Author Topic: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!  (Read 823209 times)

pecunia

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4750 on: April 30, 2021, 08:28:44 AM »
In general I seem to acclimate to altitude pretty quickly.  I wonder if itís the years of competitive swimming as a kid?  I hope the trend continues.

In other news, I had a semi interview for our San Francisco spot.  I had about 20 seconds to prepare.  I think I did good enough.  Did find out the office is looking to move to Walnut Creek, so now Iím back looking harder at Oakland again.

Walnut Creek has my kind of mountain, Mount Diablo.  You can drive to the top and the air is thick.

jeromedawg

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4751 on: April 30, 2021, 03:37:55 PM »
Half Dome is a trip. I hiked it three times in college before the permits were required. Take leather gloves for the cables. Maybe even a harness or belt with two clip in points. You don’t really need to clip in (I never did, but I was young and invincible), but it is possible to fall and die.  A friend was up there when someone tumbled down between the cables, hit his head, and didn’t wake up.

I don’t mean to scare you. It’s a fun adventure. Enjoy!

Agreed. I did it once and that was enough LOL. Ditto on the gloves too. But yea, there are plenty of other hikes you can do to get a view without dying... Mt Whitney is one of them; well, except when the clouds roll in and the lightning comes (tip: don't try to hide in the shelter w/ the metal roof @ Summit) hahahaha.

The whole time my wife and I were afraid of losing our grip and dying. It was nice once we got up there though. It was even more of a trip going back down and having to climb over the edge.

It's especially scary once the wind starts blowing. One of our friends lost his hat.

I can't believe the people who think it's a great idea to take a selfie....smh
« Last Edit: April 30, 2021, 03:42:16 PM by jeromedawg »

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4752 on: April 30, 2021, 05:27:01 PM »
In 2017 I climbed to Mordor, (Tongariro Crossing in New Zealand). I forgot mittens.  It was day 2 of a multi day hike.  I used a pair of wool socks from my backpack.

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4753 on: April 30, 2021, 09:39:25 PM »
The cables wouldnít be so bad if you didnít have to step up a 2 foot layer/flake of granite right at the steepest part where the slope is about 50 degrees. Also, fewer people on the cables makes it a lot better. The permit limits should help, but itís best if you get up there early.

One of the times up there I sat on the edge and dangled my feet over. It made a great photo. Terrible idea, though. Would be a shame to fall off. I donít recommend doing that - sitting on the edge or falling off.

amberfocus

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4754 on: April 30, 2021, 11:37:10 PM »
I think aggressively saving during one's youth is where it's at! Plus, you're only 36 - that's still youth in my opinion! Or maybe I'm just saying that to make myself feel better since I'm 37. ;) Seriously though, saving 2MM in liquid net worth on your own by the age of 36? That is so bad ass! HUGE congratulations! We reached 2MM in liquid net worth earlier this year, but my husband and I have joint finances, so I didn't do it alone. At the age of 37, I feel so much levity and freedom where it comes to finances. Because of what I did in my 20s (like you, shoveling every spare penny into Vanguard funds), we could probably quit our jobs today and be fine. But we both generally like our jobs, and I no longer intend to RE (he never intended to RE), so our focus is really on FI. It feels like the hard work is largely done from a financial perspective, and everything is kind of automated at this point.

One of the fundamental insights that I gained (from reading The Millionaire Next Door) was that financial independence was not the same as financial solvency. Once I realized that having money wasn't just about being able to pay the bills, it was about freedom, that changed my entire worldview. Freedom felt so much more valuable than some consumer doodad that you buy. And I understood that in order to leverage compound interest, you have to front-load as much seed capital as possible. Feeding the Vanguard account became the only course of action that made sense. I sacrificed a lot, but I would absolutely do it all over again.

How do you feel? Do you feel a sense of levity and security?

Truth be told, my feelings are a bit complicated right now, haha. I'm about to FIRE in three weeks, and I'm bipolar-ing between sheer terror and utter tranquility. Mentally swapping the source of my sense of financial security from my job to my stash feels like a crazy leap of faith. (It doesn't help that I'm terrified of heights IRL.) But our numbers are rock solid and I'm about to set my workplace on fire (and not the fun kind of FIRE... or maybe exactly that kind of FIRE... heh), so it's definitely time to go. Making the decision to jump despite being scared shitless of heights means that deep down, I truly trust the safety net. Being able to buy back your time and your life is priceless.

pecunia

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4755 on: May 01, 2021, 05:14:05 AM »


- SNIP -


Truth be told, my feelings are a bit complicated right now, haha. I'm about to FIRE in three weeks, and I'm bipolar-ing between sheer terror and utter tranquility. Mentally swapping the source of my sense of financial security from my job to my stash feels like a crazy leap of faith. (It doesn't help that I'm terrified of heights IRL.) But our numbers are rock solid and I'm about to set my workplace on fire (and not the fun kind of FIRE... or maybe exactly that kind of FIRE... heh), so it's definitely time to go. Making the decision to jump despite being scared shitless of heights means that deep down, I truly trust the safety net. Being able to buy back your time and your life is priceless.

