Author Topic: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!  (Read 975541 times)

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6000 on: March 06, 2022, 09:18:34 PM »
Looks like oil is marching towards $150 a barell and beyond.  This economy will slip on oil very soon.  I hate that people are dieing defending their land from a madman.  For us thus far our only suffering is inflation.  Personally I'm glad that the inflation and coming recession are here now and not later.  Why?   For my own selfish reasons I guess.  I'm still working.  Planning to TEST-FIRE in 14 months.  I'm taking a month and a half off in May 2023 to hike as much of the Appalachian Trail as my body allows.  My earliest official quit my job date is August 1st 2023.  I think I'm going to work the month of July in 2023 and allow my coworkers to take their summer vacations.  August is a wait and see.  I may work it and I may go to Maine to restart my hike.  If the economy still looks bleak in August, I'll continue working and play it out month to month.  I can retire in January or February in 2024 and complete the trail then.  We have plenty of vacations scheduled to appease ourselves till then.  Work is getting easier every day.  The pandemic improved the workplace in ways that would have taken decades before.  I'm not going to panic sell our stock portions of the portfolio.  I have not the talent to try and time the market rise and fall.  For now it's just more DCA as always.  I'm trying to get my mind right for the 20, 30 or more percent market declines that may be coming. It always comes back.  The first time the American economy fails to return, I'd suggest training with and possessing weapons.  Because if that happens, what you see in Ukraine will be happening here.   I'm confident it will all work out.  Especially for those of us lucky and talented enough to have earned our way into this thread. 
« Last Edit: March 06, 2022, 09:20:54 PM by Bateaux »

pecunia

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6001 on: March 07, 2022, 08:45:06 AM »
Looks like oil is marching towards $150 a barell and beyond.  This economy will slip on oil very soon.  I hate that people are dieing defending their land from a madman.  For us thus far our only suffering is inflation.  Personally I'm glad that the inflation and coming recession are here now and not later.  Why?   For my own selfish reasons I guess.  I'm still working.  Planning to TEST-FIRE in 14 months.  I'm taking a month and a half off in May 2023 to hike as much of the Appalachian Trail as my body allows.  My earliest official quit my job date is August 1st 2023.  I think I'm going to work the month of July in 2023 and allow my coworkers to take their summer vacations.  August is a wait and see.  I may work it and I may go to Maine to restart my hike.  If the economy still looks bleak in August, I'll continue working and play it out month to month.  I can retire in January or February in 2024 and complete the trail then.  We have plenty of vacations scheduled to appease ourselves till then.  Work is getting easier every day.  The pandemic improved the workplace in ways that would have taken decades before.  I'm not going to panic sell our stock portions of the portfolio.  I have not the talent to try and time the market rise and fall.  For now it's just more DCA as always.  I'm trying to get my mind right for the 20, 30 or more percent market declines that may be coming. It always comes back.  The first time the American economy fails to return, I'd suggest training with and possessing weapons.  Because if that happens, what you see in Ukraine will be happening here.   I'm confident it will all work out.  Especially for those of us lucky and talented enough to have earned our way into this thread.

Maybe, you can write a book like Bill Bryson. (A Walk In The Woods)  Do you have an addict to travel with like he did?  It would be sort of cool if you could take a laptop and do the travel log thing.  I'll bet people would enjoy it if you shared something like that.  You could even sell it and pay for the trip.

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6002 on: March 07, 2022, 11:02:00 AM »
Looks like oil is marching towards $150 a barell and beyond.  This economy will slip on oil very soon.  I hate that people are dieing defending their land from a madman.  For us thus far our only suffering is inflation.  Personally I'm glad that the inflation and coming recession are here now and not later.  Why?   For my own selfish reasons I guess.  I'm still working.  Planning to TEST-FIRE in 14 months.  I'm taking a month and a half off in May 2023 to hike as much of the Appalachian Trail as my body allows.  My earliest official quit my job date is August 1st 2023.  I think I'm going to work the month of July in 2023 and allow my coworkers to take their summer vacations.  August is a wait and see.  I may work it and I may go to Maine to restart my hike.  If the economy still looks bleak in August, I'll continue working and play it out month to month.  I can retire in January or February in 2024 and complete the trail then.  We have plenty of vacations scheduled to appease ourselves till then.  Work is getting easier every day.  The pandemic improved the workplace in ways that would have taken decades before.  I'm not going to panic sell our stock portions of the portfolio.  I have not the talent to try and time the market rise and fall.  For now it's just more DCA as always.  I'm trying to get my mind right for the 20, 30 or more percent market declines that may be coming. It always comes back.  The first time the American economy fails to return, I'd suggest training with and possessing weapons.  Because if that happens, what you see in Ukraine will be happening here.   I'm confident it will all work out.  Especially for those of us lucky and talented enough to have earned our way into this thread.

Maybe, you can write a book like Bill Bryson. (A Walk In The Woods)  Do you have an addict to travel with like he did?  It would be sort of cool if you could take a laptop and do the travel log thing.  I'll bet people would enjoy it if you shared something like that.  You could even sell it and pay for the trip.

People do make documentary films and blogs of their journey.  I'll probably do some social media mostly as my own journal.  It won't be a continuous thru hike for me more of a section hike cumulation towards completion.  I don't think my homelife obligations would allow for a dedicated six month journey right now.  Hopefully if sucessful on the AT, there could be attempts of the PCT and CDT.  Both are longer and more rugged trails with much higher elevation.

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6003 on: March 11, 2022, 08:17:04 AM »
You're enough amount.  The absence of panic posts on this thread proves that most all of you have your enough amount.  Bob Brinker of the famous, "Money Talk Program" called it the land of critical mass.  What a place to be for peace of mind.   Recently our accounts dipped 300K or nearly 10%.  Even if we dive again and see a 20% or 30% drop we are ok.  We'd still have over 2M with a 30% drop.  Since were still working it really doesn't matter if it does.  At those levels I'd be tempted to throw some of the hundreds of thousands of dollars in reserve into the market.  It took this period of regression for me to truly realize our position.   
I dipped down into the world this week.  Our son totaled his car on Valentine's day.   He's physically ok, but was shook up emotionally for a while.  Now he's back at work and we're trying to get him back driving.  So we went used car shopping.  In prices he could afford, we were visiting car lots in the not so nice parts of the city.  I've never seen so much overpriced junk!  Even $10,000 doesn't get you a nice car right now.  There are many desperate people out there car shopping right now.  They don't even have $2,000 to spare.  Now go back to the above paragraph.  Our NW is 3M.  What the actual F am I doing walking those used car lots?  It's tough love.  My wife and I because of decades of hard work, can enjoy whatever our 830 credit or bank account can buy.  We bought him a car and it's gone now.  He has to work his way back.  It's hard not to helecopter parent when you are flying a damned Chinook!  It can be hard getting young adults to accept independence.  Having the wherewithal to make their little financial problems disappear is both a blessing and a curse.
Wonderful, awesome, good friends.  They are the true treasure.
A friend at work sold him a 2007 Toyota Camry in good shape for half the price of the junk on the car lots.  I hopefully never have to step foot on a used car lot ever again.
Hope y'all enjoyed me sharing a few thoughts.   You are all wonderful, awesome good friends.  You didn't get to your positions in life by accident.   You made the right choices along the way.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2022, 08:39:24 AM by Bateaux »

