Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!

[WorkingToUnwind]

Net worth is up $63k this month on stock/bond investments alone.    That's more than my wife and I made in the first five years we lived together.

I had to double-check the numbers, but we are somehow up $160k+ this month, which is getting closer to my annual salary!  I didn't realize that November had been such a good month... Crazy!

My investable assets rose in November by more than I earned in my final entire year of megacorp employment, and they rose by more than my out-of-college starting salary in eight months out of the 11 in 2024 so far! It's just surreal.

Yup, our investments are up about 150k this month. Months like this make me question why we're still working. We haven't quite reached our number yet, but at this rate we'll be there before we know it. I worry there will be a painful crash with a long and gradual rebound, timed just before I'm ready to pull the plug.

[SwordGuy]

Just realized we're up $233K in net worth for the year.   I'm still blown away by this.

[Much Fishing to Do]

Yep, holy shit, I just checked and I can’t believe my portfolio is up half a million dollars YTD again (not counting investing).

Congrats on the progress.  DW and I are in a similar boat - up 500K LNW in the last year.  Yee-haw.  I can't believe it's already been a year since I first posted in this thread.

Yeah, the moves are pretty crazy.  I basically gained Half million EACH of 2021, 2023, 2024 .... and 2022 was basically DOWN half million (that was quite shocking)...Looking back at the past 30 calendar years its crazy how few of them the S&P 500 had what I feel is a somewhat "normal" return  (like +3% to +15% range)...its a wild ride despite the somewhat normal projections that are thrown out every year at year end for the next year. I have de-risked quite a bit over the past year.  I wanted to do that after the 2022 year but made myself wait until my investments had totally recovered before doing so (I still remember so many people that in 2008, early 2009 were so frustrated at the market that though they would never 'sell' scared were convinced to "reconsider their risk tolerance" then, which of course led to them de-risking and in fact selling a lot at the bottom)

[tooqk4u22]

Yep, holy shit, I just checked and I can’t believe my portfolio is up half a million dollars YTD again (not counting investing).

Congrats on the progress.  DW and I are in a similar boat - up 500K LNW in the last year.  Yee-haw.  I can't believe it's already been a year since I first posted in this thread.

Yeah, the moves are pretty crazy.  I basically gained Half million EACH of 2021, 2023, 2024 .... and 2022 was basically DOWN half million (that was quite shocking)...Looking back at the past 30 calendar years its crazy how few of them the S&P 500 had what I feel is a somewhat "normal" return  (like +3% to +15% range)...its a wild ride despite the somewhat normal projections that are thrown out every year at year end for the next year. I have de-risked quite a bit over the past year.  I wanted to do that after the 2022 year but made myself wait until my investments had totally recovered before doing so (I still remember so many people that in 2008, early 2009 were so frustrated at the market that though they would never 'sell' scared were convinced to "reconsider their risk tolerance" then, which of course led to them de-risking and in fact selling a lot at the bottom)

That is "de-returning" and not "de-risking"  haha

De-risking now could losing some upside or leaving money on table but it certainly feels like a good time to do it and makes a heck of a lot more sense than doing it after a correctio or crash, which is like reverse re-balancing.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Yeah, I'm starting to take chunks of cash out of my Vanguard account just because this move has been so strong.  It's a silly problem to have, having a hard time sleeping at night because my nominal gains have been more than I could have ever expected this year, but selling and having cold hard cash in my bank account has made my situation feel more tangible.  I'm still not withdrawing anywhere I would need to for get to a 3% withdrawal rate, but I'm at least building up cash earmarked to be spent in the future.  Mind you, this is cash that isn't earning a money market yield, so I may just move it all back to Vanguard money market at some point, but then it feels like it's 'invested' again and goes back to la la land...  oh the trials and tribulations we have in this cohort.

[Fomerly known as something]

Yeah, I'm starting to take chunks of cash out of my Vanguard account just because this move has been so strong.  It's a silly problem to have, having a hard time sleeping at night because my nominal gains have been more than I could have ever expected this year, but selling and having cold hard cash in my bank account has made my situation feel more tangible.  I'm still not withdrawing anywhere I would need to for get to a 3% withdrawal rate, but I'm at least building up cash earmarked to be spent in the future.  Mind you, this is cash that isn't earning a money market yield, so I may just move it all back to Vanguard money market at some point, but then it feels like it's 'invested' again and goes back to la la land...  oh the trials and tribulations we have in this cohort.

