want to live there can't afford to buy out their cousins, the ones who can afford it don't want to live there, the ones who want nothing to do with the family don't respond to anything, and meanwhile the house sits empty and rots. 

In one local case, a local woman passed her house to her five grandchildren.  The house was in a horrible location for a residence, but the block had been rezoned to commercial some years back.  Four of the five grandchildren had gotten a great offer on it, and the fifth held it up because she was opposed to her grandmother's house becoming a liquor store.  They went to court over it.  The four who wanted to sell "won," but I suspect that there were no winners in the end.

Sugaree

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2966 on: August 02, 2022, 04:16:13 AM »
I seem to be alone in thinking that sometimes being an adult means stepping up and doing your bit to make the world run a little more smoothly.  Good to know.

I think rejecting an inheritance can be a good option for some people under some circumstances, but I feel people here make it sound a little more easy than it is. Or maybe the laws are different where you guys all live?

Here, rejecting an inheritance means not being able to organize the funeral (if you organize the funeral you are legally accepting you are an heir).  It means stepping away from all the posessions of your loved one. That includes childhood pictures and their dog. A few years ago one of our neighbours died. He was a lifelong bachelor, not a friendly guy at all, apparantly in debt as well. His distant relatives decided to reject the inheritance. Which is understandable, since he wasn't nice, he rented and had debts. I wouldn't want to be stuck with my nasty uncle's mess either. But in that case, the local goverment handles everything. In practice that meant the local government picked up his body from the hospital, had him cremated without any kind of ceremony and sent guys who carried all his possessions into a dumpster in about an hour. He didn't have pets but they would have been surrendered to a shelter. It's a pretty big thing to do. I have an unfriendly bachelor uncle as well. I'm not sure if I would reject that inheritance, it would depend on the amount of debts. But I still feel like I owe him at least a decent funeral, and I'd like to get back a few family heirlooms.

Of course, in many cases, if one person rejects an inheritance there will be people next in line. You may still be able to attend a funeral as a guest while someone else is legally liable for it. But you will be dependant on the kindness of the other heirs to ever get your baby pictures back.

So, where I live, I can actually pick and choose which parts of an inheritance I want to take.  For example, I can (and will) simply refuse my parents' timeshares.  As long as I don't use them after my parents pass, they can't force me to take responsibility for them.  That doesn't disqualify me from receiving anything else (though I'm not expecting anything from them).  Debt is almost never inherited, thankfully.  The few cases I can think of where debt could be passed down would be secured debt like a mortgage or if the descendants co-signed on something.

Villanelle

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2967 on: August 02, 2022, 08:16:20 AM »
I seem to be alone in thinking that sometimes being an adult means stepping up and doing your bit to make the world run a little more smoothly.  Good to know.

This is such a strange thing to be aggressively sanctimonious about.  An inheritance is a gift.  If someone offers you a gift that you don't want, it is okay to say, "no, thank you".  There's nothing "not adult" about that.  If the person that started this strange thread drift doesn't accept the house, there is almost certainly someone else who will.  "Hey aunt, we don't want the house; it's yours".  And yet you seem intent on making this some sort of selfish, lazy, self-involved decision that will lead to decaying crack houses of undetermined ownership. 

Plina

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2968 on: August 02, 2022, 08:39:51 AM »
I guess because I am nosy and pay attention to real estate in various places where I live, I see houses that are vacant for decades. I am not exaggerating. In my old neighborhood we called them “problem properties “ and we zeroed in on absentee owners, usually children of the deceased, who for some reason could not get off their duff and sell the thing.

So now I’ve watched two real estate booms come and go where some of these buildings STILL sit vacant. Who are these dummies who own these things? I just don’t get it. Because my old neighborhood is a historic preservation District, we are very concerned about the buildings being vacant, water getting in, structure going downhill.

There’s one on my Block in my new town, but it is a cute tidy brick house that is kept mowed so no one is bothered by it. The heirs cannot agree what to do with it. That seems very stupid to me but whatever.

We have a similar neighborhood in my area.  The problem seems to be that this used to be a lower income part of town.  If you're familiar with the concept of a mill village then you kind of understand.  Some residents are fifth or sixth generation on the same street.  And some are people who've moved in from out of state and have no concept of what the neighborhood was like before the mill closed down.  So, you've got an interesting mix of people who are gentrifying the neighborhood (got it put on the national historical register), people who are doing their best to hold on to their great-great-great-grandparents' house, and houses that are sitting empty because there might be a dozen heirs and none of them can agree on what to do.  The way it usually goes down is that the ones who want to live there can't afford to buy out their cousins, the ones who can afford it don't want to live there, the ones who want nothing to do with the family don't respond to anything, and meanwhile the house sits empty and rots. 

In one local case, a local woman passed her house to her five grandchildren.  The house was in a horrible location for a residence, but the block had been rezoned to commercial some years back.  Four of the five grandchildren had gotten a great offer on it, and the fifth held it up because she was opposed to her grandmother's house becoming a liquor store.  They went to court over it.  The four who wanted to sell "won," but I suspect that there were no winners in the end.

Here you can force a sale if a property if one of the owners wants to sell but if the property is not worth much you can get stuck with the bill of a lawyer selling the house.

My father inherited his fathers 1/9 of a property 20 years ago. The property was owned by his grandfathers estate. His grandfather had died before he was born about some 70 years ago. Thereafter his grandmother continued living on the property until she died some 40+ years ago. One of grandfathers siblings continued living on the property until about five years ago when he went to an assisted living housing. He paid the bills during those 40+ years and nobody wanted to throw him out. When he went to assisted living housing he wanted to stop paying for the house but so we started looking in to issue and realised what a mess it was. Nobody wanted to deal with it and he did in the beginning of the covid epidemic. He didn’t have a will so his two sisters and the children of the now deceased siblings inherited him and the crap with the house.

My father and one of his cousins started to trying to solve the situation. Two of the 30 heirs expressed interest in buying the house and there was finally one interested in giving 3000 USD for the house. Most of the heirs didn’t give a crap about the house but didn’t want to be a pain in the ass for those that finally wanted to solve the crap situation left for them by their parents so they agree to everything suggested by father and his cousin. Ass everyone wanted the issue resolved they let the estate of the uncle to pay for the cost of a person dealing with the formalia and all expenses assoicated with it. Two years later the house is now sold and they have to finalise both estates. The sisters didn’t want to sell to the person finally buying the property so their children had to do some armtwisting to get it achieved. My father told them that if the house was not sold now it would rot and be the estate would eventually go bankrupt.  The 3000 USD will be split after the costs are reduced among app 20 persons. What is left of the uncles estate will also be split among app. 20 persons. It will probably amount to 200-300 USD in the end for most of them. My father and his aunts will gain 300-400 USD as they owned  1/9 of the first estate and got 1/9 of his uncles estate.

