Author Topic: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!  (Read 1255655 times)

2sk22

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7300 on: November 18, 2023, 03:54:50 AM »
I havenít paid super close attention to NW this year, but my QQQ is apparently up 45% this year!  I have it in a Roth account and sometimes wonder how itís possible for so much money to be made by so many tech employees.  Iíve had it for so long that I forgot about it, but being up over 1000% it is becoming a substantial part of my NWÖ. The compounding is bonkers.

Jonathan Clements has a a nice blog post about how the effect of compounding sneaks up on you: https://humbledollar.com/2018/03/the-tipping-point/

Car Jack

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7301 on: November 18, 2023, 11:05:07 AM »
There have been some big swings in the market this year - I was just looking at a spreadsheet where I track our NW. From mid July to the end of October, we had a decrease of almost 7% but much of that has already been reversed in just the past week! I did a big rebalance in March and haven't changed our asset allocation since then. Anyone else seeing big swings?
This "Anyone" freely admits she's not really paying attention. It's so unlikely that we'll ever run out of funds that I just don't worry about it any more.

I look forward to big swings.  Why?  Tax loss harvesting.  I was able to TLH $78,000 worth.  No, not a $78k loss, that's just what the sell/buy was.  I'm still under $3k in loss for this year.  Schwab's site is nice because I can go in and see what my realized loss is and if it flips over $3k, I'll do some selling for gains.

Now that everything is going up again, when I'm ready to buy, I'll buy.  I don't have to worry that I'm buying high because if things drop, then it'll be tax lost harvesting time again.

ATtiny85

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7302 on: November 18, 2023, 12:52:04 PM »
Never understood being excited by a chance to TLH.

ixtap

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7303 on: November 18, 2023, 01:01:35 PM »
Never understood being excited by a chance to TLH.

Especially in this case where they didn't reinvest. I see the tax benefits of selling at a loss more of a consolation prize when it happens.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7304 on: November 18, 2023, 03:37:35 PM »
Never understood being excited by a chance to TLH.

It's a way to reallocate in a taxable account without paying taxes.  If you don't need to reallocate in a taxable account, it's not really useful other than, depending on the situation, the $3K offset of ordinary income.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7305 on: November 18, 2023, 04:52:07 PM »
Never understood being excited by a chance to TLH.

It's a way to reallocate in a taxable account without paying taxes.  If you don't need to reallocate in a taxable account, it's not really useful other than, depending on the situation, the $3K offset of ordinary income.

I harvested 30k or so from my bond funds last year changing between US and CA tax exempt.  I still have another 15k or so from changing between my old and new international funds a few years ago.  Never was out of the market and all 4 funds are ones Iím happy with.  When I start selling assets in retirement, it will keep my gains lower.

ATtiny85

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7306 on: November 18, 2023, 05:26:17 PM »
When I start selling assets in retirement, it will keep my gains lower.

How so, didnít you lower your basis? Or did you mean it a different way?

I TLH and appreciate the $3k knocked off at our pretty high marginal rate, but I would prefer a string of 2021 type years and not 2022 types. (I donít bother with small TLH moves, I just keep buying) Car Jack seems to be thrilled with their sell low buy high technique.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7307 on: November 19, 2023, 05:46:25 PM »
Because I can now offset the first 50k in gains from my paper losses.

ATtiny85

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7308 on: November 19, 2023, 06:06:49 PM »
Because I can now offset the first 50k in gains from my paper losses.

But those 50k in gains just get you back where you were. I would prefer to have 50k in gains from the original spot. As ixtap said, itís sort of a consolation prize. Useful to do, but itís just a good repair job after a fender bender that allowed you get some old scratches repainted. Nice to have, but I would rather not have the accident. At least in most cases. I have used some market blips to improve my portfolio by getting out of some pre-MMM/Bogleheads investments that were not the best. But now, when VTSAX dumps, it is not enjoyable to harvest losses.

Anyway, we are here in this thread to be happy and encourage current members and welcome newcomers to this wonderful level of portfolios.

I normally only update the household portfolio spreadsheet twice a year, maybe only once in Dec. i keep loose track and make rebalancing moves when needed, but never update 401k levels or add dividend reinvestment values. If the market can stay calm and not loose its mind over the next five weeks, we will pin a new all time high on the board. Especially with what should be a sizable taxable extra contribution in late December. End of year is arbitrary (unless we are talking taxes), but still will be nice.

ixtap

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7309 on: November 20, 2023, 01:29:15 PM »
End of year is arbitrary (unless we are talking taxes), but still will be nice.

We do our snapshots and rebalancing when RSUs vest. The vesting schedule changed when DH went part time, so we just skipped a snapshot rather than doing an extra.

Car Jack

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7310 on: November 21, 2023, 10:46:20 AM »
Never understood being excited by a chance to TLH.

I see it as a chance to say "Oops, I bought too high, let's reset that and buy at the new, lower price and while we're at it, get a tax loss".  In this last bout, I sold BRK/b and bought SCHB.  The third I use for potential TLH pairs is VTI. 

If my taxable account goes to my heirs, everything gets stepped up in basis.  So even more win for the family.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2023, 10:48:06 AM by Car Jack »

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7311 on: November 22, 2023, 04:38:01 PM »
My investment strategy has gotten more and more simple. Majority about 80 percent is S&P 500 or VTSAX. The rest in a stable value fund or cash. A company pension that will soon pay about 60K a year for the longest living of either me or my wife. Drawing 4% off the 401K will supply more money than we've ever spent. Concentrating on hiking, boating and biking. My time as an investor are coming to a close. Other than a few Roth transfers, financial life is going to be simple.

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7312 on: November 23, 2023, 05:02:21 PM »
There have been some big swings in the market this year - I was just looking at a spreadsheet where I track our NW. From mid July to the end of October, we had a decrease of almost 7% but much of that has already been reversed in just the past week! I did a big rebalance in March and haven't changed our asset allocation since then. Anyone else seeing big swings?
This "Anyone" freely admits she's not really paying attention. It's so unlikely that we'll ever run out of funds that I just don't worry about it any more.

