Give Up the Hooch: Booze Free for as long as you please!

[Metalcat]

I am starting small by committing to 5 days without alcohol. Will assess from there.  We have developed a fairly regular daily drink habit and I've noticed more headaches/fogginess in the morning so would like to quell that (and also help my energy improve)

It's been 4 nights without any alcohol. Not a problem so far. Definitely more inclined to have a drink if I'm around others who are drinking but I've been solo this entire time so hasn't been an issue. Will definitely keep it up over the weekend as my SO doesn't come home until Tuesday so might be a nice chance to reset and then see how I feel moving forward.

Well done!

As I've posted many times, for me the big shift happened when I hit 10 days. No idea why, but at 10 days it was like "how did I not realize how doable this was???"

If I remember correctly, around 10 days is the last of the alcohol clearing your system, and there’s neuron regrow that bursts at 30 and 180 days, which is when a lot of relapse happen but if you get through them it’s easier to keep on going. After a year, the health risks are basically back to the same as non-drinkers and at two years brain functions are back to baseline too.

Yep, that's about the rough timeline as far as I've read, and definitely aligns with my experience.

[wenchsenior]

Same experience here. First 2 weeks were a real bitch in terms of cravings and anxiety and I also had trouble falling asleep the first week or 10 days. Then things got notably easier. I got a huge mood boost around 30 days, but got regular triggered thoughts, brief cravings for the first couple years; now they are rare. (It's been about 3 and half years since I quit the daily 'couple glasses of wine' type drinking).

[Serendip]

Thanks for the encouragement. So far so good. I have a few more days before my hubby is home and then he’s only home for one night then gone again for three so I’m going to keep up the experiment.

I have some homemade ‘shrubs’ (herb & spices are steeped  in honey/apple cider vinegar then strained, the juice can be sweet and bitter at the same time) which I add to fizzy water. Really satisfies the craving for something refreshing :)

[rivendale]

How's everyone doing? Any thoughts regarding the upcoming holiday season?

 I have been alcohol free for roughly 2.5 years or so. I stopped for a few reasons. I felt that drinking was becoming a regular occurrence and I didn't like that. I didn't like the disruption in my sleep. And, I knew it was a negative factor in regards to my physical goals. It helped that my social circle is comprised mainly of non drinkers so I didn't experience any pressure in that regard.

Lately, I have been thinking of trying some non-alcoholic beers, just to add some variety of flavors, in an easy to consume manner. I just drink water, sparkling water, tea and coffee now. Though every once in great while I will come across a mocktail at a restaurant that sounds intriguing enough to order.

[wenchsenior]

How's everyone doing? Any thoughts regarding the upcoming holiday season?

 I have been alcohol free for roughly 2.5 years or so. I stopped for a few reasons. I felt that drinking was becoming a regular occurrence and I didn't like that. I didn't like the disruption in my sleep. And, I knew it was a negative factor in regards to my physical goals. It helped that my social circle is comprised mainly of non drinkers so I didn't experience any pressure in that regard.

Lately, I have been thinking of trying some non-alcoholic beers, just to add some variety of flavors, in an easy to consume manner. I just drink water, sparkling water, tea and coffee now. Though every once in great while I will come across a mocktail at a restaurant that sounds intriguing enough to order.

I've had only a handful of drinks in the past year and a half. Just had a fancy dinner out to celebrate Samhain/Halloween on a short getaway with my husband. Had one glass of wine (restaurant pour, so probably a bit more than 1 serving). And I got so drunk off that one glass! OMG, my tolerance has fallen SO much, and while the initial buzz was pleasant, the drunk lingered for hours and it made me useless for the rest of the night. Then of course I was super dehydrated and mildly headachy when I woke up the next morning (just in time to do a 7 mile hike LOL).

My main takeaway is that I really have to be careful of any intake at all on an empty stomach anymore; and also, HOW DID I DO THIS TO MYSELF EVERY DAY FOR DECADES?  Like, how did I not register how much this was affecting my energy level and my hydration and so on back then? It's crazy what I thought was 'normal' feeling, versus what I now realize is actually 'normal' feeling. Ugh.

[Cassie]

I love NA beer by athletic brewing company. They are delicious and running wild is my favorite. When I went to Ireland I decided I needed to try a Irish beer and had a similar experience to WS.

[wenchsenior]

I love NA beer by athletic brewing company. They are delicious and running wild is my favorite. When I went to Ireland I decided I needed to try a Irish beer and had a similar experience to WS.

Athletic Brewing is the BEST. And I say this as someone who was never even that into beer.

[StarBright]

Does anyone have any specific de-alcoholized wine recommendations?

My grocery store had Fre Merlot. While the smell is pretty close to correct, the taste was a little too close to cranberry juice past its sell-by date for me to re-purchase.

[GuitarStv]

Well, I've been booze free for five months now.  I was never a heavy drinker (maybe a gin and tonic once a week or so), so giving it up wasn't any sort of hardship.  I can report not feeling any different than when I was drinking.  The weights I lift are all around the same numbers and the distance I ride on my bike is the same.

My suspicion is that at the levels I usually drink there really isn't any impact on my life being a regular drinker or a teetotaler.

[Tyson]

I just hit 9 years sober.

[bananas]

How's everyone doing? Any thoughts regarding the upcoming holiday season?

 I have been alcohol free for roughly 2.5 years or so. I stopped for a few reasons. I felt that drinking was becoming a regular occurrence and I didn't like that. I didn't like the disruption in my sleep. And, I knew it was a negative factor in regards to my physical goals. It helped that my social circle is comprised mainly of non drinkers so I didn't experience any pressure in that regard.

Lately, I have been thinking of trying some non-alcoholic beers, just to add some variety of flavors, in an easy to consume manner. I just drink water, sparkling water, tea and coffee now. Though every once in great while I will come across a mocktail at a restaurant that sounds intriguing enough to order.

I'm now 33 days AF and grateful for this thread.

Rivendale, I stopped for the same reasons as you -- I really started hating the sleep disruption, the frequency of drinking (which felt increasingly unhealthy in a way I couldn't exactly articulate), and it has been a negative for my physical goals, too; the empty calories inhibit weight loss, and I also find post-workout recovery is much worse when I've been drinking.

