Ukraine

[Just Joe]

How do you define noncombatants?

If you're picking up a weapon and shooting people, you're a combatant. That's pretty clear.
If you're not picking up a weapon, but you are active in other ways that advance or enable the fighting, are you really a noncombatant?

If you have wide access to the public and you are calling for war then I think a person loses their non-combatant status.

If Tucker Carlson or Marjorie Taylor Greene riles up conservative voters who then take up arms against their neighbors and coworkers - I think Tucker Carlson and Marjorie Taylor Greene is then partly responsible for the ensuing disaster and murders.

If they continued to inflame the situation and call for more violence then I would hope somebody might take them off of the air in some capacity.

[pecunia]

How do you define noncombatants?

If you're picking up a weapon and shooting people, you're a combatant. That's pretty clear.
If you're not picking up a weapon, but you are active in other ways that advance or enable the fighting, are you really a noncombatant?

If you have wide access to the public and you are calling for war then I think a person loses their non-combatant status.

If Tucker Carlson or Marjorie Taylor Greene riles up conservative voters who then take up arms against their neighbors and coworkers - I think Tucker Carlson and Marjorie Taylor Greene is then partly responsible for the ensuing disaster and murders.

If they continued to inflame the situation and call for more violence then I would hope somebody might take them off of the air in some capacity.

Well - That's a gnarly can of worms.  Guys in charge could shut down folks free speech by saying they were a combatant or even worse do like they do in Russia and take them out.  I guess this is one of those grey area things.

[lost_in_the_endless_aisle]

How do you define noncombatants?

If you're picking up a weapon and shooting people, you're a combatant. That's pretty clear.
If you're not picking up a weapon, but you are active in other ways that advance or enable the fighting, are you really a noncombatant?

If you have wide access to the public and you are calling for war then I think a person loses their non-combatant status.

If Tucker Carlson or Marjorie Taylor Greene riles up conservative voters who then take up arms against their neighbors and coworkers - I think Tucker Carlson and Marjorie Taylor Greene is then partly responsible for the ensuing disaster and murders.

If they continued to inflame the situation and call for more violence then I would hope somebody might take them off of the air in some capacity.

This is ridiculous; by this logic, someone maybe should go out and target Ken Pollack with a car bomb. Or maybe the US should bomb Germany for its ongoing purchases of Russian gas, which is helping fund its invasion?

Not to mention Dugin's influence in Russia is often overstated, while his daughter was barely a blip.

[Abe]

It seemed the Dugins were good at promoting other people’s sons being used to fuel a fire. Surprise! that fire burnt them. Don’t play with fire.

We like to pretend that wars have rules, but that is not really true. Civilian collateral damage is a mainstay of modern war due to the firepower involved. Anyone who promotes invasion of another country will ultimately be at risk of the consequences. we can imagine a “courteous” war being fought, but that is looking at the world with rose-tinted glasses. Better to not start a fight.

It would’ve been better that they were “extradited” to Ukraine for a trial, though. Revenge killings aren’t going to help their cause.

[gooki]

I don't think it's right to kill noncombatants with car bombs - but I surely will not cry about those two. Somewhen I watched 10 minutes with father and also seen that video before and I was close to vomiting.

The issue of non combatants doesn't really apply here. Russian agents killing Russian citizens is an entirely separate issue that occurs even in non war time.

[Just Joe]

How do you define noncombatants?

If you're picking up a weapon and shooting people, you're a combatant. That's pretty clear.
If you're not picking up a weapon, but you are active in other ways that advance or enable the fighting, are you really a noncombatant?

If you have wide access to the public and you are calling for war then I think a person loses their non-combatant status.

If Tucker Carlson or Marjorie Taylor Greene riles up conservative voters who then take up arms against their neighbors and coworkers - I think Tucker Carlson and Marjorie Taylor Greene is then partly responsible for the ensuing disaster and murders.

If they continued to inflame the situation and call for more violence then I would hope somebody might take them off of the air in some capacity.

