The Money Mustache Community

General Discussion => Throw Down the Gauntlet => Topic started by: Car Jack on February 15, 2017, 07:54:42 AM

Title: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
Post by: Car Jack on February 15, 2017, 07:54:42 AM
I do understand that many here feel that once we hit a huge number like $2M, we *MUST* declare FI and retire.  I'm not there and have an age retirement plan rather than a number and know that DW will feel better, the bigger that number is on the spreadsheet showing total invested assets.  Since my big "2" seems like it's going to stick (RSUs vested today, ESPP the first of March and $10k sitting in a Citi account to get that $400 bonus releases mid March), I think the next goal is the next big number, and the number of the counting shall be....3.

As with the "2" thread, I'm counting investable assets.  Not house, not rental property, not cars, not silver coins.  Too easy to cheat with stuff that needs to be valued, in my humble opinion.

I've seen others note that the first $M is hard, the second easier and the 3rd, 4th etc progressively easier.  I guess we'll see and since I plan to retire about 2 years from now, we'll see how that works when the traditional big income (well.....100k ish engineer's salary) stops and I take odd jobs at hardware stores or driving for Uber or plowing snow from business parking lots for fun.

I'm a recent Bogle follower and only looked at my finances in the last 5 years.  Someone mentioned that people should know the expense ratios of all of their investments.  That made sense to me.  It also dawned on me that I didn't even know what all of my investment accounts were.  A spreadsheet was started, ERs were filled in and comparisons between Contrafund and Total Market Index were performed.  Once convinced that index funds perform relatively equally to actively managed ones, everything was switched over to Index.  Conglomeration was done, moving tiny, old 401k's, 403b's, selling wholevariablewhoknows policies, maxing tax advantaged space and opening a taxable account to put the excess.  All the while, my older son hit college and FAFSA laughed in my face for aid but my mom and DWs dad have been generous, directly paying part of the tuition bill every semester.  Son #2 hit a private high school after his public one totally failed him.  Not a hoidy toidy $70k high school.....$8500 all in a year.  As an aid, I sold off my toy car....a Lotus Elise and replaced it with a car my son could drive to his summer job and use in college....an 04 Outback (45k miles!) bought from the father in-law who bought it new. 

So the plan going forward.  Stay the course.  As the money becomes available, invest more in taxable (Schwab ETFs) and keep the cars as long as possible.  I'm a car guy with a track history, but haven't seen the track from inside a racecar in maybe 7 years (I instructed for a dozen years before this).  So not having a racecar and all that goes with it for expenses has reduced expenses.  We instead visit Lime Rock a few times in the summer and watch the pros do it out there.  I do a bit of credit card and bank account churning for bonuses and have signed up with the new tradeline company to try to cash in on that.....<anxiously awaiting>.  My "life" spreadsheet is broken down by year and events expected and I fill in reality as it happens. 

So I am interested in stories from others and their plans going forward.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: bigchrisb on February 20, 2017, 04:12:40 PM
Sounds like you are well on your way!  Out of curiosity, do you have a home mortgage and own your own home?  I found it psychologically necessary to track home equity while I was paying down the home, as otherwise I had a propensity to over-leverage myself.  Now that I've fully offset the debt, I'm more agnostic about it.  Depending on approaches, I belong either in the race to $2m or the race to $3m, as net worth including residential property is about $2.75m, while net worth of just liquid stocks, bonds and cash is more like $1.75. 

Sounds like you are on auto-pilot and will cruise over your target given a bit of time.

For me, I think I'm about to see a slowdown in the accumulation rate - taking a sabbatical/trial FIRE while my wife does an overseas posting, and thinking about throwing some kids into the mix.  I'm expecting the next million target to take a few years, and be more in the hands of the markets than determined by my earned income.

 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on February 21, 2017, 06:38:57 AM
I paid off my house about 15 years ago.  Back then, I was an overly cautious investor, having bought company stock during the '87 selloff.  So paying off debt and the mortgage was the only ways I invested.

There's nothing wrong with tracking net worth and using that number for goals to attain.  I constantly change my goals once one is reached.  I had the $2M goal for quite a while for investments only.  Then it was to hit $1M within just my rollover IRA (not quite there).  When I hit that, I'll set some new, short term, attainable, arbitrary goal.  I've actually got one small goal in my Vanguard account to get back to zero.  It's been in developed international for about 2 years and is still under water.  I'm $2900 from getting to zero on a $250k account.

I still sweat the small stuff.  From the tradeline thread, I read about low balance forgiveness and tried it on several of my cards.  $0.98 forgiven on Barclays and $1.96 forgiven on discover.  Sounds like mouse nuts but free money is free money.  I showed my wife the Discover statement which also gave me $0.10 in rewards because I spent that $1.96 on gas, which is a 5% category this quarter.  And yah.....I pick up pennies on the sidewalk.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: TheAnonOne on February 24, 2017, 09:49:07 AM


I do understand that many here feel that once we hit a huge number like $2M, we *MUST* declare FI and retire.

Well, you MUST declare FI because you are FI either way.

RE has never been a requirement here, the point is doing what YOU want after that point because BEFORE FI you are more or less forced to work to survive.


All that being said....by the time someone hits FI, work starts to have an ever decreasing effect on your networth. When someone is saving 100k a year, and only has 100k in the bank, work is pushing them 100% higher!

If they have 2 million in the bank, that same 100k is only 5% so ultimately, one person working and one person NOT working will go from 2 to 3 million at a somewhat similar rate.

To make it a bit more extreme. If you had 100mil in the bank, would you keep work a whole year to go from 100,000,000 to 100,100,000? Probably not.

Ultimately, it's up to you, that's the best part about FI! Though, for many here, @ 2 million, the desire to work and indeed the effectiveness both decline.

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: PathtoFIRE on February 24, 2017, 02:12:52 PM
Congrats on reaching 2, and looking forward to seeing you hit 3.  We are also on the race to 3, having just crossed over to 1 literally today (at least for the first time, who knows how many times we'll zigzag in the next few years).
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on February 26, 2017, 12:34:07 PM
Best part about being a Mustacian between $2M and $3M is that no one knows.
Mustacians in this savings bracket don't stick out as presenting an image of being "rich."
Most people who display the image of being rich really are living paycheck to paycheck.

A guy bought in iPhone 5 off me via Craigslist about a month ago. He was in the US from Costa Rica in order to skydive at 7 different locations. He drove a 1990s VW van (not old enough to have value and definitely not running well). He looked like a 50 year old hippy, yet I would wager that he is more financially independent than most of my gold-collar friends.

Stealth wealth is the place for me.  I'm just not comfortable letting people know my NW has crested 2M.  Since we still work it doesn't show much.  I shop at the dollar store and Goodwill.   My vehicle is 9 years old.  We haven't moved out of the home we bought in 1992.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on April 21, 2017, 07:35:40 AM
Best part about being a Mustacian between $2M and $3M is that no one knows.
Mustacians in this savings bracket don't stick out as presenting an image of being "rich."
Most people who display the image of being rich really are living paycheck to paycheck.

A guy bought in iPhone 5 off me via Craigslist about a month ago. He was in the US from Costa Rica in order to skydive at 7 different locations. He drove a 1990s VW van (not old enough to have value and definitely not running well). He looked like a 50 year old hippy, yet I would wager that he is more financially independent than most of my gold-collar friends.

Stealth wealth is the place for me.  I'm just not comfortable letting people know my NW has crested 2M.  Since we still work it doesn't show much.  I shop at the dollar store and Goodwill.   My vehicle is 9 years old.  We haven't moved out of the home we bought in 1992.


Me too!  While we are not quite at 2M yet ( see the other thread ), we should be there soon.

Stealth wealth is awesome.  We also stayed in our original home in a modest neighborhood.  I really don't feel the need to do the 'keeping up with the Joneses' thing like so many are starting to do again.  I can guarantee you that many who do that are only presenting an image.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Koogie on April 21, 2017, 07:44:34 AM
Just crested into this bracket recently on the back of the market surge (based on our liquid portfolio only).  I have a feeling we'll dip into and out of this bracket over time based on returns.  Have no real plans to hit 3MM (since we are both already semi-RE)   but you never know what the future holds.
 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on April 21, 2017, 01:17:18 PM
I'm probably working till about June 2019.  I want to say I retired at 50 and that's the last month to make the claim.   Gives us time to fund two more rounds of 401ks and Roth IRAs.  Will start HSA then as well.  Our youngest is headed to trade school and should finish up about then.  Gives me time to hike the AT SOBO south from Maine.   Going to use vacation time to start working north from GA early 2019 for a few hundred miles. 
Then not sure presently where we go.  Hope to spend about half of what the 2M will yield so it can grow. Will probably find work if it dips below 2M for very long.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: markbike528CBX on April 21, 2017, 01:53:16 PM
Replying to sneak in by cheating (counting house equity for this purpose).
1.9M liquid (90% equities) and net house equity  ~0.3M.

I'm  hoping to be in honestly (liquid NW only) soon.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on April 21, 2017, 09:01:19 PM
Replying to sneak in by cheating (counting house equity for this purpose).
1.9M liquid (90% equities) and net house equity  ~0.3M.

I'm  hoping to be in honestly (liquid NW only) soon.

Lots of us will be legitimate soon.  We'll have the option of hanging out with those slouches on the 1M to 2M thread till then.  ;)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on April 21, 2017, 09:03:27 PM
Just crested into this bracket recently on the back of the market surge (based on our liquid portfolio only).  I have a feeling we'll dip into and out of this bracket over time based on returns.  Have no real plans to hit 3MM (since we are both already semi-RE)   but you never know what the future holds.

You made it this far I'd think 3M is on autopilot.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on April 21, 2017, 09:05:12 PM
Best part about being a Mustacian between $2M and $3M is that no one knows.
Mustacians in this savings bracket don't stick out as presenting an image of being "rich."
Most people who display the image of being rich really are living paycheck to paycheck.

A guy bought in iPhone 5 off me via Craigslist about a month ago. He was in the US from Costa Rica in order to skydive at 7 different locations. He drove a 1990s VW van (not old enough to have value and definitely not running well). He looked like a 50 year old hippy, yet I would wager that he is more financially independent than most of my gold-collar friends.

Stealth wealth is the place for me.  I'm just not comfortable letting people know my NW has crested 2M.  Since we still work it doesn't show much.  I shop at the dollar store and Goodwill.   My vehicle is 9 years old.  We haven't moved out of the home we bought in 1992.


Me too!  While we are not quite at 2M yet ( see the other thread ), we should be there soon.

Stealth wealth is awesome.  We also stayed in our original home in a modest neighborhood.  I really don't feel the need to do the 'keeping up with the Joneses' thing like so many are starting to do again.  I can guarantee you that many who do that are only presenting an image.
 
Hard to believe it's really real at times.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: begood on May 04, 2017, 02:41:19 PM
*waves* Hi! I'm coming over from the Race to $1M to $2M thread. Copied my intro info from over there:

Quote
Our net worth is at 2.3 right now. My husband maxes out his 403(b), which, including maxing catch-up contributions  and the employer match, added up to $30.5K last year. But it read as "noise" (redacted poorly worded phrasing) didn't affect our  overall net worth much. The additions we are making don't make a big difference when the market goes up, and they won't make a big difference when the market goes down.

We live in provided housing at my husband's job, and we don't want to be landlords, so we haven't had real estate since we lost $80K on the sale of our house in 2009. We have REITs but no equity. So aside from 7% we keep in money market accounts and a CD because if my husband lost his job, we'd lose both his income and housing, our entire stache is out there in "Return is Not Guaranteed Land", which feels darker and more foreboding the older I get.

We made our first million by saving in a corporate culture where most of our peers spent. The climb to the second million got a huge boost with a $300K inheritance in 2014. But now I don't see a way to 3 or 4, so I would love to hear more from libertarian4321 about why those are easier/inevitable. Frankly, I'm more worried about that value dropping in half than I am convinced it will double.

Besides not having any home equity, the looming truth of eventual COLLEGE COSTS is starting to set in. I've got a bright, artistic, introverted, straight-As ninth grader who to date has absolutely tanked her standardized tests and would flounder in a big university environment. So we are looking at small liberal arts colleges (SLAC) that cost umpteen dollars a year.

And the whole healthcare thing is literally giving me headache today. Aging is a preexisting condition - we're all going to get it eventually. Even at 52, I'm basically uninsurable on the open market. Do we all just hope we can keep jobs with health insurance?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on May 04, 2017, 02:50:12 PM
*waves* Hi! I'm coming over from the Race to $1M to $2M thread. Copied my intro info from over there:

Quote
Our net worth is at 2.3 right now. My husband maxes out his 403(b), which, including maxing catch-up contributions  and the employer match, added up to $30.5K last year. But it read as "noise" (redacted poorly worded phrasing) didn't affect our  overall net worth much. The additions we are making don't make a big difference when the market goes up, and they won't make a big difference when the market goes down.

We live in provided housing at my husband's job, and we don't want to be landlords, so we haven't had real estate since we lost $80K on the sale of our house in 2009. We have REITs but no equity. So aside from 7% we keep in money market accounts and a CD because if my husband lost his job, we'd lose both his income and housing, our entire stache is out there in "Return is Not Guaranteed Land", which feels darker and more foreboding the older I get.

We made our first million by saving in a corporate culture where most of our peers spent. The climb to the second million got a huge boost with a $300K inheritance in 2014. But now I don't see a way to 3 or 4, so I would love to hear more from libertarian4321 about why those are easier/inevitable. Frankly, I'm more worried about that value dropping in half than I am convinced it will double.

Besides not having any home equity, the looming truth of eventual COLLEGE COSTS is starting to set in. I've got a bright, artistic, introverted, straight-As ninth grader who to date has absolutely tanked her standardized tests and would flounder in a big university environment. So we are looking at small liberal arts colleges (SLAC) that cost umpteen dollars a year.

And the whole healthcare thing is literally giving me headache today. Aging is a preexisting condition - we're all going to get it eventually. Even at 52, I'm basically uninsurable on the open market. Do we all just hope we can keep jobs with health insurance?

Us too!  Our 12th grader does great in school but also has not-so-great standardized test scores.  It was the same way with my wife and I.  Frankly, I think standardized tests are a complete joke ( because I'm not good at them..I'm sure ).  She is going to go to our in-state university though.  However, even that can really add up.

And I'm in the same boat with the healthcare issues.  Our family DOES have someone with a 'pre-existing'' condition and it is downright scary to think what might happen.  Folks only seem to be against all of these 'pre-existing' condition protections until it happens to them or someone in their family.  I have seen it time and time again.  It just boggles my mind...


Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: markbike528CBX on May 04, 2017, 02:57:00 PM
.............. So we are looking at small liberal arts colleges (SLAC) that cost umpteen dollars a year.

While your situation might be different, I note that there are scholarships and the like out there, sometimes linked to a specific school and situation (see below).  I found Juniata College to be affordable, a great school (as opposed to a big frat house party).   I mention it since your location is Middle-Atlantic.

When I visited (34 years ago) I was given a tour by a full professor of chemistry, who explained Nuclear Magnetic Resonance in a single, simple sentence.  That professor is finally slimming down his hours this year.  Going back for 30th reunion this year.


 One of the few scholarships for left-handed students is the Frederick and Mary F. Beckley Scholarship, which was created in 1979 at Juniata College in Pennsylvania. Worth $1,000 to $1,500 annually, this scholarship is reserved for lefties who have completed at least their freshman year at Juniata with top academic achievement above the 3.3 GPA mark and campus leadership. Applications must include two personal references, proof of financial need, and certification of grades.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: begood on May 04, 2017, 03:00:47 PM
.............. So we are looking at small liberal arts colleges (SLAC) that cost umpteen dollars a year.

While your situation might be different, I note that there are scholarships and the like out there, sometimes linked to a specific school and situation (see below).  I found Juniata College to be affordable, a great school (as opposed to a big frat house party).   I mention it since your location is Middle-Atlantic.

When I visited (34 years ago) I was given a tour by a full professor of chemistry, who explained Nuclear Magnetic Resonance in a single, simple sentence.  That professor is finally slimming down his hours this year.  Going back for 30th reunion this year.


 One of the few scholarships for left-handed students is the Frederick and Mary F. Beckley Scholarship, which was created in 1979 at Juniata College in Pennsylvania. Worth $1,000 to $1,500 annually, this scholarship is reserved for lefties who have completed at least their freshman year at Juniata with top academic achievement above the 3.3 GPA mark and campus leadership. Applications must include two personal references, proof of financial need, and certification of grades.

Thanks for that info on Juniata, markbike528CBX. As luck would have it, my daughter is a leftie! However, we will not have "proof of financial need", since we're here on this thread. :)

We're going to look at test-optional schools. She should have a pretty darn good art portfolio to offer up instead of SAT scores, and my understanding is that a lot of colleges do just sort of wave their hands and "grant" lower tuition than the sticker price, at least once you're down below the Top 50 in the rankings.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: PathtoFIRE on May 05, 2017, 09:39:08 AM
There are a number of smaller colleges that provide free tuition. I did a google search, and the number vary, here is one of the top links, but take a look yourself
http://www.valuecolleges.com/top-25-tuition-free-colleges/
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on May 05, 2017, 02:19:02 PM
I think you'll indeed find that the lower ranked a school, the more merit aid your daughter will attract.  My son nearly flunked out freshman and sophomore year of high school and spent junior and senior years bringing his overall gpa slightly above average.  He went to a lower ranking technical private college his first year and received 25% of total cost in merit aid.  We get zip through FAFSA. 

It's definately tough.  Have a job and you make too much (anything above the government's official poverty level is "available to pay for college") but retire early and with health insurance so up in the air, how do you pay for that?

I've got one half way through college and another who is a freshman in high school.  With both of them, there is the expectation that they're not just "going to college".  If there is not a well defined career from the chosen major, I'll be funding plumbing or HVAC school.  The cost of a Lamborghini Huracan (what my older son's college costs.....no, really, the MSRP is a direct match) for an engineering degree I can handle.  For an underwater basket weaving degree?  Nope.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: begood on May 05, 2017, 02:46:00 PM
I hear you, Car Jack. I feel like things are different now. When I went to college in the early 1980s, college was when you figured out what you wanted to do with your life. Now we expect high school kids to know by the time they pick a college, so that college can match their career goal.

I'm hoping my daughter doesn't get star-struck at the idea of an art college. I'd much much rather she go to a LAC and double major - art and business, art and economics, graphic design and marketing, or major/minor. I have always told her that she IS an artist, but that vocation and avocation are not always the same thing, and she does need to be able to support herself.

But life is long and people change and grow. My dad didn't start his life's work until 40. He didn't start college until age 31, after serving in WWII. He didn't know as a soldier from a small mill town in New Jersey that he'd end up dean of a top journalism school twenty-five years later.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on May 07, 2017, 08:08:36 AM
Art and business is a good match.  I played in our church band for several years and our best singer was a music college grad.  Between services, she lamented that she didn't take at least music business, rather than just music performance because at 25, she had no choice but to live in her parents basement.

Another example I'll throw out there is my sister.  She received and art degree but finding no jobs in art, took a legal admin type course.  She's worked in law offices for many years doing the background work that law offices do.  She still does her art for fun (we have great paintings of our cats) but makes no money from it.

Changing majors can be ok.  My older son did this.  He was in a computer engineering program and just didn't intuitively get it.  I'm a EE and noticed his inability to look at a circuit and figure out generally what it did.  He could go through the 9 pages of math and come up with the equation defining it but not understand what's going on.  He switched to civil engineering where things made much more sense.  This was a great thing to realize.  Sure, some credits were somewhat lost but he didn't end up at the end of a Bachelors degree with an occupation that he would grow to hate. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on May 07, 2017, 11:35:26 AM
I thought I might throw a marker in here.

I hope I don't fall to the temptation to actively join the race to $3M, but fear I might.

Firstly, our progress thus far.....

In March we passed $2.5M AUD. not so long ago that would have been $2.5M USD, but not so anymore. I should pass $2M USD at some point this year, all going to plan.

We are currently renting, but do own 2 houses which are rented out, one was our former home before we moved Overseas for work. We are not sure whether we will move back there or sell. Currently the plan is to sell and buy something significantly cheaper. The other place was bought purely as a rental. We do plan on buying a home at some point, so our invested NW will take a hit at some point.

So with financial introductions done, back to the fear that I might be tempted to race to $3M USD.....

.... are you ready for some MMM blasphemy.... :-O

Whilst $2.5M is a lot of money, i am a little tempted with the thought that if I don't touch that money, then 10 years from now it will most likely be worth $5 million, and 20 years from now, when I would be a normal retirement age, it could potentially be worth $10 million.

$10 million is a crazy amount of money!!!!.... even if it is only Aussie dollars.

I struggle to imagine how we could possibly spend $500,000 a year. I certainly can't even fathom being worth $10 million, but somehow we have put ourselves in a position where, even if we never save another cent, we could end up very wealthy with a NW of $10 million. Maybe our mustachian selves will need a makeover. Maybe we will buy a second car. Lol.

So where to from here.....

My DW is a school teacher and loves her job. She is still in her 30s (just) with no plans of retiring. She wants to work maybe 6 months a year once I stop work. Her part time wage From 6 months/ year of work will cover about 60% of our expenses, so for us to keep piling up money by not touching the stash at all, I would only need to find something that pays a fraction of what I currently earn. I definitely don't want to work more than 6 months a year, but would definitely contemplate some form of contract/ seasonal work, maybe a few company directorships or something like that.

So plan A is to FIRE in 2 years once we hit $3M AUD in net worth (2.25M USD). We will then take a long trip, maybe a year or so and relocate back to Australia..... we can then live quite a spendypants FIRED life with no more work.

Plan G (for greedy) is the same as plan A, but once we get back to Oz we seek to cover our costs through part time work, and watch our NW climb over time to $5M, and maybe even $10M in the extreme case.

I don't think we will be able to make a decision until after I pull the pin on the current job 2 years from now. Counting down the days to our first FIRE.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on May 07, 2017, 11:57:14 PM
One word, itchyfeet: philanthropy.

PTF. If I include the value of DH's defined benefit pension, we're there. I'm not counting our paid-for 1.3M home or the equity in our (lightly mortgaged) SFH rental properties. We're not racing anymore though, just cruising along, enjoying life, and the scenery, and smelling the roses.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: begood on May 08, 2017, 05:23:11 AM
One word, itchyfeet: philanthropy.

PTF. If I include the value of DH's defined benefit pension, we're there. I'm not counting our paid-for 1.3M home or the equity in our (lightly mortgaged) SFH rental properties. We're not racing anymore though, just cruising along, enjoying life, and the scenery, and smelling the roses.

Dicey, if you don't mind my asking, how do you assign a value to your husband's defined benefit pension? My husband should get about $27K/year (flat,non-COLA'd, 50% joint survivor) starting in 13 years. He worked for the MNC (multinational corporation) for 20 years, then moved on to a second career at age 43. He could take the pension earlier, but the amount would drop precipitously, so we hope to wait until he's 65. The pension is insured by PBGC.

We also have the option of retiree health insurance through the company, but would have to pay both the employer and employee amounts, currently $18K/year. In the current unstable environment, that might be the only way I could get health insurance at all if my husband lost his job. Expensive as it would be, at least it is an option we can keep in our back pocket.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on May 08, 2017, 07:44:20 AM
Caught the spread sheet up to date since the new values of my savings bonds have clicked over for May.  Now at $2.1M.

I think I'm also ultra conservative on my numbers.  I have a very small pension coming where I could take $53k lump sum right now if I wanted (I left the job in 1993) and do not include it in any of my numbers.  I probably should count it but I guess I always look for any downside that might happen.  I'm happy that the pension is at Fidelity now (the original company no longer exists). 

I love doing mouse nuts kinda things.  My insurance was due so I went online and made 3 payments.  First 2 were with new cards that I had to get the spend to collect the bonus.  Then I overpaid the thing with my double cash.  Just got an overpayment check Friday, so there's $20 in undeserved points that I'm happy to keep.  :D
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Laura33 on May 08, 2017, 08:00:20 AM
Dicey, if you don't mind my asking, how do you assign a value to your husband's defined benefit pension? My husband should get about $27K/year (flat,non-COLA'd, 50% joint survivor) starting in 13 years.

Well, you didn't ask me :-), but what I do is divide by .04, to figure how how much the "'stache-equivalent" amount is.  E.g., to take out $27K/yr at the 4% rule, I'd need $675K.  Now, that is the 'stache-equivalent in 13 years, when he is eligible for that $27K/yr.  So if you want the current value of that, you could present-value it back to today's dollars.  But personally, I don't care that much -- I just like to know that, hey, in 13 years, I will have the equivalent of $675K more in my 'stache. 

But actually, even that is bass-ackwards, because the whole point of the 'stache is to throw off income -- so when you already know the income, you don't even need to calculate an equivalent 'stache value.  So in your case, I'd just knock the $27K off of the annual income you need, and then figure out how much else you need to save to cover the delta.  E.g., I need $40K/yr, I have $27K/yr already guaranteed, so my delta is $13K/yr.  Ergo, 4% rule, I need $13K x 25 = $325K more in my 'stache in 13 years. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: begood on May 08, 2017, 08:09:53 AM
Dicey, if you don't mind my asking, how do you assign a value to your husband's defined benefit pension? My husband should get about $27K/year (flat,non-COLA'd, 50% joint survivor) starting in 13 years.

Well, you didn't ask me :-), but what I do is divide by .04, to figure how how much the "'stache-equivalent" amount is.  E.g., to take out $27K/yr at the 4% rule, I'd need $675K.  Now, that is the 'stache-equivalent in 13 years, when he is eligible for that $27K/yr.  So if you want the current value of that, you could present-value it back to today's dollars.  But personally, I don't care that much -- I just like to know that, hey, in 13 years, I will have the equivalent of $675K more in my 'stache. 

But actually, even that is bass-ackwards, because the whole point of the 'stache is to throw off income -- so when you already know the income, you don't even need to calculate an equivalent 'stache value.  So in your case, I'd just knock the $27K off of the annual income you need, and then figure out how much else you need to save to cover the delta.  E.g., I need $40K/yr, I have $27K/yr already guaranteed, so my delta is $13K/yr.  Ergo, 4% rule, I need $13K x 25 = $325K more in my 'stache in 13 years.

Laura33, I could hug you! Thank you for laying it all out so clearly for me. That's pretty awesome. And it reassures me that we probably did the right thing not taking a lump sum when it was offered a couple of years ago, since it was less than 1/3 of the equation you posted above. I realize we're rolling the dice on the annuity being what's promised. The pension is insured with PBGC, so he should get something.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on May 08, 2017, 08:34:10 AM
I have a small defined benefit pension entitlement as well from 55, that will be CPI adjusted, with 50% to be paid to DW after I croak.

I value it similar to you. Ie: Entitlement in today's $ x 25, inflated forward 10 years at 3% inflation and discounted at 7%.

Being a spreadsheet nerd, the thing I like about the inflating/ discounting is that every month I unwind the inflation/discount by another month, and my stash grows :-)

I use a multiple of 25x to honor the 4% rule, but in the context of SWRs the pension is worth more, because it's not subject to sequence of returns risk, so you could prob even user a higher multiple, as you could technically take a riskier view on your remaining stash thanks to the pension. There is 100% certainty my pension will last 30, 40 or 50 years. However long I live post 55. Just as long as the Govt doesn't go bankrupt.

I do agree that once I am receiving the pension, the most correct way to factor in its value into planning is just to reduce the expenditure to be covered by the "stash" by the amount of the pension. But for today, for NW calculations, I like to assign a value to it. It makes me feel closer to my goal.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: wannabe-stache on May 16, 2017, 01:50:57 PM
I paid off my house about 15 years ago.  Back then, I was an overly cautious investor, having bought company stock during the '87 selloff.  So paying off debt and the mortgage was the only ways I invested.

There's nothing wrong with tracking net worth and using that number for goals to attain.  I constantly change my goals once one is reached.  I had the $2M goal for quite a while for investments only.  Then it was to hit $1M within just my rollover IRA (not quite there).  When I hit that, I'll set some new, short term, attainable, arbitrary goal.  I've actually got one small goal in my Vanguard account to get back to zero.  It's been in developed international for about 2 years and is still under water.  I'm $2900 from getting to zero on a $250k account.

I still sweat the small stuff.  From the tradeline thread, I read about low balance forgiveness and tried it on several of my cards.  $0.98 forgiven on Barclays and $1.96 forgiven on discover.  Sounds like mouse nuts but free money is free money.  I showed my wife the Discover statement which also gave me $0.10 in rewards because I spent that $1.96 on gas, which is a 5% category this quarter.  And yah.....I pick up pennies on the sidewalk.

i am curious.  at what point do you loosen up?  when you have $3M, will you be "ok" spending $ on going out to eat?  buying a nice bottle of wine? etc.?

i am new to this line of thinking.  i have always been a big saver but i had jobs that allowed me to spend as well.  i have approx. $1M of savings (my wife has an additional $500K) and we are only 37 and 33 respectively. i suppose i could have saved more but i wouldn't trade our trips to greece or israel or italy for anything.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on May 16, 2017, 05:59:41 PM
i am curious.  at what point do you loosen up?  when you have $3M, will you be "ok" spending $ on going out to eat?  buying a nice bottle of wine? etc.?

i am new to this line of thinking.  i have always been a big saver but i had jobs that allowed me to spend as well.  i have approx. $1M of savings (my wife has an additional $500K) and we are only 37 and 33 respectively. i suppose i could have saved more but i wouldn't trade our trips to greece or israel or italy for anything.

So, that's something that most people have to answer for themselves.  I have not been a model Mustachian by any means.  I drive a Wrangler, I used to own a Racecar and a Cobra replica and then a Lotus Elise.  I've owned an E30 M3.  I go to lunch everyday at work (Subway).  Wife and I don't drink so we've likely saved lots of money there.  But we watch our money.  I do nearly all of our car repairs (my garage has a lift and just about any tool you could name......remember I had a racecar).  We're older parents (1st born when I was 40, second I was 44) so we still have one in college and one in high school.  I'm figuring that at 2.5M, I'm going to be "fine".  We believe in providing the best education we can for the kids so, yah....I make too much to get financial aid and the bill is $60k a year.  That's fine.  We won't go to Europe until the second is at least in college. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on May 16, 2017, 09:18:59 PM
We're going to Puerto Vallarta Saturday for a week of vacation.   I'm seriously thinking of expatriating in a few years.   Mexico is a possibility, but there are many possibilities. I'm working at least two more years to keep health care for my kids.  Will likely keep citizenship, just move residential status to Florida maybe.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on May 18, 2017, 01:23:42 AM
Dicey, if you don't mind my asking, how do you assign a value to your husband's defined benefit pension? My husband should get about $27K/year (flat,non-COLA'd, 50% joint survivor) starting in 13 years.

Well, you didn't ask me :-), but what I do is divide by .04, to figure how how much the "'stache-equivalent" amount is.  E.g., to take out $27K/yr at the 4% rule, I'd need $675K.  Now, that is the 'stache-equivalent in 13 years, when he is eligible for that $27K/yr.  So if you want the current value of that, you could present-value it back to today's dollars.  But personally, I don't care that much -- I just like to know that, hey, in 13 years, I will have the equivalent of $675K more in my 'stache. 

But actually, even that is bass-ackwards, because the whole point of the 'stache is to throw off income -- so when you already know the income, you don't even need to calculate an equivalent 'stache value.  So in your case, I'd just knock the $27K off of the annual income you need, and then figure out how much else you need to save to cover the delta.  E.g., I need $40K/yr, I have $27K/yr already guaranteed, so my delta is $13K/yr.  Ergo, 4% rule, I need $13K x 25 = $325K more in my 'stache in 13 years.

Laura33, I could hug you! Thank you for laying it all out so clearly for me. That's pretty awesome. And it reassures me that we probably did the right thing not taking a lump sum when it was offered a couple of years ago, since it was less than 1/3 of the equation you posted above. I realize we're rolling the dice on the annuity being what's promised. The pension is insured with PBGC, so he should get something.
More hugs for Laura33 then, because I have no idea. We don't count it that specifically. This may sound weird, but here's why. Our house and cars are paid for, we have three rental properties, we have a boatload of money in equities, a shit-ton of money in cash waiting for whatever we decide to do with it next, and DH is still working, so we're not tapping any of it yet. I've never run a Fire Calc or whatever it's called. I don't use YNAB or whatever the latest budgeting tool is. All we ever did was spend less than we earned and tried to invest the difference wisely. Now, however you slice it, we'll have enough. I mentioned on another thread today that DH's pension plus our SS estimates add up to more than we earn now. We're gonna be fine, so why spend too much time doing endless calculations?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on May 18, 2017, 11:36:13 AM
Dicey, if you don't mind my asking, how do you assign a value to your husband's defined benefit pension? My husband should get about $27K/year (flat,non-COLA'd, 50% joint survivor) starting in 13 years.

Well, you didn't ask me :-), but what I do is divide by .04, to figure how how much the "'stache-equivalent" amount is.  E.g., to take out $27K/yr at the 4% rule, I'd need $675K.  Now, that is the 'stache-equivalent in 13 years, when he is eligible for that $27K/yr.  So if you want the current value of that, you could present-value it back to today's dollars.  But personally, I don't care that much -- I just like to know that, hey, in 13 years, I will have the equivalent of $675K more in my 'stache. 

But actually, even that is bass-ackwards, because the whole point of the 'stache is to throw off income -- so when you already know the income, you don't even need to calculate an equivalent 'stache value.  So in your case, I'd just knock the $27K off of the annual income you need, and then figure out how much else you need to save to cover the delta.  E.g., I need $40K/yr, I have $27K/yr already guaranteed, so my delta is $13K/yr.  Ergo, 4% rule, I need $13K x 25 = $325K more in my 'stache in 13 years.

Laura33, I could hug you! Thank you for laying it all out so clearly for me. That's pretty awesome. And it reassures me that we probably did the right thing not taking a lump sum when it was offered a couple of years ago, since it was less than 1/3 of the equation you posted above. I realize we're rolling the dice on the annuity being what's promised. The pension is insured with PBGC, so he should get something.
More hugs for Laura33 then, because I have no idea. We don't count it that specifically. This may sound weird, but here's why. Our house and cars are paid for, we have three rental properties, we have a boatload of money in equities, a shit-ton of money in cash waiting for whatever we decide to do with it next, and DH is still working, so we're not tapping any of it yet. I've never run a Fire Calc or whatever it's called. I don't use YNAB or whatever the latest budgeting tool is. All we ever did was spend less than we earned and tried to invest the difference wisely. Now, however you slice it, we'll have enough. I mentioned on another thread today that DH's pension plus our SS estimates add up to more than we earn now. We're gonna be fine, so why spend too much time doing endless calculations?

Or..... why keep working?!!! :-)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on May 26, 2017, 10:40:17 PM
Oh, hey, Itchyfeet! I've covered it before, so sometimes I skip details so as not to sound like an ol' broken record.

DH works because:

1. His mom has Alzheimer's and she lives with us. He likes to stay busy, so being trapped here would drive him nuts!
(Yeah, FIRE doesn't look a bit like what I imagined right now, but for me, it still beats the hell out of working.)

2. He has 17 out of 20 years needed to hit the sweet spot for his Defined Benefit Pension. Why give that up?

3. He loves his job, has every other Friday off, gets every holiday paid, earns tons of vacation time and has months and months of accrued sick time accumulated. His office is 3.5 blocks from our house. On workdays, we get up early, I make his breakfast, pack his lunch while he eats, and we walk to work together at 5:45. Then I come home and go back to sleep :-)

4. Our current health care coverage has no premiums, no deductibles and tiny co-pays. At 20 years of service, we get $550/month for healthcare, AND we get to stay on the company's healthcare plan at the retiree rate. This is huge. I've had cancer and he obviously has Alzheimer's in the family tree, so to stay on the company's plan will save a boatload of money in healthcare costs for the rest of our lives.

It just wouldn't be frugal or even sensible to leave so much on the table.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on May 26, 2017, 11:41:21 PM
Hey Dicey. Sorry to make you cover old ground again.

You never know,  might do 3 more years myself. We are taking 6 month at a time....
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on May 28, 2017, 01:48:24 PM
Oh, hey, Itchyfeet! I've covered it before, so sometimes I skip details so as not to sound like an ol' broken record.

DH works because:

1. His mom has Alzheimer's and she lives with us. He likes to stay busy, so being trapped here would drive him nuts!
(Yeah, FIRE doesn't look a bit like what I imagined right now, but for me, it still beats the hell out of working.)

2. He has 17 out of 20 years needed to hit the sweet spot for his Defined Benefit Pension. Why give that up?

3. He loves his job, has every other Friday off, gets every holiday paid, earns tons of vacation time and has months and months of accrued sick time accumulated. His office is 3.5 blocks from our house. On workdays, we get up early, I make his breakfast, pack his lunch while he eats, and we walk to work together at 5:45. Then I come home and go back to sleep :-)

4. Our current health care coverage has no premiums, no deductibles and tiny co-pays. At 20 years of service, we get $550/month for healthcare, AND we get to stay on the company's healthcare plan at the retiree rate. This is huge. I've had cancer and he obviously has Alzheimer's in the family tree, so to stay on the company's plan will save a boatload of money in healthcare costs for the rest of our lives.

It just wouldn't be frugal or even sensible to leave so much on the table.

Pensions are a great reason to work a few more years, if you are lucky enough to have one.  People sometimes don't realize what an incredible asset a defined pension can be.  Too bad fewer and fewer people will have them as time goes on.



Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on May 29, 2017, 01:52:25 AM
You're right, farmecologist.

In his late thirties, DH realized he'd earned a lot of money as a painting contractor,  but didn't have much to show for it. He did his research and applied for his current position, specifically for the retirement benefits. He took a huge pay cut at first. To bridge the gap, he continued painting on the side, which is how we met in 2001. He was married to his high school sweetheart and they had two kids. Fast forward eleven years. I called him to paint my house again. He was a widower by then. We started talking. He painted my house. We kept talking and got married three months later. He doesn't do side jobs much these days, 'cause together we're FI. Instead of working for others on the side, we BRRR houses for fun.

As a bonus, his company is about as solid as they come, so the likelihood of collecting said pension is quite high. Wouldn't derail us if it wasn't all that was promised, but let's hope we never have to find out. We have charitable plans for our excess retirement income.

Hey Dicey. Sorry to make you cover old ground again.

You never know,  might do 3 more years myself. We are taking 6 month at a time....
Thank you, but no apology is necessary, Itchyfeet!

Six months at a time sounds like an excellent plan.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: markbike528CBX on June 09, 2017, 05:04:44 PM
Replying to sneak in by cheating (counting house equity for this purpose).
1.9M liquid (90% equities) and net house equity  ~0.3M.

I'm  hoping to be in honestly (liquid NW only) soon.

I'm now in the "race" fair and square (>$2M liquid), although I'm think I'll be stepping out of the race and let the gains to heavy lifting (they already are) soon.   Hope you all pass me by and wave on your way to $3M.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on June 09, 2017, 07:34:57 PM
Replying to sneak in by cheating (counting house equity for this purpose).
1.9M liquid (90% equities) and net house equity  ~0.3M.

I'm  hoping to be in honestly (liquid NW only) soon.

I'm now in the "race" fair and square (>$2M liquid), although I'm think I'll be stepping out of the race and let the gains to heavy lifting (they already are) soon.   Hope you all pass me by and wave on your way to $3M.

Just hop on and draft behind us.  Makes us faster too.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on June 12, 2017, 06:41:21 PM
Congrats on the new milestone!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on June 30, 2017, 07:41:05 AM
KABOOM!!!

Just tallied up my 30 June numbers and thanks to a weaker USD I have crossed the $2M USD of Net Worth.

Sweet 😁
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: markbike528CBX on June 30, 2017, 09:05:58 AM
I'm now in the "race" fair and square (>$2M liquid), although I'm think I'll be stepping out of the race and let the gains to heavy lifting (they already are) soon.   Hope you all pass me by and wave on your way to $3M.

Just hop on and draft behind us.  Makes us faster too.

I wouldn't have thought of that car racing analogy on a financial forum, but it makes sense.
Just reading the forum gives one lots of ideas to add speed to FIRE. Posting helps me think through my logic.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on June 30, 2017, 11:14:49 AM
I was thinking or bicycle racing when I wrote that but car racing works too.  Either way, a bunch of us moving along help each other by staying in a close pack.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on July 07, 2017, 02:08:33 AM
I'm so ready to post here with 2M liquid, NW I'm pretty legit.   Y'all are the cool kids!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Mr Griz on July 09, 2017, 07:46:22 PM
Just checked Personal Capital and it shows us at $2.25M, not including the mortgage-free house.

Sadly I didn't realize until recently that things were looking so good.  We've felt for several years that we were in good shape but never had an accounting of all our various IRA's, 401k's and cash accounts until recently.  I stumbled across jlcollinsnh a couple of months ago and that led to MMM and a more focused way of looking at finances.  DW retired a few years ago and I plan to bail this time next year.  (I have some deferred incentive compensation that will vest then).  In the meantime I'm consolidating everything into a couple of Vanguard accounts (one taxable, the other an IRA) and putting our excess cash to work.

The cool thing is that our two pensions should easily cover living expenses.  The 'stache should grow to $3M in a few years without any withdrawals.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on July 10, 2017, 01:22:14 AM
Contratulations Mr Griz. The world is now your playground :)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on July 16, 2017, 03:14:10 PM
I wasn't sure if I graduated to this group as our "liquid" includes $519k in pensions.. so assuming they are still there when we plan to start using them then liquid NW is $2.344M.

House (includes two rentals on the same property) I am guessing will net us $400k.. but it currently pays about $20k in rent so its hard to sell..:)

We are both RE'd now
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: SingleMomDebt on July 16, 2017, 05:27:14 PM
I wasn't sure if I graduated to this group as our "liquid" includes $519k in pensions.. so assuming they are still there when we plan to start using them then liquid NW is $2.344M.

House (includes two rentals on the same property) I am guessing will net us $400k.. but it currently pays about $20k in rent so its hard to sell..:)

We are both RE'd now

Congrats ExFB!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on July 16, 2017, 06:48:50 PM
I wasn't sure if I graduated to this group as our "liquid" includes $519k in pensions.. so assuming they are still there when we plan to start using them then liquid NW is $2.344M.

House (includes two rentals on the same property) I am guessing will net us $400k.. but it currently pays about $20k in rent so its hard to sell..:)

We are both RE'd now

Congrats ExFB!

Thanks Chip..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on July 21, 2017, 12:34:17 AM
Well done Exflyboy.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on August 02, 2017, 11:05:55 PM
This fantastic thread deserves to be at the top of the list.  Not near enough traffic here.  Bump.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on August 02, 2017, 11:30:01 PM
Haha Bateaux.

I think the issue is that this thread is almost the antithesis of MMM. If one is frugal why would you need more than $2M.

In any case, accumulating more than $2M either requires a lot of time or a very high income.

I would presume that most people who have accumulated more than $2M are already in there 50s, so not the core audience of MMM. Only a small percentage of MMM posters are doctors, lawyers, investment bankers, CEOs etc who could earn there way to $2M at a young age.

A few will have got very lucky with their finances (like me), by taking risks when young that paid off over the years.

I know that there are plenty of wealthy MMM posters, but most are FIRED and don't give a hoot about any race towards even greater wealth.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on August 03, 2017, 02:44:49 AM
Hmm we're FIRED yes.. in our 50's yes.. very high income, well did OK but averaged just over $100k.

We saved for 21 years and hit about $2.7m including the house.

Two hoots about making more? Heck I certainly want more.. but maybe I'm greedy :)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on August 03, 2017, 02:49:49 AM
Itchy feet I just read about your biking vacation.   Can't wait to do that.  Maybe we'll meet you guys in person out there soon.  My wife does her second Ironman next month.   All that training would be put to great use.  I'm 49 and have no plans to be working at 51.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on August 03, 2017, 03:31:46 AM
Hmm we're FIRED yes.. in our 50's yes.. very high income, well did OK but averaged just over $100k.

We saved for 21 years and hit about $2.7m including the house.

Two hoots about making more? Heck I certainly want more.. but maybe I'm greedy :)

Well done on amassing $2.7M. Obviously you are not too greedy having chosen FIRE over trying to race to $3.0M. I am sure in good time your $2.7M will grow beyond $3.0M even if it is financing your
Lives at the same time.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on August 03, 2017, 05:58:13 AM
Exflyboy I pretty much think that the 3 million number will come unless you do something to avoid it.  Most likely all of us who have breached 2 million NW will see 3 million at some point.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on August 03, 2017, 06:37:15 AM
Interested to see how this thread goes, but I'm on vacation right now...  Funny thing is, I'm 50k or more better off than when I started this trip, makes it tough to focus on being frugal!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: begood on August 03, 2017, 06:40:26 AM
Hmm we're FIRED yes.. in our 50's yes.. very high income, well did OK but averaged just over $100k.

We saved for 21 years and hit about $2.7m including the house.

Two hoots about making more? Heck I certainly want more.. but maybe I'm greedy :)

Well done on amassing $2.7M. Obviously you are not too greedy having chosen FIRE over trying to race to $3.0M. I am sure in good time your $2.7M will grow beyond $3.0M even if it is financing your
Lives at the same time.

We're in our early 50s, not FIREd (husband lives to work; only child still to edumacate through three years of high school and then college).

My husband's income didn't get above $100K until age 34, and then only for ten years. He started a second career for less than half the money but more than twice the personal satisfaction when he was 44. But we started off with some huge advantages: we married young (and stayed married); our parents paid for our college educations, so no student loans; our parents taught us the "save early and often" mantra AND gave us their old cars, so we started our adult lives without any debt at all. We never had to climb out of a hole.

And then we made four interstate moves with the company my husband worked for. He got raises with each new job, the relo packages were generous, and he banked his bonuses and ESOP. That all allowed us to make the choice twenty years later of moving out of corporate life to academic life without feeling like we would stunt our retirement or limit our daughter's education options.

We are nudging up against $2.5M this week.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Mr Griz on August 03, 2017, 07:04:36 AM
We didn't top $2M because it was a goal as such. It was the side effect of living below our means, avoiding debt, and having well-paying jobs that we liked. DW and I both have good defined benefit pensions that will easily cover our expenses when I retire next year. I expect the stache to be over $2.5M by then and it will just keep growing since we shouldn't need to tap into it. I recently reread MMM's post on giving away money. We're going to be looking at that soon I think.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on August 03, 2017, 07:48:15 AM
Congrats, EFB!

Your post reminded me that I don't count the value of DH's Defined Benefit Pension in our NW tally. Oh well, I'm not gonna start now, because that would kick me out of this thread, lol!.

In response to Itchyfeet, yes, we're in our fifties (me just barely, and on the wrong end), but we were never high wage earners. I hit $105k exactly once in my career and I was self-employed, so I paid a higher SS tax haircut. For reasons outlined upthread, DH still works. He earns about 80k a year and will probably work for 3 more years, to hit the max healthcare benefit.

We live in a HCOLA, so housing has always been disproportionately high, but owning RE is what made the biggest impact on our NW. Well, that and a dogged determination to RE dating back to my early twenties.

I also believe there are more "oldsters" around than you think. However, once FIRE hits and the shackles of work are removed, people take advantage of their freedom and fly away.

Regarding giving it away, per Mr Griz, I highly recommend it. DH and I joke that we tithe and then some to our community and we're having a blast doing it.
 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on August 03, 2017, 08:11:34 AM
I'm 60 and am an engineer.  Wife is a nurse.  She left work when our second son arrived.  I've made 6 figures since about 2000 but attribute our gains to the fact that I've always tried to either put off or not buy things.  I'm not above doing menial work and for years, while driving a racecar on weekends (I instructed so no track fees), I was picking up junk cars of the same make, usually for free for racecar spares.  I learned that I could sell the leftover parts between craigslist, racing sites and car marque sites and then the chassis got cut into pieces I could lift on my trailer and I'd go bring them for scrap money.  Anyways, I've always tried to live way below my means and that's my story.  Never had a title above Principal Engineer. 

We're not retired yet with one son in college (we're paying full boat at an expensive private college) and another with some learning issues who may cost us some significant money.  Once the older one graduates and has a job, I'll consider if I'll quit.  The wife would probably go back to work full time then to get the health insurance.  So I won't really retire early....I'll retire on time.  But I was 43 when our second son came, so we are very late with getting the kids set.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on August 03, 2017, 09:10:46 PM
You guys truly are incredible.   Thanks for the motivation. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: bigchrisb on August 03, 2017, 09:20:22 PM
I'm a little younger, 35, wife 37.  I'm an engineer (a theme?), wife a diplomat.  Fortunate to have higher than average incomes, a high savings rate and to have had a fairly aggressive investment strategy through boom markets. 

However, its a pretty simple formula, spend a lot less than you earn, invest the difference, keep at it for years.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on September 02, 2017, 09:51:19 AM
So our NW assuming our house is worth $400k (its a hobby farm with few comps so very hard to estimate) is now $2.766M.

Looking back at this thread I see the NW has grown by $22k since mid July.. or about 2k per week!

This includes the fact we have been in Europe for most of it and of course we're not working.

It seems sort of surreal seeing those number and causes me to think back to 2003 when we had just paid the house off and had very little other savings. My projections at that time showed a NW just North of a million bucks in about 10 years and I had a hard time believing that would really happen.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on September 02, 2017, 10:58:27 AM
Awesome work!

August was a month with zero growth for us, despite working and despite saving around 50% of our pay cheque. Still, 2017 has been good thus far.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: soccerluvof4 on September 03, 2017, 04:59:02 AM
I'm in the "race" from 2M to 3M slightly over half way not including a paid for house or any other assets.  I am going on 2.5 years Fire'd am 52 and MY DW is 48. Just about a year ago because of the Healthcare Scare with 4 kids she took a job with great benefits offset by not the greatest pay.  The big thing is for us is we save every dime she does make or use it specifically on home improvements as we have been redoing the 1970's raised ranch we bought when we downsized.  We have 4 kids one first year of college far out of state and another one leaving in January. Despite scholarships and 529s saved all our kids play select sports which are not cheap so trying to get our number to grow has been challenging but we have been doing it even after my withdrawals to live on. After this year I feel we should see a significant living cost drop so hopefully unless the market tanks and or? we will be there sooner than later. For me its more about the challenge than the need of money as well as preservation. I always am looking for ways to save but also reward ourselves with trips etc..
My DW liked being Fire'd and home with me but she loves her new job and the hours don't interfere. As many said when your going to work knowing you dont need the money its alot easier. Also we save more because though she is not a big spender I love the challenge more to save so I have find alot more way to do so by doing all the shopping and cooking as well as other things. Good luck to all the 3M chasers.  Like someone else mentioned I too would like to be in real-estate and investments but just never seem to find anything that makes sense but I keep looking.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on September 05, 2017, 02:29:50 AM
I feel inadequate in this thread, since I have to throw in personal real estate to belong.  Glad you're all here, gives me a target to aim for.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on September 05, 2017, 07:21:17 AM
I feel inadequate in this thread, since I have to through in personal real estate to belong.  Glad you're all here, gives me a target to aim for.
Don't feel that way, Bateaux! Zillow says my house is worth $1.3M and it's paid for. I count it. What I don't count is the value of DH's Defined Benefit Pension or our rental equity. Meh. There's so much in the pot that our income in retirement is going to exceed what we live on now, which is DH's salary. He has three years to go and I pulled the trigger nearly five years ago.

This makes me question the wisdom of filling tax-deferred accounts over taxable all these years. In some ways it seems like it might have been better to pay the taxes up front. FWP,  I know.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on September 05, 2017, 08:37:55 AM
Dicey,

This is definitely in the "good problem to have category".. You took the option to reduce your tax back then, which meant you could save more money.. yes?.. This also meant your stash grew faster.

So now you have arrived and have more money than you will ever need (yes I'm trying hard to believe this too.. But $5m would be extra safe..:)..)... Now you are faced with extra taxes and probably RMD's in retirement...So.. who cares.. You the man more tax.

I would argue the fact you got to FI sooner and now have a bigger pot which far outweigh the sadness of writing a check for extra taxes.

Yes I will be in this boat too.

Besides, your house is worth $1.3M.. well, when your ready you can sell it.. move to a tiny hovel like mine on nearly 6 acres and have almost a million tax free to spend on a huge party.

I think you have done great..:)

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on September 05, 2017, 09:22:08 PM
Don't mind me.  Still in my 40's and I'm being all winey pants about 2 million NW.  Facepunch, double facepunch.  It's all good. 

Actually had to meditate about buying a new leaf blower a few days ago.   It was  $150 at Lowes $165 with tax, found it for $125 at Amazon with no tax or shipping.  WTF!  I'm a dang millionaire, hell technically a multimillionaire on the lowest rung.  I'm debating a leaf blower purchase.   You people have ruined my life.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on September 05, 2017, 11:40:48 PM
Don't mind me.  Still in my 40's and I'm being all winey pants about 2 million NW.  Facepunch, double facepunch.  It's all good. 

Actually had to meditate about buying a new leaf blower a few days ago.   It was  $150 at Lowes $165 with tax, found it for $125 at Amazon with no tax or shipping.  WTF!  I'm a dang millionaire, hell technically a multimillionaire on the lowest rung.  I'm debating a leaf blower purchase.   You people have ruined my life.

Same here.. I'm trying to talk myself into buying a new+ bigger refrigerator.. The old one is 20 years old.. too small, doesn't match the rest of the kitchen appliances and the shelves have mostly collapsed!.. My NW is only $2.7M, WTF am I thinking.. I'll go broke if I keep throwing money around like this..:)

Or as was pointed out on my Journal ..."doesn't it feel weird to spend 3X as much on a fridge as you did your car?"...:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on September 06, 2017, 01:25:42 AM
Oh, but a new fridge will be so much more energy efficient,  it will pay for itself in no time!

Bateaux, you crack me up!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on September 06, 2017, 01:59:31 AM
Oh, but a new fridge will be so much more energy efficient,  it will pay for itself in no time!

Bateaux, you crack me up!

I did buy a new fridge.  Last one is 25 years old.  Still works, it's still in use in storage room.  Keep beer, water, etc in it.  Ice maker died years ago.   DW wanted fancy ice, water side by side.   Ice without trays is dang nice.  Since I've totally rebuilt and doubled the size of the kitchen everything is new.  Dish washer matches fridge.  Used it once.  Did all my own work.  I did buy the unfinished cabinets, prebuilt.   Still a work in progress.  I have about 19 offers for me to do a tavertine backslash like mine.  No way in hell.  That shit is a PITA!  MMM I'm not when it comes to carpentry, plumbing, electrical, floors.  I do mine but no way I'm hiring myself out.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on September 06, 2017, 07:12:12 AM
Don't mind me.  Still in my 40's and I'm being all winey pants about 2 million NW.  Facepunch, double facepunch.  It's all good. 

Actually had to meditate about buying a new leaf blower a few days ago.   It was  $150 at Lowes $165 with tax, found it for $125 at Amazon with no tax or shipping.  WTF!  I'm a dang millionaire, hell technically a multimillionaire on the lowest rung.  I'm debating a leaf blower purchase.   You people have ruined my life.

I also agonize over purchases like that.  However, I'm convinced that this frugal behavior is what got many of us where we are. 

I see so many people these days 'living it up' with all the 'toys'.  These are people who I'll pretty much guarantee can't afford it ( or have misguided priorities ).  Back before the crash of '08-'09 I saw exactly the same behavior.  People never learn!   

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on September 06, 2017, 10:00:08 AM
Absolutely its what got us to where we are.

I would have passed the "marshmellow test" and been asking if resisted even longer could I get extra marshmellows.. then sold the marshmellows to my friends for cash!

I like my pile of ever increasing marshmellows..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: markbike528CBX on September 06, 2017, 11:48:40 AM
........I also agonize over purchases like that.  However, I'm convinced that this frugal behavior is what got many of us where we are. snip..... 

I don't think of it as being frugal.   I think of it as being more efficient at our retail therapy.   

We get so much more mileage/time over agonizing than the impulsive buyer does.  It took me over two weeks to by some shorts on ebay.  Impulse buyer would have gotten 30seconds on the buy, and another 30 seconds unwrapping the package.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on September 06, 2017, 01:46:58 PM
Don't mind me.  Still in my 40's and I'm being all winey pants about 2 million NW.  Facepunch, double facepunch.  It's all good. 

Actually had to meditate about buying a new leaf blower a few days ago.   It was  $150 at Lowes $165 with tax, found it for $125 at Amazon with no tax or shipping.  WTF!  I'm a dang millionaire, hell technically a multimillionaire on the lowest rung.  I'm debating a leaf blower purchase.   You people have ruined my life.

I also agonize over purchases like that.  However, I'm convinced that this frugal behavior is what got many of us where we are. 

I see so many people these days 'living it up' with all the 'toys'.  These are people who I'll pretty much guarantee can't afford it ( or have misguided priorities ).  Back before the crash of '08-'09 I saw exactly the same behavior.  People never learn!

Well, I know it's not Mustachian, but when I started this journey the whole idea was to delay gratification, but ultimately gratify myself a little.  Now that I'm so far beyond my wildest dreams, I am letting myself enjoy the 'stache a whole lot more.  I even bought one of those 'robo-vacs' during Primeday ($185).  My wife was beside herself when I announced it (she similarly questioned my mental state when I gave her an Apple laptop after years of being anti-Apple) and we use it every day to keep up with the dog and cat fur.

In the whole scheme of things, bringing a little extra joy and life to our household is worth what now amounts to pocket change.  With that said, the bigger issue is reigning in complexity and clutter.  I still evaluate purchases based on if they will 'carry their weight' in terms of taking up space and time in my life.  This one worked out well but we bought a 'fancy refrigerator' (Exflyboy take note) that has most certainly not panned out, maybe just because it was a lemon.  Should've just bought a simple one that did it's main job well though...

Sadly, I've had to stay out of the 'Has the Forum Gone Soft (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/weird-fourm-coversations-has-the-community-gone-soft/msg1664204/#msg1664204)' thread :)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on September 08, 2017, 09:18:31 AM
I'd like some tips on how an apple laptop helps with dog and cat fur.  We have 2 semi-longhair (aka shedding) cats and a 10 year old powerbook.

Kidding, of course.  With the robovac, if it's the name brand, I've worked with the designers for years.  The thing they have not solved and you should be careful about is landmines from the dog.  The unit doesn't know how to handle it so it tends to pick some of it up and spread it all around the room, then come get some more and spread it around the room.

I have the same angst about buying stuff and have on many occasions looked at something and gone home to sleep on it, never to return to buy whatever it was.  Can't even think about how much I've saved vs just buying the thing.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on September 08, 2017, 09:29:59 AM
I've gone to the big box stores and sporting goods stores many times filling a cart with items.  I had a thousand dollars worth of reloading equipment mentally bought.  Pushed it round and round the giant Cabelas store.  Then put it back on the shelf.  Sometimes I don't even have to be in the store.  Academy sports just had an incredible deal on an AR15 rifle.  The best price I'd ever seen and it was 2nd Amendment tax free weekend here in Louisiana.   I carried that ad around for days.  Mentally I was in full possession of that rifle.  The ad expired, I tossed it in the trash and the cash, not the rifle is in my safe.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on September 08, 2017, 02:29:46 PM
Thanks for the tip CJ, my wife is home and only runs the vac while she's there, so we should be OK.  She quite enjoys Robbie's company as he roams around.

I spent years squeezing pennies so I'm not suddenly out blowing wads of cash, but I am loosening up.  Life is just getting too short for me to keep stressing out over some of these things (as well as stressing the marriage), especially since a little sharpening of the pencil around tax time, moving investments to lower fee versions of the same thing, nailing my FSA amounts, maintaining good health, etc. are the areas where the real money is being won and lost these days...  Even with that said, we have gone pretty far down the list of "priority purchases", so we are back in a mode of over 50% savings rate.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: wannabe-stache on September 15, 2017, 08:34:01 AM
Don't mind me.  Still in my 40's and I'm being all winey pants about 2 million NW.  Facepunch, double facepunch.  It's all good. 

Actually had to meditate about buying a new leaf blower a few days ago.   It was  $150 at Lowes $165 with tax, found it for $125 at Amazon with no tax or shipping.  WTF!  I'm a dang millionaire, hell technically a multimillionaire on the lowest rung.  I'm debating a leaf blower purchase.   You people have ruined my life.

