Electric Cars: Can they finally become popular in the United States?

[Syonyk]

There are studded tires and snow tires for bikes.

Have ridden them extensively in the winter.  They're cheap, and absolutely amazing.  I had what felt like 50% of dry pavement traction on black ice and wet ice, and entirely acceptable traction in snow.  The downside was that I had about 50% of summer dry pavement traction on dry pavement - they were not "grippy tires" in the summer sense.  But I'd be purring down a path or the road, and all of a sudden the studs would go silent on a layer of ice I couldn't even see - and there was no change in how the bike rode.

A friend of mine, former BMXer, got tired of hearing me talk about how amazing they were some winter evening, so he borrowed my bike, built up some speed, and rode a stoppie across a frozen lake of a parking lot.  Came back, apologized for doubting them, and agreed that they were, in fact, that incredible.

=======

I did the math on the last tank of gas in our Volt.  $35 and change.  The 2100 miles on this tank would have run us close to $350 in our Mazda 3 we had previously.  And, no, I don't really count power cost because our solar arrays are over-generating our demand, so power is somewhere between "free" and "substantially prepaid."

[BlueMR2]

Eventually I may consider putting an EV kit in our existing daily driver. Just drive it forever.

I'd like to do that with mine.  Forever may be a stretch, but until the frame is beyond rust repair would be nice.  Transmission parts are already unavailable, as are some sensors.  Each day could be it's last for that powertrain/control system.

[nereo]

There are studded tires and snow tires for bikes.

Have ridden them extensively in the winter.  They're cheap, and absolutely amazing.  I had what felt like 50% of dry pavement traction on black ice and wet ice, and entirely acceptable traction in snow.  The downside was that I had about 50% of summer dry pavement traction on dry pavement - they were not "grippy tires" in the summer sense.  But I'd be purring down a path or the road, and all of a sudden the studs would go silent on a layer of ice I couldn't even see - and there was no change in how the bike rode.

A friend of mine, former BMXer, got tired of hearing me talk about how amazing they were some winter evening, so he borrowed my bike, built up some speed, and rode a stoppie across a frozen lake of a parking lot.  Came back, apologized for doubting them, and agreed that they were, in fact, that incredible.

=======

I did the math on the last tank of gas in our Volt.  $35 and change.  The 2100 miles on this tank would have run us close to $350 in our Mazda 3 we had previously.  And, no, I don't really count power cost because our solar arrays are over-generating our demand, so power is somewhere between "free" and "substantially prepaid."

This has largely been my experience with winter tires - both on bikes and on cars. The difference is monumental, and cars/bikes that seem to ‘suck in icy/snowy conditions’ are suddenly easy to use again.

Quick, back-of-the-napkin math shows you’re getting ~240 miles per gallon on your volt (plus electricity).  Not too bad, and a strong case for a PHEV with it’s massively smaller battery over a full EV.

[Syonyk]

Quick, back-of-the-napkin math shows you’re getting ~240 miles per gallon on your volt (plus electricity).  Not too bad, and a strong case for a PHEV with it’s massively smaller battery over a full EV.

Closer to 340mpg.  2144 miles on 6.2 gallons of "into town and back" driving, some of which included a trailer (I'm towing a 1000 lb trailer into town and back every Saturday as a handwave).

That's about normal for warm weather, "no particularly long trips" time.  Some of the trips that happen every month or so exceed the battery range, so we use a gallon of gas, and there are some into town trips that use 0.25 gallon or something getting home if it's a long day of potting around in town, but it mostly does the daily driving on battery, which was the goal.

Winter is closer to 150mpg, with increased engine use for heat and because efficiency is worse in the winter.

I've got about 16kWh nameplate battery (10.5kWh usable, down to about 9.5kWh usable after a decade), so ~6 Volts per 100kWh long range BEV.  I guarantee the Volts would offset far more gas use than a single long range BEV.

[pecunia]

My brother sent me this story of politicians being somewhat irrational about the charger thing.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a40543385/north-carolina-wants-remove-free-public-ev-chargers/

My impression is that change is hard for some people.  The old V8 is like Betsy Ross and the American flag.

Some days I am glad I am not patriotic.

