Author Topic: Ukraine  (Read 772371 times)

LennStar

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4850 on: December 03, 2024, 10:19:47 AM »
As long as the CIA is not involved! They have a track record of failing. A strong series of either couping unsuccessfully or couping their 20 year alter number 1 enemy into power.


btw. South Korea is currently couping too, I am just not sure who against who. The president against the people?

ChpBstrd

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4851 on: December 03, 2024, 10:23:33 AM »
btw. South Korea is currently couping too, I am just not sure who against who. The president against the people?
I saw that! But it appears parliament is at least against the president's actions. Let's see if they can impeach him.

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/south-korea-president-yoon-declares-martial-law-2024-12-03/

Just another reminder that democracies are fragile, and can only exist to the extent the people participate and believe in their form of government.

cerat0n1a

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4852 on: December 04, 2024, 01:15:11 AM »
Some evidence of foreign intelligence involvement in the campaign against Russia/Iran/Assad in Syria:
Militia backed by Turkey run part of the country, Kurdish militia control another part. Neither of them like each other, neither like Assad & Iran's proxies. None of them like the IS/Al-Qaeda fundamentalists (although HTS, who have taken Aleppo, are trying to downplay their previous Islamist connections). No surprise if Turkey was holding its nose and helping one of the rebel groups, particularly with both Russia & Iran otherwise occupied. Very much doubt any other NATO country had any involvement.

PeteD01

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4853 on: December 04, 2024, 04:44:35 AM »
Some evidence of foreign intelligence involvement in the campaign against Russia/Iran/Assad in Syria:
Militia backed by Turkey run part of the country, Kurdish militia control another part. Neither of them like each other, neither like Assad & Iran's proxies. None of them like the IS/Al-Qaeda fundamentalists (although HTS, who have taken Aleppo, are trying to downplay their previous Islamist connections). No surprise if Turkey was holding its nose and helping one of the rebel groups, particularly with both Russia & Iran otherwise occupied. Very much doubt any other NATO country had any involvement.

Ukraine?

LennStar

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4854 on: December 04, 2024, 06:24:36 AM »
Some evidence of foreign intelligence involvement in the campaign against Russia/Iran/Assad in Syria:
Militia backed by Turkey run part of the country, Kurdish militia control another part. Neither of them like each other, neither like Assad & Iran's proxies. None of them like the IS/Al-Qaeda fundamentalists (although HTS, who have taken Aleppo, are trying to downplay their previous Islamist connections). No surprise if Turkey was holding its nose and helping one of the rebel groups, particularly with both Russia & Iran otherwise occupied. Very much doubt any other NATO country had any involvement.

Ukraine?
That is what the Russian defense minister says, so it's extremely unlikely. (Also Ukraine is not NATO, to their disappointment.)

But even if true - the only one who could complain about that is Assad. Russia? LOL

----

As expected Ukraine has retreated from Kurakove town and I would be surprised if the same does not happen to the string of villages south of it inside this week, before they are cut off.

Pokrovsk direction again has lost some territory, but it has slowed down due to the mud season and the defense line.

PeteD01

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4855 on: December 04, 2024, 07:06:00 AM »
Some evidence of foreign intelligence involvement in the campaign against Russia/Iran/Assad in Syria:
Militia backed by Turkey run part of the country, Kurdish militia control another part. Neither of them like each other, neither like Assad & Iran's proxies. None of them like the IS/Al-Qaeda fundamentalists (although HTS, who have taken Aleppo, are trying to downplay their previous Islamist connections). No surprise if Turkey was holding its nose and helping one of the rebel groups, particularly with both Russia & Iran otherwise occupied. Very much doubt any other NATO country had any involvement.

Ukraine?
That is what the Russian defense minister says, so it's extremely unlikely. (Also Ukraine is not NATO, to their disappointment.)

But even if true - the only one who could complain about that is Assad. Russia? LOL

----

I'm not suggesting that Ukraine is a NATO country. In any case, in a situation like in Syria, NATO countries might be involved without it being NATO involvement (like Turkey is doing) - if that makes any sense.

I´ve also seen occasional reports of Ukrainian activities in Syria for several months now.