This is exactly what I am dealing with.  We are in Miami and post-Irma (and post-telling my landscaper he wasn't needed anymore), i realized i really need a rake and a leaf blower.  so i went online to find used items.  i didn't find MMM until 4 months ago, otherwise i would have trotted over to home depot and bought brand new stuff without even thinking about it.

with that, i am jumping into this thread.  DW and i are 34 and 37 respectively and due to high incomes and, despite our below average savings rates, we have $1.6M invested and $2.3M with the home equity.  if i had found MMM 3 years ago i have no doubt we would have way more than $1.6M invested...
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: savedough on September 15, 2017, 12:34:44 PM
Disclaimer: I don't belong in this thread at all.

EXCEPT - I feel that I am many of you 20 years ago, plugging along as an engineer barely making 6 figures, agonizing over purchases, banking my savings in tax-advantaged accounts and accumulating years for a pension.  We are thisclose to $1M net worth and I am 35 (for another two months) counting our home equity which isn't much since we live in a decently priced home.

This makes me happy to see that if my husband and I stay the course, we will make it. 

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: begood on September 15, 2017, 12:38:05 PM
I'm having a little mini freakout today, friends. I check our cash flow monthly but our investments only quarterly. Today's the day. Our investments (taxable + rollover IRA) are up $172K in 2017. One hundred and seventy-two THOUSAND dollars. In nine months.

The extended bull market is clearly driving that growth, and I am alllllll too aware that it can and will drop at some point, possibly soon! October seems like a common drop month. But is this how compounding works? The more $$, the faster the growth? Even though it suffers the vagaries of the market? If so, how stupid am I not to have understood that before?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: mm1970 on September 15, 2017, 02:31:48 PM
Haha Bateaux.

I think the issue is that this thread is almost the antithesis of MMM. If one is frugal why would you need more than $2M.

In any case, accumulating more than $2M either requires a lot of time or a very high income.

I would presume that most people who have accumulated more than $2M are already in there 50s, so not the core audience of MMM. Only a small percentage of MMM posters are doctors, lawyers, investment bankers, CEOs etc who could earn there way to $2M at a young age.

A few will have got very lucky with their finances (like me), by taking risks when young that paid off over the years.

I know that there are plenty of wealthy MMM posters, but most are FIRED and don't give a hoot about any race towards even greater wealth.

Eh...We are engineers.  So, high income but not very high income.  Frugal.  HCOL area.
Not in our 50s yet.  Close.  Prob hit $2M a couple of years ago.
Two kids in elementary school.

I figured that we would prob be typical of people on this thread, no?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on September 15, 2017, 03:04:29 PM
Haha Bateaux.

I think the issue is that this thread is almost the antithesis of MMM. If one is frugal why would you need more than $2M.

In any case, accumulating more than $2M either requires a lot of time or a very high income.

I would presume that most people who have accumulated more than $2M are already in there 50s, so not the core audience of MMM. Only a small percentage of MMM posters are doctors, lawyers, investment bankers, CEOs etc who could earn there way to $2M at a young age.

A few will have got very lucky with their finances (like me), by taking risks when young that paid off over the years.

I know that there are plenty of wealthy MMM posters, but most are FIRED and don't give a hoot about any race towards even greater wealth.

Eh...We are engineers.  So, high income but not very high income.  Frugal.  HCOL area.
Not in our 50s yet.  Close.  Prob hit $2M a couple of years ago.
Two kids in elementary school.

I figured that we would prob be typical of people on this thread, no?

Yep...no doctors, etc...here either.   Not in our 50s yet either.  Two kids - one started college this year and one is in high school.
 
The definition of 'high income' can be very subjective..and vastly different depending on where you live ( HCOL vs LCOL, etc.. ).  Having kids ( and number of kids ) can also have a huge impact on the capability to save.

I think 'frugal but not minimalist, and being persistent' is the common thread here.   We have been saving slow and steady for 20+ years.  We don't buy many expensive 'toys' like boats, campers, expensive cars, cabins, and all that other crap.  It still boggles my mind to see how many people buy these 'toys' and clearly cannot afford them.  I think many people seem to think they are entitled to the 'stuff' and it often seems to get them into financial trouble.  I really love it when people complain about not having nearly enough to retire....while driving around fancy vehicles and such. 

BTW - I added 'cabins' above because quite a few people in my neck of the woods have them...and *always* seem to complain about how expensive they are to maintain.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: honeybbq on September 15, 2017, 04:39:39 PM
Itchy feet I just read about your biking vacation.   Can't wait to do that.  Maybe we'll meet you guys in person out there soon.  My wife does her second Ironman next month.   All that training would be put to great use.  I'm 49 and have no plans to be working at 51.

I've done a couple halves. Some day I will do my full. Thank you  (From me) for supporting your wife! Spouses make all the difference in the tri-journey. :)

I feel inadequate in this thread, since I have to throw in personal real estate to belong.  Glad you're all here, gives me a target to aim for.

I belong if I count my house equity.

I just turned 40. Medical fields. High earner that tries not to spend too much.

Waiting for that 3 to become  4.....
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on September 15, 2017, 10:06:25 PM

Eh...We are engineers.  So, high income but not very high income.  Frugal.  HCOL area.
Not in our 50s yet.  Close.  Prob hit $2M a couple of years ago.
Two kids in elementary school.

I figured that we would prob be typical of people on this thread, no?

Yep, 40 & 45 here. Accountant and school teacher.

It took me about 20 years of working (DW 14 years)  to accumulate the first million, and only about 4 years for the 2nd.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on September 16, 2017, 07:41:43 PM
Itchy feet I just read about your biking vacation.   Can't wait to do that.  Maybe we'll meet you guys in person out there soon.  My wife does her second Ironman next month.   All that training would be put to great use.  I'm 49 and have no plans to be working at 51.

I've done a couple halves. Some day I will do my full. Thank you  (From me) for supporting your wife! Spouses make all the difference in the tri-journey. :)

I feel inadequate in this thread, since I have to throw in personal real estate to belong.  Glad you're all here, gives me a target to aim for.

I belong if I count my house equity.

I just turned 40. Medical fields. High earner that tries not to spend too much.

Waiting for that 3 to become  4.....

I'm debating traing for a 1/2 Ironman next Spring.  My wife runs her 2nd full in Chattanooga next weekend.  Good luck with your events.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on September 16, 2017, 09:01:05 PM
I really need to find something to train for...... and people to train with. I am hopeless left to my own devices. Full of excuses
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on September 17, 2017, 08:14:38 AM
The 1/2 Ironman I'm considering is going to be held in Puerto Rico.  They are under the gun of Hurricane Maria which may hit them with 120 mph winds.   
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Secretly Saving on September 17, 2017, 09:15:37 AM
Haha Bateaux.

I think the issue is that this thread is almost the antithesis of MMM. If one is frugal why would you need more than $2M.

In any case, accumulating more than $2M either requires a lot of time or a very high income.

I would presume that most people who have accumulated more than $2M are already in there 50s, so not the core audience of MMM. Only a small percentage of MMM posters are doctors, lawyers, investment bankers, CEOs etc who could earn there way to $2M at a young age.

A few will have got very lucky with their finances (like me), by taking risks when young that paid off over the years.

I know that there are plenty of wealthy MMM posters, but most are FIRED and don't give a hoot about any race towards even greater wealth.

Eh...We are engineers.  So, high income but not very high income.  Frugal.  HCOL area.
Not in our 50s yet.  Close.  Prob hit $2M a couple of years ago.
Two kids in elementary school.

I figured that we would prob be typical of people on this thread, no?

Yep.
Engineer and teacher.
30s
Kids in elem school.
2m+ invested plus Real Estate
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: OthalaFehu on September 17, 2017, 10:03:11 AM
Just crested 2M in assets but have 440k in liabilities dragging me back down. I am 43, so will keep plugging away. Zero to 1 was way harder than 1 to 2. I keep data and charts on all aspects of my financial picture. It became so much of a hobby, I started sharing it all with the public. Viva the FIRE Revolution!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on September 17, 2017, 11:50:29 AM
If the bull keeps running (big IF) we will need a $3M to $4M thread soon..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: bigchrisb on September 17, 2017, 02:59:13 PM
Haha Bateaux.

I think the issue is that this thread is almost the antithesis of MMM. If one is frugal why would you need more than $2M.

In any case, accumulating more than $2M either requires a lot of time or a very high income.

I would presume that most people who have accumulated more than $2M are already in there 50s, so not the core audience of MMM. Only a small percentage of MMM posters are doctors, lawyers, investment bankers, CEOs etc who could earn there way to $2M at a young age.

A few will have got very lucky with their finances (like me), by taking risks when young that paid off over the years.

I know that there are plenty of wealthy MMM posters, but most are FIRED and don't give a hoot about any race towards even greater wealth.

Eh...We are engineers.  So, high income but not very high income.  Frugal.  HCOL area.
Not in our 50s yet.  Close.  Prob hit $2M a couple of years ago.
Two kids in elementary school.

I figured that we would prob be typical of people on this thread, no?

Yep.
Engineer and teacher.
30s
Kids in elem school.
2m+ invested plus Real Estate

35 Engineer here. Self made through investment, both listed stocks and private businesses (invested in and grew my former employer before selling the company).  My wife is a public servant, but we have not combined finances.  If we had, we would be in the race to 4m. 

Mostly invested in stocks with a bit of leverage.  The first million took 7 years, the second 3.5, and the next 900k was under a year.  I always knew the theory that it would turn exponential, but I'm still a bit disbelieving of the reality.   
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on September 17, 2017, 08:29:20 PM
900K in 1 year. Wowsers!!!

2017 started off super strong for me, but has faded. I think my stash growth this year will be less than 2015 and 2016.

I too have got to here rolling the dice on a bit of leverage. I just figured worst case was that I pay back the loan over an extended period. Best case the inclvestment returns beat the cost of debt and I get a bit of a leg up. I got a bit lucky, although that is only a part of the story.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: honeybbq on September 18, 2017, 12:48:29 PM
The 1/2 Ironman I'm considering is going to be held in Puerto Rico.  They are under the gun of Hurricane Maria which may hit them with 120 mph winds.

Why that particular half? It does sound fun to travel. My tri group is all doing Costa Rica this Nov. (it's a full though)

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: honeybbq on September 18, 2017, 12:49:02 PM
I really need to find something to train for...... and people to train with. I am hopeless left to my own devices. Full of excuses

Do you have a tri group?

I've found the best way to get my ass in gear is to sign up for a race! :)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on September 19, 2017, 02:20:24 PM
Itchyfeet - HoneyBBQ we're clogging up the thread with all the nice things we can do once were into the 7 figures 😁   
Anyway, probably going to wait for the 2019 Puerto Rico Ironman unless Maria spares them somehow.  We could do another location.  Have fun.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: JoJoP on October 13, 2017, 10:17:32 PM
Don't mind me.  Still in my 40's and I'm being all winey pants about 2 million NW.  Facepunch, double facepunch.  It's all good. 

Actually had to meditate about buying a new leaf blower a few days ago.   It was  $150 at Lowes $165 with tax, found it for $125 at Amazon with no tax or shipping.  WTF!  I'm a dang millionaire, hell technically a multimillionaire on the lowest rung.  I'm debating a leaf blower purchase.   You people have ruined my life.

Your post gave me a chuckle!   I hope you got the Amazon one.

Yes, we're among the older folks in the MMM family, but frugal living and careful planning is what got us here, right?  We're past the 3M mark, mostly with our multiple, nearly paid-for, rentals.   There are lots of us "oldies" who find kindred spirits here at MMM, even though we may have overbuilt the empire or worked for longer than you younger people intend to.   To be frugal and build a good future was the plan.  I'm proud of it, because it wasn't easy.  No silver spoons here...  My mom and I were laughing earlier today about the time when I was so poor that there was no toilet paper. 

My old joke is that you can either be rich or look rich, but it takes an awful lot of money to do both.  It's the Millionaire Next Door idea.   Now I'm the millionaire next door. Me... a multimillionaire!  Wow!   As I sit here in my thrift store outfit, sifting through rental apps on a rental that I'll be getting $500 more a month on since the last folks moved out.  The rent was low, and is still on the low end in our HCOL area.   That's a $6000 a year raise, this year and forever after,  and I didn't have to do a thing.  My plan is to snowball my way to paying off the last couple of mortgage loans on the rentals.  I should have the last 3 paid off within 3-4 years.  Life is fine!   
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on October 14, 2017, 03:16:34 AM
There are many technical types here.  They keeps spread sheets on how many rolls of toilet paper and tubes of toothpaste they use a month.  They calculate Alpha, Beta and several other Greek letters representing strategies I haven't a clue about.  We spent less than we earned and invested the rest.  More of the JL Collins, "A simple Path to Wealth" approach.  Personally I love the Mint app.  It tells me what I'm worth almost instantly.  Even reminds me when I spend.  It just told me that I wrote a $4200 check.  Told me I don't usually spend that much, what's up?  Deposit for the new roof on the house Mint, it's all good.
Like many of us here, we'd already achieved a million or more in NW before finding the MMM blog.  I've learned so much since coming here however.   Those technical types, glad they share their knowledge.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Mr Griz on October 14, 2017, 05:42:42 AM
Weíre about 6 months from FIRE and Iíve been simplifying our various investment and bank accounts. Each one tells a story and itís been interesting to relive all the financial blunders weíve made over the years. Despite all, the stache is well above $2M. Itís truly been as straightforward as JL Collins & Mr. MM describe it.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: bigchrisb on October 17, 2017, 02:13:02 AM


35 Engineer here. Self made through investment, both listed stocks and private businesses (invested in and grew my former employer before selling the company).  My wife is a public servant, but we have not combined finances.  If we had, we would be in the race to 4m. 

Mostly invested in stocks with a bit of leverage.  The first million took 7 years, the second 3.5, and the next 900k was under a year.  I always knew the theory that it would turn exponential, but I'm still a bit disbelieving of the reality.

So, this month I started a trial fire with 2.9m. 10 days post job and the rallying markets have done enough to bump me over the $3m Mark.  Aside from staying the investment course, it was all down to what the market did. 

Being in a draw down phase for at least a couple of years I expect the accumulation pace to slow down now.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on October 17, 2017, 07:17:54 AM
35 Engineer here. Self made through investment, both listed stocks and private businesses (invested in and grew my former employer before selling the company).  My wife is a public servant, but we have not combined finances.  If we had, we would be in the race to 4m. 

Mostly invested in stocks with a bit of leverage.  The first million took 7 years, the second 3.5, and the next 900k was under a year.  I always knew the theory that it would turn exponential, but I'm still a bit disbelieving of the reality.
So, this month I started a trial fire with 2.9m. 10 days post job and the rallying markets have done enough to bump me over the $3m Mark.  Aside from staying the investment course, it was all down to what the market did. 

Being in a draw down phase for at least a couple of years I expect the accumulation pace to slow down now.
Congratulations, bigchrisb!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on October 17, 2017, 09:57:50 AM
^^^^ Excellent^^^^^
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on October 17, 2017, 10:42:02 PM
Is there a race from $3M to $4M thread?  If not, maybe bigchrisb can start it! 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: JoJoP on October 21, 2017, 09:46:07 PM
Maybe a thread title change: "Race from $2M and beyond..."
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on October 22, 2017, 07:36:56 AM
Hehe.. this is starting to sound like one of those philosophical discussions.. Like "How much is too much?"...:)

Or even "how much is enough?"

My "number" is $5m.. or roughly double what I have now..;)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on October 22, 2017, 10:04:52 AM
I would never say $5 million USD is too much.

DW and I could certainly find a way to spend it.

But for us, the tipping point at which the extra spending power isn't worth the extra days spent in an office falls short of $5M.

About half of that number will do for us 2.5M USD= ~ 3.3M AUD. yep enough 👍 .

Maybe I will have some kind of encore career that will see us get us a little closer to $5M. who knows.

(I am talking today's $ above. I am sure one day my stash will be $5million, but it will be worth half as much as $5m today.)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: mjr on October 22, 2017, 05:13:51 PM
Ticked over $2m ex-PPOR today.  I think my race has been run, I don't see how I can possibly stay working until the $3m mark, but at least I can join this race in a casual saunter.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: concealed stache on October 22, 2017, 07:28:18 PM
Ticked over $2m ex-PPOR today.  I think my race has been run, I don't see how I can possibly stay working until the $3m mark, but at least I can join this race in a casual saunter.

I find myself in the same boat - although I don't run complete numbers during the month, it's quite clear that I've rolled over into 2.x territory this month - of course that could all change by month end. Given that I've handed in my notice I expect to be riding the local train for the next gains instead of the express it's been of late.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on October 22, 2017, 09:28:43 PM
Ticked over $2m ex-PPOR today.  I think my race has been run, I don't see how I can possibly stay working until the $3m mark, but at least I can join this race in a casual saunter.

The $2.5m I am talking about above is really $1.8M plus PPOR.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on October 22, 2017, 09:47:30 PM
Ticked over $2m ex-PPOR today.  I think my race has been run, I don't see how I can possibly stay working until the $3m mark, but at least I can join this race in a casual saunter.

The $2.5m I am talking about above is really $1.8M plus PPOR.
Principal Place of Residence? Possible Place of Refuge? Perinatal Periods of Risk?

Are your numbers in USD or AUS?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: mjr on October 23, 2017, 12:18:03 AM
Aussie dollars, of course.  We can't spend US dollars here :-)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on October 23, 2017, 07:55:29 AM
Haha. I'll happily spend some more USD in your part of the world if ever I get the chance to return. But seriously, what the hell is PPOR?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on October 23, 2017, 08:00:10 AM
Principal Place of Residence?  Potential Prodigious Onset of Revenue? 

And 2M AUS is 'merely' 1.56M USD, you've not even made it to the starting line :)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on October 23, 2017, 12:27:51 PM
Yes, PPOR is an Australian taxation acronym for the house you live in, and get a capital gains tax exemption for. Principal Place of Residence. Should just call it home like everyone else I suppose.

I didn't join this thread till I passed $2M USD, which occurred several months back when the USD dropped v the AUD.

With the USD slowly regaining ground there is a small risk I could drop below $2M USD once more.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: wannabe-stache on October 31, 2017, 02:35:49 PM
Ticked over $2m ex-PPOR today.  I think my race has been run, I don't see how I can possibly stay working until the $3m mark, but at least I can join this race in a casual saunter.

The $2.5m I am talking about above is really $1.8M plus PPOR.

Same here. $2.65M with home equity. so close...

edited to add that i am sitting in my office wearing loafers i bought at a thrift store, ate lunch at my desk and took the train to work today. what a nice day.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on October 31, 2017, 11:22:33 PM
Ticked over $2m ex-PPOR today.  I think my race has been run, I don't see how I can possibly stay working until the $3m mark, but at least I can join this race in a casual saunter.

The $2.5m I am talking about above is really $1.8M plus PPOR.

Same here. $2.65M with home equity. so close...

edited to add that i am sitting in my office wearing loafers i bought at a thrift store, ate lunch at my desk and took the train to work today. what a nice day.

Not trying to make waves, but since I'm doing well on NW already, just being at work seems to give me the liberty to buy a fresh $5 salad most days (when I have to buy for myself - most times I have lunch meetings) and splurge a little on good shoes (https://www.olukai.com/mens/shoes.html). 

To each their own, but none of these things seems to move the needle much for me either way, other than knowing I am eating healthier and taking good care of my gait.  Low stress job, so I'm OK with working as long as they'll have me.  And it looks like I'll get some plum international travel in 2018...
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: wannabe-stache on November 01, 2017, 07:16:10 AM

[/quote]

Same here. $2.65M with home equity. so close...

edited to add that i am sitting in my office wearing loafers i bought at a thrift store, ate lunch at my desk and took the train to work today. what a nice day.
[/quote]

Not trying to make waves, but since I'm doing well on NW already, just being at work seems to give me the liberty to buy a fresh $5 salad most days (when I have to buy for myself - most times I have lunch meetings) and splurge a little on good shoes (https://www.olukai.com/mens/shoes.html). 

To each their own, but none of these things seems to move the needle much for me either way, other than knowing I am eating healthier and taking good care of my gait.  Low stress job, so I'm OK with working as long as they'll have me.  And it looks like I'll get some plum international travel in 2018...
[/quote]

No worries, like you i tend not to begrudge others' choices. i buy a diet coke every day for lunch and my wife and i still occasionally treat ourselves to good wine from our napa valley wineries.  that's the refreshing part of this particular thread, it's less dogmatic than most.

what MMM and others have opened my eyes to was seeing value in purchases. i didn't really value my BMW, or cable TV, or my landscaper, so i cut them out. but you can take my pinot or my diet coke from my cold, dead hands.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on November 01, 2017, 10:37:41 AM
Ah, you guys should loosen up and live a little!  (I say, then realize I'm wearing sneakers that one of my kids got sick of and pants inherited from my dad)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on November 01, 2017, 11:48:15 AM
Ticked over $2m ex-PPOR today.  I think my race has been run, I don't see how I can possibly stay working until the $3m mark, but at least I can join this race in a casual saunter.

The $2.5m I am talking about above is really $1.8M plus PPOR.

Same here. $2.65M with home equity. so close...

edited to add that i am sitting in my office wearing loafers i bought at a thrift store, ate lunch at my desk and took the train to work today. what a nice day.
HeHe, just wait until you're FIRE.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: honeyfill on November 01, 2017, 10:06:46 PM
Sitting at 2.35M here. 2.5 with home equity.  We are 60/58 and retiring some time in the next 10 months so its highly unlikely we reach 3m, but its fun to track it and to watch others go for the big 3.0. We 've hit our number and built u a couple of years of cash reserves so we really don't need any more.  Dropped savings to just hit the max match on the 401k.  Now just paying down some debt, and building up a cash reserve to pay for a kitchen remodel and a semi-luxury retirement celebration vacation in France. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on November 01, 2017, 11:05:09 PM
Very nice..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on November 02, 2017, 12:07:50 AM
Sitting at 2.35M here. 2.5 with home equity.  We are 60/58 and retiring some time in the next 10 months so its highly unlikely we reach 3m, but its fun to track it and to watch others go for the big 3.0. We 've hit our number and built u a couple of years of cash reserves so we really don't need any more.  Dropped savings to just hit the max match on the 401k.  Now just paying down some debt, and building up a cash reserve to pay for a kitchen remodel and a semi-luxury retirement celebration vacation in France.
Okay, I admit it, I am confused. You have only 150k in home equity and you're paying down "some debt". You have 2.5M, but you're waiting up to ten more months to retire? Something's  missing here. More info please?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on November 02, 2017, 01:02:34 AM
I assumed they were still paying off the mortgage.. But the $2.35M was the net value of cash plus investments.. yes?

As to the 10 months.. Clearly love their jobs way more than I did..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on November 02, 2017, 06:46:42 AM
Seems reasonable to me.  60/58, kids are likely out of the house.  Sounds like a mortgage is still in place but perhaps they're part of the "never pay your mortgage off" crowd (nothing wrong with that).  At $2.35M, they could be in a place where they realize that they are FI but don't want to stop working yet for whatever reason.  That's fine too. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: honeyfill on November 03, 2017, 04:54:51 PM
Seems like there are some questions out there about our plans, so I thought I would give some more details.  I am not a true mustachian , I only discovered the site a few months ago. We had built up a nice nest egg of 1.7M in 2016 by maxing out the 401k since the first day they were offered.  But while we never wasted money , we spent a lot.  Lots of credit card debt , paid for daughterís tuition, lots of nice things. So we had no money in taxable accounts, and I did not want to take money out of the 401ks. 
So we always thought retirement was sometime in the future and didnít really plan for it. Plus I am an engineer and I do like my job.
Then I got an inheritance, 500k. It took a few months to for everything to really settle in mentally but I realized maybe I could retire. 
I figured the first thing to do was to get my debt in order.  Refinanced the house at 3.5% 270K loan, 150k equity on a 420k house.  Put all the credit cards on 0% interest.  Then started to blast through the debt.  I decided to start pulling 7 k a month out of our investments. Paid off our 2nd mortgage , paid off a ton of student debt, paid off lots of credit cards.  So why wait 10 more months?  Partly one more year, partly more debt.  21k on wifeís car 2.99%.  7 k on credit cards 0% , 7 k left on daughters student debt 4%, Thatís 5 months.  Then we want to remodel the kitchen and take a luxury retirement celebration vacation. I figure that is 35k and 5 months more.  The final complications are that my in-laws have moved in with us and my daughter has health problems , which have prevented her from working since the summer.  Fortunately all their health issues seem to have stabilized. Our daughter is back on her feet and sending out resumeís.  My inlaws have set up a support system and our not really a financial drain. They pay all the medical and care givers , we just kick in a place to live, food and shelter.  The 10 months will give us a chance to mentally prepare, get our spending down to something more mustache like and to figure out how we handle health care between now and medicare.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: soccerluvof4 on November 05, 2017, 07:13:12 AM
With my house I'm 2.9 and some change maybe could also get a few more dollars for the house. W/O house 2.6 and some change but its been kinda stagnant for me the last 6 months +/- as I have spent more than the budget because of the market rise. Remodeling etc.. things i know I would need to do down the line so I have taken out more than my normal withdrawal rate would be.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on November 11, 2017, 11:18:36 AM
Thanks for filling in some of the blanks, honeyfill. (Hee!)

Due to a bout of insomnia last night, I read through some of the lower goal races. I noticed a lot of people post updates monthly. Their passion and zeal is fun to see/remember.

This group seems to be a lot more relaxed, which is kind of a reward unto itself. Up to a certain point, it's a race. After that, it's a coast.

In news of the bizarre, a house in the neighborhood, but not nearly as new or as nice as ours, sold for $1.26M on 10/24/17. Zillow now says it's worth  $1,277,205, for an increase of $59,965 in 18 days!! They still think ours is "only" worth  $1.34M. Yawn. Whatever.*

I think I'll go make some scratch waffles with fresh berries for breakfast/brunch in my garage sale purchased waffle iron, then head over to my favorite thrift store. I just discovered that all clothing is half off on Saturdays. Whoop!

*I just found this on Zillow. "When it comes to unique homes (e.g., luxury mansions, unusual designs) we are less accurate in our Zestimates." No kidding.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on November 11, 2017, 11:33:24 AM
Thanks for filling in some of the blanks, honeyfill. (Hee!)

Due to a bout of insomnia last night, I read through some of the lower goal races. I noticed a lot of people post updates monthly. Their passion and zeal is fun to see/remember.

This group seems to be a lot more relaxed, which is kind of a reward unto itself. Up to a certain point, it's a race. After that, it's a coast.

I am not particularly wanting to coast to my number and to FIRE. But, with my NW now above $2M, I can't really drive it up fast by saving more. The growth of the stash these days is more reliant on returns than my savings efforts. I just have to wait for time to do its magic, and I will be where I want to be. In any case, I do update my progress on a monthly basis on the 2019 thread.

I should hit $3M Aussie pesos by the end of 2018, but that is only 2.3M USD.... def not racing to $3M USD.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on November 11, 2017, 11:45:06 AM
Maybe you're not experiencing as much of a bull market as the US is? Also, as you approach the equivalent of $2-3M USD, perhaps you'll feel a little differently. However, "just...wait[ing] for time to do its magic" kinda sounds like we're talking about the same thing.

I admit, I don't follow the cohort threads too closely, because I hit FIRE "too early"* Such a FWP!

*ETA: To clarify, there's no such thing as retiring too early. The cohorts didn't begin until I was out the corporate door, is what I meant. If someone wants to start one for 2012 retroactively,  I'll play along. Maybe ;-)

And you refrigerator people: get over it! The newer models are so much more energy efficient, they will pay for themselves in time. As long as you didn't buy some crazy-ass thing with Bluetooth, go optimize somewhere else, (Frank) and stop looking at that new shiny thing in your kitchen. No time for guilt here!!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on November 13, 2017, 11:42:53 AM
Stop talking about my fridge.. I already feel guilty sitting here looking at it..:)

It is nice not to have to repack the frigging freezer everytime we go shopping though!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: JoJoP on November 13, 2017, 10:00:54 PM
I have a new fancy pants fridge.  We got by on an avocado shade one till it died, then a teeny full sized one that fit in our teeny house and came with us when we moved.  There was about an extra foot of space that it didn't fill up in the kitchen fridge cubby.  It was white and everything else in the kitchen was black.  I know it shouldn't matter, but it did look stupid.  We had it about 6 years.    Now we splurged (after bargain hunting at Home Depot, on sale, using our 5% off cards,).  The fridge is great.  The French doors allow you to easily see everything in there, and the drawer is a great invention and leaves the cold air in the main part undisturbed.  It even makes our ice.  Face punch, right?  When I use the "cost per use" analysis, it was a good purchase.  We do use it everyday, after all... 

Now, back to my regularly scheduled thrift store shopping.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Secretly Saving on November 14, 2017, 06:27:31 AM
We just got a new one too.  Our old one was rusting through the front of it, but it was working so why bother changing something that still served it's purpose?  New fridge is fancy pants -- husband loves all the extra ice.  I kinda miss the old one.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on November 14, 2017, 10:07:24 AM
We rent a place that came with a fridge, dishwasher, washing machine etc, so no white goods shopping for us these days.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: markbike528CBX on November 14, 2017, 02:55:03 PM
...big snip here, I find it is more obvious to markbike528 the reader to snip than to bold key points.......

So, this month I started a trial fire with 2.9m. 10 days post job and the rallying markets have done enough to bump me over the $3m Mark.   .... snip....

On one hand it is nice to see someone who's finished this race taking a "trial" FIRE, as I'm in the same place on being tentative FIREing.
But on the other hand, good golly bigcrhisb.. you should have been done long ago.     

I can imagine people on this board wondering the same thing about me, even though I've just started this race, many others at lower NW have FIREd long ago.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on November 14, 2017, 07:27:02 PM
Hey everybody.  Looks like a lot of ya have migrated here from the 1 to 2.  I've been having some fun the last few weeks and even spending some money.  I went on a fishing trip with some friends, we even caught some.   Flew down to Mexico with the wife and another couple.  We did a lot of cool stuff.  Had a new roof put on the house.  We even sent some cash off for storm victims.  After all that, there's more in the bank than before.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on November 14, 2017, 08:32:24 PM
Hey everybody.  Looks like a lot of ya have migrated here from the 1 to 2.  I've been having some fun the last few weeks and even spending some money.  I went on a fishing trip with some friends, we even caught some.   Flew down to Mexico with the wife and another couple.  We did a lot of cool stuff.  Had a new roof put on the house.  We even sent some cash off for storm victims.  After all that, there's more in the bank than before.

Great job.. And there was me "scared" to look at my accounts after the massive pullback we have just had..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on November 14, 2017, 09:32:58 PM
...big snip here, I find it is more obvious to markbike528 the reader to snip than to bold key points.......

So, this month I started a trial fire with 2.9m. 10 days post job and the rallying markets have done enough to bump me over the $3m Mark.   .... snip....

On one hand it is nice to see someone who's finished this race taking a "trial" FIRE, as I'm in the same place on being tentative FIREing.
But on the other hand, good golly bigcrhisb.. you should have been done long ago.     

I can imagine people on this board wondering the same thing about me, even though I've just started this race, many others at lower NW have FIREd long ago.

Personal finance is indeed extremely personal.

There can be no fixed rule about what is the right amount as there are so many variables that are different for each person.

Many on these boards say ďif I had more money I wouldnít know what to do with itĒ. I donít have this problem. My imagination is pretty active.

So for me deciding what is ďenoughĒ is a constant weighing up of what I am sacrificing by being a wage slave versus what Iíd be sacrificing by FIREing today. I certainly have enough stash to FIRE, but I am still not quite at my personal tipping point where I am willing to lock myself into the lifestyle that my stash would finance, when a couple of years of extra work will provide a few extra options which seem worth working for today. That being said, if I lost my job I am not sure Iíd bother looking for a replacement.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on November 15, 2017, 03:53:18 AM
/\

We're pretty much living now at a level below what our stach could support.  Nobody says you have to live on less in retirement than in working years.  We've missed out on a lot during our working years.  We we're saving tens of thousands of dollars and working overtime while others were out spending money cruising the seas, buying new cars and fancy houses.  We're still working a few more years.  Now back of the napkin math says we're gaining about 10k a year in potential spending at 4% withdrawl every year we work.  The current number we could spend if FIRED is about 75k at 4%.  2018 85k, 2019 95k, 2020 105k  These are very rough and conservative numbers but you see the progression.   The 1 million stash level is where you can be frugal and make it, the 2 million stash level is a tipping point. We have the choice to live at the 1 million stash level and have the other million working for us.  We can have cheap years and bonus years.  Most likely our stash will grow into legacy funds after reaching 2 million, certainly once the 3 million level is reached.   
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on November 15, 2017, 07:43:03 AM
/\

We're pretty much living now at a level below what our stach could support.  Nobody says you have to live on less in retirement than in working years.  We've missed out on a lot during our working years.  We we're saving tens of thousands of dollars and working overtime while others were out spending money cruising the seas, buying new cars and fancy houses.  We're still working a few more years.  Now back of the napkin math says we're gaining about 10k a year in potential spending at 4% withdrawl every year we work.  The current number we could spend if FIRED is about 75k at 4%.  2018 85k, 2019 95k, 2020 105k  These are very rough and conservative numbers but you see the progression.   The 1 million stash level is where you can be frugal and make it, the 2 million stash level is a tipping point. We have the choice to live at the 1 million stash level and have the other million working for us.  We can have cheap years and bonus years.  Most likely our stash will grow into legacy funds after reaching 2 million, certainly once the 3 million level is reached.

Yep, I agree that the 2M point ( in investable assets ) is a tipping point.  However, what keeps us up at night is the ongoing healthcare debacle.  We have a family member with significant chronic health issues and feel that we need to save an additional 'significant amount' just to cover the potential uncertainty of future healthcare.   

I think healthcare is one of the major influencing factors that keeps people from FIREing...even with a large stashe.  I wish we could at least get some stability..but not gonna happen in this political environment. 


Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: begood on November 15, 2017, 07:51:10 AM
/\

We're pretty much living now at a level below what our stach could support.  Nobody says you have to live on less in retirement than in working years.  We've missed out on a lot during our working years.  We we're saving tens of thousands of dollars and working overtime while others were out spending money cruising the seas, buying new cars and fancy houses.  We're still working a few more years.  Now back of the napkin math says we're gaining about 10k a year in potential spending at 4% withdrawl every year we work.  The current number we could spend if FIRED is about 75k at 4%.  2018 85k, 2019 95k, 2020 105k  These are very rough and conservative numbers but you see the progression.   The 1 million stash level is where you can be frugal and make it, the 2 million stash level is a tipping point. We have the choice to live at the 1 million stash level and have the other million working for us.  We can have cheap years and bonus years.  Most likely our stash will grow into legacy funds after reaching 2 million, certainly once the 3 million level is reached.

Yep, I agree that the 2M point ( in investable assets ) is a tipping point.  However, what keeps us up at night is the ongoing healthcare debacle.  We have a family member with significant chronic health issues and feel that we need to save an additional 'significant amount' just to cover the potential uncertainty of future healthcare.   

I think healthcare is one of the major influencing factors that keeps people from FIREing...even with a large stashe.  I wish we could at least get some stability..but not gonna happen in this political environment.

Me too. My mister and I both have pre-existing conditions based on the most recent list that circulated. Without employer-supported insurance or some ACA-like insurance that's required to cover us, we could easily bankrupt ourselves with medical costs. To me, it's the splash of cold water on the face of FIRE. I don't Debbie Downer here because it's such a place of beautiful optimism, but I just can't get beyond the thought: "What if I can't get health care?"
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on November 15, 2017, 11:13:28 AM
Same here.  Any FIRE date prior to mid 2019 is not an option.  We have a cancer survivor son on my employer insurance who will be 26 in 2019.  Beyond that, FIRE may still be a dream if we must help with his healthcare costs.  Without the ACA we'd be in big trouble.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: bigchrisb on November 15, 2017, 03:08:34 PM
/\

We're pretty much living now at a level below what our stach could support.  Nobody says you have to live on less in retirement than in working years.  We've missed out on a lot during our working years.  We we're saving tens of thousands of dollars and working overtime while others were out spending money cruising the seas, buying new cars and fancy houses.  We're still working a few more years.  Now back of the napkin math says we're gaining about 10k a year in potential spending at 4% withdrawl every year we work.  The current number we could spend if FIRED is about 75k at 4%.  2018 85k, 2019 95k, 2020 105k  These are very rough and conservative numbers but you see the progression.   The 1 million stash level is where you can be frugal and make it, the 2 million stash level is a tipping point. We have the choice to live at the 1 million stash level and have the other million working for us.  We can have cheap years and bonus years.  Most likely our stash will grow into legacy funds after reaching 2 million, certainly once the 3 million level is reached.

Yep, I agree that the 2M point ( in investable assets ) is a tipping point.  However, what keeps us up at night is the ongoing healthcare debacle.  We have a family member with significant chronic health issues and feel that we need to save an additional 'significant amount' just to cover the potential uncertainty of future healthcare.   

I think healthcare is one of the major influencing factors that keeps people from FIREing...even with a large stashe.  I wish we could at least get some stability..but not gonna happen in this political environment.

Agree 100% with healthcare being an issue.  I have a degenerative, progressive condition which will have increasing impacts over life - hence the extra padding.  I'm lucky to live in a country with good public healthcare (Australia) - its not quite universal, but good enough for intents and purposes.  However, beyond the direct healthcare costs, having something that will probably prevent you from going back to work in a failure scenario in ~20 years time is a strong incentive to pad the stash a bit more,  both to reduce failure probability, and to allow for an increased spending on disability care if needed.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: bigchrisb on November 15, 2017, 03:31:40 PM
...big snip here, I find it is more obvious to markbike528 the reader to snip than to bold key points.......

So, this month I started a trial fire with 2.9m. 10 days post job and the rallying markets have done enough to bump me over the $3m Mark.   .... snip....

On one hand it is nice to see someone who's finished this race taking a "trial" FIRE, as I'm in the same place on being tentative FIREing.
But on the other hand, good golly bigcrhisb.. you should have been done long ago.     

I can imagine people on this board wondering the same thing about me, even though I've just started this race, many others at lower NW have FIREd long ago.

Personal finance is indeed extremely personal.

There can be no fixed rule about what is the right amount as there are so many variables that are different for each person.

Many on these boards say ďif I had more money I wouldnít know what to do with itĒ. I donít have this problem. My imagination is pretty active.

So for me deciding what is ďenoughĒ is a constant weighing up of what I am sacrificing by being a wage slave versus what Iíd be sacrificing by FIREing today. I certainly have enough stash to FIRE, but I am still not quite at my personal tipping point where I am willing to lock myself into the lifestyle that my stash would finance, when a couple of years of extra work will provide a few extra options which seem worth working for today. That being said, if I lost my job I am not sure Iíd bother looking for a replacement.

Indeed it is personal - I'd been more focused on the FI (which I hit a while ago), than the RE.  Multiple reasons for me, including:
- Health risks.  See one post up.
- Rate of change.  The snowballing had gotten to the point where "one more year" was adding multiple years of expenses, or increasing the potential draw down by $10k+ per year.
- A bit of "killing time". In the lead up my wife was pregnant with our first baby, so limited adventure potential in the last 3 months of the pregnancy.  Timing wise, we are going on a deployment for her work once the baby is 6 months, so it made for a natural exit point, where if it didn't work out, I could resume a career on return with a decent excuse for the gap in the CV.

I think that these forums tend to draw in personalities that like to optimise.  I spent a lot of time optimising FI, but cared less about optimising the RE.  Others have a bigger focus on optimising the RE part, and hence wonder what people like me are thinking!

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Koogie on November 15, 2017, 05:04:09 PM
I have a degenerative, progressive condition which will have increasing impacts over life - hence the extra padding.  I'm lucky to live in a country with good public healthcare (Australia) - its not quite universal, but good enough for intents and purposes.  However, beyond the direct healthcare costs, having something that will probably prevent you from going back to work in a failure scenario in ~20 years time is a strong incentive to pad the stash a bit more,  both to reduce failure probability, and to allow for an increased spending on disability care if needed.

Ditto (but in Canada).  DW has a degenerative neurological condition.  We have a large enough stash to accommodate our anticipated spending needs but not enough to feel perfectly safe from being ruined by future palliative care costs.   Hence, OMY syndrome.     

I have tried to make it easier on myself though by going semi-RE.   Quality of life NOW matters as well.    We aren't touching the stash as yet so it continues to feed itself and grow "organically"
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on November 21, 2017, 09:16:10 AM
You can almost have a mindset of retirement once you're financially independent.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: JoJoP on November 27, 2017, 10:35:11 PM
You can almost have a mindset of retirement once you're financially independent.

This is a great point!  Once you're FI, more things become optional.  Not just working, but purchases, investments, lifestyle, staching.  I've been a stay at home mom for years, but still worked- as a realtor for the last 8-10 years.  I can choose my clients and workload, or farm it out for a referral fee.  I manage our rentals and investments.   It doesn't feel like a real job, since I can choose to work, or not.  The real estate license was most valuable as a tool for reducing purchase costs on our rental investments, and has saved us a bundle.    I can carry on like this for another couple of decades.  MMM encourages frugality by learning to fix things (hubs does that for us), while I push the paper and plan the strategy.   Someday, at true retirement, if we keep the investment properties, maybe I'll farm out the rental management to a management company, but, in the mean time, I'm earning my keep.   It's not structured enough to feel like I have to RE to escape it.  We are Mustachians in the sense that we are completely hands on in all areas.  As someone who's always been a self employed entrepreneur and business owner,  the line between working, retirement and semi-retirement is not so clear cut.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on November 28, 2017, 08:31:31 AM
You can almost have a mindset of retirement once you're financially independent.

This is a great point!  Once you're FI, more things become optional.  Not just working, but purchases, investments, lifestyle, staching.  I've been a stay at home mom for years, but still worked- as a realtor for the last 8-10 years.  I can choose my clients and workload, or farm it out for a referral fee.  I manage our rentals and investments.   It doesn't feel like a real job, since I can choose to work, or not.  The real estate license was most valuable as a tool for reducing purchase costs on our rental investments, and has saved us a bundle.    I can carry on like this for another couple of decades.  MMM encourages frugality by learning to fix things (hubs does that for us), while I push the paper and plan the strategy.   Someday, at true retirement, if we keep the investment properties, maybe I'll farm out the rental management to a management company, but, in the mean time, I'm earning my keep.   It's not structured enough to feel like I have to RE to escape it.  We are Mustachians in the sense that we are completely hands on in all areas.  As someone who's always been a self employed entrepreneur and business owner,  the line between working, retirement and semi-retirement is not so clear cut.


My 'problem' is that we are..or nearly are...financially independent.   However, this has really affected my work motivation lately.  Therefore, I may be 'retired' before I know it!   

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on November 28, 2017, 08:58:49 AM
My 'problem' is that we are..or nearly are...financially independent.   However, this has really affected my work motivation lately.  Therefore, I may be 'retired' before I know it!
That's the very definition of an MPP!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: GettingClose on November 28, 2017, 12:12:48 PM
We just hit $3M today! There is absolutely no one IRL with whom this can be shared - so it feels great to post here!

The plan is for my spouse to retire by 09/01/2018 and then for me to work for another year to see how it goes. Yes, we're really cautious.  I tracked all of our spending last year, and it was about $65k, but health insurance alone would cost $1750/month for both of us (currently paid through work).   So that's another $21k, and then who knows how much more we'll spend in retireiment ...  My spouse, although careful with money, hates spending restrictions.

We're trying to get permanent residency status for Canada, which adds another layer of uncertainty.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on November 28, 2017, 01:12:13 PM
Nice job and "happy graduation".  Are you backing down your AA at this point, since "you've won the game"?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: GettingClose on November 28, 2017, 01:25:48 PM
Nice job and "happy graduation".  Are you backing down your AA at this point, since "you've won the game"?

Thank you!  Our AA was backed down a couple of years ago when we hit $2.5M; a good deal more conservative than I'd like.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on November 28, 2017, 07:30:53 PM
Fantastic.. Does that include equity in your house, pensions etc?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on November 28, 2017, 09:21:15 PM
Job well done Gettingclose.  That cost of healthcare scares the crap out of me.  I'd hoped 500k invested could be enough to cover health costs at a 4% withdrawal rate.   Maybe I'll need to up that amount.   
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: GettingClose on November 29, 2017, 10:16:44 AM
Fantastic.. Does that include equity in your house, pensions etc?

No pensions, but it does include the house.  This, however, is about to be sold (offer in hand, fingers crossed) - and we'll probably clear $50-100k above the number I've been using when calculating net worth.  The plan is to move to Canada and rent until we figure out "what's next".  The house is hugely expensive to run/insure/maintain/pay property tax on, so changes in housing costs are more unknowns coming up.  It's possible that renting a modest, energy-efficient home could cost less than owning a mortgage-free, 4800-sq-ft monstrosity with huge windows everywhere and an indoor pool ...  A lot of change and discovery ahead. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on November 29, 2017, 10:36:30 AM
Fantastic.. Does that include equity in your house, pensions etc?

No pensions, but it does include the house.  This, however, is about to be sold (offer in hand, fingers crossed) - and we'll probably clear $50-100k above the number I've been using when calculating net worth.  The plan is to move to Canada and rent until we figure out "what's next".  The house is hugely expensive to run/insure/maintain/pay property tax on, so changes in housing costs are more unknowns coming up.  It's possible that renting a modest, energy-efficient home could cost less than owning a mortgage-free, 4800-sq-ft monstrosity with huge windows everywhere and an indoor pool ...  A lot of change and discovery ahead.
Sounds exciting! Can't wait to hear more as your new life unfolds.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: BTDretire on November 29, 2017, 01:52:21 PM
One word, itchyfeet: philanthropy.

PTF. If I include the value of DH's defined benefit pension, we're there. I'm not counting our paid-for 1.3M home or the equity in our (lightly mortgaged) SFH rental properties. We're not racing anymore though, just cruising along, enjoying life, and the scenery, and smelling the roses.

Dicey, if you don't mind my asking, how do you assign a value to your husband's defined benefit pension? My husband should get about $27K/year (flat,non-COLA'd,

 I don't want to through a monkeywrench in here, but I went searching for a calculator that would give me the buying power of $27k with 13 years inflation at 3%. After 3 different searches I didn't find it!
 I put $27,000 in Excel and subtracted 3%,  13 times and got $18,172.
At 4% I got $15,881. At 5%, 1/2 of your buying power is gone, ($13,860)
  While I was at it, I ran the proverbial $40,000 of income for an MMM after 13 years @ 3%.
I get $58,741 or $1,469,000  required nestegg.
  It will be fine if someone checks my numbers, my logic doesn't always compute.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on November 29, 2017, 05:38:53 PM
It's all lifestyles of the rich and famous on this thread.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: AdrianC on November 30, 2017, 09:04:51 AM
That cost of healthcare [$1750/mo] scares the crap out of me.  I'd hoped 500k invested could be enough to cover health costs at a 4% withdrawal rate.   Maybe I'll need to up that amount.
Right now, as long as you keep your income down you'll qualify for a subsidy. I haven't managed it yet, but next year I'm projecting a subsidy of $1000/mo on a Bronze policy costing $1320/mo. That's pretty nice.

For 2019 who knows? My FIRE plan includes for healthcare costs rising at 13% per year and spending our deductible each year. I thought that was reasonable...until this years 80% increase in premiums if we stayed Silver with no subsidy.

Race to $5M?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on November 30, 2017, 09:13:52 AM
It's all lifestyles of the rich and famous frugal on this thread.
FTFY
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on November 30, 2017, 11:27:12 AM
It's all lifestyles of the rich and famous frugal on this thread.
FTFY

Ha that's better.  I don't think many of us are famous ( but who knows )! 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on December 01, 2017, 09:00:41 AM
We just hit the 3M mark, but I'm including the equity in our house. Background: I'm 41, my husband is 50. We both work in tech, and live in a VHCOL. Almost half of that 3M is in our 401Ks. The rest is split between liquid investments & home equity. My plan is to start spending down the liquid (if needed), as I'll be quitting my high paying job in June. I think our net worth will stay roughly the same, as our investments will grow, and my husband is hitting the sweet spot of his stock vesting schedule.

From a timing perspective, our net worth grew as follows (and, using the numbers I have available on my tracking chart - not because they are particularly round). The large increases are mostly due to stock vests.
-1/11 - $790K
-2/13 - $1,025,000
-10/14 - $1,514,000
-5/15 - $2,056,000
-11/16 - $2,381,000
-12/17 - $3,098,000
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on December 01, 2017, 09:05:47 AM
It's all lifestyles of the rich and famous frugal on this thread.
FTFY

Ha that's better.  I don't think many of us are famous ( but who knows )!
I suspect even if there are famous folk here, they'd value frugality over fame. Otherwise, why would they be here?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on December 01, 2017, 11:54:17 AM
We just hit the 3M mark, but I'm including the equity in our house. Background: I'm 41, my husband is 50. We both work in tech, and live in a VHCOL. Almost half of that 3M is in our 401Ks. The rest is split between liquid investments & home equity. My plan is to start spending down the liquid (if needed), as I'll be quitting my high paying job in June. I think our net worth will stay roughly the same, as our investments will grow, and my husband is hitting the sweet spot of his stock vesting schedule.

From a timing perspective, our net worth grew as follows (and, using the numbers I have available on my tracking chart - not because they are particularly round). The large increases are mostly due to stock vests.
-1/11 - $790K
-2/13 - $1,025,000
-10/14 - $1,514,000
-5/15 - $2,056,000
-11/16 - $2,381,000
-12/17 - $3,098,000

+700K in the past year. You must be getting nose bleeds!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on December 01, 2017, 12:18:55 PM
We just hit the 3M mark, but I'm including the equity in our house. Background: I'm 41, my husband is 50. We both work in tech, and live in a VHCOL. Almost half of that 3M is in our 401Ks. The rest is split between liquid investments & home equity. My plan is to start spending down the liquid (if needed), as I'll be quitting my high paying job in June. I think our net worth will stay roughly the same, as our investments will grow, and my husband is hitting the sweet spot of his stock vesting schedule.

From a timing perspective, our net worth grew as follows (and, using the numbers I have available on my tracking chart - not because they are particularly round). The large increases are mostly due to stock vests.
-1/11 - $790K
-2/13 - $1,025,000
-10/14 - $1,514,000
-5/15 - $2,056,000
-11/16 - $2,381,000
-12/17 - $3,098,000

+700K in the past year. You must be getting nose bleeds!

We can only take some of the credit. The company we (both) work for has had quite a stock increase. Which has led to our vested (unsold) options being worth quite a bit more. And, I'm finally really accruing meaningful options, which was tougher a few years ago when we were both newer to the company. But, the gravy train will be slowing down very quickly once I leave (planned date of end of June, 2018)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on December 04, 2017, 08:32:48 AM
Have the options been exercised, or is that the book value of the unexercised option?

 If the latter have you accounted for the tax liability on the options... if any is triggered on vesting or exercising.

Itís hard to imagine growing NW by $700k without a similarly hefty tax bill.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on December 04, 2017, 01:36:32 PM
Have the options been exercised, or is that the book value of the unexercised option?

 If the latter have you accounted for the tax liability on the options... if any is triggered on vesting or exercising.

Itís hard to imagine growing NW by $700k without a similarly hefty tax bill.

These are exercised options. We have the taxes automatically withheld before sale. There is a marginal amount left after that, which we save for, but our taxes for the holding is set & not adjustable. This isn't our first year of stock - our options have been vesting for four years. The amount has just grown more meaningful given length at the company.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on December 04, 2017, 07:01:24 PM
Nice!!!

Nothing more to be said really. Comgrats!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on December 04, 2017, 07:23:04 PM
To the east side (movin on up)
To a deluxe apartment in the sky.
Movin' on up (movin on up) To the east side (movin on up)
We finally got a piece of the pie.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=moving+on+up+to+the+east+side+lyrics&view=detail&mid=A95A073956BE39814DE9A95A073956BE39814DE9&FORM=VIRE
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: oldtoyota on December 04, 2017, 07:25:42 PM
Best part about being a Mustacian between $2M and $3M is that no one knows.
Mustacians in this savings bracket don't stick out as presenting an image of being "rich."
Most people who display the image of being rich really are living paycheck to paycheck.

A guy bought in iPhone 5 off me via Craigslist about a month ago. He was in the US from Costa Rica in order to skydive at 7 different locations. He drove a 1990s VW van (not old enough to have value and definitely not running well). He looked like a 50 year old hippy, yet I would wager that he is more financially independent than most of my gold-collar friends.

Stealth wealth is the place for me.  I'm just not comfortable letting people know my NW has crested 2M.  Since we still work it doesn't show much.  I shop at the dollar store and Goodwill.   My vehicle is 9 years old.  We haven't moved out of the home we bought in 1992.

Stealth wealth for me, too. I also shop at thrift stores, if I buy clothing at all, and my cars are oooolllld.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on December 04, 2017, 10:38:53 PM
I feel right at home in my soon to be 10 year old F250 XLT.  It will haul my stuff and I don't wash it.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on December 04, 2017, 11:16:25 PM
I feel right at home in my soon to be 10 year old F250 XLT.  It will haul my stuff and I don't wash it.

10 years old?.. our F250 was built in '89.. of course it uses so much gas we don't drive it much...:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on December 05, 2017, 09:20:28 AM
I hope to keep it a long time, 12 miles per gallon ain't very Mustacian.   We kept my wife's old Honda Accord,  190k miles.  Maybe I'll buy an electric car in a few years, never a new gasoline car for sure.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: GettingClose on December 05, 2017, 10:36:31 AM
With the security of the $3M stash achieved, I just negotiated an 8-week leave of absence, starting in late January.  I need to come in half a day a week to do some key management tasks, but can probably skip that a couple of times.

I don't plan to go anywhere; have been working since 1991 for the same company without ever taking more than 2.5 weeks off, and I'm just tired.  It's one big push or project after another. 

My plans:
1) work out 6 days/week. I already do 4-5x, but after working 9-10 hours, so I never do stretching or put in an extra 10 minutes.
2) cook dinner every night
3) convert all my photo albums over the years to Shutterfly books
4) do what yardwork can be done, depending on the weather
5) spend much more time with my grandkids
6) read a lot
7) maybe scan all receipts, tax forms, etc, in two big filing cabinets, to permanently eliminate that clutter.   This is 25 years' worth ... Does anyone have any experience with good software/hardware for doing this?

So excited!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on December 05, 2017, 11:31:39 AM
Hmmm, excited about filing.... canít see that ever happening to me.

Whilst not exactly going completely crazy with consumption, I would say that DW and I are quite conspicuous with our financial good fortune, unlike most here.

Our income is quite high (not as high as some, but higher than most), and I am perfectly happy with us spending half and saving half. I monitor our money closely but havenít felt the need to real in spending.

We blow a big chunk of earnings on travel to all sorts of exotic locations all over the world, which we then facebrag about shamelessly in a very un moustachian way..... this is the main way we are conspicuous.

I am a little embarrassed at our financial good fortune, and by how much we spend on travel, but YOLO (blush) and there is nothing else we particularly want to spend the money on.

We share 1 car and itís almost 6 years old. Our last car we kept for 12 years. We donít spend much on clothes or furniture or other junk. Itís not hard for us to save half of what we earn and still travel to wherever we want, even if itís only for a few days, making the cost per day ridiculous.

Despite this flaunting of spending power, I donít think I could ever get the courage to tell anyone straight up what my net worth is. Itís not even that high, but still higher than most could ever accumulate.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: GettingClose on December 05, 2017, 11:43:57 AM
Quote
Hmmm, excited about filing.... canít see that ever happening to me.

Hahaha! The excitement wasn't related to filing :-)

We're not overly mustachian either, our (hopefully soon to be sold) house is ridiculous for two people, and we travel quite a bit, too.  However we drive older used cars, do our own yardwork, re-use, recycle, and comparison shop.  We too could never mention net worth, or that the house is paid off, etc.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on December 05, 2017, 12:04:42 PM
With the security of the $3M stash achieved, I just negotiated an 8-week leave of absence, starting in late January.  I need to come in half a day a week to do some key management tasks, but can probably skip that a couple of times.

I don't plan to go anywhere; have been working since 1991 for the same company without ever taking more than 2.5 weeks off, and I'm just tired.  It's one big push or project after another. 

My plans:
1) work out 6 days/week. I already do 4-5x, but after working 9-10 hours, so I never do stretching or put in an extra 10 minutes.
2) cook dinner every night
3) convert all my photo albums over the years to Shutterfly books
4) do what yardwork can be done, depending on the weather
5) spend much more time with my grandkids
6) read a lot
7) maybe scan all receipts, tax forms, etc, in two big filing cabinets, to permanently eliminate that clutter.   This is 25 years' worth ... Does anyone have any experience with good software/hardware for doing this?

So excited!

Wow only 2.5 weeks a year vacation?  No disrespect, but maybe that's why you are tired! 

I have also worked since 1992 at the same job ( tech firm ).  And while it is a high pressure job, I *always* take all of my vacation.  To me, it is one of the key ways I can keep my sanity while working here.  Some of the 'workaholics' don't always like it but I tell them that the company gives us vacation for a reason...lol.

As far as scanning receipts and such...we don't do that.  We charge everything and the credit card summary is enough of a record of what we spent money on.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on December 05, 2017, 02:01:12 PM
With the security of the $3M stash achieved, I just negotiated an 8-week leave of absence, starting in late January.  I need to come in half a day a week to do some key management tasks, but can probably skip that a couple of times.

I don't plan to go anywhere; have been working since 1991 for the same company without ever taking more than 2.5 weeks off, and I'm just tired.  It's one big push or project after another. 

My plans:
1) work out 6 days/week. I already do 4-5x, but after working 9-10 hours, so I never do stretching or put in an extra 10 minutes.
2) cook dinner every night
3) convert all my photo albums over the years to Shutterfly books
4) do what yardwork can be done, depending on the weather
5) spend much more time with my grandkids
6) read a lot
7) maybe scan all receipts, tax forms, etc, in two big filing cabinets, to permanently eliminate that clutter.   This is 25 years' worth ... Does anyone have any experience with good software/hardware for doing this?
8) Take lots of naps

So excited!

Wow only 2.5 weeks a year vacation?  No disrespect, but maybe that's why you are tired! I hope OP means 2.5 weeks at a time, not total per year. If you're reading it correctly, that would be so, so sad!

I have also worked since 1992 at the same job ( tech firm ).  And while it is a high pressure job, I *always* take all of my vacation.  To me, it is one of the key ways I can keep my sanity while working here.  Some of the 'workaholics' don't always like it but I tell them that the company gives us vacation for a reason...lol. Great response!

As far as scanning receipts and such...we don't do that.  We charge everything and the credit card summary is enough of a record of what we spent money on. Erm, I'm guessing this indicates you have never been audited? This is NOT a Best Practice #askmehowIknow

Getting Close, you missed one. FTFY.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: GettingClose on December 05, 2017, 02:20:34 PM
With the security of the $3M stash achieved, I just negotiated an 8-week leave of absence, starting in late January.  I need to come in half a day a week to do some key management tasks, but can probably skip that a couple of times.

I don't plan to go anywhere; have been working since 1991 for the same company without ever taking more than 2.5 weeks off, and I'm just tired.  It's one big push or project after another. 

My plans:
1) work out 6 days/week. I already do 4-5x, but after working 9-10 hours, so I never do stretching or put in an extra 10 minutes.
2) cook dinner every night
3) convert all my photo albums over the years to Shutterfly books
4) do what yardwork can be done, depending on the weather
5) spend much more time with my grandkids
6) read a lot
7) maybe scan all receipts, tax forms, etc, in two big filing cabinets, to permanently eliminate that clutter.   This is 25 years' worth ... Does anyone have any experience with good software/hardware for doing this?
8) Take lots of naps and drink lots of hot chocolate

So excited!

Wow only 2.5 weeks a year vacation?  No disrespect, but maybe that's why you are tired! I hope OP means 2.5 weeks at a time, not total per year. If you're reading it correctly, that would be so, so sad! Yes, I have 5 weeks of PTO + 10 paid holidays, and I do take it all.

I have also worked since 1992 at the same job ( tech firm ).  And while it is a high pressure job, I *always* take all of my vacation.  To me, it is one of the key ways I can keep my sanity while working here.  Some of the 'workaholics' don't always like it but I tell them that the company gives us vacation for a reason...lol. Great response! Yes, the higher the pressure, the more vacation is needed.

As far as scanning receipts and such...we don't do that.  We charge everything and the credit card summary is enough of a record of what we spent money on. Erm, I'm guessing this indicates you have never been audited? This is NOT a Best Practice #askmehowIknow

Getting Close, you missed one. FTFY.  I appreciate that :-)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on December 06, 2017, 07:34:43 AM
With the security of the $3M stash achieved, I just negotiated an 8-week leave of absence, starting in late January.  I need to come in half a day a week to do some key management tasks, but can probably skip that a couple of times.