[nereo]

My brother sent me this story of politicians being somewhat irrational about the charger thing.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a40543385/north-carolina-wants-remove-free-public-ev-chargers/

My impression is that change is hard for some people.  The old V8 is like Betsy Ross and the American flag.

Some days I am glad I am not patriotic.

I’ve had a number of encounters with people who are irrationally upset that there are free charging stations around.  They use words like “freeloading” and seem to feel like it’s deeply unjust (somehow). Ironically most of the free chargers are put in by businesses to entice customers to patronize them, or they have parking limits which means you get roughly 60 cents of “free” power (in exchange for not contributing to the ground-level air pollution and helping to meet the State’s energy goals.

Some people just can’t handle other people getting perks

[Just Joe]

Eventually I may consider putting an EV kit in our existing daily driver. Just drive it forever.

I'd like to do that with mine.  Forever may be a stretch, but until the frame is beyond rust repair would be nice.  Transmission parts are already unavailable, as are some sensors.  Each day could be it's last for that powertrain/control system.

True on the rust. I did an oil change today. Underside of the car looks as good as it did when it was new. I have been careful to rinse off the salt when we have the couple of snow events per winter. And beet juice instead of salt lately. 

[soulpatchmike]

Looks like we are getting closer to popularity, with 25% of those surveyed saying they plan to purchase a BEV for their next vehicle.  Wonder how many years before we reach 50%.

AAA’s latest consumer survey from Feb 2022 reveals that one-quarter of Americans say they would be likely to buy an electric vehicle (powered exclusively by electricity, i.e., not a hybrid) for their next auto purchase, with Millennials leading the way (30%).

[joe189man]

I saw this the other day and it made me question or consider a hybrid over a BEV

https://www.ted.com/talks/graham_conway_the_contradictions_of_battery_operated_vehicles

i haven't looked into the claims, but the TL;DR is that the carbon emissions associated with creating a BEV are some much higher compared to an ICE or hybrid to start and depending where you are or how your electricity is generated it could be dirty coal and also contribute to the carbon emissions compared with green sources.

The guy says that hybrids are a better option now

[RWD]

Looks like we are getting closer to popularity[...]

I recently heard that the US passed 5% of new cars sales being EVs, which is considered a tipping point.
https://www.kbb.com/car-news/report-ev-tipping-point/

[RWD]

TL;DR is that the carbon emissions associated with creating a BEV are some much higher compared to an ICE or hybrid to start and depending where you are or how your electricity is generated it could be dirty coal and also contribute to the carbon emissions compared with green sources.

No, that is wrong. There have been multiple studies disproving it. And electricity sources will only get greener while ICE can never be carbon-free.
https://insideevs.com/news/569169/gas-cars-emissions-electric-cars/
https://electrek.co/2022/03/04/light-duty-evs-have-64-lower-life-cycle-emissions-than-ice-vehicles-ford-study/

[nereo]

Looks like we are getting closer to popularity[...]

I recently heard that the US passed 5% of new cars sales being EVs, which is considered a tipping point.
https://www.kbb.com/car-news/report-ev-tipping-point/

The longer gasoline stays north of $4 the more popular I believe BEVs will be. Even if I paid for all of my charging (I don’t) the energy cost would be competitive with a gasoline engine with fuel prices at $2/gallon.

[RWD]

Looks like we are getting closer to popularity[...]

I recently heard that the US passed 5% of new cars sales being EVs, which is considered a tipping point.
https://www.kbb.com/car-news/report-ev-tipping-point/

The longer gasoline stays north of $4 the more popular I believe BEVs will be. Even if I paid for all of my charging (I don’t) the energy cost would be competitive with a gasoline engine with fuel prices at $2/gallon.

I saw $6/gallon this week; for just regular old 87 octane!

[dandarc]

TL;DR is that the carbon emissions associated with creating a BEV are some much higher compared to an ICE or hybrid to start and depending where you are or how your electricity is generated it could be dirty coal and also contribute to the carbon emissions compared with green sources.