This 60+ year old issue is finally getting solved because the issue was forced by death. If would not have been possible if not all the heirs had not been able to agree on a solution and if the aunts had not finally come to their sense due to the risk of an even worse faith. I understand if people leave things to rot because that is often the cheapest route. If this issue had to be solved through court it could have been really expensive and nobody would have been prepared to pay thousand or tens of thousands of dollars to get a 3000 dollar property in the middle of nowhere sold.

talltexan

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2969 on: August 02, 2022, 12:17:11 PM »
My in-laws and parents got into a heated discussion (riding together in the car) about passing on money before they die. One set received substantial inherited wealth about fifteen years ago. The other set couldn't imagine what that is like (although both have saved responsibly). People get worked up about this stuff.

Imma

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2970 on: August 02, 2022, 02:07:20 PM »
I seem to be alone in thinking that sometimes being an adult means stepping up and doing your bit to make the world run a little more smoothly.  Good to know.

I think rejecting an inheritance can be a good option for some people under some circumstances, but I feel people here make it sound a little more easy than it is. Or maybe the laws are different where you guys all live?

Here, rejecting an inheritance means not being able to organize the funeral (if you organize the funeral you are legally accepting you are an heir).  It means stepping away from all the posessions of your loved one. That includes childhood pictures and their dog. A few years ago one of our neighbours died. He was a lifelong bachelor, not a friendly guy at all, apparantly in debt as well. His distant relatives decided to reject the inheritance. Which is understandable, since he wasn't nice, he rented and had debts. I wouldn't want to be stuck with my nasty uncle's mess either. But in that case, the local goverment handles everything. In practice that meant the local government picked up his body from the hospital, had him cremated without any kind of ceremony and sent guys who carried all his possessions into a dumpster in about an hour. He didn't have pets but they would have been surrendered to a shelter. It's a pretty big thing to do. I have an unfriendly bachelor uncle as well. I'm not sure if I would reject that inheritance, it would depend on the amount of debts. But I still feel like I owe him at least a decent funeral, and I'd like to get back a few family heirlooms.

Of course, in many cases, if one person rejects an inheritance there will be people next in line. You may still be able to attend a funeral as a guest while someone else is legally liable for it. But you will be dependant on the kindness of the other heirs to ever get your baby pictures back.

So, where I live, I can actually pick and choose which parts of an inheritance I want to take.  For example, I can (and will) simply refuse my parents' timeshares.  As long as I don't use them after my parents pass, they can't force me to take responsibility for them.  That doesn't disqualify me from receiving anything else (though I'm not expecting anything from them).  Debt is almost never inherited, thankfully.  The few cases I can think of where debt could be passed down would be secured debt like a mortgage or if the descendants co-signed on something.

Oh, that sounds ideal! I imagine few people would want to accept a timeshare, but you'd still be able to pick the things you'd want.

Here you get three options:
- refuse outright. You need to register this with the local court, it's not expensive, but it means you get literally nothing. Inheritance will go to the person next in line until there's no one left and then it's the local government's problem.
- accept on the condition the inheritance is a net-positive. You also need to register this with the court. You settle the estate (figure out the debts of the estate, find where the money is, sell the valuables) if the result is positive it's for you, if the result is negative, it's divided among the creditors. In this situation you are allowed to sell the jewelry to benefit the estate but you can't take your parents wedding ring for yourself until everything is settled and you've accepted the result.
- accept the inheritance, whatever the outcome. If you take anything for yourself before the estate is settled, you "act as an heir" and you're automatically stuck with it regardless of the result.

Many people choose to accept the inheritance because they're so attached to family heirlooms and other material things. In my family we've always been open about money so I hope that should one of my parents die in debt, they'd give me the photo albums and wedding rings before their death.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2971 on: August 03, 2022, 08:19:10 AM »
I seem to be alone in thinking that sometimes being an adult means stepping up and doing your bit to make the world run a little more smoothly.  Good to know.

I think rejecting an inheritance can be a good option for some people under some circumstances, but I feel people here make it sound a little more easy than it is. Or maybe the laws are different where you guys all live?

Here, rejecting an inheritance means not being able to organize the funeral (if you organize the funeral you are legally accepting you are an heir).  It means stepping away from all the posessions of your loved one. That includes childhood pictures and their dog. A few years ago one of our neighbours died. He was a lifelong bachelor, not a friendly guy at all, apparantly in debt as well. His distant relatives decided to reject the inheritance. Which is understandable, since he wasn't nice, he rented and had debts. I wouldn't want to be stuck with my nasty uncle's mess either. But in that case, the local goverment handles everything. In practice that meant the local government picked up his body from the hospital, had him cremated without any kind of ceremony and sent guys who carried all his possessions into a dumpster in about an hour. He didn't have pets but they would have been surrendered to a shelter. It's a pretty big thing to do. I have an unfriendly bachelor uncle as well. I'm not sure if I would reject that inheritance, it would depend on the amount of debts. But I still feel like I owe him at least a decent funeral, and I'd like to get back a few family heirlooms.

Of course, in many cases, if one person rejects an inheritance there will be people next in line. You may still be able to attend a funeral as a guest while someone else is legally liable for it. But you will be dependant on the kindness of the other heirs to ever get your baby pictures back.

So, where I live, I can actually pick and choose which parts of an inheritance I want to take.  For example, I can (and will) simply refuse my parents' timeshares.  As long as I don't use them after my parents pass, they can't force me to take responsibility for them.  That doesn't disqualify me from receiving anything else (though I'm not expecting anything from them).  Debt is almost never inherited, thankfully.  The few cases I can think of where debt could be passed down would be secured debt like a mortgage or if the descendants co-signed on something.

Oh, that sounds ideal! I imagine few people would want to accept a timeshare, but you'd still be able to pick the things you'd want.

Here you get three options:
- refuse outright. You need to register this with the local court, it's not expensive, but it means you get literally nothing. Inheritance will go to the person next in line until there's no one left and then it's the local government's problem.
- accept on the condition the inheritance is a net-positive. You also need to register this with the court. You settle the estate (figure out the debts of the estate, find where the money is, sell the valuables) if the result is positive it's for you, if the result is negative, it's divided among the creditors. In this situation you are allowed to sell the jewelry to benefit the estate but you can't take your parents wedding ring for yourself until everything is settled and you've accepted the result.
- accept the inheritance, whatever the outcome. If you take anything for yourself before the estate is settled, you "act as an heir" and you're automatically stuck with it regardless of the result.