The rent checks, pension checks, and other sources of income roll in every month without fail.  Other than stacking cash in short term T-bills, I don't really look at the accounts much.  I guess if the SHTF in real estate, I might consider going into purchase mode again.

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7313 on: November 23, 2023, 07:16:00 PM »
Weíre approaching behind territory (again), and I feel like weíre still in the middle of our accumulation phase. Well, also, a lot of what we have is tax-sheltered and in VTI or equivalent, so itís not kicking off dividends or rents, and it feels awkward to think about selling it off. Instead, weíre still working. 

flyingaway

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7314 on: November 26, 2023, 01:25:49 PM »
My investment strategy has gotten more and more simple. Majority about 80 percent is S&P 500 or VTSAX. The rest in a stable value fund or cash. A company pension that will soon pay about 60K a year for the longest living of either me or my wife. Drawing 4% off the 401K will supply more money than we've ever spent. Concentrating on hiking, boating and biking. My time as an investor are coming to a close. Other than a few Roth transfers, financial life is going to be simple.

I am in a similar boat, retired and no longer focused on fine tuning my portfolio. I have five years of expenses in CDs and another five years in total bond funds, the rest is in total market funds or similar. Our current focus is to enjoy life by spending money, booked our December trip to Mexico, January trip to Ecuador, and February-March trip to Asia, each one is longer than the previous one.

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7315 on: November 27, 2023, 07:39:38 PM »
My investment strategy has gotten more and more simple. Majority about 80 percent is S&P 500 or VTSAX. The rest in a stable value fund or cash. A company pension that will soon pay about 60K a year for the longest living of either me or my wife. Drawing 4% off the 401K will supply more money than we've ever spent. Concentrating on hiking, boating and biking. My time as an investor are coming to a close. Other than a few Roth transfers, financial life is going to be simple.

I am in a similar boat, retired and no longer focused on fine tuning my portfolio. I have five years of expenses in CDs and another five years in total bond funds, the rest is in total market funds or similar. Our current focus is to enjoy life by spending money, booked our December trip to Mexico, January trip to Ecuador, and February-March trip to Asia, each one is longer than the previous one.
Once the total is big enough and the cash/bond portion of that is big enough you're done. Tax strategy maybe a little. I'm thinking we'll be in the 22 percent bracket most of our lives. If we move up a bracket, is that really a reason to complain in retirement!?

SwordGuy

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7316 on: December 08, 2023, 03:32:28 PM »
With the market runup in the last couple of months and the real estate market values going up for the last several years, we've just crossed into "and Beyond" territory.

To celebrate, we're sending enough for the kids at a local children's home to buy themselves a nice Christmas present.

arcturus

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7317 on: December 09, 2023, 04:57:35 AM »
With the market runup in the last couple of months and the real estate market values going up for the last several years, we've just crossed into "and Beyond" territory.

To celebrate, we're sending enough for the kids at a local children's home to buy themselves a nice Christmas present.

Bravo @SwordGuy !!   That sounds like an amazing way to celebrate!  Congrats on all fronts -- well done!

flyingaway

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7318 on: December 11, 2023, 09:58:29 AM »
My investment strategy has gotten more and more simple. Majority about 80 percent is S&P 500 or VTSAX. The rest in a stable value fund or cash. A company pension that will soon pay about 60K a year for the longest living of either me or my wife. Drawing 4% off the 401K will supply more money than we've ever spent. Concentrating on hiking, boating and biking. My time as an investor are coming to a close. Other than a few Roth transfers, financial life is going to be simple.

I am in a similar boat, retired and no longer focused on fine tuning my portfolio. I have five years of expenses in CDs and another five years in total bond funds, the rest is in total market funds or similar. Our current focus is to enjoy life by spending money, booked our December trip to Mexico, January trip to Ecuador, and February-March trip to Asia, each one is longer than the previous one.

Added another month-long April-May Europe trip, flying into Rome and out of Madrid, with the details to be figured out. We will probably spend more time in our vegetable and fruit tree garden during the summer months and evaluate the effects of travel on our life to see what to do in the future. Retirement life is to try many things and figure out the best for us. Hopefully we will stay in this club indefinitely and enjoy our retirement life enormously.

ATtiny85

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7319 on: December 13, 2023, 05:13:21 AM »
As the market has clawed back up on the US side, I have really started moving some money to get with our desired glide path. The normal equity heavy buying in our taxable account throughout 2022 and 2023 are seeing these lovely gains and have easily outpaced the US Bond Index buying I have been doing in my 401k. I have a mix of funds in there, but I expect to have it simplified down to just US Bond in the next month as our yearly bonuses are going to be pretty high this year. After that it will be time to start chopping some VTSAX in my Rollover IRA. I need more time to continue learning about TIPS to see what makes good sense to do there.

Current AA is about 87% equity with desired retirement being closer to 65%, maybe even down to 60%. With only a couple years left before I plan to hang it up, I would like to use a glide rather than freefall shifting, so it will take some actual commitment to do it. The problem is when equities slide as they will do at some point, I tend to stop paying attention. Poor me.

Poundwise

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7320 on: December 14, 2023, 12:52:16 PM »
Hola, I'm joining this group! Joint NW with my husband seems to fluctuate around $2.8M.  We're pretty stealth, though; most of our money is in the house or in the market. Plus if we began to spend like the people around us, this nest egg would disappear pretty soon.

ixtap

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7321 on: December 14, 2023, 01:07:16 PM »
Hola, I'm joining this group! Joint NW with my husband seems to fluctuate around $2.8M.  We're pretty stealth, though; most of our money is in the house or in the market. Plus if we began to spend like the people around us, this nest egg would disappear pretty soon.