No, that is wrong. There have been multiple studies disproving it. And electricity sources will only get greener while ICE can never be carbon-free.
https://insideevs.com/news/569169/gas-cars-emissions-electric-cars/
https://electrek.co/2022/03/04/light-duty-evs-have-64-lower-life-cycle-emissions-than-ice-vehicles-ford-study/

And one more refutation of the TEDx referenced above. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXLko2_pozc.

[RWD]

Cheaper version (with smaller battery) of ID.4 confirmed for US. I'm guessing EPA range will be around 200 miles.
https://insideevs.com/news/599409/volkswagen-id4-62-kwh-battery-us/

[Syonyk]

The longer gasoline stays north of $4 the more popular I believe BEVs will be.

I'm seeing an uptake in interest out here, which is "conservative rural Idaho."  People are finally paying attention to what I've been saying about my operating costs being staggeringly low with the Volt and solar, and I'm seeing a few more people either doing solar, an EV, or both.

[evme]

To answer the OP question, yes EVs can and I think will become popular very soon in the US as we seem to be at the tipping point as outlined in the article below. Once you reach 5% market penetration then the adoption rate appears to rapidly snowball based on other countries that have reached that threshold.

https://www.insiderintelligence.com/content/us-surpasses-5-ev-tipping-point-mass-adoption

US surpasses 5% EV tipping point for mass adoption

The US is the latest country to pass the critical EV tipping point of 5% of new car sales, signaling the start of mass EV adoption that could be accelerated by greater market variety and recent oil shortages, per Bloomberg.

By the numbers: The US joins the other two largest car markets—Europe and China—in moving beyond the 5% threshold.

To date, 19 countries have reached the 5% tipping point. Other car markets approaching the threshold include Canada, Australia, and Spain.
EV sales grew 160% YoY in 2021 and are expected to grow exponentially in 2022.
If the US continues its aggressive shift to EVs, approximately a quarter of new car sales could be EVs by 2025, beating forecasts by two years.
In context, EV sales in the EU and the UK are surging and on track to overtake gas and diesel vehicles by 2025.

[2sk22]

[first world problems] but... getting a bit frustrated that I've had no movement on my pre-order for an EV.  It's been almost three months now, and we know that once we hit the next point ("delivery") it will be an additional 3-5 weeks, so it looks like the end of summer at the earliest.

As someone who'd been planning to replace our last ICE with a BEV (we have one PHEV) few years, it's frustrating that our plans get delayed with $5/gas and hundreds-of-thousands rushing into the EV space.  Glad they are now popular, but wish they had gotten popular about three months later.  Oh well.

From what I'm reading, delivery dates for many EVs are will into 2023. Supply will likely not be able to catch up with demand until the end of 2023.

I would dearly love to get an Ioniq 5 except that its a 6 month wait (apart from the fact that I drive less than 1000 miles a month and spend barely anything on gas).

[LennStar]

I would dearly love to get an Ioniq 5 except that its a 6 month wait (apart from the fact that I drive less than 1000 miles a month and spend barely anything on gas).

By then Lithium will be in very short supply. Don't put you hopes up.

[2sk22]

By then Lithium will be in very short supply. Don't put you hopes up.

I'm not in a hurry - my current car is just a year old and I barely use it since I'm retired. It would be a different matter if I was still commuting by car to work. In that case, I would have surely put myself on the waiting list, even if it took a year.

[pecunia]

Another Crazy Idea:

I don't have an electric car.

There's been thunderstorms rolling through.  We had a power outage.  I don't have a backup generator.  I don't have solar (cloudy?) panels.  Those who live in the areas where solar makes some sense often have a battery bank and inverter to serve the needs of their homes when the sun doesn't shine.

Can you use the battery of an electric car through an inverter to serve some of the needs of a home during power outages?  It seems like getting an inverter and a plug to the car would be simpler than a backup generator.

[dandarc]

Another Crazy Idea:

I don't have an electric car.

There's been thunderstorms rolling through.  We had a power outage.  I don't have a backup generator.  I don't have solar (cloudy?) panels.  Those who live in the areas where solar makes some sense often have a battery bank and inverter to serve the needs of their homes when the sun doesn't shine.

Can you use the battery of an electric car through an inverter to serve some of the needs of a home during power outages?  It seems like getting an inverter and a plug to the car would be simpler than a backup generator.