My biggest challenge is that my social circle consists of several heavy drinkers. Not sure how that's going to play out yet, but DH and I are trying to branch out and make some new friends who don't care much about alcohol. We recently joined a running group, and I love the fact that it meets every week and everyone is super chatty, but alcohol is not a part of it at all.

[Metalcat]

Well, I've been booze free for five months now.  I was never a heavy drinker (maybe a gin and tonic once a week or so), so giving it up wasn't any sort of hardship.  I can report not feeling any different than when I was drinking.  The weights I lift are all around the same numbers and the distance I ride on my bike is the same.

My suspicion is that at the levels I usually drink there really isn't any impact on my life being a regular drinker or a teetotaler.

Yeah, a drink a week isn't likely to have any notable impact on your well being, so I would be shocked if you felt any difference unless a single drink substantially impacted your sleep that one night each week, which is plausible, but obviously not your reality.

[Metalcat]

Does anyone have any specific de-alcoholized wine recommendations?

My grocery store had Fre Merlot. While the smell is pretty close to correct, the taste was a little too close to cranberry juice past its sell-by date for me to re-purchase.

Unfortunately the process of dealcoholizing the wine strips it of most of its flavour, so none of it will ever taste like wine. I'm not sure why they can do it for beer and not wine, although I know there are multiple ways to dealcoholize things, so perhaps it's in the technique uses.

However, I just tried a wine alternative called Proxies, and it was AWESOME! They kind of mimic the complex flavour of wine with wine grapes, coffee, herbs, etc. It in no way tastes like wine, but it is definitely a nice, complex beverage for slow, deliberate sipping.

[Metalcat]

I just hit 9 years sober.

CONGRATS! I'm creeping up on 3 years.

[Tyson]

I just hit 9 years sober.

CONGRATS! I'm creeping up on 3 years.

Thanks :). 

Also congrats on getting to nearly 3 years.  IME, the first 2 years were by far the hardest, and every year got easier and easier after that.  So, hopefully you have something similar, where the hardest days are behind you already.

[Metalcat]

I just hit 9 years sober.

CONGRATS! I'm creeping up on 3 years.

Thanks :). 

Also congrats on getting to nearly 3 years.  IME, the first 2 years were by far the hardest, and every year got easier and easier after that.  So, hopefully you have something similar, where the hardest days are behind you already.

For sure. I think we were talking earlier about how at the 2 years mark there's really a shift. I know there was for me, I went from someone who quit drinking to someone who just doesn't drink.

Like I can't even connect anymore to the past reality of craving wine every evening. Totally foreign concept.

[mspym]

I just hit 9 years sober.

CONGRATS! I'm creeping up on 3 years.

Thanks :). 

Also congrats on getting to nearly 3 years.  IME, the first 2 years were by far the hardest, and every year got easier and easier after that.  So, hopefully you have something similar, where the hardest days are behind you already.

For sure. I think we were talking earlier about how at the 2 years mark there's really a shift. I know there was for me, I went from someone who quit drinking to someone who just doesn't drink.

Like I can't even connect anymore to the past reality of craving wine every evening. Totally foreign concept.

High-fives @Tyson!
I've passed 5 years and yeah, around the two year mark my relationship to drinking changed to just Not A Thing anymore. It was a real paradigm shift.

[iluvzbeach]

Congrats @Tyson! Big accomplishment.

[Tyson]

Thanks all!  It's funny, I didn't realize it was 9 years, I thought it was 7, but when I went and looked back at my jail/court time it said 2013 and I thought "hell, that's 9 years ago.".  Felt pretty good, honestly.

[Metalcat]

Thanks all!  It's funny, I didn't realize it was 9 years, I thought it was 7, but when I went and looked back at my jail/court time it said 2013 and I thought "hell, that's 9 years ago.".  Felt pretty good, honestly.

I feel like a lot of people kind of lost 2 years with the pandemic. I've noted a number of people referring to things as being a certain number of years ago and being short by 2.

[GuitarStv]

Well, I've been booze free for five months now.  I was never a heavy drinker (maybe a gin and tonic once a week or so), so giving it up wasn't any sort of hardship.  I can report not feeling any different than when I was drinking.  The weights I lift are all around the same numbers and the distance I ride on my bike is the same.

My suspicion is that at the levels I usually drink there really isn't any impact on my life being a regular drinker or a teetotaler.

Yeah, a drink a week isn't likely to have any notable impact on your well being, so I would be shocked if you felt any difference unless a single drink substantially impacted your sleep that one night each week, which is plausible, but obviously not your reality.

It really makes me wonder if addiction is more closely tied to behavioural habits or genetic predispositions.  It is a real struggle for me to give up sugary things (chocolate, cookies, cake, donuts, candy).  I've rarely been able to last more than a couple weeks with none at all.  Infinitely harder than kicking booze - and I do actually feel better when kicking sugar.  :P

[LightStache]

How's everyone doing? Any thoughts regarding the upcoming holiday season?

 I have been alcohol free for roughly 2.5 years or so. I stopped for a few reasons. I felt that drinking was becoming a regular occurrence and I didn't like that. I didn't like the disruption in my sleep. And, I knew it was a negative factor in regards to my physical goals. It helped that my social circle is comprised mainly of non drinkers so I didn't experience any pressure in that regard.

Lately, I have been thinking of trying some non-alcoholic beers, just to add some variety of flavors, in an easy to consume manner. I just drink water, sparkling water, tea and coffee now. Though every once in great while I will come across a mocktail at a restaurant that sounds intriguing enough to order.

I'm now 33 days AF and grateful for this thread.

Rivendale, I stopped for the same reasons as you -- I really started hating the sleep disruption, the frequency of drinking (which felt increasingly unhealthy in a way I couldn't exactly articulate), and it has been a negative for my physical goals, too; the empty calories inhibit weight loss, and I also find post-workout recovery is much worse when I've been drinking.

My biggest challenge is that my social circle consists of several heavy drinkers. Not sure how that's going to play out yet, but DH and I are trying to branch out and make some new friends who don't care much about alcohol. We recently joined a running group, and I love the fact that it meets every week and everyone is super chatty, but alcohol is not a part of it at all.

