Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.

[Just Joe]

Plan ahead. The charity we tried to donate a bedroom suite to expects us to bring it to them. We don't have a vehicle that can do that so we'll have to give it to someone else.

[mtn]

My parents, and I as well, love to go to estate sales.

Go to any estate sale on the last day. Stuff is usually 50% off. Look at how much is still there, being sold for pennies on the dollar. Even nice stuff.

My wife and I just got 2 recliners, very good condition, for $500 total. Cost of them new? Over $2,000 EACH. My wife buys kitchen stuff like its going out of style at these things.

My parents, even though they still buy a lot at these things, are also getting rid of stuff quickly. They've basically told us (my brothers and I) that if we want something, tell them, otherwise it is liable to disappear.

And at the end of the estate sale, Salvation Army (or the charity of your choice) will show up and take everything for nothing on the dollar.  My parents' house was a truckload.

At my grandparents, they had a deal where the estate sale company basically gave them $3,000 for everything in the house, ran the sale from the house for 2 days, then took everything else to a junk shop. There were a few items that were separate from that deal (antique pedal car, highly collectible stereo, and one original oil painting), but otherwise it was $3,000.

I can't even begin to imagine the cost of everything new. Probably about $20k in furniture (over 65 years of marriage, remember) alone, clothes, kitchen stuff, golf clubs, decorations, etc.

And wanna know what probably sold for the most overall? The real junk that my aunt tried to throw away before my parents and the company stopped her. Half a bottle of rubbing alcohol. Half a roll of tape. Opened container of Solo cups. Which makes sense, those are the things that people will actually use. The special items all sold for their asking price, because we advertised them well, but everything else basically was given away.

[joleran]

And wanna know what probably sold for the most overall? The real junk that my aunt tried to throw away before my parents and the company stopped her. Half a bottle of rubbing alcohol. Half a roll of tape. Opened container of Solo cups. Which makes sense, those are the things that people will actually use.

Wait, what?  That seems difficult to believe, people showing up and bidding, what, 15 cents for half a bottle of rubbing alcohol?  I'd think it wouldn't be worth the time.

[mtn]

And wanna know what probably sold for the most overall? The real junk that my aunt tried to throw away before my parents and the company stopped her. Half a bottle of rubbing alcohol. Half a roll of tape. Opened container of Solo cups. Which makes sense, those are the things that people will actually use.

Wait, what?  That seems difficult to believe, people showing up and bidding, what, 15 cents for half a bottle of rubbing alcohol?  I'd think it wouldn't be worth the time.

Estate sale, not auction. Rubbing alcohol costs what, $8? Buy the mostly full bottle at the estate sale for $2. Same with the alcohol, oil in the garage, tape, etc.

The people go to the estate sale for something else, but while they're there see a package of AA batteries for $2, and throw them in the basket. Think about it--if you see a can of Off Bug Spray, or WD-40, what does it matter if it is half used? That stuff is expensive. Folks will buy it. I think that someone even bought bottles of shampoo and conditioner.

[Villanelle]

My parents, and I as well, love to go to estate sales.

Go to any estate sale on the last day. Stuff is usually 50% off. Look at how much is still there, being sold for pennies on the dollar. Even nice stuff.

My wife and I just got 2 recliners, very good condition, for $500 total. Cost of them new? Over $2,000 EACH. My wife buys kitchen stuff like its going out of style at these things.

My parents, even though they still buy a lot at these things, are also getting rid of stuff quickly. They've basically told us (my brothers and I) that if we want something, tell them, otherwise it is liable to disappear.

And at the end of the estate sale, Salvation Army (or the charity of your choice) will show up and take everything for nothing on the dollar.  My parents' house was a truckload.

This is what we did with my grandmother's condo after family had taken out valuables and sentimental items.  I think it was AMVETs, but they had no problem showing up with a truck and taking everything, even though surely lots of it was just trash.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

I actually just got some glorious news. I'm off the hook and no longer executor for an out-of-country estate.

My parents, who are not at all Mustachian anymore because they started making serious money later in life, wanted me to be the executor for their estate and to-- get this-- manage my estranged fuckup sibling's trust and dole out such money as he needs to continue enabling his cranially-rectally-inverted ways while still saddling me with the responsiblity of making sure the moron doesn't drink himself to death or throw a booze-filled tantrum and drive into someone who matters. After decades of enabling the little dipshit they wanted to drag me onto the codependent merry-go-round in their place. This is despite the fact I took off nearly twenty years ago and left the freaking country to avoid the stupid family drama.