F-150 Lightning supports bi-directional charging which is sort of the fancy way to do this. But also (and this is a feature on ICE versions as well) has pro-power which is exactly what you reference here. Marketed towards people doing construction where you might not have electric set up at all yet at a house that doesn't exist, but also works as backup power and enough juice (7.2 KW I believe - more in aggregate from 2 separate inverters in the lightning, but I think it supports 7.2KW output via a single 240V plug in the bed).

Maybe someone can point us to an after-market version? Because I'd like to add that to the LEAF and stop with our gas generator (just a PITA basically - works fine, but now I've got another motor to take care of, gas to store, and so on).

[RWD]

Maybe someone can point us to an after-market version? Because I'd like to add that to the LEAF and stop with our gas generator (just a PITA basically - works fine, but now I've got another motor to take care of, gas to store, and so on).

CHAdeMO (which is what the LEAF uses) has always supported bi-directional charging. LEAFs were used as emergency generators during the Fukushima disaster.

The Wallbox Quasar is supposed to support powering your home via a CHAdeMO EV connection, but I'm not sure how to buy one (and last time I looked they were supposed to be like $4k). The same company also lists a Quasar 2 that uses CCS instead. Not sure if only certain EVs will be compatible though (like the VW ID.4 which is supposed to be enabling bi-directional charging soon).

I haven't looked much deeper than that. I suspect there will be more manufacturers offering their own bi-directional capable home charging stations like Ford as time goes on.

[pecunia]

Maybe someone can point us to an after-market version? Because I'd like to add that to the LEAF and stop with our gas generator (just a PITA basically - works fine, but now I've got another motor to take care of, gas to store, and so on).

CHAdeMO (which is what the LEAF uses) has always supported bi-directional charging. LEAFs were used as emergency generators during the Fukushima disaster.

The Wallbox Quasar is supposed to support powering your home via a CHAdeMO EV connection, but I'm not sure how to buy one (and last time I looked they were supposed to be like $4k). The same company also lists a Quasar 2 that uses CCS instead. Not sure if only certain EVs will be compatible though (like the VW ID.4 which is supposed to be enabling bi-directional charging soon).

I haven't looked much deeper than that. I suspect there will be more manufacturers offering their own bi-directional capable home charging stations like Ford as time goes on.

I think I would want the inverter as a separate unit.  However, they may combine the electronics of the rectifier and inverter some way and I guess that would be OK.  The 7.2 kVA of that Ford would be enough for an entire house.

[nereo]

I question whether I’d be brave enough to power my home with my EV - particularly if it was a primary vehicle. If the power didn’t return with a couple of days (or less) I’d have a dead car and still no power. 

If there were two vehicles it would be less of a deal

[pecunia]

I question whether I’d be brave enough to power my home with my EV - particularly if it was a primary vehicle. If the power didn’t return with a couple of days (or less) I’d have a dead car and still no power. 

If there were two vehicles it would be less of a deal

After retiring, our use of the vehicle is sometimes only once a week.  My 32 year old Schwinn will get me to the grocery store. (Most of the year.)

[Paper Chaser]

I question whether I’d be brave enough to power my home with my EV - particularly if it was a primary vehicle. If the power didn’t return with a couple of days (or less) I’d have a dead car and still no power. 

If there were two vehicles it would be less of a deal

And that assumes your EV is at or near full charge when the power goes out.

[gooki]

Why wouldn't it be?

[AlanStache]

I question whether I’d be brave enough to power my home with my EV - particularly if it was a primary vehicle. If the power didn’t return with a couple of days (or less) I’d have a dead car and still no power. 

If there were two vehicles it would be less of a deal

And that assumes your EV is at or near full charge when the power goes out.

Average battery capacity for an ev 64.1 kWh
https://ev-database.org/cheatsheet/useable-battery-capacity-electric-car
Say you used 1/3 of that and got home right as the power went out. 

64.1 * 2/3 = 42.7kWh of juice left in the car

This source gets a number of 6kWh of juice used per day for a refrigerator (https://www.energybot.com/blog/how-many-watts-does-a-refrigerator-use.html)

42.7kWh * (1day / 6kWh) = 7.11 day

Assuming you are not running the ac and the fridge is the biggest power draw (TV will likely be off as the internet may also be down so what is there to watch?).  The average car could give you basic power for most of a week.  But as always YMMV.  Even some more worst case numbers you are still looking at several days if you are at all careful with power usage. 