DH's colleagues marvel at the fact that he can afford to go part time, while also telling him he is under charging to tutor their kids in their coding classes and inviting us to join them at the trendiest restaurant...

Car Jack

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7322 on: December 14, 2023, 01:50:38 PM »
Maybe 5 years ago, I watched a Jack Bogle interview where he talked about why he didn't invest in international companies.  My own take is to ask: Name me a US company that does nothing internationally.  I can't think of any.  I've been holding VEA (developed international) for maybe 10 years frozen with dividends going to VTI.  I finally looked at its performance and decided it was time.  Sold it all and bought VTI so I'm now in a two fund.

In my ongoing quest to rid myself of interest and dividends in taxable, I sold about $30k I was holding in SPAXX (Fidelity money market fund) and bought BRK/b in taxable.  Good timing.  Went up maybe a grand so far.

dividendman

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7323 on: December 14, 2023, 02:16:09 PM »
Maybe 5 years ago, I watched a Jack Bogle interview where he talked about why he didn't invest in international companies.  My own take is to ask: Name me a US company that does nothing internationally.  I can't think of any.  I've been holding VEA (developed international) for maybe 10 years frozen with dividends going to VTI.  I finally looked at its performance and decided it was time.  Sold it all and bought VTI so I'm now in a two fund.

In my ongoing quest to rid myself of interest and dividends in taxable, I sold about $30k I was holding in SPAXX (Fidelity money market fund) and bought BRK/b in taxable.  Good timing.  Went up maybe a grand so far.

I have about 30% international via VEU/VXUS, it's never overperfomed VTI... Oh well, not quitting now haha. The dividends are higher, so that's a double edged sword of helping during downturns but also more taxable income (though it's the best type of taxable).

weebs

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7324 on: December 14, 2023, 03:02:40 PM »
The recent market returns pushed our LNW over $2M, so I'm joining the group.  Both DW and I are fortunate enough to get pensions and the house is paid for.  It's hard for me to believe, but our TNW is just over the 'and Beyond' threshold, depending on how we count the pensions.


We're pretty stealth, though; most of our money is in the house or in the market.

Stealth is the way.  I'm a WFH techie, so my wardrobe can charitably be described as 'Mountain Thriftstore'.

2sk22

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7325 on: December 14, 2023, 04:03:44 PM »
The recent market returns pushed our LNW over $2M, so I'm joining the group.  Both DW and I are fortunate enough to get pensions and the house is paid for.  It's hard for me to believe, but our TNW is just over the 'and Beyond' threshold, depending on how we count the pensions.


We're pretty stealth, though; most of our money is in the house or in the market.

Stealth is the way.  I'm a WFH techie, so my wardrobe can charitably be described as 'Mountain Thriftstore'.

@weebs  and @Poundwise  Welcome to the club! With the big market increase in the past few weeks, I felt sure we would get new members. Do you feel comfortable now that you have reached this threshold?


Dicey

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7326 on: December 14, 2023, 04:31:42 PM »
The recent market returns pushed our LNW over $2M, so I'm joining the group.  Both DW and I are fortunate enough to get pensions and the house is paid for.  It's hard for me to believe, but our TNW is just over the 'and Beyond' threshold, depending on how we count the pensions.


We're pretty stealth, though; most of our money is in the house or in the market.

Stealth is the way.  I'm a WFH techie, so my wardrobe can charitably be described as 'Mountain Thriftstore'.
Lol, our kids live in Aspen. We love the setting, but could care less about the chi-chi stuff. We always pop in to the thrift store at least once when we visit. Better still, there's a thrift store at the Pitkin County Recycle Center, aka the town dump. Magnificent!  We feel delightfully subversive shopping there, and do so as often as we can.

I worked at my thrift shop today and found a lovely Patagonia vest for my granddaughter for $10. It won't fit her until next year, and her mama won't care if it doesn't have tags on it. Score!

Poundwise

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7327 on: December 14, 2023, 05:01:45 PM »
The recent market returns pushed our LNW over $2M, so I'm joining the group.  Both DW and I are fortunate enough to get pensions and the house is paid for.  It's hard for me to believe, but our TNW is just over the 'and Beyond' threshold, depending on how we count the pensions.


We're pretty stealth, though; most of our money is in the house or in the market.

Stealth is the way.  I'm a WFH techie, so my wardrobe can charitably be described as 'Mountain Thriftstore'.

@weebs  and @Poundwise  Welcome to the club! With the big market increase in the past few weeks, I felt sure we would get new members. Do you feel comfortable now that you have reached this threshold?

Thanks! On some days I feel comfortable, but I feel like I'm approaching a turning point.  Previously we were just focused on earning and saving, but as we approach or have surpassed FI, I'm rethinking how we spend our money and time.  Whenever we go without or do something cheap, I wonder is this really necessary? Couldn't we be a bit more wasteful? In general, I continue the way I have done, since I figure that whatever I save, I can donate and it will disappear soundlessly into the great needy maw of human suffering.

weebs

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7328 on: December 14, 2023, 05:12:14 PM »
Welcome to the club! With the big market increase in the past few weeks, I felt sure we would get new members. Do you feel comfortable now that you have reached this threshold?

Thanks!  Weirdly...no.  Due to our backgrounds, both DW and I have some work to do in order to unwind our scarcity mindset.  I'm making progress, but I still have a ways to go.  I've been contemplating starting a journal here to help marshal some of my thoughts.  To be fair, two of our close friends from college have recently had serious medical issues.  One is managing, the other may never walk again.  On one hand, it drives home the point that life is short.  On the other hand, we see first hand how important it is to have good medical coverage and to have your house in good financial order.  Thankfully, we're both active and healthy and will stay that way as long as possible.


Lol, our kids live in Aspen. We love the setting, but could care less about the chi-chi stuff. We always pop in to the thrift store at least once when we visit. Better still, there's a thrift store at the Pitkin County Recycle Center, aka the town dump. Magnificent!  We feel delightfully subversive shopping there, and do so as often as we can.

