Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!

[Bateaux]

Hey anybody alive in here?

Raises hand - Yup I'm here. It's now exactly two and half years since I retired. What have I been up to recently?

- I just gave a guest lecture on software engineering for a class that a friend teaches at a university. This was a lot more fun than I expected. The kids were engaged and asked good question.
- I joined a model train club last year and am having a lot of fun working on club projects.
- Started doing some embedded programming on Arduino and ESP32. I am blown away at how good the development environment and tools are for these devices. I am cooking up some robotics projects that I will start on.
- I will be meeting a bunch of tech startups that I am mentoring (at an incubator) next week.
- Have a bunch of fun trips booked for this year. The only real constraint we have is my wife's work schedule.
- Finished a big portfolio rebalancing - I posted about this recently. Thanks to my inheritance and wife's RSUs vesting, we are rapidly reaching ridiculous levels of "beyond" :-)

Absolutely!!

I'm not sure if and when we'll reach the beyond.  We keep bouncing back and forth across the 3M line.  Once the Fed is done, I'm hoping to pass that point forever.
Keep living the good life you've earned.

[2sk22]

...
- Started doing some embedded programming on Arduino and ESP32. I am blown away at how good the development environment and tools are for these devices. I am cooking up some robotics projects that I will start on.
...

It is crazy awesome how simple it is to get right into things and start writing powerful code that does pretty neat stuff. I mean, running even a pedestrian 80MHz clock means there is essentially no need for even a lick of code optimization, just let it burn. Interrupts? Nah, I will just poll every pin, be right back in a microsecond, you won't miss anything.

I tip my hat to those folks who are developing these tools and ports and libraries and so on and putting them out there for me to stumble through.

And the cost of the hardware barely registers as a hurdle.

Exactly! There is so just much amazing inexpensive stuff out there. I have created a very well equipped electronics lab in my basement for less than a thousand dollars. The only limit to what you can do is your creativity.

[pecunia]

...
- Started doing some embedded programming on Arduino and ESP32. I am blown away at how good the development environment and tools are for these devices. I am cooking up some robotics projects that I will start on.
...

It is crazy awesome how simple it is to get right into things and start writing powerful code that does pretty neat stuff. I mean, running even a pedestrian 80MHz clock means there is essentially no need for even a lick of code optimization, just let it burn. Interrupts? Nah, I will just poll every pin, be right back in a microsecond, you won't miss anything.

I tip my hat to those folks who are developing these tools and ports and libraries and so on and putting them out there for me to stumble through.

And the cost of the hardware barely registers as a hurdle.

Exactly! There is so just much amazing inexpensive stuff out there. I have created a very well equipped electronics lab in my basement for less than a thousand dollars. The only limit to what you can do is your creativity.

You guys are inspiring.  However, in my case it would be to restore my old Sears Silvertone tube guitar amp.

[ATtiny85]

You guys are inspiring.  However, in my case it would be to restore my old Sears Silvertone tube guitar amp.

You say "my" which sort of implies that it was working for some amount of time? Full stop? Malfunction? Or simply that your skills and or hearing have degraded? ;-)

I assure you that I can be of almost zero help, but after a quick web search it's intriguing. Normally a little probing with a meter you can start to isolate the problem.

[2sk22]

When see postings like this I realize what a late starter I was compared to most people here!
- I was nearly 30 when I started real work after 6 years in grad school.
- We had our kids relatively late - I was forty when my younger kid was born
- I only learned about FIRE only in 2018

And yet I was able to retire in 2020.

What compensated for the late start:
- Was well paid (but nothing like what the FAANGs pay nowadays)
- Saved aggressively and started investing early
- By some miracle avoided getting laid off in 2009
- Hit the jackpot a few years later when my field (AI/ML) suddenly became hot
- Lived in the same house for over 25 years.
- Kids were sensible enough to go to relatively lower cost state universities

[jeroly]

Hey anybody alive in here?  Last week I did a 40 confined space rope rescue class.  Got my grade back, 94%.  Not bad right?  Well, there is a 6% chance that I might drop you. 👨‍🚒🪢

I just completed a 3 day two night backpacking trip.  I made 50 miles.  Holy shit I'm sore.  AT is in about 7 weeks.  Got to keep working hard.  Night y'all.

Still here, but busy enjoying the FIREd life!

Traveling through Chile at the moment, with a week to go after two weeks in the Atacama Desert, the Elqui Valley, and the Lake District (with a side trip to the Chiloé Islands).  We’ll wrap things up in Santiago and the wine regions near it before heading back home for April.