This is ridiculous; by this logic, someone maybe should go out and target Ken Pollack with a car bomb. Or maybe the US should bomb Germany for its ongoing purchases of Russian gas, which is helping fund its invasion?

Not to mention Dugin's influence in Russia is often overstated, while his daughter was barely a blip.

I think people like Pollack take a risk of someone from a targeted country coming after them. I wonder if it keeps him awake at night.

Edit: Dugin seems more like a TC / MTG hack that is firmly rooted in rumor and BS than an intelligence analyst that presumably relies on facts like Pollack. Hacks are very dangerous b/c they make up shit that gets the under-educated all riled up. Its interesting when karma and consequence comes to visit a hack. See Alex Jones for a recent example on this side of the ocean.

[lost_in_the_endless_aisle]

How do you define noncombatants?

If you're picking up a weapon and shooting people, you're a combatant. That's pretty clear.
If you're not picking up a weapon, but you are active in other ways that advance or enable the fighting, are you really a noncombatant?

If you have wide access to the public and you are calling for war then I think a person loses their non-combatant status.

If Tucker Carlson or Marjorie Taylor Greene riles up conservative voters who then take up arms against their neighbors and coworkers - I think Tucker Carlson and Marjorie Taylor Greene is then partly responsible for the ensuing disaster and murders.

If they continued to inflame the situation and call for more violence then I would hope somebody might take them off of the air in some capacity.

This is ridiculous; by this logic, someone maybe should go out and target Ken Pollack with a car bomb. Or maybe the US should bomb Germany for its ongoing purchases of Russian gas, which is helping fund its invasion?

Not to mention Dugin's influence in Russia is often overstated, while his daughter was barely a blip.

I think people like Pollack take a risk of someone from a targeted country coming after them. I wonder if it keeps him awake at night.

Edit: Dugin seems more like a TC / MTG hack that is firmly rooted in rumor and BS than an intelligence analyst that presumably relies on facts like Pollack. Hacks are very dangerous b/c they make up shit that gets the under-educated all riled up. Its interesting when karma and consequence comes to visit a hack. See Alex Jones for a recent example on this side of the ocean.

This is actually a funny comment because what you're doing is judging Pollack--a Westerner--from a Western perspective, then judging Dugin--a non-Westerner--from a Western perspective. A lot of what Dugin has written has resonated in Russia and outside of it precisely because it doesn't follow the strict Western analytical framework that Dugin at one point labeled "liberal totalitarianism" (and which is an important motivating factor behind Dugin's The Fourth Political Theory). Pollack, in your view, played by the warmongering rules (set by whom?) by relying on "facts" (like WMDs!), but facts alone don't constitute any sort of argument; i.e., the Is/Ought problem. Meanwhile, Dugin doesn't play by these same rules by instead appealing to quasi-religious notions of national spirit and Dasein that make more sense in certain non-Western frames of reference. If we decide both are wrong (for different reasons), is being wrong a crime? And if it is, given the weighty matters involved, then why should the two men be treated differently?

Note that I'm not arguing that Dugin is right about Ukraine; rather I'm pointing out that it's far more instructive to interpret his views in the proper context. It's the same problem Stephen Bannon had in the US where he was caricatured before he was understood by the Smug Class (I don't know if Bannon will ever be relevant again, but some of the motivating factors behind him are and will be; this PBS Frontline interview provides an excellent overview of Bannonism).

[pecunia]

Dasein is a German word that means "being there" or "presence", and is often translated into English with the word "existence". It is a fundamental concept in the existential philosophy of Martin Heidegger. Heidegger uses the expression Dasein to refer to the experience of being that is peculiar to human beings.

Dasein sounds like it could be likened in Midwestern parlance as the concept of BS.  On the other hand, it could be linked to chi.

[LennStar]

Looks the special operation needs fresh blood.

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1562805942562852865

Putin signs decree to expand Russian armed forces to 2 million.

