Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.

[Kitsune]

... they were too broke to get divorced.

I have heard that from significantly younger people (thinking of one specific friend who said that 8 years ago - they're still together, he's still an inconsiderate ass, she's still miserable...). And that's one of the main reasons I want to always have a decent cushion and options.

For the record: I love my husband, we have a great relationship, I have every intention of being with him forever and plan for that, and I believe he feels the same way, based on both words and actions. BUT if that ceases to be the case and we can't fix it... Well. In short: staying with/sleeping with someone you don't like because you can't afford to leave is likely less profitable than an hourly rate. Don't be in that situation. Options. OPTIONS.

[iris lily]

Reading Grimsqeaker’s list of who is likely to blame in estrangements, it doesn't  help me figure out what happened in DH’s family. His niece stopped speaking to her parents ten years ago, about the time she graduated from college.
[...]
Before she went to college she was really tied to her mothers apron strings, So this pulling apart is doubly odd.

Could it be that it had to be all or nothing? Maybe the mother couldn't/wouldn't let the daughter be independent, so she had to sever all ties? Just speculating.

I have thought about that, and it’s possible, but I do think of something more than that.

Estrangement is what happens when at least one half of the estranged pair believes that the maximum safe level of contact is zero. Whether the belief has a basis in fact-- whether the person who insists on and then enforces zero contact-- depends a lot on how both sides of the estranged pair handle boundaries.

A lot of families don't do boundaries well, and kids who grow up in those families generally end up thinking that their only available options for relationships are "close and unhealthy" or "zero". In reality there's plenty of spots in between that can sometimes be viable. There are plenty of families that allow one or more people to bulldoze over children's boundaries without ever crossing the line into the kind of abuse that gets legal authorities involved.

 I think you are probably on the right track about my niece’s situation.

Her parents are strong personalities. Probably they did not respect her boundaries. Probably she thought at the time when she was only 21 years old that her only option was to pull out of that relationship entirely.

Probably now 10 years later in her early 30s she can negotiate boundaries better, but after 10 years of not speaking to her parents it is now habit. And  there’s probably some embarrassment and unsureness on her part as to how to step back into relationship p-lite with them.  Her mom is not against speaking to her and her mom opens the door occasionally with a card to her.

It is funny that DH just spent a few days with his family and he finds his sister, the mother of said niece, self centered and annoying. I have asked him “have you ever spoken about your annoyance with your niece, I’ll bet she would be somewhat gratified to know that!” But he has not.

We do have a relationship with niece probably more so than DH’s  other siblings.

[Imma]

My sister used to work at a (nice) retirement home. And there were some people who were estranged from their kids. Sometimes she said you could tell why from their personalities why (they were a pill to everyone), other times, you couldn't. But what she said was far more common was kids who weren't estranged but just didn't have time for the parent(s) anymore. They would get a call on their birthday, maybe come by once a year around christmas, but other than that their kids didn't visit. Some of the kids lived nearby (within an hour). Of course doesn't know everything but according to my sister some of these people were really sweet, and she thought it was so sad they seemed forgotten by their children. If anything I think my sister got a little over-involved while she was dining room manager there, because she loved to schedule and plan various events and activities during the holidays and hang out with them and let them talk and reminisce.

Maybe those people were never close to their kids, even when they were still young? I can imagine you're not suddenly going to have a close relationship with someone just because they're now old.

My mother and siblings are not bad people but we're not super close. I will always visit my mother and probably a bit more than now if she was old and lonely in a care home somewhere, but I can't imagine I would suddenly start visiting her 3 times a week just because she was old now.

I regret not being close to anyone in my family but I guess that's the way it's going to stay. I'm actively estranged from my father, but I'm in touch with all my siblings and my mother. I visit my mother once every two months, she visits me once a year (she moved away to start a new life after the kids left home).  We call every 2 weeks oe so and she'll tell me everything about her life and doesn't remember about mine. I see my siblings a few times a year when I happen to be in their town. We get together at Christmas because we want to have a relationship with each other, but we just sit around the table having awkward silences. I know many of my friends have similar relationships with their family, I imagine many of those people in that care home have families like this too.

There's one sibling I'm more close to than anyone in my family but we're still not extremely close. We talk more about personal things but we sometimes still don't speak in months. It is what it is and happy families like on TV are rare.

[ender]

The cutting-off behavior is extremely common in families where there's addiction or abuse. In those families, people who behave badly are always entitled to the relationship and/or resources they want from the people they mistreat, no matter what. If you want to participate in family activities, you're required to (a) tolerate abuse, (b) not talk about it, and (c) help protect the person who's continuing to dish it out. Only the problem person's experience matters, and the rest of the family is so used to tiptoeing around the most dramatic and destructive individual that if someone on the receiving end of bad behavior dares to speak up or to protect himself/herself, that person is punished by being excluded from the family.

The other very common behavior is for the person who wants to live an abuse-free life to be the one to build some distance into the relationship. If the rest of the family tries to pressure the escapee to kowtow and to submit to more abuse, it's generally because every single person applying the pressure is in full flying monkey mode. Many of them like to feel like they are accomplishing something extremely good by reeling the escaped punching bag back in so that the toxic or abusive person can have another go. Others are tired of wiping the butt of whoever is screwing up, and realize that if they can bulldoze over the escapee's boundaries they can substitute the human escapee to be used as human toilet paper.

A third very common behavior is for someone to go into a snit and cut off friends or family members as a manipulation tool: "if you don't do this for me, or if you don't give me that, then you'll never see me again." My daughter was always cutting off friends or relatives to punish them for asserting their own boundaries. When she did it to me at age 18, I happily gave her all of her belongings and helped her move out, but her resolve to have nothing to do with me evaporated once she wanted money. There are lots of people who behave this way: when they well runs dry and they can't take anything more from you, or if you need something from them or are politely holding them accountable for their behavior, they find a reason to end contact until there's something else they want.

From the outside looking in, it can be extremely hard to tell whether the person ending the contact is the abusive or manipulative person. My general rule is to look at the person doing the cutting off. Do they have *any* old friends, family members, or community members with whom they are consistently in contact? If the answer is no, that person is likely to be the problem. Likewise, are they basically functioning or are they dependent on others? If they're dependent on others and are not consistently self-supporting, the isolated person has probably burned through a lot of other supporters and do-gooders before they got to you. There are bound to be mutual friends and acquaintances; asking around to see whether a person whose opinion and character you trust has been burned by that individual is often a good way to tell whether you should invite the exiled individual into your life.