I had been pulling back over the past year and then stopped about a month ago. I'm not sure if it's renewed energy from not drinking, but I've had some new interesting non-boozers enter my life. OTOH I've had a few issues with my drinking buddies not wanting to hang anymore. Frankly if they can't figure out how to have fun with me without alcohol then losing those friendships is a sacrifice I'm comfortable making. I've also had a few dears friend dramatically affected by alcohol recently so that's galvanizing my attitude.

[wenchsenior]

Well, I've been booze free for five months now.  I was never a heavy drinker (maybe a gin and tonic once a week or so), so giving it up wasn't any sort of hardship.  I can report not feeling any different than when I was drinking.  The weights I lift are all around the same numbers and the distance I ride on my bike is the same.

My suspicion is that at the levels I usually drink there really isn't any impact on my life being a regular drinker or a teetotaler.

Yeah, a drink a week isn't likely to have any notable impact on your well being, so I would be shocked if you felt any difference unless a single drink substantially impacted your sleep that one night each week, which is plausible, but obviously not your reality.

It really makes me wonder if addiction is more closely tied to behavioural habits or genetic predispositions.  It is a real struggle for me to give up sugary things (chocolate, cookies, cake, donuts, candy).  I've rarely been able to last more than a couple weeks with none at all.  Infinitely harder than kicking booze - and I do actually feel better when kicking sugar.  :P

It's both (based on reading several books and taking a short academic course in the neurophysiology of addiction). Sugar/fat combos work on many of the same neurotransmitter receptors as booze and all the other things classified as addictive (all the drugs including weed and alcohol, sugar/fat, sex/porn, gaming/gambling, shopping, internet, etc etc.). Professionals class these all as potentially addictive b/c they trigger the same mechanisms, first neurophysiological, which overstimulates the brain to create neurological feedback loops that in turn support 'habits' as we colloquially call them (in reality, habits are behaviors that are mostly managed by the nucleus accumbens, which is a primitive part of the brain that deals in many of the automatic feedback loops that lead to behaviors that bypass the prefrontal cortex/critical thinking center of the brain).

That's why people in the grip of these strong habits/addictions often feel as if there is 'someone else' indulging the addiction. It's literally mostly handled by a different part of the brain from the one that is thinking: "This is not a good idea for my long term health."

However, while the population as a whole is generally at risk for problematic dependence on addictive substances and behaviors with repeated exposure (bc that's just how human brains work) the particular risk profile for each individual around each particular substance/activity can vary a lot based on genetics, social context, early exposure, frequency of exposure, and which behavior or substance is in question.  But there does seem to be a segment of the population that are genetically super-strong responders when it comes to artificial neurotransmitter response...this is the group with a lot of crossover in problematic addictions (they struggle to control multiple of these things, or they quit one thing only to substitute another thing). Those kind of cases, it's very tough to stay away from these things entirely b/c modern life simply serves them up constantly on a platter, offering endless opportunities for brain hijack.

[Metalcat]

Well, I've been booze free for five months now.  I was never a heavy drinker (maybe a gin and tonic once a week or so), so giving it up wasn't any sort of hardship.  I can report not feeling any different than when I was drinking.  The weights I lift are all around the same numbers and the distance I ride on my bike is the same.

My suspicion is that at the levels I usually drink there really isn't any impact on my life being a regular drinker or a teetotaler.

Yeah, a drink a week isn't likely to have any notable impact on your well being, so I would be shocked if you felt any difference unless a single drink substantially impacted your sleep that one night each week, which is plausible, but obviously not your reality.

It really makes me wonder if addiction is more closely tied to behavioural habits or genetic predispositions.  It is a real struggle for me to give up sugary things (chocolate, cookies, cake, donuts, candy).  I've rarely been able to last more than a couple weeks with none at all.  Infinitely harder than kicking booze - and I do actually feel better when kicking sugar.  :P

If you were never a regular drinker I wouldn't expect you to struggle to give it up. Drug addiction is complex, but it's pretty dose dependent. Even weekend cocaine users often don't struggle to drop the habit.

With alcohol, people usually get into a regular habit socially and then the dose/regularity rate is enough to develop addiction.

Some people are more susceptible to addiction, possibly more susceptible to specific addictions, but overall, we just don't expect addiction from low levels of exposure.

One drink a week barely counts as alcohol exposure.

[FIRE Realtor]

How's everyone doing? Any thoughts regarding the upcoming holiday season?

 I have been alcohol free for roughly 2.5 years or so. I stopped for a few reasons. I felt that drinking was becoming a regular occurrence and I didn't like that. I didn't like the disruption in my sleep. And, I knew it was a negative factor in regards to my physical goals. It helped that my social circle is comprised mainly of non drinkers so I didn't experience any pressure in that regard.

Lately, I have been thinking of trying some non-alcoholic beers, just to add some variety of flavors, in an easy to consume manner. I just drink water, sparkling water, tea and coffee now. Though every once in great while I will come across a mocktail at a restaurant that sounds intriguing enough to order.

I'm now 33 days AF and grateful for this thread.

Rivendale, I stopped for the same reasons as you -- I really started hating the sleep disruption, the frequency of drinking (which felt increasingly unhealthy in a way I couldn't exactly articulate), and it has been a negative for my physical goals, too; the empty calories inhibit weight loss, and I also find post-workout recovery is much worse when I've been drinking.

My biggest challenge is that my social circle consists of several heavy drinkers. Not sure how that's going to play out yet, but DH and I are trying to branch out and make some new friends who don't care much about alcohol. We recently joined a running group, and I love the fact that it meets every week and everyone is super chatty, but alcohol is not a part of it at all.

Echo these exact sentiments - I'm 40 now and while I have been drinking far less than in my 20's, it seems that even a "moderate" night of 3 alcohol units in an evening would leave me feeling less than amazing the next day.  Multiply this by on average 3 nights per week (because it seems like there is always some reason to drink!)  I felt like I was always either drinking or recovering and knew deep down this wasn't the pattern I wanted for my long term health. 

My husband and I have just started 6 weeks alcohol free.  It sounds like nothing, but we've attempted this about a half dozen times over the past few years and always caved after a couple weeks with a "screw this, life is more fun with beer" attitude.  Only on day 3 now, ha, so we will see how this time around goes. 