Being only 36 - You can go back to work providing you haven't severely burnt your bridges.  Human resource people will not give you the age discrimination that you would become aware of if you were older.  And,.....even then being older there may still be opportunities just not as many.  People in far less secure situations than yours quit every day.

FireLane

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4756 on: May 01, 2021, 09:03:08 AM »
My NW passed $2.5 million for the first time this month. It's amazing how fast it's grown over the past year, but I guess that's the snowball of compounding in action.

Also, I made some fortuitously timed investments near the bottom of the pandemic crash. I can't claim to be a brilliant trader, it was the same mindless buy-and-hold strategy I've been following all along. But that just shows why you shouldn't try to outsmart the market. How many people foresaw it bouncing back as strongly as it did?

I'm out of excuses for not quitting my job, so I'm planning to FIRE this summer. I should be able to live on a 3% or less WR without too much trouble. Even in these times of dizzy market valuations and health-care uncertainty, I think that'll be just about untouchable.

chasesfish

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4757 on: May 01, 2021, 03:45:27 PM »


- SNIP -


Truth be told, my feelings are a bit complicated right now, haha. I'm about to FIRE in three weeks, and I'm bipolar-ing between sheer terror and utter tranquility. Mentally swapping the source of my sense of financial security from my job to my stash feels like a crazy leap of faith. (It doesn't help that I'm terrified of heights IRL.) But our numbers are rock solid and I'm about to set my workplace on fire (and not the fun kind of FIRE... or maybe exactly that kind of FIRE... heh), so it's definitely time to go. Making the decision to jump despite being scared shitless of heights means that deep down, I truly trust the safety net. Being able to buy back your time and your life is priceless.

Being only 36 - You can go back to work providing you haven't severely burnt your bridges.  Human resource people will not give you the age discrimination that you would become aware of if you were older.  And,.....even then being older there may still be opportunities just not as many.  People in far less secure situations than yours quit every day.

I second this.  I FIREd on the month of my 27th birthday.  It's now been 24.5 months (or 106 weeks, but who's counting) and still get job offers thrown my way

Dicey

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4758 on: May 01, 2021, 08:41:37 PM »
Half Dome is a trip. I hiked it three times in college before the permits were required. Take leather gloves for the cables. Maybe even a harness or belt with two clip in points. You donít really need to clip in (I never did, but I was young and invincible), but it is possible to fall and die.  A friend was up there when someone tumbled down between the cables, hit his head, and didnít wake up.

I donít mean to scare you. Itís a fun adventure. Enjoy!
When I did Half Dome, the would rangers dump a huge pile of gloves at the base of the cables. You just grabbed two random glives and went for it. Do they not do that any more?

I found the granite approach to the cables, where the rock slopes away in all four directions, scary as hell. It was harder to push myself across that expanse than to ascend the cables, by far. However, on the descent, I turned around and faced the wall. Facing out was too nerve racking.

Also, there were people doing the cables in fucking flip flops, and I do not mean Tevas or Merills. How they didn't die is beyond me.

amberfocus

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4759 on: May 02, 2021, 10:13:22 PM »


- SNIP -


Truth be told, my feelings are a bit complicated right now, haha. I'm about to FIRE in three weeks, and I'm bipolar-ing between sheer terror and utter tranquility. Mentally swapping the source of my sense of financial security from my job to my stash feels like a crazy leap of faith. (It doesn't help that I'm terrified of heights IRL.) But our numbers are rock solid and I'm about to set my workplace on fire (and not the fun kind of FIRE... or maybe exactly that kind of FIRE... heh), so it's definitely time to go. Making the decision to jump despite being scared shitless of heights means that deep down, I truly trust the safety net. Being able to buy back your time and your life is priceless.

Being only 36 - You can go back to work providing you haven't severely burnt your bridges.  Human resource people will not give you the age discrimination that you would become aware of if you were older.  And,.....even then being older there may still be opportunities just not as many.  People in far less secure situations than yours quit every day.

I second this.  I FIREd on the month of my 27th birthday.  It's now been 24.5 months (or 106 weeks, but who's counting) and still get job offers thrown my way

Yes, those are excellent points. In case of catastrophic portfolio failure, I have marketable skills in my old field; I can contract/temp; one of my co-workers (who is very confused by what I'm doing and possibly thinks I'm in need of therapy) is already referring me to consulting job openings; heck, even a shitty minimum wage or gig economy job would suffice because our spend is so low. It's gonna be fine. It's gonna be fine. It's gonna be fine. Deep breath... it's gonna be fine. :)

evme

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4760 on: May 03, 2021, 03:02:54 AM »
Just curious, for people in this group, what percentage of your net worth does your primary residence represent? For me it'd be something like 5-10% (depends on if you calculate based on price paid or current value), but I'm wondering if that is typical or not among MMM'ers. 