Many people choose to accept the inheritance because they're so attached to family heirlooms and other material things. In my family we've always been open about money so I hope that should one of my parents die in debt, they'd give me the photo albums and wedding rings before their death.

With the timeshare, there are some extra steps you will have to take to ensure that you don't accidentally saddle yourself with responsibility you don't want.

1. Make sure your name is not on the deed. If you're on the deed, you're equally and severally responsible for paying maintenance fees (and "mortgage" payments if the timeshare is bought with borrowed money). If you're on the deed now, GET OFF. This may mean that you lose the ability to log into the timeshare Web site and book vacations yourself. It won't mean that you can't use the timeshare as your parents' guests, but it's your parents who will have to set it up.
2. Make sure that you and your dependents don't use the timeshare at any point after your parents die or become incompetent. Even if a vacation was scheduled prior to the owner passing away, if you show up and use that timeshare it can be interpreted as evidence that you intend to own it.
3. If you have Power of Attorney and are paying your parents' bills for them, make sure that any payments related to the timeshare come from *their* accounts and not yours.

The way the timeshare company (and the law) will see it is like this: as timeshare owners your parents can have whatever guests they want, including you, because they've paid for the right to do it and continue to pay every year in the form of maintenance fees. But if they're dead and you're continuing to use the timeshare (even for a vacation booked before your parents pass away) you're enjoying the benefit of the timeshare, so that's interpreted as an intention to own it and to assume responsibility for the maintenance fees.

If you touch the account by putting money into it, consider the timeshare as something financially and legally sticky like co-signing for another person's car loan.

Contrary to what timeshare salespeople say (and they say a lot of random nonsense that isn't always true), a timeshare isn't real estate. It's the purchase of whatever vacations you plan to take for the rest of your life, in advance. Mathematically, depending on things like family size and travel patterns, it can work out for some. Inheriting a timeshare does let a person off the hook for the initial purchase price. But if the location or travel style doesn't suit you, or doesn't justify the annual maintenance fees, DON'T DO IT. It's better to try to give back or sell back the timeshare while your parents are still alive. Some timeshare companies maintain right-of-first-refusal. No matter what else they do, the owners extremely unlikely to get their initial purchase price back out of the timeshare, much less inflation. That's not a big deal if they have actually used the vacation accommodations and received the value for their purchase. But timeshares are not an "investment".

scottish

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2972 on: August 03, 2022, 06:06:36 PM »
I seem to be alone in thinking that sometimes being an adult means stepping up and doing your bit to make the world run a little more smoothly.  Good to know.

I think rejecting an inheritance can be a good option for some people under some circumstances, but I feel people here make it sound a little more easy than it is. Or maybe the laws are different where you guys all live?

Here, rejecting an inheritance means not being able to organize the funeral (if you organize the funeral you are legally accepting you are an heir).  It means stepping away from all the posessions of your loved one. That includes childhood pictures and their dog. A few years ago one of our neighbours died. He was a lifelong bachelor, not a friendly guy at all, apparantly in debt as well. His distant relatives decided to reject the inheritance. Which is understandable, since he wasn't nice, he rented and had debts. I wouldn't want to be stuck with my nasty uncle's mess either. But in that case, the local goverment handles everything. In practice that meant the local government picked up his body from the hospital, had him cremated without any kind of ceremony and sent guys who carried all his possessions into a dumpster in about an hour. He didn't have pets but they would have been surrendered to a shelter. It's a pretty big thing to do. I have an unfriendly bachelor uncle as well. I'm not sure if I would reject that inheritance, it would depend on the amount of debts. But I still feel like I owe him at least a decent funeral, and I'd like to get back a few family heirlooms.

Of course, in many cases, if one person rejects an inheritance there will be people next in line. You may still be able to attend a funeral as a guest while someone else is legally liable for it. But you will be dependant on the kindness of the other heirs to ever get your baby pictures back.

So, where I live, I can actually pick and choose which parts of an inheritance I want to take.  For example, I can (and will) simply refuse my parents' timeshares.  As long as I don't use them after my parents pass, they can't force me to take responsibility for them.  That doesn't disqualify me from receiving anything else (though I'm not expecting anything from them).  Debt is almost never inherited, thankfully.  The few cases I can think of where debt could be passed down would be secured debt like a mortgage or if the descendants co-signed on something.

Oh, that sounds ideal! I imagine few people would want to accept a timeshare, but you'd still be able to pick the things you'd want.

Here you get three options:
- refuse outright. You need to register this with the local court, it's not expensive, but it means you get literally nothing. Inheritance will go to the person next in line until there's no one left and then it's the local government's problem.
- accept on the condition the inheritance is a net-positive. You also need to register this with the court. You settle the estate (figure out the debts of the estate, find where the money is, sell the valuables) if the result is positive it's for you, if the result is negative, it's divided among the creditors. In this situation you are allowed to sell the jewelry to benefit the estate but you can't take your parents wedding ring for yourself until everything is settled and you've accepted the result.
- accept the inheritance, whatever the outcome. If you take anything for yourself before the estate is settled, you "act as an heir" and you're automatically stuck with it regardless of the result.

Many people choose to accept the inheritance because they're so attached to family heirlooms and other material things. In my family we've always been open about money so I hope that should one of my parents die in debt, they'd give me the photo albums and wedding rings before their death.

A question:

If the estate has a negative net worth, does this mean the beneficiary has liability?    I think there's a rule like this in Quebec, but it may be the executor who's liable rather than the beneficiary.  (I don't live in Quebec.)

Imma

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2973 on: August 04, 2022, 02:04:56 PM »
I seem to be alone in thinking that sometimes being an adult means stepping up and doing your bit to make the world run a little more smoothly.  Good to know.

I think rejecting an inheritance can be a good option for some people under some circumstances, but I feel people here make it sound a little more easy than it is. Or maybe the laws are different where you guys all live?

Here, rejecting an inheritance means not being able to organize the funeral (if you organize the funeral you are legally accepting you are an heir).  It means stepping away from all the posessions of your loved one. That includes childhood pictures and their dog. A few years ago one of our neighbours died. He was a lifelong bachelor, not a friendly guy at all, apparantly in debt as well. His distant relatives decided to reject the inheritance. Which is understandable, since he wasn't nice, he rented and had debts. I wouldn't want to be stuck with my nasty uncle's mess either. But in that case, the local goverment handles everything. In practice that meant the local government picked up his body from the hospital, had him cremated without any kind of ceremony and sent guys who carried all his possessions into a dumpster in about an hour. He didn't have pets but they would have been surrendered to a shelter. It's a pretty big thing to do. I have an unfriendly bachelor uncle as well. I'm not sure if I would reject that inheritance, it would depend on the amount of debts. But I still feel like I owe him at least a decent funeral, and I'd like to get back a few family heirlooms.