SwordGuy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6004 on: March 11, 2022, 08:41:37 AM »
You're enough amount.  The absence of panic posts on this thread proves that most all of you have your enough amount.  Bob Brinkier of the famous, "Money Talk Program" called it the land of critical mass.  What a place to be for peace of mind.   Recently our accounts dipped 300K or nearly 10%.  Even if we dive again and see a 20% or 30% drop we are ok.  We'd still have over 2M with a 30% drop.  Since were still working it really doesn't matter if it does.  At those levels I'd be tempted to throw some of the hundreds of thousands of dollars in reserve into the market.  It took this period of regression for me to truly realize our position.   
I dipped down into the world this week.  Our son totaled his car on Valentine's day.   He's physically ok, but was shook up emotionally for a while.  Now he's back at work and we're trying to get him back driving.  So we went used car shopping.  In prices he could afford, we were visiting car lots in the not so nice parts of the city.  I've never seen so much overpriced junk!  Even $10,000 doesn't get you a nice car right now.  There are many desperate people out there car shopping right now.  They don't even have $2,000 to spare.  Now go back to the above paragraph.  Our NW is 3M.  What the actual F am I doing walking those used car lots?  It's tough love.  My wife and I because of decades of hard work, can enjoy whatever our 830 credit or bank account can buy.  We bought him a car and it's gone now.  He has to work his way back.  It's hard not to helecopter parent when you are flying a damned Chinook!  It can be hard getting young adults to accept independence.  Having the wherewithal to make their little financial problems disappear is both a blessing and a curse.
Wonderful, awesome, good friends.  They are the true treasure.
A friend at work sold him a 2007 Toyota Camry in good shape for half the price of the junk on the car lots.  I hopefully never have to step foot on a used car lot ever again.
Hope y'all enjoyed me sharing a few thoughts.   You are all wonderful, awesome good friends.
Thanks.  Some good parenting there!

Quote
  You didn't get to your positions in life by accident.   You made the right choices along the way.

You could say we got here by not-accident.

We're, collectively, the LUCKY group of people who made the right choices along the way.   We were lucky because we didn't have a crippling accident early in life, or a debilitating disease, which in the US would have negated most of our good choices.   

I say this because I remember sitting in a surgeon's waiting room to see how my wife's operation went -- an operation she would not have had just a few years earlier because we were poor and without health insurance.

It was pure luck my wife is still alive and well.   All our good choices and hard work would have been for nothing had she needed that operation just a few years earlier.

I'm one tooth short because I had a one go bad when we were poor.   A crown was an unimaginably large expense so it got pulled instead.   I'm lucky my only untreated medical condition was that small.   Had I gotten the cancer on my tongue then instead of decades later I, too would be dead.

That's one reason why I completely support a national health system in some form so that all the people in our country get the health care they need.   The other reason, of course, is because it's the right thing to do.


Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6005 on: March 11, 2022, 08:56:53 AM »
You're enough amount.  The absence of panic posts on this thread proves that most all of you have your enough amount.  Bob Brinkier of the famous, "Money Talk Program" called it the land of critical mass.  What a place to be for peace of mind.   Recently our accounts dipped 300K or nearly 10%.  Even if we dive again and see a 20% or 30% drop we are ok.  We'd still have over 2M with a 30% drop.  Since were still working it really doesn't matter if it does.  At those levels I'd be tempted to throw some of the hundreds of thousands of dollars in reserve into the market.  It took this period of regression for me to truly realize our position.   
I dipped down into the world this week.  Our son totaled his car on Valentine's day.   He's physically ok, but was shook up emotionally for a while.  Now he's back at work and we're trying to get him back driving.  So we went used car shopping.  In prices he could afford, we were visiting car lots in the not so nice parts of the city.  I've never seen so much overpriced junk!  Even $10,000 doesn't get you a nice car right now.  There are many desperate people out there car shopping right now.  They don't even have $2,000 to spare.  Now go back to the above paragraph.  Our NW is 3M.  What the actual F am I doing walking those used car lots?  It's tough love.  My wife and I because of decades of hard work, can enjoy whatever our 830 credit or bank account can buy.  We bought him a car and it's gone now.  He has to work his way back.  It's hard not to helecopter parent when you are flying a damned Chinook!  It can be hard getting young adults to accept independence.  Having the wherewithal to make their little financial problems disappear is both a blessing and a curse.
Wonderful, awesome, good friends.  They are the true treasure.
A friend at work sold him a 2007 Toyota Camry in good shape for half the price of the junk on the car lots.  I hopefully never have to step foot on a used car lot ever again.
Hope y'all enjoyed me sharing a few thoughts.   You are all wonderful, awesome good friends.
Thanks.  Some good parenting there!

Quote
  You didn't get to your positions in life by accident.   You made the right choices along the way.

You could say we got here by not-accident.

We're, collectively, the LUCKY group of people who made the right choices along the way.   We were lucky because we didn't have a crippling accident early in life, or a debilitating disease, which in the US would have negated most of our good choices.   

I say this because I remember sitting in a surgeon's waiting room to see how my wife's operation went -- an operation she would not have had just a few years earlier because we were poor and without health insurance.

It was pure luck my wife is still alive and well.   All our good choices and hard work would have been for nothing had she needed that operation just a few years earlier.

I'm one tooth short because I had a one go bad when we were poor.   A crown was an unimaginably large expense so it got pulled instead.   I'm lucky my only untreated medical condition was that small.   Had I gotten the cancer on my tongue then instead of decades later I, too would be dead.

That's one reason why I completely support a national health system in some form so that all the people in our country get the health care they need.   The other reason, of course, is because it's the right thing to do.

Good words SwordGuy.  The young man I'm speaking of fought cancer at 14.  Only being lucky enough to get treatment at the best children's cancer hospital in the world saved him.  It's hard to try and not give the world to a kid who's been through that.

Dicey

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6006 on: March 11, 2022, 10:23:01 AM »
Whoa boy, this is timely! DH's son still lives with us and he is pathologically shy. Had he been tested as a kid, he would most likely given an Aspberger's diagnosis at the very least.  Yes, I'm aware it's no longer recognized, but it was when he was a kid. He is almost 30 and hasn't the least desire to fly the coop. He works full time, but his position isn't permanent. We live in a stupid-high COLA. We're shopping for a condo for him, because that's the only way to get him out.

A one bedroom condo in an older, but decent complex is a "steal" if you can find one for $425k-ish. Sadly, it's about the same price as renting. We are torn as to the right move. It's easy to have him at home, but that's not what's best for him, in our opinion. He is pretty independent, except he's under our roof. He does his own laundry, car maintenance, pet care, and keeps all of our things that plug in humming along. He inherited his mom's car when she died, so I'm sure he will keep it running as long as he can. It's a 2004 Toyota, so it still has plenty of life in it. He has few bills, but he pays everything but car insurance and cell, because at the moment, we're mustachians and they're way cheaper that way. He has no debt. He also has no friends besides his work family. Happily, they love him. He is smart, conscientious and reliable.