I specifically keep my cash outside of Vanguard in HYSA and buy directly purchasing 4-8 week T-Bills on Treasury Direct so it is not in the same place as my investments.  Even though Treasury Direct is so clunky.  I also keep my “Sandbox” stocks in Schawb for the same reason.  Same with now having 3 HYSAs. 

1 is my cash bucket for a year of retirement.
1 is my “fun bucket”. Which is for stuff like a future car, a more extravagant trip or home renovations
1 is my actual emergency fund

Mentally I don’t want to co-mingle them even on paper.

[tooqk4u22]

Yeah, I'm starting to take chunks of cash out of my Vanguard account just because this move has been so strong.  It's a silly problem to have, having a hard time sleeping at night because my nominal gains have been more than I could have ever expected this year, but selling and having cold hard cash in my bank account has made my situation feel more tangible.  I'm still not withdrawing anywhere I would need to for get to a 3% withdrawal rate, but I'm at least building up cash earmarked to be spent in the future.  Mind you, this is cash that isn't earning a money market yield, so I may just move it all back to Vanguard money market at some point, but then it feels like it's 'invested' again and goes back to la la land...  oh the trials and tribulations we have in this cohort.

I specifically keep my cash outside of Vanguard in HYSA and buy directly purchasing 4-8 week T-Bills on Treasury Direct so it is not in the same place as my investments.  Even though Treasury Direct is so clunky.  I also keep my “Sandbox” stocks in Schawb for the same reason.  Same with now having 3 HYSAs. 

1 is my cash bucket for a year of retirement.
1 is my “fun bucket”. Which is for stuff like a future car, a more extravagant trip or home renovations
1 is my actual emergency fund

Mentally I don’t want to co-mingle them even on paper.

Ugh...Treasury Direct, you reminded me that we got locked out of one of the accounts and the only way to fix it is to call.  Haven't done it yet because I can't muster the patience to deal with a government call - I mean if the site is so bad then how good can the phone process be.

[Turtle]

Yeah, I'm starting to take chunks of cash out of my Vanguard account just because this move has been so strong.  It's a silly problem to have, having a hard time sleeping at night because my nominal gains have been more than I could have ever expected this year, but selling and having cold hard cash in my bank account has made my situation feel more tangible.  I'm still not withdrawing anywhere I would need to for get to a 3% withdrawal rate, but I'm at least building up cash earmarked to be spent in the future.  Mind you, this is cash that isn't earning a money market yield, so I may just move it all back to Vanguard money market at some point, but then it feels like it's 'invested' again and goes back to la la land...  oh the trials and tribulations we have in this cohort.

I started my 18 month countdown this week, and am celebrating by moving a bit more over into the Bond fund for the same reason.

[Fomerly known as something]

Yeah, I'm starting to take chunks of cash out of my Vanguard account just because this move has been so strong.  It's a silly problem to have, having a hard time sleeping at night because my nominal gains have been more than I could have ever expected this year, but selling and having cold hard cash in my bank account has made my situation feel more tangible.  I'm still not withdrawing anywhere I would need to for get to a 3% withdrawal rate, but I'm at least building up cash earmarked to be spent in the future.  Mind you, this is cash that isn't earning a money market yield, so I may just move it all back to Vanguard money market at some point, but then it feels like it's 'invested' again and goes back to la la land...  oh the trials and tribulations we have in this cohort.

I specifically keep my cash outside of Vanguard in HYSA and buy directly purchasing 4-8 week T-Bills on Treasury Direct so it is not in the same place as my investments.  Even though Treasury Direct is so clunky.  I also keep my “Sandbox” stocks in Schawb for the same reason.  Same with now having 3 HYSAs. 

1 is my cash bucket for a year of retirement.
1 is my “fun bucket”. Which is for stuff like a future car, a more extravagant trip or home renovations
1 is my actual emergency fund

Mentally I don’t want to co-mingle them even on paper.

Ugh...Treasury Direct, you reminded me that we got locked out of one of the accounts and the only way to fix it is to call.  Haven't done it yet because I can't muster the patience to deal with a government call - I mean if the site is so bad then how good can the phone process be.

As a government employee I have no choice with some systems.  But honestly I find them better than many other costumer service calls.

[Much Fishing to Do]

Yep, holy shit, I just checked and I can’t believe my portfolio is up half a million dollars YTD again (not counting investing).

