Electric Cars: Can they finally become popular in the United States?

[Just Joe]

As a Kona EV owner, I encourage you to look at the Niro EV if you want a bit more interior space. Same battery and driveline as the Kona. Slightly longer body, different styling.

That's the case with the first generation that ended in 2023. Things might be different with the new generation.

We're really happy with our Kona EV but if we expected to use the rear seat for American height adults on a regular basis, the Kona would not cut it. For us it is mostly used as a one/two seater and occasionally a three seater.

Niros come with a heat pump in some configurations, prob the top trim. In the USA as far as I know, the Kona can not be had with a heat pump. The PTC is fine, works very well.

Even at ~20F and using the PTC, the Kona can deliver ~200 miles so it might be a non-issue. It has been for us even driving out of town.

[2sk22]

@geekette and @Just Joe I took a deeper look at the Niro EV and it seems to meet all of my requirements very nicely and I think it looks nicer than the Kona EV. Definitely the front runner now!

[JLee]

The Niro EV has wired CarPlay, and I do like that the screen is integrated into the dash, rather than a tablet sticking up.

Wish we'd gotten a heat pump, though, even here in the south.  The one thing I miss is the near instant heat of a ICE engine (a few days a year).

All of my EVs have had functional heat way faster than any of my ICE cars -- if you don't have immediate heat, I'd suspect something is wrong.

[geekette]

Interesting.  I don't seem to be the only one complaining online about the (lack of) heat in the Niro.  One thing about the dealerships around here is they don't have a clue, so I don't have any way to tell if it's okay or not.  It does eventually warm up, but most of my trips are short, so I stay cold. 

The "wave" (higher trim level) has the heat pump, and a heated steering wheel.  I would LOVE a heated steering wheel.  Until then, gloves.

[RWD]

The Niro EV has wired CarPlay, and I do like that the screen is integrated into the dash, rather than a tablet sticking up.

Wish we'd gotten a heat pump, though, even here in the south.  The one thing I miss is the near instant heat of a ICE engine (a few days a year).

All of my EVs have had functional heat way faster than any of my ICE cars -- if you don't have immediate heat, I'd suspect something is wrong.

Same here. ICE vehicles take forever to get heat in to the cabin.

[geekette]

The Niro EV has wired CarPlay, and I do like that the screen is integrated into the dash, rather than a tablet sticking up.

Wish we'd gotten a heat pump, though, even here in the south.  The one thing I miss is the near instant heat of a ICE engine (a few days a year).

All of my EVs have had functional heat way faster than any of my ICE cars -- if you don't have immediate heat, I'd suspect something is wrong.

Same here. ICE vehicles take forever to get heat in to the cabin.

Interesting.  Our last car (a Chevy HHR, hardly top of the line), would be blasting heat within 2-3 minutes.

[41_swish]

The Niro EV has wired CarPlay, and I do like that the screen is integrated into the dash, rather than a tablet sticking up.

Wish we'd gotten a heat pump, though, even here in the south.  The one thing I miss is the near instant heat of a ICE engine (a few days a year).

All of my EVs have had functional heat way faster than any of my ICE cars -- if you don't have immediate heat, I'd suspect something is wrong.

When it gets really cold, it takes my car like 10 min to actually warm in the cabin

Same here. ICE vehicles take forever to get heat in to the cabin.

[RWD]

The Niro EV has wired CarPlay, and I do like that the screen is integrated into the dash, rather than a tablet sticking up.

Wish we'd gotten a heat pump, though, even here in the south.  The one thing I miss is the near instant heat of a ICE engine (a few days a year).

All of my EVs have had functional heat way faster than any of my ICE cars -- if you don't have immediate heat, I'd suspect something is wrong.

Same here. ICE vehicles take forever to get heat in to the cabin.

Interesting.  Our last car (a Chevy HHR, hardly top of the line), would be blasting heat within 2-3 minutes.

EVs should be faster than that.

[41_swish]

The Niro EV has wired CarPlay, and I do like that the screen is integrated into the dash, rather than a tablet sticking up.

Wish we'd gotten a heat pump, though, even here in the south.  The one thing I miss is the near instant heat of a ICE engine (a few days a year).

All of my EVs have had functional heat way faster than any of my ICE cars -- if you don't have immediate heat, I'd suspect something is wrong.

Same here. ICE vehicles take forever to get heat in to the cabin.