Adding to this, one thing most people do is assume everyone else in the world is roughly similar to them in pretty much all regards socially. If you are "normal" you assume that some people are nicer than average and some people are a bit quirky/difficult, but the idea that someone/family could be to toxic enough to justify fully cutting out from the family is normally not immediately believable. There are many reasons why it may be "worth it" to cut someone from your life. But those reasons will be very difficult for people in "normal" social situations to understand.

[LilyFleur]

No drama at all from the other heir--my sibling. The hardest part has been transferring some rather small yearly royalty/commission earnings.  I have resolved to not overly complicate my investments so that it is not time-consuming for my children. The hard part about an inheritance is that every time I tacked the paperwork, it brought back the grief of losing my parents.  I am very close to my children, and my death will be very very difficult for them. I do not want to add to their sorrow by making their inheritance more difficult than it needs to be.

[AlanStache]

re identifying the mean person:

Growing up and into adulthood I have had significant problems with my aunt B, she can be quite nice and is materially generous and outgoing with many long term friends.  My mom did not see issues I had with B, I tried verbalizing them and had assumed it was all obvious but talking with my mom now she did not see it (mom feels really bad about it all).  My other aunt J did thankfully see the stuff with B. 

Before about a year ago when all this came to a head and I formally cut B out of my life, an outsider looking into the situation might not have understood the history of why I would not choose to visit B.  The outsider might have concluded I was just being lazy or uninterested in maintaining family connections.  People are complex imperfect beings and they often misinterpret communications. 

[merula]

Late to the party, but here's one point of anecdata about a child who cut off her parents for no real reason:

I met this friend (call her Anna) in college. Nice enough person, ended up dating my then-bf's roommate, so we all spent a lot of time together. She was one of those people who loved to be "quirky", and she had a tendency for the dramatic, but not to any extreme extent.

Anna would always complain about her parents, and say that XYZ thing that they did was all because of being "overbearing" older, adoptive parents. But the stuff she would say was stuff like, "they called me to check in, like they do EVERY weekend". Stuff my parents, who were neither older nor adoptive, did all the time. Or, like "I was home for Christmas and they wanted me to wake up to go out for breakfast with them!". Yeah, admittedly annoying when you're used to a college sleep schedule, but not unexpected.

We've drifted apart since college, but we're still FB friends, and Anne occasionally posts stuff like "FYI, I'm not in touch with my parents, so if they contact you asking if I'm OK, don't tell them anything." While it's true that you can never know what goes on in another family, given her flair for the dramatic, if there was something else going on like abuse, I have no doubt at all she would've shared it with me.

I don't think Anne herself has any severe personality issues; I think she's just convinced herself that her parents are bad parents and proceeds accordingly.

[A Fella from Stella]

Late to the party, but here's one point of anecdata about a child who cut off her parents for no real reason:

I met this friend (call her Anna) in college. Nice enough person, ended up dating my then-bf's roommate, so we all spent a lot of time together. She was one of those people who loved to be "quirky", and she had a tendency for the dramatic, but not to any extreme extent.

Anna would always complain about her parents, and say that XYZ thing that they did was all because of being "overbearing" older, adoptive parents. But the stuff she would say was stuff like, "they called me to check in, like they do EVERY weekend". Stuff my parents, who were neither older nor adoptive, did all the time. Or, like "I was home for Christmas and they wanted me to wake up to go out for breakfast with them!". Yeah, admittedly annoying when you're used to a college sleep schedule, but not unexpected.

We've drifted apart since college, but we're still FB friends, and Anne occasionally posts stuff like "FYI, I'm not in touch with my parents, so if they contact you asking if I'm OK, don't tell them anything." While it's true that you can never know what goes on in another family, given her flair for the dramatic, if there was something else going on like abuse, I have no doubt at all she would've shared it with me.

I don't think Anne herself has any severe personality issues; I think she's just convinced herself that her parents are bad parents and proceeds accordingly.

Geez, talk about wanting attention. Hey 740 FB friends, I don't talk to my parents, so if they reach out to you, tell them nothing.

[BeanCounter]

Late to the party, but here's one point of anecdata about a child who cut off her parents for no real reason:

I met this friend (call her Anna) in college. Nice enough person, ended up dating my then-bf's roommate, so we all spent a lot of time together. She was one of those people who loved to be "quirky", and she had a tendency for the dramatic, but not to any extreme extent.

Anna would always complain about her parents, and say that XYZ thing that they did was all because of being "overbearing" older, adoptive parents. But the stuff she would say was stuff like, "they called me to check in, like they do EVERY weekend". Stuff my parents, who were neither older nor adoptive, did all the time. Or, like "I was home for Christmas and they wanted me to wake up to go out for breakfast with them!". Yeah, admittedly annoying when you're used to a college sleep schedule, but not unexpected.

We've drifted apart since college, but we're still FB friends, and Anne occasionally posts stuff like "FYI, I'm not in touch with my parents, so if they contact you asking if I'm OK, don't tell them anything." While it's true that you can never know what goes on in another family, given her flair for the dramatic, if there was something else going on like abuse, I have no doubt at all she would've shared it with me.

I don't think Anne herself has any severe personality issues; I think she's just convinced herself that her parents are bad parents and proceeds accordingly.

Geez, talk about wanting attention. Hey 740 FB friends, I don't talk to my parents, so if they reach out to you, tell them nothing.

Yeah. In my non clinical opinion, it actually screams personality disorder.
I've always wondered what causes people to air all their dirty laundry on FB. Weird.

[merula]

Geez, talk about wanting attention. Hey 740 FB friends, I don't talk to my parents, so if they reach out to you, tell them nothing.

Yeah. In my non clinical opinion, it actually screams personality disorder.
I've always wondered what causes people to air all their dirty laundry on FB. Weird.

You know, it's probably a bigger comment on the state of the world that what seems to me to be normal social media behavior also seems like a personality disorder.