As I've gained NW it has gotten more and more tempting to "upgrade" my lifestyle, and particularly in regards to having a nicer house. So far I have resisted but I've been tempted more and more of late.

SwordGuy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4761 on: May 03, 2021, 05:15:45 AM »
Just curious, for people in this group, what percentage of your net worth does your primary residence represent? For me it'd be something like 5-10% (depends on if you calculate based on price paid or current value), but I'm wondering if that is typical or not among MMM'ers. 

A lot of home features seem like they would be great but are actually meaningless.    You won't use them and they are just something to pay to maintain.

Other features will really improve the quality of your life.

And the answer for which is truly which is up to you and your family.  :)   

As for your question, our home is 12.6% of our net worth.   It's only that high because we made a point of paying it off last year, 10 months after we bought it.   We're FIRED.   Selling our old house and few other non-money making properties, plus paying of our new home, dropped our annual expenditure by a bit over $50k.   (It's early and I forget how much over.)  Basically, in a normal expenditure year it dropped our withdrawal rate to below 0%.

So, it eliminated the sequence of returns risk and meant we didn't really have to watch the pennies to stay within an affordable spend rate.  The former lets me sleep easier and the latter improved our quality of life, we don't feel financially constrained like we did before.  (We knew we were rich but we didn't feel rich.)

jeroly

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4762 on: May 03, 2021, 05:36:09 AM »
Just curious, for people in this group, what percentage of your net worth does your primary residence represent? For me it'd be something like 5-10% (depends on if you calculate based on price paid or current value), but I'm wondering if that is typical or not among MMM'ers. 

A lot of home features seem like they would be great but are actually meaningless.    You won't use them and they are just something to pay to maintain.

Other features will really improve the quality of your life.

And the answer for which is truly which is up to you and your family.  :)   

As for your question, our home is 12.6% of our net worth.   It's only that high because we made a point of paying it off last year, 10 months after we bought it.   We're FIRED.   Selling our old house and few other non-money making properties, plus paying of our new home, dropped our annual expenditure by a bit over $50k.   (It's early and I forget how much over.)  Basically, in a normal expenditure year it dropped our withdrawal rate to below 0%.

So, it eliminated the sequence of returns risk and meant we didn't really have to watch the pennies to stay within an affordable spend rate.  The former lets me sleep easier and the latter improved our quality of life, we don't feel financially constrained like we did before.  (We knew we were rich but we didn't feel rich.)

The question is ambiguous beyond the current/original cost issue - I would've taken the home value, not the equity, into consideration for answering the question.

So if I had a $4 million NW and my home was worth $800k I would've said 20% regardless of whether I had no mortgage (in which case SwordGuy would've also said 20%) or a 10% down mortgage (where SG would've said 2%).

Regardless of what way I interpret the question, my answer would be the same: 0%. I rent. My SO (also eligible for this 'race') would say either 25% or 15% depending on which way she interpreted it.

itchyfeet

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4763 on: May 03, 2021, 05:49:41 AM »
The amount of money I have tied up in my home has always been, and continues to be, one of the roadblocks to FIRE for us.

I hated commuting so 11 years ago we bought a house in a popular suburb right very close to the city centre.

Our house was expensive when we bought it and ridiculously expensive today.

Itís still makes up about 50% of our net worth.

We know we could sell and buy a gorgeous house anywhere outside of Sydney and FIRE.... but we love Sydney.... and arenít quite ready for a sea change/ tree change yet.

We are probably FI (of the far kind) if our house was 30-35% of our NW rather than 50%.

SwordGuy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4764 on: May 03, 2021, 06:11:29 AM »

The question is ambiguous beyond the current/original cost issue - I would've taken the home value, not the equity, into consideration for answering the question.

So if I had a $4 million NW and my home was worth $800k I would've said 20% regardless of whether I had no mortgage (in which case SwordGuy would've also said 20%) or a 10% down mortgage (where SG would've said 2%).


I think all answers are valid, just differently valid. 

Measured as an impact over time, yours is more valid, as a higher priced house will consume more of one's income over time, so it will act as a larger drain on potential market gains because more money is tied up in the market.   The more it cost to purchase, the higher the opportunity cost of not investing the money that could have been invested had a less expensive house been chosen.

Measured as a spot-check to answer the question, "What can I get cash for and how much?", the house cost is inseparable from the mortgage, so the equity (using market value less sales costs) is the right answer.     