Congrats on the progress.  DW and I are in a similar boat - up 500K LNW in the last year.  Yee-haw.  I can't believe it's already been a year since I first posted in this thread.

Yeah, the moves are pretty crazy.  I basically gained Half million EACH of 2021, 2023, 2024 .... and 2022 was basically DOWN half million (that was quite shocking)...Looking back at the past 30 calendar years its crazy how few of them the S&P 500 had what I feel is a somewhat "normal" return  (like +3% to +15% range)...its a wild ride despite the somewhat normal projections that are thrown out every year at year end for the next year. I have de-risked quite a bit over the past year.  I wanted to do that after the 2022 year but made myself wait until my investments had totally recovered before doing so (I still remember so many people that in 2008, early 2009 were so frustrated at the market that though they would never 'sell' scared were convinced to "reconsider their risk tolerance" then, which of course led to them de-risking and in fact selling a lot at the bottom)

That is "de-returning" and not "de-risking"  haha

De-risking now could losing some upside or leaving money on table but it certainly feels like a good time to do it and makes a heck of a lot more sense than doing it after a correctio or crash, which is like reverse re-balancing.

Heh, totally agree with the "de-returning"...My DAF is 100% S&p 500...because thats other people's money so easy to be logical ;-)


but I've won the game (I literally buy anything I "want" now and can stay at 4% SWR.  Luckily I don't care much for expensive things (I like buying a new car, but its not a luxury brand and I drive it for a decade, and I love to travel, but coach is fine), and hate taking care of 'stuff' (I buy great stuff, but rarely shop so it just doesn't add up), so I truly mean that. 

Again, the half-million drop was quite the shock in 2022, and modeling the portfolio allocation I used to have with a 2007-09 event I'd be upset, so it was time...

[couponvan]

We are up $135K last month, despite crazy losses on our FIRE house property, college tuition expenses, and lots of property taxes. Whining about $7,500 unexpected expenses when you gain $135K seems lame. But I stressed a lot about them and exhausted myself trying to do things properly and affordably. Part of why we have $3.7 million in this race, but living to see the end of the race is also a goal.

[tooqk4u22]

We are up $135K last month, despite crazy losses on our FIRE house property, college tuition expenses, and lots of property taxes. Whining about $7,500 unexpected expenses when you gain $135K seems lame. But I stressed a lot about them and exhausted myself trying to do things properly and affordably. Part of why we have $3.7 million in this race, but living to see the end of the race is also a goal.

I fell ya!  Over last several months we made college payments, $10k in unexpected expenses and decided to do trip that will likely be $10-15k and like you I stressed and still am because I am so fixated on what our spend "should" be.   

Never mind that the $10K came out of a slush-fund/reserve account that I add to every month and the trip is really just pulling forward next years travel, and it really is minimal compared to the gains this year.....and I have a conservative portfolio.  Talk about FOMO on a 100% equities portfolio!

But I also am of the mindset of easy come easy go and/or regression to the mean, so I like to keep spending in check.   Trees don't/can't grow to the moon. 

[Exflyboy]

@tooqk4u22 I know right.. i just added up our invested networth this morning.. its like looking at number that can't possibly be real.

Then i realised i could buy (and maintain) a jet quite easily.. A small jet (called very light jet) but a f*cking JET none the less!

Who the hell can do that and still be 'worried" about being kicked off of medicaid at the same time.. like huh?

[RWD]

@tooqk4u22 I know right.. i just added up our invested networth this morning.. its like looking at number that can't possibly be real.

Then i realised i could buy (and maintain) a jet quite easily.. A small jet (called very light jet) but a f*cking JET none the less!

Who the hell can do that and still be 'worried" about being kicked off of medicaid at the same time.. like huh?

The cheapest VLJs I'm seeing are around $1.7M +/- (Eclipse 500, Citation Mustang, Phenom 100). Annual fixed costs around $200k-300k plus $1,000-$1,500/hour of flight time. I feel like an 8 figure portfolio would be the minimum for one of these.

[Dicey]

@tooqk4u22 I know right.. i just added up our invested networth this morning.. its like looking at number that can't possibly be real.

Then i realised i could buy (and maintain) a jet quite easily.. A small jet (called very light jet) but a f*cking JET none the less!

Who the hell can do that and still be 'worried" about being kicked off of medicaid at the same time.. like huh?