It's only happened a handful of times; her posts outside of that are generally pretty benign. (Event photos, relationship appreciation, food, etc.)

[Sibley]

Geez, talk about wanting attention. Hey 740 FB friends, I don't talk to my parents, so if they reach out to you, tell them nothing.

Yeah. In my non clinical opinion, it actually screams personality disorder.
I've always wondered what causes people to air all their dirty laundry on FB. Weird.

You know, it's probably a bigger comment on the state of the world that what seems to me to be normal social media behavior also seems like a personality disorder.

It's only happened a handful of times; her posts outside of that are generally pretty benign. (Event photos, relationship appreciation, food, etc.)

Her actions of complaining about what seems to be normal, loving parenting is what seems off to me. Then her cutting them off, regardless of how open she is about it on FB - I'd guess there's something going on with her. Given she's adopted, she could have issues around that.

[mm1970]

re identifying the mean person:

Growing up and into adulthood I have had significant problems with my aunt B, she can be quite nice and is materially generous and outgoing with many long term friends.  My mom did not see issues I had with B, I tried verbalizing them and had assumed it was all obvious but talking with my mom now she did not see it (mom feels really bad about it all).  My other aunt J did thankfully see the stuff with B. 

Before about a year ago when all this came to a head and I formally cut B out of my life, an outsider looking into the situation might not have understood the history of why I would not choose to visit B.  The outsider might have concluded I was just being lazy or uninterested in maintaining family connections.  People are complex imperfect beings and they often misinterpret communications.

Sometimes, people just want out and want to take the high road. I have a good friend who was in a very long term relationship with a man who was divorced and had two kids.  They lived together for awhile, they were probably together for a decade?  She got used to being a family, having the boys on weekends with him, etc.  So, he was kind of self-centered, childish guy.  In the end, things didn't work out because he was kind of a jerk and she got sick of it.  Also, comments like "well, you want to have kids, and I don't want any more.  So if you leave me and have a kid, then we'll just end up back together.  But I don't want to raise someone else's kid."  (Which was all sorts of crazy.)

Well,  they had a lot of mutual friends, and she took the high road when it ended, and refused to bad mouth him for all the things he'd done.   So he tells all the friends that she's breaking up for no good reason.  Thus, she's the bad guy.  (Nevermind that "I don't want to be with him anymore" is a FINE reason.

[Dollar Slice]

Sometimes, people just want out and want to take the high road. I have a good friend who was in a very long term relationship with a man who was divorced and had two kids.  They lived together for awhile, they were probably together for a decade?  She got used to being a family, having the boys on weekends with him, etc.  So, he was kind of self-centered, childish guy.  In the end, things didn't work out because he was kind of a jerk and she got sick of it.  Also, comments like "well, you want to have kids, and I don't want any more.  So if you leave me and have a kid, then we'll just end up back together.  But I don't want to raise someone else's kid."  (Which was all sorts of crazy.)

Well,  they had a lot of mutual friends, and she took the high road when it ended, and refused to bad mouth him for all the things he'd done.   So he tells all the friends that she's breaking up for no good reason.  Thus, she's the bad guy.  (Nevermind that "I don't want to be with him anymore" is a FINE reason.

Wow, a close friend of mine went through almost this exact scenario! Fewer years, but very similar with helping raise his kids in part-time custody from a previous marriage, him being kind of a jerk to her, etc. I think he was one of those men who think showering a woman with money and gifts and luxury gets you out of having to be a decent person.

Difference being, they worked at the same company and he had been there longer and all their co-workers kept telling her she should give him another chance or go to couples counseling after she broke up with him. He got really creepy/weird about it. She ended up quitting her job to get away from it all.

[Dicey]

Sometimes, people just want out and want to take the high road. I have a good friend who was in a very long term relationship with a man who was divorced and had two kids.  They lived together for awhile, they were probably together for a decade?  She got used to being a family, having the boys on weekends with him, etc.  So, he was kind of self-centered, childish guy.  In the end, things didn't work out because he was kind of a jerk and she got sick of it.  Also, comments like "well, you want to have kids, and I don't want any more.  So if you leave me and have a kid, then we'll just end up back together.  But I don't want to raise someone else's kid."  (Which was all sorts of crazy.)

Well,  they had a lot of mutual friends, and she took the high road when it ended, and refused to bad mouth him for all the things he'd done.   So he tells all the friends that she's breaking up for no good reason.  Thus, she's the bad guy.  (Nevermind that "I don't want to be with him anymore" is a FINE reason.

Wow, a close friend of mine went through almost this exact scenario! Fewer years, but very similar with helping raise his kids in part-time custody from a previous marriage, him being kind of a jerk to her, etc. I think he was one of those men who think showering a woman with money and gifts and luxury gets you out of having to be a decent person.

Difference being, they worked at the same company and he had been there longer and all their co-workers kept telling her she should give him another chance or go to couples counseling after she broke up with him. He got really creepy/weird about it. She ended up quitting her job to get away from it all.

I hope She found a better job and a better dude.

Random musing: the first thing I wonder about in these estranged-for-no-obvious reason cases is abuse, typically, but not exclusively, sexual.

[RetiredAt63]

Random musing: the first thing I wonder about in these estranged-for-no-obvious reason cases is abuse, typically, but not exclusively, sexual.

Not necessarily.  I took the high road when I left Ex, just told people we had grown apart and had different goals.  Which was true. But underneath, it wasn't any one big thing, just a lot of little things that added up to "get out".  The book "Too good to leave, too bad to stay" was a real eye-opener for me.

BTW, he didn't want anyone (well mainly his friends) to know I had left him, and when people asked where I was he told them a major lie. Which was an interesting character reveal.

[Dicey]

Random musing: the first thing I wonder about in these estranged-for-no-obvious reason cases is abuse, typically, but not exclusively, sexual.

Not necessarily.  I took the high road when I left Ex, just told people we had grown apart and had different goals.  Which was true. But underneath, it wasn't any one big thing, just a lot of little things that added up to "get out".  The book "Too good to leave, too bad to stay" was a real eye-opener for me.

BTW, he didn't want anyone (well mainly his friends) to know I had left him, and when people asked where I was he told them a major lie. Which was an interesting character reveal.