The decree increases the armed forces by 137,000 personnel, Russian state news agency Ria Novosti reported.

Not artillery rain, but human wave is next tactic.

[Sibley]

With what people? They were having trouble meeting their conscription quotas.

[LaineyAZ]

With what people? They were having trouble meeting their conscription quotas.

I wondered that too - maybe mercenaries?

[LennStar]

With what people? They were having trouble meeting their conscription quotas.

I wondered that too - maybe mercenaries?

There are always youngsters from the poor Eastern minorities that will go after a bit of fame and three times the average income of their home town.

[pecunia]

With what people? They were having trouble meeting their conscription quotas.

I wondered that too - maybe mercenaries?

There are always youngsters from the poor Eastern minorities that will go after a bit of fame and three times the average income of their home town.

And the news is that North Korea is willing to provide labor.  The inexpensive North Korean labor would fill some jobs of young Russians.  Their choices would be limited and joining the military would be an option.

[SunnyDays]

I also heard that they were letting prisoners out of jail and sending them into battle.

[Travis]

With what people? They were having trouble meeting their conscription quotas.

I wondered that too - maybe mercenaries?

There are always youngsters from the poor Eastern minorities that will go after a bit of fame and three times the average income of their home town.

The "volunteer battalions" being formed are mostly men in their 40s and 50s. The younger crowd who could be enticed to enlist have already signed up, and its still not enough to replace losses let alone grow by another 140k.

[zolotiyeruki]

Reports this morning of a Ukraine offensive kicking off in the Kherson region.  As in, troops actually advancing, taking territory, Russian troops falling back, etc.

If it turns into a rout, the Dnieper river (and its lack of bridges) is gonna make things awful dicey for the Russians.

[Sibley]

Reports this morning of a Ukraine offensive kicking off in the Kherson region.  As in, troops actually advancing, taking territory, Russian troops falling back, etc.

If it turns into a rout, the Dnieper river (and its lack of bridges) is gonna make things awful dicey for the Russians.

Fingers crossed for Ukraine. Hope they can kick the orcs off their land.

[GuitarStv]

Reports this morning of a Ukraine offensive kicking off in the Kherson region.  As in, troops actually advancing, taking territory, Russian troops falling back, etc.

If it turns into a rout, the Dnieper river (and its lack of bridges) is gonna make things awful dicey for the Russians.

Fingers crossed for Ukraine. Hope they can kick the orcs off their land.

I'd like to see Ukraine annex an area of Russia for use as a demilitarized zone in the future.

[Just Joe]

I'd like to see Ukraine annex an area of Russia for use as a demilitarized zone in the future.

Agreed! All the ways Putin and his people would spin that though...

[GuitarStv]

I'd like to see Ukraine annex an area of Russia for use as a demilitarized zone in the future.

Agreed! All the ways Putin and his people would spin that though...

I think we can all stop caring about how Putin is going to lie about outcomes.  It'll happen no matter what ends up taking place.  Actually losing territory when invading another country though might be a good deterrent against future aggression.

[LennStar]

Reports this morning of a Ukraine offensive kicking off in the Kherson region.  As in, troops actually advancing, taking territory, Russian troops falling back, etc.

If it turns into a rout, the Dnieper river (and its lack of bridges) is gonna make things awful dicey for the Russians.

Fingers crossed for Ukraine. Hope they can kick the orcs off their land.

I'd like to see Ukraine annex an area of Russia for use as a demilitarized zone in the future.

Won't happen.
A) It would overextend Ukrainian forces, they can't hold that area for any long time (3km is not enough with normal artillery ranges in the 20s km and range artillery 40+)
B) It would put current Ukrainian advantages against them as disadvantages (like supply lines, local support)
C) The support in the West for regaining their territory is big, gaining more not so much
D) Russian military doctrine. They might actually really use nukes.