EXCLUSIVE VIDEO: Ukrainian Special Forces and Syrian Rebels Decimate Russian Mercenaries in Syria
An exclusive video obtained by Kyiv Post shows Ukrainian HUR special forces attacking enemy checkpoints, strongholds, foot patrols, and convoys of military equipment in the Golan Heights of Syria.
by Kateryna Zakharchenko | June 3, 2024

Exclusive videos obtained by Kyiv Post from sources within Ukraine’s Military Intelligence Directorate (HUR) show Ukrainian special forces and Syrian rebels destroying Russian mercenaries in Syria. The video is dated March 2024.

The HUR special squad “Khimik,” in collaboration with the Syrian opposition, is attacking Russian mercenaries fighting alongside the Bashar al-Assad regime in Syria.


https://www.kyivpost.com/post/33695

BicycleB

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4856 on: December 04, 2024, 11:57:48 AM »
Ukraine isn't just occupying Russian forces by holding Kursk, it's been sending special forces to Syria to fight Russians there? Is that a plausible allocation of resources?

ChpBstrd

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4857 on: December 04, 2024, 12:06:25 PM »
Ukraine isn't just occupying Russian forces by holding Kursk, it's been sending special forces to Syria to fight Russians there? Is that a plausible allocation of resources?
Ukrainians are also fighting in Russian colonies in Africa. The idea is to:

1) cut off supplies of gold and other materials, and
2) prevent the Kremlin from being able to reallocate troops from those regions.

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4858 on: December 04, 2024, 12:30:57 PM »
That’s starting to sound more like a world war and less like a regional territory dispute (which is a war to the people there, of course).

LennStar

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4859 on: December 04, 2024, 01:06:09 PM »
Well, Putin basially wants a world war without the world.

Ukraine isn't just occupying Russian forces by holding Kursk, it's been sending special forces to Syria to fight Russians there? Is that a plausible allocation of resources?
Depending on te troops, yes, very much.
If those "special forces" are guerilla warfare trained, then sending them to the Ukraine front would not do much, it would be waste of resources.
Sending them into Russia makes probably less damage than in Syria, while being a LOT more dangerous. On the other hand, if they give the Syrian rebels capabilities they don't have, that makes the U units there a lot more dangerous than they would be in Russia alone.

The right tool for the job. If you don't have a job for your tool, look for one ;) I mean Russia could also use Wagners in Ukraine, right? But they are in Afrika.

BicycleB

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4860 on: December 04, 2024, 01:24:51 PM »
Ukraine isn't just occupying Russian forces by holding Kursk, it's been sending special forces to Syria to fight Russians there? Is that a plausible allocation of resources?
Ukrainians are also fighting in Russian colonies in Africa. The idea is to:

1) cut off supplies of gold and other materials, and
2) prevent the Kremlin from being able to reallocate troops from those regions.

Ok. Wow, broader than I realized.

Russia's incursions into Africa for minerals and influence I knew about; agree re supplies. Syria adds to understanding the confusing-to-me Middle East; thanks. Sounds like valid connections.

Radagast

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PeteD01

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4862 on: December 06, 2024, 01:51:03 PM »
There are the first reports of Russia evacuating military assets from Syria in anticipation of abandoning the last two remaining military bases in Syria.

If true, Assad is finished and Russia has received a massive material loss as these bases were vital for maintaining logistical support for regional and African operations.

In addition, Russia has received a devastating reputational loss:


BREAKING: Russian Forces LEAVE Syria; Assad Regime COLLAPSES, Syria FALLS to Rebels | Enforcer News

The Russian backed Bashar Al-Assad regime is witnessing it's final hours as the Syrian Arab Army is in full retreat, allowing rebel forces to advance unopposed. Russian forces are travelling to Tartus to leave Syria for the final time in the civil war. Meanwhile SDF, HTS (Syrian Salvation Government), and FSA forces are now advancing. The Druze settlements south of Damascus are now uprising, a blow that the Syrian government could never possibly deal with. Key members of the Syrian government are fleeing, and Assad will be boarding a plane to leave Syria for the last time. Meanwhile Russia is heavily sanctioning Abkhazia, and Iran is now producing weapons grade uranium as the news of Syrian collapse looms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRxzuw-Izo4

ChpBstrd

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4863 on: December 06, 2024, 04:29:29 PM »
I'm not seeing anything like that YouTube video in mainstream news sources. It could be a forecast of the future or might end up being nothing.

But it is interesting to hear about Syrian army forces failing to fight, or fleeting. It brings back memories of the U.S's misadventures in Afghanistan.

Russia in Syria, like the U.S. in Afghanistan, had a plan to draft locals to fight in exchange for paychecks. But such people are rarely motivated to die for their colonizers.