Have an awesome AT adventure!

[Dicey]

Hey anybody alive in here? 

Not to be Debbie Downer, but a couple of weeks ago, a routine mammogram turned not routine in a hurry. Then a killer hot flash knocked me to the floor in the middle of the night. Now I'm crabbing around like a very old lady, while contemplating cancer treatment options and hobbling to medical appointments with a cane. Fortunately,  the cancer was caught early. There's plenty to worry about right now, but I am so thankful that money is not. Being in this cohort means this is just something to get through and not something that will destroy us financially.

PSA: Get your routine tests done, fellow mustachians!

[couponvan]

Here, but going back to work 20 hours a week for my former employer to hold onto the stash while paying for 4 years of extra college costs. My plan is to work for three years so I can “retire” officially again at 55 and access the 401(k) I have spent years building. It gives us flexibility for $ planning. The partner I will be working for is also on the 3 year plan, so I don’t have to worry about him getting angry when I retire.

They offer unlimited PTO, but 6 weeks is what my level is expected to use “on average”. That’s plenty of time for visiting family and friends for now.

[arcturus]

Hey anybody alive in here? 

Not to be Debbie Downer, but a couple of weeks ago, a routine mammogram turned not routine in a hurry. Then a killer hot flash knocked me to the floor in the middle of the night. Now I'm crabbing around like a very old lady, while contemplating cancer treatment options and hobbling to medical appointments with a cane. Fortunately,  the cancer was caught early. There's plenty to worry about right now, but I am so thankful that money is not. Being in this cohort means this is just something to get through and not something that will destroy us financially.

PSA: Get your routine tests done, fellow mustachians!

I am so sorry to hear this, @Dicey.   Wishing you all the best and positivity as you embark on this journey!   

[Fomerly known as something]

Good Luck with your treatment dicey and I’m glad things were caught early.

[couponvan]

Dicey, I hope all the treatment decisions match up with what you think is best for you, and while cancer sucks, you are absolutely right that money relieves part of the stress.  Heading in for a checkup myself on 4/11 thanks to the nudge. 

Always a message or phone call away - it was good to hear your voice over the weekend!

[lhamo]

Don't post much but still truckin' along over here.

Briefly toyed with the idea of applying for a couple of jobs in the horticulture/community gardening space, but after a close call with jury duty on a trial that would have lasted over 2 weeks realized there is no way I am ready/willing to give up my total freedom from somebody else's schedule, even for good pay in a sector I spend lots of time volunteering in. 

We are waiting for DD to make her final college selection -- she got accepted to UW pre-engineering and just got a great financial aid offer yesterday so I am guessing that is where she will end up.  Makes life much simpler if she stays in town.

Oh, had another slice taken off my nose on Monday -- probably nothing but since I had a Basal Cell Carcinoma removed nearby a couple of years ago the dermatologist wanted to biopsy the unusual spot to be safe.  Thankfully other recent checks (mammogram, colon screening) have been clear.  Thinking of you as you deal with your diagnosis, @Dicey!

[MaybeBabyMustache]

Here, but going back to work 20 hours a week for my former employer to hold onto the stash while paying for 4 years of extra college costs. My plan is to work for three years so I can “retire” officially again at 55 and access the 401(k) I have spent years building. It gives us flexibility for $ planning. The partner I will be working for is also on the 3 year plan, so I don’t have to worry about him getting angry when I retire.

They offer unlimited PTO, but 6 weeks is what my level is expected to use “on average”. That’s plenty of time for visiting family and friends for now.

I'm in a similar boat. Planning to FIRE sometime this summer, but open to the possibility to work more, depending on where we end up with college costs.

@lhamo - congrats to your daughter! Yes, a lot is up in the air on our side, until we know where our kids are going to college, and how much it will cost.

[MaybeBabyMustache]

@Dicey - good thoughts to you. And, thanks for the reminder. I also need to schedule a mammogram.

[Allie]

Hey anybody alive in here? 

Not to be Debbie Downer, but a couple of weeks ago, a routine mammogram turned not routine in a hurry. Then a killer hot flash knocked me to the floor in the middle of the night. Now I'm crabbing around like a very old lady, while contemplating cancer treatment options and hobbling to medical appointments with a cane. Fortunately,  the cancer was caught early. There's plenty to worry about right now, but I am so thankful that money is not. Being in this cohort means this is just something to get through and not something that will destroy us financially.

PSA: Get your routine tests done, fellow mustachians!