Luckily, they found an estate lawyer who bitchslapped some sense into them. They aren't going to make my idiot sibling executor (said sibling went bankrupt without having actual bad life experiences, just bad financial decision making). We will be paying someone else to just liquidate everything in sight.

I am So. Fucking. Relieved.

[Sydneystache]

Congrats @TheGrimSqueaker! What a weight off your shoulders! You sometimes wonder how in the world you could ever be possibly related to them or came out of the same uterus.

[RetiredAt63]

Congrats @TheGrimSqueaker! What a weight off your shoulders! You sometimes wonder how in the world you could ever be possibly related to them or came out of the same uterus.

I was just looking at a birth order book - think Jimmy Carter and his brother Billy (American president and major goof-off.)  TGS, are you the older?

[BabyShark]

That's so great TGS! Congratulations, I bet it's a massive weight.

In that same vein, I was just talking to my mom because she needs to have all of her documents rewritten since dad passed.  I (and my two sisters) live out of state but Mom is still planning to name me as executrix.  That was always the plan but I'm a little wary on it. I fortunately don't have the issues that TGS does but I'm still wondering if I should recommend Mom have an instate, non-family member handle it.

[Pigeon]

reviewing these stories, I'm really seeing the argument for taking out enough life insurance that you can provide liquidity to siblings/heirs for buying out each others' stakes in a real estate-type property.

I guess I'm just not that sentimental.  I see absolutely no reason why the property shouldn't be sold off if one person wants to keep it and the others don't want to buy them out. 

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Congrats @TheGrimSqueaker! What a weight off your shoulders! You sometimes wonder how in the world you could ever be possibly related to them or came out of the same uterus.

I was just looking at a birth order book - think Jimmy Carter and his brother Billy (American president and major goof-off.)  TGS, are you the older?

Yes, by three years, however we were raised quite differently.

[RetiredAt63]

Congrats @TheGrimSqueaker! What a weight off your shoulders! You sometimes wonder how in the world you could ever be possibly related to them or came out of the same uterus.

I was just looking at a birth order book - think Jimmy Carter and his brother Billy (American president and major goof-off.)  TGS, are you the older?

Yes, by three years, however we were raised quite differently.

Being raised differently is a given.  I was the older, my parents learned on me (the experimental model/lab rat/guinea pig) and were much easier on my younger sister.  Both my parents were younger kids in their families, I don't think they had a clue about what it is like being the oldest.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Congrats @TheGrimSqueaker! What a weight off your shoulders! You sometimes wonder how in the world you could ever be possibly related to them or came out of the same uterus.

I was just looking at a birth order book - think Jimmy Carter and his brother Billy (American president and major goof-off.)  TGS, are you the older?

Yes, by three years, however we were raised quite differently.

Being raised differently is a given.  I was the older, my parents learned on me (the experimental model/lab rat/guinea pig) and were much easier on my younger sister.  Both my parents were younger kids in their families, I don't think they had a clue about what it is like being the oldest.

There was more to it in our family, it was downright odd in some respects but not something I feel comfortable discussing online since the other people aren't here to refute what I say or to present their own interpretations of events.

[talltexan]

@GrimSqueaker I'm in the opposite boat: only child, contemplating the approach of my parents' dotage (mom turned 70 this year) without any genuine emotional support from a sibling. My parents appear to have approached financial security, which is great, but the burdens of managing them through end of life may still be significant.

But I can see how having a cranium/rectum confused sibling might make things even worse.

[RetiredAt63]

Congrats @TheGrimSqueaker! What a weight off your shoulders! You sometimes wonder how in the world you could ever be possibly related to them or came out of the same uterus.

I was just looking at a birth order book - think Jimmy Carter and his brother Billy (American president and major goof-off.)  TGS, are you the older?

Yes, by three years, however we were raised quite differently.

Being raised differently is a given.  I was the older, my parents learned on me (the experimental model/lab rat/guinea pig) and were much easier on my younger sister.  Both my parents were younger kids in their families, I don't think they had a clue about what it is like being the oldest.