I don't plan to go anywhere; have been working since 1991 for the same company without ever taking more than 2.5 weeks off, and I'm just tired.  It's one big push or project after another. 

My plans:
1) work out 6 days/week. I already do 4-5x, but after working 9-10 hours, so I never do stretching or put in an extra 10 minutes.
2) cook dinner every night
3) convert all my photo albums over the years to Shutterfly books
4) do what yardwork can be done, depending on the weather
5) spend much more time with my grandkids
6) read a lot
7) maybe scan all receipts, tax forms, etc, in two big filing cabinets, to permanently eliminate that clutter.   This is 25 years' worth ... Does anyone have any experience with good software/hardware for doing this?
8) Take lots of naps and drink lots of hot chocolate

So excited!

Wow only 2.5 weeks a year vacation?  No disrespect, but maybe that's why you are tired! I hope OP means 2.5 weeks at a time, not total per year. If you're reading it correctly, that would be so, so sad! Yes, I have 5 weeks of PTO + 10 paid holidays, and I do take it all.

I have also worked since 1992 at the same job ( tech firm ).  And while it is a high pressure job, I *always* take all of my vacation.  To me, it is one of the key ways I can keep my sanity while working here.  Some of the 'workaholics' don't always like it but I tell them that the company gives us vacation for a reason...lol. Great response! Yes, the higher the pressure, the more vacation is needed.

As far as scanning receipts and such...we don't do that.  We charge everything and the credit card summary is enough of a record of what we spent money on. Erm, I'm guessing this indicates you have never been audited? This is NOT a Best Practice #askmehowIknow

Getting Close, you missed one. FTFY.  I appreciate that :-)

Whew! Glad you do take advantage of your vacation.  You scared me there for a minute. :-)

Like I mentioned, where I work, there are MANY ( often grumpy ) people who use very little vacation.  It boggles my mind and I'm not afraid to tell them ( in a gentle way ) why they might be a little bit 'grumpy'. 

As for the receipt scanning thing...I'm aware that it's probably not a 'best practice'.  However, I also know that very, very few people do it.  An excuse?  Absolutely...but I guess I'll take my chances.

And one more thing.  As I get closer to FI....or have already arrived, I feel less and less pressure on the job.  I'm not sure that is a good thing...because I also feel less motivated! 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: JoJoP on December 06, 2017, 09:10:51 AM
Hmmm, excited about filing.... canít see that ever happening to me.

Whilst not exactly going completely crazy with consumption, I would say that DW and I are quite conspicuous with our financial good fortune, unlike most here.

Our income is quite high (not as high as some, but higher than most), and I am perfectly happy with us spending half and saving half. I monitor our money closely but havenít felt the need to real in spending.

We blow a big chunk of earnings on travel to all sorts of exotic locations all over the world, which we then facebrag about shamelessly in a very un moustachian way..... this is the main way we are conspicuous.

I am a little embarrassed at our financial good fortune, and by how much we spend on travel, but YOLO (blush) and there is nothing else we particularly want to spend the money on.

We share 1 car and itís almost 6 years old. Our last car we kept for 12 years. We donít spend much on clothes or furniture or other junk. Itís not hard for us to save half of what we earn and still travel to wherever we want, even if itís only for a few days, making the cost per day ridiculous.

Despite this flaunting of spending power, I donít think I could ever get the courage to tell anyone straight up what my net worth is. Itís not even that high, but still higher than most could ever accumulate.

If you're saving half of what you earn, that seems pretty great by any standards.

So, where do you like to travel to?    We're travelers, also.  We don't brag about our travels, and try to emphasize the frugality of our adventures.  (Thailand!  5 dollars for a full 3 course dinner!)  We're extremely frequent travelers (I filled a passport in 4 years), and that is hard to downplay when one is unavailable to go to a movie or dinner, because they are out of the country.  Currently we're traveling internationally about 6 times a year, mostly to Europe, with other destinations sprinkled in.  It's a dream come true.  We are not high budget travelers, though, and have found that we can travel Europe for about half what it costs to do the same thing at home.  I've stayed in 1000 year old castles for less than $50 a night. But frugal is who we are.  We can talk for 20 minutes over the merits of a $40 vs. $60 hotel room, and often do.   We do fancy hotels occasionally, but only if some sort of amazing bargain was found.  10 cents on the dollar is about right to lure me.
Really, having a high NW is a blessing.  We have earned every penny, made good choices over decades, had some good fortune (along with plenty of mistakes), and worked hard (yes, yes we did!).   Frugality got us here, and that doesn't change with more money tossed in.   We help our family, including taking them on trips and making generous gifts.   Our kids get a good college education and we don't have to scrimp because of it.  We drive dependable vehicles, albeit until they die or become less dependable.  We live in a nice house with nice stuff, go on trips, enjoy ourselves,  AND can still spread it around.   

As far as  actually spilling the NW value... DON"T!  Talk to us instead!   Some friends of mine recently sold a business and the gossip was that it sold at a 1.5 million price tag.  It pricks up everybody's ears, including mine.  They are living frugally compared to most, and that's a topic for the spendthrifts in and of itself.  The green monster lifts his head over these topics.  Financial success is just so rare in this world, that it's an alluring topic.   
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: JoJoP on December 06, 2017, 09:40:48 AM
[

My plans:
1) work out 6 days/week. I already do 4-5x, but after working 9-10 hours, so I never do stretching or put in an extra 10 minutes.
2) cook dinner every night
3) convert all my photo albums over the years to Shutterfly books
4) do what yardwork can be done, depending on the weather
5) spend much more time with my grandkids
6) read a lot
7) maybe scan all receipts, tax forms, etc, in two big filing cabinets, to permanently eliminate that clutter.   This is 25 years' worth ... Does anyone have any experience with good software/hardware for doing this?
8) Take lots of naps and drink lots of hot chocolate

So excited!
[/quote]
  That should be very gratifying.  We are winding down our work, too, and it's so nice to be able to tackle all the things that have been low on the priority list.  For me, it was my garden and de-cluttering.  The garden is thriving, and most of it was planted earlier this year.   I wanted to emphasize native plants that are bird, bee and butterfly friendly.  It's like a little ecosystem out there.   It's so rewarding! 

Quote
And one more thing.  As I get closer to FI....or have already arrived, I feel less and less pressure on the job.  I'm not sure that is a good thing...because I also feel less motivated!

Sounds great!  Time is like closet space- you'll fill it with the tasks at hand.  Enjoy the R & R, and congrats!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on December 06, 2017, 11:50:52 AM
Hmmm, excited about filing.... canít see that ever happening to me.

Whilst not exactly going completely crazy with consumption, I would say that DW and I are quite conspicuous with our financial good fortune, unlike most here.

Our income is quite high (not as high as some, but higher than most), and I am perfectly happy with us spending half and saving half. I monitor our money closely but havenít felt the need to real in spending.

We blow a big chunk of earnings on travel to all sorts of exotic locations all over the world, which we then facebrag about shamelessly in a very un moustachian way..... this is the main way we are conspicuous.

I am a little embarrassed at our financial good fortune, and by how much we spend on travel, but YOLO (blush) and there is nothing else we particularly want to spend the money on.

We share 1 car and itís almost 6 years old. Our last car we kept for 12 years. We donít spend much on clothes or furniture or other junk. Itís not hard for us to save half of what we earn and still travel to wherever we want, even if itís only for a few days, making the cost per day ridiculous.

Despite this flaunting of spending power, I donít think I could ever get the courage to tell anyone straight up what my net worth is. Itís not even that high, but still higher than most could ever accumulate.

If you're saving half of what you earn, that seems pretty great by any standards.

So, where do you like to travel to?    We're travelers, also.  We don't brag about our travels, and try to emphasize the frugality of our adventures.  (Thailand!  5 dollars for a full 3 course dinner!)  We're extremely frequent travelers (I filled a passport in 4 years), and that is hard to downplay when one is unavailable to go to a movie or dinner, because they are out of the country.  Currently we're traveling internationally about 6 times a year, mostly to Europe, with other destinations sprinkled in.  It's a dream come true.  We are not high budget travelers, though, and have found that we can travel Europe for about half what it costs to do the same thing at home.  I've stayed in 1000 year old castles for less than $50 a night. But frugal is who we are.  We can talk for 20 minutes over the merits of a $40 vs. $60 hotel room, and often do.   We do fancy hotels occasionally, but only if some sort of amazing bargain was found.  10 cents on the dollar is about right to lure me.
Really, having a high NW is a blessing.  We have earned every penny, made good choices over decades, had some good fortune (along with plenty of mistakes), and worked hard (yes, yes we did!).   Frugality got us here, and that doesn't change with more money tossed in.   We help our family, including taking them on trips and making generous gifts.   Our kids get a good college education and we don't have to scrimp because of it.  We drive dependable vehicles, albeit until they die or become less dependable.  We live in a nice house with nice stuff, go on trips, enjoy ourselves,  AND can still spread it around.   

As far as  actually spilling the NW value... DON"T!  Talk to us instead!   Some friends of mine recently sold a business and the gossip was that it sold at a 1.5 million price tag.  It pricks up everybody's ears, including mine.  They are living frugally compared to most, and that's a topic for the spendthrifts in and of itself.  The green monster lifts his head over these topics.  Financial success is just so rare in this world, that it's an alluring topic.

We travel wherever takes our fancy. Sometimes we go el cheapo, sometimes not.

Last week I had some business in France, so I organised to meet DW in Finland afterwards and we flew up to Lapland to do a husky safari and squeeze in a little skiing. We squeezed a lot into 4 days and had an awesome time.

We keep saying we should spend less on travel, but then some opportunity presents itself and we just keep concluding that we have never regretted the things we have done, just the things we didnít do. Hence, I try to make that list as short as possible.

At the end of it all we might have to work an extra year compared to what would have been the case if we had passed on all the travel opportunities and stuck to 1 overseas trip every couple of years. Working the extra year is the right choice for us.

Retiring at 46 or at 47 is much of a muchness, and we have had a life full of incredible experiences exploring the world. We would never wish to have replaced our experiences with a couple of hundred grand extra in the bank..... but these are the words of someone who got pretty lucky on the money front.... yes there was hard work, persistence, risk taking and good decision making involved, also a fair amount of stress and way too many hours sitting in airport terminals........but also a fat slab of good fortune.

In 2 weeks we fly to Sydney. Yay!

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: GettingClose on December 06, 2017, 02:03:16 PM
Quote
Last week I had some business in France, so I organised to meet DW in Finland afterwards and we flew up to Lapland to do a husky safari and squeeze in a little skiing. We squeezed a lot into 4 days and had an awesome time.

We keep saying we should spend less on travel, but then some opportunity presents itself and we just keep concluding that we have never regretted the things we have done, just the things we didnít do. Hence, I try to make that list as short as possible.

At the end of it all we might have to work an extra year compared to what would have been the case if we had passed on all the travel opportunities and stuck to 1 overseas trip every couple of years. Working the extra year is the right choice for us.

Sounds like a good balance of "now" and "later".

Quote
Retiring at 46 or at 47 is much of a muchness, and we have had a life full of incredible experiences exploring the world.
I'm right around these ages ... when did you FIRE?

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on December 06, 2017, 08:02:59 PM
Quote
Last week I had some business in France, so I organised to meet DW in Finland afterwards and we flew up to Lapland to do a husky safari and squeeze in a little skiing. We squeezed a lot into 4 days and had an awesome time.

We keep saying we should spend less on travel, but then some opportunity presents itself and we just keep concluding that we have never regretted the things we have done, just the things we didnít do. Hence, I try to make that list as short as possible.

At the end of it all we might have to work an extra year compared to what would have been the case if we had passed on all the travel opportunities and stuck to 1 overseas trip every couple of years. Working the extra year is the right choice for us.

Sounds like a good balance of "now" and "later".

Quote
Retiring at 46 or at 47 is much of a muchness, and we have had a life full of incredible experiences exploring the world.
I'm right around these ages ... when did you FIRE?

Planning to FIRE mid 2019. Still working and squeezing in life around the demands of my employer.

I am fortunate to get 6 weeks leave a year, plus the 10 public holidays here, so effectively 8 weeks of adventures each year, but split into smallish chucks. Looking forward to slowing things down post FIRE. Maybe half the trips, but each trip triple the duration.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Secretly Saving on December 06, 2017, 08:13:40 PM
Hmmm, excited about filing.... canít see that ever happening to me.

Whilst not exactly going completely crazy with consumption, I would say that DW and I are quite conspicuous with our financial good fortune, unlike most here.

Our income is quite high (not as high as some, but higher than most), and I am perfectly happy with us spending half and saving half. I monitor our money closely but havenít felt the need to real in spending.

We blow a big chunk of earnings on travel to all sorts of exotic locations all over the world, which we then facebrag about shamelessly in a very un moustachian way..... this is the main way we are conspicuous.

I am a little embarrassed at our financial good fortune, and by how much we spend on travel, but YOLO (blush) and there is nothing else we particularly want to spend the money on.

We share 1 car and itís almost 6 years old. Our last car we kept for 12 years. We donít spend much on clothes or furniture or other junk. Itís not hard for us to save half of what we earn and still travel to wherever we want, even if itís only for a few days, making the cost per day ridiculous.

Despite this flaunting of spending power, I donít think I could ever get the courage to tell anyone straight up what my net worth is. Itís not even that high, but still higher than most could ever accumulate.

If you're saving half of what you earn, that seems pretty great by any standards.

So, where do you like to travel to?    We're travelers, also.  We don't brag about our travels, and try to emphasize the frugality of our adventures.  (Thailand!  5 dollars for a full 3 course dinner!)  We're extremely frequent travelers (I filled a passport in 4 years), and that is hard to downplay when one is unavailable to go to a movie or dinner, because they are out of the country.  Currently we're traveling internationally about 6 times a year, mostly to Europe, with other destinations sprinkled in.  It's a dream come true.  We are not high budget travelers, though, and have found that we can travel Europe for about half what it costs to do the same thing at home.  I've stayed in 1000 year old castles for less than $50 a night. But frugal is who we are.  We can talk for 20 minutes over the merits of a $40 vs. $60 hotel room, and often do.   We do fancy hotels occasionally, but only if some sort of amazing bargain was found.  10 cents on the dollar is about right to lure me.
Really, having a high NW is a blessing.  We have earned every penny, made good choices over decades, had some good fortune (along with plenty of mistakes), and worked hard (yes, yes we did!).   Frugality got us here, and that doesn't change with more money tossed in.   We help our family, including taking them on trips and making generous gifts.   Our kids get a good college education and we don't have to scrimp because of it.  We drive dependable vehicles, albeit until they die or become less dependable.  We live in a nice house with nice stuff, go on trips, enjoy ourselves,  AND can still spread it around.   

As far as  actually spilling the NW value... DON"T!  Talk to us instead!   Some friends of mine recently sold a business and the gossip was that it sold at a 1.5 million price tag.  It pricks up everybody's ears, including mine.  They are living frugally compared to most, and that's a topic for the spendthrifts in and of itself.  The green monster lifts his head over these topics.  Financial success is just so rare in this world, that it's an alluring topic.

Jill P, I'd love to hear about your favorite places -- 1000 year old castles and more all on a budget!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on December 06, 2017, 09:41:36 PM
Please share your travel stories.   My wife and I haven't traveled much at all.  Just too busy with work and family.   I'd love to strike out upon the world as a nomad.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: PhrugalPhan on December 06, 2017, 09:47:54 PM
I read this complete thread and enjoyed reading about how you can calculate your 'stache.  As I only have about $850k in all of my accounts I didn't think I could fit in here, then I reconsidered.  Maybe the group can say if this makes sense.

Here goes.... while I am single, I am in a 6+ year relationship where she is going to move in with me when she retires.  My GF has just over $1 Mil in her TSP & inherited IRA (about $1.01 Mil right now).  Since most people include significant others, if you combine our 'staches we have about $1.85Mil.

In addition we both have pensions at our jobs.  She is a Fed and can retire at the end of 2018 with a $30k/year payout for life with a COLA (and mostly paid for health insurance).  Using the 25X multiplier, that would be an approximate $750k 'stache addition.

And then I have a pension I am working towards as well.  Its a solid local government pension.  I am currently vested at $29k/yr and if I continue working 5 more years I can get it right away and will probably be $40k/year.  If I left now, I have to wait a decade to start getting it.  If I take the $29k/year, use the 25X multiplier, and discount it by 25% (I figure that's a conservative number?), that gives me $543k to add to a 'stache. 

Is it safe to say we already have an $3+ Mil 'stache?  That seems crazy beyond belief.  I also have a paid off house that comps in at about $350k too.  I didn't mean to write and brag, but while I knew we wouldn't have to worry about money really, I had no idea we could consider that we are worth this amount.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on December 07, 2017, 06:26:15 AM
Sounds like you've jumped right through the $3M point.  Waiting for someone to start a $3M->$4M thread.  I know some here are reluctant, taking to heart the MMM story.  How could anyone have more than $1M and not retire?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on December 07, 2017, 08:44:13 AM
I read this complete thread and enjoyed reading about how you can calculate your 'stache.  As I only have about $850k in all of my accounts I didn't think I could fit in here, then I reconsidered.  Maybe the group can say if this makes sense.

Here goes.... while I am single, I am in a 6+ year relationship where she is going to move in with me when she retires.  My GF has just over $1 Mil in her TSP & inherited IRA (about $1.01 Mil right now).  Since most people include significant others, if you combine our 'staches we have about $1.85Mil.

In addition we both have pensions at our jobs.  She is a Fed and can retire at the end of 2018 with a $30k/year payout for life with a COLA (and mostly paid for health insurance).  Using the 25X multiplier, that would be an approximate $750k 'stache addition.

And then I have a pension I am working towards as well.  Its a solid local government pension.  I am currently vested at $29k/yr and if I continue working 5 more years I can get it right away and will probably be $40k/year.  If I left now, I have to wait a decade to start getting it.  If I take the $29k/year, use the 25X multiplier, and discount it by 25% (I figure that's a conservative number?), that gives me $543k to add to a 'stache. 

Is it safe to say we already have an $3+ Mil 'stache?  That seems crazy beyond belief.  I also have a paid off house that comps in at about $350k too.  I didn't mean to write and brag, but while I knew we wouldn't have to worry about money really, I had no idea we could consider that we are worth this amount.

Looks like you fit in fine here!  The numbers are just a general guideline...people calculate in different ways and differ on what they include in the 'final number'.

As for us, I am not currently counting my wife's pension...only 'investable assets' and the paid-off house...to arrive at our 2.4M number.  Adding in her pension would result in a greater number...but who cares?   One could also factor in future Social Security income..but none really do ( however, pretty much any retirement planner does...like personal capital, etc... ).

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on December 07, 2017, 05:53:53 PM
I haven't seen any hard set rules on how to tabulate your wealth as a requirement to pos5 here.  I toss in paid off real estate to make the cut.  We all welcome your input.   I know I've personally learned a ton from these folks.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on December 07, 2017, 10:50:42 PM
Yes same here.. I tend to include the current value of pensions because that turns into real income which is what we want our Stash to do as well.

 I tend to exclude the house because we are more than likely to stay here for the forseable future despite dreams to the contrary, even then we still need somewhere to live. Its also hard to value because there are few comps to our little farmette.

I any case

Stash - $1.94m
Pensions - about $0.51m
House -- about $0.4m or so.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on December 07, 2017, 10:59:49 PM
After years of budgeting and watching the pennies, we are richer now than we ever imagined possible. We realized that between RMD's, DH's pension w/ COLA and health benefits, and Social Security, we stand to make more per year in retirement than we ever did working. Therefore, I don't count every penny of NW, because we have "Enough". I think we could level up if a new thread was started, but I'd have to calculate and include the value of his pension, which I am too lazy to do.

I like following along on the $500k --->$1M, and the $1M--->$2M threads too. It's fun to see people making good decisions and great progress!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Secretly Saving on December 08, 2017, 04:52:52 AM
After years of budgeting and watching the pennies, we are richer now than we ever imagined possible. We realized that between RMD's, DH's pension w/ COLA and health benefits, and Social Security, we stand to make more per year in retirement than we ever did working. Therefore, I don't count every penny of NW, because we have "Enough". I think we could level up if a new thread was started, but I'd have to calculate and include the value of his pension, which I am too lazy to do.

I like following along on the $500k --->$1M, and the $1M--->$2M threads too. It's fun to see people making good decisions and great progress!

Yes, it is fun to celebrate other's successes!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on December 08, 2017, 07:49:06 AM
Yes same here.. I tend to include the current value of pensions because that turns into real income which is what we want our Stash to do as well.

 I tend to exclude the house because we are more than likely to stay here for the forseable future despite dreams to the contrary, even then we still need somewhere to live. Its also hard to value because there are few comps to our little farmette.

I any case

Stash - $1.94m
Pensions - about $0.51m
House -- about $0.4m or so.


The problem I have with pensions is personal.  Mine went away...taken by a big corporation when they 'restructured'.   Instead, they gave us a cash balance plan with NO control and they only pay 'market rate' (i.e. - crappy) interest payments to it.   BTW this has happened to millions in the last decade or two....even to people near retirement who were really were counting on the income.  Many of my coworkers fell into this trap and it was extremely sad to see.  Luckily, I was younger at the time.

If you think your pension is safe then I can see adding it in.  However, if for any reason it might not be safe, I'd err on the side of caution.  BTW this is also why many younger folks don't factor in Social Security and treat it as an extra...they fear that it very well might not be around when the time comes.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on December 08, 2017, 11:04:36 AM
If I ever make it $3M.... even $3M Aussie rupees, Iíll start a $3M-$4M thread just cause I could 😁. There seems to be a bunch of you that could do so today!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on December 08, 2017, 01:03:57 PM
Yes same here.. I tend to include the current value of pensions because that turns into real income which is what we want our Stash to do as well.

 I tend to exclude the house because we are more than likely to stay here for the forseable future despite dreams to the contrary, even then we still need somewhere to live. Its also hard to value because there are few comps to our little farmette.

I any case

Stash - $1.94m
Pensions - about $0.51m
House -- about $0.4m or so.


The problem I have with pensions is personal.  Mine went away...taken by a big corporation when they 'restructured'.   Instead, they gave us a cash balance plan with NO control and they only pay 'market rate' (i.e. - crappy) interest payments to it.   BTW this has happened to millions in the last decade or two....even to people near retirement who were really were counting on the income.  Many of my coworkers fell into this trap and it was extremely sad to see.  Luckily, I was younger at the time.

If you think your pension is safe then I can see adding it in.  However, if for any reason it might not be safe, I'd err on the side of caution.  BTW this is also why many younger folks don't factor in Social Security and treat it as an extra...they fear that it very well might not be around when the time comes.

Good point.. How that can be legal is beyond me.. But then again nothing should amaze me in the USA Oligarchy.. Place is run by criminals.

Fortunately for us, DW's pension is State funded in Oregon so it (and one day it will) would have to go bankrupt. Secondly, my UK pension is much better protected and backed by the Government to 90% (100% after I start drawing it). I guess those "evil Socialists" don't take very kindly to big company's stealing their employee pensions.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on December 08, 2017, 01:40:16 PM
Yes same here.. I tend to include the current value of pensions because that turns into real income which is what we want our Stash to do as well.

 I tend to exclude the house because we are more than likely to stay here for the forseable future despite dreams to the contrary, even then we still need somewhere to live. Its also hard to value because there are few comps to our little farmette.

I any case

Stash - $1.94m
Pensions - about $0.51m
House -- about $0.4m or so.


The problem I have with pensions is personal.  Mine went away...taken by a big corporation when they 'restructured'.   Instead, they gave us a cash balance plan with NO control and they only pay 'market rate' (i.e. - crappy) interest payments to it.   BTW this has happened to millions in the last decade or two....even to people near retirement who were really were counting on the income.  Many of my coworkers fell into this trap and it was extremely sad to see.  Luckily, I was younger at the time.

If you think your pension is safe then I can see adding it in.  However, if for any reason it might not be safe, I'd err on the side of caution.  BTW this is also why many younger folks don't factor in Social Security and treat it as an extra...they fear that it very well might not be around when the time comes.

Good point.. How that can be legal is beyond me.. But then again nothing should amaze me in the USA Oligarchy.. Place is run by criminals.

Fortunately for us, DW's pension is State funded in Oregon so it (and one day it will) would have to go bankrupt. Secondly, my UK pension is much better protected and backed by the Government to 90% (100% after I start drawing it). I guess those "evil Socialists" don't take very kindly to big company's stealing their employee pensions.

This happened to me in (2012) 20 years into my career.   I only had 8 years (2020) to go to lock in 50% of my income for life at age 52.  Then the cash balance came.  They paid me $165,000 for 20 years of service into their new plan with a 5% rate of interest.  It's grown with contributions to 331K currently.  I make about 120k a year.  The math here isn't even close.  We got legally screwed.  Many people I've worked with didn't save past the company match in the 401k if that.  You put in 6% they match 50% so most had a relative 9% if that.  They figured the 401k would be play money.  They'd get 60-75k from pension.  It's gone!  One guy I know is 54, has 90k in his 401k, never thought it would be important, wants to retire soon. He still has debt he's paying.   Same company, same opportunity  My 401k is over 10x larger than his.  I'm 49 and have worked less years for the company.  Great guy, really likeable and not a screw-up.  There are many just like him.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on December 08, 2017, 04:18:00 PM
State pensions and city pensions are all susceptible to being cut in a bankruptcy. City of Detroit employees had their pensions lowered due to the bankruptcy. The state of Illinois and the city of Chicago pensions may eventually be cut down in bankruptcy court.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on December 08, 2017, 04:31:33 PM
State pensions and city pensions are all susceptible to being cut in a bankruptcy. City of Detroit employees had their pensions lowered due to the bankruptcy. The state of Illinois and the city of Chicago pensions may eventually be cut down in bankruptcy court.

True, the State has visited court a few times trying to cut the benefits paid under PERs.. Each time they have been sent home with their tail between their legs. I think you'r right though, one day they will prevail.

Fortunately for us the Oregon pension is pretty small and the much better protected UK pension is somewhat larger.

Sounds like if the directors tried raiding the pension funds in the UK they would get a one way ticket to prison! They can't do it anyway because the pension funds have to be in a separate financial company.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on December 09, 2017, 06:00:22 AM
I just logged into my brokerage account and it is showing that the returns I have generated on my stock investments this year are a 18.94% pa.

That is pretty mind blowing, when there was a lot of predictions of flat or down markets for 2017 at the end of last year.

Itís unfortunate that all my NW is not sitting in my brokerage. Itís only about 20% of my NW at this time. Sigh.

A big chunk of my NW (50%) is in a few properties I own and these assets have performed no where near as well as stock in the past year, and values have in fact been declining over the past 6 months. 🙁

But in 2015 and 2016 my property investments performed far stronger than stocks. They were the assets providing 20% returns. I guess that is what diversification provides, a levelling out of volatility by investing across asset classes. My diversification is working so I have to be happy.

I have been slowly changing my investment mix away from property over the past few years, but it takes time.

I also have another big chunk in Australian Superannuation Funds (like 401K) (30% of NW) that is invested by the fund managers with a heavy skew to Australian stocks and Australian fixed interest, which have not performed particularly well in the past year relative to global markets, but still not too bad.

Overall my total portfolio returns have now slipped a smidge below 10% for the year with my properties dragging things down, and me carrying a bit of cash throughout the year. Of course if I could get 10% every year Iíd take it!

Still 19% on stocks WOW!!!.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on December 09, 2017, 07:48:21 AM
I just logged into my brokerage account and it is showing that the returns I have generated on my stock investments this year are a 18.94% pa.

That is pretty mind blowing, when there was a lot of predictions of flat or down markets for 2017 at the end of last year.

Itís unfortunate that all my NW is not sitting in my brokerage. Itís only about 20% of my NW at this time. Sigh.

A big chunk of my NW (50%) is in a few properties I own and these assets have performed no where near as well as stock in the past year, and values have in fact been declining over the past 6 months. 🙁

But in 2015 and 2016 my property investments performed far stronger than stocks. They were the assets providing 20% returns. I guess that is what diversification provides, a levelling out of volatility by investing across asset classes. My diversification is working so I have to be happy.

I have been slowly changing my investment mix away from property over the past few years, but it takes time.

I also have another big chunk in Australian Superannuation Funds (like 401K) (30% of NW) that is invested by the fund managers with a heavy skew to Australian stocks and Australian fixed interest, which have not performed particularly well in the past year relative to global markets, but still not too bad.

Overall my total portfolio returns have now slipped a smidge below 10% for the year with my properties dragging things down, and me carrying a bit of cash throughout the year. Of course if I could get 10% every year Iíd take it!

Still 19% on stocks WOW!!!.

I don't want to knock owning real assets.  I hope to buy a homestead for retirement soon.  Property gains are most easily made on the front end.  We do own property now, an old bayou fishing camp on stilts.   It was cheap and we fixed it up.  Now million dollar homes surround it and have really screwed up the atmosphere.
Stocks can be volatile, I certainly didn't expect a 23% return this year but that's where were at.  It's put us to within about 8% of our FIRE goal.  If I don't move out the goal.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on December 09, 2017, 11:42:49 AM
Sounds like you've jumped right through the $3M point.  Waiting for someone to start a $3M->$4M thread.  I know some here are reluctant, taking to heart the MMM story.  How could anyone have more than $1M and not retire?

I'll take a stab at the question. I was waiting to buy a house, after we'd relocated for work. It took close to 4 years before we could afford a house (super HCOL, Bay Area). Now that we have the house, I'm waiting to determine the full impact on our taxes, and our overall budget. Our house is insanely expensive, and the property tax is as well. We thought we had a good sense of our take home, but with the new tax bill, it's unclear what we'll be left with. We have both state tax as well as property tax, and it's tough to get a sense of how this will play out at our income level.

Aside from the financial sense, we needed to sell our rental property to fully fund the stache that will now allow me to retire/go part-time. That house sold in September. There's also the emotional side. My husband has had some uneasiness about me leaving a high paying job without a few details sorted. We've been working through all of those. I'm planning to FIRE in June of 2018. My husband won't FIRE, both based on desire, and because we have sevenish more years until our kids are out of school & we can sell this house.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: JoJoP on December 09, 2017, 09:15:39 PM
Welcome, @PhrugalPhan .  It's great to see this thread really coming to life.  Anyway you want to count it up is fine with us.    I hope they don't start a thread with a higher number because it would split the group. 

Somebody asked up thread about frugal travel, aka the high/low life.  We travel strictly on points, and then try to get out of tourist areas.   Also, destinations can be chosen for economic reasons-- that would mean NOT London, Paris, Rome, Iceland, or Hawaii.   Your dollar will stretch if you get out of the mainstream places.  Asia, Eastern Europe and Latin America are bargains.  Consider a housing swap or AirBnB rental.  If you have access to a basic kitchen, you can eat most of your meals in the room.   

@MaybeBabyMustache , it sounds like a prudent move to wait and see how things shake out after buying the pricey home.  You could give it a year or two before figuring out where best to move the pieces on your financial chessboard.    Is your rental showing a positive cash flow?  Would you have a big capital gain if you sold it? That could wipe out any reason to sell.  Can you keep it and take the slow route, meaning use the profit from the rental to pay down your mortgage, instead of selling it?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on December 10, 2017, 08:02:12 AM
Welcome, @PhrugalPhan .  It's great to see this thread really coming to life.  Anyway you want to count it up is fine with us.    I hope they don't start a thread with a higher number because it would split the group. 

Somebody asked up thread about frugal travel, aka the high/low life.  We travel strictly on points, and then try to get out of tourist areas.   Also, destinations can be chosen for economic reasons-- that would mean NOT London, Paris, Rome, Iceland, or Hawaii.   Your dollar will stretch if you get out of the mainstream places.  Asia, Eastern Europe and Latin America are bargains.  Consider a housing swap or AirBnB rental.  If you have access to a basic kitchen, you can eat most of your meals in the room.   

@MaybeBabyMustache , it sounds like a prudent move to wait and see how things shake out after buying the pricey home.  You could give it a year or two before figuring out where best to move the pieces on your financial chessboard.    Is your rental showing a positive cash flow?  Would you have a big capital gain if you sold it? That could wipe out any reason to sell.  Can you keep it and take the slow route, meaning use the profit from the rental to pay down your mortgage, instead of selling it?

The rental house is sold. :-) We sold it in September & cleared about $700K after taxes. We are still waiting for a final number after 2017 ends. But, that was the estimate our accountant gave us. I've set my FIRE date for June to give me the flexibility of making any last minute adjustments as needed, after taxes.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on December 10, 2017, 08:27:39 AM
^Nice number!^. Sounds like CA or East Coast Real Estate. (Sorry if you've mentioned it before) Hopefully the tax estimates were high and there will be a bit more fun money headed your way,
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: JoJoP on December 10, 2017, 09:03:49 AM


The rental house is sold. :-) We sold it in September & cleared about $700K after taxes. We are still waiting for a final number after 2017 ends. But, that was the estimate our accountant gave us. I've set my FIRE date for June to give me the flexibility of making any last minute adjustments as needed, after taxes.
[/quote]

Nice!  That's a chunk of change.  Are you paying down your mortgage with it? 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on December 10, 2017, 09:04:17 AM
State pensions and city pensions are all susceptible to being cut in a bankruptcy. City of Detroit employees had their pensions lowered due to the bankruptcy. The state of Illinois and the city of Chicago pensions may eventually be cut down in bankruptcy court.

True, the State has visited court a few times trying to cut the benefits paid under PERs.. Each time they have been sent home with their tail between their legs. I think you'r right though, one day they will prevail.

Fortunately for us the Oregon pension is pretty small and the much better protected UK pension is somewhat larger.

Sounds like if the directors tried raiding the pension funds in the UK they would get a one way ticket to prison! They can't do it anyway because the pension funds have to be in a separate financial company.

I'm a bit worried for states/municipalities and their pension plans regarding this new tax plan.  Seems like one intangible effect down might be to place more burden on states/localities.  Might give them more ammunition to go after pensions.  Municipal bonds might also be far more risky after all is said and done.

And my company certainly did not go bankrupt when they eliminated the pension plan for 'younger' workers ( you may be able to guess the company...big tech firm ).  In my opinion it was a blatant $$$ grab from employees to feed share buybacks and such.   As an investor, I do understand 'shareholder value'.  However, for big corporations, the behind the scenes aspects of 'shareholder value' can be extremely ugly.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on December 10, 2017, 09:09:14 AM
Sounds like you've jumped right through the $3M point.  Waiting for someone to start a $3M->$4M thread.  I know some here are reluctant, taking to heart the MMM story.  How could anyone have more than $1M and not retire?

I'll take a stab at the question. I was waiting to buy a house, after we'd relocated for work. It took close to 4 years before we could afford a house (super HCOL, Bay Area). Now that we have the house, I'm waiting to determine the full impact on our taxes, and our overall budget. Our house is insanely expensive, and the property tax is as well. We thought we had a good sense of our take home, but with the new tax bill, it's unclear what we'll be left with. We have both state tax as well as property tax, and it's tough to get a sense of how this will play out at our income level.

Aside from the financial sense, we needed to sell our rental property to fully fund the stache that will now allow me to retire/go part-time. That house sold in September. There's also the emotional side. My husband has had some uneasiness about me leaving a high paying job without a few details sorted. We've been working through all of those. I'm planning to FIRE in June of 2018. My husband won't FIRE, both based on desire, and because we have sevenish more years until our kids are out of school & we can sell this house.


We discussed this above ( I'll forgive you for not reading the entire thread ) :-).  If I were single and/or married with no kids and healthy, then life would be a much different story.  However, we have two kids and one of us has a pre-existing chronic medical condition.   So that changes the outlook tremendously.  If healthcare would at least stabilize ( which it was at least starting to until..you know what happened ), then we could at least plan.  However, there are so many unknowns at so many levels right now that it makes planning extremely tough to do.


Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on December 10, 2017, 09:16:16 AM


The rental house is sold. :-) We sold it in September & cleared about $700K after taxes. We are still waiting for a final number after 2017 ends. But, that was the estimate our accountant gave us. I've set my FIRE date for June to give me the flexibility of making any last minute adjustments as needed, after taxes.

Nice!  That's a chunk of change.  Are you paying down your mortgage with it?
[/quote]

No, we're keeping the money in a mix of investments vs paying it down. There is no tax incentive to pay down the mortgage, and the $700K is part of what will give me the flexibility to leave my job.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: AdrianC on December 10, 2017, 12:30:37 PM
If I were single and/or married with no kids and healthy, then life would be a much different story.  However, we have two kids and one of us has a pre-existing chronic medical condition.   So that changes the outlook tremendously.  If healthcare would at least stabilize ( which it was at least starting to until..you know what happened ), then we could at least plan.  However, there are so many unknowns at so many levels right now that it makes planning extremely tough to do.

Yes. Or you can plan but need a large margin of safety built in.

Three kids here. We can't and don't want to try to live on $40k/year (implied by a stash of $1m).

3X that is more our speed :-)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: JoJoP on December 10, 2017, 06:37:48 PM
  However, we have two kids and one of us has a pre-existing chronic medical condition.   ...   However, there are so many unknowns at so many levels right now that it makes planning extremely tough to do.

Yes. Or you can plan but need a large margin of safety built in.

Three kids here. We can't and don't want to try to live on $40k/year (implied by a stash of $1m).

3X that is more our speed :-)

Ours too!

Our property taxes and health insurance (2 adults, 2 college aged kids) total about $40K a year.  It's ridiculous.  The insurance isn't even the best, but it's good for us and will cover any catastrophic illnesses or injuries without bankrupting us. 

 I view the property taxes as business expenses, of course, because the rentals we own are our business.    I'd love to live with less overhead, but we like the substantial stream of passive income from the rentals and don't see the benefit to selling them off to simplify.  It's not hard to change a faucet or what not.  We are completely hands on with the rentals, management and repairs.   That's our job, and it averages about 10 hours a month.    We have 4 sources of income and that gives us peace of mind. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: PhrugalPhan on December 10, 2017, 08:02:00 PM
Welcome, @PhrugalPhan .  It's great to see this thread really coming to life.  Anyway you want to count it up is fine with us.    I hope they don't start a thread with a higher number because it would split the group.
Thanks.  While I am not going to be "RE" (Retire Early) because I am already 55, I like to think I have done well considering I have never had an above average salary for this area (Northern VA - though for where I grew up this is very high salary), and I was about at $0 N.W. when I turned 36.  Since then I bought and paid off a house, survived 15 months unemployment, and a divorce.   I made a vow to myself not to be poor and take charge of my life back 20 years ago.  It hasn't been easy, but now I can survive most anything. 

If it wasn't for the pesky pension (a.k.a. golden handcuffs) I might retire in a year when the SO does.  Instead I will probably take extra vacations so we can enjoy her first years of her retirement before I head off into the sunset too.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on December 10, 2017, 09:06:22 PM
My parents live on $30K USD per year ($40k AUD) + paid off house in a low cost area. They get by fine 90% of the time, and can afford a couple of short holidays each year, usually a small cruise every year and maybe a short getaway up the coast. They have dinner out with friends from time to time (certainly not every week), have gym memberships (with a pensioner discount) and spoil their grand children a little bit. They are happy enough but certainly wouldnít mind having a little more financial means.

 Occassionally they face some financial stress like when my BIL wrote off their uninsured only car and had no money to pay for a replacement car for them. My parents managed to sell some of their stash to buy a new car, but I could see the financial angst it caused. My sister will prob pay back my parents for the smashed car one day, maybe she already has, I donít know.

But I donít want my parents life. I want to have greater financial freedom. I want to fly to Europe or Noth America for a couple of months at a time if I choose. I want to live in a more expensive location if I choose. Maybe one day Iíll want a fancier car, maybe I want to have season tickets for the theatre, or to drink at fancy city bars from time to time without worrying about the money.

So I have decided I want double the budget of my parents.... this then creates the need to budget for some taxation as well. Iíll try to structure my affairs to minimise taxes, but expect their to be some leakage.

The biggest difference in budget though is housing. I donít want to live where my parents live, despite growing up there. After much debate on the topic DW and I still canít bring ourselves to accepting living the rest of our lives in a small 1 BR apartment or studio in a desirable area. We want a little more space. Not clown house size, but maybe a place that will have a clown purchase price purely due to location. We are setting aside $750,000 USD ($1M AUD) for a home post FIRE.

So I add all our wishes and dreams up, and consider that as I am in my mid 40s and DW is not quite yet 40, it makes sense to us to work a little longer to give us the extra choices later in life.

So here we are on this thread and not already FIRE.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on December 11, 2017, 07:52:26 AM
  However, we have two kids and one of us has a pre-existing chronic medical condition.   ...   However, there are so many unknowns at so many levels right now that it makes planning extremely tough to do.

Yes. Or you can plan but need a large margin of safety built in.

Three kids here. We can't and don't want to try to live on $40k/year (implied by a stash of $1m).

3X that is more our speed :-)

Ours too!

Our property taxes and health insurance (2 adults, 2 college aged kids) total about $40K a year.  It's ridiculous.  The insurance isn't even the best, but it's good for us and will cover any catastrophic illnesses or injuries without bankrupting us. 

 I view the property taxes as business expenses, of course, because the rentals we own are our business.    I'd love to live with less overhead, but we like the substantial stream of passive income from the rentals and don't see the benefit to selling them off to simplify.  It's not hard to change a faucet or what not.  We are completely hands on with the rentals, management and repairs.   That's our job, and it averages about 10 hours a month.    We have 4 sources of income and that gives us peace of mind.


Exactly...and that is why we are on this thread continuing to save instead of being retired.  :-)

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: LessIsLess on December 11, 2017, 07:56:54 AM
The $3m sounds large, but I suspect reaching the milestone will provide little emotional boost.  On the contrary, it may even trigger a quiet emotional drop, when the "reachers" will sigh and utter these words "Is this it?  What a bummer!" 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on December 11, 2017, 10:08:29 AM
The $3m sounds large, but I suspect reaching the milestone will provide little emotional boost.  On the contrary, it may even trigger a quiet emotional drop, when the "reachers" will sigh and utter these words "Is this it?  What a bummer!"
FTFY

It's completely legitimate that some people have need to reach further.

Here's another perspective: We are FI, but DH's mom has Alzheimer's and lives with us, so DH still works. He loves his job. It has incredible benefits and he walks three tenths of a mile to work. We can't travel as we'd planned and he'd go stir crazy with not enough to do around here. He's four years from the top tier of a lovely Defined Benefit Pension, so why not just let things ride? Sure, you can call us "reachers" but there's no shame in making the best of a bad situation.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on December 11, 2017, 10:54:37 AM
The $3m sounds large, but I suspect reaching the milestone will provide little emotional boost.  On the contrary, it may even trigger a quiet emotional drop, when the "reachers" will sigh and utter these words "Is this it?  What a bummer!"
FTFY

It's completely legitimate that some people have need to reach further.

Here's another perspective: We are FI, but DH's mom has Alzheimer's and lives with us, so DH still works. He loves his job. It has incredible benefits and he walks three tenths of a mile to work. We can't travel as we'd planned and he'd go stir crazy with not enough to do around here. He's four years from the top tier of a lovely Defined Benefit Pension, so why not just let things ride? Sure, you can call us "reachers" but there's no shame in making the best of a bad situation.

Yes everyone's situation is unique and different.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on December 11, 2017, 11:40:41 AM
The $3m sounds large, but I suspect reaching the milestone will provide little emotional boost.  On the contrary, it may even trigger a quiet emotional drop, when the "reachers" will sigh and utter these words "Is this it?  What a bummer!"
FTFY

It's completely legitimate that some people have need to reach further.

Here's another perspective: We are FI, but DH's mom has Alzheimer's and lives with us, so DH still works. He loves his job. It has incredible benefits and he walks three tenths of a mile to work. We can't travel as we'd planned and he'd go stir crazy with not enough to do around here. He's four years from the top tier of a lovely Defined Benefit Pension, so why not just let things ride? Sure, you can call us "reachers" but there's no shame in making the best of a bad situation.

Yes everyone's situation is unique and different.
Thanks, David. It's great that you get it. LIL's comment felt unnecessarily condescending, hence my reply.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on December 11, 2017, 12:03:34 PM
Message boards lack the non-written emotional/verbal/auditory cues and it's possible that the poster wasn't intending to be condescending.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Laura33 on December 11, 2017, 12:56:15 PM
The $3m sounds large, but I suspect reaching the milestone will provide little emotional boost.  On the contrary, it may even trigger a quiet emotional drop, when the "reachers" will sigh and utter these words "Is this it?  What a bummer!"

Or, in my case:  "Is this it?  Whew!  Hallelujah!!"

Not because of a specific number on an investment statement.  Because of the massive relief when I realized I didn't need to work, ever again -- that I could walk any time I wanted to; that DH's job could implode, and I could still walk, and we wouldn't need to sell the house and uproot our lives and chase jobs across the country.  Because we've done all of that, more than once, and it was scary, and it sucked, and there's still part of me that can't believe my luck that all that worry and pressure is really gone for good.

IMO, the biggest luxury in life -- the biggest privilege -- is being able to figure out who you want to be without even considering how to support yourself doing it.  It is a privilege I never had growing up; heck, if you'd asked me back then, I'd have told you that kind of freedom existed only in the world of trust funds and silver spoons. 

I still don't know the answer, btw.  But the weight that has been lifted from my shoulders while I'm figuring it out is immense.  And the funny thing is that I didn't even know there was a giant weight on my chest until it was gone and I could suddenly breathe.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on December 11, 2017, 05:42:23 PM
Message boards lack the non-written emotional/verbal/auditory cues and it's possible that the poster wasn't intending to be condescending.
Sure, it's possible.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: soccerluvof4 on December 12, 2017, 05:49:33 AM
Message boards lack the non-written emotional/verbal/auditory cues and it's possible that the poster wasn't intending to be condescending.
Sure, it's possible.



Yes, its all interpretation especially if they don't come back and support their comments. One might interpret it as if they didn't have another challenge to keep them busy like disappointed in a way. And the obvious is , everyone's situation is different. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: JoJoP on December 14, 2017, 09:47:04 PM
The $3m sounds large, but I suspect reaching the milestone will provide little emotional boost.  On the contrary, it may even trigger a quiet emotional drop, when the "reachers" will sigh and utter these words "Is this it?  What a bummer!"

Oh, I don't think so.   I can't imagine anyone who's saved and planned and hit 3M and thinking "What a bummer!"  I do think that one becomes more relaxed about it.  The higher the number gets, though, the more it feels like another slice of cake.   It's good, and then better, and then really good and even better.    I'm still kind of surprised, it's so cool, to have a high NW.  Like, wow, that's  me, squarely in the multi-millionaire ranks no matter how I slice and dice my NW.

I just like to see my NW grow.  It's all good.  There's plenty of leeway now for little ups and downs.    I track my NW now, maybe more than ever thanks to Mint, and the bigger the number gets, the more I realize that we can most likely roll with any punches.  There's no real goal to hit a higher number anymore.  My plan is to just live my life the same way I always have- frugal as a mindset- and if it keeps going up, great.   And, it does keep going up, and I'm not doing anything different at all.   My focus isn't on growing NW, it's on being debt free.  Our debt/NW is less than 25%, maybe more like 20%, but I'm chipping away at it, and it's great to pay off a mortgage, or get one down below 100K, or whatever my current goal happens to be.    All of our debt is mortgage debt, in case you were wondering.  4 mortgages, with one 62Ker squarely pegged to be paid off with our surplus liquidity in the first quarter of 2018.   I paid off 2 in 2017.     If I snowball correctly and with discipline, it will take about 7 years.   The rentals will pay off in about 4 years.  I want to aggressively tackle the rental mortgages, and then will reevaluate for my home.  Our debt is about 50/50 rentals and the house. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on December 27, 2017, 09:42:59 PM
Where the hell y'all been?  Must have been out spending some of that money.  Not one post since 12-14-2018.  Me I've been moving some stuff around.  Been buying VBTLX ans selling some stock funds like VINIX that are up like 25%.  I was fully invested all year and finally getting some bond exposure.  I've also bought some individual stocks that have been dogs.  Mostly GE and AT&T.  GE I bought again today at blood in the street level.  AT&T has already added a 10% increase in price since buying a month ago. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on December 27, 2017, 10:24:56 PM
I got banned from the forum for a month.  Many times I wanted to post, but I stuck as a guest and now, as a true stealth wealth devotee, I'm thinking staying a guest is probably OK.  We had a nice Christmas and look forward to this tax gift in 2018 - my paychecks will be boosted in Feb by the tax cut and then again in March by SS withholding tax being paid in full.  If this is how the US is going to be, Mustachianism is going to be a tough sell.  I enjoy good health and HDHP benefits ($1500 deposit into my HSA on Jan 1), max out with tax deferred contributions (6,900 total) - and I'll just keep doing that for the next 5 - 10 years.  If this favorable income tax treatment is reversed or health insurance market stabilizes, maybe I'll get more excited about retirement sub-55 yo, but right now it's a minefield!  I know I can navigate it for 10 years (55 - 65yo), but much more than that takes a leap of faith.

I'll probably die with way too much money, but I also enjoy sleeping with plenty of blankets in the cold as opposed to stretching them over me and hoping to sleep at all.  And I also have my kids that I want to enjoy sharing the bounty with (responsibly).
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on December 28, 2017, 07:15:34 AM
Glad you're back from the ban.  We've had a banner year no doubt.  I've taken some profits and reduced risk a bit.  I'm close to 20 percent bonds now.  I'm also likely to die with too much money, probably going to be a common occurrence of the members on this thread.   Unless I just get totally fed up one day I'm more likely extending FIRE to 2020.  I turn 50 in 2018, I'm not working past 2023 at 55 since that's offical retirement time with my company and there are benefits awarded upon that date.  With 6 weeks vacation and a week of paid personal time, I'll get by for now.   Good luck in 2018 to you all.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on December 28, 2017, 08:21:42 AM
I just figured that people were waiting for the month and year to end. I expect we'll pick up again soon, with new members added to the fold.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: AdrianC on December 29, 2017, 09:18:50 AM
Where the hell y'all been?  Must have been out spending some of that money.

Nah! We've been counting it...

https://youtu.be/pneBKFjxInQ

It's been a good year. NW up 20%.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on December 29, 2017, 01:45:14 PM
Up 18% for 2017...... despite property prices dropping 5% in the 2nd half of the year. I expect another 5% to come off H1 2018, before the market starts to thaw a little. Hopefully stocks will continue to perform.

Looking forward to passing $3M AUD in 2018..... yes itís only 2.3M USD, but still a nice round number to shoot for nine the less (before June maybe 🤞).
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: wannabe-stache on January 02, 2018, 01:40:16 PM
i wasn't tracking NW until May 2017 and it's up an unreal amount in that time frame.  started at $2.1M, ended the year at $2.8M.

With some year end bonus payments expected this month, at this pace (putting aside market volatility) i would bet anything we're at $3.0M by mid Feb if not sooner. it's unreal how it grows even from day to day.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on January 02, 2018, 02:21:46 PM
Ended the year at 2.2M total..including paid-off house.  1.9M in investable assets.  Some big gains in the stock trading account helped accelerate what was already a great year.  Not too shabby!



Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on January 02, 2018, 07:35:02 PM
We're up 340K for the year and 1.9M invested, also made $1500 in crypto, sold last week.  Had more fun there than the 340k
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: wannabe-stache on January 10, 2018, 03:13:18 PM
One of the interesting things i have noticed as we have approached the $3M mark: what really is a lot of $ doesn't seem like it is.

I am referring to the fact that i open personal capital, see that our net worth is $2.904M and think "wow we are so close".  In reality, we are $96,000 shy of $3M.  $96K!

That's a lot of money in absolute terms.  At least to me.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on January 10, 2018, 03:43:56 PM
Wife and I discussed it last night.  We're 1.91M according to Mint.  I made the comment of only being 90k from 2M.  Shouldn't be but a few months now to another million I said.  Like it's a small thing.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Melisande on January 10, 2018, 07:30:58 PM
Just did a quarterly check on the good olí net worth and it looks like we are now in the 2k-3k race. Total net worth now comes to $2,228,000 with most of that in investments & cash ó only $225,000 in home equity.

I told my husband the good news. His reaction? So, I can retire now? Well, yeah, I said. But he was just joking. He wants to keep working. So, it looks like weíll be at $3k at some point not too far down the line.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on January 10, 2018, 11:46:48 PM
Just did a quarterly check on the good olí net worth and it looks like we are now in the 2k-3k race. Total net worth now comes to $x with most of that in investments & cash ó only $225,000 in home equity.

I told my husband the good news. His reaction? So, I can retire now? Well, yeah, I said. But he was just joking. He wants to keep working. So, it looks like weíll be at $3k at some point not too far down the line.

Why are rich people so dumb?  'k' is, and always has been since 'Roman' times = 1,000.  But yes, you have lots of money.  Looks like there is a little cornfusion on how to invest and what risk tells you is optimal - but we all live for the day and life is good.

[OMG why am I posting and telling people my opinion?  If I don't respond going forward, I've probably been banned by ARS again]
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on January 11, 2018, 12:02:28 AM
Just did a quarterly check on the good olí net worth and it looks like we are now in the 2k-3k race. Total net worth now comes to $x with most of that in investments & cash ó only $225,000 in home equity.

I told my husband the good news. His reaction? So, I can retire now? Well, yeah, I said. But he was just joking. He wants to keep working. So, it looks like weíll be at $3k at some point not too far down the line.

Why are rich people so dumb?  'k' is, and always has been since 'Roman' times = 1,000.  But yes, you have lots of money.  Looks like there is a little cornfusion on how to invest and what risk tells you is optimal - but we all live for the day and life is good.

[OMG why am I posting and telling people my opinion?  If I don't respond going forward, I've probably been banned by ARS again]

Target on your back EV.. They way I look at it is..I can afford to be dumb.. In fact the richer I get the dumber I become..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on January 11, 2018, 12:21:50 AM
Just did a quarterly check on the good olí net worth and it looks like we are now in the 2k-3k race. Total net worth now comes to $x with most of that in investments & cash ó only $225,000 in home equity.

I told my husband the good news. His reaction? So, I can retire now? Well, yeah, I said. But he was just joking. He wants to keep working. So, it looks like weíll be at $3k at some point not too far down the line.

Why are rich people so dumb?  'k' is, and always has been since 'Roman' times = 1,000.  But yes, you have lots of money.  Looks like there is a little cornfusion on how to invest and what risk tells you is optimal - but we all live for the day and life is good.

[OMG why am I posting and telling people my opinion?  If I don't respond going forward, I've probably been banned by ARS again]

Target on your back EV.. They way I look at it is..I can afford to be dumb.. In fact the richer I get the dumber I become..:)

Yup, even when I'm banned permanently from the forum for not being whatever Mustachianism means, I'll still be FI beyond my wildest dreams - I just will have to take it over to many of the other fora that are out there.  Reddit has a pretty cool system.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Melisande on January 11, 2018, 04:14:08 AM
Just did a quarterly check on the good olí net worth and it looks like we are now in the 2k-3k race. Total net worth now comes to $x with most of that in investments & cash ó only $225,000 in home equity.

I told my husband the good news. His reaction? So, I can retire now? Well, yeah, I said. But he was just joking. He wants to keep working. So, it looks like weíll be at $3k at some point not too far down the line.

Why are rich people so dumb?  'k' is, and always has been since 'Roman' times = 1,000.  But yes, you have lots of money.  Looks like there is a little cornfusion on how to invest and what risk tells you is optimal - but we all live for the day and life is good.

[OMG why am I posting and telling people my opinion?  If I don't respond going forward, I've probably been banned by ARS again]

Hey, I know what K means and weíre not dumb. Just an honest screw-up. Posting too late and distracted. Also, had just calculated something using Kís, so stuck in my mind.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on January 11, 2018, 04:30:29 AM
Just did a quarterly check on the good olí net worth and it looks like we are now in the 2k-3k race. Total net worth now comes to $x with most of that in investments & cash ó only $225,000 in home equity.

I told my husband the good news. His reaction? So, I can retire now? Well, yeah, I said. But he was just joking. He wants to keep working. So, it looks like weíll be at $3k at some point not too far down the line.

Why are rich people so dumb?  'k' is, and always has been since 'Roman' times = 1,000.  But yes, you have lots of money.  Looks like there is a little cornfusion on how to invest and what risk tells you is optimal - but we all live for the day and life is good.

[OMG why am I posting and telling people my opinion?  If I don't respond going forward, I've probably been banned by ARS again]

Hey, I know what K means and weíre not dumb. Just an honest screw-up. Posting too late and distracted. Also, had just calculated something using Kís, so stuck in my mind.
Had EV2020 tossed an "lol" or a couple of emojis in, it might have been more obvious that it was a joke. Nobody in this club is dumb. It's a rule. 😄
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on January 11, 2018, 04:36:31 AM
One of the interesting things i have noticed as we have approached the $3M mark: what really is a lot of $ doesn't seem like it is.

I am referring to the fact that i open personal capital, see that our net worth is $2.904M and think "wow we are so close".  In reality, we are $96,000 shy of $3M.  $96K!

That's a lot of money in absolute terms.  At least to me.
Damn straight. My first career job paid the princely (To me. At the time. A long, long time ago...) sum of $13k per year. Now, our investments can make that in a month! This shit really, really does work! Amazing!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on January 11, 2018, 06:16:03 AM

[/quote]
Had EV2020 tossed an "lol" or a couple of emojis in, it might have been more obvious that it was a joke. Nobody in this club is dumb. It's a rule. 😄
[/quote]

You don't know this dumb Cajun.  I've always been dumb, earlier in life I'd convinced myself I was smart.  Now that I'm older, I realize I fooled myself.  The formula for getting rich slowly is an easy one.  Smart people can get rich quick.  For those like me, you figure out a simple plan and stick to it for decades.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: AdrianC on January 11, 2018, 08:44:24 AM
Hey, I know what K means and weíre not dumb. Just an honest screw-up. Posting too late and distracted. Also, had just calculated something using Kís, so stuck in my mind.

I thought you were just being coy. Congrats.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on January 11, 2018, 11:50:27 AM
I'm lumping myself into the dumb and rich category, wasn't singling anyone out!  Also, acting dumb can be an awfully effective strategy - it got a whole lot more chatter than if you'd used M's.

I also wondered if you were being 'modest' / humble.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on January 11, 2018, 12:23:20 PM
Ms are grossly overused in this forum anyways...... MMM this, MMM that...

 but if you had just finished writing something with 3 Ks instead of 3 Ms we might not only have EV2020 facing censorship.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on January 11, 2018, 05:48:14 PM
Here we are millionaires arguing K and M's.  I bet we all had days we sweated the utility bill or rent.  Seems so irrelevant now.  I'm hanging out at the New Orleans yacht club.   Rich people shit.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on January 11, 2018, 10:09:36 PM
After all these comments about how much everyone's accounts are up of late, I decided to pay a little attention to our account balances today. Our investment accounts grew by more than DH grossed in 2017, and we did not add any new money to them. The new money went into DH's 401k, which also did quite nicely. Crazy good mustachian fun!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on January 11, 2018, 11:43:58 PM
As of the close today..

Investments $2,003,400

Pensions $504,000

Paid off house approx $400,000

I think by any measure we are in this pool, at least for now..:)

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: JoJoP on January 12, 2018, 12:04:20 AM
Where the hell y'all been?  Must have been out spending some of that money.  Not one post since 12-14-2018.  Me I've been moving some stuff around.  Been buying VBTLX ans selling some stock funds like VINIX that are up like 25%.  I was fully invested all year and finally getting some bond exposure.  I've also bought some individual stocks that have been dogs.  Mostly GE and AT&T.  GE I bought again today at blood in the street level.  AT&T has already added a 10% increase in price since buying a month ago.

Yup!  Out spending some of that money and being with the ones we love.  Our family spent the holidays together in Europe.  It was one of the best Christmases and New Years we've ever had.  A real change of pace.  We want to build memories, and this was a home run.  The parents (me/DH) came home and the kids are still there, getting themselves around with no parental help or funds, finding their way to hostels, etc. 