[rosarugosa]

I'm 48 days into the 30-day Alcohol Experiment.  I'm grateful to this thread which I've followed for awhile, especially for pointing me in the direction of the Annie Grace website.
Coincidentally, we bumped into a wonderful alternative to red wine. It's a traditional Jamaican beverage made from brewed hibiscus.  I laughed when I saw on the label "Tastes better than wine," but damn if they aren't telling the truth!  I had a case shipped to me from Brooklyn. They also have some great mocktail recipes on their website.  I highly recommend!
https://brooklynbrewedsorrel.com/
I will add that my preferred red was Cabernet.  I would describe the Sorrel as rich, complex, and not too sweet.

[Metalcat]

How's everyone doing? Any thoughts regarding the upcoming holiday season?

 I have been alcohol free for roughly 2.5 years or so. I stopped for a few reasons. I felt that drinking was becoming a regular occurrence and I didn't like that. I didn't like the disruption in my sleep. And, I knew it was a negative factor in regards to my physical goals. It helped that my social circle is comprised mainly of non drinkers so I didn't experience any pressure in that regard.

Lately, I have been thinking of trying some non-alcoholic beers, just to add some variety of flavors, in an easy to consume manner. I just drink water, sparkling water, tea and coffee now. Though every once in great while I will come across a mocktail at a restaurant that sounds intriguing enough to order.

I'm now 33 days AF and grateful for this thread.

Rivendale, I stopped for the same reasons as you -- I really started hating the sleep disruption, the frequency of drinking (which felt increasingly unhealthy in a way I couldn't exactly articulate), and it has been a negative for my physical goals, too; the empty calories inhibit weight loss, and I also find post-workout recovery is much worse when I've been drinking.

My biggest challenge is that my social circle consists of several heavy drinkers. Not sure how that's going to play out yet, but DH and I are trying to branch out and make some new friends who don't care much about alcohol. We recently joined a running group, and I love the fact that it meets every week and everyone is super chatty, but alcohol is not a part of it at all.

Echo these exact sentiments - I'm 40 now and while I have been drinking far less than in my 20's, it seems that even a "moderate" night of 3 alcohol units in an evening would leave me feeling less than amazing the next day.  Multiply this by on average 3 nights per week (because it seems like there is always some reason to drink!)  I felt like I was always either drinking or recovering and knew deep down this wasn't the pattern I wanted for my long term health. 

My husband and I have just started 6 weeks alcohol free.  It sounds like nothing, but we've attempted this about a half dozen times over the past few years and always caved after a couple weeks with a "screw this, life is more fun with beer" attitude.  Only on day 3 now, ha, so we will see how this time around goes.

There's a whole relearning process of how to reframe "fun" and "celebration" without drinking.

It takes time, and your brain will seriously gaslight you along the way to convince you that not drinking means the death of joy and fun and really, you deserve to have joy and fun, so why would you deprive yourself, right?

If you stick with it long enough though, that starts sounding insane.

What I now am able to perceive is that my brain was making fun stuff *less* fun unless I would give in and drink. For example, a dry wedding was just unbearable.

It's not that the alcohol made it fun, it's that I felt like I couldn't unlock that fun without alcohol. Now that I am a non-drinker (as opposed to being a drinker who is in the quitting process but still feels like a drinker) I don't need alcohol to unlock "fun mode" anymore. I have the exact same experience of getting hyped up at events, celebrating things, and chilling with a cool beverage on a patio in the summer, which all used to require alcohol to tap into.

Alcohol doesn't make these things more fun, it just throttles your ability to enjoy them unless you drink a specific kind of beverage.

Which really does kind of sound insane when you're not addicted to it.

And don't downplay 6 weeks. It's a lot easier to hit 2, 3, and 9 years once you've gotten to 6 weeks than it is to hit 6 weeks in the first place.

I would happily tackle the next 20 years than ever have to do the first 10 days ever again.

[JupiterGreen]

I'm 48 days into the 30-day Alcohol Experiment.  I'm grateful to this thread which I've followed for awhile, especially for pointing me in the direction of the Annie Grace website.
Coincidentally, we bumped into a wonderful alternative to red wine. It's a traditional Jamaican beverage made from brewed hibiscus.  I laughed when I saw on the label "Tastes better than wine," but damn if they aren't telling the truth!  I had a case shipped to me from Brooklyn. They also have some great mocktail recipes on their website.  I highly recommend!
https://brooklynbrewedsorrel.com/
I will add that my preferred red was Cabernet.  I would describe the Sorrel as rich, complex, and not too sweet.

Thanks for the recommendation! I’m always looking for booze free fancy drinks. I gave up drinking about 6 years ago don’t miss it at all

[2Birds1Stone]

40 days in! After consuming some form of alcohol 4-5 night a week for over a decade. It was not particularly hard, wondering if it was more of a bad habbit than an addiction at this point.

Not sure I want to abstain indefinitely, but so far it's a fun experiment and I don't have a goal im mind.

[Metalcat]

40 days in! After consuming some form of alcohol 4-5 night a week for over a decade. It was not particularly hard, wondering if it was more of a bad habbit than an addiction at this point.

Not sure I want to abstain indefinitely, but so far it's a fun experiment and I don't have a goal im mind.

People's reactions and relationship with alcohol are incredibly varied. Communities like AA like to make generalizations, but they aren't supported by anything.

There really is just a radical range of experiences.

I was recently in a debate with an AAer who insisted that because I was able to quit one day and never look back that I couldn't ever have possibly had a *real* addiction.

So yeah, there are people like you who drank regularly and don't have any struggles giving it up. Maybe you weren't at all addicted, it's very possible.

I know people who did cocaine almost every night of working in a bar and then just gave it up like it was nothing when they left the bar scene.

People are varied.

[2Birds1Stone]

That's an interesting observation about the drugs and location.

Don't recall where, but there was an interesting article I read about an phenomenon where soldiers had a very hard time beating addiction during Vietnam while they were overseas, and when they came back home, it was almost like they never tried the drug in the first place. After some analysis, it turned out that getting away from the environment that surrounded the person during their use made a bigger impact than any other factor in recovery.

Not sure if alcohol is the same, but the social pressure to drink is real and some of my former drinking friends have openly questioned our choice and have tried to peer pressure us into caving. I don't fault them for it, since the choice was very personal and they have no idea that it's not some "dry month" type thing where stakes are low for caving.