I worked at my thrift shop today and found a lovely Patagonia vest for my granddaughter for $10. It won't fit her until next year, and her mama won't care if it doesn't have tags on it. Score!

Aspen is the real deal and absolutely beautiful. If we were closer, I'd be on that recycle center like a fat kid on cake.  DW and I live in the mountains ~40 miles west of Denver at just under 8000 ft.  I'd love to move over to the western slope, but that's not in the cards just yet.  Thanks for the warm welcome and nice score on the Patagonia jacket.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7329 on: December 14, 2023, 09:57:49 PM »
Iím 19 month from the RE part.  I also have a pension so even though I feel I have enough, my inner bag lady wonít give up the immediate pension and the ability to keep my healthcare. 

Right now Iím seriously thinking about what areas I want to spend more on that actually enrich my life.  Mostly itís ďlittle thingsĒ. Getting what produce I want at the store, trying not to worry about choosing to eat out while on vacation vs eating say half my meals from the grocery store in some way, taking a weekend trip to Yosemite just because I want to.  (Well since I went last week, it was way cheaper for a hotel room).

Dicey

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7330 on: December 15, 2023, 12:11:05 AM »
Lol, our kids live in Aspen. We love the setting, but could care less about the chi-chi stuff. We always pop in to the thrift store at least once when we visit. Better still, there's a thrift store at the Pitkin County Recycle Center, aka the town dump. Magnificent!  We feel delightfully subversive shopping there, and do so as often as we can.

I worked at my thrift shop today and found a lovely Patagonia vest for my granddaughter for $10. It won't fit her until next year, and her mama won't care if it doesn't have tags on it. Score!

Aspen is the real deal and absolutely beautiful. If we were closer, I'd be on that recycle center like a fat kid on cake.  DW and I live in the mountains ~40 miles west of Denver at just under 8000 ft.  I'd love to move over to the western slope, but that's not in the cards just yet.  Thanks for the warm welcome and nice score on the Patagonia jacket.
Thanks! Do you know about Aspen's employee housing program, called APCHA? It's an affordable program for Pitkin County employees. If I wanted to live there, I'd move there, take a coast-FIRE job for a couple of years, long enough to qualify for APCHA housing, buy a way-below market place and live happily ever after. I believe Vail and Breck's programs are modeled after this one.

2sk22

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7331 on: December 15, 2023, 02:51:27 AM »
Right now Iím seriously thinking about what areas I want to spend more on that actually enrich my life.  Mostly itís ďlittle thingsĒ. Getting what produce I want at the store, trying not to worry about choosing to eat out while on vacation vs eating say half my meals from the grocery store in some way, taking a weekend trip to Yosemite just because I want to.  (Well since I went last week, it was way cheaper for a hotel room).

I do all the grocery shopping in my household - my wife hates this chore. A few years ago, my wife was looking at my haul from Whole Foods and asked me how much I had paid for some eggplants. I had no idea - I wanted them for a dish I had in mind and just put them in my cart without looking at the price. It was at that moment I realized I had crossed some threshold in my mind :-)

Bateaux

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7332 on: December 15, 2023, 09:12:07 AM »
All the Colorado talk has reminded me to book my fall trip to the Rockies. Colorado thrift stores for the win!
Isn't it great to take vacations and not have to schedule vacation time at work!
I'm backpacking the Florida Trail in two weeks!  Hiking to my house which is on the trail at Mike 420. The whole trail is almost 1200 miles. I'll be a trail angel and trail maintainer as well.
All the best to you guys. Enjoy the holidays and everyday.

Turtle

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7333 on: December 15, 2023, 09:44:28 AM »
The recent market returns pushed our LNW over $2M, so I'm joining the group.  Both DW and I are fortunate enough to get pensions and the house is paid for.  It's hard for me to believe, but our TNW is just over the 'and Beyond' threshold, depending on how we count the pensions.


We're pretty stealth, though; most of our money is in the house or in the market.

Stealth is the way.  I'm a WFH techie, so my wardrobe can charitably be described as 'Mountain Thriftstore'.

Complete with an array of freebie t-shirts from IT vendors.

weebs

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7334 on: December 15, 2023, 10:29:41 AM »
Do you know about Aspen's employee housing program, called APCHA? It's an affordable program for Pitkin County employees. If I wanted to live there, I'd move there, take a coast-FIRE job for a couple of years, long enough to qualify for APCHA housing, buy a way-below market place and live happily ever after. I believe Vail and Breck's programs are modeled after this one.

Huh...I wasn't aware of the program.  Lack of affordable housing is very much a thing in the resort towns, so it's good to hear that they have something in place to help folks out.  DH's sister and her family live in Steamboat.  Thankfully, they bought a place in 2004 before it got too crazy.  I was obsessed with living there for a while, but have settled into rural life and would have a hard time living in town, especially during ski season.

I'm backpacking the Florida Trail in two weeks!  Hiking to my house which is on the trail at Mike 420. The whole trail is almost 1200 miles. I'll be a trail angel and trail maintainer as well.

That sounds fantastic.  Enjoy!

Complete with an array of freebie t-shirts from IT vendors.

It's like you can see into my closet.  ;-)  All but one of the vendors/companies for which I have swag have gone under or been acquired.  I got a backpack one year at Uberconf and it's pretty much my paci when I travel.

itchyfeet

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!be
« Reply #7335 on: December 16, 2023, 09:15:26 AM »
Thought I might check in.

I have settled into Paris life pretty well. Iíve been living here for around 6 weeks now.

I  managed to find a great apartment in a very nice location. Iíve signed a 1 year lease so that will see me through to the other side of the Olympics. Iíve also managed to open a bank account which was a challenge , but am not making much progress on the work visa front yet. Bureaucracy!

I am enjoying my job for the first time in 5 or so years, and Iíve even managed to make a few freindly acquaintances outside of work. So all good.