Today is the first day I had a chance to peek at the thread.  I'm glad to see so many new posts.  I also took a look at Mint, for my 2018.  My updates are very outdated, and things are more rosy than it shows.  Some passwords have changed, a few accounts were never added, etc.  It's a good tool for general tracking.  FWIW, my AT&T stock is one of the bigger lugs in my stock portfolio.   Glad it worked for you with 10% up.   
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on January 12, 2018, 08:15:44 AM
Hey Jill P.  Glad you had such wonderful family time.  That's really what it's all for right?  Yep, you're right AT&T as well as GE were pretty bad in 2017.  I'd not owned them till December at the very bottom.   They are both up nicely for me now.  I did go to about 15% in VBTLX.  I've never owned bond's or bond funds in my life.  That's where I'm losing money.  JL Collins says it helps smooth the ride, we will see.  Even with my dumb move into some bonds we are still up 20k for the year.  Not sure how much further the market can push, we'll enjoy it while it does.  Glad to see ya back.  Happy Mardi Gras.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: farmecologist on January 12, 2018, 11:20:50 AM
Hey Jill P.  Glad you had such wonderful family time.  That's really what it's all for right?  Yep, you're right AT&T as well as GE were pretty bad in 2017.  I'd not owned them till December at the very bottom.   They are both up nicely for me now.  I did go to about 15% in VBTLX.  I've never owned bond's or bond funds in my life.  That's where I'm losing money.  JL Collins says it helps smooth the ride, we will see.  Even with my dumb move into some bonds we are still up 20k for the year.  Not sure how much further the market can push, we'll enjoy it while it does.  Glad to see ya back.  Happy Mardi Gras.

Interesting about VBTLX.  I just cashed out some very old mutual funds that I've had for years.  Thought it was 'time'.  Plan is to move the proceeds to our taxable brokerage account where we already have a sizeable balance due to some successful 'side gig' stock trading.  I'm struggling a bit on what to do with these funds.  I'm sure much of them will end up back in equities at some point though..however, not 100%. 


 

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: PhrugalPhan on January 13, 2018, 08:06:17 AM
As of the close today..

Investments $2,003,400

Pensions $504,000

Paid off house approx $400,000

I think by any measure we are in this pool, at least for now..:)

As of close yesterday my GF has her TSP over $1 Mil

My investments are just under $900,000

And our two pensions combined are worth over $1 Mil as well

Paid off house approx. $350,000

The day I can walk out with pension in hand can't come soon enough.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Car Jack on January 13, 2018, 03:05:08 PM
With the runup Friday and my adds to taxable, I clicked over $2.3M in investments.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: JoJoP on January 13, 2018, 09:42:23 PM
I stayed up late last night doing math.   After I did the math, I realized I've got to come up with a better plan.
 
 I ran some snow ball numbers... if it takes us 8 years to pay off the remaining 600K+ in debt by snowballing 4 remaining loans at an 8K payment per month, I'll still be paying almost $100K in interest over those 8 years.   The interest rate on my real estate property loans is costing me $22K in the next 12 months.  $22K wasted in 2018!  Sacrilege!! 

I've got to face this challenge head on.  I woke up and sent a $5K payment to one of the loans.   I'm waiting for a big check to arrive, and I have earmarked a chunk of change to the debt reduction.  That will speed up the snowball and I'm going to run the numbers again, just as soon as I know the actual figure.   I am sick and tired of paying the banks my hard earned money. 
Disclaimer:  I know there are differing opinions about paying off mortgages vs. stock portfolio investments.  I listen closely to the reasoning on both sides.  Our 4 loans are not all low interest fixed, so I've got more incentive.  Since most of our wealth is from/in real estate, I'm in the "pay off the mortgage, don't put it in the stock market" camp. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on January 13, 2018, 11:53:42 PM
I stayed up late last night doing math.   After I did the math, I realized I've got to come up with a better plan.
 
 I ran some snow ball numbers... if it takes us 8 years to pay off the remaining 600K+ in debt by snowballing 4 remaining loans at an 8K payment per month, I'll still be paying almost $100K in interest over those 8 years.   The interest rate on my real estate property loans is costing me $22K in the next 12 months.  $22K wasted in 2018!  Sacrilege!! 

I've got to face this challenge head on.  I woke up and sent a $5K payment to one of the loans.   I'm waiting for a big check to arrive, and I have earmarked a chunk of change to the debt reduction.  That will speed up the snowball and I'm going to run the numbers again, just as soon as I know the actual figure.   I am sick and tired of paying the banks my hard earned money. 
Disclaimer:  I know there are differing opinions about paying off mortgages vs. stock portfolio investments.  I listen closely to the reasoning on both sides.  Our 4 loans are not all low interest fixed, so I've got more incentive.  Since most of our wealth is from/in real estate, I'm in the "pay off the mortgage, don't put it in the stock market" camp.

There are mathematical equations which state that with current low interest mortage debt you are better off paying the minimum and investing the difference.   Great theory.  Those of us who are older faced much higher interest rates on our mortgages.   My mortgage was financed at 8.5% fixed.  Early payments made sense.  Whatever the current blend of which school of thought yields the most, one fact remains.  We have NW over 2 million on this thread.  Something worked.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: PhrugalPhan on January 14, 2018, 07:33:57 AM
There are mathematical equations which state that with current low interest mortgage debt you are better off paying the minimum and investing the difference.   Great theory.  Those of us who are older faced much higher interest rates on our mortgages.   My mortgage was financed at 8.5% fixed.  Early payments made sense.  Whatever the current blend of which school of thought yields the most, one fact remains.  We have NW over 2 million on this thread.  Something worked.
Exactly.  I split the difference with my investments / payments as I had 6.75% fixed, and those extra principle payments from 2003-08 didn't melt away when the market went south 08-09 like my investments did.  For me being mortgage free since 2011 has been fabulous.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: honeyfill on January 26, 2018, 03:09:33 PM
Good news, I broke the 2.5M barrier this month.   Bad news , the kitchen remodel is costing more than I thought and I  will drop back below 2.5M.  Since I'll still be  worth more than I was Jan 1, You might say I got the kitchen for free. (Just kidding, but at least I'm taking some money off the table just in case the market tanks!)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: dogboyslim on January 26, 2018, 03:27:35 PM
$83k up in January, $324k increase last year.  Both of these numbers exclude any contributions on my part.  I still fear the phrase what goes up, must come down.

We are just over 2 if I include property.

Invested Assets 1.77, Home 1: 380k, Home 2: 450k: Home Debt: 380k = 2.22 M.  We are in the middle of moving from home 1 to home 2 due to a relocation to a more costly area.  Once that happens, we will drop 20k of home debt and put the rest of the equity into invested assets and then pay off the mortgage over time.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: bluebelle on January 26, 2018, 04:48:24 PM
I'm having a hard time deciding if I belong in this group....debated posting for a while now, written and deleted a few posts....but what the heck, you sound like my peeps....stealth wealth, and a desire to have a nice buffer, live conservatively but still have some luxuries.

I've been sitting here trying to not laugh out loud with the absurdity of saying we ONLY have 1.73M in investible assets, so I don't yet belong in this group.....but if I include DH DB pension, and do back of the napkin math of the commuted value of that pension, we're "allowed" in this group.  Add in the home value in our ridiculous market, we actually surpass it.  But I don't count our home value because our retirement plan is to swap this house for a lakefront home and hike and fish to our hearts content.  We expect to break even between the two homes - it was a conscious decision to do so, and not downsize.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on January 26, 2018, 06:13:52 PM
I'm having a hard time deciding if I belong in this group....debated posting for a while now, written and deleted a few posts....but what the heck, you sound like my peeps....stealth wealth, and a desire to have a nice buffer, live conservatively but still have some luxuries.

I've been sitting here trying to not laugh out loud with the absurdity of saying we ONLY have 1.73M in investible assets, so I don't yet belong in this group.....but if I include DH DB pension, and do back of the napkin math of the commuted value of that pension, we're "allowed" in this group.  Add in the home value in our ridiculous market, we actually surpass it.  But I don't count our home value because our retirement plan is to swap this house for a lakefront home and hike and fish to our hearts content.  We expect to break even between the two homes - it was a conscious decision to do so, and not downsize.

I wrestled with that too.. I didn't have to wrestle long though...:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on January 26, 2018, 07:55:45 PM
Ha! I just checked balances on our two main accounts. Gulp. $1.2M! Paid-for primary home is worth $1.4M, sez Zillow, which I know from recent comps to be low. I think I'll stop looking now. If I check any more balances, I'm going to find myself pushed right out of this nice club.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on January 27, 2018, 05:30:53 AM
Only $31K to go to 2000K.  Going to keep pushing.  Took a week long vacation and spent a little money.   Felt good spreading it around some.   
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on January 27, 2018, 09:16:51 AM
At this point, and whilst youíre still working, spending a little cash on a weeks vacation wonít even be felt at the bank, but will make a big difference as to how you feel about fronting up to the office a little longer.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Koogie on January 27, 2018, 12:57:45 PM
At this point, and whilst youíre still working, spending a little cash on a weeks vacation wonít even be felt at the bank, but will make a big difference as to how you feel about fronting up to the office a little longer.

+1

we took 9 weeks vacation last year.  gonna try and ramp it up to 12 this year (quite a few might be staycations).    it makes semi-retirement bearable and even enjoyable.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Exflyboy on January 27, 2018, 01:26:44 PM
I can testify that learning to spend after decades of "saving everything" can be quite the challenge.

We did 8 weeks on the road travelling through SE Asia in 2016 and probably spent $5k or so.. I just had to clench my teeth and type in my CC numbers..

Of course the money is not even measurable compared to our net worth, but you have to do it a few times to feel comfortable.

This year we are going to Poland, Slovenia and Croatia for 6 weeks or so..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: AdrianC on January 27, 2018, 06:13:30 PM
I think I'll stop looking now. If I check any more balances, I'm going to find myself pushed right out of this nice club.

I took the club name to be ďRace from $2M to $3M+Ē.

If so youíre safe. Itís been a crazy year already.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on January 27, 2018, 06:16:01 PM
We are past $3M with the crazy market, but plan to invest a bunch in a remodel, which may drop our cash flow, but positively increase our house value. So . . . I'll keep coming back & consider this my "home". I have no idea how property values in the bay area will continue to grow/drop/stabilize. After we pay for this remodel, we will do other facepunch worthy things like potentially buying a rental property in Hawaii. So, there's that.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on January 27, 2018, 10:31:04 PM
Alright, we have lots of contenders - who's going to start the 'Race from $3M to $4M' thread?  The nice thing about finance is that doubling means you go from 1M to 2M in the same time as 2M to 4M, so getting from 2M to 3M is relatively quick in a rising market.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: CoffeeR on January 28, 2018, 01:46:04 AM
Alright, we have lots of contenders - who's going to start the 'Race from $3M to $4M' thread?  The nice thing about finance is that doubling means you go from 1M to 2M in the same time as 2M to 4M, so getting from 2M to 3M is relatively quick in a rising market.
Better would be to change the title of this thread to to "Race from $2M to $3M+".
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on January 28, 2018, 05:52:16 AM
Bluerunner made the 2 to 4 thread.   Should have made the 3 to 4.  We've got the 2 to 3. Maybe we just start counting by 2s from here.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on January 28, 2018, 08:10:19 AM
Alright, we have lots of contenders - who's going to start the 'Race from $3M to $4M' thread?  The nice thing about finance is that doubling means you go from 1M to 2M in the same time as 2M to 4M, so getting from 2M to 3M is relatively quick in a rising market.

I have a sneaking suspicion that my 3rd will take a lot longer than the 2nd, even if I kept working.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: JoJoP on January 28, 2018, 10:08:23 AM
Alright, we have lots of contenders - who's going to start the 'Race from $3M to $4M' thread?  The nice thing about finance is that doubling means you go from 1M to 2M in the same time as 2M to 4M, so getting from 2M to 3M is relatively quick in a rising market.
Better would be to change the title of this thread to to "Race from $2M to $3M+".

I agree.  Just add the plus sign and be done with it.  Does the OP agree?

 I'm not sure why another, bigger race thread was started.  Seeing the new posters join this thread is amazing.  Those are the posts I enjoy reading.   This thread has taken off recently.   We are examples of success.  I like the discussions about who's making what moves, such as paying off houses, buying in Hawaii, where to put the investments now.  I hope that the members of this thread can provide great advise to those who aspire to be here, rather than compete for an eve higher finish line.   Splitting the thread would dilute the discussions.   I'm not excited about hanging out in ever bigger threads.   As the guys say, E-peen comparisons aren't needed.   We're here, at the finish line, if we're in this thread.   Any 'stache over 2M is enough, and the journey for financial independence can be considered achieved. 

IMO, We're not racing any more, more like sauntering along.  Many of us here have enjoyed 20-30 years of financial growth, and are exactly where the young Mustachians will end up in the same time frame.  The frugal habits of a lifetime have come to fruition, and the money just makes itself.   Isn't that the whole point of being a Mustachian?   My NW has doubled in the past 10 years.  It's likely to keep rising, since my patterns aren't changing.   I'm older, wiser, and less risk adverse (not that I ever was particularly risk adverse).  A couple of easy moves, like moving chess pieces on the chess board, increased my monthly passive cash flow by $2500.  A couple more moves, and I reduced my outflow by over $3K a month.  I paid off a bunch of debt that I mentioned upthread. That's a net positive of $5500 a month.  I was broke 25 years ago, thus, living proof of Mustachian style success.   I hope my stories, our stories, are inspiring anyone dropping by to read these posts and wanting to join this race.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on January 28, 2018, 12:01:51 PM
Its clear that unless you have a huge salary that we really arn't doing anything to make more money.. its happening by itself at this point.

So i guess calling it a "race" is a bit nonsenical. Of course there are people for whom $2m or $3M really is not enough, but they have lifestyles that are beyond normal Mustashianism.

Assuming normal rates of return on the stock market (10% ish), then with a 100% stock portfolio we can expect to double our money in about 7 years.

So want another million $ and currently have $2m.. simply wait about 4 years and have a savings rate of zero. Of course, many of us are now FIRED and don't have 100% stocks, plus have some degree of negative savings rate so increases to the next milestone will vary.

I am also concerned at the enthusiasm shown over the rapid stock market rise. I could easily see at 20% pullback in the near future and possibly more. Thats not a problem.. just keep rebalancing or increase one stock asset allocation when the market tanks and everybody here will do very well... Just don't get married to these high numbers.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on January 28, 2018, 10:53:11 PM
I certainly donít expect to be wobbled by a correction. When I fire in 11-17 months my net worth will be split
 - Home.                      27% - not exposed to stock market (could always buy cheaper if needed)
 - investment property   20% - not exposed to stock market
  - indexed pension.       10% - not exposed to the stock market
 - Cash and fixed interest 10% - not exposed to stock market
 - Stocks.                       33%

So, a 20% correction in stocks will represent a 6% drop in my net worth. Yawn.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on January 29, 2018, 12:53:22 AM
I certainly donít expect to be wobbled by a correction. When I fire in 11-17 months my net worth will be split
 - Home.                      27% - not exposed to stock market (could always buy cheaper if needed)
 - investment property   20% - not exposed to stock market
  - indexed pension.       10% - not exposed to the stock market
 - Cash and fixed interest 10% - not exposed to stock market
 - Stocks.                       33%

So, a 20% correction in stocks will represent a 6% drop in my net worth. Yawn.
That's a great way to look at it! Our profile is similar to yours. This perspective is a great way to keep calm when the next slide occurs.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Koogie on January 29, 2018, 07:18:27 AM
I certainly donít expect to be wobbled by a correction. When I fire in 11-17 months my net worth will be split
 - Home.                      27% - not exposed to stock market (could always buy cheaper if needed)
 - investment property   20% - not exposed to stock market
  - indexed pension.       10% - not exposed to the stock market
 - Cash and fixed interest 10% - not exposed to stock market
 - Stocks.                       33%

So, a 20% correction in stocks will represent a 6% drop in my net worth. Yawn.

Not debating your conclusions but do you really think your pension isn't exposed to the stock market ?   
This is a misconception many people have.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on January 29, 2018, 09:46:47 AM
I certainly donít expect to be wobbled by a correction. When I fire in 11-17 months my net worth will be split
 - Home.                      27% - not exposed to stock market (could always buy cheaper if needed)
 - investment property   20% - not exposed to stock market
  - indexed pension.       10% - not exposed to the stock market
 - Cash and fixed interest 10% - not exposed to stock market
 - Stocks.                       33%

So, a 20% correction in stocks will represent a 6% drop in my net worth. Yawn.

Not debating your conclusions but do you really think your pension isn't exposed to the stock market ?   
This is a misconception many people have.

I feel very comfortable with my Australian Federal Government Pension. Australia remains one of 10 or so countries with a AAA credit rating. My pension is far more secure than any other part of my stash.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on January 29, 2018, 02:47:00 PM
The advantage of federal pensions, from a central government, is that they can be backed up by debt obligations. The debt obligations or treasuries are highly desired if we enter another recession.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Koogie on January 29, 2018, 04:55:10 PM
I feel very comfortable with my Australian Federal Government Pension. Australia remains one of 10 or so countries with a AAA credit rating. My pension is far more secure than any other part of my stash.

The point was, what you said is factually incorrect. All pensions invest in equities. So, by definition they cannot be "not exposed to the stock market" as you said.

Whether they are secure or not is something else entirely.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on January 29, 2018, 07:15:34 PM
I feel very comfortable with my Australian Federal Government Pension. Australia remains one of 10 or so countries with a AAA credit rating. My pension is far more secure than any other part of my stash.

The point was, what you said is factually incorrect. All pensions invest in equities. So, by definition they cannot be "not exposed to the stock market" as you said.

Whether they are secure or not is something else entirely.

I understand your point, but not really relevant to what I was saying.

My point was that a major stock market correction is not likely (extremely unlikely) to have any impact on the future cash flows I will enjoy from my pension and I will continue to sleep well at night.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: FOBStash on January 30, 2018, 06:34:20 PM
So stoked to join this thread! Hoping to get to $2.5M as our major FIRE milestone and then $2.5M with a paid off house. Then we will assess going FIRE. We enjoy our jobs for now so no burning need to quit.

Still a ways out since we just hit $2M at the start of the year.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on January 30, 2018, 08:28:02 PM
I guess I can sort of join this thread.
My invested assets and cash in bank account is about $1,635,000 plus about $385,000 of equity in my home, which combined kicks me just above $2 million.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: JoJoP on January 31, 2018, 11:17:32 AM
Welcome DaveAnnArbor and FOBstash!  Great to have you in the thread. 


So here's an interesting link to a bunch of interviews with Millionaires.  https://esimoney.com/millionaire-interview-37/

I haven't had time to read more than a handful of the stories, but what strikes me is the incredibly HUGE income that many of them have.   That said, I don't think they are MMM lifestyles, or some of the ones I've read about would have far more wealth.  Most of them have completely different profiles than mine.  I would consider my path to be more lower income, frugal savings, and high motivation from an early age.   Perhaps these are just your more run of the MILLionaires-- high income, high spending, yet good long term goals and planning that come to fruition.  The interview I just linked, #37, parallels my path in one way:  Real estate investments (he has 6), with $$ obtained from leveraging his personal residence.    I think he makes a valid point, also, that sometimes life gets in the way of our financial goals, and you have to sell something that would be better left alone.   Also, he points out the magic of time in fortune building. 

What do you think of these interviews?  Any comments or observations?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on January 31, 2018, 08:06:26 PM
I agree about the amount of time makes a huge difference in accumulating assets, although I guess the point of this website is that you can reduce that time drastically through ultra -frugality.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Car Jack on February 01, 2018, 07:59:45 AM


So i guess calling it a "race" is a bit nonsenical. Of course there are people for whom $2m or $3M really is not enough, but they have lifestyles that are beyond normal Mustashianism.


Or perhaps it's because of life circumstances.  Let's see....a child with a disability that means that an appropriate school costs $56k a year and takes the spouse's entire day because it's a long drive every day, so she can't work.....and another kid in private college because the parents believe in providing the best education they can....... 

I understand that the Boglehead way seems to be "Send the damn kid to community college until he can pay his own way through school because I want to retire and I don't like hip hop and those man buns and what the hell is it with all the tatoos......the kid wasn't even in the marines?".  It ain't everyone's way.  Some of us care about our kids and are willing to pay for them to have opportunities.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on February 01, 2018, 08:16:55 AM
I would say the Boglehead way is to send the kid to an expensive private college. Many on Bogleheads aspire to retire on many millions of dollars if not tens of millions.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Fomerly known as something on February 01, 2018, 05:07:01 PM
Welcome DaveAnnArbor and FOBstash!  Great to have you in the thread. 


So here's an interesting link to a bunch of interviews with Millionaires.  https://esimoney.com/millionaire-interview-37/

I haven't had time to read more than a handful of the stories, but what strikes me is the incredibly HUGE income that many of them have.   That said, I don't think they are MMM lifestyles, or some of the ones I've read about would have far more wealth.  Most of them have completely different profiles than mine.  I would consider my path to be more lower income, frugal savings, and high motivation from an early age.   Perhaps these are just your more run of the MILLionaires-- high income, high spending, yet good long term goals and planning that come to fruition.  The interview I just linked, #37, parallels my path in one way:  Real estate investments (he has 6), with $$ obtained from leveraging his personal residence.    I think he makes a valid point, also, that sometimes life gets in the way of our financial goals, and you have to sell something that would be better left alone.   Also, he points out the magic of time in fortune building. 

What do you think of these interviews?  Any comments or observations?

I have a hard time reading all the way through most of them.  I kind of see the demographics and think this is someone "not like me."  I think the higher incomes and the OK NW just doesn't inspire me like it could to others.  I guess I should maybe volunteer to be one of them to try to inspire others not like those.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on February 02, 2018, 10:20:09 AM
I guess I can sort of join this thread.
My invested assets and cash in bank account is about $1,635,000 plus about $385,000 of equity in my home, which combined kicks me just above $2 million.
I totally count our primary house. We paid cash for it and it's now worth over $1.4M, so why not? There are other assets that I don't count (rental properties, defined benefit pension) mostly because I'm too lazy to look them up. This is definitely not a race, it's more like a game of horseshoes. But then, that doesn't sound like much of a gauntlet, does it?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: wannabe-stache on February 02, 2018, 10:58:02 AM
i know this is the wrong forum for this but happy to say that we're at the $2.93M mark and i just paid off the rest of our $48k mortgage.

should free up some cash to put into the market going forward.

it will be interesting to see what happens with said market, btw...
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on February 06, 2018, 02:41:41 AM
So.... which camp are you in:

A. The bigger you are the harder you fall. Ie: this small blip in the market set you back a 6 figure sum which is more than 3 or 4% of you net worth; or

B. As you are wealthy and properly diversified this small blip cost you far less than the market movement, like maybe only 1%; or

C. You knew the top was in, shorted the market, made an absolute killing and grew your stash even to a more enviable number??
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on February 06, 2018, 03:12:26 AM
1.5 Tesla drop for me.. I think our investments are slightly under $2m.. but still have $0.5m in pension valuation and at a guess $0.4 or 0.5 in house.

Don't think the baliffs are showing up just yet..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on February 06, 2018, 07:02:40 AM
So.... which camp are you in:

A. The bigger you are the harder you fall. Ie: this small blip in the market set you back a 6 figure sum which is more than 3 or 4% of you net worth; or

B. As you are wealthy and properly diversified this small blip cost you far less than the market movement, like maybe only 1%; or

C. You knew the top was in, shorted the market, made an absolute killing and grew your stash even to a more enviable number??

Somewhere between. I'd happened to pull a bunch out (not because of C, although I suspected, as many of us did) because we are planning to use cash for a remodel. I certainly am also down significantly in our main retirement account as well, so some of A & C.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: markbike528CBX on February 06, 2018, 07:09:36 AM
So.... which camp are you in:

A. The bigger you are the harder you fall. Ie: this small blip in the market set you back a 6 figure sum which is more than 3 or 4% of you net worth; or

B. As you are wealthy and properly diversified this small blip cost you far less than the market movement, like maybe only 1%; or

C. You knew the top was in, shorted the market, made an absolute killing and grew your stash even to a more enviable number??
.

A and 0.01*C.  Almost got the peak when I sold stocks to finish off the house mortgage.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: honeyfill on February 06, 2018, 07:23:45 AM
So.... which camp are you in:

A. The bigger you are the harder you fall. Ie: this small blip in the market set you back a 6 figure sum which is more than 3 or 4% of you net worth; or

B. As you are wealthy and properly diversified this small blip cost you far less than the market movement, like maybe only 1%; or

C. You knew the top was in, shorted the market, made an absolute killing and grew your stash even to a more enviable number??

Mostly A and a little bit of C.  I took out about 1/2 what I needed for the kitchen remodel a week ago but told my self to wait a couple of weeks to take out the rest.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Car Jack on February 06, 2018, 08:00:18 AM
B.

A 50/50 asset allocation helps with reducing volatility.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: farmecologist on February 06, 2018, 08:47:00 AM
So.... which camp are you in:

A. The bigger you are the harder you fall. Ie: this small blip in the market set you back a 6 figure sum which is more than 3 or 4% of you net worth; or

B. As you are wealthy and properly diversified this small blip cost you far less than the market movement, like maybe only 1%; or

C. You knew the top was in, shorted the market, made an absolute killing and grew your stash even to a more enviable number??

..hmm none of the above? 

I have to add a little story here.  I cashed out a large amount of old mutual funds from a previous employer to 'consolidate' them into my brokerage account.  Mostly so I can manage tax costs better.   I did this at what turned out to be very near the market high.  So I 'timed' the marked by Complete, dumb luck....but I'll take it! 




Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on February 06, 2018, 09:21:21 AM
Thanks for the replies.

I was down about 1.4% NW at the close of Aus markets earlier today.

Made the call to stop buying stocks in December when the Aussie market had a massive run up, and to start paying down debt quicker. This was a decision to deleverage a little before FIRE next year.

If the market drops another 5% I will prob say screw conservatism, redraw the money off my loan, and buy more stocks at the cheaper price.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on February 06, 2018, 02:47:38 PM
Sort-of answer here: I am trustee/executor of my parent's estate. I'm in the process of consolidating some stuff. The very awful company cashed out all the stock in late December, in anticipation of finally following my instructions to move it to the very less awful company. When the transfer didn't happen (not really surprised) we missed the total run-up. Guess we're safely on the sidelines now. Accidental market timing, perhaps?

As for our own real numbers, meh, I haven't checked. We have a lot of cash sitting on the sidelines, so we could toss some in, but I think I'll wait until the Jim Cramer types are screaming that the end of the world is near before pulling the trigger. Oh, except that I don't watch Jim Cramer or any of the rest of them. Will somebody let me know when it's time, please?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on February 06, 2018, 06:06:47 PM
I'm in CAT A.  Lost about 100k.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on February 06, 2018, 08:30:48 PM
I'm in CAT A.  Lost about 100k.

Sorry to hear that.

I guess when with the bulls occasionally one of the buggers will step on your foot. Sure this causes short term pain, but in the long run a bruised hoof is not going to stop you surging to your destination where you will graze on sweet pastures.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: wannabe-stache on February 07, 2018, 10:59:07 AM
So.... which camp are you in:

A. The bigger you are the harder you fall. Ie: this small blip in the market set you back a 6 figure sum which is more than 3 or 4% of you net worth; or

B. As you are wealthy and properly diversified this small blip cost you far less than the market movement, like maybe only 1%; or

C. You knew the top was in, shorted the market, made an absolute killing and grew your stash even to a more enviable number??

D i suppose. young investor here, heavily exposed to equity mutual funds, lost a lot of $ on paper ($30K in one day - ouch!) and looking forward to putting more money to work for another 10-15 years according to the terms of my investment philosophy statement.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on February 07, 2018, 08:31:51 PM
So.... which camp are you in:

A. The bigger you are the harder you fall. Ie: this small blip in the market set you back a 6 figure sum which is more than 3 or 4% of you net worth; or

B. As you are wealthy and properly diversified this small blip cost you far less than the market movement, like maybe only 1%; or

C. You knew the top was in, shorted the market, made an absolute killing and grew your stash even to a more enviable number??

Another 'none of the above'.  Although I've been aware that the markets are freaking out as opposed to going straight up, I have only a vague idea (within 100k) of my net worth and even less idea what these gyrations have done to the portfolio.  I did check in on my son's 529 since those funds are coming closer to being tapped.  There's ~110k in a moderately aggressive 70/30 fund, so I might move to a more conservative 50/50 fund, but it's a small optimization in the whole scheme of things.  I still feel pretty good about my (thus far too conservative) AA, given that we have 'enough' and sufficient opportunity to make money in bond-like income.

Getting excited that long-bond income is finally on the rise though!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: AdrianC on February 08, 2018, 08:12:11 AM
Definitely an 'A', not that it makes any difference to me. Surprised more people on here aren't 'A's.

3-4% drop after a 25% rise in one year...no worries.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on February 08, 2018, 11:50:36 PM
Yeah, no worries, but now down more than $50K for the week 😳
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: bwall on February 09, 2018, 10:30:57 AM
Just now found this thread and it's amazing. . . . I don't think anyone has used the term High Net Worth Individuals (HWNI) yet, but it applies to everyone with $1m in investible assets, not to mention $2m. Here is the definition per wiki:

High-net-worth individual (HNWI) is a term used by some segments of the financial services industry to designate persons whose investible assets (such as stocks and bonds) exceed a given amount. Typically, these individuals are defined as holding financial assets (excluding their primary residence) with a value greater than US$1 million.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-net-worth_individual

Here's another article talking about the growth and distribution of HWNI's.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/09/28/number-high-net-worth-individuals-hits-all-time-high-165-million/

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on February 10, 2018, 04:50:23 AM
I  think High Net Worth Individual needs to be redefined.   I'd term that to be closer to 5 million.  If you have 1 million invested outside of home and pensions you have a nice pad, but in 2018 it's not high net worth.  It's bare bones living without extra income if retired.  Some here can do it.  If they do, they are very frugal.   I think you start to feel wealth at about 2.5 million invested, on up to about 5 million.   After 5 million your what I'd think of as rich and ready to take on the more risky investments of HNWI.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on February 10, 2018, 08:53:22 AM
$5M USD is a huge sum of money. In Australia it would put you in the top 1% based on Net Worth. I am not even talking investable assets.

Do you think that is the pass mark for HNWI in a wealthy developed country (top 1%)?


Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on February 10, 2018, 09:03:26 AM
$5M USD is a huge sum of money. In Australia it would put you in the top 1% based on Net Worth. I am not even talking investable assets.

Do you think that is the pass mark for HNWI in a wealthy developed country (top 1%)?

If you're living on 1 million invested as a sole income stream, you're the typical millionaire next door.  There is very little flash living on 40k a year.  You're basically middle class but not having to work. (Mustacian)   At the 5 million invested level you can have flashy house, cars, vacations, parties...the things truly rich people do.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Car Jack on February 10, 2018, 11:29:27 AM
I believe $40k is under the poverty line for a family of 4.  If there is other sources of income (social security, pension, occasional bank robbery), then it's not a lot to get above the line.  But it ain't livin' high, that's for sure.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on February 10, 2018, 12:01:55 PM
A few generalisations of course.

I.e do you have kids? Location?.. $40k in NYC won't go far but in rural Wyoming it would.

If you live in UK your healthcare costs would also be zero.

We live in Oregon on our 5.5 acres (2 adults) and with the house paid off we consistently spend around $30k/year. But we have probably skimped on insurance during the accumulation phase so we are now paying about $1500/year more to protect our stash from lawsuits.

Assume we have a couple of vacations at say $10k would put us right at $40k/year.. If we had to pay fell whack on our HC premiums that would add another $14k.

So $55k for living decent in FIRE for us.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on February 10, 2018, 08:27:55 PM
A few generalisations of course.

I.e do you have kids? Location?.. $40k in NYC won't go far but in rural Wyoming it would.

If you live in UK your healthcare costs would also be zero.

We live in Oregon on our 5.5 acres (2 adults) and with the house paid off we consistently spend around $30k/year. But we have probably skimped on insurance during the accumulation phase so we are now paying about $1500/year more to protect our stash from lawsuits.

Assume we have a couple of vacations at say $10k would put us right at $40k/year.. If we had to pay fell whack on our HC premiums that would add another $14k.

So $55k for living decent in FIRE for us.

So you over saved??
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on February 11, 2018, 12:16:30 AM
A few generalisations of course.

I.e do you have kids? Location?.. $40k in NYC won't go far but in rural Wyoming it would.

If you live in UK your healthcare costs would also be zero.

We live in Oregon on our 5.5 acres (2 adults) and with the house paid off we consistently spend around $30k/year. But we have probably skimped on insurance during the accumulation phase so we are now paying about $1500/year more to protect our stash from lawsuits.

Assume we have a couple of vacations at say $10k would put us right at $40k/year.. If we had to pay fell whack on our HC premiums that would add another $14k.

So $55k for living decent in FIRE for us.

So you over saved??


Yes at 4% our income could be about $115k/yr.. Prior to the correction at least.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: bigchrisb on February 11, 2018, 03:13:00 AM
Category a for me. Down over 100k, or about 3%. Given I gained the same the month before, I'm not exactly losing sleep!

As for "high net worth" classifications, the cynic in me thinks it's a bracket thought up by the financial sharks (advisors, fund managers and hedge funds), not because it's a mark of independent wealth, but rather a target market.  I'd like to be collecting 2% on someone else's investable assets!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: bwall on February 11, 2018, 09:40:21 AM
As for "high net worth" classifications, the cynic in me thinks it's a bracket thought up by the financial sharks (advisors, fund managers and hedge funds), not because it's a mark of independent wealth, but rather a target market.  I'd like to be collecting 2% on someone else's investable assets!

I believe your analysis to be accurate, not cynical. Giving a demographic a name helps in lots of ways. As you mention, financial advisors provided the definition for their own purposes, such as allowing actors across the industry to identify a 'whale' when they see one. However, the same classification also allows the 'marks' to know that they've been identified as such and then to react accordingly. By knowing better how scare the cohort you belong to is, it allows you to better understand the motivations of financial advisors you may encounter.

For example, a couple of months ago I was in Europe trying to open a business bank account. The gentleman I spoke with began the conversation by saying that they had strict requirements for new account holders, such as monthly fees of 60 EUR and minimum capital of 500,000 EUR. "Not a problem", I said. And, immediately the tone of the conversation changed significantly. I hung up the phone and it occurred to me that the banker doesn't get such phone calls often.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on February 11, 2018, 10:37:26 AM
Category a for me. Down over 100k, or about 3%. Given I gained the same the month before, I'm not exactly losing sleep!

As for "high net worth" classifications, the cynic in me thinks it's a bracket thought up by the financial sharks (advisors, fund managers and hedge funds), not because it's a mark of independent wealth, but rather a target market.  I'd like to be collecting 2% on someone else's investable assets!

So you have $3.3M?... Nice..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on February 11, 2018, 01:35:32 PM
Category a for me. Down over 100k, or about 3%. Given I gained the same the month before, I'm not exactly losing sleep!

As for "high net worth" classifications, the cynic in me thinks it's a bracket thought up by the financial sharks (advisors, fund managers and hedge funds), not because it's a mark of independent wealth, but rather a target market.  I'd like to be collecting 2% on someone else's investable assets!

So you have $3.3M?... Nice..:)
Hmmm, I think those might be Aussie dollars. Still mighty nice, but they don't stretch quite as far as USD.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: bigchrisb on February 11, 2018, 02:01:27 PM
Category a for me. Down over 100k, or about 3%. Given I gained the same the month before, I'm not exactly losing sleep!

As for "high net worth" classifications, the cynic in me thinks it's a bracket thought up by the financial sharks (advisors, fund managers and hedge funds), not because it's a mark of independent wealth, but rather a target market.  I'd like to be collecting 2% on someone else's investable assets!

So you have $3.3M?... Nice..:)
Hmmm, I think those might be Aussie dollars. Still mighty nice, but they don't stretch quite as far as USD.
Yep, Pacific Pesos. I don't convert as,
A) I save and spend in Aud, and
B) the exchange rate is quite volatile, having ranged between 1.1 and 0.7 usd in recent memory.
Current conversion puts me at about 2.5m in greenbacks.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on February 11, 2018, 02:27:01 PM
Still a sizable stash.. Well done..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: farmecologist on February 11, 2018, 09:18:52 PM
As for "high net worth" classifications, the cynic in me thinks it's a bracket thought up by the financial sharks (advisors, fund managers and hedge funds), not because it's a mark of independent wealth, but rather a target market.  I'd like to be collecting 2% on someone else's investable assets!

'Accredited investor' is also a classification and is currently required by law for some investments such as PeerStreet, etc...

  https://info.peerstreet.com/glossary/accredited-investor/

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on February 12, 2018, 01:24:43 AM
As for "high net worth" classifications, the cynic in me thinks it's a bracket thought up by the financial sharks (advisors, fund managers and hedge funds), not because it's a mark of independent wealth, but rather a target market.  I'd like to be collecting 2% on someone else's investable assets!

'Accredited investor' is also a classification and is currently required by law for some investments such as PeerStreet, etc...

  https://info.peerstreet.com/glossary/accredited-investor/

I'd qualify by item number 2.  Doesn't mean much, I'm not qualified in any way to play with big boy investments.  I've got primal fear just buying some individual stocks.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on February 12, 2018, 10:23:14 AM
Well folks, itís a big pay day today 👀
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on February 12, 2018, 12:02:54 PM
Good.  I'm down over 100k.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on February 12, 2018, 12:16:33 PM
Good.  I'm down over 100k.

Only about 1.0 Tesla's then..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on February 13, 2018, 04:14:32 AM
Good.  I'm down over 100k.

Only about 1.0 Tesla's then..:)

Sub 100k losses now.  Not Model X or P100D Model S.  Getting into Model 3 range.


😁
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: JoJoP on February 27, 2018, 10:04:53 AM
Category a for me. Down over 100k, or about 3%. Given I gained the same the month before, I'm not exactly losing sleep!

As for "high net worth" classifications, the cynic in me thinks it's a bracket thought up by the financial sharks (advisors, fund managers and hedge funds), not because it's a mark of independent wealth, but rather a target market.  I'd like to be collecting 2% on someone else's investable assets!

I agree.  It's like the old song "Would you walk away from a fool and his money?"  Once they know you've got some, you might as well paint a bulls-eye on your forehead.  I wanted to be a Chase Private Client, because at the time it allowed you to get the valuable 100,000 point Chase Sapphire Reserve credit card, even if you had a lot of recent credit cards open.  CPC allowed an override of policy restrictions.  The CPC query happened right AFTER we took our liquid cash and bought an investment property.  So our funds at Chase were shy of private client material, and they kept an eagle eye on our assets to make sure we surpassed the requirements within a couple of months.  Then they requested multiple meetings with the Investment Banker, whose goal was to get us to move our assets over to him for "management."  No thanks, I said.  We'll keep an eye on our own money, thanks anyway. 

As an aside, the Private Client status does give some perks, such as fee free ATMs world wide.  That's been handy on our international travels. 

Hope you all rebounded from the dip.  We're mostly in real estate, so I didn't even look to see what happened with my brokerage account.   I'm only sorry that I didn't have some spare cash to buy on the dip.   ExFlyBoy, are you back with us yet?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: JoJoP on February 27, 2018, 10:32:28 AM
I  think High Net Worth Individual needs to be redefined.   I'd term that to be closer to 5 million.  If you have 1 million invested outside of home and pensions you have a nice pad, but in 2018 it's not high net worth.  It's bare bones living without extra income if retired.  Some here can do it.  If they do, they are very frugal.   I think you start to feel wealth at about 2.5 million invested, on up to about 5 million.   After 5 million your what I'd think of as rich and ready to take on the more risky investments of HNWI.

 Great point, Bateaux.  This is the shame of it... very few people (relative to the population) have 1 Million, yet, using the 4% rule/$40K a year, as a barometer, it still requires frugal living if you expect it to last a lifetime.  You'll have a hard time being in an Assisted Living facility on 40K a year.  And if both members of a couple make it that long, forget it on $40K.  But, hopefully the assets will be growing and keeping pace as one ages, so the 4% will meet the requirements.   

Here's my inner skeptic: I think the term HNW basically means to the financial world that this person might need a financial adviser or an investment banker.  As noted above, it's a marketing term. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: dogboyslim on February 27, 2018, 12:14:25 PM
This is the difference between looking at wealth and looking at income.  I feel its difficult to classify anyone with >$1 MM as anything BUT a high net worth individual.  You may or may not be living only off the assets, but just by sitting on our butts we can generate more income than 40% of the household population in the US.  I struggle with a concept that says this is the same as someone with no or zero net worth and a similar income.  They are in no way the same thing.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on February 28, 2018, 11:51:56 PM
I'm still waiting on the secret handshake of the HNW club.  So far I very much feel like an outsider.   It took us a long time to get here.   Maybe it was so gradual we didn't notice.

I'm looking at homes in Florida to retire to in the 200 to 300k range.  I remember that being so much money to me once.  We gained that much in NW in the last year.  I guess it's real.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on March 01, 2018, 12:30:18 AM
I'm still waiting on the secret handshake of the HNW club.  So far I very much feel like an outsider.

Well, if it helps, I feel like Ted Cruz gave me a secret handshake (https://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanellis/2017/12/04/ted-cruz-529-education-savings-amendment-to-tax-reform-is-a-big-win-for-families/#20760a106c45) now that I can use some of our burgeoning 529 funds for my daughter's private schooling in Texas.  Funds that have appreciated nicely since 2003 are able to be spent tax free up to 10k.  And I feel pretty good about spending them now before the market craps out!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on March 01, 2018, 12:36:18 AM
For some reason we can exchange this magic creation of numbers for real things.  I mean, we didn't have to trade hours for these dollars. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Car Jack on March 01, 2018, 08:10:00 AM
The Ken Fisher ad that splashes across the top of Marketwatch for me uses $500k as their number.  I think it's just a number to fish out clients who want to feel like big shots being high net worth and using "their guy" to manage their weath.

"Private Client" was mentioned and I know Fidelity gives you this designation if your account is over $1M.  With this, you get a Private Client manager which means that when you call Fidelity for a generic question, you have to tell them "no, I don't want to be transferred to my private client manager because it'll land in his voicemail and I won't hear for 3 days what the answer to my simple question is".  On the good side, it means that you get turbo tax for free.  There's a trick to get not only online but downloaded versions.  I did it this year just to see if I could get it.  I was able to.

I work in a 3 building business complex.  One building is chock full of Wealth Management firms.  The question "Where are all the customers' yachts?" comes to mind.  In the parking lot, I see on my lunchtime walk every day: Maserati Quattroporte, Maserati Ghibli, BMW i8, Audi S5, Porsche 911 turbo S, Mercedes E300 4 matic, Jaguar sedan (I forgot what they're called....something R).  Makes me chuckle that they're "managing" to turn the wealth of their clients into their own to waste on big dollar cars (and I'm a car guy).
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: dogboyslim on March 01, 2018, 08:30:09 AM
I give these guys more of a pass on the high dollar cars.  Don't think about this group, think about normal people.  Are they more going to trust giving all their money to the person driving the early 2000's Honda civic, or the person driving the known expensive car?

I think Lexus/Audi A6 is sufficient for that purpose though, so I don't give a complete pass.  Still, I want a DB9.  I will NEVER buy one, but I want one!

Also, Vanguard calls us Flagship clients.  If I get to $5M, I get to be a Flagship Select Client!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on March 01, 2018, 08:30:46 AM
My broker used to classify me as a premium client, then I became a platinum client. Iíll have to change brokers to become a private client I suppose. I want to level up 😁
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on March 01, 2018, 01:25:53 PM
We've been trying to dump an Ameriprise account for over a month.  They keep dragging it out.  Going straight to VTSAX the minute they allow the transfer.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Secretly Saving on March 01, 2018, 03:16:15 PM
"Private Client" was mentioned and I know Fidelity gives you this designation if your account is over $1M.  With this, you get a Private Client manager which means that when you call Fidelity for a generic question, you have to tell them "no, I don't want to be transferred to my private client manager because it'll land in his voicemail and I won't hear for 3 days what the answer to my simple question is".  On the good side, it means that you get turbo tax for free.  There's a trick to get not only online but downloaded versions.  I did it this year just to see if I could get it.  I was able to.

What's the trick?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on March 01, 2018, 05:32:22 PM
I give these guys more of a pass on the high dollar cars.  Don't think about this group, think about normal people.  Are they more going to trust giving all their money to the person driving the early 2000's Honda civic, or the person driving the known expensive car?

I think Lexus/Audi A6 is sufficient for that purpose though, so I don't give a complete pass.  Still, I want a DB9.  I will NEVER buy one, but I want one!

Also, Vanguard calls us Flagship clients.  If I get to $5M, I get to be a Flagship Select Client!

In order to get to one of these favoured status's I'd have to move all my money to one place.. But heck if I combine mine and my Wife's accounts just at Vanguard we are over $1M there.. Rest of the 401k's are spread about so that keeps us incognito..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on March 02, 2018, 01:15:08 AM
We have a mortgage with Chase, plus our checking and savings. There is a LOT of cash there right now, because we are actively searching for our next real estate project. They consistently bug us about becoming Private Clients. Yes, I may have enough to meet their minimum, but I'll be damned if I'm going to have them manage my money. And it kind of pisses me off that they won't count the mortgage for qualifying purposes.

Oh, well. We're somehow managing to live a pretty happy life without being Chase Private Clients, lol!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: wannabe-stache on March 09, 2018, 12:57:59 PM
i wasn't tracking NW until May 2017 and it's up an unreal amount in that time frame.  started at $2.1M, ended the year at $2.8M.

With some year end bonus payments expected this month, at this pace (putting aside market volatility) i would bet anything we're at $3.0M by mid Feb if not sooner. it's unreal how it grows even from day to day.

Calling myself to task for that statement. i cursed us all.

but, we've continued down the savings path and with the recent runup, we are at $2.985M.  $15K to go, which of course could become $100K to go in a flash as February pointed out.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: webguy on March 09, 2018, 01:40:34 PM
Can I join your thread?  We just hit 2M yesterday! And with the friendly market today we're up another 15k already!  I'm carrying over our progress from the race to 2M thread if that's OK as I like keeping track of it this way.

I'd like to join to help motivate me. Currently at $540k and hope to hit the big 1M in the next couple of years.

I made it to $748k! Keep saving everybody!!

I made it to $988k and was getting excited... and then taxes hit! Looks like it'll be another few months yet :(

I finally did it!! Crawled over the line to $1,000,330 today!  Feels pretty surreal. Never thought I'd actually be worth a million dollars. Now I guess I keep on saving towards the next million!

Currently at $1.11m.  Don't really have a goal number at this point. I love running my own business so just tryna ride it out as long as possible and "make hay while the sun shines" as they say.

Passed the half way point!  Somehow we have $1.535m. Not sure how long the next 0.465 will take but I'll report back if we get there!

It took a little longer than Iíd hoped due to the market being a douchebag lately but we Just hit 2 million today! Weíre officially multi-millionaires I guess! I crunched the numbers and I think our ďfat fireĒ number is around 2.5-3M so Iíll probably keep trucking away till we hit that, then Iím not sure what Iíll do.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: markbike528CBX on March 09, 2018, 07:11:37 PM
@webguy , once you are in , you are in forever, only upward ...and beyond! are ways to exit.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: bluebelle on March 10, 2018, 09:18:05 AM
just popped in to say I've enjoyed the first 10 days of March far more than the first 10 days of Feb.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: carstenjames on March 10, 2018, 09:22:52 AM
@webguy congratulations!  Looking through your posts it seems you have started a successful software business?  Would you mind sharing what kind of software you make and how you sell it?  Would love to hear your story!  I am addicted to successful entrepreneurial stories :)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Car Jack on March 13, 2018, 07:58:06 AM
"Private Client" was mentioned and I know Fidelity gives you this designation if your account is over $1M.  With this, you get a Private Client manager which means that when you call Fidelity for a generic question, you have to tell them "no, I don't want to be transferred to my private client manager because it'll land in his voicemail and I won't hear for 3 days what the answer to my simple question is".  On the good side, it means that you get turbo tax for free.  There's a trick to get not only online but downloaded versions.  I did it this year just to see if I could get it.  I was able to.

What's the trick?

I can't remember, but I remember going in and you have the choice to order a number of options.  The online is free.  I think I clicked the downloadable version and 3 or 4 options came up....one of them being free.  I could be off on how I got it......maybe there was a charge but then a minus equal amount on checkout.  Didn't take me more than 2 minutes screwing around to get it.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: JoJoP on March 29, 2018, 03:22:06 PM
Can I join your thread?  We just hit 2M yesterday! And with the friendly market today we're up another 15k already!  I'm carrying over our progress from the race to 2M thread if that's OK as I like keeping track of it this way.

I'd like to join to help motivate me. Currently at $540k and hope to hit the big 1M in the next couple of years.

I made it to $748k! Keep saving everybody!!

I made it to $988k and was getting excited... and then taxes hit! Looks like it'll be another few months yet :(

I finally did it!! Crawled over the line to $1,000,330 today!  Feels pretty surreal. Never thought I'd actually be worth a million dollars. Now I guess I keep on saving towards the next million!

Currently at $1.11m.  Don't really have a goal number at this point. I love running my own business so just tryna ride it out as long as possible and "make hay while the sun shines" as they say.

Passed the half way point!  Somehow we have $1.535m. Not sure how long the next 0.465 will take but I'll report back if we get there!

It took a little longer than I’d hoped due to the market being a douchebag lately but we Just hit 2 million today! We’re officially multi-millionaires I guess! I crunched the numbers and I think our “fat fire” number is around 2.5-3M so I’ll probably keep trucking away till we hit that, then I’m not sure what I’ll do.

Hi webguy, welcome!  I like looking at the dates of your quotes... you really flew through that second million quickly.   Congrats and welcome to the thread.  It's kind of a lifetime status thread.  Once you hit these numbers,  you just hang around with us from now on.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: soccerluvof4 on April 01, 2018, 06:55:22 AM
Was in the middle of these parameters, crept across the finish line only to get punched back down. Feel like a whack a mole! Currently excluding paid for house around the 3/4 mark after being hit by the market downward move. Being 3 years fire'd though a lot more positive!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: wannabe-stache on April 21, 2018, 08:26:19 PM
Finally made it after April bonus payments came through. Including home equity were at $3.1M. I will say that itís a very ďho humĒ feeling to cross the threshold. Maybe it will be more exciting when we are at $3M of investments.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: honeyfill on April 28, 2018, 10:14:08 PM
still hanging in there at 2.45 million. took a big hit in Jan/Feb in the market and in paying off the kitchen remodel but on the road to recovery now.  Still planning on June 1 retirement!!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on April 30, 2018, 06:52:48 PM
still hanging in there at 2.45 million. took a big hit in Jan/Feb in the market and in paying off the kitchen remodel but on the road to recovery now.  Still planning on June 1 retirement!!

At least you're well above the 2M dollar hump.  We came within $31k before the market turned.  Now we're over $90k short.  When the time comes I'm sure we'll flynright past the 2M mark.  Good luck!  June is so very close now.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on May 01, 2018, 12:45:01 AM
still hanging in there at 2.45 million. took a big hit in Jan/Feb in the market and in paying off the kitchen remodel but on the road to recovery now.  Still planning on June 1 retirement!!

At least you're well above the 2M dollar hump.  We came within $31k before the market turned.  Now we're over $90k short.  When the time comes I'm sure we'll flynright past the 2M mark.  Good luck!  June is so very close now.

In a queer opposition to frugality and Mustachianism, I'm finding that our initial forays into largess (donating more as we crest our monetary goals, and not being caught up in watching the numbers click up and down like a nightly basketball game (Go Rockets!)) are resulting in more tangible riches, both metaphysically and fundamentally. 

The world, as it is, provides 'sustainably' for our foreseeable existence, and so I give back as a gift in expectation that everyone will enjoy a similar lifestyle in the future.  I want this beautiful world to continue for our children, because it is more than I ever could have hoped for, but I do worry that it is being eroded.

I was drawn to Pete by his lofty 'save the world through environmentalism' verve. Hopefully this site doesn't end up in the dustbin of history as a money grab, since he seems pretty complacent nowadays that he's sitting on a gold mine.

I always wondered, just to be totally transparent, about how a home construction enthusiast could also be hardcore environmentalist.  There is nothing more wasteful than upgrading or gutting a home.  His description rebuilding their 2nd home (http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/12/20/shaving-the-costly-edges-from-a-major-renovation/) ... 
Quote
The other challenge is the odd feeling of suddenly becoming one of the biggest consumers in town. Almost every day I have to buy stuff. Tools, materials, and supplies are needed in abundance for a project like this, and so Iíve spent about $20,000 in the past three months. On top of all that steel, there is a huge pile of engineered lumber taking up most of the back driveway and more deliveries on the way. I try to remind myself that itís an investment, and the money will be returned many times over when we sell our current house (this downsizing will free up over $100,000, even after all these renovation costs). But I still see the trucks and forklifts, steel and wood, cardboard and plastic wrap, and canít help but notice that for now I am chewing up a huge share of my own planet just to build myself a dwelling.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on May 03, 2018, 09:05:01 PM
Didn't Pete also install solar panels, buy an electric car, but moreover mainly use a bicycle to get around?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on May 10, 2018, 08:32:21 AM
Checked off another million milestone recently (I try not to celebrate right away, just in case I meander up and down a few times, but I'm solidly there now).  Being in the oil industry doesn't hurt. 

I'm finding that my spending is beginning to tick up this year too.  I'm fortunate that this doesn't seem to be a problem.  Hope everyone's races are going well!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on May 10, 2018, 11:33:46 AM
I'm getting closer to 2 million now that the market has gone back up, I was there in late January.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on May 10, 2018, 08:32:01 PM
The past few sessions have done a lot.  Within 50k or so of the 2 million liquid point.  We peaked at 1.969 million liquid previous.   The firehose is still flowing so we just need a little more market push to get past the next milestone.  I know it's only been a few months, but it seems we've been stuck in this range forever.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on May 17, 2018, 04:56:09 PM
We are past $3M with the crazy market, but plan to invest a bunch in a remodel, which may drop our cash flow, but positively increase our house value. So . . . I'll keep coming back & consider this my "home". I have no idea how property values in the bay area will continue to grow/drop/stabilize. After we pay for this remodel, we will do other facepunch worthy things like potentially buying a rental property in Hawaii. So, there's that.

I'm concerned that the housing market just cannot maintain its current trajectory. I'm in the Bay Area. We've past the $3.4M mark, but much of that is in real estate, which is . . . unsteady IMO.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: itchyfeet on May 17, 2018, 10:58:00 PM

I'm concerned that the housing market just cannot maintain its current trajectory. I'm in the Bay Area. We've past the $3.4M mark, but much of that is in real estate, which is . . . unsteady IMO.

Like you I have a house that is rather expensive, but in Sydney. Over the last year it has been dropping in value by around $10,000 a month. It is like my FIRE plans have a slow leak and I am working away feverishly to keep pumping more air in, but am proving a little ineffective due the the leak.

We internd to sell the house when we FIRE and move somewhere cheaper but for a variety of reasons are not ready to sell yet. I do hope that the slow leak does not become a full blown blow out, but I donít think so. I do however, expect prices to continue to ease.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on May 18, 2018, 07:23:51 AM
that's what I worry about, @itchyfeet . We are on track for retirement without the house as anything more as shelter (e.g. no cash out), but our retirement plans would be much more flexible if the house at least maintains current value.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on May 19, 2018, 09:06:50 PM
What if you were to sell the house now and then rent ?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on May 20, 2018, 08:42:49 AM
What if you were to sell the house now and then rent ?

Not sure if you're referring to me or @itchyfeet . For us, we have two kids in school, and there are few to no long term rental options in our area. We will stay the course until our youngest graduates, and then evaluate where things stand
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on May 20, 2018, 08:54:07 AM
We are currently living in the Middle East, and our house in Sydney is rented out. Once we FIRE we will move back to Sydney and take stock of everything and start looking into where we will move to.

DW will do some casual work to pay ourselves a little rent until we move somewhere cheaper. We are thinking we might live in Sydney for 2 or 3 years after we repatriate as we would like to reconnect with friends and family, and just make sure I donít need to go back to work to top up the finances. Job prospects for me are far better in Sydney compared to places we are considering to move to once we sell.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on May 21, 2018, 11:18:11 AM
The past few sessions have done a lot.  Within 50k or so of the 2 million liquid point.  We peaked at 1.969 million liquid previous.   The firehose is still flowing so we just need a little more market push to get past the next milestone.  I know it's only been a few months, but it seems we've been stuck in this range forever.

Looks like we have also just crossed the $2M liquid judging by where we were when the S&P500 was at these levels in January.

It would be nice if the market started making new highs from here.. :)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on May 21, 2018, 11:50:44 AM
The past few sessions have done a lot.  Within 50k or so of the 2 million liquid point.  We peaked at 1.969 million liquid previous.   The firehose is still flowing so we just need a little more market push to get past the next milestone.  I know it's only been a few months, but it seems we've been stuck in this range forever.

Looks like we have also just crossed the $2M liquid judging by where we were when the S&P500 was at these levels in January.

It would be nice if the market started making new highs from here.. :)

Congrats to you freshly minted double millionaires, and hereís to yet another new mother of all tops. 😁
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on May 21, 2018, 12:07:10 PM
Thanks Itchy.. I must say that 0.8% WR was getting scary with the market going down in Feb..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on May 23, 2018, 07:03:07 PM
2018 has seen my accounts nudge right to the edge of 2M liquid only to have the market immediately decline.   We're about to put a 20 percent down payment on a second home.  That won't be considered liquid so it may be even longer till.we reach the magic 2M liquid number.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on May 23, 2018, 07:31:37 PM
Having a second home to escape winter seems like a great idea as I get older.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on May 23, 2018, 10:08:59 PM
Having a second home to escape winter seems like a great idea as I get older.

The home will eventually be permanent and yes, Florida.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Much Fishing to Do on May 30, 2018, 07:58:35 AM
I guess I've accidentally found myself here.  Used to make ~$120k year but was away from home traveling for work all the time, and couldn't stand the work, it was depressing.  I had always seen about $1M-$1.5M invested as the number I needed to get out as we seemed to get by fine on $50k/yr, realizing with a growing family there were a lot of unknowns.

9 years ago, at the age of 36, when I had about $300k in retirement savings and a paid for $200k house and had just had my third child I finally had the guts and the client contacts to start a business where I and my employees could all work from home, figuring if I failed I wouldn't be broke, would start a phase of semi-retirements, and most importantly at the time would just be home either way. After making less for a number of years (though plenty to cover our expenses and save well) the work and net profit exploded.  Over the past couple of years the amount of work got to me and I was close to checking out but I've since finally figured out how to shift much of the responsibility to employees and thru client partnership ventures.

Last year I netted about $500k and this year will likely be $1M+ (extremely volatile from month to month, next year could very well be $200k as it could be $1M).  For these years taxes are now by far the primary financial focus as what I'll pay in taxes this year alone is many times what we spend.  Needing new financial goals I've filled 529s to the tune of $120k for each child and started a DAF to help with taxes which I'll use throughout FIRE to make charitable donations from, and investments not including 529s have built to about $2.8M with a total net worth of about $3.6M.  We've let our spending increase and now basically buy everything we want to, go on any trip we want to (and can find the time for), etc, but for this family of 5, $100k pretty much covers all that.

The 'problem' that obviously emerged is how to downshift without quitting, as quitting is no longer the holy grail as it once was.  I feel personally obligated to employees to keep things rolling, my workday stresses me out and takes too much of my time but I certainly don't "hate" it, I'm actually quite proud of it now, and its hard to not notice what OMY of work can do right now, even though we obviously have more than enough.  I think I'm finally getting somewhere on the transfer of responsibilities and reducing stress.  Its really really funny how many people think you have a hidden agenda when you try to give up profit in return for handing off responsibility, no one seems to ever understand giving up profit potential and that has actually created some difficulties in this downshifting.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on May 30, 2018, 12:41:58 PM
I guess I've accidentally found myself here.  Used to make ~$120k year but was away from home traveling for work all the time, and couldn't stand the work, it was depressing.  I had always seen about $1M-$1.5M invested as the number I needed to get out as we seemed to get by fine on $50k/yr, realizing with a growing family there were a lot of unknowns.

9 years ago, at the age of 36, when I had about $300k in retirement savings and a paid for $200k house and had just had my third child I finally had the guts and the client contacts to start a business where I and my employees could all work from home, figuring if I failed I wouldn't be broke, would start a phase of semi-retirements, and most importantly at the time would just be home either way. After making less for a number of years (though plenty to cover our expenses and save well) the work and net profit exploded.  Over the past couple of years the amount of work got to me and I was close to checking out but I've since finally figured out how to shift much of the responsibility to employees and thru client partnership ventures.