I’m so sorry to hear about everything that’s been going on.  I’m sending all the internet good vibes I can! 

Reading this did spur me to schedule my first mammogram, which I had been putting off for a year and a half. 

[rockstache]

Hey anybody alive in here? 

Not to be Debbie Downer, but a couple of weeks ago, a routine mammogram turned not routine in a hurry. Then a killer hot flash knocked me to the floor in the middle of the night. Now I'm crabbing around like a very old lady, while contemplating cancer treatment options and hobbling to medical appointments with a cane. Fortunately,  the cancer was caught early. There's plenty to worry about right now, but I am so thankful that money is not. Being in this cohort means this is just something to get through and not something that will destroy us financially.

PSA: Get your routine tests done, fellow mustachians!

I’m so sorry to hear about everything that’s been going on.  I’m sending all the internet good vibes I can! 

Reading this did spur me to schedule my first mammogram, which I had been putting off for a year and a half.

I just had my first in the last few months and it was not nearly as uncomfortable as I had heard. I think this varies by individual but I was relieved to know that it doesn't necessarily have to be terrible. Best of luck!

[Bateaux]

Hey anybody alive in here? 

Not to be Debbie Downer, but a couple of weeks ago, a routine mammogram turned not routine in a hurry. Then a killer hot flash knocked me to the floor in the middle of the night. Now I'm crabbing around like a very old lady, while contemplating cancer treatment options and hobbling to medical appointments with a cane. Fortunately,  the cancer was caught early. There's plenty to worry about right now, but I am so thankful that money is not. Being in this cohort means this is just something to get through and not something that will destroy us financially.

PSA: Get your routine tests done, fellow mustachians!

I hate hearing this.  I know you'll kick ass though.  Hope that treatment isn't painful and the dreaded C goes away quickly.
Went through leukemia with our son at 14.  He's a college graduate and works for the local TV station now.  Keep in touch.
We love you Dicey.

[Dicey]

Awww, you all are warming my heart. In order not to derail this thread with details beyond the joy of being FIRE in this situation, I'll post updates in my journal. There's a link in my siggy line below. You can peek in on pg. 76, no need to wade through the previous 75 pages of drivel. Thanks again for the caring messages. They really are helpful.

[arcturus]

Will check it out Dicey and I maintain that you a writer / storyteller at heart, so I will look forward to it!

Anyone else thankful for a good start to 2023??  Its been a slog (for those of us who are not FIRE'd yet), so rewarding to pick up a little tailwind from the markets rather than more headwind.  Just did my quarterly check - $2.25 invested; $2.75 net worth.  Still not at my high water mark for invested assets, but getting closer, and the net worth is a new high water mark (by a nose!).  S&P still off its high by ~14% and NASDAQ off ~24% according to my math.

Still off track from where I wanted to be, but I'm not letting that impact my thinking around timing too much.  I'm still thinking 56.  All the talk about Social Security is a bit troubling....given that we've been taxed on a total of nearly $3M of earnings over the working years -- would love to see a PV calc on that (but I'm too lazy to do it)!

[EscapeVelocity2020]

...
All the talk about Social Security is a bit troubling....given that we've been taxed on a total of nearly $3M of earnings over the working years -- would love to see a PV calc on that (but I'm too lazy to do it)!

Yeah, Social Security is becoming a crisis - the trust fund is running out in 10 years and it's not even really being discussed!  Congress is still trying to get the conversation started on the looming debt ceiling...  I don't have much optimism we'll see a gradual, well executed plan to save it in its current form.  Most likely the maximum contribution limit will move up, further pissing off the wealthy.  I'm OK with the benefit cuts to be honest, as long as I don't have to pay more in to the system.  If the taxable cap moves up from the current $160k, it'll be just one more reason to be happy to ER.  The expiration of tax cuts in 2025 could also suck.   

[pecunia]

...
All the talk about Social Security is a bit troubling....given that we've been taxed on a total of nearly $3M of earnings over the working years -- would love to see a PV calc on that (but I'm too lazy to do it)!

Yeah, Social Security is becoming a crisis - the trust fund is running out in 10 years and it's not even really being discussed!  Congress is still trying to get the conversation started on the looming debt ceiling...  I don't have much optimism we'll see a gradual, well executed plan to save it in its current form.  Most likely the maximum contribution limit will move up, further pissing off the wealthy.  I'm OK with the benefit cuts to be honest, as long as I don't have to pay more in to the system.  If the taxable cap moves up from the current $160k, it'll be just one more reason to be happy to ER.  The expiration of tax cuts in 2025 could also suck.