There was more to it in our family, it was downright odd in some respects but not something I feel comfortable discussing online since the other people aren't here to refute what I say or to present their own interpretations of events.

No problem, just thought it interesting that you were being cast in the typical oldest child responsible for everything role.  And lo and behold, you were the oldest. 

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Congrats @TheGrimSqueaker! What a weight off your shoulders! You sometimes wonder how in the world you could ever be possibly related to them or came out of the same uterus.

I was just looking at a birth order book - think Jimmy Carter and his brother Billy (American president and major goof-off.)  TGS, are you the older?

Yes, by three years, however we were raised quite differently.

Being raised differently is a given.  I was the older, my parents learned on me (the experimental model/lab rat/guinea pig) and were much easier on my younger sister.  Both my parents were younger kids in their families, I don't think they had a clue about what it is like being the oldest.

There was more to it in our family, it was downright odd in some respects but not something I feel comfortable discussing online since the other people aren't here to refute what I say or to present their own interpretations of events.

No problem, just thought it interesting that you were being cast in the typical oldest child responsible for everything role.  And lo and behold, you were the oldest.

What can I say: sometimes a stereotype has a basis in fact.

[Villanelle]

reviewing these stories, I'm really seeing the argument for taking out enough life insurance that you can provide liquidity to siblings/heirs for buying out each others' stakes in a real estate-type property.

I guess I'm just not that sentimental.  I see absolutely no reason why the property shouldn't be sold off if one person wants to keep it and the others don't want to buy them out.

This.  While I understand that 1 or 2 of 6 siblings (or whatever) might have emotional attachment to a home or farm or lake house, if they can't afford it, they can't afford it.  So if they can't pay the other siblings, the house is sold.  I wonder if it would help if something like this was laid out in the will.  "The house will be sold and the proceeds divided evenly between the 4 children. If any sibling or group of siblings is interested in purchasing the house, they can negotiate among each other.  If no agreement on price can be made within 120 days of my death, the house will be listed for sale."

I'm sure some families would still find ways to make it dramatic.  "You aren't even willing to negotiate!"  (Despite the fact that an offer is far less or more than market value.)  But at least that removes the pressure of thinking mom wanted the property kept in the family. 

My sister is the executor for my parents' estate.  She's out of state, but at the moment at least, I'm out of the country.  She's also the more organized one, though I'm sure both of us would do just fine.  I believe it entitles her to an extra bit of the estate (1%, maybe??), and I'm sure that will be money very well-earned. 

[Sydneystache]

AFAIK some of the rich business families (think multi-generational), now have clauses where if a relative wants to sell (property, shares etc), they have to offer it first to a relative to keep control in the family. This is to address problems where there are big family disputes and say a cousin, just to piss off the family, sells his/her share to the family's big rival and in the style of Dynasty or any soap opera, the rival buys out the original family's assets.

After a couple of generations, control gets diluted eg dividing a company amongst 50 cousins etc. so these clauses are vital say if you are from a Ford family or a Kennedy family type.

To keep on topic, I spoke to a friend today and she told me how her siblings' claws came out when she was made POA. While her mother has since passed away, the POA still is a cause of resentment in her family. A poisoned chalice for her if anything.

[Jenny1974]

When my Dad died, it came to our attention that he still had my sister and I listed on an IRA as beneficiaries (even though he had been remarried for some time).  I knew in my heart that he intended that money to go to his wife.  The beneficiary elections had been set up before he and my stepmother met when my sister and I were minors (I was 30 and my sister 34 when he died).

When the payout came, I took a couple thousand  of my half and put it in an account for my DD (Dad's granddaughter) as I knew he would like her to have something from him since she was so young when he died and signed the rest over to my stepmother.  My older sister (who has since passed) took the money and ran!  Being mustachian made it an easy choice for me as I didn't NEED the money and I know it really helped my stepmother survive after my Dad died. 

God help us all when my mother and stepfather pass.  My stepsister has already blown through the inheritance her mom left, doesn't work . . . and will be waiting with her hand out when the time comes.  I told my mom they need to have their wishes spelled out in stone as I'm not going to try to make responsible and fair decisions with someone who operates the way she does.