Of course, in many cases, if one person rejects an inheritance there will be people next in line. You may still be able to attend a funeral as a guest while someone else is legally liable for it. But you will be dependant on the kindness of the other heirs to ever get your baby pictures back.

So, where I live, I can actually pick and choose which parts of an inheritance I want to take.  For example, I can (and will) simply refuse my parents' timeshares.  As long as I don't use them after my parents pass, they can't force me to take responsibility for them.  That doesn't disqualify me from receiving anything else (though I'm not expecting anything from them).  Debt is almost never inherited, thankfully.  The few cases I can think of where debt could be passed down would be secured debt like a mortgage or if the descendants co-signed on something.

Oh, that sounds ideal! I imagine few people would want to accept a timeshare, but you'd still be able to pick the things you'd want.

Here you get three options:
- refuse outright. You need to register this with the local court, it's not expensive, but it means you get literally nothing. Inheritance will go to the person next in line until there's no one left and then it's the local government's problem.
- accept on the condition the inheritance is a net-positive. You also need to register this with the court. You settle the estate (figure out the debts of the estate, find where the money is, sell the valuables) if the result is positive it's for you, if the result is negative, it's divided among the creditors. In this situation you are allowed to sell the jewelry to benefit the estate but you can't take your parents wedding ring for yourself until everything is settled and you've accepted the result.
- accept the inheritance, whatever the outcome. If you take anything for yourself before the estate is settled, you "act as an heir" and you're automatically stuck with it regardless of the result.

Many people choose to accept the inheritance because they're so attached to family heirlooms and other material things. In my family we've always been open about money so I hope that should one of my parents die in debt, they'd give me the photo albums and wedding rings before their death.

A question:

If the estate has a negative net worth, does this mean the beneficiary has liability?    I think there's a rule like this in Quebec, but it may be the executor who's liable rather than the beneficiary.  (I don't live in Quebec.)

I'm not in Québec either, but yes, here if one accepts an inheritance unconditionally, you can end up with a negative net-worth estate and in that case you'd be legally liable.

In very exceptional circumstances an unconditional acceptance can be reversed to a conditional acceptance, but you'd need a judge's approval. A minor can only accept an inheritance conditionally, so they can't end up in debt. Also, student loans are tied to a person, they don't have to be paid out of the estate. But mortgages, credit card debt, bank loans, yes.

In other jurisdictions where an heir can't be held legally liable for the debts of an estate, what happens there? Can an heir walk away with the valuable parts of an estate without having to pay back the debt? If so, why would anyone take the risk of lending someone money if they can't recoup it after death?

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2974 on: August 04, 2022, 02:10:10 PM »
I seem to be alone in thinking that sometimes being an adult means stepping up and doing your bit to make the world run a little more smoothly.  Good to know.

I think rejecting an inheritance can be a good option for some people under some circumstances, but I feel people here make it sound a little more easy than it is. Or maybe the laws are different where you guys all live?

Here, rejecting an inheritance means not being able to organize the funeral (if you organize the funeral you are legally accepting you are an heir).  It means stepping away from all the posessions of your loved one. That includes childhood pictures and their dog. A few years ago one of our neighbours died. He was a lifelong bachelor, not a friendly guy at all, apparantly in debt as well. His distant relatives decided to reject the inheritance. Which is understandable, since he wasn't nice, he rented and had debts. I wouldn't want to be stuck with my nasty uncle's mess either. But in that case, the local goverment handles everything. In practice that meant the local government picked up his body from the hospital, had him cremated without any kind of ceremony and sent guys who carried all his possessions into a dumpster in about an hour. He didn't have pets but they would have been surrendered to a shelter. It's a pretty big thing to do. I have an unfriendly bachelor uncle as well. I'm not sure if I would reject that inheritance, it would depend on the amount of debts. But I still feel like I owe him at least a decent funeral, and I'd like to get back a few family heirlooms.

Of course, in many cases, if one person rejects an inheritance there will be people next in line. You may still be able to attend a funeral as a guest while someone else is legally liable for it. But you will be dependant on the kindness of the other heirs to ever get your baby pictures back.

So, where I live, I can actually pick and choose which parts of an inheritance I want to take.  For example, I can (and will) simply refuse my parents' timeshares.  As long as I don't use them after my parents pass, they can't force me to take responsibility for them.  That doesn't disqualify me from receiving anything else (though I'm not expecting anything from them).  Debt is almost never inherited, thankfully.  The few cases I can think of where debt could be passed down would be secured debt like a mortgage or if the descendants co-signed on something.

Oh, that sounds ideal! I imagine few people would want to accept a timeshare, but you'd still be able to pick the things you'd want.

Here you get three options:
- refuse outright. You need to register this with the local court, it's not expensive, but it means you get literally nothing. Inheritance will go to the person next in line until there's no one left and then it's the local government's problem.
- accept on the condition the inheritance is a net-positive. You also need to register this with the court. You settle the estate (figure out the debts of the estate, find where the money is, sell the valuables) if the result is positive it's for you, if the result is negative, it's divided among the creditors. In this situation you are allowed to sell the jewelry to benefit the estate but you can't take your parents wedding ring for yourself until everything is settled and you've accepted the result.
- accept the inheritance, whatever the outcome. If you take anything for yourself before the estate is settled, you "act as an heir" and you're automatically stuck with it regardless of the result.

Many people choose to accept the inheritance because they're so attached to family heirlooms and other material things. In my family we've always been open about money so I hope that should one of my parents die in debt, they'd give me the photo albums and wedding rings before their death.

A question:

If the estate has a negative net worth, does this mean the beneficiary has liability?    I think there's a rule like this in Quebec, but it may be the executor who's liable rather than the beneficiary.  (I don't live in Quebec.)

I'm not in Québec either, but yes, here if one accepts an inheritance unconditionally, you can end up with a negative net-worth estate and in that case you'd be legally liable.

In very exceptional circumstances an unconditional acceptance can be reversed to a conditional acceptance, but you'd need a judge's approval. A minor can only accept an inheritance conditionally, so they can't end up in debt. Also, student loans are tied to a person, they don't have to be paid out of the estate. But mortgages, credit card debt, bank loans, yes.

