Author Topic: Ukraine  (Read 765029 times)

Fru-Gal

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5150 on: March 18, 2025, 04:40:16 PM »
Yeah, for a country that is “easily winning”, Russia sure seems to want to stop this war they started.

Travis

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5151 on: March 19, 2025, 10:47:12 AM »
Trump just got off the phone with Zelensky, more to follow.

Witkoff was on Fox a few minutes ago praising Trump's phone call with Putin as a masterclass in negotiations or some shit. Also says he takes Putin at his word.

Meanwhile, Putin's latest proposal is that Trump recognizes all of Russia's land claims including land they don't even control, and in return Putin will forgo claims on Odessa. He might as well have said Paris. So we're all clear, Putin believes Ukraine belongs to him and it's within his rights to cut if off from the outside world.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-wants-trump-formally-recognise-all-land-russia-has-taken-ukraine-2025-03-19

Travis

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5152 on: March 19, 2025, 11:14:32 AM »
Witkoff claims that not only did Putin give out the order to stop all drone attacks on energy infrastructure, but they shot down their own drones to comply. This is Lavrov-level bullshit. The drones kept flying for hours.

https://x.com/annmarie/status/1902395882563096718

https://x.com/annmarie/status/1902396289234383148

https://fixupx.com/archer83able/status/1902397654254154040

https://x.com/massdara/status/1902395312049721677

LennStar

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5153 on: March 20, 2025, 01:39:31 AM »
Ukraine did a small attack in Bolgorod area (Russian territory) 30km or so South of the Kursk invasion. It might be they try to loose the pressure on the remaining Kursk incursion. It didn't went too well, and it was in a hard to attack area. I guess it was a probing attack if the Russians could be caught surprised, but that wasn't the case.

LennStar

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5154 on: March 23, 2025, 04:26:34 AM »
Wow! Say what you want about Putin, he still knows how to manipulate people.

Time for some German:
A) aus der Hand fressen - feeding out of someones hand: Someone has been totally tamed.
B) fremdschämen: Someone has done something so dumb even you feel embarresed.

https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/ausland/usa-sondergesandter-witkoff-putin-ukraine-krieg-russland-trump-100.html?utm_source=firefox-newtab-de-de

translation:

US special envoy Steve Witkoff was visibly impressed by the Kremlin leader after his meeting with Vladimir Putin.

The Russian president is not a “bad guy” but rather a “great” leader who wants to end the war in Ukraine, the adviser to US President Donald Trump said in an interview with right-wing presenter Tucker Carlson broadcast on Friday.

Witkoff, who spent several hours with Putin in Moscow last week, said:


    I liked him. I thought he was honest with me.


Putin also told him that he had prayed for the Republican after the assassination attempt on Trump last summer, Witkoff continued.


    He prayed for his friend.


Putin had also given him a gift for Trump, Witkoff reported, visibly impressed: “a wonderful portrait of President Trump by a leading Russian artist”.

This was “such a gracious moment”.




BicycleB

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5155 on: March 23, 2025, 02:12:08 PM »
Wow! Say what you want about Putin, he still knows how to manipulate people.

Time for some German:
A) aus der Hand fressen - feeding out of someones hand: Someone has been totally tamed.
B) fremdschämen: Someone has done something so dumb even you feel embarresed.

https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/ausland/usa-sondergesandter-witkoff-putin-ukraine-krieg-russland-trump-100.html?utm_source=firefox-newtab-de-de

translation:

US special envoy Steve Witkoff was visibly impressed by the Kremlin leader after his meeting with Vladimir Putin.

The Russian president is not a “bad guy” but rather a “great” leader who wants to end the war in Ukraine, the adviser to US President Donald Trump said in an interview with right-wing presenter Tucker Carlson broadcast on Friday.

Witkoff, who spent several hours with Putin in Moscow last week, said:


    I liked him. I thought he was honest with me.


Putin also told him that he had prayed for the Republican after the assassination attempt on Trump last summer, Witkoff continued.


    He prayed for his friend.


Putin had also given him a gift for Trump, Witkoff reported, visibly impressed: “a wonderful portrait of President Trump by a leading Russian artist”.