[rpr]

When the payout came, I took a couple thousand  of my half and put it in an account for my DD (Dad's granddaughter) as I knew he would like her to have something from him since she was so young when he died and signed the rest over to my stepmother.  My older sister (who has since passed) took the money and ran!  Being mustachian made it an easy choice for me as I didn't NEED the money and I know it really helped my stepmother survive after my Dad died. 

buchanaj -- What a wonderful gesture!! It is nice to hear stories of decency prevailing over greed. Thank you for doing the right thing.

[marion10]

Many years ago, we had a case at work where an employee has named his long term girl friend as beneficiary of an employer life insurance policy- however HR did not process it properly (did not get the required witness signatures) and the insurance company ruled it invalid and paid out to his siblings (there were several). They all turned the money over to the girlfriend.

[MgoSam]

Many years ago, we had a case at work where an employee has named his long term girl friend as beneficiary of an employer life insurance policy- however HR did not process it properly (did not get the required witness signatures) and the insurance company ruled it invalid and paid out to his siblings (there were several). They all turned the money over to the girlfriend.

That's good, otherwise it does sound like your company would face a serious lawsuit from the girlfriend.

[wevan]

reviewing these stories, I'm really seeing the argument for taking out enough life insurance that you can provide liquidity to siblings/heirs for buying out each others' stakes in a real estate-type property.

Yep.  When my mom and her three siblings inherited my grandpa's farm, one of them wanted ready cash instead.  Fortunately, the other three had enough money to partially buy her out, and she was fine with keeping some land - otherwise, there would've been problems with breaking up the farm.

(As it was, it's now technically divided into three equal sections and one smaller section, but still being managed together, which makes everything a lot easier.)

[TheGrimSqueaker]

reviewing these stories, I'm really seeing the argument for taking out enough life insurance that you can provide liquidity to siblings/heirs for buying out each others' stakes in a real estate-type property.

Yep.  When my mom and her three siblings inherited my grandpa's farm, one of them wanted ready cash instead.  Fortunately, the other three had enough money to partially buy her out, and she was fine with keeping some land - otherwise, there would've been problems with breaking up the farm.

(As it was, it's now technically divided into three equal sections and one smaller section, but still being managed together, which makes everything a lot easier.)

Some families use life insurance to balance out a lopsided estate so that no asset has to be divided or owned jointly. "OK, Johnny gets the house, Susie gets the investment property, and DeShawn gets the art collection, movable assets, and bank accounts" doesn't always ensure an equitable split. Insurance can even it out.

[BabyShark]

reviewing these stories, I'm really seeing the argument for taking out enough life insurance that you can provide liquidity to siblings/heirs for buying out each others' stakes in a real estate-type property.

Yep.  When my mom and her three siblings inherited my grandpa's farm, one of them wanted ready cash instead.  Fortunately, the other three had enough money to partially buy her out, and she was fine with keeping some land - otherwise, there would've been problems with breaking up the farm.

(As it was, it's now technically divided into three equal sections and one smaller section, but still being managed together, which makes everything a lot easier.)

Some families use life insurance to balance out a lopsided estate so that no asset has to be divided or owned jointly. "OK, Johnny gets the house, Susie gets the investment property, and DeShawn gets the art collection, movable assets, and bank accounts" doesn't always ensure an equitable split. Insurance can even it out.

Yup, that's essentially what my Dad did.  Older sister got one property, I got another property, Younger sister got life insurance policy essentially equal to the value of our properties so she could, in theory, buy her own.

[SwordGuy]

... but the burdens of managing them [parents] through end of life may still be significant.

But I can see how having a cranium/rectum confused sibling might make things even worse.

My mother-in-law went into the hospital this week.   At this point we don't know for sure whether she'll make it.  She's about 95.

I asked my lovely wife if her sister had shown up, or if they had even told her about the situation.

The response from her brother was, "She'll find out about it when she gets the letter from the executor of the estate."

After what the sister did when her father and aunt died, I can't find it in my heart to disagree with the decision of my wife and her two brothers.

[markbike528CBX]

........After what the sister did when her father and aunt died, I can't find it in my heart......

Please don't leave us hanging like that.   Could you find it in your heart to tell the story?

[SweetLife]

I loved my Mom very much... at her funeral our cousin came up to me and asked for a specific painting that my Mom had stored in the attic. AT THE FUNERAL...

I can't even remember my response. In the days after the funeral I told my brother what she's said. My brother said she did the same thing to my MOM at her Mother's (my Grandma's) funeral.