A lot of price appreciation, for which the buyer may have had zero impact on (i.e., was just lucky), can hide a lot of sins using this measurement.  Ditto in the opposite direction using market depreciation because it makes the purchase look like a bad financial decision when perhaps it wasn't at the time.   So using purchase price vs. current market value has value when looking at "Did they buy too much house?"

I think different people lean towards different answers to the question based on their situation.     

Thoughts?

BlueHouse

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4765 on: May 03, 2021, 08:08:01 AM »
Just curious, for people in this group, what percentage of your net worth does your primary residence represent? For me it'd be something like 5-10% (depends on if you calculate based on price paid or current value), but I'm wondering if that is typical or not among MMM'ers. 

About 30%.  I don't count it when talking about hitting "my number" because I still live in it and it's not liquid.



A lot of home features seem like they would be great but are actually meaningless.    You won't use them and they are just something to pay to maintain.

Almost every piece of copper in the walls in my home is now useless.  I paid over $5K when building this house to include a security system, intercoms, sound system with in-ceiling speakers, cameras, and tons of other features.  In under 10 years, the doorbell/camera has broken once ($500 replacement), the music module has broken twice (no longer replacing it, so the speakers are hooked up to....nothing), 2 different alarm sensors have malfunctioned in the middle of the night, causing the police to show up with guns drawn one time and scaring the living crap out of me!.  The security cameras are pretty good at preventing some neighborhood problems and I was able to provide photos of carjackers once, but the software for the system is crap and not user-friendly. 

I've stopped fixing things as they break.  Almost everything can now be bought cheaper, more user-friendly, and wireless, so easier to maintain as well. 




GreenEggs

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4766 on: May 03, 2021, 08:32:44 AM »
Our primary residence accounts for about 20% of our NW.  It's waterfront, so a large part of its value is in the land.  The non-waterfront neighboring homes are valued at around 50% of ours. 


We also have a place in the mountains a couple of hours away.  I'd rather live there, but DW is tired of the miserable Winters.  Financially, we would be much better off living at the mountain place and traveling during the cold months. 
« Last Edit: May 03, 2021, 04:27:51 PM by GreenEggs »

pecunia

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4767 on: May 03, 2021, 08:41:34 AM »
I don't count the home in my net worth.  J. L. Collins teaches that owning a home you live in is an expense and not an investment so I've never counted it.  It's around 4 - 5 percent.  It's kind of remarkable when I consider it, but the house is no mansion.

Like a previous poster, I have some wiring issues I need to fix.  Nothing beyond my abilities.  However, I guess they've been beyond my ambition so far.  Yeh - I used to live in a trailer.  Down deep, I am still part trailer trash.

Blissful Biker

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4768 on: May 03, 2021, 10:18:25 AM »
Our home is 25% of our total net worth.  In deciding what matters to us, we chose a nice home.  And it is lovely, we designed it ourselves and it has big mountain views.  I know the math supports not paying off your mortgage but we did it early and are content with the peace of mind that comes from being debt free.

Dicey

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4769 on: May 03, 2021, 01:52:59 PM »
Just curious, for people in this group, what percentage of your net worth does your primary residence represent? For me it'd be something like 5-10% (depends on if you calculate based on price paid or current value), but I'm wondering if that is typical or not among MMM'ers. 

As I've gained NW it has gotten more and more tempting to "upgrade" my lifestyle, and particularly in regards to having a nicer house. So far I have resisted but I've been tempted more and more of late.
We're in a HCOLA. Our unmortgaged house is currently "worth" around $1.7M, which represents about half of our liquid NW. Add in rental properties, DH's Defined Benefit Pension, SS for both of us eventually, and the primary home percentage drops to about 30%.

The point is that percentages don't really matter, it's the total picture that counts. Even though our home value is high, so are the rest of our numbers. It's actual dollars that pay bills and there will be plenty of them, no matter how the percentages shake out.

UnleashHell

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4770 on: May 03, 2021, 02:22:21 PM »
I'm in Florida and its still fairly cheap here (compared to elsewhere)
the equity in the house we live in is only 4% of our net.
total housing equity is only 13% of the net and we have 2 townhomes that we collect rent on so most of our net is in liquid funds.


ysette9

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4771 on: May 03, 2021, 04:15:13 PM »
We are in the club 0% at the moment - we sold recently and are renting. We are struggling to find out next rental, so perhaps ownership will be in the cards in the future, but that is a story for another day.

Congrats @FireLane . I saw more details in your journal about your planned FIRE date and your NW. That is awesome. For as shitty as this past year has been on many fronts it certainly has been kind to the bottom line.