This was “such a gracious moment”.

sigh

those are very appropriate German phrases

Travis

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5156 on: March 23, 2025, 07:05:22 PM »
Witkoff is now all the way up Putin's ass. Yesterday it was "they held elections in the occupied regions. They want to be part of Russia." He manages to leave out the part where those elections were supervised by an invading army, and in the case of Zaporizhzhia only involved like 10% of the population because Ukraine still holds the territory. Today he's "both siding" as if Russia had legitimate gripes that could only be resolved by war.

https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3ll2dymjodc2m

And on the day Vance threw Zelensky under the bus in the White House, Trump's team called Starmer to try to get him to gang up on Zelensky.

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2025/03/23/7504147/

Travis

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5157 on: March 27, 2025, 12:46:46 PM »
US negotiators trying to resurrect the mineral deal, but with even worse terms than before.

https://archive.li/Wrd3N

https://x.com/yarotrof/status/1905325879091466511

LennStar

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5158 on: March 27, 2025, 01:38:51 PM »
US negotiators trying to resurrect the mineral deal, but with even worse terms than before.

https://archive.li/Wrd3N

https://x.com/yarotrof/status/1905325879091466511
Well Ukraine, just say yes and after the war do the Trump thing and say that this is a bad deal and you are out of it.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5159 on: March 28, 2025, 07:34:05 AM »
US negotiators trying to resurrect the mineral deal, but with even worse terms than before.

https://archive.li/Wrd3N

https://x.com/yarotrof/status/1905325879091466511
Well Ukraine, just say yes and after the war do the Trump thing and say that this is a bad deal and you are out of it.
It's clear that any ceasefire deal will be temporary, and that each side will use the pause to rebuild their militaries. The question is whether this would benefit Russia or Ukraine more?
  • Military: Ukraine needs more soldiers, and a 2-year pause would bring a lot of 16 and 17 year olds into the draft. But Russia, being an even bigger country, could mobilize even more. Plus Russia has a larger and more intact industrial base, and can trade for Chinese/NK weapons. Advantage: Russia.
  • Technology: Russia could expand its drone warfare capabilities so that round 2 would not look like Ukranian drones blowing up row after row of Cold War era tanks, and would instead look like waves of tens of thousands of long-range drones. Ukraine, meanwhile, might perfect its anti-drone defenses and roll out AI drones.  Advantage: Russia.
  • Political Stability: Some observers have noted that the end of the Ukraine war could be the beginning of the end for the Putin regime. Wartime deprivations and totalitarian dictatorship make sense to Russians in the context of an existential fight against the evil West (see the message of Russia's Victory Day parades), but what happens after the fighting has ended? Can Russia hold itself together with a spartan North-Korea style military economy? Meanwhile, Ukraine will probably celebrate its leader for delivering them from the existential threat. Advantage: Ukraine.
  • Economy: During the pause between wars, Ukraine could see a massive increase in foreign investment, the return of refugees, elections, and hopefully a continued crackdown on corruption. All these factors plus continued flank-speed defense production could result in rapid GDP growth, allowing the government to escape its debts through the application of modest inflation and issuance of new bonds. The really smart thing would be for Ukraine to allow in a few hundred thousand migrant workers or immigrants from places like Nepal or the Balkans, with integration training and an optional pathway to citizenship through military service. Russia, meanwhile, would likely reopen to Western foreign investment, obtain some frozen assets, and be able to sell fossil fuels to the West at higher prices. I don't consider Russia's return-to-status-quo to be as important as Ukraine's continued transformation into a more honest and more market-based economy, but in a political sense it might help the Russian regime improve living conditions. Yet it is Ukraine who could take the economic initiative, do the right things, and become the hot emerging market of Europe. Advantage: Ukraine, if they do the right things





dividendman

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5160 on: March 28, 2025, 09:07:25 AM »
US negotiators trying to resurrect the mineral deal, but with even worse terms than before.

https://archive.li/Wrd3N

https://x.com/yarotrof/status/1905325879091466511
Well Ukraine, just say yes and after the war do the Trump thing and say that this is a bad deal and you are out of it.