Last year I netted about $500k and this year will likely be $1M+ (extremely volatile from month to month, next year could very well be $200k as it could be $1M).  For these years taxes are now by far the primary financial focus as what I'll pay in taxes this year alone is many times what we spend.  Needing new financial goals I've filled 529s to the tune of $120k for each child and started a DAF to help with taxes which I'll use throughout FIRE to make charitable donations from, and investments not including 529s have built to about $2.8M with a total net worth of about $3.6M.  We've let our spending increase and now basically buy everything we want to, go on any trip we want to (and can find the time for), etc, but for this family of 5, $100k pretty much covers all that.

The 'problem' that obviously emerged is how to downshift without quitting, as quitting is no longer the holy grail as it once was.  I feel personally obligated to employees to keep things rolling, my workday stresses me out and takes too much of my time but I certainly don't "hate" it, I'm actually quite proud of it now, and its hard to not notice what OMY of work can do right now, even though we obviously have more than enough.  I think I'm finally getting somewhere on the transfer of responsibilities and reducing stress.  Its really really funny how many people think you have a hidden agenda when you try to give up profit in return for handing off responsibility, no one seems to ever understand giving up profit potential and that has actually created some difficulties in this downshifting.
Good for you! In my career, I worked with a number of business owners. A surprising number of them kept the businesses going long after they had "enough", just to keep their employees' livelihoods intact. Eventually, many of them sold the businesses to the employees outright, often acting as the bank until they found their own footing. Win-win.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on June 01, 2018, 06:09:57 PM
Back over the 2 million dollar mark again

$1,631 in liquid net worth
$  383  in home equity if Zillow is to be believed
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: w@nker on June 03, 2018, 08:05:47 PM
I'll join this race.  Sounds like good company and discussion. 

Wife and I are at $2.3M net worth at 35.  I expect to hit $3M in two years at 37.  Even though we are already technically FI, we won't stop there, as we have some significant philanthropic interests that would ideally involve setting up a foundation during ER.  So, may stop at $5M in what will likely be five years at 40, or if not there, certainly the earlier of 45 or $10M.

This whole snowball thing is legit.  Insanity.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Roland of Gilead on June 03, 2018, 08:34:53 PM
We are retired but might get to the $2M mark with speculative biotech investing.  I only play around with $100k but already have generated $400,000 in gains from it.  Taxes start to put a crimp in things.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: texxan1 on June 03, 2018, 08:46:01 PM
I'm gonna join in this thread and see how long I can stay in it LOL

46 YO single
$1.57m in liquid assets
500k paid for house.

So that puts me barely here, going for 2m liquid before I pull the plug so should be there in about 2 years... but the more and more I calculate the more and more I think that with 1.75m liquid I can bolt..... then I will change my name to FIREnFishing
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on June 04, 2018, 07:10:32 AM
I'm gonna join in this thread and see how long I can stay in it LOL

46 YO single
$1.57m in liquid assets
500k paid for house.

So that puts me barely here, going for 2m liquid before I pull the plug so should be there in about 2 years... but the more and more I calculate the more and more I think that with 1.75m liquid I can bolt..... then I will change my name to FIREnFishing

Wow.  I've need to FIRE quick so I can
steal FIREDnFishing as my handle. 🤣
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: meatgrinder on June 04, 2018, 02:46:58 PM
I'm usually all about stealth wealth but fuck it!  Interwebs anonymity is partial stealth.....

$2.4M net worth. 38yo with stay at home wife and two young kids. Should reach $3M sometime in 2019 (market willing).  Already FI but I'm in the upside down world of not knowing what to do if I were to leave work.  Maybe once my current batch of RSUs vest in a couple years and if the wife joins the work force I'll sit on the couch and watch Jerry Springer reruns.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: FireAndFree on June 07, 2018, 02:33:23 AM
Glad to join all of you on the adventure!

I'm already FIREd. My net worth is currently $2.98M. Hoping to hit $3M in the next 2-3 months.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: soccerluvof4 on June 07, 2018, 03:04:13 AM
I tip toed back and for over the 3 mark but did alot of remodeling, traveling and the dip in the market put me back under. Wouldnt take much to be towing the line again.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on June 07, 2018, 06:21:49 AM
I'm usually all about stealth wealth but fuck it!  Interwebs anonymity is partial stealth.....

$2.4M net worth. 38yo with stay at home wife and two young kids. Should reach $3M sometime in 2019 (market willing).  Already FI but I'm in the upside down world of not knowing what to do if I were to leave work.  Maybe once my current batch of RSUs vest in a couple years and if the wife joins the work force I'll sit on the couch and watch Jerry Springer reruns.

Stealth wealth is fabulous.   All cash-no flash. 

The last few market days have pushed us over the 2MM mark.  Putting a downpayment on the retirement house in a few weeks.   May be back in the class of 2019 if the market holds. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on June 07, 2018, 11:11:03 AM
I'm usually all about stealth wealth but fuck it!  Interwebs anonymity is partial stealth.....

$2.4M net worth. 38yo with stay at home wife and two young kids. Should reach $3M sometime in 2019 (market willing).  Already FI but I'm in the upside down world of not knowing what to do if I were to leave work.  Maybe once my current batch of RSUs vest in a couple years and if the wife joins the work force I'll sit on the couch and watch Jerry Springer reruns.

Stealth wealth is fabulous.   


All cash - no flash.



The last few market ddays have pushed us over the 2MM mark.  Putting a downpayment on the retirement house in a few weeks.   May be back in the class of 2019 if the market holds.
Love this! Oh wait, is that too flashy?  It doesn't have sparkles, so it's okay, right?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on June 07, 2018, 12:04:53 PM
I'm usually all about stealth wealth but fuck it!  Interwebs anonymity is partial stealth.....

$2.4M net worth. 38yo with stay at home wife and two young kids. Should reach $3M sometime in 2019 (market willing).  Already FI but I'm in the upside down world of not knowing what to do if I were to leave work.  Maybe once my current batch of RSUs vest in a couple years and if the wife joins the work force I'll sit on the couch and watch Jerry Springer reruns.

Stealth wealth is fabulous.   


All cash - no flash.



The last few market ddays have pushed us over the 2MM mark.  Putting a downpayment on the retirement house in a few weeks.   May be back in the class of 2019 if the market holds.
Love this! Oh wait, is that too flashy?  It doesn't have sparkles, so it's okay, right?

Dicey, in my most southern accent possible.   YOU are a mess!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on June 08, 2018, 02:31:48 AM
I'm usually all about stealth wealth but fuck it!  Interwebs anonymity is partial stealth.....

$2.4M net worth. 38yo with stay at home wife and two young kids. Should reach $3M sometime in 2019 (market willing).  Already FI but I'm in the upside down world of not knowing what to do if I were to leave work.  Maybe once my current batch of RSUs vest in a couple years and if the wife joins the work force I'll sit on the couch and watch Jerry Springer reruns.

Stealth wealth is fabulous.   


All cash - no flash.



The last few market ddays have pushed us over the 2MM mark.  Putting a downpayment on the retirement house in a few weeks.   May be back in the class of 2019 if the market holds.
Love this! Oh wait, is that too flashy?  It doesn't have sparkles, so it's okay, right?

Dicey, in my most southern accent possible.   YOU are a mess!
Oh, Bateaux, bless your heart, thank you! (Snirt. Did you hear my southern accent too? )
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on June 08, 2018, 08:19:57 AM
We are past $3M with the crazy market, but plan to invest a bunch in a remodel, which may drop our cash flow, but positively increase our house value. So . . . I'll keep coming back & consider this my "home". I have no idea how property values in the bay area will continue to grow/drop/stabilize. After we pay for this remodel, we will do other facepunch worthy things like potentially buying a rental property in Hawaii. So, there's that.

I'm concerned that the housing market just cannot maintain its current trajectory. I'm in the Bay Area. We've past the $3.4M mark, but much of that is in real estate, which is . . . unsteady IMO.

We're now past $3.5M, which feels quite surreal. I'm a waffler on my FIRE date, but this sort of puts it into perspective. I keep promising I will set a revised target & actually do something. (Again, about 1/2 of that is in real estate, so not liquid).
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on June 08, 2018, 08:51:26 AM
We are past $3M with the crazy market, but plan to invest a bunch in a remodel, which may drop our cash flow, but positively increase our house value. So . . . I'll keep coming back & consider this my "home". I have no idea how property values in the bay area will continue to grow/drop/stabilize. After we pay for this remodel, we will do other facepunch worthy things like potentially buying a rental property in Hawaii. So, there's that.

I'm concerned that the housing market just cannot maintain its current trajectory. I'm in the Bay Area. We've past the $3.4M mark, but much of that is in real estate, which is . . . unsteady IMO.

We're now past $3.5M, which feels quite surreal. I'm a waffler on my FIRE date, but this sort of puts it into perspective. I keep promising I will set a revised target & actually do something. (Again, about 1/2 of that is in real estate, so not liquid).

Pull the plug and enjoy the rest of your life.   You've won!  Now, get out there and enjoy the bliss.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on June 08, 2018, 09:02:38 AM
We are past $3M with the crazy market, but plan to invest a bunch in a remodel, which may drop our cash flow, but positively increase our house value. So . . . I'll keep coming back & consider this my "home". I have no idea how property values in the bay area will continue to grow/drop/stabilize. After we pay for this remodel, we will do other facepunch worthy things like potentially buying a rental property in Hawaii. So, there's that.

I'm concerned that the housing market just cannot maintain its current trajectory. I'm in the Bay Area. We've past the $3.4M mark, but much of that is in real estate, which is . . . unsteady IMO.

We're now past $3.5M, which feels quite surreal. I'm a waffler on my FIRE date, but this sort of puts it into perspective. I keep promising I will set a revised target & actually do something. (Again, about 1/2 of that is in real estate, so not liquid).

Pull the plug and enjoy the rest of your life.   You've won!  Now, get out there and enjoy the bliss.
That's me, over here, waving from my corner of the Bay Area, in my stupidly expensive house, not mansion.  My vote is eerily similar to Bateaux'. Get out there and enjoy the days as soon as you can!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: markbike528CBX on June 08, 2018, 09:11:33 AM
We are past $3M with the crazy market, but plan to invest a bunch in a remodel, which may drop our cash flow, but positively increase our house value. So . . . I'll keep coming back & consider this my "home". I have no idea how property values in the bay area will continue to grow/drop/stabilize. After we pay for this remodel, we will do other facepunch worthy things like potentially buying a rental property in Hawaii. So, there's that.

I'm concerned that the housing market just cannot maintain its current trajectory. I'm in the Bay Area. We've past the $3.4M mark, but much of that is in real estate, which is . . . unsteady IMO.

We're now past $3.5M, which feels quite surreal. I'm a waffler on my FIRE date, but this sort of puts it into perspective. I keep promising I will set a revised target & actually do something. (Again, about 1/2 of that is in real estate, so not liquid).

Pull the plug and enjoy the rest of your life.   You've won!  Now, get out there and enjoy the bliss.

@Bateaux, great advice!   You should take your own advice seriously.  Since you are in this thread, you should consider joining us in the 2018 cohort.  As OP of the 2019 thread, you have my permission, if that's what it takes :-)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on June 08, 2018, 09:13:48 AM
We are past $3M with the crazy market, but plan to invest a bunch in a remodel, which may drop our cash flow, but positively increase our house value. So . . . I'll keep coming back & consider this my "home". I have no idea how property values in the bay area will continue to grow/drop/stabilize. After we pay for this remodel, we will do other facepunch worthy things like potentially buying a rental property in Hawaii. So, there's that.

I'm concerned that the housing market just cannot maintain its current trajectory. I'm in the Bay Area. We've past the $3.4M mark, but much of that is in real estate, which is . . . unsteady IMO.

We're now past $3.5M, which feels quite surreal. I'm a waffler on my FIRE date, but this sort of puts it into perspective. I keep promising I will set a revised target & actually do something. (Again, about 1/2 of that is in real estate, so not liquid).

Pull the plug and enjoy the rest of your life.   You've won!  Now, get out there and enjoy the bliss.
That's me, over here, waving from my corner of the Bay Area, in my stupidly expensive house, not mansion.  My vote is eerily similar to Bateaux'. Get out there and enjoy the days as soon as you can!

Whereabouts are you, Dicey? My current conundrum is, while I'm totally done with work (in my mind, haha), I've been offered an opportunity to have a side role (with current company) where I can teach leadership & development classes. I've always thought that would be something I'd want to try out in a flexible FIRE world, and this would be a risk free way to do that. Also, one of my people managers is leaving at the end of the month, and if I also leave, it would make things incredibly challenging for some of my favorite people at work. But, there is never a good time, and I need to remind myself of that. I've promised myself that a realistic end date (no wiggle room, no excuses) is something I need to come to emotional grips with.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Dicey on June 08, 2018, 09:41:26 AM
We are past $3M with the crazy market, but plan to invest a bunch in a remodel, which may drop our cash flow, but positively increase our house value. So . . . I'll keep coming back & consider this my "home". I have no idea how property values in the bay area will continue to grow/drop/stabilize. After we pay for this remodel, we will do other facepunch worthy things like potentially buying a rental property in Hawaii. So, there's that.

I'm concerned that the housing market just cannot maintain its current trajectory. I'm in the Bay Area. We've past the $3.4M mark, but much of that is in real estate, which is . . . unsteady IMO.

We're now past $3.5M, which feels quite surreal. I'm a waffler on my FIRE date, but this sort of puts it into perspective. I keep promising I will set a revised target & actually do something. (Again, about 1/2 of that is in real estate, so not liquid).

Pull the plug and enjoy the rest of your life.   You've won!  Now, get out there and enjoy the bliss.
That's me, over here, waving from my corner of the Bay Area, in my stupidly expensive house, not mansion.  My vote is eerily similar to Bateaux'. Get out there and enjoy the days as soon as you can!

Whereabouts are you, Dicey? My current conundrum is, while I'm totally done with work (in my mind, haha), I've been offered an opportunity to have a side role (with current company) where I can teach leadership & development classes. I've always thought that would be something I'd want to try out in a flexible FIRE world, and this would be a risk free way to do that. Also, one of my people managers is leaving at the end of the month, and if I also leave, it would make things incredibly challenging for some of my favorite people at work. But, there is never a good time, and I need to remind myself of that. I've promised myself that a realistic end date (no wiggle room, no excuses) is something I need to come to emotional grips with.
One of the many gifts of having cancer in my early twenties is that I deeply understand how much it's not about work. It will always go on without me, no matter how fantastic I was at my job (Hint: quite competent, but no superstar). Same for my Post-FIRE volunteer activities. As to my whereabouts, I'll PM you. I may or may not be in the Witness* Protection Program.

* I live fairly close to a religious denomination's main meeting place. They regularly knock on my door. I call them my WPP and I'm always nice to them when I open the door.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: Bateaux on June 08, 2018, 10:40:23 AM
We are past $3M with the crazy market, but plan to invest a bunch in a remodel, which may drop our cash flow, but positively increase our house value. So . . . I'll keep coming back & consider this my "home". I have no idea how property values in the bay area will continue to grow/drop/stabilize. After we pay for this remodel, we will do other facepunch worthy things like potentially buying a rental property in Hawaii. So, there's that.

I'm concerned that the housing market just cannot maintain its current trajectory. I'm in the Bay Area. We've past the $3.4M mark, but much of that is in real estate, which is . . . unsteady IMO.

We're now past $3.5M, which feels quite surreal. I'm a waffler on my FIRE date, but this sort of puts it into perspective. I keep promising I will set a revised target & actually do something. (Again, about 1/2 of that is in real estate, so not liquid).

Pull the plug and enjoy the rest of your life.   You've won!  Now, get out there and enjoy the bliss.

@Bateaux, great advice!   You should take your own advice seriously.  Since you are in this thread, you should consider joining us in the 2018 cohort.  As OP of the 2019 thread, you have my permission, if that's what it takes :-)

We're absolutely working on it.   2019 is the earliest unfortunately.   We have two sons to keep in health care a we bit longer and help eject them into the working world.   BUT!  It is possible it's months to go and not years at this point.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on June 08, 2018, 11:20:23 AM
If you're house rich you should consider Harry Sit's blog about how to utilize that toward financing one's life, and not have to move.

https://thefinancebuff.com/fund-retirement-paid-off-home.html
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on June 08, 2018, 04:16:56 PM
S&P500 a mere 3.2% below all time high..:)

That puts us at about 2.544M if I count the silly pension valuations and probably cracks the $3M mark with house.

All seems quite surreal.

Now we have just dropped some serious coin this month i.e..

$4000 on new deck materials
$1000 on my TIG welding set up
$1700 on flights to Europe.

All said and done we will probably spend $40k this year.. but we get $20k in rent.. Like when will I stop worrying that we don't have enough $$$?

Habits of a lifetime I guess?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on June 08, 2018, 08:54:22 PM
S&P500 a mere 3.2% below all time high..:)

That puts us at about 2.544M if I count the silly pension valuations and probably cracks the $3M mark with house.

All seems quite surreal.

Now we have just dropped some serious coin this month i.e..

$4000 on new deck materials
$1000 on my TIG welding set up
$1700 on flights to Europe.

All said and done we will probably spend $40k this year.. but we get $20k in rent.. Like when will I stop worrying that we don't have enough $$$?

Habits of a lifetime I guess?

Love it.  Keep us posted.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: FireAndFree on June 10, 2018, 03:19:15 AM
Well that happened faster than expected. We just crossed the $3M mark. I guess it's time for a new thread?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Roland of Gilead on June 10, 2018, 08:12:41 AM
Well that happened faster than expected. We just crossed the $3M mark. I guess it's time for a new thread?

Might want to recalculate on Monday evening before getting too excited.   I think Trump's G7 tantrum is going to bring markets down 1% to 2% on Monday.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on June 10, 2018, 10:32:44 AM
Nice job though.. Is that liquid or does that include the house?

Personally I ignore the house because its not clear to me how to accurately value it, so in effect you end up guessing at a number which seems less than meaningful to me at least.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on June 10, 2018, 07:59:19 PM
Well that happened faster than expected. We just crossed the $3M mark. I guess it's time for a new thread?

Might want to recalculate on Monday evening before getting too excited.   I think Trump's G7 tantrum is going to bring markets down 1% to 2% on Monday.


Yes on that. And if Trump bungles us into a war with North Korea and/or Iran you can expect a 70% drop in the stock market.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on June 10, 2018, 09:14:36 PM
Well that happened faster than expected. We just crossed the $3M mark. I guess it's time for a new thread?

Might want to recalculate on Monday evening before getting too excited.   I think Trump's G7 tantrum is going to bring markets down 1% to 2% on Monday.


Yes on that. And if Trump bungles us into a war with North Korea and/or Iran you can expect a 70% drop in the stock market.
70%? Really? Is that a promise?  If it is, I'll be scrounging up all the cash I can and going on a stock shopping spree. Yippee!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Roland of Gilead on June 10, 2018, 09:52:52 PM
70%? Really? Is that a promise?  If it is, I'll be scrounging up all the cash I can and going on a stock shopping spree. Yippee!

If we get in a war with North Korea, which will probably draw in China and some type of nuclear exchange, you can go on a stock shopping spree while I go to Costco and buy bulk everything that lasts for awhile.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on June 11, 2018, 12:05:26 AM
70%? Really? Is that a promise?  If it is, I'll be scrounging up all the cash I can and going on a stock shopping spree. Yippee!

If we get in a war with North Korea, which will probably draw in China and some type of nuclear exchange, you can go on a stock shopping spree while I go to Costco and buy bulk everything that lasts for awhile.
Lol, I live in earthquake country and Costco is my usual grocery store, so we're fairly well covered in terms of supplies. I was mostly gently poking fun at the precision of DAA's prediction. 70%? Okay. I'm not going to shy away from stock shopping if a big drop happens.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on June 11, 2018, 06:59:33 AM
70%? Really? Is that a promise?  If it is, I'll be scrounging up all the cash I can and going on a stock shopping spree. Yippee!

If we get in a war with North Korea, which will probably draw in China and some type of nuclear exchange, you can go on a stock shopping spree while I go to Costco and buy bulk everything that lasts for awhile.
Lol, I live in earthquake country and Costco is my usual grocery store, so we're fairly well covered in terms of supplies. I was mostly gently poking fun at the precision of DAA's prediction. 70%? Okay. I'm not going to shy away from stock shopping if a big drop happens.

Ohhh nooo!  It's too late to buy beans!  Buy bullets!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on June 11, 2018, 11:52:07 AM
Don't just walk! Run !!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Melisande on July 09, 2018, 04:06:31 PM
Just did my semi-annual net worth calculation and we are now at $2,350,000, up $122,000 from the beginning of the year. Yay!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on July 09, 2018, 05:03:02 PM
Nice, so thats a 5.4% increase. But the S&P 500 is only up 3.2% (plus dividends).

So clearly you are invested in something that has paid a higher return.. Is a bunch of this home equity perhaps?

Care to share?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: 2Birds1Stone on July 09, 2018, 05:06:38 PM
Nice, so thats a 5.4% increase. But the S&amp;P 500 is only up 3.2% (plus dividends).

So clearly you are invested in something that has paid a higher return.. Is a bunch of this home equity perhaps?

Care to share?
Contributions?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Melisande on July 09, 2018, 05:57:54 PM
Nice, so thats a 5.4% increase. But the S&P 500 is only up 3.2% (plus dividends).

So clearly you are invested in something that has paid a higher return.. Is a bunch of this home equity perhaps?

Care to share?

About $30,000 is additional home equity. We also contributed about $25,000 from current income, so that makes only about $67,000 investment returns. We have $1,920,000 in investments, so that means about a 3.5% return. Not that much above the market.  We just have a lot of high risk/high reward index funds with TIAA & Vanguard.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on July 09, 2018, 11:44:32 PM
I've dropped out of the 2MM plus club again.  Down payment and closing costs on Florida retirement home sucked away cash.  Sucks to be in debt again, even though it's less than 10 percent of our net worth.  I don't like counting real estate as an asset.  Now on to rebuilding the cash kitty so FIRE can get back on schedule.   Retirement accounts are blossoming nicely however.   
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on July 10, 2018, 01:59:00 AM
I've dropped out of the 2MM plus club again.  Down payment and closing costs on Florida retirement home sucked away cash.  Sucks to be in debt again, even though it's less than 10 percent of our net worth.  I don't like counting real estate as an asset.  Now on to rebuilding the cash kitty so FIRE can get back on schedule.   Retirement accounts are blossoming nicely however.

Easy come, easy go
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on July 10, 2018, 11:21:11 AM
Just wrapped up our mid year check in, and we're at $3.7M. (This includes our house value). We started the year at $2.9ish, so it's a good uptick. Gains are coming from: additional 401K investment (we max in January from our bonuses), stock market, corporate stock vests (part of our overall compensation package) + quite a big swing in housing value.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on July 10, 2018, 11:36:45 AM
Nice job on the 3.7M..:)

I have not added ours up but looking at the S&P500 we should be over $2M Liquid and pension valuations have increased to about $525k.

House seems to be worth about $500k but thats a SWAG due to very few direct comps in the area.

So roughly $3M total. No savings growth as we have FIRED.

Seems kind of irrelevant though as we will barely crack a 1% WR this year.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Saving4Fire on July 31, 2018, 01:17:07 PM
I'm in the 1-2m club, however yesterday my wife received unexpectedly good news (not inheritance) and in the next few weeks we're going to be in the "and beyond" club.   I'm in a state of shock and I'm currently trying to reorient my life expectations.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on July 31, 2018, 01:26:18 PM
I'm in the 1-2m club, however yesterday my wife received unexpectedly good news (not inheritance) and in the next few weeks we're going to be in the "and beyond" club.   I'm in a state of shock and I'm currently trying to reorient my life expectations.

Wow - that's great news! How are you thinking of adjusting your plans given the news?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Saving4Fire on July 31, 2018, 02:03:17 PM
I'm in the 1-2m club, however yesterday my wife received unexpectedly good news (not inheritance) and in the next few weeks we're going to be in the "and beyond" club.   I'm in a state of shock and I'm currently trying to reorient my life expectations.

Wow - that's great news! How are you thinking of adjusting your plans given the news?

To be candid, I don't know and I'm still trying to process the change.  After this transaction completes we'll be worth around 3.5m.   We're dual income professionals with no kids in our early 40's, so we have a lot of options.

I'm sure this money will be in a trust for my wife, so technically if we ever divorce I wouldn't see any of it, which I'm fine with.   Regardless, this is a big change for me.  Most of our current net worth (1.75m) is from my super saver ways and higher compensation. Conversely, my wife is more of a spendypants by MMM standards (but way better than the average American).   I've never resented her spending and lower savings rate, however I planned on working longer to ensure she can retire comfortably too.   However, now that she has a large nest egg my decisions can be more selfish.

That said, I really like my job and I don't see myself leaving in the foreseeable future... but you never know.

It's also worth adding - her compensation is really starting to take off and she has no desire to retire, which I'm also fine with.   I'm more than happy to have her be the breadwinner of the family.  :)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on July 31, 2018, 08:56:37 PM
My progress is quite slow these days due to my House in Sydney dropping in value by around $170K over the past 12 months.... luckily that AUD and not USD I suppose.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on July 31, 2018, 09:12:45 PM
Still temporally out of the 2MM class.  Buying the house in Florida stripped us of cash for the downpayment.   We're gaining that ground back rapidly though.  Got an offer to sell our least valuable real estate, a non-rented rental.  That would get us well on our way and rebuild our cash.  I don't consider real estate as an asset, more a liability and money pit in my experience.   JL Collins has it right, rent a nice place and let the landlord fix the toilets.   I should have followed his advice.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on August 01, 2018, 01:41:17 AM
Still temporally out of the 2MM class.  Buying the house in Florida stripped us of cash for the downpayment.   We're gaining that ground back rapidly though.  Got an offer to sell our least valuable real estate, a non-rented rental.  That would get us well on our way and rebuild our cash.  I don't consider real estate as an asset, more a liability and money pit in my experience.   JL Collins has it right, rent a nice place and let the landlord fix the toilets.   I should have followed his advice.

In my case, I have made a good portion of my NW from property capital gains. But, now I have a stash, my appetite for further property speculation is pretty much zero. Slowly rebalancing to mostly stocks.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: bigchrisb on August 01, 2018, 01:44:59 AM
I've ticked up to $3.2m, mostly from stock market appreciation (Australian shares).  I'm up $267k since leaving my main job at the start of October last year, so nice to know I've dodged at least the first year of sequence of returns risk.   Income from investments (less interest) look like $126k this year, with spending well below that.  Staying in the $3m bracket really depends on what the markets choose to do.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on August 01, 2018, 02:48:39 AM
Still temporally out of the 2MM class.  Buying the house in Florida stripped us of cash for the downpayment.   We're gaining that ground back rapidly though.  Got an offer to sell our least valuable real estate, a non-rented rental.  That would get us well on our way and rebuild our cash.  I don't consider real estate as an asset, more a liability and money pit in my experience.   JL Collins has it right, rent a nice place and let the landlord fix the toilets.   I should have followed his advice.

In my case, I have made a good portion of my NW from property capital gains. But, now I have a stash, my appetite for further property speculation is pretty much zero. Slowly rebalancing to mostly stocks.

Some can work real estate to their advantage.  I just seem to lack the skill. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on August 01, 2018, 07:42:08 AM
Still temporally out of the 2MM class.  Buying the house in Florida stripped us of cash for the downpayment.   We're gaining that ground back rapidly though.  Got an offer to sell our least valuable real estate, a non-rented rental.  That would get us well on our way and rebuild our cash.  I don't consider real estate as an asset, more a liability and money pit in my experience.   JL Collins has it right, rent a nice place and let the landlord fix the toilets.   I should have followed his advice.

In my case, I have made a good portion of my NW from property capital gains. But, now I have a stash, my appetite for further property speculation is pretty much zero. Slowly rebalancing to mostly stocks.

Funny how that happens. Our house (complete with rentals) has gradually reduced from 100% of our net worth to about 16%.

At one time I was "landlord of the year".. Now I secretly hope my renters burn the rental trailer house to the ground and leave!

Maybe then I could sell our property and then lease it back from the new owner?...:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on August 01, 2018, 08:12:38 AM
Still temporally out of the 2MM class.  Buying the house in Florida stripped us of cash for the downpayment.   We're gaining that ground back rapidly though.  Got an offer to sell our least valuable real estate, a non-rented rental.  That would get us well on our way and rebuild our cash.  I don't consider real estate as an asset, more a liability and money pit in my experience.   JL Collins has it right, rent a nice place and let the landlord fix the toilets.   I should have followed his advice.

In my case, I have made a good portion of my NW from property capital gains. But, now I have a stash, my appetite for further property speculation is pretty much zero. Slowly rebalancing to mostly stocks.

Some can work real estate to their advantage.  I just seem to lack the skill.
Time heals all wounds. It also creates a lot of real estate "success" stories.

In many cases, the investor would have done better in equities, but the threat of losing their home forces people to make mortgage payments. Without that incentive, humans are far less likely to fill their investment accounts with similar vigor.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on August 01, 2018, 11:34:41 AM
Residential property has averaged 10.2% pa returns in Australia over the past 20 years (source: Russell Investments Long aterm Investing Report 2018). And with generous tax incentives adding fuel to the fire itís been an easy way to accumulate wealth.

But, of course such gains for an asset that provides no more and no less than it did 20 years ago must come to an end, and in fact globally there is a retreat in residential real estate prices in most major cities. The party is over, banks and governments have realised the dangers of the entire population being ridiculously leveraged, and speculator money is moving elsewhere. Unlike stocks there is a limit to what houses are worth, as ultimately housing needs to be able to be afforded by the local population.

I know I should sell my Sydney house, prices will certainly retreat further, but there is this damn emotional attachment which is stopping us pull the trigger for the time being.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on August 01, 2018, 02:33:20 PM
10.2% for 20 years?..Damn!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on August 01, 2018, 08:39:36 PM
10.2% for 20 years?..Damn!

Yeah, if only I had a crystal ball in my early 20s

Meanwhile Australian shares would have given you 8.8%pa
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on August 01, 2018, 08:46:44 PM
10.2% for 20 years?..Damn!

Yeah, if only I had a crystal ball in my early 20s

Meanwhile Australian shares would have given you 8.8%pa

Holy crap!  How do young people ever save enough to buy a house in a market like that. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on August 01, 2018, 09:35:19 PM
Generally they canít. Parents, who own homes, are often footing the deposit. Young people are now far more likely to rent and invest in stocks than previous generations.

The whole thing is really unhealthy and totally unsustainable.

But as I said, the govt has realized a bit late that high house prices is not a good thing and has taken some measures to make housing investment less attractive to foreign investors, and had increased lending standards to reduce the capacity of locals to borrow so much. More still needs to be done, and will be with time I am sure. But unwinding the bubble needs to be done very slowly to avoid huge negative impacts on the economy.

If the last 20 years had 10.2% growth pa, I would expect the next 10 years to have less than 2% growth pa.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on August 01, 2018, 10:36:58 PM
or -2%
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on August 02, 2018, 06:54:27 AM
I think Australia is in the unusual situation of not having had a recession in like 20 years or more.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on August 02, 2018, 11:34:47 AM
or -2%

Very possible.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on August 02, 2018, 11:36:42 AM
I think Australia is in the unusual situation of not having had a recession in like 20 years or more.

Technically this is correct, although it does seem there was a small amount of cooking the books to keep this pretty impressive fact alive.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: bigchrisb on August 02, 2018, 02:10:49 PM
I think Australia is in the unusual situation of not having had a recession in like 20 years or more.
Not since 1991 on official stats.  Sydney real estate is particularly warped. Over 80 suburbs have median prices above $2m, there as 5 years ago that list was 5 rich enclaves.  There are plenty of Sydneysiders that would be in the $2m club, based only on buying their house 20 years ago. Combined with construction being 9% of Australian employment, when it unwinds my opinion is that it will get ugly. I'll be happy holding my home, and a good chunk of international index funds.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on August 04, 2018, 12:11:23 PM
Well as of the market close Friday our NW has hit a new high.. Even with with a small drawdown (FIRED).

This includes savings plus pension valuations.. Our savings are still slightly under the peak in January
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: JoJoP on August 07, 2018, 06:41:47 PM
Well as of the market close Friday our NW has hit a new high.. Even with with a small drawdown (FIRED).

This includes savings plus pension valuations.. Our savings are still slightly under the peak in January

YAY!  That's great news Exflyboy!  Did you FIRE?  How's life treating ya now?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on August 07, 2018, 07:14:58 PM
Well as of the market close Friday our NW has hit a new high.. Even with with a small drawdown (FIRED).

This includes savings plus pension valuations.. Our savings are still slightly under the peak in January

YAY!  That's great news Exflyboy!  Did you FIRE?  How's life treating ya now?

I did I have not done any paid work for over 2 years now. Life is great although I have been getting a bit lazy mainly because its so hot.

I'm thinking I'm at the point where not having a job feels normal...:)

Maybe I'll do a little paid work at some point, or maybe not!

Life is really pretty freaking awesome all in all..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on August 08, 2018, 05:01:51 AM
A few paychecks, dividends and upticks in the market has us back over 2MM again.  The FIRE goal of 2.5MM will hopefully develop by August 2020.  August 2020 will be here quickly.   It took me almost six months to find a house for retirement and close on the loan.  That time flew by.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on August 08, 2018, 12:04:09 PM
A few paychecks, dividends and upticks in the market has us back over 2MM again.  The FIRE goal of 2.5MM will hopefully develop by August 2020.  August 2020 will be here quickly.   It took me almost six months to find a house for retirement and close on the loan.  That time flew by.

There you go.. I knew you had to be close..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: MiserlyMiser on August 22, 2018, 04:00:32 PM
Hi, all!  Iím in the club. I canít tell anyone IRL, and it feels weird to say it even here. Iím well past what I thought was my FIRE number, so Iím trying to get used to the idea of retiring, and also to practice not panicking at market fluctuations (Iím mainly invested in equities, although Iíve been diversifying more lately). 
It feels like Iíve been stalled out at the same NW for a while, but I think it might just be that as my NW has grown, my contributions have become less important compared to investment growth, so the rate of growth has slowed down, while in absolute terms Iím still plugging along as before.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on August 23, 2018, 12:49:07 AM
Hi, all!  Iím in the club. I canít tell anyone IRL, and it feels weird to say it even here. Iím well past what I thought was my FIRE number, so Iím trying to get used to the idea of retiring, and also to practice not panicking at market fluctuations (Iím mainly invested in equities, although Iíve been diversifying more lately). 
It feels like Iíve been stalled out at the same NW for a while, but I think it might just be that as my NW has grown, my contributions have become less important compared to investment growth, so the rate of growth has slowed down, while in absolute terms Iím still plugging along as before.

Welcome to the 2 comma and beyond club.  If you are like me, that second million was almost too easy.   Now what you save has less impact on growth.  The wealth has become self replicating.   A little over a month ago we put a down payment on a second home.   That knocked down our accounts a bit.  We've almost recovered that money in a little over a month.  Sometimes I think this can't be legal.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: MiserlyMiser on August 23, 2018, 09:25:07 AM
Hi, all!  I’m in the club. I can’t tell anyone IRL, and it feels weird to say it even here. I’m well past what I thought was my FIRE number, so I’m trying to get used to the idea of retiring, and also to practice not panicking at market fluctuations (I’m mainly invested in equities, although I’ve been diversifying more lately). 
It feels like I’ve been stalled out at the same NW for a while, but I think it might just be that as my NW has grown, my contributions have become less important compared to investment growth, so the rate of growth has slowed down, while in absolute terms I’m still plugging along as before.

Welcome to the 2 comma and beyond club.  If you are like me, that second million was almost too easy.   Now what you save has less impact on growth.  The wealth has become self replicating.   A little over a month ago we put a down payment on a second home.   That knocked down our accounts a bit.  We've almost recovered that money in a little over a month.  Sometimes I think this can't be legal.

I tend to notice the negative more, and it feels so absurd to see my NW take a $50k+ hit in a single day (rare, but it happens)—that’s more than some of my friends/family make in a year!!!!  Somehow that makes more of an impact than when my NW is back to where it was 2 days later.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on August 23, 2018, 04:21:50 PM
It does feel like the good times are coming to a close. I rebalanced the portfolio today as stock ETFs hit 84% of the total..

We are now running 80/20 (stock/bond) ignoring the pensions. If the market tanks I'll happily roll to 90/10..:)

Nobody really knows of course.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on August 24, 2018, 12:11:02 PM
And of course I rebalanced at exactly the wrong time.. Well not really..:)

I was just thinking that if the market holds close to its current numbers that most of the people on this forum will be the richest they have ever been!

Thats pretty cool!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on August 24, 2018, 05:07:59 PM
And of course I rebalanced at exactly the wrong time.. Well not really..:)

I was just thinking that if the market holds close to its current numbers that most of the people on this forum will be the richest they have ever been!

Thats pretty cool!
Aw hell, EFB, every day I'm the richest I've ever been, no matter what the stock market does.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on August 25, 2018, 03:01:54 AM
And of course I rebalanced at exactly the wrong time.. Well not really..:)

I was just thinking that if the market holds close to its current numbers that most of the people on this forum will be the richest they have ever been!

Thats pretty cool!
Aw hell, EFB, every day I'm the richest I've ever been, no matter what the stock market does.

Well said Dicey.   

By the way we are at a new high point as of today. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on August 26, 2018, 11:14:05 PM
Rich as well as wealthy..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: PhrugalPhan on August 27, 2018, 04:53:15 PM
Hi, all!  Iím in the club. I canít tell anyone IRL, and it feels weird to say it even here. Iím well past what I thought was my FIRE number, so Iím trying to get used to the idea of retiring, and also to practice not panicking at market fluctuations (Iím mainly invested in equities, although Iíve been diversifying more lately). 
It feels like Iíve been stalled out at the same NW for a while, but I think it might just be that as my NW has grown, my contributions have become less important compared to investment growth, so the rate of growth has slowed down, while in absolute terms Iím still plugging along as before.

Welcome to the 2 comma and beyond club.  If you are like me, that second million was almost too easy.   Now what you save has less impact on growth.  The wealth has become self replicating.   A little over a month ago we put a down payment on a second home.   That knocked down our accounts a bit.  We've almost recovered that money in a little over a month.  Sometimes I think this can't be legal.
To make it to this group I had to include my GF's TSP numbers and our pensions.  Just today if I add in all my financial numbers (add in $35k in savings), my total is $955k, her's is up to $1,058k.  We're over $2 Mil!!!.  And I don't have to include my house (paid off), nor either of our pensions ($30k/yr for her starting this January - I'm vested at $31k/yr starting in 4 years).  And she finally realizes our finances will be fine (she was STILL worrying???).  We need to work on merging our households this winter and fix up my house but having money will make things happen.

And beyond that, I just visited my mother this weekend.  She's self employed at 72, still very active, travelling to Europe yearly, and now I find she has much more money than I ever realized (over $600k).   And she is just finishing upgrading the last room in her house.  So I'm not worrying about her finances either.

But yeah, back to the Miser's point, it still doesn't feel like we are rich, but compared to an extreme percentage we are.  Crazy....
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: JoJoP on August 27, 2018, 05:07:50 PM
Hi, all!  Iím in the club. I canít tell anyone IRL, and it feels weird to say it even here.


Welcome, Miserly!
I felt that way at first, but, with practice, I own it now.  (WHOOOO HOOOO!) 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on August 28, 2018, 12:51:13 AM
Hi, all!  Iím in the club. I canít tell anyone IRL, and it feels weird to say it even here. Iím well past what I thought was my FIRE number, so Iím trying to get used to the idea of retiring, and also to practice not panicking at market fluctuations (Iím mainly invested in equities, although Iíve been diversifying more lately). 
It feels like Iíve been stalled out at the same NW for a while, but I think it might just be that as my NW has grown, my contributions have become less important compared to investment growth, so the rate of growth has slowed down, while in absolute terms Iím still plugging along as before.

Welcome to the 2 comma and beyond club.  If you are like me, that second million was almost too easy.   Now what you save has less impact on growth.  The wealth has become self replicating.   A little over a month ago we put a down payment on a second home.   That knocked down our accounts a bit.  We've almost recovered that money in a little over a month.  Sometimes I think this can't be legal.
To make it to this group I had to include my GF's TSP numbers and our pensions.  Just today if I add in all my financial numbers (add in $35k in savings), my total is $955k, her's is up to $1,058k.  We're over $2 Mil!!!.  And I don't have to include my house (paid off), nor either of our pensions ($30k/yr for her starting this January - I'm vested at $31k/yr starting in 4 years).  And she finally realizes our finances will be fine (she was STILL worrying???).  We need to work on merging our households this winter and fix up my house but having money will make things happen.

And beyond that, I just visited my mother this weekend.  She's self employed at 72, still very active, travelling to Europe yearly, and now I find she has much more money than I ever realized (over $600k).   And she is just finishing upgrading the last room in her house.  So I'm not worrying about her finances either.

But yeah, back to the Miser's point, it still doesn't feel like we are rich, but compared to an extreme percentage we are.  Crazy....

Very well done.  You're in great shape.  Enjoy the freedom.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on September 05, 2018, 10:59:27 AM
Just wrapped up our mid year check in, and we're at $3.7M. (This includes our house value). We started the year at $2.9ish, so it's a good uptick. Gains are coming from: additional 401K investment (we max in January from our bonuses), stock market, corporate stock vests (part of our overall compensation package) + quite a big swing in housing value.

We are closing in on $4M. Note that we have a ton of equity tied up into a very expensive housing market (Bay Area), as well as employee stock options. So, in my mind, it's not "real", but I'll keep tracking it. :-)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on September 05, 2018, 02:52:11 PM
Iíve just reached $1.7 million in liquid assets and have about another $390k in home equity
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on September 05, 2018, 04:08:43 PM
Iíve just reached $1.7 million in liquid assets and have about another $390k in home equity

Cool You're about $0.5M ahead of where I was at your tender age.. Back in 2013.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on September 05, 2018, 06:43:20 PM
Ha. Well I wish I had your mechanical skills in fixing things around the home.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on September 05, 2018, 06:54:40 PM
Terminal cheapness is a great motivator to learn..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on September 14, 2018, 09:19:17 AM
Terminal cheapness is a great motivator to learn..:)
How about "Perpetual Frugality"? It sounds better and possibly like you will live longer.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on September 20, 2018, 09:25:11 AM
I've taken a temporary (hopefully) hiatus from Mustacianism.  Setting up the Florida house has been rather expensive.  I'm happy we chose to make the home purchase while still employed to help absorb the costs.   We made the purchase in July and so far we've made three trips over from Louisiana to get things done.   One thing I've noticed since turning 50 this summer is I can't work hard all day and drive 600 miles with no sleep.  Ultimately we will FIRE and sell the Louisiana house.  That will cut down on lots of the expense and effort we're fighting right now. 
We do love our new home in Florida and can't wait to be there permanently.  Working hard in the yard, cleaning or painting is rewarded with a refreshing dip in the pool with an adult beverage.  We bought the 30 year old, 4,100 square foot home on an acre lot for $237,000, in a golf and country club community.  The HOA is only a $100 a year because amenities are optional.   We may join the social club and gym when we move.  It's about the cost of the YMCA from what we've heard.  I don't golf.  We run, bike and do water sports.  Tennis is included with the gym I think.  We finally have furniture in one bedroom.   We'd been sleeping on a mattress on the floor.  Our final night there last week we slept in a bed!   It was a Craigslist purchase.  It's a $3000 set we bought with a few wear marks for $850.   Also $30 for a U-haul trailer we rented for behind our truck.  We managed to take a day off and tube the beautiful Rainbow River.  Can't wait to enjoy the natural playground that the Nature Coast provides.  It's still possible we will FIRE in 2019 but 2020 looks more likely.  We've depleted a lot of our cash reserves even though our retirement accounts have been very powerful lately.  Right now it's less stressful working a bit longer than adding stress about cash flow.  That's all I've got to report for now.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on September 20, 2018, 10:02:46 AM
Nothing wrong with taking breaks from Mustachianism in my book.  I converted a 600k 401k from an old employer into money market funds instead of S&&P500 index.  Was it a good idea - of course not in a Mustachian sense, but it's been nothing but win-win for me personally.  Let's just say the market goes up 10% this year, that 60k opportunity cost sounds pretty painful.  But it also means I gained over 200k in my remaining portfolio, which is still over 2x my projected ER spending!  And I'm much more relaxed while I do other big things in my life and pretty much ignore the market.  If the market ends up down 10% (or 50%), I'll be much more upset having lost so much (on paper), but at least I'll have that 600k to play with.  Putting it back in the market while it is falling will suck, I know that from 2008, but it gives me peace of mind not to worry about the market this year until I get more time to figure out what I really want.  More passive income and net worth really isn't doing much for me if it's not being used to provide this peace of mind.  So yeah, I guess I'm on hiatus from being an uber-efficient, cold and calculated Mustachian for the rest of this year.  Cheers!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on September 22, 2018, 05:02:35 PM
I call bullshit in the supposed "break". You're doing your own moving, buying used furniture on CL and planning for your post-FIRE future. What could be more mustachian than that? It's not about never spending money, it's about spending in line with your carefully evaluated values. You're killing it, @Bateaux!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on September 23, 2018, 04:51:28 AM
^^^^ this^^^^..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on September 23, 2018, 09:22:28 PM
Thanks for the encouragement guys.  The big beautiful Florida home will likely become the biggest tug to FIRE.   We love it there so much already.  With Fall soon providing refreshing cooler weather the desire will be even stronger.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on September 24, 2018, 08:39:39 AM
It sounds like a beautiful place Bateaux.  Would love to see some pictures of the area if you want to post them.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on September 24, 2018, 11:56:05 AM
I call bullshit in the supposed "break". You're doing your own moving, buying used furniture on CL and planning for your post-FIRE future. What could be more mustachian than that? It's not about never spending money, it's about spending in line with your carefully evaluated values. You're killing it, @Bateaux!

Bullshit or humble brag?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on September 24, 2018, 03:33:41 PM
I call bullshit in the supposed "break". You're doing your own moving, buying used furniture on CL and planning for your post-FIRE future. What could be more mustachian than that? It's not about never spending money, it's about spending in line with your carefully evaluated values. You're killing it, @Bateaux!

Bullshit or humble brag?
1. I've never gotten that impression from Bateaux.
2. This is a safe place. It's allowed, nay encouraged.
3. See #1.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on September 24, 2018, 06:34:09 PM
I call bullshit in the supposed "break". You're doing your own moving, buying used furniture on CL and planning for your post-FIRE future. What could be more mustachian than that? It's not about never spending money, it's about spending in line with your carefully evaluated values. You're killing it, @Bateaux!

Bullshit or humble brag?
1. I've never gotten that impression from Bateaux.
2. This is a safe place. It's allowed, nay encouraged.
3. See #1.

Just an update guys.   I do welcome comments, even criticism.   If it comes from those that scrapped their own way to this thread, It's worth it.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on September 24, 2018, 08:16:16 PM
I call bullshit in the supposed "break". You're doing your own moving, buying used furniture on CL and planning for your post-FIRE future. What could be more mustachian than that? It's not about never spending money, it's about spending in line with your carefully evaluated values. You're killing it, @Bateaux!

Bullshit or humble brag?
1. I've never gotten that impression from Bateaux.
2. This is a safe place. It's allowed, nay encouraged.
3. See #1.

Just an update guys.   I do welcome comments, even criticism.   If it comes from those that scrapped their own way to this thread, It's worth it.
If it had seemed constructive or even tongue in cheek, I would have let it pass...

I adore how civil this place is and aim to help keep it that way. Except, of course, if someone Is in dire need of a face punch, but I haven't thrown many of those lately.

I squeaked over the $100k earning line just once in my career and hit FI as a single person, so I'm definitely a scrapper, but mostly in the sense of advocating for my own financial freedom, not as in picking on others.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on September 24, 2018, 09:00:24 PM
I squeaked over the $100k earning line just once in my career and hit FI as a single person, so I'm definitely a scrapper, but mostly in the sense of advocating for my own financial freedom, not as in picking on others.

That's my story too.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on September 24, 2018, 09:06:38 PM
I call bullshit in the supposed "break". You're doing your own moving, buying used furniture on CL and planning for your post-FIRE future. What could be more mustachian than that? It's not about never spending money, it's about spending in line with your carefully evaluated values. You're killing it, @Bateaux!

Bullshit or humble brag?
1. I've never gotten that impression from Bateaux.
2. This is a safe place. It's allowed, nay encouraged.
3. See #1.

Just an update guys.   I do welcome comments, even criticism.   If it comes from those that scrapped their own way to this thread, It's worth it.
If it had seemed constructive or even tongue in cheek, I would have let it pass...

I adore how civil this place is and aim to help keep it that way. Except, of course, if someone Is in dire need of a face punch, but I haven't thrown many of those lately.

I squeaked over the $100k earning line just once in my career and hit FI as a single person, so I'm definitely a scrapper, but mostly in the sense of advocating for my own financial freedom, not as in picking on others.

Guys, it was certainly meant tongue in cheek. Apologies if it came across differently

I was just laughing because here was a guy with more than $2M saying he wasnít moustachian when he had spent just $200K on a place and was buying 2nd hand furniture. I was feeling he was bragging because he was spending so little compared to my present situation where I have a clownishly expensive inner city house.

I look forward to when I can brag that I am getting free of the rat race to a cheaper place!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on September 24, 2018, 09:26:56 PM
I call bullshit in the supposed "break". You're doing your own moving, buying used furniture on CL and planning for your post-FIRE future. What could be more mustachian than that? It's not about never spending money, it's about spending in line with your carefully evaluated values. You're killing it, @Bateaux!

Bullshit or humble brag?
1. I've never gotten that impression from Bateaux.
2. This is a safe place. It's allowed, nay encouraged.
3. See #1.

Just an update guys.   I do welcome comments, even criticism.   If it comes from those that scrapped their own way to this thread, It's worth it.
If it had seemed constructive or even tongue in cheek, I would have let it pass...

I adore how civil this place is and aim to help keep it that way. Except, of course, if someone Is in dire need of a face punch, but I haven't thrown many of those lately.

I squeaked over the $100k earning line just once in my career and hit FI as a single person, so I'm definitely a scrapper, but mostly in the sense of advocating for my own financial freedom, not as in picking on others.

Guys, it was certainly meant tongue in cheek. Apologies if it came across differently

I was just laughing because here was a guy with more than $2M saying he wasnít moustachian when he had spent just $200K on a place and was buying 2nd hand furniture. I was feeling he was bragging because he was spending so little compared to my present situation where I have a clownishly expensive inner city house.

I look forward to when I can brag that I am getting free of the rat race to a cheaper place!

It's all good Itchy.  I love hearing from all of you.   I was trying to do more of a confession than a brag.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on September 24, 2018, 10:36:03 PM
I call bullshit in the supposed "break". You're doing your own moving, buying used furniture on CL and planning for your post-FIRE future. What could be more mustachian than that? It's not about never spending money, it's about spending in line with your carefully evaluated values. You're killing it, @Bateaux!

Bullshit or humble brag?
1. I've never gotten that impression from Bateaux.
2. This is a safe place. It's allowed, nay encouraged.
3. See #1.

Just an update guys.   I do welcome comments, even criticism.   If it comes from those that scrapped their own way to this thread, It's worth it.
If it had seemed constructive or even tongue in cheek, I would have let it pass...

I adore how civil this place is and aim to help keep it that way. Except, of course, if someone Is in dire need of a face punch, but I haven't thrown many of those lately.

I squeaked over the $100k earning line just once in my career and hit FI as a single person, so I'm definitely a scrapper, but mostly in the sense of advocating for my own financial freedom, not as in picking on others.

Guys, it was certainly meant tongue in cheek. Apologies if it came across differently

I was just laughing because here was a guy with more than $2M saying he wasnít moustachian when he had spent just $200K on a place and was buying 2nd hand furniture. I was feeling he was bragging because he was spending so little compared to my present situation where I have a clownishly expensive inner city house.

I look forward to when I can brag that I am getting free of the rat race to a cheaper place!

It's all good Itchy.  I love hearing from all of you.   I was trying to do more of a confession than a brag.
You are hereby absolved, by the power that has been vested in me. That's MMM power, and it is mighty strong. Strong like walrus, yuk-yuk.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: wannabe-stache on September 25, 2018, 11:50:44 AM
Thanks for the encouragement guys.  The big beautiful Florida home will likely become the biggest tug to FIRE.   We love it there so much already.  With Fall soon providing refreshing cooler weather the desire will be even stronger.

don't hold your breath...not sure where in FL you are but here in miami it's still so fu$#ing hot.

i ran at 5:30 this am, it was 81 degrees, humid and felt like 90.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on September 25, 2018, 02:32:10 PM
Thanks for the encouragement guys.  The big beautiful Florida home will likely become the biggest tug to FIRE.   We love it there so much already.  With Fall soon providing refreshing cooler weather the desire will be even stronger.

don't hold your breath...not sure where in FL you are but here in miami it's still so fu$#ing hot.

i ran at 5:30 this am, it was 81 degrees, humid and felt like 90.

It's Citrus County.  About an hour north of Tampa.  It's devils butthole hot at least half the year.  Same here in gulf coastal Louisiana.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on October 03, 2018, 12:17:03 PM
Well damn I have never had more money than I do right now.. But I am on holiday so I don't trust the security of the WIFI connection to check what we are actually worth..

I think This 6 week European tour has been more than paid for by todays moves..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: bigchrisb on October 05, 2018, 05:19:11 AM
Well damn I have never had more money than I do right now.. But I am on holiday so I don't trust the security of the WIFI connection to check what we are actually worth..

I think This 6 week European tour has been more than paid for by todays moves..:)

I feel much the same. Just did a bucket list diving trip to scapa flow, and saw more cash roll in as dividends than I spent while there. Helps settle down the "fear of not enough" psychology.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on October 05, 2018, 03:33:45 PM
Clearly I spoke too soon and now I have no idea how to pay for this 6 week EU vacation... kidding..;)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on October 06, 2018, 02:12:04 AM
Just checked Mint.  Lost about 25K on paper.   Still over 2M invested as of now.  Wouldn't take much more to drop kick me back to sub 2M right now.   
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on October 06, 2018, 04:44:11 AM
Iíve been lucky that $AUD drop is propping up my stash, which I measure in AUD. I have quite a bit invested in non-AUD investments. And, as I am currently paid in USD I have had a nice pay rise (in AUD) over the course of this year.

Declining property prices in Sydney are starting to cause me a little concern as I approach my FIRE date though..... but we keep having the sell/ hold discussion and keep landing on the hold side.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on October 12, 2018, 04:10:46 AM
-$75K for the week.

My emerging markets investments are showing a loss of 17% for 2018

My house in Sydney has dropped in value by $100k this year.

I am sitting on $50K cash and am thinking I might hold onto that cash and add to it so as to head into FIRE with a bigger cash stash (term deposits) than I was previously contemplating just so I donít need to sell anything for a few years. My total stash looks like it will be a bit lower than I was targeting as ďmy numberĒ.

FIRE date is June next year.

It will be nice not to have to worry about market gyrations for the first few years post FIRE.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on October 12, 2018, 05:51:00 AM
Dipping well below the 2M invested threshold now.  Currently about 1.94M which is a 100K plus drop from the recent high.  I'm very happy to be still working.  I've set 2M invested as the floor of the action level.   During which times all unnecessary spending will be cut and employment will be sought.  I have relatives who retired prior to the  great recession.  Once the recession hit they waited too late to curb spending and too late to seek additional employment.   They thought they had plenty invested prior to the drop.  Now they have to work lesser paying jobs in their 70s.  They unfortunately didn't have the knowledge and hindsight we have today.  Many never dreamed how deep the losses would be. 
Seeing 100K evaporate so quickly was an eye opener for me.   I'm going to buy more security with time working. 
I just don't ever want to be poor again.  I'm not wasting my life working now for a large amount of money, so much as I did when poor and working for almost nothing.   I'm filled with regret for the ignorance of my youth. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on October 12, 2018, 08:01:04 AM
I hear you Bateaux

I canít tell you how many times I have had the should we or shouldnít we talk with my DW.

Her family all live really old, so she could well have 60 years ahead of her post FIRE. I wouldnít want for her to be struggling financially in the 2nd half of those years after I am gone (no one in my family lives long).

I am still committed to FIREing next year, but I canít say that I am 100% sure it is the right decision.

But I am so sick of the indecisiveness so for my DWís sanity I have had to commit to a decision and stop flip flopping..... or at least flip flopping less frequently 😝

DW plans to continue working maybe 3-6 months each year, so this gives us a little added security.

But, 1 year of me working full time would prob give the same financial outcome as DW working 15 years at 3 months a year. This makes the decision (re my obligation to her financial security in old age) a difficult one. I can make the difference. Of course there can be no guarantees, but the bigger the stash, the more the certainty.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: MiserlyMiser on October 12, 2018, 08:25:29 AM
I was on my way here to complain that my investments have dropped $200k over the past few weeks and see that others have posted on the same topic.  I'm still working, and I'm trying to see this as practice for keeping my cool when I see large market fluctuations once I've retired.  To make myself feel better, I tallied up my spending during September, and I'm still comfortably within a 3% withdrawal rate, even with my smaller portfolio.  It still doesn't feel good to see such a drop, though :(
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: onlykelsey on October 12, 2018, 08:40:02 AM
I don't belong here but I've been binge reading so I'm posting to follow.  Maybe I'll see you in the back half of my 30s.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: 2Birds1Stone on October 12, 2018, 11:50:39 AM
The US stock market is only down ~7% from average peak.......hardly a correction yet.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on October 12, 2018, 02:07:01 PM
consider this a good time to buy if you have some dry powder
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on October 12, 2018, 09:34:00 PM
I don't belong here but I've been binge reading so I'm posting to follow.  Maybe I'll see you in the back half of my 30s.

Certainly you belong. We don't check bank accounts at the door.    Come back anytime.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on October 12, 2018, 09:36:52 PM
The US stock market is only down ~7% from average peak.......hardly a correction yet.

I'm just being a little whiney bitch.  Put it in bread loaves.   I had 20 loaves of bread.   I lost one loaf.  I still have 19 loaves of bread and an oven.  More loaves coming.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on October 12, 2018, 10:30:58 PM
The US stock market is only down ~7% from average peak.......hardly a correction yet.

I'm just being a little whiney bitch.  Put it in bread loaves.   I had 20 loaves of bread.   I lost one loaf.  I still have 19 loaves of bread and an oven.  More loaves coming.
Bateaux, I love this!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on October 13, 2018, 05:11:33 AM
The US stock market is only down ~7% from average peak.......hardly a correction yet.

I'm just being a little whiney bitch.  Put it in bread loaves.   I had 20 loaves of bread.   I lost one loaf.  I still have 19 loaves of bread and an oven.  More loaves coming.
Bateaux, I love this!

😂
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on October 13, 2018, 06:25:12 AM
That post was after about four ounces of tequila. 

;)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on October 13, 2018, 08:34:38 AM
That post was after about four ounces of tequila. 

;)

Pretty inspired for "drunk posting".. The all important oven..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Much Fishing to Do on October 17, 2018, 12:05:57 PM
I was on my way here to complain that my investments have dropped $200k over the past few weeks and see that others have posted on the same topic.  I'm still working, and I'm trying to see this as practice for keeping my cool when I see large market fluctuations once I've retired.  To make myself feel better, I tallied up my spending during September, and I'm still comfortably within a 3% withdrawal rate, even with my smaller portfolio.  It still doesn't feel good to see such a drop, though :(

Understood, its really crazy when you are reaching FI and compare your SWR to volatile portfolio moves (e.g. if the market drops 8%, and your fairly well diversified portfolio drops 6% in that week, 18 months of spending seemed to just disappear before you could even get around to booting up quicken).  But I agree it is good practice and doesn't feel good....I'm not ashamed to admit that during the crisis I learned that though I enjoyed watching CNBC or often looked at my portfolio in the good times, it was good to not follow so closely in the bad...and I dont think I would have ever been one to sell scared...but its just not a fun feeling when things are down like it is when they are up so I dont do it as often
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: JoJoP on October 17, 2018, 01:08:25 PM
That post was after about four ounces of tequila. 

;)

Sounds like a prudent fortification!   But 19 loaves is a lot of loaves, and oh so close to 20.   Great attitude!  That new house might be big, but it sounds like you've made a great purchase at a great price point.  Enjoy it! 

I'm back after a non-MMM 6 weeks in Europe.   Or maybe it wasn't so non-MMM, after all, I did stay at little mom and pop places, not big fancy face punch worthy resorts.  The frugal me has learned how to travel on a real budget.  I think a blogger once called it "the high/low lifestyle."