My habit was getting worse, before Covid I always felt a little weird grabbing a beer or two before dinner on a weeknight. When Covid was in full blown panic mode, everyone and their grandma started drinking or increased their alcohol consumption drastically, for many of us that increased consumption stuck around and it became much easier to just grab a beverage to deal with stress, anxiety, social situations that normally weren't based on or sometimes even involved drinking.

The biggest eye opener was when Andrew Huberman released this episode "What Alcohol Does to Your Body, Brain & Health | Huberman Lab Podcast #86" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkS1pkKpILY)

I knew drinking wasn't great for my health, but holy shit did that two hours completely change how I viewed alcohol.

Now if I have a beer or three in the future, I'm making an informed decision to poison myself for the temporary high. It's crazy how many negatives there are, it simply made me not want to drink......maybe it was so eye opening that addiction vs. habit has nothing to do with it.

[Tyson]

That's an interesting observation about the drugs and location.

Don't recall where, but there was an interesting article I read about an phenomenon where soldiers had a very hard time beating addiction during Vietnam while they were overseas, and when they came back home, it was almost like they never tried the drug in the first place. After some analysis, it turned out that getting away from the environment that surrounded the person during their use made a bigger impact than any other factor in recovery.

Not sure if alcohol is the same, but the social pressure to drink is real and some of my former drinking friends have openly questioned our choice and have tried to peer pressure us into caving. I don't fault them for it, since the choice was very personal and they have no idea that it's not some "dry month" type thing where stakes are low for caving.

My habit was getting worse, before Covid I always felt a little weird grabbing a beer or two before dinner on a weeknight. When Covid was in full blown panic mode, everyone and their grandma started drinking or increased their alcohol consumption drastically, for many of us that increased consumption stuck around and it became much easier to just grab a beverage to deal with stress, anxiety, social situations that normally weren't based on or sometimes even involved drinking.

The biggest eye opener was when Andrew Huberman released this episode "What Alcohol Does to Your Body, Brain & Health | Huberman Lab Podcast #86" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkS1pkKpILY)

I knew drinking wasn't great for my health, but holy shit did that two hours completely change how I viewed alcohol.

Now if I have a beer or three in the future, I'm making an informed decision to poison myself for the temporary high. It's crazy how many negatives there are, it simply made me not want to drink......maybe it was so eye opening that addiction vs. habit has nothing to do with it.

I agree, that episode of Huberman was excellent and firmed up my intuition - alcohol has no health benefits at all and is poison at every consumption level.

[Metalcat]

That's an interesting observation about the drugs and location.

Don't recall where, but there was an interesting article I read about an phenomenon where soldiers had a very hard time beating addiction during Vietnam while they were overseas, and when they came back home, it was almost like they never tried the drug in the first place. After some analysis, it turned out that getting away from the environment that surrounded the person during their use made a bigger impact than any other factor in recovery.

Not sure if alcohol is the same, but the social pressure to drink is real and some of my former drinking friends have openly questioned our choice and have tried to peer pressure us into caving. I don't fault them for it, since the choice was very personal and they have no idea that it's not some "dry month" type thing where stakes are low for caving.

My habit was getting worse, before Covid I always felt a little weird grabbing a beer or two before dinner on a weeknight. When Covid was in full blown panic mode, everyone and their grandma started drinking or increased their alcohol consumption drastically, for many of us that increased consumption stuck around and it became much easier to just grab a beverage to deal with stress, anxiety, social situations that normally weren't based on or sometimes even involved drinking.

The biggest eye opener was when Andrew Huberman released this episode "What Alcohol Does to Your Body, Brain & Health | Huberman Lab Podcast #86" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkS1pkKpILY)

I knew drinking wasn't great for my health, but holy shit did that two hours completely change how I viewed alcohol.

Now if I have a beer or three in the future, I'm making an informed decision to poison myself for the temporary high. It's crazy how many negatives there are, it simply made me not want to drink......maybe it was so eye opening that addiction vs. habit has nothing to do with it.

Location is *extremely* important when it comes to drugs.

The brain modulates the effect of a drug on you very aggressively. Opioid addicts are well known to often overdose when they take their usual dose in a new location.

Tolerance is very context specific. That's why I had a fairly high tolerance for red wine, especially for my favourites, but even low doses of hard liquor would fuck me up.

If you change anything about the habitual use of a substance, it changes the way it is processed in your body.

[Wolfpack Mustachian]

Well, I've been booze free for five months now.  I was never a heavy drinker (maybe a gin and tonic once a week or so), so giving it up wasn't any sort of hardship.  I can report not feeling any different than when I was drinking.  The weights I lift are all around the same numbers and the distance I ride on my bike is the same.

My suspicion is that at the levels I usually drink there really isn't any impact on my life being a regular drinker or a teetotaler.

Yeah, a drink a week isn't likely to have any notable impact on your well being, so I would be shocked if you felt any difference unless a single drink substantially impacted your sleep that one night each week, which is plausible, but obviously not your reality.

I'm always thinking of this topic in terms of how to teach my kids. What would you/anyone/the research say would be a drinking level that would have notable impact to the point of being a problem?

As mentioned before, my levels (a drink or two at one time maybe every 3 months or so) is, to me at least, clearly not a problem. I'm curious, though, what is an approximate threshold...or, is it too specific to the individual to say at all.

[2Birds1Stone]

@Wolfpack Mustachian, if you have/plan to give the Huberman episode a listen he goes into amounts/frequency a bit.

Probably varies individual to individual, as some of the impacts can have negative effects even with sporadic but regular drinking. For example, if someone averages <1 alcoholic unit per day, but has 2-3 units, 2-3 times per week, the resulting disruption to sleep, gut microbiome, etc etc is not insignificant. 2-3 units, 4 times a year? Probably a lot less likely to have long term negative impacts.

In my experience, moderation can be a slippery slope. Not specific to alcohol, but I've often found myself "gaming" my own systems. This is such a fascinating area of human behavior, psychology, and even physiology.

[Wolfpack Mustachian]

@Wolfpack Mustachian, if you have/plan to give the Huberman episode a listen he goes into amounts/frequency a bit.

Probably varies individual to individual, as some of the impacts can have negative effects even with sporadic but regular drinking. For example, if someone averages <1 alcoholic unit per day, but has 2-3 units, 2-3 times per week, the resulting disruption to sleep, gut microbiome, etc etc is not insignificant. 2-3 units, 4 times a year? Probably a lot less likely to have long term negative impacts.