I still donít speak a lick of French (maybe ďun peuĒ lick) which is often quite frustrating but I manage.

Iím flying back to Australia for a few weeks over XMas to enjoy some blue skies and trees and then my wife will join me in Paris and life here will really begin to take shape.

I am Not sure what my FIRE horizon is now? 12 months? 2 years maybe even 3 years? I been going to FIRE for the past 4 years but just keep locking in more and grandiose lifestyle creep plans for post FIREÖ. Actually Iím starting to get into FIR territory and can drop the E. At least my DW is now FIRE. Her past day f her working life was last week.

2024 will be a big year. We will be 2 months in Paris, 1 month in Australia throughout the year. We will see how that suits us and how long my employer tolerates paying for my gypsy ways. As I am FI, we will only stick with it as long as itís enjoyable living in 2 homes on opposite ends of the world.

TempusFugit

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7336 on: December 16, 2023, 03:09:33 PM »
Hi there, fellow millionaires.    Thought I'd introduce myself now that the market has nudged me past the $2M milestone. 

I'm a software and engineering guy (shocking, right).  I've been at my current fortune 500 company for over 25 years. I appreciate my job and I don't hate it or anything, especially the past few years when I've been able to work from home most of the time, but I am tired of having the obligations on my time and energy.  I very much appreciate how fortunate I've been in the lottery of life.  Being born in this place and time to parents that loved me and provided for me, and having whatever modest gifts I have, those are all things that I can't claim to have earned by my own hard work and I recognize that. At best I can claim to have taken advantage of these things and not screwed it up too badly.

I joined the forums in 2017 after hearing about MMM on the Tim Ferris podcast.  I was already an investor and better than average with regard to my savings habits.  Thanks to my parents I guess for setting a good example. Once I read the MMM blog and started visiting the forums I got a bit more serious about simplifying my investments and tracking my spending.  At that time, I was thinking it would be great if I could be ready to retire in 2022 with a yearly spending goal of around $50K with a stash of $1.2M.  Of course the markets were good and I passed that number before then but strangely, my financial goals changed : )  It was also really easy to rationalize not retiring in 2022 given the conditions! 

I'm still working with no firm retirement date set, but I am starting to get serious about planning.  I'm using mid-2025 as a soft target date because it would be the year I turn 55, which has some marginal benefit at my company regarding health care.  The difference isn't much, but it's about $40K of free money, so I figure I'll take it.   

My goal at the moment is to have enough set aside with a solid plan so that I can be confident that I could leave work. I want to leverage that confidence to take some time off as a trial retirement (3 months at least) or possibly transition to part time work if I can negotiate that with my current company. Failing that, I may just leave and do some occasional freelance work if I need something to occupy my time. 

Obviously we all recognize that if we're in this group we don't have to work if we don't want to, but we have different lifestyle desires and financial fear thresholds with which to contend.  I'm planning a spending level of about $85K. Up to now, I've been using a simple spreadsheet to track my savings and spending and applying the 4% rule to get a feel for my progress.  I've used FIRECalc and the like for benchmarking my numbers. Now I'm plugging things into a more detailed retirement planning package (NewRetirement) and after the holidays I'm going to find a CFP to get a second opinion. If all those things show that I'm financially ready to pull the trigger (or will be in 18 months), then I guess I'll be out of excuses and will have to start planning a life!

pecunia

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7337 on: December 16, 2023, 03:52:53 PM »
Hi there, fellow millionaires.    Thought I'd introduce myself now that the market has nudged me past the $2M milestone. 

I'm a software and engineering guy (shocking, right).  I've been at my current fortune 500 company for over 25 years. I appreciate my job and I don't hate it or anything, especially the past few years when I've been able to work from home most of the time, but I am tired of having the obligations on my time and energy.  I very much appreciate how fortunate I've been in the lottery of life.  Being born in this place and time to parents that loved me and provided for me, and having whatever modest gifts I have, those are all things that I can't claim to have earned by my own hard work and I recognize that. At best I can claim to have taken advantage of these things and not screwed it up too badly.

I joined the forums in 2017 after hearing about MMM on the Tim Ferris podcast.  I was already an investor and better than average with regard to my savings habits.  Thanks to my parents I guess for setting a good example. Once I read the MMM blog and started visiting the forums I got a bit more serious about simplifying my investments and tracking my spending.  At that time, I was thinking it would be great if I could be ready to retire in 2022 with a yearly spending goal of around $50K with a stash of $1.2M.  Of course the markets were good and I passed that number before then but strangely, my financial goals changed : )  It was also really easy to rationalize not retiring in 2022 given the conditions! 

I'm still working with no firm retirement date set, but I am starting to get serious about planning.  I'm using mid-2025 as a soft target date because it would be the year I turn 55, which has some marginal benefit at my company regarding health care.  The difference isn't much, but it's about $40K of free money, so I figure I'll take it.   

My goal at the moment is to have enough set aside with a solid plan so that I can be confident that I could leave work. I want to leverage that confidence to take some time off as a trial retirement (3 months at least) or possibly transition to part time work if I can negotiate that with my current company. Failing that, I may just leave and do some occasional freelance work if I need something to occupy my time. 

Obviously we all recognize that if we're in this group we don't have to work if we don't want to, but we have different lifestyle desires and financial fear thresholds with which to contend.  I'm planning a spending level of about $85K. Up to now, I've been using a simple spreadsheet to track my savings and spending and applying the 4% rule to get a feel for my progress.  I've used FIRECalc and the like for benchmarking my numbers. Now I'm plugging things into a more detailed retirement planning package (NewRetirement) and after the holidays I'm going to find a CFP to get a second opinion. If all those things show that I'm financially ready to pull the trigger (or will be in 18 months), then I guess I'll be out of excuses and will have to start planning a life!