Interesting.  Our last car (a Chevy HHR, hardly top of the line), would be blasting heat within 2-3 minutes.

EVs should be faster than that.

Every EV should come standard with heated and cooled seats. Using the heater is probably less efficent that warming up the seats.

[Just Joe]

That works well. Heat the seats, heat the wheel, and keep the cabin heater on some lower than usual temp for long trips. Around town if the car can be charged at home, efficiency doesn't matter.

Our Kona has 3-temp seats. I don't know who uses "high". Might be a good idea to get a leather cape to protect yourself from burns. ;)

Our PTC heater also heats very quickly. It's making heat within a minute. This winter (our first EV winter) we've made good use of cabin pre-heat feature.

On the Nissan Leaf with the heat pump, the PTC is warm within a minute and within 2-3 minutes the heat pump takes over.

@geekette - I feel your pain about the inexperienced dealer techs. Same here too. I'd recommend spending some time on the Kia forums or Reddit. Maybe there is a setting that improves the heating experience.

[neo von retorch]

Also with some cars you can heat the cabin while plugged in before departing your home. Super cheap and it's the perfect temp when you get in.

Gas cars can have remote start but you can't use it inside a garage and gas costs more than home electric (in most cases!)

[BuffaloStache]

Also with some cars you can heat the cabin while plugged in before departing your home. Super cheap and it's the perfect temp when you get in.

Gas cars can have remote start but you can't use it inside a garage and gas costs more than home electric (in most cases!)

This is the exact point I was going to make, Neo, it's really critical with EVs and it seems like almost all EVs have remote start (I think)?

Also, +1 for heated seats and steering wheel. I usually wear boots in the winter, so I almost never turn on the cabin heat when I'm driving by myself. But then again, I'm a sucker for efficiency and love telling people that I've driven almost 30,000 miles at slightly more than ~150 MPGe :).

[geekette]

Okay, okay.  Today I turned off "auto" and just turned on the heat.  Hey, I got heat! 

I agree with @Just Joe - the seat heaters will toast your nuggets (old "Whose Line Is It Anyway" joke).

Still want a heated steering wheel though!

[RWD]

Okay, okay.  Today I turned off "auto" and just turned on the heat.  Hey, I got heat! 

I agree with @Just Joe - the seat heaters will toast your nuggets (old "Whose Line Is It Anyway" joke).

Still want a heated steering wheel though!

Yay! With an ICE it has to heat up the metal block, then the coolant, pump that through a heater core in the dash, and finally blow air over it. With an EV it's either a resistive heater (like a space heater) or heat pump, both of which should start delivering hot air almost immediately.

We have the heated steering wheel option on our Polestar 2, it's pretty nice. After about 1 minute I'm already turning it off because it's that fast.

[Just Joe]

Okay, okay.  Today I turned off "auto" and just turned on the heat.  Hey, I got heat! 

I agree with @Just Joe - the seat heaters will toast your nuggets (old "Whose Line Is It Anyway" joke).

Still want a heated steering wheel though!

Great, fun show.

I think I have seen heated steering wheel covers for sale. (edited: I have!)

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=heated+steering+wheel+covers

Not expensive. Not recommending buying it from Amazon, just using their website for showcasing for this discussion.

 

[41_swish]

Honestly, I am really tempted to trade in my Toyota Camry and try a Volkswagen Id 4 lease for $39 a month. I think the yearly milage is low, like 8000 mi, but that will be fine for my needs. I live in an apartment complex with dedicated chargers, and I bike to work most days.

[GilesMM]

Honestly, I am really tempted to trade in my Toyota Camry and try a Volkswagen Id 4 lease for $39 a month. I think the yearly milage is low, like 8000 mi, but that will be fine for my needs. I live in an apartment complex with dedicated chargers, and I bike to work most days.

Sounds like a good deal. Is the trade-in applied against the lease cost? Might be better off selling privately.

[Scandium]

Okay, okay.  Today I turned off "auto" and just turned on the heat.  Hey, I got heat! 

I agree with @Just Joe - the seat heaters will toast your nuggets (old "Whose Line Is It Anyway" joke).

Still want a heated steering wheel though!

Great, fun show.

I think I have seen heated steering wheel covers for sale. (edited: I have!)

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=heated+steering+wheel+covers

Not expensive. Not recommending buying it from Amazon, just using their website for showcasing for this discussion.