I don't care who is in that picture ... she isn't getting it.

Petty... yes I am.

[plainjane]

........After what the sister did when her father and aunt died, I can't find it in my heart......

Please don't leave us hanging like that.   Could you find it in your heart to tell the story?

earlier in the thread: http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/inheritance-drama-you-got-any-stories-wanted/msg1087471/#msg1087471

[markbike528CBX]

Thanks planejane!   There are so many bad sister stories, I forget which one is which.

[Sydneystache]

I loved my Mom very much... at her funeral our cousin came up to me and asked for a specific painting that my Mom had stored in the attic. AT THE FUNERAL...

I can't even remember my response. In the days after the funeral I told my brother what she's said. My brother said she did the same thing to my MOM at her Mother's (my Grandma's) funeral.

I don't care who is in that picture ... she isn't getting it.

Petty... yes I am.

That happened to my MIL. One of her nieces came up to ask for specific porcelain from her mother at the wake that was promised to her. She had just spent the last week organising the funeral. Talk about inappropriate and I understand why she was keen but jeez...don't know if she ever gave the porcelain though.

[notquitefrugal]

My state levies an inheritance tax on some distant relatives as well as all non-relatives who inherit as a result of a will, joint account, or transfer-on-death designation, but doesn't levy that tax on funds those same people receive as a result of being a beneficiary on a life insurance policy. I have no human dependents, but I still have life insurance to make things more flexible in terms of avoiding the state inheritance tax, both now and in the future. Life insurance is inexpensive at my age, but I will definitely reevaluate that decision when I am older and it becomes more expensive.

[Metric Mouse]

My state levies an inheritance tax on some distant relatives as well as all non-relatives who inherit as a result of a will, joint account, or transfer-on-death designation, but doesn't levy that tax on funds those same people receive as a result of being a beneficiary on a life insurance policy. I have no human dependents, but I still have life insurance to make things more flexible in terms of avoiding the state inheritance tax, both now and in the future. Life insurance is inexpensive at my age, but I will definitely reevaluate that decision when I am older and it becomes more expensive.

Aren't they also free from federal tax? This never occurred to me as a way to avoid estate tax/death tax. Interesting.

[iris lily]

My state levies an inheritance tax on some distant relatives as well as all non-relatives who inherit as a result of a will, joint account, or transfer-on-death designation, but doesn't levy that tax on funds those same people receive as a result of being a beneficiary on a life insurance policy. I have no human dependents, but I still have life insurance to make things more flexible in terms of avoiding the state inheritance tax, both now and in the future. Life insurance is inexpensive at my age, but I will definitely reevaluate that decision when I am older and it becomes more expensive.

Aren't they also free from federal tax? This never occurred to me as a way to avoid estate tax/death tax. Interesting.

My friend was the beneficiary of his motjer's life insurance policy. That was the only thing she was able to leave him since all of her assets were used in her nursing home care.

I never thought of that aspect of life insurance. It isnt useful to me since DH does not  need cash if I die, and it is not a priority to leave anyone else  money when I die. But that use f life insurance seemed practical.

[Spork]

My state levies an inheritance tax on some distant relatives as well as all non-relatives who inherit as a result of a will, joint account, or transfer-on-death designation, but doesn't levy that tax on funds those same people receive as a result of being a beneficiary on a life insurance policy. I have no human dependents, but I still have life insurance to make things more flexible in terms of avoiding the state inheritance tax, both now and in the future. Life insurance is inexpensive at my age, but I will definitely reevaluate that decision when I am older and it becomes more expensive.

You've probably handled this properly, but a general warning:  Many life insurance policies are structured like an annuity.  This makes them taxable on the federal level (and presumably also on some state levels).  And just because the insurance sales guy says the tax is inconsequential or non-existent, does not make it so.  (Life lesson recently learned.)

[BlueHouse]

My state levies an inheritance tax on some distant relatives as well as all non-relatives who inherit as a result of a will, joint account, or transfer-on-death designation, but doesn't levy that tax on funds those same people receive as a result of being a beneficiary on a life insurance policy. I have no human dependents, but I still have life insurance to make things more flexible in terms of avoiding the state inheritance tax, both now and in the future. Life insurance is inexpensive at my age, but I will definitely reevaluate that decision when I am older and it becomes more expensive.