Yeah, it's crazy that this hasn't been Ukraine's approach since day 1. Tell Trump he's great and agree to everything in exchange for more aid, then once the war is over(ish) reneg on everything. You don't even have to say you're reneging, just don't do it.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5161 on: March 28, 2025, 12:09:45 PM »
US negotiators trying to resurrect the mineral deal, but with even worse terms than before.

https://archive.li/Wrd3N

https://x.com/yarotrof/status/1905325879091466511
Well Ukraine, just say yes and after the war do the Trump thing and say that this is a bad deal and you are out of it.
Yeah, it's crazy that this hasn't been Ukraine's approach since day 1. Tell Trump he's great and agree to everything in exchange for more aid, then once the war is over(ish) reneg on everything. You don't even have to say you're reneging, just don't do it.
Given that Trump is as good as a Russian asset, and given that Putin has genocidal intentions, I don't think reneging would even be that dishonest. TrumPutin have to offer Ukraine something worth accepting a ceasefire, given the disadvantages listed above, because their Best Alternative To Negotiated Agreement (BATNA) is to just continue fighting, without US support. And if Russia wants a ceasefire, it can only mean that they've determined a ceasefire is a step on the way to defeating Ukraine.

Posthumane

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5162 on: March 28, 2025, 12:19:34 PM »
  • Military: Ukraine needs more soldiers, and a 2-year pause would bring a lot of 16 and 17 year olds into the draft.
Just a nitpicky point, but Ukraine's minimum draft age is currently 25 (lowered from 27). If they wanted to draft males 18-25 they could potentially have another 1.5 million people in the draft pool, but so far they have resolutely been against it.

Travis

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5163 on: April 01, 2025, 12:30:58 PM »
Russia saying they can't have peace unless they get everything they ever wanted. Water is wet.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/trump-threatens-secondary-sanctions-russia-kremlin-says-it-is-continuing-talk-us-2025-04-01/

Travis

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5164 on: April 04, 2025, 11:54:18 AM »
Russian economy still doing stellar.

https://x.com/delfoo/status/1908102273646928378?t=GnSCs_2gFvcuSNk9clg6JA&s=19

Silver lining of global tariffs, price of oil just dropped like $10/barrel while Russia can't come close to paying the bills with what its selling now.

Poundwise

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5165 on: April 16, 2025, 11:56:33 AM »
Haven't seen much about this in the news... is it real and is there anything interesting?
"Hacking group Anonymous says it has pulled off a massive cyberattack on Russia, releasing 10 terabytes of leaked data online."

https://bsky.app/profile/youranoncentral.bsky.social/post/3lmvbpc66qc2j

https://www.ladbible.com/news/world-news/anonymous-cyberattack-russia-100-terabytes-data-leaked-965626-20250416

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5166 on: April 16, 2025, 02:45:02 PM »
Haven't seen much about this in the news... is it real and is there anything interesting?
"Hacking group Anonymous says it has pulled off a massive cyberattack on Russia, releasing 10 terabytes of leaked data online."

https://bsky.app/profile/youranoncentral.bsky.social/post/3lmvbpc66qc2j

https://www.ladbible.com/news/world-news/anonymous-cyberattack-russia-100-terabytes-data-leaked-965626-20250416
Yay!  .....but what does it actually accomplish?

All I've heard lately is:
--Russia has opened a new offensive
--Ukraine has been pushed out of Kursk
--Russia hasn't really had any other gains
--Russia is still suffering 1100-1500 casualties/day, totalling ~936k so far.  In a couple months, they'll hit the million-casualty mark.  Not that it matters

Travis

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5167 on: April 18, 2025, 10:54:31 AM »

LennStar

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5168 on: April 19, 2025, 12:28:59 AM »
Surprise, surprise!


In other news, Ukraine has - as far as I know - done the first real war drone shootdowns using a laser gun.

You can see that in this video at about 2:30.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdSEb-eyiGw



Travis

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5169 on: April 19, 2025, 11:56:00 AM »
Putin announced an Easter ceasefire for the weekend - and broke it immediately.

https://fixupx.com/maxseddon/status/1913601325209694213

https://fixupx.com/christopherjm/status/1913606850748022984

In better news, both sides just completed a prisoner swap of hundreds

https://apnews.com/3c940cf913f22eb21803841b4d026db8

https://x.com/ap/status/1913617172561043541

Travis

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5170 on: April 21, 2025, 11:46:53 AM »
Rubio presenting a list of possible things Ukraine could surrender as a starting point for negotiations. He says if the US delegation can't get its foot in the door on something, then they may just give up entirely.

In the history of this conflict, Trump has never implied, asked, or demanded that Russia give up anything to end this war.

https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/kyiv-is-on-the-clock-to-respond-to-trump-plan-to-end-ukraine-conflict-f3538799

https://archive.li/pvvCM#selection-2717.0-2717.338

ChpBstrd

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5171 on: April 21, 2025, 12:43:01 PM »
Well, we know one thing.