PeteD01

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4864 on: December 06, 2024, 04:44:24 PM »
I'm not seeing anything like that YouTube video in mainstream news sources. It could be a forecast of the future or might end up being nothing.

...

US mainstream media won't cover this simply because most consumers of US mainstream media wouldn't even know what they're talking about.

The BBC has a take on it though:

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn0x169enp4o

LaineyAZ

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4865 on: December 06, 2024, 05:33:40 PM »
Assad is absolutely evil.  If he's fleeing I wonder which country will take him and his family in?

LennStar

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4866 on: December 07, 2024, 01:46:37 AM »
Assad is absolutely evil.  If he's fleeing I wonder which country will take him and his family in?
I thought he was in Russia since day 1 of the attack? Only for prior scheduled talks of course.


Quote
I'm not seeing anything like that YouTube video in mainstream news sources.
It' there, at least here, though at the moment everything is clouded in the fog of war, so there is not much about it.
For example Homs: Military has left, but Assads militia is still there is the report from civilian sources. Daraa (province) is 80% under control of the rebels, military and rebels have agreed to non-fighting retreat towards Damaskus. Israel fears that the rebels may also try to take back the Golan hights. 


Meanwhile Romania has to re-do the presidential elections due to too much Russian interference in the "hybrid war".
« Last Edit: December 07, 2024, 01:56:04 AM by LennStar »

BicycleB

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4867 on: December 07, 2024, 05:07:59 AM »
I'm not seeing anything like that YouTube video in mainstream news sources. It could be a forecast of the future or might end up being nothing.

...

US mainstream media won't cover this simply because most consumers of US mainstream media wouldn't even know what they're talking about.

The BBC has a take on it though:

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn0x169enp4o

Nice link

PeteD01

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4868 on: December 07, 2024, 05:12:53 AM »
I'm not seeing anything like that YouTube video in mainstream news sources. It could be a forecast of the future or might end up being nothing.

But it is interesting to hear about Syrian army forces failing to fight, or fleeting. It brings back memories of the U.S's misadventures in Afghanistan.

Russia in Syria, like the U.S. in Afghanistan, had a plan to draft locals to fight in exchange for paychecks. But such people are rarely motivated to die for their colonizers.

Now CNN has published a somewhat outdated overview:


What the Syrian rebellion could mean for the balance of power in the Middle East
By Mostafa Salem
Sat December 7, 2024

Global stakeholders now have to reckon with the geopolitical impact of a rebel offensive led by an Islamist group in Syria that could potentially threaten President Bashar al-Assad’s hold over the country.

Syrian rebels have made a lightning advance in the north of the country, taking two major cities: Aleppo, the second biggest city, and Hama, a strategically important city that lies on a vital supply route. The rebels are saying they’ll advance further south to Homs, just over 100 miles from the Syrian capital of Damascus.


https://www.cnn.com/2024/12/07/world/syria-rebellion-middle-east-power-explainer-intl/index.html

Radagast

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4869 on: December 07, 2024, 09:11:49 AM »
Looks like it's over for the Assad people. Assad was too weak to do much damage outside his own country, may this spread to Russia soon.

cerat0n1a

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4870 on: December 07, 2024, 10:28:45 AM »
Assad is absolutely evil.  If he's fleeing I wonder which country will take him and his family in?
His family has run probably the world's largest drugs cartel (selling Captagon) for some years. I'm sure there will be plenty of places willing to help look after his money.

cerat0n1a

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4871 on: December 07, 2024, 11:24:00 AM »
BBC reporting that Damascus is falling to the rebels.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cwy8xzxe0w7t

Poundwise

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4872 on: December 07, 2024, 07:02:37 PM »
This reporter is posting videos of prisoners freed from Saydnaya prison:
https://bsky.app/profile/ramijarrah.bsky.social/post/3lcr462acg22y

Radagast

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4873 on: December 07, 2024, 10:53:24 PM »
Relevant: I've just been rereading The Black Swan, whose author Taleb is from Lebanon and whose inspiration he said to have started from watching the geopolitics of the region and observing that nobody appeared to have any ability to predict events. It was of course then tempered by a huge education and years of working on Wall Street, and emerged something of a blend of math and philosophy. Pretty good read for these times.