A pair of gloves must be a much cheaper and simpler solution?! I always use gloves in any cold weather, so don't understand this heated wheel nonsense. Just another luxury pampering that makes us weaker and reliant on complex tech to keep away from any sign of discomfort at all times.

[GuitarStv]

Am I the only one on the planet who hates heated seats?  Feels like you're peeing your pants or something.

[Just Joe]

Living here in the south, cooled seats are a nice thing. Never had a car with them before the Kona.

None of these features would be make it or break it at purchase time. Just extras that came on our used car that we like.

The killer features that the car came with was active cruise control and active regen braking. Love those!

[Frugal Lizard]

I have chronic pelvic pain and heated seats are the B  E  S  T.
Like going to physiotherapy. Especially in the EV6 where they heat to wonderfully toasty all the way up to the kidneys.

[Scandium]

Am I the only one on the planet who hates heated seats?  Feels like you're peeing your pants or something.

Also not a fan, I barely ever use them. Usually forget I have it. Even in living in the nordics i didn't. My butt is like the least cold part, and get's warm after sitting for a minute. So hardly worth turning it on. And then after 3 min it's just uncomfortable and I have to turn it off.

[41_swish]

I have always owned base model cars, so I have never actually had heated seats. I have only used them in other people's cars. They are nice and all, but I don't think they would be a make-or-break thing for me.

[Tyson]

EV's use heated seats and steering wheels because it's way more energy efficient than heating the air in the cabin.

[GuitarStv]

EV's use heated seats and steering wheels because it's way more energy efficient than heating the air in the cabin.

I don't usually turn the heater on unless I need to deal with frost or condensation on the windows.  How do EVs deal with this without heating the air in the cabin?

[neo von retorch]

Heated Seats: Opinion

So I'm not a "lover" of heated seats, but things are changing. For one, sometime after hitting 40, I started to actually "feel cold." Like, my ears get cold and then start to hurt. I feel chill. I wear sweatshirts and big coats. This didn't used to happen! Also there are very different "heated seats" depending on the car. My 2014 Silverado actually had the best. 3 levels of heat, separately, for your back and your butt! And the levels were good. Pretty darn warm, plenty warm, and just warm enough. Some cars have like "way too hot, OK that's still pretty hot, it's too warm but it's OK for a minute."

In our Mazda, the first setting is great when you're super cold, but after it gets up to full warmth I have to dial it way back down to the low setting.

My Polestar 2 pre-warms the seats and steering wheel, and then I leave it on the lowest settings.

Heated Steering Wheel: Opinion

I've worn "driving gloves" for the past like 8 years but... heated steering wheels create heat and pass it along to cold fingers. It's also "already there" so in some ways, it is a simpler solution compared to gloves ;) But in this weather, with my walk from the parking lot to the office (8-10 minutes), I'm wearing gloves anyway. Still enjoy the heated steering wheel when it's 15° F outside and I'm ready to be warmed up.

[dandarc]

EV's use heated seats and steering wheels because it's way more energy efficient than heating the air in the cabin.

I don't usually turn the heater on unless I need to deal with frost or condensation on the windows.  How do EVs deal with this without heating the air in the cabin?

They don't (at least none I've driven have). Same wipers + defrost blowing hot air on the windshield setting as your ICE car for the front, wires & possibly wiper in the rear.

[Just Joe]

EV's use heated seats and steering wheels because it's way more energy efficient than heating the air in the cabin.

I don't usually turn the heater on unless I need to deal with frost or condensation on the windows.  How do EVs deal with this without heating the air in the cabin?

The Kona has a clever trick - there is a button that causes the system to only heat the driver's side of the cockpit. I assume it still defrosts the whole windshield.

Supposedly there is energy savings in just heating the driver's side. I don't know.

[jrhampt]

EV's use heated seats and steering wheels because it's way more energy efficient than heating the air in the cabin.

I don't usually turn the heater on unless I need to deal with frost or condensation on the windows.  How do EVs deal with this without heating the air in the cabin?

I usually crack the windows if they’re fogging up inside…I typically don’t use the heater either and don’t bother with gloves; hat and coat are usually sufficient.  I do enjoy heated seats in other people’s cars but mine doesn’t have them.

[Scandium]

https://electrek.co/2025/02/21/trump-to-shut-down-all-8000-ev-charging-ports-at-federal-govt-buildings/

Maybe there will be a firesale on GSA EVs! Not sure what type of EV they had though

[Just Joe]

I just hate all the backpedaling this represents. The purchase and installation money is spent. Why switch them off? Why tear them out? Where is the value in that?