The administration is NOT "moving on" from negotiations. We know this because they said they'd walk away from negotiations.

I wonder what leverage the US has to even keep Ukraine at the negotiating table? US sanctions against Ukraine? My understanding is there's no aid left to cut, and there's no way they'll trust Russia to keep any truce. So any give-away agreement is a worse prospect than continuing to fight because an agreement will bring neither military aid nor safety from Russia.

Ukraine should just post a couple of diplomats to argue against the US/Russian axis as a PR gesture, but that's it. Nothing to do but kick the can down the road and hope for the arrival of European military help.

Meanwhile, Ukraine needs to be shuffling financial assets away from vulnerability to possible US sanctions, and hide it in friendly countries like Poland, France, or Czechia in multi-layered shell corporations. Then, hope against all hope that these countries will refuse to cooperate with Trump's sanctions and asset seizures. US sanctions are coming as soon as Trump can blame Ukraine for failure of the peace talks. Maybe within weeks.

Travis

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5172 on: April 23, 2025, 11:22:00 AM »
US pulled out of negotiations after Ukraine balked at being told to recognize Russian ownership of Crimea as a starting point to negotiations. Russia still hasn't been asked to do anything.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/ukraine-talks-rubio-witkoff-london-putin-zelenskyy-trump-russia-war-rcna202525

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-western-countries-meet-russia-war-diplomats-say-breakthrough-unlikely-2025-04-23/

dividendman

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5173 on: April 24, 2025, 10:03:26 AM »
Don't worry guys, Trump told Putin to "Stop!" On his social media. Problem solved.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5174 on: April 24, 2025, 11:10:04 AM »
Don't worry guys, Trump told Putin to "Stop!" On his social media. Problem solved.
Chapter 2:
Trump sends Musk to Moscow to negotiate peace. Instead he negotiates a state-subsidized Tesla factory. Trump drops sanctions and tariffs on Russia, and we all start driving Russian-made Teslas.

dividendman

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5175 on: April 24, 2025, 07:19:18 PM »
Don't worry guys, Trump told Putin to "Stop!" On his social media. Problem solved.
Chapter 2:
Trump sends Musk to Moscow to negotiate peace. Instead he negotiates a state-subsidized Tesla factory. Trump drops sanctions and tariffs on Russia, and we all start driving Russian-made Teslas.

Well, Trump now says "things will happen" if Russia doesn't stop. So we're in the clear for sure.

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5176 on: April 25, 2025, 06:05:01 AM »
Surprise, surprise!


In other news, Ukraine has - as far as I know - done the first real war drone shootdowns using a laser gun.

You can see that in this video at about 2:30.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdSEb-eyiGw

You can add "&t=145s" to start a video 145 seconds in (2 minutes 25 seconds).  Looks like nobody has photographed it in combat action, yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdSEb-eyiGw&t=145s


Don't worry guys, Trump told Putin to "Stop!" On his social media. Problem solved.
Do I need to return to twitter so I can post "#brave" ?
To be fair, European politicians are guilty of similar talk without action.  Russia used cluster munitions, and it didn't even interrupt the news cycle.

LennStar

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5177 on: April 25, 2025, 08:43:50 AM »

Don't worry guys, Trump told Putin to "Stop!" On his social media. Problem solved.
Do I need to return to twitter so I can post "#brave" ?
To be fair, European politicians are guilty of similar talk without action.  Russia used cluster munitions, and it didn't even interrupt the news cycle.
Why should it? Not the first time. And no surprise at all, since Russia never entered the treaty that they would not use cluster munitions. Why should that make news?

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5178 on: April 27, 2025, 05:34:32 AM »

Don't worry guys, Trump told Putin to "Stop!" On his social media. Problem solved.
Do I need to return to twitter so I can post "#brave" ?
To be fair, European politicians are guilty of similar talk without action.  Russia used cluster munitions, and it didn't even interrupt the news cycle.
Why should it? Not the first time. And no surprise at all, since Russia never entered the treaty that they would not use cluster munitions. Why should that make news?
Apparently I'm about 2 years behind, in that Russia used cluster munitions back in March 2022.