Sounds like good planning.  There is not only the financial effect on your life, but you may need to plan for the mental changes as well.  Retirement may uproot your way of life.  I need not elaborate.  Others have done that better than I ever could AND everyone has a unique situation.  I think Bateaux has provided a good example of one who has it together.

arcturus

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7338 on: December 17, 2023, 06:58:50 PM »
Hi there, fellow millionaires.    Thought I'd introduce myself now that the market has nudged me past the $2M milestone. 

I'm a software and engineering guy (shocking, right).  I've been at my current fortune 500 company for over 25 years. I appreciate my job and I don't hate it or anything, especially the past few years when I've been able to work from home most of the time, but I am tired of having the obligations on my time and energy.  I very much appreciate how fortunate I've been in the lottery of life.  Being born in this place and time to parents that loved me and provided for me, and having whatever modest gifts I have, those are all things that I can't claim to have earned by my own hard work and I recognize that. At best I can claim to have taken advantage of these things and not screwed it up too badly.

I joined the forums in 2017 after hearing about MMM on the Tim Ferris podcast.  I was already an investor and better than average with regard to my savings habits.  Thanks to my parents I guess for setting a good example. Once I read the MMM blog and started visiting the forums I got a bit more serious about simplifying my investments and tracking my spending.  At that time, I was thinking it would be great if I could be ready to retire in 2022 with a yearly spending goal of around $50K with a stash of $1.2M.  Of course the markets were good and I passed that number before then but strangely, my financial goals changed : )  It was also really easy to rationalize not retiring in 2022 given the conditions! 

I'm still working with no firm retirement date set, but I am starting to get serious about planning.  I'm using mid-2025 as a soft target date because it would be the year I turn 55, which has some marginal benefit at my company regarding health care.  The difference isn't much, but it's about $40K of free money, so I figure I'll take it.   

My goal at the moment is to have enough set aside with a solid plan so that I can be confident that I could leave work. I want to leverage that confidence to take some time off as a trial retirement (3 months at least) or possibly transition to part time work if I can negotiate that with my current company. Failing that, I may just leave and do some occasional freelance work if I need something to occupy my time. 

Obviously we all recognize that if we're in this group we don't have to work if we don't want to, but we have different lifestyle desires and financial fear thresholds with which to contend.  I'm planning a spending level of about $85K. Up to now, I've been using a simple spreadsheet to track my savings and spending and applying the 4% rule to get a feel for my progress.  I've used FIRECalc and the like for benchmarking my numbers. Now I'm plugging things into a more detailed retirement planning package (NewRetirement) and after the holidays I'm going to find a CFP to get a second opinion. If all those things show that I'm financially ready to pull the trigger (or will be in 18 months), then I guess I'll be out of excuses and will have to start planning a life!

Welcome @TempusFugit  -- your situation has some similarities to mine and we're possibly on a similar timeline, although I'm currently battling OMY syndrome in my planning/analysis.    A spending of $85K is fantastic, but don't forget to keep in mind that, as a software engineer for a fortune 500 company for 25+ years, you will get social security as well!  Agree with @pecunia as well that, the bigger challenge may be -- retiring to what?   Which is where I've been doing some introspection over the past few months.   

Anyways, welcome and I look forward to sharing our experiences on this journey!


ATtiny85

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7339 on: December 18, 2023, 06:22:39 AM »
All the Colorado talk has reminded me to book my fall trip to the Rockies. Colorado thrift stores for the win!
Isn't it great to take vacations and not have to schedule vacation time at work!
I'm backpacking the Florida Trail in two weeks!  Hiking to my house which is on the trail at Mike 420. The whole trail is almost 1200 miles. I'll be a trail angel and trail maintainer as well.
All the best to you guys. Enjoy the holidays and everyday.

Your trips are so awesome to hear about! have a great time.

Car Jack

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7340 on: December 18, 2023, 07:19:26 AM »
So to explain tax loss harvesting a bit more, it's not buy high, sell low.  It's "I bought high" and now the market has dropped.  So as long as it's been over 30 days, I sell the one that was bought high.  But at the same time, I buy an equal amount of something that's nearly identical.  The result is that the loss from selling at a lower price gives me a loss for my taxes but buying the near identical keeps me invested, but at the new, low basis.

For example, sell VTI at a loss and buy SCHB.  If you look at their charts over time, they're nearly identical.  It's like if someone looked at my investments and said, "hey Jack.  You paid way too much for VTI and I see you're also in SCHB.  What would you think if I could get you a tax loss and keep you fully invested in this total US stock type ETF?".  My answer would be "Sure.  I could use the tax loss to reduce my taxes and then I reduce my total basis and overall, I take no actual loss as the market corrects back up".  Sure, I'm assuming the market is going to go back up.  But don't we all assume this?  If not, we'd all be 100% in CDs.

Dicey

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7341 on: December 18, 2023, 08:48:28 AM »
So to explain tax loss harvesting a bit more, it's not buy high, sell low.  It's "I bought high" and now the market has dropped.  So as long as it's been over 30 days, I sell the one that was bought high.  But at the same time, I buy an equal amount of something that's nearly identical.  The result is that the loss from selling at a lower price gives me a loss for my taxes but buying the near identical keeps me invested, but at the new, low basis.

For example, sell VTI at a loss and buy SCHB.  If you look at their charts over time, they're nearly identical.  It's like if someone looked at my investments and said, "hey Jack.  You paid way too much for VTI and I see you're also in SCHB.  What would you think if I could get you a tax loss and keep you fully invested in this total US stock type ETF?".  My answer would be "Sure.  I could use the tax loss to reduce my taxes and then I reduce my total basis and overall, I take no actual loss as the market corrects back up".  Sure, I'm assuming the market is going to go back up.  But don't we all assume this?  If not, we'd all be 100% in CDs.
May I add to your questions, please? My BIL is keen to do some TLH with an inherited account. As we understand from the IRS website, there's a $3k/year cap, with the balance to be rolled forward. Why bother for $3k? Are we missing something?