[pecunia]

Reports this morning of a Ukraine offensive kicking off in the Kherson region.  As in, troops actually advancing, taking territory, Russian troops falling back, etc.

If it turns into a rout, the Dnieper river (and its lack of bridges) is gonna make things awful dicey for the Russians.

Fingers crossed for Ukraine. Hope they can kick the orcs off their land.

I'd like to see Ukraine annex an area of Russia for use as a demilitarized zone in the future.

Won't happen.
A) It would overextend Ukrainian forces, they can't hold that area for any long time (3km is not enough with normal artillery ranges in the 20s km and range artillery 40+)
B) It would put current Ukrainian advantages against them as disadvantages (like supply lines, local support)
C) The support in the West for regaining their territory is big, gaining more not so much
D) Russian military doctrine. They might actually really use nukes.

It would give the liar Putin the excuse for full military mobilization and could actually rouse sentiment in the heavily propagandized Russian populace.  There have been reports that sentiment does not currently favor the "special military operation."

[sixwings]

yeah ukraine invading russia is probably close to 0%. Wasn't there a bunch of agreements about not using the western weapons to attack russia territory, only for defense/taking back their territory? Ukraine can reclaim donbass and crimea and will have to stop there. There's enough examples throughout history that should deter any ukrainian leadership ideas on invading russia.

[Just Joe]

Any chance the UN security council would send in peace keepers to protect any or all of Ukraine? Similar to Yugoslavia in the 1990s.

[zolotiyeruki]

Any chance the UN security council would send in peace keepers to protect any or all of Ukraine? Similar to Yugoslavia in the 1990s.

When Russia holds a veto?  Nope, no chance.

Although, by the time this is all over, Russia may be the party requiring protection, given their losses in Ukraine to this point.

[former player]

Any chance the UN security council would send in peace keepers to protect any or all of Ukraine? Similar to Yugoslavia in the 1990s.

Putin would have to agree. He might, as 1) from his point of view a UN peacekeeping force would be preferable to a NATO one, and 2) he could spin it to the Russian people as being there to keep the bloodthirsty Ukrainians from waging war on Russians.

[LennStar]

Any chance the UN security council would send in peace keepers to protect any or all of Ukraine? Similar to Yugoslavia in the 1990s.

Putin would have to agree. He might, as 1) from his point of view a UN peacekeeping force would be preferable to a NATO one, and 2) he could spin it to the Russian people as being there to keep the bloodthirsty Ukrainians from waging war on Russians.

And even if he did not need to agree, nobody is going to put blue helmets against such a big army. It may not be as strong as everybody thought, but it still in the TOP 10. I don't see any country putting thousands of troops (and billions of dollar) into this in the middle of all the shit this year. Corona is still bringing hospitals on the border of collapse, there is of course the war and the biggest heat events so far are also destroying power and food production on a big scale. Have you looked to China and Pakistan for example?
But relax, it's going to be one of the best summers of the future.

[Tyson]

I think the whole mess in Ukraine and Russia should put the world on notice that we need to get off gas & oil ASAP.  The world was already heading in that direction, hopefully this supercharges those changes.

[zolotiyeruki]

I think the whole mess in Ukraine and Russia should put the world on notice that we need to get off gas & oil ASAP.  The world was already heading in that direction, hopefully this supercharges those changes.

I don't know that it's "oil and gas" per se, but perhaps "oil and gas from nations with a tendency towards un-neighborly behavior." The US, Mexico, and Canada seem to get along pretty well. 

[pecunia]

I think the whole mess in Ukraine and Russia should put the world on notice that we need to get off gas & oil ASAP.  The world was already heading in that direction, hopefully this supercharges those changes.

I don't know that it's "oil and gas" per se, but perhaps "oil and gas from nations with a tendency towards un-neighborly behavior." The US, Mexico, and Canada seem to get along pretty well.

Some don't believe the global warming thing will bite many where it hurts.  Lots of smart scientists do and they spend all their time studying it.  So, what did Lennstar say about this Summer?  "But relax, it's going to be one of the best summers of the future."