We can afford it, and we will have to be the bank, because cash is king in this market. We plan to buy with cash, then get a mortgage before DH retires.

Did I say we can afford it? We're already "beyond" and we will be receiving a large inheritance from DH's mother's estate soon. It's money we will never need, so the kids will get it eventually anyway.

Since the topic came up here, I decided to ask all of you for your thoughts. We are not fans of Economic Outpatienting, but I have no experience with kids, particularly one so painfully shy. Related facts: DH is a widower. He has a daughter, and we plan to give an equivalent amount* to her.

*Our plan is to gift each of them $100k of their grandmother's money, so Bonus Kid will still be on the hook for $325k-ish, but we will be the bank.

Sorry if this is scattered, but we have an appointment to see a new listing in a few minutes. I'm happy to clarify, discuss, etc. later. And I'm old school and won't blubber like a baby if facepunches are in order. Your thoughts are appreciated.

I should add that DH's mom and her pal, AL Z. Heimer lived with us for six or seven years and Bonus Kid was a a contributing member of her care team. He was good with her and that gave us enough freedom to stay sane.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2022, 05:10:51 PM by Dicey »

couponvan

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6007 on: March 11, 2022, 10:33:01 AM »
My grandparents left me $ instead of just my parents, so I think giving your son down payment money and acting as the bank is reasonable if you are giving an equivalent benefit to the daughter. Hear me out. My hubs is still butter his sister got more college $ and support money from his parents. Itís been 25 years since he was in college. IDK. Kids do compare. The Bay Area is super expensive to be a young buyer right now. Hence why we are considering a multi-generational build.

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6008 on: March 11, 2022, 11:05:15 AM »
Wow Dicey.  I feel such a kinship with you guys.  It makes me smile that the kind young man helped take care of grandmother.  I think someone willing to invest that love and compassion is worthy of the risk.  Unless there is a chance of the real estate market falling, it's not a bad move if he can afford it.  The 100K inherited down payment definitely will help smooth the ride.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6009 on: March 11, 2022, 11:32:24 AM »
@Dicey  I think the blanket 'no outpatient support for kids' is a bit overrated.  In your case, it's a situation that makes sense.  At 30 years old and assisting with a real estate purchase, it's not like you're establishing a trend of handing out support to a formative teenager that will come to expect bail outs.  Also, as you say, the money will eventually go to these children equally, so why not hopefully improve their quality of life in ways that you are able to, while simultaneously improving yours.

I might be biased because I'm not opposed to helping my children out either by paying their way through college so that they can graduate with no formal debt (although I might do what my parents did and charge them rent or some repayment early in their career, before marriage and saving for a home, etc.).  My son is looking at trade schools, so there might be extra money for him at some point depending on what his younger sister does... 

It's a complicated topic, but too many times I see FIRE folks proudly proclaim that their children will pay for college and everything just like they had to.  Especially in these times of high inflation and student debt, that might come back to bite them.

arcturus

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6010 on: March 11, 2022, 04:10:02 PM »
@Dicey good for you and sounds like it might be the right game plan for all involved!  My hat is off to those of you with adult children in the house -- that can be stressful over long periods.  The only thing you might consider is whether you should document the $325k that you will be the bank for so that you don't get someone (IRS or otherwise) inquiring as to whether the payments coming in from your son should be treated as income.  Maybe just look into whether you need to paper over that a bit for record-keeping purposes.  Not an expert, but I thought I read something once.....

Agree with the comments that cash is king right now and unfortunately, my investment approach has been to try not to hold cash!  Wrong move!  So I'm taking each market move down directly on the chin!  I think inflation may be here to stay for the remainder of the year, so maybe buying a condo is not such a bad move.  As for me, I just feel that there's no shelter right now.  Have some annual cash incentives coming in over the next 3-4 months, so maybe that gives me some cash to invest (or not).

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6011 on: March 11, 2022, 06:05:03 PM »
I am one for giving with a warm hand rather than a cold one...


I read somewhere that children really appreciate a helping hand between the ages of 25 to 35 ...when their needs are at the max..

I have seen for myself a multi millionaire scrooge (he is nearly 80) who is withholding ALL his wealth from his only son because " you know..., once you have money, they will always visit!"

OMG!

Fru-Gal

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6012 on: March 11, 2022, 08:23:13 PM »
This is an interesting situation and one that is relevant to me since in our family inter-generational households (lifelong) are the norm. Iím curious ó does your stepson want to move? Also in our social circles this is increasingly common problem/situation right now,  both the living with parents as young adults and the reduced social contact. Itís important to remember that in addition to the housing costs and the  Internet/smartphones replacing all serendipitous interactions, we have just gone through two years of pandemic. The really hard part is when adult children donít contribute, but at least it seems like thatís not the issue here. Also Iím not trying to criticize but rather just explore possibilities, since this is some thing that affects our family as well.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2022, 08:25:29 PM by Fru-Gal »

Dicey

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6013 on: March 12, 2022, 07:16:46 PM »
This is an interesting situation and one that is relevant to me since in our family inter-generational households (lifelong) are the norm. Iím curious ó does your stepson want to move? Also in our social circles this is increasingly common problem/situation right now,  both the living with parents as young adults and the reduced social contact. Itís important to remember that in addition to the housing costs and the  Internet/smartphones replacing all serendipitous interactions, we have just gone through two years of pandemic. The really hard part is when adult children donít contribute, but at least it seems like thatís not the issue here. Also Iím not trying to criticize but rather just explore possibilities, since this is some thing that affects our family as well.
Wow, I didn't expect so much compassionate insight. I was totally expecting a flurry of facepunches You guys are the best!

BK has absolutely no interest in anything that's not already familiar. I simply cannot fathom being like this, but I believe it's mostly not a choice, it's just the way he's wired. DH is the chillest dude on the planet and just says, "He'll figure it out." Um, no. No he won't. He's happy with the status quo.

DH and I want to travel and we want to downsize and we want to be snowbirds and we want to do a lot of things. DH retires next month. His last day of work is actually Bonus Kid's 30th birthday. We want him to learn how to live independently. He's perfectly capable, but he's going to need a hard shove out of the nest. His job is not permanent because people tend not to leave, therefore no permanent slots have opened up. He's in line for the next one because they absolutely love him (He's so smart and so afraid of making mistakes that he never sets a foot wrong), but there are simply no permanent slots available. He does have healthcare because of an ACA rule that says after you've worked XXX number of hours, they have to put you on the plan even if you're not permanent, so that's good. The point is that nobody will give him a mortgage without a permanent j-o-b.