The cheapest VLJs I'm seeing are around $1.7M +/- (Eclipse 500, Citation Mustang, Phenom 100). Annual fixed costs around $200k-300k plus $1,000-$1,500/hour of flight time. I feel like an 8 figure portfolio would be the minimum for one of these.

You know Frank wouldn't pay that much, nor would his operating costs be as high, or he wouldn't be Frank.

[RWD]

@tooqk4u22 I know right.. i just added up our invested networth this morning.. its like looking at number that can't possibly be real.

Then i realised i could buy (and maintain) a jet quite easily.. A small jet (called very light jet) but a f*cking JET none the less!

Who the hell can do that and still be 'worried" about being kicked off of medicaid at the same time.. like huh?

The cheapest VLJs I'm seeing are around $1.7M +/- (Eclipse 500, Citation Mustang, Phenom 100). Annual fixed costs around $200k-300k plus $1,000-$1,500/hour of flight time. I feel like an 8 figure portfolio would be the minimum for one of these.

You know Frank wouldn't pay that much, nor would his operating costs be as high, or he wouldn't be Frank.

Well sure, but it's still going to be in that ballpark. The VLJ is a relatively new concept (most production in the last 20 years) so there are not many choices. There are really only 6 aircraft to choose from and half of those will be less than 10 years old. We're talking about aircraft that were $3M-$7M new (adjusted for inflation), even the oldest cheapest Eclipse 500 I could find for sale was still $1.6M. I'm sure you could strike a deal a little cheaper than that but the real killer is operating costs. Even without flying parts time out and have to be replaced to maintain FAA airworthiness. And jet parts are expensive. When you do fly the fuel alone will cost $400-800/hour even for these small jets.

Any way you slice it a flying jet is going to be a healthy six-figure annual cost. As someone that has worked in aviation for nearing two decades I wanted a friendly caution to not underestimate aircraft running costs. My company owns an older jet that you can't get replacement engines for anymore. Once those time-out it is going to be an expensive (but pretty) paperweight. I know Frank isn't going to go out and impulse buy a HondaJet (or he wouldn't be Frank), but I am curious what cost assumptions were being made.

[markbike528CBX]

Oh hell, just get a 747 and slap some GE90's on it. :-)
There are lots of them in boneyards.
I posted once in a lottery thread about it.
gotta go for dinner. .... maybe will edit.

[RWD]

Oh hell, just get a 747 and slap some GE90's on it. :-)
There are lots of them in boneyards.
I posted once in a lottery thread about it.
gotta go for dinner. .... maybe will edit.

GE90s are what, $30M a pop?

[markbike528CBX]

Oh hell, just get a 747 and slap some GE90's on it. :-)
There are lots of them in boneyards.
I posted once in a lottery thread about it.
gotta go for dinner. .... maybe will edit.

GE90s are what, $30M a pop?

Chump change for those in the Beyond:-)

Look me right in the Internet and tell me that exflyboy wouldn’t want a high TWR, aerobatic 747.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Oh hell, just get a 747 and slap some GE90's on it. :-)
There are lots of them in boneyards.
I posted once in a lottery thread about it.
gotta go for dinner. .... maybe will edit.

GE90s are what, $30M a pop?

Chump change for those in the Beyond

I have a couple of em strapped to my Honda Fit just for fun!

[RWD]

Oh hell, just get a 747 and slap some GE90's on it. :-)
There are lots of them in boneyards.
I posted once in a lottery thread about it.
gotta go for dinner. .... maybe will edit.

GE90s are what, $30M a pop?

Chump change for those in the Beyond

I have a couple of em strapped to my Honda Fit just for fun!

That definitely explains your username!

[Bateaux]

@tooqk4u22 I know right.. i just added up our invested networth this morning.. its like looking at number that can't possibly be real.

Then i realised i could buy (and maintain) a jet quite easily.. A small jet (called very light jet) but a f*cking JET none the less!

Who the hell can do that and still be 'worried" about being kicked off of medicaid at the same time.. like huh?

Here I am in beyond territory and there is no way I'd fly anything but coach.