It kind of reminds me of the guy sitting on a tree limb and happily sawing the part towards the tree away.

This war may be a good time to get serious about global warming.

[Telecaster]

I don't know that it's "oil and gas" per se, but perhaps "oil and gas from nations with a tendency towards un-neighborly behavior." The US, Mexico, and Canada seem to get along pretty well.

If I'm not mistaken, the US, Canada, and Mexico are all net exporters.   The problem is that oil is fungible and oil prices are set on a world market.  So any disruption in the world's oil supply causes prices to spike everywhere, including the US and Canada.  And we know from past recent history, oil shocks can either directly cause or partly cause recessions.   If you figure in the lost economic output from these recessions, it is very expensive indeed to be dependent on fossil fuels.   To that end, we've parked our military in the Middle East for decades hoping to keep oil flowing smoothly, with arguable success and enormous cost.    But it is very clear our economic well being means not being dependent on fossil fuels.  If it were up to me, I would quadruple down on the Green New Deal.  It is much cheaper than that status quo. 

[lost_in_the_endless_aisle]

I think the whole mess in Ukraine and Russia should put the world on notice that we need to get off gas & oil ASAP.  The world was already heading in that direction, hopefully this supercharges those changes.

I don't think that will happen. The US's response was to release petroleum from the stockpile to lower prices (because the most important midterm elections in the history of the universe are coming up?), while Germany--having otherwise committed geopolitical suicide--is going back to coal. My prediction is that there will be potentially grand-sounding legislation, but it will be little more than a thousand of incoherent subsidies that don't add up to much in terms of shifting price signals. Other strategies, like carbon capture, are also targets of psychotic hysteria. Recall also during COVID that in Europe, the most climate-conscious region, airlines were flying empty flights because of rules around airport gate allocations. Everyone is deranged and confused, and no one wants higher prices.

[Travis]

So far it appears that a handful of villages have been liberated (locations both Ukrainian and Russian sources agree on). The bridges across the river are still being hit, probably in an effort to slow down reinforcement or escape. Unconfirmed report that the barge that has been used in lieu of the bridge may have also been damaged. The reporting is rather chaotic right now, but Russian sources reported seeing Ukrainian armor in the lead of at least one of the attacks which hasn't happened since April. It's night time now, so the next thing to watch for is if either side brought night-fighting capabilities with them and if Ukraine can sustain this attack around the clock. On top of this offensive, there are reports that Ukraine HIMAR'd a yacht club full of Russian officers.

[zolotiyeruki]

I think part of the Ukrainian tactics is to make the bridges passable only on foot, forcing the Russians to abandon their equipment.  The traffic jam at any remaining Dnieper River crossings could be a sight to behold.  Ukraine has gained great advantage by prioritizing Russian vehicles, particularly armored ones over the last 6 months.

I've heard that the West has been supplying night vision equipment to Ukraine ever since the 2014 invasion of Crimea, and that Ukraine, in particular their special forces, have a whole lot more of it than the frontline Russian troops.

[Travis]

I've heard that the West has been supplying night vision equipment to Ukraine ever since the 2014 invasion of Crimea, and that Ukraine, in particular their special forces, have a whole lot more of it than the frontline Russian troops.

Ukraine's special operations forces are very well equipped; however, they're probably short 100,000 NVGs for the rest of their army. It's a critical and expensive piece of kit.

[LennStar]

Judging by where the fights seem to happen, I would guess that the Ukrainians are trying to push the Russians at least across the Dnipr and on the other side get an attack going to Mariupol.

If they succeed the supply efforts for the Russians in the South would be in even greater distress, making it maybe possible to rush at least to the Crimea borders, herding Russian soldiers there maybe even without heavy equipment, which could be reused by Ukrainian reserve troops.

That Russians Shoigu called the offensive an utter failure makes hope, since he of course is lying.