I'm confused with how this is carried out on a joint account. How does anyone know what is inherited in a joint account vs what's already yours? 

[secondcor521]

My state levies an inheritance tax on some distant relatives as well as all non-relatives who inherit as a result of a will, joint account, or transfer-on-death designation, but doesn't levy that tax on funds those same people receive as a result of being a beneficiary on a life insurance policy. I have no human dependents, but I still have life insurance to make things more flexible in terms of avoiding the state inheritance tax, both now and in the future. Life insurance is inexpensive at my age, but I will definitely reevaluate that decision when I am older and it becomes more expensive.

I'm confused with how this is carried out on a joint account. How does anyone know what is inherited in a joint account vs what's already yours?

I don't know about notquitefrugal's state.  But I do know that it varies by whether or not your state is a community property state.  In my state, which is a community property state, 50% of the value of the joint account as of the date of death (including accrued but not paid interest; not like that is any real world factor, but I'm dealing with an attorney) is included for purposes of the estate valuation for estate tax purposes.

What happens in actual fact is the attorney asks the executor to calculate the number and provide it to them, then the attorney puts that number into a big long legal document, then the executor signs that document and then the attorney submits that document to the probate court as part of the estate settlement process.  One could guess or take shortcuts or lie, but I'm sure there is some sort of statement or oath the executor must make about accuracy and completeness.  So in our case we figured it properly to the penny; fortunately it was an account with little activity and no interest, so easy to calculate.

For Vanguard accounts, you can call up a special department there and they'll run a report for you that does essentially the same thing.  Weirdly, in my state one gets a step-up in the entire basis (not just half of the account's basis) to value as of date of death.  I don't know why, but that's what I was told to do when I looked into it.

Again, this all varies state to state, so even though people say a lot of stuff about how estates work, the answer in almost every case is to consult an estate attorney in the applicable state who comes with good recommendations.

[radram]

For Vanguard accounts, you can call up a special department there and they'll run a report for you that does essentially the same thing.  Weirdly, in my state one gets a step-up in the entire basis (not just half of the account's basis) to value as of date of death.  I don't know why, but that's what I was told to do when I looked into it.

So are you saying if I create a joint account that is a ratio of a million to 1, and then the $1 dies, the million gets stepped up in cost basis? I smell loophole :)

What is your state?

 

[secondcor521]

For Vanguard accounts, you can call up a special department there and they'll run a report for you that does essentially the same thing.  Weirdly, in my state one gets a step-up in the entire basis (not just half of the account's basis) to value as of date of death.  I don't know why, but that's what I was told to do when I looked into it.

So are you saying if I create a joint account that is a ratio of a million to 1, and then the $1 dies, the million gets stepped up in cost basis? I smell loophole :)

What is your state?

Idaho.

I think your "loophole" would work, but understand that the $1 person, while alive and a joint owner, has every right to sell "your" million and give it away or blow it on whatever.  It's also fairly easy to get a divorce in Idaho, and financials are usually split close to 50/50 regardless of who brings or earns the money, who does what with whom, and who decides to leave.

[Capsu78]

Just an uplifting inheritance story (sarc) to bump this thread:

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4367858/Evil-son-50-burnt-sister-alive-jailed-27-years.html

[protostache]

This isn't even an inheritance story, it's just gross. My father in law recently entered a nursing home. Yesterday he accepted an offer on his house (above asking, no inspection contingency, woohoo!) but that means we have to start cleaning it out and picking what things the four kids want before the rest either goes to auction or dumpster. We have until May 28th.

My brother in law and his wife have, for the entire time I've known them, been salivating over this day and I don't really understand why. There's nothing of value left in the house other than furniture and a few paintings that the other three kids have already split amongst themselves. BIL has said "he'll take whatever's left" but we've been pretty clear that anything left has to go to auction so it can help pay for FIL's nursing home. There's some decent furniture that would probably generate $1000 or more after auction fees.

BIL, through various shenanigans, on short notice forced today to be the day when all of this happens so my wife went early this morning to rescue the few important family heirlooms still in the house and things FIL wants before BIL gets there. Shortly before she left, BIL texted my wife and said "whole family is coming" when the other three siblings had communicated just yesterday that it was to be a siblings-only thing so they could get stuff done without kids in the way.