In other jurisdictions where an heir can't be held legally liable for the debts of an estate, what happens there? Can an heir walk away with the valuable parts of an estate without having to pay back the debt? If so, why would anyone take the risk of lending someone money if they can't recoup it after death?
In the UK the debts have to be paid out of the assets.  If the debts take up all the assets no-one inherits anything, it is all sold to pay the debts.  But if there is not enough in the estate to pay all the debts then some of them go unpaid, and in that case there are rules as to the order in which the debts are paid from the assets of the estate.  No-one can inherit a debt as such, but if for instance someone had been left a house that was subject to a mortgage they could agree to pay off the mortgage in order to inherit the house rather than the house being sold to pay off the mortgage.

AMandM

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2975 on: August 04, 2022, 03:47:26 PM »
In other jurisdictions where an heir can't be held legally liable for the debts of an estate, what happens there? Can an heir walk away with the valuable parts of an estate without having to pay back the debt? If so, why would anyone take the risk of lending someone money if they can't recoup it after death?

IANAL, but my understanding is that in the US, debts have to be repaid using the decedent's assets before anything gets distributed to the heir(s).  If the estate has a negative net worth, the heirs won't get anything because the valuable parts of the estate will be used/sold to repay as much debt as possible.

lemanfan

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2976 on: August 05, 2022, 01:28:25 AM »
In other jurisdictions where an heir can't be held legally liable for the debts of an estate, what happens there? Can an heir walk away with the valuable parts of an estate without having to pay back the debt? If so, why would anyone take the risk of lending someone money if they can't recoup it after death?

Sweden:  The estate (Swedish "dödsbo", or older "stärbhus") is a separate legal person that is created upon the death of the physical person.  If the assets on the day of the death are not enough to cover the debts and other liabilities, it can be placed in bankruptcy - and the assets are then divided by the bankruptcy proceedings among the parties that are owed money.  Once all proceedings are over, the estate "person" is dissolved. The heirs get nothing.

In this case, if a heir has taken any asset out of the estate before the proceedings are done and over, they will be held legally liable to pay back the value of what they took to the estate.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2022, 01:30:11 AM by lemanfan »

former player

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2977 on: August 05, 2022, 02:17:48 AM »
I seem to be alone in thinking that sometimes being an adult means stepping up and doing your bit to make the world run a little more smoothly.  Good to know.

This is such a strange thing to be aggressively sanctimonious about.  An inheritance is a gift.  If someone offers you a gift that you don't want, it is okay to say, "no, thank you".  There's nothing "not adult" about that.  If the person that started this strange thread drift doesn't accept the house, there is almost certainly someone else who will.  "Hey aunt, we don't want the house; it's yours".  And yet you seem intent on making this some sort of selfish, lazy, self-involved decision that will lead to decaying crack houses of undetermined ownership.
Turning down an inheritance isn't a problem, the problem would be in refusing to deal with it at all so that it just rots in limbo or forces someone else to take on the job that the will leaves to the person refusing the responsibility: that would probably mean that other person having to start a legal action to get the proper authority: potentially time wasting and expensive and making someone clear up something which is properly for someone else to do.  It might be slightly less complicated if there is no will but there is still an expectation of the next of kin taking on the job and the court/other authority having to be satisfied as to why they are not.

In the last resort if there is no next of kin or no-one willing to take on the responsibility then some form of government can probably take on the job, but how and when will they know it is needed?  Maybe the government can sell the property to cover its costs or maybe the taxpayer ends up paying.

In the past abandoned property wasn't much of a problem because property ownership was not as widespread and inheritors and next of kin were not so rich they would turn down an inheritance in most cases.   Abandoned properties have become more of an issue in the past few decades and that will probably grow into the future with a higher proportion of property owners and smaller and more fractured families.  But it's a waste of resources to leave a house to rot: bad for the locality, bad for society and bad for the planet.  And not taking the time and trouble to deal properly with a house's contents, maximising reuse and resale and minimising waste, is also bad for the environment.  Of course there are situations of abuse and neglect and family trauma that can make it understandable not to want to do this, but in general mustachians should be the people most likely to have the time and resources and motivation to do the thing properly for their deceased next of kin.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2978 on: August 05, 2022, 04:58:11 AM »
In other jurisdictions where an heir can't be held legally liable for the debts of an estate, what happens there? Can an heir walk away with the valuable parts of an estate without having to pay back the debt? If so, why would anyone take the risk of lending someone money if they can't recoup it after death?

IANAL, but my understanding is that in the US, debts have to be repaid using the decedent's assets before anything gets distributed to the heir(s).  If the estate has a negative net worth, the heirs won't get anything because the valuable parts of the estate will be used/sold to repay as much debt as possible.
Estate law in the USA varies by state, but generally this is how it works. The heirs aren't responsible for the debts, but they can't collect on the assets until the debts have been paid by the estate. In some cases there are exceptions made for e.g., covering funeral expenses.

talltexan

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2979 on: August 05, 2022, 09:16:17 AM »
Of course, creditors know this, which makes it harder for older folks to secure loans.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2980 on: August 05, 2022, 12:15:17 PM »
In other jurisdictions where an heir can't be held legally liable for the debts of an estate, what happens there? Can an heir walk away with the valuable parts of an estate without having to pay back the debt? If so, why would anyone take the risk of lending someone money if they can't recoup it after death?

Sweden:  The estate (Swedish "dödsbo", or older "stärbhus") is a separate legal person that is created upon the death of the physical person.  If the assets on the day of the death are not enough to cover the debts and other liabilities, it can be placed in bankruptcy - and the assets are then divided by the bankruptcy proceedings among the parties that are owed money.  Once all proceedings are over, the estate "person" is dissolved. The heirs get nothing.

In this case, if a heir has taken any asset out of the estate before the proceedings are done and over, they will be held legally liable to pay back the value of what they took to the estate.

In the US, as I understand it, holding on to grandma's wedding right is technically against the law if she owes more in debts than the value of her estate.  Everything has to be dissolved, people paid, and then the rest is distributed as per the will (or the law, if there is no will).  But once the balances reach $0, debt isn't inheritable unless it is something you signed for (like cosigning on a mortgage or having a joint credit card).

My parents can't anymore make me pay their debts (when they die) then  you or any other stranger can make me pay them.  They pay them (after they are gone) with money in their accounts and from liquidating their assets, after that, the creditors are out of luck.

Imma

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2981 on: August 06, 2022, 04:14:20 AM »
In other jurisdictions where an heir can't be held legally liable for the debts of an estate, what happens there? Can an heir walk away with the valuable parts of an estate without having to pay back the debt? If so, why would anyone take the risk of lending someone money if they can't recoup it after death?