[LennStar]

Another Crazy Idea:

I don't have an electric car.

There's been thunderstorms rolling through.  We had a power outage.  I don't have a backup generator.  I don't have solar (cloudy?) panels.  Those who live in the areas where solar makes some sense often have a battery bank and inverter to serve the needs of their homes when the sun doesn't shine.

Can you use the battery of an electric car through an inverter to serve some of the needs of a home during power outages?  It seems like getting an inverter and a plug to the car would be simpler than a backup generator.

Depends on the car. Generally speaking that is even part of the renewable energies strategy - after all, most of all those huge batteries are never used. Using 20% of their capacity to store solar power on midday to release in the night is dirt cheap.

This source gets a number of 6kWh of juice used per day for a refrigerator

An AMERICAN SIZED, AGE OLD refrigerator. Modern (EU sized) ones are rated at about at 0,6kWh per day. And even big ones (2 doors) don't go above double that since the isolation is that is keeping the cold in, so the volume is not having a big effect after a certain minimum size.

[AlanStache]

This source gets a number of 6kWh of juice used per day for a refrigerator

An AMERICAN SIZED, AGE OLD refrigerator. Modern (EU sized) ones are rated at about at 0,6kWh per day. And even big ones (2 doors) don't go above double that since the isolation is that is keeping the cold in, so the volume is not having a big effect after a certain minimum size.

Why do you hate freedom so much? /s

[dandarc]

I question whether I’d be brave enough to power my home with my EV - particularly if it was a primary vehicle. If the power didn’t return with a couple of days (or less) I’d have a dead car and still no power. 

If there were two vehicles it would be less of a deal

Suppose it depends on your situation - probably would have to track things and find places to charge (in our case there's a bunch of free chargers around town) and plan for a couple of hours every other day to go get some juice and bring it home. In a power-out for potentially a long time situation, you'd probably manage particularly high-draw things like cutting central air in favor of portable AC only where you need it and "no dryer, no oven". Same as on generator unless you've got a massive one.

[GuitarStv]

I question whether I’d be brave enough to power my home with my EV - particularly if it was a primary vehicle. If the power didn’t return with a couple of days (or less) I’d have a dead car and still no power. 

If there were two vehicles it would be less of a deal

Suppose it depends on your situation - probably would have to track things and find places to charge (in our case there's a bunch of free chargers around town) and plan for a couple of hours every other day to go get some juice and bring it home. In a power-out for potentially a long time situation, you'd probably manage particularly high-draw things like cutting central air in favor of portable AC only where you need it and "no dryer, no oven". Same as on generator unless you've got a massive one.

The last time we had a multi-day power outage it was in the middle of the winter and -25 outside.  And without electricity our gas furnace blower won't run, which means no heating.  I'd rather lose ability to drive than risk potential burst water pipes any day of the week . . . but the beauty is, you just have more options with an EV that can be fed back into the house.  If you would rather drive away, then you can do that too.

[dandarc]

I question whether I’d be brave enough to power my home with my EV - particularly if it was a primary vehicle. If the power didn’t return with a couple of days (or less) I’d have a dead car and still no power. 

If there were two vehicles it would be less of a deal

Suppose it depends on your situation - probably would have to track things and find places to charge (in our case there's a bunch of free chargers around town) and plan for a couple of hours every other day to go get some juice and bring it home. In a power-out for potentially a long time situation, you'd probably manage particularly high-draw things like cutting central air in favor of portable AC only where you need it and "no dryer, no oven". Same as on generator unless you've got a massive one.

The last time we had a multi-day power outage it was in the middle of the winter and -25 outside.  And without electricity our gas furnace blower won't run, which means no heating.  I'd rather lose ability to drive than risk potential burst water pipes any day of the week . . . but the beauty is, you just have more options with an EV that can be fed back into the house.  If you would rather drive away, then you can do that too.