In good news, my husband got approved for "covid leave" where he will be dropping down to three days a week for the next couple of months. We aren't sure how long this covid leave policy will stay in effect. His company oddly doesn't have any formal part time work policy so we'll take it one step at a time to figure out what to do after the leave expires. Worse case scenario he'll suck it up until December and then quit for good. He has nerves, which I understand, but on paper we are $1M over what we had initially calculated our FI number to be, so on paper we should be ok. I totally get the mindset now of "but what about X and what if Y?" that plagues people in their OMY syndrome.

omachi

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4772 on: May 03, 2021, 04:30:24 PM »
Hi everybody, looks like I get to join this thread now. Crossed the number in liquid funds sometime recently, realized it at month end. A little surprised to do so, but I've continued to work at least in part due to job satisfaction from a job change. I was FI a bit before joining this club, and I'm still planning to RE in the not too distant future, once the work starts to lose its luster and this pandemic thing dies down. Until then, contributions and compound interest will keep me racing, even if further accumulation isn't a primary concern anymore.

Much Fishing to Do

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4773 on: May 03, 2021, 05:21:31 PM »
Just curious, for people in this group, what percentage of your net worth does your primary residence represent? For me it'd be something like 5-10% (depends on if you calculate based on price paid or current value), but I'm wondering if that is typical or not among MMM'ers. 

As I've gained NW it has gotten more and more tempting to "upgrade" my lifestyle, and particularly in regards to having a nicer house. So far I have resisted but I've been tempted more and more of late.

So we paid $165k for our house.  Paid off the mortgage in about 7 years and later did some upgrades that mostly added the large outdoor living space we wanted.  Its probably worth about $350k today in our MediumCOL area, which is about 8% of our net worth.

A couple years ago when I was seeing RE quickly approaching I convinced my wife to go look and see if we'd be interested in any upgrading (so I could probably plan an extra year or two of working to help cover the expense).  Turns out there were very few places (all within the 5 miles) we'd willing to move that we thought near as good neighborhoods.  In those we picked out the most expensive house for sale (I think it was like $850k) and toured it.  In the end, we just weren't that impressed.  I saw a property for sale in a different area and thought, now THAT is much better than what we have and I'd be willing to put up with the hassle of moving for that.  It was $3.1M......  This all told us we are already in the right house.   

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4774 on: May 03, 2021, 07:24:24 PM »
Primary residence is about 6%, second home is about 7% and rental property is about 3%.  We own raw property that's about 3%.  We don't include any of that in net worth usually.  None of it generates income and is dead weight.

pecunia

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4775 on: May 03, 2021, 08:36:48 PM »
Hi everybody, looks like I get to join this thread now. Crossed the number in liquid funds sometime recently, realized it at month end. A little surprised to do so, but I've continued to work at least in part due to job satisfaction from a job change. I was FI a bit before joining this club, and I'm still planning to RE in the not too distant future, once the work starts to lose its luster and this pandemic thing dies down. Until then, contributions and compound interest will keep me racing, even if further accumulation isn't a primary concern anymore.

Glad to see ya!

evme

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4776 on: May 03, 2021, 09:23:10 PM »
Our home is 25% of our total net worth.  In deciding what matters to us, we chose a nice home.  And it is lovely, we designed it ourselves and it has big mountain views.  I know the math supports not paying off your mortgage but we did it early and are content with the peace of mind that comes from being debt free.

Thanks for sharing. I've been told by others that NOT paying off the mortgage is the better option, financially speaking, but to me the peace of mind of not having debt is priceless. And you never know, the stock market could tank and last for years, and then it would really suck if you had to sell beaten-down securities to fund the mortgage payments.

evme

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4777 on: May 03, 2021, 09:25:27 PM »
Primary residence is about 6%, second home is about 7% and rental property is about 3%.  We own raw property that's about 3%.  We don't include any of that in net worth usually.  None of it generates income and is dead weight.

Your rental property doesn't generate income and is dead weight?

Also, with two homes does that mean you are snowbirds?

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4778 on: May 04, 2021, 02:04:21 AM »
Hi everybody, looks like I get to join this thread now. Crossed the number in liquid funds sometime recently, realized it at month end. A little surprised to do so, but I've continued to work at least in part due to job satisfaction from a job change. I was FI a bit before joining this club, and I'm still planning to RE in the not too distant future, once the work starts to lose its luster and this pandemic thing dies down. Until then, contributions and compound interest will keep me racing, even if further accumulation isn't a primary concern anymore.
Welcome, @omachi! Your membership card is in the mail.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4779 on: May 04, 2021, 02:29:31 AM »
Welcome in @omachi !!