In these inflationary times, it seems common sense to bump up the cap.  I do believe there are more poor folks on SS who vote than the wealthy.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

The cap moves up by inflation each year (from 147k to 160k, 2022 to 2023, for instance).  I am complaining that we'll get some crazy last minute save like removing the cap altogether...  Sucky for workers and businesses, and extra sucky for the self employed that pay the full 12.4%.  Probably getting too political, I just hope we start hearing reasonable solutions being debated.

[rmorris50]

The cap moves up by inflation each year (from 147k to 160k, 2022 to 2023, for instance).  I am complaining that we'll get some crazy last minute save like removing the cap altogether...  Sucky for workers and businesses, and extra sucky for the self employed that pay the full 12.4%.  Probably getting too political, I just hope we start hearing reasonable solutions being debated.

I’m still somewhat surprised immigration reform hasn’t been discussed more to increase the tax base.


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[rmorris50]

The cap moves up by inflation each year (from 147k to 160k, 2022 to 2023, for instance).  I am complaining that we'll get some crazy last minute save like removing the cap altogether...  Sucky for workers and businesses, and extra sucky for the self employed that pay the full 12.4%.  Probably getting too political, I just hope we start hearing reasonable solutions being debated.

I’m still somewhat surprised immigration reform hasn’t been discussed more to increase the tax base.


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[SwordGuy]

The cap moves up by inflation each year (from 147k to 160k, 2022 to 2023, for instance).  I am complaining that we'll get some crazy last minute save like removing the cap altogether...  Sucky for workers and businesses, and extra sucky for the self employed that pay the full 12.4%.  Probably getting too political, I just hope we start hearing reasonable solutions being debated.

I’m still somewhat surprised immigration reform hasn’t been discussed more to increase the tax base.

Because bigotry is more important than money to the base.   

And illegals make compliant and cheap workers, the very opposite of those with FU money, so the monied interests that benefit from that like it that way.

[rmorris50]

The cap moves up by inflation each year (from 147k to 160k, 2022 to 2023, for instance).  I am complaining that we'll get some crazy last minute save like removing the cap altogether...  Sucky for workers and businesses, and extra sucky for the self employed that pay the full 12.4%.  Probably getting too political, I just hope we start hearing reasonable solutions being debated.

I’m still somewhat surprised immigration reform hasn’t been discussed more to increase the tax base.

Because bigotry is more important than money to the base.   

And illegals make compliant and cheap workers, the very opposite of those with FU money, so the monied interests that benefit from that like it that way.

I do think tho at the end of the day people vote their pocket books, even tho we can point to situations where that isn’t the case. So if the base’s social security becomes truly threatened, it would be interesting to see how fast minds can change.


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[Exflyboy]

Along the lines of "is anyone still alive in here".

Sure am.. I have been setting up my lathe and mill in my shop.

Went back to work for 10 months in 2022 and can now live for 2 to 3 years on the proceeds (also maxxed out 401k and HSA savings of course).

Investments peaked around $3.2 to 3.4M (not counting the earned income) at roughly 70/30 stock/bond ETF's . I assume I fell below the $3M mark during the pullback but I never checked aand still don't know where we are today.

The cool thing is it really doesn't matter.. in 2021 we bought a spendy SUV and last year spent more money on my lathe/mill than I did on my first house. But still had a WR of less than 1.5% (guess)!

[SwordGuy]

We just celebrated our 40th wedding anniversary on 1-April.   Well, all week, actually.  :)

Forgot to do our monthly NW check at the end of February.   Had an expensive 2 months in Feb and March.
Had to replace an HVAC in the house.   Bought an expensive printing press and accoutrements.  A bunch of copper for etching, printing and enameling.  Gobs of books.

Net worth is about the same as it was at the end of January.  :) 

[pecunia]

Along the lines of "is anyone still alive in here".

Sure am.. I have been setting up my lathe and mill in my shop.

Went back to work for 10 months in 2022 and can now live for 2 to 3 years on the proceeds (also maxxed out 401k and HSA savings of course).

Investments peaked around $3.2 to 3.4M (not counting the earned income) at roughly 70/30 stock/bond ETF's . I assume I fell below the $3M mark during the pullback but I never checked aand still don't know where we are today.

The cool thing is it really doesn't matter.. in 2021 we bought a spendy SUV and last year spent more money on my lathe/mill than I did on my first house. But still had a WR of less than 1.5% (guess)!