I know, I know... This is all political theatrics. I really hate what the Musk --- err, Trump team is doing to our government.

[jrhampt]

I just hate all the backpedaling this represents. The purchase and installation money is spent. Why switch them off? Why tear them out? Where is the value in that?

I know, I know... This is all political theatrics. I really hate what the Musk --- err, Trump team is doing to our government.

Seems pretty wasteful and inefficient to me.

[SpareChange]

Am I the only one on the planet who hates heated seats?  Feels like you're peeing your pants or something.

Years ago, I left work in the afternoon, after my car had been baking in the summer Texas sun all day. Once driving,it didn't take long to notice that my ass was feeling a good bit hotter than the rest of me. Looked down and saw that the seat heater was on max. Couldn't get it to turn off. After getting home 30 minutes later, I ended up pulling the fuse. Been reluctant to reengage with the tech since then...

[41_swish]

https://electrek.co/2025/02/21/trump-to-shut-down-all-8000-ev-charging-ports-at-federal-govt-buildings/

Maybe there will be a firesale on GSA EVs! Not sure what type of EV they had though

It just feels like a never-ending culture war at this point :(

[neo von retorch]

Turning off perfectly functioning (and profitable) electrical outlets that cost a bunch to install... pointless virtue signaling??

[Scandium]

Turning off perfectly functioning (and profitable) electrical outlets that cost a bunch to install... pointless virtue signaling??

It's "vice signaling"; Being cruel just to show others than you are, often at direct detriment to yourself.

[Just Joe]

Am I the only one on the planet who hates heated seats?  Feels like you're peeing your pants or something.

Years ago, I left work in the afternoon, after my car had been baking in the summer Texas sun all day. Once driving,it didn't take long to notice that my ass was feeling a good bit hotter than the rest of me. Looked down and saw that the seat heater was on max. Couldn't get it to turn off. After getting home 30 minutes later, I ended up pulling the fuse. Been reluctant to reengage with the tech since then...

That's been an occasional road trip prank in our family. Just casually reach down and roast the other front seat occupants buns in the summer with the seat heater. It's very juvenile. Cheap giggles.

[41_swish]

Turning off perfectly functioning (and profitable) electrical outlets that cost a bunch to install... pointless virtue signaling??

Republicans and virtue signal, too. It is just stupid, but I feel like modern politics has evolved to just become this Democrat and Republican flip flop where whenever somebody is president they just undo and redo stuff from the previous person.

[Just Joe]

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1145815_federal-purge-evs-chargers-gsa-trump-musk

So the feds may or may not be liquidating all of their EVs and chargers...

I'm seeing estimates of $1B to $2B to shutdown, sell off EVs, tea out functional chargers, and buy replacement ICEVs.

If so what a waste!

[NorCal]

The newly enacted tariffs are about to change the entire auto world.

If the new tariffs stand on their own without adjustment it will be apocalyptic for the US auto industry.  I don't think they will stand exactly as they are for the long term, so future adjustments could make it less bad. 

Here's what I see:
1.  All US built cars just had a couple thousand in costs added to their production minimum.  This could go up by a lot more if the added tariffs on steel and aluminum are implemented.  This will make US built cars noncompetitive for export.  Most of the manufacturing for export we currently do will go away. 
2.  Close to zero cars will be imported from Mexico or Canada with a 25% tariff.  Many of these models will simply disappear from the market.  As an example, do you think a $30k Ford Maverick would still be imported if the MSRP shot up to $37.5K?  They won't re-shore that production (labor costs are too high), so the model will just disappear.  This will be true of a lot of lower-priced cars.
3.  Japanese, European and Korean made cars are exempt from tariffs for the time being, even if they're sourcing parts from Mexico and Canada.  This will give foreign cars a big price advantage over US made ones.  I doubt this oversight will last long.
4.  There will be general chaos as the supply chain adjusts to new costs for everything.  Some suppliers will go out of business (I personally saw this in Trump tariffs 1.0), dealerships will have inventory challenges, and brands will end up with big holes in their lineups. 

I'm not sure exactly where this takes EV adoption versus ICE sales.  I suspect it will marginally benefit the competitive balance of ICE vs EV, but it's really hard to tell.