In my experience, moderation can be a slippery slope. Not specific to alcohol, but I've often found myself "gaming" my own systems. This is such a fascinating area of human behavior, psychology, and even physiology.

Thank you for the advice! It really is, and it's very interesting from an intersection of behavior, psychology, predisposition, etc.. I would say that I very much have an addictive personality. I can see it from sugars, as Guitarstv said and other things. That being said, I've never had a problem with this with alcohol, and I can't notice anything where it really affects my health negatively when I drink unless it's two drinks with a high alcohol content very close together.

[BikeFanatic]

I did have Fre champagne maybe 1.5 years ago and I loved it at the time. It did cost a fortune though.
I used to Love the athletic brew upside dawn, taste like a beer to me, very high quality. These days I barely drink non alcoholic beer due to my diet, and I worry that it was a crutch.
There was an IPA called well-being and they come in 16 ounce cans 4 pack. From Missouri I think, anyway 100 calories but taste like a foamy, bitter, yeasty, ipa. No alcohol.

[Metalcat]

Well, I've been booze free for five months now.  I was never a heavy drinker (maybe a gin and tonic once a week or so), so giving it up wasn't any sort of hardship.  I can report not feeling any different than when I was drinking.  The weights I lift are all around the same numbers and the distance I ride on my bike is the same.

My suspicion is that at the levels I usually drink there really isn't any impact on my life being a regular drinker or a teetotaler.

Yeah, a drink a week isn't likely to have any notable impact on your well being, so I would be shocked if you felt any difference unless a single drink substantially impacted your sleep that one night each week, which is plausible, but obviously not your reality.

I'm always thinking of this topic in terms of how to teach my kids. What would you/anyone/the research say would be a drinking level that would have notable impact to the point of being a problem?

As mentioned before, my levels (a drink or two at one time maybe every 3 months or so) is, to me at least, clearly not a problem. I'm curious, though, what is an approximate threshold...or, is it too specific to the individual to say at all.

There is no safe level of alcohol consumption.

People should choose to consume it with that awareness. I would focus on teaching kids that society will tell them over and over that alcohol is safe and normal, but that it really isn't.

If they want to consume it, that's their choice, but to know that there is no "safe" level even if everyone acts like there is.

[wenchsenior]

Well, I've been booze free for five months now.  I was never a heavy drinker (maybe a gin and tonic once a week or so), so giving it up wasn't any sort of hardship.  I can report not feeling any different than when I was drinking.  The weights I lift are all around the same numbers and the distance I ride on my bike is the same.

My suspicion is that at the levels I usually drink there really isn't any impact on my life being a regular drinker or a teetotaler.

Yeah, a drink a week isn't likely to have any notable impact on your well being, so I would be shocked if you felt any difference unless a single drink substantially impacted your sleep that one night each week, which is plausible, but obviously not your reality.

I'm always thinking of this topic in terms of how to teach my kids. What would you/anyone/the research say would be a drinking level that would have notable impact to the point of being a problem?

As mentioned before, my levels (a drink or two at one time maybe every 3 months or so) is, to me at least, clearly not a problem. I'm curious, though, what is an approximate threshold...or, is it too specific to the individual to say at all.

There is no safe level of alcohol consumption.

People should choose to consume it with that awareness. I would focus on teaching kids that society will tell them over and over that alcohol is safe and normal, but that it really isn't.

If they want to consume it, that's their choice, but to know that there is no "safe" level even if everyone acts like there is.

This is also the conclusion I came to.

When I took the short academic course on the neurophysiology of addiction, it was super eye opening to discover that neurophysiologists have a 'pyramid' of substances/stimuli where they divide them into different classes in terms of their parameters that affect their potential for addictiveness.

There were 5 or 6 levels to the pyramid. Nicotine and opioids were classed as most addictive. Alcohol was in the second tier, but notably along with amphetamines and crack/cocaine.

And yet society actively encourages and celebrates alcohol use.  Which is pretty insane, knowing what I know now.

[kiwigirls]

PTF

[Metalcat]

Well, I've been booze free for five months now.  I was never a heavy drinker (maybe a gin and tonic once a week or so), so giving it up wasn't any sort of hardship.  I can report not feeling any different than when I was drinking.  The weights I lift are all around the same numbers and the distance I ride on my bike is the same.

My suspicion is that at the levels I usually drink there really isn't any impact on my life being a regular drinker or a teetotaler.

Yeah, a drink a week isn't likely to have any notable impact on your well being, so I would be shocked if you felt any difference unless a single drink substantially impacted your sleep that one night each week, which is plausible, but obviously not your reality.

I'm always thinking of this topic in terms of how to teach my kids. What would you/anyone/the research say would be a drinking level that would have notable impact to the point of being a problem?

As mentioned before, my levels (a drink or two at one time maybe every 3 months or so) is, to me at least, clearly not a problem. I'm curious, though, what is an approximate threshold...or, is it too specific to the individual to say at all.

There is no safe level of alcohol consumption.

People should choose to consume it with that awareness. I would focus on teaching kids that society will tell them over and over that alcohol is safe and normal, but that it really isn't.

If they want to consume it, that's their choice, but to know that there is no "safe" level even if everyone acts like there is.

This is also the conclusion I came to.

When I took the short academic course on the neurophysiology of addiction, it was super eye opening to discover that neurophysiologists have a 'pyramid' of substances/stimuli where they divide them into different classes in terms of their parameters that affect their potential for addictiveness.

There were 5 or 6 levels to the pyramid. Nicotine and opioids were classed as most addictive. Alcohol was in the second tier, but notably along with amphetamines and crack/cocaine.

And yet society actively encourages and celebrates alcohol use.  Which is pretty insane, knowing what I know now.

Yep, my most recent neuroscience textbook was pretty brutally harsh on the cultural acceptance of alcohol and essentially said there's no justifiable reason to separate alcohol from cocaine or meth.

I've done an enormous amount of learning about cocaine addiction after living with an addict, and in reading about both alcohol and cocaine addiction, I have to say, I really don't perceive an appreciable difference either.

And yet most parents would die before letting their teen have a bump on a special occasion, but many won't blink at letting them have a little glass of wine, despite it also being illegal.