I'm not disagreeing, just clarifying. Earlier, the discussion was more on children who ghost their parents. I wasn't thinking about partner splits. Sorry your ex did such a jerky thing, but I suppose it might have been a small comfort, underscoring that you made the best decision for yourself.

[mm1970]

Sometimes, people just want out and want to take the high road. I have a good friend who was in a very long term relationship with a man who was divorced and had two kids.  They lived together for awhile, they were probably together for a decade?  She got used to being a family, having the boys on weekends with him, etc.  So, he was kind of self-centered, childish guy.  In the end, things didn't work out because he was kind of a jerk and she got sick of it.  Also, comments like "well, you want to have kids, and I don't want any more.  So if you leave me and have a kid, then we'll just end up back together.  But I don't want to raise someone else's kid."  (Which was all sorts of crazy.)

Well,  they had a lot of mutual friends, and she took the high road when it ended, and refused to bad mouth him for all the things he'd done.   So he tells all the friends that she's breaking up for no good reason.  Thus, she's the bad guy.  (Nevermind that "I don't want to be with him anymore" is a FINE reason.

Wow, a close friend of mine went through almost this exact scenario! Fewer years, but very similar with helping raise his kids in part-time custody from a previous marriage, him being kind of a jerk to her, etc. I think he was one of those men who think showering a woman with money and gifts and luxury gets you out of having to be a decent person.

Difference being, they worked at the same company and he had been there longer and all their co-workers kept telling her she should give him another chance or go to couples counseling after she broke up with him. He got really creepy/weird about it. She ended up quitting her job to get away from it all.

Yeah, they had a LOT of mutual friends, and it got really awkward.  All the friends telling her to give him another chance and all, when they weren't privy to the details.

[RetiredAt63]

Random musing: the first thing I wonder about in these estranged-for-no-obvious reason cases is abuse, typically, but not exclusively, sexual.

Not necessarily.  I took the high road when I left Ex, just told people we had grown apart and had different goals.  Which was true. But underneath, it wasn't any one big thing, just a lot of little things that added up to "get out".  The book "Too good to leave, too bad to stay" was a real eye-opener for me.

BTW, he didn't want anyone (well mainly his friends) to know I had left him, and when people asked where I was he told them a major lie. Which was an interesting character reveal.

I'm not disagreeing, just clarifying. Earlier, the discussion was more on children who ghost their parents. I wasn't thinking about partner splits. Sorry your ex did such a jerky thing, but I suppose it might have been a small comfort, underscoring that you made the best decision for yourself.

We had sort of drifted away from parent/child.  But it is amazing how much mental abuse can be hidden in a relationship (parent/child/couples) until a person gets away from the situation and things become clearer.  I can certainly see how a child could assume that things in his/her family were normal until they got out into the world more and saw how other families work. 

Reading Captain Awkward has been a real education for me.

[Sibley]

We had sort of drifted away from parent/child.  But it is amazing how much mental abuse can be hidden in a relationship (parent/child/couples) until a person gets away from the situation and things become clearer.  I can certainly see how a child could assume that things in his/her family were normal until they got out into the world more and saw how other families work. 

Reading Captain Awkward has been a real education for me.

Go to reddit, search for JustNoTalk. Raised by narcissists is another one.  (I used to recommend JustNoMIL and the related subs, but there's some issues with the mod team there and am not comfortable sending anyone there anymore.)

[Freedomin5]

Not really a drama...yet, but it does make one want to facepalm....

DH is the most successful of his siblings (He did marry a Mustachian after all:P). We are well on our way to FIRE, have a stable marriage, stable careers, intact family. His other two siblings live in housing owned by their parents. One has a mental illness and hasn’t worked in the past...15 years or so? Single parent. History of substance abuse.

DH recently found out that he is probably going to get very little or nothing from his parents because “he doesn’t need the money”. They will probably leave it all to the sibling with a severe mental illness. As a lump sum. To do with as they want.

When we first got married, DH told me his parents would split their assets equally. I told him not to count on it. They were going to think that he married into money and wouldn’t need their money anymore. My family is not really rich; we are finance people though and my parents have been quite wise with their money so we are comfortable.

DH and I aren’t surprised by this turn of events, as DH and I had already planned on investing his portion to support his sibling if it had been split three ways. Now we are rethinking our strategy as we will likely need to support the sibling after they blow through all the money. We will just have to build the cost of covering their basic living expenses into our FIRE budget. And be prepared that a portion of our time in FIRE will be helping them navigate the different government systems and programs.

We’re not upset or anything. It’s just interesting to read of smart people deciding NOT to leave everything to the child with mental illness who is unable of taking responsibility for managing their own life....and contrasting it to our current experience.

[DadJokes]

Not really a drama...yet, but it does make one want to facepalm....

DH is the most successful of his siblings (He did marry a Mustachian after all:P). We are well on our way to FIRE, have a stable marriage, stable careers, intact family. His other two siblings live in housing owned by their parents. One has a mental illness and hasn’t worked in the past...15 years or so? Single parent. History of substance abuse.

DH recently found out that he is probably going to get very little or nothing from his parents because “he doesn’t need the money”. They will probably leave it all to the sibling with a severe mental illness. As a lump sum. To do with as they want.

When we first got married, DH told me his parents would split their assets equally. I told him not to count on it. They were going to think that he married into money and wouldn’t need their money anymore. My family is not really rich; we are finance people though and my parents have been quite wise with their money so we are comfortable.

DH and I aren’t surprised by this turn of events, as DH and I had already planned on investing his portion to support his sibling if it had been split three ways. Now we are rethinking our strategy as we will likely need to support the sibling after they blow through all the money. We will just have to build the cost of covering their basic living expenses into our FIRE budget. And be prepared that a portion of our time in FIRE will be helping them navigate the different government systems and programs.

We’re not upset or anything. It’s just interesting to read of smart people deciding NOT to leave everything to the child with mental illness who is unable of taking responsibility for managing their own life....and contrasting it to our current experience.

Maybe he can convince the parents to set up a special needs trust for the sibling instead. The sibling still gets the benefit of the money, but can't just blow through it all.

[Sugaree]

Not really a drama...yet, but it does make one want to facepalm....