We already do this with some old rental losses, is it even possible to do both?

farmecologist

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7342 on: December 18, 2023, 10:46:20 AM »
Hi there, fellow millionaires.    Thought I'd introduce myself now that the market has nudged me past the $2M milestone. 

I'm a software and engineering guy (shocking, right).  I've been at my current fortune 500 company for over 25 years. I appreciate my job and I don't hate it or anything, especially the past few years when I've been able to work from home most of the time, but I am tired of having the obligations on my time and energy.  I very much appreciate how fortunate I've been in the lottery of life.  Being born in this place and time to parents that loved me and provided for me, and having whatever modest gifts I have, those are all things that I can't claim to have earned by my own hard work and I recognize that. At best I can claim to have taken advantage of these things and not screwed it up too badly.

I joined the forums in 2017 after hearing about MMM on the Tim Ferris podcast.  I was already an investor and better than average with regard to my savings habits.  Thanks to my parents I guess for setting a good example. Once I read the MMM blog and started visiting the forums I got a bit more serious about simplifying my investments and tracking my spending.  At that time, I was thinking it would be great if I could be ready to retire in 2022 with a yearly spending goal of around $50K with a stash of $1.2M.  Of course the markets were good and I passed that number before then but strangely, my financial goals changed : )  It was also really easy to rationalize not retiring in 2022 given the conditions! 

I'm still working with no firm retirement date set, but I am starting to get serious about planning.  I'm using mid-2025 as a soft target date because it would be the year I turn 55, which has some marginal benefit at my company regarding health care.  The difference isn't much, but it's about $40K of free money, so I figure I'll take it.   

My goal at the moment is to have enough set aside with a solid plan so that I can be confident that I could leave work. I want to leverage that confidence to take some time off as a trial retirement (3 months at least) or possibly transition to part time work if I can negotiate that with my current company. Failing that, I may just leave and do some occasional freelance work if I need something to occupy my time. 

Obviously we all recognize that if we're in this group we don't have to work if we don't want to, but we have different lifestyle desires and financial fear thresholds with which to contend.  I'm planning a spending level of about $85K. Up to now, I've been using a simple spreadsheet to track my savings and spending and applying the 4% rule to get a feel for my progress.  I've used FIRECalc and the like for benchmarking my numbers. Now I'm plugging things into a more detailed retirement planning package (NewRetirement) and after the holidays I'm going to find a CFP to get a second opinion. If all those things show that I'm financially ready to pull the trigger (or will be in 18 months), then I guess I'll be out of excuses and will have to start planning a life!

Welcome @TempusFugit  -- your situation has some similarities to mine and we're possibly on a similar timeline, although I'm currently battling OMY syndrome in my planning/analysis.    A spending of $85K is fantastic, but don't forget to keep in mind that, as a software engineer for a fortune 500 company for 25+ years, you will get social security as well!  Agree with @pecunia as well that, the bigger challenge may be -- retiring to what?   Which is where I've been doing some introspection over the past few months.   

Anyways, welcome and I look forward to sharing our experiences on this journey!

Welcome @TempusFugit from me as well! 

Thought I'd chime in because my situation is similar, but we are a bit ahead of you.  I'm also a "tech guy" working for a megacorp...for 31 years now.  I'm pretty much burned out, don't have the will to "keep up" anymore like I used to, and am battling MASSIVE motivation issues.  The company may likely say "bye-bye" before I do.  However, I am targeting early 2025...when I will also turn 55 years old, because there are a few additional benefits at my megacorp when you reach that age.

Luckily, since we are almost at "and beyond" territory in terms of savings, I could very well pull the trigger whenever I want to.   The brokerage (stock trading) account has done MUCH better than anticipated this year due to some "lucky" trades...and is the reason the "and beyond" goal is sight.   And I agree with @arcturus...don't forget about Social Security...it ends up to be a substantial amount of cash, especially for those who have had long careers in highly compensated fields.

One thing I've discovered is that pulling the trigger on early retirement is harder than I thought it would be.   OMY syndrome is a very real thing...but I'm getting to the point when cutting the cord with the corporate world will happen sooner rather than later.

One more thing...I heartily recommend https://ficalc.app/ for retirement planning....perhaps the best free tool I have found.  It allows you to play around with many things, including many different withdrawal strategies, etc...

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7343 on: December 18, 2023, 12:46:31 PM »
Weíre also flirting with ďBeyondĒ territory, though Iím 60 50 and DW is a few years younger. I was really losing motivation and becoming super cynical, anxious and depressed at mini-megacorp where I had been for a long time. I had intentions to FIRE, but kids are expensive(!) and hedonic adaptation has see in. I changed jobs and it relieved most of the cynicism and anxiety and almost all the depression.

Iím having fun enough with the work to keep doing it. Itís amazing at this stage how much the stach grows every year with the combination of contributions and even modest gains. I donít know if Iíll go all the way to 55 like the recent posters, but Iím pretty sure I wonít go beyond that.

As we start the new year, weíre going to update our estate planning and arrange a session with a financial planner (fee only) to get some different perspectives on whatís next. With our ďsafeĒ withdrawal rate in the six figures now, and social security out there eventually (maybe?), it would be worth considering our options. Meanwhile itís kidsí sports all the time, and thatís fun and active and social and community-building.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2023, 05:50:30 PM by Taran Wanderer »

secondcor521

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7344 on: December 18, 2023, 02:10:04 PM »
So to explain tax loss harvesting a bit more, it's not buy high, sell low.  It's "I bought high" and now the market has dropped.  So as long as it's been over 30 days, I sell the one that was bought high.  But at the same time, I buy an equal amount of something that's nearly identical.  The result is that the loss from selling at a lower price gives me a loss for my taxes but buying the near identical keeps me invested, but at the new, low basis.