Now I've got to get one more rental in motion.  (that means rented out).   It should cash flow nearly 20K a year, so every day it's not rented is costing us. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: MiserlyMiser on October 18, 2018, 12:54:33 PM
I was on my way here to complain that my investments have dropped $200k over the past few weeks and see that others have posted on the same topic.  I'm still working, and I'm trying to see this as practice for keeping my cool when I see large market fluctuations once I've retired.  To make myself feel better, I tallied up my spending during September, and I'm still comfortably within a 3% withdrawal rate, even with my smaller portfolio.  It still doesn't feel good to see such a drop, though :(

Understood, its really crazy when you are reaching FI and compare your SWR to volatile portfolio moves (e.g. if the market drops 8%, and your fairly well diversified portfolio drops 6% in that week, 18 months of spending seemed to just disappear before you could even get around to booting up quicken).  But I agree it is good practice and doesn't feel good....I'm not ashamed to admit that during the crisis I learned that though I enjoyed watching CNBC or often looked at my portfolio in the good times, it was good to not follow so closely in the bad...and I dont think I would have ever been one to sell scared...but its just not a fun feeling when things are down like it is when they are up so I dont do it as often
In 2006-2007, I was aggressively paying down my second mortgage rather than investing, so I didn't have much to lose by the time of the 2008 crash.  I haven't really experienced a bear market yet. 
Also, I am not as diversified as I should be, so when the market drops, I usually drop a little more.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on October 18, 2018, 01:42:02 PM
In 2006-2007, I was aggressively paying down my second mortgage rather than investing, so I didn't have much to lose by the time of the 2008 crash.  I haven't really experienced a bear market yet. 
Also, I am not as diversified as I should be, so when the market drops, I usually drop a little more.

Did you just say you were aggressively paying down a mortgage?  B42, where are you??  Just kidding, sounds like you were as lucky as we were since we had sold our home in 2007 and were on an expat assignment (company provided housing) and able to aggressively invest in the stock market through 2008-9. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: MiserlyMiser on October 18, 2018, 02:46:46 PM
In 2006-2007, I was aggressively paying down my second mortgage rather than investing, so I didn't have much to lose by the time of the 2008 crash.  I haven't really experienced a bear market yet. 
Also, I am not as diversified as I should be, so when the market drops, I usually drop a little more.

Did you just say you were aggressively paying down a mortgage?  B42, where are you??  Just kidding, sounds like you were as lucky as we were since we had sold our home in 2007 and were on an expat assignment (company provided housing) and able to aggressively invest in the stock market through 2008-9. 
I mean, I bought my house in 2006, so it isn't like I got a deal--12 years later, it's finally estimated to be within $45k of what I paid for it. 
And I paid the second mortgage down aggressively.  Somehow the interest rate was >12%, I still don't understand how that happened.  It was an interest-only HELOC, so the minimum payment was very low, but I threw everything extra I had at it.  Within a year, I got the balance low enough to transfer to a zero-interest credit card, and I paid it back within a few months after that. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on October 18, 2018, 03:20:04 PM
Thanks for coloring it in, I knew that you were paying down a second mortgage (but thought it was funny anyways).  We all get to 2M on an interesting path.  Hopefully these youngsters see how much more fun it is to get here, even if you are a little wrong, then just being here. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on October 18, 2018, 05:31:30 PM
In 2006-2007, I was aggressively paying down my second mortgage rather than investing, so I didn't have much to lose by the time of the 2008 crash.  I haven't really experienced a bear market yet. 
Also, I am not as diversified as I should be, so when the market drops, I usually drop a little more.

Did you just say you were aggressively paying down a mortgage?  B42, where are you??  Just kidding, sounds like you were as lucky as we were since we had sold our home in 2007 and were on an expat assignment (company provided housing) and able to aggressively invest in the stock market through 2008-9. 
I mean, I bought my house in 2006, so it isn't like I got a deal--12 years later, it's finally estimated to be within $45k of what I paid for it. 
And I paid the second mortgage down aggressively.  Somehow the interest rate was >12%, I still don't understand how that happened.  It was an interest-only HELOC, so the minimum payment was very low, but I threw everything extra I had at it.  Within a year, I got the balance low enough to transfer to a zero-interest credit card, and I paid it back within a few months after that.
I'd have paid that sucker off in a hurry too, though I'm not sure under what circumstances I'd have taken those terms. Glad it's behind you now.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Fomerly known as something on October 18, 2018, 06:58:36 PM
I met with my financial advisor for the "first time" today.  It's quotes for first time since he is a friend whose advising philosophy I've long known prior to my engaging him to be my advisor.  I'd started the process to enter a formal partnership before the recent downturn.  I'm looking less from investing advise and more for pretirement planning which may include a phased retirement.  Worst case scenario, I quit tomorrow and never work for a paycheck again 66% chance of success all other options were 80% plus.

What we did not talk about, the market.  Well I did tell him my re balancing criteria but otherwise didn't go into specifics.  We will talk about making adjustments to my portfolio at our next meeting.  On the first glance I got a lot of you are doing things right.   
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on October 18, 2018, 09:35:18 PM
That post was after about four ounces of tequila. 

;)

Sounds like a prudent fortification!   But 19 loaves is a lot of loaves, and oh so close to 20.   Great attitude!  That new house might be big, but it sounds like you've made a great purchase at a great price point.  Enjoy it! 

I'm back after a non-MMM 6 weeks in Europe.   Or maybe it wasn't so non-MMM, after all, I did stay at little mom and pop places, not big fancy face punch worthy resorts.  The frugal me has learned how to travel on a real budget.  I think a blogger once called it "the high/low lifestyle."

Now I've got to get one more rental in motion.  (that means rented out).   It should cash flow nearly 20K a year, so every day it's not rented is costing us.

Wow.  6 weeks in Europe.   We haven't been yet.  I'm dying to walk the Camino de Santiago and see historical sites along the med.   No face punch to you.   I'm happy for you.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: JoJoP on October 20, 2018, 10:48:39 PM

Wow.  6 weeks in Europe.   We haven't been yet.  I'm dying to walk the Camino de Santiago and see historical sites along the med.   No face punch to you.   I'm happy for you.

Thanks! 

A lot of people do the Camino de Santiago in sections.  A week or two of walking per trip.   We ran across many of them (often with a little sea shell on their backpack that marks them as pilgrims) when we were in Spain and France.  In spring, I was in that area, I meet an Australian trio who have been walking a section every year for 10 years.  The wife doesn't walk as far as the husband and friend do, but they all do some of it, year after year.  I was surprised that people do the Camino in such a variety of ways that makes it work for them. There's a couple of main routes, not just one.  I'm sure they are all amazing, though. 
 The Camino is an intriguing idea, discussed here and there in the JoJoP household,  but I think I'd like to do it by bicycle, or even by mule. 

As for the 6 weeks (5 and a half, actually) in Greece... it was a bit long. I'm glad to be home.  I don't think I'll go for that long again.  But I'm blessed.  Our retirement features traveling as one of the main components. The rentals require minimal attention, so our cash flow is secure and flowing no matter where we are in the world. This FI thing is amazing... there's nothing to stop us from going if we want to go.  We have money and no jobs (insert happy dance, thumbs up, and Cheshire Cat Grin). Frequent flyer miles/bank points make the plane tickets about 10 cents on the dollar.  We've figured out how to travel frugally and frequently,  and it's working for us.  It's a big part of our life.  Hotels and Booking.com give access to amazing, off the tourist track hotels that are often under $50 USD a night in the (offbeat) places that we like to go.  2018 was a big travel year for us.  I think I've got over 100 days of international travel this year, mostly Europe, but also New Zealand and Africa,with 2 more trips on the books.  I filled my passport pages in 4 years and had to replace it!

Keep us informed, @Fomerly known as something, on your progress with the financial advisor.  Are most of you using a financial advisor?  Do they give worthwhile input?  I'm considering one, a lady I know,  that has both stocks and rentals.  My inquiries have found that advisors mostly lean strongly towards stocks/portfolio management.   Since I have rentals, I wonder what's a good fit for me. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on October 21, 2018, 03:11:10 AM
We are at 4.5 weeks in Europe and will come home at 6 weeks. its a long time on the road and more arduous than one might imagine.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on October 21, 2018, 08:55:58 AM
@Exflyboy - I don't enjoy traveling enough to go for that long, but know that about myself in advance. We are considering having one primary residence in retirement (likely California coast area), and then two vacation houses. We'll rent the other two vacation houses, and then use them as we'd like. We have a vacation house currently, and really enjoy the comforts of being "at home", like the aspect of having some work to do on maintenance to keep us busy, etc.

We also enjoy relaxing travel (e.g. no maintenance, no ownership responsibilities), but probably would tap out around 10 days.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: JoJoP on October 21, 2018, 10:22:22 AM
@Exflyboy - I don't enjoy traveling enough to go for that long, but know that about myself in advance. We are considering having one primary residence in retirement (likely California coast area), and then two vacation houses. We'll rent the other two vacation houses, and then use them as we'd like. We have a vacation house currently, and really enjoy the comforts of being "at home", like the aspect of having some work to do on maintenance to keep us busy, etc.


Where would your vacation houses be?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on October 22, 2018, 12:29:18 AM
You guys are amazing.   I really almost don't believe at times I am your peer.  You are all doing incredible things that most only dream about.  We're getting to the place you are soon.  I just had a money conversation with a really smart coworker.  One that gets it.  I revealed our current stash amount and there was no look of amazement, because the person understands money.  The person had the perfect explanation for how some accumulate wealth and use money as a tool and others money is a burden.   The person said, it's because of decisions we made very early in life. We tried harder and put in the time to create our path forward.  I thirst for this in a sea of nonmustacianism.  Please keep shaing your stories.  I don't have a lot of local friends I can have these conversations with.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on October 22, 2018, 01:27:25 PM
@JoJoP - we currently have one house on the Oregon coast that we will keep. It's a couple of hours from my family, so we already spend quite a bit of time there, and it gets a lot of family use. We are considering Hawaii for the other, but the math hasn't worked out so far. Not sure if it ever will, with the extraordinary costs. We're having coffee with a friend who has had a rental for an extended period of time to sanity check some of our number estimates.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on October 26, 2018, 08:19:36 AM
So this thread has gone quiet as most of us have probably been kicked out of the club.. Temporarily..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Car Jack on October 26, 2018, 08:58:10 AM
Ah.....   I updated my investments spread sheet today, just for fun.  Equities had been getting higher as a % before this latest slide.  I'm almost back to exactly 50/50, where my target is.  The silver lining, I guess is that I don't have to rebalance.  It's done for me.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on October 26, 2018, 09:11:59 AM
So this thread has gone quiet as most of us have probably been kicked out of the club.. Temporarily..:)

As of today Mint says 1.925  Looking at the current market could be going lower.  Got three houses, two paid off.  I not completely a poser. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on October 26, 2018, 09:19:45 AM
I really hope this is the start of the looming recession.   It's inevitable so I  personally want it now.  I've decided to extend to 2020 for FIRE and the recovery could be timed right for me.  Who knows.   Still buying,  we'll probably toss in another 150K or more of new money by 2020.  Medicare for all would make me consider going earlier.  If not I still have my Cadillac plan as long as I work.  With the Cadi I don't qualify for a HSA.  Guess the Roth can supplant that somewhat. 

Keep posting guys.  I enjoy your company.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on October 26, 2018, 10:51:41 AM
I really hope this is the start of the looming recession.   It's inevitable so I  personally want it now.  I've decided to extend to 2020 for FIRE and the recovery could be timed right for me.  Who knows.   Still buying,  we'll probably toss in another 150K or more of new money by 2020.  Medicare for all would make me consider going earlier.  If not I still have my Cadillac plan as long as I work.  With the Cadi I don't qualify for a HSA.  Guess the Roth can supplant that somewhat. 

Keep posting guys.  I enjoy your company.

I don't think the recession is on the horizon yet.

If I count my "funny money" aka pension I'm still well in the club.. But if we get to a 25%+ pullback I maybe out.. I'll be rolling more into stocks from my bond funds at that point though.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on October 26, 2018, 03:08:20 PM
So this thread has gone quiet as most of us have probably been kicked out of the club.. Temporarily..:)
Or we're just busy doing other things besides checking our account balances.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: 2Birds1Stone on October 26, 2018, 06:05:18 PM
Y'all get no sympathy from us peons =P
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on October 26, 2018, 08:58:11 PM
Still there, but only with our property value included
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on October 26, 2018, 11:20:09 PM
Still here too, as a high % of my NE is property.

But with Sydney property values sliding, the AUD falling against the USD, and now my stock portfolio having palpitations, no matter how much I can save of my salary I am still slipping backwards.

@Bateaux, weíre not joining you in OMY yet, and it remains unlikely, but the topic has been floated over the dinner table.

We have a bit of a tax issue, driving us to fIRE this coming June. That, and I have had enough of working.

In Australia, if you are an expat you can rent out your home in Australia for upto 6 years (6 year rule)and if you return within that time frame your home can retain CGT exempt status. 6 years will hit us in early 2020. As our home has appreciated in value a lot over the past 5 years, and as we intend to sell in the next 5 years the CGT exemption is worth quite a lot to us, maybe $80-100K. Weíd have to work many extra months to offset that tax if we donít get back to Oz within 6years.

Tax laws have changed whilst we have been abroad, and we have a window to sell before 30 June this year and not pay any CGT. Out tenants lease expires in March, so one option for us is to sell between March and June, and then we could keep working OS for a year or 2 longer, but then we wouldnít have a home in Sydney to return to. As we had lived in Sydney our whole lives before heading OS for work, closing the door on Sydney right now feels very final and something we are not super comfortable with. Ideally we will return artiste to Sydney and then from our Sydney base start exploring where our long term Post FIRE home will be. We have no real idea today.

But like you, the security of a little more in the kitty would sure be nice.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on October 27, 2018, 10:27:02 AM
Itchy good luck with it all and I'm personally cheering for you to get to FIRE as early as possible.   Don't OMY unless you have to.   
I got out on my bicycle yesterday and rode around Baton Rouge, Louisiana.   I normally ride in New Orleans.   I live between the two cities.  It is amazing the difference between the two.   New Orleans, the Big Easy is so laid back and almost stress free.  Automobile drivers see you on a bike and happily yield to you giving you a safe distance.  Baton Rouge is a stressed out city.  Everyone is in a hurry to be at work and in a hurry to be home.  In a hurry to get wherever it is they are going.  I have to be extra careful and cautious when there on my bicycle.   Baton Rouge has the potential to be a wonderful place if it would just slow down, park the car and encourage walking or biking.  OMY syndrome is living Baton Rouge style and FIRE is New Orleans style.   New Orleans culture is what I was raised on.  So I'm ready to FIRE.  November the 6th is a huge day here in the US.  Depending upon how Americans vote will say a lot about when I FIRE.  The main issue is with affordable health care.
Good luck.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: onlykelsey on October 28, 2018, 06:24:06 AM
Still nowhere near there (I was at about 780K earlier this fall, including equity, and now at 706K) but I'm trying to think of this as good timing for me since I'm still accumulating.

@Bateaux , that's so interesting.  What are the big employers in Baton Rouge?  Is that where the difference in culture comes from?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on October 28, 2018, 09:53:07 PM
Still nowhere near there (I was at about 780K earlier this fall, including equity, and now at 706K) but I'm trying to think of this as good timing for me since I'm still accumulating.

@Bateaux , that's so interesting.  What are the big employers in Baton Rouge?  Is that where the difference in culture comes from?

Baton Rouge is largely a blue collar town.  Lot's of oil refineries and chemical plants.  It's also the capital city so there are government jobs as well.  New Orleans is mainly a tourist destination.   Not much manufacturing in NOLA these days. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on October 29, 2018, 08:55:38 AM
Aww crap.. why is it the juicy pullbacks happen when I'm on vacation? I really don't like delving into my online accounts from unknown WIFI connections... Two days before we leave Europe and the market is on its way back up.

So much for that re-balance!

Hopefully it will take another dive later this week.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: JoJoP on October 29, 2018, 07:28:16 PM
So this thread has gone quiet as most of us have probably been kicked out of the club.. Temporarily..:)

Nah, we're just waiting for you to get home from your trip and liven things up again. 

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: wannabe-stache on October 29, 2018, 07:40:15 PM
Aww crap.. why is it the juicy pullbacks happen when I'm on vacation? I really don't like delving into my online accounts from unknown WIFI connections... Two days before we leave Europe and the market is on its way back up.

So much for that re-balance!

Hopefully it will take another dive later this week.
U spoke a bit too soon.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on October 30, 2018, 04:03:21 AM
I did speak too soon.. But as I will be back on Thursday I expect the market to be fully recovered by then...:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on October 30, 2018, 07:36:00 AM
Our 401Ks are down six figures, so that hurts, but we won't be making any changes there. I was sitting on an enormous pile of cash while we decided next steps on investing, so that was serendipitous. We also have a ton tied up in publicly traded company stock options, so we are down about $300K month on month. There have been some minor (compared to the stock) housing adjustments as well in there.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on October 30, 2018, 10:30:16 AM
Ouch! I just checked one of our accounts and it's dipped below $1M. It's not our only one, but it's the easiest one to look up and has the best graphics. I tend to be an accumulator, and when the market does these dips, I like to throw our extra cash in. It's market timing, but only in a little tiny way, it's not our whole financial plan, lol. It's killing me not to do this right now, but we're in the middle of a flip and I don't want to end up short of cash at the end of the project. MPP for sure.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on October 30, 2018, 11:43:32 AM
sign me up for the ďYikes! I lost over $100K in October ClubĒ too.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: soccerluvof4 on November 01, 2018, 02:12:50 PM
I was down about 300k as well but the last 3 days are bring it back some so a little of the sting gone. Its gonna do what its gonna do. I had some cash I was just gonna put in the other day and it bounced so I will wait.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on November 01, 2018, 06:56:14 PM
So I get back home today and of course the market is one its way back up.. No rebalance for me (probably)...:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: PhrugalPhan on November 02, 2018, 09:04:16 AM
So this thread has gone quiet as most of us have probably been kicked out of the club.. Temporarily..:)
Probably true in my case but I just don't check so I don't feel bad. I'm going on vacation starting tomorrow so that will keep me distracted for now.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on November 02, 2018, 11:13:12 AM
Indeed, I don't check my NW very often since crossing the 2MM threshold.  I have more than enough in NW and I'm still earning and stashing pretty handily.  If I happen to slip out of the club due to a market correction or collapse, I'll still be putting money in and eventually return to 2 or more million.  It was much harder in my 20's (earning 40k vs. high federal and state tax) vs. now...

I spend more time these days gaming my airline and hotel status for freebies :)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on November 02, 2018, 11:43:14 AM
Indeed, I don't check my NW very often since crossing the 2MM threshold.  I have more than enough in NW and I'm still earning and stashing pretty handily.  If I happen to slip out of the club due to a market correction or collapse, I'll still be putting money in and eventually return to 2 or more million.  It was much harder in my 20's (earning 40k vs. high federal and state tax) vs. now...

I spend more time these days gaming my airline and hotel status for freebies :)

This "almost" makes me want to go back to work.. almost..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on November 02, 2018, 01:32:19 PM
I just did a rebalance of the portfolio and was pleasantly surprised our liquid investments are only about $50k below membership level.

Pensions and paid off house puts us firmly back in of course.

Not too bad at all. If this is the start to an ugly bear market I will gradually increase my stock allocation on the way down, because.. well why not?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on November 11, 2018, 06:41:05 PM
Still about 35K below club level in investment assets.   We've recovered from the worst but, still about 80K or so down from the peak.  We'd be in go get a job territory if we didn't already have jobs. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on November 12, 2018, 10:39:15 AM
Still about 35K below club level in investment assets.   We've recovered from the worst but, still about 80K or so down from the peak.  We'd be in go get a job territory if we didn't already have jobs.

Yo're probably further "out" today.. Mind you you can accumulate some more on the way down, I might have to start drawing a pension at this rate..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on November 13, 2018, 09:56:42 AM
My plan has always been to work through the next recession.   Problem is the recession has been too long in coming.   I'm wanting to FIRE post recovery in order to avoid the stress of spending down principal.   Work isn't nearly as stressful to me as spending  savings in a recession.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on November 13, 2018, 01:49:21 PM
My plan has always been to work through the next recession.   Problem is the recession has been too long in coming.   I'm wanting to FIRE post recovery in order to avoid the stress of spending down principal.   Work isn't nearly as stressful to me as spending  savings in a recession.

Yeah I know what you mean.. Trouble is left to me it would have been OMD... (one more decade).!!!

I just did an end of year spending projection and it came out to a 1.5% WR, even with some mighty one off expenditures and a "yuge" vacation at $6k... Sometimes enough really is enough!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on November 13, 2018, 08:09:40 PM
It's helpful to do those projections because it provides the big picture which helps to calm the nerves during these trying times.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: JoJoP on November 14, 2018, 08:02:25 AM
I'd rather keep working than spend down principal. No matter how big my 'stashe is, I just can't bear to see it go down.   We're self employed, so "work" has flexibility and can be anything we want it to be.  Most young people would call our work a "side hustle,"  even though, post FIRE, it's the only hustle we've got.   Our retirement is based on real estate rental income, so there's always some DIY aspect to it.  But, nonetheless, dipping into principal is the antithesis of my climb to wealth.   
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: markbike528CBX on November 14, 2018, 11:39:05 AM
I'd rather keep working than spend down principal. No matter how big my 'stashe is, I just can't bear to see it go down.   We're self employed, so "work" has flexibility and can be anything we want it to be.  Most young people would call our work a "side hustle,"  even though, post FIRE, it's the only hustle we've got.   Our retirement is based on real estate rental income, so there's always some DIY aspect to it.  But, nonetheless, dipping into principal is the antithesis of my climb to wealth.

So, joining the 2065 cohort then? 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on November 15, 2018, 09:26:45 AM
And the stock market continues its march downward.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on November 15, 2018, 12:22:11 PM
and now its turning up.. something must have happened?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on November 16, 2018, 09:02:55 PM
And the stock market continues its march downward.
and now its turning up.. something must have happened?
Didn't really notice the time, but today when I logged on to the account that had slipped below $1M last time I checked, I was pleased to see it's back up over $1M. Apropos of nothing, really, because we're not changing anything. Just watching the bouncing ball.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: ysette9 on November 16, 2018, 10:45:11 PM
I lurk on this thread from time to time because I can’t wait to join. We are somewhere a little north of $1.8 depending on the market’s mood, not counting house equity. In the meantime I’ll get inspiration here and just keep swimming...
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on November 17, 2018, 02:48:52 PM
I lurk on this thread from time to time because I canít wait to join. We are somewhere a little north of $1.8 depending on the marketís mood, not counting house equity. In the meantime Iíll get inspiration here and just keep swimming...

Are you RE'd yet Ysette or still accumulating? If accumulating I suspect that we might have a couple of down years then you'll pop up to $2M+ quite rapidly, depending on your allocation..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on November 18, 2018, 01:44:22 AM
I've recently become friends with someone that is a world adventurer and successful business owner.  I hope to have a conversation  with him about FIRE this coming week.  I hope to hear that I'm FIRE ready by 2020.  I know I should be able to make the decision on my own.  Like a medical diagnosis, I think it's best to have multiple opinions.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: soccerluvof4 on November 18, 2018, 04:29:47 AM
With being fire'd and investing only about 1k a month so much is dependent on the market so I haven't been able to get back over the number since the decline BUT have moved about a third of the way back. Is what it is. Happy to be at least where I am in the conversation.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on November 18, 2018, 10:56:45 AM
With being fire'd and investing only about 1k a month so much is dependent on the market so I haven't been able to get back over the number since the decline BUT have moved about a third of the way back. Is what it is. Happy to be at least where I am in the conversation.

I'm confused.. You're FIRED and you are investing $1k per month?? How so?.. Montser rental income or some other firehose of cash?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: soccerluvof4 on November 18, 2018, 04:13:35 PM
With being fire'd and investing only about 1k a month so much is dependent on the market so I haven't been able to get back over the number since the decline BUT have moved about a third of the way back. Is what it is. Happy to be at least where I am in the conversation.

I'm confused.. You're FIRED and you are investing $1k per month?? How so?.. Montser rental income or some other firehose of cash?




I'm fire'd. My wife after 2 years because of the Healthcare Unknowns and having 4 kids took a flexible job that allows us to get the  benefits and some income. Should of clarified better. But we hit a tad above 3 then the market tanked and we did some remodeling and stuff but hoping to get back there . We will see.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: ysette9 on November 19, 2018, 12:12:17 PM
I lurk on this thread from time to time because I can’t wait to join. We are somewhere a little north of $1.8 depending on the market’s mood, not counting house equity. In the meantime I’ll get inspiration here and just keep swimming...

Are you RE'd yet Ysette or still accumulating? If accumulating I suspect that we might have a couple of down years then you'll pop up to $2M+ quite rapidly, depending on your allocation..:)
Still accumulating. In 2018 we will have saved something north of $200k between all accounts and should hopefully be able to do similarly next year, so I feel like we are sprinting to the finish line. But as you allude to, the market forces really are the ones that determine when we will reach our number at this stage of the game. We are supposed to be moving more into bonds now in preparation of reaching FI. Something for my husband and I to discuss in more detail during our next money date.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Threshkin on November 19, 2018, 03:06:13 PM
As members of this club it is interesting to watch our NW move in big swings lately.  Prior to 2018 the US market has had very volatility for several years and big swings were unusual.  This year has had periods of high volatility.

Having your NW drop more than a full year of expenses in under 24 hours can be disconcerting.  But then we remember that we carry sufficient reserves to carry us through most historical downturns.

We are big believers in having Fat-FIRE assets coupled with Thin-FIRE or normal FIRE expenses.  We would much rather have excess money in old age than being worried about running out.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on November 19, 2018, 08:07:30 PM
As members of this club it is interesting to watch our NW move in big swings lately.  Prior to 2018 the US market has had very volatility for several years and big swings were unusual.  This year has had periods of high volatility.

Having your NW drop more than a full year of expenses in under 24 hours can be disconcerting.  But then we remember that we carry sufficient reserves to carry us through most historical downturns.

We are big believers in having Fat-FIRE assets coupled with Thin-FIRE or normal FIRE expenses.  We would much rather have excess money in old age than being worried about running out.

Same here.. We are running at about 13 years worth expenses in Bond funds (8 years if you don't count our rental income).. That should be sufficient..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on November 20, 2018, 07:31:03 AM
As members of this club it is interesting to watch our NW move in big swings lately.  Prior to 2018 the US market has had very volatility for several years and big swings were unusual.  This year has had periods of high volatility.

Having your NW drop more than a full year of expenses in under 24 hours can be disconcerting.  But then we remember that we carry sufficient reserves to carry us through most historical downturns.

We are big believers in having Fat-FIRE assets coupled with Thin-FIRE or normal FIRE expenses.  We would much rather have excess money in old age than being worried about running out.

Same here.. We are running at about 13 years worth expenses in Bond funds (8 years if you don't count our rental income).. That should be sufficient..:)

Instead of another race to thread, should we call the next level the "Race to Fat FIRE?"

I like it, I like it a lot.   Now, to get our accounts moving forward again and not backwards.  The bear is starting to roar.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on November 20, 2018, 10:44:51 AM
As members of this club it is interesting to watch our NW move in big swings lately.  Prior to 2018 the US market has had very volatility for several years and big swings were unusual.  This year has had periods of high volatility.

Having your NW drop more than a full year of expenses in under 24 hours can be disconcerting.  But then we remember that we carry sufficient reserves to carry us through most historical downturns.

We are big believers in having Fat-FIRE assets coupled with Thin-FIRE or normal FIRE expenses.  We would much rather have excess money in old age than being worried about running out.

Same here.. We are running at about 13 years worth expenses in Bond funds (8 years if you don't count our rental income).. That should be sufficient..:)

Instead of another race to thread, should we call the next level the "Race to Fat FIRE?"

I like it, I like it a lot.   Now, to get our accounts moving forward again and not backwards.  The bear is starting to roar.

Oh how about just a race to fat?..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: JoJoP on November 20, 2018, 08:11:03 PM
Race to Fat?  A funny, yet somehow depressing name for someone on a diet...  I just lost about 15 lbs and I'm so proud of it.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: ysette9 on November 21, 2018, 06:56:14 AM
Congrats! Good luck on your journey.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: SwordGuy on November 21, 2018, 07:39:19 AM
I don't track net worth to determine FI.   It is a flawed measurement when it comes to determining FI.

I track Post FIRE income vs expenses.   It's the only accurate measurement. :)   That's because there are many ways to get income Post FIRE, stock and bond sales, dividends, interest, rent, royalties, oil well profit sharing, etc.  There are so very many ways to make money in this country!

Net worth is about 2.5 million.

About a $1 million in real estate rental property or farm land, owned free and clear.  About 300k on our home, with a mortgage of 158k remaining.  The rest in stocks, bonds and cash.

The relevant numbers for FI are expenses about $75k and non-stock/bond income between $70k and 80k, with the remainder coming from stock and bond sales as needed.  So I don't worry all that much about the stock market dropping in value.  That means I'm not particularly concerned about the sequence of returns risk.

Once I get the rental I'm working on and another one up and running, I shouldn't normally need to sell stocks or bonds at all.

And I confess I'm not real motivated to "race" to $3m.  I think I'll putter around doing things I want to do and let my stocks do all that heavy lifting for me. :)   

Here's a visual for how I'll go about it:


Me, sitting on the porch sipping a mint julep, "Vanguard!  Fetch me another dividend and some stock appreciation please.  Thankee kindly!"

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: JoJoP on November 22, 2018, 09:47:39 AM
Congrats! Good luck on your journey.

Thanks Ysette9.  Sometimes I think it's easier to make money than to lose weight and be fitter.  Both are lifestyle choices based on a lifetime of micro-decisions. 

I see you have a husband, which generally means you're female.  I am also.  I'm curious...Are there other females on this thread? 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on November 22, 2018, 11:38:45 AM
Yup.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: soccerluvof4 on November 22, 2018, 11:54:18 AM
Congrats! Good luck on your journey.

Thanks Ysette9.  Sometimes I think it's easier to make money than to lose weight and be fitter.  Both are lifestyle choices based on a lifetime of micro-decisions. 

I see you have a husband, which generally means you're female.  I am also.  I'm curious...Are there other females on this thread?





There are many! Not sure what the ratio is but seems 50/50 maybe more on the Females side
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: pecunia on November 22, 2018, 05:37:23 PM
Isn't 2.5 million enough?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eikbQPldhPY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eikbQPldhPY)

Is this still valid advice?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: ysette9 on November 22, 2018, 09:41:15 PM
Congrats! Good luck on your journey.

Thanks Ysette9.  Sometimes I think it's easier to make money than to lose weight and be fitter.  Both are lifestyle choices based on a lifetime of micro-decisions. 

I see you have a husband, which generally means you're female.  I am also.  I'm curious...Are there other females on this thread?





There are many! Not sure what the ratio is but seems 50/50 maybe more on the Females side
Oh really? I had always thought that the forums were more heavily skewed to male, though I’m not sure where I picked up that impression.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: soccerluvof4 on November 24, 2018, 05:19:56 AM
Isn't 2.5 million enough?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eikbQPldhPY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eikbQPldhPY)

Is this still valid advice?



I'd say so , pretty much what I went by. Always love that video!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on November 24, 2018, 07:32:50 AM
Isn't 2.5 million enough?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eikbQPldhPY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eikbQPldhPY)

Is this still valid advice?



I'd say so , pretty much what I went by. Always love that video!

I hadnít seen that video before. 😆
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on November 24, 2018, 09:53:26 AM
That video has become my go to when I have to tell myself to stop fretting over market pullbacks..

$2.5M.. Yes it really is a fortress of f,,,g solitude!!!..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on November 24, 2018, 10:46:39 AM
Isn't 2.5 million enough?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eikbQPldhPY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eikbQPldhPY)

Is this still valid advice?



I'd say so , pretty much what I went by. Always love that video!

I hadnít seen that video before. 😆
Me neither. Love, love, love it!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: 2Birds1Stone on November 24, 2018, 11:00:53 AM
Wow! It's better than the original.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: ysette9 on November 24, 2018, 11:14:36 AM
So good
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on November 24, 2018, 03:38:31 PM
I watch both both versions at least once a month.  2.5 million is the goal.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on November 25, 2018, 03:54:34 AM
Sadly though, as the video ends, it reminds me that America is going deeper into debt and even hitting the accelerator...  the majority will never learn.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: pecunia on November 25, 2018, 06:42:50 AM
Sadly though, as the video ends, it reminds me that America is going deeper into debt and even hitting the accelerator...  the majority will never learn.

I had this scary thought as I read your comment.  Government is going crazy about borrowing money as they protect the very rich people and corporations from paying taxes. (among other reasons)  They are spending a lot of money they don't have.  This is increasing the money in circulation.  I've been taught a higher money supply is inflationary.

Right now 2-3 million dollars is plenty.  Can the excessive deficit spending reduce that amount and wipe out some of the hard work all the folks have done here to earn it?  As the video said we are f*&king it up.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on November 26, 2018, 06:37:07 PM
 Government deficit spending it is not necessarily a bad thing. When interest rates are extraordinarily low government deficit spending is actually what will help pick an economy up from the ground.
When there is deficit spending during peak economic growth then the deficit spending can crowd out private borrowing which can cause inflation and drive up interest rates. When interest rates go up thatís when businesses endure higher interest payments. Mortgages And borrowing gets too expensive, and housing and construction can suffer which can lead to a recession.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: soccerluvof4 on November 27, 2018, 03:19:25 AM
Government deficit spending it is not necessarily a bad thing. When interest rates are extraordinarily low government deficit spending is actually what will help pick an economy up from the ground.
When there is deficit spending during peak economic growth then the deficit spending can crowd out private borrowing which can cause inflation and drive up interest rates. When interest rates go up thatís when businesses endure higher interest payments. Mortgages And borrowing gets too expensive, and housing and construction can suffer which can lead to a recession.




^+1
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on November 27, 2018, 08:05:53 AM
The national debt can grow at a rate that is sustainable, it's the debt to GDP ratio that's a better metric. If the nominal GDP grows 6% a year, the national debt can grow to that level as well.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on November 28, 2018, 06:06:30 AM
The national debt can grow at a rate that is sustainable, it's the debt to GDP ratio that's a better metric. If the nominal GDP grows 6% a year, the national debt can grow to that level as well.

Good points in theory, but when the economy is humming along, it's typically a good time to start to balance the budget or at least stay below the historic average.  We are going in to the 10th year of GDP expansion (last contracted in 2009 (https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp)) and are voluntarily accelerating the spending deficit (by cutting taxes, increasing government spending, etc) since 2015.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget#/media/File:CBO_Deficits_pct_GDP_1968-2028.png

It doesn't take a genius to think about what will happen when GDP shrinks during a recession, government spending needs to increase to stimulate the economy, tax revenue is already low, and the heavy hitters like Medicare are increasing...  I guess Boomers should be thanking the next generations in advance for being willing to take cuts to our Medicare and Social Security benefits!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on November 30, 2018, 08:37:49 PM
The expanding deficit primarily occurred because of the business tax cuts, not because of increased government spending.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: pecunia on December 01, 2018, 07:39:28 AM
The expanding deficit primarily occurred because of the business tax cuts, not because of increased government spending.

Were these tax cuts good or were they bad?  The government has to borrow more and so we end up paying the original cost + interest.  However, a couple days ago I talked to a small business owner and learned what an enormous tax small businessmen have to pay.

I don't believe in the Laffer curve.  I also don't believe in crippling business.

Too much tax will stop the 2-3 million dollar race.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on December 01, 2018, 11:46:42 AM
The expanding deficit primarily occurred because of the business tax cuts, not because of increased government spending.

Were these tax cuts good or were they bad?  The government has to borrow more and so we end up paying the original cost + interest.  However, a couple days ago I talked to a small business owner and learned what an enormous tax small businessmen have to pay.

I don't believe in the Laffer curve.  I also don't believe in crippling business.

Too much tax will stop the 2-3 million dollar race.

I really doubt the taxes are so enormous - sounded like a complainypants.

When you have a small business you get to deduct for just about everything you can think of, which lowers the business income.
If this person is making so much money that he's complaining that he doesn't have enough to buy a 3rd house and a 4th Mercedes then no I don't feel sorry for him.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: pecunia on December 01, 2018, 12:00:50 PM
The expanding deficit primarily occurred because of the business tax cuts, not because of increased government spending.

Were these tax cuts good or were they bad?  The government has to borrow more and so we end up paying the original cost + interest.  However, a couple days ago I talked to a small business owner and learned what an enormous tax small businessmen have to pay.

I don't believe in the Laffer curve.  I also don't believe in crippling business.

Too much tax will stop the 2-3 million dollar race.

- SNIP -

When you have a small business you get to deduct for just about everything you can think of, which lowers the business income.
If this person is making so much money that he's complaining that he doesn't have enough to buy a 3rd house and a 4th Mercedes then no I don't feel sorry for him.


He's a Mississippi boy.  It would have been another pickup and not a Mercedes.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Car Jack on December 02, 2018, 12:31:21 PM
Mercedes pickup.....

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/RvuPchQZKL4/hqdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on December 21, 2018, 02:41:26 PM
Time to rename the thread Race from $3M to $2M :)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Threshkin on December 21, 2018, 02:57:02 PM
Time to rename the thread Race from $3M to $2M :)

LOL, I was just thinking that same thing when I saw this thread in my updated topics list.  I am down well over 10% since the peak.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on December 21, 2018, 03:28:48 PM
I used to be in this club.... Are we allowed to count pensions?..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on December 22, 2018, 02:29:28 AM
I used to be in this club.... Are we allowed to count pensions?..:)

I was always counting everything and am still gamely hanging in just above entry level, with all my chips on the table... even had to throw in the loose coins that fell down the back of the sofa.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on December 22, 2018, 05:29:52 AM
Iím pretty sure my net worth has now dropped below $2 million. Thanks Trump
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on December 22, 2018, 08:23:19 AM
I used to be in this club.... Are we allowed to count pensions?..:)
I didn't before, but I did count my paid for house and other RE equity. Now, I think I'll have to include DH's Defined Benefit Pension. Thank Dog there is one and that includes a decent amount of healthcare coverage.

I can't say for sure, because I'M NOT CHECKING BALANCES RIGHT NOW!!!!!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Mr Griz on December 22, 2018, 08:34:24 AM
I retired at the end of October and havenít looked at the market since. Iím vaguely aware that itís down a bit lately.  The main reason I can do this is a combination of a pension & some deferred compensation that will pay out over the next 3-5 years. Still, itís nice to be able to ride out this dip without fretting about it.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on December 22, 2018, 11:43:31 AM
Oh yeah, realistically at these levels the market could be cut in half and really would make zero difference to us.

It just doesn't FEEL that way..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Much Fishing to Do on December 23, 2018, 05:52:20 AM
Hard not to notice drop as was closing in on fatfire SWR of 4% but have moved from a 4.2% at the high to a 4.8% now.

Doesn't really matter I guess, more importantly the new half-time gig which covers our expenses is going well.  A move from 70hrs/wk to zero would have left me floundering I think, this is easing me into the what do I do with my free time so I think is the right balance for now
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: pecunia on December 23, 2018, 12:33:01 PM
Iím pretty sure my net worth has now dropped below $2 million. Thanks Trump

Is he really to blame?  Was the dip in stocks just due since we've had a long business cycle?

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on December 23, 2018, 01:36:57 PM
Iím pretty sure my net worth has now dropped below $2 million. Thanks Trump

Is he really to blame?  Was the dip in stocks just due since we've had a long business cycle?

Probably not to blame long term, but he's doing some thing now which are certainly not helping in the short term.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on December 23, 2018, 01:52:08 PM
Iím pretty sure my net worth has now dropped below $2 million. Thanks Trump

Is he really to blame?  Was the dip in stocks just due since we've had a long business cycle?

Probably not to blame long term, but he's doing some thing now which are certainly not helping in the short term.
I'd say he deserves the same amount of credit no matter which way the market goes.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: mjr on December 23, 2018, 03:13:53 PM
Aren't there enough Trump-attacking/hysteria threads even in this forum without introducing him into another one ?

You yanks need another hobby....
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: pecunia on December 23, 2018, 10:09:08 PM
Aren't there enough Trump-attacking/hysteria threads even in this forum without introducing him into another one ?

You yanks need another hobby....

I like it.   And,......I agree.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on December 24, 2018, 02:03:08 PM
I commented to DH that we should dump this year's and next year's Roth money into the market while it's a trash can fire. He said he thought we did it early in 2018. Damn! I couldn't bear to look at our account balances, so I had him look for me, but only after he promised not to tell. Yup, it seems we did. Double damn!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on December 24, 2018, 02:21:21 PM
I commented to DH that we should dump this year's and next year's Roth money into the market while it's a trash can fire. He said he thought we did it early in 2018. Damn! I couldn't bear to look at our account balances, so I had him look for me, but only after he promised not to tell. Yup, it seems we did. Double damn!

Double damn indeed.. But in the grand scheme of things this will also be insignificant in a few short years.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on December 25, 2018, 12:02:38 AM
Down 250K thusfar.  Sure makes having to work Christmas Eve and Christmas Day  a lot easier for me. 
A few years ago my FIRE goal was 1.5 million.   Well that'd be more than another 250K drop from here.  Unfortunately the current 2.5 million goal may not be reachable by my August 2020 goal date.  FIRE isn't even up for discussion for me sub 2 million.  It's OMY,OMY,  indefinitely till that returns for sure.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: 2Birds1Stone on December 25, 2018, 04:27:11 AM
It's OMY,OMY,  indefinitely till that returns for sure.

Or you drop dead.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: soccerluvof4 on December 25, 2018, 07:00:36 AM
While we would need to drop what we recently have plus maybe a little more to fall out of this category I am not one that overly worries about it everyday or am going to change things BUT i do look and it stings a bit.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: ysette9 on December 25, 2018, 08:24:36 AM
I have heard vague headlines of the market dropping around me but haven’t actually logged into anything to look. Everything is on auto pilot and I set my 401(k) contribution last week to put 100% of my bonus into it. I’m also going to front-load the $19k by having 0 take-home until I reach that limit. The plan is to also do 50% after-tax contribution until I reach the $55k limit, if our cash flow works out. I wouldn’t really have thought of front loading contributions but I got on some financial forums at work and the people there are SO savvy, and I am feeling the peer pressure to front load. ;)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: XC1984 on December 28, 2018, 12:35:24 PM
I'm new here (at least new at posting), and $2-$3M group seems to be where I am. I was on that traditional retire at 65 path, and really course corrected about 3 years ago after googling "How much is enough" and discovering the FIRE movement on the internet. I'm 52, working as a mid-level corporate manager, and my wife works in the service industry in Southern CA. I started transforming my life toward Mustachianism without knowing it about three years ago - renting out our suburban house, moving to a 2 bedroom near work, and eliminating a 3-hour round-trip commute. Now I save about 1/3 of my annual income and have liquid investments of about $2.4M. I'm targeting quitting my job in about four years at 56 when our youngest is through college and that large variable is behind us. Though I know I could go FIRE today, we would like to move back to our home community in the suburbs to stay long term, and that isn't exactly inexpensive.

I can't say I can closely relate to the 30-somethings retiring on $40k a year, but I believe these principles can be applied by anyone's situation wherever they are at. It has certainly changed my perspective and direction, and I appreciate reading all of these stories!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Threshkin on December 28, 2018, 02:39:09 PM
For those of us in this group, what are your budgeted and actual annual expenses? (Intentional selection bias here)

Are you budgeting around 4% WR or are you planning a lower WR

We budget $60K but our actual this year will be about $45K

Edited to add Trad to Roth conversion tax payment.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: mjr on December 28, 2018, 03:19:40 PM
I've been retired and without the cash firehose for 5 months.  My WR for the 1st year looks like it'll be nearly 1% (low twenty thousands..)

After I get used to it and after the recent share market carnage has passed, maybe I'll up my spending to 2% !
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on December 28, 2018, 04:14:51 PM
Oh boy.. flame suit on.

When I retired in 2014 (to limit the shame of too many OMY's) I planned 2.8%.... Assuming we got out of the rental business.

Coming up on 5 years post fire (ignore my profitable part time gigs) and the actual was 1.5%.. I stayed in the rental business and the portfolio has grown a lot.

Our expenditure went up by 43% last year... Planned $35,000 Actual $50,000.

We have future pensions too.. I assume we are very much outliers as on paper we have chronically over saved.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: ysette9 on December 28, 2018, 07:48:06 PM
Well on the opposite end of the spending spectrum, we are planning on around $100k a year, u too the mortgage is paid off, unless we move elsewhere, which is probably only a low probability at this point.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on December 28, 2018, 11:21:21 PM
I'm new here (at least new at posting), and $2-$3M group seems to be where I am. I was on that traditional retire at 65 path, and really course corrected about 3 years ago after googling "How much is enough" and discovering the FIRE movement on the internet. I'm 52, working as a mid-level corporate manager, and my wife works in the service industry in Southern CA. I started transforming my life toward Mustachianism without knowing it about three years ago - renting out our suburban house, moving to a 2 bedroom near work, and eliminating a 3-hour round-trip commute. Now I save about 1/3 of my annual income and have liquid investments of about $2.4M. I'm targeting quitting my job in about four years at 56 when our youngest is through college and that large variable is behind us. Though I know I could go FIRE today, we would like to move back to our home community in the suburbs to stay long term, and that isn't exactly inexpensive.

I can't say I can closely relate to the 30-somethings retiring on $40k a year, but I believe these principles can be applied by anyone's situation wherever they are at. It has certainly changed my perspective and direction, and I appreciate reading all of these stories!
Welcome, @XC1984!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Fomerly known as something on December 29, 2018, 10:48:21 AM
Update on picking up a financial advisor.  Well he did just help me TLH about $800.  Long story short, I'm a Federal Employee so I'm not funding my IRA for 2019 in the manner I normally do (new cash money) as all cash is being horded until the shutdown is over.  Instead I'm just transferring money from my taxable account.  I didn't really think about which fund to take the money from.  He pointed me to getting the money ready this year by selling the lot from my international fund that had the highest loss for taxes.

As far as my future WR, from my personal investments it could be less than 1%, I have a pension that complicates my planned RE date in a good way. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on December 29, 2018, 02:24:21 PM
We were aiming to FIRE with a 70K USD annual budget plus a paid off house worth around $700K USD.

2018 wasnít a good year financially for us, so now considering options to either
 1. Delay FIRE (beyond 6/19)
 2. Reduce spending and FIRE as planned
 3. Just roll with a higher than planned draw down rate (something like 4.5% or there abouts).
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on January 01, 2019, 09:13:43 AM
I can't imagine I need more than $30-$35k a year to live including taxes. That would be about a 2.3% withdrawal rate for me.
If I were to spend $40k I would feel like I was living a life of ridiculous luxury.

But my plan is to continue to work part-time now that I'm officially retired. I enjoy my work a lot. I'm just reducing all the commuting I used to do.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Car Jack on January 01, 2019, 10:36:42 AM
I can't imagine I need more than $30-$35k a year to live including taxes. That would be about a 2.3% withdrawal rate for me.
If I were to spend $40k I would feel like I was living a life of ridiculous luxury.

But my plan is to continue to work part-time now that I'm officially retired. I enjoy my work a lot. I'm just reducing all the commuting I used to do.

Do you mean $30k to $35k plus $20k for health insurance, deductibles, copays and out of network costs?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on January 01, 2019, 10:54:33 AM
I can't imagine I need more than $30-$35k a year to live including taxes. That would be about a 2.3% withdrawal rate for me.
If I were to spend $40k I would feel like I was living a life of ridiculous luxury.

But my plan is to continue to work part-time now that I'm officially retired. I enjoy my work a lot. I'm just reducing all the commuting I used to do.

Do you mean $30k to $35k plus $20k for health insurance, deductibles, copays and out of network costs?


I don't pay $20K for health insurance, I'm using Obamacare and I get subsidies, so I pay practically nothing. I don't use medical care so I don't have these yearly deductibles, copays and out of network costs to pay.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on January 01, 2019, 11:41:25 AM
I can't imagine I need more than $30-$35k a year to live including taxes. That would be about a 2.3% withdrawal rate for me.
If I were to spend $40k I would feel like I was living a life of ridiculous luxury.

But my plan is to continue to work part-time now that I'm officially retired. I enjoy my work a lot. I'm just reducing all the commuting I used to do.

Do you mean $30k to $35k plus $20k for health insurance, deductibles, copays and out of network costs?


I don't pay $20K for health insurance, I'm using Obamacare and I get subsidies, so I pay practically nothing. I don't use medical care so I don't have these yearly deductibles, copays and out of network costs to pay.

We are in the same boat but this happy situation is somewhat tentative. What if you get cancer and your on a bronze plan.. Well you'll end up writing a check for $13,200 (in our case) plus whatever the insurance company decides they don't cover .. Pre-approval are the first words out of your mouth when the dr proposes a course of treatment!

If we were to have an accident more than about 40 miles away from home we are out of network.. The ACA has basically no protection for OON accident costs (despite what they say), the insurance company will simply pay the OON provider what they pay the in network provider.. you will get balance billed for the rest. This assumes you don't live in one of the very few states where balance billing is illegal.

So yeah, as long as nothing goes wrong then we will pay almost nothing for HC..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Threshkin on January 01, 2019, 11:57:14 AM
I can't imagine I need more than $30-$35k a year to live including taxes. That would be about a 2.3% withdrawal rate for me.
If I were to spend $40k I would feel like I was living a life of ridiculous luxury.

But my plan is to continue to work part-time now that I'm officially retired. I enjoy my work a lot. I'm just reducing all the commuting I used to do.

Do you mean $30k to $35k plus $20k for health insurance, deductibles, copays and out of network costs?


I don't pay $20K for health insurance, I'm using Obamacare and I get subsidies, so I pay practically nothing. I don't use medical care so I don't have these yearly deductibles, copays and out of network costs to pay.

We are in the same boat but this happy situation is somewhat tentative. What if you get cancer and your on a bronze plan.. Well you'll end up writing a check for $13,200 (in our case) plus whatever the insurance company decides they don't cover .. Pre-approval are the first words out of your mouth when the dr proposes a course of treatment!

If we were to have an accident more than about 40 miles away from home we are out of network.. The ACA has basically no protection for OON accident costs (despite what they say), the insurance company will simply pay the OON provider what they pay the in network provider.. you will get balance billed for the rest. This assumes you don't live in one of the very few states where balance billing is illegal.

So yeah, as long as nothing goes wrong then we will pay almost nothing for HC..:)

Exactly!  Your health care expenses may be low today but never assume they will always be low.  ACA subsidies are at risk, accidents happen, people get sick, you get old.  I pay <$120 a year for ACA insurance after subsidies and have no other significant medical expenses. But I budget $12K a year for health care (and I suspect this is low). 

One of my biggest peeves with ACA is that if you travel around the country you loose your health care coverage in most cases. 

Sometimes a think this is a conspiracy to keep people trapped in their community and prevent them from traveling to learn what life is like in different places.  Then I take off my tinfoil hat and everything gets better again.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on January 01, 2019, 12:22:31 PM
I agree that the healthcare costs are always a possible future burden. That's why I live frugally so that I'll be prepared financially in the event of an expensive health issue.
When I get to be 60 years old I hope to obtain retiree health care from a part time job I have.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on January 01, 2019, 12:37:46 PM
funny (not) but DW was saying how she would like to drive around the country to visit all the National parks one day. "I don't think thats a good idea" says I due to being wide open to almost any medical cost from a road accident or falling in the parks out of network.

The joke of it is.. We went to Europe in 2018, Ukraine, Slovenia, Croatia, UK and Ireland.. Travelled from Croatia to the UK by train.. Not a care in the World!.. Why? Well we bought travel insurance from Berkshire Hathaway that cost less than $50 for both of us for the 6 weeks.. Yes 50 bucks to anywhere, two people for 6 weeks!

So we can go anywhere in the world but can't visit our own National parks for fear of being made medically bankrupt!

Note I have not looked at the cost of buying a similar policy to cover the USA.. But still
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on January 01, 2019, 01:00:54 PM
Maybe a health insurance travel policy would solve that problem for travel in the US ?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on January 01, 2019, 02:00:24 PM
Maybe a health insurance travel policy would solve that problem for travel in the US ?

Maybe.. Certainly an avenue of research.

I do think we tend to hand wave the medical issues of RE a bit too much. MMM himself kind of brushed it off in his latest but one article telling folks to do what we have done essentially with a bronze plan.

Thats wonderful if you are fit and healthy, but if you got diabetes or cancer (or get it after you RE) then your medical costs are going to skyrocket. So you really ought to plan for an extra $15k+ to be added to your budget just in case.

I couldn't imagine coming down with a life threatening illness and then having to worry about how you are possibly going to pay for it.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: ysette9 on January 01, 2019, 02:47:03 PM
Maybe a health insurance travel policy would solve that problem for travel in the US ?
I believe I’ve read that travel insurance policies specifically exclude health care in the US. I believe it was GoCurryCracker where I read about that.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Threshkin on January 01, 2019, 07:03:25 PM
Maybe a health insurance travel policy would solve that problem for travel in the US ?
I believe Iíve read that travel insurance policies specifically exclude health care in the US. I believe it was GoCurryCracker where I read about that.

You are correct.  The US is specifically excluded from most, if not all, travel HC policies.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: pecunia on January 01, 2019, 09:54:41 PM

-SNIP-

You are correct.  The US is specifically excluded from most, if not all, travel HC policies.

It's almost an incentive to travel internationally after retiring in the US.  An earlier post said about $50 for 6 weeks of travel.

52 weeks in a year / 6 weeks coverage = 8.66 factor for an entire year

50 X 8.7 = 435 bucks for yearly insurance

That is worth some thought.  Maybe a year in the Outback is in order.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: MiserlyMiser on January 02, 2019, 03:59:21 PM
My NW was about $40k higher on December 31 than it was on January 1, but only because my salary offset the market drop.  And I had such high hopes during the good months of 2018--in my more optimistic moments, I thought I might be approaching $3M by now.

Looking back at 2018, I spent just over a 3% WR.  I need to find things to cut, because it doesn't include healthcare, which my employer is currently paying for.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on January 02, 2019, 05:05:00 PM
My NW was about $40k higher on December 31 than it was on January 1, but only because my salary offset the market drop.  And I had such high hopes during the good months of 2018--in my more optimistic moments, I thought I might be approaching $3M by now.

Looking back at 2018, I spent just over a 3% WR.  I need to find things to cut, because it doesn't include healthcare, which my employer is currently paying for.

So you're spending $75,000 a  year?  That's a lot of money. What is your mortgage payment $3,000 a month?
What's driving this high amount of spending?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: MiserlyMiser on January 02, 2019, 06:45:38 PM
It *is* high . . . I've figured part of it out.  I took that number from Personal Capital, which doesn't always classify things correctly (for example, my dividends are automatically reinvested, but PC classifies that as an expense), or recognize expenses I get reimbursed for (about $10k in work travel this year, $780 for phone).  Subtracting the things that shouldn't have been included, I'm down to about $60k.  Which is still high. 

(I initially included more detail, but I edited because I'm not comfortable having all of that information in public.  I am comfortable sharing that my mortgage is $24k ($1,800/month + taxes), I went to the eye doctor too many times, spent a lot of money on groceries (despite not eating meat) and on utilities (despite keeping my house at 60 degrees & colder at night), gave more money than usual this year to charities/political campaigns/go-fund-mes, and spent a lot of money on my dog, who recently passed away.  I haven't accounted for $10k in expenses, which I will track down somehow.)

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on January 02, 2019, 07:36:59 PM
oh ok that's a high cost of living for the housing, and may just be what it is in your area.
i'm sorry about the loss of your dog. that's an important companion.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: MiserlyMiser on January 03, 2019, 11:45:10 AM
Thanks, I appreciate it.  Not everyone takes emotional connections to pets seriously (I do), so I don't talk about it much.

At $60k spending in a MCOL, I do think it's high and there is room to cut, I will just need to dig a little to figure out what it is.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on January 03, 2019, 04:25:49 PM
I think you're in a comfortable withdrawal rate though. Sounds like you're only just  a little over 2%.
Anything less than 3.5% withdrawal rate has never in the past failed.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: JoJoP on January 13, 2019, 02:28:58 PM
I'm new here (at least new at posting), and $2-$3M group seems to be where I am. I was on that traditional retire at 65 path, and really course corrected about 3 years ago after googling "How much is enough" and discovering the FIRE movement on the internet. I'm 52, working as a mid-level corporate manager, and my wife works in the service industry in Southern CA. I started transforming my life toward Mustachianism without knowing it about three years ago - renting out our suburban house, moving to a 2 bedroom near work, and eliminating a 3-hour round-trip commute. Now I save about 1/3 of my annual income and have liquid investments of about $2.4M. I'm targeting quitting my job in about four years at 56 when our youngest is through college and that large variable is behind us. Though I know I could go FIRE today, we would like to move back to our home community in the suburbs to stay long term, and that isn't exactly inexpensive.

I can't say I can closely relate to the 30-somethings retiring on $40k a year, but I believe these principles can be applied by anyone's situation wherever they are at. It has certainly changed my perspective and direction, and I appreciate reading all of these stories!

Hi and welcome to the thread, XC1984!  I've been traveling abroad and just got home, so excuse this insert into a now diverged topic.

 There are lots of 40-50+ people on the site, and many are in this thread.  Frugality and time have done the job for many of the thread participants.   The shared stories and dialogue are fantastic.  I'm in my late 50's and my spouse is older, so we are also on the older (and richer) side of the posters here.  We worked for longer than many Mustachians, saved like crazy and made real estate investments that panned out.  All that is its own path.  There's still plenty to talk about and and lots of great input from like minded people of all ages.  As you say, the principals apply to everyone at every age.  I'm here as a kindred spirit even though we aren't as frugal as we once were-- during the earning, saving and investment stages of our lives. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: soccerluvof4 on January 16, 2019, 02:41:52 AM
I'm new here (at least new at posting), and $2-$3M group seems to be where I am. I was on that traditional retire at 65 path, and really course corrected about 3 years ago after googling "How much is enough" and discovering the FIRE movement on the internet. I'm 52, working as a mid-level corporate manager, and my wife works in the service industry in Southern CA. I started transforming my life toward Mustachianism without knowing it about three years ago - renting out our suburban house, moving to a 2 bedroom near work, and eliminating a 3-hour round-trip commute. Now I save about 1/3 of my annual income and have liquid investments of about $2.4M. I'm targeting quitting my job in about four years at 56 when our youngest is through college and that large variable is behind us. Though I know I could go FIRE today, we would like to move back to our home community in the suburbs to stay long term, and that isn't exactly inexpensive.

I can't say I can closely relate to the 30-somethings retiring on $40k a year, but I believe these principles can be applied by anyone's situation wherever they are at. It has certainly changed my perspective and direction, and I appreciate reading all of these stories!

Hi and welcome to the thread, XC1984!  I've been traveling abroad and just got home, so excuse this insert into a now diverged topic.

 There are lots of 40-50+ people on the site, and many are in this thread.  Frugality and time have done the job for many of the thread participants.   The shared stories and dialogue are fantastic.  I'm in my late 50's and my spouse is older, so we are also on the older (and richer) side of the posters here.  We worked for longer than many Mustachians, saved like crazy and made real estate investments that panned out.  All that is its own path.  There's still plenty to talk about and and lots of great input from like minded people of all ages.  As you say, the principals apply to everyone at every age.  I'm here as a kindred spirit even though we aren't as frugal as we once were-- during the earning, saving and investment stages of our lives.




Double that sentiment. You near where I was/am when I fired with 4 kids at home, 2 in college now and there are alot of unexpected costs with that at least I didn't think about even though we were fortunate that one got a full ride and one a partial . But 2 still at home. I sound kinda like you in that I started getting frugal in my later 40's and stumbled across MMM by accident then at 50 was just done.
So welcome @XC1984 . Hopefully we can get a descent bull run again so I can get back on the other-side of 3M as i got my toes wet for a few days when the market peaked and felt good.


As far as all the HC talk this is what scares the shit out of me the most and it Just sucks that we don't have a better way. Pay all these high deductible for Maybe coverage who knows and then have to save on top of it to protect for the future. Just seems harder and harder for those coming up if they want to A) fire early and B) be protected decently.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Car Jack on January 16, 2019, 07:15:35 AM
I agree that the healthcare costs are always a possible future burden. That's why I live frugally so that I'll be prepared financially in the event of an expensive health issue.
When I get to be 60 years old I hope to obtain retiree health care from a part time job I have.