LennStar

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4874 on: December 08, 2024, 12:31:40 AM »
Damascus has fallen or is at least completely surrounded and the soldiers there are ahem... going undercover by leaving behind weapons and uniforms and donning civil gear.

It's going so fast that some say Assads airplane has crsuhed while a Syrian general on twitter says they are still fighting hundreds of kilometers behind the frontline.

On the bad side that means that 2 dozen Russian airplanes will be relocated to Ukraine.

LennStar

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4875 on: December 08, 2024, 01:42:22 PM »
It's now confirmed that Assad+family is in Russia. Asylum, for humanitarian reasons. You have to admit that, Putin has a sense of humor.

I wonder if Assad will join the troops in Ukraine. But I guess Putin doesn't want to fight against the IS&Co in Ukraine too.

Travis

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4876 on: December 08, 2024, 03:19:03 PM »
It's now confirmed that Assad+family is in Russia. Asylum, for humanitarian reasons. You have to admit that, Putin has a sense of humor.

I wonder if Assad will join the troops in Ukraine. But I guess Putin doesn't want to fight against the IS&Co in Ukraine too.

The real sense of humor is reading anything coming from Lavrov this weekend. When Damascus was surrounded and Homs was falling, he said something like "we're open to discussing the peace plan of [some UN thing] along current frontlines" as if the rebels had any reason to allow Assad's forces a chance to regroup or retain part of the country (or that Russia has been in any position for the last year to affect the outcome).  Today it was "Assad authorized a peaceful transition of power and we facilitated it."

The fate of the Russian naval and airbase in Syria is still murky. I've seen reports that they've been ordered to leave by HTS, that they've started to, but also that it still hasn't been decided. Russia didn't have a lot left in the region except for a handful of ships, aircraft, and air defense systems.

reeshau

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4877 on: December 08, 2024, 04:54:12 PM »
Russia didn't have a lot left in the region except for a handful of ships, aircraft, and air defense systems.

Records of atrocities committed on Assad's behalf.  Let's hope they are in too much of a hurry, or too worried, to set everything on fire.

PeteD01

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4878 on: December 08, 2024, 05:15:45 PM »
FYI - nothing confirmed but interesting nonetheless:


BREAKING: Russian Forces ABANDONED in Syria, Assad ESCAPES To Moscow
Enforcer News
Dec 8, 2024

Russian forces have been abandoned in Syria during its final hours, as Russia evacuates the equipment but not the troops of the Russian Federation. Syria has been completely consumed by Rebel forces as the sun began to rise this morning, the Russian bases of Tartus and Latakia are now under rebel control. Bashar Al-Assad surprisingly did survive the night, as his plane was shot down near Homs but he was not onboard. Assad is currently in Moscow where he will live the remainder of his days in exile, never to return home to Syria.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lpfMzzXEoc

ChpBstrd

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4879 on: December 09, 2024, 03:12:14 PM »
Here's a good interview with the leader of HTS, the Islamist rebel coalition that overthrew Assad. The interview was conducted before the regime fell. He sounds quite reasonable in his talk (with a female journalist) about institution-building, moderate rule, legal frameworks to protect all sects, and the dissolution of HTS after a governing system is established. Regarding his designation as a terrorist, and the $10M U.S. bounty on his head, he describes his affiliation with jihadist groups like ISIS and Al Quaeda as a "phase" necessitated by circumstances, and the terrorist designation as a political label rather than an accurate description of anything he has done. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tLBPbEXScA

YttriumNitrate

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4880 on: December 10, 2024, 05:59:16 AM »
Here's a good interview with the leader of HTS, the Islamist rebel coalition that overthrew Assad. The interview was conducted before the regime fell. He sounds quite reasonable in his talk (with a female journalist) about institution-building, moderate rule, legal frameworks to protect all sects, and the dissolution of HTS after a governing system is established.

That interview certainly had a familiar ring to it:

Quote
He said the group wanted private media to "remain independent," but stressed journalists "should not work against national values."

Quote
[We are ready to] provide women with environment to work and study, and the presence of women in different (government) structures according to Islamic law and in accordance with our cultural values," he said.