DH is the most successful of his siblings (He did marry a Mustachian after all:P). We are well on our way to FIRE, have a stable marriage, stable careers, intact family. His other two siblings live in housing owned by their parents. One has a mental illness and hasn’t worked in the past...15 years or so? Single parent. History of substance abuse.

DH recently found out that he is probably going to get very little or nothing from his parents because “he doesn’t need the money”. They will probably leave it all to the sibling with a severe mental illness. As a lump sum. To do with as they want.

When we first got married, DH told me his parents would split their assets equally. I told him not to count on it. They were going to think that he married into money and wouldn’t need their money anymore. My family is not really rich; we are finance people though and my parents have been quite wise with their money so we are comfortable.

DH and I aren’t surprised by this turn of events, as DH and I had already planned on investing his portion to support his sibling if it had been split three ways. Now we are rethinking our strategy as we will likely need to support the sibling after they blow through all the money. We will just have to build the cost of covering their basic living expenses into our FIRE budget. And be prepared that a portion of our time in FIRE will be helping them navigate the different government systems and programs.

We’re not upset or anything. It’s just interesting to read of smart people deciding NOT to leave everything to the child with mental illness who is unable of taking responsibility for managing their own life....and contrasting it to our current experience.

Is there any particular reason that you have to support the sibling?  I've made it perfectly clear to DH that I will not be supporting his brother.  His parents still say that they will split everything equally, but I have my doubts that will ever happen.  They've handed over money to BIL in large chunks more than once (the latest request was for $40k and they tried to sell a house that was supposed to be DH's to do so) and have been paying his rent for at least 5 years now.  I suspect that there won't be much left to split and even if there was, it will go to BIL because "he needs it more."   I get that the situation is different because BIL doesn't have a severe MI, but at some point you have to save yourself before you save others.

[Freedomin5]

Not really a drama...yet, but it does make one want to facepalm....

DH is the most successful of his siblings (He did marry a Mustachian after all:P). We are well on our way to FIRE, have a stable marriage, stable careers, intact family. His other two siblings live in housing owned by their parents. One has a mental illness and hasn’t worked in the past...15 years or so? Single parent. History of substance abuse.

DH recently found out that he is probably going to get very little or nothing from his parents because “he doesn’t need the money”. They will probably leave it all to the sibling with a severe mental illness. As a lump sum. To do with as they want.

When we first got married, DH told me his parents would split their assets equally. I told him not to count on it. They were going to think that he married into money and wouldn’t need their money anymore. My family is not really rich; we are finance people though and my parents have been quite wise with their money so we are comfortable.

DH and I aren’t surprised by this turn of events, as DH and I had already planned on investing his portion to support his sibling if it had been split three ways. Now we are rethinking our strategy as we will likely need to support the sibling after they blow through all the money. We will just have to build the cost of covering their basic living expenses into our FIRE budget. And be prepared that a portion of our time in FIRE will be helping them navigate the different government systems and programs.

We’re not upset or anything. It’s just interesting to read of smart people deciding NOT to leave everything to the child with mental illness who is unable of taking responsibility for managing their own life....and contrasting it to our current experience.

Maybe he can convince the parents to set up a special needs trust for the sibling instead. The sibling still gets the benefit of the money, but can't just blow through it all.

Why yes, we did suggest that. Trusts are apparently “too good to be true” and you can’t trust that the person who administers the trust won’t steal all your money.

We also suggested purchasing an annuity with sibling as the beneficiary. But no, that is too good to be true! What company would keep paying until the beneficiary dies?! Apparently, annuities are scams.

[DadJokes]

Not really a drama...yet, but it does make one want to facepalm....

DH is the most successful of his siblings (He did marry a Mustachian after all:P). We are well on our way to FIRE, have a stable marriage, stable careers, intact family. His other two siblings live in housing owned by their parents. One has a mental illness and hasn’t worked in the past...15 years or so? Single parent. History of substance abuse.

DH recently found out that he is probably going to get very little or nothing from his parents because “he doesn’t need the money”. They will probably leave it all to the sibling with a severe mental illness. As a lump sum. To do with as they want.

When we first got married, DH told me his parents would split their assets equally. I told him not to count on it. They were going to think that he married into money and wouldn’t need their money anymore. My family is not really rich; we are finance people though and my parents have been quite wise with their money so we are comfortable.

DH and I aren’t surprised by this turn of events, as DH and I had already planned on investing his portion to support his sibling if it had been split three ways. Now we are rethinking our strategy as we will likely need to support the sibling after they blow through all the money. We will just have to build the cost of covering their basic living expenses into our FIRE budget. And be prepared that a portion of our time in FIRE will be helping them navigate the different government systems and programs.

We’re not upset or anything. It’s just interesting to read of smart people deciding NOT to leave everything to the child with mental illness who is unable of taking responsibility for managing their own life....and contrasting it to our current experience.

Maybe he can convince the parents to set up a special needs trust for the sibling instead. The sibling still gets the benefit of the money, but can't just blow through it all.

Why yes, we did suggest that. Trusts are apparently “too good to be true” and you can’t trust that the person who administers the trust won’t steal all your money.

We also suggested purchasing an annuity with sibling as the beneficiary. But no, that is too good to be true! What company would keep paying until the beneficiary dies?! Apparently, annuities are scams.

Well, annuities are scams in that the fees are generally ridiculous. However, it can be useful if the beneficiary is not capable of handling the money. Would the parents trust y'all to administer the trust?

I'm guessing not, based on their decisions so far. It's terrible when those we love won't listen to sound advice.

[SwordGuy]

We have a mentally handicapped daughter (Down syndrome) who can't provide for herself thru no fault of her own.  We also have a son who is perfectly capable of taking care of himself and his family.

We made it very clear ages ago that our priority #1 was to make sure our daughter would be well provided for.   He's a good son and brother and that makes perfect sense to him.

It's really only been the last 5 years that we realized that there is a good chance there will be enough for her and a very sizeable portion left over for him.  We're in the process of setting up our wills.   She'll get a set dollar amount or 50%, whichever is greater.  He'll get the rest.  If our portfolio grew nicely and medical bills didn't eat it up, that will be a lot of money. If not, he might get nothing.  Her portion will go into a trust.  She won't own the trust, she'll own a life interest in the income it provides.  When she dies the money will revert to our son or his descendants.   