You've certainly found an ideal part time job.  In my full time job, I'm still paying $10k a year in deductibles, co-pays, and out of network stuff.  A part time job with better insurance than that?  Wow.  Amazing to me.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on January 17, 2019, 09:29:34 AM
I agree that the healthcare costs are always a possible future burden. That's why I live frugally so that I'll be prepared financially in the event of an expensive health issue.
When I get to be 60 years old I hope to obtain retiree health care from a part time job I have.

You've certainly found an ideal part time job.  In my full time job, I'm still paying $10k a year in deductibles, co-pays, and out of network stuff.  A part time job with better insurance than that?  Wow.  Amazing to me.


It's through the public schools, teaching yoga, and not sure it will pan out. I have to gain 10 service credits and be 60 years old, or have 5 service credits and be 60 (but have worked for the 5 previous years). It doesn't provide health insurance now. I use ACA for that.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on January 17, 2019, 06:44:25 PM
Just for fun I checked out DW's school retirement healthcare coverage.

"Only" $1133 monthly for a high deductible plan... Geez.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on January 17, 2019, 07:52:46 PM
I'm surprised by that number. If you have reached retirement within that system then you have been paying into the medical benefits for it, and then therefore your retiree premiums will be partly subsidized.

My retiree health would have 80% of the premium covered by the school's medical retirement benefits which I pay into now as an employee..
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: soccerluvof4 on January 18, 2019, 04:35:25 AM
I'm surprised by that number. If you have reached retirement within that system then you have been paying into the medical benefits for it, and then therefore your retiree premiums will be partly subsidized.

My retiree health would have 80% of the premium covered by the school's medical retirement benefits which I pay into now as an employee..


Hopefully they don't change it on you. Nice plan. Ares isn't to bad in we don't pay much a month but we have an 8k family (6) deductible but if its ever hit anything beyond that gets reimbursed. 

Think a lot more people in our age range would be Fire'd by now if this wasn't such a concern.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Threshkin on January 18, 2019, 10:46:19 AM
I'm surprised by that number. If you have reached retirement within that system then you have been paying into the medical benefits for it, and then therefore your retiree premiums will be partly subsidized.

My retiree health would have 80% of the premium covered by the school's medical retirement benefits which I pay into now as an employee..


Hopefully they don't change it on you. Nice plan. Ares isn't to bad in we don't pay much a month but we have an 8k family (6) deductible but if its ever hit anything beyond that gets reimbursed. 

Think a lot more people in our age range would be Fire'd by now if this wasn't such a concern.

I was pleasantly surprised when we got off COBRA to have our healthcare expenses drop from ~1K/mo to less than $5/mo for a HDHP plan that allows HCA contributions.  Gotta love the ACA subsidies!  Since we are FIRE we actually need to do Trad to Roth conversions to bring our taxable income UP.  We have enough in our Trad plans to do this for 7-10 years depending on market returns.

Note: I knew our cost would go down, I was surprised (shocked), that it went down that much.)

Note2: Two adults, >50, no chronic health issues.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on January 18, 2019, 11:35:43 AM
I'm surprised by that number. If you have reached retirement within that system then you have been paying into the medical benefits for it, and then therefore your retiree premiums will be partly subsidized.

My retiree health would have 80% of the premium covered by the school's medical retirement benefits which I pay into now as an employee..


Hopefully they don't change it on you. Nice plan. Ares isn't to bad in we don't pay much a month but we have an 8k family (6) deductible but if its ever hit anything beyond that gets reimbursed. 

Think a lot more people in our age range would be Fire'd by now if this wasn't such a concern.

I was pleasantly surprised when we got off COBRA to have our healthcare expenses drop from ~1K/mo to less than $5/mo for a HDHP plan that allows HCA contributions.  Gotta love the ACA subsidies!  Since we are FIRE we actually need to do Trad to Roth conversions to bring our taxable income UP.  We have enough in our Trad plans to do this for 7-10 years depending on market returns.

Note: I knew our cost would go down, I was surprised (shocked), that it went down that much.)

Note2: Two adults, >50, no chronic health issues.

Yes same here. In fact I have discovered that with a MAGI for between $30 and 40K the subsidy is exactly the same, plus federal income taxes are zero (at least at $30K MAGI).  I would like to convert some trad to Roth but our problem is the 9% state income tax which will nail us on the extra income. Still might be worth it to avoid some RMD taxes later.

My big problem with our shitty HC plan is if something happens out of network (like and car wreck 40 miles away from home).. This could easily lead to bankruptcy sized bills.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: webguy on January 18, 2019, 03:18:50 PM
I'd like to join to help motivate me. Currently at $540k and hope to hit the big 1M in the next couple of years.

I made it to $748k! Keep saving everybody!!

I made it to $988k and was getting excited... and then taxes hit! Looks like it'll be another few months yet :(

I finally did it!! Crawled over the line to $1,000,330 today!  Feels pretty surreal. Never thought I'd actually be worth a million dollars. Now I guess I keep on saving towards the next million!

Currently at $1.11m.  Don't really have a goal number at this point. I love running my own business so just tryna ride it out as long as possible and "make hay while the sun shines" as they say.

Passed the half way point!  Somehow we have $1.535m. Not sure how long the next 0.465 will take but I'll report back if we get there!

It took a little longer than Iíd hoped due to the market being a douchebag lately but we Just hit 2 million today! Weíre officially multi-millionaires I guess! I crunched the numbers and I think our ďfat fireĒ number is around 2.5-3M so Iíll probably keep trucking away till we hit that, then Iím not sure what Iíll do.

Can I join your thread?  We just hit 2M yesterday! And with the friendly market today we're up another 15k already!  I'm carrying over our progress from the race to 2M thread if that's OK as I like keeping track of it this way.

Felt like we got stuck around 2.3M forever but finally hit 2.5M today! Next stop 3M... and beyond!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on January 18, 2019, 03:29:20 PM
$2.5M at 33 years old is exceptional progress.. What you do for a living.. Rob banks?..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on January 18, 2019, 04:18:55 PM
$2.5M at 33 years old is exceptional progress.. What you do for a living.. Rob banks?..:)


Probably a high tech employee who is getting stock option bonuses that he is able to exercise.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Threshkin on January 18, 2019, 05:14:53 PM
I'm surprised by that number. If you have reached retirement within that system then you have been paying into the medical benefits for it, and then therefore your retiree premiums will be partly subsidized.

My retiree health would have 80% of the premium covered by the school's medical retirement benefits which I pay into now as an employee..


Hopefully they don't change it on you. Nice plan. Ares isn't to bad in we don't pay much a month but we have an 8k family (6) deductible but if its ever hit anything beyond that gets reimbursed. 

Think a lot more people in our age range would be Fire'd by now if this wasn't such a concern.

I was pleasantly surprised when we got off COBRA to have our healthcare expenses drop from ~1K/mo to less than $5/mo for a HDHP plan that allows HCA contributions.  Gotta love the ACA subsidies!  Since we are FIRE we actually need to do Trad to Roth conversions to bring our taxable income UP.  We have enough in our Trad plans to do this for 7-10 years depending on market returns.

Note: I knew our cost would go down, I was surprised (shocked), that it went down that much.)

Note2: Two adults, >50, no chronic health issues.

Yes same here. In fact I have discovered that with a MAGI for between $30 and 40K the subsidy is exactly the same, plus federal income taxes are zero (at least at $30K MAGI).  I would like to convert some trad to Roth but our problem is the 9% state income tax which will nail us on the extra income. Still might be worth it to avoid some RMD taxes later.

My big problem with our shitty HC plan is if something happens out of network (like and car wreck 40 miles away from home).. This could easily lead to bankruptcy sized bills.

We have a Kaiser plan and were told we would be in-network in any Kaiser facility nationwide.  We have not tested this though!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on January 18, 2019, 06:29:12 PM
Assuming you get taken to a Kaiser facility when they scrape you off the road.

Do they have Kaiser facilities country wide?

We have Providence (as Kaiser does not exist until about 50 miles north of us)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Threshkin on January 18, 2019, 07:05:14 PM
Assuming you get taken to a Kaiser facility when they scrape you off the road.

Do they have Kaiser facilities country wide?

We have Providence (as Kaiser does not exist until about 50 miles north of us)

Agreed, the lack of health care insurance portability is one of my biggest gripes about the current US system.  But Kaiser has the biggest coverage area I found.  With many policies you are screwed if you are 50 miles from home, much less across the country. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on January 18, 2019, 07:34:58 PM
Assuming you get taken to a Kaiser facility when they scrape you off the road.

Do they have Kaiser facilities country wide?

We have Providence (as Kaiser does not exist until about 50 miles north of us)

Agreed, the lack of health care insurance portability is one of my biggest gripes about the current US system.  But Kaiser has the biggest coverage area I found.  With many policies you are screwed if you are 50 miles from home, much less across the country.

Yeah, its a shame because the Kaiser facilities start just 50 miles north of us AND are cheaper than the Providence plans to boot.

It all sucks big time..:(
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: ysette9 on January 18, 2019, 08:39:48 PM
I can’t say enough good things about kaiser. Haven’t yet had to test getting care outside a Kaiser system, but my cousin seemed to have no problem when he broke his leg in Taiwan while on kaiser.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: webguy on January 18, 2019, 10:14:03 PM
$2.5M at 33 years old is exceptional progress.. What you do for a living.. Rob banks?..:)

Probably a high tech employee who is getting stock option bonuses that he is able to exercise.

I wish Iíd gotten some stock options! I just run a little software development company from my home office and Iíve been fortunate that itís been pretty profitable so far.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: soccerluvof4 on January 19, 2019, 03:10:13 AM
$2.5M at 33 years old is exceptional progress.. What you do for a living.. Rob banks?..:)

Probably a high tech employee who is getting stock option bonuses that he is able to exercise.

I wish Iíd gotten some stock options! I just run a little software development company from my home office and Iíve been fortunate that itís been pretty profitable so far.



That's pretty sweet gig you got going! I had a really good gig when I was your age and should of fired with 3-4xs than I did but got caught up in some bad real estate investments and it all went to hell in 08 plus it was all my cash I didn't borrow any. Add to that the area flooded so bad to this day the prices haven't come back so as they say stick with what you know. Good to see young people that have there shit together! my hats off to you.  I cant complain though I was still able to fire at 50 but easily could of been 40 with same amount that I have now. Be hard at your age to not ride that gig out for awhile too as long as it doesn't start running you.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: webguy on January 23, 2019, 01:58:13 PM
$2.5M at 33 years old is exceptional progress.. What you do for a living.. Rob banks?..:)

Probably a high tech employee who is getting stock option bonuses that he is able to exercise.

I wish Iíd gotten some stock options! I just run a little software development company from my home office and Iíve been fortunate that itís been pretty profitable so far.

That's pretty sweet gig you got going! I had a really good gig when I was your age and should of fired with 3-4xs than I did but got caught up in some bad real estate investments and it all went to hell in 08 plus it was all my cash I didn't borrow any. Add to that the area flooded so bad to this day the prices haven't come back so as they say stick with what you know. Good to see young people that have there shit together! my hats off to you.  I cant complain though I was still able to fire at 50 but easily could of been 40 with same amount that I have now. Be hard at your age to not ride that gig out for awhile too as long as it doesn't start running you.

Sorry to hear of your bad luck with real estate.  I think my plan as of right now is that once I hit 3.5M in a couple years then I'll use some of the profits of the business to try to hire out my role so that I can be more passive in my involvement.  3.5M should give us 2.5M invested to live off, a paid off 650k house, and a paid off 350k cabin.  Seems like that should do us just fine.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: 2Birds1Stone on January 24, 2019, 06:36:08 AM
You're a huge inspiration @webguy.

This is from your first post on MMM over 6 years ago!

My goal that I set my wife and I is to save 250k over the next 5 years so that when we have kids at that time then we can create some flexibility in our work situations (maybe part-time or a full-time freelancer from home).
Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on January 24, 2019, 08:34:07 AM
You're a huge inspiration @webguy.

This is from your first post on MMM over 6 years ago!

My goal that I set my wife and I is to save 250k over the next 5 years so that when we have kids at that time then we can create some flexibility in our work situations (maybe part-time or a full-time freelancer from home).
Thanks in advance!

Just like other high earners like MMM, 1500days, MrTakoEscapes, RetireBy40, and RootOfGood were Ďinspirationalí.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: pecunia on January 24, 2019, 12:12:54 PM
From a plan to save $250,000 to achieving 10X that much.  It makes one a believer in what a little frugality and thoughtful money investing can do for you.  Wow!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on January 24, 2019, 12:21:24 PM
"Money, money, money, must be funny, in a rich man's world"...:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on January 24, 2019, 11:02:14 PM
"Money, money, money, must be funny, in a rich man's world"...:)
Always sunny, too ;-)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: webguy on January 25, 2019, 08:14:21 AM
You're a huge inspiration @webguy.

This is from your first post on MMM over 6 years ago!

My goal that I set my wife and I is to save 250k over the next 5 years so that when we have kids at that time then we can create some flexibility in our work situations (maybe part-time or a full-time freelancer from home).
Thanks in advance!

Thanks, I appreciate it!  Definitely never dreamed Iíd be able to amass this much money, I was making somewhere around 60k back then I think and my wife somewhere around 39. Following a mustachian lifestyle allowed me to take some risks I wouldnít otherwise have been able to take, coupled with lots of hard work and a sprinkle of luck of course.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on January 25, 2019, 12:36:20 PM
You're a huge inspiration @webguy.

This is from your first post on MMM over 6 years ago!

My goal that I set my wife and I is to save 250k over the next 5 years so that when we have kids at that time then we can create some flexibility in our work situations (maybe part-time or a full-time freelancer from home).
Thanks in advance!

Thanks, I appreciate it!  Definitely never dreamed Iíd be able to amass this much money, I was making somewhere around 60k back then I think and my wife somewhere around 39. Following a mustachian lifestyle allowed me to take some risks I wouldnít otherwise have been able to take, coupled with lots of hard work and a sprinkle of luck of course.

It is interesting to look down from these lofty levels and think .. How the heck did this happen?.. And "If I had about twice as much as I do now"....:).

But seriously, well done!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: pecunia on January 26, 2019, 12:29:04 PM

-  KER SNIP -

It is interesting to look down from these lofty levels and think .. How the heck did this happen?.. And "If I had about twice as much as I do now"....:).

But seriously, well done!

- And I note he lives in the land of 10,000 taxes! -
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: soccerluvof4 on January 27, 2019, 04:55:23 AM

-  KER SNIP -

It is interesting to look down from these lofty levels and think .. How the heck did this happen?.. And "If I had about twice as much as I do now"....:).

But seriously, well done!

- And I note he lives in the land of 10,000 taxes! -




had to laugh cuz yes he does. So much they should change there plates from lakes to taxes!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on January 27, 2019, 07:22:40 AM
He's killing it in money, so the taxes are inconsequential for him.
Moreover, the state of Minnesota has great schools, universities, and a good environment. So the taxes are worth it.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: pecunia on January 27, 2019, 08:15:31 AM
He's killing it in money, so the taxes are inconsequential for him.
Moreover, the state of Minnesota has great schools, universities, and a good environment. So the taxes are worth it.

I used to live there.  It was a good place.  Maybe, it's good when a state isn't too mustachian.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: onlykelsey on January 28, 2019, 07:36:55 AM
He's killing it in money, so the taxes are inconsequential for him.
Moreover, the state of Minnesota has great schools, universities, and a good environment. So the taxes are worth it.

I used to live there.  It was a good place.  Maybe, it's good when a state isn't too mustachian.

Yeah, Minnesota is great.  Great people, functioning infrastructure, great schools, great universities.  There is a balance. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: webguy on January 28, 2019, 01:42:18 PM
To be honest the taxes don't bother me. I moved here to Minnesota directly from the UK where the tax rates are pretty much the same, if not slightly higher.  Plus, Minnesota is pretty awesome!  Sure, the winter's are cold and snowy but that just adds to the variety of life!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: ysette9 on January 28, 2019, 02:10:28 PM
To be honest the taxes don't bother me. I moved here to Minnesota directly from the UK where the tax rates are pretty much the same, if not slightly higher.  Plus, Minnesota is pretty awesome!  Sure, the winter's are cold and snowy but that just adds to the variety of life!
I feel like it is easy for people to jump on the “move to where there are no taxes!”-train without stopping to ask what is paid for with taxes, and what you don’t get by living in places like that. What you should be looking at is where gives you the best total package of services and other quality-of-life improvements for your money.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on January 28, 2019, 04:22:43 PM
To be honest the taxes don't bother me. I moved here to Minnesota directly from the UK where the tax rates are pretty much the same, if not slightly higher.  Plus, Minnesota is pretty awesome!  Sure, the winter's are cold and snowy but that just adds to the variety of life!
I feel like it is easy for people to jump on the ďmove to where there are no taxes!Ē-train without stopping to ask what is paid for with taxes, and what you donít get by living in places like that. What you should be looking at is where gives you the best total package of services and other quality-of-life improvements for your money.
Sing it, sister!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: pecunia on January 28, 2019, 06:02:19 PM

I feel like it is easy for people to jump on the ďmove to where there are no taxes!Ē-train without stopping to ask what is paid for with taxes, and what you donít get by living in places like that. What you should be looking at is where gives you the best total package of services and other quality-of-life improvements for your money.

That's for sure.  Last year I worked with this heavily right wing guy who moved from Illinois (high taxes) to Indiana (lower taxes).  He was raving about how much better it was to be in that land of lower taxes.  Not long after that I drove through some backroads in Indiana.  Potholes and filled potholes were abundant.  I kept asking myself why don't they repave these roads.  Then I recalled I was in Indiana and they are happier with the low taxes.

I would take Minnesota in a heartbeat, even a cold place like Ely.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: soccerluvof4 on January 29, 2019, 04:05:58 AM

I feel like it is easy for people to jump on the ďmove to where there are no taxes!Ē-train without stopping to ask what is paid for with taxes, and what you donít get by living in places like that. What you should be looking at is where gives you the best total package of services and other quality-of-life improvements for your money.

That's for sure.  Last year I worked with this heavily right wing guy who moved from Illinois (high taxes) to Indiana (lower taxes).  He was raving about how much better it was to be in that land of lower taxes.  Not long after that I drove through some backroads in Indiana.  Potholes and filled potholes were abundant.  I kept asking myself why don't they repave these roads.  Then I recalled I was in Indiana and they are happier with the low taxes.

I would take Minnesota in a heartbeat, even a cold place like Ely.




Like most states there is good and bad to them. I go to  Indiana all the time and by West Lafayette it is extremely nice, big college town with Purdue being there.  Indianapolis has come along ways and become a very nice city that offers pretty much everything.  Up by Gary yes its a shit hole but there are a lot of nice areas to live with low taxes in Indiana. I find that to be the same in my own state as well Wisconsin. Milwaukee though getting better the areas to live are mostly a shit hole, Madison is very nice and everything between the two is really nice. Northern Wisconsin is hard to beat but like Minnesota you better be into winter sports.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Car Jack on January 29, 2019, 07:37:59 AM
If you move to a "low tax" state, be sure you understand what the taxes are.  Living in Massachusetts, I know what the taxes are on and what they're not on.  I'm paying income and property taxes and exise tax on my cars (some states call this personal property tax) and sales tax on things excluding food and clothes.

To our north, New Hampshire glowingly holds itself out as charging no income or sales tax.  There are taxes like meals tax, which tends to be missed, but of course you could simply not eat out.  Property tax tends to be around double what it is in Mass.  And of course, a huge % of NH people work in Mass, so they're paying income tax to us (thank you very much).  There are different treatments for dividends and such, so just understand these.  I used to work in NH and my cube mate lived in a town where a new high school was being built.  His property taxes doubled in one year.  In Mass, there's prop 2 1/2, (like CA) which limits property tax increases which have to be voted in for a specific project (like a school).  MA tends to also fund a huge portion of school building from state funds, softening the blow to the town.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Car Jack on February 05, 2019, 06:34:37 AM
After an absolutely horrible 2018 both personally and financially, I finally see my balances stabilizing and moving slightly up.  Clicked into the $2.3M in investments.  Not having to pay $500 per hour lawyer bills makes the school and college bills look like chicken feed now.  I might actually make more money than I spend this year.  That would be nice.  Oh....and my younger son is taking one community college course as part of his high school senior program.  $700 cost and he applied for a scholarship there and got it for $500.  Nice to see!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on February 05, 2019, 09:58:15 AM
Yes, a good start to 2019 bit I am still a ways behind my peak NW back in September last year.

Until property prices in Sydney bottom out progress towards a full recovery of NW, and the growth beyond that, will be slow.

Sydney property Prices have dropped 15% from the peak in mid 2017. I am thinking another 5% to 10% and then prices will be back aligned with what people can borrow which will support prices. That is unless interest rates go up which would cause a sh&t show at this moment (so unlikely). The Autumn selling market will be interesting to follow.

As my properties are still quite leveraged, even a 5% drop in values is pretty noticeable to my NW. I am still plenty ahead on property over the long term so I canít gripe too much though. And as we wonít be selling for at least 4 more years thereís plenty of time for some growth before then. 🤞
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on February 05, 2019, 11:18:49 AM
After an absolutely horrible 2018 both personally and financially, I finally see my balances stabilizing and moving slightly up.  Clicked into the $2.3M in investments.  Not having to pay $500 per hour lawyer bills makes the school and college bills look like chicken feed now.  I might actually make more money than I spend this year.  That would be nice.  Oh....and my younger son is taking one community college course as part of his high school senior program.  $700 cost and he applied for a scholarship there and got it for $500.  Nice to see!

What happened to you in 2018 CJ.. If you're comfortable sharing?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Car Jack on February 05, 2019, 01:59:48 PM


What happened to you in 2018 CJ.. If you're comfortable sharing?

2 completely independent legal battles.  Settled both. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on February 05, 2019, 02:32:24 PM


What happened to you in 2018 CJ.. If you're comfortable sharing?

2 completely independent legal battles.  Settled both.

Great.. Huge weight of your shoulders I'm sure!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on February 05, 2019, 04:09:03 PM


What happened to you in 2018 CJ.. If you're comfortable sharing?

2 completely independent legal battles.  Settled both.
Great.. Huge weight of your shoulders I'm sure!
@Car Jack, I wondered the same thing. I poked around in your posting history to see what I missed. I didn't find an answer, but I was impressed with the quality of your posts across the forum. Thanks for your contributions to the greater good here. I love it when people help others find their way to FIRE...and beyond. I hope "Settled both." was a good thing.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: soccerluvof4 on February 06, 2019, 03:57:26 AM
Slowly creeping up but ways to go to get to last September. Not sure if will get there but never the less at least for a bit now the trend has been up. Probably jinxed it now. Oh well! is what it is.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on February 06, 2019, 01:12:32 PM
Slowly creeping up but ways to go to get to last September. Not sure if will get there but never the less at least for a bit now the trend has been up. Probably jinxed it now. Oh well! is what it is.

You DID jinx it!.. I "should" have been back in this club today (with just my investments) but NOOOO!... :)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on February 06, 2019, 01:29:27 PM
I'd just started tipping the threshold of 2MM investments again.   No more big drops.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on February 06, 2019, 02:11:25 PM
We're all in it together. Let's enjoy the ride.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: MiserlyMiser on February 06, 2019, 03:38:47 PM
I'm just curious how you all calculate your NWs--specifically, houses and mortgages?  I don't include the value of my house, but I also don't subtract the balance of my mortgage.  My reasoning is that I don't know the exact value of my house, but (after paying down the mortgage for 12 years and seeing home values in my area improve at least somewhat from 2008) I know it's at least more than my mortgage, and I'd rather underestimate my NW than overestimate it. 
 
I'm just curious about what others do--I don't think there's wrong way. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: onlykelsey on February 06, 2019, 05:01:14 PM
I'm just curious how you all calculate your NWs--specifically, houses and mortgages?  I don't include the value of my house, but I also don't subtract the balance of my mortgage.  My reasoning is that I don't know the exact value of my house, but (after paying down the mortgage for 12 years and seeing home values in my area improve at least somewhat from 2008) I know it's at least more than my mortgage, and I'd rather underestimate my NW than overestimate it. 
 
I'm just curious about what others do--I don't think there's wrong way.
Because I know I am not living long-term in my Manhattan condo, I include its (conservative, non-zillow) value, subtract the value of my mortgage, and subtract another 50k for anticipated transaction costs on selling.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: AlexMar on February 06, 2019, 08:20:51 PM
I'm just curious how you all calculate your NWs--specifically, houses and mortgages?  I don't include the value of my house, but I also don't subtract the balance of my mortgage.  My reasoning is that I don't know the exact value of my house, but (after paying down the mortgage for 12 years and seeing home values in my area improve at least somewhat from 2008) I know it's at least more than my mortgage, and I'd rather underestimate my NW than overestimate it. 
 
I'm just curious about what others do--I don't think there's wrong way.

I use Personal Capital to calculate my Net Worth.  It includes all of my accounts, which includes credit cards, mortgage, etc. etc.  For my houses, I did some pretty simple research on comps and put in the house at a realistic value minus an estimate of realtor fees.  In other words, my house should fetch $1.5M based on recent sales, conservatively, but I put it in at $1.35M.

Your house is absolutely a part of your net worth calculation, and so is the mortgage.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: AlexMar on February 06, 2019, 08:23:40 PM
I'd like to join to help motivate me. Currently at $540k and hope to hit the big 1M in the next couple of years.

I made it to $748k! Keep saving everybody!!

I made it to $988k and was getting excited... and then taxes hit! Looks like it'll be another few months yet :(

I finally did it!! Crawled over the line to $1,000,330 today!  Feels pretty surreal. Never thought I'd actually be worth a million dollars. Now I guess I keep on saving towards the next million!

Currently at $1.11m.  Don't really have a goal number at this point. I love running my own business so just tryna ride it out as long as possible and "make hay while the sun shines" as they say.

Passed the half way point!  Somehow we have $1.535m. Not sure how long the next 0.465 will take but I'll report back if we get there!

It took a little longer than Iíd hoped due to the market being a douchebag lately but we Just hit 2 million today! Weíre officially multi-millionaires I guess! I crunched the numbers and I think our ďfat fireĒ number is around 2.5-3M so Iíll probably keep trucking away till we hit that, then Iím not sure what Iíll do.

Can I join your thread?  We just hit 2M yesterday! And with the friendly market today we're up another 15k already!  I'm carrying over our progress from the race to 2M thread if that's OK as I like keeping track of it this way.

Felt like we got stuck around 2.3M forever but finally hit 2.5M today! Next stop 3M... and beyond!

Facing the same challenge.  I've been sitting at $2.5 for at least 2 years now.  Just a TON of investments into the business is killing my savings rate, plus a bunch of spending on the house (and another house).  Kept me stagnant and I hate it.  But this year is THE year to start funneling money away again.  $3M seems so far off but I think I can hit it in 12 - 15 months (hopefully).

By the way, your story sounds a lot like mine.  I'm 2 years older than you and around the same NW, but about 8 years ago I was earning only $45k/year and 6 years later was in the $2M+ NW category. I never thought it would happen.  It's really a wild ride.  Congrats!

Fortunately, I already have a good management team in place and can work when I feel like it, which is still rather often.  My goal is to continue building the business, make a ton more money, and sell it when I'm 45 - 50 (or leave it to my kids).   The thing with owning a business is that you can really FIRE but not "really" FIRE.  So you keep earning the same if not more money but feel like you aren't tied to the job at all.  So you don't get a strong desire to FIRE.  Which is why I'd rather wait.  I'm hoping with the sale of the business and future profits plus compounding, $20M.

Best of luck with your venture!  Some of these software companies sell for huge amounts.  So you may have a total gold mine when or if you unload it someday.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: soccerluvof4 on February 07, 2019, 04:35:47 AM
Guess i did Jinx it yesterday but for the most part it was a sideways days. 5 days up I believe maybe some profit taking. Anyhow were in it for the long run so while it feels good running up gotta remind ourselves of that once in awhile BUT I'd rather be saying that back on the other side of 3M.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on February 07, 2019, 09:02:56 AM
Finally peeked at account balances yesterday. I think it was worth not looking for a while. We're not at last September's number, but it's not far off. Boy, a lot of potential stress avoided for the win!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on February 07, 2019, 11:06:15 AM
I'm having a little personal gloat cus I managed to rebalance at almosth the exact bottom in Dec and I rebalanced again on Monday.. Almost the exact top..

Should start shorting the market as clearly my track record is exemplary ..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: soccerluvof4 on February 09, 2019, 03:54:10 AM
Finally peeked at account balances yesterday. I think it was worth not looking for a while. We're not at last September's number, but it's not far off. Boy, a lot of potential stress avoided for the win!



I'm with ya on that sentiment! Was good to to see the market wold its ground yesterday so maybe, just maybe we have a chance getting back to those September numbers and beyond but this political climate is not helping things.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: wannabe-stache on February 14, 2019, 01:19:03 PM
Finally peeked at account balances yesterday. I think it was worth not looking for a while. We're not at last September's number, but it's not far off. Boy, a lot of potential stress avoided for the win!



I'm with ya on that sentiment! Was good to to see the market wold its ground yesterday so maybe, just maybe we have a chance getting back to those September numbers and beyond but this political climate is not helping things.
this is one of the (only) great things about still working and earning. despite the markets, we are still up about $300K since the lows in December due to consistent savings.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on February 14, 2019, 01:49:05 PM
Finally peeked at account balances yesterday. I think it was worth not looking for a while. We're not at last September's number, but it's not far off. Boy, a lot of potential stress avoided for the win!
I'm with ya on that sentiment! Was good to to see the market wold its ground yesterday so maybe, just maybe we have a chance getting back to those September numbers and beyond but this political climate is not helping things.
this is one of the (only) great things about still working and earning. despite the markets, we are still up about $300K since the lows in December due to consistent savings.

Yup, it's funny, I make so much more money in the 'modern era' (and get to keep much more of it due to tax reform) that I am happily pared back from taking risk in the markets.  I'm happy that we are back near S&P 2800, but I don't want to bite my nails around what Trump decides on signing legislation or what China wants to do with US bonds, etc.  Passive income no longer feels so passive, it feels like 'agreeing with things I disagree with' income.  Happy to earn good active income and feel good about what I do.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on February 14, 2019, 02:05:54 PM
You guys just wait till you're retired!..:)

It is a little nerve wracking seeing one investment dip (briefly) below $2M (even with pensions/rent that basically cover one baseline spending).

But heck.. First world problems.. get over myself..
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: soccerluvof4 on February 15, 2019, 02:38:53 AM
Finally peeked at account balances yesterday. I think it was worth not looking for a while. We're not at last September's number, but it's not far off. Boy, a lot of potential stress avoided for the win!
I'm with ya on that sentiment! Was good to to see the market wold its ground yesterday so maybe, just maybe we have a chance getting back to those September numbers and beyond but this political climate is not helping things.
this is one of the (only) great things about still working and earning. despite the markets, we are still up about $300K since the lows in December due to consistent savings.

Yup, it's funny, I make so much more money in the 'modern era' (and get to keep much more of it due to tax reform) that I am happily pared back from taking risk in the markets.  I'm happy that we are back near S&P 2800, but I don't want to bite my nails around what Trump decides on signing legislation or what China wants to do with US bonds, etc.  Passive income no longer feels so passive, it feels like 'agreeing with things I disagree with' income.  Happy to earn good active income and feel good about what I do.





Thats how i have felt lately and have found myself being a bit more defensive in things. Small adjustments like moving stuff out of VMMXX into CD's and T-Bills but never-the-less there is so much shit going on and its been a long run but it seems to always have been like this.  To your point the one good thing with me being fire'd and my DW two years ago deciding to go back to work after two years off we do save a bunch on Health Care and every dime goes into 401k, HSA etc.. that is left so that to helps us stay above water and she loves it which takes some of the guilt I was feeling since the bread winner all the years leading up to this. Were still up at least 15% from when I fire'd 4 years ago but thats playing a big part in it.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on February 15, 2019, 03:03:55 AM
I was playing around in my spreadsheets the other day and was a bit astonshied by how quickly the stash continues to grow if I am drawing down 4% but the stash is delivering a (perfectly possible) 6% real return.

With a conservative plan our futures should be bright despite all the political noise.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on February 16, 2019, 08:23:31 PM
I've been covering my face a bit, but finally checked. At $3.45M (includes property value, minus mortgage), which is down from our October high of $3.85M. Property prices have dropped a bit, actually. Which in the Bay Area, is pretty unusual. But, not unexpected, from my side. I'm expecting a further dip before things stabilize.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on February 16, 2019, 10:25:45 PM
yeah I'm getting a little nervous about this rally. I am considering moving from 8/20 (80 stocks/20 bonds plus cash) to 72/25.

I would be quite happy with continued gains at the lower stock ratio, but and extra 5% in bonds that I could roll back into stocks if the market took another sharp correction would be quite nice.

Last year out WR was about 1.5% so its not like we need to take too much risk.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on February 17, 2019, 01:48:53 AM
I don't calculate my net worth very often anymore since it involves currency fluctuations and interest rates, but this latest rally has been an unexpected surprise.  Not as exposed to it as I would have liked for my age, but I'm doing fine.  I think that the US is still seen as a stable store of value, but this battle over 8B and what a President can declare could put a damper on the market.  Or maybe China falls apart even more quickly than the US which makes us a good bet!  I just shake my head at what could have been possible had anyone other than Trump been elected :)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on February 17, 2019, 06:09:48 AM
I don't calculate my net worth very often anymore since it involves currency fluctuations and interest rates, but this latest rally has been an unexpected surprise.  Not as exposed to it as I would have liked for my age, but I'm doing fine.  I think that the US is still seen as a stable store of value, but this battle over 8B and what a President can declare could put a damper on the market.  Or maybe China falls apart even more quickly than the US which makes us a good bet!  I just shake my head at what could have been possible had anyone other than Trump been elected :)

Those of us in this thread are better off than 95 percent of the US households.   We'll weather most financial storms.   Trump has been more of a mental drain on me rather than financial.   We're holding about 250k in bond funds.  That could get us through several down years.  I'm buying more stock and bond funds as we're still working.  In a 50 percent market drop, we're still millionaires technically.   It's going to be ok.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: LWYRUP on February 17, 2019, 07:03:38 AM
Just for some context, though, I have an account that is mostly foreign stock that was over $200k this summer that is still $178k today.

So U.S. markets are at all-time highs but if you have a globally diversified portfolio you may still be under where we were in the summer. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on February 17, 2019, 12:58:10 PM
I don't calculate my net worth very often anymore since it involves currency fluctuations and interest rates, but this latest rally has been an unexpected surprise.  Not as exposed to it as I would have liked for my age, but I'm doing fine.  I think that the US is still seen as a stable store of value, but this battle over 8B and what a President can declare could put a damper on the market.  Or maybe China falls apart even more quickly than the US which makes us a good bet!  I just shake my head at what could have been possible had anyone other than Trump been elected :)

Those of us in this thread are better off than 95 percent of the US households.   We'll weather most financial storms.   Trump has been more of a mental drain on me rather than financial.   We're holding about 250k in bond funds.  That could get us through several down years.  I'm buying more stock and bond funds as we're still working.  In a 50 percent market drop, we're still millionaires technically.   It's going to be ok.

Yeah I think having a large pot is a form of hedonistic adaption.. I.e a heck of a good problem to have!

DW was asking me the other day (this is one of those "what do I do with all these funds if you get hit by a bus" conversations) what would we do if the market really tanked like it did in 2008?

without missing a bit a beat I told her.. I take my pension from the UK (OK doesn't work too well if I'm actually dead) and we tighten our belts ever so slightly.

The net result of this our WR would be zero, then we wait for the market to recover all the while still having a shit-ton of money to rebuild the house if the big earthquake happens on the left coast.

Its pretty amazing to step back from this situation realise we are all financially invincible.. almost..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: JoJoP on February 17, 2019, 04:29:35 PM
 I love it that we all have such different options.  Since our NW is 90% real estate, stock market fluctuations don't do much for our bottom line, better or worse.  If real estate tanks, or the rental market falters, then we're looking at a non diversified wealth portfolio, so to speak.   Losing a good tenant is my financial equivalent of a down day on the stock market-- something that's certain to cost me a couple of grand or more.  Ditching a bad tenant would be more like a bad quarter on the stock market.  A massive earthquake or fire storm would be my Black Friday. 

A couple of posts above, @blinx7 is down $22K since last summer, more than 10% of that account.  Ouch.  That would be about a year's loss of rental income on one of my rentals, which cost me about the same (200K ish purchase price, renting for $1900-2000 month, costing taxes and insurance, but no mortgage).   In my spread sheet, though, the income and the asset are distinct.  The asset is still there but the income is reduced.

Hearing most of you discuss the ups and downs of the stock market has given me the courage to rethink our RE-centric portfolio and get a little more cash into stocks and bonds.    From an outside perspective, I'd say ya'll rolled with the punches and bounced back pretty well.  None the worse for wear and tear! 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on February 17, 2019, 11:47:01 PM
I love it that we all have such different options.  Since our NW is 90% real estate, stock market fluctuations don't do much for our bottom line, better or worse.  If real estate tanks, or the rental market falters, then we're looking at a non diversified wealth portfolio, so to speak.   Losing a good tenant is my financial equivalent of a down day on the stock market-- something that's certain to cost me a couple of grand or more.  Ditching a bad tenant would be more like a bad quarter on the stock market.  A massive earthquake or fire storm would be my Black Friday. 

A couple of posts above, @blinx7 is down $22K since last summer, more than 10% of that account.  Ouch.  That would be about a year's loss of rental income on one of my rentals, which cost me about the same (200K ish purchase price, renting for $1900-2000 month, costing taxes and insurance, but no mortgage).   In my spread sheet, though, the income and the asset are distinct.  The asset is still there but the income is reduced.

Hearing most of you discuss the ups and downs of the stock market has given me the courage to rethink our RE-centric portfolio and get a little more cash into stocks and bonds.    From an outside perspective, I'd say ya'll rolled with the punches and bounced back pretty well.  None the worse for wear and tear!
I'd suggest that your RE is a reasonable bond equivalent. In your position, I'd focus on adding stocks to your portfolio. Reading jlcollinsnh's Stock Series is a good place to start.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: SwordGuy on February 18, 2019, 12:23:33 AM
Net worth as of:

EOY 2017: $2,523,000.
EOY 2018: $2,553,000.   
Current   : $2,625,000.

That includes real estate investments and our house less its mortgage in addition to stocks and bonds.   I see no reason to consider real estate investments as second class citizens and count them as worth nothing for this thread.   

Assuming the market remains static, we'll jump another $30,000 or so once we finish some renovations on a property in the next 2 weeks.

If we just have historical average market returns for the next 3 years we'll make $3,000,000 easy peasy.

We have some heavy investment expenses requiring cash outlays over the next 2 years.  Once those are done we'll focus on how to share the wealth rather than hoard even more of it.   

For example, I'm looking at setting up a house to rent rooms to students at a university.  They'll be able to decide whether they want to share a bedroom with another student or not, so a 4 bedroom house could house up to 8 students (assuming the local codes allow that).  (If not, then I'll use a smaller house.)

Let's pretend it takes $10,000 to keep the house operational, including vacancy, repair set asides, taxes, property management, insurance, etc.  In addition, let's assume that the house receives $20,000 in rental income.    After subtracting all the money it takes to keep the place running, we also subtract out anything the students broke by being stupid about it (as opposed to it just wearing out).  For example, they have a big party and some drunken frat boys break the deck railing because they think hitting it with hammers is cool.   Let's assume it costs $1,000 to fix that.  That leaves $9,000 income left over.  We would distribute it back to the students on a pro-rated basis.   If they recruit enough students to fill the place up and don't trash the place, then they'll get about 1/2 their rent back in time for next year's tuition payments.    I'm still researching that market and keeping an eye out for a great deal so I can't be more exact on the numbers.  My guess is I'm a year or three away from being able to pull his off, assuming the right property is available.

Plus, if I want to attend that university for fun, my own costs will be lower too.  No reason I can't help myself out while helping others!  If I run the numbers correctly, the house would be self-sustaining even after we're dead and gone.
 


Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: soccerluvof4 on February 19, 2019, 04:18:59 AM
Like i have mentioned before I keep dancing around the 3M line but I dont count my paid of Mortgage and or 529s couple other things where its money spent BUT if we had a 2008 event which I think its good to and figure out what would you do or how to protect yourself I wouldn't panic (but would freak out internally since fire'd) If the market dropped 50% as My portfolio wouldnt. Best I could tell it would have to drop closer to 75% for that to happen but I am hoping with some moves I am making I might be giving up a little upside to protect downside but you just don't know. Personally while I feel this market seems to be a bit tired and not sure if will get to September highs we could blow past it as well. Seems hard to really figure out what is really going on and what isnt. People I talk to that are alot smarter than me feel there is no reason for the market to drop for the next 2-3 years minimum but again who knows. Sentiment can do amazing things. One thing I do feel is that there is still alot of money that wants to get in and when we had the most recent drop it came back pretty damn fast as people sure bought.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on February 19, 2019, 11:54:42 AM
Yes I feel the same about the market in the short term. We currently run 80/20 (stock:bond+cash) but I am hoping today to move that to 75/25 for a little more downside protection.

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on February 23, 2019, 07:35:29 PM
I'm back up to close to $1.7 million in liquid assets, and now the home equity keeps going up, and is now $420K
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: PhrugalPhan on February 23, 2019, 10:08:47 PM
To make it to this group I had to include my GF's TSP numbers and our pensions.  Just today if I add in all my financial numbers (add in $35k in savings), my total is $955k, her's is up to $1,058k.  We're over $2 Mil!!!.  And I don't have to include my house (paid off), nor either of our pensions ($30k/yr for her starting this January - I'm vested at $31k/yr starting in 4 years).  And she finally realizes our finances will be fine (she was STILL worrying???).  We need to work on merging our households this winter and fix up my house but having money will make things happen.
Well after writing this our numbers certainly tanked last fall, but we're back to $2 Mil again ($960k for me, $1,040k for her).  And she's retired now getting a pension and doing tax return work to keep active.  Will we go up and down around that mark for some time, or are we finally going to stay above?  Inquiring minds want to know.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: soccerluvof4 on February 24, 2019, 04:28:47 AM
To make it to this group I had to include my GF's TSP numbers and our pensions.  Just today if I add in all my financial numbers (add in $35k in savings), my total is $955k, her's is up to $1,058k.  We're over $2 Mil!!!.  And I don't have to include my house (paid off), nor either of our pensions ($30k/yr for her starting this January - I'm vested at $31k/yr starting in 4 years).  And she finally realizes our finances will be fine (she was STILL worrying???).  We need to work on merging our households this winter and fix up my house but having money will make things happen.
Well after writing this our numbers certainly tanked last fall, but we're back to $2 Mil again ($960k for me, $1,040k for her).  And she's retired now getting a pension and doing tax return work to keep active.  Will we go up and down around that mark for some time, or are we finally going to stay above?  Inquiring minds want to know.


I need a couple more up days to get back to my last September Highs Dancing at that 3 mark including paid of home valued at 300 very conservatively. So to your point I hope we get it but who knows. Friday was filled with Doom and Gloom articles I read and I always like to read the comments and the one article in particular not one person disagreed with that guy up to where i read. Shouldnt of depressed myself. Guy has been predicting the collapse since the 80's.

This was the article that got to me a little bit- https://www.marketwatch.com/story/father-of-reaganomics-says-get-out-of-the-market-bonds-and-stocks-and-put-your-money-in-cash-2019-02-22?mod=hp_markets
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on February 24, 2019, 09:19:34 AM
We are still not back to September highs as yet, as we are suffering from falling property prices in addition to the volatilityís of stocks.

Auction clearance rates on the weekend in Sydney were the best they have been in many months, so there is a glimmer of hope that the correctionís downward slide is slowing down, but I think it might be a little wishful thinking on my part. We will see what the coming weeks results look like.

I have always been very overexposed and over leveraged to Sydney realestate, and have done well in a rising market over the past 20 years. Now the market has turned I am hemoraging a bit.

I think it could take most of 2019 to get back to my August 2018 high water mark even with a high savings rate. It really depends on how much more prices fall.

Itís a tad frustrating when I called the top of the property market in early 2017 but after much deliberation decided not to sell out of the market at that time.

The funny thing is we decided not to sell back then on the chance we might need to return to Sydney for work, and now with the drop in property prices it probably means we will end up having to work in Sydney once more (although hoping otherwise), whereas if we had sold in 2017 we would have enough in our stash not to have to work again. Hindsight is wonderful!

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: ysette9 on March 01, 2019, 03:27:17 PM
Totaled up our non-529 investment accounts last night and got an amazing $1.96. You’d been warned: I’ll be joining this thread soon enough!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on March 01, 2019, 07:28:05 PM
Totaled up our non-529 investment accounts last night and got an amazing $1.96. Youíd been warned: Iíll be joining this thread soon enough!

Was this after Friday's close? If it was Thursday you should be over the bar now..:)

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on March 01, 2019, 08:30:31 PM
Welcome, ysettee9! :-)

My husband finally sent me info on his accounts that I don't have login access for. We're up to $3.558M. Stock/retirement is up, we've continued to pay down our mortgage debt, all of which has led to some nice gains from this time last year. Our house value continues to be the weak spot, as zillow shows a small decline. We're not worried, as we have a significant amount of equity & aren't terribly surprised by the small blip. Still up $500K in 2 years time.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on March 01, 2019, 10:01:06 PM
Totaled up our non-529 investment accounts last night and got an amazing $1.96. Youíd been warned: Iíll be joining this thread soon enough!
Come on over, @ysette9! True confession - I only spitball our number. DH has a very generous Defined Benefit Pension that he can activate in two years. I know there's a formula to calculate the value of this, but I can't be arsed. We also have rentals. It's hard to gauge what they would actually sell for. They're in a resort area, so the price can vary a lot depending when they go on the market. Most people on this thread don't include equity, but our $1.4M home is paid for and we fully intend to downsize when DH retires, so I throw it on the pile. Hell, I could even be in the "and beyond!" section. I just don't think it's that important to fret every single dollar. It's a game of horseshoes for me. Close enough still wins.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on March 02, 2019, 01:58:01 AM
Totaled up our non-529 investment accounts last night and got an amazing $1.96. Youíd been warned: Iíll be joining this thread soon enough!
Come on over, @ysette9! True confession - I only spitball our number. DH has a very generous Defined Benefit Pension that he can activate in two years. I know there's a formula to calculate the value of this, but I can't be arsed. We also have rentals. It's hard to gauge what they would actually sell for. They're in a resort area, so the price can vary a lot depending when they go on the market. Most people on this thread don't include equity, but our $1.4M home is paid for and we fully intend to downsize when DH retires, so I throw it on the pile. Hell, I could even be in the "and beyond!" section. I just don't think it's that important to fret every single dollar. It's a game of horseshoes for me. Close enough still wins.

Exactly! When you are beyond a certain point it really is meaningless. If you are significantly beyond a certain point (like say 2% WR or less) its completely irrelevant. If fact its almost impossible for ones NW to not continue to climb with time.

I noted that I was down about $300k by Christmas Eve but it made no difference whatsoever, even with being retired.

The biggest problem is going to be some significant tax bills come RMD time.. Either that or we start spending a lot more money than we are now!

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: soccerluvof4 on March 02, 2019, 09:30:54 AM
Totaled up our non-529 investment accounts last night and got an amazing $1.96. Youíd been warned: Iíll be joining this thread soon enough!
Come on over, @ysette9! True confession - I only spitball our number. DH has a very generous Defined Benefit Pension that he can activate in two years. I know there's a formula to calculate the value of this, but I can't be arsed. We also have rentals. It's hard to gauge what they would actually sell for. They're in a resort area, so the price can vary a lot depending when they go on the market. Most people on this thread don't include equity, but our $1.4M home is paid for and we fully intend to downsize when DH retires, so I throw it on the pile. Hell, I could even be in the "and beyond!" section. I just don't think it's that important to fret every single dollar. It's a game of horseshoes for me. Close enough still wins.

Exactly! When you are beyond a certain point it really is meaningless. If you are significantly beyond a certain point (like say 2% WR or less) its completely irrelevant. If fact its almost impossible for ones NW to not continue to climb with time.

I noted that I was down about $300k by Christmas Eve but it made no difference whatsoever, even with being retired.

The biggest problem is going to be some significant tax bills come RMD time.. Either that or we start spending a lot more money than we are now!



Totally! I basically look at it like on April 2nd I will be fire'd 4 years and I have more than I did fire'd and for 2 years did a 5% withdrawal to do some work on the house and stuff. Might not be at my all time highs but sniffing around it and the plan is working.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Fomerly known as something on March 04, 2019, 05:13:51 AM
Totaled up our non-529 investment accounts last night and got an amazing $1.96. Youíd been warned: Iíll be joining this thread soon enough!
Come on over, @ysette9! True confession - I only spitball our number. DH has a very generous Defined Benefit Pension that he can activate in two years. I know there's a formula to calculate the value of this, but I can't be arsed. We also have rentals. It's hard to gauge what they would actually sell for. They're in a resort area, so the price can vary a lot depending when they go on the market. Most people on this thread don't include equity, but our $1.4M home is paid for and we fully intend to downsize when DH retires, so I throw it on the pile. Hell, I could even be in the "and beyond!" section. I just don't think it's that important to fret every single dollar. It's a game of horseshoes for me. Close enough still wins.

I'm here if I count my pension.  I'm not in a system that connects a lump sum value to it.  I figure current vested at age 62 if I left tomorrow using the 4% rule puts it at $625,000 which moves me into this thread.  If I'm just count what I track in my accounts I'm solidly in the middle of $1-2 million arena.  I do count home value but I discount it by about 20% in part because I have chosen to keep a low cost mortgage and invest the difference.  In my mind by leveraging my home I have more invested so the home also needs to be accounted for as both an asset and a liability. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: ysette9 on March 04, 2019, 07:50:42 AM
I’ll get a pension one day! I calculated the present value of it a bit back when I was switching employers to understand what I was walking away from if I didn’t stick with the pension system. The PV of my pension is $36k. I’m rolling in it.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on March 04, 2019, 09:12:42 AM
Perhaps I should have mentioned that DH's pension alone will generate enough for us to live on, not counting rental income, investments or SS. Crazy!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: ysette9 on March 04, 2019, 09:29:33 AM
What a wonderful position for you to be in.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on March 04, 2019, 11:49:05 AM
Dicey you've rolled the dice and come up with a pair of sixes.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: RWD on March 04, 2019, 11:54:54 AM
Dicey you've rolled the dice and come up with a pair of sixes.

Looks like a 4 and a 5 to me.  =P
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on March 04, 2019, 12:09:18 PM
Damn Dicey!....:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: JoJoP on March 04, 2019, 08:13:49 PM
Wow Dicey, that means you're FREEEEEEE!  Enjoy your FI.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on March 05, 2019, 02:06:53 AM
Dicey you've rolled the dice and come up with a pair of sixes.

Looks like a 4 and a 5 to me.  =P
Hee, my thoughts exactly. I actually had to double check my avatar.

You guys, the best thing is that we were never huge wage earners I thought I broke $100k once when I was self employed, but the SS website says I'm smoking something. DH took a huge pay cut to take his current job, because of the excellent benefits. It is paying off beyond anything he ever expected. Also, a lot of guys try to goose their retirements by taking promotions they don't want or aren't suited for or they work tons of OT. DH can just keep cruising along, doing his thing until it's time to pull the plug. The biggest item we're holding on for is the generous healthcare package that retirees are eligible for.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Fomerly known as something on March 05, 2019, 04:46:12 AM
Dicey, I'm basically in the same situation.  I might have to take out less than $10000 above my pension to cover my basic living expenses (including paying the mortgage I'm not paying off.).  It really depends on COL raises until retirement plus how the equation ends up sorting out.  But I have 6.5 years left until I will qualify for subsidized health care for life. 

The funny thing for me lately is because I was hired young, I can retire young.  I've had a lot of older employees to including my boss tell me what I could do with a specific set of skills I'm currently developing as a second job/career.  I'm only developing these skills because they make my current job more interesting not because of a real interest.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: soccerluvof4 on March 05, 2019, 06:29:52 AM
Would of been so nice to have a pension. What is it now less than 15% of the Population has a pension I read. Another good thing going bye bye.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: JoJoP on March 05, 2019, 09:09:05 AM
We've always been self employed, no pensions.  DH's younger brother worked for the fire department and retired a couple of years ago on 90% salary plus benefits.  The stark difference of our two situations was apparent that year.   I think our personalities are such that a corporate job wouldn't have been/wasn't  a good fit, but here, at the other end of a work career, we can't help but notice the difference.   Luckily we invested in rentals on our good years, and that's our Retirement Plan. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: ysette9 on March 05, 2019, 09:15:57 AM
I never counted on my pension even when working at a place that had it, though I suppose it isn’t a bad thing to have. The people hired after me didn’t get pension but got additional money into a separate 401k-like retirement savings account. As they froze the pension for those of us who did have it the company started increasing the 401k contributions instead. Looking back on it I would have rather had the company put more money into my 401k from the get-go,  it I think for 90% of the people out there having a pension would be a much better thing than self-directed retirement savings.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Car Jack on March 05, 2019, 09:26:03 AM
I don't even really consider my pension as anything when tallying up my investments.  It's small, but something.  I'll be able to take a lump sum at 65, if I want or do the payments in various options to include my wife.  I'll have to talk with her about it as we get closer.  As I understand it, I can roll the lump sum into an IRA, but that adds to RMDs, so still not sure which way I'll go.  If I do 100% continuation for my wife, I'll get $300 a month at 65.  It actually drops if I wait longer.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on March 06, 2019, 07:16:05 AM
My pension was yanked in 2012 after 20 years of service.  They froze it and started giving us more 401k contributions.   I'd probably be better off if I'd had the 401k, with extra contributions from the start.  That being said, I never trusted the company way back in the day to honor the pension.  It's just too expensive as the number of retirees grow.  It's an annuity so it does end with death of self/spouse.  The company started in the early 70s so it took a while for the retirees that started younger to start drawing money.  Only now do we hear of the deaths of those people who started then.  Pensions are basically pyramid schemes.  They pay the early users well and for later employees there is an empty bag.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: PhrugalPhan on March 08, 2019, 12:01:36 PM
Like others here both the GF and I have pensions.  When I work up our worth I certainly include an estimate for their value.  Our investments are near the $2 Mil mark (nearly a 50/50 split), and if I had to guess our pensions' worth I would put them at near $1.5 Mil.  The pensions should cover 100% of our needs when I start getting mine (she has just started getting hers, I have to wait 4 more years).

She gets the subsidzed health care for life too, and both have COLAs.

I don't include my paid off house (gotta live somewhere), nor our paid off cars in our net worth, though you certainly can.

My biggest long term concern right now is taxes down the road.  With all of her withdrawals going to be taxed I'm trying to get as much of my savings into Roth style products as I can without raising my current taxes too bad.  Once we hit 71 and have RMDs, our yearly income (2 SSI, $70k+ pension, probably $100k+ RMDs) will be so high that taxes are going to be a major headache.  Once her son is out of college (in 2 years) we're going to be converting / rolling over money to Roth every year as much as is practical (10 year window).  Its a good problem to have I guess, but still, this is going to take some work to do it right.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on March 10, 2019, 06:04:05 AM
After a şuckey week in the market, we just barely stayed above 2MM.  There is no such thing as slow and steady growth. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: soccerluvof4 on March 10, 2019, 07:53:06 AM
After a şuckey week in the market, we just barely stayed above 2MM.  There is no such thing as slow and steady growth.



Got that right! ouch this weak!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Taran Wanderer on March 10, 2019, 09:45:17 AM
Bonus and profit sharing payments are pushing us over $2 million this month. With the market flat to down, itís a good time to get these lump sums. As we cross this milestone, I find my motivation at work changing. I feel more freedom to tell it like I see it.  I look for opportunities to help those on my team perform and grow, and to showcase and recognize their work. Instead of taking on personnel pressure to get things done, I talk about our resources and priorities, and how we need more resources (people or money) if we have so many high priorities to get done.  I still want to accomplish big things, but I feel disinclined to set myself up for a heart attack while doing so.

So I wonder, will I race from $2 million to $3 million, or will I float?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: sixwings on March 10, 2019, 10:09:26 AM
My pension was yanked in 2012 after 20 years of service.  They froze it and started giving us more 401k contributions.   I'd probably be better off if I'd had the 401k, with extra contributions from the start.  That being said, I never trusted the company way back in the day to honor the pension.  It's just too expensive as the number of retirees grow.  It's an annuity so it does end with death of self/spouse.  The company started in the early 70s so it took a while for the retirees that started younger to start drawing money.  Only now do we hear of the deaths of those people who started then.  Pensions are basically pyramid schemes. They pay the early users well and for later employees there is an empty bag.

When done properly this isn't really true. I work in pension administration and unfortunately a lot of companies kicked the can down the road. They were told for decades that contributions weren't high enough and they did nothing about it hoping to figure it out in the future. The plans I administer are all 100-105% funded but our contributions are quite high (mine are 9%, employer contributes 10%). My pension formula is 2% x years of service x average of 5 highest earning years. I was a conference a few months ago and some plan administrator from the US was bragging about their plan being 53% funded... 3% contribution rates just aren't high enough.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on March 10, 2019, 12:51:38 PM
My pension was yanked in 2012 after 20 years of service.  They froze it and started giving us more 401k contributions.   I'd probably be better off if I'd had the 401k, with extra contributions from the start.  That being said, I never trusted the company way back in the day to honor the pension.  It's just too expensive as the number of retirees grow.  It's an annuity so it does end with death of self/spouse.  The company started in the early 70s so it took a while for the retirees that started younger to start drawing money.  Only now do we hear of the deaths of those people who started then.  Pensions are basically pyramid schemes. They pay the early users well and for later employees there is an empty bag.

When done properly this isn't really true. I work in pension administration and unfortunately a lot of companies kicked the can down the road. They were told for decades that contributions weren't high enough and they did nothing about it hoping to figure it out in the future. The plans I administer are all 100-105% funded but our contributions are quite high (mine are 9%, employer contributes 10%). My pension formula is 2% x years of service x average of 5 highest earning years. I was a conference a few months ago and some plan administrator from the US was bragging about their plan being 53% funded... 3% contribution rates just aren't high enough.

I really appreciate what you're stating here. I took an accounting class that included the very complicated subject of pension accounting. There were a number of factors that could combine together to necessitate the need to increase contributions to a pension fund, a bad year in the markets, a declining discount rate, etc.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on March 11, 2019, 12:49:32 AM
Any of you guys do a Millionaire interview?   Podcast or YouTube?   My life is so boring I'd be the dullest millionaire on the planet.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on March 11, 2019, 04:16:37 AM
Any of you guys do a Millionaire interview?   Podcast or YouTube?   My life is so boring I'd be the dullest millionaire on the planet.

I almost called up Dave Ramsey once.. But nah..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: pecunia on March 11, 2019, 04:45:01 AM
Any of you guys do a Millionaire interview?   Podcast or YouTube?   My life is so boring I'd be the dullest millionaire on the planet.

How about a million pennies?  Would that count?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: onlykelsey on March 11, 2019, 07:47:51 AM
My pension was yanked in 2012 after 20 years of service.  They froze it and started giving us more 401k contributions.   I'd probably be better off if I'd had the 401k, with extra contributions from the start.  That being said, I never trusted the company way back in the day to honor the pension.  It's just too expensive as the number of retirees grow.  It's an annuity so it does end with death of self/spouse.  The company started in the early 70s so it took a while for the retirees that started younger to start drawing money.  Only now do we hear of the deaths of those people who started then.  Pensions are basically pyramid schemes. They pay the early users well and for later employees there is an empty bag.

When done properly this isn't really true. I work in pension administration and unfortunately a lot of companies kicked the can down the road. They were told for decades that contributions weren't high enough and they did nothing about it hoping to figure it out in the future. The plans I administer are all 100-105% funded but our contributions are quite high (mine are 9%, employer contributes 10%). My pension formula is 2% x years of service x average of 5 highest earning years. I was a conference a few months ago and some plan administrator from the US was bragging about their plan being 53% funded... 3% contribution rates just aren't high enough.

I really appreciate what you're stating here. I took an accounting class that included the very complicated subject of pension accounting. There were a number of factors that could combine together to necessitate the need to increase contributions to a pension fund, a bad year in the markets, a declining discount rate, etc.
If you ever want to be horrified, read Kentucky Fried Pensions.