LennStar

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5179 on: April 27, 2025, 07:04:05 AM »

Don't worry guys, Trump told Putin to "Stop!" On his social media. Problem solved.
Do I need to return to twitter so I can post "#brave" ?
To be fair, European politicians are guilty of similar talk without action.  Russia used cluster munitions, and it didn't even interrupt the news cycle.
Why should it? Not the first time. And no surprise at all, since Russia never entered the treaty that they would not use cluster munitions. Why should that make news?
Apparently I'm about 2 years behind, in that Russia used cluster munitions back in March 2022.
And I am pretty sure they used it in e.g. Syria too.

There was a bit of grumbling when Ukraine started to use them in 2023(?), but they also never signed the treaty. And of course not using a certain type of munition because it is dangerous to civilians after the war is a bit of a luxury point when the army you use it on is cruise missiling your supermarkets, and everyone recognized that. 

Travis

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5180 on: April 30, 2025, 03:40:34 PM »
Ukraine and US sign mineral and investment deal.

Some highlights:

https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/us-ukraine-minerals-deal-ukraine-approves-1746045489.html

mtnrider

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5181 on: April 30, 2025, 04:45:40 PM »
Ukraine and US sign mineral and investment deal.

Some highlights:

https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/us-ukraine-minerals-deal-ukraine-approves-1746045489.html

Nothing here about NATO membership?

Travis

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5182 on: April 30, 2025, 04:53:29 PM »
Ukraine and US sign mineral and investment deal.

Some highlights:

https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/news/us-ukraine-minerals-deal-ukraine-approves-1746045489.html

Nothing here about NATO membership?

Nope. Was never the topic of that particular deal. This isn't a peace treaty. It's an investment agreement between Ukraine and the US

reeshau

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5183 on: April 30, 2025, 06:14:24 PM »
I think a key idea for Ukraine is that a lot of the minerals are in territories Russia is occupying.  So, the US has a selfish reason to kick Russia out.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/mapped-ukraines-mineral-resources/

I imagine such a thing being warped by Trump to mean he will look for the same or a better deal from Russia, for those same minerals.

Travis

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5184 on: May 01, 2025, 11:02:08 AM »

Fru-Gal

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5185 on: May 01, 2025, 11:32:25 AM »
Zelenskyy is smart enough to see what needs to be done to win over Trump. All it takes is flattery and alone time.

Travis

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5186 on: May 01, 2025, 11:42:11 AM »
Zelenskyy is smart enough to see what needs to be done to win over Trump. All it takes is flattery and alone time.

And the tariff drama shows that he can be worn down by time.

dividendman

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5187 on: May 01, 2025, 12:21:42 PM »
Zelenskyy is smart enough to see what needs to be done to win over Trump. All it takes is flattery and alone time.

And the tariff drama shows that he can be worn down by time.

Yep, as long as you know that Trump has no principles, convictions or morals, except maybe to make himself look good, you can manipulate him.

big_owl

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5188 on: May 03, 2025, 07:49:04 AM »
I think a key idea for Ukraine is that a lot of the minerals are in territories Russia is occupying.  So, the US has a selfish reason to kick Russia out.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/mapped-ukraines-mineral-resources/

I imagine such a thing being warped by Trump to mean he will look for the same or a better deal from Russia, for those same minerals.

Anyone over the age of say, 30, or thereabouts has no excuse in the US not to understand what is happening here.  Even less if you were of age during the lead up to the Iraq war (this is a figurative you, not literally you).

There is a strong parallel here to the often quoted "curse of oil rich nations".  In the case of oil, it's too easy and too much of a temptation to just exploit the effectively free money you can print by selling oil and you end up with dictators and corruption and lack of effort into developing your society for the better good - see pretty much every country who relies on oil exports for the bulk of their income for examples.

Something similar can be said for countries with a large defense industry.  It's so easy to boost GDP and provide stealth stimulus just by manufacturing and selling weapons.  A patriot missile system is worth literally a billion dollars and supports high paying jobs to all the people designing and manufacturing it, and of course this all trickles down to other workers in the economy.  The problem is that unlike say, a billion dollar dollar power plant, it doesn't really provide any real utility to the citizens - especially if it's just sold or given to another country.  But it's "easy", and like oil, the temptation is just too high to press the easy button. 

Which brings us to Trump.  He campaigned on ending the war.  But that would cut off the easy button so anybody with half a brain knew that this wasn't going to happen.  Both parties like the easy button too much.  So Trump needed cover to keep the easy money flowing while being able to save face on reversing course on his campaign promise.  Enter the mineral agreement.  This whole thing is a boondoggle, we all know that.  But it allows trump to keep the MIC gravy train alive under the guise that "but look, Ukraine is going to pay us all for it through minerals!"...some time in the distant future when Trump is long gone.  Which of course really means never, but it'll all be long forgotten by then. 