In our case, the main concern is hurricane - 2016 Hermine was first one to hit Tallahassee proper since 1989. Power was out for a full week, and we weren't the last ones to have it restored. Our 1950's-built neighborhood took some time to clear all the downed trees and get the power poles replaced and so on, but in-town with over 1,000 houses means we aren't super low on the priority list either. Agree that more options is a good thing.

[nereo]

I question whether I’d be brave enough to power my home with my EV - particularly if it was a primary vehicle. If the power didn’t return with a couple of days (or less) I’d have a dead car and still no power. 

If there were two vehicles it would be less of a deal

Suppose it depends on your situation - probably would have to track things and find places to charge (in our case there's a bunch of free chargers around town) and plan for a couple of hours every other day to go get some juice and bring it home. In a power-out for potentially a long time situation, you'd probably manage particularly high-draw things like cutting central air in favor of portable AC only where you need it and "no dryer, no oven". Same as on generator unless you've got a massive one.

The last time we had a multi-day power outage it was in the middle of the winter and -25 outside.  And without electricity our gas furnace blower won't run, which means no heating.  I'd rather lose ability to drive than risk potential burst water pipes any day of the week . . . but the beauty is, you just have more options with an EV that can be fed back into the house.  If you would rather drive away, then you can do that too.

This has been my experience as well. Multi-day power outage often occur with extreme weather and/or civil unrest. In both cases the ability to GTFO takes on a high priority. It’s not always advisable to shelter in place, even if you have the electrical power.

Sometimes what you think might last a day or two drags on much longer and the consequences get more severe.

[GuitarStv]

I question whether I’d be brave enough to power my home with my EV - particularly if it was a primary vehicle. If the power didn’t return with a couple of days (or less) I’d have a dead car and still no power. 

If there were two vehicles it would be less of a deal

Suppose it depends on your situation - probably would have to track things and find places to charge (in our case there's a bunch of free chargers around town) and plan for a couple of hours every other day to go get some juice and bring it home. In a power-out for potentially a long time situation, you'd probably manage particularly high-draw things like cutting central air in favor of portable AC only where you need it and "no dryer, no oven". Same as on generator unless you've got a massive one.

The last time we had a multi-day power outage it was in the middle of the winter and -25 outside.  And without electricity our gas furnace blower won't run, which means no heating.  I'd rather lose ability to drive than risk potential burst water pipes any day of the week . . . but the beauty is, you just have more options with an EV that can be fed back into the house.  If you would rather drive away, then you can do that too.

This has been my experience as well. Multi-day power outage often occur with extreme weather and/or civil unrest. In both cases the ability to GTFO takes on a high priority. It’s not always advisable to shelter in place, even if you have the electrical power.

Sometimes what you think might last a day or two drags on much longer and the consequences get more severe.

Mobility shouldn't be an issue.  I have a bike and pretty good knowledge of routes within a 100 km radius of our house.  :P

[nereo]

I question whether I’d be brave enough to power my home with my EV - particularly if it was a primary vehicle. If the power didn’t return with a couple of days (or less) I’d have a dead car and still no power. 

If there were two vehicles it would be less of a deal

Suppose it depends on your situation - probably would have to track things and find places to charge (in our case there's a bunch of free chargers around town) and plan for a couple of hours every other day to go get some juice and bring it home. In a power-out for potentially a long time situation, you'd probably manage particularly high-draw things like cutting central air in favor of portable AC only where you need it and "no dryer, no oven". Same as on generator unless you've got a massive one.

The last time we had a multi-day power outage it was in the middle of the winter and -25 outside.  And without electricity our gas furnace blower won't run, which means no heating.  I'd rather lose ability to drive than risk potential burst water pipes any day of the week . . . but the beauty is, you just have more options with an EV that can be fed back into the house.  If you would rather drive away, then you can do that too.

This has been my experience as well. Multi-day power outage often occur with extreme weather and/or civil unrest. In both cases the ability to GTFO takes on a high priority. It’s not always advisable to shelter in place, even if you have the electrical power.

Sometimes what you think might last a day or two drags on much longer and the consequences get more severe.

Mobility shouldn't be an issue.  I have a bike and pretty good knowledge of routes within a 100 km radius of our house.  :P

Maybe, maybe not.  A lot of major disasters span distances a lot larger than 100km in order to reach relative safety.