[Exflyboy]

@Bateaux Well thank God I'm not the only one! You and are both in "beyond" and I can't bring myself to spring for business class either..:)

[Much Fishing to Do]

@Bateaux Well thank God I'm not the only one! You and are both in "beyond" and I can't bring myself to spring for business class either..:)

No kidding....I just flew 4 of us to Europe and back for a very quick trip for $2800....I'm very happy we can afford to go anytime we really want to ..... curious I ran the same search for FIrst Class and the best it returned was $12k.... is that a normal difference or am I just doing it wrong?  I mean, I would pay more for some more legroom, but 5 times as much?

[dividendman]

@Bateaux Well thank God I'm not the only one! You and are both in "beyond" and I can't bring myself to spring for business class either..:)

No kidding....I just flew 4 of us to Europe and back for a very quick trip for $2800....I'm very happy we can afford to go anytime we really want to ..... curious I ran the same search for FIrst Class and the best it returned was $12k.... is that a normal difference or am I just doing it wrong?  I mean, I would pay more for some more legroom, but 5 times as much?

Seems normal for first class international... Actually on the cheaper side.

[secondcor521]

@Bateaux Well thank God I'm not the only one! You and are both in "beyond" and I can't bring myself to spring for business class either..:)

No kidding....I just flew 4 of us to Europe and back for a very quick trip for $2800....I'm very happy we can afford to go anytime we really want to ..... curious I ran the same search for FIrst Class and the best it returned was $12k.... is that a normal difference or am I just doing it wrong?  I mean, I would pay more for some more legroom, but 5 times as much?

Sounds like a normal difference to me.

There can be an intermediate "business class" which can be close to First Class but at a price that is closer to 2x than 5x.

[Fomerly known as something]

I thank in part it has to do with what happens to your “extra” when you die.  I’m a SINK, if I don’t spend it it goes to charity.  So spending more on flights for me is part that works, I have no desire to own 2 houses.  And since I’m a SINK, it’s only one plane ticket.  I’d likely have a different opinion if it were 4 or 5 tickets.

[Much Fishing to Do]

I thank in part it has to do with what happens to your “extra” when you die.  I’m a SINK, if I don’t spend it it goes to charity.  So spending more on flights for me is part that works, I have no desire to own 2 houses.  And since I’m a SINK, it’s only one plane ticket.  I’d likely have a different opinion if it were 4 or 5 tickets.

Yeah, I actually have one more kid who couldn't go, and who is probably marrying soon....so maybe soon I'll be paying for 6 plane tickets or more...and we do like to travel a lot, so its probably wise I don't look beyond coach....

But in the end it's just something about being that much more that even if I was worth $20M I would have some kind of hang up about.  I mean, if I was gonna pick up a few pizzas for $40...but didn't really feel like running out to get it, and I could instead get it delivered for $200, I just can't see doing that...and that's just 120 bucks!

[farmecologist]

@Bateaux Well thank God I'm not the only one! You and are both in "beyond" and I can't bring myself to spring for business class either..:)

No kidding....I just flew 4 of us to Europe and back for a very quick trip for $2800....I'm very happy we can afford to go anytime we really want to ..... curious I ran the same search for FIrst Class and the best it returned was $12k.... is that a normal difference or am I just doing it wrong?  I mean, I would pay more for some more legroom, but 5 times as much?

Sounds like a normal difference to me.

There can be an intermediate "business class" which can be close to First Class but at a price that is closer to 2x than 5x.

We can't bring ourselves to spring for business class either...or even intermediate for that matter.

However, when we fly international, we really only like flying in a row of two.  Fortunately, we have been able to do that in coach on all international flights so far.  However, for our next trip, we had to book seats in the second to last row of the plane as this plane has only two rows of coach seats in the back that have only two seats!  No big deal...the seats are closer to the snack bin in the back.  ;-)

[Exflyboy]

I thank in part it has to do with what happens to your “extra” when you die.  I’m a SINK, if I don’t spend it it goes to charity.  So spending more on flights for me is part that works, I have no desire to own 2 houses.  And since I’m a SINK, it’s only one plane ticket.  I’d likely have a different opinion if it were 4 or 5 tickets.

Can you please tell me for a couple at what level of savings do you have to be at to be sure you won't leave any to charity?

And should i up my 1% WR?..:)

[cloudsail]

Sometimes it's just worth searching because there are occasionally very good business class deals, or mileage awards. Alternatively, you can buy an extra seat for some more room. I just find flying pretty miserable now so anything to make it slightly less miserable is worth it.