That said, I'm considering going to work for one, so I'd be exposed to the risk both as an employee and as a beneficiary of the plan.  They're ~90% funded which is about as good as it gets now, I think.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on March 11, 2019, 07:56:04 AM
Hmmm, I think we need to look into how well DH's pension is funded. Thanks for this!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on March 11, 2019, 11:45:27 AM
Hmmm, I think we need to look into how well DH's pension is funded. Thanks for this!

We did get warning letters telling us how many millions our pension was underfunded.   They had no choice, it's required by law.

Then, they legally froze the pensions.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on March 11, 2019, 08:48:05 PM
Hmmm, I think we need to look into how well DH's pension is funded. Thanks for this!

We did get warning letters telling us how many millions our pension was underfunded.   They had no choice, it's required by law.

Then, they legally froze the pensions.

After today you're firmly back in the club no?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on March 11, 2019, 11:48:36 PM
Hmmm, I think we need to look into how well DH's pension is funded. Thanks for this!
Ruh-roh. DH says they report there's $453M in their pension fund. He says they've been reporting the same number for nearly twenty years. His contribution was 6.75% when he started, but pension reform in 2013 bumped it to 8.75%. Trouble is, we have no idea what their projected liabilities are. DH says he'll look into it.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: onlykelsey on March 12, 2019, 08:00:51 AM
Hmmm, I think we need to look into how well DH's pension is funded. Thanks for this!
Ruh-roh. DH says they report there's $453M in their pension fund. He says they've been reporting the same number for nearly twenty years. His contribution was 6.75% when he started, but pension reform in 2013 bumped it to 8.75%. Trouble is, we have no idea what their projected liabilities are. DH says he'll look into it.
Is it a pension of a public company? government?  Might be able to help you find it.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on March 12, 2019, 10:18:02 AM
Hmmm, I think we need to look into how well DH's pension is funded. Thanks for this!
Ruh-roh. DH says they report there's $453M in their pension fund. He says they've been reporting the same number for nearly twenty years. His contribution was 6.75% when he started, but pension reform in 2013 bumped it to 8.75%. Trouble is, we have no idea what their projected liabilities are. DH says he'll look into it.
Is it a pension of a public company? government?  Might be able to help you find it.
Thanks, I'll PM you if we can't find it. DH thinks he has access to it. He says he only remembers the total, because it doesn't vary much from year to year, which he finds suspicious.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on March 12, 2019, 01:16:36 PM
Hmmm, I think we need to look into how well DH's pension is funded. Thanks for this!

We did get warning letters telling us how many millions our pension was underfunded.   They had no choice, it's required by law.

Then, they legally froze the pensions.

After today you're firmly back in the club no?

Oh yea.  Still in the club.  I've only crossed the 2MM investments line by a few tens of thousands.   I'm hoping to get a few hundred thousand past and will feel much safer.  I've all but decided that I'm waiting on the 2020 election to pass before FIRE.  So the Firehose is still filling the tank.   
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Threshkin on March 13, 2019, 01:23:22 PM
Happily sitting in the middle of this demographic, give or take market fluctuations.

No pensions in our future but according to our current projections we turn net positive income from SS alone when we decide to start it.  Will probably hold out until I hit 70 provided our health stays good.  After that the nest egg just keeps growing.  Definite MPP.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on March 13, 2019, 04:49:44 PM
Happily sitting in the middle of this demographic, give or take market fluctuations.

No pensions in our future but according to our current projections we turn net positive income from SS alone when we decide to start it.  Will probably hold out until I hit 70 provided our health stays good.  After that the nest egg just keeps growing.  Definite MPP.

But are you sure you will have enough money?...;)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Threshkin on March 13, 2019, 09:24:25 PM
Happily sitting in the middle of this demographic, give or take market fluctuations.

No pensions in our future but according to our current projections we turn net positive income from SS alone when we decide to start it.  Will probably hold out until I hit 70 provided our health stays good.  After that the nest egg just keeps growing.  Definite MPP.

But are you sure you will have enough money?...;)

DW is not convinced.  She does not like market fluctuations at all.  Explaining why being down for 2018 didn't really matter was difficult.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on March 14, 2019, 12:40:55 AM
Happily sitting in the middle of this demographic, give or take market fluctuations.

No pensions in our future but according to our current projections we turn net positive income from SS alone when we decide to start it.  Will probably hold out until I hit 70 provided our health stays good.  After that the nest egg just keeps growing.  Definite MPP.

But are you sure you will have enough money?...;)

DW is not convinced.  She does not like market fluctuations at all.  Explaining why being down for 2018 didn't really matter was difficult.

Yeah thats a tough one.. Heck I had a hard enough time trying to convince myself!.. Fortunately my DW doesn't care about money..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: soccerluvof4 on March 16, 2019, 05:19:31 AM
Happily sitting in the middle of this demographic, give or take market fluctuations.

No pensions in our future but according to our current projections we turn net positive income from SS alone when we decide to start it.  Will probably hold out until I hit 70 provided our health stays good.  After that the nest egg just keeps growing.  Definite MPP.

But are you sure you will have enough money?...;)

DW is not convinced.  She does not like market fluctuations at all.  Explaining why being down for 2018 didn't really matter was difficult.

Yeah thats a tough one.. Heck I had a hard enough time trying to convince myself!.. Fortunately my DW doesn't care about money..:)





Yea fortunately I am in the same boat in that my DW leaves everything up to me and doesnt care about $  as long as I just keep saying were fine shes ok or trusts me. Sometimes I wish she would be a little more involved as shes probably smarter than me but better becareful what i wish for lol!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on March 16, 2019, 09:23:30 AM
Well shit!  More money than I've ever had again!  Damn market fluctuations.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: pecunia on March 16, 2019, 03:30:01 PM
Well shit!  More money than I've ever had again!  Damn market fluctuations.

Yes - It's nice to have that stock market working for you.  Question for you esteemed gentlemen and ladies:

Looking at the Dow Jones curve, it's been around 25,000 for most of 2018 and now 2019.  Could this be considered a new normal if there is such a thing?  The curve has been sort of flat since the end of 2017 except for the brief dip around Christmas.

I'd hate all the 2million dollar racers to slide off the track.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on March 16, 2019, 04:51:11 PM
Well shit!  More money than I've ever had again!  Damn market fluctuations.

Yes - It's nice to have that stock market working for you.  Question for you esteemed gentlemen and ladies:

Looking at the Dow Jones curve, it's been around 25,000 for most of 2018 and now 2019.  Could this be considered a new normal if there is such a thing?  The curve has been sort of flat since the end of 2017 except for the brief dip around Christmas.

I'd hate all the 2million dollar racers to slide off the track.

Well the point is we WILL slide off the track and frequently! Be that with $1M or $5M. When that happens its called a "buying opportunity"..:)

This is the new normal for a while most likely until growth in profits make the current stock prices more in line with history (stocks are arguably a little over valued right now). But when growth makes stocks look fairly valued the stock prices will rise again.

The problem is you don't know if stock prices will continue to rise from here based on emotion/animal spirits alone.. They might and DOW 25,000 might be a distant memory in a few months time.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on March 16, 2019, 10:50:33 PM
/\

What he said.  We coukd park at 25k bouncing up and down for years or we could bound off past 30k
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on March 16, 2019, 11:11:45 PM
Personally, to me, this doesn't feel like the 2000 crash (Greenspan warning about irrational exuberance) or 2008 crash (Bernake reluctantly telling Congress to throw an 800B TARP out and continue quantitative easing after ZIRP failed), this feels like everyone in control is rooting for continued growth forever.  The economy would probably do well with the Fed reducing its balance sheet, raising rates so that bonds made a good alternative to stocks again, and not having such crazy domestic and trade deficits.  If the rest of the world weren't in such turmoil, then the strong dollar would not be there to make pretty much everything US so appetizing.

I have a feeling I'm going to have to work pretty hard for the next million :)  But the second and third were pretty easy.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: soccerluvof4 on March 17, 2019, 05:33:13 AM
Personally, to me, this doesn't feel like the 2000 crash (Greenspan warning about irrational exuberance) or 2008 crash (Bernake reluctantly telling Congress to throw an 800B TARP out and continue quantitative easing after ZIRP failed), this feels like everyone in control is rooting for continued growth forever.  The economy would probably do well with the Fed reducing its balance sheet, raising rates so that bonds made a good alternative to stocks again, and not having such crazy domestic and trade deficits.  If the rest of the world weren't in such turmoil, then the strong dollar would not be there to make pretty much everything US so appetizing.

I have a feeling I'm going to have to work pretty hard for the next million :)  But the second and third were pretty easy.




I tend to agree ^.  The dips have also shown that there are a lot of people willing to get back in or new money people are wanting to get in wanting to start investing. The longer we sit here the more that money is building up.  With being near the higher end of the curve most people seemingly would want to wait or keep buying the dips. I personally believe that's why its been so flat. I do think we could go higher if a deal is done with China and something comes of the next North Korea meeting as the market has been moving on more on what comes out of peoples mouths then only companies performance. Or at least more than normal.  I also would like to see a rate increase to help as well and think it would create another dip for awhile for another buying opportunity. The market just continues to prove that nobody knows jack.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Car Jack on March 18, 2019, 08:45:08 AM
Well, just a note to mark clicking over the $2.4 mark in liquid investments as of today.  2018 was a horrible year for my family and black swan events cost a lot of money.  With all that behind now and actually earning more money than is going out, I put in our Roth contributions for 2018, completed my tax returns (good refund net) and have a far clearer path for the family.  Did the spread sheet update this morning and so long as we don't get a huge market tank, I expect the "4" will stick.

Out of our last year's events, I've decided to postpone retirement.  It's going to take a while for us to really settle down and accept that life is normal again anyways, so I'm not going to upset the wife with a big change.  I'm too old to retire "early" anyways, so there's nothing being really lost there.  I think I've resolved that the new number might be 65 as I can take a small pension at that point and our savings will easily hit 50X spending.  The house has been paid of forever and none of the cars have loans on them. 

Thanks for the MMM forum for having a venue to express the results of our continued frugal ways.  There isn't another place I know of where this is considered "normal".
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on March 18, 2019, 03:26:52 PM
Great job @Car Jack ..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: JoJoP on March 19, 2019, 06:56:58 PM
Hey @Car Jack , it sounds like the worst is behind you and things are starting to return to normal.  Hope all is well from here on out.   There's nothing wrong with retiring well at 65.  (We're not early Retirees either, DH just hit the big 6 5)  You've got a good plan and keeping the stress down at home after a stressful year is important.  You're taking care of the people you love.  KUDOS!  We're with you...
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on March 20, 2019, 12:01:44 AM
We're here CarJack.  Hope it smoothes out a bit.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: soccerluvof4 on March 20, 2019, 05:07:37 AM
Best of 2019 For ya @Car Jack ! Sounds like your in pretty good finacial shape actually great financial shape so hopefully thats not a stress er on ya!

I'm with ya on the taxes thing I got mine done and sent in to my accountant a couples days ago and feels good.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: ysette9 on March 20, 2019, 02:00:44 PM
My husband sent me a text late last night that read: “2,001,175!!!”

We are in the club, folks.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on March 20, 2019, 02:27:15 PM
My husband sent me a text late last night that read: ď2,001,175!!!Ē

We are in the club, folks.

Woohoo...:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on March 20, 2019, 03:08:46 PM
My husband sent me a text late last night that read: ď2,001,175!!!Ē

We are in the club, folks.

Alrighty!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: honeyfill on March 20, 2019, 04:53:38 PM
Still in the Club.  As a matter of fact , we have almost exactly the same net worth we had when we retired last July.  When the market dropped last fall, I started putting out feelers for some consulting work and fell into a job that pays 20% more than I was making before. And I will not have to be a manager. I get to be a regular engineer doing cool stuff.  I guess that makes me a retirement failure but it feels like a win to me!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on March 20, 2019, 05:33:42 PM
Still in the Club.  As a matter of fact , we have almost exactly the same net worth we had when we retired last July.  When the market dropped last fall, I started putting out feelers for some consulting work and fell into a job that pays 20% more than I was making before. And I will not have to be a manager. I get to be a regular engineer doing cool stuff.  I guess that makes me a retirement failure but it feels like a win to me!

Watch out for the IRP.. They are relentless.. Ask me how I know...;)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on March 20, 2019, 11:11:49 PM
Still in the Club.  As a matter of fact , we have almost exactly the same net worth we had when we retired last July.  When the market dropped last fall, I started putting out feelers for some consulting work and fell into a job that pays 20% more than I was making before. And I will not have to be a manager. I get to be a regular engineer doing cool stuff.  I guess that makes me a retirement failure but it feels like a win to me!

Watch out for the IRP.. They are relentless.. Ask me how I know...;)
Well, maybe honeyfill won't turn out to be a repeat offender. There's a much higher level of enforcement for recidivists.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on March 21, 2019, 12:05:29 AM
Still in the Club.  As a matter of fact , we have almost exactly the same net worth we had when we retired last July.  When the market dropped last fall, I started putting out feelers for some consulting work and fell into a job that pays 20% more than I was making before. And I will not have to be a manager. I get to be a regular engineer doing cool stuff.  I guess that makes me a retirement failure but it feels like a win to me!

Watch out for the IRP.. They are relentless.. Ask me how I know...;)
Well, maybe honeyfill won't turn out to be a repeat offender. There's a much higher level of enforcement for recidivists.

Oh goody (says the masochist under his breath)...:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: soccerluvof4 on March 21, 2019, 06:37:29 AM
My husband sent me a text late last night that read: ď2,001,175!!!Ē

We are in the club, folks.

Alrighty!



Congrats! thats awesome!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: PhrugalPhan on March 21, 2019, 12:50:01 PM
Attended a mid-career retirement seminar at work this week.  Figured I should as I am four years away from my pension.  Presenter confirmed what I have been saying for some time - if you have a decent pension you need to save as much as practical in Roth as taxes are only going to get worse once you retire.  I just went into the retirement online system and upped the Roth/Trad ratio again.  I am now putting in 90% of my money as Roth.  Also was told something new - I am supposed to be able to pick which bucket of money to withdraw from - it previously had to be proportional.  If this is true I won't need to setup IRA accounts to pull out money and roll into Roth.  Now I can just do in-plan rollovers to Roth for my conversions, and when I hit RMD time I will have full flexibility to pull out just the right money amounts from each bucket to easily hit my tax targets.  I am psyched.

This retirement thing is no longer some mystical thing out in the fog... its getting real.  And its looking better.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Dicey on March 21, 2019, 01:03:28 PM
My husband sent me a text late last night that read: ď2,001,175!!!Ē

We are in the club, folks.
In my mind, you've been here for weeks, if not months. Glad you finally made the leap. Welcome, MMM Friend!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on March 21, 2019, 01:17:19 PM


@PhrugalPhan I think retirement looks pretty good to anyone with $2M+.. Especially those of us with pensions in addition.

I didn't know you could roll between traditional 401k and Roth 401k either.. Not sure it makes much difference as that is the same as rolling between your Trad 401k and a Roth IRA.. with a couple more steps no?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M
Post by: wannabe-stache on March 21, 2019, 01:48:25 PM
Don't mind me.  Still in my 40's and I'm being all winey pants about 2 million NW.  Facepunch, double facepunch.  It's all good. 

Actually had to meditate about buying a new leaf blower a few days ago.   It was  $150 at Lowes $165 with tax, found it for $125 at Amazon with no tax or shipping.  WTF!  I'm a dang millionaire, hell technically a multimillionaire on the lowest rung.  I'm debating a leaf blower purchase.   You people have ruined my life.

This is exactly what I am dealing with.  We are in Miami and post-Irma (and post-telling my landscaper he wasn't needed anymore), i realized i really need a rake and a leaf blower.  so i went online to find used items.  i didn't find MMM until 4 months ago, otherwise i would have trotted over to home depot and bought brand new stuff without even thinking about it.

with that, i am jumping into this thread.  DW and i are 34 and 37 respectively and due to high incomes and, despite our below average savings rates, we have $1.6M invested and $2.3M with the home equity.  if i had found MMM 3 years ago i have no doubt we would have way more than $1.6M invested...

nice update on this post from around 18 months ago...we are over $2.6M investments and $3.47M with home equity.  surely a crash is coming.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: pecunia on March 21, 2019, 01:59:51 PM

- SNIP -

This retirement thing is no long some mystical thing out in the fog... its getting real.  And its looking better.

Yah - Dow Jones is presently just a smidgeon under 26,000.  It is looking real. 

When I was a younger man in my twenties, I was completing a 60 mile bike ride one Saturday.  I was feeling pretty good about it.

I was on a long flat stretch of road in Minnesota.

There was this dot behind me.

I rode on and the dot became bigger.

The dot passed me in a blur.  It was another cyclist.

I caught up to him at a gas station.  It was a 57 year old retiree.  He had started 200 or so miles back in Fargo that morning.  He told me one of his dreams was to cycle to what he considered all 4 corners of the United States.  And he did.  He was heading back home to St. Paul.

I am approaching that time where I could maybe get into that kind of shape and maybe have a piece of the dream he had.

It is looking better.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: PhrugalPhan on March 21, 2019, 02:01:38 PM
@PhrugalPhan I think retirement looks pretty good to anyone with $2M+.. Especially those of us with pensions in addition.

I didn't know you could roll between traditional 401k and Roth 401k either.. Not sure it makes much difference as that is the same as rolling between your Trad 401k and a Roth IRA.. with a couple more steps no?
I'm in a 457 plan, but you are right, I am just able to avoid some extra steps and having a few less accounts with the ability to do in-plan rollovers.  Also in my case the funds available have low fees so I want to stay with them if I can, plus there is the issue of some states giving more legal protections to these type of retirement vehicles.  But with all of that, yes, I am just thrilled not having to go through the setup process and money transfers each year.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: ysette9 on March 21, 2019, 02:28:57 PM
My husband sent me a text late last night that read: “2,001,175!!!”

We are in the club, folks.
In my mind, you've been here for weeks, if not months. Glad you finally made the leap. Welcome, MMM Friend!
Thanks!

I know there is the never-ending debate on whether to include home equity or not. Our nominal plan is to stay put so I don’t. And in any case we would need to live somewhere even if we did sell and move. However I can see a legit case for including home equity. I do keep 529 money completely out as I don’t really consider it “our” money but more money that we are stewards of on behalf of our littles.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: EscapeVelocity2020 on March 22, 2019, 09:28:29 PM
Well, this week could be bad news.  The Fed went full dove mode and the market couldn't get excited.  That is never a good sign.

But as I was thinking in my last post, if the Fed doesn't raise rates, then people don't pony up to buy bonds with a better yield.  The curve actually inverted this time, since there really wasn't a reason not to raise or favor raising, so we may be in no man's land for a while.  Trump may think he's a Nobel Prize worthy economist, but jamming the accelerator during a time when you should be rebuilding and laying the groundwork to fight a recession is an amateur flub.  Rewarding the rich (via tax cuts and low borrowing rates) for doing nothing doesn't even get us a tech/housing/etc. bubble!  It just makes the US economy weaker at a time when it has nothing but tailwinds.  Honestly, we could be kicking so much a$$ right now if we were enticing the best minds to live here by behaving like a Renaissance Enlightenment society and not the Dark Ages... 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on March 22, 2019, 11:09:48 PM

- SNIP -

This retirement thing is no long some mystical thing out in the fog... its getting real.  And its looking better.

Yah - Dow Jones is presently just a smidgeon under 26,000.  It is looking real. 

When I was a younger man in my twenties, I was completing a 60 mile bike ride one Saturday.  I was feeling pretty good about it.

I was on a long flat stretch of road in Minnesota.

There was this dot behind me.

I rode on and the dot became bigger.

The dot passed me in a blur.  It was another cyclist.

I caught up to him at a gas station.  It was a 57 year old retiree.  He had started 200 or so miles back in Fargo that morning.  He told me one of his dreams was to cycle to what he considered all 4 corners of the United States.  And he did.  He was heading back home to St. Paul.

I am approaching that time where I could maybe get into that kind of shape and maybe have a piece of the dream he had.

It is looking better.

I'm hoping to spend many days in the saddle soon.  The Tour Divide is high on my list.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on March 22, 2019, 11:17:27 PM
Well, this week could be bad news.  The Fed went full dove mode and the market couldn't get excited.  That is never a good sign.

But as I was thinking in my last post, if the Fed doesn't raise rates, then people don't pony up to buy bonds with a better yield.  The curve actually inverted this time, since there really wasn't a reason not to raise or favor raising, so we may be in no man's land for a while.  Trump may think he's a Nobel Prize worthy economist, but jamming the accelerator during a time when you should be rebuilding and laying the groundwork to fight a recession is an amateur flub.  Rewarding the rich (via tax cuts and low borrowing rates) for doing nothing doesn't even get us a tech/housing/etc. bubble!  It just makes the US economy weaker at a time when it has nothing but tailwinds.  Honestly, we could be kicking so much a$$ right now if we were enticing the best minds to live here by behaving like a Renaissance Enlightenment society and not the Dark Ages...

Well said.  That huge drop today could be a sign of more to come.  I could be kicked out of the 2MM club again.  We'll see how it settles.  If not for any other reason, I'm going for 2.5MM just because it aggregates me so much to dip below 2MM constantly.  I'd hate to FIRE and perpetually be bouncing back and forth across the 2MM line. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on March 22, 2019, 11:48:41 PM
Well, this week could be bad news.  The Fed went full dove mode and the market couldn't get excited.  That is never a good sign.

But as I was thinking in my last post, if the Fed doesn't raise rates, then people don't pony up to buy bonds with a better yield.  The curve actually inverted this time, since there really wasn't a reason not to raise or favor raising, so we may be in no man's land for a while.  Trump may think he's a Nobel Prize worthy economist, but jamming the accelerator during a time when you should be rebuilding and laying the groundwork to fight a recession is an amateur flub.  Rewarding the rich (via tax cuts and low borrowing rates) for doing nothing doesn't even get us a tech/housing/etc. bubble!  It just makes the US economy weaker at a time when it has nothing but tailwinds.  Honestly, we could be kicking so much a$$ right now if we were enticing the best minds to live here by behaving like a Renaissance Enlightenment society and not the Dark Ages...

Well said.  That huge drop today could be a sign of more to come.  I could be kicked out of the 2MM club again.  We'll see how it settles.  If not for any other reason, I'm going for 2.5MM just because it aggregates me so much to dip below 2MM constantly.  I'd hate to FIRE and perpetually be bouncing back and forth across the 2MM line.

I know that would be awful!.. wait...:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on March 23, 2019, 04:12:07 AM
Well, this week could be bad news.  The Fed went full dove mode and the market couldn't get excited.  That is never a good sign.

But as I was thinking in my last post, if the Fed doesn't raise rates, then people don't pony up to buy bonds with a better yield.  The curve actually inverted this time, since there really wasn't a reason not to raise or favor raising, so we may be in no man's land for a while.  Trump may think he's a Nobel Prize worthy economist, but jamming the accelerator during a time when you should be rebuilding and laying the groundwork to fight a recession is an amateur flub.  Rewarding the rich (via tax cuts and low borrowing rates) for doing nothing doesn't even get us a tech/housing/etc. bubble!  It just makes the US economy weaker at a time when it has nothing but tailwinds.  Honestly, we could be kicking so much a$$ right now if we were enticing the best minds to live here by behaving like a Renaissance Enlightenment society and not the Dark Ages...

Well said.  That huge drop today could be a sign of more to come.  I could be kicked out of the 2MM club again.  We'll see how it settles.  If not for any other reason, I'm going for 2.5MM just because it aggregates me so much to dip below 2MM constantly.  I'd hate to FIRE and perpetually be bouncing back and forth across the 2MM line.

I know that would be awful!.. wait...:)
Joyously still in.  Just updated only lost 20k.  Not even enough to buy a discount Tesla 3.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: soccerluvof4 on March 23, 2019, 05:35:35 AM
Well, this week could be bad news.  The Fed went full dove mode and the market couldn't get excited.  That is never a good sign.

But as I was thinking in my last post, if the Fed doesn't raise rates, then people don't pony up to buy bonds with a better yield.  The curve actually inverted this time, since there really wasn't a reason not to raise or favor raising, so we may be in no man's land for a while.  Trump may think he's a Nobel Prize worthy economist, but jamming the accelerator during a time when you should be rebuilding and laying the groundwork to fight a recession is an amateur flub.  Rewarding the rich (via tax cuts and low borrowing rates) for doing nothing doesn't even get us a tech/housing/etc. bubble!  It just makes the US economy weaker at a time when it has nothing but tailwinds.  Honestly, we could be kicking so much a$$ right now if we were enticing the best minds to live here by behaving like a Renaissance Enlightenment society and not the Dark Ages...

Well said.  That huge drop today could be a sign of more to come.  I could be kicked out of the 2MM club again.  We'll see how it settles.  If not for any other reason, I'm going for 2.5MM just because it aggregates me so much to dip below 2MM constantly.  I'd hate to FIRE and perpetually be bouncing back and forth across the 2MM line.

I know that would be awful!.. wait...:)
Joyously still in.  Just updated only lost 20k.  Not even enough to buy a discount Tesla 3.


My foot was lifted and ready to tap to a new high for the second time and NO knocked down over 24k.  Peaks and valleys! Market has made no sense in along time anyhow
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on March 23, 2019, 08:09:30 AM
Same here.. I was $13k short of a new all time personal high.. and.. Now I'm not..

Going forward I predict more pain in the short term... But I am wrong at least 50% of the time..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Threshkin on March 23, 2019, 12:08:20 PM
Friday was....painful.  Down $38K.

But I am still up from the last dip around March 10 so all is good.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: pecunia on March 27, 2019, 05:15:33 AM
I may be naive, but I see help wanted signs all over.  I get several unsolicited e-mails every week telling me of "opportunities."  It looks like there is work out there.  With people working, making and spending money, these seem to be good times.  Can I expect a high probability of the market bumping up a bit or at least staying where it is at?  Is a sea change coming with excess credit crashing us down again?
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: soccerluvof4 on March 27, 2019, 05:38:53 AM
I may be naive, but I see help wanted signs all over.  I get several unsolicited e-mails every week telling me of "opportunities."  It looks like there is work out there.  With people working, making and spending money, these seem to be good times.  Can I expect a high probability of the market bumping up a bit or at least staying where it is at?  Is a sea change coming with excess credit crashing us down again?


No one knows. Where I live I don't think there is a place that isn't hiring. Like you i get pounded with emails. There is so much commercial construction in our area I wonder where they are going to find all the workers. But anyone that wants a job can get one near us anyhow. The flipside is Personal credit card debt is much higher than it was before 2008, Fuel is on the rise I think like 50 cents near me in the last month or so and Banks are advertising minimum down payments again for mortgages. My guess if I had to make one is we stay in this range for awhile and up and down more on news.


In other news I got my taxes finally completed and am getting back just under 500$ so not to shabby. My state I owe and my fed I get back more than I owe in state.

@Bateaux  2.5M is a great number I personally like after hearing the Jcollins version of FU money https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eikbQPldhPY

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Car Jack on March 27, 2019, 11:33:22 AM
I may be naive, but I see help wanted signs all over.  I get several unsolicited e-mails every week telling me of "opportunities."  It looks like there is work out there.  With people working, making and spending money, these seem to be good times.  Can I expect a high probability of the market bumping up a bit or at least staying where it is at?  Is a sea change coming with excess credit crashing us down again?

But we're in trade wars with everyone.  Farmers are getting hammered with crop prices half what they were a year ago.  My company manufacturers all over the world and cannot determine what's touched by China and what's not, so we've assumed everything is and increased prices for all of our customers based on the likelihood that China tariffs will hit everything.  This has reduced sales.  US factory people are being cut as a result. 

On the bright side, people who had steady factory jobs at $25 an hour with benefits can now work at Taco Bell at $10 an hour with no benefits.  Making America Great Again.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: pecunia on March 27, 2019, 07:23:11 PM

- SNIP-

But we're in trade wars with everyone.  Farmers are getting hammered with crop prices half what they were a year ago.  My company manufacturers all over the world and cannot determine what's touched by China and what's not, so we've assumed everything is and increased prices for all of our customers based on the likelihood that China tariffs will hit everything.  This has reduced sales.  US factory people are being cut as a result. 

On the bright side, people who had steady factory jobs at $25 an hour with benefits can now work at Taco Bell at $10 an hour with no benefits.  Making America Great Again.

They say that is the difference between America and some of the other countries.  Your management is raising prices.  Other countries have the idea of increasing market share.  There will no longer be American cars sold only SUVs and trucks.  There will still be cars sold.  Someone has that share of the market and it is not American companies.  They went from all to none.  Some of the folks who made the cars will be making tacos.

Still times are good and I should be able to get out soon.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: soccerluvof4 on March 28, 2019, 02:52:09 AM

- SNIP-

But we're in trade wars with everyone.  Farmers are getting hammered with crop prices half what they were a year ago.  My company manufacturers all over the world and cannot determine what's touched by China and what's not, so we've assumed everything is and increased prices for all of our customers based on the likelihood that China tariffs will hit everything.  This has reduced sales.  US factory people are being cut as a result. 

On the bright side, people who had steady factory jobs at $25 an hour with benefits can now work at Taco Bell at $10 an hour with no benefits.  Making America Great Again.

They say that is the difference between America and some of the other countries.  Your management is raising prices.  Other countries have the idea of increasing market share.  There will no longer be American cars sold only SUVs and trucks.  There will still be cars sold.  Someone has that share of the market and it is not American companies.  They went from all to none.  Some of the folks who made the cars will be making tacos.

Still times are good and I should be able to get out soon.


I'm hoping were near an end on this whole China thing. Thats why it seems like the market is trading around the news on getting a deal done. It has been confusing to say the least but anytime we seem to be getting close to nailing things down the Market pops on it. I think its been more just knowing a resolution. Time will tell. Plenty of foreign companies have cut making cars as well. Seems that crossovers is just what people want all over. If fuel prices keep going up that will be the changer again. Thats what really seems to mess up the autos is the nearly 2$ swings in fuel prices. People have short memories and gas goes down bigger autos are sold and then gas goes up companies have to re-tool and boom. Thats why I went to all gas savers a few years back and am staying there. lessen learned.
Well we will see.

Also we do have several manufacturing plants going up by us. One is going to be done in 2020 and is hiring 30k workers and is working with the state colleges to try and get workers. Around here it doesnt take much to get a basic job for around 20$ an hour entry level and vs 10$ at the restaurants. Even the gas stations are paying 12$ or 13$ for third shift. Does feel like a house of cards though.

Staying optimistic. Though I have been preparing for a down turn It would be great to get another 2  years out of this because that would be 2 out of college and done with 2 to go!

Fingers crossed!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: pecunia on March 28, 2019, 04:26:30 PM




-SNIP-

Also we do have several manufacturing plants going up by us. One is going to be done in 2020 and is hiring 30k workers and is working with the state colleges to try and get workers. Around here it doesnt take much to get a basic job for around 20$ an hour entry level and vs 10$ at the restaurants. Even the gas stations are paying 12$ or 13$ for third shift. Does feel like a house of cards though.

Staying optimistic. Though I have been preparing for a down turn It would be great to get another 2  years out of this because that would be 2 out of college and done with 2 to go!

Fingers crossed!

That's great!  Thirty thousand workers in the Arctic Midwest.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Threshkin on March 28, 2019, 05:23:30 PM
Residential and commercial construction is suffering slowdowns nationwide because they cannot hire enough workers.  Many companies are paying for training and sign on bonuses to get the workers they need.  These are not $10/hour jobs.

Manufacturing employment is surging in many areas as well.  These are not $10/hour jobs.

Will there be another recession? Of course.  When?  Who knows.  Tomorrow?  Unlikely.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: soccerluvof4 on March 29, 2019, 03:53:11 AM
Residential and commercial construction is suffering slowdowns nationwide because they cannot hire enough workers.  Many companies are paying for training and sign on bonuses to get the workers they need.  These are not $10/hour jobs.

Manufacturing employment is surging in many areas as well.  These are not $10/hour jobs.

Will there be another recession? Of course.  When?  Who knows.  Tomorrow?  Unlikely.




-SNIP-

Also we do have several manufacturing plants going up by us. One is going to be done in 2020 and is hiring 30k workers and is working with the state colleges to try and get workers. Around here it doesnt take much to get a basic job for around 20$ an hour entry level and vs 10$ at the restaurants. Even the gas stations are paying 12$ or 13$ for third shift. Does feel like a house of cards though.

Staying optimistic. Though I have been preparing for a down turn It would be great to get another 2  years out of this because that would be 2 out of college and done with 2 to go!

Fingers crossed!

That's great!  Thirty thousand workers in the Arctic Midwest.



I live in SE WI and the corridor between WI and Il (Chicago) is basically combining the two cities (Milwaukee and Chicago). Companies are building like Crazy on our side of the border to avoid Illinois taxes and with it is a construction boom. I am about an hour away of that corridor thankfully as we have tons of commercial and residential building going up by us as well. Alot of small to medium sized companies. But along that corridor they have already built a monster Amazon distribution Center. Then they started building another Amazon building about 10 miles further up the freeway. Uline just keeps building one building after another, Foxcon is building a huge plant and so on. so much going on its a mess with the freeway and all.

I have been wondering the last couple years how there going to fill all these jobs and you can see all the minimum wage jobs suffer from it as well. Like i mentioned you cant pass a building thats not hiring. Also makes you wonder if these businesses are just going to keep working to get smarter with technology to avoid hiring people.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Threshkin on March 29, 2019, 04:59:56 PM




-SNIP-

Also we do have several manufacturing plants going up by us. One is going to be done in 2020 and is hiring 30k workers and is working with the state colleges to try and get workers. Around here it doesnt take much to get a basic job for around 20$ an hour entry level and vs 10$ at the restaurants. Even the gas stations are paying 12$ or 13$ for third shift. Does feel like a house of cards though.

Staying optimistic. Though I have been preparing for a down turn It would be great to get another 2  years out of this because that would be 2 out of college and done with 2 to go!

Fingers crossed!

That's great!  Thirty thousand workers in the Arctic Midwest.

.....And this is exactly why we need the electoral college.   
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on April 02, 2019, 09:55:37 AM
As much as I love discussing politics on this forum (hahaha), back to the main theme. I check our net worth monthly, so here's where we stand at the end of March/beginning of April.


We're at $3.6M*. In an unexpected twist, our bay area primary residence is down slightly in value, while our Oregon coast vacation home is up slightly. The to offset each other. We are not quite at $1.5M in 401k values (currently at $1.39M), but I'm hoping to be there in a few months.

(*edited, because I caught an error in my tracker. I was moving money between accounts, and magically double counted it. I wish. This is a more explainable gain of $38k month over month.)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: honeyfill on April 02, 2019, 09:28:41 PM
As much as I love discussing politics on this forum (hahaha), back to the main theme. I check our net worth monthly, so here's where we stand at the end of March/beginning of April.


We're at $3.6M*. In an unexpected twist, our bay area primary residence is down slightly in value, while our Oregon coast vacation home is up slightly. The to offset each other. We are not quite at $1.5M in 401k values (currently at $1.39M), but I'm hoping to be there in a few months.

(*edited, because I caught an error in my tracker. I was moving money between accounts, and magically double counted it. I wish. This is a more explainable gain of $38k month over month.)

Your situation  reminds me of my sister in Palo Alto. She is worth about 3.3M but 2M of that is in her paid off house.  She and her husband live quite comfortably on 4% of the 1.3M + about 60k in SS.
BUT whenever I tell her she could live a lot better by selling her condo and moving to a lcol, she just laughs and says she loves the weather in Palo Alto. 
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: DavidAnnArbor on April 02, 2019, 09:47:19 PM
Once you get comfortable in your home and you've established roots in a community it's hard to pick up and leave it.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: ysette9 on April 02, 2019, 10:57:57 PM
As much as I love discussing politics on this forum (hahaha), back to the main theme. I check our net worth monthly, so here's where we stand at the end of March/beginning of April.


We're at $3.6M*. In an unexpected twist, our bay area primary residence is down slightly in value, while our Oregon coast vacation home is up slightly. The to offset each other. We are not quite at $1.5M in 401k values (currently at $1.39M), but I'm hoping to be there in a few months.

(*edited, because I caught an error in my tracker. I was moving money between accounts, and magically double counted it. I wish. This is a more explainable gain of $38k month over month.)

Your situation  reminds me of my sister in Palo Alto. She is worth about 3.3M but 2M of that is in her paid off house.  She and her husband live quite comfortably on 4% of the 1.3M + about 60k in SS.
BUT whenever I tell her she could live a lot better by selling her condo and moving to a lcol, she just laughs and says she loves the weather in Palo Alto.
In all fairness, Palo Alto is a gorgeous, wonderful town with lovely weather. I live near there and worked in PA for four years or so. Those years allowed me to really appreciate how awesome it is.
That said, I didn’t have kids back then. Many people move there for the schools but I’d be concerned about putting mine in that pressure cooker environment.
For retirement though? I’d stay put in her place as well.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Taran Wanderer on April 03, 2019, 02:53:46 AM
My cousin lives in Palo Alto. We were driving through the neighborhood of beautiful homes back to her house a few years ago, and my 8-year-old daughter said, ďI want to live here!Ē

I replied, ďEveryone wants to live here.Ē

Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: itchyfeet on April 03, 2019, 03:44:22 AM
We own a home in an expensive suburb of Sydney and our FIRE plan requires selling and moving to somewhere cheaper. We are finding the prospect of that a little difficult as we really like being so close to everything in Sydney so can really relate to the Pablo Alto analogy.

But the option of not selling probably comes with 5 more years work (puke), amd as we have lived overseas for nearly 5 years now I am sure our old home wonít be the same if we movedCertainly our circle of friends will be different if we returned as people have moved on with their lives over the past 5 years.

On a positive note, our personal Top is In. Finally.

 Itís been a long time since last September when we previously topped. During that time a declining Sydney property market has been offsetting all of our savings, and we have had to wait for our stocks to reach new highs. It great to be forging forward nice more.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: ysette9 on April 03, 2019, 04:07:19 AM
I’ve seen it happen time and again with people who sell and leave California, only to realize a few years later that they miss certain thing about their former home. The problem is that when you do that you are often locked out of ever coming back due to real estate inflation in HCOL areas with respect to everywhere else. We have thrown around the idea of moving to a cheaper location, but that plan always includes renting our current house out and renting on the other end for a while. I don’t want to make any moves that would be difficult to reverse, just in case.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: soccerluvof4 on April 03, 2019, 05:16:18 AM
Two good things happened to me this week. 1) including our paid for house which I figure in 10% under value estimates we are further past the 3M mark than when we tiptoed past it at the markets peak. 2) Yesterday was my 4 year fire'd anniversary. So so far this shit is working! lol
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: pecunia on April 03, 2019, 11:15:13 AM
Two good things happened to me this week. 1) including our paid for house which I figure in 10% under value estimates we are further past the 3M mark than when we tiptoed past it at the markets peak. 2) Yesterday was my 4 year fire'd anniversary. So so far this shit is working! lol

What would be the minimum someone could retire in the "Arctic Midwest?"  Seems like you may have a lot of margin.  Could you make it on $30,000 per year?  ($30,000 X 25 = $750,000)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on April 03, 2019, 12:11:14 PM
Iíve seen it happen time and again with people who sell and leave California, only to realize a few years later that they miss certain thing about their former home. The problem is that when you do that you are often locked out of ever coming back due to real estate inflation in HCOL areas with respect to everywhere else. We have thrown around the idea of moving to a cheaper location, but that plan always includes renting our current house out and renting on the other end for a while. I donít want to make any moves that would be difficult to reverse, just in case.

Exactly.. My friends in the Philippines admitted to me they have basically locked themselves out of the USA by earning just $20k/year for the last 7 years. Plenty of money to live there, but awfully hard to save enough money to come back here in retirement.

Thankfully its a pretty good place to live.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: JoJoP on April 03, 2019, 04:48:12 PM
Iíve seen it happen time and again with people who sell and leave California, only to realize a few years later that they miss certain thing about their former home. The problem is that when you do that you are often locked out of ever coming back due to real estate inflation in HCOL areas with respect to everywhere else. We have thrown around the idea of moving to a cheaper location, but that plan always includes renting our current house out and renting on the other end for a while. I donít want to make any moves that would be difficult to reverse, just in case.

I like that plan Ysette9.  If you rent your house out, you can always come back. Keep your foot in the door.  We also live in a HCOL area, and I'm from the beach area, so I've seen the one way move to a lower COL area many times over the years. 

Last year DH and I were in a tiny town near Munich, and an American couple about our age pulled in on bicycles with pack gear.  Now, that's not the norm.  We started chatting, with the usual "Where are you from? (oh, I know someone from there...)" and "What are you doing here?".  They were quite interesting.   They were on a 2 week bicycle ride.  They lived in France.  They had sold everything they owned in the Midwest,  to live their dream of retiring in France.  They'd been in France about 2 years, and the panache and excitement had worn off.  The cultural differences were exhausting to them.  They wanted to go home, and there was nothing to go back to. They sold their house and all belongings, thinking that the France dream was their forever choice.   They were very unhappy.   I imagine that by now, they've gone home and figured out something, but we caught them just about the time that the reality was staring them straight on.    I hope they found a way to be happy.   

Sometime I fantasize about buying a vacation home and moving to Europe,  I've even talked to real estate companies in 3 EU countries.   Just to suss it out, mind you.  For a 250K Euro buy in, you can get EU citizenship in Greece.  I could easily get that for one of my rentals and keep everything else I own/other rental income intact.  But then reality sinks in... I ALREADY live in paradise.  I ALREADY have a fantastically amazing life.  I ALREADY travel as much as I want to.  A home like that would complicate my life beyond imagination.   I don't need to be worrying about pipes or roof leaks or burglaries in a home that's half way around the world.  What am I thinking?   It's just such a fun fantasy, that's all...
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on April 03, 2019, 05:35:39 PM
Iíve seen it happen time and again with people who sell and leave California, only to realize a few years later that they miss certain thing about their former home. The problem is that when you do that you are often locked out of ever coming back due to real estate inflation in HCOL areas with respect to everywhere else. We have thrown around the idea of moving to a cheaper location, but that plan always includes renting our current house out and renting on the other end for a while. I donít want to make any moves that would be difficult to reverse, just in case.

I like that plan Ysette9.  If you rent your house out, you can always come back. Keep your foot in the door.  We also live in a HCOL area, and I'm from the beach area, so I've seen the one way move to a lower COL area many times over the years. 

Last year DH and I were in a tiny town near Munich, and an American couple about our age pulled in on bicycles with pack gear.  Now, that's not the norm.  We started chatting, with the usual "Where are you from? (oh, I know someone from there...)" and "What are you doing here?".  They were quite interesting.   They were on a 2 week bicycle ride.  They lived in France.  They had sold everything they owned in the Midwest,  to live their dream of retiring in France.  They'd been in France about 2 years, and the panache and excitement had worn off.  The cultural differences were exhausting to them.  They wanted to go home, and there was nothing to go back to. They sold their house and all belongings, thinking that the France dream was their forever choice.   They were very unhappy.   I imagine that by now, they've gone home and figured out something, but we caught them just about the time that the reality was staring them straight on.    I hope they found a way to be happy.   

Sometime I fantasize about buying a vacation home and moving to Europe,  I've even talked to real estate companies in 3 EU countries.   Just to suss it out, mind you.  For a 250K Euro buy in, you can get EU citizenship in Greece.  I could easily get that for one of my rentals and keep everything else I own/other rental income intact.  But then reality sinks in... I ALREADY live in paradise.  I ALREADY have a fantastically amazing life.  I ALREADY travel as much as I want to.  A home like that would complicate my life beyond imagination.   I don't need to be worrying about pipes or roof leaks or burglaries in a home that's half way around the world.  What am I thinking?   It's just such a fun fantasy, that's all...

Yup I totally agree with you. I only have rental property because they are right outside my front door!

Having a vacation home even say 50 miles away would be a big no-no for me.. I guess you could pay a company to manage it for you but its still a bunch of hassle and risk.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: ysette9 on April 03, 2019, 07:06:59 PM
Having lived in France for a year as an exchange student I can both attest to the really great parts of the country and culture and how tiring it can be over time to be constantly out of your element. It gets harder to adapt the older you get as well. That said, having backup EU citizenship and the ability to pick up and leave to someplace with universal healthcare is not to be taken lightly.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on April 03, 2019, 07:11:26 PM
Having lived in France for a year as an exchange student I can both attest to the really great parts of the country and culture and how tiring it can be over time to be constantly out of your element. It gets harder to adapt the older you get as well. That said, having backup EU citizenship and the ability to pick up and leave to someplace with universal healthcare is not to be taken lightly.

If I could easily exchange my UK citizenship for EU I think I would right now..:)
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Threshkin on April 03, 2019, 07:22:22 PM
Having lived in France for a year as an exchange student I can both attest to the really great parts of the country and culture and how tiring it can be over time to be constantly out of your element. It gets harder to adapt the older you get as well. That said, having backup EU citizenship and the ability to pick up and leave to someplace with universal healthcare is not to be taken lightly.

My DW is an EU citizen (Germany) so we have access to both US and EU health care systems.  That said I have found it very difficult to get information on EU citizen relocation within the EU.  There is tons of info on US citizen moving to the EU but EU moving within EU information is much more sparse.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: ysette9 on April 03, 2019, 07:22:53 PM
Having lived in France for a year as an exchange student I can both attest to the really great parts of the country and culture and how tiring it can be over time to be constantly out of your element. It gets harder to adapt the older you get as well. That said, having backup EU citizenship and the ability to pick up and leave to someplace with universal healthcare is not to be taken lightly.

If I could easily exchange my UK citizenship for EU I think I would right now..:)
I’m not going to knock UK citizenship, especially as I am overwhelmingly grateful that I just got my own! As much as a bummer Brexit is, the NHS is a damn sight better than the US disaster.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on April 03, 2019, 08:20:38 PM
Having lived in France for a year as an exchange student I can both attest to the really great parts of the country and culture and how tiring it can be over time to be constantly out of your element. It gets harder to adapt the older you get as well. That said, having backup EU citizenship and the ability to pick up and leave to someplace with universal healthcare is not to be taken lightly.

If I could easily exchange my UK citizenship for EU I think I would right now..:)
Iím not going to knock UK citizenship, especially as I am overwhelmingly grateful that I just got my own! As much as a bummer Brexit is, the NHS is a damn sight better than the US disaster.

Just about ANY country's HC is lot better than the US system.. As only the wealthy can afford it its becoming like a third world system!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: JoJoP on April 03, 2019, 08:29:56 PM


Just about ANY country's HC is lot better than the US system.. As only the wealthy can afford it its becoming like a third world system!

But wait... we are the wealthy and we can hardly afford it.   People postpone retirement or keep a job solely for health care benefits or to have the money to pay their insurance.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: soccerluvof4 on April 04, 2019, 03:03:52 AM
Two good things happened to me this week. 1) including our paid for house which I figure in 10% under value estimates we are further past the 3M mark than when we tiptoed past it at the markets peak. 2) Yesterday was my 4 year fire'd anniversary. So so far this shit is working! lol

What would be the minimum someone could retire in the "Arctic Midwest?"  Seems like you may have a lot of margin.  Could you make it on $30,000 per year?  ($30,000 X 25 = $750,000)


SE Wisconsin is where I live and there are quite a few people on MMM that live in WI. I am between Milw-Madison so I would say exactly where I live when its just the two of us 45-50k. But there are for sure areas you could do 30-35k.  I think when its all said and done if SS is still around in any form at 60k and SS we would be living a really good life. Most of our money is because of kids.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: soccerluvof4 on April 04, 2019, 03:14:40 AM


Just about ANY country's HC is lot better than the US system.. As only the wealthy can afford it its becoming like a third world system!

But wait... we are the wealthy and we can hardly afford it.   People postpone retirement or keep a job solely for health care benefits or to have the money to pay their insurance.


Having lived in France for a year as an exchange student I can both attest to the really great parts of the country and culture and how tiring it can be over time to be constantly out of your element. It gets harder to adapt the older you get as well. That said, having backup EU citizenship and the ability to pick up and leave to someplace with universal healthcare is not to be taken lightly.

If I could easily exchange my UK citizenship for EU I think I would right now..:)
Iím not going to knock UK citizenship, especially as I am overwhelmingly grateful that I just got my own! As much as a bummer Brexit is, the NHS is a damn sight better than the US disaster.

Just about ANY country's HC is lot better than the US system.. As only the wealthy can afford it its becoming like a third world system!



This is the part I just don't understand about this country. With all the HC systems around the world if you don't want to call it social medicine or whatever call it what you want but we need to get this right. I don't care what side of the aisle your on I feel both sides the people want this fixed. Its effecting everyone. The problem is like everything else in the country nobody wants the other side to get anything done right and to get something approved its done then half- assed. There has to be away to, to afford in a way that your just not paying for it with super high taxes. Even though it would be nice to never worry about it a lot of country s of late Like Finland and others seem to be struggling because of the cost. But geez there are so many models to look at and as the richest country in the world we should be able to get this done. But then you look at how many other programs are screwed up who knows.


Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: ysette9 on April 04, 2019, 04:13:11 AM
This is one of these issues where we can have our cake and eat it too. If you look at what rich countries spend as a % of GDP on healthcare, the US is an outlier in that we spend about twice what other countries to. That is for a broken system that leaves people bankrupt, doesn’t cover everyone, and doesn’t have better health outcomes. So if we could wave a magical wand and have a system like Canada or france or Finland or whatever, we could cover everyone better and save a bunch of money at the same time.

I agree that it is very frustrating that our politicians can’t seem to get this right. I think it isn’t quite correct to claim that both sides are digging in their heels and don’t want to allow the other side a win. Obama and his crowd tried long and hard to get the other side to talk and compromise and they refused. Trump and his crowd tried very hard to not include the other wide in their half-baked attempt at repeal-and-replace. I’d like to think that the Dems would come to the table and negotiate in good faith if a halfway reasonable proposal were put on the table; unfortunately we haven’t been able to test that yet.


***
For some reason the really great wiki article with tables of healthcare expenditures as a % of GDP are not easy to find on my phone right now. Here is a different source.

https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Health/Health-expenditure%2C-total/%25-of-GDP#-amount
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Car Jack on April 04, 2019, 06:55:01 AM
Politicians make talking points about crap.  "Do you want to be a socialist country like Cuba?  Of course not!  They're so horrible and have a dictator and are hated by everything.  Well, guess what?  They have free, state run health care.  Not just health insurance....health care.  Get sick, go see a doctor.  All done.  No EoB in the mail, no copay, no bill because you haven't reached your deductible, no out of network lab work.  Horrible, right?".
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on April 04, 2019, 07:37:26 AM
The shortest distance between two points is a straight line.  Unfortunately with the US health care system you have to zigzag a gauntlet of hands reaching for dollars.   Your doctor and nurse are at the end of the hallway waiting to help you.  But, to get there the hallway is lined with thieves who rob you along the way.  They are called corporations.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Bateaux on April 04, 2019, 07:40:44 AM
Iíve seen it happen time and again with people who sell and leave California, only to realize a few years later that they miss certain thing about their former home. The problem is that when you do that you are often locked out of ever coming back due to real estate inflation in HCOL areas with respect to everywhere else. We have thrown around the idea of moving to a cheaper location, but that plan always includes renting our current house out and renting on the other end for a while. I donít want to make any moves that would be difficult to reverse, just in case.

I like that plan Ysette9.  If you rent your house out, you can always come back. Keep your foot in the door.  We also live in a HCOL area, and I'm from the beach area, so I've seen the one way move to a lower COL area many times over the years. 

Last year DH and I were in a tiny town near Munich, and an American couple about our age pulled in on bicycles with pack gear.  Now, that's not the norm.  We started chatting, with the usual "Where are you from? (oh, I know someone from there...)" and "What are you doing here?".  They were quite interesting.   They were on a 2 week bicycle ride.  They lived in France.  They had sold everything they owned in the Midwest,  to live their dream of retiring in France.  They'd been in France about 2 years, and the panache and excitement had worn off.  The cultural differences were exhausting to them.  They wanted to go home, and there was nothing to go back to. They sold their house and all belongings, thinking that the France dream was their forever choice.   They were very unhappy.   I imagine that by now, they've gone home and figured out something, but we caught them just about the time that the reality was staring them straight on.    I hope they found a way to be happy.   

Sometime I fantasize about buying a vacation home and moving to Europe,  I've even talked to real estate companies in 3 EU countries.   Just to suss it out, mind you.  For a 250K Euro buy in, you can get EU citizenship in Greece.  I could easily get that for one of my rentals and keep everything else I own/other rental income intact.  But then reality sinks in... I ALREADY live in paradise.  I ALREADY have a fantastically amazing life.  I ALREADY travel as much as I want to.  A home like that would complicate my life beyond imagination.   I don't need to be worrying about pipes or roof leaks or burglaries in a home that's half way around the world.  What am I thinking?   It's just such a fun fantasy, that's all...

250K to get Greek citizenship.   Hmmmm.   Weather is always nice there.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: JoJoP on April 04, 2019, 08:01:33 AM
Yup, Greece is sunny all the time and the food is terrific.

https://qz.com/120839/for-just-e250000-you-can-buy-a-home-in-greece-and-become-an-eu-resident/
https://www.hiddengreece.net/
https://www.realtor.com/international/gr/
https://www.thenationalherald.com/165632/greece-sold-foreigners-1684-golden-visas-residency-citizenship/
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: MaybeBabyMustache on April 04, 2019, 08:31:07 AM
As much as I love discussing politics on this forum (hahaha), back to the main theme. I check our net worth monthly, so here's where we stand at the end of March/beginning of April.


We're at $3.6M*. In an unexpected twist, our bay area primary residence is down slightly in value, while our Oregon coast vacation home is up slightly. The to offset each other. We are not quite at $1.5M in 401k values (currently at $1.39M), but I'm hoping to be there in a few months.

(*edited, because I caught an error in my tracker. I was moving money between accounts, and magically double counted it. I wish. This is a more explainable gain of $38k month over month.)

Your situation  reminds me of my sister in Palo Alto. She is worth about 3.3M but 2M of that is in her paid off house.  She and her husband live quite comfortably on 4% of the 1.3M + about 60k in SS.
BUT whenever I tell her she could live a lot better by selling her condo and moving to a lcol, she just laughs and says she loves the weather in Palo Alto.
In all fairness, Palo Alto is a gorgeous, wonderful town with lovely weather. I live near there and worked in PA for four years or so. Those years allowed me to really appreciate how awesome it is.
That said, I didnít have kids back then. Many people move there for the schools but Iíd be concerned about putting mine in that pressure cooker environment.
For retirement though? Iíd stay put in her place as well.

Confirming that Palo Alto is great, and I would avoid personally sending my kid to school there due to pressure. Where we are at is bad enough, but a definite step down from PA. And, while the weather is great (not this year, for whatever reason), we are staying put until the kids are out of school, if at all possible. If a major situation cropped up that required us to move, we would. We've moved once with kids, and it was hard on them. I'm not saying they couldn't recover or move on, because kids are pretty resilient. But, I have one kid who is a bit of a loner & finally found a bit of a circle. If it can be avoided, we will stay in place for six more years.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on April 04, 2019, 10:59:16 AM
This is one of these issues where we can have our cake and eat it too. If you look at what rich countries spend as a % of GDP on healthcare, the US is an outlier in that we spend about twice what other countries to. That is for a broken system that leaves people bankrupt, doesnít cover everyone, and doesnít have better health outcomes. So if we could wave a magical wand and have a system like Canada or france or Finland or whatever, we could cover everyone better and save a bunch of money at the same time.

I agree that it is very frustrating that our politicians canít seem to get this right. I think it isnít quite correct to claim that both sides are digging in their heels and donít want to allow the other side a win. Obama and his crowd tried long and hard to get the other side to talk and compromise and they refused. Trump and his crowd tried very hard to not include the other wide in their half-baked attempt at repeal-and-replace. Iíd like to think that the Dems would come to the table and negotiate in good faith if a halfway reasonable proposal were put on the table; unfortunately we havenít been able to test that yet.


***
For some reason the really great wiki article with tables of healthcare expenditures as a % of GDP are not easy to find on my phone right now. Here is a different source.

https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Health/Health-expenditure%2C-total/%25-of-GDP#-amount

I think your argument ignores the real reason for high HC costs.. The HC sector is 12% of the entire stock market. The Stock Market grows on average 10% per year so your portfolio is growing at 1.2% per year due to the HC sector.

If you have a portfolio of $10M in stocks that means you will make $120,000 per year due to Healthcare.

in other words if you're really rich its in your best interests for HC to be as expensive as possible.

Who makes donations to politicians?.. Really rich people.. Follow the money.

Just cus I'm paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get me!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: pecunia on April 04, 2019, 11:20:55 AM
- SNIP -

I think your argument ignores the real reason for high HC costs.. The HC sector is 12% of the entire stock market. The Stock Market grows on average 10% per year so your portfolio is growing at 1.2% per year due to the HC sector.

If you have a portfolio of $10M in stocks that means you will make $120,000 per year due to Healthcare.

in other words if you're really rich its in your best interests for HC to be as expensive as possible.

Who makes donations to politicians?.. Really rich people.. Follow the money.

Just cus I'm paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get me!

Think a little bit.  That health care is like a parasite on the American economy.  Much of it is not producing additional goods and services.  It is sucking away resources that are produced by others.  Now, if that was changed so that this burden was reduced, all those resources would be freed up.  Where would that money go?  I'll bet some of it would be spent on "real" goods and services.  I'll bet the stock market would benefit.  That money would be available to invest in new needed infrastructure, in factories, in aid to education, etc.  Reducing that waste would probably be good for your index funds and not the other way around.

The title of this post could be changed to $4m to $8M.........and beyond!
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: Exflyboy on April 04, 2019, 12:02:09 PM
- SNIP -

I think your argument ignores the real reason for high HC costs.. The HC sector is 12% of the entire stock market. The Stock Market grows on average 10% per year so your portfolio is growing at 1.2% per year due to the HC sector.

If you have a portfolio of $10M in stocks that means you will make $120,000 per year due to Healthcare.

in other words if you're really rich its in your best interests for HC to be as expensive as possible.

Who makes donations to politicians?.. Really rich people.. Follow the money.

Just cus I'm paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get me!

Think a little bit.  That health care is like a parasite on the American economy.  Much of it is not producing additional goods and services.  It is sucking away resources that are produced by others.  Now, if that was changed so that this burden was reduced, all those resources would be freed up.  Where would that money go?  I'll bet some of it would be spent on "real" goods and services.  I'll bet the stock market would benefit.  That money would be available to invest in new needed infrastructure, in factories, in aid to education, etc.  Reducing that waste would probably be good for your index funds and not the other way around.

The title of this post could be changed to $4m to $8M.........and beyond!

Probably true except for one thing.. The powerful healthcare lobby.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: PathtoFIRE on April 04, 2019, 12:05:17 PM
I may be a little biased, but I would say that in general directing productive capacity to health and healthcare is a good thing, and I think you could make an argument that the more developed a country becomes, the more it spends on healthcare, proportionally, and the less it spends on other things like food production, etc. I could envision a utopian future where at least human efforts become more and more restricted to direct services, like teaching and healthcare. With that said, I totally agree that in the US at least, there is probably too much spending on non-direct patient care, so I'm not actually disagreeing that there's a lot of fat/waste that could be cut, just that "overall" spending and comparison to other countries may not mean all that much.
Title: Re: Race from $2M to $3M.....and beyond!
Post by: pecunia on April 04, 2019, 03:16:56 PM
I may be a little biased, but I would say that in general directing productive capacity to health and healthcare is a good thing, and I think you could make an argument that the more developed a country becomes, the more it spends on healthcare, proportionally, and the less it spends on other things like food production, etc. I could envision a utopian future where at least human efforts become more and more restricted to direct services, like teaching and healthcare. With that said, I totally agree that in the US at least, there is probably too much spending on non-direct patient care, so I'm not actually disagreeing that there's a lot of fat/waste that could be cut, just that "overall" spending and comparison to other countries may not mean all that much.

Why doesn't it mean that much?  Some countries have what appears to be a similar standard of living and lower health care cost.

Clipped from the bowels of Google:

The data are presented by type of service, sources of funding, and type of sponsor. U.S. health care spending grew 3.9 percent in 2017, reaching $3.5 trillion or $10,739 per person. As a share of the nation's Gross Domestic Product, health spending accounted for 17.9 percent.

Break out the old charts and graphs - worth a look:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita)

We spend lots more per person than other countries.  YOU spend more than you would in one of these other countries.  YOU could reach your financial goals more quickly if you had lower health care costs.  Wouldn't you like to be putting half of your health care premium in the stock market rather than seeing it go bye bye?

Here