[Syonyk]

I suppose I really should get the inverter installed in our Volt, since it's the best of all the worlds.  Some battery, and can be a fairly efficient little generator on gas if I need it to be.

[Paper Chaser]

I question whether I’d be brave enough to power my home with my EV - particularly if it was a primary vehicle. If the power didn’t return with a couple of days (or less) I’d have a dead car and still no power. 

If there were two vehicles it would be less of a deal

And that assumes your EV is at or near full charge when the power goes out.

Average battery capacity for an ev 64.1 kWh
https://ev-database.org/cheatsheet/useable-battery-capacity-electric-car
Say you used 1/3 of that and got home right as the power went out. 

64.1 * 2/3 = 42.7kWh of juice left in the car

This source gets a number of 6kWh of juice used per day for a refrigerator (https://www.energybot.com/blog/how-many-watts-does-a-refrigerator-use.html)

42.7kWh * (1day / 6kWh) = 7.11 day

Assuming you are not running the ac and the fridge is the biggest power draw (TV will likely be off as the internet may also be down so what is there to watch?).  The average car could give you basic power for most of a week.  But as always YMMV.  Even some more worst case numbers you are still looking at several days if you are at all careful with power usage.

No losses accounted for? For shame! But I suppose that if all you wanted to do was keep your fridge running then yes, it's fine for a bit. Most people will want some lights, some water, and some HVAC at a minimum if they're sheltering in place. Especially if the outage is the result of extreme weather scenarios. I'm not saying that an EV that offers backup power is a bad thing at all. Just that I wouldn't want it alone to be my only source of backup power.

For what it's worth, Ford says the Lightning with it's 131kwh pack can provide 30kwh per day (apparently the average consumption of a US home) for "up to 3 days" if it's fully charged:

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2022/02/02/f-150-lightning-power-play.html

But that battery size is $10k more, plus a few thousand more for the special 80 amp bi-directional charging station/inverter setup and it's install costs. A natural gas/propane backup generator could power the whole house almost indefinitely for half of that cost. And a small gasoline powered generator could keep the essentials powered for a very long time for the $15k that the big battery and fancy charger will end up costing. Like EV use in general, I think the ability to provide backup power can probably work out very well for the majority of power outages. But there are always edge cases where fossil fuels still make more sense. You wouldn't buy an EV to tow a lot, and you wouldn't buy one if backup power is mission critical. The backup power is more of a perk to cover most cases than it's primary focus.

[GuitarStv]

The tricky part with a small gas generator in a city is how to avoid being lynched by all the angry people without power who have to listen to the deafening racket from your back yard.

My dad's farm is a pretty good distance from his neighbour, but you can always hear their generator kicks on.

[JLee]

Another Crazy Idea:

I don't have an electric car.

There's been thunderstorms rolling through.  We had a power outage.  I don't have a backup generator.  I don't have solar (cloudy?) panels.  Those who live in the areas where solar makes some sense often have a battery bank and inverter to serve the needs of their homes when the sun doesn't shine.

Can you use the battery of an electric car through an inverter to serve some of the needs of a home during power outages?  It seems like getting an inverter and a plug to the car would be simpler than a backup generator.

Depends on the car. Generally speaking that is even part of the renewable energies strategy - after all, most of all those huge batteries are never used. Using 20% of their capacity to store solar power on midday to release in the night is dirt cheap.

This source gets a number of 6kWh of juice used per day for a refrigerator

An AMERICAN SIZED, AGE OLD refrigerator. Modern (EU sized) ones are rated at about at 0,6kWh per day. And even big ones (2 doors) don't go above double that since the isolation is that is keeping the cold in, so the volume is not having a big effect after a certain minimum size.

For reference, I have an 18.1 cu ft Best Buy brand fridge (bought within the last couple of years) that is rated for 398 kwh / year (1.1 kwh/day).  I also have a similar-age 28.1 cu ft Samsung (it's huge) rated for 645 kwh / year (1.77 kwh/day).

[dandarc]

@GuitarStv

#1 - every 10th house or more often will have one running here in hurricane country. So you will hardly be the only one. #2 - invite inside to enjoy your working AC for a bit.