I think the reason for the unequal distribution is very different than just taking care of people because they are too damn lazy to do so for themselves, or too damn spoiled to live within their means.

It just doesn't make a lot of sense to reinforce failure instead of success.  But, then again, doing that for many years is how you get overaged children in the first place, I guess.

[Freedomin5]

Is there any particular reason that you have to support the sibling?  I've made it perfectly clear to DH that I will not be supporting his brother.  His parents still say that they will split everything equally, but I have my doubts that will ever happen.  They've handed over money to BIL in large chunks more than once (the latest request was for $40k and they tried to sell a house that was supposed to be DH's to do so) and have been paying his rent for at least 5 years now.  I suspect that there won't be much left to split and even if there was, it will go to BIL because "he needs it more."   I get that the situation is different because BIL doesn't have a severe MI, but at some point you have to save yourself before you save others.

Because we’ve already saved ourselves. We have our own oxygen masks on. And we can’t just let the sibling end up homeless on the street with the kid (nephew)...and we can’t live with ourselves if they ended up in public housing in some unsafe area of town while we are comfortably ensconced in our luxury condo/townhouse while spending the summers at our cottage. Sibling is the type who will completely be taken advantage of by unsavory characters.  It’s not their fault they grew up in an abusive home and have a family history of mental illness and drew the short end of the stick in terms of developing a mental illness and have parents whose financial abilities are questionable at best.

Obviously, we will not be buying them a penthouse suite overlooking the lake, but we will do our best to ensure that they are fed, clothed, and housed (in a Separate residence from us - that’s not really frugal, but it does set boundaries and allow me to maintain my sanity).

[Freedomin5]

Not really a drama...yet, but it does make one want to facepalm.

 (Snip)

Maybe he can convince the parents to set up a special needs trust for the sibling instead. The sibling still gets the benefit of the money, but can't just blow through it all.

Why yes, we did suggest that. Trusts are apparently “too good to be true” and you can’t trust that the person who administers the trust won’t steal all your money.

We also suggested purchasing an annuity with sibling as the beneficiary. But no, that is too good to be true! What company would keep paying until the beneficiary dies?! Apparently, annuities are scams.

Well, annuities are scams in that the fees are generally ridiculous. However, it can be useful if the beneficiary is not capable of handling the money. Would the parents trust y'all to administer the trust?

I'm guessing not, based on their decisions so far. It's terrible when those we love won't listen to sound advice.

In their minds, DH and I will make off with all their money. DH’s mom told him over 10 years ago that I was with him just so I could take all his money and then divorce him...because I’m a visible minority and not from the same culture as DH, so obviously I’m poor. She stopped saying that when I drove up in my parents’ Acura to visit once, because my own dinky Toyota was in the shop. But his parents still worry that I will steal all the money, because I’m not “family” so I can’t be trusted. And DH can’t be trusted because he listens to me.

ETA: I wouldn’t want the job to administer the trust even if it was offered to me. Me stand between sibling and THEIR money! Having me control how much of their money they can access each month? That’s a disaster waiting to happen. It’s one thing if it’s My money that I’m using to clothe and house them. It’s another thing when I’m “not allowing them to access what is rightfully theirs”.

[Sugaree]

Is there any particular reason that you have to support the sibling?  I've made it perfectly clear to DH that I will not be supporting his brother.  His parents still say that they will split everything equally, but I have my doubts that will ever happen.  They've handed over money to BIL in large chunks more than once (the latest request was for $40k and they tried to sell a house that was supposed to be DH's to do so) and have been paying his rent for at least 5 years now.  I suspect that there won't be much left to split and even if there was, it will go to BIL because "he needs it more."   I get that the situation is different because BIL doesn't have a severe MI, but at some point you have to save yourself before you save others.

Because we’ve already saved ourselves. We have our own oxygen masks on. And we can’t just let the sibling end up homeless on the street with the kid (nephew)...and we can’t live with ourselves if they ended up in public housing in some unsafe area of town while we are comfortably ensconced in our luxury condo/townhouse while spending the summers at our cottage. Sibling is the type who will completely be taken advantage of by unsavory characters.  It’s not their fault they grew up in an abusive home and have a family history of mental illness and drew the short end of the stick in terms of developing a mental illness and have parents whose financial abilities are questionable at best.

Obviously, we will not be buying them a penthouse suite overlooking the lake, but we will do our best to ensure that they are fed, clothed, and housed (in a Separate residence from us - that’s not really frugal, but it does set boundaries and allow me to maintain my sanity).

Gotcha.  My experience with MI has been with people who choose not to treat for various reasons.  I am also not in a place where I ever see us providing the support that BIL has been getting while also not putting our own stability in jeopardy. 

[DadJokes]

Not really a drama...yet, but it does make one want to facepalm.

 (Snip)

Maybe he can convince the parents to set up a special needs trust for the sibling instead. The sibling still gets the benefit of the money, but can't just blow through it all.

Why yes, we did suggest that. Trusts are apparently “too good to be true” and you can’t trust that the person who administers the trust won’t steal all your money.

We also suggested purchasing an annuity with sibling as the beneficiary. But no, that is too good to be true! What company would keep paying until the beneficiary dies?! Apparently, annuities are scams.

Well, annuities are scams in that the fees are generally ridiculous. However, it can be useful if the beneficiary is not capable of handling the money. Would the parents trust y'all to administer the trust?

I'm guessing not, based on their decisions so far. It's terrible when those we love won't listen to sound advice.

In their minds, DH and I will make off with all their money. DH’s mom told him over 10 years ago that I was with him just so I could take all his money and then divorce him...because I’m a visible minority and not from the same culture as DH, so obviously I’m poor. She stopped saying that when I drove up in my parents’ Acura to visit once, because my own dinky Toyota was in the shop. But his parents still worry that I will steal all the money, because I’m not “family” so I can’t be trusted. And DH can’t be trusted because he listens to me.

ETA: I wouldn’t want the job to administer the trust even if it was offered to me. Me stand between sibling and THEIR money! Having me control how much of their money they can access each month? That’s a disaster waiting to happen. It’s one thing if it’s My money that I’m using to clothe and house them. It’s another thing when I’m “not allowing them to access what is rightfully theirs”.