Sweden:  The estate (Swedish "dödsbo", or older "stärbhus") is a separate legal person that is created upon the death of the physical person.  If the assets on the day of the death are not enough to cover the debts and other liabilities, it can be placed in bankruptcy - and the assets are then divided by the bankruptcy proceedings among the parties that are owed money.  Once all proceedings are over, the estate "person" is dissolved. The heirs get nothing.

In this case, if a heir has taken any asset out of the estate before the proceedings are done and over, they will be held legally liable to pay back the value of what they took to the estate.

In the US, as I understand it, holding on to grandma's wedding right is technically against the law if she owes more in debts than the value of her estate.  Everything has to be dissolved, people paid, and then the rest is distributed as per the will (or the law, if there is no will).  But once the balances reach $0, debt isn't inheritable unless it is something you signed for (like cosigning on a mortgage or having a joint credit card).

My parents can't anymore make me pay their debts (when they die) then  you or any other stranger can make me pay them.  They pay them (after they are gone) with money in their accounts and from liquidating their assets, after that, the creditors are out of luck.

Sounds like it's actually not really that different in my country compared to other countries, exept here heirs have to make the decision early on whether to accept the estate regardless of the outcome or whether you want to accept the inheritance only if it's a net-positive.

I have to add that in the Netherlands people are usually quite open about money so most people will know what to expect. So they'll know whether it's safe to accept unconditionally or not. I would absolutely accept my mother's estate unconditionally, but for my in-laws we'd have to go with a conditional acceptance.

TomTX

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2982 on: August 06, 2022, 08:59:02 AM »
In other jurisdictions where an heir can't be held legally liable for the debts of an estate, what happens there? Can an heir walk away with the valuable parts of an estate without having to pay back the debt? If so, why would anyone take the risk of lending someone money if they can't recoup it after death?

Sweden:  The estate (Swedish "dödsbo", or older "stärbhus") is a separate legal person that is created upon the death of the physical person.  If the assets on the day of the death are not enough to cover the debts and other liabilities, it can be placed in bankruptcy - and the assets are then divided by the bankruptcy proceedings among the parties that are owed money.  Once all proceedings are over, the estate "person" is dissolved. The heirs get nothing.

In this case, if a heir has taken any asset out of the estate before the proceedings are done and over, they will be held legally liable to pay back the value of what they took to the estate.

In the US, as I understand it, holding on to grandma's wedding right is technically against the law if she owes more in debts than the value of her estate.  Everything has to be dissolved, people paid, and then the rest is distributed as per the will (or the law, if there is no will).  But once the balances reach $0, debt isn't inheritable unless it is something you signed for (like cosigning on a mortgage or having a joint credit card).

My parents can't anymore make me pay their debts (when they die) then  you or any other stranger can make me pay them.  They pay them (after they are gone) with money in their accounts and from liquidating their assets, after that, the creditors are out of luck.

All financial accounts should have a "payable on death" beneficiary. This typically allows the account to bypass the estate/probate in the USA.  Jewelry and such can be gifted before death - last year my Dad distributed his coin collection and some long-unused jewelry.

Again, different states have different laws.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2022, 09:16:25 AM by TomTX »

Sugaree

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2983 on: August 10, 2022, 02:00:41 PM »
Maybe not exactly drama, but my 9 year-old informed me the other day that he'll be inheriting his grandparents' house.  How am I supposed to threaten him with living in a van down by the river if he knows he already knows he has a has a house??


In all seriousness, I did caution him that a lot of things could happen between now. 

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2984 on: August 10, 2022, 03:32:50 PM »
Maybe not exactly drama, but my 9 year-old informed me the other day that he'll be inheriting his grandparents' house.  How am I supposed to threaten him with living in a van down by the river if he knows he already knows he has a has a house??


In all seriousness, I did caution him that a lot of things could happen between now.
LOL!  Did you inform him that even a free house costs money (taxes, maintenance, etc)?

Freedomin5

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2985 on: August 10, 2022, 04:34:08 PM »
Maybe not exactly drama, but my 9 year-old informed me the other day that he'll be inheriting his grandparents' house.  How am I supposed to threaten him with living in a van down by the river if he knows he already knows he has a has a house??


In all seriousness, I did caution him that a lot of things could happen between now.

Don't count your chickens before they hatch. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Also, just because grandparents have said it, it doesn't mean anything unless your 9-year-old has seen their will, which is what I would tell my kiddo if she said something so presumptuous. :D

Also, I'd tell my kid that means she has to be REALLY NICE to her grandparents from now on to make sure she doesn't get taken out of their will. LOL!

Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2986 on: August 10, 2022, 04:55:17 PM »
Also, if they run out of money to pay for their end-of-life care, the state can glom on to that sucker in a heartbeat.

Imma

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2987 on: August 11, 2022, 12:14:59 AM »
After reading through this entire thread, I decided to update my will. The beneficiaries are one capable adult that I would trust with my life and two vulnerable adults. At least one of them is getting closer and closer to a baaaad family member, who has caused inheritance dramas that would be great for this thread. I was not directly a part of those dramas but watched them from the sideline. It has happened enough times that it's a pattern. The family member and I are not in touch and I'm pretty sure they hate me, but they'd love to get their hands on my money! They're nosy enough that they'd want to figure out where it comes from too, so they'd want to go through all of the books to "make sure the others weren't stealing anything" but really just to figure out whether I've got a sugar daddy or won the lottery. The whole concept of spending less than you make would be way over their head. They've also sued executors of an estate more times than I can count (sometimes several times over one inheritance).

We've changed our will in such a manner that the capable adults will make all the decisions and the vulnerable adults only get a check and specific items, and they can't object to that. The capable adult has absolutely no interest in *stuff*  so if possible I'm sure they will try to involve the vulnerable adults in the whole process of clearing out my house etc. But if the bad family member will start to meddle, they can just decide to send them grandma's wedding ring and the money and not involve the vulnerable adults at all. Obviously, if one of my heirs decides to send the money to that bad family member afterwards, that's out of my hands, but I feel like at least I've tried to protect all of their heirs from drama as much as I can.

Villanelle

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2988 on: August 11, 2022, 08:59:35 AM »
After reading through this entire thread, I decided to update my will. The beneficiaries are one capable adult that I would trust with my life and two vulnerable adults. At least one of them is getting closer and closer to a baaaad family member, who has caused inheritance dramas that would be great for this thread. I was not directly a part of those dramas but watched them from the sideline. It has happened enough times that it's a pattern. The family member and I are not in touch and I'm pretty sure they hate me, but they'd love to get their hands on my money! They're nosy enough that they'd want to figure out where it comes from too, so they'd want to go through all of the books to "make sure the others weren't stealing anything" but really just to figure out whether I've got a sugar daddy or won the lottery. The whole concept of spending less than you make would be way over their head. They've also sued executors of an estate more times than I can count (sometimes several times over one inheritance).