The question is how the Russians plan for this eventuality.  Hard to say at this point.  The Russians are generally pretty pragmatic but if they genuinely thought the US was going to cut off weapons flow to Ukraine then the bluff just got called, so we have to see what comes next. 
« Last Edit: May 03, 2025, 09:02:55 AM by big_owl »

rocketpj

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5189 on: May 04, 2025, 10:28:03 AM »
The Russians are generally pretty pragmatic but if they genuinely thought the US was going to cut off weapons flow to Ukraine then the bluff just got called, so we have to see what comes next.

Russians may be fairly pragmatic, but nothing about this stupid invasion has been anything like pragmatic.  For the expense of the war they could have bought everything they wanted from Ukraine for the next century.  This war is 100% ill-advised. 

Even if Russia were to suddenly achieve some kind of breakthrough and capture Kiev, they wouldn't be able to pacify Ukraine.  The Nazis couldn't do it and they left mountains of skulls.  The balance of technology at this time means the cost of occupying a country that doesn't want to be occupied far exceeds the benefit of possession.  Sooner or later the invaders go home, even if it takes years.

The US, the most powerful military in the history of the species, was unable to hold Afghanistan for any length of time.  Ditto Iraq or Vietnam.  Ukraine is bigger, more developed and better connected than any of those places. 

I just wish the Russian leadership would be 'pragmatic' and realize this without having to kill a million people first.

Dancin'Dog

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5190 on: May 05, 2025, 11:21:01 AM »
The Russians are generally pretty pragmatic but if they genuinely thought the US was going to cut off weapons flow to Ukraine then the bluff just got called, so we have to see what comes next.

Russians may be fairly pragmatic, but nothing about this stupid invasion has been anything like pragmatic.  For the expense of the war they could have bought everything they wanted from Ukraine for the next century.  This war is 100% ill-advised. 

Even if Russia were to suddenly achieve some kind of breakthrough and capture Kiev, they wouldn't be able to pacify Ukraine.  The Nazis couldn't do it and they left mountains of skulls.  The balance of technology at this time means the cost of occupying a country that doesn't want to be occupied far exceeds the benefit of possession.  Sooner or later the invaders go home, even if it takes years.

The US, the most powerful military in the history of the species, was unable to hold Afghanistan for any length of time.  Ditto Iraq or Vietnam.  Ukraine is bigger, more developed and better connected than any of those places. 

I just wish the Russian leadership would be 'pragmatic' and realize this without having to kill a million people first.


Russian leadership is the target that would prevent a million people from dying.  Nothing else will stop the war.

Travis

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5191 on: May 16, 2025, 11:12:23 AM »
Ukrainian and Russian delegations are in Turkey talking peace. Supposedly they agreed to exchange 1000 POWs,; however, the Russian rep also said "I hope you all lose more loved ones...we're going to annex eight provinces and not just four...we'll fight forever."

https://www.reuters.com/world/russia-ukraine-hold-first-direct-peace-talks-over-3-years-2025-05-16/

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2025/05/16/7512573/

dividendman

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5192 on: June 01, 2025, 02:29:26 PM »
Quite the strike Ukraine accomplished today... Crazy range on all the airfields thousands of miles from Ukraine.

LaineyAZ

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5193 on: June 02, 2025, 07:21:41 AM »
Quite the strike Ukraine accomplished today... Crazy range on all the airfields thousands of miles from Ukraine.

I always wonder if these types of unexpected successful strikes will enrage the Russians and strengthen their resolve to keep going, or if it gives them pause to consider pulling back. 

Either way, the Ukrainians have defended themselves against invasion by a military superpower for over 2 1/2 years, basically fighting them to a standstill, something many people would not have predicted. 

reeshau

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5194 on: June 02, 2025, 09:57:34 AM »
Quite the strike Ukraine accomplished today... Crazy range on all the airfields thousands of miles from Ukraine.

I always wonder if these types of unexpected successful strikes will enrage the Russians and strengthen their resolve to keep going, or if it gives them pause to consider pulling back. 

Either way, the Ukrainians have defended themselves against invasion by a military superpower for over 2 1/2 years, basically fighting them to a standstill, something many people would not have predicted.

I think it was an excellent strategic move, not to mention a ballsy special operation.