I am a bit concerned as our back-fence neighbors have put in two trailers that are closer to our house than theirs and the logical spot to put the generator for us is right by the back fence. Suppose this is reason to one day get an EV we can run our house off of (I don't think our Leaf is currently a realistic option - maybe one of the 60KWh versions or if I upgrade the battery down the road or get a longer-range EV of some other kind, but 24KWh probably isn't practical battery-wise even with a relatively low-drawing house situation.

[pecunia]

I've got a noisy generator.  It's another thing I need to fix.  During a power outage some years back, I did a little experiment with it.  I tried to run the refrigerator.  Due to the inrush on motor starting of the refrigerator compressor it immediately knocked the generator out.  How do inverters handle inrush?  Will they need to be overrated for motor starting purposes?

[Syonyk]

Due to the inrush on motor starting of the refrigerator compressor it immediately knocked the generator out.  How do inverters handle inrush?  Will they need to be overrated for motor starting purposes?

Yes, they do.  A typical motor will draw 3-4x running current for startup, and some are worse.  It depends on your inverter, but most have some limited surge capability, and the good ones have a 3x surge capability...  I like my Aims units.  They are not cheap, they are not light, idle draw leaves something to desire, but if they can run it, they can start it.  And I have beat the hell out of my Aims over the past 6 years of it running 24/7 with only a few brief maintenance windows, including running an awful lot of nasty inductive spot welder...

Most inverter generators have zero surge capacity.  What they are rated at, they can start, and there's no overhead to be found.  This is why a lot of people with Honda 2000s or similar are getting rid of them cheap - they might run an air conditioner, but the won't start it.  You can get a soft start kit for the air conditioner, or a bigger generator, and one involves fiddly wiring, one is just more money.

So, uh... if anyone wants a competent solar power trailer for home backup (with enough inverter capacity to start just about anything), I kinda am starting a company to build them...

[RWD]

I question whether I’d be brave enough to power my home with my EV - particularly if it was a primary vehicle. If the power didn’t return with a couple of days (or less) I’d have a dead car and still no power.

Maybe you'd feel differently if your EV had solar panels? (too bad this is unlikely to ever be sold in the US...)

Solar panels on your house plus a bi-directional charging capable EV could handle extended power outages pretty well, I think.

[Tyson]

Maybe you'd feel differently if your EV had solar panels? (too bad this is unlikely to ever be sold in the US...)

Solar panels on your house plus a bi-directional charging capable EV could handle extended power outages pretty well, I think.

That's amazing. 

[BDWW]

I question whether I’d be brave enough to power my home with my EV - particularly if it was a primary vehicle. If the power didn’t return with a couple of days (or less) I’d have a dead car and still no power.

Maybe you'd feel differently if your EV had solar panels? (too bad this is unlikely to ever be sold in the US...)

Solar panels on your house plus a bi-directional charging capable EV could handle extended power outages pretty well, I think.

That's pretty sweet. Nearing the holy grail of car travel for the masses. If something like this actually works, it could have the potential to reshape society.  A large portion of this thread has been questioning the sustainability of car travel in general.  But if you could actually get a car that travels for free for a reasonable price, the demand might be such that it's range limitations could actually discourage sprawl and ridiculous commutes. Add in all the other momentum behind ebikes, scooters, HSR, and maybe, just maybe the future is looking a bit brighter. 

[LennStar]

I think you don't understand the worst point of cars. It's their existence. How they are in detail does not chance the fact that they are the worst method of individual mobility.
Well, except maybe the heli + private jet combo.

[BDWW]

I'm well aware, as you might gather if read some of my other posts in this thread.  However, we have to deal with the world as it is and hopefully come up with pragmatic solutions that can actually make the future better.

Saying cars very existence is the problem is a not remotely a workable solution. It's about 10 bridges too far for the normal person who balks at the very prospect of a bike lane or the horrors of public transit. 

[Tyson]

I like that new buildouts in Denver are much more focused on local businesses, increased density, and higher walkability.  It's enough that I've been able to convert my own life to having 90% of everything I need within walking distance.  And since I work from home 100% of the time, my need to use my car has dropped precipitously.  It's healthier and (more importantly) cheaper.