Update, kinda: We like the place we looked at yesterday. It would be a good fit for him. After we looked at it, he came home, got on his e-bike and clocked the time to work. He says 8-12 minutes, depending on traffic. I think that means he really likes it. The listing agent is someone we know, so fingers crossed that the other offerss don't come in outrageously high.

The place is incredibly outdated. It needs a full gut kitchen reno, plus paint, flooring and whatever. We figure we will do the interior work as a gift. We did the same for his sister as a thanks-for-eloping gift. We doubt he'll ever get married, so this will help keep things even-ish.

Oh and we're thinking we will all three be on the title. This is primarily because it's an HOA and we want to have a seat at the table. DH knows how things work, and wants to be sure they keep the place up as it transitions from rental units to condos. BK will never, ever speak up at a board meeting. I'm not sure what the tax implications would be, but our tax appointment is coming up, so we'll talk to our CPA soon.

Any additional thoughts are welcome.

Oh, in a fortuitous stroke, one of our tenants will be moving soon. She will not be taking her furniture or the majority of the furnishings with her. I told her we'd be happy to clear out anything she chooses not to take. Some of it might work for BK's first place. She's been a great tenant and we're sorry to see her go, but rents have skyrocketed, so the boost in rent will help cover part of this new place and free stuff is always appreciated for a first place, right?

Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6014 on: March 12, 2022, 08:23:06 PM »
Speaking of rents, we are seeing a similar rise up here in Oregon.

For the last 5 years I've been charging $1100/m for my 2 bed trailer and similar properties are now going for $1400. As much as I love my current tenants there comes a time where I just have to put up the rate in fairness to me and other renters. I mean this is a business after all and my RE taxes and insurance have been creeping up 10% a year.

Of course I tell this to the Wife of renters and she has a bit of a meltdown about how hard things are and BTW you ARE going to replace all our carpets and the split linoleum on the kitchen right?.. Umm no!.. The reason it will still be $200/m under market is partly because I suspect the building will be in the landfill in the next 3 to 5 years and you (so far) have been great renters. But I'm not going to replace stuff that a strip of gorilla tape and a throw rug will do almost as well.

I suspect she was giving me a bit of a sob story.. I gave the proposal to her & Hubby in writing and he replies with.. "sure no problem".

Honestly I can't wait to be out of the slumlord business but its just easier to keep collecting rent than it is to go through the hassle of selling or disposing of the building, especially while working full time.

Money Badger

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6015 on: March 12, 2022, 09:07:15 PM »
After 8 years on MMM, glad to announce we've made it to this thread crossing $2M in equity!  THis is inclusive of paid off home with value estimated quite conservatively/low net of usual transaction costs so still about $400K to go to FIRE comfortably.    There was a windfall last year that definitely helped things accelerate dramatically.  The problem now is deciding when to detach from corporate life which seems almost normal... Our camping buddies breadwinner is a few years older and just FIREd so they are now traveling in their RV all over...   I also love to camp, but know I'll need more purpose than just driving around to parks...  So started getting involved in groups / sidelines that speak to me so there's a new mission to look forward to when I pull the trigger to FIRE.   After so many twists and turns along the way, grace alone got us here!

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6016 on: March 13, 2022, 07:22:24 AM »
After 8 years on MMM, glad to announce we've made it to this thread crossing $2M in equity!  THis is inclusive of paid off home with value estimated quite conservatively/low net of usual transaction costs so still about $400K to go to FIRE comfortably.    There was a windfall last year that definitely helped things accelerate dramatically.  The problem now is deciding when to detach from corporate life which seems almost normal... Our camping buddies breadwinner is a few years older and just FIREd so they are now traveling in their RV all over...   I also love to camp, but know I'll need more purpose than just driving around to parks...  So started getting involved in groups / sidelines that speak to me so there's a new mission to look forward to when I pull the trigger to FIRE.   After so many twists and turns along the way, grace alone got us here!

Congrats!   

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6017 on: March 13, 2022, 07:44:24 AM »
After 8 years on MMM, glad to announce we've made it to this thread crossing $2M in equity!  THis is inclusive of paid off home with value estimated quite conservatively/low net of usual transaction costs so still about $400K to go to FIRE comfortably.    There was a windfall last year that definitely helped things accelerate dramatically.  The problem now is deciding when to detach from corporate life which seems almost normal... Our camping buddies breadwinner is a few years older and just FIREd so they are now traveling in their RV all over...   I also love to camp, but know I'll need more purpose than just driving around to parks...  So started getting involved in groups / sidelines that speak to me so there's a new mission to look forward to when I pull the trigger to FIRE.   After so many twists and turns along the way, grace alone got us here!

Congrats - it will be great to be in control of what you do with your time once you retire.

Money Badger

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6018 on: March 13, 2022, 09:17:24 AM »
Thanks for the kind words y'all!   Oddly, COVID and work from home let us explore life as we wanted FIRE to be...  Saving 10 hours of commuting weekly and dramatically reduced automobile expenses... reduced lunchtime eating out...  More flexibility to handle things around the house and expand our involvement with our neighborhood peeps...  Seems the way we're supposed to live instead of constantly stressed out commuting.  Oddly enough, technology enables people to go back closer to "cottage industry" the way most work was pre industrial-evolution?

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6019 on: March 13, 2022, 09:54:04 AM »
Thanks for the kind words y'all!   Oddly, COVID and work from home let us explore life as we wanted FIRE to be...  Saving 10 hours of commuting weekly and dramatically reduced automobile expenses... reduced lunchtime eating out...  More flexibility to handle things around the house and expand our involvement with our neighborhood peeps...  Seems the way we're supposed to live instead of constantly stressed out commuting.  Oddly enough, technology enables people to go back closer to "cottage industry" the way most work was pre industrial-evolution?

Hope not. Much of that cottage industry was piece work that got the whole family involved to be able to feed everyone.

tennisray

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6020 on: March 13, 2022, 05:00:38 PM »
DW and I were just about into ďbeyondĒ territory. She FIREíd in December. In my mind, I realize, with our low expenses, we will never be able to spend this $ in our lifetime. However, I find myself unhappy/anxious about the combo market losses/inflation. I think we were so good at accumulating due to looking at saving as a ďgameĒ. We figured how to hack the game and enjoyed watching our nest egg grow. Now I feel (occasionally) that we are ďlosingĒ. Iím working on understanding that we won the game already so we donít need to play anymore.  Just ranting a bit. Iím thinking others have written about the transition from accumulation to spending phase and how it may take some time to get used to.  Iím sure in a few years when our egg grows Iíll laugh at myself for ever being worried.

Dicey

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6021 on: March 14, 2022, 04:59:30 AM »
Th at is so sad, IMO. It might be less so if you were a SWAMI, but you didn't say that. It seems that fear is keeping you from living the life you worked so hard for. Time is the only thing you can't buy mire of.

Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6022 on: March 14, 2022, 08:03:10 PM »
Th at is so sad, IMO. It might be less so if you were a SWAMI, but you didn't say that. It seems that fear is keeping you from living the life you worked so hard for. Time is the only thing you can't buy mire of.