Quote
In another sign of the ...efforts to portray a new image, a female television anchor on the private broadcaster Tolo interviewed a... official on camera Tuesday in a studio — an interaction that once would have been unthinkable.
https://www.npr.org/2021/08/17/1028391403/afghanistan-women-taliban-government

Radagast

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4881 on: December 10, 2024, 08:44:11 PM »
Updates:
Ukraine gets $50B. Between this, remaining US aid (if Biden delivers), and European aid they will likely be able to get through 2025 at a similar level to 2023-2024 even if Trump decides he likes Putin more than the all that BS the US has stood for up til now.
https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy2744

First Russian tank storage base is completely emptied out:
https://x.com/Rebel44CZ/status/1866613035047194788

Ukraine now using "cruise missile drones":
https://x.com/igorsushko/status/1866630028496343043

Seems that Russia has been given an eviction notice in Syria:
https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1866629989200019732

LennStar

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4882 on: December 12, 2024, 02:39:25 PM »
The Ukrainian sea drones "Sea Baby" have evolved a lot in the last months.

They are no longer just a vehicle to deliver spicy packets, they now have a machine gun on them, which came as quite a shock to Russian helicopters, but also a FPV drone for after work assessment or pre strike recon.

I don't think China will like that.

reeshau

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4883 on: December 12, 2024, 04:11:35 PM »
@LennStar , your last post made me think: however this conflict ends, I can imagine Ukraine becoming a significant military exporter.  Given all they have learned and demonstrated as effective in the field, selling their know-how can bring in capital to rebuild.  And even though they likely need to significantly build up their forces for the next attempt by Russia, increasing their volume will lower their costs.

Travis

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4884 on: December 12, 2024, 11:08:15 PM »
Inflation up half a percent so far this month in Russia.

https://x.com/delfoo/status/1866932208281227406?s=33

Russia pulled that "buy my bond with my own money" trick discussed a couple weeks ago to balance next year's budget.

https://bsky.app/profile/oalexanderdk.bsky.social/post/3lcun3li4sc2b

@LennStar , your last post made me think: however this conflict ends, I can imagine Ukraine becoming a significant military exporter.  Given all they have learned and demonstrated as effective in the field, selling their know-how can bring in capital to rebuild.  And even though they likely need to significantly build up their forces for the next attempt by Russia, increasing their volume will lower their costs.

There's a few items that Ukraine is suited for that they will sell abroad (anti tank missiles, some drones, aircraft engines for Soviet-era machines if the factories are still standing). What's going to generate a lot of business is Ukraine as a customer in shared military enterprises. Rheinmetal, BAE, and others want to build full production lines inside Ukraine because their requirement for military equipment is equal to the rest of non-US NATO combined.

LennStar

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4885 on: December 13, 2024, 02:35:55 AM »
@LennStar , your last post made me think: however this conflict ends, I can imagine Ukraine becoming a significant military exporter.  Given all they have learned and demonstrated as effective in the field, selling their know-how can bring in capital to rebuild.  And even though they likely need to significantly build up their forces for the next attempt by Russia, increasing their volume will lower their costs.
That is part of their economical after-war strategy. Build for yourself and export a lot for money, like South Korea.
That lowers the cost for your own units while keeping a high production capacity ready if needed.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4886 on: December 13, 2024, 11:37:55 AM »
Then again, the Ukranians have endured almost 3 years of deprivation, inflation, loss of freedoms, conscription, and the deaths of loved ones. There might be a strong political will to exploit a peace dividend after a ceasefire, rather than remaining in a martial-law existential-threat wartime economy forever.

There would be political pressure to make up for shortages of things like housing, infrastructure, healthcare services, education, and the consumer economy. So I think a post-war Ukraine probably maintains high military spending compared to the rest of Europe, but diverts some amount of its government funding, labor, and resources toward rebuilding civilian life.

Their internal debates will be fierce. Russia and Putin are still there, regrouping their own military and developing new technologies like AI drones and ballistic missiles with EW capabilities for the next attack.

Ukraine will be in a much worse spot strategically, because their border with Russian-occupied land will be much longer than it was before the war and because they've lost so much of their agricultural and industrial resource base. U.S. political/military support is already gone and European NATO members will be urgently tending their own military affairs. Debt service will be a problem.

Hawks will argue that Ukraine must devote the bulk of its GDP to defending against the next inevitable invasion. Doves and much of the exhausted population will advocate for rebuilding. Hawks would ask what's the point of rebuilding civilian infrastructure for the Russians to bomb again in 2-3 years. Doves will ask what's the point of the last war if civilian life and culture will never be restored.

I'm guessing a compromise will land somewhere in the middle, as it always does in democracies with competing priorities. Ukraine will be a heavily militarized country for decades to come, if they survive the next invasion, but they will have to devote some resources to reconstruction and civilian interests. Any unemployment or financial slack in the civilian economy will be taken up by the military.