[Louise]

@Bateaux Well thank God I'm not the only one! You and are both in "beyond" and I can't bring myself to spring for business class either..:)

No kidding....I just flew 4 of us to Europe and back for a very quick trip for $2800....I'm very happy we can afford to go anytime we really want to ..... curious I ran the same search for FIrst Class and the best it returned was $12k.... is that a normal difference or am I just doing it wrong?  I mean, I would pay more for some more legroom, but 5 times as much?

Sounds like a normal difference to me.

There can be an intermediate "business class" which can be close to First Class but at a price that is closer to 2x than 5x.

We can't bring ourselves to spring for business class either...or even intermediate for that matter.

However, when we fly international, we really only like flying in a row of two.  Fortunately, we have been able to do that in coach on all international flights so far.  However, for our next trip, we had to book seats in the second to last row of the plane as this plane has only two rows of coach seats in the back that have only two seats!  No big deal...the seats are closer to the snack bin in the back.  ;-)

The two passenger rows are nice because I sit next to my very petite DD and I have a lot of room. My poor DH gets to sit in the 5 seater row next to strangers. :)

[Exflyboy]

Sometimes it's just worth searching because there are occasionally very good business class deals, or mileage awards. Alternatively, you can buy an extra seat for some more room. I just find flying pretty miserable now so anything to make it slightly less miserable is worth it.

Indeed DW got to fly all the way round the World on her trip to India all in business class and all on my airmile points.. She got a screaming deal.

Have I ever flown bus class on my points?.. Of course not.. I just got to earn them by flying all over the World mostly in economy..:)

[ROF Expat]

@Bateaux Well thank God I'm not the only one! You and are both in "beyond" and I can't bring myself to spring for business class either..:)

I fly a lot of very long haul flights in coach.  The price difference on one of my flights to the US is around $4,000 over about 40 hours of flight time.  When I think of it as $100 per hour to sit in a bigger seat, it usually loses its attraction.  Similarly, if I were flying in business and a person from coach offered me $100 per hour to switch seats, I would almost certainly say yes.  Flying premium is nice, but there are other things I'd rather do with my money. 

[ixtap]

I like premium: bigger seats without any difference in service. I don't need a higher attendant to passenger ratio, just room to relax and wiggle!

We are waiting until January to sell equities, as we will need to generate income for ACA next year and expect to be in the 0% bracket. Sure hope the markets don't make me regret that, but when I get FOMO, I just chant "don't time the market, don't time the market."

[Fomerly known as something]

I thank in part it has to do with what happens to your “extra” when you die.  I’m a SINK, if I don’t spend it it goes to charity.  So spending more on flights for me is part that works, I have no desire to own 2 houses.  And since I’m a SINK, it’s only one plane ticket.  I’d likely have a different opinion if it were 4 or 5 tickets.

Can you please tell me for a couple at what level of savings do you have to be at to be sure you won't leave any to charity?

And should i up my 1% WR?..:)

Oh I’m likely to still leave a massive amount depending on the market.  But I’m trying to make it less.  Right now I’m still pretty conservative because I hope to have a 40-50 year retirement.  I’m somewhere in the 3-4% range.  Long term care is my biggest IBL fear.  I’m actually likely to up spending and charitable giving while I’m alive as I go along.  But my IBL keeps me back a lot on the giving.

I do 100% fell my choice to move to the most expensive region in the USA in 2021 has helped my frugal butt spend more.  My spending naturally just went up moving here on normal things so it helped to reset.  I also flew a ton on Delta for a bit for work and had status when it meant something so I flew up front for “free”. 

Again specifically with airfare, I’m single, and I travel mostly by myself so I don’t have anyone to lean into in coach.  I might not have made the leap to premium if I had someone next to me I could lean on or share the 2 seat on one side option.  I’m not going to “hope” the seat next to me is empty.  I get pain in my shoulder/back in economy on long flights because I’m trying to make myself small/lean away in coach.  I’m over that. 

[Dancin'Dog]

I've found it easier to snag good seats when choosing seats towards the rear of the plane. Most passengers select seats toward the front, so there are more empty seats in the rear.  I chose isle seats on the center row for DW & myself, figuring a solo passenger would be unlikely to choose the center seat.  That strategy has worked well.  The downside is we're last to deboard, so that might be a concern if we have a short layover.

[oldtoyota]

You all talking about business class, which I've considered recently, reminded me that we wanted to eat in a "fancy" restaurant before attending a concert. We had tickets in the 9th row, and the concert was amazing.