At the moment my share of my home is about 15% of my total net worth.  We will probably get a bigger place as our kids get older (currently they are sharing a bedroom, which they love, but I can't see them wanting to do that as they get towards teenage years or maybe even tweenage years).  I'd also like a bigger garden as I get more time to look after it.  That could take us to as much as around 33% if we stay in the central city area we're in at the moment ("stamp duty" here is pretty ferocious on higher value properties, so you need to make sure you make the right moves and make them stick): but the balance should still be sufficient to FIRE (similar to @Dicey's point).

We've never had a mortgage (didn't get a place of our own until we were nearly 40 and saved up for it), so we're doing it all wrong from a financial efficiency perspective, but I love the fact that there is very little that could happen now that would leave us forced to move house.  Although renting had a lot of advantages, I never liked the fact that you might have to move at short notice.  For me FI is about security and safety more than anything else. 

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4780 on: May 04, 2021, 04:28:03 AM »
20% or less for now depending on what I use for home value, purchase, purchase plus improvement or the number that Iím likely to sell it for I. The next 6 months.  Iím likely to be joining the 0% club in the next 6 months for about 4 years at least.  Per the published schedule at work, I should know about my transfer in 2 days.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4781 on: May 04, 2021, 08:05:20 AM »
6% of our NW is house equity.

Also, we FINALLY opened up an after-tax brokerage account today, and our NW is 2.9m!!! Crazy we havenít had one until now. We just always stuffed our money in tax advantaged accounts.


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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4782 on: May 04, 2021, 08:42:54 AM »
Welcome, @omachi! Your membership card is in the mail.
Sweet! I didn't know there were membership cards.

My house is a little under 13% of total NW, at least according to Zillow. A fair chunk of that is appreciation since we bought it, though. Local market is also somewhat insane, so who knows. I wouldn't want to be buying a house right now.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4783 on: May 04, 2021, 08:52:52 AM »
I have fun adding new and useless things to my spread sheet.  So house value over total net worth comes out to 14.4%.  Have not had a mortgage for decades, so it's easy enough to calculate as my spread sheet does have a net worth box (which is a worthless number in my opinion), but whatever.

Just crossed the $3.4MM mark.  I also realized I'm not including savings/checking money anywhere.  That's about eighty grand at the moment for no real reason.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4784 on: May 04, 2021, 09:42:17 AM »
Primary residence is about 6%, second home is about 7% and rental property is about 3%.  We own raw property that's about 3%.  We don't include any of that in net worth usually.  None of it generates income and is dead weight.

Your rental property doesn't generate income and is dead weight?

Also, with two homes does that mean you are snowbirds?
rental income isn't worth the hassle.   I guess we're snowbirds.  It's  Louisiana and Florida.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4785 on: May 04, 2021, 10:12:29 AM »
as my spread sheet does have a net worth box (which is a worthless number in my opinion), but whatever.

It's not a worthless number.   It has it's purpose.   It's just that its purpose isn't to calculate your FI%.

If tracked over time it lets you know whether your wealth is trending upwards or downwards and how quickly.    This is important, for example, in knowing you need to change things early before your capital is depleted.   We've all run into stories about people who are surprised that they "suddenly" have gone broke, when a net worth calculation done over time would often have highlighted that danger early enough to fix the problem for the better.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4786 on: May 04, 2021, 10:14:10 AM »
My home is about 10% of my NW, and that's the way I like it. I bought a small condo right around the time of the financial crisis, and it suits me just fine.

Given the sky-high real estate prices in NYC, I could upgrade to a detached single-family home with a backyard and spend decades paying it off... or, for the same amount of money, I could enjoy 40 years of luxurious retirement. Not a hard decision. :)

Congrats @FireLane . I saw more details in your journal about your planned FIRE date and your NW. That is awesome. For as shitty as this past year has been on many fronts it certainly has been kind to the bottom line.

You're not kidding! I'm also around $1M above my original FIRE number. Sometimes I worry that this is unsustainable, that stocks have just front-loaded years of expected future growth. But even if the market grows sluggishly or not at all for the next ten years, at my planned WR I should be just fine.

In good news, my husband got approved for "covid leave" where he will be dropping down to three days a week for the next couple of months. We aren't sure how long this covid leave policy will stay in effect. His company oddly doesn't have any formal part time work policy so we'll take it one step at a time to figure out what to do after the leave expires. Worse case scenario he'll suck it up until December and then quit for good. He has nerves, which I understand, but on paper we are $1M over what we had initially calculated our FI number to be, so on paper we should be ok. I totally get the mindset now of "but what about X and what if Y?" that plagues people in their OMY syndrome.

Congrats, ysette's husband! Mrs. FL's company didn't have a formal part-time policy either, but she asked - politely, but maybe with the subtext that she'd quit if they wouldn't let her do it - and they made an exception for her.

I've seen for myself that if you're a valuable employee, company policy is more what you'd call guidelines than actual rules. It gives you so much bargaining power when you truly don't need the paycheck.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4787 on: May 04, 2021, 11:22:58 AM »
6% of our NW is house equity.