We've changed our will in such a manner that the capable adults will make all the decisions and the vulnerable adults only get a check and specific items, and they can't object to that. The capable adult has absolutely no interest in *stuff*  so if possible I'm sure they will try to involve the vulnerable adults in the whole process of clearing out my house etc. But if the bad family member will start to meddle, they can just decide to send them grandma's wedding ring and the money and not involve the vulnerable adults at all. Obviously, if one of my heirs decides to send the money to that bad family member afterwards, that's out of my hands, but I feel like at least I've tried to protect all of their heirs from drama as much as I can.

Something to discuss with a lawyer, if you haven't already, is either specifically mentioning that BadFamilyMember gets nothing (or leaving them one specific and relatively inexpensive item or amount), and/or including a clause that anyone who sues over the will receives nothing.  The former can be helpful in making intentions clear if it is a close family member, and the latter can disincentivize the greedy lawsuits. 

Captain FIRE

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2989 on: August 11, 2022, 10:16:58 AM »
Something to discuss with a lawyer, if you haven't already, is either specifically mentioning that BadFamilyMember gets nothing (or leaving them one specific and relatively inexpensive item or amount), and/or including a clause that anyone who sues over the will receives nothing.  The former can be helpful in making intentions clear if it is a close family member, and the latter can disincentivize the greedy lawsuits.

Ooof.  Ok, if you want to dissuade them from suing, there needs to be more motivation than "one specific and relatively inexpensive item or amount".  Otherwise, see it from their viewpoint: "I sue and I get a lot if I win - but I might forfeit this inexpensive item if I lose?"  Not much downside for them in suing in that case. 

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2990 on: August 11, 2022, 11:48:31 AM »
Something to discuss with a lawyer, if you haven't already, is either specifically mentioning that BadFamilyMember gets nothing (or leaving them one specific and relatively inexpensive item or amount), and/or including a clause that anyone who sues over the will receives nothing.  The former can be helpful in making intentions clear if it is a close family member, and the latter can disincentivize the greedy lawsuits.

Ooof.  Ok, if you want to dissuade them from suing, there needs to be more motivation than "one specific and relatively inexpensive item or amount".  Otherwise, see it from their viewpoint: "I sue and I get a lot if I win - but I might forfeit this inexpensive item if I lose?"  Not much downside for them in suing in that case.
Well, they *do* lose the costs of bringing the suit as well.  It turns it into "I could fight it, pay lots of legal bills, and still may lose, OR I could just go along with it and have a guaranteed XX." It sweetens the pot for not contesting the will

Mighty Eyebrows

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2991 on: August 11, 2022, 11:58:08 AM »
Something to discuss with a lawyer, if you haven't already, is either specifically mentioning that BadFamilyMember gets nothing (or leaving them one specific and relatively inexpensive item or amount), and/or including a clause that anyone who sues over the will receives nothing.  The former can be helpful in making intentions clear if it is a close family member, and the latter can disincentivize the greedy lawsuits.

Under the rules we have here in BC (Canada), as long as someone like that is not considered a dependent, it is better not to mention them at all in the will. As soon as someone's name is written in the will, they have the right to see the text and challenge it. If the state does not consider them to be a "usual" dependent, it would be much harder for them to challenge your will if they don't appear in it.

Obviously, rules are different in different places.

Imma

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2992 on: August 11, 2022, 12:45:23 PM »
After reading through this entire thread, I decided to update my will. The beneficiaries are one capable adult that I would trust with my life and two vulnerable adults. At least one of them is getting closer and closer to a baaaad family member, who has caused inheritance dramas that would be great for this thread. I was not directly a part of those dramas but watched them from the sideline. It has happened enough times that it's a pattern. The family member and I are not in touch and I'm pretty sure they hate me, but they'd love to get their hands on my money! They're nosy enough that they'd want to figure out where it comes from too, so they'd want to go through all of the books to "make sure the others weren't stealing anything" but really just to figure out whether I've got a sugar daddy or won the lottery. The whole concept of spending less than you make would be way over their head. They've also sued executors of an estate more times than I can count (sometimes several times over one inheritance).

We've changed our will in such a manner that the capable adults will make all the decisions and the vulnerable adults only get a check and specific items, and they can't object to that. The capable adult has absolutely no interest in *stuff*  so if possible I'm sure they will try to involve the vulnerable adults in the whole process of clearing out my house etc. But if the bad family member will start to meddle, they can just decide to send them grandma's wedding ring and the money and not involve the vulnerable adults at all. Obviously, if one of my heirs decides to send the money to that bad family member afterwards, that's out of my hands, but I feel like at least I've tried to protect all of their heirs from drama as much as I can.

Something to discuss with a lawyer, if you haven't already, is either specifically mentioning that BadFamilyMember gets nothing (or leaving them one specific and relatively inexpensive item or amount), and/or including a clause that anyone who sues over the will receives nothing.  The former can be helpful in making intentions clear if it is a close family member, and the latter can disincentivize the greedy lawsuits.

I'm in Europe so it all works a bit differently here. We don't mention people we don't want to leave anything to, and I don't think it's legal to include a clause that anyone who sues over the will gets nothing. Succesfully contesting a will is extremely difficult here and almost impossible if you're not a spouse or child of the deceased (and I don't have children) so I'm not too worried about that. Just about all the drama that this person will create if given the slightest opportunity to do so.

This person isn't even really in for the money for herself, just someone who likes to stir up trouble and be the "good person" that someone else leans on for support. They're also extremely nosy and they would just love to literally go through my underwear drawer and my credit card statements to see if there's anything juicy there. This lady thrives on drama and scandal.

What I think she'd do is try to stir up trouble between the two vulnerable heirs and encourage them to fight the other over money and stuff. By appointing a reasonable adult as executor, neither of the vulnerable adults have to deal with the practicalities of the inheritance. The only thing they need to do is collect it. Our executor will not be fazed by angry phonecalls, long letters and threats of court. She's managed to interfere herself into several inheritance wars where she was never an heir and managed to stir up enough trouble that no one in the family is speaking to eachother anymore, but she's never managed to succesfully contest an inheritance, she's always been immediately dismissed in court.

To succesfully contest an inheritance she'd have to prove that I wasn't of sound mind when I made up my will or that it wasn't witnessed correctly. Both of which are not an issue. If a will was succesfully contested, the judge would almost certainly rule that it should go to those who'd inherit if I died without a will - and that would be those same two vulnerable adults. It would never go to the drama queen relative in any case.