We feel slightly more ready to spend a little more than we did in the "accumulation" years yet not quite 100% comfortable with the idea. 

Logistics worked out that eating at a less fancy place was more convenient so we did that. Still enjoyed it along with our good seat location.

Then, there's a part of my brain that wonders if I should work at a grocery store to increase my social security, which continues to shrink year by year and will do so until I reach a certain age. This thinking about the job is hardwired by Depression-era parents, and I organized my retirement planning to assume I'd have zero for social security anyway.

I was always taught work-work-work and did at every school break and even during school. The fact I could do what I want? I struggle to wrap my mind around the idea!

[rmorris50]

What's that expression, if you don't fly first class your heirs will. I've become much more willing to splurge (strategically) on first class tickets. I find if I book a regular seat, and monitor the app for the price for upgrading to first class, that works because the price can fluctuate a lot.

Beyond territory is within arms reach for me, like 95% of the "status bar" is full :-)

[tooqk4u22]

Never flown first or business, but we have plans/ideas to do so when our kids are out of the house to take an international trip and we may splurge on business class if flights are very long and the gap isn't is really really really ridiculous or we use miles. 

Still seems excessive regardless if you can afford it one off or regularly. 

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Having traveled so much in the past as well as airline quality declining in general, I don't want to sit on a plane for more than 8 hours unless I have to.  Business Class is about the only way I'll do it, otherwise the vacation really doesn't sound fun to me.  Maybe I'll change my mind if my net worth drops one of these days or when I'm retired and have more time to 'waste' on either end of the travel...  but I like to get even an hour or two of sleep on an overnight flight and that's only going to happen in business class.

I get it that this is a 'frugal minded' forum, but we're in the cohort where a bit of discretionary spending on preferences won't cause our hair to catch on fire.  With that said, I do put in the work to get the best price/value for the upgrade, and I have a lot of airline points which helps tremendously.

[Dancin'Dog]

La Compagnie offers laydown business class-only flights from Newark to Paris for about $1300-$1400 (each way).  We have friends who thought it was wonderful... until they had to eat their fare and pay for same-day flights because of a missed connection. 


It's a nice option.  But you'd better schedule a long layover to be safe if your route requires connecting flights.


Note: La Compagnie also flies to Nice & Milan

[SwordGuy]

Never flown first or business, but we have plans/ideas to do so when our kids are out of the house to take an international trip and we may splurge on business class if flights are very long and the gap isn't is really really really ridiculous or we use miles. 

Still seems excessive regardless if you can afford it one off or regularly.

As your body ages, you may find your opinion changes when it comes to very long flights.   My wife's did, and I don't blame her.  I'm getting there.

[tooqk4u22]

Never flown first or business, but we have plans/ideas to do so when our kids are out of the house to take an international trip and we may splurge on business class if flights are very long and the gap isn't is really really really ridiculous or we use miles. 

Still seems excessive regardless if you can afford it one off or regularly.

As your body ages, you may find your opinion changes when it comes to very long flights.   My wife's did, and I don't blame her.  I'm getting there.

You don't have to sell me on the appeal, its just the cost differential.   If a business class seat for a long flight was 20% to maybe even 50% more than its probably an easier call for me but when it is 4x+ not so sure.

[MaybeBabyMustache]

My back pain (bulging disc against a nerve) + tendonitis in my hip makes a long haul economy flight miserable. I can do it, but it really reduces my enthusiasm for the trip. We're at a point where we'd rather do fewer international/long flights & trips, but be able to afford at least premium plus. I had a huge amount of United credits to burn, so we did business class to Costa Rica & will be doing business class to Spain. After that, I think we will look for flights with lots of available seat space in business, and hope to upgrade via miles or cash as it gets closer. But, we will book premium plus at a minimum, as the upgrade options don't always come through.

We tend to get a lot of our hotel rooms booked via points, so maybe we will reach a point where I'm comfortable using points to cover the hotel & then paying directly for business. But, @tooqk4u22 is correct that the cost differential is hard to swallow on a lot of flights. Seeing those numbers when I go to book pains me, and we are in the "beyond" territory. I'm sitting on 500k United miles, and our 20th anniversary is in the fall. We will likely splurge by using miles to do business class to Italy.

[ATtiny85]

My back pain (bulging disc against a nerve) + tendonitis

Seeing those numbers when I go to book pains me, and we are in the "beyond" territory.