Also, we FINALLY opened up an after-tax brokerage account today, and our NW is 2.9m!!! Crazy we havenít had one until now. We just always stuffed our money in tax advantaged accounts.


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Wow, thats incredible.  I feel like I've maxed out my retirement accounts the best i could over the years and i've ended up with only about one third of the $3.6M invested in tax advantaged accts. Kind of a combination of many years of having no 401k offered, spouse most often being SAHM, and then some late big business years of being able to save a whole lot more than the Solo would allow.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4788 on: May 04, 2021, 11:30:56 AM »


Speaking about being a worry guts, I was thinking (with today's stock market pullback*).. "How much could our investments tank before we were in trouble?"

Well if we stayed in the rental business (not ideal but we could) and took both our DB pensions our would be roughly $10k ABOVE our average spend.

In other words.. The investments could literally go to $zero and we'd be just fine.

* Yes occasionally I still worry about not having enough. In reality, I should be figuring out how to spend more!

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4789 on: May 04, 2021, 01:37:37 PM »
Well, got unofficial, official word, that I will be moving to SFO in September.  So I finally got around to calling PayPal to cancel some monthly donations that I will now be funding via my DAF instead of out of regular cash flow.  I must have signed up using a guest account so it wasnít an easy fix.  But I will say the PayPal customer service was great.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4790 on: May 04, 2021, 02:40:16 PM »
Well, got unofficial, official word, that I will be moving to SFO in September.  So I finally got around to calling PayPal to cancel some monthly donations that I will now be funding via my DAF instead of out of regular cash flow.  I must have signed up using a guest account so it wasnít an easy fix.  But I will say the PayPal customer service was great.

Great, was this a promotion?

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4791 on: May 04, 2021, 03:24:00 PM »
Well, got unofficial, official word, that I will be moving to SFO in September.  So I finally got around to calling PayPal to cancel some monthly donations that I will now be funding via my DAF instead of out of regular cash flow.  I must have signed up using a guest account so it wasnít an easy fix.  But I will say the PayPal customer service was great.

Great, was this a promotion?

Nope itís a lateral move.  I will get a cost of living increase although not enough yo make up the true COLA.  But it will max out my pension high 3 as well.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4792 on: May 04, 2021, 03:42:50 PM »
Just curious, for people in this group, what percentage of your net worth does your primary residence represent? For me it'd be something like 5-10% (depends on if you calculate based on price paid or current value), but I'm wondering if that is typical or not among MMM'ers. 

As I've gained NW it has gotten more and more tempting to "upgrade" my lifestyle, and particularly in regards to having a nicer house. So far I have resisted but I've been tempted more and more of late.

Based on current value, ours is about 17% of our net worth. We've been in the same house since the 90s. We've put a lot into it to turn it from a tiny scraper into a tiny cute cottage. It was a little rough while raising a kid, but now it's the right size for us and we locked in low property taxes. I'm addicted to Trulia house porn, but every time I think about a bigger, more expensive house, I remind myself of the pain of maintenance, higher taxes, etc. Staying in our starter home was a huge factor on our path to FI.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4793 on: May 04, 2021, 04:10:48 PM »
Well, got unofficial, official word, that I will be moving to SFO in September.  So I finally got around to calling PayPal to cancel some monthly donations that I will now be funding via my DAF instead of out of regular cash flow.  I must have signed up using a guest account so it wasnít an easy fix.  But I will say the PayPal customer service was great.

Are you moving to the city itself or the airport? ;)

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4794 on: May 04, 2021, 04:58:06 PM »
Well, got unofficial, official word, that I will be moving to SFO in September.  So I finally got around to calling PayPal to cancel some monthly donations that I will now be funding via my DAF instead of out of regular cash flow.  I must have signed up using a guest account so it wasnít an easy fix.  But I will say the PayPal customer service was great.

Are you moving to the city itself or the airport? ;)

Well each of our offices happen to have a 3 letter code for internal designations.  SFO happens to be both the airport and the internal office designation.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4795 on: May 04, 2021, 10:16:00 PM »
SFO is one of my favorite cities, and there's lots to do nearby.  You're an easy drive to Wine Country, Redwoods, the Lost Coast, Yosemite. 

Thanks for the tips on Yosemite.  I'll mention the gloves to my climbers. 

Welcome to this milestone, @omanchi .  We know it don't come easy.

Running the percentage numbers was fun:

My house is roughly 14% of our NW. 
Liquid assets about the same, 15 -16%, meaning my stocks and bonds and cash in savings accounts. 
More complicated cash 7%  (an inherited annuity, a First TD Note).  This value is based on a 3 year payout.  It'd be less if I cashed out tomorrow. 