Turns out the only reason the whole family is coming is so they could bring two cars to haul away more stuff. Stuff that should be sold at auction for FIL's benefit. BIL also lied to my wife about my sister in law telling him it was ok. SIL is just as surprised and appalled as my wife.

I'm disgusted with their behavior. The man isn't dead! He's less than half an hour away from the house! Are they going to go visit him in the nursing home? Of course not. They're going to pack up his things and take them back to their house where they can sell it all at their leisure on eBay and keep the money for themselves.

As she was leaving my wife said that after FIL passes away we probably will never talk to BIL or his family every again, which sucks because they're the geographically closest family we have and I would like my daughter to have a relationship with her cousins.

[Just Joe]

Just an uplifting inheritance story (sarc) to bump this thread:

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4367858/Evil-son-50-burnt-sister-alive-jailed-27-years.html

That's horrible. I wished I had not read the link.

Protostache: I guess "free" goes a long, long way for some people. I've seen some people get unreasonably giddy about "free". Someone ought to remind BIL point blank that this sale is of FIL's things to fund the FIL's care and not to serve as a windfall for someone else. BIL may have zero social awareness beyond his own greed. 

You could host the cousins in the future so that your kids have a relationship with their cousins. Try to minimize time with the rest of the flawed family.

[protostache]

Protostache: I guess "free" goes a long, long way for some people. I've seen some people get unreasonably giddy about "free". Someone ought to remind BIL point blank that this sale is of FIL's things to fund the FIL's care and not to serve as a windfall for someone else. BIL may have zero social awareness beyond his own greed.

You could host the cousins in the future so that your kids have a relationship with their cousins. Try to minimize time with the rest of the flawed family.

BIL doesn't care. My wife has repeatedly pointed out that the money goes to FIL's care, but his retort (which makes a sick kind of sense) is that Medicaid is going to kick in at some point anyway so any money we raise this way doesn't matter and nobody else really wants much of anything so he should just get to take it all.

A sick little addendum: turns out BIL also asked the neighbor about taking back the very nice snowblower FIL gifted to him. Neighbor came around yesterday when BIL wasn't there and told us all about it, just to make sure it was still his! We wouldn't have ever known if the neighbor hadn't said anything.

[AlanStache]

Protostache: I guess "free" goes a long, long way for some people. I've seen some people get unreasonably giddy about "free". Someone ought to remind BIL point blank that this sale is of FIL's things to fund the FIL's care and not to serve as a windfall for someone else. BIL may have zero social awareness beyond his own greed.

You could host the cousins in the future so that your kids have a relationship with their cousins. Try to minimize time with the rest of the flawed family.

BIL doesn't care. My wife has repeatedly pointed out that the money goes to FIL's care, but his retort (which makes a sick kind of sense) is that Medicaid is going to kick in at some point anyway so any money we raise this way doesn't matter and nobody else really wants much of anything so he should just get to take it all.

A sick little addendum: turns out BIL also asked the neighbor about taking back the very nice snowblower FIL gifted to him. Neighbor came around yesterday when BIL wasn't there and told us all about it, just to make sure it was still his! We wouldn't have ever known if the neighbor hadn't said anything.

Sorry for your situation re BIL.  Is your family and the other siblings families estates properly setup to defend from BIL?

[SwordGuy]

BIL doesn't care. My wife has repeatedly pointed out that the money goes to FIL's care, but his retort (which makes a sick kind of sense) is that Medicaid is going to kick in at some point anyway so any money we raise this way doesn't matter and nobody else really wants much of anything so he should just get to take it all.

If you are sick and tired of dealing with BIL and you are the executor, call the police and have him arrested for burglary.

[protostache]

Protostache: I guess "free" goes a long, long way for some people. I've seen some people get unreasonably giddy about "free". Someone ought to remind BIL point blank that this sale is of FIL's things to fund the FIL's care and not to serve as a windfall for someone else. BIL may have zero social awareness beyond his own greed.

You could host the cousins in the future so that your kids have a relationship with their cousins. Try to minimize time with the rest of the flawed family.

BIL doesn't care. My wife has repeatedly pointed out that the money goes to FIL's care, but his retort (which makes a sick kind of sense) is that Medicaid is going to kick in at some point anyway so any money we raise this way doesn't matter and nobody else really wants much of anything so he should just get to take it all.