In your case, it probably doesn't.  In a year you can get Social Security if money gets tight.

[Exflyboy]

In your case, it probably doesn't.  In a year you can get Social Security if money gets tight.

Yeah with a withdrawal rate of 1.5% I might need SS to keep the wolves from the door...:)

[Dicey]

In your case, it probably doesn't.  In a year you can get Social Security if money gets tight.

Yeah with a withdrawal rate of 1.5% I might need SS to keep the wolves from the door...:)

Yeah, I can almost hear them howling...[Insert eyeroll here.]

[pecunia]

In your case, it probably doesn't.  In a year you can get Social Security if money gets tight.

Yeah with a withdrawal rate of 1.5% I might need SS to keep the wolves from the door...:)

I actually looked.  They do have a small pack of wolves in Oregon.  However, they are South of Pullman so You should be safe.

[Bateaux]

2023 is working out to be an incredible year!  My wife is elated her LSU Lady Tigers won the national championship yesterday.  My wife made every home game in Baton Rouge and also traveled to many away games. She's hardly been home this last week.  She's relaxing now after driving home from Dallas. 
She was concerned about the cost of the traveling, airline tickets, game tickets.  I assured her we could afford it.  I told her she has worked and saved decades for this privilege.  Go and live that moment!  Have that excitement!
The stock market has made incredible gains lately.  Will it stay up?  Who knows.  We've almost reached the point personally of being recession proof.  I'm pension eligible this summer.  I may only have 20 more shifts at work.  I'm in better physical shape than since the pandemic.  I'm back up to 50 mile bicycle days and 20 mile hiking days.  Honestly I think 2024 will be even better.

[ATtiny85]

...
 My wife is elated her LSU Lady Tigers won the national championship yesterday.  My wife made every home game in Baton Rouge and also traveled to many away games.
...

The shooting was incredible. I am in Hawkeye land, so was pulling the other direction. But the LSU shooting....simply lights out. Very impressive. Fun that both teams were there for the first time.

[Bateaux]

...
 My wife is elated her LSU Lady Tigers won the national championship yesterday.  My wife made every home game in Baton Rouge and also traveled to many away games.
...

The shooting was incredible. I am in Hawkeye land, so was pulling the other direction. But the LSU shooting....simply lights out. Very impressive. Fun that both teams were there for the first time.

I think LSU can thank the Hawkeye's for beating South Carolina.  LSU played beyond their talent yesterday.  I'm just not sure they could have mentally overcome South Carolina.  It's been an exciting year for women's basketball overall.

[rmorris50]

As soon as my Purdue Boilermakers lost in the first round, I tuned out all tournament play, both men’s and women’s

Net worth is getting closer back to all time high of 3.15m. I look at the stupid thing every day, but more because I’m so ready to retire. But wanna get through phase II of house upgrades this year.

I turn 50 in June 2024, and I always said I’d retire by then. We shall see if it really happens.

Jealous to hear all these stories of y’all jumping around the country living your best life yet.


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[Dicey]

As soon as my Purdue Boilermakers lost in the first round, I tuned out all tournament play, both men’s and women’s

Net worth is getting closer back to all time high of 3.15m. I look at the stupid thing every day, but more because I’m so ready to retire. But wanna get through phase II of house upgrades this year.

I turn 50 in June 2024, and I always said I’d retire by then. We shall see if it really happens.

Jealous to hear all these stories of y’all jumping around the country living your best life yet.

You could be doing it too...

[arcturus]

Saw a Yahoo article today "Workers must plan on Social Security shortfall when retirement planning, advisers say" and found it interesting in light of the recent discussion here.  It shows, by generation, how much of people's planned retirement income is coming from various sources, including (of course) Social Security.  I'll net it for you:  Baby Boomers - 40% from SS, Gen X - 25%, Millennials - 17%; Gen Z - 16%.   I (being a Gen X'er) thought to myself, "I must be depending on far less for social security in my plan than the average,"  then I did the math on my spreadsheet and damn if it didn't come up at 24-25% over the course of my planning horizon.  I need to internalize that a bit, but my first reaction to that is to be concerned that I'm depending on too much from Social Security.    I suppose its offset by the rest of my relatively conservative assumptions elsewhere, but  hmmmm....

Ah, just realized I made the classic math blunder of dividing by the remainder of my income (other than SS) rather than dividing by the total (SS + all other sources).....so I get a slightly better result, right around 20%.