[Wolfpack Mustachian]

Well, I've been booze free for five months now.  I was never a heavy drinker (maybe a gin and tonic once a week or so), so giving it up wasn't any sort of hardship.  I can report not feeling any different than when I was drinking.  The weights I lift are all around the same numbers and the distance I ride on my bike is the same.

My suspicion is that at the levels I usually drink there really isn't any impact on my life being a regular drinker or a teetotaler.

Yeah, a drink a week isn't likely to have any notable impact on your well being, so I would be shocked if you felt any difference unless a single drink substantially impacted your sleep that one night each week, which is plausible, but obviously not your reality.

I'm always thinking of this topic in terms of how to teach my kids. What would you/anyone/the research say would be a drinking level that would have notable impact to the point of being a problem?

As mentioned before, my levels (a drink or two at one time maybe every 3 months or so) is, to me at least, clearly not a problem. I'm curious, though, what is an approximate threshold...or, is it too specific to the individual to say at all.

There is no safe level of alcohol consumption.

People should choose to consume it with that awareness. I would focus on teaching kids that society will tell them over and over that alcohol is safe and normal, but that it really isn't.

If they want to consume it, that's their choice, but to know that there is no "safe" level even if everyone acts like there is.

Very interesting way of framing it. I'm considering it overall, but it is also, of course, framed within my upbringing and experiences. I was brought up to see alcohol consumption in moderation was not a problem - and I truly mean in moderation, none of my family or people I was close to were ever drunk that I can remember, not even once but were not teetotalers. All of that was set within a framework of an overall society I was raised in where a high percentage of people had religious beliefs that they took seriously that any alcohol at all was morally indefensible and a very, very big deal. I grew up feeling strongly against that perspective because I had first hand experience that the universal condemnation of alcohol as supremely dangerous simply wasn't true.

All that to be said, I struggle internally about it. I know that I would be much more strongly against my kids ever smoking a cigarette than taking a drink of alcohol, but perhaps that is a perspective not proved out by the data. All in all, the perspective of acknowledging that no alcohol is safe is probably a good start. That being said, I would also feel hypocritical saying that while still drinking, even occasionally and in small amounts. Anyways, thanks for listening to me ramble :-).

[GuitarStv]

Well, I've been booze free for five months now.  I was never a heavy drinker (maybe a gin and tonic once a week or so), so giving it up wasn't any sort of hardship.  I can report not feeling any different than when I was drinking.  The weights I lift are all around the same numbers and the distance I ride on my bike is the same.

My suspicion is that at the levels I usually drink there really isn't any impact on my life being a regular drinker or a teetotaler.

Yeah, a drink a week isn't likely to have any notable impact on your well being, so I would be shocked if you felt any difference unless a single drink substantially impacted your sleep that one night each week, which is plausible, but obviously not your reality.

I'm always thinking of this topic in terms of how to teach my kids. What would you/anyone/the research say would be a drinking level that would have notable impact to the point of being a problem?

As mentioned before, my levels (a drink or two at one time maybe every 3 months or so) is, to me at least, clearly not a problem. I'm curious, though, what is an approximate threshold...or, is it too specific to the individual to say at all.

There is no safe level of alcohol consumption.

People should choose to consume it with that awareness. I would focus on teaching kids that society will tell them over and over that alcohol is safe and normal, but that it really isn't.

If they want to consume it, that's their choice, but to know that there is no "safe" level even if everyone acts like there is.

Very interesting way of framing it. I'm considering it overall, but it is also, of course, framed within my upbringing and experiences. I was brought up to see alcohol consumption in moderation was not a problem - and I truly mean in moderation, none of my family or people I was close to were ever drunk that I can remember, not even once but were not teetotalers. All of that was set within a framework of an overall society I was raised in where a high percentage of people had religious beliefs that they took seriously that any alcohol at all was morally indefensible and a very, very big deal. I grew up feeling strongly against that perspective because I had first hand experience that the universal condemnation of alcohol as supremely dangerous simply wasn't true.

All that to be said, I struggle internally about it. I know that I would be much more strongly against my kids ever smoking a cigarette than taking a drink of alcohol, but perhaps that is a perspective not proved out by the data. All in all, the perspective of acknowledging that no alcohol is safe is probably a good start. That being said, I would also feel hypocritical saying that while still drinking, even occasionally and in small amounts. Anyways, thanks for listening to me ramble :-).

Everything that I've ever read indicates that smoking is much worse for your body than drinking, so I think it makes more sense that you would be more strongly against your kids smoking.  There might not be a safe level of alcohol consumption, but there's a bit of a gap between 'not safe' and 'dangerous'.

You probably do plenty of things that are not safe, but are fine in moderation:
- feeling the sun on your skin without chemical sunblock
- eating chocolate cake
- listening to loud music
- staying up late at night because you're interested in something

There is a certain balance that you need to determine is right for you between the danger of an activity and the pleasure you derive from it.

[Metalcat]

Well, I've been booze free for five months now.  I was never a heavy drinker (maybe a gin and tonic once a week or so), so giving it up wasn't any sort of hardship.  I can report not feeling any different than when I was drinking.  The weights I lift are all around the same numbers and the distance I ride on my bike is the same.

My suspicion is that at the levels I usually drink there really isn't any impact on my life being a regular drinker or a teetotaler.

Yeah, a drink a week isn't likely to have any notable impact on your well being, so I would be shocked if you felt any difference unless a single drink substantially impacted your sleep that one night each week, which is plausible, but obviously not your reality.

I'm always thinking of this topic in terms of how to teach my kids. What would you/anyone/the research say would be a drinking level that would have notable impact to the point of being a problem?

As mentioned before, my levels (a drink or two at one time maybe every 3 months or so) is, to me at least, clearly not a problem. I'm curious, though, what is an approximate threshold...or, is it too specific to the individual to say at all.

There is no safe level of alcohol consumption.

People should choose to consume it with that awareness. I would focus on teaching kids that society will tell them over and over that alcohol is safe and normal, but that it really isn't.

If they want to consume it, that's their choice, but to know that there is no "safe" level even if everyone acts like there is.

Very interesting way of framing it. I'm considering it overall, but it is also, of course, framed within my upbringing and experiences. I was brought up to see alcohol consumption in moderation was not a problem - and I truly mean in moderation, none of my family or people I was close to were ever drunk that I can remember, not even once but were not teetotalers. All of that was set within a framework of an overall society I was raised in where a high percentage of people had religious beliefs that they took seriously that any alcohol at all was morally indefensible and a very, very big deal. I grew up feeling strongly against that perspective because I had first hand experience that the universal condemnation of alcohol as supremely dangerous simply wasn't true.