It is but.. Remember these guys are very new to RE. Like everything else its a process. I remember a number of years (and millions of $$ ago) where I thought exactly the same.

Now I'm nonchalantly wondering if I should buy some more VTSAX now or wait for a 20% pullback.. Either way it doesn't matter much.

The fact I am working full time right now is not part of the argument you hear me?..:)

Dicey

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6023 on: March 14, 2022, 11:42:25 PM »
A quick update: we offered full asking price on the condo and for a few thrilling hours it seemed we were the winning offer. At 4:45 an offer was submitted that included a 5% over the best offer clause, so we had to up our bid to $425k, which is exactly what I predicted it was going to go for. Now to figure out how the hell to structure this deal to keep the tax man from our door.


Turtle

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6024 on: March 15, 2022, 06:22:58 AM »
Congrats to you and to bonus kid!  Everything you laid out in your previous post sounded like a well thought out and excellent plan.


couponvan

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6025 on: March 15, 2022, 06:47:16 AM »
Woohoo! I canít believe I am saying this, but it seems like you got a great deal! Considering you know how to renovate, it will be a good family planning situation.

LightTripper

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6026 on: March 15, 2022, 08:33:35 AM »
Sounds great!  I'm sure it will be a bit of a wrench for BK, but presumably he can continue to spend lots of time at yours to begin with while he builds up some new routines at his new place?  Exciting though!!

Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6027 on: March 15, 2022, 02:02:32 PM »
Awesome..:)

Isn't it amazing to be able to just write a check for $425k...:)

Much Fishing to Do

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6028 on: March 15, 2022, 02:28:50 PM »
DW and I were just about into ďbeyondĒ territory. She FIREíd in December. In my mind, I realize, with our low expenses, we will never be able to spend this $ in our lifetime. However, I find myself unhappy/anxious about the combo market losses/inflation. I think we were so good at accumulating due to looking at saving as a ďgameĒ. We figured how to hack the game and enjoyed watching our nest egg grow. Now I feel (occasionally) that we are ďlosingĒ. Iím working on understanding that we won the game already so we donít need to play anymore.  Just ranting a bit. Iím thinking others have written about the transition from accumulation to spending phase and how it may take some time to get used to.  Iím sure in a few years when our egg grows Iíll laugh at myself for ever being worried.
If you guys are retiring, you are totally gonna lose the game you are currently playing.  There's no way you'll die with near as much money (or be able to spend as much money, if you turn spendy) as if you were to keep working.  That is just a fact. 

When I plug my current LNW numbers into Firecalc ($3.6M, FIREing this year @ 50, SS at 70, spending up to $140k/yr) I on average will at the age of 80 have $8M in todays dollars.  There is the slightest chance my plan even fails if I didnt budge on the spending.  If I work another 15 years I on average will at the age of 80 have $20M.  What a putz I am for retiring when it comes to that game?  Its not like its even like I'm agreeing to go to jail or something by continuing to work, I work from home with quite a bit of hour flexibility (its my mind that is captive somehow for the full day).  Heck, my father still works today, from home, 10-20 hrs wk, and I think its great he does so with mom just passing.

Don't get me wrong, I played the game too, and I think that game drives you (and everyone here) quickly to the point you describe as "we will never be able to spend this $ in our lifetime".  Its similar to the other games we play that get us to go to work every day (school when we were young), and do our best at work (school when we were young), and scrimp and save at home.  But you have to decide when that game is not worth playing.  Successful people keep working harder and earning more and making personal sacrifices sometimes just because to not do that is "to be lazy", to not have that drive, etc.  That's a perfectly fine perspective we ingrain into ourselves that keeps us rolling when we need to be but its difficult, (generally fine, definitely not always) for our own long term good...maybe.  But at some point you've succeeded in snowballing this to the amount you need.  And face it, at some point there's more money than time.  This doesn't mean someone who works until their deathbed has wasted their life, its not that extreme.  There are highs and lows, wins and losses, ups and downs in both work and personal life that each have some value.  But surely that ratio changes once the money is there. 

flyingaway

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6029 on: March 15, 2022, 10:02:54 PM »
Whoa boy, this is timely! DH's son still lives with us and he is pathologically shy. Had he been tested as a kid, he would most likely given an Aspberger's diagnosis at the very least.  Yes, I'm aware it's no longer recognized, but it was when he was a kid. He is almost 30 and hasn't the least desire to fly the coop. He works full time, but his position isn't permanent. We live in a stupid-high COLA. We're shopping for a condo for him, because that's the only way to get him out.

A one bedroom condo in an older, but decent complex is a "steal" if you can find one for $425k-ish. Sadly, it's about the same price as renting. We are torn as to the right move. It's easy to have him at home, but that's not what's best for him, in our opinion. He is pretty independent, except he's under our roof. He does his own laundry, car maintenance, pet care, and keeps all of our things that plug in humming along. He inherited his mom's car when she died, so I'm sure he will keep it running as long as he can. It's a 2004 Toyota, so it still has plenty of life in it. He has few bills, but he pays everything but car insurance and cell, because at the moment, we're mustachians and they're way cheaper that way. He has no debt. He also has no friends besides his work family. Happily, they love him. He is smart, conscientious and reliable.

We can afford it, and we will have to be the bank, because cash is king in this market. We plan to buy with cash, then get a mortgage before DH retires.

Did I say we can afford it? We're already "beyond" and we will be receiving a large inheritance from DH's mother's estate soon. It's money we will never need, so the kids will get it eventually anyway.

Since the topic came up here, I decided to ask all of you for your thoughts. We are not fans of Economic Outpatienting, but I have no experience with kids, particularly one so painfully shy. Related facts: DH is a widower. He has a daughter, and we plan to give an equivalent amount* to her.

*Our plan is to gift each of them $100k of their grandmother's money, so Bonus Kid will still be on the hook for $325k-ish, but we will be the bank.

Sorry if this is scattered, but we have an appointment to see a new listing in a few minutes. I'm happy to clarify, discuss, etc. later. And I'm old school and won't blubber like a baby if facepunches are in order. Your thoughts are appreciated.

I should add that DH's mom and her pal, AL Z. Heimer lived with us for six or seven years and Bonus Kid was a a contributing member of her care team. He was good with her and that gave us enough freedom to stay sane.

My younger son is similar. He lost his job about two years ago and does not seem to want to work for a formal company anymore. We asked him to move back to live with us. In this case, we prefer that he lives with us. I know there are many potential problems, but we will handle everything until he is ready to move on again. He is creating some computer games and selling them for some pocket money. Helping my son is the happiest thing that I am doing in my retirement.

Dicey

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6030 on: March 16, 2022, 07:28:10 AM »
Whoa boy, this is timely! DH's son still lives with us and he is pathologically shy. Had he been tested as a kid, he would most likely given an Aspberger's diagnosis at the very least.  Yes, I'm aware it's no longer recognized, but it was when he was a kid. He is almost 30 and hasn't the least desire to fly the coop. He works full time, but his position isn't permanent. We live in a stupid-high COLA. We're shopping for a condo for him, because that's the only way to get him out.