[rmorris50]

As soon as my Purdue Boilermakers lost in the first round, I tuned out all tournament play, both men’s and women’s

Net worth is getting closer back to all time high of 3.15m. I look at the stupid thing every day, but more because I’m so ready to retire. But wanna get through phase II of house upgrades this year.

I turn 50 in June 2024, and I always said I’d retire by then. We shall see if it really happens.

Jealous to hear all these stories of y’all jumping around the country living your best life yet.

You could be doing it too...

Yes the question is my ship is closing into the shore of retirement island (age 55) when all my deferred comp kicks in. So how close does the boat need to approach before I jump into my life boat and paddle ashore. Or do I let the big ship called my job carry me all the way


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[rmorris50]

Saw a Yahoo article today "Workers must plan on Social Security shortfall when retirement planning, advisers say" and found it interesting in light of the recent discussion here.  It shows, by generation, how much of people's planned retirement income is coming from various sources, including (of course) Social Security.  I'll net it for you:  Baby Boomers - 40% from SS, Gen X - 25%, Millennials - 17%; Gen Z - 16%.   I (being a Gen X'er) thought to myself, "I must be depending on far less for social security in my plan than the average,"  then I did the math on my spreadsheet and damn if it didn't come up at 24-25% over the course of my planning horizon.  I need to internalize that a bit, but my first reaction to that is to be concerned that I'm depending on too much from Social Security.    I suppose its offset by the rest of my relatively conservative assumptions elsewhere, but  hmmmm....

Ah, just realized I made the classic math blunder of dividing by the remainder of my income (other than SS) rather than dividing by the total (SS + all other sources).....so I get a slightly better result, right around 20%.

I probably am also relying on it “too much” as a Gen-xer, but as long as it’s there if worse case scenario I run out of assets (so means tested). I’d be okay with it being more “true insurance”. For some reason I’m really not sweating all the social security gloom and doom.

I still think immigration reform could come out of the wood work to increase the tax base.


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[arcturus]

Saw a Yahoo article today "Workers must plan on Social Security shortfall when retirement planning, advisers say" and found it interesting in light of the recent discussion here.  It shows, by generation, how much of people's planned retirement income is coming from various sources, including (of course) Social Security.  I'll net it for you:  Baby Boomers - 40% from SS, Gen X - 25%, Millennials - 17%; Gen Z - 16%.   I (being a Gen X'er) thought to myself, "I must be depending on far less for social security in my plan than the average,"  then I did the math on my spreadsheet and damn if it didn't come up at 24-25% over the course of my planning horizon.  I need to internalize that a bit, but my first reaction to that is to be concerned that I'm depending on too much from Social Security.    I suppose its offset by the rest of my relatively conservative assumptions elsewhere, but  hmmmm....

Ah, just realized I made the classic math blunder of dividing by the remainder of my income (other than SS) rather than dividing by the total (SS + all other sources).....so I get a slightly better result, right around 20%.

I probably am also relying on it “too much” as a Gen-xer, but as long as it’s there if worse case scenario I run out of assets (so means tested). I’d be okay with it being more “true insurance”. For some reason I’m really not sweating all the social security gloom and doom.

I still think immigration reform could come out of the wood work to increase the tax base.


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Yeah, you make a good point and, even if the means test fails, there is room to either cut back on discretionary spend and/or tap home equity as needed....so perhaps relax is good advice.

[Fomerly known as something]

Saw a Yahoo article today "Workers must plan on Social Security shortfall when retirement planning, advisers say" and found it interesting in light of the recent discussion here.  It shows, by generation, how much of people's planned retirement income is coming from various sources, including (of course) Social Security.  I'll net it for you:  Baby Boomers - 40% from SS, Gen X - 25%, Millennials - 17%; Gen Z - 16%.   I (being a Gen X'er) thought to myself, "I must be depending on far less for social security in my plan than the average,"  then I did the math on my spreadsheet and damn if it didn't come up at 24-25% over the course of my planning horizon.  I need to internalize that a bit, but my first reaction to that is to be concerned that I'm depending on too much from Social Security.    I suppose its offset by the rest of my relatively conservative assumptions elsewhere, but  hmmmm....

Ah, just realized I made the classic math blunder of dividing by the remainder of my income (other than SS) rather than dividing by the total (SS + all other sources).....so I get a slightly better result, right around 20%.

I probably am also relying on it “too much” as a Gen-xer, but as long as it’s there if worse case scenario I run out of assets (so means tested). I’d be okay with it being more “true insurance”. For some reason I’m really not sweating all the social security gloom and doom.