All that to be said, I struggle internally about it. I know that I would be much more strongly against my kids ever smoking a cigarette than taking a drink of alcohol, but perhaps that is a perspective not proved out by the data. All in all, the perspective of acknowledging that no alcohol is safe is probably a good start. That being said, I would also feel hypocritical saying that while still drinking, even occasionally and in small amounts. Anyways, thanks for listening to me ramble :-).

The point is not that you should tell them never to drink, the point is that you should honestly inform them that regardless of what social messaging they get, that it's not benign.

Many things aren't benign. That doesn't mean they all need to be subjected to strict prohibition.

Here's my best advice when it comes to kids: don't aim to control their behaviour, just give them the tools to be able to make the best decisions for themselves.

Society is going to hammer into them that vaping and drinking are cool, it's your job to illuminate them to the scam. The same way it's your job to illuminate them to the scam of consumerism.

It's not like there's some limit to the wisdom you can share with your kids.

[SnipTheDog]

In since 2005.

[Wolfpack Mustachian]

Thanks Malcat and GuitarStv for the advice!

[sjlp]

In since 2005.

Nice! Thanks for sharing.

I am checking in to note that I am more than 18 months in, and still very happy. Have now been through many holidays, birthdays, anniversaries, work travel, concerts, dinners out, vacations.... Everything is better this way. Moreover, I just get so much done -- working, cooking, exercising, spending quality time with friends and family. I feel like I have found this amazing life hack! One of the biggest surprises continues to be how little other people care, even in my rather boozy circle of friends and acquaintances.

Though I did have a sip of alcohol on two occasions, with different results. While staying at a small B&B in another country, the owner took all the guests out for the day and at the end hosted us in the garden. He passed out shots of some homemade alcohol. I just drank it for politeness/camaraderie. It was gross, I felt gross afterwards, and nothing was triggered. However, I have never liked hard alcohol that much so I'm not too surprised.

In contrast, I went on a wine tour where they drove us to a pretty lookout point on a vineyard for a tasting. I had been on several other wine tours/events previously, and simple didn't drink anything and enjoyed the company/scenery. Before I could decline, the guide poured a taster. I took a sip and there was definitely a split second of 'Oh wouldn't it be nice to just drink this all afternoon and sit and watch the sunset.' Then I was like, 'Nah, I have better things to do with my life' and didn't have any more. This was interesting and informative, that the pathway still existed.

I think if this happened again, I would remind myself the guide and my group don't really care what I do, and just not have any. Maybe it would have been better to let the tour know in advance or to bring my own NA drink. And, perhaps I should try a little harder to suggest events that are not alcohol-centered, particularly if they remind me of my past self. Though I'm not totally sure about the last point, as I have taken pride in being able to very comfortably go to beer gardens, wineries, cocktail hour etc. when my social circle wants to do that.

[sonofsven]

In since 2005.

Nice! Thanks for sharing.

I am checking in to note that I am more than 18 months in, and still very happy. Have now been through many holidays, birthdays, anniversaries, work travel, concerts, dinners out, vacations.... Everything is better this way. Moreover, I just get so much done -- working, cooking, exercising, spending quality time with friends and family. I feel like I have found this amazing life hack! One of the biggest surprises continues to be how little other people care, even in my rather boozy circle of friends and acquaintances.

Though I did have a sip of alcohol on two occasions, with different results. While staying at a small B&B in another country, the owner took all the guests out for the day and at the end hosted us in the garden. He passed out shots of some homemade alcohol. I just drank it for politeness/camaraderie. It was gross, I felt gross afterwards, and nothing was triggered. However, I have never liked hard alcohol that much so I'm not too surprised.

In contrast, I went on a wine tour where they drove us to a pretty lookout point on a vineyard for a tasting. I had been on several other wine tours/events previously, and simple didn't drink anything and enjoyed the company/scenery. Before I could decline, the guide poured a taster. I took a sip and there was definitely a split second of 'Oh wouldn't it be nice to just drink this all afternoon and sit and watch the sunset.' Then I was like, 'Nah, I have better things to do with my life' and didn't have any more. This was interesting and informative, that the pathway still existed.

I think if this happened again, I would remind myself the guide and my group don't really care what I do, and just not have any. Maybe it would have been better to let the tour know in advance or to bring my own NA drink. And, perhaps I should try a little harder to suggest events that are not alcohol-centered, particularly if they remind me of my past self. Though I'm not totally sure about the last point, as I have taken pride in being able to very comfortably go to beer gardens, wineries, cocktail hour etc. when my social circle wants to do that.

I just say a quick and pleasant "no thanks" and that's it, no further discussion needed. I struggled a bit in my first years going to bars and other events where I was in close contact with drinking, but honestly it was more just being annoyed watching people getting drunk than feeling an urge to drink myself. Maybe the realization that I used to be annoying too when I was getting tipsy? I quit in 2010 so it's not an issue anymore, but I don't spend much time with people that drink heavily, and my partner is a very light drinker.
I was just at a bar two weeks ago for a birthday; I ordered tea. Nobody cares.

[OurTown]

Hi everyone.  Sober since 2016.  Good luck to everyone on their journey!

I'm with Malcat on AA ambivalence.  When I tried a few meetings, it felt like a cult. If I wanted a cult I would join up with Scientology. If others had a better experience with AA that's great for them, but don't feel like AA is the only game in town.  To me, AA is the Dave Ramsey of addiction recovery:  heavy on the religion, light on the science.

I had to experience a real rock-bottom crash before I finally wised up and quit.  For those folks seeking help and guidance, there is an REBT based addiction recovery program out on the internet called smartrecovery.org.  It was still in chat-room format when I did it (ha!), now it is zoom meetings. I became a big fan of REBT / CBT / Stoicism after I got my sh!t together.   

[Frugal Lizard]

The upside of me not drinking is my spouse is rarely consuming. And he is loosing weight. If I could leave off a little belly fat would be a bonus. Our household booze spending used to be around 100Can$ a month. It is still around 25$ a month as we do still bring wine when invited for a meal.