Jeez...I would stay as far from that situation as possible.

I actually have a better relationship with my in-laws than I do with my own parents. I hate that it's a sour relationship for you.

[Freedomin5]

DH also has a better relationship with his in-laws than he does with his own parents. :D

In my culture, the daughter traditionally leaves her family and joins the husband’s family after marriage. My mom likes to say that instead of losing a daughter, she gained a son instead.

[pudding]

My fathers mother who I never really knew much met a man later in life and got married in her 70's.

He had no relatives and had money, he died before her.

When she died me and my sister went to her funeral and my sister became friendly with a cousin there that we hadn't known up until then. The cousin was my fathers sisters daughter.

Shortly after that funeral I moved to a new country.

About 3 years later my sister told me that she had stayed in touch with this cousin and the cousin had said to her how generous it was of our grandmother to 'give us money before she died'?

My sister asked what money was that as she had not received any.

The cousin replied that grandmother had given money to her adult children and also given money to them to be passed onto their adult children.. her grandchildren (that be me;)

But my father thinking that we wouldn't know about this as we didn't know that side of the family 'kept' the money for himself.

Thereby cheating both his children and his own mothers wish on her deathbed.

Such a lovely man my father is! 

[SwordGuy]

My fathers mother who I never really knew much met a man later in life and got married in her 70's.

He had no relatives and had money, he died before her.

When she died me and my sister went to her funeral and my sister became friendly with a cousin there that we hadn't known up until then. The cousin was my fathers sisters daughter.

Shortly after that funeral I moved to a new country.

About 3 years later my sister told me that she had stayed in touch with this cousin and the cousin had said to her how generous it was of our grandmother to 'give us money before she died'?

My sister asked what money was that as she had not received any.

The cousin replied that grandmother had given money to her adult children and also given money to them to be passed onto their adult children.. her grandchildren (that be me;)

But my father thinking that we wouldn't know about this as we didn't know that side of the family 'kept' the money for himself.

Thereby cheating both his children and his own mothers wish on her deathbed.

Such a lovely man my father is!

That's theft and fraud.   Have him cough up the money or go to jail.  Then have nothing else to do with him because if he'll steal from you like that, you don't need him in your life.

[Dicey]

My fathers mother who I never really knew much met a man later in life and got married in her 70's.

He had no relatives and had money, he died before her.

When she died me and my sister went to her funeral and my sister became friendly with a cousin there that we hadn't known up until then. The cousin was my fathers sisters daughter.

Shortly after that funeral I moved to a new country.

About 3 years later my sister told me that she had stayed in touch with this cousin and the cousin had said to her how generous it was of our grandmother to 'give us money before she died'?

My sister asked what money was that as she had not received any.

The cousin replied that grandmother had given money to her adult children and also given money to them to be passed onto their adult children.. her grandchildren (that be me;)

But my father thinking that we wouldn't know about this as we didn't know that side of the family 'kept' the money for himself.

Thereby cheating both his children and his own mothers wish on her deathbed.

Such a lovely man my father is!

That's theft and fraud.   Have him cough up the money or go to jail.  Then have nothing else to do with him because if he'll steal from you like that, you don't need him in your life.

It depends on what was written in her will. If it was just her verbal expectation, it won't be enforceable. If she gifted it before she died without written instructions, same deal.
There is a strong likelihood that someone who would do that hasn't held on to the money, alas. Personally, I'd be sure to let him know that I was aware of what he'd done, and I'm equally sure it wouldn't change anything. Now, if there were plural commas involved and there was anything substantial left, that would be another consideration.

[pudding]

My fathers mother who I never really knew much met a man later in life and got married in her 70's.

He had no relatives and had money, he died before her.

When she died me and my sister went to her funeral and my sister became friendly with a cousin there that we hadn't known up until then. The cousin was my fathers sisters daughter.

Shortly after that funeral I moved to a new country.


About 3 years later my sister told me that she had stayed in touch with this cousin and the cousin had said to her how generous it was of our grandmother to 'give us money before she died'?

My sister asked what money was that as she had not received any.

The cousin replied that grandmother had given money to her adult children and also given money to them to be passed onto their adult children.. her grandchildren (that be me;)

But my father thinking that we wouldn't know about this as we didn't know that side of the family 'kept' the money for himself.

Thereby cheating both his children and his own mothers wish on her deathbed.

Such a lovely man my father is!

That's theft and fraud.   Have him cough up the money or go to jail.  Then have nothing else to do with him because if he'll steal from you like that, you don't need him in your life.

It was about 27 years ago.

Yeah he's nuts!  I've got used to it over the years. And can trust him about as far as I can throw him, I think he's got some mental problems so I just learned to live with it.
He's done all kinds of wacky things over the years, it's like having a kind of abusive parent.... it's not sexual abuse, or particularly physical... it's more like he'd steal your inheritance, steal your girlfriend or wife, steal your child's affections by sh2t disturbing and gossiping behind your back.  Make your achievements look small and insignificant, and be quietly happy when you fail.

[Alfred J Quack]

That's theft and fraud.   Have him cough up the money or go to jail.  Then have nothing else to do with him because if he'll steal from you like that, you don't need him in your life.

To be fair, my grandfather passed a few years ago and bequethed both me and my children. The will stated that it was to be released to them at their 16th birthday but my father and his siblings opted to pay out the sum so that the inheritance could be wrapped up.

This meant I received my son's money on his behalf (my other son wasn't even born yet) with the understanding that I would release it at his 16th birthday. Although I have every intention to do so, if something were top happen to me beforehand it is likely that this will not be executed as my grandfather had wished. (there will be far lager sums for their inheritance though).

[Just Joe]

In their minds, DH and I will make off with all their money. DH’s mom told him over 10 years ago that I was with him just so I could take all his money and then divorce him...because I’m a visible minority and not from the same culture as DH, so obviously I’m poor. She stopped saying that when I drove up in my parents’ Acura to visit once, because my own dinky Toyota was in the shop. But his parents still worry that I will steal all the money, because I’m not “family” so I can’t be trusted. And DH can’t be trusted because he listens to me.