That leads me to the surprising math that our rental properties are roughly 63% of our NW, not 90% as I've been guessing for years.  But if you add the primary residence, it's 77% in Real Estate.

With Real Estate valuations jumping up at every closed sale, watching the value trackers has been very fun this month.  Every time there's a new comparable, the numbers just floor me.  How could those run of the mill houses POSSIBLY be selling for those prices?  Yet they are... According to Mint, my NW jumped $200K last month (they use Zillow's Zestimates.) and over 500K in 2021.   It's astonishing.   I'm actually planning on selling one soon, and cashing in on my least favorite rental.    We're far enough down the line that we don't feel like holding onto everything for another cycle,  when what goes up, must come down. 

 Rents are skyrocketing also, but we have long term tenants and have always kept our rents low.   Now they are very, very low, which means our nice tenants probably aren't moving in the foreseeable future.   We're making our choices now based on lifestyle and happiness, because there's enough money for whatever we want to do.   Keeping easy tenants happy makes for an easy(ier) life.  I actually got a thank you letter from a tenant whose rent I modestly raised.   Even with the increase, his rent is at least $500 below market rates. 
« Last Edit: May 04, 2021, 10:20:24 PM by JoJoP »

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4796 on: May 05, 2021, 01:08:00 AM »
Hi everybody, looks like I get to join this thread now. Crossed the number in liquid funds sometime recently, realized it at month end. A little surprised to do so, but I've continued to work at least in part due to job satisfaction from a job change. I was FI a bit before joining this club, and I'm still planning to RE in the not too distant future, once the work starts to lose its luster and this pandemic thing dies down. Until then, contributions and compound interest will keep me racing, even if further accumulation isn't a primary concern anymore.

I've actually been wondering a lot why there aren't more Mustachians joining us these days!  We are at the tail end of a massive slow but sustained run...  I suppose it might've pulled back a bit today, but this year has been quite strong thus far which should have been compounding quite nicely on top of a solid base for those long term save and invest types... 

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4797 on: May 05, 2021, 05:52:48 AM »
Hi everybody, looks like I get to join this thread now. Crossed the number in liquid funds sometime recently, realized it at month end. A little surprised to do so, but I've continued to work at least in part due to job satisfaction from a job change. I was FI a bit before joining this club, and I'm still planning to RE in the not too distant future, once the work starts to lose its luster and this pandemic thing dies down. Until then, contributions and compound interest will keep me racing, even if further accumulation isn't a primary concern anymore.

I've actually been wondering a lot why there aren't more Mustachians joining us these days!  We are at the tail end of a massive slow but sustained run...  I suppose it might've pulled back a bit today, but this year has been quite strong thus far which should have been compounding quite nicely on top of a solid base for those long term save and invest types...


I FIREd in 2019 but if I hit my number solely bc of the crazy run up of the last 12-15 months (with that little blip in the middle)  I would feel apprehensive bc it feels unreal and fake bc of the helicopter tons of money in the system. I would definitely want more cushion for SORR.

Plus they are all "Working" from home in their PJs so why give up the check to do the same thing.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4798 on: May 05, 2021, 07:41:29 AM »
Hi everybody, looks like I get to join this thread now. Crossed the number in liquid funds sometime recently, realized it at month end. A little surprised to do so, but I've continued to work at least in part due to job satisfaction from a job change. I was FI a bit before joining this club, and I'm still planning to RE in the not too distant future, once the work starts to lose its luster and this pandemic thing dies down. Until then, contributions and compound interest will keep me racing, even if further accumulation isn't a primary concern anymore.

I've actually been wondering a lot why there aren't more Mustachians joining us these days!  We are at the tail end of a massive slow but sustained run...  I suppose it might've pulled back a bit today, but this year has been quite strong thus far which should have been compounding quite nicely on top of a solid base for those long term save and invest types...

Other than losing their jobs or going stir-crazy working from home (so they aren't posting) or massive medical bills or death from a bad case of covid, I got no ideas to offer.

Hell, April was an extremely expensive month - to the tune of $30,000 in expenses above and beyond normal (improvements to our home, home repairs, and both of us really splurging on our hobbies) and our net worth was still $23,000 higher than it was at the start of April.

Oh, it's also possible that a lot of folks had a lower than $2m FIRE number and they just up and quit.   

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #4799 on: May 05, 2021, 08:56:12 AM »
Oh, it's also possible that a lot of folks had a lower than $2m FIRE number and they just up and quit.

My FI number is lower than $2M and would have RE but...

Plus they are all "Working" from home in their PJs so why give up the check to do the same thing.

Though the quotes around working can be removed. Well, I'm providing plenty of value at least. I'm salaried. I'll let the hours work in my favor while I can. Too responsible to collect a check to do nothing, but hell if I'm going to track down more to do than they ask of me.