For example, sell VTI at a loss and buy SCHB.  If you look at their charts over time, they're nearly identical.  It's like if someone looked at my investments and said, "hey Jack.  You paid way too much for VTI and I see you're also in SCHB.  What would you think if I could get you a tax loss and keep you fully invested in this total US stock type ETF?".  My answer would be "Sure.  I could use the tax loss to reduce my taxes and then I reduce my total basis and overall, I take no actual loss as the market corrects back up".  Sure, I'm assuming the market is going to go back up.  But don't we all assume this?  If not, we'd all be 100% in CDs.
May I add to your questions, please? My BIL is keen to do some TLH with an inherited account. As we understand from the IRS website, there's a $3k/year cap, with the balance to be rolled forward. Why bother for $3k? Are we missing something?

We already do this with some old rental losses, is it even possible to do both?

@Car Jack, yep, that's the idea.

If you sell, recognize the loss, and buy a substantially identical (or identical) security, the law disallows that, because that's too much of a tax freebee and people would be TLH every second.  So they make you either wait 30 days before/after, or the loss gets deferred.  This is called a wash sale and the wash sale rule.

But yes, if you sell and buy something that is not substantially identical, then you can recognize the loss and stay fully invested without changing your asset allocation.  People do this a lot, particularly in December at the end of the tax year.

@Dicey, the rules are different than you describe.  Realized losses fully offset realized gains first, then $3K of losses offsets ordinary income, then any remaining loss is carried forward to the next year.  Lather, rinse, repeat until the loss is used up or the taxpayer dies.  So if you have $40K in capital gains, then you could realize $40K of capital losses and your net capital gains that year would be zero.  Also of note, $40K in STCG which would be taxed at ordinary income tax rates can be offset by $40K of LTCL, which might have been taxed at 0%.

I'm not sure how rental losses behave, so I won't try to answer your second question.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7345 on: December 18, 2023, 02:27:01 PM »
My hot take on TLH is that it's relatively easy to account for (losses get carried forward each year on your returns, both short term and long term losses), you get an easy 3k offset of income each year, and if you ever sell and realize capital gains, you can save a ton on taxes.  The Mustachian Person Problem is that I haven't sold and realized much capital gains over the years, so I just have this really valuable accounting line item that I'll likely die with.  I stopped TLH years ago for this very reason (once I hit ~$100k).  There is no harm in building up these accounting losses, but I question how valuable they are for Mustachians, unless the plan is to spend the portfolio (which, let's be realistic, nobody in this thread seems to be doing)...  I'll personally get more valuable tax benefits and personal satisfaction out of a number of other tax strategies like a donor-advised fund or trust.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2023, 02:31:34 PM by EscapeVelocity2020 »

ATtiny85

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7346 on: December 18, 2023, 02:31:32 PM »
I will add one comment about tax loss harvesting. A wash sale is not illegal, or even against the rules. You can "wash sale" all day long if you want. It just disallows claiming the loss. A wash sale should be avoided of course in probably 99.99%, or more, of cases.

I mention it because I have seen some almost panicky posts about it. I would think every brokerage these days does a good job of taking care of the paperwork.

Probably not a bad thing to do a TLH once to get a feel for the moving pieces. I have only done it a couple times, GFC and mid-2022. Others do it whenever possible. Other never do it. If you have a sizable taxable account and we have a monster pullback, it can be very lucrative.

secondcor521

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7347 on: December 18, 2023, 02:36:21 PM »
I will add one comment about tax loss harvesting. A wash sale is not illegal, or even against the rules. You can "wash sale" all day long if you want. It just disallows claiming the loss. A wash sale should be avoided of course in probably 99.99%, or more, of cases.

Most of the time, it doesn't even disallow claiming the loss.  It just defers the loss to when you sell the shares that you bought which created the wash sale - the so called replacement shares.  The main exception where the loss does end up getting "wasted" is if you bought the replacement shares inside an IRA.

farmecologist

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7348 on: December 18, 2023, 03:01:01 PM »
I will add one comment about tax loss harvesting. A wash sale is not illegal, or even against the rules. You can "wash sale" all day long if you want. It just disallows claiming the loss. A wash sale should be avoided of course in probably 99.99%, or more, of cases.

Most of the time, it doesn't even disallow claiming the loss.  It just defers the loss to when you sell the shares that you bought which created the wash sale - the so called replacement shares.  The main exception where the loss does end up getting "wasted" is if you bought the replacement shares inside an IRA.

Another thing I might add is that a loss is still a loss...even if it might be beneficial for tax purposes.  And that typically isn't good, especially with brokerage accounts.

I see the tax loss harvesting, wash sale discussion every year and it makes me wonder....just how much have folks really lost?!   My hot take is that there are a lot of gamblers out there...not investors.   I actively trade stocks and see folks gamble far too often...and usually end up paying the price.


Fomerly known as something

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Re: Race from $2M to $4M...and Beyond!
« Reply #7349 on: December 18, 2023, 03:05:14 PM »
My hot take on TLH is that it's relatively easy to account for (losses get carried forward each year on your returns, both short term and long term losses), you get an easy 3k offset of income each year, and if you ever sell and realize capital gains, you can save a ton on taxes.  The Mustachian Person Problem is that I haven't sold and realized much capital gains over the years, so I just have this really valuable accounting line item that I'll likely die with.  I stopped TLH years ago for this very reason (once I hit ~$100k).  There is no harm in building up these accounting losses, but I question how valuable they are for Mustachians, unless the plan is to spend the portfolio (which, let's be realistic, nobody in this thread seems to be doing)...  I'll personally get more valuable tax benefits and personal satisfaction out of a number of other tax strategies like a donor-advised fund or trust.

I 100% plan to sell a lot in my taxable brokerage beginning in 2025.  The idea is to spend most of it before I hit 59.5 12 years after FIRE.

ETA:  my $45,000 or so tax loss came from switching between a CA tax advantaged bond fund and a general US tax advantaged bond fund last year and switching my international fund between similar but different funds back in 2018.  Iíve only lost on paper since funds were invested the entire time.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2023, 03:08:46 PM by Fomerly known as something »