Isn't it interesting how much difference a CAR/SUV/pickup makes to some people. You drive a gas sipper and everyone makes one set of assumptions. You buy or borrow a nicer vehicle and now everything is different... Throw in certain brands - even used - and people assume you've either won the lottery or up to your nose in debt. People can be so weird.

[DadJokes]

In their minds, DH and I will make off with all their money. DH’s mom told him over 10 years ago that I was with him just so I could take all his money and then divorce him...because I’m a visible minority and not from the same culture as DH, so obviously I’m poor. She stopped saying that when I drove up in my parents’ Acura to visit once, because my own dinky Toyota was in the shop. But his parents still worry that I will steal all the money, because I’m not “family” so I can’t be trusted. And DH can’t be trusted because he listens to me.

Isn't it interesting how much difference a CAR/SUV/pickup makes to some people. You drive a gas sipper and everyone makes one set of assumptions. You buy or borrow a nicer vehicle and now everything is different... Throw in certain brands - even used - and people assume you've either won the lottery or up to your nose in debt. People can be so weird.

I once was present during a conversation in which a person talked about removing all of the brand logos from his vehicle because of some stigma attached to that brand. He seemed to think that removing all of the logos also made the car worth more.

I'm pretty sure the brand was Kia.

[Just Joe]

Hyundai and Kia both have some many different models (not a bad thing) that without their branding it could be hard to ID what the vehicle was.

Yeah, Kia was the cheapest of cheap at one time (Kia Sephia, Kia Spectra). These days they are okay in my book b/c I know Hyundai is involved in their design and manufacture.

All cars sold in the USA are pretty good in 2019. Aren't we lucky?

[Not There Yet]

My BF is an engineer for Hyundai/Kia.  They take quality seriously.

[Dicey]

In their minds, DH and I will make off with all their money. DH’s mom told him over 10 years ago that I was with him just so I could take all his money and then divorce him...because I’m a visible minority and not from the same culture as DH, so obviously I’m poor. She stopped saying that when I drove up in my parents’ Acura to visit once, because my own dinky Toyota was in the shop. But his parents still worry that I will steal all the money, because I’m not “family” so I can’t be trusted. And DH can’t be trusted because he listens to me.

Isn't it interesting how much difference a CAR/SUV/pickup makes to some people. You drive a gas sipper and everyone makes one set of assumptions. You buy or borrow a nicer vehicle and now everything is different... Throw in certain brands - even used - and people assume you've either won the lottery or up to your nose in debt. People can be so weird.

It's the cumulative effect of being bombarded with advertising.

[zolotiyeruki]

My BF is an engineer for Hyundai/Kia.  They take quality seriously.

The fact that I, as a lifelong Toyota/Honda driver, would seriously consider a Hyundai for my next car, speaks volumes about the progress they've made in terms of quality.

[Dave1442397]

My BF is an engineer for Hyundai/Kia.  They take quality seriously.

The fact that I, as a lifelong Toyota/Honda driver, would seriously consider a Hyundai for my next car, speaks volumes about the progress they've made in terms of quality.

Me too. I love the Hyundai G90, and it's been depreciating like a rock.

[Villanelle]

My BF is an engineer for Hyundai/Kia.  They take quality seriously.

The fact that I, as a lifelong Toyota/Honda driver, would seriously consider a Hyundai for my next car, speaks volumes about the progress they've made in terms of quality.

Yes.  In the very early 90s, my sister turned 16 and my parents bought her a car.  It was an early Hyundai and it seems like almost a plastic toy. 

We recently bought a new to us car--a 2016 Tucson.  That this is the same make as the little toy my sister drove around is almost impossible to believe!

[pachnik]

My BF is an engineer for Hyundai/Kia.  They take quality seriously.

The fact that I, as a lifelong Toyota/Honda driver, would seriously consider a Hyundai for my next car, speaks volumes about the progress they've made in terms of quality.

+1 - I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Hyundai either. 

[Candace]

I went from a Toyota Camry (20 years old) to lightly used Hyundai Sonata. Works for me.

[Just Joe]

I've owned two of the early Hyundai plastic toys. Both were dirt cheap to buy and maintain. Both were very neglected, very dirty and needed a little TLC when I bought them but they always did their job once the maintenance was done and they were cleaned.

I've rented newer Hyundais. Yes, they too are on my "approved list". I've never seen the Hyundai G90 before. Nice looking sedan!

[Alfred J Quack]

My BF is an engineer for Hyundai/Kia.  They take quality seriously.

The fact that I, as a lifelong Toyota/Honda driver, would seriously consider a Hyundai for my next car, speaks volumes about the progress they've made in terms of quality.

+1 - I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Hyundai either.

Hyundai i30 owner since 2015 here, 7 years old now. Great car for its pricetag and no major faults so far other than the ebrake sticking because it was parked too long for too often ;)

[zolotiyeruki]

My BF is an engineer for Hyundai/Kia.  They take quality seriously.

The fact that I, as a lifelong Toyota/Honda driver, would seriously consider a Hyundai for my next car, speaks volumes about the progress they've made in terms of quality.

+1 - I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Hyundai either.

Hyundai i30 owner since 2015 here, 7 years old now. Great car for its pricetag and no major faults so far other than the ebrake sticking because it was parked too long for too often ;)

At first I was like "hey, that math doesn't add up."  But then the mustachian side of my brain kicked in and realized you bought it used :P

[Dicey]

My BF is an engineer for Hyundai/Kia.  They take quality seriously.

The fact that I, as a lifelong Toyota/Honda driver, would seriously consider a Hyundai for my next car, speaks volumes about the progress they've made in terms of quality.

+1 - I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Hyundai either.

Hyundai i30 owner since 2015 here, 7 years old now. Great car for its pricetag and no major faults so far other than the ebrake sticking because it was parked too long for too often ;)

At first I was like "hey, that math doesn't add up."  But then the mustachian side of my brain kicked in and realized you bought it used :P

Lol, me too!

[Dicey]

My BF is an engineer for Hyundai/Kia.  They take quality seriously.

The fact that I, as a lifelong Toyota/Honda driver, would seriously consider a Hyundai for my next car, speaks volumes about the progress they've made in terms of quality.

Me too. I love the Hyundai G90, and it's been depreciating like a rock.

Why is that, do you think?