Sit in the worst chair in the worst position that causes your back pain to flare up as a distraction (or maybe motivation?), then click 'purchase'.

[FireLane]

You all talking about business class, which I've considered recently, reminded me that we wanted to eat in a "fancy" restaurant before attending a concert. We had tickets in the 9th row, and the concert was amazing.

We feel slightly more ready to spend a little more than we did in the "accumulation" years yet not quite 100% comfortable with the idea. 

I'm trying to get into this mindset as well, especially with the booming market this year. I listened to a podcast interview with Bill Perkins (Die With Zero), and he said something that resonated with me: "When's the party?"

In other words, when do we give ourselves permission to stop worrying about money? When are we rich enough to stop fretting about small expenses and start enjoying all this money we've saved up?

To put this into practice, I'm trying to be deliberate about spending more on experiences I enjoy. I took my son to the Nightmare Before Christmas light show at the New York Botanical Gardens, which cost $140 for tickets, and the Luna Luna art exhibit in Manhattan, which was $175. Both of those were pricy, but they were well worth it. I'm glad I went.

Also, my wife is a WNBA fan and wants to go to opening day next year, but the tickets were $400. She felt guilty about spending that much. In the past, I would've flinched a little too. But we're multimillionaires, and it's silly to miss out because of the cost when we can easily afford it.

[tooqk4u22]

You all talking about business class, which I've considered recently, reminded me that we wanted to eat in a "fancy" restaurant before attending a concert. We had tickets in the 9th row, and the concert was amazing.

We feel slightly more ready to spend a little more than we did in the "accumulation" years yet not quite 100% comfortable with the idea. 

I'm trying to get into this mindset as well, especially with the booming market this year. I listened to a podcast interview with Bill Perkins (Die With Zero), and he said something that resonated with me: "When's the party?"

In other words, when do we give ourselves permission to stop worrying about money? When are we rich enough to stop fretting about small expenses and start enjoying all this money we've saved up?

To put this into practice, I'm trying to be deliberate about spending more on experiences I enjoy. I took my son to the Nightmare Before Christmas light show at the New York Botanical Gardens, which cost $140 for tickets, and the Luna Luna art exhibit in Manhattan, which was $175. Both of those were pricy, but they were well worth it. I'm glad I went.

Also, my wife is a WNBA fan and wants to go to opening day next year, but the tickets were $400. She felt guilty about spending that much. In the past, I would've flinched a little too. But we're multimillionaires, and it's silly to miss out because of the cost when we can easily afford it.

I am not sure what the level of rich is that there is no sense worrying about it.  No matter how rich you are there are always more ways to spend money, ya know hedonistic treadmill and all that. 

It reminds of time maybe 15 years ago and my DW got a lump sum of like $15k, it might have been severance, and we put it in her account. We bought some furniture with part, which left like $10k. A year or so goes by and we had some home repairs that came up and I was like "We'll take it from the severance funds."  Well not the case, it turns out she had spent most of it, but the weird thing was she didn't even realize it and was like "But I didn't buy anything?"  It was mostly on little trivial purchases mostly on the kids or getting together with other moms with the kids or whatnot.   So it's now a running joke whenever my kids say something like "It's only a few bucks DAD!" and my reply well "That easily turns into a lot of bucks!"

I guess at the end of the day it probably doesn't matter if the spending is more one off in nature (i.e your not suddenly buying WNBA season tickets and an annual theater pass) or it falls within your self identified WR. 

Most here could probably drop $50k extra in a single year with no consequence but it probably wouldn't work out to well if it turned into every year.

[MaybeBabyMustache]

My back pain (bulging disc against a nerve) + tendonitis

Seeing those numbers when I go to book pains me, and we are in the "beyond" territory.

Sit in the worst chair in the worst position that causes your back pain to flare up as a distraction (or maybe motivation?), then click 'purchase'.

@ATtiny85 - ha, I will have to try this. It will definitely create more temptation!

[2sk22]

I just updated my tracking spreadsheet and discovered that we are now above $9M in investments 😳. There's actually more: both my wife and I are entitled to pensions but I'm not including them until they are actually in hand.

Our annual core expenses (housing, food, cars, hobbies and online stuff) remains below $90k. In terms of discretionary spending, we spent $60k on travel in 2024 - which is a record for us. But I think we have hit a limit - I doubt we will be spending more on travel than this.