I still think immigration reform could come out of the wood work to increase the tax base.


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I’m a younger Gen X who apparently thinks more like a Millennial/Gen Z on Social security I get 16%.  I’m not totally surprised.

[pecunia]

Saw a Yahoo article today "Workers must plan on Social Security shortfall when retirement planning, advisers say" and found it interesting in light of the recent discussion here.  It shows, by generation, how much of people's planned retirement income is coming from various sources, including (of course) Social Security.  I'll net it for you:  Baby Boomers - 40% from SS, Gen X - 25%, Millennials - 17%; Gen Z - 16%.   I (being a Gen X'er) thought to myself, "I must be depending on far less for social security in my plan than the average,"  then I did the math on my spreadsheet and damn if it didn't come up at 24-25% over the course of my planning horizon.  I need to internalize that a bit, but my first reaction to that is to be concerned that I'm depending on too much from Social Security.    I suppose its offset by the rest of my relatively conservative assumptions elsewhere, but  hmmmm....

Ah, just realized I made the classic math blunder of dividing by the remainder of my income (other than SS) rather than dividing by the total (SS + all other sources).....so I get a slightly better result, right around 20%.

I probably am also relying on it “too much” as a Gen-xer, but as long as it’s there if worse case scenario I run out of assets (so means tested). I’d be okay with it being more “true insurance”. For some reason I’m really not sweating all the social security gloom and doom.

I still think immigration reform could come out of the wood work to increase the tax base.


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I’m a younger Gen X who apparently thinks more like a Millennial/Gen Z on Social security I get 16%.  I’m not totally surprised.

If the Social Security rules stay the same, the other thing you need to determine is when to draw it.  At 62 you get about 70 percent, at 67 you get 100 percent and if you live to 70 years of age you can get 129 percent.  I called the Social Security office and spoke with an official.  I liked him.  He told me all sorts of horror stories of people who deferred the money and died.  He also said, "The government is banking on you dying."

Of course, they always change the rules.  I wouldn't be surprised if they push the retirement age up to give better odds for Uncle Sam.

[Much Fishing to Do]

I FIREd for all of a month and then was sucked back in by a former co-worker with a new opportunity.  I knew the hourly pay would be great and terms flexible so have been determined to make this the 'early retirement job' I always knew would be best for me to stay connected and mentally challenged and give it a real shot.  I work 3 days a week, 5 hours a day, from home, precisely when the kids are at school those 3 days.  I'm going to try really hard to hold firm on that schedule (I know this will be difficult), and to that end set my available meeting hours to that, keep reminding everyone of that as things come up outside of those hours, stay off my work laptop when outside of those hours and, most importantly, keep the  company email off my phone.  My supervisor knows they can call/text me for emergencies and thats the only way I'll even see it.

The pay should work out to about what we spend which is nice of course, and some of the projects planned are things I'm pretty good at and some interesting things I'd like to try.  I'm just gonna see how it goes.   Kicking off FIRE I was confident in my nest egg so I know I can always pull the plug if it isn't all its cracked up to be.

[Much Fishing to Do]

...
All the talk about Social Security is a bit troubling....given that we've been taxed on a total of nearly $3M of earnings over the working years -- would love to see a PV calc on that (but I'm too lazy to do it)!

Yeah, Social Security is becoming a crisis - the trust fund is running out in 10 years and it's not even really being discussed!  Congress is still trying to get the conversation started on the looming debt ceiling...  I don't have much optimism we'll see a gradual, well executed plan to save it in its current form.  Most likely the maximum contribution limit will move up, further pissing off the wealthy.  I'm OK with the benefit cuts to be honest, as long as I don't have to pay more in to the system.  If the taxable cap moves up from the current $160k, it'll be just one more reason to be happy to ER.  The expiration of tax cuts in 2025 could also suck.

In these inflationary times, it seems common sense to bump up the cap.  I do believe there are more poor folks on SS who vote than the wealthy.

Unless I'm misunderstanding how it all works, I don't really know how increasing the cap has ever or will ever fix the problem, as though you're increasing receipts you're also increasing liabilities for that higher amount.  I guess there could be another bend point added to reduce those liabilities.  But in the end, because its been done before without a lot of hubbub, i'm guessing they'll do something like the Additional Medicare tax (for earners) and the NIIT (for investors) where they'll pick a higher income level to add another tax to that will go to the SS fund but not be factored into the resulting payment responsibilities. 