[Travis]

Judging by where the fights seem to happen, I would guess that the Ukrainians are trying to push the Russians at least across the Dnipr and on the other side get an attack going to Mariupol.

If they succeed the supply efforts for the Russians in the South would be in even greater distress, making it maybe possible to rush at least to the Crimea borders, herding Russian soldiers there maybe even without heavy equipment, which could be reused by Ukrainian reserve troops.

That Russians Shoigu called the offensive an utter failure makes hope, since he of course is lying.

Part of Ukraine's strategy so far has been making the bridges across the Dnipr at Kherson unusable. If they can take the region up the river they're unlikely to cross it themselves. Shifting everything to the Zap region for a later showdown would probably be the next phase.

[Just Joe]

New headline: "Head of Russian oil giant Lukoil dies after falling from hospital window, reports state media"

The chairman of Russian oil and gas giant Lukoil — which spoke out against Russia's invasion of Ukraine — has died after falling out of a hospital window, state news agencies RIA Novosti and TASS reported Thursday.

https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-09-01-22/

[GuitarStv]

People who speak out against Putin have historically been quite unlucky in Russia.

[LennStar]

I am fully convinced the window is a sort of meme in the FSB. Like the "heroic thiefs" would leave a card with their name before they steal something, the FSB will make their customers leave through the window.

[Glenstache]

I am fully convinced the window is a sort of meme in the FSB. Like the "heroic thiefs" would leave a card with their name before they steal something, the FSB will make their customers leave through the window.

Given a choice, I'd take the window over the polonium poisoning.

[GuitarStv]

I am fully convinced the window is a sort of meme in the FSB. Like the "heroic thiefs" would leave a card with their name before they steal something, the FSB will make their customers leave through the window.

Given a choice, I'd take the window over the polonium poisoning.

Do they take requests now?

[Radagast]

I'd guess that Ukraine is succeeding, given the Oryx list losses over the past week are predominantly Russian, and most Russian losses are likely not public yet. If Ukraine were failing the list would be full of Ukrainian losses just like when the Russian invasion failed in March the list filled with Russian losses.

I think it is stupid that Russia is trying to hold Kherson. It is such an obviously losing position, and has no strategic value I can think of since they weren't able to advance farther. It is the last serious remnant of their failed February stupidity. You can basically read the sad stories of the Russian survivors now: "the river was low and warm when our unit entered the city across a large bridge in the sunshine. When we left, it was on a barely floating wooden table, the water was deep fast and cold, and the snowflakes were heavier than the shells that were falling all around our unit which already had only 20% of its men surviving." Do Russians not read? Cause anyone who has read anything would have known that sentence would emerge two months ago. I think their strategist slept through Strategy 101 in addition to reading anything.

Consider a popular children's book Mossflower, second in Brian Jacques Redwall series. Weasels and wildcats occupied the forest years ago, introducing a reign of terror. After a summer and spring of irregular warfare, the mice and moles drive them back to their stronghold on the banks of the river. A conversation of European climate and its effects on river flow in different seasons ensues, and then the mice and moles systematically destroy the supplies and fortifications of the weasels and wildcats first with flooding, and then with long range artillery supplied by a foreigner. Eventually the demoralized wildcats and weasels abandon their armor and float across the river on overturned tables and shutters and are easily killed or captured, with many drowning. So am I saying the Russians demonstrate a much poorer understanding of strategy than is conveyed in popular children's books? Yes, I am definitely saying exactly that.

[pecunia]

I'd guess that Ukraine is succeeding, given the Oryx list losses over the past week are predominantly Russian, and most Russian losses are likely not public yet. If Ukraine were failing the list would be full of Ukrainian losses just like when the Russian invasion failed in March the list filled with Russian losses.