A one bedroom condo in an older, but decent complex is a "steal" if you can find one for $425k-ish. Sadly, it's about the same price as renting. We are torn as to the right move. It's easy to have him at home, but that's not what's best for him, in our opinion. He is pretty independent, except he's under our roof. He does his own laundry, car maintenance, pet care, and keeps all of our things that plug in humming along. He inherited his mom's car when she died, so I'm sure he will keep it running as long as he can. It's a 2004 Toyota, so it still has plenty of life in it. He has few bills, but he pays everything but car insurance and cell, because at the moment, we're mustachians and they're way cheaper that way. He has no debt. He also has no friends besides his work family. Happily, they love him. He is smart, conscientious and reliable.

We can afford it, and we will have to be the bank, because cash is king in this market. We plan to buy with cash, then get a mortgage before DH retires.

Did I say we can afford it? We're already "beyond" and we will be receiving a large inheritance from DH's mother's estate soon. It's money we will never need, so the kids will get it eventually anyway.

Since the topic came up here, I decided to ask all of you for your thoughts. We are not fans of Economic Outpatienting, but I have no experience with kids, particularly one so painfully shy. Related facts: DH is a widower. He has a daughter, and we plan to give an equivalent amount* to her.

*Our plan is to gift each of them $100k of their grandmother's money, so Bonus Kid will still be on the hook for $325k-ish, but we will be the bank.

Sorry if this is scattered, but we have an appointment to see a new listing in a few minutes. I'm happy to clarify, discuss, etc. later. And I'm old school and won't blubber like a baby if facepunches are in order. Your thoughts are appreciated.

I should add that DH's mom and her pal, AL Z. Heimer lived with us for six or seven years and Bonus Kid was a a contributing member of her care team. He was good with her and that gave us enough freedom to stay sane.

My younger son is similar. He lost his job about two years ago and does not seem to want to work for a formal company anymore. We asked him to move back to live with us. In this case, we prefer that he lives with us. I know there are many potential problems, but we will handle everything until he is ready to move on again. He is creating some computer games and selling them for some pocket money. Helping my son is the happiest thing that I am doing in my retirement.
Having BK continue to live with us would actually be easier for us, because there would be someone here to mind the house when we were traveling. It's about figuring out a way to get him up and out, living a fully independent adult life. It's a big world out there and I want him to experience it. He's a good guy and worth the effort, IMO.

I have more to say on this topic, but I think I'll move the convo to my journal. If I wrote more about his job, it would be super easy to identify him and I'm not going to risk that. The reason I posted here is because you guys understand money isn't the crucial issue here. We can easily afford it - we won't be liquidating anything to pay for this place* - and advice like "find something cheaper" or "move to a lower cost area" just don't apply in this case.

Your responses have been very helpful and I greatly appreciate your feedback.

*We are definitely not just buying it and giving it to BK. We're paying cash so that our offer gets accepted. We will be getting a mortgage asap and he will be on it.

BeanCounter

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6031 on: March 16, 2022, 08:00:41 AM »

DW and I were just about into ďbeyondĒ territory. She FIREíd in December. In my mind, I realize, with our low expenses, we will never be able to spend this $ in our lifetime. However, I find myself unhappy/anxious about the combo market losses/inflation. I think we were so good at accumulating due to looking at saving as a ďgameĒ. We figured how to hack the game and enjoyed watching our nest egg grow. Now I feel (occasionally) that we are ďlosingĒ. Iím working on understanding that we won the game already so we donít need to play anymore.  Just ranting a bit. Iím thinking others have written about the transition from accumulation to spending phase and how it may take some time to get used to.  Iím sure in a few years when our egg grows Iíll laugh at myself for ever being worried.

I think like many other things in life, it comes down to values. What are your values? (and they can change at different points of your life so it's good to reevaluate)
Do you value watching money accumulate? Is there some future purpose for it?
Or maybe you keep working because you value what you are contributing through your career?
Or maybe you really value success and having a lot of money and a big job title defines success for you at this point in your life.

But maybe what you really value is spending time with friends and family. Or raising children or having time to have new adventures. If that's the case then when you can use models to predict a reasonable level of safety and success of your plan then it's time to pull the plug and don't look back.
As some wise folks on this forum told me when I was going through the process of pulling the trigger- you'll figure it out if something changes, you were smart enough to get this far.....

If you are living according to your values you're not "losing", no matter what the investment portfolio shows are losses.
Like ExFlyboy said it's a process.

At $2M-$4M net worth we are wealthier than 95% of the population. Surely that's enough, we've won the game and we can figure out how to enjoy it and not run out. I mean really, it's kind of ridiculous to think otherwise. :)

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6032 on: March 16, 2022, 02:15:32 PM »
^^^ Thanks BeanCounter, that's a great post.

It's really easy to value dollars.  It's truly difficult to value so many of the other things you mentioned in your post.  Finding that balance and ensuring you're being true to yourself is a "first world problem" for everyone in this thread.  So many people don't get to even consider it, but those who have the luxury to do so should make sure they don't waste their time chasing those things they can measure, instead of the things that really matter to them.

Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6033 on: March 16, 2022, 02:30:03 PM »
Yes VERY easy to measure dollars. In fact its the one datapoint that most of the Western World has been reduced to!

I mean you see it on people faces when you tell them what "you do". They automatically make an assessment of how much money you make and put you into their mental pecking order. Sadly for most of us OUR position in other peoples pecking order matters to us.

Thats the sad thing to me.. I mean who gives a rats ass what other peoples impressions of how much money I make?.. But it does matter.

I actually get a kick out of peoples reaction when I tell them I am a leech on society (I still look too young to retire).. My Wife hates it when I do that. It either brings a look of confusion or disgust.. its great..:)

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6034 on: March 16, 2022, 05:48:16 PM »
Yes VERY easy to measure dollars. In fact its the one datapoint that most of the Western World has been reduced to!

I mean you see it on people faces when you tell them what "you do". They automatically make an assessment of how much money you make and put you into their mental pecking order. Sadly for most of us OUR position in other peoples pecking order matters to us.

Thats the sad thing to me.. I mean who gives a rats ass what other peoples impressions of how much money I make?.. But it does matter.

I actually get a kick out of peoples reaction when I tell them I am a leech on society (I still look too young to retire).. My Wife hates it when I do that. It either brings a look of confusion or disgust.. its great..:)

I think there has been a slight change after this Covid thing.  They began calling some of us "essential personal."  Some people said, "Oh yeh."

As far as you being a leech on society, not really.  Just think about some of these Wall Street people that through their actions can close industries and ruin the finances and dreams of entire towns.  Those guys are the real leeches. 

I do realize that I am talking to money people here and many of you have different perspectives.  Well, you are just wrong.

Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6035 on: March 16, 2022, 07:11:01 PM »
Yup and people in the $100M+ club who inherited their wealth who pay no taxes at all using the "Buy-borrow-Die" system.

In other words the working stiffs pay their taxes for them!