On the Russian side, they could become a North Korean style communist state on a permanent war footing. In 3-5 years their military will be rebuilt with the next generation of children aging into early adulthood. Those kids will build the tanks and trucks and drones in government factories, and then bring them into battle when they are drafted for the next round of war with Ukraine. This near-100% focus on war could put Russia at an advantage in the next phase of the invasion.

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4887 on: December 14, 2024, 09:51:18 AM »
Rebuilding Ukraine is estimated to be about a half a trillion dollars. Regardless of where one stands on guns or butter, it's going to require outside help.


Russia looking to reduce its active railcar fleet by 10% for want of cargo. Rail sidings are just piling up with unused cars. Also their maintenance backlog continues to increase due to sanctions and costs.

https://x.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1853532302749679746?t=KvsTSGSjnE2DFLr4R00j1g&s=19

Russian railroads asking retirees to come back to work because everybody enlisted or got called back to active duty.

https://x.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1867551633380397076

And the Central Bank may raise rates again next week

https://www.profinance.ru/news/2024/12/12/ceh7-20-dekabrya-tsb-podnimet-stavku-srazu-do-25-psb.html

LaineyAZ

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4888 on: December 15, 2024, 08:54:46 AM »
Since Putin is already 72 and there's been rumors about his health for many months, is there any insight on what his potential successor would do with Ukraine?

I'm hoping the Russian people are fed up with the Ukraine invasion enough that their next leader would back off and focus on Russia's domestic needs.  That would let each country rebuild as needed.  Is that wildly optimistic?

waltworks

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4889 on: December 15, 2024, 10:19:48 AM »
Wildly optimistic, yes.

Travis

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4890 on: December 15, 2024, 10:29:34 PM »
Since Putin is already 72 and there's been rumors about his health for many months, is there any insight on what his potential successor would do with Ukraine?

I'm hoping the Russian people are fed up with the Ukraine invasion enough that their next leader would back off and focus on Russia's domestic needs.  That would let each country rebuild as needed.  Is that wildly optimistic?

Funny thing about despots. They don't really let anyone know who their successor will be until the last minute in case that guy tries to get the job earlier than planned. If a million casualties from a war they don't need and an economy that is starting to resemble 1991 isn't enough to get the people to rebel, nothing will. They'll vote for who they're told to vote for and live with it. A Russian leader saying "I'm admitting defeat against the West and going to work on rebuilding the country in a way the West prefers" is a quick trip to the nearest window.

YttriumNitrate

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4891 on: December 16, 2024, 08:03:00 AM »
Since Putin is already 72 and there's been rumors about his health for many months, is there any insight on what his potential successor would do with Ukraine?

There have been Putin health rumors for the past few decades. We'll see if it is different this time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claims_of_Vladimir_Putin%27s_incapacity_and_death

markbike528CBX

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4892 on: December 16, 2024, 11:17:30 AM »
Since Putin is already 72 and there's been rumors about his health for many months, is there any insight on what his potential successor would do with Ukraine?

I'm hoping the Russian people are fed up with the Ukraine invasion enough that their next leader would back off and focus on Russia's domestic needs.  That would let each country rebuild as needed.  Is that wildly optimistic?
Funny thing about despots. They don't really let anyone know who their successor will be until the last minute in case that guy tries to get the job earlier than planned. If a million casualties from a war they don't need and an economy that is starting to resemble 1991 isn't enough to get the people to rebel, nothing will. They'll vote for who they're told to vote for and live with it. A Russian leader saying "I'm admitting defeat against the West and going to work on rebuilding the country in a way the West prefers" is a quick trip to the nearest window.
There is even a word for " quick trip to the nearest window". - Defenestration.   
I hadn't realized that one needed a word for it.  Then of course I looked it up, and it seems to be a thing for a long time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defenestrations_of_Prague.  TL;DR, 1419 and 1483.
The 1419 defenestration lead to the Hussite Wars till 1434, so just pushing people out a window may not solve anything.

reeshau

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4893 on: December 17, 2024, 06:20:32 PM »
BBC piece on the assassination of Lt Gen Igor Kirillov, head of the Nuclear, Biological, Chemical Defence Forces (NBC) this morning:

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czjdmgnj242o

Interesting comments from the reporter on everyday Russians' view of the war:

"This perception of Russia's war in Ukraine as something distant - I've heard that so often here. I get the sense that, for a considerable portion of the population, this is a war they only experience on their TV screen or on their smart phone. In many ways, a virtual war.