A sick little addendum: turns out BIL also asked the neighbor about taking back the very nice snowblower FIL gifted to him. Neighbor came around yesterday when BIL wasn't there and told us all about it, just to make sure it was still his! We wouldn't have ever known if the neighbor hadn't said anything.

Sorry for your situation re BIL.  Is your family and the other siblings families estates properly setup to defend from BIL?

My wife and I have a very good will that unfortunately we just recently updated, otherwise we would update it to remove BIL and family from one of the contingencies where they're named (if all of us die simultaneously the estate gets split amongst all of siblings to avoid the default estate rules). My other BIL I believe has things set up properly. He's a banker so I would be surprised if they hadn't. SIL does not, as far as we know, have anything set up.

If you are sick and tired of dealing with BIL and you are the executor, call the police and have him arrested for burglary.

That's the thing though. FIL isn't dead! He's very much alive, so the executor angle doesn't really come into play. Other BIL has power of attorney but he's not going to call the cops. The actual valuables are out of the house so he's just damaging his relationship with the rest of us now.

[shelivesthedream]

I wrote a will today. Well, a draft. I'm going to sit on it for a while and check I haven't missed anything out. But I just wanted to say how much this thread had helped! It's a simple will, but I've put in what happens if we have children, if any of them are under eighteen, if any of them have died and have a surviving spouse or children (including children adopted under the age of sixteen!)... And I've kept it simple: sell everything and split the money. If anyone wants to buy anything, it's at full market value and counts as part of their share. If more than one person is interested in something, they have six months to come to an agreement about who it is or it gets sold by a third party and the money divided.

[protostache]

I wrote a will today. Well, a draft. I'm going to sit on it for a while and check I haven't missed anything out. But I just wanted to say how much this thread had helped! It's a simple will, but I've put in what happens if we have children, if any of them are under eighteen, if any of them have died and have a surviving spouse or children (including children adopted under the age of sixteen!)... And I've kept it simple: sell everything and split the money. If anyone wants to buy anything, it's at full market value and counts as part of their share. If more than one person is interested in something, they have six months to come to an agreement about who it is or it gets sold by a third party and the money divided.

I would humbly suggest running your will past an estate attorney in your jurisdiction prior to signing it. If they're reviewing what you've already written it shouldn't cost a whole lot and you'll have more confidence that it won't be contested for some weird technical drafting error when the time comes.

[Reynold]

I would humbly suggest running your will past an estate attorney in your jurisdiction prior to signing it. If they're reviewing what you've already written it shouldn't cost a whole lot and you'll have more confidence that it won't be contested for some weird technical drafting error when the time comes.

Though just a warning, a lot of attorneys will charge more for reviewing your will than doing their own.  They have already put time into figuring out what boilerplate and contingencies they need in their own document for that state, and can delegate most of the "fill in the blank" stuff to their paralegals once they interview you.  If they have to read YOUR document, they actually have to see if it covers everything their's does from scratch.  And as you say, there can be state specific things.  Georgia, for example, requires that the witness to the will show up in court to testify that they witnessed it UNLESS there is a specific statement waiving that in the will.  Good luck tracking someone down 20 years after they witnessed your will. . .

[Spork]

I would humbly suggest running your will past an estate attorney in your jurisdiction prior to signing it. If they're reviewing what you've already written it shouldn't cost a whole lot and you'll have more confidence that it won't be contested for some weird technical drafting error when the time comes.

Though just a warning, a lot of attorneys will charge more for reviewing your will than doing their own.  They have already put time into figuring out what boilerplate and contingencies they need in their own document for that state, and can delegate most of the "fill in the blank" stuff to their paralegals once they interview you.  If they have to read YOUR document, they actually have to see if it covers everything their's does from scratch.  And as you say, there can be state specific things.  Georgia, for example, requires that the witness to the will show up in court to testify that they witnessed it UNLESS there is a specific statement waiving that in the will.  Good luck tracking someone down 20 years after they witnessed your will. . .

Not exactly this, but we had to do something very similar with my FIL.  In his case, we had to track down one of the 3 witnesses and get a signed/notarized statement from them.  This is better than appearing in court, but tracking down someone in another state from 40 years ago... still sucks.  And it was all due to wording in the will.