Car Jack

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6036 on: March 17, 2022, 11:19:32 AM »
I look back on my own behavior over the last few weeks and am starting to feel that it's going to take a lot for me to stop working.  I'll let you know what I've done and what I think about it. 

So I have been looking online and reading reviews and videos and went to drive a car.  My thoughts are that I want something fun.  It (sorta) must be manual.  I'd prefer 'Murican although it doesn't have to be.  So I found and went to test drive a 22 Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing.  This particular one had the auto as the dealer sold their only manual.  It was fun to drive, had more power than most anything I've owned, handled really well and as Matt Farah said in his review, was better than the current BMW M3.  Wow!  The downside?  The Caddy dealer was adding $30k to the MSRP!  I have seen one other dealer within 50 miles adding $10k.  But a manual is really hard to find although I could travel a few hundred miles although I have no idea what those dealers would charge.  We're talking just this side of $100k.  Other cars considered: Porsche 718 Cayman GT4, Subaru BRZ (which they stopped orders of, probably because they can't get parts).  Lotus Emira.  Anyways, there's my big dollar passion.

Now my observations.  The other day, I was out doing errands in my manual Crosstrek that's really dirty.  I was thinking of getting it washed which is ten bucks.  After returning bottles and getting some groceries, I decided to not spend those ten dollars and just wait.

I'm also driving the Crosstrek all the time rather than splitting it between that and my Jeep, which gets half the MPG.  With gas prices, I'm saving.  I probably drive 30 miles a week these days.  And of course, when I get gas, I use an app to get money back and then use another app, Fletch that I can take a pic of any receipt.

Both DW and I are still working.  Both from home.  She's got a hard job.  Mine is cake at this point.  Older son turns 26 in July, so he'll have to go on his company's insurance, which will transfer some of the medical cost from us to him.  If we both quit our jobs, I could simply go on medicare (just turned 65).  DW and younger son could do ACA or if she refused to quit, go on her insurance at work.  We have over 50 times spending even with the recent drawdown of the market, which for me went down maybe $150k. 

So Lucy, here's my nickel.  Give my your diagnosis.

MaybeBabyMustache

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6037 on: March 17, 2022, 01:41:06 PM »
Am I ready to fire?

I don't feel like making a case study, because I feel like this is a bit of a silly question, so bear with me. I'm ridiculously financially conservative, and have continued to move my own goal posts for FIRE. But, long story very short, I fell into a career in tech 25 years ago as part of a college internship. I had zero desire to work in tech, but one role led to another role, which led to another, and so on, all of which were really well paid. I'm now to the point where I'm paid beyond anything I could have ever imagined. And now, suddenly I'm 46 & hoping I've put in enough time in tech to stop & doing something else, but have really struggled to pull the trigger & FIRE, given how much I make. Something else might mean paid work in the future, or it may never mean that again. I want enough money to be comfortable that I never have to work again.

I'm about to start internationally traveling again (work), after a 2 year hiatus due to COVID. The international work was my line in the sand for FIREing, so I am feeling ready. Plan would be to FIRE in January of 2023 (there are some compensation advantages to this timing.)

Married, husband works in tech as well. Two kids, 15 & 16.

Retirement accounts: $2.3M
Paid for house: worth $4.5-$5M
Other stock/savings (expected by EOY, given compensation timeline at my work): $750k
Debt: None
Husband's gross income: $500k (varies based on company stock price, which is a sizable portion of his comp)
Generous yearly budget: $100k (this is for the next few years, while the kids are at home)
College savings: $150k (eldest will likely be going to a community college & then likely a UC school. Youngest will most likely start at a UC school). Given current pricing, this should be enough for everyone, and we will cash flow whatever isn't covered via college savings.

Husband has no desire to retire/FIRE. We can all move to his work health care plan, which we are familiar with (I am at the same company). His compensation more than covers our current expenses. We have plenty saved for retirement. Why is it so scary?

Am I missing anything? Any words of wisdom or things I should be thinking about for the next few months? I'm being ridiculous & should just pull the trigger, right?

Exflyboy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6038 on: March 17, 2022, 01:48:50 PM »
A net worth of over $7M.. Yeah I think you can make it..:)

The only thing I would say is that house presumably has some eye-watering RE taxes with it.. So you might consider moving to a <$1M house and putting the cash in after tax savings.

MaybeBabyMustache

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6039 on: March 17, 2022, 01:55:13 PM »
@Exflyboy - we are committed to not moving until the kids are out of the house. Given our current location preferences, I'm not sure we will go as low as that, but yes, we've discussed moving & there's some appeal there. The property taxes are a large part of the budget, but we budgeted assuming we would stay here, to give us flexibility. I think fire risk will drive us out ahead of the cost of living, but who knows.

CoffeeR

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6040 on: March 17, 2022, 02:02:26 PM »
Am I ready to fire?
...
Am I missing anything? Any words of wisdom or things I should be thinking about for the next few months? I'm being ridiculous & should just pull the trigger, right?
I have heard financial planners report that the sense you might-not-have-enough is present for people who have a net worth of multiple tens of millions. At some point it does not matter how much you have, the sense it might not be enough can be there. The issue in these cases is not one of money, but one of psychology (I'm not an expert, not my field). The question you need to ask, how can you overcome whatever it is that is causing you to worry and question the next step. I realize this is somewhat of a non-answer.

So if this helps you answer the question on if can you retire and hearing this from a bunch of internet strangers will help, then yes.. you have enough, you can pull the trigger, you can FIRE. The real question, what do you need to make this answer resonate within you?
« Last Edit: March 17, 2022, 03:24:50 PM by CoffeeR »

MaybeBabyMustache

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6041 on: March 17, 2022, 02:08:15 PM »
Good question, @CoffeeR . I'll add a couple of thoughts. The big giant paychecks on my side are recent. I've always been well compensated, but received a big promotion a few years ago, and our company stock has increased drastically. As a result, what was a much easier decision has become more challenging for me. I have been saying I was ready to quit for years. The increase in my compensation has made it so much harder to actually pull the trigger. Just as my company has hoped, I'm sure.

COVID also screwed up my "what will I do when I'm not working" plans, and the life I was previously envisioning (traveling, fitness classes, social stuff with friends, volunteering) has changed quite a bit, given restrictions. I think that's heading back to re-opening, but it did cause me to wonder if I would enjoy FIRE without some of my previous plans.

I took a sabbatical a few years back (pre-COVID times) & loved it, and didn't really want to go back to work.

And at the end of the day, it's guilt. Guilt that I make so much, and can afford to do so much for my family (extended, immediate) & charities by continuing to work. I know no one in my family would expect me to work in a job I didn't enjoy, just so I could treat them to a vacation, so that's all in my own head.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6042 on: March 17, 2022, 05:12:12 PM »
@MaybeBabyMustache Not sure about your income, but mine took a nice jump this year in the form of record high bonus as well as high 'long term incentives' as long as I stick around till next year.  I don't expect inflation to subside anytime soon and the labor market is tight - insanely tight in certain places - so the company is revving up initiatives to maintain company morale.  I'm thinking that this year will be a really good time to be employed...