I think it is stupid that Russia is trying to hold Kherson. It is such an obviously losing position, and has no strategic value I can think of since they weren't able to advance farther. It is the last serious remnant of their failed February stupidity. You can basically read the sad stories of the Russian survivors now: "the river was low and warm when our unit entered the city across a large bridge in the sunshine. When we left, it was on a barely floating wooden table, the water was deep fast and cold, and the snowflakes were heavier than the shells that were falling all around our unit which already had only 20% of its men surviving." Do Russians not read? Cause anyone who has read anything would have known that sentence would emerge two months ago. I think their strategist slept through Strategy 101 in addition to reading anything.

Consider a popular children's book Mossflower, second in Brian Jacques Redwall series. Weasels and wildcats occupied the forest years ago, introducing a reign of terror. After a summer and spring of irregular warfare, the mice and moles drive them back to their stronghold on the banks of the river. A conversation of European climate and its effects on river flow in different seasons ensues, and then the mice and moles systematically destroy the supplies and fortifications of the weasels and wildcats first with flooding, and then with long range artillery supplied by a foreigner. Eventually the demoralized wildcats and weasels abandon their armor and float across the river on overturned tables and shutters and are easily killed or captured, with many drowning. So am I saying the Russians demonstrate a much poorer understanding of strategy than is conveyed in popular children's books? Yes, I am definitely saying exactly that.

Is there a possibility that they could simply surrender?  It has been reported that their top leaders have left the area.  I would think that if the scenario is as you describe, they would quickly realize they have been abandoned.

[gooki]

Surender is possible and there's at least one confirmed act of surender from the Kherson offensive so far. There may be some reluctance for Russian forces to surender as they are well aware how Russia treats POWs and might incorrectly assume Ukraine would treat them the same way.

[LennStar]

Or worse, if you think of the propaganda they have been fed.

But you really have "popular" children's books which depict real war? Where are you? Russia or USA?

[NorthernIkigai]

In Estonian book stores, which have a wide selection of books in both Estonian and Russian (almost a quarter of the inhabitants speak Russian as their native language), I’ve been amazed to see the topics of picture books for small children: The Estonian ones have the usual animals, fire engines and other vehicles, famous landmarks from across the world, etc. The Russian ones have these, and also whole books just on tanks or guns! It starts early.

[Radagast]

Or worse, if you think of the propaganda they have been fed.

But you really have "popular" children's books which depict real war? Where are you? Russia or USA?

US, author was British, here it is on German ;)
https://www.amazon.de/Brian-Jacques/dp/3570260224/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=2H0B6K3NP19IC&keywords=Kotir%2C+die+Burg+des+Schreckens&qid=1662277105&sprefix=kotir+die+burg+des+schreckens%2Caps%2C530&sr=8-1

Did any of my child hood books not depict war is the real question. I think maybe 25% did not. Lord of the Rings, Star Trek novels, golden compass, Harry Potter, basically war mostly. For non fiction I enjoyed ready about castles and wars.

[Imma]

Or worse, if you think of the propaganda they have been fed.

But you really have "popular" children's books which depict real war? Where are you? Russia or USA?

Here in the Netherlands, I think very few books I read were not about WWII. Maybe the youngest generation is no longer reading war books, WWII is obviously very long ago for them, but in the 90s almost all popular books were about the German occupation. It didn't feel like it was that long ago because it was all our grandparents talked about as well.

[LennStar]

Or worse, if you think of the propaganda they have been fed.

But you really have "popular" children's books which depict real war? Where are you? Russia or USA?

US, author was British, here it is on German ;)
https://www.amazon.de/Brian-Jacques/dp/3570260224/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=2H0B6K3NP19IC&keywords=Kotir%2C+die+Burg+des+Schreckens&qid=1662277105&sprefix=kotir+die+burg+des+schreckens%2Caps%2C530&sr=8-1

Did any of my child hood books not depict war is the real question. I think maybe 25% did not. Lord of the Rings, Star Trek novels, golden compass, Harry Potter, basically war mostly. For non fiction I enjoyed ready about castles and wars.

Okay, not what I consider children's books ;) I was thinking of books for ages in single digits.