[2sk22]

I FIREd for all of a month and then was sucked back in by a former co-worker with a new opportunity.  I knew the hourly pay would be great and terms flexible so have been determined to make this the 'early retirement job' I always knew would be best for me to stay connected and mentally challenged and give it a real shot.  I work 3 days a week, 5 hours a day, from home, precisely when the kids are at school those 3 days.  I'm going to try really hard to hold firm on that schedule (I know this will be difficult), and to that end set my available meeting hours to that, keep reminding everyone of that as things come up outside of those hours, stay off my work laptop when outside of those hours and, most importantly, keep the  company email off my phone.  My supervisor knows they can call/text me for emergencies and thats the only way I'll even see it.

One reason I have been able to resist the offers that have come my way is that I know that if I start do any work at all, I am just not able to disengage. So it's all or nothing for me. Even with all of the excitement in AI nowadays, I have been able to resist getting back into the fray. I am happy to just read academic papers and let others do the hard work.

[ATtiny85]

...
  He also said, "The government is banking on you dying."
...

Back before the pandemic sent me home full-time I used to always think when I saw someone outside our building smoking: "excellent, that strengthens the pension fund"

[Much Fishing to Do]

I FIREd for all of a month and then was sucked back in by a former co-worker with a new opportunity.  I knew the hourly pay would be great and terms flexible so have been determined to make this the 'early retirement job' I always knew would be best for me to stay connected and mentally challenged and give it a real shot.  I work 3 days a week, 5 hours a day, from home, precisely when the kids are at school those 3 days.  I'm going to try really hard to hold firm on that schedule (I know this will be difficult), and to that end set my available meeting hours to that, keep reminding everyone of that as things come up outside of those hours, stay off my work laptop when outside of those hours and, most importantly, keep the  company email off my phone.  My supervisor knows they can call/text me for emergencies and thats the only way I'll even see it.

One reason I have been able to resist the offers that have come my way is that I know that if I start do any work at all, I am just not able to disengage. So it's all or nothing for me. Even with all of the excitement in AI nowadays, I have been able to resist getting back into the fray. I am happy to just read academic papers and let others do the hard work.

Understood.  I may have the same problem but knew this was the opportunity to find out given the offer to set it up however I wish when I first told them I probably was not interested.  Not having any team reporting to me for once I hope fixes most of that (as I'm not always juggling many projects for which i need to figure out how to staff and meet deadlines, etc.), and again just locking down access to just the 15 hours worked a week mainly by keeping it off my phone I'm hoping will do the trick.  We will find out!

[couponvan]

Tales from 3rd day back at work.  Yesterday the company announced 3 extra vacation days and bonuses for everyone who was hired before 3/31.  That's not me, but that's OK.  They are closed the whole week of 4th of July as well as the week between xmas and New Year.  Now Thanksgiving has the Wednesday off before, 6/19, and a day off one Friday in August for "health and wellness".  As long as I can keep my head down and not take on all the "extra" offered roles I should come out ahead on the whole "working to cash-flow college" deal.  This week is 8+ hour days for training, and let me tell you, I don't know how the regular people do full-time work.  You all are heros, as I am TIRED.

One more perk I forgot about - I also get $50 for my cell phone every month.  It's the little things that make me happy!

[BeanCounter]

Man, I’m disappointed in all of you on this thread that have either gone back to work or are still working. LOL.
Myself included.
After lots of hand wringing and back and forth I FIRED Aug of 2020.
March 2021 I took a little part time client who needed help because their CFO died of COVID. Then my former employer called asking for help, whatever hours I would give them. Then three more clients. Next thing I knew I’m working again. Mostly part time but some weeks it is full time to keep up with everyone. I don’t love it. I don’t hate it. Working as an independent contractor is better than full time as an employee for sure.
I do think the market drop influenced my choice to grab available work. I’m disappointed in myself for that. I had/have a plan for bear markets. We’ll be fine and I know it.
I’m not saving anything I make. I’m working hard to spend it all. We just did the basement remodel I was debating last year. The $25k budget turned into $45k in a hurry. But it’s so wonderful to be able to watch movies as a family and everyone has a place to sit and nobody is yelling “mom! He’s touching me!” “Mom! There is no place for my feet!” “Seat check!” “That’s my spot!!” Etc etc etc
This fall we start four years of $20k tuition and it’s probably not going to get cheaper for the next 10. So doing some work helps with that while the market is down. But I had a plan for that and it did NOT include working. Yet here I am!
I did just finish reading Die With Zero. That put a few things in perspective.

@Dicey - take care of yourself and kick cancers ass!!