Until now, these assets were viewed as untouchable by Ukraine, so they struck with impunity.  Now, they have vulnerabilities, and assets have to be used to defend them.  To whatever extent land-based alternatives are now used more, those are strikable, or very expensive (hypersonic) and limited in supply.

Also, this was about 1/3 of their nuclear bomber fleet.  They will be at a strategic disadvantage, when they rattle the nuclear saber.

Unlike tanks, the stockpile from the 1950's was still in use!  There is no replacement but building new, which will again draw resources from other military equipment that Russia might want to build.

The price tag for continuing the war just went up, the day before "negotiations" resume.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5195 on: June 02, 2025, 11:10:09 AM »
From what I've heard, Russia doesn't have the capability to rebuild their bomber fleet, period.  Much of their assets are Soviet era equipment, and most of the best of that was developed/built...in Ukraine, back in the day.

It will be very interesting to see how this affects Russians tempo of cruise missile launches. Sure, they may have just lost 1/3 of their fleet, but the other 2/3 is still very much there, and my impression is that their sortie rate has been limited as much by their missile production capacity as by their bomber combat readiness.

Travis

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5196 on: June 02, 2025, 11:12:42 AM »
They've also been leaning more heavily on the Shaheds, launching hundreds per raid.

Ceasefire talks continue to go nowhere as Russian demands haven't changed since March 2022. It's still "give us everything we've ever wanted, and we'll think about a ceasefire." Until Ukraine starts retaking its own territory or Russia starts running out of troops, the latter isn't going to budge.

reeshau

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5197 on: June 02, 2025, 11:51:01 AM »
From what I've heard, Russia doesn't have the capability to rebuild their bomber fleet, period.  Much of their assets are Soviet era equipment, and most of the best of that was developed/built...in Ukraine, back in the day.

It will be very interesting to see how this affects Russians tempo of cruise missile launches. Sure, they may have just lost 1/3 of their fleet, but the other 2/3 is still very much there, and my impression is that their sortie rate has been limited as much by their missile production capacity as by their bomber combat readiness.

Yeah, the last Blackjack was built in 1992, but the internet says production is "restarting."

Also, the estimated readiness of the Russian air force is only 30-40%.  At that rate, I presume that some of the hits may have been on inactive / inoperable aircraft.  But given the length of planning, I would also expect some recon on functional machines, where the strikes have been launched from.  Also, given the production status, eliminating donor airframes is not a total waste, either.

rocketpj

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5198 on: June 02, 2025, 06:54:51 PM »
Right now every airforce in the world is looking nervously at its air bases and gazillion dollar airplanes and wondering how to protect them from swarms of hundred dollar drones.

I suspect this will be like the bombing of Pearl Harbor - those who were paying attention realized it was the end of Dreadnoughts and Battleships, and the beginning of Carrier based warfare.  All those battleships were just expensive targets. 

How many $1000 or $10,000 drones would it take to destroy a Billion dollar stealth bomber?  How many $100 drones?  Suddenly bases thousands of kilometers from the front aren't safe anymore, and will require significant retrofitting to make them drone proof.

Fru-Gal

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #5199 on: June 02, 2025, 10:27:34 PM »
Right now every airforce in the world is looking nervously at its air bases and gazillion dollar airplanes and wondering how to protect them from swarms of hundred dollar drones.

I suspect this will be like the bombing of Pearl Harbor - those who were paying attention realized it was the end of Dreadnoughts and Battleships, and the beginning of Carrier based warfare.  All those battleships were just expensive targets. 

How many $1000 or $10,000 drones would it take to destroy a Billion dollar stealth bomber?  How many $100 drones?  Suddenly bases thousands of kilometers from the front aren't safe anymore, and will require significant retrofitting to make them drone proof.

This is also why the unexplained, “uninteresting” to the media, drone incursions on military bases in the US, all over New Jersey, and around US ships — all documented over the last 10 years or so, and described as commercial quad-copter-sized — are perplexing.

The US government’s official response to the New Jersey drone flap this past December was “it’s not foreign, we don’t know what it is, but it’s nothing to worry about.” Trump said he’d reveal the answer after the election. His spox, Leavitt, declared in January or so that “they were FAA-approved test flights”:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/not-enemy-white-house-says-195725699.html

Could these latest drone flights have been Anduril test drones? No one knows, not even, apparently, the military.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2025, 10:29:49 PM by Fru-Gal »

 

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