American car makers build engines and transmissions in Mexico.  So there could be a narrowing of the gap between drive-train costs.  Companies like GM also won't invest in re-shoring all of their ICE drive train production because they legitimately see that business shrinking over time.  It's hard to justify massive Capex in a declining business.

On the EV side, it's hard to say which critical minerals will get caught up in the trade war.  Many parts of the EV supply chain are now domestic due to IRA incentives, but that doesn't extend all the way back to mining. 

[41_swish]

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1145815_federal-purge-evs-chargers-gsa-trump-musk

So the feds may or may not be liquidating all of their EVs and chargers...

I'm seeing estimates of $1B to $2B to shutdown, sell off EVs, tea out functional chargers, and buy replacement ICEVs.

If so what a waste!

I wouldn't expect anything less from those two...

[2sk22]

The newly enacted tariffs are about to change the entire auto world.

I was thinking about this too.

New cars are becoming an expensive indulgence for wealthy people. Most middle class people are buying used cars. If we stop buying new cars, in a few years there won't be any used cars available either.

Meanwhile, we have created a car-dependent society that's predicated on everyone being able to afford a car (and fuel, maintenance and insurance). Project 2025 is allergic to public transit. something will have to give.

[GilesMM]

The newly enacted tariffs are about to change the entire auto world.

I was thinking about this too.

New cars are becoming an expensive indulgence for wealthy people. Most middle class people are buying used cars. If we stop buying new cars, in a few years there won't be any used cars available either.

Meanwhile, we have created a car-dependent society that's predicated on everyone being able to afford a car (and fuel, maintenance and insurance). Project 2025 is allergic to public transit. something will have to give.

It would be a good thing if higher car prices reduced consumption/production/usage and moved people onto their feet, bikes, public transit and carpools.

[LennStar]

The newly enacted tariffs are about to change the entire auto world.

I was thinking about this too.

New cars are becoming an expensive indulgence for wealthy people. Most middle class people are buying used cars. If we stop buying new cars, in a few years there won't be any used cars available either.

Meanwhile, we have created a car-dependent society that's predicated on everyone being able to afford a car (and fuel, maintenance and insurance). Project 2025 is allergic to public transit. something will have to give.

It would be a good thing if higher car prices reduced consumption/production/usage and moved people onto their feet, bikes, public transit and carpools.

I thought about thanking Trump for his efforts in combating climate change by destroying the wasteful US economy, but then... it would do nothing, so why?

[GilesMM]

The newly enacted tariffs are about to change the entire auto world.

I was thinking about this too.

New cars are becoming an expensive indulgence for wealthy people. Most middle class people are buying used cars. If we stop buying new cars, in a few years there won't be any used cars available either.

Meanwhile, we have created a car-dependent society that's predicated on everyone being able to afford a car (and fuel, maintenance and insurance). Project 2025 is allergic to public transit. something will have to give.

It would be a good thing if higher car prices reduced consumption/production/usage and moved people onto their feet, bikes, public transit and carpools.

I thought about thanking Trump for his efforts in combating climate change by destroying the wasteful US economy, but then... it would do nothing, so why?

I would love to see him dismantle the wasteful military, but not holding by breath.

[41_swish]

The newly enacted tariffs are about to change the entire auto world.

I was thinking about this too.

New cars are becoming an expensive indulgence for wealthy people. Most middle class people are buying used cars. If we stop buying new cars, in a few years there won't be any used cars available either.

Meanwhile, we have created a car-dependent society that's predicated on everyone being able to afford a car (and fuel, maintenance and insurance). Project 2025 is allergic to public transit. something will have to give.

It would be a good thing if higher car prices reduced consumption/production/usage and moved people onto their feet, bikes, public transit and carpools.

I thought about thanking Trump for his efforts in combating climate change by destroying the wasteful US economy, but then... it would do nothing, so why?

I would love to see him dismantle the wasteful military, but not holding by breath.

Ohhhhh that isn't going to happen any time soon. The U.S. Dollar is backed by the military

[2sk22]

Car loan delinquencies are rising!

[GilesMM]

Car loan delinquencies are rising!

High pandemic car prices + high interest rates = high payments. Add in a dollop of inflation to squeeze the rest of the household budget, and suddenly the car payments are too much.

[41_swish]

Car loan delinquencies are rising!

Ohhhhhh baby. I think credit card debt is at an all-time high, too.

[GuitarStv]

So, is this going to be America's first intentionally self-inflicted recession?