Literally the only things I would want to leave this particular relative is a wooden stake, a bunch of garlic and a vial of holy water so I'm glad the rules are different here.

Villanelle

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2993 on: August 11, 2022, 01:05:07 PM »
Something to discuss with a lawyer, if you haven't already, is either specifically mentioning that BadFamilyMember gets nothing (or leaving them one specific and relatively inexpensive item or amount), and/or including a clause that anyone who sues over the will receives nothing.  The former can be helpful in making intentions clear if it is a close family member, and the latter can disincentivize the greedy lawsuits.

Ooof.  Ok, if you want to dissuade them from suing, there needs to be more motivation than "one specific and relatively inexpensive item or amount".  Otherwise, see it from their viewpoint: "I sue and I get a lot if I win - but I might forfeit this inexpensive item if I lose?"  Not much downside for them in suing in that case.

Sorry, i wasn't clear.  The "if you sue you get nothing" was in reference to the person that might be swayed by BadFamilyMamber, but that Imma does seem to want to leave something significant.  That would be incentive for her not to sue (potentially urged on by the greedy other party) because they do have something to lose if they do so.   The "leave something insignificant" was a provision I often hear discussed to make it very clear that you wanted someone to get that and only that, and that they weren't forgotten or otherwise accidentally left out, and would apply to BFM.  Two different approaches, for different situations/relationships/intentions. 

But that's also why I mentioned discussing the possibilities with a lawyer to see if either of these strategies are appropriate. 

Imma

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2994 on: August 11, 2022, 03:15:29 PM »
I feel like the vulnerable adults can't help being vulnerable, they didn't choose the circumstances of their life. Being vulnerable actually means they need this money more than other people, because the options to earn money themselves are limited. This kind of money could provide someone with a modest roof over their head or help with medical bills for therapies that aren't covered by insurance. It's a life changing amount for someone on disability. It's just such a shame that many vulnerable people are surrounded by vultures and there's only so much you can do to keep them away. I don't expect to die anytime soon but by appointing a trustworthy executor I also hope to introduce some good influence in their life, like a mentor, who could tell them there are better options than letting the bad family member "invest" the money for them or something like that.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2995 on: August 11, 2022, 04:36:20 PM »
Literally the only things I would want to leave this particular relative is a wooden stake, a bunch of garlic and a vial of holy water so I'm glad the rules are different here.
Careful: he or she might misconstrue your intent and use the inheritance on you directly.

MayDay

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2996 on: August 13, 2022, 06:10:33 AM »
Lots of interesting conversation spurred by FIL's house!

In this case H is the executor of the will and will not abandon that responsibility, but it is annoying to suddenly go from what we thought would be simple (comb through house for important documents, hire junk company to deal with stuff, walk away) to selling a house.

As all 4 of our parents get closer to dying and all have fairly simple estates but own property, etc, it's overwhelming thinking about dealing with it! H is the responsible child in his family so he is the executor for both (divorced) parents, and we don't live near them, and we both work FT in demanding jobs and have kids..... I hope they don't die for awhile.

Sugaree

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2997 on: August 15, 2022, 09:26:13 AM »
Maybe not exactly drama, but my 9 year-old informed me the other day that he'll be inheriting his grandparents' house.  How am I supposed to threaten him with living in a van down by the river if he knows he already knows he has a has a house??


In all seriousness, I did caution him that a lot of things could happen between now.

Don't count your chickens before they hatch. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Also, just because grandparents have said it, it doesn't mean anything unless your 9-year-old has seen their will, which is what I would tell my kiddo if she said something so presumptuous. :D

Also, I'd tell my kid that means she has to be REALLY NICE to her grandparents from now on to make sure she doesn't get taken out of their will. LOL!

This is pretty much what I told him.  My husband wasn't at all surprised when I told him what the kid said, so I think there's probably something to it.  Who knows what the situation will look like next month or next year.  I can't remember if I've mentioned my BIL on the anti-mustacian hall-of-fame thread about relatives, but it's a doozy.  I've always placed the odds of him sucking them dry at greater than zero.  At which point, my husband and I will be taking care of them because they live next door.

charis

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2998 on: August 15, 2022, 11:04:23 AM »
Maybe not exactly drama, but my 9 year-old informed me the other day that he'll be inheriting his grandparents' house.  How am I supposed to threaten him with living in a van down by the river if he knows he already knows he has a has a house??


In all seriousness, I did caution him that a lot of things could happen between now.

Don't count your chickens before they hatch. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Also, just because grandparents have said it, it doesn't mean anything unless your 9-year-old has seen their will, which is what I would tell my kiddo if she said something so presumptuous. :D

Also, I'd tell my kid that means she has to be REALLY NICE to her grandparents from now on to make sure she doesn't get taken out of their will. LOL!

This is pretty much what I told him.  My husband wasn't at all surprised when I told him what the kid said, so I think there's probably something to it. Who knows what the situation will look like next month or next year.  I can't remember if I've mentioned my BIL on the anti-mustacian hall-of-fame thread about relatives, but it's a doozy.  I've always placed the odds of him sucking them dry at greater than zero.  At which point, my husband and I will be taking care of them because they live next door.

Um, what?  I have so many questions.

Sugaree

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2999 on: August 15, 2022, 11:14:55 AM »
Maybe not exactly drama, but my 9 year-old informed me the other day that he'll be inheriting his grandparents' house.  How am I supposed to threaten him with living in a van down by the river if he knows he already knows he has a has a house??


In all seriousness, I did caution him that a lot of things could happen between now.

Don't count your chickens before they hatch. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Also, just because grandparents have said it, it doesn't mean anything unless your 9-year-old has seen their will, which is what I would tell my kiddo if she said something so presumptuous. :D

Also, I'd tell my kid that means she has to be REALLY NICE to her grandparents from now on to make sure she doesn't get taken out of their will. LOL!

This is pretty much what I told him.  My husband wasn't at all surprised when I told him what the kid said, so I think there's probably something to it. Who knows what the situation will look like next month or next year.  I can't remember if I've mentioned my BIL on the anti-mustacian hall-of-fame thread about relatives, but it's a doozy.  I've always placed the odds of him sucking them dry at greater than zero.  At which point, my husband and I will be taking care of them because they live next door.

Um, what?  I have so many questions.

Honestly, I don't know if that means that the house that they live in is supposed to go to my husband and then to my son.  Or if it's supposed to go directly to my son.  I'll worry about it when, god forbid, something actually happens to them.  The will and/or executor has been changed several times in the last few years.  I'm not playing that game and I wish they wouldn't do that to my kid.  And like I said, there's still the matter of my BIL, who needs more economic outpatient care than we do.