Astonishing, really, considering the large number of dead and wounded."

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4894 on: December 18, 2024, 05:47:23 AM »
"This perception of Russia's war in Ukraine as something distant - I've heard that so often here. I get the sense that, for a considerable portion of the population, this is a war they only experience on their TV screen or on their smart phone. In many ways, a virtual war.

Astonishing, really, considering the large number of dead and wounded."
It's worth pointing out that Russia has drawn their forces disproportionately from their outlying (and minority-dominated) areas, avoiding conscription from the wealthier (and white) Moscow and St. Petersburg areas.  The residents of Moscow/St. Pete have been significantly insulated from the war's effects, and for good reason--if they get unhappy, they can pose a greater threat to the current regime.

LennStar

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4895 on: December 18, 2024, 08:22:46 AM »
"This perception of Russia's war in Ukraine as something distant - I've heard that so often here. I get the sense that, for a considerable portion of the population, this is a war they only experience on their TV screen or on their smart phone. In many ways, a virtual war.

Astonishing, really, considering the large number of dead and wounded."
It's worth pointing out that Russia has drawn their forces disproportionately from their outlying (and minority-dominated) areas, avoiding conscription from the wealthier (and white) Moscow and St. Petersburg areas.  The residents of Moscow/St. Pete have been significantly insulated from the war's effects, and for good reason--if they get unhappy, they can pose a greater threat to the current regime.
Very much so.
There are more Buryats (and by today probably more "Buryats") that have been killed in Ukraine than Moscowites, despite Moscow having a dozen times more people than the whole region.

The poor from somewhere far away aren't a problem for a despot, it's the masses of slightly influential, better educated middle class people close to the center that actually run the state.
That is why despots rely on the military - not only because of the weapons, but also because it's a completely seperate chain of command, one that is NOT told to think and solve problems on their own, and mostly made up of people who are not from where they work.
Even the most brainwashed 18 year old will (generally) hesitate to shoot at his mother in the street. And conversely, a mother that lost 3 sons to the ambitions of a leader might find it worth to throw a molotov cocktail into the car of said leader when he comes by in front of her house.
Ever wondered why Egypt build the new capital far away from anyone into the desert? It's not just to waste money and make everything more complicated.

edit: One of my favorite stats is the straightness of roads from the palace to the nearest airport. The more despotic the country, the straighter the road.
Maybe I should have a look at Syria. What is the closest airport to Assads palace?

edit2: LOL
Admittedly it's not a straight road, but it's a freaking Highway directly from the palace entrance to the airport just a few kilometers away.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2024, 08:30:17 AM by LennStar »

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4896 on: December 18, 2024, 08:31:15 AM »
edit: One of my favorite stats is the straightness of roads from the palace to the nearest airport. The more despotic the country, the straighter the road.
Maybe I should have a look at Syria. What is the closest airport to Assads palace?
As it turns out, the Syrian Presidential palace is diametrically opposite the Damascus international airport.  However, there's a military airport a mere 2.5 miles as the crow flies from the presidential palace, and there's a rather nice, uncongested-looking road linking the two.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4897 on: December 19, 2024, 10:54:08 AM »
44.25km in the U.S, with a river crossing, compared to 5.2km in Syria. Maybe there's hope for us idiots after all.

Just Joe

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4898 on: December 19, 2024, 11:00:58 AM »
I assumed all leaders traveled by helicopters at least to the airport... I guess no chance of roadblocks but there are other kids of risks.

LennStar

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #4899 on: December 19, 2024, 12:22:14 PM »
I assumed all leaders traveled by helicopters at least to the airport... I guess no chance of roadblocks but there are other kids of risks.
Like drones, as Russians have learned.


Ukraine: As predicted by everyone, a few pockets on the south eastern front have closed in the last week, in at least one case leaving a 3-digit number of Ukrainian soldiers trapped.
Russians no longer directly attack big towns or well defended villages, but instead go around them. It's also clearly visible by now that this happens to Prokrovsk, which is the main defense anchor for the whole region.

Fights in Kurks are still raging, with the Russians getting terrain even faster there, with the help of the NK meat as bullet catcher.
Never thought I would say that, but the poor suckers would have been better off never leaving North korea.