Sure, there are all sorts of active hedges against inflation other than employment (like working harder at saving money), but as long as you're not miserable, staying employed might be more fun and less stressful hedge than relying fully on land-lording and investments...  just my 2 cents. 
« Last Edit: March 17, 2022, 05:14:43 PM by EscapeVelocity2020 »

MaybeBabyMustache

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6043 on: March 17, 2022, 05:42:29 PM »
@EscapeVelocity2020 - my comp is high, but a larger portion is due to a very big increase in my company stock. No plans to landlord - we don't own any rental properties, and don't need to draw down our investments. We'll be living on my husband's salary.

I think the larger point is fair, I expect my comp to continue to rise, particularly this year with the desire for the company to retain high level talent. I guess the question is "when do you ever quit"? I'm making a lot (last year was $850k, I think). I expect this year to be similar, but some stock market variability. I already feel like I can't leave because the money is so good, so I'm not sure that's the right yardstick for decision making.

ysette9

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6044 on: March 17, 2022, 05:42:30 PM »
Good to hear from you, @maybebabymustache!

While I wasnít in the same league as you the talk of being hard to walk away from high compensation rťsin‚tes. Especially with stock vesting each month it got granular ďif I stick it out for three more weeks that means $xx!Ē.

I walked away from unvested golden handcuffs to take a job at your company. I walked away from a six-figure amount of unvested stock when I quit for good, that incidentally gave my mother heart palpitations. Hah. In the end I had convinced myself through a weekend with cFIREsim that we were good and I didnít like my job, so it felt ok walking away. My husband worked another 1.5 years and we knew that was the plan, so that kept me feeling like the plan was solid.

You have to believe it for yourself but even the Bogleheads people would give you the green light. With your expenses you would still be living g comfortably and saving/donating generously with just your husbandís income.

What gives you pause? So you have any fully formed concerns or just vague discomfort?

MaybeBabyMustache

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6045 on: March 17, 2022, 05:54:48 PM »
Hi, @ysette9 ! I think it's guilt more than anything else. It's hard to leave the salary, when I know I could do a lot with the money. It's sort of the point that EscapeVelocity made - it's a lot of money, why walk away now? :-) But, I also don't want to wake up & know I could have done a bunch of other things with my life. I feel like I'm really pretty close to the final decision.

ysette9

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6046 on: March 17, 2022, 06:01:05 PM »
Hi, @ysette9 ! I think it's guilt more than anything else. It's hard to leave the salary, when I know I could do a lot with the money. It's sort of the point that EscapeVelocity made - it's a lot of money, why walk away now? :-) But, I also don't want to wake up & know I could have done a bunch of other things with my life. I feel like I'm really pretty close to the final decision.
It is a lot of money. But it will always be a lot of money.

I remember reading the Quit Series by Dr Doom (old blog, living a FI) about working through his difficulty quitting with a therapist. He had giving back as one of this bullet pints and his therapist told him to just ignore that for now. Maybe you can find that old blog post and get the details that I donít remember. The message I got was not to ignore giving entirely,  it donít let that guilt be a driver of your life decisions. Ultimately you answer to yourself first.

And who is to say you donít have other ways to give to the world in you that arenít monetary? Someone I admire a lot living in your city is doing a lot now with arts and no profits now that she doesnít have to work for a living. It is really cool to see her explore over the past few years as she works through how to live a meaningful life without work being a central component.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6047 on: March 17, 2022, 06:51:22 PM »
@EscapeVelocity2020 - my comp is high, but a larger portion is due to a very big increase in my company stock. No plans to landlord - we don't own any rental properties, and don't need to draw down our investments. We'll be living on my husband's salary.

I think the larger point is fair, I expect my comp to continue to rise, particularly this year with the desire for the company to retain high level talent. I guess the question is "when do you ever quit"? I'm making a lot (last year was $850k, I think). I expect this year to be similar, but some stock market variability. I already feel like I can't leave because the money is so good, so I'm not sure that's the right yardstick for decision making.

OK, I'll be the stick in the mud who says don;t retire quite yet.... Its all for one reason.  combined you and your husband make like $1.4M year, but yet your LNW is like $3M?  So maybe work a couple years, which alone will like double your nut, which is pretty good for working a couple years?

I fully admit there is no need.  esp.  if you are correct in saying your spouse WANTS to continue working for years.  And if you're willing to sell that $5M home its not like thats even important.  BUt being able to double your nest egg in a couple years is not a lot of effort for such a big difference (unless its killing you).  Most of us arent coming close to adding that much with so little work.

BUt yes, I also agree this could be a slippery slope.  I read on one thread where someone gave a poster a hard time if they didn't work an extra year to then donate the hundreds of thousands of $ they made to charity, but that's an argument that would never let that person ever retire ever....

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6048 on: March 17, 2022, 07:42:33 PM »
@EscapeVelocity2020 - my comp is high, but a larger portion is due to a very big increase in my company stock. No plans to landlord - we don't own any rental properties, and don't need to draw down our investments. We'll be living on my husband's salary.

I think the larger point is fair, I expect my comp to continue to rise, particularly this year with the desire for the company to retain high level talent. I guess the question is "when do you ever quit"? I'm making a lot (last year was $850k, I think). I expect this year to be similar, but some stock market variability. I already feel like I can't leave because the money is so good, so I'm not sure that's the right yardstick for decision making.

IMHO, the actual numbers don't matter (although 850k does turn a few heads), it's all relative.  Are things getting better or worse?  For me, my quality of life has taken a few ups and downs since hitting FI.  This will be anecdotal, but things were getting worse for us and we were at lean FI, so I applied for an expat assignment fully intending to ER anyway.  The two years overseas with my DW 'retired' with the kids was really nice and we hit a more comfortable FI so I kept working.  Then things started to suck again and we were fat FI, but I had another opportunity to do 'one more' expat assignment (which didn't turn out to be the last one, of course).  We lived in Dubai and had a spectacular 2 years.  I would've missed that opportunity had I just figured I 'had to' ER at fat FI.  Then after that high point, things have calmed back down to a nice cruising altitude but now the kids don't necessarily need 2 parents at home and I enjoy my work.  I also had one last expat assignment in Paris for a year, so that was fun...

So all I'm trying to say is, it's not just about the money.  There are opportunities you have when you are working, or in the workforce and FI, and times like now are a good time to be 46 and not limiting yourself with 'well I have plenty of money so I guess I'll just retire and figure it out'.  Nothing wrong with that if it feels right, you are FI, but so are lots of folks these days with the crazy high real estate prices, crypto, and markets.  Maybe chill out for a year and, if nothing changes and it still feels right, then go for it!

I found, several times, that OMY gave me opportunities that I'm really glad I didn't miss!  No regrets, even though I get the 'slippery slope' worry of how easily OMY becomes complacency for some people too.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #6049 on: March 17, 2022, 08:44:58 PM »
Just a thought, but couldn't you just go live somewhere for a year and not bother with a job?